What Do Ultra-Wealthy Apocalypse Bunkers Have To Do With Tunnel Jews？
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Summary
In this episode, we talk about the idea of underground bunkers, and why they might be a good idea. Plus, we find out who Mark Zuckerberg is building a bunker for and why he thinks it s pretty cool.
Transcript
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Hello, Simone. You sent me an interesting tweet by our friend Diana Fleishman, friend of the show,
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done a few episodes with us. What was it on? Talk a bit to this.
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Bunkers. So essentially she posted a Twitter poll recently asking her followers if they received
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$3 million, would they put some of it toward building a bunker, you know, for like end times
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or whatever? And the vast majority of responses was no, they would not. The average person is
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not thinking about this, but I have noticed that on the side of very wealthy people and also some of
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our friends who are not necessarily like insanely wealthy, but they move in those circles are totally
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thinking about this and totally want the bunkers and totally have their getaway plans. And then
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there are some like articles coming out about fairly prominent people either attempting to or planning to
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build their cool, scary times bunker. So apparently Peter Thiel had plans to build a bunker in New
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Zealand. I think it might've been rejected. I don't know what the current status is, but
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Sam Altman had at some point, he's the CEO of OpenAI, said something about like, you know,
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kind of being in on that. And like, you know, his plan was to go to that bunker, to Thiel's bunker,
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if things went bad. You know, Simone, I don't know if you know this. We have two different bunker
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invites. We do? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to go into who they are or anything.
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Well, I wish it were from Mark Zuckerberg because he certainly has the coolest bunker. I just want
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to read a description from Wired Magazine because it is so fun. Would you like to know more?
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According to plans viewed by Wired and a source familiar with the development,
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the partially completed compound consists of more than a dozen buildings with at least 30 bedrooms
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and 30 bathrooms in total. And it's centered around two mansions with a total of four area
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comparable. Oh, sorry. With a total floor area comparable to a professional football field,
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57,000 square feet, which contain multiple elevators, offices, conference rooms, and an
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industrial sized kitchen. In a nearby wooded area, a web of 11 disc shaped tree houses are planned,
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which will be connected by intricate rope bridges, allowing visitors to cross from one
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building to the next while staying among the treetops. A building on the other side of the main
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mansions will include a full-size gym, pool, sauna, hot tub, cold plunge, and tennis court.
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The property is dotted with other guest houses and operations buildings. The scale of the project
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suggests that it will be more of a personal vacation home. Zuckerberg has already hosted two
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corporate events at the compound. And the plans show that the two central mansions will be joined
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by a tunnel that branches off into a 5,000 square foot underground bunker. So not all of this is
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underground, like a lot of it's sort of above ground, which many of these planned things appear
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to be. They're not all like these super underground nuclear fallout bunkers. And many of the compound's
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doors are planned to be keypad operated or soundproofed. Others, like those in the library,
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are described as blind doors made to imitate the design of their surrounding walls. The door in
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the underground shelter will be constructed out of metal and filled with concrete, still common in
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bunkers and bomb shelters. So what I love about what Zuckerberg is building at the very least is that
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like he's clearly making a mixed use place. Like I love, I hate the idea of building a bunker that
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you're just not going to use. And I love that he's like, you know what, if I'm building a bunker,
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I'm going to make it like the coolest vacation house as well. You know, kill two birds with one
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stone, even if the end times don't come, at least I get to like, you know, have some fun,
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some good parties, good vacations in Hawaii. I absolutely love this as well. And so something
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that you had mentioned is, is not a lot of people are doing this. That has not been my read at all.
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I would say within the billionaire circles, almost every single one of them that we know of.
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And, and within our wider friend group, like if I think of our friends who work in BC and stuff like
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that, I'd say 80% of them have some sort of bunker system or off the grid plan. And if they're
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conservative, I'd say 99% of them do. Which is interesting. And so the question is like,
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what did they know that you don't know? And I actually think that the answer is going to be
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a little bit of a bummer to people. And it comes from, hold on a second, to actually address something
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that some people were talking about, because they want to use the resident JOO's comments
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on the situation in Manhattan, where the tunnel Jews, where it was found that they had dug these,
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the teen boys had dug these tunnels or like built out these tunnels underneath one of the,
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I think it was synagogues or something like that. And, and they're like, oh, look, it's proof.
