Based Camp - What Does Paradise Look Like？

00:00:00.000 But here's really interesting.

00:00:01.040 When people go into fantasy worlds, right?

00:00:04.760 This I find really interesting.

00:00:06.460 The most persistent fantasy world concept,

00:00:10.000 you know, like in D or D or something like that,

00:00:12.420 is you was a group of people who are diverse,

00:00:16.620 meaningfully diverse often,

00:00:18.560 like they're actually different

00:00:19.920 and who you actually get along with

00:00:22.100 are working to change something

00:00:25.400 that ends up impacting the future of that entire universe.

00:00:30.000 That that fantasy that you get

00:00:33.660 was in the most commonly created fantasy world

00:00:37.560 actually falls into this model that we have

00:00:41.840 of what true happiness comes from.

00:00:43.960 But most people would never intentionally sign up for that.

00:00:47.120 Like not for the world

00:00:47.820 because it's a lot of work and it's scary

00:00:49.140 and they might have to sleep outside.

00:00:51.500 Fox might chew on their head.

00:00:53.080 Would you like to know more?

00:00:55.980 Malcolm Collins, hello.

00:00:58.480 Hello, Simone Collins.

00:01:00.460 I love you to death.

00:01:01.780 And today we are going to talk about

00:01:03.520 what I think is an interesting topic

00:01:05.360 that I was musing on.

00:01:06.760 So I was watching one of these shows, right?

00:01:09.840 Where they have the, you know,

00:01:11.860 the island made of gold or the city of gold, right?

00:01:14.640 And it really got me thinking about,

00:01:16.680 okay, so if you go to an island

00:01:17.920 where there's a city of gold or gems

00:01:19.400 or something like that,

00:01:20.300 you know, the classic trope is

00:01:21.500 you get to this place

00:01:22.740 and obviously the signs that we now associate

00:01:25.300 with status and luxury

00:01:27.280 don't actually bring you any happiness.

00:01:29.000 They're not actually of utility

00:01:30.380 within this island

00:01:31.540 because they are so abundant.

00:01:34.720 And then it got me thinking about

00:01:36.360 utopias throughout history

00:01:38.360 and what would a utopia be

00:01:40.260 within our modern context?

00:01:42.000 So historically,

00:01:43.660 one of the most common types of utopia,

00:01:45.660 and I think that this is the one

00:01:47.060 that's really talked about in the Bible,

00:01:48.440 is a land where whenever you plant crops,

00:01:52.280 they always grow.

00:01:53.040 Like this is the Garden of Eden, right?

00:01:54.420 So it's a land where you can always have food,

00:01:57.340 like food isn't scarce,

00:01:58.960 but you still have to put in

00:02:00.320 some level of work for that food.

00:02:02.640 You know, they had the,

00:02:04.280 at least as much foresight

00:02:05.660 to understand a land

00:02:06.660 where just food appears

00:02:07.680 as soon as you want it.

00:02:09.020 That wouldn't be satisfying.

00:02:10.900 That would be a nightmare.

00:02:13.120 Even to these early people,

00:02:15.760 they were quickly able

00:02:16.920 to understand that concept.

00:02:18.480 But today,

00:02:19.900 if you just had a land

00:02:20.880 that produced food

00:02:21.540 whenever you put stuff in it

00:02:23.060 or food you could work for,

00:02:24.520 I guess on a treadmill

00:02:25.260 and then food exists,

00:02:26.500 I think most people would find that

00:02:27.440 to be a dreadfully boring

00:02:29.240 and uninteresting

00:02:30.520 and disengaging place.

00:02:33.100 So then this started to frame for me.

00:02:34.680 Okay, what is a utopia these days?

00:02:38.440 What does a utopia look like these days?

00:02:41.580 So I want to hear your thoughts first.

00:02:43.520 First, I think utopias

00:02:44.960 are more defined by

00:02:46.180 an absence of things

00:02:48.160 that people don't want.

00:02:49.700 I think about the song

00:02:52.260 Big Rock Candy Mountain,

00:02:53.640 which a lot of people

00:02:54.420 were introduced to

00:02:55.540 by Oh Brother Where Art Thou?

00:02:57.680 And like the lyrics...

00:02:58.880 No, no, no.

00:02:59.560 Way more people

00:03:00.480 were introduced to it by Flapjack.

00:03:02.360 I don't know what Flapjack is.

00:03:03.620 What is Flapjack?

00:03:04.800 Flapjack is a cartoon.

00:03:06.240 So the team that worked on Flapjack

00:03:08.040 then went on to create

00:03:09.120 like tons of shows

00:03:10.300 that we now know.

00:03:11.680 Hold on.

00:03:12.240 I am actually freaking out about that.

00:03:14.160 Yeah, it's fine, Malcolm.

00:03:15.200 It's fine.

00:03:15.620 I don't get out much

00:03:17.240 or even go online much apparently.

00:03:19.160 Okay, okay.

00:03:19.640 The regular show,

00:03:20.600 Adventure Time,

00:03:21.340 Gravity Falls,

00:03:22.360 Bravest Warriors,

00:03:23.240 Steven Universe,

00:03:24.320 Craig's Creek,

00:03:25.220 OKKO,

00:03:26.360 Summer Camp Island,

00:03:27.940 Hilda,

00:03:28.620 Amphibia,

00:03:29.520 Owl House,

00:03:31.460 Midnight Sun,

00:03:31.600 Bravest Warriors.

00:03:31.660 Okay, I haven't heard about

00:03:32.360 most of these,

00:03:33.680 so I'm not feeling bad anymore.

00:03:34.960 It was a very important show

00:03:36.600 in the history of the season.

00:03:36.940 I'm not a child.

00:03:37.860 I don't watch cartoons.

00:03:40.000 I do because they're great.

00:03:42.540 Okay.

00:03:42.980 Yes, they are.

00:03:43.800 And I love that you watch cartoons

00:03:45.300 and our children love you for that too.

00:03:48.120 Anyway,

00:03:48.880 this is originally a folk song

00:03:51.220 that was more about the life

00:03:53.200 of someone who rides the rails,

00:03:54.840 like a bum,

00:03:55.520 essentially,

00:03:56.180 a vagabond.

00:03:57.340 So it's like all the things

00:03:59.940 that are in this utopia,

00:04:02.220 the big rock candy mountain,

00:04:03.820 is like food availability

00:04:05.140 and law enforcement

00:04:06.760 is very feckless.

00:04:07.800 All the cops have wooden legs.

00:04:09.160 The jails are made of tin.

00:04:10.940 They're really easy to get out of.

00:04:12.580 And, you know,

00:04:13.100 there's booze in lakes

00:04:14.640 and stuff grows on trees

00:04:16.240 and chickens lay soft-boiled eggs,

00:04:18.120 that kind of thing.

00:04:18.800 So food abundance.

00:04:20.100 But, you know,

00:04:20.360 so I think that a lot of people,

00:04:21.680 if they were to describe their utopia,

00:04:23.160 they'd be like,

00:04:23.800 well, there isn't bosses

00:04:25.220 or anything they hate.

00:04:26.540 You know,

00:04:26.760 there is no cancer.

00:04:28.220 And so...

00:04:29.040 Well, no,

00:04:29.860 and I think that this is actually

00:04:31.300 really important

00:04:32.180 when we think about...

00:04:33.380 So this question

00:04:34.120 isn't an idle question.

00:04:35.660 Yeah.

00:04:36.060 Because what this shows

00:04:37.360 is that when people

00:04:38.660 state what they're striving for

00:04:41.700 in life,

00:04:42.760 it's typically to not deal

00:04:45.380 with the things

00:04:46.120 that are bothering them

00:04:47.200 most in the moment.

