In this episode, we discuss the concept of "us vs. them" in our society, and how it applies to the video game, Mass Effect 3. We discuss the morality behind the choices in the game, and why gamers tend to choose the choice that they see as more "right".
00:00:00.000like you can't just invite somebody into your society without them agreeing to any conditions
00:00:04.840you know to have no shared culture and no conditions at all and just well and once it
00:00:12.340wasn't even that anymore it was also though like okay but at least you you promised to follow the
00:00:18.340law like to to adhere to our rules and laws yeah what's so interesting about the current divide
00:00:24.820between Democrats and Republicans in the United States is that right now, it seems to be boiling
00:00:31.340down to whether or not we are going to enforce laws. So now it's not even, we don't expect you
00:00:38.740to adhere to our culture. It's, we don't even expect at least these privileged groups to adhere
00:00:43.900to our actual laws. Would you like to know more? Hello, Simone. It's exciting to be here with you
00:00:50.040today today we are going to be going back into the concept of us versus them in our society
00:01:00.020and the reason i want to dive into it is because it's not like okay you're a random conservative
00:01:05.160influencer out there and you're going to be like yeah we should be more us versus them in the way
00:01:10.480that we see reality um which is true but how do you define us is us you know americans is us people
00:01:21.040who are genetically similar to you is us some sort of ethnicity is us a religion or a cluster
00:01:28.200of religions and so this matters a lot how how we think about this and i'm going to point out during
00:01:33.520this if you try to build a world without an us and a them you in every scenario are eventually
00:01:40.920eradicated and the reason this is something that often comes up in conversations that i have in a
00:01:49.460reality fabricator or rfab.ai are like chatbot site because one of my favorite chatbot stories
00:01:55.320to play is an ambassador for the terran empire going to meet with the sort of gay space communists
00:02:02.940of the Federation and having diplomatic discussions with them was obviously the goal of being
00:02:08.340eradicating them. And so I have to discuss, you know, why their values don't actually work long
00:02:15.100term and always lend to more conflict and suffering. But I want to get to how cooked
00:02:21.800this actually is as a concept. Okay. So there's a video game, Mass Effect 3. And I will describe
00:02:30.740a scenario to Simone because she probably won't know this now maybe if you're a gamer you will
00:02:35.320know the statistics on this particular decision but gamers generally like to choose the choice
00:02:40.600that they see as more more right oh interesting yes because you don't want to see yourself as a
00:02:46.860bad guy or be doing bad things so there is one moment in it that's framed as like this morally
00:02:53.640complex choice so there was an incredibly warlike species that ended up destroying their
00:03:00.600own planet after being artificially given technology by an outsider species um this species
00:03:07.660because they lived in an incredibly harsh environment had around a thousand eggs per year
00:03:14.020and lived about a thousand years on average and so when most of the eggs stopped dying in infancy
00:03:22.820because they industrialized the populations immediately exploded leading to nuclear war
00:03:29.160because they're already a very aggressive species and wiping out most of their planet.
00:03:34.400So then the species that uplifted them infected them with something called the genophage.
00:03:40.040And the genophage is said to make one in only a thousand Krogan births result in a live, healthy baby.
00:03:50.840Now, I would note here, if you're already looking at the numbers,
00:03:54.660this should still lead to a heavily growing krogan population because krogan females live a thousand
00:04:01.260years and have a thousand eggs a year so even if only one of them is surviving that's still
00:04:06.960one kid a year for a species that lives a thousand years it's still pretty good yeah yeah but the way
00:04:13.520the game plays out it's like somehow implied that the devs did the math wrong okay this is so much
00:04:21.900worse than i thought so in the game the reason why the one in a thousand was chosen by the species
00:04:28.520that chose it for them or the scientists who chose it for them was he thought that this would
00:04:32.360stabilize the population because well it wouldn't even stabilize it it would just make its growth
00:04:37.360not stupidly explosive and if in human society most human women had one kid per year we wouldn't
00:04:47.000say that's stabilizing the population but no the krogan culturally doubled down on this and become
00:04:54.980even more violent and kill even more of their children and mass migrate off planet to become
00:05:02.160mercenaries so it proves the choice and they thought that this meant that the krogan population
00:05:09.720was declining fairly quickly in in numbers and so there's this huge moral choice of do you
00:05:18.620eradicate the genophage like do you cure this thing that is lowering the krogan birth rate
00:05:25.460okay now i think the moral answer in this should be obvious it's so obvious i have never been able
00:05:35.500to whether i'm playing paradigm whether i'm playing rogue even wanting to see everything
00:05:40.400that happens in the game i cannot bring myself to cure it it seems so obviously stupid to cure this
00:05:46.320because the species would just explode and destroy the galaxy right well it would be bad for the
00:05:51.420species bad for probably anyone else bad for like the universe on a mega scale okay so can you guess
00:05:59.520what percent of gamers choose to cure the genophage 60 percent 96 percent
00:06:08.880gamers you know so this isn't even like necessarily a particularly cooked population
00:06:16.700right when we think of gamers like who do we think of right like a gamer gate everything like
00:06:21.840that like gamers did vote with their wallets gamers did leave but these are still gamers
00:06:26.460nonetheless right so you this is somewhat of a trolley problem though right where no one wants
00:06:32.280to be responsible for pulling the lever that allows for death i guess right so if they don't
00:06:41.160they don't want to see themselves as responsible for participating in what could be argued as but
00:06:47.300they are actively pulling the lever because they're curing the genophage they they are they
00:06:53.680are the ones actively curing something and i want to point out how absolutely 96 of the population
00:07:00.760how absolutely retarded you have to be to make this decision this is not a species that right
00:07:08.420now will go extinct unless they continue the actions that they are taking which is constantly
00:07:13.180killing each other which is why they wanted to limit their reproduction but if you restore them
00:07:18.980to full reproduction we're not talking about a species that like humans you know at most is
00:07:26.240dealing with like four or five kids per woman per generation we are talking about a thousand
