What's the Intergenerational Effect of Cousin Marriages？ (5 Cousin = 1 Sibling Marriage)
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Summary
In this episode, Simone and I discuss the genetic effects of first cousin marriages, and whether or not they are bad or good for society. We also talk about the science behind why first cousin marriage is bad for society, and why we should stop doing it.
Transcript
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Hello, Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today. Today, we are going to be asking
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a question that becomes a little uncomfortable to ask in our society. Everyone is aware
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that first cousin marriages have negative genetic effects. Everyone is aware that certain
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communities have a disproportionate number of first cousin marriages. So for example,
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in the UK, 50% of Pakistani immigrants have first cousin marriages.
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what a lot of people haven't asked that we are going to ask today because i hadn't thought to
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ask this for a while i was like oh i know it affects a little bit how much did it affect
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if you do it multiple generations in a row oh no maybe not i mean so i remember at one point we
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were we were on a hike in the swiss alps and i was like oh cousin marriage so bad could never
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be good for people like we you could never marry a cousin like model you'll become deformed and
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you're like no i mean keep in mind we're walking through this super tiny village in the middle of
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the swiss alps where people have lived for hundreds and hundreds of years like do you think
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they were going off and marrying people who are super genetically distant from them no of course
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they weren't like cousin marriage is something that humanity has dealt with for a very long time
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humanity is resistant to it and so i came away from that conversation thinking this apparently
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then isn't that bad and you make a good point i mean it's not like people could like go very far
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a field to find someone and if you're in a very close-knit group marrying a cousin is a pretty
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safe bet at least they're not your brother or something right second cousin marriage and third
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cousin marriage is not that bad at all okay okay um right right right second and third is yes right
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right first cousin marriage intergenerationally which is the as simone said normal marriage type
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throughout cultural history like if you look at like little tribes because little tribes make up
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the most of truly independent cultures. It's the dominant form of culture of marriage. And it was
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because if you're in a small tribe and you only have maybe a hundred people you could choose to
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marry, the people you're going to be closest to are going to be family. There's family all around
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you. So about the only person you can be sure is not your brother, a.g. assuming people cheat
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regularly, which they do in these little tribes. Yeah. Well, everywhere, not just in little tribes.
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come on that is your mom's brother's kids or your dad's sister's kids because there's something
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called the western mark of effect that makes people generally turned off by family members
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goodness well family members you are raised with there's an opposite effect that makes you more
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turned on by family members you're not raised with which is why sperm and egg donation can be
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a little risky sometimes but anyway can you guess so so first to what you said how bad is this is
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it really that bad right if this has been so common right yeah okay so actually it's the exact
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opposite wait people get smarter wait what cumulative over generation so the factor called
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f that we'll talk about accumulates significantly faster than linearly because of overlapping
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ancestry so that's a good way to explain this if i have kids with my cousins and those kids
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marry kids who they have with their cousins all of those cousins have less genetic diversity
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within them because they themselves are the descendants of cousins which means that within
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In four to six generations of a continuous cousin marriage, right?
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Within a population, which isn't even that long.
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Cousin marriage is, in terms of the genetic output of an offspring, is genetically identical to marrying a sibling.
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If this is difficult for you to imagine, consider it this way.
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Are two people from a cousin marriage family more genetically similar to each other than two people from a family that doesn't have cousin marriages?
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And then you're like, oh, yeah, obviously they're more closely related to each other.
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Well, then the effects of a cousin marriage of those two people who are more related to each other than normal first cousins would be is significantly greater.
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Another way you can think of this is how many total ancestors do they have?
