Based Camp - Who is the Anti.Prophet？ From 0 to 2M followers in 1Y

00:00:00.000 There were two videos that really, really blew up on YouTube, each of which has around 40 million

00:00:05.240 views. The first was me making a comment about this kid who had taken a selfie in front of a guy

00:00:13.300 who was dead at Starbucks, who had just gotten stabbed. And you see the dead guy on the ground,

00:00:18.360 there's just blood everywhere. And this guy's like, bro, this guy just fucking died, bro. 0.99

00:00:23.260 And the comment that I made is, you know, what people generally say when they see a video like 0.98

00:00:28.340 this is like, oh, social media has ruined the world. But in my mind, social media more than

00:00:32.000 anything is this perfected tool that basically mirrors back to you what it is that you want to

00:00:37.540 see. And that's what it's incentivized to do in order to keep you on the app for as long as you

00:00:41.340 want. So the fact that that kind of content blew up and that someone feels like they could build

00:00:46.480 career around that because they knew people would eat it up is not a reflection of how bad social

00:00:51.260 media is. It's a reflection of like the monster that you see in the mirror yourself. Would you

00:00:56.160 like to know more? Hello, Simone. We have a very special guest with us today. The anti-prophet,

00:01:02.800 Abe, you haven't heard of him. That may not be surprising, but you will soon. So I want to just

00:01:10.780 as somebody who like stays up to date with what's going on and sort of the online intellectual space

00:01:15.880 and the online conservative sphere, this guy started his channel at the end of 2022. So basically

00:01:23.080 about a year ago in a little bit, he is already at over 2 million followers. His core thing is if

00:01:32.680 you watch his channel, it's very, I'd say Chris Williamson, like very just sort of sane, non like

00:01:39.540 out there content, like the type of content where like somebody understands like the red pill concepts

00:01:45.600 and stuff like that, but they also understand where they've gone off the rails. And somebody

00:01:50.300 understands like wokeism and how it distorts reality, but doesn't have any antagonism towards

00:01:58.020 it. And so it was just shooting straight on everything. And I really love this. And I wanted

00:02:02.580 to have you on to talk about how you achieved this, because it's very clear that some people,

00:02:10.740 when they have pseudonymous selves within the online sphere, it's because they had a profile where they

00:02:16.740 were just posting like angry and they didn't want it connected to their real life. Yet with you,

00:02:21.640 everything seems very intentional. Like you went into this as a career pathway and one designed to

00:02:29.340 inject sanity into the online discourse. So I want to know more, how did you accomplish this? And how did

00:02:36.180 you sort of approach this? What were you thinking when you went into this?

00:02:39.720 Yeah, man, good question. And thank you guys for having me on. So I think it's very fair to say that

00:02:45.020 I went into this very intentionally. And the reason for that is when I started Antiprofit,

00:02:50.480 I was actually managing the 15 person team of a very large content creator. So I had a lot of

00:02:55.780 insight into how social media actually worked, how the sausage was actually made. And as a result of

00:03:01.620 that, you know, I was able to go into this kind of understanding the volume that I would have to put

00:03:06.300 out and the type of production quality that I wanted to achieve right out of the gate. And I also knew

00:03:11.500 my shortcomings when it came to social media. For example, I know how to video edit. I'm a,

00:03:17.280 I would say lower intermediate editor. I could certainly do the types of edits that I

00:03:22.000 produce in short form, but I absolutely hate editing. And I knew that if I was going to force

00:03:29.500 myself to do the editing, there was going to be no longevity with this project. And similarly,

00:03:33.220 I wanted to make sure that my content was being posted within American hours because I wanted to hit

00:03:39.400 an American audience. And in order to do that, I would have had to wake up at 6 AM every morning

00:03:43.600 and post my content. And I'm not a morning person. And I knew right out of the gate,

00:03:48.040 that was not going to happen. So right out of the gate, I hired that video editor and that social

00:03:52.080 media manager to ensure longevity. And I think outside of that, just because of the volume that

00:03:57.960 I was putting out, originally I was putting out, you know, 14 videos a week on three different

00:04:02.540 platforms. And it just gave me a lot of data to work with very, very quickly that allowed me to

00:04:08.680 learn very quickly as well. And I think that's the biggest thing that beginning content creators

00:04:13.480 need in order to figure out what works with their audience, what doesn't, and what the market kind

00:04:18.920 of wants from them. And I'm very, very lucky. So you said something there that surprised me.

00:04:23.080 You're saying that you needed to be releasing the videos at a time when you were awake. Is that

00:04:28.000 because scheduling videos in some way hurts you in the algo, or was that because you wanted somebody

00:04:31.480 to be interactive in the comments? Sure. So on YouTube, scheduling is no problem,

00:04:36.420 but on something like Instagram, if you're using third-party posting applications, that's

00:04:40.480 something that Instagram really does not take kindly to. It takes it as sort of like bot mechanisms

00:04:46.020 working in the background. And as a result, it's very, it happens a lot where people actually lose

00:04:51.560 access to their accounts because they're posting using third-party software and then they show up

00:04:56.680 to the algorithm as a bot. So you have to actually kind of be there to like manually post. Even if you

00:05:02.460 draft it beforehand, you got to manually hit the post button if you're doing a creator account.

00:05:09.320 So I want to go into the brand that you created here, whether it is the stuff in your background,

00:05:15.000 the way that you dress, the way that you have done your pseudo anonymity, and the name of the account,

00:05:20.620 Antiprofit. Can you just go into that, what you were thinking when you were creating this?