00:04:48.820 However,

00:04:49.320 if they actually achieved

00:04:50.960 an absence of those things,

00:04:52.980 they would not be happy

00:04:54.640 with what they achieved.

00:04:56.400 So they can say,

00:04:57.720 oh, it's bosses that are terrible

00:04:59.740 or it's, you know,

00:05:01.000 law enforcement that's terrible

00:05:02.400 or it's not having food

00:05:03.660 whenever I want it

00:05:04.360 that's terrible.

00:05:05.200 And they get all those things.

00:05:06.500 So this is one thing

00:05:07.080 that you and I

00:05:07.580 have consistently seen

00:05:08.420 because we hang out

00:05:09.000 with a lot of very wealthy people,

00:05:11.140 very unhappy,

00:05:12.500 very wealthy people.

00:05:13.720 And I'd actually argue

00:05:15.120 that from the wealthy communities

00:05:17.640 we know very frequently,

00:05:19.380 and I think that this is something

00:05:20.420 that's not caught in happiness

00:05:21.900 or well-being surveys

00:05:22.860 that show them as being,

00:05:24.320 you know,

00:05:24.520 more happy on average

00:05:25.500 because there's all these things,

00:05:26.580 you know,

00:05:26.800 I want to do the money.

00:05:27.660 Yes,

00:05:27.940 but they also have

00:05:29.160 a deep ennui to them

00:05:30.760 where it's very clear

00:05:32.220 that they thought

00:05:33.020 they would sort of reach the end

00:05:35.740 of some sort of quest

00:05:37.220 they were on

00:05:37.780 once they achieved

00:05:38.460 a certain amount of wealth,

00:05:41.060 but it doesn't buy them

00:05:42.920 the answers that they sought.

00:05:45.440 And of the wealthy people,

00:05:46.640 we know that the individuals

00:05:47.920 who still seem to be

00:05:48.800 the most happy

00:05:49.520 and mentally alive

00:05:50.720 are the ones

00:05:51.940 who are still sort of questing

00:05:53.600 and that they're questing

00:05:54.640 for something other

00:05:55.380 than just more wealth

00:05:56.440 because there's a certain type

00:05:57.700 of wealthy individual,

00:05:58.580 and these are often

00:05:59.380 the saddest ones

00:06:00.440 where they achieve

00:06:01.500 some level of wealth.

00:06:02.900 It doesn't get them

00:06:04.000 this finality

00:06:04.920 or happiness

00:06:06.000 that they thought

00:06:06.640 they would get.

00:06:07.760 And so then they immediately

00:06:08.820 go back out there

00:06:09.720 and try to achieve more wealth

00:06:11.160 because they think,

00:06:11.820 well,

00:06:12.000 maybe it's just

00:06:12.520 I don't have enough.

00:06:13.480 You know,

00:06:13.700 maybe 10 million isn't enough.

00:06:15.220 Maybe a billion isn't enough.

00:06:16.380 Maybe I need infinitely

00:06:17.240 more than this.

00:06:18.620 And it never comes to them.

00:06:21.420 Yeah.

00:06:22.020 So there's that.

00:06:24.100 And so what you're saying

00:06:25.360 is the things

00:06:25.800 that people expect

00:06:26.440 will make them happy,

00:06:27.340 will not make them happy.

00:06:28.120 But what I'm also saying

00:06:29.060 is that people

00:06:29.920 don't even really know

00:06:30.920 what's going to make them happy

00:06:32.040 along your lines.

00:06:32.960 They really only know

00:06:33.900 what they don't want.

00:06:35.020 Oh,

00:06:35.220 I don't like

00:06:35.660 another great one

00:06:36.040 is I think you can see

00:06:36.800 like,

00:06:37.100 well,

00:06:37.620 things that you don't

00:06:38.140 have enough of

00:06:38.520 in the moment.

00:06:38.960 So like,

00:06:39.840 you know,

00:06:39.980 when I was younger,

00:06:40.420 I would have thought

00:06:40.940 lots of sex.

00:06:41.720 If I got to the point

00:06:42.540 where I could just get

00:06:43.080 anyone I want to

00:06:43.700 to sleep with me,

00:06:44.760 that I would be happier.

00:06:46.380 I would be gratified with that.

00:06:48.480 But when I did achieve

00:06:50.120 that point in life,

00:06:51.140 you know,

00:06:51.480 I mentioned in a video

00:06:52.200 that we can't post now

00:06:53.260 that I got to a point

00:06:54.220 where it was Patrick,

00:06:58.120 if they point to anyone

00:06:58.940 in this bar

00:06:59.480 and I'll get their number

00:07:00.660 and get them to follow up with me.

00:07:02.500 And I was able to do that

00:07:03.320 really consistently at that point.

00:07:04.540 And I'd just gotten so good

00:07:05.740 at that particular game in life.

00:07:08.280 And all of those,

00:07:09.400 that time I spent learning

00:07:10.500 how to get people

00:07:11.120 to have sex with me,

00:07:11.640 now it's just completely useless.

00:07:12.880 Now that I'm married

00:07:13.800 with a useless skill.

00:07:15.000 Not true.

00:07:15.520 It's now sales skills

00:07:17.080 and fearless.

00:07:17.780 Well, yeah,

00:07:18.140 it is sales skills and stuff.

00:07:20.020 But then it gets so gross

00:07:21.920 once you realize

00:07:23.260 it's not a challenge.

00:07:24.800 That sex begins

00:07:25.800 to feel really disgusting

00:07:27.320 when it is not a challenge

00:07:29.100 for you anymore.

00:07:30.340 And I think so many things

00:07:31.920 in life are like that.

00:07:33.340 As soon as they are not a challenge,

00:07:35.680 they become,

00:07:36.680 and I wonder if the same is true

00:07:38.200 for social gratification.

00:07:40.700 So we know a lot of,

00:07:41.940 or a lot of wealthy people

00:07:42.740 after they make their wealth

00:07:43.420 seem to redirect

00:07:44.120 a lot of their money

00:07:45.000 is to try to get

00:07:46.640 social gratification

00:07:47.720 or to try to get social approval

00:07:49.640 from a group that they respect.

00:07:51.640 Is that what Utopia looks like?

00:07:53.280 A group where you're constantly

00:07:54.300 getting social approval

00:07:55.360 from people you respect?

00:07:56.520 Or constantly earning it?

00:07:58.420 But if it's easy to earn,

00:07:59.860 does it still have value?

00:08:01.040 I want to hear more.

00:08:03.480 Yeah.

00:08:04.340 Oh.

00:08:05.640 I mean,

00:08:06.380 what are the happiest?

00:08:08.660 I mean, okay.

00:08:09.280 So for the happiness researchers

00:08:10.820 out there,

00:08:11.300 like they sort of show

00:08:12.260 that there are these

00:08:13.100 overall traits

00:08:14.700 that seem to be associated

00:08:16.440 with happiness.

00:08:17.020 Like having kids

00:08:18.160 gives you a bump.

00:08:19.160 Being in a good marriage

00:08:20.260 gives you a bump.

00:08:21.260 Of course,

00:08:21.500 being in a bad marriage

00:08:22.540 is way worse than

00:08:23.540 being in no marriage at all.

00:08:24.720 You know,

00:08:25.720 being healthy helps.

00:08:27.820 But I,

00:08:28.460 yeah,

00:08:28.860 I really feel like

00:08:31.320 whenever people

00:08:32.940 get what they want,

00:08:33.740 yeah,

00:08:33.860 they're going to,

00:08:34.340 they're going to find

00:08:34.900 that there's something

00:08:35.540 that they're dissatisfied with.

