Based Camp - Why Are the Most Religious Mormons No Longer Having the Most Kids？ (This Changes Everything)

00:00:00.000 Hello, Simone! I am excited to be here with you today. Today, we are going to be having a very special episode where we are going to be giving you, Basecamp listeners, access to exclusive data that no one else has seen. And you know why? Because one of you put it together! Yes!

00:00:13.360 So, Nate, I was talking with this fan, and he is saying, anecdotally, as a Mormon, so obviously he has a lot of insight into what the Mormons are doing, the fertility rate among the Mormon community, he goes, it seems to me that the most religious of Mormons are having two big issues. One is they are going woke much faster than other Mormons, like the individuals within their communities seem to go woke at a higher rate than other communities.

00:00:40.040 He noted this mostly happens when they deconvert, but this is still a problem, because their kids will be going to the same schools, which can become a drain on the community overall.

00:00:47.980 And two is, they just seem to be being hit by fertility collapse much harder than just generically religious Mormons.

00:01:00.160 And I was like, that's a really interesting observation. Would you mind trying a study on that?

00:01:06.960 And he actually went on and did a study, and a big one. He got 310 people involved in this.

00:01:13.060 Would you like to know more?

00:01:14.360 And so, he found out that his hypothesis was borne out in the data, and it gives us one of the keys for a new theory at solving fertility collapse that I have been building.

00:01:27.860 Oh, yummy. I'm excited for this.

00:01:30.660 I'm quoting him right now in an email where he sent the data to me.

00:01:35.060 I took it upon myself to do a study on age, religiosity, and fertility among members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

00:01:41.680 Everyone in the study has strong ties to the state of Utah and still maintains some relationship.

00:01:46.380 For some, it may be very complicated with Mormons as a cultural group.

00:01:50.160 This is based on a random sampling of 310 people I found on Facebook for the study.

00:01:54.440 They are divided into six groups. Groups 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6, with one being least religious and six being most religious.

00:02:03.560 Findings were stark. Among those aged 65 plus, the correlation between religiosity and fertility was 0.45.

00:02:11.960 They had an average fertility of a whopping 4.53.

00:02:16.920 So, 65 and older for this, almost had a 4.5 average fertility rate. That's fantastic, Mormon. 1.00

00:02:22.200 Wow.

00:02:22.920 But that's also what we would expect. Remember, Mormons used to have unusually high fertility rates. 0.99

00:02:26.680 Yeah.

00:02:27.140 For those aged 64 and younger, the fertility rates dropped dramatically.

00:02:32.800 Among those 35 to 64, the correlation between religiosity and fertility rate was 0.16.

00:02:39.120 So, note, it dropped to a rather low level. It dropped from 0.45 to 0.16 in this next generation.

00:02:46.960 And I'm going to, you know, I think what's really happening here and why this hasn't been picked up in data yet is I think that this is a new phenomenon where in some religious traditions, within the modern post-cell phone generation generation, fertility rates drop as religiosity enters extreme ranges.

00:03:07.960 But we'll talk more about the data here, going back to the quote.

00:03:12.540 What appears to be the case is that among the strongly religious, they started having kids less, but among those less religious, they still had cultural reasons to have kids.

00:03:22.720 So, 35 to 64 age cohort had a fertility rate of 2.92.

00:03:28.900 Among those aged 25 to 34, the correlation between religiosity and fertility was 0.32.

00:03:34.660 So, much stronger than the 35 to 64 group, but not as high as the 65 plus age group.

00:03:39.940 They currently have a fertility rate of 1.1, but I expect this group to eventually have 0.9 more children on average.

00:03:47.540 So, we'll round out to about two, barely below replacement rate.

00:03:50.700 So, wait, you meant 2.1 then.

00:03:55.000 You just said 1.1 earlier.

00:03:57.780 No, they have a current fertility rate of 1.1, but he expects them to have an additional 0.9 kids as they age.

00:04:03.820 Oh, oh, sorry, of this sample.

00:04:06.000 Okay, yeah, sorry, okay, now I'm following.

00:04:08.100 By the way, I don't cut out when you misunderstand something because other people have pointed out in the comments, they're like, if Simone has misunderstood something, more than half your audience is misunderstood.

00:04:15.940 Not everyone is as sleep-deprived as Simone, so that's maybe not, but yeah.

00:04:22.700 Well, then, honestly, you should be going to bed earlier and putting the kids to bed earlier because they're really tired when I wake them up, which to me implies that they're not going down early.

00:04:30.060 They're refusing to go to bed.

00:04:32.300 Simone, if you get them in the room alone earlier, they'll go to bed early.

00:04:35.740 Yeah.

00:04:36.020 All right.

00:04:37.880 Sorry, this is our parenting negotiation here.

00:04:41.880 What?

00:04:42.520 With me being a bad, bad husband, just being too, like, you have to get more sleep, wife.

00:04:47.440 I demand it.

00:04:48.980 No choice do you have in the matter.

00:04:51.860 Okay.

00:04:52.520 Previously, I thought these trends would only appear for those born post-1980, but the data clearly shows them emerging for those born post-1960.

00:05:01.020 So the internet was not the major factor here.

00:05:02.920 Oh, I was wrong.

00:05:03.820 Yeah, okay.

00:05:04.480 I would say it may deal more with economic factors, but I'm not entirely sure.

00:05:10.040 Furthermore, I acknowledge the largest limitation to the study is mere subjectively rating people one to six, but I feel like it's not too different than doing the same thing with people on the Jewish spectrum by analyzing clothing, style, aesthetics, activities, language, et cetera.

00:05:24.220 I also acknowledge that my Facebook may be a slightly higher fertility sample than average, but I'm unsure about this.

00:05:31.500 This is where it gets interesting.

00:05:32.580 For the 64-plus age group, the fertility rate for those most religious, six rating, their fertility rate was 5.4.

00:05:42.160 Most of the other religious groups hovered around four.

00:05:44.900 So boomers and the silent generation Mormons usually had around four-ish kids on average. 0.99

00:05:50.360 Obviously, some as high as seven in sizable numbers and somewhere as low as two in sizable numbers.

00:05:55.380 However, for the 35 to 64 age group, the most religious, the sixth rating, the fertility rate collapsed to 3.21.

00:06:03.000 But the group that was rated as four actually rose to 5.27 from 4.4 in the older cohort.

00:06:10.960 So I want to make this clear.

00:06:12.180 Remember, in the younger cohort, as time has gone on, the fertility rate of less religious Mormons has gone up, not down.

00:06:22.780 Okay, so Mormons who considered themselves slightly less religious than half of Mormons.

00:06:30.340 Oh, no, wait.

00:06:30.800 Sorry.

00:06:31.360 What was the four group?

00:06:32.220 It went up to six.

00:06:33.220 So three was average.

00:06:34.740 So these are people who consider themselves slightly more religious than the average Mormon, but are not at the five or six level.

