Based Camp - May 21, 2024


Why Burn Books When Nobody Reads？ (Stats on Reading)


Episode Stats


Length

31 minutes

Words per minute

188.62238

Word count

5,924

Sentence count

293

Harmful content

Misogyny

5

sentences flagged

Toxicity

9

sentences flagged

Hate speech

5

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

A stats-heavy episode on the state of books in America, and why only 854 of the top 10 bestselling books in the U.S. were written by 854 authors in 2016, according to a new report from the Pew Research Center.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 That means authors are earning roughly between $18,000 and $180,000 on a New York Times bestseller.
00:00:06.700 Keep in mind, now, these are being split with the publishing houses.
00:00:09.520 If you write a book and you get accepted and you get paid by Penguin Random House,
00:00:14.560 you have a 96% chance of selling less than 1,000 copies.
00:00:18.480 Okay, Lilian Omar from The Squad.
00:00:20.500 She has a significant social media presence with 3 million Twitter followers
00:00:23.900 and another 1.3 million on Instagram, yet her book has sold only 26,000 copies.
00:00:29.240 Piers Morgan, 8 million followers on Twitter.
00:00:32.860 In the U.S., it sold just 5,650 copies.
00:00:37.460 How are these big publishing houses staying in business?
00:00:40.980 And it is Bibles, celebrity books, like Britney Spears books, and their backlist.
00:00:47.180 It is not on things that are intellectually enriching the population.
00:00:51.020 These two market categories, celebrity books and repeated bestsellers from the backlist,
00:00:55.180 make up the entirety of the publishing industry,
00:00:58.740 and even fund their vanity project, publishing all the rest of the books we think about when we think about book publishing.
00:01:06.780 That is basically a vanity project.
00:01:09.920 How do they approach people?
00:01:11.180 What they are thinking about when they go out and approach people is,
00:01:15.000 how can I turn their pre-existing follower base into money?
00:01:20.180 Yeah, they're looking for a platform.
00:01:22.160 They only care about your platform.
00:01:23.480 And I think they're starting to realize, though, that even the platform doesn't sell.
00:01:27.180 This conversation is really relevant to people who are thinking about writing a book.
00:01:31.600 Would you like to know more?
00:01:33.000 Hello, Simone! 1.00
00:01:34.400 We are going to do a stats-heavy episode today, which I am excited about,
00:01:38.540 and I hope I ordered these stats well to make a narrative.
00:01:41.040 But it is on reading in America, the state of reading,
00:01:47.200 and what the publishing industry is turning into,
00:01:51.380 and how it's transforming the way books are being published,
00:01:55.300 the type of books that are being published, and the type of books that are being read.
00:01:59.540 So first, let's just—I'm going to do a lot of quoting here in this episode.
00:02:03.000 This is from Pew.
00:02:04.360 Almost a third of Americans don't read books at all.
00:02:06.840 And according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor and Statistics,
00:02:09.900 the ones that do spend only 16 minutes per day reading.
00:02:13.380 Compare that to the average Netflix watcher,
00:02:15.560 who spends close to three hours per day consuming video content.
00:02:19.760 At that pace, a watcher might get through 681 movies in a year,
00:02:25.200 while a reader gets through only 16 books.
00:02:29.060 And that's presuming those 15 minutes are spent reading books.
00:02:33.980 Keep in mind, it was just reading.
00:02:35.260 So that could be newspaper, that could be online content,
00:02:38.300 and goodness knows, I'd fudge those numbers.
00:02:41.720 Even this year, when leisure time increased as a result of the pandemic,
00:02:45.100 novels saw only a subtle increase in sales over last year by 2.8%.
00:02:50.180 News consumption, however, saw an increase of 215%.
00:02:54.400 Most of that time taking place on Facebook, 23 minutes per day,
00:03:00.180 Google, 14 minutes per day,
00:03:02.540 and MSN, 5 minutes per day.
00:03:04.920 So when people say news consumption, they mean Facebook and Google.
00:03:09.820 So this is highly targeted news.
00:03:12.080 Not even just like I'm picking a conservative versus progressive news show
00:03:16.440 to be my bubble of information I'm getting.
00:03:18.760 It's the news stories that are specifically tailored to my interests.
00:03:23.160 Okay, so now we're going to talk a little bit about
00:03:25.620 how few authors are actually writing the books that people are reading.
00:03:31.880 So they had created a list of the top-selling books in the U.S.
00:03:36.140 And of the 2,468 fiction books that made the list,
00:03:40.500 they were written by only 854 authors.
00:03:44.000 It's worth mentioning that 51 of those books were written by James Peterson,
00:03:49.460 31 were written by Clive Cussler,
00:03:53.140 and 25 were written by Daniel Steele.
00:03:56.440 A huge chunk is written by very few people.
00:03:59.720 And we've seen this in other stats,
00:04:01.620 in terms of how much authors sell,
00:04:03.280 like a very, very small number of books, ultimately.
00:04:06.360 Oh, we're about to get into that.
00:04:07.840 Okay.
00:04:09.000 This is bad.
00:04:10.160 This is bad.
00:04:11.920 According to the EPJ data,
00:04:14.660 96% of the fiction book sales take place in the first year,
00:04:18.400 and the majority of the New York Times best-selling books
00:04:20.320 sell between 10,000 and 100,000 copies in their first year.
00:04:24.800 Presuming the average royalty check is 12%,
00:04:27.600 and the average hardcover fiction book retails at $15,
00:04:30.800 that means authors are earning roughly between $18,000
00:04:34.120 and $180,000 on a bestseller.
00:04:37.120 This is a New York Times bestseller.
00:04:38.620 $18,000 to $180,000.
00:04:41.220 Also, writers are not being paid anything,
00:04:43.100 so why would they bother?
00:04:44.300 Keep in mind, now,
00:04:45.100 these are being split with the publishing houses,
00:04:47.320 and this is only for New York Times best-selling authors.
00:04:50.580 As a New York Times best-selling author,
00:04:52.060 you might be earning $18,000 off of that book.
00:04:55.060 Wow.
00:04:55.780 You're way better paid being a public school teacher.
00:04:57.920 People argue that, like,
00:04:59.200 teachers are not paid anything.
00:05:01.540 Well, you're splitting that with the publishers.
00:05:03.560 Yeah, when you're, like, a best-selling author.