00:05:24.380 Sure. So, you know, I knew I had a lot to say and I, again, had that background in social media.

00:05:31.500 So I got to a certain place where I was like, all right, I'm going to try this out for myself.

00:05:35.200 And the mask was actually sort of needed out of practicality to begin with, because again,

00:05:41.180 I was working for this other creator and I knew that he was not going to be okay with me posting

00:05:47.400 about the types of things that I post about while also representing his brand. So I went on a search

00:05:51.600 to find a mask. And I think when I first settled on this mask, it was mostly just kind of a

00:05:58.600 subconscious thing. I just saw it. It was gut instinct. I was like, okay, that one.

00:06:01.920 It's really cool.

00:06:03.580 It's cool. And I think on top of that, the nice thing that I've sort of realized over time is that

00:06:10.380 the fact that this is a blank face really, I think, kind of lowers people's guard to a certain degree

00:06:16.880 so that they can listen to the argument that I'm making for 60 seconds and kind of decide for

00:06:20.440 themselves whether or not they buy into it or not. And then, you know, kind of ask themselves a

00:06:24.520 question about a sacred cow that they happen to believe in. And, you know, if the question that

00:06:29.460 I'm having them ask themselves as a result of my content causes them to poke some holes in that

00:06:33.740 sacred cow and it loses water, then that gives them the opportunity to go and potentially find a

00:06:38.960 stronger sacred cow that serves them a little bit better in their lives. Or if my question that I'm

00:06:44.400 having them pose to themself causes them to go and poke that sacred cow of theirs. And it still

00:06:48.820 stands the test of time. Then it's an indication that, uh, whatever it is that they're doing in

00:06:53.600 their personal life is, uh, working for them and that they should continue in that direction.

00:06:57.180 So I think anti-profit, I really started this again, I think subconsciously from the beginning,

00:07:02.940 but over time it's become very conscious. I don't want to be, uh, I don't want to basically just come

00:07:08.180 out and be an edgelord with like very conflicting opinions or very hot takes for the sake of being

00:07:13.400 incendiary. I want to have you challenge your own deeply held beliefs simply to see if you actually

00:07:21.480 believe them and make a, an informed decision moving forward about whether or not you keep that

00:07:26.800 belief around. So, uh, the name anti-profit, what was the idea behind that? What was it supposed to

00:07:33.040 invoke? Sure. So it was funny getting into this. I was actually thinking to myself, you know, what would

00:07:38.960 be a cool name? And this is actually from a French film. That's really, really great. I don't

00:07:42.660 remember the director, but the film is called the prophet. And I was thinking about actually

00:07:47.440 calling myself the prophet at the very beginning. And I was like, nah, that's, that's too hokey.

00:07:51.460 And it's also like to like, Ooh, look at me. I'm so cool. And I also really did not want to be

00:07:58.180 anyone's guru going into this. I didn't want to be like the person that people look at and be like,

00:08:03.280 yeah, that's what he thinks. And as a result, that's what I think too. That was like the antithesis of

00:08:08.940 what I was going for. And I think even just that word that I used right there, that's what sort of

00:08:13.500 led me to the, the name anti-profit is just like, I don't want to be your prophet. I want you to 0.96

00:08:18.980 look inside of yourself for the answers. And as a result, don't look at me as your guru.

00:08:23.800 That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And that's very much the theme of the channel for people

00:08:27.300 haven't seen it yet is challenging the wisdom of online guru communities.

00:08:32.540 Yeah. Well, while still finding the truth within them. And I feel like the mask is perfect for that

00:08:37.000 because people really do look at appearances when deciding how they're going to interpret content.

00:08:42.640 I mean, we get that all the time because we look like pasty pencil neck nerds. And I think it does

00:08:47.240 definitely influence the way that people view us and view what we're saying. So it's just so smart

00:08:52.720 that like, not only with the mask, but also you ask incredibly thoughtful questions. And I'm curious,

00:08:59.280 like, how do you prep for the content that you're, you're creating, be it shorts or more long form,

00:09:05.520 like the questions you create and the questions you often pose with the shorts that you're making too

00:09:11.240 are quite interesting. And one thing that I've, I've always struggled with is we've,

00:09:15.720 we've had friends in the past that have been insanely successful with creating a lot of content that

00:09:20.880 tons of people watch. Right. But it's all like, it's, it caters directly to the lowest common

00:09:26.280 denominator. Like this is the rainbow hair group, you know, and like, it just like, it's not changing

00:09:31.220 people's views and you're actually asking profound questions and getting people to think differently.

00:09:36.340 How have you managed to walk that line between lowest common denominator and fast growth and

00:09:41.740 spreading versus asking questions that actually make people think, which they don't typically like

00:09:46.400 to do. So that's kind of a two-part question. Like one, like what's your episode, like ideation and

00:09:51.360 preparation process. And then two, how do you manage to walk that line?

