Updating Our View On Gay： Is It A Kink？
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 10 minutes
Words per Minute
177.86612
Summary
In this episode, I discuss my evolving views on same-sex attraction and how they relate to BDSM and kinks. I discuss why BDSM is not a kink and why there is no such thing as a "sissy" kink.
Transcript
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hello simone i'm excited to be here with you today today we are going to be discussing my
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evolving views on the way that at least within our family but not just within our family but
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i think society at large is going to move in this direction we'll think about same-sex attraction in
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the future and you as an audience so if you if you know me historically i've always been very
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sort of pro-gay right like you know they should be able to get married the way they want they
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should be able to live life the way they want and while i still think a lot of that the qualifications
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i have around that have adapted pretty heavily and you as an audience are going to get to see
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something very fun which is people ask how come you and simone always have like such similar beliefs
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about things or thoughts about things and it's because whenever one of us has like an update in
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our belief system we share it with the other one to try to convince them get pushback and then we sort
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of arrive at whatever the the convergent okay this is the new way of thinking about this yeah and
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it's often a moderated or or even totally new version of the idea it's not it's not always like
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melton wins yeah without moderation yeah so i'll sort of describe my thought journey as to how i got here
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and part of this i've been talking to you about already so what i talked to you about already
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it was me trying to think through why we categorize same-sex attraction as significantly different
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from any other arousal pattern kink as you would call it that is not meant to help us reproduce because
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you know presumably the reason why arousal evolved was to ensure that we had procreation and had
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children and we also argue that parts of the arousal system were adopted for other things
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that are related to survival so across mammal species not just in humans you see the submission
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and dominant system co-opting arousal patterns to motivate it you know interestingly where you where
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i find one of my favorite examples of this is in most species animals mammals like social mammals will
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take on the position a female of that species would to be mounted in order to show submission to somebody
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so you will even see males do this and females to show submission to the part not to their partner
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but to another person in their tribe or something like that what's really fascinating is in species
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where females are dominant like the spotted hyena the way to show submission is through an erection um
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and in spotted the way the females show dominance is through an erection isn't that no it's how they
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show submission what oh gosh okay i knew they had pseudopenises so so what she was thinking of is the
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the females of the spotted hyena actually have pseudopenises in order to show this this trait and so
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because it's a species with with dominant females the way that you show that you are submissive is to take
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on the role a male would take on right before sex when in species where males are typically dominant
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you take on the role that all right the reason i go into all of this is i'm pointing out that the
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arousal system is used for things other than just to motivate procreation and that this might explain
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some of the kinks that humans have perhaps even same-sex attraction although i think it is less likely
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that that motivates same-sex attraction and we can get into what might cause same-sex attraction a number of
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potential things but with this being the case there are now two broad definitions i could go for in my
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head that i think are good ways to divide sort of arousal patterns arousal patterns that are serving
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their intended function versus arousal patterns that are not serving their intended function and here you
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may say well because arousal patterns are co-opted throughout social mammals for dominance and submission
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displays then bdsm is less of a kink than same-sex attraction because this is just completely not
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useful for for survival and this one is however i don't think that that's necessarily a good way of
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doing division i would go on and say that probably in my head the way that i would divide it is arousal
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patterns that are tied to reproduction and arousal patterns that are not tied to reproduction and then
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you can say okay well but same-sex attraction is totally different from any other kink
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it's you being attracted to who a person is fundamentally right and it's something that you
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are you know you have at a young age and you can't easily change about yourself and here i would ask you
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to go to ayla has a great study on this i'll put the graph on screen if i can find it where she goes over
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the average age that kinks first appear and actually for a wide swath of kinks they appear
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before same-sex attraction does and not only that but if you look at studies on this they typically only
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look at things like bdsm and stuff like this but if you look at user reports of the persistency of kinks
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it appears that the persistency of kinks is at around the same level as the persistency of same-sex
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attraction maybe slightly less for some specific kicks like the dominance and the dominance of
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submission ones and i would also note here that same-sex attraction is not something that you
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necessarily have throughout your entire life if you look at people who go on tuberty hormones like
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sex changing hormones like trans people do you're looking at a 20 to 40 change their gender of primary
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attraction and we also know of we've done an episode on this the parasites that can change the gender that
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you are predominantly attracted to with things like toxoplasmosis being more likely to make you buy
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in order to help itself spread and this is a number of studies have have like like peer-reviewed studies
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have shown this obviously this is this is all very offensive territory we're getting in here but the
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reason i started to go through all this is is i was like okay all of these things but there is one core
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area where same-sex attraction and this is sort of where i had stopped on this before and sort of been like i
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guess our existing societal norms are good there is one area where which is to say if you live in a
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society where you're like hey and this is broadly the rule we have in our society and it's a rule that
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like i'm okay with like as a social rule as long as you don't involve me in your kinks right like your
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unique arousal pathways without my consent like i didn't go into a space where i knew that people were
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going to be doing this or i didn't you know you didn't you didn't force me to participate in some
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fantasy you have or something like that where i'm okay with that right um yeah so the problem with
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same-sex attraction and taking that is that then then how do these people get married right like if