00:06:40.880 So these are individuals who would have some Mormon friends, some non-Mormon friends, but would generally follow all of the rules and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:06:48.520 Okay.

00:06:48.800 Their fertility rate has gone up as overall Mormon fertility rate has been collapsing.

00:06:55.360 Where it's been collapsing is in the ultra-religious cohort.

00:06:59.940 Doesn't that dovetail well with your argument around...

00:07:04.760 Deontological religious systems being the core failure?

00:07:07.240 No, pluralism being a driver of fertility. 1.00

00:07:12.080 When you're more surrounded by groups that are different from you, you feel inspired to have more of your own group out of a feeling of pride.

00:07:18.440 That's likely a big thing here.

00:07:20.000 So we've noted here that the more immigrants the country has, typically the higher the native group's fertility rate becomes.

00:07:24.760 And the more animosity immigrant groups have with each other, or the more culturally distinct they are, the higher the fertility rate. 1.00

00:07:29.960 I think this is a big thing, sort of subsidizing Israel's fertility rate. 0.91

00:07:33.160 Well, and it's also, you could look at it as a cultural pride thing.

00:07:36.860 When you discover what it is that makes you special, it makes you proud to perpetuate that.

00:07:42.000 If you don't see what's special about what you have because you're surrounded by it, you have less of a motivation to try to do your part to continue it.

00:07:49.500 This is actually something that he looked for.

00:07:52.060 So to be in the five and six categories, specifically in the six category, it meant that almost all of your friend group was Mormon at that point.

00:07:59.720 So, and apparently this is the thing among devout Mormons, like super devout Mormons just don't have many friends who aren't devout Mormons as well.

00:08:08.380 And so it leads to this, you know, that would definitely, you're right there.

00:08:12.220 I actually think that this is partly down to deontological relationship with religion versus non-deontological relationship with a religion.

00:08:19.120 And in Mormonism, it's very easy to build a deontological relationship to a religion. 0.65

00:08:22.900 Yeah, to a fault. In fact, a lot of practicing Mormons that I've met focus only on the deontological element, not even really believing in the faith at all.

00:08:32.320 Just being like, I go through the motions because I like the community, but they don't do it for a reason, you know?

00:08:40.100 Yeah, well, and this creates downstream negative effects, but we'll get to this at the end of the lecture.

00:08:45.000 Not the lecture, episode? I don't know, whatever.

00:08:46.980 Everything of mine is a lecture. I'm sorry, people. I used to, I used to teach classes. So that's, that's why.

00:08:52.800 Well, you grew up on the great courses. Of course, you believe in lectures.

00:08:58.440 For people who don't know, there was this great company, Teach12, where now you can get a subscription and just listen to their lectures.

00:09:03.940 I thought it was referred to as the teaching company.

00:09:06.280 Now you can get.

00:09:06.940 It's called the teaching company, but I'm just saying teach12.com is their URL.

00:09:10.520 But at original.

00:09:10.900 They used to offer these absolutely amazing courses where they would find the best professors at like tons of different universities.

00:09:15.880 I've heard that the quality of their courses has gone downhill recently.

00:09:19.260 And I found the same thing when I've re-engaged.

00:09:21.900 I haven't been like as drawn in as I was by the old stuff.

00:09:24.720 It depends. There's a lot of variation.

00:09:26.680 So they still have, it's now known as Wondrium.

00:09:29.140 You can get an app and then you sort of buy a subscription to get access to their library of courses.

00:09:33.980 And so you don't have to buy courses individually, like you used to have to, to get big tapes of them.

00:09:39.380 The problem is that now there is more variation.

00:09:41.740 So for example, I love all of their courses by Dr. Robert Sapolsky,

00:09:44.700 but you know, you can also get a lot of stuff by him for free, or you can just read his books, but those are really great. 0.97

00:09:50.300 There are others that just kind of suck. 0.88

00:09:52.160 So yeah, it depends. 0.97

00:09:53.220 For people who have read the Pragmatist Guide to Crafting Religion,

00:09:55.780 I mentioned that you should divide your life into stages.

00:09:58.560 Like that's the way my life was taught to me by my parents, like between X age and X age, this is your focus.

00:10:03.440 And I was taught up until a certain age, like my entire focus in life was to prepare myself,

00:10:08.860 like make myself the best tool possible for changing the world.

00:10:12.880 And that part of doing that was education.

00:10:15.660 And I knew like in high school, I just wasn't getting a high enough quality education.

00:10:19.820 So I would spend all of my free time listening to lectures.

00:10:23.000 In my early jobs, when I had to do like boring sorts of just like lab work all day,

00:10:28.300 that wasn't cognitively engaging, I'd spend all day listening to lecture series.

00:10:31.540 So, you know, these lecture series are typically like 24, 48 hours long in total.

00:10:35.880 So it was an opportunity for me just to basically constantly be blasted with lectures

00:10:41.120 to get a college level education.

00:10:44.320 Well, it's something your family also always did on long car rides.

00:10:48.200 You would listen to them.

00:10:48.980 I think it's a great thing for a family to do.

00:10:50.520 Your mom still every morning while doing her yoga would listen to the great courses. 0.63

00:10:54.900 Yeah, my family built it as a normalized thing that you should always have lectures on.

00:10:59.340 And I remember when I bought them as a young kid, they're really expensive.

00:11:03.140 So, and this was in the nineties, you know.

00:11:05.200 I think it would cost in the nineties, like $130.

00:11:08.120 And that it would cost a hundred to $500, depending on the lecture.

00:11:11.480 Yeah.

00:11:11.840 Yeah.

00:11:12.040 I think these days, yeah, they almost charged what you would pay for an actual course at

00:11:17.660 a, not even a community college, more than that.

00:11:20.600 But you could get them really cheap if you bought them on cassette or not really cheap,

00:11:24.580 but like in the $70 range sometimes.

00:11:27.780 So I buy these big books of cassettes.

00:11:30.140 If anybody remembers those old cassette books, this was long after anyone was using cassettes.

00:11:34.120 And I just have a cassette player all the time.

00:11:36.160 Also, because-

00:11:36.860 You still have them, by the way.

00:11:38.300 Did a very good job of holding my place in the lecture.

00:11:41.080 And so I remember once I was jogging in gym class and one of the teachers pulled me aside

00:11:47.340 and they go, oh my God, was your family, because you're from Florida, right?

00:11:50.360 Were they one of the ones hit by the hurricane?

00:11:51.820 Like, is that why you always have all this cheap technology?

00:11:53.740 And I realized I could use this because I didn't like to change out of my dress shoes 0.99

00:12:00.380 before running because it was such a pain in the ass. 0.99

00:12:03.240 And I was like, oh yes. 0.99

00:12:04.400 And then I didn't have to change out of my dress shoes anymore before running because-

00:12:08.100 Because you were too poor.

