Based Camp - Updating Our View On Gay： Is It A Kink？

00:00:00.000 hello simone i'm excited to be here with you today today we are going to be discussing my

00:00:04.960 evolving views on the way that at least within our family but not just within our family but

00:00:12.720 i think society at large is going to move in this direction we'll think about same-sex attraction in

00:00:18.080 the future and you as an audience so if you if you know me historically i've always been very

00:00:25.040 sort of pro-gay right like you know they should be able to get married the way they want they

00:00:29.120 should be able to live life the way they want and while i still think a lot of that the qualifications

00:00:37.680 i have around that have adapted pretty heavily and you as an audience are going to get to see

00:00:43.840 something very fun which is people ask how come you and simone always have like such similar beliefs

00:00:48.320 about things or thoughts about things and it's because whenever one of us has like an update in

00:00:52.720 our belief system we share it with the other one to try to convince them get pushback and then we sort

00:00:58.880 of arrive at whatever the the convergent okay this is the new way of thinking about this yeah and

00:01:04.560 it's often a moderated or or even totally new version of the idea it's not it's not always like

00:01:11.360 melton wins yeah without moderation yeah so i'll sort of describe my thought journey as to how i got here

00:01:19.040 and part of this i've been talking to you about already so what i talked to you about already

00:01:23.200 it was me trying to think through why we categorize same-sex attraction as significantly different

00:01:31.360 from any other arousal pattern kink as you would call it that is not meant to help us reproduce because

00:01:40.000 you know presumably the reason why arousal evolved was to ensure that we had procreation and had

00:01:48.400 children and we also argue that parts of the arousal system were adopted for other things

00:01:54.160 that are related to survival so across mammal species not just in humans you see the submission

00:02:00.320 and dominant system co-opting arousal patterns to motivate it you know interestingly where you where

00:02:06.880 i find one of my favorite examples of this is in most species animals mammals like social mammals will

00:02:14.320 take on the position a female of that species would to be mounted in order to show submission to somebody 1.00

00:02:22.480 so you will even see males do this and females to show submission to the part not to their partner

00:02:28.640 but to another person in their tribe or something like that what's really fascinating is in species

00:02:33.840 where females are dominant like the spotted hyena the way to show submission is through an erection um 0.99

00:02:42.720 and in spotted the way the females show dominance is through an erection isn't that no it's how they 1.00

00:02:48.400 show submission what oh gosh okay i knew they had pseudopenises so so what she was thinking of is the

00:02:58.160 the females of the spotted hyena actually have pseudopenises in order to show this this trait and so

00:03:04.720 because it's a species with with dominant females the way that you show that you are submissive is to take

00:03:10.880 on the role a male would take on right before sex when in species where males are typically dominant

00:03:16.000 you take on the role that all right the reason i go into all of this is i'm pointing out that the

00:03:20.320 arousal system is used for things other than just to motivate procreation and that this might explain

00:03:26.800 some of the kinks that humans have perhaps even same-sex attraction although i think it is less likely

00:03:33.200 that that motivates same-sex attraction and we can get into what might cause same-sex attraction a number of

00:03:37.120 potential things but with this being the case there are now two broad definitions i could go for in my

00:03:44.880 head that i think are good ways to divide sort of arousal patterns arousal patterns that are serving

00:03:50.080 their intended function versus arousal patterns that are not serving their intended function and here you

00:03:55.120 may say well because arousal patterns are co-opted throughout social mammals for dominance and submission

00:04:00.400 displays then bdsm is less of a kink than same-sex attraction because this is just completely not

00:04:07.440 useful for for survival and this one is however i don't think that that's necessarily a good way of

00:04:12.400 doing division i would go on and say that probably in my head the way that i would divide it is arousal

00:04:18.640 patterns that are tied to reproduction and arousal patterns that are not tied to reproduction and then

00:04:23.440 you can say okay well but same-sex attraction is totally different from any other kink 0.99

00:04:33.120 it's you being attracted to who a person is fundamentally right and it's something that you

00:04:40.160 are you know you have at a young age and you can't easily change about yourself and here i would ask you

00:04:45.360 to go to ayla has a great study on this i'll put the graph on screen if i can find it where she goes over

00:04:50.480 the average age that kinks first appear and actually for a wide swath of kinks they appear 0.89

00:04:56.640 before same-sex attraction does and not only that but if you look at studies on this they typically only

00:05:04.080 look at things like bdsm and stuff like this but if you look at user reports of the persistency of kinks 0.67

00:05:09.200 it appears that the persistency of kinks is at around the same level as the persistency of same-sex

00:05:14.880 attraction maybe slightly less for some specific kicks like the dominance and the dominance of

00:05:21.360 submission ones and i would also note here that same-sex attraction is not something that you

00:05:25.840 necessarily have throughout your entire life if you look at people who go on tuberty hormones like

00:05:31.040 sex changing hormones like trans people do you're looking at a 20 to 40 change their gender of primary 1.00

00:05:36.000 attraction and we also know of we've done an episode on this the parasites that can change the gender that 0.95

00:05:40.720 you are predominantly attracted to with things like toxoplasmosis being more likely to make you buy

00:05:47.040 in order to help itself spread and this is a number of studies have have like like peer-reviewed studies

00:05:52.800 have shown this obviously this is this is all very offensive territory we're getting in here but the

00:05:57.680 reason i started to go through all this is is i was like okay all of these things but there is one core

00:06:04.000 area where same-sex attraction and this is sort of where i had stopped on this before and sort of been like i

00:06:10.080 guess our existing societal norms are good there is one area where which is to say if you live in a

00:06:15.600 society where you're like hey and this is broadly the rule we have in our society and it's a rule that

00:06:22.400 like i'm okay with like as a social rule as long as you don't involve me in your kinks right like your 0.87

00:06:28.800 unique arousal pathways without my consent like i didn't go into a space where i knew that people were

00:06:32.960 going to be doing this or i didn't you know you didn't you didn't force me to participate in some

00:06:37.680 fantasy you have or something like that where i'm okay with that right um yeah so the problem with

00:06:43.680 same-sex attraction and taking that is that then then how do these people get married right like if

00:06:50.320 if a bdsm person doesn't need to have a marriage in bdsm outfits to get married but there is no way a 0.98

00:06:59.600 same-sex attracted couple can get married without it very obviously being a same-sex attracted couple on that stage

00:07:06.400 and so i started thinking about that and i was like okay i can see that and i can see why because

00:07:12.800 you don't have any other kink like that there's no other kink that is societally accepted i suppose

00:07:18.000 if you were like a pda file it would be very obvious if you tried to marry the person but that's with

00:07:22.720 a non-consenting individual if you were a a beastie bestiality person and you decided to get married to

00:07:29.360 a horse or a dog it would be very obvious but socially we don't condone that and no i've always found the 0.99

00:07:35.200 reason we don't socially condone that incredibly stupid which is that these animals can't consent 0.99

00:07:40.720 and it's like you eat animals like that like you farm animals like that you eat veal where you torture 1.00

00:07:49.680 a baby cow like what are you what are you talking about these animals can't consent your dog is 0.97

00:07:56.240 something that you bought and then it is normal for you to breed it and sell its offspring

00:08:03.040 oh what are you when you put it that way golly no i i i think the reason why you shouldn't have

00:08:10.800 sex with animals is the same reason that almost every culture on earth has a taboo against this

00:08:15.520 or many do is that it spreads diseases and diseases are bad for populations and so having

00:08:21.840 prohibitions against it is good to prevent the spread of diseases and then people can be like

00:08:26.400 well does it same-sex relationships spread diseases which we'll get to but i mean historically it was

00:08:31.520 true i mean look at the aids epidemic the moment it became normalized a lot of people suffered and

00:08:36.240 died as a result of its normalization of diseases that didn't spread in other populations

