Who Are We Afraid of Having Too Many Kids？ & The Rise of the Bergens
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Summary
In this episode, we talk about the high fertility rates of some groups in the world, and how they pose a threat to the rest of the world. We discuss the reasons why this is a problem, and what can be done about it.
Transcript
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Hello, Simone. We had a reporting team over at our house from France that are doing a documentary.
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And they asked people, really nice people. Yeah. They asked a question that I thought was really
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interesting to us, which was, are you concerned about some groups being like really high fertility
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or their groups that you want to be lower fertility that scare you in some way? And this
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is a complicated question because the core answer is no, not really. But it's important to explain
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why the answer is no, because I think to a lot of people who are aware of, we are genetic realists.
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Like I realize that there are things that are heredible within human populations. And we do
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have a level of concern where I'm like, it's not really concern. It's just planning for the future
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because it's just a truism and there's nothing that can be done about it. That one of the cultural
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strategies that is very good at maintaining high fertility rates in the world today are cultures
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that disengage from technology, that engage in practices that make them economically less
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productive because generally in the developed world, the less wealth you have, the more kids
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you have, and that maintain their culture intergenerationally with high fidelity, i.e.
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they don't allow their kids to be deconverted through xenophobia, through dehumanizing other
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groups. So this cultural strategy has co-evolved across many differentiated cultural groups. You'll see
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it in some Muslim groups. You'll see it in some Christian groups. You'll see it in some Jewish
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groups. You'll see it in some Buddhist groups. And invariably, these groups typically have much
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higher fertility rates than the individuals near them. And so people would think, oh, then
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what you must want to do is lower the fertility rate of these communities.
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And to me, that only really matters in so far as you live in a socialist system where groups
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are specifically building hacks that allow a group that is completely economically parasitic
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to carry high fertility. And in that case, it can be damaging to other individuals and to state
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structures in a way that is intrinsically unsustainable and will eventually lead to the
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collapse of the state. So people might hear this and be like, what do you mean? Okay.
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Imagine hypothetically, there was a country that narrowed a group within it out. And this group
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was incredibly high fertility, but economically totally unproductive, technologically totally
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unproductive, and really did nothing to even contribute to the country's military or defensibility,
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right? This group had tripled the fertility of their neighboring groups. Eventually, they would be
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the majority population in that country. Then the country intrinsically collapses because that country
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then cannot beat. It cannot produce the additional goods and the additional wealth and the additional
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technology, which is being siphoned by this high fertility community. And so either it ends this system or
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it eventually collapses. There is no other alternative. The only other alternative I can think of is some
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faction within this parasitic community goes, oh shit, we shouldn't be doing this anymore because
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this is unsustainable and we're going to be the dominant group. And so we need to start doing things
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like start engaging in the military. We need to start engaging more with technological productivity.
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We need to start working more. But then they're not like that group at all. And typically, even if a
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faction of this community does end up adopting these practices, fertility-wise, they're going to be
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outcompeted by the individuals who just did nothing but pump out babies. So it really doesn't work
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unless you cut the state umbilical cord, which ends up saving everyone. Because even the parasite
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ends up dying when the host dies. Yeah. Because no one's going to bankroll the parasite's lifestyle
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anymore. Yeah. So I do have some concern about communities like that. And they exist within many
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countries. Many people might think, oh, you're describing X group in my country. But the group that you
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are thinking of is probably really focused on your country. And so you will see this as an attack
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just as, actually, I don't want to name any groups here. I'm just saying, because then people are like,
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oh, so see, he was talking about that group. But these people exist in France just as much as they
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exist in the United States, for example. But they're everywhere. So they do pose a threat in that
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regards. But if you live in a country like the US, where I hope, or any long-term country that's really
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going to be a player, like long-term in terms of human history, now that humans are super mobile,
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you're going to be dealing with countries that are much lower weight, i.e. they do not have these big
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state welfare systems. And so they might only be charter cities where you end up getting people
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attracted to. But they will be countries that are much lower weight. In those countries, when you have
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sort of true capitalism, I'm really not concerned about these groups at all, at all. And people are
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like, whoa, whoa, why aren't you concerned about them? Because they're going to have such high
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populations in the future. And the answer is, in a future where these communities, and you do see
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this within these communities, are intergenerationally getting dumber. They're selecting for a lower IQ
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within their community because the individuals that are higher IQ are more pro-social, typically get
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deconverted from these communities at higher rates. They're getting dumber intergenerationally,
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and they're getting more technophobic, both biological, like a genetic level, and at a cultural level
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intergenerationally. They are not a threat to families that are, through genetic alteration,
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becoming more. And my kids will have technology we can't even dream of. So you're talking three
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or four generations down the line, likely three or four standard deviations IQ higher than the average
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person today. And with automated, as I say, like AI kill drones, they are not afraid of people who are
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coming at them with sticks and AKs. And this technological gap is widening. And it's one of
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the things we're actually already seeing in society today. And this is where I wanted to talk about
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something that you noticed, Simone. So there were two environments we went to recently. One is a secret
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society. It's called Dialogue. She used to be managing director of it. It was originally founded by Peter Thiel
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and Arne Hoffman. And it's a great group. It's for like, when I say secret society, it's an invitation
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only event for people who are seen that's likely to influence the future of the human race.