00:05:05.280 It's so funny.
00:05:06.000 I remember the first time I met someone
00:05:08.400 who completely didn't understand
00:05:10.240 how much people actually made,
00:05:12.500 and he was telling someone
00:05:13.900 who was probably making less than he was,
00:05:15.980 he's, oh, wow, like,
00:05:16.700 I bet you have a yacht or something,
00:05:17.960 and he just had no idea
00:05:19.080 that people in the writing world don't make money.
00:05:22.700 Yeah.
00:05:23.180 When it's also true with our books,
00:05:24.680 people are always like,
00:05:25.440 why don't you publish more books
00:05:26.700 and stuff like that?
00:05:27.940 You guys must be,
00:05:28.760 why don't you use some of, like, your books money?
00:05:30.200 Like, you guys topped
00:05:30.780 the Wall Street Journal nonfiction bestseller list,
00:05:33.400 and I was like, yeah, we did.
00:05:35.400 We did.
00:05:35.840 We did top the Wall Street Journal
00:05:37.040 nonfiction bestseller list,
00:05:38.380 and they're like, what did you do?
00:05:39.500 One of my favorite things is they go,
00:05:40.720 what did you do different with that book?
00:05:42.340 Just do that again. 0.98
00:05:43.240 And I was like,
00:05:44.740 that was our least-selling book
00:05:47.140 by, like, one-fourth of the sales
00:05:49.480 of our next least-selling book.
00:05:50.000 Yeah, just make money again.
00:05:51.460 And they're like,
00:05:52.200 why did your least-selling book
00:05:54.420 top the Wall Street Journal
00:05:56.120 nonfiction bestseller list,
00:05:57.280 but none of your others did?
00:05:58.760 And the answer is simple.
00:05:59.820 All of our other books
00:06:00.800 were Amazon exclusives,
00:06:02.120 which do not qualify for that list
00:06:03.980 or the New York Times bestseller list.
00:06:05.620 The way we got on the list
00:06:07.300 was intentionally hampering
00:06:09.180 the launch of one of our books,
00:06:10.980 putting it in Barnes & Noble,
00:06:12.540 when we typically
00:06:13.700 would only list in Amazon.
00:06:15.360 And as a result,
00:06:16.560 we cannot give the book
00:06:17.820 on Kindle Unlimited
00:06:18.900 like we can all our other books.
00:06:20.700 But we were able to technically
00:06:23.040 be Wall Street Journal bestsellers.
00:06:25.180 With lower reach.
00:06:26.140 With lower reach.
00:06:27.280 With lower reach.
00:06:28.740 So we hampered our reach,
00:06:30.940 but we got the title
00:06:32.300 that I had wanted.
00:06:33.140 I wanted to be a bestseller
00:06:34.220 for my whole life.
00:06:35.140 We don't qualify for New York Times.
00:06:36.540 A lot of people don't know this.
00:06:37.320 To be a New York Times bestseller
00:06:38.760 until fairly recently,
00:06:39.960 and now they break the rules
00:06:40.940 only for like progressive aligned books.
00:06:43.120 But you have to be published
00:06:44.360 by a New York Times
00:06:45.740 based publishing house.
00:06:48.020 It's not any book.
00:06:49.220 If you self-publish,
00:06:50.300 you cannot get on that list.
00:06:51.620 And if you're not self-publishing,
00:06:53.140 you're splitting your money
00:06:54.300 with somebody else
00:06:55.240 for basically nothing.
00:06:56.960 Keep in mind that $18,000
00:06:58.320 that they're making
00:06:59.400 is being split with a publisher.
00:07:01.580 Or max around $180,000
00:07:03.260 for a normal New York Times bestseller.
00:07:05.140 That's being split with a publisher
00:07:06.200 who's taking about half.
00:07:07.360 So you're making like $90,000
00:07:09.480 per New York Times bestseller book.
00:07:11.960 And most of your books
00:07:12.760 aren't going to be that.
00:07:13.480 But let's keep going here
00:07:14.860 so we can get the idea
00:07:16.820 of what are the actual numbers
00:07:19.080 involved in sales here.
00:07:20.860 So there's a chart
00:07:21.680 I'm going to put on screen here
00:07:22.980 which shows the copies
00:07:24.700 sold in one year.
00:07:26.100 Number of print titles
00:07:27.380 that sell over a million is zero.
00:07:30.040 Number of digital titles
00:07:31.440 that sell over a million is one.
00:07:33.180 And number of audiobooks is zero.
00:07:35.040 Wow.
00:07:35.180 100,000 to one million.
00:07:37.420 Number of print titles, eight.
00:07:39.220 Number of digital titles, 10.
00:07:41.360 And number of audiobooks, six.
00:07:44.000 100,000 to half a million.
00:07:46.380 Print titles, 260.
00:07:48.380 Number of digital titles, 267.
00:07:51.040 And number of audiobooks, 111.
00:07:54.820 And something you'll start to notice
00:07:56.040 from this point in the chart on
00:07:57.500 that's really interesting
00:07:58.340 is the number of print books
00:08:00.200 and digital titles
00:08:01.160 that make it into each
00:08:01.900 of these categories
00:08:02.500 is about equal.
00:08:03.960 So you get this explosion
00:08:07.760 in the digital world
00:08:08.900 but it's really not that much
00:08:10.300 above the print world
00:08:11.220 where you get that one book
00:08:12.920 that's over a million.
00:08:13.980 10,000 to 100,000.
00:08:15.720 Print, 6.5,000.
00:08:18.040 Digital, 7,000.
00:08:19.980 Audio, 2,000.
00:08:21.600 And then 1,000 to 10,000.
00:08:23.640 Print, 57.
00:08:25.560 Digital, 75,000.
00:08:28.440 Audiobooks, 17,000.
00:08:30.320 So we're doing actually pretty good
00:08:31.640 in terms of our book sales
00:08:32.820 when you think about it.
00:08:33.780 Yeah, our book sales,
00:08:34.540 yeah, we typically do about 50,000
00:08:36.020 per book or something like that
00:08:37.360 was a lot of our books.
00:08:38.480 I think we might be over that.
00:08:39.240 No, I haven't checked in a few years.
00:08:40.520 What you're also not,
00:08:41.920 you haven't yet pointed out at least
00:08:43.500 is that the majority of these books
00:08:45.300 that are selling
00:08:46.120 are probably romance novels
00:08:47.800 or like really smutty,
00:08:49.920 not sometimes smutty,
00:08:51.020 teen fiction and stuff.
00:08:52.340 When you look at what's actually selling.
00:08:54.160 Yeah, a lot of the books
00:08:55.500 that actually sell are romance novels
00:08:56.940 or like really smutty.
00:08:58.760 When you talk with authors
00:09:00.100 about authors who actually make money,
00:09:03.100 they're romance novel writers.
00:09:05.380 So, yeah.
00:09:06.760 So I'm going to keep going
00:09:08.100 with more stats here
00:09:09.520 and we can talk more
00:09:10.180 about the industry
00:09:10.780 and what's happening.
00:09:11.240 But I want to give people an idea
00:09:12.480 of how little people
00:09:14.020 are actually reading
