Based Camp - Who's Killing More Babies, Us or Catholics

00:00:00.000 biblical quotes do do a fairly good job of arguing that abortion is murder, but they actually also

00:00:05.380 do a fairly good job at arguing that talking somebody out of IVF is also murder.

00:00:15.000 That kid. So the Jeremiah 1.5, it says, before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Right. Which

00:00:21.720 implies life begins before conception, just as we say. We also believe we can determine truth

00:00:29.500 through investigations of nature and reality. After a sperm fertilizes an egg, that can split,

00:00:36.380 and that's where identical twins come from. That would mean the human soul splits. But even more 0.68

00:00:40.980 damning than that, human chimeras can also form. This is when two fertilized eggs end up combining

00:00:48.880 together into a single human being. If you look historically, you look at people like Augustine

00:00:56.120 If Hippo said that the soul enters a developing fetus 40 days after it begins developing,

00:01:03.420 Thomas Aquinas had the same view. I didn't realize how recently the Catholic Church had made a switch

00:01:09.420 on this issue. I think a lot of Americans, I did know how recently regular Protestants had made a

00:01:13.960 switch on this issue. This was seen as like a weird Catholic thing. It's a weird Catholic thing that had

00:01:18.680 only been around for about a hundred years. When you look at studies that show that half of all men

00:01:24.620 could be infertile without IVF by 2060, this is really important when you're talking about the

00:01:30.440 future of the Catholic Church. Would you like to know more? Hello, Simone. I am so excited to be joining

00:01:38.720 you for today's very, very spicy topic. And it is one that we have avoided going into detail on

00:01:47.860 mostly because I was like, let's just like not engage with it. I don't want to create a fight

00:01:52.660 within the prenatalist community or anything like that. And the group that we would be arguing the

00:01:59.040 most against within this episode are Catholics. Who we love. Don't worry. We love. It's actually

00:02:06.920 difficult for me because of every religion I have never, there's, there's no other religion where I

00:02:13.120 have literally really liked every single person I have ever met from that cultural group, except 0.56

00:02:19.820 Catholics. Catholics. I've literally liked every Catholic I have ever met. And yeah. Have you met

00:02:24.940 an unpleasant Mormon? I'm sorry, but like, I doubt that this is possible. I have met unpleasant Mormons. 1.00

00:02:30.760 Oh, that's true. There are some more progressive Mormons, which are really sort of status-seeky in a way 0.97

00:02:36.400 that I find kind of annoying and cringe, but generally I like Mormons a lot too. I I'm giving

00:02:42.240 you that. Okay. Um, but I've just never personally, and I think it's because I've met less Catholics

00:02:48.320 than I met Mormons. And that's why maybe I have this perception. If you can count it, it's fewer. 0.90

00:02:54.240 And if you can't, then it's more or less. Of course, of course. Sorry. I got it. So, so I am starting

00:03:02.260 that episode, this episode with that, because the other thing I need to admit going into this

00:03:07.880 is I approach Catholicism with a lot of bias against it as a religious group, specifically

00:03:19.780 for, it's an aesthetic bias. It's a bit like if I went to someone and I liked all of these people,

00:03:27.000 but they all had like runes carved in their head and stuff. And like, if they looked like

00:03:34.960 heretics from Warhammer 40k, so you might be being like, come on, Catholics don't come off

00:03:39.640 that way. Unironically, the Catholic aesthetic and perspective is like somebody went in to 0.83

00:03:47.720 Indiana Jones in the last crusade. And they're just like, yes, grab the big golden mug. That's

00:03:54.960 the right one. Which one is it? You must choose. Choose wisely. For as the true grail will bring

00:04:03.920 you life, the false grail will take it from you. I'm not a historian. I have no idea what it looks

00:04:12.060 like. Which one is it? Let me choose. Oh, yes. It's more beautiful than I'd ever imagined. This certainly is

00:04:27.920 the cup of the king of kings. Eternal life. What is happening to me? He chose poorly. It would

00:04:52.020 not be made out of gold. That's the cup of a carpenter.

00:05:10.440 You have chosen why? Because my perception, like when I read the Bible is like,

00:05:15.920 Jesus is not about like a guy on a giant throne framed in like golden outlays telling people what's

00:05:24.020 true and what's not true. You know, I look at something like the Pope Stephen VI and the cadaver

00:05:30.960 syndrome. You know, he put a dead pope on trial and had him hung. And I'm like, come on, this is not

00:05:36.580 like this system for deciding who God is talking through does not seem like it's working to me.

00:05:41.620 It's not selecting very well. It's not selecting very well. Well, so then then people will be like,

00:05:47.180 yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But not all Catholic churches are like these big ostentatious displays

00:05:52.000 that make it look like somebody from the dark ages just went buck wild with a bedazzler. It's like,

00:05:57.180 yeah, you know, sometimes they do big displays of human corpses and bones. There's something I'd like

00:06:04.960 to show you. Something you might enjoy as one animal lover to another.

00:06:21.240 Something wrong, Mr. Ventura?

00:06:23.660 Of course not. This is a lovely room of death. Take care now. Bye-bye then.

00:06:30.800 It's like, you know, you're in this. Why human bones? Why the corpse cathedrals?

00:06:39.140 Have you looked at our caps recently?

00:06:43.460 Our caps?

00:06:44.700 The badges on our caps. Have you looked at them?

00:06:48.400 What? No. A bit?

00:06:50.680 They've got skulls on them.

00:06:55.760 Have you noticed that our caps have actually got little pictures of skulls on them?

00:07:02.140 I don't, uh...

00:07:03.500 Hands.

00:07:06.620 Are we the baddies?

00:07:10.520 We should be able to hold them at this point here, at least for a few hours.

00:07:14.060 I mean, why skulls, then?

00:07:17.760 Why skulls?

00:07:19.520 I mean, what does skulls make you think of?

00:07:22.800 Death.

00:07:24.100 Cannibals. 1.00

00:07:25.440 Beheading. 0.98

00:07:26.240 Um, 0.99

00:07:27.300 pirates.

00:07:28.320 Oh, you haven't been listening to ally propaganda.

00:07:30.520 Of course they're gonna say we're the bad guys.

00:07:32.560 But they didn't get to design our uniforms.

00:07:34.880 I need to say here,

00:07:36.880 it's actually kinda cool

00:07:38.460 in, like, a 40k, like, grimdark way.

00:07:41.880 Like,

00:07:42.040 grimdark way, sure.

00:07:43.840 It appeals to my young,

00:07:44.760 goth self,

00:07:45.980 and it appeals to my, like,

00:07:47.460 historian self.

00:07:48.800 But there's another part of me that is like,

00:07:52.440 yeah, but,

00:07:54.040 you know,

00:07:54.460 this person,

00:07:55.340 he's like,

00:07:56.220 you know,

00:07:56.800 it's like a person comes up to me,

00:07:57.920 but he looks like a 40k, like,

00:07:59.440 Warhammer cultist.

00:08:00.480 And he's like,

00:08:01.320 hi,

00:08:01.940 I'm Father Frank,

00:08:02.960 the bloodthirster,

00:08:04.080 and I have very pleasant things to say to you.

00:08:06.680 And I'm like,

00:08:07.640 yeah, but, you know,

00:08:08.400 all the ornateness,

00:08:09.280 because from our perspective,

00:08:11.200 right,

00:08:12.060 any wealth,

00:08:13.180 especially unearned wealth,

00:08:15.600 is a sign of sin.

00:08:18.240 Like,

00:08:18.560 indulging in unearned,

00:08:21.180 aesthetic pleasures within our reality

00:08:23.840 is a sign of sin.

00:08:26.280 And to indulge in that within a religious center

00:08:28.740 is like marking it as a house of sin.

00:08:32.420 I say all this because I think it's really important to note

00:08:35.300 when I am approaching a topic

00:08:37.300 with an extreme amount of personal bias,

00:08:40.340 which in this case,

00:08:41.420 I feel I am.

00:08:42.220 Let's get back to the topic at hand,

00:08:43.940 because this is really interesting to me.

00:08:45.660 So,

00:08:46.200 first,

00:08:47.820 it's important to understand

00:08:49.320 our perspective on when life begins

00:08:51.780 in relation to IVF,

00:08:54.760 and the Catholic perspective,

00:08:56.460 and the history of the Catholic perspective,

00:08:58.020 as well as the mainstream conservative perspective

00:09:00.820 in the U.S.

00:09:01.520 we as humans are responsible

00:09:04.400 every time I make a decision,

00:09:06.100 every time I make a choice

00:09:07.500 for everything that happens within the timeline

00:09:10.340 or reality that is created

00:09:12.280 because of that choice.

00:09:13.500 Mm-hmm.

00:09:13.960 So,

00:09:14.720 if I stop a sperm from fertilizing an egg

00:09:17.260 the moment before it fertilizes that egg,

00:09:19.340 or I squash the fertilized egg

00:09:21.060 the minute after that egg was fertilized,

00:09:23.320 to me,

00:09:23.700 those are two acts of exactly equal moral import.

00:09:27.600 Right.

00:09:28.040 Whereas to a Catholic, 0.94

00:09:29.240 one is killing a human life,

00:09:30.680 and the other is merely just generically immoral.

