Based Camp - What is a Woman？

00:00:00.000 But what I think is the true answer, because I think that there's no true answer can mean many different things.

00:00:05.000 There's your answer, the cultural relativistic one. Now you're saying there's a true answer?

00:00:09.780 Yeah.

00:00:10.400 Okay.

00:00:10.740 There's many different ways. So all the ways you could determine if someone was a woman, right?

00:00:14.640 You could say, well, XX chromosome, XY chromosome. Oh, they pass. Oh, they self-identify as a woman. 0.92

00:00:22.540 Oh, a woman is whatever would make them happiest if they were called the woman. 0.99

00:00:28.480 Yeah, it's what they want to be called. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:00:29.840 Yeah, a woman is whether they can have kids. There's many, many, many, many different ways. 1.00

00:00:34.320 A woman is a state of mind. 1.00

00:00:35.960 That you can determine this, right? And in different cultures, elevate different interpretations of gender above other interpretations of gender.

00:00:45.280 So what's the right answer?

00:00:47.480 Okay.

00:00:47.740 Now, the true answer, the actual true answer, like if you're just stripping all of the tradition away.

00:00:55.520 Glad you're solving this problem all in one podcast.

00:00:58.240 Would you like to know more?

00:01:00.260 Hey, hey, Malcolm. What is a woman? 0.61

00:01:03.800 So, yeah, this is a spicy question, Simone.

00:01:06.660 Yeah.

00:01:06.980 I was in this trans-maxing. I was talking in the trans-maxing discord with the trans-maxing community. 0.90

00:01:12.620 For people who aren't familiar with the trans-maxing community, they are individuals who transition not because, or at least they don't think that transitioning needs to be tied to gender dysphoria, but they think that it makes sense for some men to transition for social advantage.

00:01:28.560 Yeah. So basically transition for gain or gender euphoria, not just gender dysphoria.

00:01:33.240 Yeah. And I like it because what I like about the community is they're expanding the concept and they're pissing off traditional trans communities. 0.99

00:01:40.620 Those are the two things I like.

00:01:41.980 I don't know. Am I terrible for having so much fun when like extremist progressive communities get pissed off at somebody just for asking questions they're not allowed to ask?

00:01:49.700 They're like, hey, I'm a guy and I feel pretty oppressed in society today. Am I allowed to transition?

00:01:55.380 No!

00:01:56.920 Yeah, that's the most trans-phobic question anyone can ask. How dare you think about doing that? You're so privileged.

00:02:03.420 So I do love that they're breaking down these things and they asked at the end of this thing, what is a woman?

00:02:08.720 Because, you know, there's this video, what is a woman, which good video has been recommended to us by smart people. 1.00

00:02:14.300 And I think it shows a real toxic parts of the trans movement, which, let's be honest, has some real toxic parts. 1.00

00:02:22.700 But I had never actually considered the question myself until it was proposed to me in the context of this group meeting.

00:02:29.680 And so I had to come up with an answer on the spot and I was really satisfied with my answer, but it's not one that I had come up with before.

00:02:36.120 Oh, really?

00:02:36.880 So, Simone, first, I want to hear if you, what your answer is, unbiased by me to this question.

00:02:44.300 Right. So, to me, I mean, obviously there's not a good answer for this, but for me, a woman is someone that I see on the street and I'm like, oh, look at that woman. 0.99

00:02:56.660 So if you pass, whether it's intentional or not, you're a woman or a man.

00:03:02.460 So if you count men who just look extra girly, you just look extra girly, are not trying to look extra girly as women.

00:03:09.420 Yeah. Yeah. Like there, there can be a, a natal man who just looks extremely femme, not intentionally.

00:03:15.340 And I'm like, oh, what a pretty girl. But same, same with, you know, natal women who just happen to look really boyish. 1.00

00:03:21.280 Like, you, you are, you are what people interpret you to be.

00:03:26.680 Yes.

00:03:26.860 So you judge womanhood as in the eye of you as the perceiver, because your brain is categorizing everyone you see into either male or female.