00:08:42.000 and if you look at our parasite video we we go over a number of uh or some evidence that there might

00:08:48.240 be some unknown pathogens which could be motivating this behavior specifically we see different gut

00:08:53.920 microbiomes in same-sex attracted people who participate in just different gut microbiomes now i'll note here

00:09:00.160 it's not just gays or the kink that we would call gayness was this new taxonomy that changes sexual

00:09:06.640 behavior we noted in that episode having certain types of a yeast infection will make a woman more 1.00

00:09:12.240 turned on by being eaten out because that's how the infection spreads or that it appears that cucking

00:09:19.440 behavior it really interesting one of the guys who listened to this was a prison guard and he was like

00:09:25.600 oh yeah it's true you know first you're the pitcher then you're the catcher that's what everyone says

00:09:30.960 that that cucking behavior is literally like a honey pot for bulls that can then make them want to

00:09:36.960 cuck if you want to learn more about this watch that episode or we go into the science in detail

00:09:40.800 which just blew my mind i guess is what i'd say i would still i think the aids epidemic really spread

00:09:46.400 well before same-sex same-sex um the aids epidemic would not have spread if same-sex attraction had 0.95

00:09:55.680 not been normalized to the extent that it was it wasn't fully normalized in society like it wasn't

00:10:00.160 totally cool by no means but it was at the beginning of gay culture like the moment in mass was in major 0.93

00:10:08.240 cities i won't say the moment i'm going to say like within 20 years of like gay people beginning to in in 0.99

00:10:14.800 any sort of really large capacity participate in gay culture is when the aids epidemic started

00:10:21.920 and uh i i mean are you denying that that is what facilitated both the incubation and spread

00:10:29.920 obviously drug use helped as well but yeah i think it was probably more a matter of drug use and

00:10:37.760 more social mobility like more travel in between cities than it than it was a product of the normalization

00:10:44.320 you think the gays helped to travel between cities and then drug use helped it spread within cities 0.99

00:10:48.320 no no i think that there was more travel that took place like internationally in between cities than

00:10:54.880 ever before i mean i know for a fact like everyone knows for a fact well no i i agree with that but i

00:11:00.000 if you had had the travel and you had had the drug use but you didn't have gay normalization 0.99

00:11:05.840 or gay communities the aids epidemic wouldn't have been an epidemic i think maybe if it were still actively 0.71

00:11:12.240 illegal i mean it still was in many places at that time yeah yeah but it's just that you had wide

00:11:17.600 culture and i want to point out here because i think that this is a really hard pill to swallow

00:11:21.120 but it is an accurate and realistic pill is when people talk about the shaming that same-sex attracted

00:11:28.000 people got historically for acting on their arousal patterns and keep in mind there's a big difference

00:11:34.080 between saying like the shaming somebody got for having an arousal pattern that's just the way you're

00:11:39.280 born and acting on an arousal pattern there's many arousal patterns we shame people today for

00:11:43.840 acting on because they lead to negative externalities when acted upon but the you could be like oh it's so

00:11:49.280 horrible that they were shamed for this historically that they were you know perhaps even subject to

00:11:54.480 physical violence if they did that too overtly but then you consider that the fear that this created in

00:12:01.520 the same-sex attracted community that led them to not act in mass on these behaviors meant that something

00:12:09.440 like the aids epidemic did not start in many ways that bigotry was the gates that were holding back the

00:12:17.920 flood of the horror of the aids epidemic and in a way it was through that gating behavior that the bigots

00:12:28.480 were preventing the mass exposure and death of many same-sex attracted people to aids and as that died

00:12:36.960 down that allowed for something like aids to evolve almost as soon as a proto version of this community

00:12:43.680 was normalized and this behavior was being done in mass and in large amounts obviously that's not

00:12:49.120 relevant today and that would not be a good reason to be against same-sex attraction being acted on today

00:12:56.480 but it does matter in a historic context when you're contextualizing was this bigotry wholly a negative

00:13:02.880 thing the point i'm making is there were reasons historically to ban this and today most of the the

00:13:09.600 diseases potentially that are transmitted by same-sex attraction are pretty much under control at this

00:13:16.240 point yeah and so you know i i don't see it as as much of an issue in in that regard now we don't know

00:13:23.520 how under control they are as i've said you can look at our parasite video on this and so it could

00:13:28.320 be that there's there's some pathogens that we just aren't investigating because they are long-term

00:13:33.600 pathogens and and there is a little bit of evidence for this but it's not like super strong outside of

00:13:39.840 like well it is actually super strong because toxicplasmosis is much more common in men than women 0.91

00:13:45.520 and it in it looks like it's beginning to be transferable for males to males and within some strains

00:13:50.960 which is interesting because it's not all strains it's one strain seems to be specialized in human

00:13:54.320 transmission now and you could really only get this when you consider that women own cats more 0.99

00:13:59.440 than men do if it was transferring for some alternate pathway but anyway so that's sort of

00:14:05.200 where i ended up which is just like well it's needlessly cool to have one unusual arousal pattern

00:14:11.760 that for whatever reason can't live out their life that way right and and of course we've said

00:14:16.800 historically we don't think people should be shamed for if they are same-sex attracted to deciding to

00:14:21.200 live as heterosexual people like that's that's an okay thing to do okay yeah because this came out of

00:14:28.000 nowhere we didn't even talk about this this morning instantly you want to do a podcast on this i'm so

00:14:32.080 curious so i had this thought experiment in my head and this this is where it really got to me

00:14:37.360 okay if you look at the urban monoculture and the way that it's begun to recategorize the concept of

00:14:44.960 gender right and note here i'm not saying i agree with this recategorization of the concept of gender

00:14:49.920 but this is the concept of gender in the way it is contextualized by the dominant culture

00:14:54.320 in the west right now yeah gender is no longer something that you are born with right gender is

00:15:02.400 something that you can choose or not i mean they wouldn't say you choose it it's more like it

00:15:07.680 fluctuates with that throughout your life based on your personality and proclivities within any

00:15:13.120 particular moment how you find now honestly and it can be one of you know many different gender

00:15:20.480 labels right like one of probably like 35 or 40 or something like that it depends on the table you're

00:15:25.120 using but it's this huge thing and when you take this perspective of gender many of the things that

00:15:32.000 could have been used historically to say being gay wasn't just a kink i.e well you're attracted to

00:15:38.080 something that is durably persistent throughout the person's life and i'd point out if you're talking about

00:15:42.800 like well it's attraction to like who they are i'm like how is that different from like somebody

00:15:46.640 who likes like really muscular women or somebody who likes you know really tall women or somebody 0.98

00:15:53.520 who likes you know obese people or you know and all of which we would consider kinks we may even 1.00

00:15:58.640 consider you know really liking a slutty person to kink or really liking a nerdy person to kink or 0.69

00:16:03.840 really liking a you know we would consider all of these things kinks but the point i'm making here is 0.67

00:16:08.960 even whiz all of that you could be like yeah but gender is just like a more innate thing in terms of 0.93

00:16:14.000 who you are right like it just doesn't easily change but now you're in a different position

00:16:18.880 which is that gender actually does change throughout your life and it changes based on the way you feel

00:16:24.320 about yourself so i decided to i was talking to an ai about this and it was like well same sex attraction

00:16:31.520 is different from a kink because same sex attraction is normal and i was like wait a second same 0.50

00:16:37.680 sex attraction is actually way less frequent than a large number of kinks and hold on i'll actually 1.00

00:16:44.800 pull up i i love how it responded to that when i was trying to think through this okay so it says

00:16:51.120 globally surveys estimate three to seven percent of people identify as primarily attracted to the same

00:16:56.320 sex and then it said okay let's compare that to foot fetishes fetishes it found one study found

00:17:01.680 18 percent of heterosexual men have it so okay three to seven percent to 18 percent way higher than like