00:09:33.500 Whereas to me,

00:09:34.260 they do not seem particularly different.

00:09:36.200 But to me,

00:09:36.820 this also means that you are technically ending a human life

00:09:39.340 if a couple intended to have a child,

00:09:41.440 and you talk them out of having that child.

00:09:44.900 So,

00:09:45.460 anything that prevents a human child

00:09:48.240 from coming into existence,

00:09:49.940 because it is the actual human children

00:09:51.900 that have, like,

00:09:52.860 the moral weight to them,

00:09:54.260 right,

00:09:54.480 like these actual conscious entities,

00:09:56.340 you are responsible for ending that life.

00:09:59.560 So,

00:09:59.700 life starts as a spectrum of potentiality.

00:10:04.540 Yes.

00:10:05.420 And the more potentiality that has

00:10:06.860 to becoming an actual child,

00:10:08.300 the closer that is to an actual life.

00:10:11.440 That kid?

00:10:17.280 But why?

00:10:18.660 They are replacements of people 1.00

00:10:19.960 who had their existence consumed

00:10:21.520 by denizens of the Crimson World.

00:10:23.920 So,

00:10:24.580 first we need to get into

00:10:25.760 what Catholics actually think

00:10:28.000 and what conservatives actually think in the U.S.,

00:10:30.020 because a lot of people

00:10:30.920 are just not up to date

00:10:31.980 with their history on this subject.

00:10:33.460 Well,

00:10:33.960 yeah,

00:10:34.140 and it's not just so,

00:10:35.540 I think most people know

00:10:36.660 what Catholics and conservatives think,

00:10:38.200 which is life begins at conception,

00:10:39.700 and it's very,

00:10:40.960 very bad

00:10:41.600 to throw any...

00:10:43.100 I might be surprised at you here.

00:10:45.280 This is what they think today.

00:10:47.220 Yes.

00:10:47.700 So,

00:10:48.040 if you go to the 1970s

00:10:49.380 and you look at the National Conservative Conference,

00:10:51.460 where they did a poll on this,

00:10:53.140 more conservatives

00:10:53.980 were pro-abortion

00:10:55.720 than were anti-abortion.

00:10:57.380 This is because Catholics 1.00

00:10:59.520 used to be mostly a Democrat thing.

00:11:01.980 The Conservative Party

00:11:03.200 became anti-abortion

00:11:05.400 primarily to recruit Catholics

00:11:08.340 after a failed electoral cycle.

00:11:11.160 Oh, boy.

00:11:11.680 That was the purpose of it,

00:11:13.660 and they were really focused

00:11:14.720 on making this initiative

00:11:15.580 of the state's rights.

00:11:16.540 That's how they got their base on board with it,

00:11:18.560 even though their base

00:11:19.120 didn't really care about it.

00:11:20.640 Historically,

00:11:21.240 Protestants never really cared about this.

00:11:23.060 You know,

00:11:23.400 even Mormons,

00:11:24.120 you can look at what the Mormon teaching is,

00:11:25.540 they're totally pro-IVF, 0.91

00:11:26.980 so long as it's the husband's semen

00:11:29.000 and the wife's eggs 0.98

00:11:29.980 and you're not using another person.

00:11:31.780 So,

00:11:32.360 historically,

00:11:33.280 Protestants didn't really care about this.

00:11:35.280 Protestants started to care about this

00:11:36.960 and started to flex about this

00:11:38.540 because it began to become associated

00:11:40.340 with conservative identity

00:11:41.540 in the United States.

00:11:42.800 And people were like,

00:11:43.740 well, this is my team,

00:11:44.780 so this is what I believe.

00:11:46.200 But there wasn't like

00:11:46.880 a doctrinal reason for this.

00:11:48.480 And we'll get to the Bible 0.80

00:11:49.400 because this is also really interesting

00:11:51.340 if you look at quotes from the Bible.

00:11:52.840 But then you can be like,

00:11:53.460 yeah,

00:11:53.820 but Catholics have always been pro-this, 0.98

00:11:56.140 haven't they?

00:11:56.980 No,

00:11:58.240 they have not.

00:11:59.900 This is really interesting.

00:12:01.920 So,

00:12:02.280 if you look historically,

00:12:04.200 you look at people like

00:12:05.640 Augustine of Hippo,

00:12:07.180 a really important Catholic theologian

00:12:09.200 of the 4th and 5th century,

00:12:10.740 said that the soul

00:12:12.500 enters a developing fetus 0.95

00:12:14.460 40 days after it begins developing

00:12:17.820 if it's a male

00:12:19.060 and 80 to 90 days

00:12:21.020 after it begins developing

00:12:22.260 if it's a female. 0.99

00:12:23.020 Thomas Aquinas had the same view.

00:12:27.340 Now,

00:12:27.980 people would be like,

00:12:28.560 okay,

00:12:28.940 okay,

00:12:29.180 okay.

00:12:29.920 But what does the Bible say on this?

00:12:31.620 Like,

00:12:31.800 I have seen that the Bible says

00:12:33.320 abortion is wrong. 0.99

00:12:34.740 Right?

00:12:35.840 It does say that.

00:12:36.780 It absolutely does say

00:12:37.940 that abortion was wrong. 0.86

00:12:38.940 This perspective

00:12:40.040 that the Catholic Church took 0.64

00:12:42.080 with a completely logical

00:12:44.200 and morally aligned perspective

00:12:46.200 with the Bible

00:12:47.920 before IVF technology

00:12:50.440 was invented,

00:12:51.360 which is when they took it.

00:12:52.760 So,

00:12:52.940 when did the Catholic Church

00:12:53.880 take this perspective?

00:12:55.440 In 1869

00:12:57.020 with Pope Pius IX

00:12:59.640 when he said

00:13:01.100 delayed animation

00:13:02.060 was wrong

00:13:03.120 and affirmed

00:13:04.320 immediate insolment

00:13:05.360 at conception

00:13:06.080 and this has been

00:13:07.140 the Church's baseline teaching

00:13:08.500 ever since.

00:13:09.380 But this is not like

00:13:10.320 obviously what all

00:13:11.860 great Catholic thinkers

00:13:12.860 ever thought.

00:13:13.560 In fact,

00:13:14.000 the greatest of Catholic thinkers

00:13:15.300 thought otherwise

00:13:16.540 from this perception.

00:13:17.900 Yeah,

00:13:18.040 I guess I've not really heard

00:13:19.140 of anything else

00:13:19.840 that Pope Pius IX

00:13:21.060 has done,

00:13:21.700 to be fair.

00:13:22.400 In case you were wondering

00:13:23.300 what he did do,

00:13:24.060 he was the longest serving

00:13:25.260 pope in history

00:13:26.020 and he oversaw

00:13:27.460 the First Vatican Council

00:13:28.580 where he affirmed

00:13:29.900 his own papal infallibility.

00:13:32.840 And he is more

00:13:33.980 controversially known

00:13:35.180 for being the pope

00:13:36.860 who issued

00:13:37.820 the syllabus of errors.

00:13:39.400 This was a document

00:13:40.320 that argued

00:13:41.080 that things like

00:13:42.420 the following three statements

00:13:43.740 were errors

00:13:44.560 for Catholics to hold.

00:13:46.200 Every man is free

00:13:47.120 to embrace and profess

00:13:48.220 that religion

00:13:48.900 which guided by the light

00:13:49.920 of reason

00:13:50.320 he shall consider true.

00:13:51.580 In the present day

00:13:52.400 it is no longer expedient

00:13:53.780 that the Catholic religion

00:13:54.860 should be held

00:13:56.160 as the only religion 0.99

00:13:57.380 of the state

00:13:57.940 to the exclusion

00:13:58.920 of all other forms

00:13:59.880 of worship.

00:14:00.920 It has been wisely decided

00:14:02.760 by law

00:14:03.380 in some Catholic countries

00:14:04.720 that persons coming

00:14:06.140 to reside therein

00:14:07.360 shall enjoy

00:14:08.060 the public exercise

00:14:09.000 of their own peculiar worship.

00:14:10.720 basically it lays out

00:14:13.100 that Catholic countries

00:14:14.980 should not allow

00:14:16.000 non-Catholic worship

00:14:17.400 within them

00:14:18.200 and lays out

00:14:19.760 sort of the idea

00:14:20.720 of the modern

00:14:21.500 Catholic caliphate. 0.68

00:14:22.980 So of course

00:14:23.480 this is somebody

00:14:23.980 who we are going to

00:14:25.180 have some

00:14:26.380 moral differences with

00:14:28.380 when you look at

00:14:30.200 the world

00:14:30.880 from our perspective.

00:14:31.960 Yes, which is important

00:14:33.960 when we're talking

00:14:34.600 about like our problems

00:14:36.200 with how popes

00:14:37.220 are chosen

00:14:37.760 and the intellectual

00:14:38.500 thing of popes

00:14:39.080 but anyway

00:14:39.600 let's get back

00:14:40.540 He's not like famous

00:14:41.540 for you know

00:14:42.240 his various liaisons

00:14:44.040 female liaisons 0.92

00:14:45.320 etc.

