Based Camp - What's the Intergenerational Effect of Cousin Marriages？ (5 Cousin = 1 Sibling Marriage)

00:00:00.000 Hello, Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today. Today, we are going to be asking

00:00:04.300 a question that becomes a little uncomfortable to ask in our society. Everyone is aware

00:00:10.500 that first cousin marriages have negative genetic effects. Everyone is aware that certain

00:00:17.740 communities have a disproportionate number of first cousin marriages. So for example,

00:00:22.820 in the UK, 50% of Pakistani immigrants have first cousin marriages.

00:00:26.620 what a lot of people haven't asked that we are going to ask today because i hadn't thought to

00:00:33.720 ask this for a while i was like oh i know it affects a little bit how much did it affect

00:00:41.060 if you do it multiple generations in a row oh no maybe not i mean so i remember at one point we

00:00:48.700 were we were on a hike in the swiss alps and i was like oh cousin marriage so bad could never

00:00:55.020 be good for people like we you could never marry a cousin like model you'll become deformed and

00:01:00.440 you're like no i mean keep in mind we're walking through this super tiny village in the middle of

00:01:04.600 the swiss alps where people have lived for hundreds and hundreds of years like do you think

00:01:08.000 they were going off and marrying people who are super genetically distant from them no of course

00:01:11.800 they weren't like cousin marriage is something that humanity has dealt with for a very long time

00:01:15.540 humanity is resistant to it and so i came away from that conversation thinking this apparently

00:01:20.720 then isn't that bad and you make a good point i mean it's not like people could like go very far

00:01:24.580 a field to find someone and if you're in a very close-knit group marrying a cousin is a pretty

00:01:30.280 safe bet at least they're not your brother or something right second cousin marriage and third

00:01:35.320 cousin marriage is not that bad at all okay okay um right right right second and third is yes right

00:01:41.820 right first cousin marriage intergenerationally which is the as simone said normal marriage type

00:01:49.500 throughout cultural history like if you look at like little tribes because little tribes make up

00:01:53.860 the most of truly independent cultures. It's the dominant form of culture of marriage. And it was

00:01:58.940 because if you're in a small tribe and you only have maybe a hundred people you could choose to

00:02:02.580 marry, the people you're going to be closest to are going to be family. There's family all around

00:02:07.160 you. So about the only person you can be sure is not your brother, a.g. assuming people cheat

00:02:13.680 regularly, which they do in these little tribes. Yeah. Well, everywhere, not just in little tribes.

00:02:18.600 come on that is your mom's brother's kids or your dad's sister's kids because there's something

00:02:25.320 called the western mark of effect that makes people generally turned off by family members

00:02:29.400 goodness well family members you are raised with there's an opposite effect that makes you more

00:02:34.700 turned on by family members you're not raised with which is why sperm and egg donation can be

00:02:39.380 a little risky sometimes but anyway can you guess so so first to what you said how bad is this is

00:02:48.320 it really that bad right if this has been so common right yeah okay so actually it's the exact

00:02:55.100 opposite wait people get smarter wait what cumulative over generation so the factor called

00:03:01.140 f that we'll talk about accumulates significantly faster than linearly because of overlapping

00:03:08.560 ancestry so that's a good way to explain this if i have kids with my cousins and those kids

00:03:18.720 marry kids who they have with their cousins all of those cousins have less genetic diversity

00:03:26.100 within them because they themselves are the descendants of cousins which means that within

00:03:32.480 In four to six generations of a continuous cousin marriage, right?

00:03:37.800 Within a population, which isn't even that long.

00:03:40.080 Yeah.

00:03:40.340 Cousin marriage is, in terms of the genetic output of an offspring, is genetically identical to marrying a sibling.

00:03:50.120 Oh.

00:03:50.940 A full sibling.

00:03:52.500 Ah.

00:03:53.700 Ah.

00:03:54.400 If this is difficult for you to imagine, consider it this way.

00:03:57.860 Are two people from a cousin marriage family more genetically similar to each other than two people from a family that doesn't have cousin marriages?

00:04:08.400 And then you're like, oh, yeah, obviously they're more closely related to each other.

00:04:12.040 Well, then the effects of a cousin marriage of those two people who are more related to each other than normal first cousins would be is significantly greater.

00:04:21.780 Another way you can think of this is how many total ancestors do they have?

00:04:26.140 when you get five generations down in a cousin marriage or something like that you're talking

00:04:32.080 about i think about you'd have maybe 75 less total ancestors within your overall genetic subset

00:04:39.660 than a person who's not from a cousin marriage family e.g total number of great great great

00:04:45.220 grandparents oh yeah okay so yeah it's like one of those things where like you can do it once

00:04:49.980 but like don't keep doing it um don't keep doing it now how bad is this it would typically take

00:04:58.580 many generations typically 10 to 20 of cousin marriage for the average person so let's just

00:05:04.100 talk about iq here to reach an iq that would technically qualify as a disability

00:05:09.220 and that's what 60 60 or 70 below 70 so two standard deviations below the population norm

00:05:19.280 of 100 okay so think of it this way the average person who is of a family practicing cousin

00:05:28.600 marriages if they have done that for 10 to 20 generations the average human result of that

00:05:36.200 will be and this isn't me getting into racism or x ethnic group is better than a y ethnic group

00:05:42.960 i'm just talking about anybody does this if you and i did this the our average descendant in 10

00:05:49.060 generations would be mentally disabled by modern statistical calculations okay well that's that

00:05:56.840 you're just talking about mentally i mean there's probably a font of additional health conditions

00:06:03.860 and that's when when i've heard mainstream progressive outlets cover this they're typically

00:06:08.900 talking about that like all these weird like genetic conditions that come up that that make