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And they had like creepy old, like beds in them and stuff like that. And they, oh, they went by like
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No, a woman's bathhouse, a woman's ritual bathhouse.
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I'm sorry. The funny thing is, it's people like, they look at this and they're like, oh,
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this is a sign of something nefarious going on. And I'm like, actually, this is more of a sign of
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like, you're out of touchness with traditional masculinity. No, it's true. Like, like a
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traditional boy childhood. I had forts in the woods. I had, and when I was in the city,
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there was like at various places, I always had some sort of like fort in a derelict building or
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something like that. There was a derelict building by ours that we would go like explore. And we had
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like little areas that we knew about. And of course you take the little like doll heads and stuff like
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that. And all of the creepy things. Well, one of the ones near us was an old hospital and there
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was a children's wing of the hospital. You know, where you had all the decaying toys and all of
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the, it looked extra creepy, but of course that's the home base when you're setting up and making it,
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you know, look that way. And of course, anyone, he grew up in the movie era of like the seventies,
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every single male coming of age movie had a, you know, them drilling a hole in the side of the,
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the wall on the girls dorm. Like, is it gross? Yes. Is it something that they should have been
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doing? No. Is it normal male youth behavior and like not the sign of like child, like whatever
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smuggling? No, it's not like that is the insane conclusion to draw from that. You see people like,
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oh, like the, these, these disgusting child-sized mattresses, who's been forced to sleep on them.
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And it's like, dude, their little sister probably like aged out of it. And they were like, oh yeah,
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mom, dad, I'll go dispose of it. And they're like, oh, finally we have something soft to sit on down
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here. You know, this is the desire of young men to build little forts in hidden areas. And then of
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course, because it was a religious extremist, you know, community like these, they probably associated
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it with some form of like religious purpose as well. Yeah, sure. Because everything's through
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that filter. You know, and if it wasn't that, it would have been like Marvel movies or something,
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right? Like whatever. Right, right. Well, I mean, when you're young, you know, you do that sort of
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stuff. I mean, if you don't have a religious tradition, I don't know, it's like a Wiccan spot
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or something like that. Exactly. Exactly. You know, oh, I'm doing these little like special magic
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things that like other people don't have access to. It is normal kid stuff. It was the kids who did
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this. It wasn't like older people in the community. It was like a group of young men. So yeah,
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whatever. Right. Like I, but I think that that's sort of what we're seeing here. Okay. Is I think
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you have an instinct within some populations to build little fortifications. And I think that this
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instinct, you know, it comes from an episode that we were going to do, which is the frontier people's
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instinct to crave apocalypses. I think when you're talking about the general population, you know,
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you ask them about, you know, do you have a bunker? No, they can't afford a bunker. You ask them,
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do you have a zombie plan? Like when was the last time you thought about your zombie plan?
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I think, especially if you're talking to conservatives, probably 80% of men have spent
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some time, like a lot more time than they need to, given the actual probability of a zombie attack,
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thinking about their zombie plan. Yeah. You ask them like, how many MREs do you have? Like,
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you know, or even like you, you can see this built into some religions, like, you know, the,
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the Mormon norm of having a certain supply of food, all that, you know, like.
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Yeah. Well, and a lot of people don't know, but the, the, the, because your grandfather worked on
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one, the, the, the bunker. Yeah. At the bottom of some large Mormon temples. Yeah. So a lot of
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these frontier religions have this, but I actually think it's a genetic instinct in the same way that
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I think that like sort of the men, the young men of a tribe before they come of age, like building
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little traditions together and building little forts together, it's likely a traditional instinct
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because that would have really helped you bond with your kinsmen in a historic context and still
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does. But I think in addition, in developing secret rights and everything like that, you know,
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you see this, what is a fraternity? If not that all the boys get together, they, they have a,
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a place that's disgusting often, and they have secret little rituals and everything like that.
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This is a very conservative instinct, you could say. But then in addition to that,
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I also think the prepping for like things that can never happen is interesting.
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One of the most interesting things is if you ask people, what's their velociraptor plan? Now this
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isn't as popular today because the Jurassic Park movies aren't as popular as they used to be.