00:08:37.460 I wonder if religiosity

00:08:38.700 would be,

00:08:40.100 would be

00:08:41.560 a good sign of it.

00:08:42.960 But I don't know.

00:08:43.400 I also think about

00:08:44.240 Dante's Inferno.

00:08:45.160 I don't think you actually

00:08:45.720 read the books,

00:08:46.380 but I'm very,

00:08:47.140 I've listened to,

00:08:48.180 to like 48 hours

00:08:49.700 of lectures.

00:08:50.400 Okay,

00:08:50.820 so hell is really

00:08:51.840 interesting,

00:08:52.440 right?

00:08:52.680 And then purgatory

00:08:53.340 is kind of,

00:08:54.320 kind of interesting.

00:08:55.240 And then you get to heaven

00:08:55.980 and it's so boring.

00:08:57.740 Heaven is about

00:08:58.460 how far away

00:08:59.160 you are from God.

00:09:00.280 Yeah.

00:09:00.940 Yeah.

00:09:01.300 And that's the way

00:09:02.100 that many Christian faiths

00:09:03.780 have taken on

00:09:04.520 the concept of heaven.

00:09:05.680 That it is no longer

00:09:07.040 about like happiness

00:09:08.460 as we understand it

00:09:09.860 on earth,

00:09:10.660 but it's about

00:09:11.680 closeness to the divine.

00:09:13.780 Yeah.

00:09:13.980 And many individuals

00:09:15.540 define the divine

00:09:16.960 as like a form of good

00:09:19.260 or a form of

00:09:20.840 positive emotional state,

00:09:22.940 which is undefinable.

00:09:25.040 And then they don't need

00:09:26.380 to like actually

00:09:27.100 ask this question

00:09:27.740 because they're just like,

00:09:28.280 oh, it's that emotional state,

00:09:29.540 the emotional state

00:09:30.260 that I can't describe

00:09:31.220 because when you can't

00:09:32.000 describe it,

00:09:32.520 you can't criticize it.

00:09:33.440 You can't,

00:09:34.580 you know,

00:09:34.820 begin to pick apart

00:09:35.800 why,

00:09:36.660 well,

00:09:37.300 if you just had that

00:09:38.220 in infinite excess

00:09:39.160 all the time,

00:09:39.980 it would begin to not

00:09:40.920 feel as great as it does

00:09:42.140 because they see it

00:09:43.920 as something

00:09:44.400 that axiomatically

00:09:46.380 cannot be overdelivered.

00:09:48.200 So I suppose

00:09:48.860 that's an easy way

00:09:49.760 to answer the question,

00:09:50.560 but it doesn't really work

00:09:51.660 from our perspective.

00:09:52.920 Okay.

00:09:53.080 What about a totally secular

00:09:54.860 Maslow's hierarchy of needs?

00:09:56.780 So like at the top

00:09:57.680 of the pyramid,

00:09:58.140 you would suppose

00:09:58.980 that's where utopia

00:10:00.040 would focus,

00:10:00.720 which is self-actualization.

00:10:02.540 But what does that mean?

00:10:04.300 What is self-actualization?

00:10:06.680 Well,

00:10:07.020 so it's an interesting thing

00:10:08.120 because I,

00:10:08.820 like when I look at our lives,

00:10:10.020 we are so beyond

00:10:11.020 self-actualization

00:10:12.200 that I would see

00:10:13.000 that as almost like

00:10:13.620 a starting point

00:10:14.600 for our world philosophy.

00:10:16.500 It's just so easy.

00:10:17.260 Self-actualization

00:10:18.200 is the bottom

00:10:18.720 of our pyramid.

00:10:19.660 I,

00:10:20.000 you know,

00:10:20.400 let's,

00:10:20.940 let's just point out

00:10:21.660 we see that from a lot of,

00:10:22.740 you know,

00:10:23.160 privilege.

00:10:23.660 Like we don't deal

00:10:25.420 with food insecurity.

00:10:26.220 We are not in a war-torn area.

00:10:28.000 Yeah.

00:10:28.160 We're lucky

00:10:28.940 to be in this position.

00:10:29.820 We're,

00:10:30.280 we're sexually secure

00:10:31.620 married couple.

00:10:33.060 So we don't apparently

00:10:34.700 like people that much.

00:10:35.860 We don't care that much

00:10:36.740 about social approval.

00:10:37.840 I don't know.

00:10:38.360 I wouldn't say

00:10:39.000 that it's like easy to master.

00:10:40.160 I guess I would say,

00:10:41.600 and this is something

00:10:42.220 that you always say

00:10:43.180 is that the true happiness

00:10:44.700 when you're saying like,

00:10:45.700 what is actual true happiness?

00:10:47.660 Yes.

00:10:48.160 That it only,

00:10:49.220 the meaningful kind

00:10:49.920 only comes from

00:10:51.220 efficaciously pursuing values

00:10:53.600 that you really believe.

00:10:55.080 Yeah.

00:10:55.400 Yeah.

00:10:55.680 Yeah.

00:10:55.960 Totally.

00:10:56.260 But the,

00:10:57.200 the interesting thing

00:10:58.840 is with that being

00:11:01.280 your source

00:11:02.380 of true durable happiness,

00:11:03.880 you actually already live

00:11:06.660 in a utopia

00:11:07.480 because it's a world

00:11:10.420 where you are capable

00:11:11.460 of pursuing the things

00:11:13.040 that you think have value

00:11:14.320 in a meaningful context

00:11:15.780 in any sort of island-based scenario,

00:11:18.720 any sort of scenario

00:11:20.960 that separated you

00:11:22.380 from your ability

00:11:23.280 to,

00:11:23.940 in a challenging context,

00:11:25.920 impact the future

00:11:27.340 of human civilization

00:11:28.340 would in a way

00:11:29.980 be a nightmare,

00:11:30.760 almost a brain

00:11:31.380 and a bat nightmare,

00:11:32.380 anything that cuts you off.

00:11:33.920 Yeah.

00:11:34.300 So potential

00:11:36.000 for long-term

00:11:38.080 durable impact

00:11:40.080 that matters

00:11:40.980 is your utopia,

00:11:42.740 which is interesting

00:11:43.520 because you're sort of

00:11:44.540 already living

00:11:46.420 in that utopia

00:11:47.380 by living

00:11:48.100 in a challenging world

00:11:49.540 at an inflection point.

00:11:51.380 Yeah.

00:11:51.900 100%.

00:11:52.700 But I think

00:11:53.940 a lot of utopia

00:11:54.860 is defined

00:11:55.900 by hedonic comfort

00:11:57.500 and not happiness.

00:11:59.360 Do you think

00:12:00.160 that's accurate?

00:12:01.300 I mean,

00:12:01.540 I think that's how

00:12:02.040 it is historically,

00:12:02.860 but I don't think

00:12:03.260 that that's the way

00:12:03.740 we would view it

00:12:04.260 going forwards.

00:12:05.140 I mean,

00:12:05.300 I think,

00:12:05.760 you know,

00:12:06.680 if you talk to anyone

00:12:07.620 with a sophisticated worldview,

00:12:09.040 they understand

00:12:09.800 how quickly

00:12:10.460 hedonic happiness

00:12:11.320 was in,

00:12:11.980 because hedonic happiness,

00:12:13.180 people are like,

00:12:14.040 yeah,

00:12:14.160 just general hedonic happiness,

00:12:15.440 but when you,

00:12:16.480 hedonic happiness

00:12:17.100 comes within different,

00:12:18.660 what's the word

00:12:19.880 I'm looking here,

00:12:20.920 sort of verticals.