00:06:12.880 it you know these people are dying in their 20s like it's it's extremely sad and super not cool

00:06:17.700 yeah yeah no no no and this is happening throughout royal families in the region that

00:06:22.620 we're going to talk about this is happening throughout like it's really really a being

00:06:27.920 giant issue right now globally speaking so we're going to get into that because what we will find

00:06:34.060 out i guess i'll let the cat out of the bag is in most of these regions that we're going to focus on

00:06:38.960 they've been practicing this for over 20 generations

00:06:42.620 now keep in mind they occasionally don't hey they always pull it off sometimes you are not

00:06:49.740 cousins and sometimes you're not into the cousins so you the problem being is yeah is that the

00:06:55.620 types of people one is is that even when they're not marrying a first cousin it's often still a

00:07:00.700 relative and two i mean keep in mind if 50 percent are first cousin marriages probably 25 percent or

00:07:06.540 second or third cousin marriages and then if you're talking about the final 25 percent those

00:07:12.040 are typically the ones that are more westernized in their value set and who have fewer children

00:07:17.660 oh it's not like the ones so they're like exiting that gene pool so it doesn't yeah they're exiting 0.97

00:07:24.840 the gene pool yeah so if you hear something like 50 of pakistani immigrants in the uk are in first 0.77

00:07:32.840 cousin marriages it's not like the 50 of the ones who are in first cousin marriages when their kids

00:07:38.600 get married, there is a 50% chance that they will be in a first cousin marriage. It's more like

00:07:43.920 there's an 80 or 90% chance they'll be in a first cousin marriage because that is the tradition of

00:07:48.720 their family, right? Like that's their cultural heritage, right? So it's, it's, you're seeing this

00:07:54.280 within traditions much more heavily than you might expect. All right. So what are the effects

00:08:01.220 if we're talking about something small, like five generations of doing this, it appears it would

00:08:05.640 likely be around 10 to 20 IQ points this would bring somebody to like 80 or 90 average IQ this

00:08:13.320 is assuming there isn't any other ethnically conflating data here which which for the purposes

00:08:17.740 of argument here we're going to presume there isn't within 10 generations you're potentially

00:08:21.600 getting 15 to 30 point drop this is where you get to the point where you could be mentally disabled

00:08:26.880 if you're talking where the average person would be mentally disabled from these groups and if

00:08:31.400 you're talking 15 to 20 generations it would be very likely for the average to fall well below 70

00:08:36.540 so here you'd get the to the severely disabled range and this when people give you those scary

00:08:42.520 statistics when they're like the average iq in gaza is x you don't even need to like presume a

00:08:51.160 racist intentiation from that you you just have to say well what i mean is somebody could say oh 0.74

00:08:58.840 are you saying that people from that region are ethnically dumber than people from other regions 0.96

00:09:04.060 and the person could reply no i'm right it's not a race thing it's a marriage strategy problem 0.96

00:09:12.320 yeah i'm saying they've been practicing first cousin marriages for x many generations

00:09:17.280 and this is a widely historically documented phenomenon so yikes let's talk about the f

00:09:26.180 coefficient because this is a little confusing measures the probability that two alleles at any

00:09:30.620 given locus in an individual are identical by descended from a common ancestor so full siblings

00:09:36.260 mating they have an f coefficient of 0.25 or 25 first cousins mating no prior inbreeding have an

00:09:44.300 f coefficient of only 0.0625 or 6.25 so keep in mind how distant those are right it's 25 for

00:09:54.840 siblings 6.25 for non for first cousins a single first covenant marriage adds less inbreeding than

00:10:03.700 a sibling marriage however repeated generations in a close family can cause cumulative effects

00:10:08.600 because of relatedness builds over time pedigrees collapse as the ancestors multiply so well this

00:10:16.780 isn't just like a thing that happens in the middle east i mean like the hapsburg lip was famous in

00:10:22.700 europe this this happened a lot with royal families in europe it happened a lot with some

00:10:28.400 royal families right some but still it was a thing was trying to do a joke because the uk was looking

00:10:35.240 at banning first cousin marriages which they absolutely should yeah john oliver's joke was 0.95

00:10:39.420 well look at us a country you know that owes its history to it you know incest right or like and 1.00

00:10:45.980 the reality is is that the the british royal family has virtually no incest in it or first

00:10:51.100 cousin marriages they were just queen elizabeth the second was distant cousins they were typically

00:10:57.220 second or third cousins there's like one or two i mean like that still squishes out a lot of

00:11:01.980 americans which is out a lot of americans but it doesn't have the genetic effects that we're

00:11:06.640 talking about in these populations right yes in case you're wondering queen elizabeth was actually

00:11:11.280 a third cousin to her husband which is the genetically optimal distance between two people

00:11:18.300 in a marriage in the entire british line we are only aware of two first cousin marriages that is

00:11:24.340 queen victoria and prince albert and king george and caroline of bunsrick and second in europe where

00:11:31.420 that happened we all decided that was a bad thing right like yeah society we were like oh yeah we'll 0.90

00:11:38.880 never do something that stupid again or normalize something that's it's not like that made europe 0.98

00:11:45.640 better the hapsburg jaw didn't make everyone be like oh you're a hapsburg lip lip whatever 0.99

00:11:52.380 i think it was caused by the jaw but okay no it was this big protruding lip it was very

00:12:00.040 distinctive you can tell someone's a hapsburg and a lot of old paintings like up there they

00:12:05.440 there they are yeah yeah so to go over to like run the the mass on this with strict unbroken

00:12:12.040 first cousin marriages at first you start with 0.625 but if you go for four to six generations

00:12:18.840 that surpasses 0.25 so you can actually if you are a seventh generation or eighth generation

00:12:26.400 first cousin marriage and you're producing offspring your children are actually more inbred