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Or who already do. There are different subsets.
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Or who already do. Yeah, there's different. So this was one environment we were at. And then in
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another environment we were at, we went to Vegas for a conference. And so we were hanging around like
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the typical type of person who goes to Vegas and stays at a Vegas hotel. Can you talk about the
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differences in behavioral patterns you noticed in these two communities?
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Yeah, it was so interesting. So I need to always be moving, meaning that I need to go to a gym every
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morning if I can't walk around the streets. And in both instances, when we were at Dialogue,
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we were in the middle of the desert most recently. And when we were at this conference in Vegas,
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we were in Vegas. So at five in the morning, I'm not going to walk around the streets of Vegas.
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So I look for a gym. In Vegas, there were no gyms open, at least at the hotels where we were. And I
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actually walked to other hotels and tried to say that I was a guest there and asked them where their
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gyms were. And they're like, oh yeah, our gym doesn't open until 9am, which is insane. Like
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at Paris, I asked that. I walked over to Paris after our hotel didn't open. People just weren't
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out, weren't up. These are not people who wake up in the morning and go work out, not in Vegas.
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Nobody was like out around jogging. No one was.
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No, you go to the Dialogue. So then you go to the gym.
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Yeah, I went to Dialogue at the hotel gym in the morning. Every single morning,
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the gym is packed. And I'm getting up at 4.30 to go work out in the morning. And it is packed
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full of other dialoguers and only people from the conference, mind you. Like anyone else in the hotel,
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if there was any, they certainly weren't there. And these people are simultaneously, just like me,
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on their phones, doing work, checking in, having short, but very professional chit chat sessions
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with people as they come in and leave and actually working out pretty freaking hard. Like doing full,
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this is my weight regimen. This is whatever. It's not just like faffing about. And it was such a
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difference in selection there where you could really see. And I brought this up to Malcolm and just,
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I was like, you can't experience these different selective bottleneck kind of areas or zones in the
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United States and not start to think that we're speciating. Because when we just walked down the
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streets in Las Vegas, the way people looked, the way people moved, the way people talked was so
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different from an event like Dialogue. It's like these people wouldn't know how to interact if they
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wanted to. I want to elevate what Simone is saying here. There were noticeable physiological differences
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between these two populations that were much larger than the physiological differences I see
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between ethnic groups. Oh, 100%. Yeah, no, no. This makes ethnicity, the concept of ethnicity, a joke.
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And keep in mind, in all of these, like in Vegas, you have tourists as one of the top tourist
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destinations in the world. You have people from all around the world, just like at Dialogue. They're
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very careful to try to be with the society as inclusive and diverse as possible. So you have
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every different type of group, but there is definitely like a clear cluster of what these
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people are. And I have a word that I want to use for this other group, okay? Okay.
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Bergens. So in the Trolls movie, there's this villainous race that then becomes good guys,
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but these people, when I looked at them, like the average gambler- The average Vegas visitor or the
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average dialoger? The average Vegas visitor. Okay.
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Look like a Bergen. And I'll put some videos on the screen here and people will be like,
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Oh, I know the type of person you're talking about. I know the Bergens. I've seen the Bergens.
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I'm looking this up because I don't watch Bergen. Trolls. And I will make it.