00:03:35.420 And the way it handles that categorization, you say, because everyone's brain does this.

00:03:40.500 I should be clear. Even people who are like, I am the most gender understanding person in the world.

00:03:45.940 Brain's gender.

00:03:46.260 They definitely have an assumption when they first see somebody of what gender that person identifies.

00:03:51.440 And they'd be like, okay, I'm not sure.

00:03:53.700 But what you're saying is from your perspective, gender is whatever your brain innately categorizes people as from your perspective.

00:04:05.260 Well, and this is, I think this is, it works for me too, because male and female traits, you know, hormonal levels, et cetera, are averages.

00:04:13.920 Right. And so there are, there are women who have way more testosterone, way more other like male traits than men. 0.96

00:04:20.000 And there are men who have like way more female traits than women.

00:04:23.260 Even Spencer Greenberg, like created this like quiz you can take.

00:04:26.460 It sort of shows you cognitively where you trend gender wise toward like male or female averages.

00:04:32.080 Did you do it?

00:04:33.340 Yeah, I came off as like genderless, I think.

00:04:36.500 Just like neither.

00:04:37.900 But you would come off as probably a hyper, hyper masculine because of sort of the, like dominant approach that you take to things.

00:04:43.660 But yeah, like my point though, is like, you know, even, even a, a, a natal male or female may be outside the averages for the, the gender they were born into or the sex they were born into.

00:04:54.960 I, I like your interpretation.

00:04:56.820 I'll tell you what my answer was.

00:04:58.160 All right.

00:04:58.340 Yes.

00:04:58.800 Because I think it's actually the correct answer.

00:05:01.100 Oh, I said that the concept of man and woman is completely a social construct.

00:05:10.840 Come out.

00:05:11.640 No, hold on.

00:05:12.620 Hold on.

00:05:13.700 It is, it changes depending on the cultural group you're looking at the question from.

00:05:20.240 I mean, you're right.

00:05:20.920 Different cultural groups have different answers to this question.

00:05:24.840 Okay.

00:05:25.380 Okay.

00:05:25.740 You know, so like if I'm from a conservative Muslim group, right.

00:05:31.020 They famously, if somebody is born same sex attracted, they basically force them to gender transition.

00:05:36.680 It means you're a woman.

00:05:37.780 And to them, yeah, that's a woman.

00:05:39.000 If I was born same sex attracted, I'd be a woman.

00:05:40.920 So it's like your sex is determined in that culture by who you're attracted to, not like the equipment or your appearance.

00:05:46.840 It's determined by who you're attracted to, not by anything else.

00:05:48.940 So it's like a lot of people assume that all conservative cultures see thing to thing.

00:05:51.560 And they really don't.

00:05:52.520 Yeah.

00:05:52.660 There's many different conservative cultural traditions.

00:05:56.160 Why does Muslim as a cultural group do this? 1.00

00:05:58.840 We've talked about this before.

00:06:00.120 This is a common thing you see within polygynous societies. 0.96

00:06:02.600 And it helps to deal with the fact that because many women often sort to one men in these societies, you get a lot of unpaired men.

00:06:10.260 Typically, the more unpaired men you have in a society, the more terrorism you have, the more social unrest you have.

00:06:13.980 And so it makes sense for these societies to find ways to match these unpaired men and matching them with each other is a very convenient and intergenerationally durable solution to the problem.

00:06:22.820 There you go.

00:06:24.540 So it's trans maxing before trans maxing. 0.84

00:06:27.760 I'm not saying it's an ethical solution, but this is where things get interesting, is cultural groups are going to have different answers to this question.

00:06:39.680 And most of those answers are going to be determined by what led to intergenerational success of that cultural group.

00:06:48.760 We just gave one evolutionary pressure for why conservative Islamic cultures would have seen a woman as what you're attracted to. 0.87

00:06:56.120 Whereas, you know, if you're talking about monogamous cultural groups, well, typically fertility rate is higher by getting almost everyone to breed.

00:07:03.040 Right. So it really depends on your equipment.