00:14:46.520 No, let's

00:14:46.960 oh did he have

00:14:48.600 a problem with females? 1.00

00:14:49.600 No, I'm just saying

00:14:50.420 like other popes

00:14:51.420 were worse than him

00:14:52.880 for sure

00:14:53.440 in terms of like

00:14:54.160 actually being

00:14:54.920 fairly

00:14:55.480 you know

00:14:56.940 good

00:14:57.680 practicing religion.

00:14:59.840 So

00:14:59.960 so now

00:15:01.040 we're going to talk

00:15:01.620 about actual

00:15:02.320 biblical quotes

00:15:03.200 and and again

00:15:04.400 these actual

00:15:05.000 biblical quotes

00:15:05.580 do do a fairly

00:15:06.400 good job of

00:15:07.000 arguing that

00:15:07.500 abortion is murder 0.70

00:15:08.800 but they

00:15:09.820 actually also

00:15:10.800 do a fairly

00:15:11.220 good job

00:15:11.740 at arguing

00:15:12.560 that talking

00:15:13.000 somebody out of

00:15:13.500 IVF is also

00:15:14.460 murder.

00:15:15.140 So let's

00:15:16.320 talk about them.

00:15:17.580 Well Malcolm

00:15:18.420 your attempt

00:15:19.160 to use Bible

00:15:20.080 quotes to argue

00:15:21.040 with a Catholic

00:15:22.160 on the issue

00:15:23.240 of when life

00:15:23.740 begins is kind

00:15:24.540 of like

00:15:24.940 a civil law

00:15:26.700 lawyer

00:15:27.120 arguing about

00:15:28.160 law with

00:15:29.040 a common law

00:15:29.720 lawyer.

00:15:30.040 So to understand

00:15:31.800 what she's

00:15:32.200 saying here

00:15:32.680 civil law

00:15:33.280 and common

00:15:33.680 law are two

00:15:34.180 of the most

00:15:34.540 common law

00:15:35.020 systems used

00:15:35.600 in the world

00:15:35.940 today.

00:15:36.880 Civil law

00:15:37.500 says that

00:15:37.940 law is what

00:15:38.660 is in the

00:15:39.240 text

00:15:39.660 whereas common

00:15:40.840 law says

00:15:41.920 that law

00:15:42.620 is based

00:15:43.160 on previous

00:15:43.720 court decisions.

00:15:45.160 We in the

00:15:45.560 U.S.

00:15:45.920 actually have

00:15:46.400 a combination

00:15:46.840 of both

00:15:47.780 legal systems

00:15:48.400 but typically

00:15:49.040 you're using

00:15:49.560 one or the

00:15:49.860 other.

00:15:50.440 So let's

00:15:50.940 go through

00:15:51.340 some of

00:15:51.740 these quotes.

