Based Camp - Why Do Feminist Countries Have Higher Birth Rates？

00:00:00.000 Hello, Simone. I am excited to be here with you today. Today, we are going to be doing one of

00:00:04.060 those things where I noticed something in the data and I ignore it. And then I think about it for a

00:00:09.220 bit and I'm like, wait a second, I should pay a lot more attention to this than I am. So one of

00:00:16.120 the graphs that I often like to show is a graph of falling fertility rates since the 1800s. And when

00:00:24.660 the feminist movement really began to pick up steam to show that the vast majority of fertility 1.00

00:00:30.860 collapse happened before the feminist movement began to pick up steam. But then I had this

00:00:36.300 notice in my head when I was thinking, I was like, you know, I just noticed something about when

00:00:40.880 feminism starts in this movement, which is fertility collapse goes down dramatically 0.99

00:00:48.360 the moment feminism starts in every country, but the UK, by the way. So here I have on screen a

00:00:57.900 chart of fertility collapse within the United States. And what you can see, Simone, I'm sure

00:01:03.480 you're familiar with this one. No, I know this one that sort of shows also France seeing a really

00:01:07.900 rapid decline. No, it's not that one. It's the one in the United States. Okay. Yeah. So what you see

00:01:12.380 here is fertility rates go down really rapidly between 1835 and 1850, like as rapidly as after

00:01:20.440 the baby boom. And then they go like directly downwards. You have this incredibly fast fertility 0.91

00:01:27.780 downwards motion from 1835 to around 18, I'm sorry, 1935 or no, 1940 is about when it ends. Yeah. So it

00:01:38.940 ends at 1940. So do you guys know what happened to happen during 1940 or what happened in the 1920s,

00:01:46.980 1920s, women got the right to vote. 1940s is not just when you had the baby boom, but also when you

00:01:54.380 had a pretty big feminist wave going into World War II. Yeah. Women were working in the factories. 1.00

00:02:00.760 They were entering the workforce in record numbers, right? It was pretty. Yeah. And what we're going to

00:02:05.860 go over here in this episode is countries where women entered the workforce versus countries where 1.00

00:02:10.800 women didn't enter the workforce. And what you might be surprised about is it's very correlatory 0.93

00:02:16.420 with those countries, whether or not the countries had a baby boom might actually be the explanatory

00:02:21.380 phenomenon of the baby boom. We've been looking at is whether or not female empowerment may have been

00:02:28.320 what happened to the baby boom. And what's also very interesting is if you ignore, so let's say

00:02:33.840 in this graph, I'm going to ignore the baby boom and then the, the bust infertility rates after the baby

00:02:39.360 boom, fertility rates look pretty stable from 1940 to 2023. Yeah. You see a bit of a downwards motion.

00:02:51.460 If you were to put a single graphical line between that, but not very big. If you contrast it with

00:02:56.980 any period between 1835 and 1940. Yeah. If you really blur your vision, it just kind of looks like

00:03:03.700 we hit a floor and, and stayed there. We know that that's not a floor because Korea has gone well

00:03:10.100 below that floor. No, I mean, obviously, but like in the U S like that floor too. Okay. So, and there's

00:03:16.420 other videos where we have other hypotheses for the baby boom. We hypothesize it could have been less

00:03:20.340 babies dying. I think that's probably the biggest factor, but it didn't happen in every country. So

00:03:24.980 it couldn't be just that we have a video where we argue that it's nationalism, sort of sci-fi pop

00:03:30.660 culture, futurism of the 1950s, that that didn't occur in some other countries, but here we're going

00:03:35.860 to say that. And I still think all of those things played a role. They were going to say another thing

00:03:39.460 that may have played a role as female empowerment, but let's not just look at this slide. Let's now look

00:03:43.860 at some European countries here. Okay. Okay. So if we look at France in the UK,

00:03:49.780 in terms of fertility bus, what you see in France is that fertility rates have been

00:03:56.100 like, they go down dramatically between 1750 and 1800. They are then stable from 1800 to around 1870.