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when you get five generations down in a cousin marriage or something like that you're talking
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about i think about you'd have maybe 75 less total ancestors within your overall genetic subset
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than a person who's not from a cousin marriage family e.g total number of great great great
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grandparents oh yeah okay so yeah it's like one of those things where like you can do it once
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but like don't keep doing it um don't keep doing it now how bad is this it would typically take
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many generations typically 10 to 20 of cousin marriage for the average person so let's just
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talk about iq here to reach an iq that would technically qualify as a disability
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and that's what 60 60 or 70 below 70 so two standard deviations below the population norm
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of 100 okay so think of it this way the average person who is of a family practicing cousin
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marriages if they have done that for 10 to 20 generations the average human result of that
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will be and this isn't me getting into racism or x ethnic group is better than a y ethnic group
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i'm just talking about anybody does this if you and i did this the our average descendant in 10
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generations would be mentally disabled by modern statistical calculations okay well that's that
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you're just talking about mentally i mean there's probably a font of additional health conditions
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and that's when when i've heard mainstream progressive outlets cover this they're typically
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talking about that like all these weird like genetic conditions that come up that that make
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it you know these people are dying in their 20s like it's it's extremely sad and super not cool
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yeah yeah no no no and this is happening throughout royal families in the region that
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we're going to talk about this is happening throughout like it's really really a being
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giant issue right now globally speaking so we're going to get into that because what we will find
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out i guess i'll let the cat out of the bag is in most of these regions that we're going to focus on
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they've been practicing this for over 20 generations
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now keep in mind they occasionally don't hey they always pull it off sometimes you are not
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cousins and sometimes you're not into the cousins so you the problem being is yeah is that the
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types of people one is is that even when they're not marrying a first cousin it's often still a
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relative and two i mean keep in mind if 50 percent are first cousin marriages probably 25 percent or
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second or third cousin marriages and then if you're talking about the final 25 percent those
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are typically the ones that are more westernized in their value set and who have fewer children
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oh it's not like the ones so they're like exiting that gene pool so it doesn't yeah they're exiting
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the gene pool yeah so if you hear something like 50 of pakistani immigrants in the uk are in first
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cousin marriages it's not like the 50 of the ones who are in first cousin marriages when their kids
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get married, there is a 50% chance that they will be in a first cousin marriage. It's more like
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there's an 80 or 90% chance they'll be in a first cousin marriage because that is the tradition of
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their family, right? Like that's their cultural heritage, right? So it's, it's, you're seeing this
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within traditions much more heavily than you might expect. All right. So what are the effects
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if we're talking about something small, like five generations of doing this, it appears it would
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likely be around 10 to 20 IQ points this would bring somebody to like 80 or 90 average IQ this
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is assuming there isn't any other ethnically conflating data here which which for the purposes
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of argument here we're going to presume there isn't within 10 generations you're potentially
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getting 15 to 30 point drop this is where you get to the point where you could be mentally disabled
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if you're talking where the average person would be mentally disabled from these groups and if
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you're talking 15 to 20 generations it would be very likely for the average to fall well below 70
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so here you'd get the to the severely disabled range and this when people give you those scary
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statistics when they're like the average iq in gaza is x you don't even need to like presume a
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racist intentiation from that you you just have to say well what i mean is somebody could say oh
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are you saying that people from that region are ethnically dumber than people from other regions
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and the person could reply no i'm right it's not a race thing it's a marriage strategy problem
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yeah i'm saying they've been practicing first cousin marriages for x many generations
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and this is a widely historically documented phenomenon so yikes let's talk about the f
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coefficient because this is a little confusing measures the probability that two alleles at any
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given locus in an individual are identical by descended from a common ancestor so full siblings
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mating they have an f coefficient of 0.25 or 25 first cousins mating no prior inbreeding have an
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f coefficient of only 0.0625 or 6.25 so keep in mind how distant those are right it's 25 for
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siblings 6.25 for non for first cousins a single first covenant marriage adds less inbreeding than
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a sibling marriage however repeated generations in a close family can cause cumulative effects
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because of relatedness builds over time pedigrees collapse as the ancestors multiply so well this
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isn't just like a thing that happens in the middle east i mean like the hapsburg lip was famous in
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europe this this happened a lot with royal families in europe it happened a lot with some
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royal families right some but still it was a thing was trying to do a joke because the uk was looking
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at banning first cousin marriages which they absolutely should yeah john oliver's joke was
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well look at us a country you know that owes its history to it you know incest right or like and
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the reality is is that the the british royal family has virtually no incest in it or first
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cousin marriages they were just queen elizabeth the second was distant cousins they were typically
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second or third cousins there's like one or two i mean like that still squishes out a lot of
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americans which is out a lot of americans but it doesn't have the genetic effects that we're
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talking about in these populations right yes in case you're wondering queen elizabeth was actually
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a third cousin to her husband which is the genetically optimal distance between two people
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in a marriage in the entire british line we are only aware of two first cousin marriages that is
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queen victoria and prince albert and king george and caroline of bunsrick and second in europe where
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that happened we all decided that was a bad thing right like yeah society we were like oh yeah we'll
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never do something that stupid again or normalize something that's it's not like that made europe
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better the hapsburg jaw didn't make everyone be like oh you're a hapsburg lip lip whatever
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i think it was caused by the jaw but okay no it was this big protruding lip it was very
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distinctive you can tell someone's a hapsburg and a lot of old paintings like up there they
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there they are yeah yeah so to go over to like run the the mass on this with strict unbroken
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first cousin marriages at first you start with 0.625 but if you go for four to six generations
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that surpasses 0.25 so you can actually if you are a seventh generation or eighth generation
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first cousin marriage and you're producing offspring your children are actually more inbred
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which is not uncommon in these groups which is which is wild to think about and it's also wild
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that even for the perspective of caring about muslims that like progressives don't care about
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this do they not care that like muslims are like dying of horrible and easily curable genetic
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diseases this is a bit like muslims are insisting on drinking on like it's basic medical technology
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that we discovered hundreds of years ago at this point that they haven't adopted yet right like
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if if muslims were against washing their hands would you not like go out and be like hey or like
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indians if an indian moved to the uk where we're in some indian traditions they still wipe their
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butts with their hands you wouldn't be like how dare you eradicate this custom right like
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no we should for public health and decency we should probably be doing something about this
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But what's ironic is the group who would say, we should probably be doing something about this, is the left.
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I actually argue I'm all about first cousin marriages.
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You got to learn to be crafty, to engage that sneak stat, if you know what I'm saying.