00:12:31.820 than sibling marriages

00:12:33.480 which is not uncommon in these groups which is which is wild to think about and it's also wild

00:12:45.240 that even for the perspective of caring about muslims that like progressives don't care about 0.95

00:12:48.780 this do they not care that like muslims are like dying of horrible and easily curable genetic 0.99

00:12:54.440 diseases this is a bit like muslims are insisting on drinking on like it's basic medical technology 1.00

00:13:00.980 that we discovered hundreds of years ago at this point that they haven't adopted yet right like 1.00

00:13:07.520 if if muslims were against washing their hands would you not like go out and be like hey or like 0.95

00:13:14.800 indians if an indian moved to the uk where we're in some indian traditions they still wipe their 0.98

00:13:19.560 butts with their hands you wouldn't be like how dare you eradicate this custom right like 1.00

00:13:25.040 no we should for public health and decency we should probably be doing something about this 0.60

00:13:30.760 But what's ironic is the group who would say, we should probably be doing something about this, is the left.

00:13:39.580 I actually argue I'm all about first cousin marriages.

00:13:44.140 Let me explain why.

00:13:47.160 You got to learn to be crafty, to engage that sneak stat, if you know what I'm saying. 1.00

00:13:54.140 and think to yourself the types of muslims culturally speaking who have first cousin 0.99

00:14:02.840 marriages and who the bills attempting to ban this would actually prevent from having first 0.96

00:14:09.400 cousin marriages what's the overlap with that group and the group that wants you dead in sharia

00:14:16.420 law well probably pretty high right yeah you want to make that group astronomically smarter

00:14:30.360 and more competent that's your plan

00:14:34.460 again

00:14:37.920 this is where it comes to think like a sneak stat you're saying let them

00:14:48.380 i'm saying that okay let's take a different context here let's look within the middle east

00:14:55.600 suppose i'm in a small country in the middle east who a lot of the other middle eastern

00:15:02.340 countries don't like much all right and i don't like them that much either and they regularly say

00:15:08.480 that they want to kill me and they try to kill me regularly they shoot missiles into my country

00:15:13.480 randomly all the time all the time every every other week and i happen to have the medical

00:15:20.040 technology to be aware that their regular first cousin marriages is significantly negatively

00:15:26.260 affecting the accuracy of those missiles the dud rate of those missiles the ability of those

00:15:32.780 people to know when i have inserted pagers throughout with bombs on them throughout all

00:15:40.300 of their troops i don't want that and i especially don't want that at an intergenerational level i

00:15:45.960 don't want my kids to deal with a dramatically smarter group there all i'm saying here and i

00:15:53.480 love this conspiratorialness where yesterday people were being like malcolm how dare you even

00:15:59.260 entertain the suggestion that a group may want to hobble a group that they see as a threat to them

00:16:06.460 or in competition with them and literally today i'm like well i mean i would do that and i think

00:16:12.820 we should do that because i do not want my enemies to be competent i mean imagine how f we would be

00:16:18.520 if wokes could actually write good content we're not totally creatively bankrupt we would be totally 0.98

00:16:25.960 or if islamists were not the children of like four or five cousin marriages we would be in such a 1.00

00:16:34.420 dramatically harder position it's almost as if god helps hobble our enemies and it is up to us

00:16:41.200 to just not up what he's doing already so what i say to the wider conservative party before you go

00:16:47.840 further here stop burning this stuff they're not gonna leave the country some of them will

00:16:55.200 ban halal foods that's fine and we'll do a whole episode talking about whether that's actually 0.81

00:16:59.840 that unethical i heard they like have to have wolves growling so the cows are scared when they

00:17:05.740 die which is tremendously unethical is this true can you can you ask ai if that's true

00:17:12.840 that sounds wildly unethical it can't possibly be that that that's no that can't although it'd be

00:17:19.400 really funny dog the jobs yes there is at least one documented halal slaughterhouse where workers

00:17:24.840 played recordings of wolves howling at sheep but this appears as an instant of abuse that led to

00:17:31.420 condemnation and staff being fired not a standard or accepted practice in halal production but yeah

00:17:37.980 why they thought they should do that were they doing that just to be mean or because some

00:17:41.960 interpretation of scripture led to that undercover footage from a no-stone halal

00:17:46.060 a batois about a bati in warwickshire showed workers playing recordings of wolves howling

00:17:54.360 over the sound of over the sound system while sheep were being slaughtered

00:17:58.620 but ask it why what was the justification was it arbitrary or was it some interpretation of

00:18:04.920 of sharia law they weren't there was no religious justification for it

00:18:10.280 that sounds really because they were also slamming sheep onto concrete and botching 0.53

00:18:17.720 kills and mocking distressed animals and yeah they just seem to really really hate sheep

00:18:24.640 for some reason really wow hate them that's i mean i'm interested for that episode

00:18:34.920 that will be that will be a thing can i have a moment just to get text because he woke up

00:18:41.720 okay thank you bear with me here daddy oh daddy he's so happy to see you okay yeah apparently

00:18:54.720 yeah it explicitly is against sharia law to do something like that so i double check to see if

00:18:59.720 any interpretation i've noticed people really like mess up sharia law the other one that like

00:19:05.240 our fans widely understood now you still could say like it says that you're supposed to sharpen

00:19:09.480 the knife and make sure that the the suffering is minimal so specifically when you slaughter 0.93

00:19:14.460 slaughter well sharpen your blade and spare suffering to the animal the prophet muhammad 0.90

00:19:19.140 so yeah the it would go directly against sharia law and i don't like when like we should be 0.88

00:19:26.340 on what's actually in sharia law yeah not just making up people who don't follow the rules like

00:19:32.180 with that i mean when it really got me with a recent episode was we did the episode where