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Oh God. Okay. So it's, it's a rotund troll, like actually troll-ish looking troll with bad teeth,
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somewhat malformed, but also meticulously styled in a way where they think that they have a look,
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And so what was interesting to me about this difference is something that you highlighted
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here. And it's something that you see in the data already is that the middle income group is a
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really low fertility group. By the way, if you're wondering what people look like at dialogue,
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like us, I guess I'd say like they look, and this is true across ethnicities, right?
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They look healthy, fit, but not in a muscular or hyper, either hyper-masculine or hyper-feminine way,
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just like that kind of Silicon Valley venture capitalist, like lean, healthy way for the most part,
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but not too lean and not too thick, just right. Because they're all very optimized. They're extremely
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optimized. And they also do not dress. They do not dress in a showy way. They do not dress
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in a sloppy way. They dress in the most inconspicuous, but you know it when you see it
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way. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I say, look up a picture of what venture capitalists look like,
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and you'll immediately know this crowd, right? Yeah. Like Mark Zuckerberg, that kind of look where
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it's, you wouldn't know unless... And when you talk about speciation, one really interesting thing is,
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and I've talked about this before, there's two ways that speciation ends up happening
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within a species. You either get geographic isolation, like a river flows between them,
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genetically isolating the populations that previously weren't genetically isolated,
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or like continents drift apart, or you get behavioral speciation isolation. In behavioral
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isolation, something changes. You get a mutation that changes that leads to portions of the population
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to begin to genetically isolate themselves. And this would be like one group becomes nocturnally active,
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and the other group isn't nocturnally active, and so never awake at the same time when they would
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mate, or they build different mating practices. And we have to think this is exactly what is
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happening with these groups. Keep in mind, we'll say the dialoger group, they're going to elite
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universities where they're only mixing with and meeting with other people. Then they're going to
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elite businesses where they're only mixing with and meeting with specific people who also into the
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elite universities who also have these really high credentials and insanely high levels of
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conscientiousness. And then on the flip side, you have this other group of people that is mixing
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with an entirely different population. So there is no, there's no touching. There's no touching.
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No, but you see this in the data. If you look at fertility rates, the two high fertility groups are
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the incredibly wealthy and the incredibly poor. And then in the middle, you have nothing breeding.
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That, where you have that U right there in a graph, that is behavioral isolation. Historically
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speaking, the behavioral isolation wasn't that bad because you didn't have child support,
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but universally enforced child support increases behavioral isolation because people stop meeting
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with out-groups. And this is what we talked about. You're not going to get the genetic drift
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between the incredibly economically successful population to the rest of the population, which
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historically you would have. Yeah, I guess what's, what needs to happen was like some men from,
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we'll say the dialogue group would sleep with some women from the Vegas group. Yeah.
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To better understand the sex addiction outbreak, we've been running tests on chimpanzees.
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You can see that this entire community of specimens are getting along normally,
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some pairing off others on their own, but now see this chimp here, an average normal adult male
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blending in seamlessly with the others. Now watch, we're going to give it a lot of money.
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They'd have some fun in Vegas. They'd have a kid and then whatever, they'd have several kids.
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But now those men are just polyamorous and only still sleeping with, and not having kids with,
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other very high power women who are also willing to be polyamorous or unwittingly polyamorous as was
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the case with Andrew Huberman and that big New York Times explosion. It came out that he was
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simultaneously dating all these high power women. So that's more what's happening now. There's not
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that, that, that mixing in between the groups, which yeah, you're right, makes it even more profound
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and more of an echo chamber. Yeah. And I think another thing that you mentioned here,
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which I thought was really interesting is that these groups wouldn't know how to talk to each other
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if they met, which is the practices like gambling, for example. I do not understand why you would do
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something where you have a net negative utility outcome. No, see, I disagree. Like a lot of these,
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the people in this group have their poker groups. They love, they freaking love poker.
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Poker is such a thing. But Simone, keep in mind that is not the same thing.
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Yeah. It's not slot machines. No, it's not the same thing at all. It doesn't have a net negative utility
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outcome. So if you are playing poker with a group of friends, that has a net neutral utility outcome
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because you don't have the house. I see. Yeah. Because yeah, yeah. Like the people we know
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in our circles who gamble do so in poker tournaments or among groups of friends and not at casinos.
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Yeah. For the most part. So consider the difference in that behavioral pattern here, right? Yeah.