00:17:10.240 the highest rates i've seen for for same-sex attraction bdsm and note i'm saying same-sex attraction

00:17:14.960 specifically you're not all lgbt the identities bdsm is 10 to 15 again way more common than same-sex

00:17:21.920 attraction and then despite it giving examples that were literally orders more common than same-sex

00:17:29.600 attraction he said so is same-sex attraction less prevalent not really it's on par or higher with

00:17:35.920 many individuals and i'm like but the numbers gave was an order of magnitude more common yeah there's

00:17:43.440 got to be something hard-coded there because you've pointed out in in your other ai research that

00:17:48.080 these chains like when you're chatting with an ai it references the entire chain even if you're

00:17:54.080 asking one question within it said that within the same model response that's so strange again it has

00:18:02.480 to be hard-coded it has to be which yeah this was grok right it was grok though grok is a more based

00:18:08.880 one yeah recently grok has been super woke they did an update with this new thing like a week and a half

00:18:13.200 ago and i've had trouble even having basic discussions with it like it's so woke that i

00:18:19.200 asked it about our one civilization theory and it responded with an explanation that didn't really

00:18:25.520 include other civilizations like china and stuff like that and i'm like yeah but does he argue at

00:18:30.400 any point in the theory that those were not like real civilizations or that those civilizations

00:18:36.560 accomplishments when matched for the the position on the timeline were pretty paltry in comparison to the

00:18:41.680 one civilization and it was like this is by the way for context the malcolm's one civilization

00:18:47.360 theory is one in which he argues that basically there's only really been one meaningful

00:18:51.840 civilization contributing to innovation and the advancement of inter-inter-civilizational

00:18:57.920 handover innovation so some other civilizations hit sort of like plateaus but they didn't do a good

00:19:03.440 job of intergenerationally handing over culture to the next civilizational successor it's a very

00:19:08.560 offensive theory it's called there was only ever rome theory go check it out if you want it's

00:19:13.280 probably one of our best video but i think this one's going to be one of our good ones too it's a

00:19:16.320 little misleading though because it started with greece you argued right no i argued it started with

00:19:21.120 egypt then it went to egypt then it went to greece then it went to rome then it went to byzantium then it

00:19:28.080 went to the islamic republic then it went to europe then it went to england then it was right around the

00:19:33.360 world but anyway to to skip the one civilization theory what the point i was making is it was

00:19:40.560 incapable of seeing simone and you remember the transcript of that i had argued that the other

00:19:47.440 civilizations were not particularly impressive and it kept arguing that no actually i had made

00:19:51.200 the argument i had used other civilizations like china to show that this could happen in multiple

00:19:56.240 places at once and i was like no i didn't like and i even like asked it like four times like are you

00:20:01.840 sure read it again like are you sure i said that so so it couldn't even see me as saying something

00:20:10.400 offensive which i love but anyway so i'm gonna continue going here with the way that this sort

00:20:14.560 of breaks out so i started thinking okay given this let's imagine a hypothetical other world right

00:20:23.920 and in this world you have attraction to gender which can be along this you know giant gender spectrum 0.86

00:20:30.160 that they have now in the urban monoculture sure and you can have attraction to furries furries are

00:20:37.040 completely normal in this world and like gender when somebody chooses the fursona they might switch

00:20:42.800 between a few but in most people it's pretty persistent they they choose a persona based on

00:20:48.320 how it reflects in the same way that like when you're choosing from a large number of sort of gender

00:20:52.400 profiles how it reflects the way that they see some sort of inner core of who they are and individuals

00:20:58.240 within the furry community have attraction to specific species of fursona right and so then i

00:21:05.440 started thinking to myself okay so from a first principles perspective in that world right and in

00:21:11.280 that world you would have the same problem that we have in our world was getting married which is 0.78

00:21:16.720 in that world you can't easily just take off your fursona your fursona is something you want to

00:21:20.080 live with right you know so you would get married in a fursona and everything i was like how from

00:21:23.680 a first principles perspective would you differentiate same-sex attraction

00:21:30.320 from fursona attraction and i'll note here the reason why it becomes so problematic if same-sex

00:21:36.640 attraction is defined as a kink is then you know you're still culturally normative throughout history

00:21:43.600 like like there isn't like a definitive answer for this i'm trying to figure out is what is a practical

00:21:47.520 answer to this because throughout history there's been plenty of different ways of relating to gender

00:21:53.200 and but what i can say is is nobody's related to gender the way the urban monoculture does that's

00:21:57.600 for sure and the way the urban monoculture relates to the idea of transness like that you could want

00:22:01.680 to be under gender so much you would unalive yourself that has never happened in any other 0.99

00:22:05.440 culture in human history we have no recorded instances of that anywhere we have cultures that allow 0.99

00:22:10.640 for a variation of gender expression and gender fluidity but never this obsession with an alternate

00:22:15.920 gender perspective to the extent where 50 percent attempt to 50 to 40 attempt to unalive themselves

00:22:20.640 over it and what i'm pointing out is you you get you get different norms around gender and what we're

00:22:26.000 trying to do or what i'm trying to do in this non-experience is to think through okay what what makes

00:22:30.000 sense to have as a norm here so in in furry world i was like okay how do you categorize furries as something

00:22:40.400 like you're the the furry species you are interested in is something fundamentally different

00:22:44.720 from same-sex attraction or attraction to a specific gender profile if urban monoculture is a

00:22:51.520 multi-gender profile spectrum and this is where i just had this break and this realization that

00:22:59.360 changed everything for me oh okay there'd be no reason to specifically what i mean is as we move to

00:23:07.920 this urban monocultural perception of gender is this like completely fluid thing that you can choose

00:23:12.880 on the day based on your emotional state yeah that actually makes sense that's actually logical

00:23:20.400 given the direction that they are going societally speaking and given the way that they structure

00:23:24.480 their lives so the core values which we talked about before is to seek out pleasure and self-affirmation

00:23:33.120 insofar as it doesn't interfere with other people seeking out their own pleasure and self-affirmation

00:23:38.400 if you have an entire world view both around seeking out pleasure and self-affirmation and

00:23:44.160 around helping other people seek out pleasure and affirmation arousal and gender only matter

00:23:52.320 in so far as they can be used to give you pleasure right or or affirmation yeah and that's the way that

00:24:03.200 they have categorized sexuality and gender profiles for them same-sex attraction needs to be categorized as

00:24:11.600 something fundamentally different from kinks because if kinks are something because like you do it in public 1.00

00:24:18.080 makes other people uncomfortable and thus violates their right to pursue pleasure right um which is

00:24:24.320 bad from an urban monocultural perspective obviously this perspective within the urban monoculture has

00:24:29.200 been eroded a bit whether you know because now you do see a lot of very explicit kink stuff at pride 0.94

00:24:34.720 you see the trans stuff where a lot of it for a lot of people obviously this isn't true for every

00:24:38.960 trans people but it's very obvious this is true for some people who identify as trans is that it's about

00:24:43.040 violating other people's consent about forcing people to say and treat them in a way that that

00:24:48.400 person feels uncomfortable with and you can watch our episodes where we document this behavior i think

00:24:53.280 anyone who's trans or knows the trans community is like oh yeah well it's very clear that you know

00:24:57.360 this that some for some trans people that's what it's about and we don't like those people but 0.68

00:25:01.200 whatever we're not going to talk about that right now but you can be like oh but why now is it okay to

00:25:05.840 make other people uncomfortable and this is largely because the groups that are seen as more deviant are seen as

00:25:12.240 more deserving of a search for pleasure because they're seen as like higher morally we have an

00:25:18.160 episode on why this is the case in the urban monoculture but so so they are allowed to violate

00:25:23.440 other people's consent in regard to this stuff by the way if you're wondering if this episode is at