00:15:52.920 Okay

00:15:53.060 Jeremiah

00:15:53.540 1-5

00:15:54.620 quote

00:15:55.420 before

00:15:57.020 before

00:15:58.060 underline

00:15:59.380 here

00:15:59.800 I formed

00:16:00.840 you in

00:16:01.220 the womb

00:16:01.740 I knew

00:16:02.460 you

00:16:02.920 and before

00:16:04.100 you were

00:16:05.420 born I

00:16:06.020 consecrated

00:16:06.620 you

00:16:07.000 I appointed

00:16:07.920 you a 0.57

00:16:08.480 prophet

00:16:08.860 to nations

00:16:10.320 okay

00:16:11.400 now Paul

00:16:12.600 in Galatians

00:16:13.240 1-15

00:16:13.800 says that

00:16:15.000 God

00:16:15.360 quote

00:16:15.760 had set

00:16:16.540 him apart

00:16:17.460 before

00:16:18.580 he was

00:16:20.080 born

00:16:20.500 okay

00:16:21.160 so

00:16:21.520 repeatedly

00:16:22.020 in the

00:16:22.400 Bible

00:16:22.620 what you're

00:16:23.000 going to

00:16:23.500 say

00:16:23.920 and

00:16:24.580 this

00:16:25.180 is

00:16:25.360 what's

00:16:25.600 really

00:16:25.820 interesting

00:16:26.140 so the

00:16:26.500 Jeremiah

00:16:26.820 1-5

00:16:27.280 is like

00:16:27.560 really

00:16:27.860 the most

00:16:28.260 damning

00:16:28.540 because it 0.97

00:16:28.880 says

00:16:29.020 before

00:16:29.760 I formed

00:16:30.420 you

00:16:30.620 in the

00:16:31.160 womb

00:16:31.480 I knew

00:16:31.900 you

00:16:32.180 which implies

00:16:33.400 life

00:16:34.360 begins

00:16:35.160 before

00:16:35.960 conception

00:16:36.540 just as

00:16:37.600 we say

00:16:38.040 now if

00:16:38.520 you look

00:16:38.980 at other

00:16:39.260 quotes

00:16:39.480 I'm

00:16:39.640 just

00:16:39.760 going

00:16:39.840 to

00:16:39.880 go

00:16:39.980 through

00:16:40.140 like

00:16:40.360 all

00:16:40.680 of

00:16:40.800 the

00:16:40.900 quotes

00:16:41.100 used

00:16:41.280 to

00:16:41.380 argue

00:16:41.600 that

00:16:41.860 life

00:16:42.700 begins

00:16:43.000 at

00:16:43.100 conception

00:16:43.420 but

00:16:43.620 are

00:16:43.720 really

00:16:43.900 more

00:16:44.100 just

00:16:44.280 arguments

00:16:44.560 against

00:16:44.780 abortion

00:16:45.140 right

00:16:45.460 sorry

00:16:46.500 Isaiah

00:16:47.380 44-24

00:16:48.240 talks about

00:16:49.400 God as

00:16:49.960 your

00:16:50.140 redeemer

00:16:50.460 who formed

00:16:50.880 you in

00:16:51.200 the womb

00:16:51.620 except

00:16:52.380 again we

00:16:53.060 know from

00:16:53.680 Jeremiah

00:16:54.040 1-5

00:16:54.860 that God

00:16:55.640 knew us

00:16:55.900 before he

00:16:56.420 formed us

00:16:56.860 in the

00:16:57.060 womb

00:16:57.280 so you're

00:16:58.020 not

00:16:58.280 arguing

00:16:58.820 anything

00:16:59.160 by saying

00:16:59.480 your

00:16:59.720 redeemer

00:17:00.120 who formed

00:17:00.600 you in

00:17:00.820 the womb

00:17:01.100 or you

00:17:01.780 could say

00:17:02.120 in

00:17:02.320 plasm

00:17:02.680 139

00:17:03.500 for

00:17:04.240 you

00:17:04.780 formed

00:17:05.380 my

00:17:05.680 inward

00:17:06.220 parts

00:17:06.800 you

00:17:07.180 knitted

00:17:07.540 me

00:17:07.780 together

00:17:08.140 in

00:17:08.380 my

00:17:08.520 mother's

00:17:08.980 womb

00:17:09.240 you

00:17:09.820 saw

00:17:10.360 my

00:17:10.700 unformed

00:17:11.260 substance

00:17:11.800 in

00:17:12.220 your

00:17:12.420 book

00:17:12.760 were written

00:17:13.400 every one

00:17:14.560 the days

00:17:15.340 that were

00:17:15.600 formed

00:17:15.980 for me

00:17:16.600 when as

00:17:17.580 of yet

00:17:18.060 there was

00:17:18.580 none of

00:17:19.020 them

00:17:19.220 so he

00:17:21.300 was in

00:17:22.080 God's

00:17:22.960 book

00:17:23.480 before

00:17:24.420 he was

00:17:25.560 conceived

00:17:26.240 okay next

00:17:27.640 Genesis

00:17:29.500 2-24

00:17:30.780 therefore man

00:17:32.180 shall leave

00:17:32.700 his father

00:17:33.140 and mother

00:17:33.540 and be

00:17:33.920 joined

00:17:34.320 to his

00:17:35.700 wife

00:17:36.120 and they

00:17:37.460 shall become

00:17:38.080 one flesh

00:17:38.800 exactly what

00:17:39.720 we would

00:17:40.220 say given

00:17:41.160 the system

00:17:41.860 where life

00:17:42.880 begins before

00:17:43.800 conception

00:17:44.300 so this

00:17:45.540 is really

00:17:45.900 interesting

00:17:46.280 this seems

00:17:47.000 to be

00:17:47.340 backed up

00:17:48.000 by the

00:17:48.620 bible

00:17:49.120 okay

00:17:49.600 but being

00:17:51.160 protestants

00:17:51.600 the catholics

00:17:52.080 don't do

00:17:52.780 this as much

00:17:53.280 as protestants

00:17:53.820 do but

00:17:54.200 being

00:17:54.460 protestants

00:17:54.900 we also

00:17:55.400 believe that

00:17:56.000 God

00:17:56.240 inscribes

00:17:56.980 truth

00:17:57.740 in

00:17:58.600 nature

00:17:59.800 and in

00:18:00.660 reality

00:18:01.360 and we

00:18:02.100 can determine

00:18:02.820 truth through

00:18:03.700 investigations of

00:18:05.040 nature and

00:18:05.640 reality

00:18:06.080 okay

00:18:07.040 so this

00:18:08.500 is

00:18:08.620 what I mean

00:18:09.720 by this

00:18:10.100 is God's

00:18:10.740 not like 1.00

00:18:11.300 stupid 0.99

00:18:11.640 right 1.00

00:18:11.860 like again

00:18:12.560 we are not

00:18:13.080 like traditional

00:18:13.840 Christians

00:18:14.260 but we

00:18:14.720 believe

00:18:15.200 that God's

00:18:16.180 intention

00:18:16.600 was carved

00:18:17.760 into the

00:18:18.400 bible

00:18:18.760 for us

00:18:19.620 to study

00:18:20.020 and learn

00:18:20.460 from

00:18:20.800 if he

00:18:21.760 very

00:18:22.620 intentionally

00:18:23.260 has the

00:18:23.780 bible

00:18:24.020 multiple

00:18:24.680 times

00:18:25.520 say life

00:18:26.380 begins

00:18:26.780 before

00:18:27.160 conception

00:18:27.680 and never

00:18:28.780 once

00:18:29.560 has it

00:18:30.200 say life

00:18:30.680 begins

00:18:31.060 at conception

00:18:31.840 then my

00:18:33.000 read is

00:18:33.740 that would

00:18:34.080 have been

00:18:34.260 a very

00:18:34.840 easy

00:18:35.340 thing

00:18:35.760 for God

00:18:36.220 to put

00:18:36.540 in the

00:18:36.960 bible

00:18:37.260 if he

00:18:37.820 thought

00:18:38.220 if that's

00:18:38.700 what he

00:18:38.940 intended

00:18:39.220 to say

00:18:39.600 it would

00:18:40.400 have been

00:18:40.600 a very

00:18:41.080 easy

00:18:41.560 thing

00:18:41.940 for multiple

00:18:42.740 iterations

00:18:43.320 of the

00:18:43.680 Christian

00:18:43.960 tradition

00:18:44.380 to pick

00:18:44.820 up

00:18:45.100 and yet

00:18:45.920 really

00:18:46.700 only

00:18:47.100 Catholics

00:18:47.520 picked

00:18:47.820 this up

00:18:48.200 for a

00:18:48.480 long

00:18:48.660 time

00:18:48.980 and it

00:18:50.000 would

00:18:50.100 have been

00:18:50.260 a very

00:18:50.520 easy

00:18:50.700 thing

00:18:50.860 for early

00:18:51.380 Catholic

00:18:51.720 theologians

00:18:52.260 to pick

00:18:52.560 up

00:18:52.780 and yet

00:18:53.480 they

00:18:53.660 didn't

00:18:53.980 pick

00:18:54.200 it up

00:18:54.600 so it

00:18:55.340 seems

00:18:55.740 pretty

00:18:56.040 clear

00:18:56.400 to me

00:18:56.820 that God

00:18:57.300 did not

00:18:57.700 intend

00:18:58.160 that

00:18:58.360 he was

00:18:58.700 trying

00:18:58.960 to tell

00:18:59.440 us

00:18:59.740 and again

00:19:00.420 I believe

00:19:00.840 that God

00:19:01.860 reveals himself

00:19:02.600 over time

00:19:03.440 through science

00:19:04.180 and through

00:19:04.600 understanding

00:19:08.700 now let's

00:19:09.380 talk about

00:19:09.780 this

00:19:10.160 so Catholics 0.99

00:19:12.280 will say

00:19:12.620 yeah yeah

00:19:13.040 but let's

00:19:13.780 play it

00:19:14.080 safe

00:19:14.300 you know

00:19:14.520 the first

00:19:15.040 time

00:19:15.580 a biologically

00:19:16.960 and genetically

00:19:17.760 distinct

00:19:18.360 human being

00:19:19.060 exists

00:19:19.480 is when a

00:19:20.140 sperm

00:19:20.420 fertilizes

00:19:21.020 an egg

00:19:21.640 and therefore

00:19:22.780 we should

00:19:24.300 say

00:19:24.780 that that

00:19:25.480 is when

00:19:26.160 ensolification

00:19:27.200 happens

00:19:27.820 so you know

00:19:28.820 when you talk

00:19:29.240 about these

00:19:29.460 other people

00:19:29.780 they basically

00:19:30.100 say the soul

00:19:30.580 enters the

00:19:31.280 fertilized egg

00:19:32.060 later

00:19:32.380 except

00:19:33.620 God could

00:19:34.800 have made

00:19:35.160 us that

00:19:35.640 way

00:19:35.880 some species

00:19:37.360 work that

00:19:37.960 way

00:19:38.220 humans

00:19:39.300 don't work

00:19:40.120 that way

00:19:40.540 because after

00:19:41.680 a sperm

00:19:42.620 fertilizes

00:19:43.180 an egg

00:19:43.660 that can

00:19:44.700 split

00:19:45.180 and that's

00:19:46.060 where identical

00:19:46.520 twins come

00:19:47.340 from

00:19:47.640 if we go

00:19:49.200 with the

00:19:49.620 other

00:19:49.860 interpretation

00:19:50.440 that would

00:19:50.740 mean the

00:19:50.960 human soul

00:19:51.440 splits

00:19:51.840 but even

00:19:52.740 more damning

00:19:53.500 than that

00:19:54.180 human chimeras 0.73

00:19:55.500 can also

00:19:56.140 form

00:19:56.480 this is

00:19:57.300 when

00:19:57.600 two

00:19:58.400 fertilized

00:19:59.460 eggs

00:19:59.900 end up

00:20:00.480 combining

00:20:01.020 together

00:20:01.580 into a

00:20:02.500 single human

00:20:03.280 being

00:20:03.780 with the

00:20:04.580 DNA

00:20:05.020 of two

00:20:06.100 people

00:20:06.580 some famous

00:20:07.440 cases around

00:20:08.060 this was

00:20:08.420 like one

00:20:08.840 woman had 1.00

00:20:09.240 her children

00:20:09.680 taken from

00:20:10.280 her or

00:20:10.620 something

