Based Camp - What is Daily Life Like for Polyamorous Women？

00:00:00.000 Hello, Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today. Today, we are going to be talking about

00:00:04.660 the other side of polyamory. Specifically, what I mean by this is somebody who has gone into

00:00:11.740 open relationships, polyamory, you know, they are around our age, and they have been as successful

00:00:18.500 at this as a human can be, and they know everyone else who's really in this lifestyle.

00:00:25.300 Who does it well? Like, as best as you possibly can. The perfect case study.

00:00:29.600 Of course, we're looking at Ayla here, because she wrote a blog post about this recently.

00:00:33.780 And not just that, but it was so fascinating to read, because when I read it, clearly from her

00:00:40.700 perspective, it was a bunch of wins and awesome life moments. And from my perspective, it was,

00:00:47.700 I would never want that. And no, no, no, no, I think this is really useful, because I think for a lot of

00:00:53.440 people, when they start thinking about opening a relationship, or like seriously sleeping around

00:00:59.060 with other people, they think about it in the context of that individual decision, instead of

00:01:05.460 where it will lead them in life, and whether or not that is, yeah, whether or not that's a place they

00:01:11.300 want to be. And what I like so much about Ayla's piece here, is I think that if you are the type of

00:01:18.280 person who wants a polyamory endgame, you will read, like, you'll hear this, and you'll be like,

00:01:23.620 that sounds fantastic. And if you're not, even if you're the type of guy who might be like, well,

00:01:30.260 you know, but I should sleep around on my partner more often, or something like this,

00:01:33.980 this may scare you out of that, if this is the endgame.

00:01:37.840 Yeah, so basically, for some people, this actually really truly is ideal. But many people who think

00:01:43.780 it's for them, it really isn't. And this is a great blog post or a sub stack post to review.

00:01:48.840 If just just to find out to test the waters without necessarily destroying a monogamous

00:01:55.600 relationship that could actually be the better. Well, and I think if you are monogamous, just from

00:02:00.240 an anthropological perspective, you'll find this very fascinating. Like, especially if you're like

00:02:04.760 us, and like with a bunch of kids and your chickens and living on a farm, this is another world that she's

00:02:12.860 living in. That is, yeah, as different as maybe somebody living in the 1800s is from like our

00:02:18.940 daily life. And I also really should bring in some history here as we go more into this, because

00:02:23.560 actually, I also really found it interesting in reading this was your core reaction to it. So

00:02:28.740 Simone reads this, and it's not all the debauchery that gets to her. It's the wasted time. She's like,

00:02:34.380 how do they have time for this? And so I want you to comment on that as we go through this.

00:02:39.040 So the article is titled, Anecdotes from the Slut Cloud, It Works Fine. A lot of people have 1.00

00:02:45.180 opinions like, no man would ever seriously date a whore. Promiscuous people have relationships that 1.00

00:02:51.340 fall apart. This is setting everyone up for so much drama. Slutty people are secretly suppressing 0.99

00:02:57.840 their actual hatred of the lifestyle, etc. While our polyamory is full of nerdy memes about getting 0.84

00:03:04.820 your polycule to play D&D, our monogamy is pretty angry at all the non-monogos. This most upvoted 0.99

00:03:11.980 posts include stuff like, when you see two people in an open relationship, it's like, which one of you

00:03:17.720 came up with the idea, and which one of you cries to sleep every night? And I note here, what I like

00:03:23.500 about her going into this is she's saying that that's not actually true. There are actually people

00:03:28.020 who like this polyamorous lifestyle, even if you would find it a living hell. Like, again, I read

00:03:33.680 through her lifestyle, and I'm like, oh my god, that is a living hell. But we'll get to that in a

00:03:37.320 second. But clearly, she doesn't feel that way about it, and I know other people who don't.

00:03:41.720 And next one here. I'd get bored is something so selfish to say about your partner. People you

00:03:48.320 supposedly love don't exist for your entertainment. Do I agree with that? I mean, I don't get bored with

00:03:54.800 you, and you do exist for my entertainment. So, you know, mostly as a productivity enhancer and

00:04:00.300 entertainment as a second. You know, people keep saying that we were going to get bored

00:04:03.800 of our conversations, you know. Oh, well, then we'd run out of things to talk about with this

00:04:07.800 podcast. Well, that's what I thought when I started dating you and marrying you and spending

00:04:12.980 almost all my time with you and doing all our companies together. It's like, eventually,

00:04:16.500 I must run out of conversations. Yeah, no. Especially not in this timeline.

00:04:22.840 Yeah, apparently not. Yeah, this is too crazy. Next. Was bored and took a small dive into poly

00:04:30.320 relationship YouTube, and 95% of the videos are about training to not hear the little voice in

00:04:36.740 your head telling you that something is insanely wrong. Or responses to one of my poly friend's

00:04:41.760 tweets about polyamory. And so here are some responses. I'm going to invent a disease to eradicate

00:04:46.840 them. They made effing around boring. Total a-humanity. I swear it's the video games, 0.99

00:04:52.880 specifically RPGs, that impart upon nerds this bizarre micro-fascist structuralism to every

00:04:59.620 interaction. They need to be economically and socially disenfranchised. Every GameCube will be

00:05:05.760 smashed. Next. Fluffy in bio. Oh, I guess they're saying he's a furry. Quote-unquote, poly people

00:05:12.340 aren't people. Those are really mean. Yeah. The hate that she screenshotted and shared in her

00:05:21.240 essay is so unfounded. But I think also, it's stuff that I see. She's not just selecting the most

00:05:28.620 extreme, random, very unusual response. No, I see it too. I absolutely see this all the time.

00:05:33.520 And there's reason for it as well, especially from women. Well, and for men. So, okay, I should get 0.98

00:05:41.160 into why people slut-shame. Slut-shaming is a very useful tool in securing partners. When women just 1.00

00:05:48.920 sleep with anyone, especially attractive women just sleep around with anyone, a lot of other women 1.00

00:05:54.700 lose one of the core values they feel they bring to the table that they can use to attract a partner,

00:06:00.320 which is sexual access. And so, you know, if you're in a dating market and some of the most attractive

00:06:07.400 women in the dating market are just giving away sexual access for fairly little, or even like 1.00

00:06:12.720 monetary, which can be even worse for you, because then they've discreetly priced what sexual access

00:06:17.740 to somebody like them is worth. You can really struggle to secure the attention of some of the

00:06:26.020 men who you otherwise would have been able to secure the attention of. And for men, there's also a reason

00:06:30.320 to do this because you do not, you know, yes, you may enjoy like in the moment sexual access,

00:06:36.080 but what you really want, what all men really want at the end of the day, except for this one

00:06:40.620 rare category of men is, you know, a long-term partner to have kids with. And if other women 0.86

00:06:46.820 are normalizing this behavior, especially if they're not sleeping with you, which is fairly common. I mean,

00:06:51.140 a lot of these people who are out there like, you know, poly, whatever, like awful, they're the type 0.92

00:06:56.300 of people who only like fat poly women will sleep with if they're men, or they're the type of people 1.00

00:07:00.660 who just don't gain access to, to the attractive poly women. And so they don't understand, like 1.00

00:07:06.880 there, there is a degree of benefit to gatekeeping this behavior, because if you can enforce monogamy

00:07:13.460 among attractive men, especially then more women sort to you because, you know, right now all the

00:07:19.120 attractive women are just sorting to the top men, even if they don't realize that that's what's 1.00

00:07:22.580 happening. So it's not that they're acting, you know, out of line with like logical or even

00:07:28.320 cultural evolutionary motivation, but there is a lot of cruelty to it. I can see that, but there is

00:07:34.020 an intentionality behind the cruelty. I'd also note here, and perhaps even an intentionality that could

00:07:40.140 lower overall social dysfunction, but I don't know if they can win this market anymore. Like they're

00:07:45.580 never going to dissuade the poly normalized people from being poly with these sorts of tactics. Now what

00:07:51.360 might is something like our EA to sex work pipeline that goes into the effective altruist movement and

00:07:57.120 the poly normalization and how this leads many women to sex work. And I think discussion of long-term 0.67

00:08:01.860 ramifications and how they may or may not align with the long-term goals people have. Absolutely.

00:08:07.680 Yeah. That could be convincing. So to continue, this all feels so bizarre to me. I live in a culture

00:08:14.120 where none of the slutty people are unhappy and failing at relationships thing is true, 1.00

00:08:17.900 or rather no more so than it is for the non slutty cultures. It seems like it's hard for people to 0.99

00:08:24.280 envision how life might work where there's high contingent of happy slutty people. And so what's 0.96

00:08:29.820 really fascinating to me about reading Ayla's posts in regard to this stuff is I feel like I know,

00:08:36.160 like I can personally pull up the various people she mentions anonymously, um, based on the context

00:08:44.380 clues she's giving around them. Yeah. At least a bunch of them, some of them. Right. But what's

00:08:48.900 important about this to me is it means that I have the same view into this culture that she has into

00:08:54.560 this culture. You have, you have some insight into it. No, I have, I have some insight, but I'd make a

00:09:00.400 few notes here. Yeah. First, she is not wrong that there are a lot of people in this culture that have

00:09:07.380 at least seemingly healthy and happy relationships that are otherwise successful and that are, you

00:09:14.120 know, do, do partner sharing and that are very successful, that are sexually fulfilled and in

00:09:18.140 very good supportive. And I would say wholesome relationships that are also poly that also involve

00:09:24.100 a lot of sex, but yeah, but it's just to be very clear, we know some of these people and she is 0.98

00:09:29.900 absolutely right. But, but you enormous caveats I'm about to add to this. All right. Okay. First,

00:09:37.740 every one of these relationships that I know that is stable, the guy is extremely famous and well-liked

00:09:45.360 and well-known. Not always, not always, not always. Who are you thinking of? Are you, are you thinking

00:09:52.360 the Miri guys aren't super famous? They are extremely famous. No, I'm thinking of other ones. I mean,

00:09:57.420 like they're, and it's not, I wouldn't say necessarily famous, but well-known within the

00:10:03.620 community, respected of the community, attractive, wealthy, and professionally successful. Okay. That's

00:10:10.220 the point I'm making. Okay. Is every one of these instances, the guy is among most measures, a 10-10.

00:10:17.480 Yeah. And if they're not super famous, then they are super attractive. Yeah. They're not super famous.