00:07:33.100children per year per woman who lives a thousand years with their tfr being what it is now so
00:07:45.760e.g. woman lives a thousand years let's assume that she's reproductive for 800 of them and she
00:07:53.840has one kid a year because only one in a thousand survive and they can fertilize a thousand per year
00:07:59.440this means that it is a species that right now has a tfr of 800 okay humanity yeah we're at a tfr
00:08:11.680of like 1.6 in the united states the actual stupidity like you you are outright dooming the
00:08:20.920universe for sure by curing this and if you say oh but the species can change i'm sorry buddy
00:08:29.340if having a tfr of 800 puts you at an extinction level event because you are so kill happy and you
00:08:38.140can't change in that event. I really don't think you're going to change for the rest of the
00:08:42.640universe. And even if one faction of Krogan decides to limit the reproduction, there is
00:08:49.100going to be other factions that don't, that don't care about the externalities. And then what do
00:08:55.320you do about them? Exterminate them? How many million are there going to be by the time you
00:08:59.420do that? Billion, trillion are there going to be? It's obvious you are setting up the universe for
00:09:05.220a needed genocide in the future by doing this and for what for a short-term emotional hit
00:09:13.560because you knew a krogan or you had a krogan in your squad who you liked i liked the krogan
00:09:19.420characters in the game too but i can do in math it's perfectly possible for you to know and like
00:09:27.700a person and admire them and think you are cool but i can still do the math on what your culture
00:09:34.500says it needs to do right i know i know but like look a lot of people now when they look at
00:09:42.120different human populations that are suffering a lot right rather than figuring out how to get
00:09:50.360people out of that region where there's immense poverty or how to educate them more or things
00:09:55.180like that they're like i'll just give you all more food so that you can well i think your answer is
00:09:59.980also somewhat naive cultures and populations are different some cultures in populations because of
00:10:07.820differences in how they approach things like the value of education to them are never going to have
00:10:15.800the quality of life conditions that you see as the minimum that a human should live within and thus
00:10:26.220you as an outsider who are productive really only have two choices give them or eradicate them or
00:10:35.380allow them to continue to live in their current conditions and what the west has broadly decided
00:10:40.720is the correct answer is give them that's that's sort of where we've gone with this and this has
00:10:47.740enormously negative consequences. So it just at like the broad level, if you enable cultures to
00:10:56.280that just, you know, oh, I have more food. Now I'm going to have more kids, right? If you enable them
00:11:02.700to just continue to proliferate, then you enable the suffering that is associated with that
00:11:09.900population, right? And this is true within populations as well. When you go out of your way
00:11:17.960to help the weak within a population, you often end up creating more overall suffering. This is
00:11:27.400at a genetic level and at a cultural level. Within our society, we've really seen this as we've sort
00:11:33.400of made a point of nobody dies that means that many genetic conditions that wouldn't have existed
00:11:40.680if nature had played out its course are going to proliferate more frequently but you don't just
00:11:47.320have this at the level of the individual you also have this at the meta level at the level of the
00:11:52.480culture right like you have various civilizations on earth here today right and in the united states
00:12:00.500we frequently now import people who very clearly have a completely orthogonal cultural mindset to
00:12:10.540us. And we've taken this perspective of because we have successfully integrated some groups in the
00:12:18.760past, that we will be able to successfully integrate these new groups. And that is
00:12:26.700something that's not necessarily true, right? Like if we look around the world,
00:12:33.160there are many locations where a population immigrated into a region and never fully
00:12:39.900integrated into that region, despite being there for many, many, many generations. And this is
00:12:47.100actually, generally speaking, from the perspective of that culture, a positive thing. It's because
00:12:52.840that culture had some form of cultural resistance to total acculturation. Examples of cultures that
00:13:00.720have proven very resistant over generations, Orthodox Jewish populations have proven very
00:13:05.180resistance to acculturation over generations. The Amish population has proved very resistant
00:13:09.720to acculturation. Romani populations have proved very resistant to acculturation. Now, simply
00:13:15.740because a group is resistant to acculturation does not mean necessarily that they are a group that
00:13:22.840automatically has to be your enemy or a group you see as adversarial. I doubt very many
00:13:29.780conservative Americans would consider the Amish to be antagonistic towards Americans' goals or
00:13:38.600values or the conservative movement or really anything. But keep in mind, you know, they don't
00:13:44.780fight in our wars. They are strict pacifists. They live a radically different lifestyle than
00:13:50.800most of you do and and this is what we need to think about is what does us versus them how do
00:13:57.320we define this how do we think about this and the reason i was talking about it in the context of
00:14:03.740space travel where it really begins to matter is suppose humanity really does split into two
00:14:12.600factions and this is truly i think if you want a future for let's say european civilization at
00:14:20.280this point europe is just cooked i see no way that they can realistically get out of the situation
00:14:28.640that they've put themselves in and there don't even seem to be political headwinds for it to
00:14:33.520happen right now with those things being the case if you are a european in europe and you are
00:14:41.900fantasizing about well okay what does the future of when we far into the future what where should
00:14:49.740i be heading what should i be aiming for space travel is largely what you're aiming for i think
00:14:56.140even within the united states like when i think about my family and and my culture's goal and
00:15:02.200it's it's obvious to me why elon is speed running for this as well it is to get off planet you know
00:15:09.740as quickly as possible or to build settlements in regions that are less populated as i've often said
00:15:17.440like arctic settlements and stuff like that just so we're not in a place where we have to deal with
00:15:21.500other people but in regards to the you know once you begin doing the the space travel option
00:15:27.860that that that's where because even in the united states like while europe is cooked
00:15:33.420how far are we from europe right now right like even with everything that ice has done
00:15:42.160If you look at a place like, let's say, New York City right now, it's basically already, from a cultural perspective, completely fallen at this point.