00:20:10.860 because they

00:20:11.660 genetically

00:20:12.240 weren't her

00:20:12.840 children and

00:20:13.460 nobody could

00:20:13.880 find out why

00:20:14.520 and she's

00:20:14.860 like no I

00:20:15.260 swear I

00:20:15.860 had these

00:20:16.320 kids they're

00:20:16.740 genetically

00:20:17.080 mine and

00:20:17.760 it turned

00:20:18.080 out she

00:20:18.400 was a

00:20:18.640 chimera between

00:20:19.280 her and

00:20:19.860 her technical

00:20:20.520 sister where

00:20:21.400 her reproductive

00:20:22.060 organs were

00:20:22.680 actually biologically

00:20:24.260 her sister's

00:20:25.080 reproductive

00:20:25.460 organs who

00:20:26.480 they had

00:20:26.900 merged together

00:20:27.620 in the womb

00:20:28.120 now why did

00:20:30.200 God allow this

00:20:30.900 to happen in

00:20:31.460 humans when this

00:20:32.000 doesn't necessarily

00:20:32.640 happen in all

00:20:33.420 biological life

00:20:34.100 forms because

00:20:34.760 he was

00:20:35.240 trying to

00:20:36.440 tell us

00:20:37.160 something and

00:20:38.700 the implications

00:20:39.700 of getting this

00:20:40.720 something he's

00:20:41.460 trying to tell

00:20:42.260 us are very

00:20:43.780 important and

00:20:45.560 of increasing

00:20:46.460 importance right

00:20:48.320 because it means

00:20:49.400 that so so let's

00:20:50.500 talk about why

00:20:51.220 they're very

00:20:51.680 important for

00:20:52.540 Catholics

00:20:53.000 specifically so

00:20:54.100 when we talk

00:20:54.600 about things like

00:20:55.320 falling fertility

00:20:56.080 rates okay that's

00:20:57.560 one thing but

00:20:58.440 when you look at

00:20:59.120 studies that show

00:20:59.760 that half of all

00:21:00.840 men could be

00:21:01.540 infertile without

00:21:02.440 IVF by 2060

00:21:03.940 this is really

00:21:05.300 important when

00:21:05.940 you're talking

00:21:06.340 about the future

00:21:07.280 of the Catholic

00:21:07.980 Church okay when 0.95

00:21:10.360 you look at

00:21:10.900 something like

00:21:11.540 Catholic majority

00:21:12.360 countries in

00:21:13.000 Europe having a

00:21:13.840 fertility rate of

00:21:14.800 can you guess

00:21:15.360 what it is Simone

00:21:16.000 1.9 1.3 no

00:21:21.920 oh my gosh

00:21:23.320 it's really low

00:21:25.100 wow so so

00:21:27.620 like right now

00:21:28.900 Catholics are 0.98

00:21:29.560 headed towards 0.96

00:21:30.060 extinction now

00:21:31.140 we may see

00:21:31.760 conservative

00:21:32.280 Catholic traditions

00:21:33.700 outpace progressive

00:21:35.000 Catholic traditions

00:21:35.740 but here's the

00:21:36.900 interesting and

00:21:37.540 great thing about

00:21:38.180 Catholicism when 0.90

00:21:39.900 we argue and

00:21:41.120 we say all this

00:21:42.100 and this is

00:21:42.980 probably going to

00:21:43.380 be what I'm

00:21:43.660 titling the episode

00:21:44.260 I think Catholics

00:21:44.940 are going to

00:21:45.260 change their mind

00:21:45.740 about this because

00:21:46.600 the Catholic Church 0.99

00:21:47.340 isn't stupid it 0.99

00:21:48.400 took these positions 1.00

00:21:49.700 because they were

00:21:50.900 the morally correct

00:21:52.080 positions when they

00:21:53.100 were taken before

00:21:54.420 IVF existed when

00:21:56.520 they were fighting

00:21:57.100 against abortion

00:21:57.980 yes they were

00:21:59.260 fighting for a

00:22:00.260 moral position

00:22:01.140 that was

00:22:01.980 absolutely correct

00:22:03.040 the lady couldn't 1.00

00:22:04.040 understand any

00:22:04.940 other position and

00:22:05.880 so of course they

00:22:06.620 were going to take

00:22:07.080 this position but

00:22:08.240 now that IVF does

00:22:09.700 exist and they are

00:22:10.680 preventing human

00:22:11.720 beings from coming

00:22:12.700 into this world

00:22:13.920 it's a very very

00:22:16.540 different argument

00:22:17.600 with very different

00:22:18.780 implications and

00:22:20.780 it's something that

00:22:21.660 their early thinkers

00:22:22.660 didn't believe it's

00:22:23.980 something that the

00:22:24.720 Bible doesn't support 1.00

00:22:25.980 so yeah they'll

00:22:27.860 change their minds

00:22:28.580 on this you know

00:22:29.660 it's the way that

00:22:30.580 they'll survive and 0.99

00:22:31.580 they're not stupid 1.00

00:22:32.320 and Catholics are 0.97

00:22:33.180 good intelligent

00:22:33.940 people they make

00:22:34.500 up as I pointed

00:22:35.540 out other than

00:22:36.560 conservative Jews I

00:22:38.200 point out multiple

00:22:39.280 times if you talk

00:22:40.060 about the conservative

00:22:40.580 intellectual class the

00:22:41.560 vast majority is

00:22:42.420 Catholics or Jewish 0.85

00:22:43.500 in ancestry which

00:22:45.360 which to me you

00:22:46.500 know it adds a lot

00:22:47.320 to the conservative

00:22:47.820 movement to happen

00:22:48.380 but here's where

00:22:50.440 this gets more

00:22:51.020 interesting so Simone

00:22:52.320 and I before we did

00:22:53.140 an episode on this

00:22:53.840 we're like there's

00:22:54.480 gotta be something

00:22:55.360 we're missing right

00:22:56.660 right and there

00:22:58.020 was this one of my

00:22:59.220 former classmates in

00:23:01.300 school actually then

00:23:02.940 went on to become an

00:23:04.540 ordained Catholic

00:23:05.420 priest so like this

00:23:06.480 is extremely helpful

00:23:07.300 we're like okay we

00:23:08.080 have someone on the

00:23:08.800 inside let us email

00:23:10.360 him and hopefully

00:23:11.820 he'll get back to us

00:23:12.660 and he did and he

00:23:13.860 was very generous to

00:23:15.040 take time to speak

00:23:15.800 with us and give us

00:23:17.180 both what he called

00:23:18.480 sort of the simple

00:23:19.100 answer and the more

00:23:21.280 complicated hard answer

00:23:22.480 both of which were

00:23:23.200 incredibly helpful with

00:23:24.840 you know the

00:23:25.340 the simple answer

00:23:26.380 basically being you

00:23:27.880 know if you have a

00:23:28.600 doubt about when

00:23:29.660 human life begins you

00:23:30.720 should err on the

00:23:31.560 side of the earliest

00:23:32.360 possible moment

00:23:33.900 but that doesn't

00:23:35.140 work with our

00:23:35.780 argument yeah because

00:23:37.040 we're we're erring on

00:23:37.900 the side of the

00:23:38.320 earliest possible

00:23:39.040 moment we believe it

00:23:39.900 begins before

00:23:40.780 conception but

00:23:41.800 continue but in

00:23:44.280 that way I guess and

00:23:45.000 this is going to

00:23:45.600 become ironic very

00:23:46.440 soon he's talking

00:23:47.600 about the earliest

00:23:48.280 possible moment in a

00:23:49.320 material sense when

00:23:50.540 you have a material

00:23:51.880 fertilized embryo the

00:23:53.620 deeper metaphysical

00:23:54.580 answer appears to

00:23:56.840 be related to a

00:23:58.540 split in materialistic

00:24:00.940 thinking that took

00:24:01.780 place around the time

00:24:03.000 of Rene Descartes so

00:24:04.680 the my my former

00:24:06.800 classmate and our

00:24:07.460 friend briefed us on

00:24:09.080 Aristotle's four

00:24:10.440 causes which I

00:24:12.100 wasn't familiar with

00:24:13.140 and Malcolm wasn't

00:24:13.780 either but there are

00:24:16.540 according to

00:24:17.640 Aristotle four causes

00:24:18.840 to a thing there is

00:24:19.980 the material cause that

00:24:21.460 from which as a

00:24:22.980 constituent present in

00:24:24.220 it a thing comes to

00:24:25.500 be so bronze or

00:24:27.200 silver are causes of 1.00

00:24:29.060 the statue and the

00:24:30.280 bowl then there's the

00:24:31.760 formal cause the

00:24:33.420 form i.e. the

00:24:34.840 pattern the form is

00:24:36.480 the account of the

00:24:37.400 essence and the parts

00:24:38.740 of the account then

00:24:40.120 there's the efficient

00:24:40.920 cause this is the

00:24:41.920 source of the primary

00:24:42.960 principle of change

00:24:44.800 or stability so the

00:24:46.600 man who gives advice

00:24:47.580 the father of the

00:24:48.520 child the producer is

00:24:50.420 the cause of the

00:24:51.420 product and the

00:24:52.500 initiator of the

00:24:53.400 cause is a cause of

00:24:55.160 what changed so like

00:24:56.160 the cause is sort of

00:24:56.840 why why it happened I

00:24:57.900 guess the efficient

00:24:58.380 cause and then

00:24:59.180 there's the final

00:24:59.760 cause which is

00:25:01.160 something's end what

00:25:03.040 it is for in its

00:25:04.880 cause as you know

00:25:06.660 health is the cause of

00:25:07.760 walking according to

00:25:09.060 some people so the

00:25:10.840 first two causes are

00:25:12.320 pretty sort of like

00:25:13.160 literal and

00:25:14.020 materialistic but our

00:25:16.200 friend argued that the

00:25:17.060 second two causes are

00:25:18.500 sort of what got thrown

00:25:19.580 out with the bath

00:25:20.760 water after Descartes

00:25:22.960 very much changed

00:25:24.000 philosophy around a

00:25:25.860 sort of mathematically

00:25:26.560 based metaphysical

00:25:27.960 understanding of

00:25:28.560 reality that we cannot

00:25:29.660 trust anything that we

00:25:31.040 cannot prove

00:25:31.820 mathematically that we

00:25:32.980 cannot see that we

00:25:33.980 cannot touch and with

00:25:37.160 that change in

00:25:37.920 philosophy a lot of

00:25:39.360 really important

00:25:40.240 metaphysical stuff was

00:25:42.120 lost and so

00:25:44.500 so essentially

00:25:45.840 the he's arguing

00:25:49.860 the efficient cause

00:25:51.020 and the final cause

00:25:52.100 were lost in that

00:25:53.160 and that's sort of

00:25:53.860 where like the soul