00:12:22.160 It comes in

00:12:22.800 different verticals

00:12:23.840 and whenever you

00:12:25.360 max out

00:12:26.400 one of those verticals,

00:12:27.340 whether it's sex

00:12:27.980 or food

00:12:28.560 or,

00:12:29.160 you know,

00:12:30.160 even a runner's high,

00:12:31.240 you know,

00:12:31.540 it's going to become

00:12:33.600 rote after a while

00:12:34.860 and you can

00:12:36.640 test out

00:12:37.700 different verticals

00:12:39.240 and maybe find one

00:12:41.680 that your biology

00:12:42.400 doesn't have protections

00:12:43.440 against maxing out.

00:12:44.420 I mean,

00:12:44.540 our biologies

00:12:45.240 are basically coded

00:12:46.420 to have protections.

00:12:47.640 They are meant

00:12:48.280 to max out

00:12:49.020 many of these verticals

00:12:50.380 because they don't want you

00:12:51.320 to pointlessly

00:12:51.960 spend your life

00:12:52.800 doing something

00:12:53.360 that has begun

00:12:53.980 to lose efficaciousness.

00:12:55.280 So,

00:12:57.060 yeah,

00:12:57.520 I think that it's,

00:12:59.160 but I think that most people

00:13:00.360 have like maybe one vertical

00:13:01.580 their body hasn't coded out

00:13:02.800 so that they continue

00:13:03.740 to gain gratification

00:13:04.980 from it.

00:13:05.740 But what's interesting

00:13:06.460 is I don't think

00:13:07.040 the body ever

00:13:07.800 loses gratification

00:13:08.960 from meaningfully

00:13:11.220 and incrementally

00:13:13.000 achieving goals

00:13:14.900 that

00:13:15.600 move your

00:13:18.400 sort of intrinsic

00:13:19.780 value system forwards.

00:13:21.340 And that can be

00:13:22.240 your religious system

00:13:23.500 or that can be

00:13:24.060 the things that you think

00:13:24.940 matter in the world.

00:13:26.120 Which was really

00:13:26.980 the point of our first book,

00:13:28.000 The Pragmatist Guide to Life,

00:13:29.180 is helping people

00:13:30.060 determine for themselves

00:13:31.200 what those value systems were

00:13:32.720 because they think

00:13:33.300 that when somebody

00:13:33.700 tells you externally

00:13:35.300 these are the things

00:13:36.140 that have value,

00:13:36.680 these are the things

00:13:37.180 that don't have value.

00:13:38.220 It's very hard

00:13:38.900 to take that seriously.

00:13:41.240 Something else

00:13:42.000 on this subject

00:13:42.640 that I think is interesting

00:13:43.580 is how

00:13:45.020 one person's utopia

00:13:47.260 is another person's dystopia.

00:13:49.060 Like when I read

00:13:50.200 Brave New World

00:13:51.180 for a college class,

00:13:52.900 I got super excited

00:13:53.880 to go into class

00:13:54.640 and talk about it

00:13:55.500 because I was like,

00:13:56.420 this world?

00:13:57.300 Like everyone

00:13:58.200 is designed

00:13:58.940 to be perfectly optimized

00:14:01.120 for and happy

00:14:02.220 with the work

00:14:02.780 that they have

00:14:03.560 and everyone's

00:14:04.000 really good

00:14:04.460 at the work they do

00:14:05.160 when they die

00:14:05.700 when they're young

00:14:06.580 and no one has a,

00:14:07.920 everyone has cool

00:14:08.880 helicopters

00:14:09.460 and scented showers.

00:14:10.720 This is the coolest

00:14:11.460 thing ever!

00:14:12.760 And I go to class

00:14:13.840 and everyone's like,

00:14:14.420 oh, this dystopia.

00:14:16.040 Oh, how scary.

00:14:17.340 How horrible.

00:14:18.160 How inhumane.

00:14:19.260 And I'm like,

00:14:20.200 whoa,

00:14:20.960 like,

00:14:21.840 we're what?

00:14:23.700 And I just,

00:14:24.540 I think that this is also

00:14:25.360 is more universal

00:14:27.200 with utopias

00:14:28.060 than you might think

00:14:28.940 because,

00:14:29.840 for example,

00:14:30.780 you know,

00:14:31.140 that many people

00:14:31.780 would like to have

00:14:32.720 an Islamic caliphate

00:14:33.940 or like a Catholic system

00:14:36.340 that rules over

00:14:36.900 the entire world.

00:14:37.780 And for many people,

00:14:38.560 that is the utopia,

00:14:39.580 right?

00:14:39.740 You're not going to get utopia

00:14:40.760 until everyone is part

00:14:42.140 of this religion

00:14:42.700 or everyone lives

00:14:43.380 this particular way.

00:14:44.700 You could argue progressives

00:14:45.760 probably wouldn't think

00:14:46.680 utopia exists

00:14:47.440 until everyone on Earth

00:14:48.360 sort of lives

00:14:49.080 the progressive lifestyle

00:14:50.040 and holds progressive beliefs.

00:14:52.240 But then for many other people,

00:14:53.240 that'd be a huge dystopia.

00:14:55.100 This is really interesting.

00:14:56.140 So the predominant

00:14:56.980 cultural group

00:14:57.640 in our society,

00:14:58.860 this is something

00:14:59.360 we talk a lot about

00:15:00.280 in our video on villains.

00:15:01.540 My husband is a villain,

00:15:02.600 I think,

00:15:03.120 is what we call the episode.

00:15:04.520 It's very interesting.

00:15:05.800 That almost axiomatically,

00:15:07.380 it's going to punish

00:15:08.660 and frame as negative

00:15:09.980 anything that presents

00:15:12.220 a worldview

00:15:12.840 that is entirely different

00:15:14.360 from its worldview,

00:15:16.320 right?

00:15:16.680 And so it,

00:15:18.380 within movies

00:15:19.200 and everything like that,

00:15:20.420 it's always going to

00:15:21.740 show a better world

00:15:23.600 as being a world

00:15:24.340 that was structured

00:15:24.920 very similar to our world,

00:15:26.700 just with less of the things

00:15:29.860 that people don't want

00:15:30.440 in their daily life.

00:15:31.320 Like maybe everything's

00:15:32.420 a bit cheaper,

00:15:33.080 maybe everyone has

00:15:33.960 a government income,

00:15:35.120 maybe, you know,

00:15:36.280 everyone's a bit happier,

00:15:37.480 but it certainly won't allow you

00:15:39.140 to completely restructure society

00:15:40.920 into like casts

00:15:41.940 that are genetically engineered

00:15:43.540 like you would have

00:15:44.180 in Brave New World.

00:15:45.020 when I do think

00:15:46.760 that that world

00:15:48.120 actually does fulfill

00:15:49.800 most of what

00:15:52.160 the average person

00:15:53.420 would say

00:15:54.100 the perfect society

00:15:55.080 would do,

00:15:55.860 you know,

00:15:56.160 that you would have

00:15:56.780 less unhappiness,

00:15:57.840 that people would have

00:15:58.660 more purpose in their life,

00:15:59.760 that you would have less...

00:16:00.460 There's a purpose,

00:16:00.940 there's leisure,

00:16:02.140 it has everything.

00:16:04.480 Like, they don't call them

00:16:05.600 helicopters.

00:16:06.740 Even great sling,

00:16:07.880 things aren't cool,

00:16:08.600 they're pneumatic.

00:16:09.620 But it's a different world.

00:16:11.480 And it might also be

00:16:12.880 that this is a world

00:16:13.760 where you can't

00:16:14.520 as easily impact

00:16:16.660 the future of society anymore

00:16:19.140 as an individual.

00:16:19.520 If you're an alpha,

00:16:20.240 you can,

00:16:20.820 and if you're a beta

00:16:21.520 or a delta,

00:16:22.240 you don't care.