00:12:09.400 I was too poor.

00:12:10.400 Yeah.

00:12:10.720 Too poor.

00:12:11.320 Oh no.

00:12:13.480 Sorry.

00:12:14.020 I derailed us.

00:12:14.800 Let's go back.

00:12:15.420 Let's get back.

00:12:16.140 I have to go back to the thing.

00:12:17.980 So I want to note here, if you were like graphing this, the graph would pick.

00:12:47.960 Gink at four and then start going down when you get to five and six.

00:12:54.140 And that three actually has a higher fertility rate than five.

00:12:59.440 That's very interesting.

00:13:01.300 So it peaks on the early side.

00:13:03.980 Yeah.

00:13:04.640 So you want to be in the three or four cohort, not in the five or six cohorts.

00:13:10.260 In terms of what I expect, and this is even among the very young kids, right?

00:13:13.660 So we're still seeing this effect in the young kids.

00:13:16.000 In terms of what I would expect these numbers to be eventually, these women are still having 1.00

00:13:23.200 children, is the following.

00:13:24.720 He goes, sorry, one, 1.05, two, 1.31, three, 2.31, four, 2.91, five, 2.39, and six, 2.25.

00:13:35.520 The groups currently have a standard deviation of the following, one at 0.56, two at 0.69,

00:13:44.720 three at 1.04, four at 1.13, five at 1.38, and six at 1.19.

00:13:53.240 The implications of this as far are as follows.

00:13:56.300 For whatever reason, devout LDS born after 1960 started having far fewer children.

00:14:03.500 Lower religiosity Mormons born after 1988 will have fertility rates comparable to secular

00:14:09.380 society at large.

00:14:10.840 Moderately religious Mormons born since 1960 have on average the most kids, four being the

00:14:17.060 highest rating, with three and five being virtually the same for younger Mormon women, but five

00:14:22.260 being much higher for Gen X Mormon women.

00:14:24.840 The theory is that those with, and no, he has a lot of beliefs about different, and I'm

00:14:30.920 not actually going into all of his emails, because I just don't have enough information, and there's

00:14:35.340 not enough data to say that his observed theories are correct, but he thinks it's mostly that

00:14:40.440 the difference in which religiosity group somebody falls into has a lot to do with what immigration

00:14:46.120 waves their families come from.

00:14:47.760 Oh, interesting.

00:14:48.460 In the Mormon church, with different parts of England, and different motivators for, well, 0.85

00:14:54.020 in Germany and stuff like that, and different motivators for the immigration, leading to

00:14:58.860 them falling into different categories of sort of the Mormon faith.

00:15:02.700 But just have that in your mind while I'm reading this next part.

00:15:05.940 The theory is that those with Yankee-selected heritage cultural background among Utah Mormons

00:15:10.140 had collapsing fertility rates in the 1960-1990 period.

00:15:13.740 Among the other, high-income and highly-educated, they were able to maintain high fertility rates

00:15:18.860 for those born 1960-1980, but afterwards, this dropped precipitously.

00:15:23.760 Some of these, high-income slash education, still have higher fertility, and this explains

00:15:28.620 the higher standard deviation, 1.38 for this group.

00:15:31.300 The group that is doing the best right now is likely part of what one would call the trustee

00:15:36.060 slash clan-based family structure, which there are an abundant amount of in Utah.

00:15:40.580 Perhaps 10% of the total LDS population belongs to one.

00:15:44.400 This group leans more working class, is extremely Trump-coded, while the further away one is from

00:15:50.160 four, the less they are, and typically much more, quote-unquote, red state in their culture,

00:15:55.260 more culturally Western and vaguely Southern as opposed to WASPy. 0.78

00:16:00.100 And he showed me pictures of this group, and they do exist across the Mormon religiosity

00:16:04.580 spectrum, and we'll talk about this more in the next video.

00:16:07.840 Because what was really interesting for me is they didn't set off my pod person instinct,

00:16:12.860 and the other type of highly religious Mormon does set off my pod person instinct, and this

00:16:18.380 was just really interesting to me.

00:16:20.340 To me, when I looked at them, I was like, oh, they're culturally similar to me, or if not

00:16:24.580 culturally similar, like they come off as like normal people to me, and not like weird,

00:16:31.020 otherworldly, WASPy people, which was very interesting.

00:16:34.240 I don't think you've had enough pie, why don't you even have one more?

00:16:36.620 No, no, I'm fine.

00:16:37.300 I really think you should have more pie.

00:16:38.580 Have more pie.

00:16:38.860 Try some pie.

00:16:40.120 Well, I just had a piece, you know, I mean.

00:16:42.180 Try the pie.

00:16:44.280 Try the pie.

00:16:45.780 Try it.

00:16:46.560 Try the pie.

00:16:48.620 Try the pie.

00:16:50.260 Try the pie.

00:16:50.900 Try the pie.

00:16:51.960 Tomorrow's episode is going to focus much more on the pod person instinct that some people

00:16:55.980 have that causes them to be sort of instinctually freaked out when people show a degree of

00:17:01.980 conformity to a central authority, and try to delineate exactly what signals elucidate

00:17:09.740 this, as well as the cultural impact that the pod person instinct has had.

00:17:14.920 But the type of Mormons that do not trigger this pod person instinct, culturally speaking,

00:17:20.380 often have a lot of similarities to each other.

00:17:22.280 Typically, these are the types of people who would wear a lot of camouflage or American

00:17:28.000 flags, be a bit more tan, you know, look a bit more like they drive a pickup truck,

00:17:34.180 that sort of thing.

00:17:34.980 And that is not all Mormons that fall into this category.

00:17:37.920 It's actually quite different from mainstream Mormon culture.

00:17:40.720 What this means long term is that Mormons genetically, based on reproductive fitness trends

00:17:45.520 among the Utah Mormons, are becoming more Danish and somewhat more borderland slash

00:17:49.520 Celtic and are becoming less Anglo.

00:17:52.120 So to fill in a bit of what he's saying here from other parts of his theory that I didn't

00:17:56.860 take time to fully read, and this is anecdotal evidence, not stuff that he picked up in the

00:18:01.120 data, but he suspects that the Anglo-Mormons, who predominantly came from some parts of England

00:18:07.260 and were some of the first of the Mormon settlers, fall much more into this deontological

00:18:12.300 religious extremist category of Mormon, and that later Scotch-Irish groups who moved

00:18:17.440 from the borderland regions into the Mormon territory, or from Denmark into Mormon territory,

00:18:24.180 that they focus much more on this clan-based moral structure, and that that has prevented

00:18:30.320 them from becoming as ideologically extreme, but also given them more pride in their family

00:18:37.360 and cultural heritage.

00:18:39.180 I.e. they breed a lot, not because there's a set of rules telling them to breed a lot, but

00:18:43.840 because they have pride in their family and Mormon identity.