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if a bdsm person doesn't need to have a marriage in bdsm outfits to get married but there is no way a
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same-sex attracted couple can get married without it very obviously being a same-sex attracted couple on that stage
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and so i started thinking about that and i was like okay i can see that and i can see why because
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you don't have any other kink like that there's no other kink that is societally accepted i suppose
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if you were like a pda file it would be very obvious if you tried to marry the person but that's with
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a non-consenting individual if you were a a beastie bestiality person and you decided to get married to
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a horse or a dog it would be very obvious but socially we don't condone that and no i've always found the
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reason we don't socially condone that incredibly stupid which is that these animals can't consent
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and it's like you eat animals like that like you farm animals like that you eat veal where you torture
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a baby cow like what are you what are you talking about these animals can't consent your dog is
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something that you bought and then it is normal for you to breed it and sell its offspring
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oh what are you when you put it that way golly no i i i think the reason why you shouldn't have
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sex with animals is the same reason that almost every culture on earth has a taboo against this
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or many do is that it spreads diseases and diseases are bad for populations and so having
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prohibitions against it is good to prevent the spread of diseases and then people can be like
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well does it same-sex relationships spread diseases which we'll get to but i mean historically it was
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true i mean look at the aids epidemic the moment it became normalized a lot of people suffered and
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died as a result of its normalization of diseases that didn't spread in other populations
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and if you look at our parasite video we we go over a number of uh or some evidence that there might
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be some unknown pathogens which could be motivating this behavior specifically we see different gut
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microbiomes in same-sex attracted people who participate in just different gut microbiomes now i'll note here
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it's not just gays or the kink that we would call gayness was this new taxonomy that changes sexual
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behavior we noted in that episode having certain types of a yeast infection will make a woman more
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turned on by being eaten out because that's how the infection spreads or that it appears that cucking
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behavior it really interesting one of the guys who listened to this was a prison guard and he was like
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oh yeah it's true you know first you're the pitcher then you're the catcher that's what everyone says
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that that cucking behavior is literally like a honey pot for bulls that can then make them want to
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cuck if you want to learn more about this watch that episode or we go into the science in detail
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which just blew my mind i guess is what i'd say i would still i think the aids epidemic really spread
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well before same-sex same-sex um the aids epidemic would not have spread if same-sex attraction had
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not been normalized to the extent that it was it wasn't fully normalized in society like it wasn't
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totally cool by no means but it was at the beginning of gay culture like the moment in mass was in major
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cities i won't say the moment i'm going to say like within 20 years of like gay people beginning to in in
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any sort of really large capacity participate in gay culture is when the aids epidemic started
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and uh i i mean are you denying that that is what facilitated both the incubation and spread
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obviously drug use helped as well but yeah i think it was probably more a matter of drug use and
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more social mobility like more travel in between cities than it than it was a product of the normalization
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you think the gays helped to travel between cities and then drug use helped it spread within cities
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no no i think that there was more travel that took place like internationally in between cities than
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ever before i mean i know for a fact like everyone knows for a fact well no i i agree with that but i
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if you had had the travel and you had had the drug use but you didn't have gay normalization
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or gay communities the aids epidemic wouldn't have been an epidemic i think maybe if it were still actively
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illegal i mean it still was in many places at that time yeah yeah but it's just that you had wide
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culture and i want to point out here because i think that this is a really hard pill to swallow
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but it is an accurate and realistic pill is when people talk about the shaming that same-sex attracted
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people got historically for acting on their arousal patterns and keep in mind there's a big difference
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between saying like the shaming somebody got for having an arousal pattern that's just the way you're
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born and acting on an arousal pattern there's many arousal patterns we shame people today for
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acting on because they lead to negative externalities when acted upon but the you could be like oh it's so
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horrible that they were shamed for this historically that they were you know perhaps even subject to
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physical violence if they did that too overtly but then you consider that the fear that this created in
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the same-sex attracted community that led them to not act in mass on these behaviors meant that something
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like the aids epidemic did not start in many ways that bigotry was the gates that were holding back the
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flood of the horror of the aids epidemic and in a way it was through that gating behavior that the bigots
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were preventing the mass exposure and death of many same-sex attracted people to aids and as that died
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down that allowed for something like aids to evolve almost as soon as a proto version of this community
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was normalized and this behavior was being done in mass and in large amounts obviously that's not
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relevant today and that would not be a good reason to be against same-sex attraction being acted on today
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but it does matter in a historic context when you're contextualizing was this bigotry wholly a negative
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thing the point i'm making is there were reasons historically to ban this and today most of the the
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diseases potentially that are transmitted by same-sex attraction are pretty much under control at this
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point yeah and so you know i i don't see it as as much of an issue in in that regard now we don't know
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how under control they are as i've said you can look at our parasite video on this and so it could
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be that there's there's some pathogens that we just aren't investigating because they are long-term
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pathogens and and there is a little bit of evidence for this but it's not like super strong outside of
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like well it is actually super strong because toxicplasmosis is much more common in men than women
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and it in it looks like it's beginning to be transferable for males to males and within some strains
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which is interesting because it's not all strains it's one strain seems to be specialized in human
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transmission now and you could really only get this when you consider that women own cats more
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than men do if it was transferring for some alternate pathway but anyway so that's sort of