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and think to yourself the types of muslims culturally speaking who have first cousin
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marriages and who the bills attempting to ban this would actually prevent from having first
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cousin marriages what's the overlap with that group and the group that wants you dead in sharia
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law well probably pretty high right yeah you want to make that group astronomically smarter
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this is where it comes to think like a sneak stat you're saying let them
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i'm saying that okay let's take a different context here let's look within the middle east
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suppose i'm in a small country in the middle east who a lot of the other middle eastern
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countries don't like much all right and i don't like them that much either and they regularly say
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that they want to kill me and they try to kill me regularly they shoot missiles into my country
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randomly all the time all the time every every other week and i happen to have the medical
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technology to be aware that their regular first cousin marriages is significantly negatively
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affecting the accuracy of those missiles the dud rate of those missiles the ability of those
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people to know when i have inserted pagers throughout with bombs on them throughout all
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of their troops i don't want that and i especially don't want that at an intergenerational level i
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don't want my kids to deal with a dramatically smarter group there all i'm saying here and i
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love this conspiratorialness where yesterday people were being like malcolm how dare you even
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entertain the suggestion that a group may want to hobble a group that they see as a threat to them
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or in competition with them and literally today i'm like well i mean i would do that and i think
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we should do that because i do not want my enemies to be competent i mean imagine how f we would be
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if wokes could actually write good content we're not totally creatively bankrupt we would be totally
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or if islamists were not the children of like four or five cousin marriages we would be in such a
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dramatically harder position it's almost as if god helps hobble our enemies and it is up to us
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to just not up what he's doing already so what i say to the wider conservative party before you go
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further here stop burning this stuff they're not gonna leave the country some of them will
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ban halal foods that's fine and we'll do a whole episode talking about whether that's actually
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that unethical i heard they like have to have wolves growling so the cows are scared when they
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die which is tremendously unethical is this true can you can you ask ai if that's true
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that sounds wildly unethical it can't possibly be that that that's no that can't although it'd be
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really funny dog the jobs yes there is at least one documented halal slaughterhouse where workers
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played recordings of wolves howling at sheep but this appears as an instant of abuse that led to
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condemnation and staff being fired not a standard or accepted practice in halal production but yeah
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why they thought they should do that were they doing that just to be mean or because some
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interpretation of scripture led to that undercover footage from a no-stone halal
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a batois about a bati in warwickshire showed workers playing recordings of wolves howling
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over the sound of over the sound system while sheep were being slaughtered
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but ask it why what was the justification was it arbitrary or was it some interpretation of
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of sharia law they weren't there was no religious justification for it
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that sounds really because they were also slamming sheep onto concrete and botching
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kills and mocking distressed animals and yeah they just seem to really really hate sheep
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for some reason really wow hate them that's i mean i'm interested for that episode
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that will be that will be a thing can i have a moment just to get text because he woke up
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okay thank you bear with me here daddy oh daddy he's so happy to see you okay yeah apparently
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yeah it explicitly is against sharia law to do something like that so i double check to see if
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any interpretation i've noticed people really like mess up sharia law the other one that like
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our fans widely understood now you still could say like it says that you're supposed to sharpen
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the knife and make sure that the the suffering is minimal so specifically when you slaughter
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slaughter well sharpen your blade and spare suffering to the animal the prophet muhammad
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so yeah the it would go directly against sharia law and i don't like when like we should be
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on what's actually in sharia law yeah not just making up people who don't follow the rules like