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But even like the things that they engage with, the ways that you would talk to them,
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you are increasingly getting behavioral isolation between these communities.
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And I should note- It's becoming every year more irreconcilable.
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Yeah. I am not saying this is a good thing. I am not saying I want this for society.
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Mm-hmm. I think it could be a pretty bad thing.
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I think it's a terrible thing. And you know where else you can see it these days, and this is
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so pronounced, is when you look at streaming platforms. And then there's this like huge segment
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of shows where you're like, I don't get it. Who is watching this? Which is really interesting.
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Yeah. No, I know. If you want to see what we mean when we talk about this, go on YouTube and sort for
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It does not make sense to the type of person who watch our channel.
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It would be like, I don't, like, what are these? Why would somebody watch people like rolling a tire
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around? What, what, who is this appealing to? And people are like, oh, this is for children.
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And you're like, yeah, but clearly not all of this is children. Like, how are these getting these most
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viewed statuses? Um, and as a result, I am concerned for these communities. I am concerned
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for their place in the future of the species. If they continue to genetically isolate, like that's a
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going forward 500 years, a scary thing. We may be able to resolve any sort of long-term damage that
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Wouldn't you say those groups are concerned about us that we are these unfeeling on a pencil
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neck glasses wearing. These are the people who also see what we care about and what we value
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Yeah. Um, I can see why, but I'd say it's like functionally, these groups aren't threatening to us,
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but I guess we are threatening to them. And this is always here.
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One of the individuals on YouTube is like, humanity is going to divide into the cyborgs
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and the traditionalists. And he said, the cyborgs will try to stamp out the traditionalists.
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And I'm like, why would the cyborgs try to stamp out the traditionalists? The traditionalists are
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not threats to the cyborgs. The cyborgs are threats to the traditionalists. The traditionalists
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need the cyborgs to not come to exist if they want to maintain economic and political power,
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because as the cyborgs come to exist, they will control an increasing amount of wealth. And even
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if they are isolated into a few city states, right, they still will control so much of the world's
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industry that they will have most of the negotiating power and most of the world's political deals.
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And the cyborgs really don't concern themselves with the non-cyborgs. They just aren't that relevant
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in so far, except in so far as those groups say, you are a threat and I will work to stamp you out.
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And in that case, you're like, okay, either we need to move to a position where we're protected from
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those groups, or we need to, but I don't see any reason to outwardly project or do anything that would
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make us threatening to those groups. And again, we do not see these as groups that should not be
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reproducing. As far as I'm concerned, aside from what you pointed out about certain groups that
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will cause political instability and their own society and their own group to fall because of
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the way that they're living, the only people that we don't want reproducing are the people who don't
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want to reproduce. If you don't want to have kids and if you don't want kids and you don't feel like you
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can raise kids and that you're going to hate them and that whatever, don't have kids. That's, it's so
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simple. Someone commented on our video or one of our videos recently saying something along the lines
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of I'm going to make the world a better place by not having kids. And I'm like, yes, you are. That's
00:19:00.220
perfect. Exactly. Yeah. Probably is. It's something that is, it's interesting. You're talking about
00:19:05.740
this whole pencil neck aesthetic and everything like that. When you're like, how could these pencil
00:19:10.460
neck nerdy strategies possibly compete with other strategies? Right? So a community that
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traditionally went through the pencil neck strategy was the Jewish community. You look
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at the cultural stereotypes. The OG pencil necks. If you look at like the South Park descriptions of
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Jews, like the Jewish stereotypes, it's like, like nerdy, can't play sport and everything like that.
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Oh, well, I grew up in the city. I really don't care for it. I come from a Jewish family, which of
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course you already know because Kyle's from the same family.
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I like to read and I have these polyps on the backs of my hands. I don't know what they are.
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Oh, and I hope one day to be an investment banker. I wouldn't dust all that are available. I usually
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prefer the plastic ones because these give me splinters. I realize we're in the mountains,
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but do we have to freeze today? Now, Kyle, I need you to be quiet. In my class,
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you need to be able to concentrate. Concentration is the key to succeeding to my class. Maybe we'll have
00:20:03.820
to send him to concentration camp. Ah, damn it. Damn it. Damn it. Cut me out.
00:20:08.380
Oh, my. I haven't seen a Jew run like that since Poland 1938. Dude.