00:09:55.300 Sure. Well, I'll answer the idea of preparation as far as shorts are concerned, at least what I've

00:10:01.040 been doing over the last two months, which is kind of returning to my roots. It's just talking about

00:10:05.660 whatever happens to be on my mind that day and recording it. I actually don't do a lot of prep

00:10:09.900 for these shorts at this point. Previous to that, there was about an eight month period where I was

00:10:14.800 going through and really scripting out my arguments word by word, because I, I was really trying to

00:10:20.720 kind of make complex arguments and I wasn't used to doing that. And I think as a result of that, it really

00:10:26.680 required me to sit down and kind of flesh out my, my thoughts. And I think just since I did it, I got to

00:10:32.840 a place where I felt more comfortable just going back to what I was doing originally, which is really just

00:10:37.240 kind of riffing into a camera and doing it that way. And I think the funny thing with that is, you know, I'm still

00:10:43.840 getting, you know, my thoughts across on a, on a day-to-day basis, but it's coming across more

00:10:48.320 organically. And I think this kind of answers the other question that you were, that you're posing

00:10:52.340 is the organicism of my delivery seems to be something that people connect with. And I think

00:10:58.840 whatever it is in terms of the way that I'm communicating, people also find it easy to digest.

00:11:05.500 I don't really know why that is. And it's, it's the kind of thing where I'm like eternally grateful

00:11:10.360 that anyone would have any interest in hearing what it is that I have to say, but in terms of making

00:11:15.300 it accessible to people, you know, I've, I've tried going in the direction of hiring really

00:11:19.660 fancy editors to do like really fancy animations throughout the course of my, my shorts. And in,

00:11:25.180 even in doing something like that, where it's visually much more engaging for whatever reason,

00:11:30.040 it just turned people off. My views actually went down while I was paying 10 times more

00:11:33.380 for the actual editor. And, you know, I went back to my normal editing style where you see me and it

00:11:39.700 just flips to some B-roll to kind of further demonstrate the point that I'm making. And that seems to be the

00:11:44.040 thing that really comes across. But I think maybe the, the overarching answer that I'll give is this.

00:11:49.460 I don't think that me kind of dumbing it down as the main appeal to people. I think the fact that I'm

00:11:56.080 trying to go into these issues without leaning on polarization and in, in other words, being like

00:12:03.640 the Mr. Beast of like the political world, which is kind of what I think everyone is doing right now.

00:12:08.860 I think it's a kind of a breath of fresh air that, you know, someone can watch a piece of content and

00:12:14.560 ask themselves a question at the end of it, rather than have an opinion to shove down their throat.

00:12:18.720 So maybe that's the, the, the aspect that it makes it easier to digest.

00:12:23.040 I wanted to pull on something you said there when you were talking about the two different types of

00:12:27.280 content that you had experimented with producing, i.e. the scripted and unscripted, which does better in

00:12:33.520 the algo for you in which types of subjects do you find do better for your audience? And, and then as

00:12:40.820 a follow-on to this, how do you think about balancing subjects that do well with the algo

00:12:46.760 with subjects you really want to get across? Yeah, good question. So firstly, my organic improv

00:12:54.660 delivery has always done better. I think it just has to do with like the organic inflections in my

00:13:00.660 voice when I'm speaking naturally, as opposed to talking, like I'm reading from a script like that.

00:13:05.480 You know what I mean? I think it's just a little bit easier to digest. Sorry. What was the second

00:13:08.700 question one more time? So balancing different topics. So like on our channel, we have some

00:13:12.900 topics that do better than others, but I know if I ever go hard into just one topic, that's doing

00:13:18.180 really well, then the algo will only show us to people who are interested in that one topic.

00:13:22.720 A great example where I learned about this was from the game theory and game theory really hated that his,

00:13:27.960 his, his five nights at Freddy videos always would really outperform everything else,

00:13:31.960 but if he ever leaned too hard into five nights and Freddy's, then he would only get recommended

00:13:36.780 to people who are interested in five nights at Freddy's that would significantly hurt his reach.

00:13:41.000 So how do you think about balancing that? And what's your five nights at Freddy's on your channel?

00:13:46.920 Yeah, sure. And my five nights at Freddy's on my channel is Israel and Hamas. 1.00

00:13:51.800 No.

00:13:52.240 Yeah, no, that like, it does really well with my audience just because it really gets people

00:13:58.720 talking in the comments, but it, it destroys my reach. I, it's just, it's the kind of content

00:14:03.580 that's never like recommended to anyone. And, you know, understandably so these, these, you know,

00:14:08.260 social media platforms don't really have a lot to gain by pushing that out from an advertising

00:14:13.100 perspective. So I understand, but in terms of the content that just does well in general,

00:14:18.600 it seems to be the case that when I speak about things inside of pop culture or inside of like

00:14:24.400 just the general cultural zeitgeist for people between the ages of 18 and 34, that does a lot

00:14:29.960 better than if I do anything related to politics, anything related to philosophy, which sometimes

00:14:36.340 to me is a little bit frustrating, but I think the nice thing about current events and pop culture

00:14:40.980 and that kind of thing is I can always use, you know, the things that I'm reading about politics or

00:14:45.700 philosophy or the most recent article that I've read by like Leo Strauss to inform my opinion of

00:14:51.120 whatever I'm saying about Ariana Grande, you know, instead of just coming out and being like Leo

00:14:55.320 Strauss would have this to say about it. It's, that's not a good way to frame it. But if you allow

00:15:00.240 what's kind of cooking in the back of your head to come out in your commentary on things that people

00:15:07.320 are actually thinking about, then it's, it's a good way to kind of marry the two things.