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with that i mean when it really got me with a recent episode was we did the episode where
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you know i mentioned when we should apply sharia law to these individuals who are out there
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graping people right yeah yeah and people were like oh it's legal in sharia law to
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grape a non-muslim which is just nowhere in sharia law that is not a that is not remotely
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and both simone and i checked independently because this is such a common refrain that
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people say yeah you might say functionally that's the way it would work because an islamic court
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would not convict a a a otherwise they would be biased in favor of insiders right where i don't
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actually think that's true keep in mind the quote-unquote insiders you're talking about are
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one making the community look terrible and two breaking islamic law and traditions the kids who
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do the grooming gangs aren't the devout muslims okay they're the iffy muslims right like they're
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the the the ones who don't really care about the law or the rules or who are sort of converting
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out of the religion to some extent or have some like unique interpretation of it that allows them
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to get away with this they're not the ones at the top those ones often great young boys that's a
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totally different scenario but the the these ones getting convictions and keep in mind because it
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would only be additive if you go with our system of say implement sharia law but only for muslim
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populations would only be additive so even if the muslim court didn't convict them they would still
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be convicted by a secular court it just gives you and it would look really bad if regularly muslim
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courts didn't convict but secular courts did yeah because it would basically show that sharia law is
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completely feckless like if that's the answer here and people would just like wait so just like
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anyone can rape somebody and like 98 of them are being convicted in secular court but not muslim
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court that would be really really bad for the muslim community right and the public perception
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likely even among muslims of sharia law yeah so yeah i don't i don't expect that result as strongly
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as people expect it but anyway to continue here how much do certain countries practice this
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in pakistan you have the highest rate globally with 50 to 65 percent consanguineous with first
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cousin marriage it's being 70 so 38 to 50 note here that is a lower amount than the pakistanese
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who immigrate to the uk so the uk is disproportionately drawing radicals out of
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these countries which other people have noted gulf or arabian states around 50 percent
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consanguinous first cousin rates are typically 20 to 50 percent spending on the country or study
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saudi arabia 25 to 58 percent qatar 35 to 54 percent other middle eastern africa 46 to 60
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sudan 50 afghanistan 46 egypt 20 to 40 jordan 28 to 64 basically 20 to ranges across the entire
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region was there an explanation as to why the ranges are so it's just different surveys different
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measurements like national surveys different measurements people don't want to admit it like
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let's be honest here that's that's widely what you're getting here and sorry just to make sure
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i got this right were you saying the pakistani immigrant population in the uk has higher rates
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of consanguinity than in pakistan yes or is it the other way okay so well that's that's surprising
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because you would assume that like detractors of your homeland of your culture you have created a
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condition that leads to tight family networks immigrating in chains and disproportionately
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prefers more extreme family networks in in terms of their religious beliefs that's what you're
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going to get okay so in any country where chain migration is taking place yeah you probably would
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receive more families that are super tight-knit and in this case tight-knit means intermarrying
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yeah by the way speaking of another piece of misinformation that i've heard a lot recently
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is because next even said this on our show that asthma gold supported abortion up until the point
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of birth and he does but why he does makes a lot of sense when it's a non-viable no he he said that
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the vast majority of the time when you have an abortion after i can't remember what period it
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was, it was something like 98% of cases. It's because either the baby or the mother is going
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to die. And he doesn't want to add that extra requirement. Now I would add that extra requirement.
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I think that's a perfectly reasonable thing. I feel like a more efficient way to regulate it
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would be to ban abortions, but to regulate and or permit euthanasia, if that makes sense.
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well did that take so long to approve i mean i think you just need a one of those