00:25:28.080 all in relation to the tucker carlson interview or the new studies that have come out to show erosion

00:25:33.760 of same-sex marriage rights and stuff like that this actually has nothing to do with that we recorded

00:25:39.360 this well before all that and we were going to release it over christmas when we weren't recording

00:25:43.040 and now all that has come out so we have to do episodes addressing that and so this episode about

00:25:47.440 us changing our minds on something has to come out before all of that um but if you say the same thing

00:25:52.320 for same-sex attraction well now you have a huge category of people who can't get married and everything

00:25:56.400 like that right so you say oh well we're going to carve this out even though two men kissing or two women

00:26:03.440 kissing does make a large percentage of the population uncomfortable especially people who

00:26:08.400 are not in the urban monoculture right yeah although i would argue it probably makes a lot of them

00:26:15.360 uncomfortable too i i say this as somebody who grew up with like a predominantly gay friend group 1.00

00:26:20.160 my roommate in high school was gay my best friend in college was gay my academic dad in college was gay

00:26:28.000 around a lot of gay people and that's also why i had some trouble really you know because i have so 0.96

00:26:32.240 many gay friends being like yeah but i i really want to rethink like like try to rethink this from

00:26:37.520 a first principles perspective that's not just about defending a status quo in which my friends don't

00:26:44.080 need to think about yeah but is this really the best way to be doing things and so but i can't say

00:26:48.880 was all of that acceptance of gayness in my life i still felt weird i i would never say it for fear

00:26:55.440 of persecution but i still felt like a when i saw you know two guys making out or something like that

00:27:01.840 and i and i think that that's just probably a natural hard-coded thing in a lot of guys and

00:27:06.720 it might be hard-coded and a lot of women but well i mean think just being a kid just seeing anyone 0.88

00:27:12.080 do it you're like oh you know it's yeah but i don't think anyone kissing is weird i don't necessarily

00:27:18.720 feel that way when i see attractive males and females kissing oh i do i i can't stand the sound

00:27:26.080 of people kissing but actually this brings up a good point because you have varying sexual profiles and

00:27:30.560 as we've always argued disgust should be considered a valid part of somebody's sexual profile

00:27:35.200 even though it's not right now it's not just what arouses you what disgusts you and you're saying

00:27:38.880 that you don't like seeing any pda which yeah or even like on on a movie like the sound of people kissing

00:27:47.120 oh like just thinking about it but when i started thinking about it from the perspective of the urban

00:27:52.240 monoculture i was like oh my god this actually makes perfect sips right if life is about a pursuit of

00:27:59.840 pleasure not interfering with other people's pursuit of pleasure then it doesn't matter

00:28:04.640 whether arousal pattern is tied to procreation it doesn't matter whether arousal pattern was tied to

00:28:10.800 evolution or something that randomly happened to you that would be a silly way to see things

00:28:16.720 because procreation is just not a particularly important part of life right and then i began to

00:28:22.960 think about this within the next era that we are going into and this is why the furry analogy really

00:28:27.840 messed up my brain right because i was like okay so we're going into an era in which the people

00:28:36.720 you interact with predominantly like is on discord servers is on youtube is on comment sections is on

00:28:42.720 twitter is on x everything like that and we are already seeing a large number of them and this is

00:28:49.120 true with people i interact with with business or anything like that using avatars that are non-human

00:28:55.760 to represent themselves these avatars can be anything from furries to anime characters to

00:29:02.560 you know custom whatevers this has become completely normal when i think of some of my friends the first

00:29:10.560 image that comes to my head is not their face but their avatar so true i know their face i interact

00:29:18.800 with them more through their avatar than through their face and so that's what comes to mind

00:29:22.720 as we enter an era of ai you you guys have seen how good this technology is already imagine where

00:29:30.640 it's going to be for our kids generation right they're going to be able to have first owners if

00:29:36.320 they want them or anime characters or completely alternate biologies if they want them be the way

00:29:41.520 that they present themselves to other people and because of that when they're when they're interacting with

00:29:48.320 somebody online or they're talking to somebody online those people will see them not necessarily

00:29:53.840 as a gender but would their gender even matter then if they're not going to meet in person right

00:29:59.360 and they're just getting off to other people online from the perspective of the urban monoculture

00:30:02.640 if you can just change gender with a button if you can just change to be a furry with a button

00:30:08.560 and everyone is like well we haven't gotten nearly to the point where you're going to get hafted

00:30:11.680 feedback from these sorts of scenarios and it's like how long do you think that's going to take if ai really

00:30:16.960 does start to foom like be realistic here people the the the pleasure pods the digital realms are

00:30:24.160 coming meta may have jumped the shark on that a little early and even if it's not within our kids

00:30:29.360 generation it will certainly be within our grandkids generation you know we're just talking about you

00:30:34.960 know a few generations here right like and this this changes if arousal is categorized in specific

00:30:42.960 ways and if the reason we had to carve out same-sex patterns as being different than other

00:30:46.640 patterns what's the specific arousal pathways could be pursued there's no longer a reason to do that

00:30:52.640 now in fact what you should do is and i think we're already seeing the left do this i think that

00:30:58.320 this is where the proliferation of gender profiles came from i think the proliferation of gender profiles

00:31:05.120 within the urban monoculture is a prelude to the normalization of alternate online pseudonymities

00:31:13.520 you know and and saying that is who i really am right like i really am skylar the fox sometimes and

00:31:21.840 i really am you know becca the anime girl sometimes i'm not good at coming up with names like this but

00:31:28.880 you you get the idea so are you following me so far like the urban monocultural's trajectory

00:31:33.680 actually makes sense that i think i can project where it's going next just to like if i'm getting this

00:31:39.680 right almost total abstraction and absurdity i don't think it's absurdity it follows a logically

00:31:47.200 consistent format from their perspective to them life is about the pursuit of pleasure and self-affirmation

00:31:54.160 so long as you do not interfere with others pursuit of pleasure and self-affirmation and if you take that

00:32:01.440 perspective and somebody wants to identify with a fox right like character like how are you actually

00:32:08.640 doing a good thing by saying no you're not allowed to do that okay especially when the technology makes

00:32:14.160 it incredibly easy like think about the way that they would argue this if somebody's like hey you

00:32:18.880 know you know you're not actually that and they'd be like you know i find that really dissociating when

00:32:23.520 you say that like it honestly it really hurts my feelings right you get a generation of argument

00:32:28.480 around this and it's the next big fad that goes big right you know and we've seen sort of prodromal

00:32:34.560 stuff around this within like therians or other kin or like alternate sexual profiles but basically

00:32:39.680 i'm saying it's going in that direction now it going in that direction left a lot of the same sex 1.00

00:32:44.640 community behind right because when gender isn't something you're born with and a lesbian which you 0.80

00:32:51.440 know i believe some people are born was like disgust towards male genitalia because i have

00:32:56.880 disgust towards male genitalia so i i would assume that some women are born that way right you know 1.00

00:33:02.160 and they say i don't like that and then somebody's like yeah but i identify as a woman and this is

00:33:05.680 lady d right so you're being transphobic by saying this like it has completely left behind that component

00:33:11.280 of the community it's completely left behind the gay man who's like you know if you can just identify 0.95

00:33:16.080 as any gender you feel like in the moment then the very idea of being gay or same-sex attracted no

00:33:22.960 longer has a carve out among other kings right like there's no longer a logical reason to carve

00:33:27.840 it out in the way that we did historically but so they're they're sort of left behind and so we'll

00:33:31.760 address this community in a second but then i started to think about it's like okay that's the

00:33:36.160 way the urban monoculture is framing things but of course if you view life as a pursuit of pleasure

00:33:40.080 and self-affirmation eventually the cultures that do that are going to die out right because there's

00:33:44.720 no way you can be above repopulation fertility rate and have those sorts of pursuits or or interests