00:16:23.080 You should do that

00:16:23.460 as a program not to,

00:16:24.200 but here's really interesting,

00:16:25.200 when people go into

00:16:26.300 fantasy worlds,

00:16:28.040 right,

00:16:28.360 this I find really interesting.

00:16:30.640 The most persistent

00:16:32.080 fantasy world concept,

00:16:34.180 you know,

00:16:34.420 like in D or D

00:16:35.220 or something like that,

00:16:36.580 is you

00:16:37.460 was a group of people

00:16:39.060 who are diverse,

00:16:40.800 meaningfully diverse often,

00:16:42.720 like they're actually different,

00:16:44.460 and who you actually

00:16:45.440 get along with

00:16:46.280 are working

00:16:47.280 to change something

00:16:49.580 that ends up

00:16:50.660 impacting the future

00:16:51.900 of that entire universe.

00:16:54.240 That that fantasy

00:16:56.520 that you get

00:16:57.840 was in the most

00:16:58.700 commonly created

00:17:00.220 fantasy world

00:17:01.740 actually falls

00:17:03.440 into this model

00:17:04.700 that we have

00:17:06.060 of what true happiness

00:17:07.460 comes from.

00:17:08.020 But most people

00:17:08.660 would never

00:17:09.240 intentionally sign up

00:17:10.880 for that,

00:17:11.300 like not for the world

00:17:12.000 because it's a lot of work

00:17:12.820 and it's scary

00:17:13.320 and they might have to

00:17:14.200 sleep outside,

00:17:15.660 and a fox might

00:17:16.300 chew on their head.

00:17:17.160 I mean,

00:17:17.420 God, you know.

00:17:17.720 Well, so without real risk,

00:17:19.080 I suppose,

00:17:19.920 is part of this.

00:17:21.500 Yet,

00:17:21.840 I think if many people

00:17:23.060 felt like

00:17:23.860 if by taking risk,

00:17:25.480 they at least knew

00:17:26.600 that they could

00:17:27.160 potentially change

00:17:28.320 the direction

00:17:29.000 of civilization,

00:17:30.640 they would still

00:17:31.580 take that risk.

00:17:32.640 They just don't

00:17:33.280 believe it's possible.

00:17:34.700 So to matter.

00:17:35.600 You think utopia

00:17:36.420 is a world

00:17:37.040 in which you could matter.

00:17:38.860 Yes.

00:17:40.100 Yes,

00:17:40.520 that's exactly it.

00:17:41.580 But you today,

00:17:43.140 you live

00:17:44.620 in the collapse

00:17:45.740 of one of the

00:17:46.620 dominant social systems

00:17:48.020 that have existed

00:17:48.680 for a very long time,

00:17:51.500 probably the most

00:17:52.440 widespread on Earth.

00:17:54.360 Yeah,

00:17:55.200 so we actually

00:17:55.780 get to matter now.

00:17:57.000 Great Western empire.

00:17:59.020 You actually

00:18:00.500 could matter.

00:18:02.280 You actually

00:18:03.020 could be

00:18:04.260 one of the people

00:18:05.000 that transitions

00:18:05.980 this Rome

00:18:09.000 from a democracy

00:18:10.220 to an empire

00:18:11.120 or whatever phase

00:18:13.040 comes next for us

00:18:14.340 or maybe no phase

00:18:15.700 comes for us.

00:18:16.340 But it is kind of cool

00:18:17.380 to live

00:18:18.240 during this particular

00:18:20.400 inflection point

00:18:21.460 in human history

00:18:22.300 and through that

00:18:23.920 every single person

00:18:25.000 who's listening to this

00:18:26.100 in a way

00:18:27.080 was born into

00:18:28.680 a utopia.

00:18:31.300 Yeah,

00:18:31.900 yeah,

00:18:32.200 I mean,

00:18:32.380 yeah,

00:18:32.500 everyone who's privileged

00:18:33.180 enough to listen

00:18:33.840 to this podcast

00:18:34.420 probably,

00:18:35.040 yeah,

00:18:35.400 has the agency

00:18:36.480 and intelligence

00:18:37.720 and ability

00:18:38.480 to be one of those

00:18:39.420 people that matters.

00:18:40.540 I was also thinking

00:18:41.720 recently because I was asking

00:18:42.720 like,

00:18:43.020 what do you want,

00:18:43.600 Simone?

00:18:43.740 Like,

00:18:43.940 what am I not giving you

00:18:45.400 in your life right now

00:18:46.760 that I could give you

00:18:47.500 more of?

00:18:48.480 Business class flights

00:18:49.400 everywhere,

00:18:49.980 baby.

00:18:50.440 That's all I'm saying.

00:18:51.500 We can't afford it.

00:18:52.340 I know it's,

00:18:52.820 what?

00:18:53.840 This is class flights

00:18:54.740 everywhere.

00:18:55.900 Class flights?

00:18:56.880 Business class flights.

00:18:58.360 Oh,

00:18:58.760 business class flights.

00:18:59.600 My poor,

00:19:00.200 bony ass

00:19:01.380 cannot handle coach.

00:19:03.480 It's too expensive.

00:19:05.700 This is my struggle.

00:19:06.560 I mean,

00:19:06.580 technically we can afford

00:19:07.580 business class flights.

00:19:08.520 It's just every time

00:19:09.180 we're doing it,

00:19:09.820 I like lay out

00:19:10.660 this much money

00:19:11.600 could go to charity

00:19:12.440 or this much money

00:19:13.720 could go to you.

00:19:14.580 And I'm always,

00:19:14.940 I know.

00:19:15.580 And then we book

00:19:16.300 like the lowest of coach

00:19:18.700 basic economy.

00:19:19.960 I am sorry

00:19:22.480 I torture you

00:19:23.460 even though we could

00:19:24.400 easily afford

00:19:25.120 business class flights.

00:19:25.820 But,

00:19:26.300 okay,

00:19:26.680 so here's what

00:19:28.260 I want to know

00:19:29.400 with you.

00:19:30.980 You know,

00:19:31.220 I'm always like,

00:19:31.760 is it more jewels?

00:19:33.580 Is it more cards?

00:19:34.240 It's business class flights.

00:19:37.080 But Simone,

00:19:37.700 I'm asking you.

00:19:37.860 No,

00:19:38.280 I literally have,

00:19:39.700 I don't want any more jewelry.

00:19:41.260 I don't want,

00:19:42.660 I,

00:19:43.140 like we literally have

00:19:44.940 everything we want.

00:19:46.160 Even the chickens.

00:19:47.380 Even the chickens.

00:19:48.300 Aside from more kids.

00:19:49.260 We want more kids.

00:19:50.040 That's like huge.

00:19:51.740 I guess that's the one luxury

00:19:52.840 we don't have

00:19:53.420 is enough kids.

00:19:54.340 Yeah,

00:19:54.540 and I think you want

00:19:55.520 more reach,

00:19:56.400 right?

00:19:56.660 Your utopia is one

00:19:58.140 of more impact.

00:19:59.620 You actually want.

00:20:00.100 I mean,

00:20:00.480 if I could trade things,

00:20:02.280 if I could pay for things,

00:20:03.140 it would be more reach.

00:20:04.260 It would be more,

00:20:05.520 our message reaching

00:20:06.920 more people because,

00:20:08.240 but that goes to

00:20:08.980 this traditional view

00:20:10.140 of the view of happiness

00:20:11.660 that I was saying,

00:20:12.400 which is that you're actually

00:20:13.260 potentially impacting

00:20:14.160 the future of civilization.

00:20:15.240 I mean,

00:20:15.360 we're trying to build tools

00:20:16.440 to do that.