00:10:23.160 They're super attractive. The point here being is this only appears to look like it's working to

00:10:29.780 her. One of my perceptions is because she is around very, very, very successful people. Yeah. And what 0.93

00:10:37.220 she doesn't realize is the poly thing is working for these guys because they're sharing lots of women 1.00

00:10:43.220 more so than women are sleeping around as much. And women are still sleeping around within these circles, 1.00

00:10:49.060 but it is a lesser phenomenon. Well, and I also want to point out that, that this also works

00:10:55.600 because you have extremely educated, extremely self-aware, high caliber people who are wealthy

00:11:02.700 living in an almost post-scarcity society, because there is one place where I am very familiar with

00:11:09.560 the dynamics that she's talking about. Can you imagine it's, it's, I read a book that was about this,

00:11:15.380 this social environment three times because I loved it so much.

00:11:19.120 It was what, the uglies or something?

00:11:22.120 No, it's not sci-fi. It's real history with lots of primary sources.

00:11:26.880 Oh, this is a court, the Louis XIV.

00:11:29.580 Yeah, Louis XIV's court. Antonia Fraser wrote this great book called, I think it's

00:11:33.820 Love and Louis XIV, The Women in the Life of the Sun King that talks about the court.

00:11:37.640 And it is like this. It is people who are attractive, largely attractive, competent,

00:11:44.780 well-educated, wealthy, lots of leisure time, and they are sleeping around like crazy.

00:11:50.380 But I would note here that as somebody who explored Silicon Valley, not entering it as

00:11:55.660 a celebrity like she did, I also saw the group houses, the people being passed around, the women 0.98

00:12:01.420 who were less attractive, the men who were not successful and engaged in this, very few of them

00:12:06.720 had happy relationships.

00:12:08.320 And that was also a problem in the French court in the 1700s.

00:12:12.780 But I'm pointing out here that part of this looking like this is working to her is due 0.79

00:12:17.220 to the filtering of the community she sees. The second is I do not feel she knows a lot

00:12:22.500 of happily married people and has gotten to see them interact. As somebody who has seen

00:12:27.620 both sides of this, I would say that if you had only seen people from within the San Francisco

00:12:32.840 EA poly community, Austin community, you'd be like, their relationships are fine and stable

00:12:39.620 and they're happy. If I contrasted any of these people with the stable married couples we know

00:12:45.980 who have lots of kids, their relationships are nowhere close. And these people could, like

00:12:51.580 they have the emotional intelligence, they have the bond with their partner, they have everything

00:12:55.840 they need to have a relationship as high a quality as are married with lots of kids, couple 1.00

00:13:01.020 friends. They just sort of, I don't know how to put it. It's like their relationships are

00:13:07.240 in sort of an unstable dynamic. They're held together by the partner's attraction to each

00:13:12.560 other, compatibility, the social normativity of what they're doing, and often the status of

00:13:18.480 the man. But this orbit is not stable in the same way that a lot of the married was lots

00:13:26.860 of kids couples we know are. Another really interesting difference between the two groups

00:13:30.540 is, and I suspect that this might be a core thing that causes this, is how extroverted

00:13:35.580 are you? Every one of the married with a lot of kids couples I know who's in a really stable

00:13:40.100 relationship are basically Hakiko boys. Those are people like us who basically live on a farm.

00:13:45.420 We're shut-ins. We get really stressed when we're around people.

00:13:48.800 Where they live in like small group houses with like a few other people and basically

00:13:52.120 never talk to anyone outside.

00:13:53.640 It's really this, because Ayla is also pretty introverted. At least she says she is. She 0.99

00:13:58.300 spends long stretches of time alone.

00:14:00.220 She is, but she goes to big events and interacts with people. And I mean, I think she's got an

00:14:05.040 introverted bone in her. 1.00

00:14:06.480 Maybe it's about tolerance, not just for-

00:14:10.100 Yeah, maybe not introversion, but tolerance at all.

00:14:12.240 I would say tolerance for stimuli, because both you and I really don't like being touched. Like,

00:14:17.060 you know how my parents used to troll you by insisting that you hug them for 10 seconds?

00:14:20.920 Did like literally count? And you would just like die on the inside. And I'd like if-

00:14:25.360 I like hugging our kids though, which is, I didn't expect.

00:14:28.000 Yeah. Yeah, that is odd. And I feel the same way. But like, yeah, no, anyone else, like,

00:14:32.320 especially if they're not you or our kids, I feel deeply uncomfortable. And what's even worse

00:14:37.920 is like, I'm fairly good at masking and I know I'm supposed to not be deeply uncomfortable. So I

00:14:42.180 act like I love it, which means people think that that I think it's okay because they don't see me

00:14:47.180 freaking out, which means that they do it. And then I really just can't be around people because

00:14:51.200 like, there's no way that-

00:14:52.640 Oh yeah, no, I find it really, oh, people like this idea of like cuddle parties or something.

00:14:57.700 I'm like, oh, I would not enjoy that.

00:15:00.860 Torture, torture, torture, torture. But yeah, I mean, for some people, yeah. So I think some people

00:15:05.100 really enjoy that physical contact. And then you and I would rather-

00:15:10.320 But I wanted to start by validating what she's saying here.

00:15:12.980 Yes.

00:15:13.180 She's not lying that from her perception, there are a bunch of people in stable relationships like this.

00:15:17.860 Absolutely.

00:15:18.440 Okay. So to continue. So to help visualize, here's some instances from the lives of myself and people

00:15:23.720 I know. Names are changed and some of the details are slightly altered to preserve anonymity.

00:15:28.520 We know a lot of each other's friends. I've been horny lately, says a girlfriend of mine.

00:15:33.760 Oh, says a girl group chat. I'd recommend trying to bang Mike. He's really into the thing you're 1.00

00:15:39.280 into. But another girl chimes in. Actually, I'm not sure. Mike is definitely into X, but I think

00:15:45.020 you're actually more into Y and it might not work out. Worth trying though, exclamation mark.

00:15:50.340 Like, imagine that. I mean, if your hobby is that, like, if your hobby is sex and different,

00:16:02.680 different, like, arousal pathways or kinks, that's great. I mean, if you just replace this 0.97

00:16:10.880 with, like, knitting terms, like, you know, he's really good at this. Like, I really want to do

00:16:15.900 this kind of stitch. Oh, I think so-and-so knows how to do this kind of stitch. Actually, he's not

00:16:19.620 really good at that, but I think you actually really want to do this kind of stitch. But you

00:16:23.060 can ask him anyway. Like, if you just replace that with knitting or with fly fishing or with

00:16:28.400 anything else. All right. All right. Let's continue here. I'm chatting in a group of girls at a house

00:16:32.780 warming party about whether or not a mutual friend is coming. I realize with amusement that all the

00:16:38.340 girls in the conversation have had sex with him. I'm hanging out with a group of friends and one of 0.79

00:16:43.520 them has to stick a pill into her vagine for medical reasons. Someone asked, quote-unquote,

00:16:49.060 can I watch? So she says, sure, pulls her pants down, spreads her legs, and the whole group of us

00:16:55.500 watch as she shoves the pill in. Two of my friends I describe as frenemies who seem to have had a lot of

00:17:03.020 sex compared to how much they find each other annoying. Okay. I mean, a lot of this, like, if you're

00:17:09.260 really bored in life, this would be very entertaining. Well, no, that's another thing

00:17:12.720 about this is it seems like such a distraction. First, all of this is, like, groups of friends.

00:17:16.940 Like, dude, we don't do that. I don't ever, ever hang out with a group of friends except when I'm,

00:17:22.760 like, with Ayla. Like, Ayla is, like, the one instance when I'm, like, hanging out with Ayla or,

00:17:27.060 like, some of my San Francisco friends. Do I hang out with, like, a group of other people who are

00:17:33.020 friends? And I actually, like, don't get it. Like, the only other time this happens to me, and you can see

00:17:37.560 our episodes of Why Do Jews Have Friends is when I'm hanging out with orthodox Jewish friends I have

00:17:42.200 or conservative Jewish friends I have. They are the only other group I know that regularly ambushes 1.00

00:17:47.480 me with friends. And I'm, like, why? I don't want to meet your friends. What are you doing? I just

00:17:53.160 want to, like, I understand that, like, you don't want to take time. Like, for some of these individuals,

00:17:58.100 it's, like, okay, because they're famous or whatever, and if they're going to take time with me,

00:18:01.060 they're going to take time with a few other people, right? Like, I get that, right? But I would never do

00:18:05.040 that, no matter how famous I think I get what I want to. I mean, I guess we sort of do it with

00:18:08.940 our New York parties and stuff like that, where to cut down on the time we interact with people,

00:18:13.660 we host events where we have just tons of, you know, high-profile people come to these secret

00:18:17.780 parties, and they become, like, known about by newspapers now and the DC parties. But I don't

00:18:23.020 really consider those people friends. Like, I consider them friends individually, but I don't consider it

00:18:26.880 a friend to get together, because what we always focus on at those parties is intellectual

00:18:30.460 conversations. Well, and connecting people with each other, because they don't know each other yet.

00:18:34.240 So it's busy hosting to, like, chill and hang out. Another thing that I thought was really

00:18:40.200 interesting when we were going through these separately is you were, like, I talk to people

00:18:45.240 in group chats, but I never talk to anyone about something without utility. It is always, when I

00:18:49.860 say I am speaking on behalf of Simone, you're, like, it's always about how to make money, how to get a

00:18:53.260 book done, how to get... Yeah, like, tactical. Like, you know, how are you addressing this? Or,

00:18:58.500 you know, can you tell me about this? Or, you know, how can I help you move forward with this

00:19:03.320 thing? It's never just idle socializing.

00:19:09.960 Well, yeah. The only time it is idle socializing for us, and I think this is just, like, us being,

00:19:14.940 like, weirdo autists, is when we send people, like, hey, I see you're getting attacked a lot

00:19:20.480 online right now. Like, I hope you don't let it get to you or whatever.

00:19:23.460 That's not idle socializing. That's us extending support for people that we care about.

00:19:28.200 Yeah, so it's really only either emotional support for people who we see are going through a lot

00:19:32.280 or tactical questions and nothing else. And when I say nothing else, I really mean nothing else.

00:19:41.360 There's, like, a few people who send us memes, but we don't really mean back, you know, which is

00:19:46.980 fascinating to me. It's even with my parents, I almost never talk about anything else. I'm like,

00:19:50.380 here's what I'm working on now. Do you have any tactical? And when they try to go into other stuff,

00:19:53.660 I'm like, ending right now. I don't, I do not care. I don't care how you're feeling.