00:19:37.000 you know i mentioned when we should apply sharia law to these individuals who are out there

00:19:40.420 graping people right yeah yeah and people were like oh it's legal in sharia law to

00:19:46.020 grape a non-muslim which is just nowhere in sharia law that is not a that is not remotely

00:19:51.680 and both simone and i checked independently because this is such a common refrain that

00:19:56.540 people say yeah you might say functionally that's the way it would work because an islamic court

00:20:00.360 would not convict a a a otherwise they would be biased in favor of insiders right where i don't

00:20:10.480 actually think that's true keep in mind the quote-unquote insiders you're talking about are

00:20:15.100 one making the community look terrible and two breaking islamic law and traditions the kids who 0.83

00:20:22.920 do the grooming gangs aren't the devout muslims okay they're the iffy muslims right like they're 0.98

00:20:29.720 the the the ones who don't really care about the law or the rules or who are sort of converting 1.00

00:20:36.240 out of the religion to some extent or have some like unique interpretation of it that allows them

00:20:40.720 to get away with this they're not the ones at the top those ones often great young boys that's a

00:20:47.180 totally different scenario but the the these ones getting convictions and keep in mind because it 0.94

00:20:53.240 would only be additive if you go with our system of say implement sharia law but only for muslim

00:20:56.600 populations would only be additive so even if the muslim court didn't convict them they would still 0.98

00:21:01.520 be convicted by a secular court it just gives you and it would look really bad if regularly muslim 0.93

00:21:06.680 courts didn't convict but secular courts did yeah because it would basically show that sharia law is 0.97

00:21:11.500 completely feckless like if that's the answer here and people would just like wait so just like 0.93

00:21:15.800 anyone can rape somebody and like 98 of them are being convicted in secular court but not muslim

00:21:20.420 court that would be really really bad for the muslim community right and the public perception

00:21:26.800 likely even among muslims of sharia law yeah so yeah i don't i don't expect that result as strongly

00:21:32.720 as people expect it but anyway to continue here how much do certain countries practice this

00:21:40.280 in pakistan you have the highest rate globally with 50 to 65 percent consanguineous with first

00:21:47.340 cousin marriage it's being 70 so 38 to 50 note here that is a lower amount than the pakistanese

00:21:54.380 who immigrate to the uk so the uk is disproportionately drawing radicals out of

00:21:59.020 these countries which other people have noted gulf or arabian states around 50 percent

00:22:03.720 consanguinous first cousin rates are typically 20 to 50 percent spending on the country or study

00:22:08.120 saudi arabia 25 to 58 percent qatar 35 to 54 percent other middle eastern africa 46 to 60

00:22:15.500 sudan 50 afghanistan 46 egypt 20 to 40 jordan 28 to 64 basically 20 to ranges across the entire

00:22:25.560 region was there an explanation as to why the ranges are so it's just different surveys different

00:22:29.900 measurements like national surveys different measurements people don't want to admit it like

00:22:33.820 let's be honest here that's that's widely what you're getting here and sorry just to make sure

00:22:37.460 i got this right were you saying the pakistani immigrant population in the uk has higher rates

00:22:45.000 of consanguinity than in pakistan yes or is it the other way okay so well that's that's surprising

00:22:52.940 because you would assume that like detractors of your homeland of your culture you have created a

00:22:57.640 condition that leads to tight family networks immigrating in chains and disproportionately

00:23:03.840 prefers more extreme family networks in in terms of their religious beliefs that's what you're

00:23:09.260 going to get okay so in any country where chain migration is taking place yeah you probably would

00:23:15.320 receive more families that are super tight-knit and in this case tight-knit means intermarrying

00:23:21.160 yeah by the way speaking of another piece of misinformation that i've heard a lot recently

00:23:26.140 is because next even said this on our show that asthma gold supported abortion up until the point

00:23:31.340 of birth and he does but why he does makes a lot of sense when it's a non-viable no he he said that

00:23:40.580 the vast majority of the time when you have an abortion after i can't remember what period it

00:23:46.460 was, it was something like 98% of cases. It's because either the baby or the mother is going 0.94

00:23:53.380 to die. And he doesn't want to add that extra requirement. Now I would add that extra requirement.

00:23:59.800 I think that's a perfectly reasonable thing. I feel like a more efficient way to regulate it

00:24:06.680 would be to ban abortions, but to regulate and or permit euthanasia, if that makes sense.

00:24:15.200 well did that take so long to approve i mean i think you just need a one of those

00:24:19.480 with with with nux and i would even point this out to nux if you're familiar with your maimonides

00:24:25.300 what maimonides wrote about when it's okay to kill somebody so like this is still a a killing

00:24:31.700 right yeah it is killing a human like there's there's no way around he said that there's this

00:24:36.120 i forget the the the name of this in judaism it's a specific type of killing because there's

00:24:40.780 different types of killing like a mercy killing no it's a killing that he said it's okay to do

00:24:45.860 when you as as he said you're running from a killer basically you're running from somebody

00:24:52.060 who otherwise would kill you so it's self-defense yeah yeah so no when when one life is endangering

00:24:59.000 another life that is when killing is okay so to get more specific into what maimonides said about

00:25:04.880 this in his discussion of rodef which is the pursuer principle in jewish law where if someone

00:25:10.980 is actively pursuing another person with an intent to kill a rodef you are permitted to in some cases

00:25:16.100 obligated to kill the pursuer first to save the innocent victim if we want to go to direct quotes

00:25:22.140 here he said that we are obligated to destroy the fetus quote because the fetus is considered a

00:25:27.280 pursuer in effect a murderer end quote in threatening the life of the mother in the laws

00:25:32.520 of murder maimonides rules quote if we come upon the potential murderer clutching a knife in pursuit