00:15:52.340There really isn't much left that can be salvaged of New York.
00:15:58.240If you let existing trend lines continue to trend in the direction that they're going.
00:16:05.980If you're like a New Yorker or whatever, and you're like, this isn't true.
00:16:09.660you know, New York still has, man, I I've been going to New York all my life. Okay. The lack
00:16:16.080of trust that is endemic in all layers of New York society. Now, when you go through like a
00:16:22.220simple convenience store is clearly indicative of a society where the society itself cannot trust
00:16:32.620its citizens. As Simone pointed out in one of our weekend episodes, the concept of a grocery store
00:16:37.840You could go into a store and the food would just be out and you could just pick it up and walk around with it until you got to the end of the line. That didn't exist anywhere until Piggly Wiggly in 1914, right?
00:16:54.620A society that was that high trust is a historical anomaly and is in many ways already collapsed
00:17:04.640in most of Europe and is, and note, it didn't reach Europe until later than that.
00:17:10.080So Europe only got this little experiment about being able to walk into a store and
00:17:13.860pick something up fairly recently, but it's already collapsing within our cities in the
00:17:19.540united states right and so how how what does future look like it looks like getting getting
00:17:26.520into space i also want to point out when i talk about different groups here i have a little
00:17:30.140segment at the end where i go more into this but we just did an episode on young and some of our
00:17:34.620fans i think were pretty surprised and they were like your take on young is too materialist and
00:17:39.920being materialist is very urban monoculture which of course made us just like immediately laugh
00:17:44.920Because from our cultural perspective, being materialist is incredibly anti-urban monoculture, and the urban monoculture is incredibly woo and mystical.
00:17:54.760And what I sort of had to point out to Simone, and I was like, no, what you're missing is that for many of our audience, the urban monoculture is actually more materialist than their culture, right?
00:18:08.040And so from their cultural perspective, where from our perspective, one of the urban monoculture's key sins is mysticism and woo.
00:18:16.640From their cultural perspective, one of his key sins is materialism.
00:18:21.160And yet we can see enough cultural alignment in this existing geopolitical moment that we make particularly good allies.
00:21:46.200Through our strength, we lead the Crusaders to see the Great Father's dream realized.
00:21:54.000His hidden hope to one day return and reclaim paradise.
00:21:59.940It is our sole purpose, our divine right.
00:22:04.480we will bring vengeance down upon the tyrants that enslave humanity
00:22:11.180and they shall tremble before our rights but in the federation presumably the ideal
00:22:20.960that would undermine it is well we're able to maintain peace because we don't allow for true
00:22:32.340competition. You know, we all attempt to live in harmony. And what you need to point out is
00:22:38.540that can never work long-term. And the reason it can never work long-term is because of any
00:22:45.600sub-faction within that cultural alliance does want to, you know, work towards its own aims.
00:22:54.640It eventually overthrows it. If you were to have a cultural group organically form within this
00:23:02.340perfect star trekking federation right and that cultural group was genuinely only self-interested
00:23:11.100and constantly attempting to improve itself and through that getting better it would eventually
00:23:17.360accumulate more and more resources have more and more political influence until the entire
00:23:25.200federation served the whims of that one cultural group, right? And if the, and this is what we're
00:23:34.460already seeing was in the urban monoculture. They have brought in many outside populations
00:23:38.860that simply don't hold their value set and are very loud about not holding their value set,
00:23:44.340right? And yet they don't seem to care about this because like the Krogan, it doesn't matter what
00:23:51.300the long-term ramifications of their decision are all that matters is that they feel like the good
00:23:58.600guys in the moment and i want to point out that their long-term ramifications of their decisions
00:24:02.540are on the face bloody and terrible if you look at a place like let's say germany right which is
00:24:09.680further along than we are in the united states if you look at their immigrant population in germany
00:24:14.300what was it the last i checked it was 40 of germans or 35 immigrated after war war one i
00:24:22.340want to say so like not you know not german at all culturally or genetically unless they've
00:24:27.880they've adopted to the culture but and i've mentioned this before it's my scorpion and the
00:24:33.860snake and the panda which is to say you have a scorpion and a snake and a panda who's holding
00:24:39.140them apart and this happened when i was talking to a reporter because i pointed out they're like
00:24:44.680many muslim immigrants in germany acclimate very well to german culture um and many germans
00:24:51.320get along perfectly well with muslim populations and i'm like great i don't deny that but the
00:24:59.180muslims who have tons of kids are they more likely to be the ones who are not acclimating
00:25:04.420are they more likely to be the ones that are acclimating and the answer is obviously they're
00:25:09.760more likely to be the ones who are not acclimating and i'm like so that culture over time will drift