00:25:55.080 of a person comes in

00:25:56.360 their essence their

00:25:57.740 humanness which

00:25:59.220 doesn't have like

00:26:00.260 measurable human

00:26:01.380 elements was lost so

00:26:03.240 people you know

00:26:04.160 trying to to throw

00:26:06.700 the argument of the

00:26:08.600 Catholic Church of

00:26:09.260 when life begins into

00:26:10.180 these materialistic

00:26:11.080 terms is kind of losing

00:26:12.740 the point in the first

00:26:13.580 place according to this

00:26:14.540 argument because it is

00:26:16.920 not actually about

00:26:17.700 materially what's

00:26:18.660 happening and when

00:26:19.440 this is about the

00:26:20.120 human soul this is

00:26:21.040 about when something

00:26:21.580 becomes human and

00:26:23.060 going back to the

00:26:23.700 original argument

00:26:24.580 which is what it

00:26:25.200 looks like when you're

00:26:25.820 looking at the

00:26:26.260 original works on this

00:26:27.020 continue right and

00:26:28.340 when it comes back to

00:26:29.080 that original much

00:26:29.740 simpler argument if

00:26:31.080 we're not sure and we

00:26:32.140 can't be sure because

00:26:32.980 this is all stuff that

00:26:34.080 is not you know

00:26:34.740 material this is all

00:26:35.660 very complicated we

00:26:37.040 should have the

00:26:37.820 biggest preponderance

00:26:39.000 of caution possible

00:26:40.560 yes which again would

00:26:42.660 have us say

00:26:43.480 yeah so you're 1.00

00:26:44.480 killing kids and 0.99

00:26:45.600 you're killing lots 1.00

00:26:46.320 of kids given the

00:26:47.920 increasing fertility

00:26:49.380 decline and as the

00:26:50.760 fertility decline

00:26:51.420 increases you're

00:26:52.380 killing more and 0.90

00:26:53.120 more kids every year

00:26:54.220 like I understand why

00:26:55.420 they took the original

00:26:56.000 perspective but here's

00:26:56.660 where it gets really

00:26:57.100 interesting so this

00:26:58.240 entire argument you

00:26:59.260 know was based on

00:27:00.320 Aristotle the original

00:27:02.620 yeah like this this

00:27:03.620 this idea of the

00:27:04.680 formal and efficient

00:27:05.440 cause also being

00:27:06.780 really important beyond

00:27:07.820 material mathematically

00:27:08.720 proven things all of

00:27:10.020 his stuff was

00:27:10.580 Aristotelian because

00:27:11.760 he's basically saying

00:27:12.680 that there was like a

00:27:13.660 pre-descartes and

00:27:14.980 post-descartes era

00:27:16.120 and the pre-descartes

00:27:17.520 era at least when it

00:27:19.500 came to like modern

00:27:20.280 philosophy as we're

00:27:21.240 familiar with it was

00:27:22.460 driven by Aristotelian

00:27:24.080 before we go further

00:27:25.440 I gotta ask a lot of

00:27:27.440 questions yeah

00:27:27.860 Aristotle's thought

00:27:28.800 life didn't begin until

00:27:29.660 40 days after for boys

00:27:31.160 and 80 days after for

00:27:32.160 girls 0.98

00:27:32.400 so Aristotle does not

00:27:38.220 believe that his theory

00:27:39.460 agrees with this

00:27:40.520 preacher

00:27:40.860 sorry

00:27:42.280 what

00:27:43.460 for boys it's so much

00:27:48.020 earlier whereas like in

00:27:49.340 reality you know like a

00:27:51.220 zygote like it starts out 0.99

00:27:52.740 is like you know the

00:27:53.840 default blank is like

00:27:54.940 female and like you have 0.98

00:27:56.140 to go through more steps

00:27:57.220 to become a boy so like I

00:27:59.020 guess if you're trying to

00:27:59.880 like make a scientifically

00:28:00.760 based version of this it

00:28:02.180 should be

00:28:03.560 the boys start at 80

00:28:05.220 days and girls start at 0.82

00:28:06.940 40 days

00:28:07.740 forget that

00:28:10.000 because

00:28:10.720 girls 0.98

00:28:11.540 anyway

00:28:12.400 they need to have time 0.99

00:28:13.360 for their penises to 1.00

00:28:14.360 invert 0.99

00:28:14.700 don't you understand

00:28:15.840 if begin

00:28:17.380 he thought it began 40

00:28:19.740 days after the embryo

00:28:20.760 started developing or 80

00:28:22.060 days after in the case of

00:28:23.040 a woman 0.57

00:28:23.320 well I don't think our

00:28:24.280 friend knew that

00:28:25.340 no he didn't know this

00:28:26.520 but this is what's

00:28:27.320 interesting and this is

00:28:28.200 why

00:28:28.620 yes

00:28:29.100 you know if so the

00:28:31.060 bible doesn't support

00:28:31.940 this the early catholic

00:28:33.080 thinkers don't support

00:28:34.480 this it's a decision

00:28:35.720 that made sense and

00:28:36.680 saved lives when the

00:28:37.880 decision was made

00:28:38.780 yes

00:28:39.260 now likely leads to

00:28:40.480 more death than it

00:28:42.040 helps and at the end

00:28:42.900 of the day the groups

00:28:43.620 that believe it whatever

00:28:44.500 the case is if human

00:28:46.120 fertility continues to

00:28:47.140 decline at the rate it

00:28:47.920 has been declining are

00:28:49.360 going to become extinct

00:28:50.600 so it's a relative what

00:28:51.840 they believe you know

00:28:52.680 and this is where we get

00:28:53.960 to the final another

00:28:55.060 point that he was

00:28:56.040 pointing out right he's

00:28:57.220 like well um you know

00:28:59.940 you can't use this

00:29:00.700 technology because it's

00:29:01.620 profane because of like

00:29:02.860 the associations with it

00:29:04.300 because it's playing

00:29:04.960 god

00:29:05.480 right because it's

00:29:06.960 playing god and this

00:29:08.500 brings me to my two

00:29:11.060 boats and a helicopter

00:29:11.940 people who don't know

00:29:13.060 two boats and a

00:29:13.640 helicopter it's a famous

00:29:14.740 sermon which is a guy

00:29:16.660 is praying to god and

00:29:19.160 he says he's a very

00:29:20.460 pious man and he says

00:29:21.480 please save me for this

00:29:22.480 flood and then a boat

00:29:23.880 comes and he says oh

00:29:25.580 no don't worry god's

00:29:26.780 gonna save me i've been

00:29:27.780 praying to him i'm a

00:29:28.660 very pious man and so

00:29:29.700 the boat leaves and then

00:29:30.500 the next boat comes he 0.99

00:29:31.780 goes don't worry you

00:29:33.440 know god's gonna save

00:29:34.600 me don't worry about it

00:29:35.360 the water's getting

00:29:36.260 higher he's on his roof

00:29:37.560 you know really last

00:29:38.660 chance a helicopter comes

00:29:40.140 down and he's like nope

00:29:42.620 go away god's gonna save 0.53

00:29:44.780 me and then he dies in 0.99

00:29:46.120 the flood and goes to

00:29:46.820 heaven and he's at the

00:29:48.180 pearly gates and you know

00:29:50.260 he asked saint peter he

00:29:51.280 goes why didn't god save

00:29:52.900 me and he goes what the 0.92

00:29:53.980 fuck were the two boats 0.98

00:29:55.020 and a helicopter for 1.00

00:29:55.960 and you're french not

00:29:57.820 included in the original

00:29:58.740 sermon of course not

00:29:59.900 included no but i

00:30:00.960 actually think that this

00:30:01.860 is this is a thing to

00:30:04.040 spit on god's miracles to

00:30:06.100 think that you as a

00:30:07.860 human know what a

00:30:11.360 miracle from god is

00:30:13.180 supposed to look like and

00:30:15.100 then to turn down to

00:30:16.800 deny god's miracles from

00:30:18.980 you yeah on his plan for

00:30:20.940 your life which which is

00:30:22.580 to have a big happy

00:30:24.000 thriving family which he

00:30:25.160 has told you this and

00:30:26.280 you have turned down his

00:30:27.340 pathway it's like do you 1.00

00:30:29.280 think god is stupid do 1.00

00:30:31.240 you think he didn't know 1.00

00:30:32.580 that ibf wasn't going to

00:30:35.100 be invented do you think

00:30:36.360 that if he knew that ibf was

00:30:38.540 going to be invented he

00:30:39.840 wouldn't have worded

00:30:40.640 things differently in the

00:30:41.500 bible do you think that he

00:30:42.980 wouldn't have had people

00:30:44.320 like thomas aquinas that he

00:30:46.020 wouldn't have had people

00:30:46.860 like saint augustine say

00:30:48.340 different things about when

00:30:49.260 life begins it's almost as

00:30:51.700 if he very intentionally

00:30:53.340 worded things in a way

00:30:54.720 where it could be confused

00:30:56.600 into before ibf technology

00:30:59.300 being used to prevent the

00:31:01.540 wanton abortion and murder

00:31:03.000 of many you know later stage

00:31:05.000 fetuses okay but also once

00:31:08.240 the technology was invented be

00:31:10.000 revisited and then say ah

00:31:11.760 okay so this is what god

00:31:12.920 meant all along and it's just

00:31:14.920 like he's left so many

00:31:15.960 innumerable hints that that

00:31:17.800 was his intention it is

00:31:18.920 astounding and then to spit

00:31:21.300 on his miracle or to act

00:31:22.960 like he didn't expect ibf to

00:31:24.820 be invented or he didn't

00:31:25.800 know it was going to be

00:31:26.420 invented it just astounds

00:31:27.420 me but worse than that it's

00:31:29.380 worse than the guy from two 0.99

00:31:30.240 boats in a helicopter

00:31:30.820 because he's not just

00:31:31.440 spitting on god's miracles

00:31:32.320 for him he is like cursing

00:31:35.080 out the helicopter pilot and

00:31:36.800 trying to like pass an

00:31:37.900 amendment to prevent the

00:31:38.840 helicopter pilot from

00:31:39.760 rescuing anyone else

00:31:40.660 that is where yeah we kind of

00:31:43.360 draw a line here right is

00:31:44.480 that like it's one thing to

00:31:45.740 be like let's be cautious

00:31:47.220 let's not you know let's

00:31:49.000 not do anything imprudent

00:31:50.340 it's another thing to