00:15:10.560 Well, I love that. Well, and philosophy is best when applied and not discussed in a vacuum out

00:15:16.440 of context. Beautiful. Do you have a long-term sort of ideological objective with the channel or

00:15:24.600 career objective with the channel? Like, do you plan to transition this into something else or do you

00:15:28.860 plan to like shift the, the flows of thought of society? Flows and thought of society. I, I actually

00:15:35.240 try and make a point to not admit that out loud, but I think something that I'd really love to instill

00:15:41.640 in my audience as it continues to grow is the idea of centering your life around the truth or at the

00:15:48.440 very least in the pursuit of truth. I think there's a lot of value to that. I think it's the thing that

00:15:52.860 does a really good job of holding society together. And I think even with the products that I'm building

00:15:57.940 out, I'm really making an effort to focus on providing like truthful statements and honest,

00:16:04.380 like business practices in an industry, which is quite frankly, just run amok by influencer scams.

00:16:10.620 And I, I'm, I'm actually currently building out a product to specifically try and fix that. So I

00:16:16.600 think telling the truth as much as you can, both to yourself and to others is the way that I'd love

00:16:22.140 to ideologically change society. If I am able to do that, I don't know. Talk about these products,

00:16:27.000 like, like what products are you building out and what is your plan with them? Cause I'm not

00:16:30.240 familiar with this. Hold on. Where will people know like where to find them when it's actually time?

00:16:34.380 Yeah. Well, just follow me on my, on my page. You'll, you'll, you'll definitely hear about it

00:16:39.020 from there. The product on a building out though, is kind of something akin to hustlers university

00:16:44.300 where, you know, it's a subscription, you go in, you learn how to make money online, et cetera. But

00:16:48.880 it's very much focused on the area that I have a lot of expertise in and that I have a really great

00:16:53.520 network in, which is social media. And the reason I chose that is because I could have gone the

00:16:57.940 direction of, you know, essentially just doing a hustler's university where I teach like day trading

00:17:02.780 and like crypto gains or whatever. And it just, it, it didn't really feel authentic and I don't know

00:17:08.900 anything about it. And I would be at the mercy of whatever random coach I brought on in order to try

00:17:12.600 and make a quick buck, which I didn't want, did not want to do. And you know, there are a lot of

00:17:16.960 studies coming out. I would actually use this by the way. Like, I want to know how you got to 2

00:17:22.780 million followers in one year. Yeah. Sounds like we're signing up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so with,

00:17:28.580 with this particular product, it's actually a little bit of a change. It's not so much how to

00:17:32.120 grow on social media. It's to teach people how to be the people that sell the shovers to the

00:17:36.980 incoming wave of creators that are coming in over the next couple of years in order to help them make

00:17:41.040 money. So I'm actually teaching people how to be a COO, to manage teams, to manage systems inside of a

00:17:46.720 creator company, how to manage high ticket sales teams, how to basically build out scripts, CRMs,

00:17:53.340 that type of thing, how to manage communities, how to negotiate brand deals, that kind of thing.

00:17:57.540 So you're being the Levi's Krause in the gold rush and not the gold prospector, which is very smart.

00:18:02.520 You got it. Everyone wants to be a YouTuber now.

00:18:04.920 Yeah, exactly. And that's going to-

00:18:06.440 You're teaching people how to be Levi's. Well, to, to, to, and I like that. I mean,

00:18:10.020 I think that this is what's really needed as the university system increasingly as just a utility to

00:18:14.880 get bureaucratic jobs, teaching people how to functionally make money on their own,

00:18:18.940 which is really important for another thing that's important for you, which is what's,

00:18:23.260 what's the word again? Digital nomading. Okay.

00:18:25.540 It's a really important part of digital nomading is being able to develop your own income streams

00:18:29.520 outside of bureaucracies. So I'd love to hear a little bit about digital nomading. Was this

00:18:34.220 something you were doing before this? Was this something that this unlocked? Like, how do you

00:18:38.240 think about digital nomading, the digital nomading community in this career path?

00:18:42.520 Sure. So yeah, digital nomading was something that I kind of first got into when I first started

00:18:47.060 managing the team for this content creator that I worked for. And as a result of that, and as a result

00:18:52.040 of certain people in that person's network, I got a lot of exposure to, you know, the, you know,

00:18:57.720 obviously living abroad, which was really great, but I also got a lot of exposure to a lot of creators 0.98

00:19:01.620 creating products and services that were just complete dog shit. And I think I saw between that, 0.97

00:19:09.480 as well as, you know, watching someone like CoffeeZilla or something, I saw a lot of faith lost

00:19:14.220 in the creator economy. And which I think is really, really too bad. And I think, you know,

00:19:21.040 one of my values is being able to leave the US even just for a few months, just to kind of get

00:19:25.680 yourself outside of the pressure cooker to realize that there's a bigger world than what's happening

00:19:29.180 in my case in Salt Lake City, Utah, or New York City, or Miami, or, you know, Topeka, Kansas.

00:19:34.620 And to be able to go and make that change by not just learning how to make money online, but to be a

00:19:43.180 part of a community that is very much centered on the truth and pursuing ethical business practices.

00:19:49.800 Because in my mind, if there are a bunch of digital nomads who are supporting all of these incoming

00:19:54.460 creators by being the Levi Strauss, as you said, that won't build out a sales funnel for people unless

00:20:00.200 it's like ethically done and it's not created to basically fuck over the person's audience.

00:20:05.780 Like that to me is like the best sort of melding of all the things that I think my brand espouses,

00:20:11.980 which again is living abroad, telling the truth, making money online, like doing stuff like that.

00:20:18.000 I think that's sort of the reason why I'm building out that community and

00:20:21.620 trying to marry that with, you know, living abroad.

00:20:25.400 In the digital nomad community, have you ever lived in one of those creator houses or are you in sort of

00:20:29.280 like a creator collective or is all of your information about the creative world mostly coming from your jobs?