00:18:48.100 A great example of somebody like this in a different tradition is Peachy Keenan, who we

00:18:52.380 had on the show recently, and a lot of people in the comments were saying things like, oh,

00:18:57.460 you finally had a Catholic on the show, and they don't know their theology.

00:19:01.700 Specifically, we asked her a theological question, and she was like, I don't know that one.

00:19:05.680 And I think that this represents a perfect example of somebody who is motivated to breed and takes

00:19:14.100 great pride in her Catholic identity, but isn't particularly worried about deontological

00:19:20.120 perfectionism or theological perfectionism.

00:19:23.180 And this mindset appears to be the mindset that is most successful in the current age.

00:19:28.340 We actually, after the episode, Simone was having a conversation with one of our Catholic

00:19:35.500 fans, who's another woman, who's a lot of kids, and she was saying the same thing, in

00:19:41.120 other words, in one of her answers to Simone, where there was some theological point that

00:19:45.620 came up, and she goes, I just don't really think about it much.

00:19:48.280 And I think that this mindset, while it may be denigrated by the theological nerds, which

00:19:55.460 are the type of people who watch this show, is actually the most robust mindset to resist

00:20:02.400 fertility collapse.

00:20:03.680 Gosh, on a second revision of this, now that I think about it, I've also noticed the same

00:20:07.180 thing from the Jews that watch our podcast that we talk to.

00:20:10.500 While we talk to a lot of, like, Orthodox Jews that watch this podcast, the ones that are 1.00

00:20:16.820 theologically most competent and most interested in the theological questions, almost all are unmarried

00:20:24.400 or have no kids, whereas the ones that are more focused on Jewish identity and pride in

00:20:32.240 Jewish identity do have lots of kids.

00:20:35.160 And I think this helps elucidate one of the purposes behind sort of the Techno Puritan project

00:20:40.860 that we've been working on, which is to say it's very important from a intergenerational

00:20:46.440 fertility perspective, to identify what it means to be part of your culture, what your

00:20:53.080 culture is about, and who you are as a people.

00:20:57.200 And so even if you don't feel like you may have a history or one of the existing cultures

00:21:03.240 that you want to glom onto, you can build your own.

00:21:06.480 Just make sure it's distinct and communicated to your children.

00:21:10.500 And something that you take pride in and something that they might be able to choose to take pride

00:21:14.520 in as well.

00:21:15.280 I believe that Mormons age 65 plus were much more dysgenic and are selected than those under 1.00

00:21:21.700 35 being much more K-selective.

00:21:24.480 So first, what does K-selected versus R-selected mean?

00:21:27.720 R-selected species are typically species that specialize in having tons of offspring but don't

00:21:33.360 put a lot of parental involvement into them.

00:21:35.340 Think of, like, the hundreds of turtles going down from the beach and some of them getting

00:21:39.920 eaten by, like, crabs and seagulls that we talked about in the Peachy Kenan episode.

00:21:44.540 But K-selected species is one that invests a huge amount of parental time in just one 0.87

00:21:51.140 particular offspring or, well, never one particular offspring.

00:21:54.180 Any species that did that would go extinct.

00:21:55.640 But fewer offspring.

00:21:57.400 The problem here being is that within a species, you don't get a bifurcation of K-selected or R-selected 0.74

00:22:05.300 strategies, especially within humans.

00:22:08.080 This is a between-species comparison thing.

00:22:11.060 And it doesn't really make sense to think of humans as either K-selected or R-selected

00:22:17.020 strategies because generally the humans who have tons of kids or the cultural groups that

00:22:23.240 have tons of kids also put more effort into raising those kids than the humans who have

00:22:28.500 very few kids.

00:22:29.760 In addition to that, and there's been a lot of studies done on this, the amount of effort

00:22:34.440 you put into raising every individual kid doesn't lower the amount of effort you have for other

00:22:40.800 kids.

00:22:41.140 So if you look at, like, a graph of families based on how many children they have and the

00:22:46.060 success likelihood in adulthood of those children, it's just not a huge correlation.

00:22:51.400 You're not really hurting your other children's potential outcome by having more children.

00:22:57.380 Also, one thing you may note in this graph is that children with one sibling actually do

00:23:03.660 better than children with no siblings, and children with two siblings do even better than

00:23:08.380 children with just one sibling.

00:23:10.140 So the idea that, oh, I just have one kid and I'm going to focus tons of resources into

00:23:14.480 raising that one kid, and then they'll be better off than if they had a sibling or two

00:23:20.220 siblings, that's just factually untrue.

00:23:22.740 Your first kid is helped by the first other kid you have, then those two kids are helped

00:23:29.660 by the next kid you have, and after that, any degree which they could be hurt is just really

00:23:36.940 not that bad.

00:23:38.460 So for example, if you're raising four kids, on average, those kids are going to have better

00:23:44.360 outcomes than somebody who is raising just one kid.

00:23:47.060 And finally, I'd note is that the few groups in history, the backwoods culture that we'll

00:23:54.200 talk about more tomorrow and we talked about in yesterday's lecture, could be thought of

00:24:00.640 as like plausibly are selected in the way that they structure their clans, in that they offer

00:24:06.620 almost no parental resources, which is one of the things we're going to talk about tomorrow.

00:24:10.360 They're really just like, okay, have a ton of kids, and you kids work together to figure

00:24:14.880 it out, but I'm not going to help you in any way, and therefore a lot of them died, or

00:24:19.620 didn't end up securing spouses and having kids of their own.

00:24:22.640 And people can be like, well, that's a horrible way to do it, but if you don't do things that

00:24:26.260 way, if you lean too far on case selectivity, then you don't get any intergenerational improvement

00:24:31.100 because you don't have the fitter of the offspring being the ones who end up continuing the line,

00:24:37.720 or the fitter variants of the culture being the ones that continue the line, with the assumption

00:24:42.480 that every offspring is going to alter the culture to some extent. You basically are artificially

00:24:47.500 propping up whichever random ones you do happen to have through the immense attention that you're

00:24:53.800 focusing on them, and money you're pouring into their education, etc, etc, etc, which intergenerationally

00:24:59.920 is going to have really negative effects for that culture. A culture that is not okay with its

00:25:05.260 less fit offspring failing is a culture that is going to eventually die. However, ignoring all this

00:25:13.380 KR stuff, if we're thinking about this type of Mormon that I was talking about earlier, that does seem

00:25:20.460 to be pretty high fertility in our current environment, and doesn't set off my pod person detector.