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where i ended up which is just like well it's needlessly cool to have one unusual arousal pattern
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that for whatever reason can't live out their life that way right and and of course we've said
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historically we don't think people should be shamed for if they are same-sex attracted to deciding to
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live as heterosexual people like that's that's an okay thing to do okay yeah because this came out of
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nowhere we didn't even talk about this this morning instantly you want to do a podcast on this i'm so
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curious so i had this thought experiment in my head and this this is where it really got to me
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okay if you look at the urban monoculture and the way that it's begun to recategorize the concept of
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gender right and note here i'm not saying i agree with this recategorization of the concept of gender
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but this is the concept of gender in the way it is contextualized by the dominant culture
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in the west right now yeah gender is no longer something that you are born with right gender is
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something that you can choose or not i mean they wouldn't say you choose it it's more like it
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fluctuates with that throughout your life based on your personality and proclivities within any
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particular moment how you find now honestly and it can be one of you know many different gender
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labels right like one of probably like 35 or 40 or something like that it depends on the table you're
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using but it's this huge thing and when you take this perspective of gender many of the things that
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could have been used historically to say being gay wasn't just a kink i.e well you're attracted to
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something that is durably persistent throughout the person's life and i'd point out if you're talking about
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like well it's attraction to like who they are i'm like how is that different from like somebody
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who likes like really muscular women or somebody who likes you know really tall women or somebody
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who likes you know obese people or you know and all of which we would consider kinks we may even
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consider you know really liking a slutty person to kink or really liking a nerdy person to kink or
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really liking a you know we would consider all of these things kinks but the point i'm making here is
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even whiz all of that you could be like yeah but gender is just like a more innate thing in terms of
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who you are right like it just doesn't easily change but now you're in a different position
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which is that gender actually does change throughout your life and it changes based on the way you feel
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about yourself so i decided to i was talking to an ai about this and it was like well same sex attraction
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is different from a kink because same sex attraction is normal and i was like wait a second same
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sex attraction is actually way less frequent than a large number of kinks and hold on i'll actually
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pull up i i love how it responded to that when i was trying to think through this okay so it says
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globally surveys estimate three to seven percent of people identify as primarily attracted to the same
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sex and then it said okay let's compare that to foot fetishes fetishes it found one study found
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18 percent of heterosexual men have it so okay three to seven percent to 18 percent way higher than like
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the highest rates i've seen for for same-sex attraction bdsm and note i'm saying same-sex attraction
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specifically you're not all lgbt the identities bdsm is 10 to 15 again way more common than same-sex
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attraction and then despite it giving examples that were literally orders more common than same-sex
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attraction he said so is same-sex attraction less prevalent not really it's on par or higher with
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many individuals and i'm like but the numbers gave was an order of magnitude more common yeah there's
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got to be something hard-coded there because you've pointed out in in your other ai research that
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these chains like when you're chatting with an ai it references the entire chain even if you're
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asking one question within it said that within the same model response that's so strange again it has
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to be hard-coded it has to be which yeah this was grok right it was grok though grok is a more based
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one yeah recently grok has been super woke they did an update with this new thing like a week and a half
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ago and i've had trouble even having basic discussions with it like it's so woke that i
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asked it about our one civilization theory and it responded with an explanation that didn't really
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include other civilizations like china and stuff like that and i'm like yeah but does he argue at
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any point in the theory that those were not like real civilizations or that those civilizations
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accomplishments when matched for the the position on the timeline were pretty paltry in comparison to the
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one civilization and it was like this is by the way for context the malcolm's one civilization
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theory is one in which he argues that basically there's only really been one meaningful
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civilization contributing to innovation and the advancement of inter-inter-civilizational
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handover innovation so some other civilizations hit sort of like plateaus but they didn't do a good
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job of intergenerationally handing over culture to the next civilizational successor it's a very
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offensive theory it's called there was only ever rome theory go check it out if you want it's
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probably one of our best video but i think this one's going to be one of our good ones too it's a
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little misleading though because it started with greece you argued right no i argued it started with
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egypt then it went to egypt then it went to greece then it went to rome then it went to byzantium then it
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went to the islamic republic then it went to europe then it went to england then it was right around the
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world but anyway to to skip the one civilization theory what the point i was making is it was
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incapable of seeing simone and you remember the transcript of that i had argued that the other
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civilizations were not particularly impressive and it kept arguing that no actually i had made
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the argument i had used other civilizations like china to show that this could happen in multiple
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places at once and i was like no i didn't like and i even like asked it like four times like are you
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sure read it again like are you sure i said that so so it couldn't even see me as saying something
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offensive which i love but anyway so i'm gonna continue going here with the way that this sort
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of breaks out so i started thinking okay given this let's imagine a hypothetical other world right
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and in this world you have attraction to gender which can be along this you know giant gender spectrum
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that they have now in the urban monoculture sure and you can have attraction to furries furries are
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completely normal in this world and like gender when somebody chooses the fursona they might switch
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between a few but in most people it's pretty persistent they they choose a persona based on
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how it reflects in the same way that like when you're choosing from a large number of sort of gender