00:20:17.340 So our school system

00:20:18.580 and stuff like that

00:20:19.360 and in that way

00:20:20.060 I am living in a utopia

00:20:21.380 where my work

00:20:22.060 actually matters.

00:20:23.300 Yeah.

00:20:23.620 But the degree

00:20:24.420 to which it matters,

00:20:25.320 you know,

00:20:26.100 can always increase

00:20:27.680 going forward.

00:20:28.800 Yeah.

00:20:29.280 I think about

00:20:30.020 our daily life.

00:20:31.980 What could we have

00:20:33.020 that would be better?

00:20:34.200 You know,

00:20:34.680 what could I have

00:20:35.380 in a relationship

00:20:36.100 that would be better?

00:20:37.000 It would be nice

00:20:37.740 if our chickens

00:20:38.300 actually laid eggs.

00:20:40.320 I'm going to punch them

00:20:41.340 so hard.

00:20:42.000 I think they're just

00:20:42.920 too young, Simone.

00:20:45.480 You know,

00:20:46.020 they have developed combs.

00:20:48.400 When I put my hand

00:20:49.320 on their backs,

00:20:49.880 they sit down

00:20:50.580 like they're ready

00:20:51.060 to be mounted.

00:20:51.720 They're ready to go

00:20:52.760 and they're holding out.

00:20:55.540 You want me to go

00:20:56.640 give them a slap?

00:20:58.480 I'm going to throw

00:20:59.180 the rooster in with them

00:21:00.040 and see what happens,

00:21:00.640 but I think they're going

00:21:01.140 to beat them up.

00:21:01.660 Anyway.

00:21:02.220 Yeah, no, no.

00:21:02.780 We really have everything.

00:21:03.800 I do think that you're right

00:21:05.040 that mattering matters,

00:21:06.120 but also,

00:21:06.680 I don't know.

00:21:07.080 If we were to talk

00:21:07.800 with a lot of people,

00:21:09.060 if we were to ask

00:21:09.780 a random neighbor

00:21:10.600 or like a random person

00:21:12.520 on the street,

00:21:13.360 I don't think

00:21:14.560 that's what they would say.

00:21:15.720 I think they would say

00:21:16.600 my utopia is

00:21:18.820 they would,

00:21:19.840 if I model

00:21:20.720 the average person

00:21:21.480 and I'm sure

00:21:22.040 most of our listeners

00:21:23.000 would agree,

00:21:24.300 my utopia

00:21:24.920 is just spending time

00:21:26.180 with my family

00:21:27.040 and having fun

00:21:29.380 and that might be

00:21:30.220 like you could

00:21:30.920 substitute friends

00:21:31.720 for family,

00:21:32.360 like spending time

00:21:33.080 with people I love

00:21:34.060 and just having fun,

00:21:35.200 you know,

00:21:35.420 like floating down a river

00:21:36.460 and drinking beer

00:21:37.320 or like playing tennis,

00:21:38.820 playing video games

00:21:39.560 all day.

00:21:39.920 Like that's what

00:21:40.980 I think they would say.

00:21:42.600 That's something

00:21:43.200 that they can't really spam.

00:21:44.800 When you're around

00:21:45.760 very wealthy people

00:21:46.760 a lot,

00:21:47.260 which we are,

00:21:48.040 they do spam

00:21:49.160 those things

00:21:49.820 and trust me,

00:21:50.860 they do not gain

00:21:51.840 happiness from them anymore.

00:21:53.420 I mean,

00:21:53.620 they keep doing them

00:21:54.600 because what they-

00:21:55.820 Do you have to first do that?

00:21:57.200 Do you have,

00:21:57.560 is there some kind of like

00:21:58.380 purgatory version

00:21:59.360 of our heaven

00:22:00.740 where like before you get to heaven

00:22:02.220 and you actually try

00:22:03.060 to make an impact on the world,

00:22:04.180 do you have to experience

00:22:05.000 the emptiness

00:22:05.680 of abundance

00:22:06.520 and leisure?

00:22:09.800 I think,

00:22:11.400 yeah,

00:22:11.640 if I was going to convey

00:22:12.560 one thing to my kids

00:22:13.800 more than anything else,

00:22:15.100 it would be

00:22:15.700 the absolute emptiness

00:22:18.240 of abundance and leisure.

00:22:19.340 But I don't think

00:22:19.880 you can just tell someone that.

00:22:21.040 I think they have

00:22:21.660 to experience it.

00:22:23.800 Well,

00:22:24.340 I'm going to be honest.

00:22:25.100 I think this is the way

00:22:25.800 Great Gatsby

00:22:26.420 is one of the great novels.

00:22:28.480 It's not a particularly good

00:22:30.080 or interesting novel.

00:22:30.400 I think people missed the point.

00:22:31.660 Like when the Great Gatsby movie

00:22:32.860 came out,

00:22:33.780 like the best parts of it

00:22:34.960 were idolizing

00:22:36.220 Fancy Life.

00:22:37.900 It,

00:22:38.020 you know,

00:22:38.360 it was,

00:22:38.800 nothing came through

00:22:40.400 on the emptiness.

00:22:41.240 Something that's persistent

00:22:41.780 throughout the novel

00:22:42.500 is how little happiness

00:22:43.940 he gets from all of this.

00:22:45.780 And all of the people

00:22:46.560 who are trapped-

00:22:47.100 He just comes across

00:22:47.920 as mopey.

00:22:48.840 It doesn't seem obvious

00:22:50.200 to me as a reader.

00:22:51.120 Well, he has set

00:22:51.280 a specific goal for himself

00:22:52.820 and his progress

00:22:54.000 towards that goal,

00:22:54.860 getting Daisy if you can,

00:22:55.820 and it is the only source

00:22:56.560 of happiness he has.

00:22:57.380 Wasn't Daisy his cousin though?

00:22:59.460 Well, but you also know-

00:23:00.400 So as a reader,

00:23:01.140 you're just assuming

00:23:01.800 this is a family

00:23:02.780 with a huge genetic

00:23:04.020 like predisposition

00:23:05.140 to deep depression.

00:23:05.940 And you also know that

00:23:06.600 once he achieves that,

00:23:07.760 he also won't be happy

00:23:08.980 with it.

00:23:09.920 Yeah,

00:23:10.100 because the

00:23:10.500 Inci's mopey.

00:23:11.740 They're all genetically mopey.

00:23:14.020 They're all genetically mopey.

00:23:15.520 I don't think it's that

00:23:16.340 they're genetically mopey.

00:23:17.340 I have seen a lot of people

00:23:18.600 who don't seem genetically mopey

00:23:20.260 and once they become rich,

00:23:21.680 they begin to exhibit

00:23:22.840 that form of ennui.

00:23:26.340 Especially if they indulge in it

00:23:27.740 in the way that people

00:23:28.880 like he indulge in it,

00:23:30.760 where they have tons

00:23:31.600 and tons of parties,

00:23:32.680 where they eat tons

00:23:33.620 and tons and tons.

00:23:34.340 But I think this is like the,

00:23:36.200 you have to go through,

00:23:38.340 you know,

00:23:38.560 remember in your book

00:23:39.560 on sexuality,

00:23:40.120 you found that sort of

00:23:40.780 the only way that actually

00:23:41.800 one could pray the gay way

00:23:42.900 is by subjecting a gay person

00:23:44.880 to just tons of gay sex,

00:23:46.160 just like all the orgies,

00:23:47.220 all the orgies.

00:23:47.820 And then finally,

00:23:48.360 they'd be like,

00:23:48.600 oh, I'm done.