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with with with nux and i would even point this out to nux if you're familiar with your maimonides
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what maimonides wrote about when it's okay to kill somebody so like this is still a a killing
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right yeah it is killing a human like there's there's no way around he said that there's this
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i forget the the the name of this in judaism it's a specific type of killing because there's
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different types of killing like a mercy killing no it's a killing that he said it's okay to do
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when you as as he said you're running from a killer basically you're running from somebody
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who otherwise would kill you so it's self-defense yeah yeah so no when when one life is endangering
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another life that is when killing is okay so to get more specific into what maimonides said about
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this in his discussion of rodef which is the pursuer principle in jewish law where if someone
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is actively pursuing another person with an intent to kill a rodef you are permitted to in some cases
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obligated to kill the pursuer first to save the innocent victim if we want to go to direct quotes
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here he said that we are obligated to destroy the fetus quote because the fetus is considered a
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pursuer in effect a murderer end quote in threatening the life of the mother in the laws
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of murder maimonides rules quote if we come upon the potential murderer clutching a knife in pursuit
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of someone in flight we are obligated to do what we can to stop the pursuer even if that means
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killing him in quote however he is very clear as well that we quote one cannot get rid of the fetus
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at will in quote and obviously jews don't have to follow maimonides but i think he's a pretty
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smart dude and has a fairly good understanding of jewish tradition which would actually put
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maimonides on the asmogold side of this and nux on the opposite side of this well assuming you
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you put caveats which i would put caveats on top of what asmogold was saying there but yeah that
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you have to prove that this is truly a non-viable baby and obviously i love nux's content and the
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way he sees things i just want to discourage people on our side right here attacking each
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other or disagreeing with each other especially in ways that don't fully air the other person's
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perspective if it is more nuanced and i i do disagree with asthma gold's take that this should
00:26:42.720
all still be on on the mother i i do think that there should be some conditions here but i can
00:26:47.760
understand why he has it was the idea that the more bureaucracy you add the more risks you're
00:26:53.120
adding for people which is definitely something i've seen in the medical system and there are
00:26:57.660
people who listen to this podcast who have been told to have like later stage abortions
00:27:02.900
with children that they carry to term who ultimately are fine and running around today
00:27:08.320
so it's it's one of those kind of you know yeah you're right i mean they get it wrong sometimes
00:27:14.780
right yeah that's that's where this is just so fraught it's it's very difficult
00:27:19.420
well i guess what i would look at is the percentage of times that they get it wrong
00:27:25.720
is it incredibly rare that they get this you don't know you don't know if you kill a baby
00:27:31.380
and well no but it doesn't matter if you've killed the baby and removed it from the mother's womb
00:27:35.800
no but if they told the mother this and then she didn't kill it oh okay yes and how many of those
00:27:42.060
basis of how many false positives you're getting okay that's yeah yeah you can look at it from
00:27:47.060
that way yeah so there hasn't been a full study on this but what i'm able to piece together
00:27:51.340
is when a doctor says an infant is going to die in utero,
00:27:55.880
it is true that about 60% of the time they don't die in utero,
00:28:00.580
but of that 60% of the time, they die was in the first hour after birth,
00:28:09.560
But this is highly dependent on the specific complication
00:28:11.980
that's leading to the baby's risk, which I would suggest people take to AI,
00:28:16.100
which can probably give them a much better and more realistic example
00:28:19.220
than the doctor that might have all sorts of negative incentives i guess people in the comments
00:28:23.200
can let us in because that that would significantly change my mind on on that yes and and i'm also
00:28:30.240
pointing out here that it would fall squarely within jewish law to do this even even in a fairly
00:28:35.720
conservative context so that's that's the other thing where i'm like come on man don't don't
00:28:41.520
throw asthma gold under the bus for something like that um but anyway what he said was true
00:28:47.780
what he said was true yeah just didn't he didn't lie or mislead he just didn't include the the
00:28:53.740
context that for me would have made me more sympathetic to his perspective
00:28:58.580
and i think it's important to have that context so our side doesn't fight with each other come
00:29:03.780
on guys let's not fight with each other let's not be like the rest of the right so here i i was
00:29:11.600
looking at rates of diseases but i actually think that people don't care about that you have way
00:29:16.940
higher rates of miscarriages in these countries because of this. And it, and it's like a measurable,
00:29:22.200
uh, you have, yeah, a lot of specific diseases to specific countries, you know, neurological
00:29:30.480
diseases, hearing loss, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, it's basically like these
00:29:35.060
populations have nerfed themselves. What you think of that, I think depends on what part of the
00:29:40.520
cultural war you're on. Yeah, absolutely. While it may surprise you, I know we have Muslims in
00:29:45.700
our audience i would tell them i don't care that it's your tradition don't do it like we know better
00:29:50.800