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Okay. Something like 20% of men would have a velociraptor attack plan of their house.
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Like if their house was surrounded by velociraptors, just like not a scenario that's going to remotely
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It's fun to fantasize about. Right. Right. But I don't think everyone does this. I think people
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who are from areas that have been civilized for a really long time, don't have apocalyptic plans
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as much as people who lived in frontier areas for a long time. So yeah, because surviving in the
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frontier is surviving in the apocalypse. Yeah. Well, no, an apocalypse can happen at any day,
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you know, basically an apocalypse, right? Yeah. You know, you're building, then what do you have?
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You're back to square zero again, right? No, I mean, you don't think about it. No,
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just even on a nice sunny day, you know, food is limited. Locusts could come through, you know,
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some kind of pest could come through and completely wipe out all your food. A snowstorm could come,
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raiders, you know, like, you know, in some cases, like local tribes that are very antagonistic or
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sometimes just like, like thieves on the road, you know, could just come and like attack your house
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at any time. Like it's, it is 100%. It is the, the frontier is an apocalypsistic scenario. So
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to a great extent, the kinds of concerns that people are planning around are exactly the same
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concern that their ancestors survived around. Yeah. And the people in these contexts who didn't
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have this instinct to have like a hidden store of food away from their house to have like a backup
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house. So that's like uniquely defensible to have, like, they just died when these things happen.
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That's why this instinct is so strong in these populations. It's also why, if you look at the
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frontier, like if you look at the best apocalyptic movies, uh, they are coming out of frontier areas.
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So you look at like good Hollywood movies, good, like the, like road where, where did that come from?
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Australia, right? You know, all of the good apocalyptic stories typically come from the
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Americas or from Australia. And if you look at anime, they honestly just don't do a very good
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job with apocalyptic stories. I I've never had a good apocalyptic anime that I really liked.
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High school of the dead is probably the closest. I think it's the best zombie property I've ever
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watched, but it wasn't really told like an apocalypse story, which is much more, you know,
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an instance where you're forced to like prove your mettle and like everything.
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It's a survival story. An apocalypse is very different from survival scenarios.
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It's about a sustainable life going forward. It's about having a defensible property.
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It's about having a food supply. It's not about making it from one day to the next.
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Yeah. Which is what you often see more in the Japanese stories, right? Like it's not about
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building a settlement, building the defenses around the settlement. This is what the people
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from these apocalyptic traditions start fantasizing about. And I also think that there's different
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colors of apocalyptic tradition that people fantasize about, given the environment that their
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ancestors had to adapt to. So if you look at me, like my apocalyptic fantasy, when I look at it,
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when I listen to the songs associated with it, I love it. A part of my heart longs for it. And you
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could say, well, who would ever long for this? It's the Frostpunk universe.
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I have heard that there are those who would defy us, who choose oppression or ascension for the
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pious dissidents, without repent, depend on questioning. The diest was did I, and this
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pariahs, and their heretic messiah went to blizzards to infinity. So sing the hymns and
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litanies, hand in and skin the sinners, if you wish to skim divinity. Each shiver will deliver
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us deliverance in time, earn the innocence for penitence if we preempt the crime.
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In my midst, battlements of sacraments as chattel to our right. The sacrilegious and recalcitrant
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shall var off these the smite. Non-believers shan't deceive us, we shall greet their cheek
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with grievance. In this sister season, we redeem the meek with bleak obedience. Seeking each
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unheeding heathen, see them bleed or plead allegiance. Blessed be your relief from freedom, lest ye
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feel the need for treason. Since the precept was decreed, its certainty was predetermined.
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Near herds of sheep are people, thus they need to be subservient. Be so turbulent of
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firmament, the worst of men survive. Pray their mercy may preserve the sins that touch the other
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side. And here you are complaining about our interior temperature being 51 degrees. Come
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on, Malcolm. Right? Yes. You need a bunch of cold to edify the spirit. Would you know, I-
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Oh my god, no. Octavian, the other day, I just have to say this. The other day, he was like,
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I love the cold. And I'm like, yes, my son. Did he send that to you? Yes. And our house is a cold
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house. It's a cold house. Like, we do not eat in the winter with our belief system, right? You know,
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constant self-deprivation. Yeah. So I think what we're seeing here is an evolved instinct.
