Based Camp - Why Cousin & Interracial Marriages Have Better Genetic Outcomes

00:00:00.000 hello malcolm i'm so excited to be with you today because we're gonna get spicy and extol

00:00:04.640 the virtues of cousin marriage and mixed-race marriage mirror universe encounter mirror

00:00:10.360 universe this is easy yeah i can pretend to be evil just so you know hold on stop before you

00:00:18.080 go further are we talking about mixed race or just cousin marriage mixed race and cousin marriage

00:00:21.800 oh really yeah we're going we're going in for both dude yeah continue because ultimately i'm

00:00:27.520 going to argue that you should basically go for one or the other but either either marry your

00:00:33.040 cousin or someone of a different race yeah dude

00:00:35.220 captain's log stardate unknown my landing party is beamed back to the enterprise and found it

00:00:54.140 and the personnel aboard changed the ship is subtly altered physically behavior and discipline has

00:01:01.080 become brutal savage

00:01:02.520 take what is all this

00:01:07.680 so going to the genetics of this go go let me can i mr tired man just let let me drive let me cook

00:01:16.740 all right anthropologists estimate that over 80 of marriages in history have been between second

00:01:22.380 cousins or closer so basically the default for the vast majority of human history has been people

00:01:28.640 marrying their relatives i remember we were walking in in the alps in switzerland when you really opened

00:01:34.940 my eyes to this you were like listen like look at these hills do you think that the people who've

00:01:38.640 lived here for thousands of years were like going far away to marry someone like it was really hard

00:01:44.380 they weren't doing that they were like marrying their siblings but so even today cousin marriage rates are

00:01:50.280 pretty high like especially in parts of the middle east and north africa and south asia they can be up

00:01:55.580 to 20 to 50 percent of marriages today in countries like pakistan or kuwait or saudi arabia but like even

00:02:01.680 if you're a weird you know european urban monoculture person you should probably be cool with cousin

00:02:09.020 marriage it gave us charles darwin who also in turn was a product of a well he was a product of his

00:02:15.020 second cousin marriage but he married his first cousin and he's he's the evolution dude i mean

00:02:19.340 he's the evolution dude yeah yeah hg wells he was he had first cousin parents tons of european royals

00:02:25.280 obviously but even albert einstein married his first cousin you know like that the smart people are

00:02:32.160 doing it and then if we go to mixed race which mixed race you're a smart guy like albert einstein or

00:02:37.500 darwin you're marrying your cousin i mean and do you know about darwin's list of like benefits and

00:02:43.160 drawbacks of marriage this man was very thoughtful about it he did he did a list yeah oh my god oh

00:02:47.680 okay hold on sorry diversion you don't know this list okay charles darwin marriage pro and con list

00:02:57.720 this is too good to to yeah so pros of marriage so yeah before he before he married his first cousin

00:03:06.860 he really thought he like he wasn't sure about getting married at all so before he he

00:03:12.240 he married his wife he made a pro con list pros of marriage as listed by darwin a constant companion

00:03:18.840 and friend in old age children who could be a source of love and play the charms of music and

00:03:24.680 female chit chat a home and someone to care for it okay i got the pros yeah you got the pros a

00:03:33.600 significant feeling of being humanized and having greater happiness than solitude and a a soft wife on a

00:03:41.700 sofa with a good fire books and music what a sweet i love that sex is not in there for him yeah

00:03:48.200 he's autistic darwin he was probably asexual so the cons of marriage as listed by darwin

00:03:54.780 a terrible loss of time preventing travel or pursuing scientific interests you know he had

00:04:00.120 he had his special interests malcolm the bugs okay the the animals limited freedom to go wherever he

00:04:06.480 pleased that's a problem forced visits to relatives and having to bend in every trifle who's not down

00:04:14.000 with that also the anxiety expense and responsibility associated with children he was not excited about

00:04:19.220 kids a reduction in funds meaning less money for books ah less money for books yes and less time

00:04:27.480 for evenings out with friends and clever men at clubs clever men at clubs clever men at clubs

00:04:34.240 womanly chat you get but not clever male clever men yes yeah you you yeah he had to trade in clever men

00:04:41.260 for a soft wife on a sofa with a good fire books and music but not as many books not so he thought

00:04:47.560 really carefully about this okay but yeah i mean like obviously like cousin marriage was the historical

00:04:53.140 default because people can get around but now mixed race marriage is bigger than ever and getting

00:04:58.440 bigger 18 to 20 percent of new marriages in the u.s are mixed race marriages they have produced

00:05:04.140 amazing people barack obama mariah carey tiger woods vanessa williams so i'm going to go through the

00:05:09.700 history of cousin and mixed race marriage mixed race marriages and how the regulation thereof has shaped

00:05:14.800 civilization we're going to talk about the benefits and drawbacks of cousin and mixed race marriage

00:05:19.520 because there are ways to do it and there are ways to not do it um to be blunt and i'll share general

00:05:25.960 takeaways if you want to be really obsessive darwin style about producing ways to not do it you're

00:05:31.480 going to suggest some racial pairings are bad i am yes sorry but not sorry but if you want to have