00:25:15.260in the cultural direction of the ones who are not acclimating now the germans who do not want to
00:25:22.100live alongside the muslims you know a culture where from many of the countries that they're
00:25:26.800coming from you know things like marrying people who are nine is considered culturally normal
00:25:30.860and this isn't me like this is just like the law in many of these countries as we pointed out in
00:25:36.620the episode where the court in with the pakistan threw a fit and said it was islamophobic to raise
00:25:41.520the age of consent and so this again it's not me making accusations i'm just saying that this is
00:25:47.940normal within some parts of muslim culture and it is those parts of muslim culture that are having
00:25:52.960given a faster rate and some germans are just like i will not live alongside this right are
00:25:59.880those germans is it that part of german culture that is replicating faster in terms of having kids
00:26:06.180and the answer there is again obviously yes
00:26:09.560so you know like if you if you're looking at this with any degree of objectivity
00:26:17.400eventually something's going to happen there if you keep letting this build up
00:26:23.240okay eventually there is going to be a point where you have two populations that don't want
00:26:29.740to live next to each other living next to each other and one of the populations is eventually
00:26:37.280going to be you know there's going to be conflict because they're both like i don't want to live
00:26:41.740next to you i don't want to live alongside you at least not under the the rules that you are setting
00:26:47.420what is interesting is that the the muslim populations might in the end even be more open
00:26:53.800they might be like yeah sure i'll live alongside you so long as we move to sharia law and a lot
00:26:57.700of people are like oh this isn't what the majority of muslims want they don't want to move to sharia
00:27:01.660law and and this is you know factually untrue if you look at what's the statistic in the uk what
00:27:06.800percent of muslims in the uk want sharia yeah i don't i feel like that was maybe there must be
00:27:10.800more up-to-date info too because it was some really high percentage it's 40 so yeah a lot
00:27:19.520a lot a lot a lot and i bet you that 40 of muslims who want sharia law in the uk
00:27:25.080i would bet my life that they have a tfr that's at the very least 30 higher than the group that
00:27:33.700doesn't probably but i'd be willing to say very likely that it's at least twice as high and so
00:27:40.440you're going to get this more in the future and i think that this is really important for people who
00:27:47.280are part of the wider conservative movement to get because actually yeah i mean that's supported
00:27:59.340even by the polling so you were referring to a 2006 icm poll that found around 40 percent
00:28:06.560supported quote there being areas in britain which are predominantly muslim and in which
00:28:11.660sharia law sharia law is introduced but then in 2016 so 10 years later that's up to 43 percent
00:28:19.580supporting growing the introduction of sharia law yeah yep yeah 22 percent opposed and 16
00:28:27.780strongly supporting oh okay interesting all right yeah wow go on sorry no but but it's like
00:28:36.320obviously the urban monoculture digs its head in the ground about this you know it's like where we
00:28:40.500are, they want what we want, right? We just give them more stuff, more privileges, more opportunities,
00:28:47.520and even conservatives really struggle with this. They will have a friend who is from a particular
00:28:55.820group or a fan that is from a particular group, and they will see their ability to get along
00:29:02.440with that individual and believe that that means that there is a path towards creating a working
00:29:11.380solution for everyone from that demographic for everyone for that culture when if the person who
00:29:21.260you get along with in that cultural group is well below fertility rate their perspectives
00:29:27.800are not necessarily are are unlikely to be contiguous with the perspectives of whatever
00:29:34.480that population ends up doing in the long run and and even if they're above repopulation rate
00:29:40.880again what matters is is averages right and yes you can then find new ways to define people like
00:29:48.380we'll say well the us can be the parts of this group that are willing to agree to x y and z
00:29:56.820points of faith or points of morality or conditions now it used to be that we understood this was just
00:30:04.280obvious as a society right like you can't just invite somebody into your society without them
00:30:09.220agreeing to any conditions you know to have no shared culture and no conditions at all and just
00:30:16.540well it and once it wasn't even that anymore it was also though like okay but at least you
00:30:22.740you promised to follow the law like to to adhere to our rules and laws yeah what's so interesting
00:30:29.380about the current divide between democrats and republicans in the united states is it right now
00:30:35.860it seems to be boiling down to whether or not we are going to enforce laws so now it's not even
00:30:43.820we don't expect you to adhere to our culture it's we don't even expect at least these privileged
00:30:49.020groups to adhere to our actual laws that were voted in by Congress, which are being enforced by,
00:30:55.000well, supposed to be enforced by our agencies. And the great outrage that many Democrats now have
00:31:00.820is merely over the fact that we are enforcing existing laws, which previous Democrat
00:31:07.760administrations had chosen to not enforce, which to me is pretty wild.