00:20:36.100 From my jobs, but as a result of that job, I was around a lot of content creators and one of the

00:20:41.960 creators that was very much close within my network owned a, what would you call it, like a, like a hotel

00:20:48.720 basically for content creators.

00:20:50.620 So, you know, I, I surrounded myself with those people quite a lot and learned a lot from them as well and

00:20:56.520 ended up hiring a fair number of them.

00:20:58.960 It's funny how that happens.

00:20:59.980 You end up just hiring people like within your immediate network when you're getting started.

00:21:03.540 So it's, it's, it's been interesting to say the least on that front.

00:21:07.440 Do you see this way of life becoming more pervasive over time?

00:21:10.600 Because we often think about, well, what's the future of the economy and jobs going to be like?

00:21:15.260 It seems like right now, basically, if you are like a white collar knowledge worker that used to work for large

00:21:19.960 corporations, we'll try something new because no one's going to hire them anymore. 0.72

00:21:24.720 AI has basically made a lot of that obsolete.

00:21:27.360 If you are like, if you're working in HVAC or you're doing like physical in-person stuff, you're

00:21:32.240 going to be able to find a job, but a lot of people don't want to do that.

00:21:34.960 So then you have this sort of unmoored class of people who want to kind of be more creative

00:21:38.860 knowledge workers and maybe work remotely who cannot go to get a job.

00:21:43.440 So like, what do you, do you think more people are going to go into content creation and

00:21:48.080 independent businesses like this?

00:21:49.280 Do you think you see these communities growing?

00:21:50.800 And if so, where do you think they're going to be?

00:21:53.180 What do you think it's going to be like?

00:21:54.220 And how do you think people who are now planning out their careers or planning out the next

00:21:58.480 stage in their careers as they get laid off from a big tech company should be thinking?

00:22:04.280 Yeah, sure.

00:22:04.780 Well, I mean, I think there's going to be a lot of people entering the content creator

00:22:09.500 space over the next couple of years.

00:22:11.140 First of all, simply because, you know, Gen Z is finally graduating from high school and they're

00:22:15.680 going to be able to fulfill their teenage fantasy of not becoming a doctor, but becoming a content

00:22:19.760 creator.

00:22:20.320 So that's the first thing.

00:22:21.560 The second thing with stuff like Sora and ChatGPT, like the barrier to entry for content

00:22:27.040 creation is going to be lowered to a level that we've never seen before.

00:22:30.980 And as a result, a lot of people are going to take up AI generated content creation.

00:22:35.240 And again, in my mind, that's sort of why I think the main money that there is to be made

00:22:40.600 is not going to be as a content creator, but as someone selling the shovels during the gold rush,

00:22:46.320 just because so many people are going to like, and I speak about this from experience.

00:22:50.420 You know, I built out this audience originally.

00:22:52.500 I had a million and a half followers and I didn't know how to monetize it.

00:22:56.080 And that was coming from the background of regularly monetizing someone else's audience.

00:23:00.980 And it's just because I had a lot of like emotional plugs around money that I had to kind

00:23:05.480 of get over.

00:23:05.900 But there are a lot of things that, you know, I wasn't really skilled at doing and that I

00:23:09.980 needed a lot of support around.

00:23:11.460 And I paid a lot of money to the right people, luckily, to get that support.

00:23:15.980 And in my mind, that's where the main money is going to be made.

00:23:18.540 And for people who don't want to kind of do the traditional nine to five white collar work,

00:23:23.780 it's going to be a very, very viable alternative.

00:23:26.060 And I think it's going to be one that becomes more and more attractive as things can continue

00:23:30.280 to kind of disintegrate in our social lives in the West.

00:23:33.340 Yeah, I actually I want to pull on something you said there because it's true and it's

00:23:39.400 something I hadn't considered.

00:23:40.640 If people have looked at top, most prestigious careers or most interested careers by generational

00:23:46.580 cohort, you know, it used to be things like astronaut and stuff like that for the kids

00:23:51.380 who are coming out of school now for a while now, it's been content creator.

00:23:55.440 And this really changed like it's a totally different thing.

00:24:00.000 These young kids think of the content creator career pathway the same way my generation might

00:24:05.560 have thought of the VC career pathway or the previous generation, the astronaut career pathway.

00:24:10.400 And with the new tools like AI, I think AI fundamentally transforms what content creation is and the

00:24:18.940 amount of content you can output at a high quality.

00:24:21.840 I'm wondering, what are your thoughts around AI and how might you use it?

00:24:27.280 Like, for example, have you ever thought about training AI on your back collection to try to

00:24:32.840 generate new episodes and stuff like that?

00:24:35.040 Is that something you'd ever be interested in?

00:24:37.400 I already did.

00:24:38.280 I actually sunk about $4,000 into training an AI bot on all of my content and a lot of content

00:24:44.020 that I liked online.

00:24:45.280 Wow.

00:24:45.540 And ultimately in trying to get like concepts out of it, it was, it was half-baked AI isn't

00:24:51.700 quite there to, to, you know, be able to pose in, in Simone's words about my content, which

00:24:57.360 thank you.

00:24:57.820 I appreciate a thoughtful questions about kind of complex issues with, with current events.

00:25:03.640 So I, I tried it out.

00:25:05.300 I wasn't super satisfied with it.

00:25:06.680 Maybe I'll go back in the future.