00:05:38.200 maximally fit kids based on your partner choice there are ways to do it better than others on average

00:05:44.380 smite's base camp okay we're not about to get canceled it's not worth doing and then ultimately

00:05:51.160 i'm going to explain why basically it's it's optimal to either marry your fourth cousin or third cousin

00:05:57.700 or marry someone from a very specific different genetic heritage based on your sex and personal

00:06:03.120 background so this is different for men and women okay very specific i'm going to be tactical here

00:06:08.300 you're going to come away with actionable advice for either you or your marriage planning for children

00:06:14.800 which is i guess what we're going to be looking at and then bonus malcolm at because i've i've looked

00:06:20.180 i hacked into your 23andme account and added you as a contact and i found exactly how much you and i

00:06:27.440 are related so you get to find out that at the end because everyone wonders just how related are we

00:06:34.280 they they think that we're brother and sister because you know look at us well no we are cousin

00:06:41.340 marriage she's not my cousin but she could be i think genetically speaking well you're gonna find

00:06:46.020 out aren't you malcolm you're gonna check that i already did i just told you i hacked into your 23andme

00:06:50.640 account i made us wait are we related you have to stay awake long enough to see you have to wait until

00:06:56.780 the end i'll give you the screenshot no i like and i yeah i went into your account so i could find

00:07:02.820 oh my god simone we're totally cousins aren't we you're gonna find out so the history the history

00:07:12.060 of mixed race marriages and cousin marriages basically genetic and genealogical studies show

00:07:16.780 that before the industrial age most spouses were on average fourth cousins much more closely related

00:07:22.240 than today's typical partners so we've sort of like let go which is sad this may explain a sort of

00:07:27.900 i mean the fact that maybe we are descended from so much cousin marriage could explain a sort of

00:07:33.780 mating which which is the this phenomenon of people being more attracted to people who resemble

00:07:39.000 themselves so studies have shown that participants in these studies rate faces morphed with their own

00:07:44.380 features as more attractive so they'll like take a general face and like you know meld it with

00:07:48.580 pictures of them and those people like hey that person's hot it's really nice well no so the

00:07:55.060 western mark effect many people don't know this if you grow up separate from your siblings or your

00:08:00.500 parents uh you typically are unnaturally attracted to them when you become an adult yeah and the only

00:08:06.220 reason you are not aroused by your siblings is because of something called the western mark effect

00:08:10.740 which means your body cues to people who are around you and who you have affection for during specific

00:08:16.800 developmental periods early in your childhood and causes a disgust reaction towards those

00:08:21.540 individuals you're like ew i would never i see you as a sister as a brother whatever even if you're

00:08:26.360 like people raised together get this effect even though they're not biologically related exactly

00:08:31.660 which is a big problem in some parts of the world where they practice you know ride prices at very young

00:08:37.000 ages and train the kids when they're still young because then they develop the western mark effect for

00:08:43.600 each other and they'll find each other quite well this is also a big problem with those ivf donors who've

00:08:48.300 like you know produced all like into each other and they're a huge problem yeah and like people

00:08:53.420 have had the like there there are support groups for this you can look it up for people who realize

00:08:58.640 sometimes a little late that they're attracted to their their siblings and i mean how embarrassing i

00:09:04.160 mean this has even shown up in like movie plots and stuff it's yeah it's it's a thing but yeah i mean

00:09:09.580 also in speed dating experiments people have rated opposite sex partners with similar faces including

00:09:14.440 geometric averages and shared ethnic features is both more attractive and more kind it's like you're

00:09:20.380 a better person because you'll look because you're more like me well i mean in-group preferences are

00:09:25.240 useful well yeah and also just in general couplers are more likely to be of similar ethnicity and to

00:09:30.160 share notable facial facial features like like hair color and eye shape and face and cheekbone

00:09:35.240 structure and even jawline i don't know like it kind of feels like it dovetails to me with the

00:09:40.140 the the that weird phenomenon of also people looking like their dog i think people just like

00:09:44.700 like appearances that resonate with them but one tv experiment i thought this was funny found that

00:09:50.040 over 75 percent of people picked as most attractive the face that had been subtly edited to resemble

00:09:55.760 themselves so once again like when when researchers like just insert your face into someone else you're

00:10:02.700 like god damn i want to bang them which is is just delightful but cousin marriages have also been

00:10:07.900 fought for centuries so i mean very popular example the catholic church began to ban cousin marriage in

00:10:12.980 the early middle ages and it gradually expanded this prohibition during the 6th to 12th centuries

00:10:17.620 and initially it only covered marriage between close relatives but by the 9th and 12th centuries which

00:10:22.640 is still forever ago it extended to as many as seven degrees of kinship can you imagine how hard that

00:10:28.560 would be for people basically a functional trap you in in that time period for people who aren't aware

00:10:34.440 there is no one you would have met when you talk about how distant seven degree kinship is

00:10:39.260 yeah it wouldn't be seven degree kinship yeah so point out here i don't know what degree kinship i'm

00:10:44.640 going to be to you in this cousin mad simone but i'm pretty sure it's closer than seven