00:33:50.640 right and we've also seen the and you can watch many of our episodes on this the massive negative

00:33:55.760 psychological effects living that type of lifestyle has you the closer you are to the urban monoculture

00:34:00.480 the closer you are to these sorts of groups and identifications the higher rates you have of many

00:34:05.600 negative psychological whether it's depression or unaliving rates or self-hatred or you know mental

00:34:12.240 illnesses or or really anything else okay before i get to the next thing any thoughts simone

00:34:17.120 no keep going by the way but i convinced you so far you think this is a good theory so far

00:34:21.680 plausible yes plausible okay so then i was thinking okay so when i'm raising my kids right

00:34:26.640 because i've always been like oh there's the same-sex attracted we would say is okay well you

00:34:30.240 know pursue same-sex attraction if you want insofar as you can still have kids right or a large number

00:34:36.320 of kids and you've pointed out that you know if we have a lesbian daughter a lesbian can actually 1.00

00:34:39.920 have twice as many kids if they make a rule that they only do insemination from their biological

00:34:44.560 relatives by this what i mean is they would be inseminated by their partner's brother's semen

00:34:51.600 their partners would and they're well no that their partners would be by theirs and when they're

00:34:55.840 pregnant they're inseminated by their partner's brother's semen so the kids are all at least 25 0.90

00:35:01.200 percent theirs um and this would allow them to have kids at twice the rate um because both women could 0.98

00:35:07.040 be pregnant at the same time presumably um and a lot of people are like who would want that if simone 0.66

00:35:12.080 and i were both women we would both be pregnant all the time yeah i would be pumping out kids so 0.85

00:35:17.760 fast you have no idea if our kids have the same predilections we do i remember you would freaking 0.55

00:35:22.160 hate being pregnant so much one pro natalist lesbian who was like yeah i was trying to explain the logic 1.00

00:35:29.120 of this to my girlfriend and she just thought it was really weird and then we ended up breaking up

00:35:33.760 she's like no but you understand i understand it's my brother and that's weird from like societal

00:35:39.840 standards but it would be 25 my kid right yeah like it only makes sense it's it's so weird to me that

00:35:49.680 lesbians who had siblings would have their partner if their partner was being the the gestational like 1.00

00:35:57.280 egg donor and carrier consider anything but the the person's brother if they have right but we're

00:36:06.080 going to ignore all of that for a second package that up put it to the side if you're building a

00:36:10.320 culture for intergenerational transmission that is designed to be you you so if your culture treats

00:36:18.560 people in a way that just feels fundamentally unfair to other people so let's now talk about the the

00:36:24.800 dangers of same-sex attraction prohibitions for a culture that wants to intergenerationally replicate 0.65

00:36:29.680 and survive the biggest danger of same-sex around bands or you know sort of prohibitions against this

00:36:36.400 as a culture is it can feel arbitrary and cruel to youth growing up within that culture and it can lead

00:36:43.520 them to feel that that culture is not benevolent or caring which can be used to deconvert them but you

00:36:50.320 see a lot with with mormons oh you see with even even in almost especially when the mormons themselves

00:36:58.320 who deconverted and talk about this are not gay which is really interesting yeah because they're 0.51

00:37:02.880 like i had x gay for any with a perfectly nice person i didn't understand why he was so shamed by 0.78

00:37:09.120 my culture right you you know it's more like oh i saw that they said you should do this if you're gay

00:37:16.000 and i can't believe they said that which is also odd i don't know right but the point being is the

00:37:22.560 urban monoculture has evolved to get be very very good and it's one of the reasons why it focuses on

00:37:27.520 all this weird gender stuff which you might be like why is it when gay same-sex attractive people are

00:37:33.120 such a small percentage of the population why is the urban monoculture so obsessed with it why is it

00:37:36.640 so obsessed with the trans thing and it's because it can use those wedge issues to deconvert people 0.99

00:37:42.480 by making your more traditionalist culture seem arbitrary and cruel yeah and so you know if you're

00:37:47.600 building a culture from scratch and you build what can seem like an arbitrary rule against you know

00:37:52.080 same-sex attraction or something like that or or categorization of it your kids can be like hey

00:37:57.120 that just seems like mean like i don't want to be part of a culture that's like that right so be aware

00:38:02.240 that there are there are costs to this within a modern context that didn't exist in a historic context

00:38:06.720 you can be like you know no nobody in the medieval period was like well that just seems pretty mean

00:38:11.440 i've got a you know a gay friend greg over here right you know um so this this is where we are

00:38:17.840 right now in sort of my chain of logic so then i was like okay

00:38:24.320 so what if i took a position that was completely alternative to the urban monoculture and i was

00:38:29.520 like oh my god as soon as i had the thought i was like this is the only meaningful sexual

00:38:35.520 differentiator in humans it's not gay versus straight and this is the way that we should view

00:38:41.840 sexual differentiation in the future which is is arousal and sexuality to you like the way that you

00:38:51.840 have chosen to relate to it about procreation or is it about pleasure and self-affirmation

00:39:01.280 so what i'm saying here is the actual meaningful difference between individuals is not whatever

00:39:13.040 arousal profile they happen to have been born with or even the exact way that they choose to live their

00:39:19.600 lifestyle it is the way they relate to sexuality in the first place the way they relate to arousal in the

00:39:27.680 first place because that is downstream of a chosen metaphysical or world perspective

00:39:33.600 that no longer feels arbitrary when you tell your kids oh we think lesser of people who adopt this

00:39:41.920 style of living so if i tell my kids you know all of these things these these arousal profiles this is

00:39:47.840 how they work this is how they they are different within people but at the end of the day the way

00:39:52.720 that we as a culture choose to relate to them is to say there are some that we can utilize to motivate

00:40:00.880 reproduction and then the rest are meaningfully kinks which is to say that within my context or within 0.98

00:40:08.880 my culture i would say because i think that this is safer to do in terms of not having your kids pulled

00:40:12.560 out of your culture instead of vilifying them just be like you may have them you may not don't let them 1.00

00:40:19.600 determine your identity don't let them get you into situations that could negatively affect your

00:40:25.520 health or affect your career or life and do not let them become obsessions for you okay yeah i'm an

00:40:32.480 obsession for you because some people are like well some people just can't control themselves around

00:40:35.360 porn then naltrexone and you'll be able to control yourself yeah totally uh you can medicate this

00:40:41.120 yeah so the point i'm making here is to say i would tell my kids it is not necessarily same-sex

00:40:50.480 attraction that you are shaming it is anyone who has chosen to live a lifestyle where sexuality

00:40:57.280 is either a form of identity because there is no reason to make your arousal profile your identity

00:41:03.680 or a source of self-affirmation because there is no reason to search for self-affirmation in something

00:41:08.960 that you didn't personally choose you know if it's just who you're born as then and you don't

00:41:13.840 have any sort of like history with it then it's there's no reason for that to give you you know

00:41:18.480 pride over other people and is it what was the final one here is it something that that's related to

00:41:24.720 just pleasure right because all of those things are downstream of the urban monoculture's way

00:41:28.240 of relating to sexuality and gender right and then i would say and then on the other hand you have people

00:41:35.120 who have chosen to say okay this that arouses me i may be able to because this technology progresses

00:41:44.960 i may be able to utilize these arousal pathways to help me form a stable cohabitating family unit right

00:41:54.080 but in large part it's probably going to be easier at least with the technology that we have today

00:41:59.760 even if you are same-sex attracted to be in a non-same-sex attracted relationship and if you

00:42:05.680 choose to not do that that's like a totally valid choice for my in terms of like how to relate to my

00:42:11.120 kids to not seem capricious and how i would lay down the rules but understand that you are you like

00:42:16.160 more is going to be expected from you and the workload that you are going to undertake in exchange for the

00:42:23.920 the pleasure and compatibility you get to be with a partner who is maximally arousing to you which is