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profiles how it reflects the way that they see some sort of inner core of who they are and individuals
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within the furry community have attraction to specific species of fursona right and so then i
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started thinking to myself okay so from a first principles perspective in that world right and in
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that world you would have the same problem that we have in our world was getting married which is
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in that world you can't easily just take off your fursona your fursona is something you want to
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live with right you know so you would get married in a fursona and everything i was like how from
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a first principles perspective would you differentiate same-sex attraction
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from fursona attraction and i'll note here the reason why it becomes so problematic if same-sex
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attraction is defined as a kink is then you know you're still culturally normative throughout history
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like like there isn't like a definitive answer for this i'm trying to figure out is what is a practical
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answer to this because throughout history there's been plenty of different ways of relating to gender
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and but what i can say is is nobody's related to gender the way the urban monoculture does that's
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for sure and the way the urban monoculture relates to the idea of transness like that you could want
00:22:01.680
to be under gender so much you would unalive yourself that has never happened in any other
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culture in human history we have no recorded instances of that anywhere we have cultures that allow
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for a variation of gender expression and gender fluidity but never this obsession with an alternate
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gender perspective to the extent where 50 percent attempt to 50 to 40 attempt to unalive themselves
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over it and what i'm pointing out is you you get you get different norms around gender and what we're
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trying to do or what i'm trying to do in this non-experience is to think through okay what what makes
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sense to have as a norm here so in in furry world i was like okay how do you categorize furries as something
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like you're the the furry species you are interested in is something fundamentally different
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from same-sex attraction or attraction to a specific gender profile if urban monoculture is a
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multi-gender profile spectrum and this is where i just had this break and this realization that
00:22:59.360
changed everything for me oh okay there'd be no reason to specifically what i mean is as we move to
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this urban monocultural perception of gender is this like completely fluid thing that you can choose
00:23:12.880
on the day based on your emotional state yeah that actually makes sense that's actually logical
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given the direction that they are going societally speaking and given the way that they structure
00:23:24.480
their lives so the core values which we talked about before is to seek out pleasure and self-affirmation
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insofar as it doesn't interfere with other people seeking out their own pleasure and self-affirmation
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if you have an entire world view both around seeking out pleasure and self-affirmation and
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around helping other people seek out pleasure and affirmation arousal and gender only matter
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in so far as they can be used to give you pleasure right or or affirmation yeah and that's the way that
00:24:03.200
they have categorized sexuality and gender profiles for them same-sex attraction needs to be categorized as
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something fundamentally different from kinks because if kinks are something because like you do it in public
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makes other people uncomfortable and thus violates their right to pursue pleasure right um which is
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bad from an urban monocultural perspective obviously this perspective within the urban monoculture has
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been eroded a bit whether you know because now you do see a lot of very explicit kink stuff at pride
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you see the trans stuff where a lot of it for a lot of people obviously this isn't true for every
00:24:38.960
trans people but it's very obvious this is true for some people who identify as trans is that it's about
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violating other people's consent about forcing people to say and treat them in a way that that
00:24:48.400
person feels uncomfortable with and you can watch our episodes where we document this behavior i think
00:24:53.280
anyone who's trans or knows the trans community is like oh yeah well it's very clear that you know
00:24:57.360
this that some for some trans people that's what it's about and we don't like those people but
00:25:01.200
whatever we're not going to talk about that right now but you can be like oh but why now is it okay to
00:25:05.840
make other people uncomfortable and this is largely because the groups that are seen as more deviant are seen as
00:25:12.240
more deserving of a search for pleasure because they're seen as like higher morally we have an
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episode on why this is the case in the urban monoculture but so so they are allowed to violate
00:25:23.440
other people's consent in regard to this stuff by the way if you're wondering if this episode is at
00:25:28.080
all in relation to the tucker carlson interview or the new studies that have come out to show erosion
00:25:33.760
of same-sex marriage rights and stuff like that this actually has nothing to do with that we recorded
00:25:39.360
this well before all that and we were going to release it over christmas when we weren't recording
00:25:43.040
and now all that has come out so we have to do episodes addressing that and so this episode about
00:25:47.440
us changing our minds on something has to come out before all of that um but if you say the same thing
00:25:52.320
for same-sex attraction well now you have a huge category of people who can't get married and everything
00:25:56.400
like that right so you say oh well we're going to carve this out even though two men kissing or two women
00:26:03.440
kissing does make a large percentage of the population uncomfortable especially people who
00:26:08.400
are not in the urban monoculture right yeah although i would argue it probably makes a lot of them
00:26:15.360
uncomfortable too i i say this as somebody who grew up with like a predominantly gay friend group
00:26:20.160
my roommate in high school was gay my best friend in college was gay my academic dad in college was gay
00:26:28.000
around a lot of gay people and that's also why i had some trouble really you know because i have so
00:26:32.240
many gay friends being like yeah but i i really want to rethink like like try to rethink this from
00:26:37.520
a first principles perspective that's not just about defending a status quo in which my friends don't
00:26:44.080
need to think about yeah but is this really the best way to be doing things and so but i can't say
00:26:48.880
was all of that acceptance of gayness in my life i still felt weird i i would never say it for fear
00:26:55.440
of persecution but i still felt like a when i saw you know two guys making out or something like that
00:27:01.840
and i and i think that that's just probably a natural hard-coded thing in a lot of guys and
00:27:06.720
it might be hard-coded and a lot of women but well i mean think just being a kid just seeing anyone
00:27:12.080
do it you're like oh you know it's yeah but i don't think anyone kissing is weird i don't necessarily
00:27:18.720
feel that way when i see attractive males and females kissing oh i do i i can't stand the sound
00:27:26.080
of people kissing but actually this brings up a good point because you have varying sexual profiles and
00:27:30.560
as we've always argued disgust should be considered a valid part of somebody's sexual profile
00:27:35.200
even though it's not right now it's not just what arouses you what disgusts you and you're saying
00:27:38.880
that you don't like seeing any pda which yeah or even like on on a movie like the sound of people kissing
00:27:47.120
oh like just thinking about it but when i started thinking about it from the perspective of the urban
00:27:52.240
monoculture i was like oh my god this actually makes perfect sips right if life is about a pursuit of
00:27:59.840
pleasure not interfering with other people's pursuit of pleasure then it doesn't matter
00:28:04.640
whether arousal pattern is tied to procreation it doesn't matter whether arousal pattern was tied to
00:28:10.800
evolution or something that randomly happened to you that would be a silly way to see things
00:28:16.720
because procreation is just not a particularly important part of life right and then i began to
00:28:22.960
think about this within the next era that we are going into and this is why the furry analogy really
00:28:27.840
messed up my brain right because i was like okay so we're going into an era in which the people
00:28:36.720
you interact with predominantly like is on discord servers is on youtube is on comment sections is on
00:28:42.720