00:10:49.140 and we met each other randomly in modern society i would be very surprised and the reason why the church

00:10:58.800 did this is it gave them more control over people because there's no other reason you would

00:11:02.660 just in case you're wondering what the bible does ban you've got parents and children leviticus 18 7

00:11:07.480 8 it's probably a good one to have in there siblings and half siblings leviticus 18 9 11

00:11:12.640 aunts uncles and nieces and nephews leviticus 18 12 through 14 daughters-in-law leviticus 18 15

00:11:20.660 sisters-in-law leviticus 18 16 grandchildren implied in broader family context and then if you're looking

00:11:29.560 for the line that they use to try to get the broader like seven degrees of consanguineity

00:11:33.820 it is leviticus 18 6 none of you shall approach any of his close relatives to uncover nakedness

00:11:40.860 however in the context close relatives means close relatives there's there's a couple reasons i mean

00:11:46.940 like the one that the pc answer they give is like oh we wanted to like you know get people to extend

00:11:53.280 their networks more broadly so that you know there was broader unity but like one of the big things is

00:11:58.240 because to your point it was really hard to find someone who is that unrelated to you you had to

00:12:03.100 get a dispensation and that generated income and increased the assets of the church but also they

00:12:10.220 wanted to break up tight expended extended family clan networks and power because then you know the

00:12:15.940 church had the power not the family clans and it also just had a profound effect on family and social

00:12:20.940 structure in western europe it drove the rise of the nuclear family which you know you and i hate

00:12:25.720 a weakened tribal and clan loyalty so it was it was it was one of those like you know this this this

00:12:31.080 early fight against cousin marriage which is such a default has shaped a lot of our history and then

00:12:38.160 many u.s based restrictions actually didn't emerge which i think is really interesting until

00:12:43.080 around the civil war kansas was the first to ban cousin marriage and it was only in 1858

00:12:48.320 most of the prohibitions yeah kansas most of the prohibitions appeared by 1930 so it was actually

00:12:56.120 pretty late that the u.s started freaking out about it but what's interesting is it wasn't just driven

00:13:00.880 by concerns about the health and fitness of offspring like what what they cited at the time was birth

00:13:06.080 defects idiocy deafness blindness etc but they were also very concerned about social order and morality

00:13:12.560 and they wanted to promote civilization through marriages between unrelated people so it wasn't

00:13:18.420 just genetics they thought like influential writers and ministers in the mid-1800s linked cousin marriage

00:13:23.280 with primitive customs they suggested that it undermined societal progress and moral standards but and

00:13:29.400 i've seen some articles recently that have argued that the reason why the west developed as much as it

00:13:34.220 did and as quickly as it did was because of the ban on cousin marriages which broke up family clan

00:13:38.040 networks yeah and i mean you needed to have higher trust for society in general yeah i mean the

00:13:43.480 catholic church did that i mean they did it was profoundly well in which case i would respond then

00:13:48.580 why is it that the non-catholic european countries are more economically developed than the catholic ones

00:13:53.680 i mean that's the thing yeah is then you had the protestants who didn't have those rules and those

00:13:58.080 rules basically you had like this sort of protestant rum spring of cousin marriage and then you had like a

00:14:03.480 closing again well and the jews don't have these rules as far as i know jews do cousin marriages

00:14:08.160 fairly frequently yeah yeah yeah i think i have some stats later in here that cover that as of where

00:14:15.280 we are today with cousin marriage it's legal in about 18 to 27 states so it sort of depends on the

00:14:21.820 conditions it's illegal in in 24 to 32 states so more often than not in the united states you can't

00:14:27.340 marry your cousin many of the states that ban cousin marriage recognize the marriages if they're

00:14:32.220 performed elsewhere but not all of them so even if like you marry in a legal to marry your cousin

00:14:37.160 where where can't you still be married orthodox youth by the way do frequently get married to

00:14:40.700 their cousins okay well there you go i don't have a specific listing of states i don't care you gotta

00:14:45.100 look it up man except that here's the thing second cousin and beyond is totally legal like everywhere

00:14:50.160 well second cousin and beyond is completely pointless from a genetic standpoint

00:14:53.300 you still have risk to the second cousin level we're gonna get to the risk the stuff in a bit but

00:15:00.240 i also also want to cover briefly the history of mixed race marriages in in in there is actually

00:15:05.380 a lot more mixed race marriage in early u.s history than i expected in in u.s history i cut this

00:15:10.640 section out because it was blindingly boring get to the what's the point of what you're talking about

00:15:14.840 what is this where is the good that's coming from this the good okay so you don't want me to go

00:15:20.180 over any more these are pointless these aren't famous this isn't einstein this isn't darwin this is

00:15:25.000 random people who are famous we had all these yeah there's there's a lot of famous people but

00:15:29.160 sure we'll go into the benefits of both cousin marriage and mixed race marriage third cousin

00:15:34.080 marriages have been found to yield the highest reproductive success so you have they have more

00:15:38.420 children on average and more grandchildren on average compared with both closer relatives like

00:15:43.040 first and second cousins and very distant partners that's why i'm like no third ideal genetic distance