00:25:07.860 But I think the way that I'm seeing AI being very, very useful in my own business setup

00:25:13.040 is actually in the realm of assisting my sales team.

00:25:16.820 You know, like there's a lot of people that reach out to me via DMs, for example, that,

00:25:21.160 you know, want to potentially work with me in some way or another.

00:25:24.420 And utilizing AI to kind of sort through the qualified leads versus the unqualified leads

00:25:29.720 is something that's going to take a lot of, give a lot of time back to my, to my sales

00:25:34.180 team so that they can focus in their efforts on stuff that has even higher ROI.

00:25:39.600 By the way, interesting bit of trivia for people who might not know this, but the original

00:25:43.540 concept for Basecamp, our show was that it was going to be a three person show.

00:25:47.260 And the third person was going to be an AI that developing one that could react in real

00:25:52.020 time and everything like that.

00:25:53.280 And so we're like, Oh, that'd be cool to have the gimmick, but we just didn't go ahead

00:25:57.380 with it.

00:25:57.860 But I was also wondering how you thought about platforms in terms of where you're distributing

00:26:02.880 your content.

00:26:03.560 So you talked about Instagram and stuff like that.

00:26:06.180 When you started, did you have one platform you were really aiming for or one vertical

00:26:10.140 you were really aiming for, or was it a cross platform and then go where things did well?

00:26:15.560 From the very beginning, I knew that I was going to create 14 pieces of content per week

00:26:19.000 and that I was just going to put them out on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube shorts and

00:26:22.080 just kind of see what happened.

00:26:23.420 And it was interesting because again, at the very beginning, TikTok was my first standout platform

00:26:28.020 and then it was Instagram.

00:26:29.240 And I think it took like five or six months for me to see any movement whatsoever.

00:26:33.460 On YouTube, I was stuck at 1300 followers on YouTube for about, again, five or six months

00:26:39.980 until one week.

00:26:41.360 I went from 1300 followers to over 300,000.

00:26:44.380 And then I kind of tapered off for about, I think probably six weeks or so.

00:26:49.400 And then it went from 300,000 to 1.1 million in about two weeks.

00:26:54.360 So that, that really, really kind of blew up.

00:26:57.680 And again, it just kind of started off with me not really being intentional about where

00:27:02.700 I was posting my content.

00:27:03.560 It was just me being like, okay, here's the content.

00:27:05.320 It's going out on all the platforms.

00:27:06.520 Let's see what happens.

00:27:07.280 And I think as time has gone on, I've realized that if I really wanted to, I could further

00:27:12.540 segment the type of content that I was, that I'm creating.

00:27:15.820 So that it's more native feeling for something like TikTok than it is for YouTube.

00:27:20.900 TikTok right now is actually my least exciting platform.

00:27:23.740 I'm at around 300,000 followers and I get an average view count of around probably like

00:27:28.180 four to 6,000 views per video, which is obviously very different than what's happening for me

00:27:32.680 on YouTube or Instagram.

00:27:34.380 And I think that would change if I made just selfie videos that were like 12 to 20 seconds

00:27:40.440 long.

00:27:40.760 But it's just, there's not really a way for me to do that in a, in a way that excites me.

00:27:44.720 So as a result, I just keep putting up the same content on TikTok, much to my chagrin.

00:27:49.440 Was it specific episodes that did really well?

00:27:51.880 Or was it like all of a sudden, all of your content just started picking up?

00:27:55.660 There were two videos that really, really blew up on YouTube, each of which has around 40 million

00:28:01.160 views.

00:28:01.620 The first was me making a comment about this kid who had taken a selfie in front of a guy

00:28:09.220 who was dead at Starbucks, who had just gotten stabbed.

00:28:12.800 And you see the dead guy on the ground, there's just blood everywhere. 0.99

00:28:15.200 And this guy's like, bro, this guy just fucking died, bro.

00:28:19.180 And the comment that I made is, you know, what, what people generally say when they see a video 0.98

00:28:24.080 like this is like, oh, social media has ruined the world.

00:28:26.120 But in my mind, social media more than anything is this perfected tool that basically mirrors

00:28:31.760 back to you what it is that you want to see.

00:28:33.920 And that's what it's incentivized to do in order to keep you on the app for as long as

00:28:37.160 you want.

00:28:37.600 So the fact that that kind of content blew up and that someone feels like they could build

00:28:42.420 a career around that because they knew people would eat it up is not a reflection of how

00:28:46.680 bad social media is.

00:28:47.800 It's a reflection of like the monster that you see in the mirror yourself.

00:28:51.600 So that was something that really, really blew up. 0.99

00:28:53.640 And then I think people were like, who the fuck is this guy in a mask? 0.98

00:28:56.920 So as a result, the other video that blew up was why I wear the mask. 0.98

00:29:00.880 And the nice thing about that, and this is something that a lot of beginning content

00:29:05.560 creators don't really realize is I was very happy that it took about five or six months

00:29:09.500 for my content to really go viral.

00:29:12.020 Because by that point, I had like two, like probably 100, 200 pieces of content online for

00:29:18.640 people to binge once they got exposed to my brand as opposed to going viral on the first

00:29:24.820 or second or 10th post, because then they wouldn't have anything to binge.

00:29:28.020 And when people binge your content for like 30 minutes, that shows the algorithm like,

00:29:32.420 hey, let's give this guy another 40 million views to get more eyeballs in front of him 0.94

00:29:37.640 because it's working for whatever is happening on the platform.

00:29:41.000 Yeah.