twitter is on x everything like that and we are already seeing a large number of them and this is
00:28:49.120
true with people i interact with with business or anything like that using avatars that are non-human
00:28:55.760
to represent themselves these avatars can be anything from furries to anime characters to
00:29:02.560
you know custom whatevers this has become completely normal when i think of some of my friends the first
00:29:10.560
image that comes to my head is not their face but their avatar so true i know their face i interact
00:29:18.800
with them more through their avatar than through their face and so that's what comes to mind
00:29:22.720
as we enter an era of ai you you guys have seen how good this technology is already imagine where
00:29:30.640
it's going to be for our kids generation right they're going to be able to have first owners if
00:29:36.320
they want them or anime characters or completely alternate biologies if they want them be the way
00:29:41.520
that they present themselves to other people and because of that when they're when they're interacting with
00:29:48.320
somebody online or they're talking to somebody online those people will see them not necessarily
00:29:53.840
as a gender but would their gender even matter then if they're not going to meet in person right
00:29:59.360
and they're just getting off to other people online from the perspective of the urban monoculture
00:30:02.640
if you can just change gender with a button if you can just change to be a furry with a button
00:30:08.560
and everyone is like well we haven't gotten nearly to the point where you're going to get hafted
00:30:11.680
feedback from these sorts of scenarios and it's like how long do you think that's going to take if ai really
00:30:16.960
does start to foom like be realistic here people the the the pleasure pods the digital realms are
00:30:24.160
coming meta may have jumped the shark on that a little early and even if it's not within our kids
00:30:29.360
generation it will certainly be within our grandkids generation you know we're just talking about you
00:30:34.960
know a few generations here right like and this this changes if arousal is categorized in specific
00:30:42.960
ways and if the reason we had to carve out same-sex patterns as being different than other
00:30:46.640
patterns what's the specific arousal pathways could be pursued there's no longer a reason to do that
00:30:52.640
now in fact what you should do is and i think we're already seeing the left do this i think that
00:30:58.320
this is where the proliferation of gender profiles came from i think the proliferation of gender profiles
00:31:05.120
within the urban monoculture is a prelude to the normalization of alternate online pseudonymities
00:31:13.520
you know and and saying that is who i really am right like i really am skylar the fox sometimes and
00:31:21.840
i really am you know becca the anime girl sometimes i'm not good at coming up with names like this but
00:31:28.880
you you get the idea so are you following me so far like the urban monocultural's trajectory
00:31:33.680
actually makes sense that i think i can project where it's going next just to like if i'm getting this
00:31:39.680
right almost total abstraction and absurdity i don't think it's absurdity it follows a logically
00:31:47.200
consistent format from their perspective to them life is about the pursuit of pleasure and self-affirmation
00:31:54.160
so long as you do not interfere with others pursuit of pleasure and self-affirmation and if you take that
00:32:01.440
perspective and somebody wants to identify with a fox right like character like how are you actually
00:32:08.640
doing a good thing by saying no you're not allowed to do that okay especially when the technology makes
00:32:14.160
it incredibly easy like think about the way that they would argue this if somebody's like hey you
00:32:18.880
know you know you're not actually that and they'd be like you know i find that really dissociating when
00:32:23.520
you say that like it honestly it really hurts my feelings right you get a generation of argument
00:32:28.480
around this and it's the next big fad that goes big right you know and we've seen sort of prodromal
00:32:34.560
stuff around this within like therians or other kin or like alternate sexual profiles but basically
00:32:39.680
i'm saying it's going in that direction now it going in that direction left a lot of the same sex
00:32:44.640
community behind right because when gender isn't something you're born with and a lesbian which you
00:32:51.440
know i believe some people are born was like disgust towards male genitalia because i have
00:32:56.880
disgust towards male genitalia so i i would assume that some women are born that way right you know
00:33:02.160
and they say i don't like that and then somebody's like yeah but i identify as a woman and this is
00:33:05.680
lady d right so you're being transphobic by saying this like it has completely left behind that component
00:33:11.280
of the community it's completely left behind the gay man who's like you know if you can just identify
00:33:16.080
as any gender you feel like in the moment then the very idea of being gay or same-sex attracted no
00:33:22.960
longer has a carve out among other kings right like there's no longer a logical reason to carve
00:33:27.840
it out in the way that we did historically but so they're they're sort of left behind and so we'll
00:33:31.760
address this community in a second but then i started to think about it's like okay that's the
00:33:36.160
way the urban monoculture is framing things but of course if you view life as a pursuit of pleasure
00:33:40.080
and self-affirmation eventually the cultures that do that are going to die out right because there's
00:33:44.720
no way you can be above repopulation fertility rate and have those sorts of pursuits or or interests
00:33:50.640
right and we've also seen the and you can watch many of our episodes on this the massive negative
00:33:55.760
psychological effects living that type of lifestyle has you the closer you are to the urban monoculture
00:34:00.480
the closer you are to these sorts of groups and identifications the higher rates you have of many
00:34:05.600
negative psychological whether it's depression or unaliving rates or self-hatred or you know mental
00:34:12.240
illnesses or or really anything else okay before i get to the next thing any thoughts simone
00:34:17.120
no keep going by the way but i convinced you so far you think this is a good theory so far
00:34:21.680
plausible yes plausible okay so then i was thinking okay so when i'm raising my kids right
00:34:26.640
because i've always been like oh there's the same-sex attracted we would say is okay well you
00:34:30.240
know pursue same-sex attraction if you want insofar as you can still have kids right or a large number
00:34:36.320
of kids and you've pointed out that you know if we have a lesbian daughter a lesbian can actually
00:34:39.920
have twice as many kids if they make a rule that they only do insemination from their biological
00:34:44.560
relatives by this what i mean is they would be inseminated by their partner's brother's semen
00:34:51.600
their partners would and they're well no that their partners would be by theirs and when they're
00:34:55.840
pregnant they're inseminated by their partner's brother's semen so the kids are all at least 25
00:35:01.200
percent theirs um and this would allow them to have kids at twice the rate um because both women could
00:35:07.040
be pregnant at the same time presumably um and a lot of people are like who would want that if simone
00:35:12.080
and i were both women we would both be pregnant all the time yeah i would be pumping out kids so
00:35:17.760
fast you have no idea if our kids have the same predilections we do i remember you would freaking
00:35:22.160
hate being pregnant so much one pro natalist lesbian who was like yeah i was trying to explain the logic
00:35:29.120
of this to my girlfriend and she just thought it was really weird and then we ended up breaking up
00:35:33.760
she's like no but you understand i understand it's my brother and that's weird from like societal
00:35:39.840
standards but it would be 25 my kid right yeah like it only makes sense it's it's so weird to me that
00:35:49.680
lesbians who had siblings would have their partner if their partner was being the the gestational like
00:35:57.280
egg donor and carrier consider anything but the the person's brother if they have right but we're
00:36:06.080
going to ignore all of that for a second package that up put it to the side if you're building a
00:36:10.320
culture for intergenerational transmission that is designed to be you you so if your culture treats
00:36:18.560
people in a way that just feels fundamentally unfair to other people so let's now talk about the the
00:36:24.800
dangers of same-sex attraction prohibitions for a culture that wants to intergenerationally replicate
00:36:29.680
and survive the biggest danger of same-sex around bands or you know sort of prohibitions against this
00:36:36.400
as a culture is it can feel arbitrary and cruel to youth growing up within that culture and it can lead
00:36:43.520
them to feel that that culture is not benevolent or caring which can be used to deconvert them but you
00:36:50.320
see a lot with with mormons oh you see with even even in almost especially when the mormons themselves
00:36:58.320
who deconverted and talk about this are not gay which is really interesting yeah because they're
00:37:02.880
like i had x gay for any with a perfectly nice person i didn't understand why he was so shamed by
00:37:09.120
my culture right you you know it's more like oh i saw that they said you should do this if you're gay
00:37:16.000
and i can't believe they said that which is also odd i don't know right but the point being is the
00:37:22.560
urban monoculture has evolved to get be very very good and it's one of the reasons why it focuses on
00:37:27.520
all this weird gender stuff which you might be like why is it when gay same-sex attractive people are
00:37:33.120
such a small percentage of the population why is the urban monoculture so obsessed with it why is it
00:37:36.640
so obsessed with the trans thing and it's because it can use those wedge issues to deconvert people
00:37:42.480
by making your more traditionalist culture seem arbitrary and cruel yeah and so you know if you're
00:37:47.600
building a culture from scratch and you build what can seem like an arbitrary rule against you know
00:37:52.080