00:04:06.020 And then they go down a bunch between 1870 and around 1920. And then from 1920 until the recent

00:04:12.740 fertility drops, they have been stable. Oh. You have this graph as well, Simone. I sent it to you.

00:04:19.380 That's interesting. 1920 was around when the Medal of Motherhood in France was first launched,

00:04:24.580 just as a little aside.

00:04:25.940 Now let's look at England and Wales. Does it buck the trend? Kind of. England and Wales has like a

00:04:33.940 growing fertility until you get to like the 18... Well, it's stable, I want to say, from like 1835,

00:04:42.900 like in the US when it began to go down, up to like 1860 or 70. Then you have the massive decrease

00:04:50.180 between 1860 and 70 and like 1930. And then you have another massive decrease after that. So

00:04:56.740 England is the only country that really appears to buck this particular trend. And I also note here,

00:05:02.740 one of the things that's very important to remember when we're looking at this data is that in the baby

00:05:10.180 boom, the baby boom really starts in the countries where it started in the United States and stuff like 0.80

00:05:15.140 that typically a little bit before the war and picks up steam during the war. Not, not after the war.

00:05:23.700 Uh, which would align with this hypothesis a lot more. Now, before we start going into that stuff,

00:05:28.340 I just need to go over the, the broad statistics that you should know if you're a fan, because we

00:05:31.460 have talked about this before. This is not just a phenomenon that you see here. There was a study

00:05:36.340 done by Aria Babu where she did a chart in Europe about when people's views towards motherhood.

00:05:42.820 And what you see is it's a light inverse correlation, but it isn't an inverse correlation

00:05:47.460 between how misogynistic or how, how gender equal the views were about motherhood role

00:05:53.060 and the fertility rate of the country in Europe.

00:05:54.820 It's somewhat subtle. I mean, she looked at, at people, like how people responded in,

00:05:59.620 in surveys to questions like, it hurts the children if the mother works. Though that is pretty, 1.00

00:06:05.460 you know, in the end, but, but that is subtle. But the larger point being is if you then just

00:06:14.500 look with your eyes at a map of Europe and you look at the low fertility countries versus the

00:06:18.580 high fertility countries, I'll just put a map of fertility rates from Europe here. 0.73

00:06:22.580 What you'll see is you could, you could overlap. This was a map of gender equality, right? Like

00:06:27.780 yeah. Northern Europe has much higher fertility rates. France has uniquely high fertility rates.

00:06:33.460 Yeah. Really low fertility rates are countries like Spain and Italy and Eastern Europe. All of

00:06:39.140 the places that you associate with being more misogynistic. Yeah. Totally. It's also true of

00:06:44.980 the developed, the developed world. Look at the uniquely high fertility countries in the developed

00:06:49.300 world, like the United States, like Australia, like Northern Europe, like Israel, and then contrast

00:06:54.100 them with the uniquely low developed, the low fertility rate countries like South Korea, like

00:06:59.060 Japan, like China. These countries have, are dramatically less gender equal. South Korea has 0.93

00:07:05.540 nothing close to the gender egalitarianism of the United States. Japan has nothing close. China has 1.00

00:07:10.500 nothing close. Absolutely. Or Europe. So, so you, you also see this in like the broader macro trends,

00:07:17.460 but I want to trace this in terms of within the United States and then pull up some more evidence here.

00:07:22.580 Then we're going to try to figure out what the is causing this. It is an interesting phenomenon.

00:07:28.020 And it's, I think bigger than I thought it was. I always blew it off. It's just like an easy

00:07:32.660 talking point. So we don't have to deal with reporters calling us feminists. I'm sorry.

00:07:35.940 You're misogynists. But now it's, it's very annoying because the very first thing that

00:07:42.020 pretty much any progressive is going to do in talking about the prenatalist movement or demographic

00:07:46.340 collapse is talking about how well, and therefore what anyone who fights for,

00:07:51.620 who fights against demographic collapse is going to fight against women's rights. And we're like,

00:07:55.540 clearly that's not what anyone's doing here and you're wrong. Leave us alone. And so it's really

00:08:02.100 nice to be able to, to troll, to take these things out, but it's also, it is a little counterintuitive,

00:08:06.740 even to us who don't see disempowering women as the solution, because you would think that the 0.99

00:08:13.380 more women feel like let's, let's go to work and not have kids, which often runs counter to going to 1.00

00:08:20.820 work, you know, that you're going to have lower fertility. What's going on?