00:15:48.980 is third or fourth you want to marry your third yeah go on 23andme connect with everyone you can

00:15:53.820 and when you find a third and fourth cousin just like go for it you go in for the kill you know

00:15:58.740 hey man be like hey i've heard we're an optimal genetic match i saw you were my third cousin

00:16:03.460 can i get your number this is the new pickup line people i think part of this has to do with cultural

00:16:10.760 compatibility like you know you you built this theory in the pragmatist guide to crafting religion that

00:16:15.520 culture and religion evolved alongside our biology for a long long time and when you marry someone who's

00:16:21.380 more related to you you're also more likely to share the same kind of instinctual reactions to culture

00:16:26.700 and to traditions and you're able to have this more cohesive life together as a family which i think

00:16:31.160 contributes to this this you know more prolific offspring thing like your fertility is just going

00:16:40.560 to be higher and i think that that makes a lot of sense but there's i i was when doing this research

00:16:46.440 i was wondering like what about this this those experiments the sweaty t-shirt experiments where

00:16:51.420 women supposedly preferred men with jeans that were different from their own right so i looked into it

00:16:57.220 and what they're doing what women are specifically doing with these sweaty t-shirt experiments where

00:17:02.620 basically they have male participants sleep in t-shirts without wearing any deodorant and not showering

00:17:08.480 so they like really pick up their scent and then they have women like smell the t-shirts and decide

00:17:14.740 which t-shirt corresponds with the man they find most attractive like which t-shirt would you bang or

00:17:21.040 like whatever you know what i mean and specifically the the the men are different like the the shirts that

00:17:28.700 they're most attracted to are men who are different but in specifically immune system genes which indicates

00:17:35.480 the preference for partners who are likely to produce children with more diverse and robust immune

00:17:39.340 systems um so you want them to be culturally and genetically similar but have a diverse immune system

00:17:44.660 yes and i thought well like well then don't people who are more related have more similar mhc like

00:17:53.560 these immune system genes yeah and no actually image mhc genes are among the most diverse in the human

00:18:00.960 genome and there's hundreds of variants even within populations yeah so third and fourth cousins are

00:18:06.920 very unlikely to have highly similar mhc genes at the whole genome level they may share some but like

00:18:13.260 just not that many especially if they're third or fourth and this is again why like you really got to get

00:18:17.300 that sweet spot of third or fourth and you you want this too because you're just going to have a

00:18:23.180 healthier kid so yeah i thought you know maybe that that's what's going on there but yeah just in case you

00:18:28.860 were thinking well no i thought being not related was a good thing but no also okay there are absolutely

00:18:33.800 100 benefits to mixed race marriages and let's get to that so there's this concept of hybrid vigor

00:18:38.800 and it applies much more to plants and animals and not humans but it still does exist in humans like

00:18:47.200 the tldr is you can get hybrid vigor but it depends on several factors oh i thought humans were too

00:18:53.480 genetically close for hybrid vigor to exist between populations not exactly so it it does apply in in

00:19:00.340 humans in specific context but the effects are less dramatic than those seen in plants and livestock

00:19:04.660 and the advantages depend on genetic distance and health did you explain hybrid vigor to start

00:19:08.960 like mules stuff like this oh can you explain mules i i sorry okay so hybrid vigor is a phenomenon

00:19:17.580 in which when you breed things that are genetically non-related to each other but related enough to

00:19:23.980 have children with a one of the most famous examples being a mule which is a combination of a donkey and a

00:19:29.960 horse yeah anyway one of them produces the other and they are dramatically smarter dramatically more

00:19:36.400 robust dramatically higher endurance than either of the parent species but they're also you can't breed

00:19:43.240 which is which is not what you would get with a closer related population and so the idea is is

00:19:48.260 that yes you have this this period where you want to be super closely related like for third or fourth

00:19:52.720 cousin and then you don't the benefits drop off and then the only other reason to like go

00:19:58.960 to deviate you're going super far super far yeah like much much farther but it depends it depends again

00:20:05.460 so we're gonna get there like basically though the the human benefits because i think these are really

00:20:09.700 interesting increased height increased cognitive function they've been observed in studies of

00:20:15.220 genetically diverse human pairings the children tend to be taller and score slightly better on

00:20:19.880 educational achievement when their parents considered like are considerably different in in ancestry

00:20:25.620 and there's also a reduced risk of some recessive genetic diseases for reference here she is talking

00:20:32.000 about the child's iq relative to the parent's iq so the increase in iq the child has over the parents

00:20:38.240 not necessarily in terms of absolute terms i actually think you see this with if you look and i think

00:20:45.280 anyone who's not like just lying to themselves would tell you that many mixed race pairings are just

00:20:50.640 much more attractive than any oh and that's yeah that's like the anecdotal thing is it yeah like

00:20:57.020 subjectively people kind of overwhelmingly agree agree that like oh like white plus asian is uniquely

00:21:04.640 attractive for example and that could be due to the genetic diversity could also be due to symmetry

00:21:10.220 which well symmetry would only increase as genetic health increase that's why symmetry is a good proxy

00:21:15.000 for genetic health yeah so basically any genetically distant pairing can yield increased average height