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It's interesting. I mean, yeah. Yeah. We also frame it as something that people enjoy.
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It doesn't seem that all the people involved with this enjoy it. Like, they're actually worried. And,
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you know, some of our friends, when they've spoken about it, don't talk about it like they're
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enjoying it. They talk about it like it's keeping them up at night. So I wouldn't say- I do agree it's
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an instinct, just like a squirrel having the instinct to hide away food. I don't think that these people
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enjoy it. Now, there's this one Marxist media theorist, self-styled, I should say. I'm not just
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calling them that, who wrote this piece in The Guardian about how, oh, these rich people just keep
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reaching out to me and asking for my advice because they think I'm a futurist, even though
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I'm a humanist. And then sometimes I just go anyway, because I won't say that to the money,
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of course. And maybe I can convince them to be better people. And the general gist of this person's
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thesis is that the apocalyptic mindset that these wealthy people have is a danger to society because
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it's kind of this fantasy that they want to come true. Like, there can only be one. They want this
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future where only they survive. And like, they might- the article doesn't, I think, explicitly say
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this, but like, they might manifest it because they're the powerful people and they'll make it
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happen. Or they won't stop it from happening because they kind of want it to happen.
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Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what to say. Like, I do think a lot of people-
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I would only do that. I mean, they have their power because of the existing system.
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The rich and the powerful in a society are those individuals who are often most
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threatened by ideas that counter the society and the mainstream ideals. This is why you have
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individuals who are often clearly smart enough to understand the concept of the urban monoculture,
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understand the negative value sets it's giving to a population, you know, like Mark Zuckerberg or
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Bill Gates or something like that. Like, if they applied the most small modicum of thoughts to the
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world is structured today, they would realize how unjust it is and how dangerous it is. But they
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can't. They can't afford to because if the world structure changed, they would lose what they have.
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I don't know. I think, so among the threats that they were planning for that were listed,
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there was climate change, obviously. So like a lot of concern over that, but also social instability.
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And no, well, I think so. So some people who are covering this whole billionaire bunker thing
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are also talking about people getting golden passports and all these other, like, you know,
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like, you know, buying islands. I totally don't think this has anything to do with apocalyptic
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planning. They're buying islands because they want to have a freaking island. Like buying an
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island is like the worst place to be in an apocalypse. You're going to get taken out by
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the next hurricane. This is when I grew up, my family had a private island in the Bahamas that
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we would go to and we would spend, you know, I'd spend a few months there every year and, you know,
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pirate raids and stuff like that. They are, people think islands are much more defensible than they
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are. Yeah. The house that Malcolm lived in with his family that they'd built on that island
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literally riddled full of bullets. It is like, it was so sad to walk through it and it was so
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disturbing because it was like stuffed animals that have been stuffed animals, these kid beds. Yeah.
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Like just, yeah. Cut up bullets, bullet holes everywhere. So anyway, yeah, no, these people
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are just buying islands because they want party islands. And then, you know, other people are
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covering it saying, oh, they think the end of the world is coming and the passports saying, come on,
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that's not going to do you any good in a real apocalypse. I think people just kind of, for some
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people, it seems like a kind of hobby to pick up more passports. I think it's the bunker people that
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are actually thinking about this, but I think one of the reasons why I think they are
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planning for social instability is that a lot of the conversations are circling around the
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private security forces. For example, this Marxist who was flown out to advise a small group of like
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five millionaires and billionaires about their bunker strategy writes, finally, the CEO of a brokerage
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house explained that he had nearly completed building his own underground bunker system and asked,
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how do I maintain authority over my security force after the event? The event. That was their
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euphemism for the environmental collapse, social unrest, nuclear explosion, solar storm, unstoppable
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virus, and malicious computer hack that takes everything down. The single question occupied us
00:18:52.520
for the rest of the hour. They knew armed guards would be required to protect their compounds from
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raiders as well as angry mobs. One had already secured a dozen Navy SEALs to make their way to his
00:19:01.340
compound if he gave them the right cue. But how would he pay the guards? Or once even crypto was
00:19:07.740
worthless, what would stop the guards from eventually choosing their own leader? The billionaires considered
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using special combinations of locks and food supply that only they knew, or making guards wear
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disciplinary collars of some kind in return for their survival, or maybe building robots to serve as
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guards and workers, if that technology could be developed in time. So like, okay, so these, at least
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these people who are dumb enough to hire a Marxist to help them with their survival strategy,
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who are building bunkers and stuff are really concerned about security. Yeah, they are concerned
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about social unrest. They are concerned about people attacking them. When we would say, I mean, I hope
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anyone who knows our channel would say what we would say if we had a lot of money, is that the skills
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needed in a good leader are going to change during this time period. And you should build a system
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that allows the society that you're building to elect the best leader. It doesn't need to be
00:19:59.840
you. You don't need to control. You're just lucky to survive the apocalypse. And after that, it's about
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building a strong culture. And you should be happy if one of the Navy SEAL guards is running everything,
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if they're a benevolent and good leader, you should focus much more on good governance than you should
00:20:16.620
focus on, if we did write the Pragmatist Guide to Governance, then you should focus on trying to
00:20:21.120
maintain power yourself. And great example of this. So in China, by the way, this is a great story.