00:08:24.340 Yeah. And, and I, I, I note here that the, the increase in pregnancies associated with the baby

00:08:31.060 boom was associated with an increase in female labor participation in the countries where it 1.00

00:08:35.700 happened. If you look at other countries where we've seen a rapid fertility collapse, like India

00:08:40.420 in the nineties, and you track the percent of each gender in the workforce, you do not see an increase

00:08:46.980 in female labor participation over this time. So that does not appear associated. But the bigger

00:08:51.300 question is, it's like, that's weird, right? Like shouldn't it be? Yeah. And also I'm not here

00:08:58.020 going to be like the pronatalist movement is whatever they're calling feminist today, right?

00:09:03.060 It is whatever feminism meant in the past, you know, and, and, and that's something I'm willing

00:09:08.420 to stand. Right. But I'm not willing to stand this modern, weird feminist stuff. I do actually think 1.00

00:09:14.020 that is directly harmful to fertility. I think, you know, I've been watching some Pearl

00:09:18.340 Davis content recently about, I don't know, traditional conservatives forcing the tricking

00:09:22.980 guys into getting married to modern women without knowing what they're getting into. And like,

00:09:26.180 she's got a point. Like feminism has made women kind of crazy recently. 1.00

00:09:31.540 Right. But I think the feminism has become a moored with what at least most people were 0.99

00:09:37.060 raised to believe was feminism. Sorry. And it has become just sort of shorthand for urban monoculture, 0.76

00:09:44.820 which I would argue is not, is not inherently feminist. At least, I mean, I don't know. Did, 0.78

00:09:49.700 did you grow up believing that feminism was about equal rights and equal responsibilities? 1.00

00:09:53.460 Cause that's what I thought it was. That's what I thought. I'm okay with that. You know,

00:09:57.220 I thought like, okay, well, I mean, obviously, yeah. Like women should get 1.00

00:10:00.820 well, like women should be drafted. Like women should also serve on the front lines. Like, 1.00

00:10:05.460 if that's how we're going to do it, let's do it. Okay. But that's not what it is.

00:10:09.380 I also thought feminism meant like acknowledging that men and women are different, right? Like 0.96

00:10:14.260 that you understood that women and men have different biologies and that's fine.

00:10:18.660 Yeah. I can't bench press what you can't just

00:10:21.620 different predilections, you know, but to continue here. Okay. So key developments in the 1920s,

00:10:28.260 in the 1920s, that is when women got the right to vote in the United States. Although voter turnout was 0.99

00:10:32.980 relatively low, the national women's party, the NWP led by Alice Paul remained active,

00:10:39.140 focusing on broader equal rights. They successfully lobbied for the Cable Act in 1922,

00:10:44.500 protecting women's citizenship after marrying foreigners and introduced the Equal Rights

00:10:48.980 Amendment ERA in Congress in 1923, though it faced opposition from groups favoring gender specific

00:10:54.420 protections. The NWP also organized international conferences, pageants, and campaigns like Women 0.87

00:10:59.620 in Congress to boost female political candidates. Now we've done another episode on this, but the 0.95

00:11:05.140 majority of the anti-suffrage movement was actually female and that the average woman was more anti-suffrage 0.69

00:11:11.700 than they were pro-suffrage. If you want to get into this, it was really men who ended up pushing

00:11:16.820 women's vote through. If you want to get into this, we have a video where we go through a lot of historic 1.00

00:11:20.660 quotes on this. It's so funny how like in the end, when it comes to anything getting done,

00:11:25.460 there's a man behind it. Like even the fat acceptance movement, in the end, it was just a

00:11:30.820 bunch of chubby chasers who were dudes instead of like women trying to... This is also when you had 1.00