00:09:15.140 as we go into this.
00:09:16.320 In 2022,
00:09:17.940 Penguin Random House
00:09:18.800 wanted to buy Simon & Schuster.
00:09:20.740 The two publishing houses,
00:09:21.820 just these are coming
00:09:22.300 from like a ton of different articles.
00:09:23.800 If you want to find them,
00:09:24.680 just Google the words I'm saying.
00:09:26.000 I just tried to pull together
00:09:26.920 the most interesting quotes
00:09:27.700 from a bunch of articles on this.
00:09:28.680 The two publishing houses
00:09:29.820 made up 37% and 11%
00:09:33.020 of the marketing share
00:09:33.920 according to the filing.
00:09:35.500 And combined,
00:09:36.640 they would have condensed
00:09:38.100 the big five publishing houses
00:09:39.420 into the big four.
00:09:40.600 But the government intervened
00:09:41.920 and brought an antitrust case
00:09:43.480 against Penguin
00:09:44.260 to determine whether
00:09:45.740 that would create a monopoly.
00:09:47.360 During the trial,
00:09:48.440 the head of every major publishing house
00:09:49.980 and literary agency group
00:09:51.380 got on stand
00:09:52.280 to speak about the publishing industry
00:09:53.660 and give numbers,
00:09:54.840 giving us an eye-opening account
00:09:56.240 from the inside.
00:09:57.080 But the big five publishing houses
00:09:59.460 spent most of their money
00:10:01.060 on book advances
00:10:02.100 for big celebrities
00:10:03.040 like Britney Spears
00:10:04.060 and franchise authors
00:10:05.460 like James Patterson.
00:10:07.700 And this is the bulk
00:10:09.160 of their business.
00:10:10.140 They also sell a lot of Bibles,
00:10:12.420 repeat bestsellers
00:10:13.360 like Lord of the Rings,
00:10:14.440 and children's books
00:10:15.420 like The Very Hungry Caterpillar.
00:10:17.260 These two market categories,
00:10:19.120 celebrity books
00:10:19.740 and repeated bestsellers
00:10:20.900 from the backlist,
00:10:21.980 make up the entirety
00:10:23.540 of the publishing industry
00:10:25.200 and even fund
00:10:26.400 their vanity project
00:10:28.520 publishing all the rest
00:10:30.160 of the books
00:10:30.680 we think about
00:10:31.740 when we think
00:10:32.240 about book publishing.
00:10:33.880 That is basically
00:10:35.740 a vanity project.
00:10:37.000 And that so checks out
00:10:37.940 we have multiple copies
00:10:39.500 of The Very Hungry Caterpillar
00:10:40.780 in our house.
00:10:41.760 I tripped over one this morning.
00:10:43.320 They're just everywhere.
00:10:44.940 And then it goes on to say,
00:10:46.540 which make no money at all
00:10:48.100 and typically sell
00:10:48.900 less than a thousand copies.
00:10:50.840 I want to keep that in mind.
00:10:51.760 The entire,
00:10:52.580 what you think of
00:10:53.260 is like the literary industry.
00:10:54.520 If you're like,
00:10:55.000 if they're only making
00:10:56.180 180,000 to 20,000 a year
00:10:59.160 on New York Times bestsellers,
00:11:00.920 how are these big publishing houses
00:11:03.180 staying in business?
00:11:04.460 And it is Bibles,
00:11:06.960 celebrity books,
00:11:08.100 like Britney Spears books,
00:11:09.440 and their backlist.
00:11:10.740 It is not on things
00:11:11.820 that are intellectually
00:11:12.660 enriching the population.
00:11:14.500 Which is wild
00:11:15.120 because when you look
00:11:16.060 at libraries,
00:11:17.320 when you look at people
00:11:18.180 read in the past,
00:11:20.380 it was a different story.
00:11:21.980 The market hadn't discovered yet
00:11:24.080 that you could publish
00:11:25.140 gossip and romance
00:11:27.400 and whatnot in books.
00:11:28.640 But it's easy to think
00:11:30.180 what the old library
00:11:31.100 would used to look like.
00:11:32.440 Now people buy books
00:11:33.740 just for signaling.
00:11:34.680 There are lots of people
00:11:35.400 like YouTubers, 1.00
00:11:36.380 people with their Zoom backgrounds
00:11:37.400 with all these substantive books.
00:11:39.120 I feel like maybe now
00:11:40.860 50% or more
00:11:42.200 of the substantive,
00:11:43.800 nice hardcover books
00:11:45.180 that are being bought
00:11:46.000 literally as Zoom background
00:11:47.840 or YouTube background dressing.
00:11:49.560 Nothing more.
00:11:50.120 I wouldn't be surprised
00:11:52.040 about that at all.
00:11:53.400 And I would also
00:11:54.620 just promote books
00:11:55.860 for a second here
00:11:56.540 or even audiobooks.
00:11:57.760 Like you could be listening
00:11:58.700 to a podcast,
00:11:59.560 like the one that you're
00:12:00.140 listening to with us.
00:12:00.780 I'm not trying to lower
00:12:01.480 our listener base here,
00:12:02.840 but I'm just telling it
00:12:04.380 like it is.
00:12:04.980 Or you could be listening
00:12:05.860 to an audiobook, right?
00:12:07.820 If you are listening
00:12:08.740 to this podcast
00:12:09.540 versus one of our audiobooks,
00:12:11.300 everything on this podcast
00:12:12.360 is off the top of our heads,
00:12:14.400 okay?
00:12:14.860 Generally speaking.
00:12:15.860 Occasionally I'll do
00:12:16.500 a pre-written thing,
00:12:17.220 but those are usually
00:12:17.820 our worst performing videos.
00:12:19.080 Every single line
00:12:20.420 in our audiobook
00:12:21.180 was counter-checked
00:12:22.340 by each of us
00:12:23.060 maybe a hundred times.
00:12:25.500 Yeah.
00:12:25.840 And there's still typos.
00:12:27.140 There are still typos.
00:12:28.120 And three people
00:12:28.880 copy-edited them.
00:12:30.400 Yeah.
00:12:30.660 And what happens
00:12:31.320 when we write books,
00:12:31.980 Malcolm writes them.
00:12:33.120 I completely rewrite
00:12:34.220 every sentence
00:12:34.880 to make it more
00:12:35.800 like palatable.
00:12:37.560 Then he completely
00:12:38.620 rewrites them
00:12:39.220 because he's like,
00:12:39.700 you completely
00:12:40.100 don't understand anything.
00:12:41.580 And then I completely
00:12:42.760 rewrite them again
00:12:43.540 because I'm like,
00:12:44.220 no, this is not clear at all.
00:12:45.780 And then somewhere
00:12:46.900 in there it stops.
00:12:48.000 Maybe two more rounds later.
00:12:49.540 That is so much more work.
00:12:50.960 The number of hours
00:12:51.860 it goes into each book.
00:12:53.020 People recently
00:12:53.560 have been contacting
00:12:54.200 Malcolm and saying,
00:12:55.100 oh, it's sad
00:12:56.000 that you're not going
00:12:56.440 to write books
00:12:57.340 as much as you did before.
00:12:59.580 But when we look
00:13:00.420 at the book we're getting.
00:13:01.160 But people watch
00:13:01.900 my YouTube channel.
00:13:02.820 They don't read
00:13:03.620 the books that much.