00:31:12.360yes and one of the things that's really important for like the american and european conservative
00:31:21.580movement to grok because they are sort of shared conservative movements even though i think that
00:31:26.940the europe has been so eaten by the urban monoculture like they're not meaningfully
00:31:30.740our allies but the conservative movements in europe are related to the ones in the united
00:31:34.580states and the the american and european conservative movements and latin american
00:31:40.140as well i think it's sort of the same wider actually latin america has some of the best
00:31:44.780conservative leaders out there right now in terms of like leaders who european and american
00:31:50.280conservatives get one for that's some of the the few conservative hero stories that we're seeing
00:31:55.560we should probably do an episode on el salvador and the the crack the successful crackdown that
00:32:01.420they've been able to do there and really transforming their society from a progressive
00:32:05.900hellscape into, you know, a society of rules and laws and where you don't just murder people on
00:32:12.360the street anymore. And that, to an extent, shows how far a society can slip before they do
00:32:17.860something. How many years did Argentina have to flounder before they finally decided to do
00:32:23.340something about it, right? And this is also an interesting point here that might be worth a
00:32:29.460whole other episode where i think many american conservatives are like why are you you know
00:32:35.900importing latin americans when they're so culturally distant from us and yet you know
00:32:41.300they're overwhelmingly like latin american men are majority voting for trump and in their own
00:32:45.720countries they're some of the only countries that have meaningfully been able to make the endless
00:32:51.400progressive tide retreat so that's that's to me it's like the reason i'm i'm highlighting this
00:32:58.740particular thing is american conservatives a european latin we need to understand that it may
00:33:06.000feel conservative and cool to go out there with this authoritarian sort of aesthetic
00:33:14.380and be like you're either exactly like this or you don't get to be part of our alliance
00:33:22.280you know this is obviously very common in talking points like say nick fuentes is talking points and
00:33:27.240stuff like this some of our fans are like no you know you need to be x y and z and i'm like do you
00:33:33.520understand how little power any of the demographics that you guys keep breaking yourself down into
00:33:41.220have anymore if you go out there and you say something like you like you still recognize
00:33:48.100there's us in them but then you say and the us group must be white christian northern european
00:33:57.640descendant right it's then you don't have enough of a group to civilizationally survive you're not
00:34:05.880going to win elections in most european countries you're like well no we would win elections if
00:34:11.720everyone who met these criteria voted for the group that was advantaging people who meet these
00:34:19.100criteria and it's like well then your criteria are really bad because the majority of people
00:34:24.620even who meet those criteria are unwilling to vote for the system that advantages people
00:34:33.080who meet those criteria right something about the culture associated with those criteria
00:34:40.520makes these people into or at least their women into real bleeding hearts in a way that people
00:34:49.120call what do they call it sociopathic empathy and so when you go out there and you try to explain
00:34:53.860something like this to them they're not going to grok it right and if you deny this you are simply
00:35:01.140denying reality all the way till you and your culture movement whatever you want to call it
00:35:08.880is walked off a cliff you will not matter in the future you will not exist in the future
00:35:14.740because you are fighting a fight that you should recognize is patently unwinnable and then the
00:35:22.840people are like no we can create this movement fine try but the problem that i have repeatedly
00:35:30.240seen is the iterations of the movement and note here when i talk about the people who don't want
00:35:37.420to live alongside muslims here i'm talking about you know normal conservatives don't want to live
00:35:41.580along people who are great being nine-year-olds that is different like saying i don't want to
00:35:47.180live alongside stuff like that which is something we can agree with i think we're pretty mainstream
00:35:51.600conservatives that's different from being this more extreme group right the the nick fuentes
00:35:57.780type group right where i could say i don't want to live alongside that group but i'm willing to
00:36:02.820work with other groups to achieve my goals i'm willing to work with groups that have different
00:36:07.300value sets that i have to achieve my goals and so how do we delineate what those groups are like
00:36:14.240what are the groups that we can get along with and what are the groups that we can't get along
00:36:18.160with but the the sorry the final point i was about to make here which i also think it's pretty
00:36:21.780interesting is that the groups that take this suicidal approach the the nick fuentes approach
00:36:27.280interestingly i i think that the reason that they're able to take this suicidal approach in
00:36:32.440this group that any outsider would immediately recognize is suicidal and i say suicidal because
00:36:36.380that just won't work like you don't have the demographics to win within anywhere is that they
00:36:41.940typically don't have kids or don't have many kids and so they're okay with playing suicidally
00:36:48.160the the civilizational game because they don't actually have any skin in the game they don't
00:36:51.400really care about winning so thoughts simone before i go go further on that so who who can
00:36:57.560you work with yeah i'm more curious as to like the practical implications or next steps
00:37:05.240well i think the the two broad things that we look for in allies right the the first and biggest
00:37:20.260thing that anyone is looking for in an ally is are their enemies your enemies right like do you guys
00:37:28.260largely have the same adversaries this is the reason why a lot of people in our fan group who
00:37:35.800might see us as like weird techno conservative types right that would still ally with us or
00:37:45.280like our advice or want to work with us long term because the core daily enemy in their lives is the
00:37:52.520urban monoculture um and so they say okay and so you guys make a good ally for us and interestingly
00:38:00.660i think that this is also part of the reason why the urban monoculture so frequently sides with
00:38:06.920violent islamists right they're like well you know you hate the part of american and european
00:38:13.880culture that's going to survive that's not us and therefore even though we have almost no values in
00:38:19.940common, and they really have almost no values in common, at least on the books, they can still