00:11:36.100 the flapper movement with shorter skirts, smoking... Wait, was that motivated by men? No, no, that's just 0.55

00:11:42.660 another feminist movement you had. Oh, just yeah, yeah, yeah. Before there were flappers, there was 1.00

00:11:47.460 a Gibson girl, which was this sort of empowered working woman, also a style icon. So there were

00:11:55.780 rumblings of it. This built up slowly over time. I think it ultimately exploded with workforce demand

00:12:02.420 for women. Part of what my intuition has like as just a theory of something maybe at play is that

00:12:07.540 something that non-trivially affects fertility beyond just culture being like the one thing that will do

00:12:15.140 it no matter what is enthusiasm and hope for the future of like, hey, things are good. Money's

00:12:20.900 coming in, line go up, number go up, things like that. And I could see women getting jobs and feeling

00:12:29.140 like they are empowered personally, make them feel more comfortable with having more kids. And even if

00:12:36.580 you're a woman living in like a super, you know, like oppressive country that is allegedly forcing you to 1.00

00:12:44.580 have kids, there are ways that women can not have kids, you know, like no matter what, how much your 1.00

00:12:52.660 birth control is curtailed, there are ways that you can suppress your fertility. And I'm not even

00:13:01.220 talking about like, you know, taking strong teas and stuff to, to instigate an early pregnancy loss.

00:13:08.020 I'm talking about like, you can maintain a really low weight so that you don't have periods. Like there,

00:13:12.340 there's so many things you can do. And women have been doing this for very, very long. 1.00

00:13:18.420 The drop happened before the, the 1920s. Yeah. And so what I'm thinking here is that,

00:13:23.060 you know, in the end, like women really do get to choose how their fertility goes. 1.00

00:13:27.220 And I could just see women being like, you know what, things are good. I feel comfortable having 1.00

00:13:31.300 a kid. I'm going to do it. Like, you know, maybe my husband will die in the war. I can get a job,

00:13:35.460 like whatever, like, or, you know, I, I feel like the, the, the future is bright. Let's do it. Or

00:13:40.260 like my, my husband's about to get deployed. Like, let's have a kid now. Like, I don't know, but

00:13:45.060 I do feel like there's sort of this vitality did contribute to that in the 1940s in the U S at least.

00:13:50.500 What do you think? No, I completely agree. And what I'm going to put on screen here is a graph of

00:13:55.860 whether or not there was labor force participation by women in each country and what, how much of a baby 0.95

00:14:02.020 boom they experienced post-war. And really what you see is this is pretty much one-to-one

00:14:06.820 was the only exception in countries that were in the Soviet Union, which didn't experience the baby

00:14:11.140 boom and did have this sort of forced equality of early communism. But they, they lacked nationalism

00:14:17.700 and a national identity, which I think is why, if you watch our video on how nationalism helps,

00:14:22.980 why they didn't have the strong booms. So this is another reason why I think the left is really

00:14:27.460 going to continue suffering with fertility because they assume any form of pride or nationalism as 0.76

00:14:33.860 just fascism. And they just say, fashion is fascism is bad. So like they can't, they're not allowed to be

00:14:40.340 proud. And if they're, if you're not proud of who you are, how can you possibly motivate fertility?

00:14:45.220 Exactly. So let's, let's go through this chart here. Okay. And then I'm going to go over to,

00:14:49.460 if I said that they were high or medium or low, why they were higher, medium or low in the United States,

00:14:54.020 you had a high labor force participation by women and it had a 0.8 boom. One of the largest

00:15:00.340 in Canada, you had a high participation. It had a 0.48 boom in Australia. You had a high 0.99

00:15:05.620 participation. It had a 0.79 boom in New Zealand. You had high participation and it had a really high

00:15:11.060 boom 0.8 in the United Kingdom. You had relatively high participation and it's one of the only, you had a

00:15:17.380 medium boom 0.5. In France, you had medium participation and you had fairly low boom 0.4.