00:20:13.500
Okay. And yet, you look at the Yom Kippur wars or something like that where they
00:20:18.060
stomp forces that are much larger than them. I think people, when they remember the Yom Kippur
00:20:25.260
war, they are thinking of Israel today with its military today being up against its neighbors.
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And Israel today, yeah, it has a ton of money that has gone into its militaries. The very modernized
00:20:38.620
military fighting force. That was not true at the time of the Nam Kippur war. The invading armies
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outnumbered the Israelis at a ratio of 100 to 1 in manpower and 10 to 1 in armor and artillery.
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And since the bulk of the Israeli army is made up as reservists, it took two days for them to mobilize
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and deploy. To give you an example of one specific phalanque that they were dealing with, in the south,
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the numbers were even more lopsided. Five Egyptian infantry divisions was nearly
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100,000 soldiers, 1,300 tanks, and 2,000 artillery pieces, launched themselves across the Suez Canal
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against just some 450 poorly trained Israeli reservists. And they were being attacked from
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all sides at once. It was a surprise, so they didn't know this was happening, and all of the
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sides that were attacking them had plenty of time to prepare, and they stomped them. We'll never get
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over people who say that Israel should give back land that they took during that war. No,
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they won that land fair and square. The idiots who attacked them lost it fair and square.
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Look at the impact they have on the geopolitical landscape today. They stomp even much larger,
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much bigger powers. You look at groups that outnumber them, that come and attack them,
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and these other groups are all about strengths, and they're from cultures. They're all about how tough
00:21:59.820
you are and everything like that. And they just get smashed by a culture that was selecting for
00:22:05.660
pencil neck nerds. Like why? Because it turns out that in the world of technology, how good you are
00:22:12.300
at fighting. We had an episode recently that touched on some of these topics on like the cultures that
00:22:16.380
Andrew Tate is from and that he tries to elevate about how you want to be like the toughest person.
00:22:20.940
It's like how tough you are doesn't matter when your opponent is an automated drone with a gun on it,
00:22:26.940
or worse, a gene engineered virus that is sterilizing populations that have outwardly threatened their
00:22:34.620
neighbors. We are entering a world where your fists just don't matter that much anymore.
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And we've already entered that world to an extent. So to act why I am
00:22:56.860
not concerned about these communities and why I think it is always a bad idea to try to
00:23:03.180
limit fertility of groups that you disagree with, it is, I guess it's a thing, right? If I came from
00:23:08.540
a different culture and my strategy was different, if I was taking a traditionalist, technophobic
00:23:13.260
strategy, the way I beat my neighbors is by sterilizing them. If you're taking a, because you're going to be
00:23:21.260
at the same tech level as these other people and so then it's the bigger number wins, right? But if you're
00:23:27.580
going with any sort of a pluralistic strategy that is incredibly technophilic, you, the last thing you
00:23:33.660
want to do is to try to sterilize other groups that are taking different strategies. Because that makes
00:23:38.780
you a threat to those groups, which makes wiping you out necessary for those groups.
00:23:43.100
Well, but also if you're trying to wipe out those groups, you're eliminating the very thing that you
00:23:49.420
Which is the diversity within the human population.
00:23:52.060
I think that the strategy that I am adopting and that will end up winning, will end up winning.
00:23:57.500
And I can be provably wrong here, right? That's the thing.
00:24:00.380
Yeah. If the strategy that we are raising our kids within is not economically productive,
00:24:06.460
is not technophilic, is not really engaged with technology, if it turns out that engaging with
00:24:11.260
technology doesn't give groups in the future an enormous industrial and military advantage,
00:24:17.580
then my key theses are wrong and my group deserves to go extinct, right?
00:24:23.580
Yeah. And so also those who think that we're taking a dumb approach or who do not like what we're
00:24:28.060
doing, don't worry. If you think we're going to fail, then there's nothing wrong with us because
00:24:33.100
we're going to fail and we won't be a problem for you.
00:24:40.940
And I think that this is, God, I don't remember what I was going to say here.
00:24:46.460
I would point out just one, one additional thing is anyone who believes that there are certain
00:24:52.700
groups that should not be reproducing is truly by definition, a eugenicist because they believe
00:24:59.500
in coercive population level adjustments to certain groups. And we are actually quite against
00:25:07.980
eugenics. So there's that. I would just add, it's just not something that we believe in.