00:42:29.600 a trade-off that many men make right like i'd be like i i would have no more disdain for you if you

00:42:37.600 made these decisions than if your brother for example married some super hot girl who told him she was

00:42:45.280 never going to have any kids yeah and there's a lot of girls like that out there right like that's a 1.00

00:42:50.160 very common compromise that people make if anything if you marry a guy and he plans to try to have lots

00:42:57.760 of kids that's better than the person who indulgently marries a girl who says i'm not going to try to 0.96

00:43:02.960 have any other kids but it's probably better in most cases that you just you know masturbate when 0.98

00:43:11.440 you're going to masturbate and and suck it up in regards to your relationship honestly you know 0.99

00:43:17.840 does this recategorization of sexuality into not gay versus straight but in regards to how you relate 1.00

00:43:26.480 to your arousal patterns more broadly better because i think it it better categorizes everyone

00:43:31.920 who's who's really on our broader team into one category and everyone who's off our team into another

00:43:38.800 category and it also helps differentiate our category from the urban monoculture so this doesn't

00:43:45.760 mean that you are not of this category if you don't have kids or if you choose a life where you don't have

00:43:50.640 kids it's more about how you relate to arousal and pleasure more broadly you can decide that your

00:43:56.800 life is better spent in service to the future of humanity through taking on an endeavor or a pathway

00:44:02.560 that prevents you from having kids but is still not dedicated to pleasure it's basically is your life

00:44:08.160 dedicated to pleasure is pleasure how you identify who you are like is the things that give you pleasure

00:44:13.920 your core sense of identity or do you internally calculate them as vices that subtract from your

00:44:20.640 purpose and here what i mean is anything that subtracts from your mission in life to somebody

00:44:25.680 with this mindset is a vice you know whether that is sleeping in or collecting warhammer cards or

00:44:33.680 masturbating too frequently or having sex and spending a large amount of time securing sexual partners 0.54

00:44:39.600 are the things that give you pleasure your core sense of identity and what's really cool about

00:44:44.560 this is this means that somebody who primarily identifies as like a magic the gathering hobbyist

00:44:50.560 would be seen as equally bad as somebody who primarily identifies as a furry whereas somebody who does

00:44:58.480 either of these things recreationally and understands that they are wasting their time and that the

00:45:04.160 short amount of time they have on earth while doing them but is like yeah but i wouldn't be able to

00:45:09.120 focus as hard on the stuff that really does matter if i didn't let loose occasionally you know you can

00:45:14.080 be totally on this side of this divide while having a preference for either of these things it's just how

00:45:20.320 you relate to them so if if i were to articulate this slightly differently it would basically just be

00:45:26.080 like okay is your is your are your sexual is your desired sexual lifestyle going to stop you from

00:45:34.320 pre-producing and having a flourishing family if yes we don't support it if no go for it buddy is that

00:45:43.360 is that kind of it i i i would say it's a little like that's that's i guess the the weakest way of

00:45:50.320 wording it which is you know you're saying is it not going to be incompatible is what i would say is

00:45:56.240 positive because the thing about kinks right is you know you may use a kink to get off or something 1.00

00:46:04.560 like that but that's an indulgent waste of time and you know that like if you have a correct way of

00:46:11.840 of relating to what i'd say like if you if you relate to sexuality in the way that i would say is

00:46:16.160 the correct way to relate to sexuality you would understand that that's just as bad as sitting in front 0.99

00:46:22.720 of a sports game and having a drink or watching you know anime or playing video games or arguing

00:46:31.920 with someone online when you know you're never going to change their mind yeah or troll posting

00:46:37.120 when you know it's not it doesn't have like a specific agenda anything you are doing for the

00:46:42.560 sake of you know pleasure or addictive pathways or anything like that it's it's all in that same

00:46:48.080 category maybe not higher or lower but it's all in that same category indulgence right and to dedicate

00:46:55.920 your life to an indulgence of that category and this is where i see you know arousal patterns in

00:47:02.480 life dedicated to them probably pretty differently than a lot of conservatives where they might see

00:47:08.800 a person who you know dedicates their entire life to like their their fetish and you know they're going

00:47:16.480 to what's that fulsome street fair and you know they all the the weird fetish gear and this is like

00:47:22.800 everything about their life and they see them as a significantly higher category of degeneracy

00:47:28.480 than say somebody who spends all of their money and free time on warhammer paraphernalia and has a

00:47:34.880 giant like warhammer setup in their room or or the model train sets or

00:47:41.680 audience here equally objectionable equally objectionable yeah because it's something that has

00:47:46.480 no possibility of contributing to civilization so instead of like spectrums of gay to straight 1.00

00:47:52.800 they are spectrums of contributes to human flourishing versus doesn't yeah well not contributes

00:48:00.160 to but that's the way that they structure their their lives in their relation to their own arousal and 0.98

00:48:04.720 sexuality i don't know what you mean exactly by that i mean because what does warhammer have to do with

00:48:10.880 your relation to okay their lives in their own pleasure pathways okay sort of what what they do

00:48:19.520 for for fulfillment in life yes and then people can be like well what about like biblical stuff because

00:48:26.000 we've said you know we we follow biblical stuff as well and i'd be like yeah but that's like an

00:48:29.600 additional category that i apply to my family right like the the biblical perspective on things like

00:48:36.480 like when i'm telling my kids you shouldn't do x or y i think if i over rely i'd be like there is

00:48:42.160 a biblical argument for this but we're not going to lean on the biblical argument for this because

00:48:47.120 it will seem capricious within a modern setting we are going to lean on this secondary argument for

00:48:52.080 this and to live a life that is in line with biblical principles somebody can be like well this is

00:48:57.760 totally different from just saying i'm going to live a life that's in service to the next generation

00:49:02.320 right to me i might say this person is like closer to my tribe if they do that but i'm not going to

00:49:09.280 say that i am incompatible with aligning my objectives and goals with the other person

00:49:15.200 or i would do something that capriciously impeded their lifestyle so that would be my differentiator

00:49:20.960 there especially as we move into an environment where the technology for having children changes

00:49:28.080 the the gender compatibilities of individuals yeah but i mean in a sense it's only going to get worse

00:49:37.600 i guess you could say so well no it's going to get the the the so i think you're going to see two

00:49:43.440 things happen the hedonistic pathway is going to become even harder to resist because of all of the

00:49:50.800 new things you can be was in an online context i actually think it was your time did a very good

00:49:56.480 job of this when you've been watching so much of that with the kids when bmo is in the you know

00:50:01.760 virtual world and everybody has their like weird avatar and their you know upgrade it with points

00:50:06.400 and stuff like this and this is how they identify and present themselves to everyone else and it just

00:50:09.680 becomes weird and abstracted and everything like you said right well who let these two system dumps

00:50:15.440 into the chat room know what i'm saying vinnie can you hook my friend up with some bmo brand effies

00:50:22.640 this super skid costs 15 million crypto coins give it to me vinnie

00:50:33.200 i'm beautiful yeah i don't think it's going to become weird and abstracted because these people

00:50:38.240 are still going to be human and they're still going to have human arousal pathways and so they're

00:50:41.360 going to act like and look like all of the sexiest things from the human yeah a few of them will

00:50:46.080 dress as weird abstracted you know to do you know the way do do you know the way to the what is it

00:50:52.640 to the devil or whatever you don't know the way do you know the way you have to have ebola to know the

00:51:00.480 way i have ebola it doesn't do the way what's a it has to do with ebola

00:51:10.160 ebola it's the way so anyway so the the i think the vast majority of people are going to dress as

00:51:16.240 something that they see as arousing to other people because being human they want to imagine themselves

00:51:21.760 as arousing to the the individuals who they have a sexual attraction to right like the gender they