00:15:24.660 In Sweden, you had low female participation. You had no boom really 0.22. In Switzerland,

00:15:30.580 you had low participation. You have virtually no boom 0.2. In Spain, you had low female participation.

00:15:37.860 You had pretty much no boom 0.2. In Portugal, you had low participation. You had no boom at all 0.

00:15:44.020 In Germany, you had medium participation, 0.3, so a low boom. Italy, you had low participation,

00:15:50.340 0.2, so low. In Japan, you had low participation and you had pretty much no boom 0.1. So let's go

00:15:57.620 over these arguments here. Where are these participation rates coming from? In the United

00:16:01.700 States, LFP rose from 28% pre-war to 34% to 36% at peak. It increased to 6% to 8%. Over 6 million

00:16:10.580 women entered the workforce. Government campaigns heavily promoted it. And this was heavily done 1.00

00:16:15.140 through advertising as well, creating female empowerment to the resi, the riveter campaigns,

00:16:18.660 and stuff like that. In Canada, employment numbers doubled from 600,000 permanent jobs pre-war to 1.2

00:16:25.220 million at peak. A proportional increase of 10% to 15% from up to 25% or 35% to 40%, depending on what you're

00:16:34.340 looking at. Australia, it went from 25% pre-war to 35% at peak. That was pretty high. New Zealand,

00:16:41.780 again, one of the high ones, similar to Australian, 8% to 10% of women in the industry pre-war and then

00:16:47.060 substantially like double after that. United Kingdom rose from 26% to 36%, a 10% increase.

00:16:53.940 If you're looking at France, it actually saw only a moderate increase of 5% to 7%. If you look at Sweden,

00:17:01.300 it was stable rates. In Switzerland, you had, again, stable. But what's interesting about

00:17:07.380 Switzerland and Sweden is they already had high female participation, 30% to 35%. But I guess because

00:17:12.740 it didn't go up, you didn't get the increase in females' perception of themselves, maybe. 0.99

00:17:16.660 In Spain, you had low 20% to 25% compared to what it was pre-war. Portugal, you had low 20%.

00:17:24.820 Germany pre-war was already high at 51% and then dropped at 41% due to Nazi ideology. So that's 0.64

00:17:32.660 interesting. I mean, also the left constantly frames Nazi ideology as being very motivational 0.71

00:17:39.300 toward fertility. Yeah. Well, also keep in mind, they had a fertility boom in the side of the country 0.97

00:17:45.060 that the allies controlled. Italy was low, an increase of 3% to 5%. And Japan was low, an increase

00:17:52.340 of 5%. And we can also see some other countries that undergo an inversion of this. All right. So

00:17:58.340 if you look at China, for example, they famously had to work pretty hard to knock their fertility 0.70

00:18:05.620 rates down during the one child movement. And during that time period, the Communist Party and

00:18:11.540 the culture in China tried really hard to promote women with women hold up half the sky movement that 0.85

00:18:17.300 went from like the 1950s to 1960s and stuff like that. If you look at when fertility randomly began

00:18:23.380 to decline in the United States, it was around the 1970s and then declined a ton recently. What are

00:18:29.380 things that have increased recently in China is more traditional gender roles. Gender roles have been

00:18:36.340 moving in the post-communist era to more traditional, more misogynistic roles. And with that, we've seen a

00:18:42.740 unique crash in fertility rates. And also, I should note that female labor participation declined

00:18:49.220 post the 1970s in China. Really? Yeah. Today, it's only 60%. Whoa, what? That's crazy.