00:13:04.780 Yeah.
00:13:05.100 And a lot of people
00:13:05.920 in this podcast
00:13:06.700 is really relevant
00:13:07.540 to what we're discussing now.
00:13:09.220 That is to say
00:13:09.680 this conversation
00:13:10.280 is really relevant
00:13:11.200 to people who are thinking
00:13:12.620 about writing a book.
00:13:13.900 One of the early podcasts
00:13:15.300 that Spencer Greenberg did
00:13:16.760 on Queer Thinking
00:13:17.500 with Spencer Greenberg,
00:13:18.500 his podcast,
00:13:19.220 was interviewing someone
00:13:20.060 who really had
00:13:20.640 this strong theory
00:13:21.580 that we have passed an age
00:13:24.700 at which books made sense.
00:13:26.500 And if you want
00:13:27.660 to actually reach someone
00:13:28.680 with a message,
00:13:29.340 as much as it seems wrong,
00:13:32.840 because it doesn't seem
00:13:33.860 as intellectual,
00:13:34.560 it doesn't seem
00:13:35.020 as prestigious,
00:13:35.940 you really should be
00:13:37.360 engaging with people
00:13:39.140 on different formats.
00:13:40.440 But I think the question
00:13:41.260 is on what format
00:13:42.380 is should you be
00:13:44.020 engaging with people?
00:13:44.900 Because, for example,
00:13:45.860 engaging with people
00:13:47.080 on Twitter,
00:13:47.580 we found Twitter
00:13:48.200 doesn't really convert.
00:13:49.200 Twitter doesn't really
00:13:49.820 change minds.
00:13:50.880 We found that YouTube
00:13:51.700 does change minds
00:13:52.780 and we do think
00:13:53.620 it's really meaningful
00:13:54.400 and found that podcasts
00:13:55.400 are the same.
00:13:56.300 So you have to be thoughtful
00:13:57.300 about where you are,
00:13:58.940 but books should not be on.
00:14:01.980 Yeah.
00:14:02.240 And before I go further
00:14:03.220 with the stats,
00:14:03.960 I think you make
00:14:04.560 a good point there.
00:14:05.260 Like we could get
00:14:06.020 broader reach potentially
00:14:07.260 by trying to do something
00:14:08.760 like TikTok
00:14:09.260 or Instagram shorts,
00:14:11.060 but we're not reaching
00:14:12.780 people in the right
00:14:13.540 mental space
00:14:14.640 to engage them.
00:14:16.760 I don't care
00:14:17.500 about being famous.
00:14:19.020 I care about changing mind.
00:14:20.540 That's the point
00:14:21.360 of all of this,
00:14:21.960 to helping people
00:14:22.540 think deeper,
00:14:23.740 think more,
00:14:24.420 and understand
00:14:24.980 their world better.
00:14:26.400 Everything,
00:14:27.240 like it wouldn't matter
00:14:28.280 if I was just in front
00:14:29.480 of a bunch of people.
00:14:30.480 Like that's not
00:14:31.020 interesting to me.
00:14:32.340 And so YouTube seems
00:14:33.840 to be the perfect medium
00:14:34.920 for this,
00:14:35.860 but you have to do
00:14:36.980 the type of content
00:14:37.760 we're doing on YouTube.
00:14:38.660 You have to have
00:14:38.980 a really heavy
00:14:39.740 upload schedule
00:14:40.760 which we have,
00:14:41.980 but it prevents
00:14:42.660 superscripted stuff
00:14:43.620 from us.
00:14:44.240 Yeah, exactly.
00:14:46.200 Unless we were
00:14:46.680 to start a different
00:14:47.300 channel for it,
00:14:48.000 but I don't even know
00:14:48.540 if that's something
00:14:49.120 I want to engage in.
00:14:50.360 But okay,
00:14:50.700 to go further
00:14:51.220 with the quotes here,
00:14:52.240 because this is actually
00:14:53.200 really interesting stuff.
00:14:54.700 Okay, so Madeline McIntosh, 0.52
00:14:56.060 CEO of Penguin Random House
00:14:57.420 US in 2020,
00:14:59.660 only 268 titles
00:15:01.960 sold more than
00:15:02.780 100,000 copies
00:15:03.760 and 96%
00:15:05.780 of all the books
00:15:06.980 they publish
00:15:07.640 sold less than
00:15:08.600 1,000 copies.
00:15:09.400 That's still
00:15:11.040 the vibe.
00:15:13.220 Oh, you're so sweet
00:15:14.360 to the little one.
00:15:15.640 Simone, just so you
00:15:16.620 register that,
00:15:17.600 I want to run that
00:15:18.240 by you again.
00:15:18.920 Of Penguin Random House,
00:15:20.300 okay,
00:15:21.020 of all of the books
00:15:22.980 they sold,
00:15:24.080 only 268
00:15:26.460 sold more than
00:15:27.440 100,000 copies
00:15:28.540 with 96%.
00:15:31.820 So if you write a book
00:15:33.000 and you get accepted
00:15:34.020 and you get paid
00:15:35.100 by Penguin Random House,
00:15:36.180 you have a 96%
00:15:38.600 chance of selling
00:15:39.360 less than 1,000 copies.
00:15:42.340 Like when we talk
00:15:43.060 about how small-
00:15:43.840 That's worse than
00:15:44.000 venture capital,
00:15:44.800 isn't it?
00:15:46.320 Yeah, when we talk
00:15:47.320 about how small
00:15:48.160 these numbers are,
00:15:49.960 so if you want
00:15:51.080 to contrast that
00:15:52.160 with suppose
00:15:52.800 some of our videos,
00:15:53.920 right?
00:15:54.800 Okay, yesterday
00:15:55.680 we had a video
00:15:56.900 that already today
00:15:58.260 is,
00:15:58.920 that went live,
00:15:59.820 is at 8,000 views,
00:16:01.720 over 8,000 views.
00:16:02.900 The day before that
00:16:04.080 we have a video
00:16:04.880 that's now
00:16:05.480 at 22,000 views.
00:16:07.120 So those are some
00:16:07.800 of our better
00:16:08.300 performing videos,
00:16:09.600 but that's,
00:16:10.700 daily we are
00:16:11.780 producing something
00:16:12.580 that is getting
00:16:13.160 more purchases
00:16:15.020 or watches
00:16:16.500 than a book.
00:16:17.600 So we can look
00:16:18.080 at the one
00:16:18.440 that went live today
00:16:19.380 that is not
00:16:20.000 like a very,
00:16:21.000 it's a particularly
00:16:22.320 poor performing episode
00:16:23.520 because I put effort
00:16:24.620 into it,
00:16:24.960 the levels of thinking
00:16:25.560 episode.
00:16:26.440 So that's an 8 of 10
00:16:27.600 of our last 10 episodes
00:16:28.880 we've released,
00:16:29.340 so it's near the bottom
00:16:30.160 of our episodes.
00:16:30.820 But it's already
00:16:32.260 just today
00:16:33.160 at 1.5,000 views.
00:16:35.460 And people should be like,
00:16:36.220 oh, that's just a number
00:16:36.980 of people who clicked on it,
00:16:37.960 they're not necessarily
00:16:38.620 watching it a long time.
00:16:39.840 The average person
00:16:40.780 viewing that episode
00:16:41.500 is watching for 17
00:16:42.760 and a half minutes.
00:16:44.340 So that's pretty
00:16:45.540 deep watching.
00:16:47.080 That's not just,
00:16:48.160 if you're going to reach
00:16:48.740 people with intellectual content,
00:16:50.020 this is just not the way
00:16:51.360 to do it,
00:16:51.920 books anymore.
00:16:53.040 And then here's
00:16:53.720 an interview with her.