00:25:15.340
And in the end, I think anyone, people, I think also often, maybe I'm taking a dumb direction with
00:25:21.500
this, but they associate some form of social or cultural Darwinism with eugenics as well of let
00:25:28.540
the fittest survive, blah, blah, blah. But you can't have real evolution when you are artificially
00:25:37.580
messing with a system. So anyone who actually believes in evolution or actually wants the fittest
00:25:44.220
to win should not be intervening because only physics, only like literally the technical
00:25:53.340
mechanical limits on reality have the right, have dominion to determine who is fit and who is not.
00:26:06.460
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. And this is what really disgusts me was Europeans laws that limit
00:26:11.260
reproductive choice in order to sterilize groups like us. Because as one reporter in Europe,
00:26:16.940
they were like, if you do this in X many generations, one of your children are much
00:26:20.140
smarter than everyone else. And it's like, why is that a problem? Our smart people today,
00:26:24.540
would our country be better off if we just didn't have the inventor of penicillin? If we didn't have
00:26:33.420
Einstein, if we didn't like, does society get better when you get rid of all the smart people?
00:26:38.060
Everyone is better off if you have some group that is ultra intelligent,
00:26:41.900
so long as that group doesn't have a mindset that they want to get rid of people who are
00:26:45.820
different from them. And I think that fundamentally shows how this urban monoculture has been able to
00:26:51.100
maintain the harmony it maintains is by acting as if everyone really is exactly the same.
00:26:57.740
And through acting that way, through acting as if there's no real differences in any individual,
00:27:02.540
they're able to keep this cultural detente. And when we talk about things like genetic selection,
00:27:07.420
like we do as our kids, and they project that forwards, they're like, oh, that could create
00:27:11.660
humans that are so different from other humans that our system of just pretending like everyone's
00:27:17.740
actually the same won't work anymore. How does society work then? And it's like, oh,
00:27:23.900
I have a great idea. How about like, we accept and value diversity? That thing that you've been
00:27:29.020
telling everyone that you were doing, but you never were actually doing, because
00:27:33.100
everyone benefits in that system. Both the super intelligent, they benefit because no one is
00:27:40.060
trying to threaten them, right? And everyone else because of the technology and the industry that the,
00:27:46.140
because keep in mind, what is industry? People hear industry and they say factories. Industry is you
00:27:50.940
having a diversity of food on your plates. Industry is your grandparents not dying when they get old
00:27:56.540
because there's no money. Like when people hear about like industry or economics, what they think
00:28:03.020
is, oh, they're just talking about wealth. And then we're talking about people not starving to death.
00:28:07.420
Okay. We're talking about the United States not turning into a Haiti. Most of the metropolitan area
00:28:12.860
is controlled by around 150 criminal groups, which the government has failed to stop. Their members
00:28:19.580
terrorize the population for kidnapping, murder, sexual violence, looting, and burning down homes.
00:28:26.540
According to the United Nations, criminal groups killed over 2,000 people and kidnapped more than
00:28:32.220
1,000 others during the first half of 2023. Almost 200,000 people have fled their homes since 2022
00:28:40.380
due to violence. Many lack access to adequate food, water, shelter, education, health care,
00:28:47.500
and other basic services. Oh, and don't even come at me with that nonsense that Haiti is only poor
00:28:52.540
because it had an unfair loan. You know what other country had an unfair large loan it had to play?
00:28:57.900
Yeah. Germany. Okay. You don't get to just pull out that card when it fits your narrative.
00:29:04.220
Okay. You can look at something like Haiti and I think it was 89% of college grads would
00:29:09.500
immigrate out of the country. You do that for three or four generations, ignore the genetics. Just
00:29:14.060
culturally, you're in a horrible situation that was almost guaranteed to end where it's ended.
00:29:19.660
That is what happens when you strip industry from society. So we wrote a piece
00:29:25.100
for Aporia and the most, and we were like, we were talking about our solution and the religious
00:29:29.580
thing that we were building. And the most common criticism of that piece was why does industry
00:29:35.980
matter for your culture? Like why do you care so much about technophilia and industry as a cultural
00:29:41.340
group? Why is it important to keep that intergenerational? Why not just go back to one of these older systems
00:29:47.180
and fix fertility rates by disengaging from technology and industry? And the answer
00:29:53.340
to me was just so obvious. I don't know how they didn't see it.