00:19:58.960 But so they're describing, like, an entirely different type of social interaction than the

00:20:02.660 one we have. But I was also commenting to Simone about this this morning is how lucky we are

00:20:06.280 to have found each other. Because if we had craved this type of social interaction,

00:20:10.640 our relationship really wouldn't have worked as well. And yet, you know, we are from, I guess,

00:20:15.840 you know, as we say, like, we're culturally or maybe genetically different from other people. And we really just,

00:20:20.380 we're focused on trying to make the future a better place. Like, that's it. That's everything

00:20:23.740 that we focus on, right? You know, and I would be so disappointed in you if I saw you wasting time

00:20:29.600 like this. But to continue here, an escort friend of mine married one of her clients. My boyfriend met

00:20:36.280 another girl on a dating app. He was staying at my place for a few months. So he brought her to live with

00:20:41.740 me during the period that they were going to see if they wanted to try a serious relationship.

00:20:47.580 I was just vaguely around the house as they had sex, talked for hours in each other's arms,

00:20:52.620 etc. We both ended up breaking up with the boyfriend. And now our good friends with each

00:20:57.200 other. Oh, okay. So, well, okay, they made friends with each other. But that's also really

00:21:04.460 interesting. I don't want like somebody having like random sex when I'm you mentioned like her 1.00

00:21:08.720 like sitting around reading a book. And you're like, you can't imagine yourself having the time to do

00:21:12.600 that. Like not just reading a book, but then somebody sits down next to you and starts having

00:21:17.100 sex. Yeah, I've never, I don't, I can't remember the last time I've sat on a couch for any reason

00:21:25.000 other than, you know, one of the journalists is visiting our house and I have to, but normally I'm

00:21:28.660 up and cooking or something. Yeah, we really only socialize for journalists these days.

00:21:32.900 That's the only time I'm, or the only time I actually sit in a chair for an extended period of

00:21:36.760 times for this podcast. I can't. Yeah. Like to not, to not work. I can't. And she really means

00:21:43.680 it, by the way. She finds it quite distressing. It's not a, you know, an exaggeration or a ploy

00:21:48.520 or something. Yeah, deeply unpleasant. But I mean, just in general, I mean, you, you also like kind of

00:21:54.020 really struggle to not like, to just hang out. It's not something we do. Oh, no. If I'm like with a

00:22:02.160 group hanging out, it's not that I'm as productive as you, but I'd always rather be like chatting

00:22:06.720 with AI or playing an adventure game or, you know, drinking and watching anime or, you know,

00:22:13.540 anything. So I just don't have these desires, right? Or, or I always have some higher order

00:22:20.740 desire, even though I get some in the moment pleasure. She goes on. I know a poly couple 0.98

00:22:27.960 who's been married for decades with three kids. They haven't really done much outside dating

00:22:32.280 recently because they're too distracted with the kids, but they spent time on their relationship

00:22:36.700 beforehand. And I anticipate they'll likely spend more time after once the kids stop taking up much

00:22:42.520 of their attention. And yeah, this is something I often see with, with poly individuals is once

00:22:48.020 they start having like a reasonable number of kids, just poly stops making as much sense.

00:22:52.020 And I've noted that this isn't because sex isn't good. It's just that kids are generally better.

00:22:57.300 Yeah. That's sort of underrated that. I think a lot of people couldn't imagine anything that would

00:23:01.660 be more enjoyable for them to spend time doing when they could, when they know how enjoyable sex

00:23:06.560 is. And you only hear about negative stuff with, with kids. Plus when you're around other people's

00:23:10.840 kids, it's like nails on a chalkboard. It's just so unpleasant. So you couldn't imagine ever wanting

00:23:16.340 to hang out. But we have the best kids. Well, I think, but I, I mean, I do think a lot of people

00:23:21.080 love their kids and they would never guess that literally spending time with your kids could be as

00:23:26.600 enjoyable or more enjoyable than sex. I think most people are like, and this is where I think

00:23:30.980 that they're wrong with this as the kids get older, I think that they're going to want to spend more

00:23:34.620 time with them because our kids just get cooler as they get older. Yeah. And I certainly, you know,

00:23:40.220 wouldn't want to leave my kids to, you know, cultivate another relationship unless I was just really like

00:23:47.100 the person for other reasons. But, you know, that's rare. Like I, I just don't build that many

00:23:52.080 friendships outside of my relationship. And again, the funny thing about all this is,

00:23:56.520 is in the context of I'm allowed to sleep with people outside the relationship if I want to,

00:23:59.940 it's just a matter of, is it ever worth the time? And when I look at this, I see why I,

00:24:06.100 that isn't something I have interest in aggressively pursuing. I guess it's one of those you can,

00:24:10.360 but should you? Yeah. At a nerd meetup, I noticed a guy used the phrase my wife and my partner in

00:24:16.900 separate conversations. And I figured he must be Polly. I casually referenced him

00:24:21.200 as Polly shortly afterwards, but this freaked him out. He pulled me aside and said, no,

00:24:26.720 please don't talk about this. He hadn't quote unquote come out yet and didn't want word of

00:24:30.840 this getting back to his job or friends. He was afraid of what might happen.

00:24:34.260 I remember, remember we had, we had a Polly friend whose husband was like that where like, 0.71

00:24:41.340 they were super closeted about the fact that they were Polly. But when you look at the bias against

00:24:47.100 Polly couples, that doesn't surprise me at all. Oh, I remember, yeah. In Dallas, remember? 0.90

00:24:51.240 They ended up breaking up, right? They did end up breaking up, but still, and getting divorced. But

00:24:55.860 still, he was extremely nervous about it. And I think part of that is because they were in Texas

00:25:03.000 and he worked for a more conservative company, but. I don't, I don't think that that's the only

00:25:06.560 reason. I think that there is a huge difference of a guy sleeping with a lot of women outside the

00:25:10.920 relationship and a woman sleeping with a lot of guys outside the relationship. 0.95

00:25:13.440 Yeah. Like his male peers would be like, sweetie, you're cucked. Yeah. Especially in Dallas, Texas. 0.99

00:25:22.720 Fair, fair. Okay. Good. No matter how much you're into it, I wouldn't want to deal with it. Like,

00:25:29.180 even if I was into getting cucked, I wouldn't want to deal with the social fallout of something like

00:25:33.560 that. Oh yeah. Like that conservative guy who was just really open and transparent about it and was

00:25:37.280 just completely defenestrated for it. Oh yeah. What was his name? God, I can't, we did another episode

00:25:42.260 on him. I was a beard and he was like a manosphere influencer and he's like, oh, it's so cool to

00:25:47.600 have my wife sleep. And everyone was like, you, my friend. And, and, and as a lot of people.

00:25:52.560 Which really goes to show like

00:25:53.980 doing this gets you in trouble. I mean, you can call it being cucked. You can call it poly, 0.91

00:26:00.520 you can call it whatever. Right. But like society, a lot of people don't get it. And I think a lot of

00:26:04.760 that also just comes from people, a lot of people have a sexual disgust reaction to it.

00:26:10.760 And it's very hard for people to parse out the difference between a sexual disgust reaction and a,

00:26:16.800 this is immoral sign. They just think that they're the same thing.

00:26:20.840 Yeah. Right. To continue. I am hanging out with a group of friends, which includes Bob and Alice

00:26:26.540 who are married. Bob and Alice are getting ready to try to conceive a baby. They've moved into a group

00:26:31.500 house with other soon to be parents for community support. We've discussed birth control methods

00:26:36.500 with Alice and how her sexual behavior is going to change once she enters an active conception

00:26:41.920 attempts phase. I think I know of this house. Yeah. At one point, somebody mentions how big

00:26:49.960 Bob's member is. I've had sex with Bob and I agree that it's big. I say that whenever Bob approaches 0.99

00:26:56.880 at orgies, the other guys tell me, oh, you're in for it now. Most of the other women there, 0.99

00:27:01.480 have also had sex with Bob. Alice says something about how her husband's member is big, but she 0.96

00:27:08.080 didn't realize it was that big. And then we all tease her about having high standards for member 1.00

00:27:13.160 sizes. We discuss the one other person at the orgy who has an even bigger one. What's his name?

00:27:19.260 Someone remembers. We agree that it's probably girthier, but not necessarily longer. What a,

00:27:25.640 the, the conversation, what a pointless conversation.

00:27:28.480 They could be funny conversations though. I mean, that sounds, you know, if you're stuck with a group

00:27:35.460 of people, I know. Yeah. I mean, I'm glad that, although I feel kind of bad for these guys. I

00:27:42.740 would feel very self-conscious if people were like talking about, I don't know, like my, my private

00:27:48.620 parts. It would, I would, I would, I would, I would like uncomfortable while I do not like the concept

00:27:55.020 of being at an orgy, right? Like I do not, I find it actively unarousing because you know,

00:27:59.760 for obvious evolutionary reasons, a lot of guys are going to feel that way because you do not want to see

00:28:03.860 other people sleeping with people you are trying to get pregnant. But the thing that actually sort

00:28:10.080 of horrifies me as I'm like, I might not just be a participant in an orgy, but I might be a

00:28:15.380 participant in the orgy who doesn't have the biggest member. Like that to me would be like an extra,

00:28:21.200 and I didn't even think about that. Oh no. A whole new fear has been. A whole new fear has been

00:28:27.160 unlocked. I don't think you need to worry about that. I, well, you know, you get, you get enough

00:28:33.280 crowds statistically. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I guess a large enough sample, especially if people who

00:28:38.560 are very confident about being naked in group spaces, you're probably going to have probably

00:28:43.720 a disproportionate number of men who are well endowed. Yeah. So yeah, I guess the risk is

00:28:49.100 relatively higher, but I would still not be too worried for you. All right. Well, I appreciate

00:28:55.780 the vote of confidence. Two of my friends are a married couple together for 15 years. Their marriage

00:29:02.000 is great. They have kids no longer small, and they decided to open up their relationship.

00:29:07.220 And now the husband has a girlfriend. The wife has a boyfriend. They all sometimes hang out together.

00:29:12.200 And of course, the respective boyfriend and girlfriend are people a lot of my friends have

00:29:16.420 had sex with. Everybody knows this. Nobody tries to hide it. I personally am either directly or,

00:29:22.720 or a few sex partners removed from both the new girlfriend and boyfriend. A friend of mine

00:29:29.540 is a mega slut, was a body count in the multiple hundreds. She has married a very successful guy, 1.00

00:29:35.380 spent the marriage helping her husband get laid and have threesomes, and now is having a few young

00:29:40.060 kids. I'm hanging out with a group of friends and their friends, and I overhear someone saying,

00:29:46.800 well, you guys might find this weird, but I'm actually monogamous.