00:29:41.120 It's funny you say that.

00:29:42.080 We've definitely seen that as well.

00:29:43.400 While our followers can't see this, while our subscriber number grows pretty gradually,

00:29:48.200 our daily watch hour number grows massively.

00:29:53.060 Like we're probably at around a thousand daily watch hours now, which is probably nothing

00:29:56.520 compared to you.

00:29:57.560 But for us, it's, I think because that back catalog keeps growing.

00:30:01.260 So every new watcher who then binges is hugely adding to our daily watch hour.

00:30:06.380 That makes sense.

00:30:07.540 Because when you reached out to me, you know, I think the first thing I saw from you guys

00:30:11.500 was Chris Williamson's talk, but then I came and like actually found Basecamp and I watched

00:30:15.980 it and I was like, oh damn, these guys are actually kind of cool.

00:30:17.960 So then I watched like five or six episodes. 0.82

00:30:20.180 And I think that's what happens when you are putting out good content is if you really like 0.90

00:30:24.740 hit a home run the first time somebody sees a video from you, they're like, damn, I want 0.96

00:30:28.140 more. 0.93

00:30:28.600 And that's what you guys are obviously doing, which is great.

00:30:31.120 Yeah.

00:30:31.400 Well, I mean, the thing for us, it's really hard with this show.

00:30:34.080 And you might have thoughts on this is balancing the different topics that we talk about, because

00:30:38.480 you know, this, this is why I asked this question.

00:30:40.040 And it's something we think a lot about because we generally do sex, politics, and religion.

00:30:44.460 Like those are our four areas, maybe a spattering of AI stuff.

00:30:48.020 And these are really, we do it with a theming that would likely be cross interesting to our

00:30:53.540 audience, but we have to be very careful because some people who like us for like sex are really

00:30:59.140 not going to like the religion stuff.

00:31:00.760 Like they're just interested in sex research.

00:31:02.440 And so the idea is, is like, do we use different title cards for the different types of content?

00:31:07.980 Do we use, do we separate it to different channels?

00:31:11.000 Like, I'm wondering how you've thought about this type of like partitioning of audiences

00:31:14.660 before.

00:31:16.280 Yeah.

00:31:16.820 Well, I think basically what you guys are building out honestly seems more than anything

00:31:21.180 to be like a personal brand.

00:31:22.380 And I think the nice thing about personal brands is you really don't have to, you know,

00:31:26.200 shove yourself into one hole.

00:31:27.540 No pun intended, since we're talking about sex, but like, you don't have to like commit yourself 0.99

00:31:31.380 to one topic.

00:31:32.060 Like the thing that people find interesting is you guys.

00:31:35.260 And this is very much like what I felt when I came across your brand, which it wasn't,

00:31:40.460 it's, it's not so much.

00:31:41.360 I wasn't interested in the topics.

00:31:42.800 I obviously was, but here were these kind of two quirky looking like bubbly people talking

00:31:48.200 about, you know, what was the super spicy one that we talked about a few days ago.

00:31:52.580 Yeah.

00:31:52.920 Two quirky looking people talking about a victim blaming on a podcast and then switching

00:31:59.760 like so easily to something like, like AI or politics or something like that.

00:32:03.640 Like there was, there's a certain appeal to that, that you guys provide that is specifically

00:32:07.800 yours.

00:32:08.180 And I think that gives you a lot of flexibility to play around with different, different

00:32:12.240 topics and not have to worry too much about it.

00:32:14.040 If there's one thing, and I've just, I've thought about this for the last couple of weeks,

00:32:17.540 since I was introduced to your brand, if there's one thing that I think would actually

00:32:20.380 really, really help your growth, it's investing in like a thumbnail editor.

00:32:25.540 I think that's the one thing that would just like explode.

00:32:28.680 It's, it's amazing how much a thumbnail affects like click-through rate, which affects everything

00:32:32.540 else.

00:32:32.860 And I think just like the content is there.

00:32:35.760 Where's a good place to find one?

00:32:36.940 I'll follow up with you after this.

00:32:38.100 If you, if you have a good one, you'd recommend to us.

00:32:40.500 Yeah, I definitely do.

00:32:41.220 I actually just found one for myself and they're, they're sort of a media company type of thing,

00:32:46.060 but man, they're, they're good and they have very reasonable prices.

00:32:48.480 So we'll, we'll talk after.

00:32:49.400 I'm sweet.

00:32:50.200 Your answer to this question, and I'll, I'll wrap it up soon.

00:32:52.720 Cause I know we don't want to hold you forever.

00:32:54.260 It's late your time.

00:32:55.320 But one thing I really wanted to ask you, because I think that this would sort of show where

00:33:01.420 you're thinking of going with this.

00:33:02.700 So one of the things that we've been looking at doing, and we've been in talks with various

00:33:06.340 groups about this is taking what we're doing here to mainstream TV, to like Netflix or like,

00:33:13.640 you know, discovery channel or something like that.

00:33:16.320 And we're, when we do this, we're probably going to need to bring along some other content

00:33:20.440 creators in terms of how this is done.

00:33:22.640 Is that sort of career trajectory, something that would interest you, or are you really

00:33:27.040 interested in sort of the self-ownership you get with the traditional like YouTube, Instagram,

00:33:33.040 TikTok?

00:33:33.260 Yeah, that's a good question.

00:33:35.800 I think it is definitely something that I'm, that I'm interested in.

00:33:38.480 And I think a good example of this is when I first started building anti-profit, I think

00:33:42.240 I was at like 20,000, 30,000 followers on Instagram.