00:25:39.340 of someone in flight we are obligated to do what we can to stop the pursuer even if that means

00:25:45.560 killing him in quote however he is very clear as well that we quote one cannot get rid of the fetus

00:25:52.540 at will in quote and obviously jews don't have to follow maimonides but i think he's a pretty

00:25:57.520 smart dude and has a fairly good understanding of jewish tradition which would actually put

00:26:02.340 maimonides on the asmogold side of this and nux on the opposite side of this well assuming you

00:26:08.540 you put caveats which i would put caveats on top of what asmogold was saying there but yeah that

00:26:12.620 you have to prove that this is truly a non-viable baby and obviously i love nux's content and the

00:26:22.120 way he sees things i just want to discourage people on our side right here attacking each

00:26:29.640 other or disagreeing with each other especially in ways that don't fully air the other person's

00:26:36.460 perspective if it is more nuanced and i i do disagree with asthma gold's take that this should

00:26:42.720 all still be on on the mother i i do think that there should be some conditions here but i can

00:26:47.760 understand why he has it was the idea that the more bureaucracy you add the more risks you're

00:26:53.120 adding for people which is definitely something i've seen in the medical system and there are

00:26:57.660 people who listen to this podcast who have been told to have like later stage abortions

00:27:02.900 with children that they carry to term who ultimately are fine and running around today

00:27:08.320 so it's it's one of those kind of you know yeah you're right i mean they get it wrong sometimes

00:27:14.780 right yeah that's that's where this is just so fraught it's it's very difficult

00:27:19.420 well i guess what i would look at is the percentage of times that they get it wrong

00:27:25.720 is it incredibly rare that they get this you don't know you don't know if you kill a baby

00:27:31.380 and well no but it doesn't matter if you've killed the baby and removed it from the mother's womb

00:27:35.800 no but if they told the mother this and then she didn't kill it oh okay yes and how many of those

00:27:42.060 basis of how many false positives you're getting okay that's yeah yeah you can look at it from

00:27:47.060 that way yeah so there hasn't been a full study on this but what i'm able to piece together

00:27:51.340 is when a doctor says an infant is going to die in utero,

00:27:55.880 it is true that about 60% of the time they don't die in utero,

00:28:00.580 but of that 60% of the time, they die was in the first hour after birth,

00:28:06.300 and that's at 99% to 95% of the time.

00:28:09.560 But this is highly dependent on the specific complication

00:28:11.980 that's leading to the baby's risk, which I would suggest people take to AI,

00:28:16.100 which can probably give them a much better and more realistic example

00:28:19.220 than the doctor that might have all sorts of negative incentives i guess people in the comments

00:28:23.200 can let us in because that that would significantly change my mind on on that yes and and i'm also

00:28:30.240 pointing out here that it would fall squarely within jewish law to do this even even in a fairly

00:28:35.720 conservative context so that's that's the other thing where i'm like come on man don't don't

00:28:41.520 throw asthma gold under the bus for something like that um but anyway what he said was true

00:28:47.780 what he said was true yeah just didn't he didn't lie or mislead he just didn't include the the

00:28:53.740 context that for me would have made me more sympathetic to his perspective

00:28:58.580 and i think it's important to have that context so our side doesn't fight with each other come

00:29:03.780 on guys let's not fight with each other let's not be like the rest of the right so here i i was

00:29:11.600 looking at rates of diseases but i actually think that people don't care about that you have way

00:29:16.940 higher rates of miscarriages in these countries because of this. And it, and it's like a measurable,

00:29:22.200 uh, you have, yeah, a lot of specific diseases to specific countries, you know, neurological

00:29:30.480 diseases, hearing loss, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, it's basically like these

00:29:35.060 populations have nerfed themselves. What you think of that, I think depends on what part of the

00:29:40.520 cultural war you're on. Yeah, absolutely. While it may surprise you, I know we have Muslims in

00:29:45.700 our audience i would tell them i don't care that it's your tradition don't do it like we know better

00:29:50.800 now and it's not even like mandated in the quran so like what are you doing like my people the the

00:29:58.680 the rednecks the greater appellation people are known for marrying their cousins okay i have this

00:30:06.480 in my traditional background as well but we don't do it once we figured out the science

00:30:11.880 once you were like oh that's terrible to do it's it's not widely practiced in the region today

00:30:19.360 despite and i pointed out because i always try to point out whenever if you look up incest porn

00:30:23.480 it is more searched for in that region than in other regions of the united states yeah you didn't

00:30:28.400 tell me what percentage of the population of different states has consanguinity what is it

00:30:35.640 i don't know you didn't look it up for this you just well no it's incredibly low in the united

00:30:41.340 states it basically doesn't happen anymore in the united states the rate in total is 0.2

00:30:47.460 so dramatically lower than the jews even in fact the difference between muslim first cousin marriages

00:30:54.820 and jewish first cousin marriages is about equal to the difference between jewish cousin marriages

00:31:01.100 and american cousin marriages which is it shows just how low the rate is if you look at here i'm

00:31:07.020 talking about jewish in israel because that's where we got that statistic from and here i have

00:31:11.620 a map of where it's even legal in the united states which is in the minority of states because

00:31:17.160 the groups with that tradition well because it's it is illegal i think in a lot of states remember

00:31:22.260 we did we did that whole episode i did that whole episode on cousin marriage and why it's optimal to

00:31:27.100 either like do a mixed race marriage or to do second or i think third cousin i know i'm not

00:31:34.280 against it once we have good genetic engineering but we don't have good genetic engineering well

00:31:38.600 if if if these if these couples did polygenic risk or selection they could probably avoid 1.00

00:31:47.080 most of the negatives yeah yeah i mean at least they could identify severe genetic disorders that