00:29:49.760 One in our comments today was pointing out, like, remember when the left revealed this idea of

00:29:55.060 radical monogamy? Yeah, that was so funny. They're like, we're doing this weird new sex thing called

00:30:00.660 radical monogamy, where you only sleep with one person, but it's because you choose to only sleep

00:30:06.280 with one person, not for like weird reasons. This person is really on the edge of debauchery with

00:30:16.680 their new monogamy idea. They're, they're so debaucherous. They keep one partner just for 1.00

00:30:23.100 their sexual. Well, I mean, in this community where it's not normative, you know, and I think

00:30:27.120 it can become fairly insular where people are kind of like, whoa, wait, you're, that's interesting.

00:30:31.680 Well, and I think that people don't realize how much, you know, when you've culturally normalized

00:30:36.260 to something and something culturally outside of that seems gross and weird to you, you're like,

00:30:41.240 oh, how selfish to like think of partners. It's only about like arousal or whatever,

00:30:44.940 or getting bored of them. And then this is what you think of, you've no relation to monogamous

00:30:48.240 culture, but like genuinely having been around this culture and knowing how they think, you know,

00:30:52.960 I go up to one of them and I'm like, well, you know, my wife and I are in a monogamous

00:30:56.100 relationship or something. And they're, they're genuinely like, what a weird, so what your wife

00:31:00.620 is like your sex toy. Like she's not allowed to like do whatever she wants. Like, what are you 1.00

00:31:05.760 even talking about? Like how selfish can you be that you're not letting your wife, the person you

00:31:11.540 claim to love more than anyone else in the world do what makes her happy? You know, like

00:31:16.880 I'm not saying I agree with this framing, but I'm saying you need to understand that this framing

00:31:22.920 is totally normal in these people's heads. Yeah.

00:31:27.520 It's not like a contrivance. It's not like a defense mechanism. This is a normal for them.

00:31:33.860 Now we can get to the question of whether or not it works, but it is normal for them.

00:31:37.180 Also in general, lots of swapping stories and orgies with friends. Carl did the thing to me.

00:31:43.940 Did he do that to you too? Oh my God. I know Dave and I aren't usually as compatible as you and Dave,

00:31:49.300 but last week he did this move. I never expected. My boyfriend is having a girl he's dating over.

00:31:55.120 He's mentioned he's interested in move. What, what moves are people doing? Like how many moves are

00:32:00.240 there? Like I slept around a lot. I did not feel like there were that many moves. There were specific

00:32:07.500 scenarios I could set up and things I could do. But in terms of like moves, moves, like these people

00:32:13.740 must pick up like a whole new repertoire of like ways to be good at arousal and stuff like that.

00:32:21.080 But I wouldn't even want to, like if I knew that I was being judged this way for sex.

00:32:26.800 That's true. Yeah. There's a whole new layer that I got away that from this, that, oh, and they're all

00:32:34.040 openly talking about their intimate experiences with these other people. And I would feel so

00:32:40.940 self-conscious about that. I just want to have sex people. Like I don't want the moves. I don't want, 0.96

00:32:49.000 oh, you didn't even use a move. I'd be like, sorry, I didn't collect my, my Pokemon cards.

00:32:56.800 To play all the right moves. Didn't deploy. Deploy. Ah, activating my trap card. Anyway,

00:33:04.080 my boyfriend is having a girl he's dating over. He mentioned he'd be interested in banging her

00:33:09.620 casually in the open. And I say, sure. They're sitting on the couch with us. And he starts

00:33:13.880 having sex with her in front of me with her consent. With her consent? Oh. 1.00

00:33:18.900 Yeah. Just to make it clear that this isn't messed up. It looks nice. So I asked the girl

00:33:23.660 if she'd like me to take a few photos of them. She says no. But about 10 minutes later, still in

00:33:28.900 the middle of getting railed on the couch. She says, actually, I changed my mind. Some photos

00:33:32.880 would be nice. I'm like, draw okay. And I get a lot of photos of them having kinky sex. 1.00

00:33:38.960 That's really sweet. It's both really sweet. But this was what I was commenting about. I just 0.99

00:33:44.280 couldn't imagine like sitting on a couch long enough for like someone else to sit down and do

00:33:50.520 anything. Like turn on a TV or start railing each other. Like I just, I'm like this, that is what

00:33:56.520 feels weird about this scenario. It is a different world. Not the fact that they were going at it,

00:34:00.060 but like the fact that someone could sit on a couch long enough. You know, actually, now that you

00:34:04.140 mentioned this, that is something that really distinguishes our poly friends from our high

00:34:09.980 agency married couple friends is all of our poly friends have like major problems getting stuff done

00:34:17.200 and they are much slower to complete tasks. And our married friends typically have like five major

00:34:23.340 projects at once. Well, and this is also why like reading this just reminded me so much of the French

00:34:28.980 court of Louis the 14th. Like, wow, this is so familiar. What? Oh, that's it. Which is also so

00:34:37.680 interesting because they're even with all like the online hate that poly people receive, like, oh, I wish 0.99

00:34:43.320 we, you know, could just to make a disease to eradicate them. A big underlying theme of this.

00:34:49.060 They did. It's called AIDS. Sorry, continue.

00:34:52.560 Is the Catholic church. And the Catholic church is basically prude Twitter, like being like, well, 0.55

00:34:57.780 I'm not going to give you the sacrament because you're, you're sleeping out of wedlock with

00:35:03.100 someone. Wait, were they doing this in the Louis church or the Louis, Louis? Yeah. Like in, in the

00:35:08.200 court of Louis the 14th, the, the like cardinals and everything had like very serious problems with

00:35:13.380 Louis the 14th, having these open female lovers, it being, I mean, he had multiple children with

00:35:19.820 several of his female lovers. One of them sort of became the de facto nanny who would like have the 0.99

00:35:25.420 kids come over to her estate and she would raise them like this. It was a whole thing. And like,

00:35:30.680 keep in mind, like it, it wasn't just one of these things where it was a harem for him. There were

00:35:35.440 lots of, there, there was all sorts of like mixing and matching. It felt very poly. Like keep in mind,

00:35:45.340 for example, that one of the lovers of, of Louis the 14th was Henrietta of England. And, and she

00:35:53.020 married King Louis the 14th's brother and likely during the time when she was married to Philippe

00:36:01.200 the first, Duc d'Iolan, the, the, the, the brother of Louis the 14th. Well, also like Philippe the

00:36:06.620 first, this brother had, you know, multiple male lovers. And then like one, one really well-known

00:36:11.600 one, the Chevalier de Lorraine. So like, they're like, there's just, just like all this, the sleeping

00:36:17.000 and the, you know, man on men. Really interesting about this is as a guy, and even as a guy who,

00:36:23.300 you know, when I slept around a lot, you know, had a high sexual appetite, I would not have enjoyed

00:36:27.660 this. The, they're like, oh, you wouldn't enjoy like just a world where there's attractive women 1.00

00:36:32.400 and you can sleep with them whenever you want. I don't know. Not if everyone else can sleep with

00:36:36.960 them. Like I, I, so like the, the scenario, like you're a scenario in which you were banging one

00:36:43.600 woman while another attractive woman is, is sitting on the couch. Like it would just be 1.00

00:36:49.020 ruined by the fact that you knew that those women were sleeping with other men too. Yeah. Well,

00:36:53.820 and the, the sexual access was so easy. Like, oh, too easy. 95% of the fun for me back when I used 0.92

00:37:00.480 to sleep around was the hunt. 5% was the sex. The sex was largely irrelevant. I mean, these people work

00:37:08.260 on it, don't they? They do. And they get the, the, you know, risk with new relationship energy

00:37:14.040 and everything like that. But there's also a huge aspect as we'll see going on here where there isn't

00:37:18.000 a lot of work, you know, they're going to work. Oh yeah. It's like, oh, you should just sleep with

00:37:20.560 so-and-so. Yeah. Like, oh, just this person. Yeah. And I don't know if I could gain any, and, and,

00:37:29.880 and again, if it's as casual as like a referral to a lawyer. Yeah. That's not. This,

00:37:36.440 this isn't necessarily a positive thing for me exactly. It's a bit like in a video game,

00:37:42.100 right? Like I like video games, right? Sometimes when you enable the cheat mode in video games,

00:37:46.720 the video game just becomes immediately unfun because the challenge was the point, right? The,

00:37:51.920 the social challenge, the convincing somebody, the, all of that, the seduction. And when you turn that

00:37:57.340 off, the game isn't fun anymore. Yeah. Well, whereas, I don't know, like my favorite stage of

00:38:04.760 rollercoaster tycoon, like the one video game I ever played, computer game, PC game was like

00:38:10.180 that one park with unlimited resources. I just loved that park. I just played that one over and

00:38:14.400 over. So I think for some people are meant to be poly. Therefore I am poly. No, but for some people

00:38:22.640 this works. And I think that's, that's the nuanced conversation that isn't being had that should be

00:38:26.680 had is that people need to recognize. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm pushed back

00:38:30.320 there, but let's keep going here. Okay. Okay. Okay. At an event, I'm chatting with a girl. When I

00:38:34.860 realized that she's about to go on a date with a guy that I've been considering going on a date

00:38:38.800 with, I asked her to tell me how it goes afterwards. She texts me how the date went and said she was

00:38:44.080 sexually disappointed and anticipated. I'd be disappointed too. I thanked her and did not hook 0.71

00:38:49.600 up with this guy. That is the saddest thing I've ever heard. Like I am so scared as a guy dating in

00:38:56.940 this community. Oh, I disappoint one girl. All of a sudden she calls all the other girls and is

00:39:02.140 like, eh, he wasn't good enough. He wasn't, you know, and I didn't consider these girls like kinky 0.99

00:39:05.820 sex a lot. So they're like, oh, he wasn't rough enough. Oh, he wasn't, you know, didn't do enough

00:39:10.720 of the hardcore stuff. But I mean, like in contrast, women who are dating in monogamous dating markets, 1.00

00:39:16.660 which aren't even monogamous, they just pretend to be don't have trust networks, referrals and

00:39:23.180 reviews of men. What you're missing here. Okay. Like, okay. As a guy who's even into the like

00:39:28.460 harder core stuff, right. Even when I was sleeping around and stuff like that, I'm getting up to that

00:39:34.320 maybe a third of the time because it is so much extra effort. I don't know. And also you, it takes

00:39:40.140 a lot to know. I like it. Either you have to do a lot of talking in advance or have a woman who's 1.00

00:39:46.100 very self-aware or it's extremely risky. Not really. Really? I mean, there's idiots who get

00:39:52.120 involved in it in ways that are risky, but there is no way like from my experience that I'm going to 0.99

00:39:57.540 hook up with a girl and I don't know what she's into to begin with. Oh, okay. I wouldn't, the

00:40:02.020 conversation. So you're just saying it's just sheer laziness on your part. You're like, I don't want

00:40:05.820 to bother. If you underestimate the effort involved. The point I'm making here is if I knew that if I

00:40:15.420 didn't like, basically you lose access. If you're in this market, it's like sex, wherever you want it, 0.87

00:40:21.800 but you lose access to just sex, just like normal, lazy, relaxed. 0.99

00:40:27.120 Oh yeah. No, no lazy sex allowed. Well, I don't know though. Like it seems like a lot of the sex can 0.99

00:40:33.340 be pretty like, sorry. I don't have to worry about being lazy with one person and then them calling up

00:40:40.720 everyone else and being like, Hey, this is, you know, the first time I tried, I just wasn't up

00:40:45.560 to snuff. Not, not, not a filet mignon. I demand a filet mignon perfectly cooked every time. So,

00:40:52.540 so next year, some of my friends have harem chats where the people they're dating all coordinate with

00:40:57.220 each other. I'm running a harem chat with one of my partners and we'll probably be planning an orgy 0.88

00:41:01.840 tailor to his preferences. What did a time sink harem chats? My friends found a guy she super likes. 0.95

00:41:08.860 I said, Hey, it sounds great. I can't wait to meet him. She was like, Oh, you already met him.