00:31:51.600 impose that on other

00:31:52.620 people that can be

00:31:53.620 incredibly damaging

00:31:54.420 though I'm going to take

00:31:55.580 a moment to just give you

00:31:56.780 know a fair defense of the

00:31:59.360 catholic approach here which

00:32:00.560 is and I think our friend

00:32:01.720 pointed this out on the

00:32:02.400 call like there are some

00:32:04.160 you know amazing at the

00:32:05.580 time innovations that we

00:32:06.800 introduce that that are

00:32:07.920 quite helpful that can be

00:32:09.180 quite meaningful and then

00:32:10.520 they have unforeseen

00:32:11.520 consequences that can be

00:32:12.960 quite damaging and this is

00:32:14.500 where I do think you know

00:32:15.520 have approaching

00:32:16.420 technology with caution

00:32:17.640 and observance is

00:32:19.920 important and this is why

00:32:21.000 you know I think in the

00:32:21.640 end yes probably the

00:32:22.720 catholic church is going to

00:32:23.660 change their stance on

00:32:24.520 this and many other

00:32:25.520 religious organizations

00:32:26.440 probably will as well but

00:32:28.200 they're not crazy to say

00:32:29.520 hey let's let's wait until

00:32:30.720 let's see how this plays

00:32:31.880 out although I think we're

00:32:33.340 getting to the point where

00:32:34.260 you know IVF is is proving

00:32:36.400 to be pretty safe as a

00:32:39.000 bet pretty reliable yeah

00:32:40.400 so here now we've got to

00:32:42.260 talk about you know what

00:32:43.300 he said because like yeah

00:32:43.960 but ultimately you are

00:32:45.420 destroying the the embryos

00:32:48.360 which could if they were

00:32:50.020 implanted in somebody become

00:32:51.260 human lives right right

00:32:52.820 and this is where I'm like

00:32:54.960 yeah but come on like I

00:32:56.220 personally I really do not

00:32:57.980 think they believe they are

00:32:58.920 human lives I think they

00:32:59.760 use this for the sake of

00:33:00.540 argument but I think if you

00:33:02.060 said you can push a button

00:33:03.500 you can either destroy 10 0.99

00:33:05.160 embryos or kill a five-year-old 1.00

00:33:07.140 kid which button do you 1.00

00:33:08.780 press every time they're

00:33:10.780 going to destroy the embryos

00:33:11.860 even if you made the

00:33:13.160 button you know 25 embryos

00:33:16.140 50 embryos to save you know

00:33:18.080 a 10-year-old kid they're

00:33:19.600 going to press that button

00:33:20.400 because intuitive argument

00:33:21.640 is in favor of the idea of

00:33:23.040 potentiality and a five-year-old

00:33:24.720 kid obviously has more human

00:33:26.200 potentiality than an embryo

00:33:27.720 but the potentiality does

00:33:29.340 still matter I need to

00:33:31.160 remind the audience here

00:33:32.060 that us and Catholics are

00:33:33.780 arguing to try to find out

00:33:35.480 what's truth with the same

00:33:37.580 goal we are on the same

00:33:39.140 team meanwhile the

00:33:40.260 antinatalists come in here

00:33:41.840 and they're like they're

00:33:43.740 looking at this trolley

00:33:44.540 problem we've set up and

00:33:45.600 they're like multi-track

00:33:47.180 drifting

00:33:47.600 but yeah and and and this

00:33:52.220 is I I think one of those

00:33:54.020 things where when you look

00:33:54.960 at what they're saying it

00:33:56.020 just to me it doesn't pass

00:33:58.120 like a sanity test with

00:33:59.840 these embryos right like

00:34:01.220 yes if you allowed them to

00:34:02.720 develop past their current

00:34:04.460 stage every sperm that I

00:34:06.580 emit if I allowed it to

00:34:08.200 contact a human egg in some

00:34:09.740 way it could eventually

00:34:10.800 become a human being if I

00:34:12.380 take this perspective what I 1.00

00:34:13.840 should do is just ejaculate 1.00

00:34:15.340 one freeze it try to take 1.00

00:34:17.140 every single one of those

00:34:18.540 little sperms and put it 1.00

00:34:20.120 with one little egg it

00:34:21.800 reminds me of that legally

00:34:23.020 blonde scene where she's 1.00

00:34:24.500 like well shouldn't he be

00:34:25.340 responsible for every

00:34:26.320 emission although mr

00:34:27.900 Huntington makes an

00:34:28.720 excellent point I have to

00:34:30.680 wonder if the defendant kept

00:34:31.860 a thorough record of every

00:34:33.460 sperm emission made

00:34:34.460 throughout his life

00:34:35.340 interesting why do you ask

00:34:40.240 well unless the defendant

00:34:43.220 attempted to contact every

00:34:44.760 single one night stand to

00:34:46.000 determine if a child

00:34:46.920 resulted in those unions he

00:34:48.880 has no parental claim over

00:34:50.080 this child whatsoever why now

00:34:52.220 why this sperm

00:34:53.200 I see your point and for 0.99

00:34:57.260 that matter all masturbatory 0.99

00:34:59.620 emissions where his sperm was 0.99

00:35:00.680 clearly not seeking an egg

00:35:01.820 could be termed reckless

00:35:02.700 abandonment you are killing 0.99

00:35:04.580 it would be considered

00:35:06.480 reckless abandonment

00:35:07.700 whole humans yeah with

00:35:10.080 every emission if you take

00:35:11.840 this perspective because

00:35:12.860 every one of them has the

00:35:14.640 potential to become a full

00:35:15.980 human being although yeah we

00:35:17.320 will say many religious

00:35:18.120 conservatives have also been

00:35:20.040 very against any non-procreative

00:35:22.800 mission we'll do the Monty

00:35:23.400 Python scene here you see we

00:35:25.960 believe I'm a Roman Catholic and

00:35:30.720 have been since before our

00:35:32.260 bombers every sperm is sacred

00:35:37.960 every sperm is great if a sperm is 0.97

00:35:45.320 wasted God gets quite irate 0.52

00:35:50.560 every sperm is sacred every sperm 0.89

00:35:52.800 is great when a sperm is wasted 0.64

00:35:54.720 God becomes quite irate because

00:35:56.680 you know it is a logical thing

00:35:58.600 like this is a logical deduction

00:36:00.080 if you're taking this life

00:36:01.020 begins a conception approach

00:36:02.300 yes so like of course people

00:36:04.160 have come to it before but it's

00:36:05.760 also I don't know from my 0.74

00:36:07.360 perspective kind of silly because 0.74

00:36:08.800 I do believe you're choosing 0.87

00:36:09.820 between timelines with every

00:36:11.160 decision you make and erasing

00:36:12.360 children when you choose

00:36:13.600 that kid but why they are

00:36:22.460 replacements of people who had

00:36:23.660 their existence consumed by

00:36:25.780 denizens of the crimson world

00:36:27.220 now this is where it gets more

00:36:28.200 interesting to us so people would

00:36:29.640 be like do you think you are

00:36:31.360 killing humans if you don't end

00:36:32.980 up using all the embryos you 1.00

00:36:34.180 created right now we want to use

00:36:36.280 all the embryos we created we do

00:36:38.040 think that that is killing humans

00:36:39.300 but also when you take this

00:36:42.400 timeline splitting view killing

00:36:44.640 humans doesn't have quite the

00:36:46.280 same weight it does within other

00:36:48.140 views because you are also

00:36:50.460 responsible for everything that

00:36:52.240 happens with on the timeline

00:36:53.140 you're choosing let me explain

00:36:55.520 right so suppose I had like 50

00:37:00.160 kids I was just like okay well

00:37:01.460 then I have to maximize all the

00:37:02.980 kids I can have and I do

00:37:03.800 literally everything I can to

00:37:05.500 have as many kids as I have to

00:37:07.180 the extent where it lowers the

00:37:09.000 quality of life of my existing

00:37:10.460 kids and my ability to give

00:37:12.120 them a good childhood and my

00:37:13.500 ability to give them a culture

00:37:14.580 that they want to pass on in

00:37:15.580 the future and it leads to them

00:37:17.140 not having grandchildren or like

00:37:19.220 abusing their grandchildren in

00:37:20.420 some way so in the end you're

00:37:21.720 you're essentially killing

00:37:22.800 potential future generations

00:37:24.460 exactly every decision I make I'm

00:37:28.280 not just responsible for the one

00:37:30.620 person that creates or doesn't

00:37:32.160 create I'm responsible for all of

00:37:34.440 the ripple effects of that

00:37:35.660 decision yes centuries into

00:37:37.780 humanity's future yes I do not get

00:37:40.620 out every decision I make all of

00:37:44.220 the future rests on that

00:37:45.320 decision and everything that

00:37:46.840 could happen rests on that

00:37:47.800 decision and I am fully

00:37:49.500 responsible for all of that but

00:37:52.160 this is true not just for

00:37:54.340 creating an embryo this is true

00:37:55.560 of getting out of the bed in the

00:37:56.440 morning like people often you

00:37:58.200 know like in terms of our

00:37:59.100 personal productivity I think one

00:38:00.760 thing that really helps us it's

00:38:01.780 just getting out of bed in the

00:38:02.640 morning some people wake up when

00:38:04.080 the alarm goes off and they're

00:38:05.320 like oh I could go back to

00:38:06.260 sleep I'm literally thinking how

00:38:07.540 many hundreds of thousands of

00:38:09.660 humans are going to die because I 1.00

00:38:11.480 go back to sleep yeah right if I do

00:38:14.520 not perform the function I was

00:38:16.680 born to perform how many hundreds

00:38:19.660 of thousands of people die for

00:38:21.340 every moment of indolence and of

00:38:23.080 course being a human I will sin to

00:38:26.220 be a human who thinks that you will

00:38:27.920 not sin is to be extremely

00:38:30.620 susceptible to sin but you know