00:21:24.160 in cognitive achievement and then black white pairings could increase sorry could decrease the risk of a

00:21:33.840 recessive disease so that's also great and then asian and white pairings um typically produce increased

00:21:40.180 height and possible better lung function like really specific stuff so like the benefits aren't huge

00:21:45.660 but i think they're non-trivial but then there are complications so the most important one and you've

00:21:50.940 pointed this out in a couple different podcasts which is what inspired me to yeah i only knew about the

00:21:56.780 black white one which can be a complication and you found it in other populations so to start the black white

00:22:01.820 one is the average white european population gestation is 40 weeks 280 days the average black and asian

00:22:08.960 population gestation is 39 weeks i didn't know about asians here yeah and so and and that means

00:22:14.000 that if you are a white man and you marry a asian or black woman your mixed race baby might get ejected

00:22:26.600 a little bit sooner than it does they've done studies on this no they have yeah so there's a genetic

00:22:32.540 mismatch between black mothers and white european babies and asian mothers too they can lead the mother's

00:22:37.780 body to initiate labor earlier than the fetus is developmentally ready and this this gestational timing

00:22:42.920 is is it's programmed by maternal genetics so this just can't mothers can't change this so mothers with a black

00:22:51.960 mother and a white father have a higher risk of low birth rate premature birth rate poor fetal growth

00:22:57.100 compared to other birth combinations and research finds worse outcomes like higher risk of preterm

00:23:01.760 birth lower birth rate risk of stillbirth too and infant mortality when the mother's genetics favor

00:23:07.160 earlier birth and the fetus genetics favor a longer gestation so here's where like the limitations to

00:23:13.900 like it depends on who you are and and what your genetic heritage is if you're a white dude you need to

00:23:20.700 think very carefully about the risks or plan around the risks if you are marrying a black or asian woman

00:23:26.940 also i didn't know that gestational diabetes and prematurity with asian white couples is is a risk

00:23:34.480 too so there's like research with asian and white couples shows increased risk for gestational

00:23:38.680 diabetes and variable risks for birth rate and prematurity so again this is not just black

00:23:43.620 populations which is what you thought and then maybe the obesity risk is higher in in ethnically

00:23:49.280 mixed individuals it appears to be slightly elevated compared to both parent populations which

00:23:56.020 i don't know what it could be like maybe like metabolic programming doesn't work well with mixed race

00:24:01.500 like that one no one really understands yet um and then the other thing that that really hits

00:24:06.500 mixed race couples which i think is probably if you're going to ask me i would say this is the biggest

00:24:11.240 factor is just cultural mismatch that you have different parents different cultures and also if you're

00:24:18.000 coming from a really different genetic background again to that point like your biology has evolved

00:24:23.400 for thousands of years alongside a specific culture that is very different from the culture alongside

00:24:27.920 which your partner and their biology has evolved so there's that and then of course yeah cousin

00:24:34.300 marriages also not perfect the major risk is that the kid inherits a recessive genetic trait from two

00:24:39.160 parents it's just more risky if they're related because you're going to have more roles of the dice that

00:24:43.600 you're going to get you know from both parents a recession recessive trait and then end up with it

00:24:48.020 but it's so much lower than i thought like i thought marrying your cousin was like oh you're screwed now

00:24:54.160 like you're going to have deformed kids but so in most cultures throughout human history when they talk

00:24:59.060 about the vast majority i've talked about this on another episode but it's an interesting point is

00:25:02.620 cross cousin marriages actually have a lower chance of leading to genetic deformities than non-cousin

00:25:08.080 marriages if you're in a tribal environment which is why the vast majority of human cultures have

00:25:12.000 preferred cousin marriages if you look historically and people would ask why do cross cousin marriages

00:25:16.940 lead to lower amounts of genetic degradation and it's because i'll check you about this so a cross

00:25:22.380 cousin marriage to explain is when you marry the opposite gendered cousin to that parent so it would

00:25:28.920 be marrying my father's sister's kids or marrying my mother's brother's kids and you could say why is that

00:25:38.800 less likely in a small tribe to lead to genetic problems than non-cousin marriages and the answer

00:25:45.640 is because that's about the only person in the tribe you can be sure is not a half sibling of yours

00:25:50.680 because studies of sibling sibling meetings find that 43 to 50 percent of their offspring do have

00:25:56.440 serious health issues including diabetes and intellectual disabilities and yet only 10 percent of first

00:26:04.820 cousin marriages can produce issues right right and in tribal environments you get a lot of infidelity

00:26:10.640 and so anyone in this the tribe could technically be your half brother or sister except for a cross

00:26:17.140 cousin because it's very unlikely that siblings would sleep with each other yeah so that that makes a lot

00:26:21.580 of sense because sibling is like no really don't go there it's actually even the the single cousin

00:26:27.380 marriages it's causing a lot of genetic problems in environments where you get this happening for many

00:26:32.080 generations yeah like within some immigrant groups in the uk that we cannot speak of but it's causing

00:26:38.380 major genetic degradation i thought that it was more of an issue of father-daughter pairings no the