now and it's not even like mandated in the quran so like what are you doing like my people the the
00:29:58.680
the rednecks the greater appellation people are known for marrying their cousins okay i have this
00:30:06.480
in my traditional background as well but we don't do it once we figured out the science
00:30:11.880
once you were like oh that's terrible to do it's it's not widely practiced in the region today
00:30:19.360
despite and i pointed out because i always try to point out whenever if you look up incest porn
00:30:23.480
it is more searched for in that region than in other regions of the united states yeah you didn't
00:30:28.400
tell me what percentage of the population of different states has consanguinity what is it
00:30:35.640
i don't know you didn't look it up for this you just well no it's incredibly low in the united
00:30:41.340
states it basically doesn't happen anymore in the united states the rate in total is 0.2
00:30:47.460
so dramatically lower than the jews even in fact the difference between muslim first cousin marriages
00:30:54.820
and jewish first cousin marriages is about equal to the difference between jewish cousin marriages
00:31:01.100
and american cousin marriages which is it shows just how low the rate is if you look at here i'm
00:31:07.020
talking about jewish in israel because that's where we got that statistic from and here i have
00:31:11.620
a map of where it's even legal in the united states which is in the minority of states because
00:31:17.160
the groups with that tradition well because it's it is illegal i think in a lot of states remember
00:31:22.260
we did we did that whole episode i did that whole episode on cousin marriage and why it's optimal to
00:31:27.100
either like do a mixed race marriage or to do second or i think third cousin i know i'm not
00:31:34.280
against it once we have good genetic engineering but we don't have good genetic engineering well
00:31:38.600
if if if these if these couples did polygenic risk or selection they could probably avoid
1.00
00:31:47.080
most of the negatives yeah yeah i mean at least they could identify severe genetic disorders that
00:31:54.040
could be passed on things that would lead to a miscarriage or stillbirth it would be meaningful
0.76
00:32:00.540
yeah that is uh look look at that little schmiler oh he's uncertain now he knows
0.91
00:32:11.040
he knows you're paying attention to him the pressure's on he's being observed well you'll
00:32:17.580
have a new one soon enough yeah i hope the bigger kids you see in videos are the babies from early
00:32:23.920
videos of base camp yeah we have been doing this show for multiple years at this point which means
00:32:29.020
you've seen multiple babies people became overly attached to this baby i'm like we're gonna swap
00:32:33.840
out this prop any any time now oh my god and then he'll join the group and he'll goof around
00:32:40.960
he'll join the goof patrol yeah i know he really wants to so i know it'll happen
00:32:46.440
he's excited for that yeah i mean i think one of the big
00:32:53.000
points of cultural sovereignty is look let the competition play out and let the best
00:33:10.280
okay anyway he did he do that he just yeah he just chundered on my hand but it happens
00:33:21.200
right so we ideally i see this as as a like we want to learn from the best practices of other
00:33:31.920
cultures but the other one is like well you don't need to suppress another culture or try to stop
00:33:38.000
them they will stop themselves if they are in some way genuinely inferior and if they're not
00:33:43.500
genuinely inferior if they are in fact more competitive than you then don't you want them
00:33:48.560
to win don't we all want the best man to win and the best culture to win no we all want our own
00:33:55.880
culture to win to an extent well we hope that we win but i mean we hold the view that if we're
00:34:01.040
wrong we would like to be corrected if we have a suboptimal practice we would like to adopt a
00:34:06.760
better practice if our family culture is not great then our we hope that our children choose a better
00:34:13.400
one because we want our our future descendants to do really well with like conservative stuff
1.00
00:34:19.140
banning something like halal food will help keep them out of the uk banning this is just helping
0.74
00:34:24.120
your enemies it's very similar to you know when i talk about the porn bans and stuff like that i'm
0.98
00:34:28.620
like if you have a religious prohibition on pornography because you think it genuinely hurts
00:34:33.100
groups productivity and ability to live a good life and the people who are pro pornography
00:34:38.500
are antagonistic to your group in your value system the last thing you should want assuming
00:34:45.040
you genuinely believe all of that is a porn ban because that would only help the people who hate
00:34:50.880
you and once you eradicate it yeah like implies to me you don't really you're either not following
00:34:57.180
the ban that your own religion has for you or you don't really believe this
00:35:02.520
mm-hmm yeah yeah you're stifling back in yet the what have you not been able to plug back in yet
00:35:11.320
plug back in i can't see your face oh my gosh sorry when did that happen you should have told me
00:35:17.380
i didn't know when did you got it you had a time right after i threw up oh that's probably for the
00:35:24.540
best you didn't see the whole cleanup there because it was it was gross well i love you
0.99
00:35:33.600
this is so much worse than i had expected but it really is it also explains more why the jews
0.99
00:35:41.200
have been able to defeat forces that are so much larger than them in the region and so much better
00:35:45.920
tech than them which they were a lot of people are do jews do jewish groups have um explicit
00:35:50.340
bans on cousin marriage i mean i know that you'd like that for example was prevented like in some
00:35:56.920
cases there are there are religious or cultural ban against cousin marriage and various forms of
00:36:03.060
of family nepotism etc and in other cultures it's celebrated and encouraged so jewish religion
00:36:10.140
generally permits cousin marriages first cousin marriages okay holaka does some closer religions
00:36:16.960
they do not permit siblings parent child and nephew in certain cases that's good those are
00:36:22.940
explicitly prohibited in the torah leviticus 18 the torah does not ban first cousin marriage in
00:36:28.120
fact the talmud even recommends marrying a niece sister's daughter in some context a cousin marriage
00:36:35.060
are viewed as acceptable or even positively with harmony ashkenazi jews following stricter
00:36:39.840
interpretations like the Jerusalem Torah Shalasha Ark and the Sephardi Missouri Jews generally allow
00:36:47.520
it though local civil unions may restrict it e.g. in some U.S. states or countries. Rabbis often
00:36:53.660
advise against following the law of the land. There is no blanket ban across Judaism. It has
00:36:59.760
been practiced historically sometimes at higher rates in surrounding populations e.g. 19th century
00:37:05.040