00:41:13.880 You had sex with him at your gang bank. They ended up getting engaged. My partner runs a gang, 0.95

00:41:19.420 gang gang gang gang gang squad called the werewolves, a group of vetted STI tested experienced men who when

00:41:26.880 the summoned will all descend upon a lady who would like to experience a gang bang. It's a great network 1.00

00:41:32.220 that sometimes women I know call on if they need members for any particular service.

00:41:37.900 That is interesting, but, but imagine that. I mean, I think a lot of women who have that 1.00

00:41:45.060 particular sexual interest would love access to a resource like that. Oh no. Yeah. I can see some

00:41:50.460 guys amounts of money for access. Obviously I would never want to do that, but I can see some guys want

00:41:55.840 to do that. Right. Oh, to participate in that. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't want to line up to have sex with

00:42:04.260 someone. It's like, I don't want to go to Disneyland anymore. Cause I don't want to line up to go on a 0.63

00:42:08.660 ride. Gang bangs, sex with lines. All right. Continue. Okay. And some direct quotes. I was at 0.99

00:42:19.500 Susan's garden party, sheepishly admitting to just having had sex with someone in the closet. 0.76

00:42:24.920 Susan overheard and said, well, you should F my husband and went over to get him. 0.96

00:42:29.600 Oh, well at least she's trying. I mean, the person probably did, but like, oh, you just had sex with 0.99

00:42:36.160 someone. You should have sex with this other person. Well, that's where the referrals. That's 1.00

00:42:39.820 where I was thinking about your comment about the chase being an important part. Like if, if someone

00:42:45.960 was just like, oh, she, you know, my friend here just had sex with someone in a closet at our garden 0.97

00:42:51.040 party. You should also have sex with her. You'd be like, this wasn't hard. This wasn't. 1.00

00:42:55.740 Once I accidentally took too much G with one partner and then passed out. And then I woke up

00:43:00.000 and I was super horny and I needed to hump something, but he needed to go pee because 0.99

00:43:04.420 he had been watching me breathe for an hour. Doesn't take that long to pee. So he called his 0.99

00:43:09.880 roommate over so I could hump his roommate's leg while I waited for my partner to come back.

00:43:15.020 Then he sent me home with my husband with pics and more G so my husband could enjoy. Honestly,

00:43:21.400 sleeping with people who live together has been super convenient and nice.

00:43:26.900 I just would not want that. I would not. I did. They'd send you back and I'd be like,

00:43:32.320 you can keep her. I'm not interested anymore. Wow. Good to know.

00:43:37.140 I'd really better not. The fact that most of my friends are my ex-partners or ex-metamors.

00:43:42.600 I had to draw a diagram where I explained this all to my newest partner. I didn't seem to use dating

00:43:48.340 apps anymore because meeting people at sex parties has become more efficient. And this is something

00:43:53.040 I actually really get back when I slept around a lot. It actually took me a really long time

00:43:56.220 after I started dating Simone and stopped dating around much to make friends. And I would still

00:44:00.460 hang out on dating apps predominantly to make friends because it was the primary way I knew to

00:44:04.680 I remember that. Yeah. And I just really struggled. How do I do this? But I mean, I experienced the same

00:44:12.040 thing when I was dating. I was just stunned by how like I used it more to find friends and I made

00:44:18.040 some really great friends out of it. And I didn't realize that dating apps would be so good for

00:44:21.400 that. Well, I mean, they, and I, there was even like a stage early in our relationship where we

00:44:26.560 basically pretended to be polyamorous just to meet people. Just to have friends. I know it was so bad.

00:44:31.020 And like San Francisco. But the thing is. Nothing sexy ever happened. Like we just made a lot of

00:44:35.480 friends. Is I have an easier time convincing a woman to go on a date with me than I had convincing a

00:44:42.940 woman to just hang out with me. That is true. I never thought about that before. 0.97

00:44:47.520 I'm like, Hey, do you want to come for this? This brings them to the yard. And I'm like, Hey,

00:44:52.700 do you want to come to just chat? They're like, eh, well, no.

00:44:55.260 Do you think that's what women think that you'll pay if it's a date? 1.00

00:44:59.400 No. Cause they often insisted on splitting and stuff like that. It's, it's, it's, I think it's

00:45:05.620 a contextualization of what they want to spend their time on.

00:45:08.120 Or maybe they, they, they, they feel more desired. Yeah.

00:45:11.600 Maybe it's just a friend thing. It almost, it's an insult because I think maybe some women 1.00

00:45:15.960 instinctually feel instinctually feel like men can't have women friends.

00:45:22.800 I don't think that's it at all. I think it's that they just, they're either going to just

00:45:28.220 talk with somebody or they are going and they know what the guy's interested in, in their

00:45:33.600 mind, which is sex. So they feel like they know what's up. They know what the whole thing

00:45:36.740 is. They're there. And they can get multiple things out of the interaction, not just a

00:45:41.480 conversation, but possibly sex, which to them is important.

00:45:44.980 And our limerence, new relationship energy, that thrill.

00:45:48.920 Me and a partner's boyfriend used to send each other cute photos of her when she's with

00:45:55.600 the other. And we coordinate on how to cheer her up and surprise her with something.

00:45:59.880 That's really sweet.

00:46:01.120 It's sweet, but not something I would ever want. This is the other thing.

00:46:03.800 Like all of them are very aspirational from a perspective of somebody like her and horrifying

00:46:09.060 from the perspective of somebody like me.

00:46:10.920 Why horrifying? Why is that horrifying?

00:46:14.140 The idea of me getting pics of somebody else sleeping with somebody I'm sleeping with as

00:46:19.160 like a fun little thing. I would not find that fun at all.

00:46:22.320 Oh, right. The part of partner sharing would disgust you.

00:46:25.580 I was overly focused on the whole like cheering her up thing. 0.69

00:46:28.640 Once I was sad after not getting banged enough at an orgy, my two boyfriends trying to cheer 0.96

00:46:34.260 me up coordinated to have sex with me at the same time, even though they're not really 0.94

00:46:39.140 in to MMF threesomes, which again, sounds sweet within the context of the community.

00:46:45.100 But here you are thinking like, I would feel obligated to do that.

00:46:48.840 And I would feel very uncomfortable.

00:46:50.060 That's that's your kind of reaction.

00:46:51.640 This is like people hugging me who I'm like not interested in hugging me.

00:46:54.980 I'm like, it's not that I hate hugs.

00:46:56.340 I just want to hug my kids and wife being was one partner in texting pics slash video of

00:47:01.960 us having sex to another partner who is brimming with delight. 0.71

00:47:05.420 I mean, they have the thing here. 0.98

00:47:07.280 Is that hot off the presses?

00:47:09.400 Yes.

00:47:09.960 Especially for you.

00:47:11.120 You're such a good girl. 1.00

00:47:12.740 Don't let me get between you and sucking that. 1.00

00:47:15.300 See, see you tomorrow. 0.99

00:47:17.040 Beautiful.

00:47:17.660 Thank you, sir.

00:47:18.980 I'm so lucky.

00:47:20.520 And then more video.

00:47:22.240 I have a pic open while doing the task.

00:47:25.700 Holy S F. 0.99

00:47:28.780 There's something so special about seeing it right after it's recorded.

00:47:34.200 These people must just have entirely sexual profiles in me.

00:47:37.980 Yeah.

00:47:38.580 No, what I do think it's kind of popular, a popular thing for people to like enjoy this.

00:47:44.400 Like public sex is a big, is a big arousal pathway for many people.

00:47:50.520 But this is watching somebody work and sleeping with somebody else. 0.51

00:47:55.560 Public sex and voyeurism is big.

00:47:58.060 And it may for many people be bigger than the instinct against sharing partners.

00:48:03.060 And then to get a new one thing I think is cute is people sharing tips on how to have sex with other shared partners.

00:48:10.280 Like, I believe there exists a how to have sex with me document that I didn't write because it was co-created by a few people I sleep with.

00:48:18.500 Wait.

00:48:18.780 No, this makes sense.

00:48:20.780 This makes sense.

00:48:22.100 Because.

00:48:22.440 I started seeing someone in June that I really quite like. 0.94

00:48:25.980 And I discovered he hadn't been particularly slutty, but had slutty aspirations.

00:48:30.300 And I immediately started to think, how slash when do I start promoting him to my hot friends? 0.89

00:48:36.460 Oh.

00:48:37.060 That's really.

00:48:37.700 And this happened to me when I was younger as well.

00:48:39.480 Women really will share you among your friends if you're, like, a good at S person and you are into the stuff that women are into that most guys aren't into.

00:48:48.560 Which, again, as I said, is the much more, like, dominance-focused, harder core stuff.

00:48:55.700 On the chat, people were like, oh, what sort of person likes being choked?

00:49:01.480 And I was like, well, one, the statistics show that actually more women prefer that than don't prefer that.

00:49:05.600 But in addition to that, just as somebody who slept around a lot, I have seen that 100% in a woman. 1.00

00:49:11.660 I mentioned one of the cases that I still remember very vividly is a girl.

00:49:17.180 This is in high school. 1.00

00:49:19.280 She comes to me and she goes, look, my boyfriend is being a big pussy. 1.00

00:49:23.420 He was choking me and I passed out. 1.00

00:49:25.200 And now he's all freaked out.