00:16:54.940 Question,
00:16:55.720 do you know
00:16:56.460 approximately how many
00:16:57.520 authors there are
00:16:58.220 across the industry
00:16:59.040 with 500,000 units
00:17:00.880 or more during
00:17:01.660 this four-year period?
00:17:03.100 My understanding
00:17:04.060 is that it was
00:17:04.800 about 50.
00:17:10.560 And I should point out
00:17:11.960 here that we are
00:17:12.420 small-time YouTubers,
00:17:13.820 like small-time YouTubers.
00:17:14.980 We're like 12,000 subscribers
00:17:18.040 or something like that,
00:17:19.140 right?
00:17:19.360 That we are out
00:17:20.200 96% of authors
00:17:22.080 who go through
00:17:22.740 multiple rounds
00:17:23.320 of editing,
00:17:24.140 get accepted
00:17:24.780 by a major publishing house,
00:17:26.380 et cetera,
00:17:26.800 et cetera,
00:17:27.180 et cetera,
00:17:27.440 is insane.
00:17:29.100 Question,
00:17:29.860 50 authors
00:17:30.480 across the publishing industry
00:17:31.880 who during this
00:17:33.180 four-year period
00:17:33.900 sold more than
00:17:34.700 500,000 units
00:17:35.840 in a single year?
00:17:36.820 Yes.
00:17:37.660 They were incredulous.
00:17:39.360 The DOJ's lawyer
00:17:40.440 collected data
00:17:41.280 on 58,000 titles
00:17:43.380 published in a year
00:17:45.240 and discovered
00:17:45.800 that 90% of them
00:17:46.880 sold fewer than
00:17:47.640 2,000 copies
00:17:48.420 and 50% sold
00:17:49.860 less than a dozen copies.
00:17:51.540 Ouch.
00:17:51.940 90%.
00:17:52.620 Oh, God.
00:17:53.860 Okay, so next.
00:17:54.600 75% of our acquisitions
00:17:56.900 come from approaching
00:17:57.860 celebrities,
00:17:58.700 politicians,
00:17:59.460 athletes,
00:18:00.060 the quote-unquote
00:18:00.560 celebrity adjacent,
00:18:01.700 et cetera.
00:18:02.400 That way we can
00:18:03.200 control the content.
00:18:04.100 We are approaching
00:18:04.780 authors and celebrities
00:18:05.700 and politicians
00:18:06.200 and athletes for ideas.
00:18:07.640 So it's really
00:18:08.360 we are on the lookout.
00:18:09.600 We are scouts
00:18:10.220 in a lot of ways.
00:18:11.600 Jennifer Bergstrom,
00:18:12.780 SVP,
00:18:13.920 Gallery Books Group.
00:18:15.560 Top-selling authors
00:18:16.500 were defined
00:18:18.100 as those receiving
00:18:19.360 advances,
00:18:20.160 i.e.
00:18:20.500 guaranteed money,
00:18:21.560 in excess
00:18:22.260 of $250,000.
00:18:24.140 Far fewer than
00:18:25.100 1% of authors
00:18:26.080 receive advances
00:18:26.920 over that mark.
00:18:28.360 Publishers Marketplace,
00:18:29.380 which tracks these things,
00:18:30.820 recorded 233 such deals
00:18:33.000 in all of 2020.
00:18:34.840 So I'm going to go over
00:18:36.140 some of these categories
00:18:36.800 and then we're going to talk
00:18:37.500 about what this does
00:18:38.380 to readers
00:18:38.920 and what this does
00:18:39.700 to the publishing industry
00:18:40.740 more broadly.
00:18:41.860 Category 1
00:18:42.860 led to titles
00:18:43.680 with a sales goal
00:18:44.680 of 75,000 units
00:18:46.360 and up.
00:18:47.400 And advent
00:18:47.880 for something of that
00:18:49.480 is around half a million.
00:18:51.300 Titles with a sales goal
00:18:52.420 of 25,000 to 75,000 units
00:18:54.720 get in advance
00:18:55.800 of 150,000 to a million.
00:18:58.000 Titles with a sales goal
00:18:59.540 of 10,000 to 25,000 units
00:19:02.500 get in advance
00:19:03.040 of actually 50,000
00:19:03.820 to 150,000 dollars.
00:19:05.040 It's much more
00:19:05.640 than you'd expect
00:19:06.300 given how little
00:19:06.960 they're making.
00:19:07.960 You can really see
00:19:08.740 what they mean
00:19:09.480 by this is a pet project.
00:19:11.460 Titles with a sales goal
00:19:12.560 of 5,000 to 10,000 units.
00:19:14.460 So imagine one of our
00:19:15.360 episodes had 5,000 watches.
00:19:16.860 We would consider
00:19:17.340 that like nothing, right?
00:19:18.840 This is the goal for them.
00:19:20.180 They're getting an advance
00:19:21.360 of 50,000 dollars.
00:19:23.220 They said 50,000 or less
00:19:24.380 but that's still pretty good.
00:19:26.340 Yeah, it is.
00:19:27.680 And I love the author here
00:19:28.820 is, is anyone else alarmed
00:19:30.740 that the top tier
00:19:32.020 of book sales projections
00:19:33.460 is only 75,000 units and up?
00:19:36.020 Like one post on subtext
00:19:37.960 gets more views than that.
00:19:39.640 Yeah, I think
00:19:40.160 but what you need
00:19:40.840 to look at this as
00:19:41.780 is the number of people
00:19:43.240 willing to put down money
00:19:44.440 to consume someone's ideas.
00:19:46.560 So it's investing
00:19:47.320 both money and time.
00:19:48.260 So really what you should
00:19:49.080 be looking at
00:19:49.680 is paid subsac subscribers
00:19:51.540 as an equivalent
00:19:52.640 or paid Patreon followers
00:19:54.360 or paid YouTube subscribers
00:19:56.700 or people who leave
00:19:57.660 super thanks on YouTube
00:19:58.780 because there is a difference
00:20:01.620 with books.
00:20:02.860 People are putting down money
00:20:04.380 in addition to time
00:20:05.420 with streaming
00:20:06.460 and podcasts
00:20:07.500 and Twitter
00:20:08.620 whatever you might have there.
00:20:10.260 It's people only investing time.
00:20:12.780 So I would give
00:20:13.700 a little bit of a premium
00:20:14.720 to publishing
00:20:15.300 but it's still
00:20:16.040 a lot less.
00:20:17.860 And here you're going
00:20:18.760 to hear the sad news.
00:20:19.900 There are plenty of books
00:20:20.620 that we spent
00:20:21.100 so this is coming
00:20:21.660 from Madeline McIntosh
00:20:22.620 the CEO of Penguin Random House.
00:20:24.120 There are plenty of books
00:20:25.320 that we spend
00:20:26.460 one million on the advance
00:20:27.920 and published them last year
00:20:29.360 and they did not even make it
00:20:30.500 into the top 1,000 books
00:20:31.640 on BookScan.
00:20:32.640 Less than 45%
00:20:34.380 of those books
00:20:35.160 the books we spend
00:20:35.700 a million dollars on
00:20:36.560 end up in the
00:20:37.400 thousand bestseller list.
00:20:39.380 So less than half
00:20:41.060 of the books
00:20:41.500 they're giving
00:20:41.800 these million dollar advances
00:20:42.760 to are even making it
00:20:43.780 into the top
00:20:44.240 thousand bestselling books.
00:20:45.300 And to be clear
00:20:46.900 we have regularly
00:20:47.800 made it into the top
00:20:48.660 thousand bestselling books.
00:20:49.760 It is not hard
00:20:51.020 to get into that.
00:20:51.580 To get into the top
00:20:52.240 thousand bestselling books
00:20:53.320 you need to sell