00:38:25.320ally with one another, right? They both hate these same people. And again, the reason I say it's
00:38:31.860important for us to do this is if you can't lay down a grudge and be like, yes, I can ally with
00:38:40.420groups like Orthodox Jews or something like that. And I can ally with groups like Mormons, even
00:38:45.720though i think their theology is weird or i can ally with groups like catholics even though i
00:38:50.500think that one day we're going to have a cultural or orthogonality with them if you conservative
00:38:56.980cannot lay down that to win this fight you just don't have a shot because your enemy is willing
00:39:06.160to lay down all of the differences between violent expansionistic islamism and the urban
00:39:15.300monoculture to persistently work together that's what we're fighting against and that's frankly
00:39:25.620a very very powerful force when you consider the depending on the country of probably
00:39:34.320unwinnable against force at this point yeah yeah and i think that it's important and this is why
00:39:43.180we do this in our show so aggressively is to aggressively call out and target people who are
00:39:51.140in this wider anti-urban monoculture faction and it's really anti-urban monoculture slash islamism
00:39:57.340because somehow they become best buds and i actually think and i've i talked about this in
00:40:01.840another episode that's what we're seeing more of going into the future when the urban monoculture
00:40:08.060lost the palestine war as something to complain about when it lost environmentalism as something
00:40:14.120to complain they're still complaining about it last time i checked yeah but you know trump created
00:40:20.660peace in that region before going to war in iran which now they're complaining about that but like
00:40:25.080i've noticed they don't seem to care as much about that as they did the palestine issue
00:40:28.460which has been weird to me but anyway so you sorry the war in iran but what seems to have
00:40:37.220replaced these sort of persistent talking points within the movement historically is pro just pure
00:40:46.380communism which you predicted simone and pro islamism and i think we need to to recognize
00:40:52.180that these movements are morphing into more of a a single unified force at least in terms of the
00:40:58.060the movements that they're making on the on the ground we don't have the numbers to beat them
00:41:02.840anywhere anywhere and what do you mean i mean since when were numbers about beating people
00:41:12.200anyway if the long-term story is about going to space because we could end up with a situation
00:41:22.080where before we get to space the groups arrayed against us either control technology which could
00:41:31.800end life on the planet, e.g. nuclear bombs. You get an Afilist or an antinatalist in control of
00:41:40.060nuclear bombs or an Islamist in control of nuclear bombs, and all of civilization is at an existential
00:41:47.840point of risk, which is why the war in Iran was so necessary. But that is one thing. It could be
00:41:56.440gray goo scenario, they end up delivering something like that. But the second thing is
00:42:01.120just civilizational rot. I think we're getting very close to a point where as civilization
00:42:07.960continues to exist, we write about this in our book on governance, number one Wall Street
00:42:11.440bestseller, by the way, where we talk about how as governments grow larger and age, they begin to
00:42:19.340develop self-replicating, self-interested units that basically grow on the money of these
00:42:27.240organizations, right? So suppose you are a city and you start however many 50,000 commissions a
00:42:35.220year or something like that. And one of these commissions finds a way to say, actually, we
00:42:42.540need to keep, we need to be running every year, right? And so it does, right? It survives. It's
00:42:49.220basically evolving, right? And then for the one of these that get through every, you know, 10 years
00:42:55.340or every 100 years, you know, you get one that finds out, oh, and this is a good way to keep
00:43:01.800them from shutting us down. A good strategy that many of them were using was to say that we are
00:43:05.820fighting racism, right? You can't shut down the org that's fighting racism, right? But then they
00:43:10.820find ways to get more resources, which is what cancer cells do. They start asking for more and
00:43:15.840more blood vessels and more blood veins, right? You know, so the more and more resources come to
00:43:19.840them. And now that they're larger, a bunch of people, a larger part of the surviving organization
00:43:25.500is dependent on that inefficiency existing. And this is why you get those crazy numbers,
00:43:31.380like, you know, $10 million for a porta potty in Manhattan, right? Eventually, you just can't do
00:43:37.600basic work. Infrastructure cannot grow. And our civilization right now is actually sort of living
00:43:43.300off of the infrastructure of our ancestors we do not have right now the technology and know-how
00:43:52.020and even really government ability to if we wanted to build a nuclear power plant most of the nuclear
00:43:58.260power plants that we have in operation are older than 50 years old the people who know how to make
00:44:02.820nuclear power plants don't really they they're it's not that they're like not at work anymore
00:44:08.340we're like two generations from any of them being at work anymore well so the that's not as much of
00:44:15.840a problem because there are startups that are building small format nuclear plant technology
00:44:22.980and like it can be done the problem is that the regulatory structure in the united states would
00:44:27.480literally block those from being built oh no absolutely no like in in in five to ten years
00:44:32.660we could have we could have them up we can't with our current regulatory environment and that is
00:44:39.160that is really sad because i mean also from a cultural standpoint i don't see that changing
00:44:43.480this is why so many people in our wider movement are looking at city states this is why there was
00:44:49.340a thing where we were looking at creating a breakaway city state in the isle of man
00:44:52.060that could have its own regulations and where you could set up things like micro nuclear power
00:44:55.860plants and genetic augmentation and stuff like that in preparation for space travel because
00:45:00.020But that's, I think, the best shot that we're going to have for preserving, I think many people on a civilizational level are not fully grokking what it means to have a society where the most intelligent people are just not having children, right?
00:45:18.280how quickly IQ can drop from genetic reasons in a society.
00:45:24.100And you can watch our episode that YouTube heavily restricted called,
00:45:28.000is an idiocracy possible for going over the data in detail on that?
00:45:32.580Because there, there is a, it's just like, we're cooked.
00:45:36.840We're cooked in just a few generations.
00:45:39.400Now there are positive upsides to this.