across parts of europe rates in israel it's 2.3 percent of the israeli population is in a
00:37:11.360
consanguineous marriage with 0.8 percent being first cousins specifically breakdown one to two
00:37:16.560
percent among azkenazi jews up seven to nine percent among mishari eastern jewish groups
00:37:22.300
e.g from iran yemen and tunisia rates have declined over decades with modernization so
00:37:28.940
basically very low but among israeli muslims and druz it's at 40 for israeli muslims and 49 for
0.96
00:37:40.200
israeli druz so it's basically very low but it's a cultural thing which you know makes sense jews
00:37:47.640
generally listen to the science you know if you show a jew a first cousin marriage is going to
00:37:51.260
you up it doesn't matter what the talmud says jews are generally speaking i think going to be
0.88
00:37:56.320
like okay well let's not do that yeah that makes sense well this has been interesting if alarming
0.96
00:38:02.880
i hope that the cultures that choose to continue to practice cousin marriage
00:38:10.560
also adopt medical interventions that reduce the harm caused by that though i mean i don't think
00:38:18.540
that iq in isolation is is something i'm obsessed with i think that people over index on iq and
00:38:26.880
while iq does correlate with a lot of things that we think are good if in the end iq is not
00:38:31.840
correlated with fitness which is to say people who have a high iq if they're not having kids
00:38:36.960
if they're not thriving then like is it really that great who am i to say we'll see in several
00:38:43.920
generations but you know i just don't think we are in a great position to make these judgment calls
00:38:52.240
so let the best culture win all right i love you to decimone have a good day and today i am having
00:39:00.960
bulldog quesadillas and you're gonna chop it finely right oh yes a fine a fine chopping
00:39:08.640
with enoki mushrooms was there enoki mushrooms in that i don't think it was in that batch
00:39:22.580
fancy salsa and guacamole if you want it but i guess you're not i am too nervous excited to get
00:39:30.960
my techno puritan weapon and you're gonna need to make it make a choice with me and for quesadillas
00:39:36.980
tonight a gochujang chicken quesadillas i guess that's the first we haven't tried that before
00:39:42.160
it sounds delicious right that should be good in theory when you walk around your room sometimes
00:39:50.840
you can like hear that you're walking through like that star wars trash pit it just sounds like that
00:39:59.320
well now that we have in our religion and an oath that says that we have to be armed tomorrow when
00:40:07.300
they do the i'll try to have this episode go live that day on amazon day prime day good day to get
00:40:13.640
your your puritan weapons i was also thinking of and i want i want you to look through for me what
00:40:18.240
i should get and you should get because i think we should both do this take the oath move forward
00:40:23.340
with this you know where are the people doing it at least the primary one is i've been looking at
00:40:28.140
really cool like tactical gladiuses and some like traditional dirks that look cool and then some
00:40:35.420
you know we want to go with our own ancestral tradition the bowie knife would be cool
00:40:39.180
but the bowie knife could cause more issues the bowie knife is clearly out of all of them
00:40:43.820
the most obviously useful in a modern context but have you have you seen a bowie knife by the way
00:40:49.260
simone yes yeah i hadn't i hadn't no i'd forgotten what they look like but they're basically just a
00:40:55.420
giant knife i know i just don't see how that's more useful i feel like smaller knives are often
00:41:01.920
more useful in terms of like everyday things that come up like no the point is self-protection
00:41:08.260
flathead screwdriver letter opener yeah but the point of the entire commandment by jesus and
00:41:15.540
within the context of techno puritanism is self-protection not your daily but i love
00:41:20.900
self-protection that also is a net gain in terms of convenience so the reason why a bowie knife
00:41:27.120
is so useful right is you've got to consider if you are in a knife fight what do you want
00:41:32.540
and a bowie knife was a knife designed specifically to win knife fights i didn't know that by the way
00:41:39.260
i didn't know that either it famously david bowie beat three armed men including an admiral or a
00:41:45.620
captain in a in a fight to the death david bowie no what david bowie oh sorry not david bowie
00:41:54.740
who's the bowie guy i mean i love the idea of david bowie being like also no one knew this
00:42:04.560
but he's a knife fighting champion extraordinaire james bowie james bowie yeah so the the the the
00:42:13.300
the reason why it's so useful for knife fights in case you're wondering is because it one has a
00:42:18.960
a guard like a a sword does a sheath no a guard like a guard if you think of a dirk or a gladius
00:42:28.180
because a core negative to a dirt oh it has like a hilt thingy is they don't have the hand guard
0.60
00:42:33.480
yeah and the second is that it is it is very heavy in terms of you know there's a japanese
00:42:40.360
blade that i have that's similar to that how deep it goes and how it fights yeah it's meant to be
00:42:46.680
just like a really heavy close range knife to knife fight what is my japanese is that a katana
00:42:52.520
blade hold on i'm checking a bowie knife versus katana no no no it's not no no it's like it's a
00:42:59.400
short but it's a short japanese blade that looks a lot like a bowie knife i just can't remember the
00:43:03.760
name of it oh yeah that's what ai is for short what would you get if you were going to get one
00:43:08.600
bowie knife uh gladius or dirk i'm get a japanese blade you get a japanese blade that's not your
00:43:16.440
cultural heritage i was born in japan yeah we're born in japan so you're gonna walk everywhere
00:43:21.480
with it with a katana no it's called oh a waki zashi is that what i have yeah i have a waki
00:43:29.400
zashi i'll just use that but the thing is also like we need to be
00:43:34.440
thoughtful about the correct knives to carry in the presence of children
00:43:41.660
i mean i'll probably need to use a thigh hilt i don't know like we've got to think through
00:43:48.280
logistics so whatever but we will think through logistics and i do think it's good to have
00:43:55.620
distinguishing features so people would immediately see someone and say are they a technopuritan
00:43:59.900
and this is one of the very easy distinguishing features that we can have that also gives us an
00:44:06.700
excuse to have court battles to normalize this for i don't have time for court battles you doofus
00:44:14.760
oh why would we not be because we it would have to be an a person other than us is the only person
00:44:21.880
who could do it why because we we determined what was true in sort of laying down what techno
00:44:30.940
puritans believe so a person could always just say well you did that for yourself whereas you