same-sex attraction or something like that or or categorization of it your kids can be like hey
00:37:57.120
that just seems like mean like i don't want to be part of a culture that's like that right so be aware
00:38:02.240
that there are there are costs to this within a modern context that didn't exist in a historic context
00:38:06.720
you can be like you know no nobody in the medieval period was like well that just seems pretty mean
00:38:11.440
i've got a you know a gay friend greg over here right you know um so this this is where we are
00:38:17.840
right now in sort of my chain of logic so then i was like okay
00:38:24.320
so what if i took a position that was completely alternative to the urban monoculture and i was
00:38:29.520
like oh my god as soon as i had the thought i was like this is the only meaningful sexual
00:38:35.520
differentiator in humans it's not gay versus straight and this is the way that we should view
00:38:41.840
sexual differentiation in the future which is is arousal and sexuality to you like the way that you
00:38:51.840
have chosen to relate to it about procreation or is it about pleasure and self-affirmation
00:39:01.280
so what i'm saying here is the actual meaningful difference between individuals is not whatever
00:39:13.040
arousal profile they happen to have been born with or even the exact way that they choose to live their
00:39:19.600
lifestyle it is the way they relate to sexuality in the first place the way they relate to arousal in the
00:39:27.680
first place because that is downstream of a chosen metaphysical or world perspective
00:39:33.600
that no longer feels arbitrary when you tell your kids oh we think lesser of people who adopt this
00:39:41.920
style of living so if i tell my kids you know all of these things these these arousal profiles this is
00:39:47.840
how they work this is how they they are different within people but at the end of the day the way
00:39:52.720
that we as a culture choose to relate to them is to say there are some that we can utilize to motivate
00:40:00.880
reproduction and then the rest are meaningfully kinks which is to say that within my context or within
00:40:08.880
my culture i would say because i think that this is safer to do in terms of not having your kids pulled
00:40:12.560
out of your culture instead of vilifying them just be like you may have them you may not don't let them
00:40:19.600
determine your identity don't let them get you into situations that could negatively affect your
00:40:25.520
health or affect your career or life and do not let them become obsessions for you okay yeah i'm an
00:40:32.480
obsession for you because some people are like well some people just can't control themselves around
00:40:35.360
porn then naltrexone and you'll be able to control yourself yeah totally uh you can medicate this
00:40:41.120
yeah so the point i'm making here is to say i would tell my kids it is not necessarily same-sex
00:40:50.480
attraction that you are shaming it is anyone who has chosen to live a lifestyle where sexuality
00:40:57.280
is either a form of identity because there is no reason to make your arousal profile your identity
00:41:03.680
or a source of self-affirmation because there is no reason to search for self-affirmation in something
00:41:08.960
that you didn't personally choose you know if it's just who you're born as then and you don't
00:41:13.840
have any sort of like history with it then it's there's no reason for that to give you you know
00:41:18.480
pride over other people and is it what was the final one here is it something that that's related to
00:41:24.720
just pleasure right because all of those things are downstream of the urban monoculture's way
00:41:28.240
of relating to sexuality and gender right and then i would say and then on the other hand you have people
00:41:35.120
who have chosen to say okay this that arouses me i may be able to because this technology progresses
00:41:44.960
i may be able to utilize these arousal pathways to help me form a stable cohabitating family unit right
00:41:54.080
but in large part it's probably going to be easier at least with the technology that we have today
00:41:59.760
even if you are same-sex attracted to be in a non-same-sex attracted relationship and if you
00:42:05.680
choose to not do that that's like a totally valid choice for my in terms of like how to relate to my
00:42:11.120
kids to not seem capricious and how i would lay down the rules but understand that you are you like
00:42:16.160
more is going to be expected from you and the workload that you are going to undertake in exchange for the
00:42:23.920
the pleasure and compatibility you get to be with a partner who is maximally arousing to you which is
00:42:29.600
a trade-off that many men make right like i'd be like i i would have no more disdain for you if you
00:42:37.600
made these decisions than if your brother for example married some super hot girl who told him she was
00:42:45.280
never going to have any kids yeah and there's a lot of girls like that out there right like that's a
00:42:50.160
very common compromise that people make if anything if you marry a guy and he plans to try to have lots
00:42:57.760
of kids that's better than the person who indulgently marries a girl who says i'm not going to try to
00:43:02.960
have any other kids but it's probably better in most cases that you just you know masturbate when
00:43:11.440
you're going to masturbate and and suck it up in regards to your relationship honestly you know
00:43:17.840
does this recategorization of sexuality into not gay versus straight but in regards to how you relate
00:43:26.480
to your arousal patterns more broadly better because i think it it better categorizes everyone
00:43:31.920
who's who's really on our broader team into one category and everyone who's off our team into another
00:43:38.800
category and it also helps differentiate our category from the urban monoculture so this doesn't
00:43:45.760
mean that you are not of this category if you don't have kids or if you choose a life where you don't have
00:43:50.640
kids it's more about how you relate to arousal and pleasure more broadly you can decide that your
00:43:56.800
life is better spent in service to the future of humanity through taking on an endeavor or a pathway
00:44:02.560
that prevents you from having kids but is still not dedicated to pleasure it's basically is your life
00:44:08.160
dedicated to pleasure is pleasure how you identify who you are like is the things that give you pleasure
00:44:13.920
your core sense of identity or do you internally calculate them as vices that subtract from your
00:44:20.640
purpose and here what i mean is anything that subtracts from your mission in life to somebody
00:44:25.680
with this mindset is a vice you know whether that is sleeping in or collecting warhammer cards or
00:44:33.680
masturbating too frequently or having sex and spending a large amount of time securing sexual partners
00:44:39.600
are the things that give you pleasure your core sense of identity and what's really cool about
00:44:44.560
this is this means that somebody who primarily identifies as like a magic the gathering hobbyist
00:44:50.560
would be seen as equally bad as somebody who primarily identifies as a furry whereas somebody who does
00:44:58.480
either of these things recreationally and understands that they are wasting their time and that the
00:45:04.160
short amount of time they have on earth while doing them but is like yeah but i wouldn't be able to
00:45:09.120
focus as hard on the stuff that really does matter if i didn't let loose occasionally you know you can
00:45:14.080
be totally on this side of this divide while having a preference for either of these things it's just how
00:45:20.320
you relate to them so if if i were to articulate this slightly differently it would basically just be
00:45:26.080
like okay is your is your are your sexual is your desired sexual lifestyle going to stop you from
00:45:34.320
pre-producing and having a flourishing family if yes we don't support it if no go for it buddy is that
00:45:43.360
is that kind of it i i i would say it's a little like that's that's i guess the the weakest way of
00:45:50.320
wording it which is you know you're saying is it not going to be incompatible is what i would say is
00:45:56.240
positive because the thing about kinks right is you know you may use a kink to get off or something
00:46:04.560
like that but that's an indulgent waste of time and you know that like if you have a correct way of
00:46:11.840
of relating to what i'd say like if you if you relate to sexuality in the way that i would say is
00:46:16.160
the correct way to relate to sexuality you would understand that that's just as bad as sitting in front
00:46:22.720
of a sports game and having a drink or watching you know anime or playing video games or arguing
00:46:31.920
with someone online when you know you're never going to change their mind yeah or troll posting
00:46:37.120
when you know it's not it doesn't have like a specific agenda anything you are doing for the
00:46:42.560
sake of you know pleasure or addictive pathways or anything like that it's it's all in that same
00:46:48.080
category maybe not higher or lower but it's all in that same category indulgence right and to dedicate
00:46:55.920
your life to an indulgence of that category and this is where i see you know arousal patterns in
00:47:02.480
life dedicated to them probably pretty differently than a lot of conservatives where they might see
00:47:08.800
a person who you know dedicates their entire life to like their their fetish and you know they're going
00:47:16.480
to what's that fulsome street fair and you know they all the the weird fetish gear and this is like
00:47:22.800
everything about their life and they see them as a significantly higher category of degeneracy
00:47:28.480
than say somebody who spends all of their money and free time on warhammer paraphernalia and has a
00:47:34.880
giant like warhammer setup in their room or or the model train sets or
00:47:41.680
audience here equally objectionable equally objectionable yeah because it's something that has
00:47:46.480
no possibility of contributing to civilization so instead of like spectrums of gay to straight
00:47:52.800
they are spectrums of contributes to human flourishing versus doesn't yeah well not contributes
00:48:00.160
to but that's the way that they structure their their lives in their relation to their own arousal and
00:48:04.720
sexuality i don't know what you mean exactly by that i mean because what does warhammer have to do with