00:51:29.200 have a sexual attraction to and so or the multiple genders or whatever right but but they're they

00:51:34.240 want to see themselves as attractive to that i often use ai to solicit feedback on my episodes

00:51:39.280 and i absolutely loved one of the lines that it came up with the urban monoculture already treats

00:51:44.800 gender as a mood not a chromosome once high fidelity avatars haptic suits and eventual direct neural

00:51:50.400 interfaces are normal i'm a girl and i'm a dragon fox with three tails and glowing neon genitals become 0.51

00:51:57.520 functionally indistinguishable claims at that point the old progressive argument same-sex attraction is

00:52:02.320 not a kink because it's an immutable orientation towards the natural category gender simply evaporates

00:52:08.400 and so i think we're not going to see a total abstraction we will see a total

00:52:12.800 hedonization of avatar profiles uh which i think in a large part we sort of already have seen i mean look

00:52:19.280 at the vtubers and stuff like that come on man nobody very few people but we have huge overlap with this

00:52:24.000 one guy who does a vtube as a troll he's like a romanian guy and he's got a very honest yes yes 0.88

00:52:31.120 yeah so that's that's where i think that that culture is going um and i think that broadly i can

00:52:36.880 find common ground with anybody who is dedicating their lives and their actions to something larger

00:52:47.440 than self-affirmation and pleasure and i will find a degree of contention as i've already mentioned

00:52:55.200 but i i think it's it's only it's it's right now sort of long-term contention rather than a

00:52:59.520 contention sort of for for the person in the moment alliances with with individuals who are optimizing for

00:53:06.480 something other than long-term human flourishing but yeah thoughts i like this i mean i really i think

00:53:14.640 the important thing really is okay i'm i don't think it's logically inconsistent that people on a

00:53:24.240 biblical basis object to certain sexual proclivities that is fine but i think in terms of our particular

00:53:31.520 techno puritan religious framework it has to instead of being more necessarily to

00:53:40.240 i think a lot of biblical norms which have are more like bits of dust that were picked

00:53:45.360 up by the rolling meatball that is the bible you know like there's a lot of stuff

00:53:48.800 biblical norms are meant to be understood why did these norms exist within their

00:53:52.400 a lot of things just got tacked on to various religious texts over time as like here's this thing

00:53:57.680 we do and also this thing you know helps to reduce disease spread this thing helps to do you know

00:54:02.160 a lot of the things that got picked up as religious traditions got picked up because they

00:54:07.120 largely help to reduce disease spread or or help society in living in larger and larger

00:54:12.480 civilizational formats larger cities etc survive and i think if you want to look at it from a techno

00:54:19.440 puritan perspective we take a look at this from a meta perspective and say okay what were all those

00:54:24.240 things really for though and they were for promoting long-term human flourishing and growth

00:54:30.320 so when we ask is this particular hobby or indulgence or or sexuality or whatever good or bad does it

00:54:40.240 contribute to long-term human flourishing and the answer is no any anything that you do not do for

00:54:46.000 for god is a sin like yeah there's also i mean i think if you extend it to other sins

00:54:51.600 like sloth or avarice or pride you know all these things are really related to that as well i would

00:54:59.440 say i mean you were talking for example about excessive online commentary just to try to like

00:55:04.400 you know change someone's mind who's never going to change their mind you know all these things i think

00:55:09.120 are are you you can kind of connect them to the seven deadly sins if you want to and and and those

00:55:16.400 really have to do with like hey you're not you're not serving god you're not serving human flourishing

00:55:22.240 or the future of humanity by doing this thing i think was in the existing world the seven deadly sins

00:55:28.160 well they still can be useful in calling out like hey maybe pride is not a good thing yeah a better

00:55:34.400 framework is to understand whether or not you're doing something to fulfill some sort of like biological

00:55:39.440 pathway like some sort of opioid pathway or are you doing it because it is in the best interest

00:55:46.080 of you know we associate god with future human flourishing because it is in the best interest of

00:55:51.200 god and obviously you can associate god with something else but i was like anyone you know when

00:55:54.800 they're arguing with somebody online and they know they're never going to convince the person thinks

00:55:58.160 they're doing that for god or when they're buying warhammer figurines or when they're watching a sports

00:56:02.800 game or when they're you know which would mean all of those things they said yeah yeah okay i like that

00:56:10.960 i mean i i yeah i i like that it is good it is favorable so you're saying that like if you had a son 0.99

00:56:20.080 who was totally gay you would probably recommend a heterosexual lifestyle and then just like gay porn and 0.94

00:56:28.480 you know bath houses or whatever and i'd say well minus the bath houses this isn't that different 0.95

00:56:33.920 than the way things were done from like the 1950s to well as far back as i'm aware in western civilization

00:56:40.800 this isn't like some radical idea we were able to live fairly fine and same-sex attracted people were

00:56:48.080 able to live fairly fine with this normalized so i don't have a problem suggesting that and so now you

00:56:54.400 might be saying well the urban monoculture just can't deal with a concept like that you know

00:56:59.040 a person not having what arouses them be given to them they think it's the right of people and i'm

00:57:03.360 like no no no no they think it's a right of attractive people they think it's a right of attractive men

00:57:08.320 the urban monoculture recognizes perfectly well there are hundreds of millions of men who are just 0.95

00:57:14.000 born not attractive enough or not intelligent enough or without the social charisma to get a

00:57:19.600 partner and it derides them it calls them incels and they don't deserve to act on their arousal and

00:57:26.800 not only that but they're supposed to be fine and emotionally healthy why is it okay and this is a

00:57:31.600 much larger population than the gay population of the united states the incel population why why are we 1.00

00:57:35.920 okay saying that they don't need to have their arousal pathways fulfilled and that's perfectly an easy 0.76

00:57:41.440 and okay thing for them to live with but gay people know they have a right to have their arousal 0.97

00:57:48.000 pathways filled and again i'm i'm i take the position of if you want to culturally normalize

00:57:53.680 this do it's not my goal to get in your culture's biz about this but the arguments that they make

00:58:01.680 for why gays should be able to live this way should also apply to incels and they often don't and the

00:58:07.200 fact that they dehumanize incels on top of all of this that they a population that is by the way sees a

00:58:13.920 pretty woman doesn't act on it doesn't skis on them that is suppressing their arousal patterns 1.00

00:58:19.680 that this population is degraded it's shocking to me but it shows that there is an inherent caste 0.97

00:58:26.240 system where the urban monoculture really only considers attractive men or it's only when they 0.90

00:58:30.880 are deprived of their path towards pleasure has a grave injustice taken place and you absolutely see

00:58:36.480 this where they're like can you imagine what it would be like to go your whole life without being

00:58:42.480 able to act on your arousal pattern it's like yeah that's that's literally this other group that

00:58:48.160 you mock deride and dehumanize the incel population now people will be like no no no this is about love

00:58:55.760 and i point out here no it's not about love no it's not you could love somebody without them being

00:59:00.240 arousing to you everybody knows this everybody knows it in fact we even laud that as a society you

00:59:06.080 somebody's wife gets like burnt up in a fire and she's horribly disfigured and he he loves her that's

00:59:10.880 that's that's amazing shallow hell you know you're you're with somebody despite the way that they

00:59:17.520 look not being arousing to anyone despite just not being arousing to you and it is actually sort of

00:59:22.080 even gross to gay people to say this that a same-sex attracted person is only able to love people of

00:59:29.280 their own gender that's not a thing no love is not a gendered thing you you you the love emotion just 0.81

00:59:36.880 doesn't work that way even though they've made up all these like a romantic whatever everybody knows

00:59:43.040 you can fall in love with anyone and this is because and we have an episode on this with a

00:59:47.200 lots and lots of receipts romantic love as an emotional set is mostly a myth and that the reality

00:59:54.960 of the situation is is that love is a choice it is about the way you choose to treat the other people