00:20:55.160 like 10,000 copies
00:20:56.920 I think
00:20:57.640 or something around there.
00:20:58.800 It's really not that hard.
00:20:59.960 5,000 copies
00:21:00.640 I think
00:21:01.040 on the launch months.
00:21:03.280 Okay, sorry.
00:21:04.120 According to Hill
00:21:05.100 85% of the books
00:21:06.260 with advances
00:21:06.780 of a quarter million
00:21:08.220 and up
00:21:09.040 never earn out
00:21:10.280 their advance.
00:21:11.200 85% aren't earning
00:21:12.300 out their advance.
00:21:12.880 The entire royalty
00:21:15.080 is made by the books
00:21:15.740 so they're never getting
00:21:16.340 any royalties
00:21:16.920 anything like that
00:21:17.720 those authors.
00:21:18.920 Even celebrities
00:21:19.940 though sometimes
00:21:20.520 you think it's going
00:21:21.140 to be a big bestseller
00:21:21.960 flops.
00:21:23.040 Andrew Cuomo's book
00:21:24.640 was sold at the height
00:21:26.280 of his being
00:21:27.020 America's governor
00:21:27.940 during COVID crisis.
00:21:29.480 That book was sold
00:21:30.500 for 5 million
00:21:31.300 I believe.
00:21:32.220 I don't know for a fact
00:21:33.040 but at the time
00:21:34.120 it came out
00:21:34.960 the nursing home
00:21:36.040 scandal had happened
00:21:37.120 the Me Too issues
00:21:38.320 and the book
00:21:38.980 didn't do any business.
00:21:39.940 Sometimes it's just
00:21:41.500 a timing issue
00:21:42.260 like Marie Kondo.
00:21:44.000 She did a book 0.85
00:21:44.800 about joy at work
00:21:46.300 and making your office
00:21:47.420 sparked with joy
00:21:49.040 because it's not cluttered.
00:21:50.740 It published
00:21:51.240 March of 2020.
00:21:52.700 That was a literary agent
00:21:53.900 talking about that.
00:21:55.000 Having a lot of
00:21:56.400 social media followers
00:21:57.740 and fame
00:21:58.680 doesn't guarantee
00:21:59.380 it will sell well.
00:22:00.360 The singer
00:22:00.740 Billie Eilish
00:22:01.540 despite her
00:22:02.120 97 million
00:22:03.600 Instagram followers
00:22:04.680 and 6 million
00:22:06.040 Twitter followers
00:22:06.780 only sold
00:22:07.820 64,000 copies
00:22:09.660 within 8 months
00:22:10.400 of publishing her book.
00:22:11.620 Billie Eilish
00:22:12.180 only managed
00:22:12.780 to sell
00:22:13.260 64,000 copies?
00:22:14.880 She has more fans 0.82
00:22:15.740 than that.
00:22:16.960 Right?
00:22:18.120 The singer
00:22:18.640 Justin Timberlake
00:22:19.780 sold only
00:22:20.680 100,000 copies
00:22:21.960 of his book
00:22:22.560 in 3 years
00:22:23.480 after he published it.
00:22:24.580 I guess the problem
00:22:25.320 is that these people
00:22:26.340 also did not have
00:22:27.760 salacious books
00:22:28.760 so I fall
00:22:29.660 I don't
00:22:30.060 I haven't read
00:22:31.580 many biographies
00:22:33.060 but I do
00:22:33.840 follow YouTubers
00:22:34.980 who read the biographies
00:22:36.500 and summarize them
00:22:37.420 for me
00:22:37.820 and the only reason
00:22:38.900 why they bother
00:22:39.540 is because
00:22:41.000 there's a lot of
00:22:41.540 hot goss
00:22:42.100 in those books
00:22:42.980 and it seems like
00:22:43.920 perhaps these people
00:22:44.660 didn't have that
00:22:45.240 but even that
00:22:46.140 see that's the thing
00:22:46.760 is my whole point
00:22:47.380 is also you have
00:22:48.660 to keep in mind
00:22:49.240 the number of books
00:22:50.020 being sold
00:22:50.560 are mostly
00:22:51.220 gossip,
00:22:52.380 romance,
00:22:53.140 totally not substantive
00:22:54.240 and the problem here
00:22:56.200 is that
00:22:57.180 even the not substantive
00:22:59.220 stuff that
00:22:59.900 that publishers
00:23:00.560 are like
00:23:00.900 at least this one
00:23:01.520 will make us money
00:23:02.280 it doesn't always
00:23:03.720 make them money
00:23:04.500 oh it's so sad
00:23:06.080 it's so sad
00:23:07.180 hold on
00:23:07.860 we've got more here
00:23:08.640 this one I think
00:23:10.200 is going to surprise you
00:23:10.920 Snoop Dogg's cookbook
00:23:12.600 saw a boost
00:23:14.260 during the pandemic
00:23:14.960 but he still only sold
00:23:16.460 205,000 copies
00:23:19.140 that makes sense
00:23:22.080 this whole Snoop Dogg
00:23:23.200 Martha Stewart thing
00:23:24.100 as much as I love it
00:23:25.140 is very forced
00:23:26.060 there's no audience
00:23:27.720 for that
00:23:28.240 okay you want to hear
00:23:29.280 another one
00:23:29.720 that'll probably
00:23:30.100 make you happy to hear
00:23:30.820 okay Representative
00:23:32.120 Ilyan Omar
00:23:32.860 a Democrat from Minnesota
00:23:34.100 Ilyan Omar
00:23:34.680 from the squad
00:23:35.680 whose daughter
00:23:36.480 protested at Columbia
00:23:37.840 and then became
00:23:38.460 homeless and destitute
00:23:40.320 because she was
00:23:41.120 kicked out of Barnard
00:23:42.780 okay
00:23:43.480 she's no global pop star
00:23:45.240 but she has
00:23:46.080 a significant
00:23:46.800 social media presence
00:23:47.640 with 3 million
00:23:48.260 Twitter followers
00:23:49.000 who many of those
00:23:49.640 are Democrat bots
00:23:50.500 but
00:23:50.920 and another
00:23:53.080 1.3 million
00:23:53.980 on Instagram
00:23:54.500 yet her book
00:23:55.400 This Is What America
00:23:56.280 Looks Like
00:23:56.800 My Journey
00:23:57.440 From Refugee 0.96
00:23:58.380 to Congresswoman
00:23:59.080 which was published
00:24:00.120 in 2022
00:24:00.800 has sold only
00:24:02.540 can you guess
00:24:04.080 I don't know
00:24:05.940 12,000 copies
00:24:07.200 26,000 copies
00:24:08.520 no one wants
00:24:09.280 to hear that though
00:24:10.180 like you hear that title
00:24:11.200 and you're like
00:24:11.660 I get it
00:24:12.340 you can even be a fan
00:24:13.260 of hers
00:24:13.740 but you don't want to
00:24:14.760 I don't want to relive that
00:24:16.200 that doesn't sound fun
00:24:17.200 I don't even want to live
00:24:18.020 that vicariously
00:24:18.920 for the first time
00:24:19.960 like why bring this up 0.98
00:24:21.180 this is ridiculous 0.81
00:24:21.920 okay here 0.93
00:24:22.720 I've got two more
00:24:23.500 that are good ones
00:24:24.360 okay so
00:24:25.160 Tamika D. Malloroy
00:24:26.940 a social activist
00:24:28.080 with over a million
00:24:28.720 Instagram followers
00:24:29.540 and who has paid
00:24:30.120 one million dollars
00:24:30.980 for a two book deal
00:24:32.020 her first book
00:24:33.360 State of Emergency
00:24:34.000 sold only 26,000 copies
00:24:35.580 here's one that
00:24:36.880 that kind of
00:24:37.440 bums me out
00:24:37.960 Piers Morgan
00:24:38.680 okay
00:24:39.540 eight million
00:24:40.260 on followers
00:24:40.880 on Twitter