00:25:25.600 Like a Mormon who codes this way to me? Kevin Dolan is a Mormon who codes this way to me, 0.82

00:25:30.000 you know, one of our Mormon friends. Where to me, he feels much more, like, Western than Mormon, like,

00:25:37.040 waspy. I guess I would say, like, the primary thing I would look for here is how sort of, like,

00:25:41.960 preening do they come off as? In his letters to me, he used the term trustee to describe this clan-based

00:25:48.620 section of Mormon culture, and one of the really interesting things he pointed out about the trustee

00:25:53.160 section of Mormon culture was that, unlike the rest of Mormon culture, they're much more outdoorsy, 0.93

00:25:59.100 more focused on fishing and hiking and skiing and stuff like that, and he noted how actually

00:26:06.280 unusual stuff like skiing and outdoorsy stuff is for people on the zoomy side of Mormon culture, 1.00

00:26:13.620 given how much of a paradise Utah is for these sorts of activities. He says that this difference,

00:26:21.040 and we'll go into it more in the next episode, is something called being a zoomy, I believe,

00:26:26.660 a zoomy, a zoomy, which is a term that Mormons would know, but I wouldn't know, and I was reading,

00:26:33.300 here's a quote about what zoobies are, you can tell a zoomy by appearance only, although there are a

00:26:38.280 certain stereotyped look, preppy sweater boys and plastic girls are often associated with zoomyhood,

00:26:45.340 but yeah. Continuing off of other trends and assumptions, this gene pool is now deselecting

00:26:51.800 those with 110 IQs, but has become increasingly technophilic with some small reactionary groups,

00:26:58.320 often six in religiosity, being technophobic. This means that future Mormons, often coming from 0.99

00:27:03.660 trustee slash clan families in the three to four range, will be of IQ 90 types, but they may be

00:27:08.760 higher educated types that if they do reproduce, some will be group five and two, will have a higher

00:27:15.420 amount of the IQ 130 types. I foresee similar conditions to exist for the next 30 to 40 years,

00:27:22.440 and that group five's fertility will stabilize around 2.3. Right now I've noticed influencers

00:27:27.600 are still having lots of kids, like at least four, so there may be a real possibility of future

00:27:33.060 genes in Utah will select even more for increased sociability, extroversion, performance skills,

00:27:39.500 verbal IQ over spatial IQ, hand-eye coordination, and other related traits,

00:27:43.840 and conventionally attractive looks that would support this. Bottom line, until the world

00:27:48.680 radically revolutionized, those groups three and four will continue to have kids out of cultural

00:27:54.440 pride. Honestly, there's almost as much local pride here as Texas, and a big part of that is having

00:28:00.640 large families, and will be the most fertile group until there is either one, radical changes in the

00:28:06.660 outside global cultural environment, or two, radical changes in the LDS church demanding higher

00:28:11.360 fertility. I don't see either one of these happening mid-century. Now this is really interesting,

00:28:15.100 and he makes a really strong point here. Cultural pride in the current landscape, like the current

00:28:21.220 social technological landscape, is a better motivator of high fertility than deontological religious

00:28:27.420 rules. And what we are seeing is the Mormons in this ultra high religiosity category, they are likely

00:28:36.960 motivated more by what the church is telling them to do, and the church rules, and this does not appear

00:28:42.360 to be good enough to overcome fertility collapse and the drivers of fertility collapse. However, the Mormons 1.00

00:28:47.580 in this, I'm an average Mormon, or I'm a bit more Mormon than the average Mormon, this group is primarily

00:28:54.700 motivated by cultural pride. Yeah. And their cultural pride motivation is what is actually able to drive high

00:29:03.820 fertility. And in fact, in the age of social media leads to an increase rather than a decrease in this

00:29:12.320 cultural group's fertility. Yeah. And that checks out with what I see in social media. The Mormons who are

00:29:20.360 very active aren't the most devout Mormons by any stretch of the imagination. They kind of cheat or skirt on the 1.00

00:29:29.220 rules a ton. But they clearly are generating pride, and they themselves have a lot of pride in their church

00:29:36.840 and religion. So that is really interesting. Yeah. Well, I mean, the gatekeepers are doing nothing but hurting

00:29:42.160 their church, basically. The ones who are like, we're not a true Mormon, unless, unless, unless, unless. Where, you know,

00:29:48.700 I think that what we're seeing here is that those deontological Mormons, those preacher boy type Mormons, 0.99

00:29:55.880 need to look to this other group to learn from them. And I think that this is something that, you

00:30:01.420 know, we can also see in the United States, where you see things like the collapsing fertility rate of

00:30:07.480 the Orthodox Christians and the Catholic Christians, who I think traditionally saw themselves as more of

00:30:12.740 this preacher boy type character, when they're, when they're altered about, then the more vulgar,

00:30:18.140 you know, Protestant or Appalachian groups. But it's because these groups just have more pride in who they

00:30:24.820 are. And they're not motivating fertility with a set of rules. But it's because they like existing,

00:30:30.300 and they like people like them existing. So let's, let's keep that going, right? You know,

00:30:34.860 so in here, I know, one final point for those born after 1960, among this population group,

00:30:40.520 I theorize that those who are in groups one and six have damaging slash complicated slash negative

00:30:46.060 relationships with sexuality, especially forms of sexuality that are pronatal. And those who in groups

00:30:51.160 three and four are the opposite was twos and fives being in between. And, and I note here,

00:30:57.100 yeah, I definitely see this is there's this new, like a group of Mormons who are becoming more

00:31:01.520 sexually comfortable. And we'll do an episode on the Mormon swinger phenomenon. Um, because apparently 0.79

00:31:05.980 like swinger culture has gotten really big among Mormons because they get married.

00:31:09.640 Or it's just these moms of mom talk. Yeah. 0.96

00:31:12.840 I've heard, no, no, no, no, no. I've heard from other Mormons online. They're like, oh yeah,

00:31:17.000 like you go to ex-friend's house and you'll see signs that it's been happening. Like,

00:31:21.340 but it's a really weird sort of swinger culture because they believe the only way to do it without 0.93

00:31:26.420 cheating is to watch them sleeping with somebody. Like if the husband or wife is in the room watching

00:31:31.080 you sleep. Well, my understanding is that the, the swinging is anything but actual PIV intercourse.

00:31:39.100 Yeah. I think it's usually like oral and hand job. Yeah. So it's, I think also that the, 0.99

00:31:45.220 the Mormon religion is, is kind of that's, it's, it's one of those loopholes where like,

00:31:50.660 if you're not going to be super persnickety about things, the whole, you know, sex before marriage 0.98

00:31:56.880 thing, you know, it doesn't count if it's oral, that's not sex. And so that's pretty pervasive,

00:32:03.500 et cetera, you know, things, things like that. So I could see that is not counting as sex outside

00:32:07.880 of marriage because it's not technically sex, but anyway. 1.00

00:32:12.300 Well, and I know there's some Mormons here being like, Oh no, those Mormons are the worst. And I'm 1.00

00:32:18.060 like, those Mormons represent the hope for your religion. And that's, that's, what's really

00:32:22.160 surprising me about this message that normally you think it's, and we've even kind of shared this

00:32:27.160 message that it's the religious extremists that are going to, you know, carry forward their religious

00:32:33.460 legacies and their people. And they're going to inherit the future of those groups. And yet here,

00:32:38.360 it's essentially the moderates that represent the future of the LDS church, which is the last thing

00:32:44.100 I was going to expect you to say, but it makes so much sense. And I should have thought, well, of

00:32:47.580 course.