00:23:49.620 I think that it's very similar

00:23:51.000 with abundance,

00:23:52.520 that like until you just

00:23:53.540 shove abundance

00:23:54.280 in someone's face for a while

00:23:55.660 and they for themselves

00:23:57.160 experience it,

00:23:58.380 no one is going to

00:23:59.120 take your word for it.

00:24:00.680 No one is going to say,

00:24:01.680 oh, yeah,

00:24:02.340 I bet you're right.

00:24:03.800 You know,

00:24:04.080 I mean,

00:24:04.300 sure,

00:24:04.540 there are certainly people

00:24:05.320 who are like,

00:24:05.840 I live my humble,

00:24:07.200 my humble,

00:24:08.360 simple life

00:24:09.020 because I know

00:24:10.140 that it's empty.

00:24:11.340 But if they really

00:24:11.920 had a chance to jump

00:24:13.220 at like significant wealth

00:24:14.640 and privilege,

00:24:15.580 you know,

00:24:15.860 they would jump at it

00:24:16.760 like in a hot second.

00:24:17.740 It's a sour grapes thing.

00:24:18.940 I don't know.

00:24:19.380 I just.

00:24:19.720 How do we convey to our kids?

00:24:21.700 I mean,

00:24:21.840 do you think they just

00:24:22.540 won't believe it?

00:24:23.220 We can try.

00:24:23.600 We send them to like rich camp.

00:24:25.680 I don't know.

00:24:26.080 We somehow get them

00:24:27.920 to experience

00:24:28.780 some heavy period

00:24:31.840 of luxury

00:24:32.920 and then let them

00:24:34.980 let just let that soak in.

00:24:36.540 I don't know how

00:24:37.180 we're going to make that happen.

00:24:38.280 Holidays are about.

00:24:38.880 Like maybe we could create

00:24:39.820 some sort of a feasting holiday

00:24:40.980 where they get.

00:24:41.440 Oh, my gosh.

00:24:42.020 Is that what holidays are about?

00:24:43.980 I mean,

00:24:44.400 because, yeah,

00:24:44.760 keep in mind,

00:24:45.220 like for thousands of years,

00:24:46.700 I mean,

00:24:47.180 a huge thing with holidays

00:24:48.760 has been heavy feasting.

00:24:50.800 I mean,

00:24:50.980 obviously there are reasons for it.

00:24:52.280 Like you have to go through food

00:24:53.400 that's going to spoil soon.

00:24:54.520 The problem is,

00:24:55.780 is it doesn't work

00:24:56.900 in just one day.

00:24:58.020 You need to have access

00:24:59.020 to everything you could ever want.

00:25:01.040 Often holidays lasted for a week,

00:25:02.860 you know,

00:25:03.060 like a festival week.

00:25:04.060 I mean,

00:25:04.320 you know,

00:25:04.540 these things.

00:25:05.420 Yeah,

00:25:05.580 I think it was enough

00:25:06.500 like to really just kill you.

00:25:09.400 You know,

00:25:10.040 it could be a coming of age ritual

00:25:11.300 we do with our kids.

00:25:12.740 Yeah.

00:25:13.000 Where they just live like

00:25:14.140 that would make it

00:25:15.140 financially possible,

00:25:17.060 I suppose.

00:25:18.260 Yeah.

00:25:18.420 Like this can't be something that lasts,

00:25:19.960 but I kind of,

00:25:20.540 I like that idea.

00:25:21.360 But yeah,

00:25:21.680 I hope.

00:25:22.520 If you could have anything

00:25:23.520 you wanted to the maximum degree,

00:25:26.700 but it can't be persistent things

00:25:28.080 that they continue to own

00:25:28.920 after this period.

00:25:29.920 So they can,

00:25:30.580 we can rent a luxury car for them.

00:25:32.280 We can,

00:25:32.740 you know,

00:25:33.020 et cetera.

00:25:33.700 And it's even more possible

00:25:34.660 now than ever.

00:25:35.300 There are all these tier brands

00:25:36.240 that will let you

00:25:37.440 like have a monthly subscription

00:25:39.300 where you can get

00:25:39.740 a certain number of outfits.

00:25:40.780 Yeah.

00:25:40.960 We could kind of lean into this.

00:25:42.420 There's just a certain thing.

00:25:43.580 Did it actually feel good?

00:25:45.380 Yeah.

00:25:45.980 Yeah.

00:25:46.360 We just can't do like private flights.

00:25:48.520 For some reason,

00:25:49.140 aviation is just

00:25:50.180 extremely unaffordable.

00:25:52.080 No,

00:25:52.320 that is the thing

00:25:53.340 that I can't get over.

00:25:54.280 You're like business class

00:25:55.440 is the one thing I care about.

00:25:56.560 No,

00:25:56.940 we really care about that.

00:25:57.560 It's like $8,000 extra

00:25:59.280 for a two hour,

00:26:00.640 three hour thing.

00:26:01.380 No,

00:26:02.240 aviation is crap now.

00:26:04.260 I just want to never travel again.

00:26:05.580 Let's just never get on a plane again.

00:26:07.340 We'll take a boat.

00:26:07.800 We do run a travel company.

00:26:09.300 Can we take boats?

00:26:10.640 Let's take boats.

00:26:12.000 You have a no boats clause

00:26:13.580 in our marriage.

00:26:14.720 Yeah,

00:26:14.920 no,

00:26:15.320 get a cruise.

00:26:16.360 I want a floating dystopia.

00:26:17.760 I don't want to freaking.

00:26:18.960 I want a floating dystopia.

00:26:20.820 That's what a cruise is to you.

00:26:22.120 I love it.

00:26:22.740 And it's true.

00:26:23.880 It is true.

00:26:24.600 Actually,

00:26:25.100 cruises are a form

00:26:26.120 of this infinite luxury.

00:26:27.320 I would say.

00:26:28.340 Oh,

00:26:28.520 we'll just take them on a cruise.

00:26:31.040 Yes.

00:26:32.280 That'll be perfect.

00:26:33.380 Yeah.

00:26:33.780 And then they'll still do it.

00:26:34.760 also I think

00:26:35.320 people have different

00:26:36.320 genetic predilections

00:26:37.220 because I think some people

00:26:38.080 they go on cruises

00:26:38.660 and they keep wanting to go back

00:26:39.980 and we don't.

00:26:41.060 Oh yeah.

00:26:41.240 And they just,

00:26:41.780 they go hashtag cruise life.

00:26:43.220 We met a lot of people like that.

00:26:44.460 That was a peculiar experience.

00:26:46.380 They ate the lotuses

00:26:47.820 or the land of the lotus eaters

00:26:49.200 and they lost their,

00:26:50.120 they lost their songs.

00:26:50.800 But I,

00:26:51.260 as I said,

00:26:51.840 the weirdest thing for me

00:26:52.720 when we went on a cruise

00:26:53.480 is when I used to go on a kid,

00:26:54.640 it was always a great experiment

00:26:55.540 to sleep with a lot of people

00:26:56.540 because

00:26:57.020 it was an environment

00:26:58.160 where I was around

00:26:58.660 a lot of new people.

00:26:59.780 I had an excuse

00:27:00.300 to talk to new people.

00:27:01.540 So I basically got

00:27:02.640 an entirely new slate

00:27:03.920 of girls every time I go

00:27:05.780 and going this time,

00:27:07.120 you know,

00:27:07.360 my instinct every time,

00:27:08.260 okay,

00:27:08.420 well,

00:27:08.560 I've got to go to this event

00:27:09.520 and this event.

00:27:09.980 And I was like,

00:27:10.380 I guess I don't want that anymore.

00:27:13.040 So why am I here?

00:27:14.880 I could eat whatever I guess.