00:24:41.260 he's interviewed us
00:24:42.060 before on Instagram
00:24:43.020 he has 1.8 million followers
00:24:44.400 and he wrote the book
00:24:45.560 Wake Up
00:24:46.080 Why the World
00:24:46.620 Has Gone Nuts
00:24:47.260 in the U.S.
00:24:49.220 it sold just
00:24:50.340 5,650 copies
00:24:52.520 5,000
00:24:54.660 for Piers Morgan
00:24:55.560 no one knows him
00:24:58.000 here
00:24:58.600 perhaps that's the issue
00:24:59.860 but I hear it
00:25:01.060 no one reads
00:25:01.700 no one reads
00:25:02.300 also Gen Alpha
00:25:03.460 doesn't know how to read
00:25:04.400 there's that as well
00:25:05.900 so this is where
00:25:07.280 and this is where
00:25:07.820 I want to tie this all up
00:25:09.160 with sort of
00:25:10.180 our message
00:25:10.900 to young authors
00:25:12.780 and stuff like that
00:25:13.840 when you're reading
00:25:14.420 all of this
00:25:15.020 there is no reason
00:25:16.920 to go through
00:25:17.420 a traditional publisher anymore
00:25:18.480 yeah
00:25:18.820 you are getting nothing
00:25:20.020 their game
00:25:20.740 oh worse
00:25:21.240 worse
00:25:21.940 so what you talked about here
00:25:23.080 is a lot of public
00:25:23.900 or a lot of authors
00:25:24.860 have not made it past
00:25:26.120 their point at which
00:25:27.000 they can start making
00:25:27.700 royalties
00:25:28.180 right
00:25:28.400 they've not made
00:25:28.960 past that point
00:25:29.740 where at least
00:25:30.320 the publishers
00:25:30.760 have a slight profit
00:25:31.820 or net neutral
00:25:32.740 we know many authors
00:25:34.420 who in their contracts
00:25:36.100 were then obligated
00:25:37.440 to sell a certain
00:25:38.180 number of books
00:25:38.920 and if they failed
00:25:39.860 to sell them
00:25:40.520 guess what was
00:25:41.240 in the fine print
00:25:41.760 of that contract
00:25:42.520 you gotta buy them
00:25:43.880 so we know
00:25:44.580 all these people
00:25:45.060 who are like
00:25:45.460 yeah I have a garage
00:25:46.180 full of books
00:25:46.880 would you like one
00:25:47.840 because I like
00:25:49.060 want my garage back
00:25:50.100 because I had to buy
00:25:51.060 a gazillion books
00:25:52.060 because it was in my contract
00:25:53.020 and I didn't manage
00:25:53.860 to sell the number
00:25:54.580 that I was obligated to sell
00:25:55.780 so not only
00:25:57.160 are you probably
00:25:58.880 not getting any money
00:26:00.140 any actual readership
00:26:02.100 you might also be
00:26:03.420 like completely
00:26:04.240 in a financial hole
00:26:05.320 I don't think we've made
00:26:06.880 what are you thinking
00:26:08.500 if you're in the publishing
00:26:09.280 industry
00:26:09.620 you're like
00:26:09.940 now how do they
00:26:10.820 approach the industry
00:26:11.540 how do they approach
00:26:12.200 people
00:26:12.520 what they are thinking
00:26:13.820 about when they go out
00:26:14.660 and approach people
00:26:15.480 is
00:26:16.580 how can I turn
00:26:18.880 their pre-existing
00:26:20.100 follower base
00:26:21.100 into money
00:26:21.900 that's what they're
00:26:23.380 attempting to do
00:26:24.180 they are not attempting
00:26:25.200 to turn
00:26:26.020 nobodies
00:26:27.060 into famous authors
00:26:28.340 oh no
00:26:29.000 yeah they're looking
00:26:29.520 for a platform
00:26:30.080 they only care
00:26:30.800 about your platform
00:26:31.440 and I think
00:26:31.920 they're starting
00:26:32.360 to realize though
00:26:33.120 that even the platform
00:26:34.020 doesn't sell
00:26:34.720 so what do they do
00:26:36.260 so if you are
00:26:36.480 an author
00:26:37.040 without a platform
00:26:38.120 there is no reason
00:26:39.400 for them to work with you
00:26:40.580 or really give you
00:26:41.560 any money
00:26:42.040 and then you can go out
00:26:42.900 and sell by yourself
00:26:43.560 but then
00:26:44.000 like why not
00:26:44.780 just keep all the money
00:26:45.740 like you really
00:26:47.020 gain so little
00:26:48.460 by going through
00:26:49.120 the traditional
00:26:49.620 publishing houses
00:26:50.400 and as repeated
00:26:51.780 best-selling authors
00:26:52.600 I can just go through
00:26:53.520 what you're getting
00:26:54.040 from them
00:26:54.680 a chance at a
00:26:56.060 New York Times
00:26:56.480 best-seller slot
00:26:57.360 if you are the right
00:26:58.480 politics
00:26:59.020 if they're a New York
00:26:59.800 publisher
00:27:00.220 if they're a New York
00:27:01.440 publisher
00:27:01.780 okay so that's what
00:27:02.980 the second thing you get
00:27:04.940 is some credibility 1.00
00:27:06.780 among idiots 1.00
00:27:07.560 but most people 1.00
00:27:09.480 don't really care
00:27:10.140 the other thing
00:27:11.500 that you get
00:27:12.320 is
00:27:13.420 you're not really
00:27:15.460 help with marketing
00:27:16.240 they don't really
00:27:16.940 do that anymore
00:27:17.640 so you're not
00:27:18.200 really getting that
00:27:19.180 you might get
00:27:20.040 like the editorial
00:27:20.760 oversight
00:27:21.180 some don't
00:27:22.580 but really
00:27:23.160 it's
00:27:23.720 they're like
00:27:24.360 you get editors
00:27:25.240 it's no
00:27:25.760 you lose control
00:27:26.860 of editing
00:27:27.280 you lose control
00:27:28.160 of the title
00:27:28.680 of your book
00:27:29.080 some like that
00:27:29.540 some don't
00:27:30.160 some like that
00:27:30.820 some don't
00:27:31.380 we have to say that
00:27:32.300 some people just want
00:27:33.000 to be told
00:27:33.280 what it's doing
00:27:33.720 and you may get
00:27:34.380 an advance
00:27:34.840 if you don't expect
00:27:35.980 your book to do well
00:27:36.680 yeah 100%
00:27:37.420 go for that advance
00:27:38.300 as long as you can
00:27:39.280 get out of the fine print
00:27:40.000 that Simone's talking about
00:27:40.840 what do you lose
00:27:42.400 you lose price and control
00:27:44.000 which is literally
00:27:45.140 everything in today's market
00:27:46.520 yes
00:27:46.980 all of our books retail
00:27:47.940 for 99 cents
00:27:48.820 for the digital book
00:27:49.700 because we know
00:27:50.640 we're not going to make
00:27:51.180 money from them
00:27:51.700 and we just want
00:27:52.260 people to get them
00:27:52.960 and we give everybody
00:27:53.700 our audiobooks for free
00:27:54.700 if you get the digital book
00:27:55.760 you can also get them
00:27:56.760 on audible
00:27:57.200 if you like
00:27:58.120 find it easier
00:27:58.740 to use that platform
00:27:59.660 because it's easier
00:28:00.160 than using just mp3 files
00:28:01.640 for some people
00:28:02.440 if they have a lot of money
00:28:03.180 but yeah