00:31:54.040 could be passed on things that would lead to a miscarriage or stillbirth it would be meaningful 0.76

00:32:00.540 yeah that is uh look look at that little schmiler oh he's uncertain now he knows 0.91

00:32:11.040 he knows you're paying attention to him the pressure's on he's being observed well you'll

00:32:17.580 have a new one soon enough yeah i hope the bigger kids you see in videos are the babies from early

00:32:23.920 videos of base camp yeah we have been doing this show for multiple years at this point which means

00:32:29.020 you've seen multiple babies people became overly attached to this baby i'm like we're gonna swap

00:32:33.840 out this prop any any time now oh my god and then he'll join the group and he'll goof around

00:32:40.960 he'll join the goof patrol yeah i know he really wants to so i know it'll happen

00:32:46.440 he's excited for that yeah i mean i think one of the big

00:32:53.000 points of cultural sovereignty is look let the competition play out and let the best

00:33:04.160 culture and cultural practices win and oh

00:33:10.280 okay anyway he did he do that he just yeah he just chundered on my hand but it happens

00:33:21.200 right so we ideally i see this as as a like we want to learn from the best practices of other

00:33:31.920 cultures but the other one is like well you don't need to suppress another culture or try to stop

00:33:38.000 them they will stop themselves if they are in some way genuinely inferior and if they're not

00:33:43.500 genuinely inferior if they are in fact more competitive than you then don't you want them

00:33:48.560 to win don't we all want the best man to win and the best culture to win no we all want our own

00:33:55.880 culture to win to an extent well we hope that we win but i mean we hold the view that if we're

00:34:01.040 wrong we would like to be corrected if we have a suboptimal practice we would like to adopt a

00:34:06.760 better practice if our family culture is not great then our we hope that our children choose a better

00:34:13.400 one because we want our our future descendants to do really well with like conservative stuff 1.00

00:34:19.140 banning something like halal food will help keep them out of the uk banning this is just helping 0.74

00:34:24.120 your enemies it's very similar to you know when i talk about the porn bans and stuff like that i'm 0.98

00:34:28.620 like if you have a religious prohibition on pornography because you think it genuinely hurts

00:34:33.100 groups productivity and ability to live a good life and the people who are pro pornography

00:34:38.500 are antagonistic to your group in your value system the last thing you should want assuming

00:34:45.040 you genuinely believe all of that is a porn ban because that would only help the people who hate

00:34:50.880 you and once you eradicate it yeah like implies to me you don't really you're either not following

00:34:57.180 the ban that your own religion has for you or you don't really believe this

00:35:02.520 mm-hmm yeah yeah you're stifling back in yet the what have you not been able to plug back in yet

00:35:11.320 plug back in i can't see your face oh my gosh sorry when did that happen you should have told me

00:35:17.380 i didn't know when did you got it you had a time right after i threw up oh that's probably for the

00:35:24.540 best you didn't see the whole cleanup there because it was it was gross well i love you 0.99

00:35:33.600 this is so much worse than i had expected but it really is it also explains more why the jews 0.99

00:35:41.200 have been able to defeat forces that are so much larger than them in the region and so much better

00:35:45.920 tech than them which they were a lot of people are do jews do jewish groups have um explicit

00:35:50.340 bans on cousin marriage i mean i know that you'd like that for example was prevented like in some

00:35:56.920 cases there are there are religious or cultural ban against cousin marriage and various forms of

00:36:03.060 of family nepotism etc and in other cultures it's celebrated and encouraged so jewish religion

00:36:10.140 generally permits cousin marriages first cousin marriages okay holaka does some closer religions

00:36:16.960 they do not permit siblings parent child and nephew in certain cases that's good those are

00:36:22.940 explicitly prohibited in the torah leviticus 18 the torah does not ban first cousin marriage in

00:36:28.120 fact the talmud even recommends marrying a niece sister's daughter in some context a cousin marriage

00:36:35.060 are viewed as acceptable or even positively with harmony ashkenazi jews following stricter

00:36:39.840 interpretations like the Jerusalem Torah Shalasha Ark and the Sephardi Missouri Jews generally allow

00:36:47.520 it though local civil unions may restrict it e.g. in some U.S. states or countries. Rabbis often

00:36:53.660 advise against following the law of the land. There is no blanket ban across Judaism. It has

00:36:59.760 been practiced historically sometimes at higher rates in surrounding populations e.g. 19th century

00:37:05.040 across parts of europe rates in israel it's 2.3 percent of the israeli population is in a

00:37:11.360 consanguineous marriage with 0.8 percent being first cousins specifically breakdown one to two

00:37:16.560 percent among azkenazi jews up seven to nine percent among mishari eastern jewish groups

00:37:22.300 e.g from iran yemen and tunisia rates have declined over decades with modernization so

00:37:28.940 basically very low but among israeli muslims and druz it's at 40 for israeli muslims and 49 for 0.96

00:37:40.200 israeli druz so it's basically very low but it's a cultural thing which you know makes sense jews

00:37:47.640 generally listen to the science you know if you show a jew a first cousin marriage is going to

00:37:51.260 you up it doesn't matter what the talmud says jews are generally speaking i think going to be 0.88

00:37:56.320 like okay well let's not do that yeah that makes sense well this has been interesting if alarming 0.96

00:38:02.880 i hope that the cultures that choose to continue to practice cousin marriage

00:38:10.560 also adopt medical interventions that reduce the harm caused by that though i mean i don't think

00:38:18.540 that iq in isolation is is something i'm obsessed with i think that people over index on iq and

00:38:26.880 while iq does correlate with a lot of things that we think are good if in the end iq is not

00:38:31.840 correlated with fitness which is to say people who have a high iq if they're not having kids