00:27:17.320 What am I doing here

00:27:18.740 if I'm not just here

00:27:20.040 to play this little status game

00:27:22.100 that I thought had value

00:27:23.240 and I realized

00:27:24.320 didn't have value.

00:27:25.460 So yeah,

00:27:28.340 it's interesting.

00:27:30.100 I mean,

00:27:30.400 we can look at today

00:27:31.400 the world's wealthiest person,

00:27:33.880 Elon Musk.

00:27:34.600 Like what does he do,

00:27:35.540 right?

00:27:35.740 Like he goes out

00:27:37.700 and tries to solve

00:27:38.980 the world's problems

00:27:39.740 over and over and over again.

00:27:41.000 What he thinks

00:27:41.580 the world's problems are

00:27:42.460 while also accumulating

00:27:44.060 public attention

00:27:44.800 towards themselves

00:27:45.460 through things like Twitter.

00:27:47.240 I think that he is

00:27:49.380 working towards

00:27:50.300 efficaciousness

00:27:51.180 within both of the pathways

00:27:52.400 that we identified

00:27:53.420 as being durable sources

00:27:55.600 of happiness

00:27:56.240 when you can have

00:27:57.020 anything you want.

00:27:58.300 Well,

00:27:58.500 and he used to live

00:27:59.460 a very luxurious life

00:28:01.100 and he had multiple

00:28:02.400 insane mansions

00:28:03.880 and crazy,

00:28:05.160 crazy parties.

00:28:05.920 And then he went from that

00:28:07.320 to like sleeping

00:28:08.460 on the couches

00:28:09.380 of friends' homes

00:28:10.220 and living in,

00:28:10.960 you know,

00:28:11.800 gross tract homes,

00:28:12.620 sleeping under his desk

00:28:13.760 at the office.

00:28:14.520 Clearly,

00:28:15.380 you know,

00:28:16.620 luxury is not everything for him.

00:28:18.960 Well,

00:28:19.240 because the struggle

00:28:19.660 provides durable

00:28:20.440 sensitive happiness

00:28:21.300 even within our

00:28:22.100 internal narratives.

00:28:23.300 Yeah.

00:28:24.840 And I also find

00:28:26.020 that I'm less effective

00:28:26.940 when I'm in these

00:28:27.520 total luxury environments.

00:28:28.860 Oh,

00:28:29.020 it's just gross.

00:28:30.000 Yeah,

00:28:30.300 you feel yourself

00:28:31.340 forgotten.

00:28:32.520 Because,

00:28:32.760 you know,

00:28:32.960 we'd go spend time

00:28:33.900 with like family members

00:28:35.320 and stuff like that

00:28:36.140 where we'd have to like

00:28:36.880 hang out in mansions

00:28:37.720 and stuff.

00:28:38.300 And we never got

00:28:39.240 anything done.

00:28:40.260 You begin to feel gross.

00:28:42.080 It's a bit like

00:28:42.920 the feeling that you get.

00:28:45.020 Have you ever had a food

00:28:45.940 that was like

00:28:46.640 too fatty

00:28:47.340 or too sugary

00:28:48.540 and then afterwards

00:28:49.820 you just sort of feel

00:28:50.920 ick afterwards?

00:28:52.400 I don't know

00:28:52.980 if you guys can relate

00:28:54.080 to what I'm talking about here.

00:28:55.600 Or too oily,

00:28:56.460 like a pizza

00:28:56.920 that just had

00:28:57.580 too much oil on it.

00:28:59.440 And then

00:28:59.980 for a while afterwards

00:29:01.580 you're just like

00:29:02.080 ugh.

00:29:03.200 Imagine if

00:29:04.140 every social interaction

00:29:05.800 began to feel that way.

00:29:07.020 All of life

00:29:08.060 began to just drip

00:29:09.580 with this

00:29:10.560 ugh.

00:29:11.440 And it slows you down

00:29:13.500 in your ability

00:29:14.400 to effectively work.

00:29:15.640 And I think that's why

00:29:16.520 Musk intentionally

00:29:17.480 removes himself

00:29:18.340 from those environments

00:29:19.520 when he's working.

00:29:20.940 Yeah.

00:29:21.300 It just feels

00:29:22.100 terribly gross.

00:29:23.260 Terribly gross.

00:29:25.020 Yeah.

00:29:25.680 I enjoyed this conversation.

00:29:26.960 At least in terms

00:29:27.580 of my aesthetic

00:29:28.420 daily life

00:29:29.460 you have created

00:29:30.080 a paradise for me.

00:29:31.440 You know,

00:29:31.840 I have a birthday

00:29:32.400 coming up

00:29:32.940 and she's like

00:29:33.420 well what do you want?

00:29:34.120 And I'm like

00:29:34.560 literally nothing.

00:29:35.980 No man,

00:29:36.420 I nailed it.

00:29:36.980 I nailed it this time.

00:29:38.740 Oh,

00:29:39.140 I'm really excited.

00:29:39.720 The last time

00:29:41.280 I wish I could show

00:29:42.960 a picture of this.

00:29:44.540 I got from her

00:29:45.760 and this was so amazing.

00:29:47.500 It was

00:29:47.800 she commissioned

00:29:48.740 two portraits

00:29:49.600 of me playing

00:29:50.240 with our kids

00:29:50.740 and then she got

00:29:51.280 a bunch of

00:29:51.680 limbs cleaners made

00:29:52.800 with these portraits

00:29:54.040 on them.

00:29:55.020 And it was so cute

00:29:56.120 because it was

00:29:56.680 really personal to me.

00:29:58.040 It was me doing

00:29:58.500 something with my kids

00:29:59.220 which I care about

00:29:59.900 and I'm always

00:30:00.880 losing my limbs cleaners

00:30:02.080 and I always

00:30:02.500 so it

00:30:03.400 it just

00:30:04.140 on every level

00:30:05.280 I showed

00:30:05.760 both care

00:30:06.860 to the things

00:30:07.700 I aspire for

00:30:08.820 the things

00:30:09.420 that are important

00:30:09.900 to me daily

00:30:10.540 and the little

00:30:11.820 smallest of inconveniences

00:30:14.360 that eat at me

00:30:15.380 every day

00:30:16.160 and you were able

00:30:17.200 to see those

00:30:18.380 and try to

00:30:19.600 help me with those

00:30:20.460 and I really

00:30:20.800 appreciate it.

00:30:21.080 Yeah, FYI folks

00:30:21.840 you can get

00:30:22.400 custom lens cleaners

00:30:24.080 on Etsy

00:30:24.860 or Art Corgi

00:30:26.640 Art Corgi

00:30:28.180 is

00:30:28.400 we literally

00:30:29.500 started a commission

00:30:30.520 website called

00:30:31.220 artcorgi.com

00:30:32.260 which is where

00:30:32.920 I get commissions

00:30:33.780 from Malcolm

00:30:34.160 but no

00:30:34.620 okay

00:30:34.880 it's not a commission

00:30:35.420 this year

00:30:35.780 but I still think

00:30:36.260 you're going to like it

00:30:37.000 I know I'm going to like it

00:30:38.720 you give incredible gifts

00:30:41.060 you do

00:30:42.080 and you listeners

00:30:43.640 you can guess

00:30:44.320 what the gift

00:30:44.800 is going to be

00:30:45.360 and I'll let you know

00:30:46.660 when I get it

00:30:47.220 am I allowed

00:30:47.740 to let them know?

00:30:48.860 Yeah, totally

00:30:49.440 I love you

00:30:53.320 I'm looking forward

00:30:53.960 to our next conversation

00:30:54.760 already

00:30:55.140 Thank you

Based Camp - September 26, 2023

What Does Paradise Look Like？

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