00:44:37.540
you know you can't just go and say i believe x and then that's written in your religion and then
00:44:42.280
you end up challenging the courts an external person would have to do that to say well the
00:44:48.380
founders of our religious belief said x and i obviously can't go back on that if i've taken the
00:44:53.460
oath do you see why legally you wouldn't be able to win that argument so we'll just lose by default
00:45:03.460
well we would not somebody following our religion
00:45:11.580
do you understand how good it would be for us and the faith if such a battle happened
00:45:18.120
yeah no i think that would be great and that yeah techno puritans would it would have a right to
00:45:24.600
in beyond just not just that but it would give people a reason to convert outside of even
0.98
00:45:31.220
believing the faith it would provide a protection that would prevent sikhs from being treated
00:45:40.880
preferentially in all other contexts that has biblical and historic backing to it and a logical
0.58
00:45:49.720
reason to have this rule given what our faith believes fair enough so that would be huge in
00:45:58.940
terms of pr but as you said i don't want to deal with it and anybody who does decide to deal with
00:46:04.440
it great win for for equality well maybe it can be in 10 years if the religion actually has
00:46:13.240
funds that it can put toward a legal defense fund and pay for that kind of lawsuit that would make
00:46:18.600
sense where it would be at no personal expense to the person involved well a lot of typically work
00:46:26.000
you'd want to pay for a lawsuit that made weapon access equitable
00:46:37.860
so we wouldn't even need us funding it would be an enormous waste of money when there are so many
00:46:45.100
groups that would have a huge vested interest in seeing it go through yeah i guess i could do that
00:46:50.740
maybe because i think a lot of people are squidged out when religion comes into play and this isn't
00:46:57.920
just some token flying spaghetti monster religion designed to allow people to bear arms in public
00:47:04.260
it is an actual fleshed out religion with pretty detailed you know imperatives about how to live
00:47:13.300
life what what has value etc so i think some groups would be like well i don't want to impose
00:47:18.400
that on like i i want to be a catholic and do this or i want to do although i guess you can be
00:47:22.300
a catholic technopuritan weirdly no you can't you can't you can't why because you
00:47:29.480
catholics are literally the one denomination where you can't oh right right right because
00:47:35.020
they're domineering religion so i guess you could be a jewish or protestant technopuritan
00:47:39.020
but you can't be and you can't you can't be a buddhist technopuritan no the reason you can't
00:47:44.420
be a catholic technopuritan is because catholicism defines its heresies clearly
00:47:49.840
technopuritanism falls outside of multiple of those heresies so if you believe what technopuritans
00:47:56.700
believe about the world and god you definitionally believe something that is heretical within the
00:48:02.520
catholic tradition there there is there is no squaring a technopuritan belief about how god
00:48:08.380
works with anything close and even the spirit of the religion even if you're like yeah but
00:48:13.460
technopuritanism is a very flexible religion it's like that is true you could say that you
00:48:18.220
and still be a techno puritan still say that we are getting everything wrong about god we're getting
00:48:22.760
everything wrong about how the world works but the framing like what really makes a person a
00:48:27.680
techno puritan is the framing they use to uncover what's true and and share what's true it's like
00:48:33.420
the way you're approaching your religion the problem is is that the the same laws around what
00:48:38.960
counts as a heresy would prevent that very framing from coming about so if you look at like what could
00:48:46.660
thought of as proto-techno-puritanism was from a catholic priest who went out and said the the his
00:48:52.120
omega point god right where he's like well god is at the end of time right like and the catholic
00:48:57.440
priest who came up with all these ideas and then he was the catholic church said all of these are
00:49:01.760
heretical no uncertain terms so like i guess that's as close as you could get to being a
00:49:07.600
techno-puritan catholic is you could be a descendant of like a a religious descendant
00:49:13.340
of a branch of catholicism descended from that catholic priest's teaching but understanding that
00:49:19.860
it is directly opposed to the vatican's teachings right now but i guess a lot of catholics don't
00:49:25.840
care about that right like they're just like well i just disagree with the vatican and what what
00:49:29.780
they say but this is deeper than disagreeing with the vatican techno puritanism disagrees with the
00:49:34.920
i see in creed right like it it disagrees with with early church councils
00:49:40.300
which makes it way harder yeah that's fair okay fine not catholics protestants jews
00:49:50.680
many other religions mormons you could because the mormon church allows their transhumanist
00:49:57.780
faction to survive and puritanism would fall easily within that transhumanist faction okay
00:50:03.060
um there's there's a few others like you couldn't be a techno puritan and a jehovah's witness you
00:50:09.380
couldn't be a techno puritan and a i think some most orthodox you couldn't be a techno puritan
00:50:13.940
most orthodox because orthodox not all orthodox but but most orthodox also have heresies and if
00:50:20.400
a group has strict heresies it's hard to be in that group and be a techno puritan because then
00:50:24.680
you basically can't experiment with there's just much more rigidity and therefore okay okay yeah
00:51:02.300
come to mom's belly and we'll get out of her belly and then he will give in our
1.00
00:51:08.800
man who can play with him. Do you like that? Excellent guess. Octavian, do you know where the
0.88
00:51:16.480
other baby is right now? Oh, the other baby is right at the hospital. Yeah, it's stored at the
00:51:22.600
hospital. Do you know how they stored it? They stored it in like auto-tube. Yes! And do you know
00:51:29.340
how they keep it from dying? By keeping it really cold, right? Why? Basically they
00:51:40.080
freeze it and put it in a state of hibernation. The same thing happened to
00:51:46.160
you Octavian. You were frozen in a metal tank for a very long time inside liquid
00:51:52.800
nitrogen. It would be cold. Yeah, it was super cold. But you were there. Yeah. You lived inside
00:51:59.600
of liquid nitrogen, Octavian. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. But then they thawed you out and transferred
00:52:06.020
you into my body, and I carried you for nine months, and then he came out, and here you
00:52:11.740
are. Yeah. Six years later. Yeah, six. Yeah. Octavian, do you want mommy to have another
00:52:17.780
baby? Yes. Are you sure? Yeah. Why? Because the babies are cute.