00:26:44.280 father-daughter pairings is really big within um i thought that's what showed up group that we can't talk

00:26:49.820 about yeah but everybody knows cousin nonsense that was cousin still matters cousin still matters no so

00:26:56.140 like i mean yeah with first cousins the rate of something bad happening like a like a genetic

00:27:02.540 problem is double a normal like coupling an unrelated coupling but like double just means four to six

00:27:10.140 percent versus two to three percent for unrelated couples so it's one of those things where like

00:27:14.520 you helped me with this like when i had a fever in like early in this pregnancy and i was like oh my god

00:27:19.980 i'm gonna cause like you know spina bifida or something and you're like because you know i have a 10x the risk of it

00:27:25.400 now and you're like yeah but 10x puts you at like three percent or something so i i appreciate you're

00:27:32.340 pointing that little detail out about increased odds but basically once you get to third cousins or

00:27:39.300 farther there's no how related are we you've been leaving the audience well i just for the takeaways

00:27:45.440 yeah we'll we'll wrap it up the tldr of cousin marriage safety most major medical organizations

00:27:52.300 consider marriages beyond second cousins to pose no significant risk to offspring the chance of both

00:27:57.120 parents carrying the same recessive disease just falls so dramatically it doesn't even really matter

00:28:01.740 anymore so you should just marry your third or fourth cousin or as a white woman you should marry

00:28:09.540 an asian or black man in as an asian our audience is gonna love that simone you should marry a white woman

00:28:17.240 and if you're a white dude and you insist on being a passport bro just like maybe i will point out one

00:28:22.860 counter argument here that you might not be considering is that of all the ethnic groups in

00:28:27.620 the united states and i can put a graph on screen here the lowest fertility rate is mixed and i think

00:28:33.860 it's a cultural mismatch it's stressful it's hard well you don't pick up pride in either of your

00:28:38.740 identities often and so it leads to i mean if you're like i want to pass my genes on it may not be the

00:28:43.220 best strategy for that even if you get a short-term boost yeah absolutely also like in the end i think

00:28:49.660 when you and i are looking for partners for our kids what we're really going to care about is that

00:28:54.220 they're they're both young that there are general signs of fitness in both health and performance

00:29:00.080 like you know they're successful they're ambitious they're driven they're capable of getting stuff done

00:29:05.520 so i i don't think i'm going to carry that much about relatedness or race and more about those

00:29:10.220 factors and like also like how successful are their parents and how good do their parents look

00:29:15.100 as they age like do they age well like are they genetically healthy you always got to check out

00:29:18.920 the parents my mom and dad always told me that they said look at the mom if you want to know what

00:29:23.540 she's going to look like in 20 years yeah so okay i'm going to send you on what's up the screenshot

00:29:28.780 of our partner relatedness i think you'll be surprised there you go

00:29:34.880 our genetic relationship zero percent zero percent read it and weep people i mean this

00:29:43.580 i was shocked i was shocked we're not related how can this be how can we not be related i was

00:29:51.900 certain that we were related no you were i was too that's why i was like oh i've got it i've got

00:29:57.040 to find this out because i mean this is going to be great you know we can humiliate ourselves

00:30:01.920 online by showing everyone else saying oh the cousin marriage the cousin marriage yeah didn't

00:30:07.060 you say that like when someone online has like nicknamed us the cromwell twins or something yeah

00:30:12.080 i mean we and then there's also the the that one conspiracy theory from really early on that we were

00:30:16.760 just literally the same person just like cross-dressing and filming separately but yeah who knew

00:30:23.560 you're not my cousin i'm so sad we're not optimal for my new system you're not my third or fourth

00:30:32.280 cousin not even my first cousin sorry malcolm didn't mean well i love you simone and even if you're not

00:30:39.940 my cousin even if you're not my cousin tragedies abound yeah no i think cousin marriages are one of

00:30:45.740 these things that in the future we're going to have to normalize to again because we're going to need

00:30:52.080 to normalize to genetically isolating ourselves from mainstream populations uh if we begin to see

00:30:57.680 a dysgenic spiral in the mainstream population which we're already seeing well and also like

00:31:01.260 cousin marriages are so much easier like you can now screen embryos for all sorts of conditions

00:31:06.620 you know and also cousin marriage populations like already do this there there are populations all

00:31:13.820 around the jews do this the orthodox jews do this for taste yeah and also there's a community in africa

00:31:17.320 that do it there was a girl who used to attend woman who used to attend our like cocktail parties

00:31:21.800 who at one point like went to africa to do a story on a specific community that did genetic testing for

00:31:27.660 pairings like this like no this is pervasive and common and now more super powered than ever like

00:31:33.660 you can absolutely i mean you can even marry a sibling now and like you know but you're going to need

00:31:38.960 this for like spaceships and stuff you know like interstellar travel the populations are going to be

00:31:43.640 that big yeah you're going to need to normalize ways to genetically so i would i would say in most

00:31:49.280 good endings for humanity cousin marriages have been re-normalized within the next 500 years

00:31:54.620 yeah yeah yeah yeah is this just us trying to impose our appellation culture on well it does have one of