00:49:26.620 And I've heard you're, like, way hardcore and cool. 0.99

00:49:29.500 So will you, like, have real sex with me? 0.98

00:49:32.280 Because I can't find, like, good guys. 0.99

00:49:34.600 And I'm here, like, okay, like, even if that's hot, like, I know about sticking it in crazy, right?

00:49:42.100 Like, and this is clearly a red flag warning right here.

00:49:46.160 You know, he was a little worried about endangering my life.

00:49:49.820 And I know that you're not the type of guy who worries about that.

00:49:52.540 And I'm like, hmm, you know, you're probably right.

00:49:55.800 But that should be a wake-up call for me.

00:49:57.880 But what I mean is this is actually what happens.

00:50:01.020 Like, this is coming from the women, not from the men.

00:50:04.000 But the number of guys I know, and this is actually in the Discord thread as well, where they're like, look, I actively, as a guy, find this a turnoff.

00:50:13.360 I've had to do this with multiple women just to get them to not break up with me. 1.00

00:50:17.740 Choking.

00:50:18.460 Well, I bet you're glad I'm not into that.

00:50:20.760 That would be stressful.

00:50:23.200 You haven't been diss into it.

00:50:25.260 Like, it's one of those, like, oh, you have to do it every time, and then it becomes a risk.

00:50:29.480 I'm into broad dominance, but I don't need choking.

00:50:33.820 Yeah.

00:50:34.000 I think some people are very specifically into, like, that lightheaded feeling you get.

00:50:39.160 No.

00:50:40.560 And this is what people get wrong.

00:50:42.920 People who aren't into this, they'll come into it and say, oh, they're into, like, auto-asphyxiation and the lightheaded feeling and blah, blah, blah.

00:50:52.220 And I'm like, you have not been with many people who are into this.

00:50:57.100 What they are into is knowing their partner could kill them.

00:50:59.920 That's what the point of it is.

00:51:02.360 I don't know.

00:51:03.000 I think that's sometimes it.

00:51:04.520 I think there's a bunch of things going on.

00:51:06.480 It is the vast majority of the time it, Simone.

00:51:09.520 I know you haven't slept with a lot of people who are into this.

00:51:14.020 You don't understand the context of the way that they want this.

00:51:17.940 It is not to be choked up.

00:51:21.320 If it is to be choked out, it is only in so far as knowing that the partner might actually attempt to kill them.

00:51:29.900 That is why they like getting to that stage.

00:51:33.420 It is not the lightheadedness. 0.96

00:51:36.040 They want to feel like they are with somebody who is that level of aggressive, that level of dumbness.

00:51:43.100 Because a lot of people, like a lot of the auto-asphyxiation deaths that take place are people doing this for themselves. 0.69

00:51:49.040 Men from doing alone, not women. 0.99

00:51:52.780 Not women. 1.00

00:51:53.540 I'm going to look that up.

00:51:54.800 Actually look at the statistics.

00:51:56.400 Okay.

00:51:56.660 You can look at the statistics while we're talking here.

00:51:58.120 But auto-asphyxiation deaths are almost exclusively male.

00:52:00.860 And this is a very different phenomenon than women liking to be choked. 0.99

00:52:04.880 Okay. 0.84

00:52:05.160 A couple of years later at an orgy, we decided to – so this one is crazy, I thought.

00:52:13.800 I met my crush Ella at an orgy in France.

00:52:16.500 Years later, I invited her to my wedding dinner.

00:52:18.880 And at the dinner, my girlfriend announced, hey, Ella, did you know Fred had a crush on you? 0.67

00:52:22.900 She was like, no, is this true?

00:52:24.820 I admitted it was.

00:52:25.940 A couple of years later at an orgy, we decided to start writing together.

00:52:29.620 When I wrote the opening of what would become our first co-authored novel in a fountain pen on her back – remember, you didn't realize it was on her back – we've now published five novels together.

00:52:41.640 With a six coming out in two months and two more due next year.

00:52:46.440 I wonder if anyone reads these.

00:52:47.960 Yeah, that's what I'm very curious about.

00:52:49.240 Like, are these successful novels or are they just, like, you know, Google Docs?

00:52:52.580 Okay, so what are you calling with AI?

00:52:53.540 Am I right?

00:52:54.040 You are more right than I ever could have imagined.

00:52:56.800 Male to female ratio of over 50 to 1 has been reported in some analyses, meaning males account for approximately 98 to 99% of cases, while females make up only 1 to 2%.

00:53:09.880 Women do not like being choked for the lightheaded reason. 1.00

00:53:13.900 It is for the same reason they want a vampire to bite their neck in a vampire book.

00:53:17.840 It is for the same reason they want to date a werewolf in a werewolf book.

00:53:21.380 It is because they want to know that the person they are with –

00:53:24.340 They could kill them, but they don't. 0.99

00:53:27.080 No, could and might kill them. 1.00

00:53:29.780 Oh, gosh. 0.99

00:53:30.020 You are talking about Twilight here and not Anne Reif, which is the OG vampire writer.

00:53:36.620 And you're forgetting that in Twilight, while Edward didn't want to potentially kill her, the other hot vampire who was into her did.

00:53:44.900 There was another hot vampire that was into her? 1.00

00:53:46.880 Yeah, he's from one of those. 0.84

00:53:48.420 I thought Edward didn't – like, he was like, no, stay away from me, because he wanted to kill her, and that was the hot thing.

00:53:54.000 Well, and again, this is part of the thing.

00:53:56.420 Yeah.

00:53:56.740 Women like this. 1.00

00:53:58.640 Yummy.

00:53:59.220 We like to pretend that they don't, but, like, you watch the books that they're reading.

00:54:03.780 You look at what they're asking guys to do, even guys who are, like, clearly uncomfortable about this.

00:54:08.520 And that's why, for this girl who reached out to me, you know, when I was younger, and she was like, oh, when I passed out, my boyfriend got worried.

00:54:16.800 That's why that ruined the entire fantasy for her.

00:54:19.560 That's why she never wanted to sleep with her boyfriend again after that. 0.76

00:54:22.560 Oh, because, yeah, she knew that he would never actually.

00:54:27.300 Yes.

00:54:28.100 And then the plausible deniability was what was hot for her.

00:54:32.240 Exactly.

00:54:33.040 Oh, dear me.

00:54:34.400 Okay.

00:54:34.660 All right.

00:54:35.220 Simone, female psychology here. 1.00

00:54:38.520 You are missing the girls who are into this and trying to, even you, who is into, you know, fairly, you know, more extreme things than I think other people, have this fantasy that people aren't as debauched as they are.

00:54:52.560 And they are debauched.

00:54:55.140 Okay.

00:54:55.400 For years, I maintained a signal group called Redacted, where people, I would, and for people who are wondering, oh, why would women be into this?

00:55:01.960 Again, we've pointed out, like, this is very obvious evolutionary reasons.

00:55:05.540 If you look at the amount that towns were rated historically, women, especially women who are already having a lot of sex, and you can look at our thesis of where I think that women who don't have many sexual partners tend more towards tender sexuality or at least not the extremes of BDS sexuality or, like, you know, the more extreme forms of dominance and submission and violence.

00:55:25.500 I think a lot of this is due to polyamory signaling to a woman that she is in an environment where she is being passed around or an S slave, which is what it would have meant in a historic context.

00:55:35.320 And a lot of women were in that scenario in a historic context. 1.00

00:55:37.460 It wasn't, like, a rare thing.

00:55:39.500 Meaning it would be evolutionarily adaptive to be more into that.

00:55:44.280 Yes, in many evolutionary environments throughout human history, the majority of women having kids were essentially slaves. 0.97

00:55:50.760 So the idea that, you know, you wouldn't have some adaptability by knowing not to fight back in aggressive situations.

00:55:59.000 And aggressive situations are when you don't want to fight back the most because that's when they're most likely to kill you.

00:56:04.800 So that is why, in those situations specifically, you would want some sort of counter-signal.

00:56:12.120 Again, I'm not saying this is a good thing.

00:56:13.900 I'm just explaining why humans are built in a weird way.

00:56:15.900 It's a survival thing.

00:56:16.940 Yeah.

00:56:18.400 For years, I maintained a signal group called Redacted, where people I was sleeping with would talk about topics related to dating me and occasionally AI safety.

00:56:26.900 Let's just talk about X and AI safety.

00:56:29.720 And then, I have a shared Google Photos album where my metamor and I share saucy pics of our mutual partner.

00:56:36.320 It's called Butts. 1.00

00:56:40.320 Obviously, everything.

00:56:41.100 I think that's cute.

00:56:44.460 She goes on to say, obviously, everything is not perfect.

00:56:47.780 We're human and sometimes there's conflicts.

00:56:50.000 A friend of mine's metamors, a partner's partner, two girlfriends and boyfriend are metamors with each other,

00:56:54.580 recently got uncomfortable with my friend's relationship and it caused painful issues.

00:56:57.960 I've had partners break up with me because they found someone else and wanted to be monogamous with them and they picked her over me.

00:57:05.680 One couple I know opened their relationship and there was some rocky months where one of them found a partner faster than the other.

00:57:12.360 Jealousy and insecurity are real, but they don't usually manifest in the way you'd think.

00:57:16.860 Almost none of the list of anecdotes about jealousy, as far as I know, usually it pops up in different ways.

00:57:21.780 Like, my partner just recently let me know he'd be spending time with other girls during a time I'd be visiting him on a trip.

00:57:28.020 I haven't gotten to spend much time with him as recently as I wanted and the skins of scarcity spark jealousy in me. 0.98

00:57:33.960 That's a real jerk thing.

00:57:35.320 If she's flying out to see this person, why is he sleeping with other individuals? 0.99

00:57:39.160 Yeah.

00:57:39.460 I expressed this by sending him a lot of Soviet-era propaganda posters that I customized with relevant texts with, like, me and her and the guy is stabbing the other girl.

00:57:50.320 That's such a cute wave of reacting. 1.00

00:57:52.800 Of being like, you're being a jerk. 1.00

00:57:54.460 But he is being a jerk. 1.00

00:57:55.700 This isn't like a polyamory thing. 1.00

00:57:57.660 This person's being a jerk. 0.99

00:57:59.940 She's like, I don't actually hate the other girl stealing him away. 0.99

00:58:02.400 I was trying to convince my partner to not see them, but I learned that suppressing jealousy when I feel it in order to seem cool is a terrible, unsustainable, no-good move.

00:58:11.460 And this is a really important point.

00:58:13.200 One of the reasons why her community works so well is they are extremely emotionally self-aware.

00:58:19.280 They're very transparent.

00:58:21.600 And if you're not able or willing to buy into that, then you shouldn't play the game.

00:58:28.080 Right.