00:32:48.800 Yeah. Now I've been doing more research and it appears that the level of trustee slash clanness

00:32:54.260 may correlate more strongly than even the religious group rating. What I've realized is that for

00:32:58.500 whatever reason, trustee slash clan Mormon families concentrate on level four, one to six religiosity

00:33:04.360 group. Now here we need to take a stop because remember I said at the end of yesterday's episode,

00:33:09.980 for anyone who hasn't watched that, you might want to watch it in preparation for tomorrow's episode,

00:33:14.180 because these three episodes are sort of all building to the conclusion that while I think

00:33:20.960 that these things matter, like the pure vitalism of a group matters, which can be matters in terms

00:33:25.640 of murder rates. That's what we talked about yesterday or going for a clan based structure versus

00:33:30.940 a deontological structure, like a group pride versus following a set of rules matters in terms

00:33:37.580 of fertility rate. I actually think the key to all of this is his second observation, which he goes

00:33:44.780 into a lot more data about, but unfortunately it comes from a lot of personal observations of family

00:33:49.560 members and stuff like that. So I can't go too deep into all of that, but that within the Mormon

00:33:55.120 culture, the people who have clan based moral frameworks appear to be able to maintain really

00:34:03.800 high fertility rates. And the people who don't have clan based moral frameworks, the people have

00:34:08.800 communalist based moral frameworks have, are the ones whose moral or whose fertility is collapsing.

00:34:13.680 And it makes perfect sense that the communalists would cluster at the edge of the, the fives and

00:34:19.680 sixes in terms of being the most Mormons and the clanners would concentrate in the threes and fours.

00:34:26.800 So to understand what I mean by the difference between a clan based moral system and a, a, a

00:34:31.520 communalist based moral system, and we're contrasting these with individualist based moral systems

00:34:35.680 because people often make a mistake. They're like, you're either an individualist or you're a

00:34:38.960 communalist. It's like, no, there's actually three moral systems, clan based individualist and

00:34:43.520 communalist. So if I ask a clan based moral system in the person, like what, who are you? Right.

00:34:52.320 Their first thought is I am a member of my clan. So if I was going to explain this and we'll go into

00:34:57.240 this a lot more tomorrow, uh, somebody said, Hey Malcolm, you know, like when I was growing up,

00:35:02.820 how were morals taught to me? I was never taught things in terms of like moral absolutism. Like this

00:35:07.580 is a good or a bad thing to do. It was, you are a Collins and this is what is expected of Collinses.

00:35:14.380 Collinses have, and it was, it was taught to me as if Collinses have a stricter and higher moral

00:35:19.920 standard expected of them than the general population. And that the general population is 0.81

00:35:23.840 just basically degenerates and you shouldn't expect anything of them. Generally, if somebody is in one of

00:35:30.680 these clan based moral systems, the fear is falling into the communalist based moral system.

00:35:36.740 So to explain what I mean by that, you know, growing up, I was taught, well, you're a Collins

00:35:40.700 and these are the things expected of Collinses. And I would, you know, see all of my wider family

00:35:45.340 achieving these things. And my fear was if I didn't achieve those things, well, then I'm not a Collins

00:35:51.920 anymore. I'm just a, you know, if I was a Mormon, I'm just a regular Mormon now. Now there are two ways

00:35:57.400 that you can, if you're a Mormon, teach moral systems to people, right? You could be the communalist

00:36:03.660 and say, you are a Mormon and this is what Mormons do, okay? Or you could say, you are a Collins

00:36:14.220 who happens to be a Mormon, like the Collinses are a type of Mormon, and this is what Collinses do.

00:36:20.660 So why would this, this clan based thing lead to a more centralized position on the religiosity scale?

00:36:27.120 It's because if you primarily identify with Mormonism instead of your family tradition,

00:36:31.720 then you're just going to follow everything the church says. Everything the church says is what

00:36:35.780 you follow. So you're going to fall at the extreme end of the religious spectrum. But if you are first 0.97

00:36:41.580 a Collins, well, we're Collinses break Mormon rules or where you're allowed to break moral rules

00:36:46.660 and where you should have stricter rules. And so that makes perfect sense. You know, for example,

00:36:51.880 if you look at a lot of these clan based Mormons, they'll, they'll be a little looser on like how 0.99

00:36:57.560 they wear their undergarments and stuff like that, where they'll hike it up a bit more. And it's

00:37:03.180 like, okay, well, that's technically not being ultra religious, but if your cousins are doing it and

00:37:09.300 they're still considered home for family, and I should note one thing about clan based systems that

00:37:13.800 people who didn't grow up in this point, I know is they're really quick to throw someone out.

00:37:18.820 So when I look at like my wider cousin group, and I'm like, I always compare myself to family,

00:37:24.060 that's where I'm judging myself. Like, am I doing a good job in life? How should I be approaching,

00:37:29.380 you know, what success is defined? What basic ethical constraints am I dealing with? When one of them

00:37:37.200 doesn't perform up to family standards, I just sort of stop using them as one of the measures of

00:37:43.280 comparison that I have access to. And I suspect that's the way these Mormon clans work as well,

00:37:50.080 which is what prevents them from dropping off as quickly. If somebody leaves the church or stops

00:37:54.800 following tons of rules, and clearly no longer acting according with the clans like moral system,

00:38:00.860 you stop using them as somebody to judge yourself off of.

00:38:03.940 And so they don't end up pulling you down. And in tomorrow's video, we're going to get really into

00:38:12.780 why clan based systems are so super, super resistant to fertility collapse, and why communalist

00:38:19.320 systems like Romans, you can immediately see why communalist systems are so susceptible to fertility

00:38:23.980 collapse, because you are always going to be affected by outside culture if you are a communalist.

00:38:29.800 Yeah, well, and so if your outside culture becomes infected or toxic, you're more likely. So

00:38:37.340 essentially, there's there's less there's less quarantining. So if there is a cultural infection

00:38:42.020 that is sterilizing, you will not be protected from it. Whereas if you're if you're in a clan based

00:38:47.240 culture, you may survive it because you're isolated sufficiently. Yeah, I think that there's a

00:38:54.560 secondary thing here, which is genetic. And this is again, as many people know, I think people make the

00:38:59.360 mistake of assuming that human psychological profiles, human psychological profiles are

00:39:04.360 clearly genetically correlated. Like we've seen this in the data over and over again, it's like 60%.