00:38:34.840 whether it's drinking or whether

00:38:36.060 it's the few days where I do fall

00:38:37.900 back asleep because I'm just

00:38:38.900 feeling that tired but I am

00:38:41.360 responsible for all of the souls

00:38:43.340 that bear the burden of my sin and

00:38:47.600 that number is innumerable and

00:38:50.600 therefore with every decision I

00:38:53.100 make it needs to bear an enormous

00:38:55.920 amount of conscious thought from my

00:38:58.500 perspective and I really cannot be

00:39:01.120 flippant with this stuff and so you

00:39:05.400 know all of this is really

00:39:06.120 interesting to me because I think it's

00:39:07.820 really an answer are you technically

00:39:09.480 killing a human or are you

00:39:10.640 functionally killing a human right I 0.96

00:39:12.740 understand the technical like

00:39:14.260 legalistic argument that you are

00:39:15.960 killing a human if you do not use an

00:39:17.960 embryo or you destroy an embryo yeah 0.99

00:39:20.100 but functionally through not doing that

00:39:22.620 a little 10 year old boy doesn't come

00:39:24.860 into this world or a little 10 year old

00:39:26.620 girl who is cute and says mama dad I

00:39:28.980 love you Emily what's wrong I'm the

00:39:32.180 last kid to be born what if by that

00:39:34.460 time mom and dad don't want me no way

00:39:37.020 but I've seen lots of families make

00:39:38.860 promises and then break them not us

00:39:42.400 Emily I will see to it personally that

00:39:46.580 you're not forgotten you promised to

00:39:48.460 me promise and this is something that

00:39:50.340 we bear every day because we Simone

00:39:54.700 could not get pregnant naturally yeah 0.98

00:39:56.700 so every one of our kids who I

00:39:59.500 interact with every day every time

00:40:01.300 they say data I love you they give me

00:40:03.680 this big hug they would not exist in

00:40:07.240 this world if I took this other

00:40:11.680 interpretation or if somebody convinced

00:40:13.720 me of this other interpretation I would

00:40:15.220 have erased them from the human timeline

00:40:18.700 that kid yeah very very obviously 0.99

00:40:29.960 immoral in equivalent to killing them 0.98

00:40:32.620 and and everything else is just fudging 0.96

00:40:35.920 the numbers to get out of the moral

00:40:37.700 weight of the action that you have

00:40:40.100 undertaken and I understand that many

00:40:41.800 people have taken that action in the

00:40:42.880 same way that many people have had an

00:40:43.980 abortion and killed a human being and

00:40:45.760 like I don't want to like really rub it in

00:40:47.400 for them you know you killed a human in

00:40:48.940 the same way I don't want to rub it into

00:40:50.020 people who didn't use IVF when they

00:40:51.100 could have you killed a human or a lot

00:40:53.060 of humans but I I think that it is 0.98

00:40:56.380 worth understanding our perspective on

00:40:58.480 this and our larger perspective is is

00:41:00.440 like we can evangelize our perspective

00:41:02.280 towards Catholics but I do not think that

00:41:04.320 any cultural group our cultural group for

00:41:05.980 example should ever use a legal system

00:41:08.100 to try to enforce another cultural group

00:41:10.360 to live by their values I believe that

00:41:14.180 that is one of the ways that God shows

00:41:16.460 what's true and what's not true is which

00:41:18.920 groups proliferate and which groups

00:41:20.660 don't proliferate and if I tip the scale

00:41:23.800 there then I have acted sinfully and

00:41:26.800 arrogantly to think that I understand

00:41:29.120 God's plan and God's miracles more than

00:41:32.160 he intended them to unfold it's a very

00:41:34.580 interesting question for us and I guess

00:41:36.260 the things that really shocked me when I

00:41:37.680 went into this was one I didn't know the

00:41:39.200 position of the early church on this

00:41:40.680 two I like I didn't realize how recently

00:41:43.260 the Catholic church had made a switch on

00:41:45.280 this issue I think a lot of Americans so I

00:41:47.060 did know how recently regular Protestants

00:41:49.340 had made a switch on this issue this was

00:41:50.720 seen as like a weird Catholic thing like

00:41:52.520 my granddad who was a conservative

00:41:53.700 congressman he even told me when I was

00:41:55.020 growing up he was like yeah it was really

00:41:56.100 weird because he was there during the

00:41:57.640 70s when this switch happened and he was

00:41:59.520 like it was considered like a weird

00:42:01.300 Catholic thing for my early political

00:42:03.940 career and then it became like a

00:42:05.280 mainstream conservative thing well and

00:42:06.920 around that time it's a weird Catholic 0.99

00:42:09.080 thing that had only been around for

00:42:11.120 about a hundred years yeah which in the

00:42:14.620 larger scheme of the church is not that

00:42:17.140 much time in the end yeah and it was a

00:42:19.620 good thing I'm saying it was a good

00:42:20.900 thing when it happened and I'm glad yeah

00:42:22.500 like here's another example of one of

00:42:24.340 those things like a technology that can

00:42:26.500 be very very good and life-saving at the

00:42:28.180 time and then has to be dropped you

00:42:30.300 because it starts killing people can you

00:42:31.500 guess what it is what is it asbestos

00:42:34.840 so keep in mind at the time when

00:42:38.220 everything was made out of wood

00:42:39.560 untreated thousands and thousands of

00:42:43.420 people died in fires all the time

00:42:45.400 because there was you know things would

00:42:48.040 just suddenly become engulfed in flames

00:42:50.060 people wouldn't have time to escape

00:42:51.260 people died and asbestos saved so many

00:42:54.740 lives because it slowed the rate of

00:42:57.000 burning of cities of houses you know

00:42:59.800 asbestos roofs all this asbestos in

00:43:01.940 buildings was truly life-saving

00:43:04.100 asbestos has been banned in in some

00:43:07.940 part of the world but for here in

00:43:11.760 Quebec we're telling that you should 0.96

00:43:14.600 use more asbestos really and then you

00:43:19.840 know we got to the point where we had

00:43:20.920 other fire returning chemicals and

00:43:22.340 materials and we reached a point at

00:43:24.040 which asbestos no longer made sense we

00:43:27.180 didn't need it anymore and so we have to

00:43:29.000 get rid of it and carefully remove it

00:43:30.380 from buildings because it is you know we

00:43:32.140 know how longer lifespans and how the

00:43:33.900 asbestos is going to get to us but the

00:43:35.800 point is that there can be a time when

00:43:38.080 something saves lives and is very very

00:43:40.100 good and then that same thing later on in

00:43:43.300 in the presence of other technologies and

00:43:45.160 understandings needs to be removed we

00:43:47.560 have to change that doesn't mean that

00:43:49.240 asbestos was always bad and always evil

00:43:51.680 it means that there's a time and a place

00:43:53.360 for things and I think that's where we

00:43:55.160 are with the Catholic Church and when

00:43:56.860 life begins right yeah well and I and I

00:43:59.160 would say that you know was this like

00:44:00.860 just a quick summary like God is not an 0.98

00:44:04.160 idiot okay God did not say once in the 0.99

00:44:07.500 Bible that life begins at conception 1.00

00:44:08.720 yet he said multiple times it begins

00:44:10.820 before conception yeah okay he has

00:44:13.620 multiple times within the Bible said

00:44:15.660 that baby's lives matter because he

00:44:17.680 thinks abortion is wrong and we think 1.00

00:44:18.780 abortion is wrong you know after a 1.00

00:44:20.220 certain period right but he he also like

00:44:23.100 he'll say like oh the baby jumped for joy

00:44:24.680 within the womb right like at a certain

00:44:26.400 trimester or something it's like great 0.99

00:44:27.580 you know we agree with that if you kill 1.00

00:44:30.280 a woman who's like heavily pregnant you 1.00

00:44:31.940 have killed two people you have not

00:44:33.400 killed one person because that person

00:44:34.780 would have come to existence they had

00:44:35.820 high potentiality right but if you

00:44:38.760 convince somebody to not have a kid you

00:44:41.620 have also killed somebody right so so

00:44:43.720 and God coded our biology he could have

00:44:46.420 made it so identical twins didn't exist

00:44:47.860 he could have made it so human chimeras 0.95

00:44:49.640 didn't exist and yet he coded that into

00:44:52.320 our biology the things do not happen by

00:44:55.840 accident I think if you look at God's

00:44:58.640 plan whether it's the Bible or human

00:45:00.220 biology or even the original arguments

00:45:02.800 like Aristotle and stuff like that he has

00:45:05.040 made his will imminently clear and I

00:45:08.820 really am looking forward to the day

00:45:11.300 when and again I again no animosity

00:45:13.720 towards Catholics this is just something 0.99

00:45:14.780 that we have like a really strong

00:45:16.240 difference of perception on but I I hope

00:45:19.460 and I genuinely believe that the

00:45:21.320 Catholic Church is going to change its 1.00

00:45:23.060 perception on this which will lead to

00:45:25.700 innumerably more humans come who are

00:45:28.840 waiting to come into existence coming

00:45:30.900 into existence fingers crossed

00:45:33.080 bonds and joy well-haha

00:45:34.840 okay

00:45:44.820 okay

00:45:47.040 now

00:45:48.540 how

Based Camp - December 18, 2023

Who's Killing More Babies, Us or Catholics

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