00:48:10.880
your relation to okay their lives in their own pleasure pathways okay sort of what what they do
00:48:19.520
for for fulfillment in life yes and then people can be like well what about like biblical stuff because
00:48:26.000
we've said you know we we follow biblical stuff as well and i'd be like yeah but that's like an
00:48:29.600
additional category that i apply to my family right like the the biblical perspective on things like
00:48:36.480
like when i'm telling my kids you shouldn't do x or y i think if i over rely i'd be like there is
00:48:42.160
a biblical argument for this but we're not going to lean on the biblical argument for this because
00:48:47.120
it will seem capricious within a modern setting we are going to lean on this secondary argument for
00:48:52.080
this and to live a life that is in line with biblical principles somebody can be like well this is
00:48:57.760
totally different from just saying i'm going to live a life that's in service to the next generation
00:49:02.320
right to me i might say this person is like closer to my tribe if they do that but i'm not going to
00:49:09.280
say that i am incompatible with aligning my objectives and goals with the other person
00:49:15.200
or i would do something that capriciously impeded their lifestyle so that would be my differentiator
00:49:20.960
there especially as we move into an environment where the technology for having children changes
00:49:28.080
the the gender compatibilities of individuals yeah but i mean in a sense it's only going to get worse
00:49:37.600
i guess you could say so well no it's going to get the the the so i think you're going to see two
00:49:43.440
things happen the hedonistic pathway is going to become even harder to resist because of all of the
00:49:50.800
new things you can be was in an online context i actually think it was your time did a very good
00:49:56.480
job of this when you've been watching so much of that with the kids when bmo is in the you know
00:50:01.760
virtual world and everybody has their like weird avatar and their you know upgrade it with points
00:50:06.400
and stuff like this and this is how they identify and present themselves to everyone else and it just
00:50:09.680
becomes weird and abstracted and everything like you said right well who let these two system dumps
00:50:15.440
into the chat room know what i'm saying vinnie can you hook my friend up with some bmo brand effies
00:50:22.640
this super skid costs 15 million crypto coins give it to me vinnie
00:50:33.200
i'm beautiful yeah i don't think it's going to become weird and abstracted because these people
00:50:38.240
are still going to be human and they're still going to have human arousal pathways and so they're
00:50:41.360
going to act like and look like all of the sexiest things from the human yeah a few of them will
00:50:46.080
dress as weird abstracted you know to do you know the way do do you know the way to the what is it
00:50:52.640
to the devil or whatever you don't know the way do you know the way you have to have ebola to know the
00:51:00.480
way i have ebola it doesn't do the way what's a it has to do with ebola
00:51:10.160
ebola it's the way so anyway so the the i think the vast majority of people are going to dress as
00:51:16.240
something that they see as arousing to other people because being human they want to imagine themselves
00:51:21.760
as arousing to the the individuals who they have a sexual attraction to right like the gender they
00:51:29.200
have a sexual attraction to and so or the multiple genders or whatever right but but they're they
00:51:34.240
want to see themselves as attractive to that i often use ai to solicit feedback on my episodes
00:51:39.280
and i absolutely loved one of the lines that it came up with the urban monoculture already treats
00:51:44.800
gender as a mood not a chromosome once high fidelity avatars haptic suits and eventual direct neural
00:51:50.400
interfaces are normal i'm a girl and i'm a dragon fox with three tails and glowing neon genitals become
00:51:57.520
functionally indistinguishable claims at that point the old progressive argument same-sex attraction is
00:52:02.320
not a kink because it's an immutable orientation towards the natural category gender simply evaporates
00:52:08.400
and so i think we're not going to see a total abstraction we will see a total
00:52:12.800
hedonization of avatar profiles uh which i think in a large part we sort of already have seen i mean look
00:52:19.280
at the vtubers and stuff like that come on man nobody very few people but we have huge overlap with this
00:52:24.000
one guy who does a vtube as a troll he's like a romanian guy and he's got a very honest yes yes
00:52:31.120
yeah so that's that's where i think that that culture is going um and i think that broadly i can
00:52:36.880
find common ground with anybody who is dedicating their lives and their actions to something larger
00:52:47.440
than self-affirmation and pleasure and i will find a degree of contention as i've already mentioned
00:52:55.200
but i i think it's it's only it's it's right now sort of long-term contention rather than a
00:52:59.520
contention sort of for for the person in the moment alliances with with individuals who are optimizing for
00:53:06.480
something other than long-term human flourishing but yeah thoughts i like this i mean i really i think
00:53:14.640
the important thing really is okay i'm i don't think it's logically inconsistent that people on a
00:53:24.240
biblical basis object to certain sexual proclivities that is fine but i think in terms of our particular
00:53:31.520
techno puritan religious framework it has to instead of being more necessarily to
00:53:40.240
i think a lot of biblical norms which have are more like bits of dust that were picked
00:53:45.360
up by the rolling meatball that is the bible you know like there's a lot of stuff
00:53:48.800
biblical norms are meant to be understood why did these norms exist within their
00:53:52.400
a lot of things just got tacked on to various religious texts over time as like here's this thing
00:53:57.680
we do and also this thing you know helps to reduce disease spread this thing helps to do you know
00:54:02.160
a lot of the things that got picked up as religious traditions got picked up because they
00:54:07.120
largely help to reduce disease spread or or help society in living in larger and larger
00:54:12.480
civilizational formats larger cities etc survive and i think if you want to look at it from a techno
00:54:19.440
puritan perspective we take a look at this from a meta perspective and say okay what were all those
00:54:24.240
things really for though and they were for promoting long-term human flourishing and growth
00:54:30.320
so when we ask is this particular hobby or indulgence or or sexuality or whatever good or bad does it
00:54:40.240
contribute to long-term human flourishing and the answer is no any anything that you do not do for
00:54:46.000
for god is a sin like yeah there's also i mean i think if you extend it to other sins
00:54:51.600
like sloth or avarice or pride you know all these things are really related to that as well i would
00:54:59.440
say i mean you were talking for example about excessive online commentary just to try to like
00:55:04.400
you know change someone's mind who's never going to change their mind you know all these things i think
00:55:09.120
are are you you can kind of connect them to the seven deadly sins if you want to and and and those
00:55:16.400
really have to do with like hey you're not you're not serving god you're not serving human flourishing
00:55:22.240
or the future of humanity by doing this thing i think was in the existing world the seven deadly sins
00:55:28.160
well they still can be useful in calling out like hey maybe pride is not a good thing yeah a better
00:55:34.400
framework is to understand whether or not you're doing something to fulfill some sort of like biological
00:55:39.440
pathway like some sort of opioid pathway or are you doing it because it is in the best interest
00:55:46.080
of you know we associate god with future human flourishing because it is in the best interest of
00:55:51.200
god and obviously you can associate god with something else but i was like anyone you know when
00:55:54.800
they're arguing with somebody online and they know they're never going to convince the person thinks
00:55:58.160
they're doing that for god or when they're buying warhammer figurines or when they're watching a sports
00:56:02.800
game or when they're you know which would mean all of those things they said yeah yeah okay i like that
00:56:10.960
i mean i i yeah i i like that it is good it is favorable so you're saying that like if you had a son
00:56:20.080
who was totally gay you would probably recommend a heterosexual lifestyle and then just like gay porn and
00:56:28.480
you know bath houses or whatever and i'd say well minus the bath houses this isn't that different
00:56:33.920
than the way things were done from like the 1950s to well as far back as i'm aware in western civilization
00:56:40.800
this isn't like some radical idea we were able to live fairly fine and same-sex attracted people were
00:56:48.080
able to live fairly fine with this normalized so i don't have a problem suggesting that and so now you
00:56:54.400
might be saying well the urban monoculture just can't deal with a concept like that you know
00:56:59.040
a person not having what arouses them be given to them they think it's the right of people and i'm
00:57:03.360
like no no no no they think it's a right of attractive people they think it's a right of attractive men
00:57:08.320
the urban monoculture recognizes perfectly well there are hundreds of millions of men who are just
00:57:14.000
born not attractive enough or not intelligent enough or without the social charisma to get a
00:57:19.600
partner and it derides them it calls them incels and they don't deserve to act on their arousal and
00:57:26.800
not only that but they're supposed to be fine and emotionally healthy why is it okay and this is a
00:57:31.600
much larger population than the gay population of the united states the incel population why why are we
00:57:35.920
okay saying that they don't need to have their arousal pathways fulfilled and that's perfectly an easy
00:57:41.440
and okay thing for them to live with but gay people know they have a right to have their arousal
00:57:48.000
pathways filled and again i'm i'm i take the position of if you want to culturally normalize