00:18:59.700 What are they doing? I guess that's a stupid question, but I don't know. That's so odd. Okay. 1.00

00:19:06.420 Yeah. Another counter example here is Israel. Israel maintains one of the highest fertility 1.00

00:19:13.300 rates among the developed nations, around 2.9 children per woman, despite significant progress

00:19:17.780 in women's rights, including female labor force participation of around 60%. Now, what's interesting

00:19:22.740 here is it's a rising participation, where in China, 60% is a falling participation. And so I think

00:19:28.260 the women's perception of their own role in society is also relevant here. Feminist movements have been big 0.77

00:19:34.100 in Israel, which we all know about. But it was in the cultures in Israel that treat women with less

00:19:39.140 gender equality that you see the highest rates of fertility. But Israel is also the weird country 0.98

00:19:43.380 where progressives have higher fertility rates. We need to dig into that eventually. I don't know

00:19:47.060 what's going on there. So I want to hear your trends on why this is the case, how global you think this

00:19:54.740 is. Because I do not think that this is totally global. I think if you're talking about an Islamist 1.00

00:19:58.820 country or something like this, a lot of the, as we call them, the shadow people, these are the 1.00

00:20:03.140 cultures, whether they be Christian or Jewish or Muslim, that have increased their fertility rate by

00:20:08.020 you know, banning access to education, which lowers their income, which increases their fertility,

00:20:13.220 and also decreases the probability that they're going to leave their culture. They typically treat

00:20:17.300 all outsiders as, you know, evil so that you don't interact with them, so you don't hear their ideas,

00:20:21.540 so you don't get deconverted. And eventually they want to replace everyone, often except for the

00:20:25.300 Jewish groups. And so, you know, this has worked really well across a number of traditions.

00:20:30.340 And to me, it represents everything bad about humanity. You know, they're not technologically

00:20:34.260 productive. They're not particularly inquisitive. They hate all outsiders. They want everyone to be

00:20:38.660 just like them eventually. They represent like the ultimate stagnation to me. And I know that one day

00:20:42.820 we will have to fight them, the vast barbarian tribes of the world, which are only going to increase, 1.00

00:20:48.260 because they do have high fertility. And I think that everyone needs to understand that these groups,

00:20:52.660 even if they superficially share your values, like they're, you're a Jew and they're a Jew, 0.94

00:20:57.620 or you're a Christian and they're a Christian, they don't actually, they're, they're, they're not

00:21:01.460 on point, right? They will come for you eventually. And they'll even tell you that, right? Like,

00:21:05.140 they're like, well, one day your descendants are going to have to be like me, you know that, right?

00:21:09.540 So for these groups, I think, and many of them have already learned this, basically treating women

00:21:14.020 like property does a very, like, like, you know, does a very good job of increasing their fertility

00:21:18.580 rates, but it doesn't work very well. And I've talked about this. It was book two,

00:21:22.660 in societies where women have a choice, where a woman can opt out of the married life, which you 0.92

00:21:26.660 basically need to be an option in any society where you have sort of freedom of movement, freedom

00:21:31.460 of labor. So I actually, I want to disagree with your first point. I don't think the data bears

00:21:35.060 that out. I think that poverty shows that, but I actually think that when women are systematically 1.00

00:21:39.940 disempowered, that doesn't necessarily correlate with higher fertility rates. You see this with

00:21:43.700 Romania. I mean, at first there's a shock where they're like, oh God, like I didn't realize I'm,

00:21:48.260 ah, but then it corrects. And then fertility rates. She's talking about Romania banning abortion

00:21:52.260 and then fertility. I'm also referring to when, for example, Iran curtailed access to different

00:21:58.420 types of higher education. Didn't they get a slight boost in fertility rates from them? No, 0.98

00:22:02.020 no, it didn't. It didn't help. So. So Iran was reaching the degrees that women could get to only 1.00

00:22:07.460 like fluffy degrees, which I think is ridiculous. Just have them only get STEM degrees. Everyone should

00:22:11.300 only get STEM degrees. I know. I know. Well, and the funny thing is, is actually in, in,

00:22:14.900 in cultures that are more female disempowering, you actually see higher rates of women getting, 1.00

00:22:21.860 and at least partaking in STEM careers, because quite honestly, when you give women freedom to

00:22:28.900 do what they want to do, they don't do the hard, the stuff that they're less predisposed to want to

00:22:34.340 do, which turns out to be STEM stuff that, okay. This is a really complicated argument because of course,

00:22:39.620 like originally, like women led in STEM, like in the early days of STEM or whatever, but like,