00:32:03.380 the highest rates of incest porn searches uh they're into it they're into it that sounds like oh god

00:32:11.220 yeah i mean the whole yeah like kissing cousins trope stereotypes exist for a reason i'm sorry but

00:32:20.680 yeah but when you have clan-based family-based cultures as we've talked about you're going to

00:32:24.280 get more cousin marriages so it would have been very normal for the regions that we're descended from

00:32:29.200 to have cousin marriages yeah i mean yeah again we're just like i think the big stigma against

00:32:35.980 cousin marriage is this catholic driven from like the ninth century on don't marry your cousins thing

00:32:45.040 which i really think i mean all i i do think it was about amassing power and about collecting

00:32:49.600 dispensation fees because you know cousins still definitely got married they just had to pay for it

00:32:54.740 well i mean especially if you're in one of the royal lineages everyone in the royal lineages was within

00:32:58.620 seven degrees of somebody else within one of the royal lineages i mean yeah there wasn't a lot

00:33:04.780 that's like a comical law it just means like basically every every royal every noble has to

00:33:10.740 pay us to get married yeah but also like smaller villagers and stuff like people not a biblical reason

00:33:18.520 for it yeah i i didn't look into like their reasoning for it like when it when it happened

00:33:24.280 i'm sure it pissed people off because it just made things more expensive but yeah interesting stuff

00:33:30.520 surprises and twists and thanks for inspiring this episode in the first place because i

00:33:36.380 was shocked by that gestational information and it is a big deal like being born premature is really

00:33:42.580 rough on kids we know that from one of our kids who was born premature and is still behind in growth

00:33:49.460 because of that prematurity i mean you took him to the endocrinologist and he's basically just like

00:33:54.760 yeah no he's fine like all his blood work looks fine everything else looks fine he was just born

00:33:59.900 premature and just that four weeks yeah and and that had a major effect on one of our kids so we're

00:34:05.160 saying this is people who've gone through this ourselves yeah yeah it was so we know but just i mean

00:34:11.000 like you know if you're a white dude looking to passport bro it just prepare i guess i there's not

00:34:16.060 really a whole lot you can do though that's the tough thing is like if you you can't change a

00:34:21.620 woman's genetic programming in terms of like when she goes into labor you can ask her at what week of

00:34:27.620 gestation her mother went into labor because that's often a pretty good predictor but i don't know

00:34:35.620 good luck guys but that's my advice yay anyway i love you yeah your advice is get married to your cousin

00:34:41.580 that's where you look for marry your third or fourth cousin that's right log on

00:34:45.460 go to ancestry.com this is your new dating website this is how you do it okay could be in the future

00:34:54.840 i mean i i think when we put together the the index for the techno puritan people everyone will be like

00:35:00.360 are they the weird ones who practice like third cousin marriage arranged marriages with cousins

00:35:04.980 yeah i feel like yeah it's that one it's that weird one that's us that's us it's funny though

00:35:12.380 because there's that one nordic country that like has a registry to make sure you're not

00:35:16.660 dating your cousin right yeah so like iceland or whatever gonna have to although i'm sure it's just

00:35:23.580 first cousins i'm sure like honestly i bet that they've super normalized it they're like oh phew we're

00:35:28.100 not first cousins so we're good to go yeah oh god all right i will let you nap and then you'll have

00:35:36.680 miso soup for dinner and i love you very much i love you so much and yeah miso soup would be great

00:35:42.540 for dinner tonight yeah you're so hungry it's a very delicious dish and i'll do a little bit aside

00:35:50.080 of mac and cheese yeah i'm gonna i'll saute it with a little pesto eating mac and cheese that's how you

00:35:56.660 really know i mean you're worth it milcom don't you think i don't think so i think i'm not even i'm not

00:36:04.600 even related to you simone i am unrelated trash did we just just i'm a trash pairing i am a same

00:36:11.580 ethnicity unrelated sad that yeah maybe this is just this is the end of our relationship we thought

00:36:18.460 we were so i was shocked too i really was shocked but anyway i'm gonna start your chili tonight too so

00:36:26.600 if you have any specific requests i've already prepared the beans so i'm gonna get that we're doing

00:36:33.460 describe the ingredients if you remember this yeah hold on i'll pour it up

00:36:38.020 him him based on award-winning brisket chili recipes we've got beef brisket trimmed and cut into half

00:36:52.160 inch cubes four slices of thick bacon kosher salt black pepper onion powder for seasoning the meat and

00:37:00.120 then for the chili we've got two cups of white onion diced two bell peppers diced we need the

00:37:04.360 frozen ones per your request four to five cloves of garlic minced or pressed i'm going to use our

00:37:08.940 minced garlic two tablespoons of chili powder ideally a texas blend sorry guys i'm probably gonna also

00:37:17.820 maybe throw in some of your szechuan chili powder yeah instead because i think that's more fun gotta have

00:37:23.080 a malcolm twist the tablespoon of smoked paprika a tablespoon of cumin dried oregano chipotle chili

00:37:30.680 powder or crushed red pepper to taste dried thyme optional one half we're not doing this one half

00:37:39.080 cup of strong brewed coffee or substitute beer or extra broth we're not doing that but but it would have a