00:45:42.260If you are a high agency, high intelligence human being,
00:45:46.540who is having a lot of kids you know it makes immediate sense to well because your your kids
00:45:55.800are going to be playing a much easier in many ways at least competitive environment than you
00:46:00.920were playing yeah but you've also got to be aware of even if they're playing in an easier competitive
00:46:06.920environment than you were playing in who is that competitive environment going to be dominated by
00:46:14.500and how are you going to like how are you setting things up to work with those groups right now
00:46:21.240this is one of the reasons why i keep being like why are you guys like the parts of the
00:46:27.040conservative movement and this is why i think the parts of the conservative movement that have lots
00:46:30.760of kids generally don't attempt to antagonize the jews because it's if you're thinking long
00:46:35.860term in any sort of a context it's clear that they have in terms of the populations that have
00:46:42.040high TFRs and a lot of technological output. They're really the only player in the game at
00:46:48.460this point. And a high TFR among their intelligent population as well. We'll go over another set of
00:46:57.180studies that shows that religiosity is actually correlated with eugenic breeding patterns within
00:47:04.260populations and i have noticed this within orthodox jewish communities that you you see
00:47:12.760this more so the the orthodox jewish community many people like well the orthodox jewish
00:47:16.340communities will eventually choke out israel which they could they really could because some
00:47:20.920parts of them like the satmir are just completely unproductive and they don't exhibit these breeding
00:47:26.440patterns and if they grow at a faster pace than the other jewish populations they're like israel
00:47:34.980really doesn't have a shot it either needs to you you need to get what's the most realistic outcome
00:47:40.880is a group of jews that's going to have to declare bankruptcy on israel and move and create a jewish
00:47:46.720or a charter city somewhere which it seems like israel to do i mean they did this very frequently
00:47:54.920was like the what were they called again oh the kibbutzim yeah yeah yeah so like where they they
00:48:00.820were like businesses and yeah and they were very effective they were they were so effective that
00:48:05.220the main reason that they ended up failing is they became too wealthy and all of the kids wanted to
00:48:09.020cash out so you actually can get this when you have like cultural unity and and this is again
00:48:14.820a thing to say so suppose you go out there and you build your charter city that's along your
00:48:22.760culture's value set, which is, I think, the way a lot of these are going to happen. People are
00:48:27.280going to say, I have this set of values. This is going to be what this charter city is optimized
00:48:33.340around. And people with a similar set of values will come and join my charter city.
00:48:40.760Simply because you have done this, your charter city, and this is why I call this like the haven
00:48:47.100model for where I think humanity is going, where most of the large countries are going to collapse
00:48:50.980And we're going to have a few centers of like techno fiefdoms of incredible wealth and stability.
00:48:56.260Even if you have, say, a Catholic charter city and you have a techno Puritan charter city and you have a libertarian utopian charter city or something like that.
00:49:07.020You have a communist charter city. You have an Islamist charter city.
00:49:09.940right you need to be open to and already setting the cultural grounds for being able to work with
00:49:18.700charter cities that have different beliefs than yours like what are the other charter cities
00:49:22.840that you are going to network with to have enough technological capacity to eventually get off
00:49:29.620planet and then hopefully your population can explode and take over the the you know
00:49:33.780whoever goes what we're we're going to do when we get to space but how can you attempt that
00:49:39.940yeah all right so now who can you ally with who can you ally with one thing that i have noted in
00:49:47.940the past but i also want to note that this actually isn't as important as i pointed it out to be in
00:49:53.360the past is do does the group have an eventual mandate to eradicate you and i would i would now
00:50:02.200divide this into two subcategories do they have a current mandate to eradicate you and do they have
00:50:07.940an eventual mandate to eradicate you. If a group has a current mandate to eradicate you, like if
00:50:13.760they're coming in and being like, yes, I am migrating to your culture to destroy the things
00:50:19.820that your culture values, to implement this alternate system of laws. And no, to them,
00:50:26.320this seems personally reasonable. The urban monoculture has told them, well, democracy means
00:50:31.280whatever is the mainstream opinion is what gets implemented. And they're like, well, so when the
00:50:37.640majority of Canada is Muslim shouldn't Sharia law be in place you you've told me that's why we have
00:50:43.220to live under your laws you know why shouldn't you have to live under our laws when we're the
00:50:47.720majority right what would happen to a gay couple in Gaza executed according to Islamic law Islam
00:50:54.120doesn't endorse gays Islam doesn't endorse homosexuality just like Canada doesn't endorse
00:50:58.780a lot of things so would you like to see Sharia law in Canada replace Canadian law at some point
00:51:03.740it will you know because we are we have families we are making babies you're not your population
00:51:08.640is going down the slump right and by 2060 according to Pew Research Institute your research
00:51:14.760by 2060 Muslims will be the biggest religious group the world over what are you going to do
00:51:20.340then actually go post sharia is even that well you know what I'm very appreciative of the honesty
00:51:26.580we don't usually get that one day we can have a Muslim majority nation here in Canada right in
00:51:31.380but the truth is that's not actually canada's value system like canada's value system isn't
00:51:36.920actually sharia law they don't actually want to stone gay people and force a graped child to marry
00:51:43.240her assaulter they don't they don't they're not down with that stuff right and they you you you
00:51:49.360even see this from you know the interactions like there's a famous scary interaction in canada where
00:51:54.880a woman gets in a cab and the guy was like wow you're really pretty if it was my country i'd
00:51:59.500kidnap you and she's like uh-huh and he's like no i'm just giving you a compliment she's like
00:52:04.720that's just the way things are done where i'm from like not like i'm not gonna do it here but
00:52:08.520like you gotta understand we just kidnap women if they're pretty you know force it great them
00:52:12.900and force them to marry us that's the way the law works right so disturbing yeah i remember that clip
00:52:18.480well if you was born in pakistan originally from pakistan you must have been kidnapped by
00:52:24.600have been kidnapped by you? Of course.