00:07:05.000 You're going to find woman by who can have kids and who can get who pregnant. 0.99

00:07:08.800 Right.

00:07:09.540 How you determine what a woman is within those cultural groups.

00:07:12.160 And I think it's very clear that, you know, these monogamous cultural groups have one answer.

00:07:16.480 These philoginous cultural groups have one answer. 0.92

00:07:18.200 And progressive cultural groups have a different answer.

00:07:20.540 And all of these answers are valid within these cultural groups and should not be treated as invalid.

00:07:27.720 And this is why I have such enormous disdain for individuals like Dylan Mulvaney, who has – this is the person who caused this Bud Light controversy.

00:07:38.560 Right.

00:07:38.900 I think it was an absolutely warranted controversy because this individual has advocated to make it illegal and for legal punishments to be vented on individuals who misgender somebody.

00:07:50.640 And I'm like, I'm sorry.

00:07:52.100 Wait, wait, wait.

00:07:52.680 So to make it a crime to misgender someone.

00:07:55.760 Yes.

00:07:56.080 But what if someone's not passing?

00:07:58.720 Then they don't know if there's not like an introduction of like, these are my pronouns.

00:08:02.580 Simone, these people don't care. 1.00

00:08:04.360 They want to culturally dominate and culturally erase the groups that are different for them. 0.89

00:08:08.400 They do not care that different people are different from them.

00:08:11.040 They do not respect the rights of any cultural group but the progressive urban monoculture.

00:08:15.460 And they – I mean, this is a strategy that they can use to begin to disenfranchise anybody who holds really strongly to their cultural practices.

00:08:25.440 I was really shocked that the mainstream media, when they were covering the Bud Light controversy, they made it sound like Dylan Mulvaney was just like a normal trans person.

00:08:35.960 And that's the reason why people were freaking out.

00:08:39.440 The extent they went to to hide what was really going on was shocking to me.

00:08:43.840 You know, if Bud Light had done a deal with Buck Angel, nobody would have freaked out, you know?

00:08:49.100 The reason why people were freaking out is because Dylan Mulvaney is an extremist activist whose goal is the cultural erasure of groups which she frames as being subhuman in their rights when contrasted with her.

00:09:07.280 And that individuals who hold to their traditions and faced should be sent to jail for even slightly upsetting her or inconveniencing her.

00:09:18.440 This was not a case of a reasonable, normal trans person who was put into an ad campaign. 0.97

00:09:26.360 I mean, it reminds me of the Romans when the Romans were like – you know, and they would do this with Jewish populations. 0.96

00:09:32.060 Like, okay, well, most other people are okay with sacrificing to the Roman emperor as a god.

00:09:37.420 Why aren't you okay with sacrificing to the Roman emperor as a god?

00:09:40.620 You know, they did this with Jews and Christians very frequently.

00:09:42.840 And, of course, Jews and Christians are like, yeah, but from our cultural perspective, that's blasphemy.

00:09:46.660 Why can't you understand that?

00:09:47.520 Why can't you just let us do things our way?

00:09:49.260 And the Romans are like, well, the emperor finds that very distasteful. 1.00

00:09:53.460 It's very offensive to the emperor when you don't sacrifice to him.

00:09:57.540 I don't understand why you can't just bend your way of seeing the world in this one area right here.

00:10:03.260 And it's like, well, if you saw it from their perspective, you would understand why they can't bend on that one perspective.

00:10:07.980 And this is where we have really strong beliefs.

00:10:10.740 Like, I believe very strongly against Islamic cultural groups when they're like, it should be illegal or an individual should be able to be punished for another cultural group for showing depictions of my, you know, Muhammad. 1.00

00:10:23.400 I'm sorry.

00:10:24.360 It makes sense to say that within your culture, it's illegal to show depictions of Muhammad.

00:10:29.240 Yeah, I get that.

00:10:30.740 But when you try to impose that on other people, absolutely not.

00:10:35.080 No, you never in any cultural group get to impose your value system on another cultural group insofar as it does not physically harm you.