00:37:45.000 very big impact on flavor yeah i mean if you want me to take a nespresso pot out and just throw it in

00:37:53.000 but i'm not gonna do that that's uh it's gross and then broth and tomatoes and then the beans

00:38:05.640 so any of that you'd replace with coconut milk

00:38:09.480 i can replace broth with coconut milk and put in bouillon cubes but now we're going way off the grid

00:38:18.040 okay well we'll stick with the broth we'll stick with the broth i mean i can no no no no you sure

00:38:24.360 and for the coffee we we have coffee we have we have nespresso pods for the guests who stay

00:38:33.400 i don't know are they filled with a liquid or are they filled with a they're filled with the grounds

00:38:39.640 and i would need to steep them and prepare the coffee so i say we skip it i just wouldn't

00:38:46.120 i get where they're going with this i would rather kick this up with indian spices after we have it

00:38:53.160 going for a day i like that idea you know what's up we have the karai we have the like all these really

00:38:59.880 great blends that i feel like would be more to your taste instead of this bitter kick because what they're

00:39:04.920 really if they're like they want a strong beer or coffee they're really just trying to add

00:39:10.760 a kick i would rather see a kick from like sour cream as a topping and then this great undercurrent

00:39:15.560 of rich aromatic right and you know what's up simone okay all right oh i have to sear the brisket first

00:39:22.280 you don't need to steer it first if you want the flavor the right way milka it's not even brisket

00:39:29.880 we're using chuck well we have to we have to sear it in the bacon fat oh so we cook the bacon slices

00:39:37.640 until crisp oh yeah transfer bacon aside but leave fat in pan and then then we sear the cubes what i

00:39:47.400 wouldn't do is do it in cubes i would do it in longer sections why the cubes area to absorb the fat

00:39:55.880 so you do it in like longer sections okay do you understand what i'm suggesting you're diminishing

00:40:01.480 surface area no i'm not diminishing so you want thin you want me to essentially create bacon slices

00:40:08.040 of brisket like not not bacon size small but regular steak size small the reason is you will

00:40:14.520 understand when i explain the reason is when you were doing really long slow cooking periods on meat

00:40:19.240 like this was the point of it breaking down when it is in cubes it doesn't break down as quickly

00:40:24.040 because the cubes just tighten up and get smaller okay i'll do strips we'll do the strips all right

00:40:31.320 right thank you simone i have sorry sorry to annoy you oh gosh and you have to pre-sauté the

00:40:36.520 onions and peppers too you don't have to and then add the garlic no i really do think that this initial

00:40:43.480 like higher heat cooking followed by just a very slow burn is is kind of what we're going for

00:40:52.600 all right i love you so much i love you too bye bye

00:41:03.080 not cousin i'll try

00:41:08.600 okay and i was gonna do hot dogs again for dinner unless great i can do curry for you instead you

00:41:15.800 prefer that i prefer something easy on the stomach so maybe pasta with pesto

00:41:21.640 you only have a tiny smidgen of pesto left so probably not maybe pasta with

00:41:27.400 just cheese pasta and i'll put some pesto on it

00:41:35.000 what i mean we have leftover macaroni and cheese i just

00:41:38.920 they'll have leftover macaroni and cheese seems like you're slumming it if you have an upset stomach

00:41:47.080 we can do something then you could do miso soup would you like miso soup i'd love miso soup do we

00:41:53.720 have the ingredients for miso soup i believe i'll either give you mac and cheese leftovers or

00:41:59.000 i mean i saw miso in the fridge i just don't know how much you need for a batch

00:42:02.040 i'll work it out and then i'll do that so that you have something a little more tasty for you

00:42:07.480 and if i need to dump out half of the fish bonito flake fish teeth that we have to make to do it

00:42:14.200 properly i will do so i'll do what it takes that stuff smells i mean fishy of course it does all right

00:42:21.880 and and you do it with the seaweed the seaweed was really good last time i don't need just not as much

00:42:26.200 because yeah that a little goes a long way i didn't know how much it expands

00:42:29.880 once you know you didn't put in too much seaweed last time you put that i did no i thought it was

00:42:34.680 the i know i said the tofu i didn't really need any tofu there's not going to be any tofu last time

00:42:40.360 you said there was too much seaweed but i did okay yeah so i have learned i will learn but for now i will

00:42:48.280 kick us off because you're you're sleepy and you can't stay a vibe coding all night every night okay

00:42:55.720 i can't i am an amazing coder now i have learned i'm making so much progress you gotta you gotta pace

00:43:02.840 yourself but i i will i will we're letting jesus take the wheel or worse worse a woman so let's let's go

00:43:10.520 okay you ready yeah yeah okay you're so tired looking okay

00:43:23.640 which they're very proud of extremely proud of and now they're trying to get her inside it and drive

00:43:30.360 her around and it's really cute let's have a look what is this

00:43:49.640 close

00:43:50.040 watch out make sure she doesn't fall

00:43:57.160 is she driving on the uh yeah

Based Camp - September 08, 2025

Why Cousin & Interracial Marriages Have Better Genetic Outcomes

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