00:29:56.460
If you are a technologically or industrially unproductive group, you live at the whims and
00:30:07.340
The owners of this country are high fertility, but they are only allowed to maintain their
00:30:13.020
culture and their cultural strategy because their neighbors have decided to allow them to do it.
00:30:18.460
Yeah, they live entirely at the whims of the U.S. government and in general,
00:30:23.180
voters being okay with them living their lives the way they do.
00:30:26.220
Exactly. Having cultural autonomy is completely dependent on your level of industry and technophilia
00:30:38.380
when contrasted with neighboring populations. So if you find a cultural strategy that keeps your
00:30:45.340
fertility rate high, and it is not within the global ecosystem, on par with or greater than other
00:30:53.260
systems in terms of technological output or industrial output, you will eventually be living
00:31:01.660
at the whim of somebody else. Somebody else saying, I will allow you to keep living the way you're living.
00:31:07.260
Yeah, and I think there are plenty of historical examples that people can look at
00:31:10.940
of groups that were permitted to exist because they provided useful products and services for the
00:31:18.540
rest of society that society was like, I'm not going to mess with them because I want that stuff.
00:31:22.220
I want, I need that thing. Yeah. It is interesting to me that people could be so blind to the utility
00:31:32.380
of industry and technophilia. And it's also why when I look at these groups that are like, no,
00:31:36.860
just be tough. Just go back to old masculine things and ungabunga your way through. It's okay,
00:31:42.860
ungabungas. You may exist in the future, but you will live at the whims of the cyborgs,
00:31:50.940
as the one person calls at the whims of the people who through technological engagement and
00:31:58.140
willingness to try to intergenerationally improve you. And, and I hope when what the
00:32:04.220
pronatalist movement is really about is creating an alliance of those technophilic and industrial
00:32:08.860
productive cultural groups so that we do not hinder each other's goals and that we can create,
00:32:15.820
you know, what we call the covenant of the children of man, an alliance among us that we will never
00:32:22.140
impose our values on the other groups that we will never, uh, even if we disagree with them,
00:32:30.860
whether they take some, you know, incredibly technophobic stance and they go back to a really
00:32:36.060
old way of living like Amish or whatever like that. I never want my descendants threatening a group like
00:32:41.980
the Amish, which are one of no threat to us to do not live off of the state infrastructure at all.
00:32:48.780
They are, they don't even like take like welfare. They don't take, they are almost the ideal,
00:32:55.020
I would say technophobic cultural group, because the only way that they are parasitic is in relying on
00:33:01.900
not engaging with the draft and not engaging with the military. And even then I would just say,
00:33:06.300
then just don't bother them. Don't bother them. It's really important to me that the winning group,
00:33:10.780
the people who comes out of this as this industrial and scientifically productive group
00:33:15.900
has pluralism so ingrained in who they are that they never go and try to stamp out the others.
00:33:22.860
And why is that important? Why is that existentially important? Because if you don't ingrain that in them,
00:33:28.060
if you allow racists or supremacists to come into this community and one faction of them becomes
00:33:35.580
smarter than the faction that I'm a part of, i.e. they end up having better genetic technology or
00:33:41.820
better technological technology, and they end up a few standard deviations smarter than my descendants,
00:33:46.620
then they'll decide that my descendants need to go. Because if they, right now, if you look down on
00:33:51.260
other ethnic groups due to maybe marginal differences in various proficiencies, if those
00:33:58.300
differences became actually large and meaningful through technological engagement, those individuals
00:34:06.220
are going to look at my descendants the way that they looked at, unless my descendants happen to be in
00:34:10.300
the most winning of winning groups, which I think is an unrealistic expectation of the way that they
00:34:16.220
look at other ethnic groups today, which is why we have to be like the one area we cannot really
00:34:23.260
brudge on the pro natalist alliance is not allowing these individuals in. Because as they become
00:34:30.780
technologically and genetically uplifted, they become a threat to everyone else. If they have any of these
00:34:38.940
sort of pre-encoded, either culturally or in any other capacity, beliefs about certain groups
00:34:45.980
being superior to other groups and having the right to impose their value systems on other cultural
00:34:50.620
groups. There you have it, Malcolm. Love you to death, Simone. I love you, too.