00:10:44.660 You can say, well, it offends me.

00:10:45.880 It offends me when they misgender me.

00:10:47.300 It offends me when they have a depiction of Muhammad.

00:10:50.740 Or even, and I'm sorry I say this, it offends me when someone burns an American flag. 1.00

00:10:55.660 Well, tough fucking titties. 1.00

00:10:57.140 You know, America is defined by our diversity and by being a safe haven for different groups that are different. 0.99

00:11:06.860 And we need to have those multiple expressions defended independently.

00:11:12.740 So, yeah, I defend that across the board.

00:11:15.360 And I really see it when somebody feels so culturally empowered that they could begin to present an idea like that.

00:11:22.100 It's like punishing people who are not of their culture simply because they were born into a different culture.

00:11:28.000 It is just the worst.

00:11:30.740 So, one, got unfortunately my take on a very spicy topic out there.

00:11:35.660 But also from like my cultural perspective, from my cultural group, these people went through a lot of effort to transition.

00:11:41.740 Like it's not like they decide this on a whim.

00:11:44.220 Like the least I can do, especially if it hurts them, is, you know, call them by their preferred title.

00:11:49.540 In the same way that when I talk to a Catholic priest, I would call them father, right?

00:11:53.620 And I think that these individuals should call them father. 0.97

00:11:55.960 But I don't think it should be a fucking legal mandate to call them father because not doing so is disrespectful. 0.97

00:12:01.180 Like, come on. 0.97

00:12:02.420 You don't have to call other groups by other titles that they care about within their culture. 0.98

00:12:06.340 But you do it because you're a nice person who, you know, I call someone a doctor because I don't want to be a dick.

00:12:12.440 Like, but I understand if some group was like, yeah, but we believe that all humans are born equal and you shouldn't elevate any person above any other person.

00:12:20.520 And that's why we never use the title doctor.

00:12:22.080 And I'd be like, fine.

00:12:23.320 They shouldn't be like legally enforced to.

00:12:24.980 And people should like deal with the fact that some cultures are just going to relate to that differently and not become.

00:12:32.100 But anyway, so to the point here.

00:12:34.480 You're a cultural relativist when it comes to.

00:12:36.860 But what do I think is the true answer?

00:12:38.940 Because I think that there's no true answer can mean many different things.

00:12:42.400 Wait, there's your answer, the cultural relativistic one.

00:12:45.100 Now you're saying there's a true answer?

00:12:47.180 Yeah.

00:12:47.800 Okay.

00:12:48.120 Yeah, there's many different ways.

00:12:49.300 So all the ways you could determine if someone was a woman, right?

00:12:52.060 You could say, well, XX chromosome, XY chromosome.

00:12:56.200 Oh, they pass.

00:12:57.720 Oh, they self-identify as a woman. 0.59

00:12:59.680 Oh, a woman is whatever would make them happiest if they were called a woman. 1.00

00:13:05.900 Yeah, it's what they want to be called.

00:13:06.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:13:07.280 Yeah.

00:13:07.820 A woman is, whether they can have kids, there's many, many, many, many different ways. 0.99

00:13:11.680 A woman is a state of mind. 1.00

00:13:13.280 That you can determine this, right?

00:13:14.680 And different cultures elevate different interpretations of gender above other interpretations of gender.

00:13:22.740 So what's the right answer?

00:13:24.860 Okay.

00:13:25.120 Now, the true answer, the actual true answer, like if you're just stripping all of the tradition away.

00:13:32.900 Glad you're solving this problem all in one podcast.

00:13:35.400 Is all of these different cultural interpretations, none of them has primacy to any other.

00:13:42.040 Okay.

00:13:42.600 You can give them primacy by giving them utility.

00:13:46.900 So I can say which cultural interpretation of womanhood is the most intergenerationally durable, right?

00:13:53.360 Like which would allow your culture to out-compete other cultures? 0.99

00:13:56.220 Well, there's different optimization functions there.