00:58:28.560 But the type of people, like, when I read this list and we go through all of this, and the reason I went through all of this is the type of guy who thinks, you know, I'd really love to be able to regularly sleep with people who are not my partner.

00:58:43.260 I actually think a lot of guys fit that category.

00:58:45.660 The type of girl who may occasionally think that, I don't think a lot of girls do, but I think a good 20% do.

00:58:50.620 The number of guys or girls who, after hearing this list of anecdotes, as what successful polyamory looks like, and who are like, oh, wow, that sounds like a good life, I think that's 1.5%.

00:59:04.960 Yeah, I guess because the unsaid part is that most men would love to sleep with additional women, but women who are only sleeping with them. 0.94

00:59:16.800 Yes.

00:59:17.320 That's a key problem, right?

00:59:18.480 And then the additional ancillary problems are, like, the sharing, the transparency, the social pressure, the risk of being expunged from the community if you're not seen as being a sufficiently generous lover, etc., correct?

00:59:31.940 Yeah.

00:59:34.940 Yeah.

00:59:35.400 Okay.

00:59:36.080 And I find this really interesting.

00:59:37.480 I find the amount of time spent on all this very interesting.

00:59:39.940 As you pointed out, this is a community that is just lower productivity than other communities we know, despite being same intellectual horsepower.

00:59:49.120 It's also, I've noticed, polygroups are way more susceptible to viral memes than non-polygroups.

00:59:56.900 What do you mean, like, AI dumerism?

00:59:59.120 Like, AI dumerism.

00:59:59.960 Well, that makes sense because it becomes this social echo chamber where suddenly if everyone within the community believes it, then, you know, it's very hard to avoid.

01:00:13.260 You know, like, even if you are susceptible to, like, if, like, everyone around you is saying one thing, it gets to you.

01:00:19.200 And if you lived in that community and you were also intimate with people in that community, it would be really hard to not.

01:00:25.560 Well, and you don't have that sanity partner, right?

01:00:27.740 Like, the thing about you or our other friends who are in, like, you know, monogamous marriages is AI dumerism goes around.

01:00:37.940 They go to a party where they hear people worried about it.

01:00:39.780 They think about it. 1.00

01:00:40.340 And they're like, this seems really stupid. 1.00

01:00:42.500 And then they turn to their partner and they go, is this really stupid? 1.00

01:00:45.200 Like, here are my thoughts. 0.99

01:00:46.620 And their partner, without worry about what other people in the community are going to say about them, is able to give an honest judgment.

01:00:53.380 Ayla doesn't have anyone she can go to with that, for example.

01:00:57.140 The other people in these polycules don't have anyone they can go to and be like, is vector a cult? 0.99

01:01:04.060 Is AI dumerism stupid? 1.00

01:01:06.700 Is, you know, shrimp welfare idiotic? 1.00

01:01:10.040 You know, is negative utilitarianism, like, a poorly thought through idea? 1.00

01:01:15.260 They don't. 0.98

01:01:16.200 Because if these things have become status symbols within the community, you know, they put themselves at risk by pointing out how dumb they are. 0.85

01:01:23.640 And I can say, for example, if I was part of this wider polycule network that Ayla is a part of, and I, you know, took a stance of, you know, intellectual integrity and said, AI dumerism is just a poorly thought through position, the other, I would lose sexual access. 0.96

01:01:43.640 I'd lose a lot of sexual access.

01:01:45.020 Even if I tried to do it in private, even if I tried to be like, because people would notice, oh, the people, his metamors seem, you know, not as, as seem immune to the mimetic virus.

01:01:56.600 Well, you know, we need to worry about this.

01:01:58.940 You know, this is a really bad thing.

01:02:01.220 So, yeah.

01:02:04.580 That's a good point.

01:02:06.220 Yeah.

01:02:06.940 Yeah.

01:02:07.380 You have to be more socially agreeable, and that could get you, yeah, a little bit echo-chambered.

01:02:18.700 Didn't think about that part.

01:02:21.060 Yeah.

01:02:21.600 So, there's downsides that I think she's also not seeing.

01:02:25.500 But to me, the biggest downside is just the number of people who think this is going to be appealing to them because, oh, they're the hot person who wants to sleep with me, and they say all I have to do is be polyamorous to enter this.

01:02:35.940 And I'm talking men here.

01:02:38.480 Women get involved for different reasons. 1.00

01:02:40.140 They think, oh, this is what you do.

01:02:41.680 This is normal.

01:02:42.780 Versus the people who want this in-state is very small.

01:02:46.240 Very, very few people want this in-state.

01:02:48.540 Well, so I actually think that there is going to be growing relevance for these types of communities in a post-scarcity age.

01:02:58.780 Like, let's say UBI becomes pervasive, especially to the extent that people are very comfortable, and they just really don't need to work, and they're not working.

01:03:08.880 I can see this becoming super common because you need to fill that void with something, and you can fill it with the drama and the new relationship energy and the negotiating new relationships and the, I'm bored, let me try out a new kink. 0.88

01:03:25.900 Like, I think for a leisured class, whether it's the court of Louis XIV or whether it's post-scarcity AI communities, this could fill a really big void.

01:03:39.400 Will these people inherit the future?

01:03:41.440 No, because I don't think they're going to be creating sustainable families that have descendants and that then therefore inherit the future.

01:03:49.340 So I think it's going to be a very short-lived kind of format, though you see it in Star Trek.

01:03:55.920 I mean, like, there's a lot of sleeping around in Star Trek.

01:03:57.840 Well, I think a lot of kids who grow up, as you did, you know, you sort of grew up in a network where polyamory was normal.

01:04:04.480 Yeah.

01:04:05.020 Among, like, that's how your parents met.

01:04:06.540 They didn't call it polyamory back then, as you always point out, but...

01:04:09.460 No, as my dad always points out.

01:04:10.960 What does he call it?

01:04:11.760 Free love?

01:04:12.420 It was free love.

01:04:13.000 The point being is that you didn't want that for yourself, even when you started...

01:04:18.000 Yeah, but I didn't want any sex for myself.

01:04:20.140 Right.

01:04:20.420 But I have seen very, very few people who have grown up in communities where polyamory was normalized that want polyamory in their own lives.

01:04:31.720 Polyamory is something I see almost exclusively and disproportionately in communities where they felt like extreme monogamy was enforced.

01:04:40.240 So you think it's more reactionary than anything?

01:04:43.660 Up in an extremist Christian environment. 1.00

01:04:46.100 Where she was raised that, like, her job would be a housewife raising kids at home, never having a job. 0.98

01:04:52.300 Yeah.

01:04:52.700 Our descendants of, like, Orthodox Jewish families, they're typically first-generation breakaways. 1.00

01:04:58.720 It is not multi-generation exposure to this stuff.

01:05:01.700 That's true.

01:05:02.020 Do we know any second-generation poly people?

01:05:05.340 One.

01:05:06.660 Who?

01:05:07.360 Well, if you don't...

01:05:08.400 No, we wouldn't call them that.

01:05:10.260 Remember that guy who grew up in a cult and his...

01:05:13.000 No, no, no.

01:05:14.080 Because his father was polygynous.

01:05:16.320 And then kicked all the young boys out of the cult.

01:05:18.280 Yeah, so that's not polyamorous.

01:05:20.260 That is not.

01:05:21.100 Because he was actually sharing women with other men.

01:05:25.840 So, no, that doesn't count.

01:05:27.260 That doesn't count.

01:05:27.520 Yeah, okay.

01:05:28.360 I've never seen it once.

01:05:29.620 And this, to me, says something about the intergenerational durability of this.

01:05:33.600 In fact, he was actually...

01:05:34.520 We'll say he was reactionary to a very rigid sexual dynamic he grew up with.

01:05:39.100 Yeah.

01:05:39.320 No, that's still...

01:05:41.380 Come on.

01:05:41.660 Which is to say that we...

01:05:44.040 I mean, this is fascinating to me that I can't think of one.

01:05:47.340 And it's been around for a while now.

01:05:48.980 You know, it's been around since the 70s.

01:05:50.100 It's been around so much that you grew up...

01:05:51.260 Yeah, since like...

01:05:51.740 Yeah, my parents came out of one.

01:05:54.500 And yet...

01:05:55.260 Nope.

01:05:57.000 Like, I mean, not a fair kid.

01:05:58.080 The first 18 years of a kid's life is a sales pitch to replicate the culture that they grew

01:06:02.640 up is.

01:06:03.180 Yeah.

01:06:03.520 I mean, this is just not a replicable culture.

01:06:05.740 Despite the fact that I never thought anything negatively about it.

01:06:09.100 Yeah, no, no, no.

01:06:09.980 This is how polyamory works.

01:06:13.020 Polyamory only works if you think the idea that you can sleep with multiple people is novel and

01:06:19.420 worth, you know, like it's worth exploring for its novelty.

01:06:22.800 If you are given this idea without stigma attached to it, and you're like, okay, here are two

01:06:29.020 lifestyles.

01:06:29.680 You can sleep around a ton or you can be monogamous.

01:06:33.540 Which lifestyle do you prefer given the ups and downs of both?

01:06:38.660 Most humans choose the monogamous lifestyle.

01:06:41.300 Well, I feel like if I was living in a post-scarcity society where, you know, I had never met someone

01:06:50.700 like you, and I did enjoy physical contact, this would be very entertaining.

01:06:58.380 Not really, because I know you as well as I know myself.

01:07:03.860 Yeah.

01:07:04.680 And while, you know, this might be something where, like, if we have, you know, somebody

01:07:09.040 who we're really close to or whatever, you know, there could be exceptions to something

01:07:13.800 like this, the vast majority of the time, I would always prefer to use AI.

01:07:19.080 Like, the vast, vast majority of the time.

01:07:21.760 Yeah, because then also you're not going to hurt a real person if somehow things go wrong.

01:07:24.300 It's like, as they say in the lower deck Star Trek, where I can't remember, it's whatever.

01:07:28.300 It's like, that's the holodeck.

01:07:29.640 You know, that's only meant for training exercises and weird sex stuff for the commanders.

01:07:34.780 Like, and it's like, that's what the point of the holodeck is, is weird sex stuff.

01:07:39.720 But the point being is that as AI gets better at simulating things, I think polyamory is

01:07:46.280 going to appear more and more weird and, and like a pointless waste of time.

01:07:52.220 No, but I think, I think the people who are getting involved in this community too, I think

01:07:55.680 are uniquely physically responsive, which you and I, again, aren't.

01:07:59.880 Like, people touch us and we're like, how can I get this scenario to end? 0.95

01:08:04.140 I will be able to masturbate those instincts in the future. 0.87

01:08:07.500 Come on, Simone, we're talking about the next generation. 0.98

01:08:09.720 Haptic suits, bring it on.