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So when the CCP was coming to power, there was, you know, the government before it, I forget what
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they were called, Shanghai Sheck's government was falling apart. And one of the mayors, I want to say
00:20:38.720
was the mayor of one of the major cities, took all his money and put it in his car, like in gold
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bricks, right? Oh, I love this story. And he, he, he just filled this like limousine with gold bricks
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and he got in and he had his limo driver drive him out of the city. Apparently like right at the city
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limits, the limo driver took him out of the car, shot him and drove off with a limo full of gold
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bricks because it's why you don't matter anymore. I got a limo full of gold bricks here. You've been a
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dick to me. And this is the problem with these people is they haven't engendered the respect of the
00:21:12.860
people around them in terms of how they've made their money and how they spent their money,
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which is very antithetical to the way we live. Like if you look at the way that we put money into
00:21:23.260
our community and stuff like that, the idea that anyone in our community would betray us like this,
00:21:28.520
and it's not like small amounts, like this is the problem. You don't give your community like a
00:21:32.900
pittance or something like that, because if you do that, then yeah, they still have a lot of,
00:21:36.840
so one, never give your community less than what they deserve to have the same advantages as somebody
00:21:45.080
was in your family, right? Because then you're building a community of people who are like,
00:21:48.200
I genuinely appreciate you guys. But on top of that, and we've had this, like we've mentioned
00:21:54.040
to the community, like it'll come up sometimes like, oh, this person has mentioned killing us
00:21:58.400
online. And they're like, I, they better not fucking come here. So that's, that's, you know,
00:22:03.500
one thing is, is, is your, you, you need to actually be a good person and actually reinvest
00:22:09.040
in your community. Well, at least on a bureaucratic basis. But the other thing is don't have things
00:22:15.140
that are worth taking. Within a system like this, like within our house, we have nothing that's
00:22:19.760
worth stealing. We have computers that'll be like, like literally the most expensive things we have
00:22:24.300
in our house or our technology, but it's all going to be worse.
00:22:28.500
Even our laptops are not like, like mine is four years old, three, three years old. Like,
00:22:35.500
yeah, none of it. Like even our, our, our screens, like our bigger, like screen, like in the kitchen
00:22:42.260
is so shitty. I don't think anyone would even take it. Cause it's like, I could imagine them
00:22:47.300
trying to turn it on and like waiting the five minutes it takes for it to load, you know, and
00:22:51.080
being like, Hmm. We have like five sets of the same outfit. That's not particularly useful.