00:13:57.840 As we've mentioned, there's the Muslim optimization function and the evangelical Christians. 0.71

00:14:00.960 So there's the monogamous optimization function and the politionist optimization function for that, which are different.

00:14:04.920 But the monogamous optimization function for that is definitely that a woman is whoever can have kids. 1.00

00:14:09.880 Okay.

00:14:10.380 Well, but you could say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:14:12.220 But, well, what if I say that what I'm optimizing for is what makes people happiest, right?

00:14:17.740 Well, progressives would say in the moment, and I agree, in the moment it is almost certainly true, that a moment is identifying people who want to be identified as a woman as a woman.

00:14:27.180 However, I don't know if that is longitudinally happiness.

00:14:30.000 Well, but isn't that kind of a zero-sum happiness, though?

00:14:32.320 Because often making, you know, if someone is forced to acknowledge a gender that's really hard for them to acknowledge or that makes them feel like they're-

00:14:42.120 Right.

00:14:42.240 I'm defining happiness here by happiness of the individual who is being identified.

00:14:47.080 Okay.

00:14:47.220 I'm just saying that this is what we're elevating, okay?

00:14:49.320 We're elevating this answer.

00:14:51.100 Okay.

00:14:51.260 Now, I'd say that longitudinally is actually less clear to me.

00:14:55.040 A lot of the research done right now indicates that, yes, trans people are much happier after they transition.

00:15:02.980 However, if they didn't know that transition was a possibility, would that still be true?

00:15:08.200 Like, if they live in a society that was, like, no transition at all, would that still be true?

00:15:13.000 Also, we have to keep in mind that these results are coming through a filter.

00:15:15.920 Like, if you look at older results, this is less true in some of the older studies on this.

00:15:20.640 And I do know that if a researcher published something saying that people were less happy after they transitioned today, they would lose their tenure.

00:15:27.340 Anyone who doesn't think that is living in an ideologically insane bubble.

00:15:31.620 Like, we have seen-

00:15:33.080 I don't see if I can find the study, but recently, yeah, some studies that just were reporting data were, like, the people who published them were either punished or they were heavily censored and they had to be redacted.

00:15:42.320 Like, it's sad that this is a state because it means for people like us who are trying to get at the truth, what actually makes people happier, we don't know.

00:15:48.960 We do know that conservatives are happier on average.

00:15:51.200 We do know that if you're depressed, you're likely going to be better served by becoming a conservative, like a conservative Christian tradition.

00:15:56.940 And this is one of these things where it's like, okay, well, so then people say, well, we get to do whatever makes every kid happiest, right?

00:16:03.900 And it's like, well, if that's true, then if we're giving, you know, the same-sex attracted kids to the LGBT community and the gender dysphoric kids to the LGBT community, are we giving the depressed kids to the Christian community? 0.56

00:16:16.240 Because they seem to do better in that community?

00:16:18.320 Like, just statistically speaking, right?

00:16:20.060 Well, I think many people would be quite unhappy with that trade.

00:16:23.320 And so it's better that, you know, we leave this up to individual free will where that can be exercised.

00:16:29.220 So what's the answer?

00:16:30.840 Well, so the answer is this.

00:16:32.540 It depends on what utility you are multiplying this by.

00:16:36.680 I think that the current evidence is if you're optimizing for in-the-moment happiness, probably the progressives are right.

00:16:43.340 If you're optimizing for intergenerational cultural durability, I think that monogamy-like systems are the closest to right systems.

00:16:52.100 So in this system, likely the evangelical Christians are right. 0.97

00:16:54.580 If you're optimizing for a truest understanding of reality, what you would say is, well, none of them matter.

00:17:01.260 It matters what my cultural group is optimizing for.

00:17:03.500 So our cultural group is optimizing for fertility rates, right?

00:17:05.920 So what we would say is transition would only make sense for an individual if it was so distressing to them that they needed to transition to maximize their fertility rates, which would be true in almost no individual.

00:17:19.000 Well, but I think what you're describing, though, is a world in which, for example, as long as one doesn't compromise one's fertility, so this might preclude one from hormonal transition, but not preclude one from plastic surgery, someone could still transition and then be what looks like a gay or lesbian relationship with someone.