00:28:04.060 we don't try to make
00:28:04.700 any money off of our books
00:28:05.720 some people are like
00:28:06.400 oh I got your book
00:28:06.920 as a favor to you
00:28:07.780 and I'm like
00:28:08.180 then put it somewhere
00:28:08.940 prominent in your house
00:28:09.740 that's how you do me a favor
00:28:10.840 we all the profits
00:28:12.400 go directly to our
00:28:13.380 non-profit bank account
00:28:14.660 so it does help
00:28:16.120 the non-profit
00:28:16.760 yeah
00:28:18.260 moderately
00:28:18.760 no but we're making
00:28:20.040 like 50 cent per book
00:28:21.280 because I put it
00:28:21.980 at like the lowest level
00:28:23.240 that we can price it at
00:28:24.900 yeah
00:28:25.320 so that's one thing
00:28:26.440 that you're losing
00:28:27.060 which then makes it
00:28:27.880 so you have less reach
00:28:28.720 with your books
00:28:29.160 but if I wanted to go
00:28:30.000 for more
00:28:30.280 then I'd be making
00:28:30.760 higher margins
00:28:31.380 but then you also
00:28:32.480 have total control
00:28:33.160 of how it's released
00:28:34.020 where it's released
00:28:34.860 etc
00:28:35.160 and then for audiobooks
00:28:36.720 just read your own book
00:28:37.720 like initially
00:28:38.220 we hired like audiobook people
00:28:39.720 and I was like
00:28:40.320 why am I doing this
00:28:41.220 I just read my own book
00:28:42.260 and that's the way
00:28:43.840 we do our books now
00:28:44.660 but I think
00:28:45.680 what this means
00:28:47.120 is a lot of people
00:28:48.080 they see books
00:28:48.760 as a refuge of like
00:28:50.180 academics or intellectualism
00:28:52.140 but it isn't that anymore
00:28:54.440 I think the true intellectuals
00:28:56.160 now are Substack
00:28:57.700 I think that's the most
00:28:58.560 intellectual reading
00:28:59.960 and high ideas
00:29:00.860 engagement platform
00:29:01.680 at the moment
00:29:02.140 yes
00:29:02.780 and then after Substack
00:29:03.980 I think it's blogs
00:29:05.920 like you go to Aporia
00:29:07.060 or something like that
00:29:08.200 and then after that
00:29:09.380 I think it's YouTube
00:29:10.140 and then after YouTube
00:29:11.940 I don't really think
00:29:12.720 anything is even
00:29:13.700 in the game
00:29:14.600 oh podcasts
00:29:15.200 come on
00:29:16.540 oh yeah podcasts
00:29:17.140 are you plugging them together
00:29:17.960 yeah yeah yeah
00:29:19.060 and I guess this is technically
00:29:20.180 a podcast
00:29:20.640 some people are watching
00:29:21.640 this through podcasts
00:29:22.480 one of my favorites
00:29:23.540 is like oh
00:29:24.000 I watch our YouTube videos
00:29:25.260 and I put them through AI
00:29:26.900 so I can turn it into
00:29:28.040 written text
00:29:28.600 so I can read that
00:29:29.280 and consume it faster
00:29:30.040 and I was like
00:29:30.660 we have a Substack
00:29:31.780 that automatically does that
00:29:33.020 right
00:29:33.280 I pre-translate
00:29:35.160 all of these to written text
00:29:36.280 so that's the way
00:29:36.800 you prefer to consume them
00:29:37.840 like my job is just
00:29:39.020 or my goal is just
00:29:39.920 to touch as many people
00:29:40.740 as possible
00:29:41.220 that's the goal
00:29:42.520 with these ideas
00:29:43.440 and these platforms
00:29:44.320 and that's how you do it
00:29:45.680 these days
00:29:45.980 you need to adapt
00:29:46.720 to your environment
00:29:47.320 and I think a lot of people
00:29:48.820 they'll say things like
00:29:49.540 yeah but the podcasts
00:29:50.600 and the YouTubes
00:29:52.400 those won't be seen
00:29:53.680 as classics
00:29:54.320 in a hundred years
00:29:55.980 but I'm like
00:29:56.780 yeah of course they will
00:29:58.280 and they're like
00:29:58.960 podcasts from a hundred years ago
00:30:00.320 aren't seen as classics
00:30:01.020 I'm like
00:30:01.620 podcasts from a hundred years ago
00:30:03.200 were things like
00:30:05.680 the Federalist Papers
00:30:07.920 that was two people
00:30:09.140 arguing against each other
00:30:10.500 in like the op-ed section
00:30:12.500 of a magazine
00:30:13.320 that was the podcast
00:30:14.800 of its period
00:30:15.540 or like St. Paul's Letters
00:30:17.420 or something like that
00:30:18.320 not everything was done
00:30:19.480 in book format
00:30:20.160 and even like this panic
00:30:21.920 about people
00:30:22.680 like young people 0.98
00:30:23.700 over watching podcasts
00:30:25.220 and it dumbing them down
00:30:26.540 I think
00:30:27.440 you see this
00:30:28.440 in the early days of books
00:30:29.220 people were afraid
00:30:29.800 of reading fever
00:30:30.620 like young girls 0.94
00:30:32.540 getting reading fever
00:30:33.600 they would just do nothing
00:30:34.940 but read it was said 0.77
00:30:35.980 and it was rotting their brains 0.77
00:30:37.260 uh oh 0.82
00:30:37.740 and because they believed
00:30:38.780 that books were addictive
00:30:39.720 and messed with the brains
00:30:41.000 of young women
00:30:41.540 if that sounds familiar to you
00:30:43.040 but anyway
00:30:44.100 I have loved this conversation
00:30:45.380 and I'm glad
00:30:45.960 that we were able
00:30:46.480 to bring this topic
00:30:47.260 to our audience
00:30:47.940 likewise
00:30:48.800 TLDR
00:30:50.160 don't write a book
00:30:52.020 make a podcast
00:30:53.480 or sub stack
00:30:54.200 and I love you
00:30:56.220 to death Simone
00:30:56.960 love you too
00:30:57.700 gorgeous
00:30:57.940 and you are amazing
00:30:59.820 and if you do want
00:31:00.900 to check out our books
00:31:01.560 it's the Pragmatist Guide series
00:31:02.960 and we have one on
00:31:03.760 religion
00:31:04.120 sexuality
00:31:05.020 relationships
00:31:06.420 life
00:31:07.320 and government
00:31:08.260 and government
00:31:08.280 and government
00:31:08.780 and government
00:31:08.880 and government
00:31:09.420 and government
00:31:09.440 and government
00:31:10.240 and government
00:31:10.580 and government
00:31:11.340 and government
00:31:11.800 and government
00:31:12.280 and government
00:31:12.940 absolutely
00:31:13.240 and government
00:31:14.420 and government
00:31:15.380 and government
00:31:16.120 and government
00:31:16.400 and government
00:31:16.960 and in government
00:31:17.400 and government
00:31:18.320 and government
00:31:18.380 and government
00:31:19.180 and government
00:31:19.420 And government
00:31:20.060 and government
00:31:20.800 and government
00:31:21.260 and government
00:31:21.620 and government
00:31:22.220 and government
00:31:22.440 and government
00:31:23.180 and government
00:31:23.420 and government
00:31:23.960 and government