00:22:56.500
You don't have no one steals clothes or jewelry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess a lot of it's
00:23:02.700
just, but I mean, but hold on, like in the apocalypse though, what these people are afraid
00:23:06.880
of having stolen is just like literally their food, their clean water, their supplies, like
00:23:15.020
And I think what you need then is the thing that really protects you is by having a system
00:23:19.720
centered around you or your property or something you have built that is stable and that people
00:23:26.120
want to participate in. That's the thing you want to be the one, if not stable democracy,
00:23:33.380
because I actually don't think democracies are particularly good governing systems. And again,
00:23:37.120
read the pragmatist guide to governance, if you're interested in this, but be the system where people
00:23:40.660
can be fairly certain that they, the, the best people, that the most meritocratically competent
00:23:46.300
people are going to be promoted within that system to the, to, to a good position. And that
00:23:51.680
people was in that system or want for less than other systems. And then people are like,
00:23:55.060
well, what about the angry, non-meritocratically competent people? Well, the great thing is that
00:23:59.120
that if you, like, if you sap the surrounding area of all the meritocratically competent people,
00:24:04.560
then you don't need to worry about the other groups in the area because the meritocratically
00:24:08.140
competent people will find ways to defend your settlement. So at that point, it's mostly just
00:24:12.420
about having the ammunition and the guns and stuff like that, that can be distributed competently
00:24:16.580
by whatever governance system you set up. I will say one of the, the, I know bunkers that we have been
00:24:21.740
invited to uses AI kill drones. So they wouldn't have this problem. We'd have to.
00:24:27.920
Yeah. I mean, I think we're really like maybe just a few years away from most people being able to
00:24:33.980
like commercially set up AI drones to defend their property, which is like, and that would change a lot
00:24:41.000
like that plus a good solar flare protected solar energy system. And, um, you know, some other like
00:24:50.940
energy supplies would probably do the trick. Right. Yeah. No, but I mean, I do find the AI kill drone
00:24:57.020
thing. Interesting. It's a system where they've got a, an area of farmland and it's enough to support
00:25:02.680
the people who would be coming there. And then like a silo and the silo has the drone flying kill drones.
00:25:10.120
Yeah. Uh, to protect the, the area, which makes a lot of sense. I mean, people would be like, well,
00:25:16.320
that can't be operational constantly because they need to recharge. And it's like, well, it doesn't
00:25:20.140
need to be operational constantly. It needs to be operational a few times before people realize that
00:25:25.440
you do not attack this settlement. And you put the people who you care about dying less on the
00:25:30.520
outskirts of the settlement and the people you care about dying more on the inside of the settlement.
00:25:35.420
Yep. Uh, very different settlement planning practices than you would have historically
00:25:39.600
when you, you can earn land and stuff like that by labor or by, by contributing to the settlement
00:25:45.940
schools. Um, but here's, okay, here's the big bus that I think this group is missing that like,
00:25:52.760
I think you and I always bring up with our friends when they tell us their bunker plans is that like,
00:25:57.840
realistically, yeah, I mean, it's good to have an emergency plan. And I think this is part of just
00:26:03.720
being like, everyone should have a good emergency plan as a part of a healthy balanced diet. You
00:26:09.220
should know what to, you know, you should know CPR, you should know how to, how to get your kids safe.
00:26:14.420
If they start choking on something and all that, right. Put out a fire and you should know what to
00:26:18.520
do if, if suddenly like global infrastructure collapses or, you know, there's a climate apocalypse or
00:26:23.600
whatever, but like the real, the real thing is demographic collapse. The real thing is the future
00:26:31.320
of human civilization. The real thing is all that. And I think, uh, you know, another group that gets
00:26:36.400
put into this category of doomsday preppers are people like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk who are trying
00:26:46.040
to get humans off planet. Right. We're like, let's go to Mars. Let's, let's go to the, you know,
00:26:50.240
let's get off the earth. And that is, that is not the thing like these, that is about saving
00:26:58.200
civilization. That is not about saving their asses. Right. Yeah. People are like, oh, they want to
00:27:03.020
scurry off this sinking ship was like, like rats off of, and it's like, I'm sorry, you idiot Marxists
00:27:08.800
are the ones who thunk this ship. Okay. You are the sign of the rot in society and that they have
00:27:14.140
chosen not to take you shows that. And when this comes to one of the things of wealth in our society
00:27:21.300
and it's something that I just, it disgusts me that people don't get this. So there are ways to
00:27:28.460
make wealth that is unethical. I agree with that. There are ways to like play the market where it's
00:27:33.520
just, you know, showing intellectual superiority over other people. Okay. I get that. If you look at the
00:27:38.320
wealthiest people in our society and you're not including women, it's mostly people who are in their
00:27:42.580
own money. So what does it really mean to earn your own money in our society today? I'm side of
00:27:47.160
a few isolated scenarios. It's like saying, okay, you can, you can get paid for one of two things.