00:17:41.060 This is for what we're optimizing for within our culture.

00:17:43.480 Yeah.

00:17:43.960 Yeah.

00:17:44.160 And also keep in mind that our culture, because of the way we define this, changes in its quote-unquote acceptance of these different groups as general fertility technologies are invented.

00:17:55.800 So perfection of IVG, perfection of artificial wombs would make it that our culture might even encourage gay relationships or transition everyone to, like, one gender, if it turns out one gender is more efficient than another gender in, like, economic situations. 0.99

00:18:13.260 So that's a very interesting way of relating, but that's how our gender, I'm saying this is not the truth, this is just how we have chosen to relate to it because our goal is to give our kids the truest understanding of reality we can while still maintaining intergenerational cultural fidelity and high fertility rates.

00:18:26.680 But the actual true answer is the question is rigged to the beginning, from the beginning.

00:18:32.180 It only matters, you can only come up with quote-unquote correct answers when you know what you're optimizing for.

00:18:37.120 And then, yes, there are specific answers that come up with specific solutions, depending on what you're optimizing for.

00:18:44.700 Well, this has actually been pretty enlightening.

00:18:47.240 Like, I agree.

00:18:47.880 I agree.

00:18:48.260 I think you've figured it out.

00:18:50.300 You solved.

00:18:51.680 Gender.

00:18:52.260 No, we just have to find a sustainable way.

00:18:53.600 I solved gender. 0.85

00:18:54.680 You solved gender. 0.89

00:18:55.280 Gender that will likely piss everyone off. 1.00

00:18:57.920 We can now just, the debate can end, finally.

00:19:01.520 Now we can look at focusing more on becoming an off-planet species and getting us to Mars.

00:19:06.720 Thank you.

00:19:07.820 All right.

00:19:08.400 Good.

00:19:09.620 Or just come up with some new, like, TV and movie series that are actually novel and not just a sequel anymore, please.

00:19:15.300 Well, I'm just checking something.

00:19:16.660 Yeah, I just wanted to double-check that Dylan Milvaney did say that we should be illegal for conservatives to use incorrect gender pronouns.

00:19:24.440 And I think that this is also a really important part, that, you know, we as a society need to know where to draw the lines and where we get into government-mandated cultural genocide, where we get into my culture is ethically superior to other cultures' dominant.

00:19:43.600 Large cultural groups in this country, both Muslims and Christians and Jews, and they are all wrong, and my culture is correct because – and why do they think their culture is correct? 1.00

00:19:52.980 Because they control power in the moment.

00:19:54.280 And so they, like most cultural groups throughout history who have controlled power in the moment, think that they have the right to culturally enforce their norms on other groups.

00:20:03.360 And to me, that is one of the highest forms of evil that any individual can engage with.

00:20:07.980 And absolutely, yes, you should boycott a brand that is platforming any individual who is promoting that.

00:20:16.080 Absolutely.

00:20:16.840 It is one of the – genocide is one of the purest forms of evil, cultural genocide, attempting to erase other cultural groups or lauding your cultural power under other cultural groups.

00:20:27.040 And I'm not going to lie, Christian groups have done this when they've had power in the past.

00:20:31.860 Totally.

00:20:32.200 And when they take power again, if they do take power again in the future, our cultural group will fight them just as ardently as we are fighting the dominant cultural group in our society today.

00:20:43.240 Because our values do not change.

00:20:46.820 We are not living in a moral nexus.

00:20:49.720 You need to act on your own moral core.

00:20:52.080 And this is something that I can say with a lot of confidence that it never turns out well when one cultural group thinks that they are axiomatically better than their neighbors and that they have a right to enforce those value systems on their neighbors using a government's legal system.

00:21:10.000 Agreed.

00:21:10.780 Well, this was fun.

00:21:13.180 Thanks for enlightening me here.

00:21:15.040 I will shift my answer to your answer.

Based Camp - October 03, 2023

What is a Woman？

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