00:38:36.960 if they're not thriving then like is it really that great who am i to say we'll see in several

00:38:43.920 generations but you know i just don't think we are in a great position to make these judgment calls

00:38:52.240 so let the best culture win all right i love you to decimone have a good day and today i am having

00:39:00.960 bulldog quesadillas and you're gonna chop it finely right oh yes a fine a fine chopping

00:39:08.640 with enoki mushrooms was there enoki mushrooms in that i don't think it was in that batch

00:39:15.320 they were yeah not a lot but there were some

00:39:17.700 and i can have it with some of the fancy salsa

00:39:22.580 fancy salsa and guacamole if you want it but i guess you're not i am too nervous excited to get

00:39:30.960 my techno puritan weapon and you're gonna need to make it make a choice with me and for quesadillas

00:39:36.980 tonight a gochujang chicken quesadillas i guess that's the first we haven't tried that before

00:39:42.160 it sounds delicious right that should be good in theory when you walk around your room sometimes

00:39:50.840 you can like hear that you're walking through like that star wars trash pit it just sounds like that

00:39:59.320 well now that we have in our religion and an oath that says that we have to be armed tomorrow when

00:40:07.300 they do the i'll try to have this episode go live that day on amazon day prime day good day to get

00:40:13.640 your your puritan weapons i was also thinking of and i want i want you to look through for me what

00:40:18.240 i should get and you should get because i think we should both do this take the oath move forward

00:40:23.340 with this you know where are the people doing it at least the primary one is i've been looking at

00:40:28.140 really cool like tactical gladiuses and some like traditional dirks that look cool and then some

00:40:35.420 you know we want to go with our own ancestral tradition the bowie knife would be cool

00:40:39.180 but the bowie knife could cause more issues the bowie knife is clearly out of all of them

00:40:43.820 the most obviously useful in a modern context but have you have you seen a bowie knife by the way

00:40:49.260 simone yes yeah i hadn't i hadn't no i'd forgotten what they look like but they're basically just a

00:40:55.420 giant knife i know i just don't see how that's more useful i feel like smaller knives are often

00:41:01.920 more useful in terms of like everyday things that come up like no the point is self-protection

00:41:08.260 flathead screwdriver letter opener yeah but the point of the entire commandment by jesus and

00:41:15.540 within the context of techno puritanism is self-protection not your daily but i love

00:41:20.900 self-protection that also is a net gain in terms of convenience so the reason why a bowie knife

00:41:27.120 is so useful right is you've got to consider if you are in a knife fight what do you want

00:41:32.540 and a bowie knife was a knife designed specifically to win knife fights i didn't know that by the way

00:41:39.260 i didn't know that either it famously david bowie beat three armed men including an admiral or a

00:41:45.620 captain in a in a fight to the death david bowie no what david bowie oh sorry not david bowie

00:41:54.740 who's the bowie guy i mean i love the idea of david bowie being like also no one knew this

00:42:04.560 but he's a knife fighting champion extraordinaire james bowie james bowie yeah so the the the the

00:42:13.300 the reason why it's so useful for knife fights in case you're wondering is because it one has a

00:42:18.960 a guard like a a sword does a sheath no a guard like a guard if you think of a dirk or a gladius

00:42:28.180 because a core negative to a dirt oh it has like a hilt thingy is they don't have the hand guard 0.60

00:42:33.480 yeah and the second is that it is it is very heavy in terms of you know there's a japanese

00:42:40.360 blade that i have that's similar to that how deep it goes and how it fights yeah it's meant to be

00:42:46.680 just like a really heavy close range knife to knife fight what is my japanese is that a katana

00:42:52.520 blade hold on i'm checking a bowie knife versus katana no no no it's not no no it's like it's a

00:42:59.400 short but it's a short japanese blade that looks a lot like a bowie knife i just can't remember the

00:43:03.760 name of it oh yeah that's what ai is for short what would you get if you were going to get one

00:43:08.600 bowie knife uh gladius or dirk i'm get a japanese blade you get a japanese blade that's not your

00:43:16.440 cultural heritage i was born in japan yeah we're born in japan so you're gonna walk everywhere

00:43:21.480 with it with a katana no it's called oh a waki zashi is that what i have yeah i have a waki

00:43:29.400 zashi i'll just use that but the thing is also like we need to be

00:43:34.440 thoughtful about the correct knives to carry in the presence of children

00:43:41.660 i mean i'll probably need to use a thigh hilt i don't know like we've got to think through

00:43:48.280 logistics so whatever but we will think through logistics and i do think it's good to have

00:43:55.620 distinguishing features so people would immediately see someone and say are they a technopuritan

00:43:59.900 and this is one of the very easy distinguishing features that we can have that also gives us an

00:44:06.700 excuse to have court battles to normalize this for i don't have time for court battles you doofus

00:44:14.760 oh why would we not be because we it would have to be an a person other than us is the only person

00:44:21.880 who could do it why because we we determined what was true in sort of laying down what techno

00:44:30.940 puritans believe so a person could always just say well you did that for yourself whereas you

00:44:37.540 you know you can't just go and say i believe x and then that's written in your religion and then

00:44:42.280 you end up challenging the courts an external person would have to do that to say well the

00:44:48.380 founders of our religious belief said x and i obviously can't go back on that if i've taken the

00:44:53.460 oath do you see why legally you wouldn't be able to win that argument so we'll just lose by default

00:45:03.460 well we would not somebody following our religion

00:45:07.520 yeah i'm not looking forward to any of that

00:45:11.580 do you understand how good it would be for us and the faith if such a battle happened

00:45:18.120 yeah no i think that would be great and that yeah techno puritans would it would have a right to

00:45:24.600 in beyond just not just that but it would give people a reason to convert outside of even 0.98