01:00:00.320 in your life and you choose to contextualize the other people in your life anyway i appreciate it

01:00:07.120 i love you well i just think you need to recontextualize a lot of this stuff was in a

01:00:11.680 modern context if you want to keep your kids right because if things seem capricious it's going to be

01:00:18.160 very hard to keep your kids within your cultural context you bet yeah yeah yeah and and and i think

01:00:27.840 more than ever people have to think extremely careful about any rule that can be construed as

01:00:34.000 arbitrary um or that like i guess a very very common and wise parenting advice is you need to

01:00:41.440 very carefully choose your battles and choose what hell you want to die on and you could only choose

01:00:46.560 like a couple a very small number of things or a very like just a single or one or two

01:00:52.640 uh core operating principles and stick to them and so i like this for that reason it's good yeah

01:01:00.080 oh by the way something i always hate when people say because nuck said this recently and

01:01:03.760 i was a little disappointed oh no this was his opinion on same-sex marriage and he's like well

01:01:08.640 i think same-sex marriage should be illegal because i think that marriage should only be 1.00

01:01:14.320 a religious institution right like that it should only be through the church and i'm like

01:01:17.520 yeah it's a common argument no it is a common argument but it's a libertarian cop-out because

01:01:22.320 no libertarian actually fights for that i've never seen any serious politician actually fight to make

01:01:28.000 marriage only and solely a religious institution i believe it should be but even if you made it only

01:01:34.560 and solely a religious institution it wouldn't really change anything in our society because tons 0.95

01:01:39.440 of christian churches would be marrying gay people tons of jewish churches would be marrying gay people 0.80

01:01:43.840 tons of people you you would functionally change nothing from society today to that society so it 0.99

01:01:52.080 allows you to sound like you're taking the conservative position without actually taking a meaningful stance

01:02:00.240 okay i see that is a fair point yeah you can't just be like it's religious because

01:02:05.840 i mean like half of the religions that you would guess would not then marry gay couples have like

01:02:12.640 pride flags not even pride flags progress flags hanging outside them so i mean you have done

01:02:19.280 nothing i i generally like that but i mentioned that because i was disappointed i was like come on man

01:02:24.320 that's a that's a lame take anyway love you i love you too okay i'm gonna really quickly fill his

01:02:31.520 milk bottle you look great and i just love that ralph florin oh jacket is something jacket well it looks

01:02:39.280 a little libertarian it goes with our vibe these days right you know gotta well it also it's very

01:02:43.120 on trend although like in a in the not on trend way because apparently the the trend of christmas decor

01:02:49.600 this year is ralph lauren christmas everyone on tiktok is on about the ralph lauren christmas you

01:02:56.080 gotta throw away your gingerbread themed christmas decorations because you're doing ralph lauren this year

01:03:01.920 all these people who worked at ralph lauren stores are chiming in to talk about ralph lauren's christmas

01:03:10.720 decorating rules because there were a lot of them really yeah i mean like no green wreaths no no

01:03:19.760 presents under the tree that were not boxes and all the same wrapping paper either you know the reverse

01:03:27.200 pattern or the main pattern that actually does sound like it's very aesthetically appealing oh yeah

01:03:31.920 no like it's it's all plaids and you know matching basically like what a lot of people's

01:03:37.920 takes on this are is that ralph lauren christmas is just like literally freaking traditional christmas

01:03:43.360 like red and green and plaid and you can't do anything traditional that sounds like it might be for nazis

01:03:48.400 well yeah because well there's a lot of gatekeeping people are are shaming all the gray 0.98

01:03:53.440 millennials and they're like you and your disgusting gray millennial house aren't allowed 1.00

01:03:58.000 to have ralph lauren christmas because you chose your gray millennial house and there's all these 0.94

01:04:04.480 you know former ralph lauren associates ralph lauren christmas our our home isn't it's more like

01:04:10.240 the home alone house is is is framed as the ralph lauren christmas they destroyed it and made it

01:04:16.400 gray millennial house oh yes that's oh man the before and after photos are the most devastating 1.00

01:04:22.400 forget photos of gaza people home alone house okay so what did you think of the video today what

01:04:30.400 was it i mean did you did you get today's video i got the comments yeah the the most common comment

01:04:36.640 we got like at least four of these it surprised me is that people are saying that this is a

01:04:43.120 40 trump move a 40 chess move on behalf of trump in that he has explicitly stated in the past and i

01:04:51.200 do actually recall him saying this that the democrats are always going to do the opposite

01:04:54.960 of what he says he wants and so he acted like he didn't want the epstein files released so the

01:04:59.280 democrats back themselves if he actually did that and and if the epstein files get released and there's

01:05:06.000 like literally nothing on him as it appears there is it could be it could be yeah and then other people

01:05:13.280 are like yeah and the only reason why he might have wanted to hold on to the trump or sorry the epstein

01:05:18.320 files for longer is because he would want to actually you will say unholster them during the

01:05:23.760 midterms so there are definitely there's a narrative where this all makes a lot of sense i don't know

01:05:30.320 if that's true or not obviously we can't know because we're not in trump's mind but i like i like that

01:05:36.560 i like it all right all right oh how did the video do by the way not well eight of ten eight of ten

01:05:45.360 hmm simone that turkey's looking very nice it was our favorite price free coupon turkey

01:05:55.840 oh look at that look at that

01:06:04.000 so and i've got bad news for you you may be a trad wife because i'm making sourdough and turkey 1.00

01:06:11.360 in my sourdough basket like while we have last night's sourdough are you gonna are you gonna

01:06:16.240 show off your well the kids actually went through a lot of it so i'm happy

01:06:23.520 good times all right let's get this bird back in

01:06:27.360 but it's pretty good right it's gonna be lovely butter boysen sauce that you found a recipe for

01:06:41.280 it's so weird that you used to be like this hipster girl and yet everything you're

01:07:06.560 this is what i want everything you're doing now is so hipster i wanted yeah i wanted the the blue

01:07:11.680 egg chickens and the sourdough and the yeah all that stuff and the really funny thing is that

01:07:18.480 i i would bake things on the weekends and then i wouldn't want to eat them because i'm like i don't

01:07:22.240 want to eat this stuff like i don't i can't eat it all by myself so now i just have a bunch of kids like

01:07:28.960 grab this wild animals monkeys

01:07:37.600 it's literally the sound they make when they eat

01:07:47.280 oh yeah i gotta show the fans we use uh what did i use for this one you know one of the ai image

01:07:52.640 sites for pictures of our kids what oh the ai yeah yeah yeah and this is what we used to film when the

01:07:57.840 channel started oh god you're right yeah you told them here yeah let me go upstairs then

01:08:15.120 yeah yeah yeah thanksgiving so dad's with the kids all day

01:08:18.320 oh my god are any of them still guys is this a mess

01:08:27.440 you're so happy with yourself girl titan indy

01:08:35.200 are you gonna get bobbed

01:08:40.800 tight

01:08:41.200 you are in big trouble

01:08:49.840 not again okay sweetheart

01:08:55.120 indy

01:08:57.760 don't do that

01:08:58.400 put them away please

01:09:07.600 put them away please tighten

01:09:12.000 because mommy's gonna cook you up like a turkey if you don't 1.00

01:09:19.680 thank you sweetheart i really appreciate it i love you a lot

01:09:23.040 are you guys watching cartoons yeah i found a thanksgiving run from the 1996

01:09:35.920 commercials and all what are you doing toasty

01:09:41.440 are you playing among us octavian what are you working on

01:09:48.000 oh god i just want to get on making my video oh okay

01:09:52.960 yeah i'm losing tiktok okay i don't know i'm not

01:09:57.840 i love you buddy

01:09:58.800 i love you too

Based Camp - December 01, 2025

Updating Our View On Gay： Is It A Kink？

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