00:39:08.580 But people make the mistake of assuming that genetically correlated means falling into ethnic

00:39:13.040 buckets, instead of falling into very recent selection events, i.e. immigration waves, stuff like

00:39:19.120 that, which is actually where a lot more of the concentration happens. So to word this a different

00:39:25.240 way, I think I remember from my old psychology classes, it was around a quarter of people

00:39:30.300 experienced some form of auditory hallucination. Now Mormons regularly will ask God what they should 1.00

00:39:37.660 do in specific circumstances. So speaking to God is a regular thing that most Mormons do.

00:39:43.720 Now, if I am living by a Mormon community, whether I am, you know, black or Hispanic or anything like

00:39:49.860 that, and I happen to be subject to auditory hallucinations, and a Mormon says, well, if you're 0.88

00:39:56.200 not sure what religion you should be, why don't you just ask God? I am going to be dramatically more

00:40:00.900 likely to convert to Mormonism if I have this genetic script for auditory hallucinations, which

00:40:05.860 means that this can concentrate super, super fast in a population like Mormons or Quakers when other 1.00

00:40:12.520 populations may not have it much at all. And if I am a Mormon who doesn't experience these auditory

00:40:18.140 hallucinations, and I keep trying to talk to God and he never responds, I might be much more likely

00:40:22.580 to deconvert. And that's how you can get these genetic clusters occurring really, really quickly.

00:40:28.760 But then this also would happen with something like a communalist mindset or a clan-based mindset.

00:40:32.680 If a specific group of Mormons really leans into communalist-based ways of thinking, they are going

00:40:38.900 to disproportionately convert people, whatever their ethnic or cultural background, that lean more

00:40:44.200 communalist around them. However, having a genetic propensity for communalism can cause a really

00:40:49.960 negative side effect, which we talked about earlier, which is once you deconvert, well, now what's your

00:40:55.520 new communalist source of information? It's the urban monoculture. And that's why this would explain 0.93

00:41:01.200 why the most extremely religious Mormons, when they deconvert, become the most extremely woke 0.95

00:41:06.180 individuals. Whereas clan-based people, when they deconvert, they're still moderated by their clan.

00:41:12.640 They might have deconverted, but they're still a Collins. You know, they're still looking to the

00:41:16.700 clan for a sort of core moral centering. Finally, I note here is that I suspect that people with a

00:41:24.360 genetic predilection towards a communalist moral framework, even if they are like Mormon-Mormon,

00:41:30.400 i.e. they want to be as Mormon as possible, they are going to be subconsciously influenced by the

00:41:38.180 urban monoculture, given how much it dominates our society, much more than somebody who has been

00:41:44.000 genetically selected intergenerationally for a clan-based moral framework. And so I think if you

00:41:50.200 have been for a few generations in a communalist culture versus a clan-based culture, the genetic

00:41:57.980 correlates that you're going to be selecting for are going to be the ones that look to society

00:42:04.780 around you to try to determine the social norms that you're setting for yourself. And these people

00:42:09.740 who used to only be surrounded by Mormons, now in terms of the images that they're seeing and the

00:42:15.100 media they're seeing, are just going to see more non-Mormons and be comfortable correlating themselves 0.51

00:42:22.140 with those individuals. Also, they were motivating their moral behavior through what they saw in,

00:42:29.660 what's the word I'm looking for here? Like deontological rule sets.

00:42:32.540 Right?

00:42:34.780 And those deontological rule sets, they are no longer at play right now. And so,

00:42:43.980 well, when I say they're no longer at play, they're no longer strong enough to overcome the urban

00:42:48.060 monoculture.

00:42:48.780 Well, they're no longer protective. I think what you're saying is they're no longer protective.

00:42:52.940 And there were environments in which they were, probably. And if they are not adapted

00:42:58.300 in the face of new technology and globalization and other elements that render old rules ineffective,

00:43:06.060 then yeah, they won't matter anymore.

00:43:07.820 And clan-based moral systems are primarily motivated by pride.

00:43:11.100 Yeah. Well, and I would say they're more adaptable in the end, because most clan-based systems,

00:43:16.780 which I imagine you will discuss more later, are, they reward the successful family members who then

00:43:22.940 dictate the future of the clan's culture. Meaning that people can adapt and those who do adapt to

00:43:29.020 changes and to technological progress are going to help the culture iterate. Right?

00:43:36.780 Yeah, they adapt much faster. And think about it. Like, within a clan-based moral system,

00:43:41.820 and he was noting this in other emails to me, that they've gone way more technophilic

00:43:46.620 than the deontological communalist Mormons who are at the extremist end of their religion.

00:43:51.660 These individuals have not become all coders and everything like that, whereas the clan-based people

00:43:57.020 have. And I think it's because they genuinely are motivated by wanting to be better than other

00:44:05.020 people, like have their clan be better than other clans and other people and stuff like that, and

00:44:10.220 pride in their individual clans. So if they see a societal arbitrage opportunity, like engaging with

00:44:16.380 technology, they're going to do it. Whereas the other community is just not going to do it as quickly.

00:44:21.420 They're like, well, is this what our people have always done? You know, whereas a clan-based

00:44:26.380 person will be like, well, my cousin, who I know is a devout Mormon, is currently working in crypto.

00:44:31.820 Therefore, it's okay to work in crypto. My cousin, who's a devout Mormon, is currently working in AI

00:44:37.100 tech, so I can go work in AI tech. Like, now that's on the table because everyone in our family is

00:44:42.300 talking about him with a lot of respect. With the deontological group, you're not going to get that

00:44:47.180 adaptation as quickly. I wanted to add a comment from our Discord where somebody made a really good

00:44:53.020 point in one of them, Yissier, who said, clan structures correlating with high fertility is a good

00:44:58.300 point. Of the countries outside of Africa, the ones with the highest fertility today have the

00:45:02.300 strongest clan structures, whether Iraq, Yemen, Afghanistan, or the Central Asian Stan countries.

00:45:08.140 The countries in Africa with the highest fertility are also those with the strongest clan structures,

00:45:12.700 like Somalia, for example. It would also explain why Muslim countries with weaker or no clan structures

00:45:17.580 like Iran have lower fertility. That being said, I think the strength of clan structure is heavily

00:45:22.780 tied to urbanization, and the more urbanized a country gets, the weaker the clan grows.

00:45:27.660 Most of the previously mentioned countries with strong clans are still very rural and poor. As they

00:45:32.380 get richer and more urban, the clan structures might weaken. In East Asia, there used to be

00:45:37.260 a stronger clan structure with every family having a shrine dedicated to their ancestors,

00:45:42.380 but they went into significant decline about a century ago with modernization slash industrialization.

00:45:47.420 Also, there are different types of clan systems, one where people mostly marry outside of their clan,

00:45:52.460 and one where people mostly marry inside of their clan. The traditional East Asian model,

00:45:56.140 which includes Mongols, would be to marry outside your clan. This is also how it was done in 0.68

00:46:01.100 Scotland. Not sure if it would be the same in Appalachia, but I'd assume since they're descended 1.00

00:46:05.660 from the Scotch-Irish. And yes, it was true. It's outside your family marriage tradition. In most clans 0.96

00:46:11.660 in the Muslim world, on the other hand, it is more common to marry within your clan. Not sure if one 0.99

00:46:16.380 would correlate more with high fertility than the other. It seems that marrying within your own clan does,

00:46:21.420 but this could just be because the cultures that do this are poorer and more rural.