00:45:31.220 believing the faith it would provide a protection that would prevent sikhs from being treated

00:45:40.880 preferentially in all other contexts that has biblical and historic backing to it and a logical 0.58

00:45:49.720 reason to have this rule given what our faith believes fair enough so that would be huge in

00:45:58.940 terms of pr but as you said i don't want to deal with it and anybody who does decide to deal with

00:46:04.440 it great win for for equality well maybe it can be in 10 years if the religion actually has

00:46:13.240 funds that it can put toward a legal defense fund and pay for that kind of lawsuit that would make

00:46:18.600 sense where it would be at no personal expense to the person involved well a lot of typically work

00:46:26.000 you'd want to pay for a lawsuit that made weapon access equitable

00:46:32.820 yeah obviously

00:46:37.860 so we wouldn't even need us funding it would be an enormous waste of money when there are so many

00:46:45.100 groups that would have a huge vested interest in seeing it go through yeah i guess i could do that

00:46:50.740 maybe because i think a lot of people are squidged out when religion comes into play and this isn't

00:46:57.920 just some token flying spaghetti monster religion designed to allow people to bear arms in public

00:47:04.260 it is an actual fleshed out religion with pretty detailed you know imperatives about how to live

00:47:13.300 life what what has value etc so i think some groups would be like well i don't want to impose

00:47:18.400 that on like i i want to be a catholic and do this or i want to do although i guess you can be

00:47:22.300 a catholic technopuritan weirdly no you can't you can't you can't why because you

00:47:29.480 catholics are literally the one denomination where you can't oh right right right because

00:47:35.020 they're domineering religion so i guess you could be a jewish or protestant technopuritan

00:47:39.020 but you can't be and you can't you can't be a buddhist technopuritan no the reason you can't

00:47:44.420 be a catholic technopuritan is because catholicism defines its heresies clearly

00:47:49.840 technopuritanism falls outside of multiple of those heresies so if you believe what technopuritans

00:47:56.700 believe about the world and god you definitionally believe something that is heretical within the

00:48:02.520 catholic tradition there there is there is no squaring a technopuritan belief about how god

00:48:08.380 works with anything close and even the spirit of the religion even if you're like yeah but

00:48:13.460 technopuritanism is a very flexible religion it's like that is true you could say that you

00:48:18.220 and still be a techno puritan still say that we are getting everything wrong about god we're getting

00:48:22.760 everything wrong about how the world works but the framing like what really makes a person a

00:48:27.680 techno puritan is the framing they use to uncover what's true and and share what's true it's like

00:48:33.420 the way you're approaching your religion the problem is is that the the same laws around what

00:48:38.960 counts as a heresy would prevent that very framing from coming about so if you look at like what could

00:48:46.660 thought of as proto-techno-puritanism was from a catholic priest who went out and said the the his

00:48:52.120 omega point god right where he's like well god is at the end of time right like and the catholic

00:48:57.440 priest who came up with all these ideas and then he was the catholic church said all of these are

00:49:01.760 heretical no uncertain terms so like i guess that's as close as you could get to being a

00:49:07.600 techno-puritan catholic is you could be a descendant of like a a religious descendant

00:49:13.340 of a branch of catholicism descended from that catholic priest's teaching but understanding that

00:49:19.860 it is directly opposed to the vatican's teachings right now but i guess a lot of catholics don't

00:49:25.840 care about that right like they're just like well i just disagree with the vatican and what what

00:49:29.780 they say but this is deeper than disagreeing with the vatican techno puritanism disagrees with the

00:49:34.920 i see in creed right like it it disagrees with with early church councils

00:49:40.300 which makes it way harder yeah that's fair okay fine not catholics protestants jews

00:49:50.680 many other religions mormons you could because the mormon church allows their transhumanist

00:49:57.780 faction to survive and puritanism would fall easily within that transhumanist faction okay

00:50:03.060 um there's there's a few others like you couldn't be a techno puritan and a jehovah's witness you

00:50:09.380 couldn't be a techno puritan and a i think some most orthodox you couldn't be a techno puritan

00:50:13.940 most orthodox because orthodox not all orthodox but but most orthodox also have heresies and if

00:50:20.400 a group has strict heresies it's hard to be in that group and be a techno puritan because then

00:50:24.680 you basically can't experiment with there's just much more rigidity and therefore okay okay yeah

00:50:32.300 I get it then.

00:51:02.300 come to mom's belly and we'll get out of her belly and then he will give in our 1.00

00:51:08.800 man who can play with him. Do you like that? Excellent guess. Octavian, do you know where the 0.88

00:51:16.480 other baby is right now? Oh, the other baby is right at the hospital. Yeah, it's stored at the

00:51:22.600 hospital. Do you know how they stored it? They stored it in like auto-tube. Yes! And do you know

00:51:29.340 how they keep it from dying? By keeping it really cold, right? Why? Basically they

00:51:40.080 freeze it and put it in a state of hibernation. The same thing happened to

00:51:46.160 you Octavian. You were frozen in a metal tank for a very long time inside liquid

00:51:52.800 nitrogen. It would be cold. Yeah, it was super cold. But you were there. Yeah. You lived inside

00:51:59.600 of liquid nitrogen, Octavian. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. But then they thawed you out and transferred

00:52:06.020 you into my body, and I carried you for nine months, and then he came out, and here you

00:52:11.740 are. Yeah. Six years later. Yeah, six. Yeah. Octavian, do you want mommy to have another

00:52:17.780 baby? Yes. Are you sure? Yeah. Why? Because the babies are cute.

Based Camp - June 24, 2026

What's the Intergenerational Effect of Cousin Marriages？ (5 Cousin = 1 Sibling Marriage)

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