00:57:53.680
this do it's not my goal to get in your culture's biz about this but the arguments that they make
00:58:01.680
for why gays should be able to live this way should also apply to incels and they often don't and the
00:58:07.200
fact that they dehumanize incels on top of all of this that they a population that is by the way sees a
00:58:13.920
pretty woman doesn't act on it doesn't skis on them that is suppressing their arousal patterns
00:58:19.680
that this population is degraded it's shocking to me but it shows that there is an inherent caste
00:58:26.240
system where the urban monoculture really only considers attractive men or it's only when they
00:58:30.880
are deprived of their path towards pleasure has a grave injustice taken place and you absolutely see
00:58:36.480
this where they're like can you imagine what it would be like to go your whole life without being
00:58:42.480
able to act on your arousal pattern it's like yeah that's that's literally this other group that
00:58:48.160
you mock deride and dehumanize the incel population now people will be like no no no this is about love
00:58:55.760
and i point out here no it's not about love no it's not you could love somebody without them being
00:59:00.240
arousing to you everybody knows this everybody knows it in fact we even laud that as a society you
00:59:06.080
somebody's wife gets like burnt up in a fire and she's horribly disfigured and he he loves her that's
00:59:10.880
that's that's amazing shallow hell you know you're you're with somebody despite the way that they
00:59:17.520
look not being arousing to anyone despite just not being arousing to you and it is actually sort of
00:59:22.080
even gross to gay people to say this that a same-sex attracted person is only able to love people of
00:59:29.280
their own gender that's not a thing no love is not a gendered thing you you you the love emotion just
00:59:36.880
doesn't work that way even though they've made up all these like a romantic whatever everybody knows
00:59:43.040
you can fall in love with anyone and this is because and we have an episode on this with a
00:59:47.200
lots and lots of receipts romantic love as an emotional set is mostly a myth and that the reality
00:59:54.960
of the situation is is that love is a choice it is about the way you choose to treat the other people
01:00:00.320
in your life and you choose to contextualize the other people in your life anyway i appreciate it
01:00:07.120
i love you well i just think you need to recontextualize a lot of this stuff was in a
01:00:11.680
modern context if you want to keep your kids right because if things seem capricious it's going to be
01:00:18.160
very hard to keep your kids within your cultural context you bet yeah yeah yeah and and and i think
01:00:27.840
more than ever people have to think extremely careful about any rule that can be construed as
01:00:34.000
arbitrary um or that like i guess a very very common and wise parenting advice is you need to
01:00:41.440
very carefully choose your battles and choose what hell you want to die on and you could only choose
01:00:46.560
like a couple a very small number of things or a very like just a single or one or two
01:00:52.640
uh core operating principles and stick to them and so i like this for that reason it's good yeah
01:01:00.080
oh by the way something i always hate when people say because nuck said this recently and
01:01:03.760
i was a little disappointed oh no this was his opinion on same-sex marriage and he's like well
01:01:08.640
i think same-sex marriage should be illegal because i think that marriage should only be
01:01:14.320
a religious institution right like that it should only be through the church and i'm like
01:01:17.520
yeah it's a common argument no it is a common argument but it's a libertarian cop-out because
01:01:22.320
no libertarian actually fights for that i've never seen any serious politician actually fight to make
01:01:28.000
marriage only and solely a religious institution i believe it should be but even if you made it only
01:01:34.560
and solely a religious institution it wouldn't really change anything in our society because tons
01:01:39.440
of christian churches would be marrying gay people tons of jewish churches would be marrying gay people
01:01:43.840
tons of people you you would functionally change nothing from society today to that society so it
01:01:52.080
allows you to sound like you're taking the conservative position without actually taking a meaningful stance
01:02:00.240
okay i see that is a fair point yeah you can't just be like it's religious because
01:02:05.840
i mean like half of the religions that you would guess would not then marry gay couples have like
01:02:12.640
pride flags not even pride flags progress flags hanging outside them so i mean you have done
01:02:19.280
nothing i i generally like that but i mentioned that because i was disappointed i was like come on man
01:02:24.320
that's a that's a lame take anyway love you i love you too okay i'm gonna really quickly fill his
01:02:31.520
milk bottle you look great and i just love that ralph florin oh jacket is something jacket well it looks
01:02:39.280
a little libertarian it goes with our vibe these days right you know gotta well it also it's very
01:02:43.120
on trend although like in a in the not on trend way because apparently the the trend of christmas decor
01:02:49.600
this year is ralph lauren christmas everyone on tiktok is on about the ralph lauren christmas you
01:02:56.080
gotta throw away your gingerbread themed christmas decorations because you're doing ralph lauren this year
01:03:01.920
all these people who worked at ralph lauren stores are chiming in to talk about ralph lauren's christmas
01:03:10.720
decorating rules because there were a lot of them really yeah i mean like no green wreaths no no
01:03:19.760
presents under the tree that were not boxes and all the same wrapping paper either you know the reverse
01:03:27.200
pattern or the main pattern that actually does sound like it's very aesthetically appealing oh yeah
01:03:31.920
no like it's it's all plaids and you know matching basically like what a lot of people's
01:03:37.920
takes on this are is that ralph lauren christmas is just like literally freaking traditional christmas
01:03:43.360
like red and green and plaid and you can't do anything traditional that sounds like it might be for nazis
01:03:48.400
well yeah because well there's a lot of gatekeeping people are are shaming all the gray
01:03:53.440
millennials and they're like you and your disgusting gray millennial house aren't allowed
01:03:58.000
to have ralph lauren christmas because you chose your gray millennial house and there's all these
01:04:04.480
you know former ralph lauren associates ralph lauren christmas our our home isn't it's more like
01:04:10.240
the home alone house is is is framed as the ralph lauren christmas they destroyed it and made it
01:04:16.400
gray millennial house oh yes that's oh man the before and after photos are the most devastating
01:04:22.400
forget photos of gaza people home alone house okay so what did you think of the video today what
01:04:30.400
was it i mean did you did you get today's video i got the comments yeah the the most common comment
01:04:36.640
we got like at least four of these it surprised me is that people are saying that this is a
01:04:43.120
40 trump move a 40 chess move on behalf of trump in that he has explicitly stated in the past and i
01:04:51.200
do actually recall him saying this that the democrats are always going to do the opposite
01:04:54.960
of what he says he wants and so he acted like he didn't want the epstein files released so the
01:04:59.280
democrats back themselves if he actually did that and and if the epstein files get released and there's
01:05:06.000
like literally nothing on him as it appears there is it could be it could be yeah and then other people
01:05:13.280
are like yeah and the only reason why he might have wanted to hold on to the trump or sorry the epstein
01:05:18.320
files for longer is because he would want to actually you will say unholster them during the
01:05:23.760
midterms so there are definitely there's a narrative where this all makes a lot of sense i don't know
01:05:30.320
if that's true or not obviously we can't know because we're not in trump's mind but i like i like that
01:05:36.560
i like it all right all right oh how did the video do by the way not well eight of ten eight of ten
01:05:45.360
hmm simone that turkey's looking very nice it was our favorite price free coupon turkey
01:06:04.000
so and i've got bad news for you you may be a trad wife because i'm making sourdough and turkey
01:06:11.360
in my sourdough basket like while we have last night's sourdough are you gonna are you gonna
01:06:16.240
show off your well the kids actually went through a lot of it so i'm happy
01:06:23.520
good times all right let's get this bird back in
01:06:27.360
but it's pretty good right it's gonna be lovely butter boysen sauce that you found a recipe for
01:06:41.280
it's so weird that you used to be like this hipster girl and yet everything you're
01:07:06.560
this is what i want everything you're doing now is so hipster i wanted yeah i wanted the the blue
01:07:11.680
egg chickens and the sourdough and the yeah all that stuff and the really funny thing is that
01:07:18.480
i i would bake things on the weekends and then i wouldn't want to eat them because i'm like i don't
01:07:22.240
want to eat this stuff like i don't i can't eat it all by myself so now i just have a bunch of kids like
01:07:37.600
it's literally the sound they make when they eat
01:07:47.280
oh yeah i gotta show the fans we use uh what did i use for this one you know one of the ai image
01:07:52.640
sites for pictures of our kids what oh the ai yeah yeah yeah and this is what we used to film when the
01:07:57.840
channel started oh god you're right yeah you told them here yeah let me go upstairs then
01:08:15.120
yeah yeah yeah thanksgiving so dad's with the kids all day
01:08:18.320
oh my god are any of them still guys is this a mess
01:09:12.000
because mommy's gonna cook you up like a turkey if you don't
01:09:19.680
thank you sweetheart i really appreciate it i love you a lot
01:09:23.040
are you guys watching cartoons yeah i found a thanksgiving run from the 1996
01:09:41.440
are you playing among us octavian what are you working on
01:09:48.000
oh god i just want to get on making my video oh okay
01:09:52.960
yeah i'm losing tiktok okay i don't know i'm not