00:33:45.560 And I thought to myself, Ooh, like maybe I could try like networking, not with like Hollywood

00:33:50.140 stars, but like people within the orbit of Hollywood stars.

00:33:54.060 So there was this like Anya Taylor-Joy.

00:33:55.700 I don't know if you know her, her work as an actress, but her boyfriend is in a band

00:34:00.020 who actually produces some pretty catchy music.

00:34:02.460 And I, I was like, okay, well maybe I could like just sit down and record some violin tracks

00:34:06.960 to basically add to this. 0.99

00:34:08.000 And I actually made the track sound a lot better and I DM'd it to him and he, the bastard 0.99

00:34:11.400 never got back to me. 0.95

00:34:12.240 But I think the point that I'm making here is I, I think that alone is enough of a demonstration

00:34:16.860 that getting my foot into legacy media is something that I'm okay with.

00:34:20.380 And, you know, I think at this point, something that I'm also okay with is allowing a certain

00:34:24.480 percentage of whether that be profit or creative control being, you know, not, not so much

00:34:29.140 creative control.

00:34:29.860 I think more so profit going to other parties that facilitate certain opportunities for

00:34:34.500 me is totally great.

00:34:35.280 Cause again, I have a sales team and they work on commission.

00:34:37.740 So it's, it's something that I'm comfortable with and something that I've previously aspired 0.94

00:34:42.420 to, even though this bastard didn't get back to me. 0.88

00:34:45.900 That's awesome. 0.98

00:34:46.580 Can I ask, I'm really, really curious just because you, you do talk.

00:34:50.360 Talk about really interesting things, but also you have such an aggressive publication

00:34:55.060 schedule.

00:34:55.560 How, like, what, what is your day?

00:34:58.240 Like, are you spending, how many hours a day do you spend on like yourself, exercise,

00:35:03.440 food, like just having fun, whatever admin versus consuming content to get inspiration versus

00:35:10.340 actually producing content?

00:35:13.300 Sure.

00:35:13.820 Well, if I'm just focusing on only creating shorts, I think in total, I probably spend,

00:35:19.700 and this is including like giving my editor feedback on the edits after he gets a version

00:35:24.060 one or version two done.

00:35:25.000 It's probably a max total of like 20 minutes in terms of consuming content that, that just

00:35:29.200 kind of happens always in the background.

00:35:30.580 If I'm driving somewhere, if I'm just chilling at the house, if you know, I'm just hanging out

00:35:35.140 in my pool, like I'm, I'm consuming content.

00:35:37.140 And I think it's because I'm generally interested in it, but on top of that, I am kind of looking

00:35:41.420 for something to talk about all the time, but in terms of exercise, I work with my personal

00:35:46.140 trainer four times a week for about an hour and a half each time outside of that admin

00:35:50.540 work.

00:35:51.080 I think per week I'm probably doing if, if again, if I'm just doing shorts, it's probably

00:35:57.160 like four hours a week.

00:35:58.580 No, no more than that.

00:35:59.700 But now that I'm doing a long form and now that I'm building out this product, it's, it's

00:36:03.380 significantly more.

00:36:04.280 So I don't really know what it is, but it's, it's definitely keeping me busy.

00:36:07.520 Well, I love that part of your weekly routine is hanging out in a pool.

00:36:12.640 Um, that is not something I would even consider, but that is a life of leisure.

00:36:16.940 And this is why people should consider digital nomading.

00:36:19.820 It's, it's a great lifestyle if you can get the, the outside income to do it.

00:36:23.680 Well, it has been absolutely wonderful having you on.

00:36:26.280 And I would say actually to your last question, one thing that people might be surprised about

00:36:29.640 the biggest thing that's changed in my life since I've started producing these is I'm

00:36:34.000 just consuming dramatically less content because this has taken the time that I used to idly

00:36:38.320 watch YouTube and now I need to much more directly watch YouTube.

00:36:41.460 So I don't get like religious stuff wrong and stuff like that.

00:36:43.680 But anyway, it's been wonderful to have you on.

00:36:46.220 If there's anything you think we should have asked you or talked about that we didn't,

00:36:49.180 I'm happy to, to go in that direction or we can just sign off.

00:36:52.320 Well, and definitely let's end with like everywhere where people can find you and you know,

00:36:56.440 where they should be posted.

00:36:58.160 Sure.

00:36:58.720 Well, I mean, I'm kind of offended.

00:37:00.280 You didn't ask me where I get my hair done, so that's fine.

00:37:02.500 But yeah, no, if you want to find me, you can find me on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube

00:37:07.940 at anti.profit.

00:37:10.040 That's profit as in religious leader, not like capitalistic profit or TikTok or excuse me,

00:37:15.540 not TikTok, Twitter, anti underscore profit underscore.

00:37:18.740 I think I'm like barely on there, but I post pretty good memes over there every so often.

00:37:22.680 So that's a, that's a good place to find me.

00:37:25.020 Excellent.

00:37:26.100 Thank you so much.

00:37:27.060 And we're really looking forward to seeing everything you put out going forward.

00:37:29.880 Big fans and very excited.

00:37:31.480 And yeah, thanks for sharing some behind the scenes stuff with us.

00:37:33.960 This was fun.

00:37:35.600 Absolutely.

00:37:36.140 Thank you guys for having me.

Based Camp - March 19, 2024

Who is the Anti.Prophet？ From 0 to 2M followers in 1Y

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