00:27:53.220
You can be a factory worker, like an incremental factory worker and get paid for the incremental
00:27:57.580
productivity that you as a factory worker gave to that factory. Or you can be a person who allows
00:28:02.900
five people to do the job in the factory that 10 people used to be able to do. And people are like,
00:28:08.540
well, how can this person be making, you know, more hours of work than I could work if I was working
00:28:14.140
from the time of Jesus to today? And I'm like, that's how, that's how, because they're literally
00:28:18.200
adding more productivity than you could add to the world working from the time of Jesus to today.
00:28:22.400
And they deserve that money because of that. That is how the vast majority of ultra, ultra,
00:28:27.560
ultra wealthy people are making so much money. This is super underrated. I just want to emphasize
00:28:31.560
this because like, there are all these shows out there about like rich families and rich people.
00:28:36.720
And a lot of them just sort of frame them as incredibly dumb, incredibly unethical. Like it's
00:28:43.560
clear that these are written by people who hate capitalism and hate wealth. And like, I'm thinking
00:28:49.320
about, for example, like these are the most irredeemable, unethical, terrible, antisocial people
00:28:55.360
out there. And like the vast majority of wealthy people, certainly the ones that we've met are good
00:29:03.020
pro-social people who care about making the world a better place, who are kind and patient and good
00:29:10.660
to others. They're a little burned from being constantly attacked by society, but it's clear
00:29:14.600
that they at least started with a positive heart for society. And like, okay, for example, Jeff Bezos,
00:29:19.400
right? Like a lot of people are like, oh, what a horrible person. Amazon, like the, the quality
00:29:25.840
difference. If you didn't live in the pre-Amazon world, the quality difference that Amazon makes
00:29:31.740
to my life every day. If you're talking about like time saved, if you're talking about like the amount
00:29:38.220
of incremental, they're like, how could he make as much as like, like, like, like, like literally,
00:29:43.640
I think he probably gives every American citizen two hours extra time every day.
00:29:57.300
30 minutes a day, at least. 30 minutes a day for every American citizen is enormous.
00:30:03.540
If you're talking about like productivity increases in our economy. If you gave him 30 minutes of our
00:30:13.820
Then that gets a lot more interesting because you're like, oh, that's less than what he's probably
00:30:18.460
actually making, you know? And at that point you're like, okay, I get it now. Right.
00:30:23.580
Just people are unwilling to recognize how little they add to the world compared to other people.
00:30:31.380
They want to pretend that everyone's adding the same things to the world. And that's just not true.
00:30:35.540
And in a communist system that distributed wealth fairly, people like him would still be getting
00:30:43.120
But communists didn't. Communist systems intentionally end up sabotaging more competent people. And
00:30:47.940
there's like a whole, you can read the Pragmatist Guide to Governance.
00:30:51.800
And you're describing communist as in the ones that have actually been executed. Like we've,
00:30:57.300
we've come to understand that communism in theory, the concept of communism is, it actually requires
00:31:04.480
like a science fiction world that doesn't exist yet, which is basically like post-AGI, post-scarcity,
00:31:12.460
post-singularity. And then totally you can have communism. I think the problem is that like
00:31:17.560
the bunch of people decided that they were going to try it without like the fundamental necessary
00:31:22.620
principles being there. So that's what you're describing.
00:31:26.080
I mean, obviously the telescoping history concept that was invented by Lenin, which shows to an extent
00:31:29.960
you're right there. But I don't think that's like, I don't think that those things are necessary for
00:31:34.840
communism. And like, like, I think that communism works on a small scale.
00:31:38.780
Oh, it totally does. Yeah. But I don't think communism as described by the great communist
00:31:42.600
thinkers was meant to be applied only at the family level, for example. So.
00:31:48.400
Yeah. Okay. Anyway, it was great. This is a great conversation, Simone. We'll see how many
00:31:52.520
people we piss off with it. That's how we judge the quality of, of how based we are, you know?
00:31:57.680
I think we've already gotten rid of most of the Marxists at this point, but we'll see.
00:32:02.240
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