00:52:26.920Because there is no option to get you, right?
00:52:54.360fault groups for many things the one thing you can't fault muslims for is honesty they signal
00:53:02.180loudly what they plan to do and what the west will be like when they are the majority
00:53:10.100and i have to admire that because i don't think i don't think i would do that or if people from
00:53:18.220my cultural group did that if they say i want to make your country and and and value system
00:53:28.560actively i want to destroy it and make it something that it's not right now or not in
00:53:33.660alignment with your values and they're actively working towards that i here's the problem with
00:53:41.920this many catholic groups are doing that and yet we basically have to ally with it
00:53:46.880because they are actively working toward things like ivf bands so i think you need to say if
00:53:56.920they're working towards that and they seem to have credible cultural tailwinds right like
00:54:04.220if they got to a point where it looked like they were going to be able to enact the things that
00:54:11.040just made it impossible for us to have children or something like that um then we reach a point
00:54:16.200i remember one person was like you guys act like infertility isn't something that can be solved in
00:54:21.280any other way you know and it's like some forms of infertility can't like yeah i mean what do you
00:54:27.940think we did before we had to turn to ivy because you know yeah how many giant needles how many
00:54:34.640experimental surgeries and procedures and diets well no but before that yeah it was it was changing
00:54:41.500diet it was changing the lifestyle it was changing like thyroid stuff it was you know it just
00:54:49.260you can only do so much you know right i love that i appreciate that people want to address
00:54:57.180underlying problems with fertility before going to more extreme stuff and here's the thing
00:55:02.680most reasonable people do so before hitting ivf because ivf is neither convenient nor affordable
00:55:10.700and even when ivf is paid for people still really want to avoid it but in that scenario so i'm
00:55:17.900thinking about it here in that scenario even if the catholics took over the conservative party
00:55:23.500in the u.s and were able to implement something like an ivf ban we would just move to a charter
00:55:27.980city and then ally ourselves still with the conservative party in the united states because
00:55:33.860it's still a closer to an ally with us long term against the the larger and more credible threats
00:55:41.360and so i think the real answer here is where is the aggregate credible threat right and where is
00:55:50.880the aggregate number of allies that you can bring together that will attempt to enforce upon you
00:55:59.300the fewest meaningful compromises in your cultural autonomy that's really what you're
00:56:07.480looking for and that's the yeah i think i think that's that's where you have to come through is
00:56:15.540where is the cultural aggregate alliance that's going to ask you to make the fewest compromises
00:56:22.560and this is where i've noticed like a lot of stupidity in the existing conservative movement
00:56:28.960Because if you go with that thesis, then a group like the Groypers or Nick Fuentes is basically just as threatening as an Islamist, right, in terms of the number of cultural compromises that they would enforce if they were able to gain power.
00:56:49.140i mean this all just boils down to a really really simple question which is
00:56:53.260does this person's culture long term you know if if they ruled the world would they permit you
00:57:01.440to live as you wish to live as long as it doesn't affect them no i don't i don't agree with that
00:57:08.360because most catholics would not allow us to live the way that we want to live and yet i do not
00:57:15.780thing most so the people wonder why like i think this is mixed so we we have heard we have heard
00:57:22.200from a decent number of catholic viewers who do not believe and this maybe this is not what the
00:57:31.080vatican would say i don't know but they basically believe that it is understood that the catholic
00:57:39.340mandate is for catholics to tend to their flock not to enforce their morality through laws
00:57:47.460so like a nation's laws you happen to be unaware of this pope leo the ninth wrote something called
00:57:53.140the syllabus of errors which explicitly says the catholics do have to do this they they need to
00:58:00.120essentially create a catholic caliphate now the parts of catholic culture not everyone agrees
00:58:06.140with pope i agree they're they're anti-vatican they're anti and so these factions make durable
00:58:12.080long-term allies but my point is is i think that even catholic factions that hold to something like
00:58:19.180the syllabus of errors are still allies they're they're still groups you can build temporary
00:58:27.300alliance for okay yeah allies for now you mean in yes in this cultural moment because it's better
00:58:34.620that you ally with them than that you lose because losing is civilizational at this point sure
00:58:41.580and so that's what i wanted to go over is is us versus them not being able to approach this topic
00:58:50.900with nuance is as civilizationally suicidal maybe not as but equivalently technically the long-term
00:59:00.300implications are but are as suicidal as the karen who lets the islamists into her country who says
00:59:07.460i want to kill grape you change your laws right that individual
00:59:12.340is pushing for a value system that will eventually lead to the eradication of the value system that's
00:59:24.440pushing it and the individual who says we won't ally with this group and this group and this group
00:59:30.000and this group and this list just keeps growing right so you you get this huge purity test
00:59:35.160they end up failing too when the group that they're defining it there it refuses to actually
00:59:41.280follow along with this alliance anyway love you Simone I love you too and I
00:59:51.960love that I can hear from you strategy on long-term cultural alignment because I don't
00:59:58.760know where else that's being talked to about i mean like i don't think a preacher in a church
01:00:02.720is going to be talking about how we should be thinking about how our culture allies with other
01:00:08.360cultures and religions over time you know it's more like us and our kind or them and them doing
01:00:13.760their thing it's not hey who are our best strategic partners in this and i appreciate
01:00:19.380that you're thinking about this and well i mean you actually do what's funny is you do in in in
01:00:24.520In Protestant churches, this is talked about a lot
01:00:28.000back when I used to go to Protestant churches.