00:46:26.860 Here, I wanted to note my response to this. My disagreement would be that East Asia was really

00:46:31.740 a clan-based moral system. It has always been fairly communalist, with the cultural norms coming

00:46:37.340 not from the family, but from the central courts. Yes, superficially you worshipped your family,

00:46:42.380 but you cared what Outsider thought an awful lot.

00:46:47.740 What do you think, Octavian? What do you want in who you make a mommy for your kids? 0.90

00:46:56.700 Indy.

00:46:57.100 You want Indy? You want to marry Indy? That's your sister. 1.00

00:47:03.260 No, you treat Indy like your little sister.

00:47:06.220 Obviously, we've never sat down with Octavian yet and explained that you don't marry your siblings,

00:47:11.340 but I actually think this answer shows a very instinctual sort of clan identity that he,

00:47:16.540 when he was trying to choose who is the best woman I know of around my age, he's not choosing

00:47:22.940 like a fictional character from one of the shows he watches, but he's like, oh, my sister, that's

00:47:27.580 the best a woman can be. And so I thought it was a very sweet answer, but one that also sort of

00:47:31.980 illustrates that there might be a genetic component to this, because obviously we didn't teach him

00:47:36.140 that. That would be a very bad thing if we had taught him that. Octavian, Octavian, can you tell

00:47:41.740 our listeners that we should, they should like and subscribe? Then do it.

00:47:48.780 You're a silly goofus. I love you, buddy. 1.00

00:47:57.980 What are you doing?

00:48:02.140 Do you think the audience likes to look at you spin? You got to say things.

00:48:05.180 You're not saying like and subscribe. You're not saying like and subscribe.

00:48:18.380 You're not saying like and subscribe.

00:48:19.820 I'll leave him with you while I go get the other kids. Thanks.

00:48:31.980 Okay.

00:48:32.620 I have a favor. Can you tell us to get the crowd for me?

00:48:36.700 Okay, we'll do. Here. Anyway, I absolutely love you, Simone. You are amazing. We got these

00:48:42.140 two episodes done pretty quickly, so we can start on the next one if you want, or we can do dinner early.

00:48:47.900 If I need more sleep, let's do dinner early.

00:48:51.420 Let's do dinner early and put the kids. You're actually going to put them to bed early. You're 0.92

00:48:54.540 not going to be in bed. Well, yeah, if I have an easier and earlier start time and they're eating

00:48:58.060 when they get home instead of, you know, after I'm done prepping.

00:49:02.860 By the way, one thing I'd love it if you could begin taking out for me is sawing some of those kebabs.

00:49:08.940 Yeah, we actually, I'll walk you through what we have in the deep freezer because I found

00:49:13.420 some artisanal Amish meats.

00:49:18.220 Oh, what types?

00:49:19.180 Yeah, I will show you.

00:49:21.260 You've got to enjoy. They're high quality. They're what an esteemed guest had accidentally

00:49:26.620 left behind and said was all ours because he wasn't going to come back and get them, so.

00:49:30.300 Oh, what are they?

00:49:32.220 I will show you. You will have to see.

00:49:36.700 The audience is going to want to know. We're recording right now.

00:49:40.540 Well, I think some of it's Amish chicken because, you know, that's what you get in 1.00

00:49:44.300 restaurants. I think some of it might be some sausage and I think there are two salmon patties,

00:49:49.100 if memory serves, but I actually didn't look that closely because it hurts my hands to hold

00:49:54.220 them when they're out of the bottom of the freezer like that.

00:49:56.780 Okay, well, let's hear it with kebabs, okay? Those things don't sound that appealing to me. 1.00

00:50:00.700 You know, I don't really like chicken or salmon.

00:50:02.940 All right.

00:50:03.820 And for tonight, I guess we're doing pasta again, right?

00:50:07.020 We don't have to. You can, you can do, I think the kebabs are probably ready to go out of the...

00:50:13.500 Oh, really?

00:50:14.060 Yeah, do you want to do kebabs tonight?

00:50:16.140 I'd love to do a kebab with like mixed vegetables or potatoes. Let's do the potatoes and kebabs. 0.63

00:50:22.220 There's only a tiny bit of potatoes left. So how about sautéed vegetables and potatoes and kebabs?

00:50:27.980 Or do you want your street corn, your Mexican street corn?

00:50:31.260 Oh, Mexican street corn, vegetables and kebabs.

00:50:34.860 Let's do potatoes, street corn and kebabs. 0.84

00:50:38.140 Oh, all of them. Okay, just...

00:50:39.740 Well, no, take out the mixed vegetables. Just do the potatoes and the corn to finish off the potatoes.

00:50:43.420 So you just want carbs and... Okay, yeah.

00:50:45.260 Oh, no. Okay, okay, okay. Veggies.

00:50:47.100 You get a veggie, you get a carb, and you get a protein. Veggies, potato, and kebabs. Let's kill

00:50:53.100 the potatoes to get something done in the fridge. Okay, I love you. Ow, I love you. I love you. I'm

00:50:58.380 sorry I'd be annoying. You're never annoying. You're perfect. You're perfect. Ow, okay.

00:51:03.580 Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:51:07.740 I can't, why can't I move you? You're not moving. There, oh, thank you. Oh, gosh. Hold on.

00:51:14.300 I saw a really funny Babel on Bee article. Okay.

00:51:18.780 Rashid Tlaib uninjured after her pager mysteriously explodes.

00:51:25.260 Oh, no. That was, I, I, I, like, do we, do we need to do an episode on that event? Because that

00:51:31.500 was so cool that they pulled that off. Incredible spy movie stuff. I, I feel like maybe we need more

00:51:37.420 information first, but what an incredible feat of intelligence. I might, after, like, all the

00:51:41.980 information that's come out, do one of these things where I try to create, like, the most

00:51:44.700 comprehensive source on a particular subject on the internet. That would be great, because I,

00:51:47.740 I want to watch that. I want to know everything about this. Because that was, wow, I cannot believe

00:51:54.300 to pull that off. All right. Yeah. Let me get started. I guess, wait, you would have to own

00:51:59.420 the largest pager manufacturer in the Middle East, like, or several, theoretically?

00:52:06.460 Um, no. So it appears, I, I don't want to explain it because I actually read into this in detail

00:52:12.940 already. Okay. Yeah, no spoilers. The idea of how it was pulled off.

Based Camp - September 27, 2024

Why Are the Most Religious Mormons No Longer Having the Most Kids？ (This Changes Everything)

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