01:08:11.580 Haptic suits.

01:08:12.260 Yeah.

01:08:12.480 I don't want to wear, I don't want to wear a haptic. 1.00

01:08:14.040 I don't want anything.

01:08:14.620 Like, if I could untouch, unfeel.

01:08:18.080 I'm just saying, if that's what they want, there will be better alternatives than having 0.99

01:08:23.620 to date stinky humans. 0.98

01:08:25.900 I don't know. 0.97

01:08:26.260 I think for a lot of them, it's also the smell, the tree.

01:08:30.140 And I will be able to simulate smells.

01:08:31.880 I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know.

01:08:33.200 Fine, fine, fine, fine, fine.

01:08:34.460 I don't know.

01:08:34.860 Maybe, maybe, I don't know.

01:08:36.500 Yeah.

01:08:36.780 Yeah.

01:08:37.260 Yeah.

01:08:37.540 I don't know.

01:08:38.140 We'll see.

01:08:39.260 In a world where they can get all of this from an automated environment, does, and I

01:08:44.140 think that's a really interesting question for the next generation of polyamory, does

01:08:47.640 polyamory make sense at all?

01:08:50.480 Well, I mean, I feel like a lot of this and what is being discussed in this too, is she's not

01:08:54.460 talking specifically about instances of like this particular time when we had sex.

01:09:00.340 It was so amazing.

01:09:02.160 What she's actually talking about is all the ancillaries.

01:09:05.580 It's the culture.

01:09:06.280 It's the group chat.

01:09:06.980 It's the shared experiences with a partner and getting to gossip about that partner and

01:09:11.380 getting to share new people with that partner and getting to recommend people to that partner.

01:09:15.260 And I think that's almost like when I'm taking away what I'm seeing is the feature of all

01:09:19.280 this, a lot of it's that feeling of meaning and community and connection.

01:09:23.760 And again, that's one of the things that's really lacking for modern society.

01:09:27.160 Like this is, this is like, I guess, yeah, because you and I have such a lack of a desire

01:09:32.280 for that.

01:09:32.720 And I don't mean a lack of a desire.

01:09:33.760 I have an aversion to that stuff.

01:09:34.800 Yeah.

01:09:35.200 It's yeah.

01:09:35.680 The lack of desire is not a sufficient.

01:09:37.520 That's not the right word.

01:09:38.600 I find this stuff really horrifying.

01:09:41.160 I know I'm always horrified by my friends who have like drama and stuff like that.

01:09:44.160 I try so hard to stay out of drama and have we ever our dramas only ever been like logistical,

01:09:50.580 like, you know, so-and-so died.

01:09:52.720 Were they, were they murdered?

01:09:54.600 Yeah.

01:09:55.080 But we also don't really share our drama with others either.

01:09:57.700 Um, and I really struggle with some of our friend network who has more drama and most

01:10:05.260 of them are polyamorous because I just, it's not like I struggle with dealing with it.

01:10:10.580 I struggle with worrying about their sadness.

01:10:13.080 Um, where I'm like, this is unfair to you.

01:10:18.840 I don't like seeing you hurt.

01:10:20.280 Yeah.

01:10:20.680 Yeah.

01:10:20.920 I wish you could just be with a trad partner, you know, but I think it's unfair too, because

01:10:26.700 trad partners have a lot of trauma.

01:10:28.900 Just go to dead bedrooms on Reddit, you know, like a lot of people struggle with their relationships.

01:10:33.240 They're unhappy.

01:10:34.120 They are unfulfilled.

01:10:35.700 Like to just to dunk on the, the downsides for people who are polyamorous is totally

01:10:44.560 unfair.

01:10:45.060 When, I mean, we would argue that most people are in super suboptimal relationships where

01:10:51.120 they like barely talk to each other.

01:10:52.740 They have separate lives.

01:10:53.840 They, I don't think that's true of our generation.

01:10:56.700 I think our generation is actually fairly good.

01:10:58.860 Like of our friend network was everyone I know who's married is in a really healthy relationship.

01:11:02.700 I think that this is a boomer thing.

01:11:04.960 It's a boomer and urban monoculture thing.

01:11:08.460 I guess.

01:11:09.320 Anyway, great chatting with you about this.

01:11:11.320 This episode has gone way too long.

01:11:12.720 Sorry.

01:11:13.160 Gossip, right?

01:11:15.420 But Ayla's amazing. 1.00

01:11:16.780 I think Ayla's lifestyle is perfect for her. 1.00

01:11:19.060 And I think this lifestyle for all the people that she's mentioned that at least I think

01:11:24.420 I know, like it's perfect for them too.

01:11:26.900 They, they do it well.

01:11:27.800 They wear it well.

01:11:28.620 And so like, I think in many instances, they'd be better off going to live on a farm.

01:11:34.440 And I don't know.

01:11:36.200 I don't know.

01:11:37.140 I mean, I would love for some of them because there's such brilliant minds to be more productive.

01:11:41.940 That's my one gripe is that I wish they produced more work and had more of an impact on the

01:11:48.840 world and had a farther reach because they are.

01:11:51.520 A lot of these people have a very far reach, Simone.

01:11:54.740 I guess you'd like some of the AI doomers to have less of a far reach.

01:11:58.080 So you should just be.

01:11:58.760 Yeah.

01:11:59.040 I'm glad that all the AI doomers are stuck in these. 1.00

01:12:01.760 Have more sex, you guys. 1.00

01:12:04.540 We do that. 0.98

01:12:06.620 I think it's part of why AI doomers never get anything done.

01:12:09.640 It's because they're too busy in their poly relationship.

01:12:12.440 Yeah.

01:12:12.660 We, we, we did a application for funding from a EA grant and we were like, we actually

01:12:17.920 need to work on the AI safety stuff because the AI doomers get effing nothing done. 1.00

01:12:22.600 And it's not that there's no threat from AI.

01:12:24.560 It's just that these people are stuck at orgies 24 seven.

01:12:27.500 No, you didn't say that on the application.

01:12:29.960 Well, you know, that's what I secretly believe.

01:12:32.260 You as good as said that, I guess.

01:12:33.720 Yeah.

01:12:35.160 Yeah.

01:12:35.520 Maybe if you actually thought AIs were going to kill us, you wouldn't spend a third of

01:12:38.580 your time dealing with orgy logistics planning. 0.63

01:12:42.080 Anyway, love you to death, Simone.

01:12:45.080 Have a good day.

01:12:46.900 Good day, sir.

01:12:47.900 Do you want to do another one or do you want to go down and do dinner?

01:12:50.660 Gosh, it's 4.03 already.

01:12:51.840 Some people in the comments, Malcolm pointed out that the, the book I'm reading now, All

01:12:58.420 Systems Read by Martha Wells, looks like it has a, like an Apple TV show coming out called

01:13:04.380 Murderbot.

01:13:05.020 So I'm excited.

01:13:09.240 Well, I guess we don't have Apple TV, so nevermind.

01:13:11.560 I'm not excited, but that's fun.

01:13:16.840 So that show that you liked, it's got a, uh, no, the book I'm enjoying looks like there's

01:13:22.200 about where already is a TV series called Murderbot.

01:13:28.060 Very on the money.

01:13:30.300 Who doesn't know?

01:13:31.280 I mean, a lot of people are going to want to see a murder bot.

01:13:34.700 And they're going to see a, what is it?

01:13:36.160 Like a sweet show about a robot that like, I don't know.

01:13:38.580 I don't know if it's going to be adorable, like in the book.

01:13:40.740 I don't know if he's going to be socially awkward and autistic.

01:13:43.540 So I guess we'll see, but I'm excited for it.

01:13:48.720 I am excited to get a chance to talk to you.

01:13:51.020 It's the perfect time of day, the time of day that everybody waits for.

01:13:54.820 I'm, I love, I love our conversation so freaking much.

01:13:58.360 They're just the best.

01:14:00.720 There might, there might be a happy time, even if we don't run them, but now we can just

01:14:04.320 run the stuff that's too spicy on Patreon.

01:14:06.480 So we don't have to worry so much.

01:14:08.700 Well, I mean, the channel has been doing really well.

01:14:11.180 The episode today was seven out of 10, but it was still above the normal normative range

01:14:15.040 of views.

01:14:15.920 That's awesome.

01:14:16.880 So even one that's doing lower in our recent episodes is doing unusually well.

01:14:22.200 I mean, I think it's because we've done a number of good baby episodes in a row, to be

01:14:26.760 honest.

01:14:27.100 I don't know if it's anything other than that, you know, but.

01:14:31.480 Yeah.

01:14:32.580 Oh, hold on.

01:14:33.580 Just sorry.

01:14:34.420 One moment while I get Indy in a position where I think she's more likely to fall asleep 1.00

01:14:38.240 because she, it is her nap time.

01:14:39.640 She just.

01:14:40.140 Go.

01:14:41.140 I'm sorry.

01:14:42.180 I'm sorry.

01:14:44.060 Girl.

01:14:44.640 Okay.

01:14:44.880 All right.

01:14:45.540 Okay.

01:14:46.560 Ha.

01:14:48.180 I think.

01:14:49.780 I've been looking forward to discussing this all day.

01:14:51.520 Like, as soon as I saw the email in my inbox, I was excited about it.

01:14:57.540 So let's go.

01:15:00.060 Okay.

01:15:06.060 Oh, things to talk about, by the way, just so we remember.

01:15:08.300 And with the next episode, I want to talk to you about the categories we're thinking

01:15:11.680 of using for the game system.

01:15:13.660 Oh, okay.

01:15:14.680 It's beautiful on the inside.

01:15:17.540 Oh, it's beautiful on the inside?

01:15:18.680 Okay.

01:15:18.840 So it says, happy Father's Day.

01:15:21.200 And it's beautiful here too?

01:15:23.820 Yeah.

01:15:24.680 It says, dictated.

01:15:27.740 I just want to give you a big hug.

01:15:30.060 I made this drawing for you.

01:15:32.280 Love, Torsten.

01:15:33.740 You want a big hug?

01:15:34.620 Yeah.

01:15:34.940 Aw, what a Father's Day hug.

01:15:40.280 Now, here's Titans.

01:15:41.940 Okay, let's do Titans.

01:15:43.260 Hey, no.

01:15:44.260 Torsten, come on.

01:15:45.300 Hey, there's some more.

01:15:46.720 Come on, there is more.

01:15:47.720 We've got one for India and one for Mommy.

Based Camp - July 01, 2025

What is Daily Life Like for Polyamorous Women？

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