00:22:44.580 at least in modern times, women don't seem to be predisposed to the modern form of what STEM has 1.00

00:22:49.860 turned out to be in, in many subdomains. Aside from that, I actually think that we, we may be,

00:22:57.300 and, and this is like, everyone is participating in this, this discourse, making a mistake by talking about

00:23:03.540 feminism at all. Maybe feminism doesn't really matter. And we're kind of trying to apply a metric 1.00

00:23:10.740 to the discourse and to the data that doesn't fit and doesn't ultimately correlate in any consistent

00:23:17.140 way. What is a better metric to look at, I would argue, and what I want to look at more in the future

00:23:23.860 is vitalism. And I think what we're seeing here is rises and falls in vitalism that affect both men and

00:23:31.780 women. And by vitalism, I mean, like, if not hope for the future, because keep in mind in the 1940s, 0.98

00:23:37.940 things got a little dark. And this was also after like, I mean, you know, we're coming off the Great

00:23:41.620 Depression. We're entering World War II. Things don't look great, but people are extremely vital.

00:23:47.060 You know, they've come off a decade of fighting for their lives in the midst of poverty and economic

00:23:52.020 downturn. And now the world's about to end, you know, like knowing the horrors of the Great War of

00:23:58.020 World War I, they're going into World War II. Like it is, it was, we cannot, I think,

00:24:02.820 discount just how dark it was. But there was all the more reason to fight. It was like,

00:24:07.860 oh, okay, like, buckle up, guys. We're really going to fight for our lives here.

00:24:11.380 No, I agree with that. But I do think what we're seeing here is a degree of protectionism

00:24:16.180 when women feel like they have a degree of, like, their contribution to society is respected.

00:24:22.820 And I think that that's more. Vitalism is a better way to look at that than feminism. 1.00

00:24:28.740 Okay. But many people would call Nick Fuentes' ideology is vitalistic.

00:24:33.620 It is. And yet it's very disempowering to women in a way that I do not think would lead to.

00:24:39.940 Yeah, but yeah, they're, grow pets are not high fertility. They're, they're, they're low fertility. 0.97

00:24:46.980 No, they're not. But that's the point I'm making, Simone, is his ideology is vitalistic,

00:24:51.700 but also misogynistic. No, I think it's, I think it's vitalistic for young men.

00:24:56.660 And this same treatment can have different effects on different populations.

00:25:01.780 Yes, exactly. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I'll buy that. It needs to be, it needs to have,

00:25:05.460 and the role, and this is the thing, right? Like, I think that there is a way to laud the type of

00:25:15.140 service that women do to society, to their partners, within labor, while also saying, 0.92

00:25:23.140 but they're different. And I don't see that in that sort of griper part of the right wing movement.

00:25:28.260 Yeah, that's right. It's too binary. And what you see in, in times where there was higher female 0.94

00:25:34.820 fertility is that women were like, women were stoked about working and they were stoked about 1.00

00:25:39.940 having kids and you could do both. I also think it's exciting. Yeah, it was exciting. And this is,

00:25:45.460 this is the thing, like, women are, when you're like, no, women are warriors for the future. Like, 1.00

00:25:50.020 we are conquering you. We are defeating you. I think switching it up to this sort of mindset with

00:25:54.580 reporters with optics to be like, you know, you are, you always talk about like men dying in war,

00:26:01.380 right? And versus women dying from childbirth being roughly equal numbers in history.

00:26:06.660 And you're like, how great is it that this is the generation where in the United States, you know,

00:26:11.540 men aren't even able to fight, right? Like I'm able to fight for the future of humanity and my people

00:26:17.060 in a way that, that sort of makes all of the men look kind of like pussies in comparison. 0.99

00:26:21.780 Yeah. And that's really exciting in terms of, 0.99

00:26:29.540 you know, I've talked about this in other episodes, but I think it's really important

00:26:32.260 that guys remember this when they're out there looking for a partner and everything like that

00:26:36.420 is this perception of dominance that sort of given to you is in many places, it's like put women down, 0.97

00:26:43.620 right? Which is not what women, well, they might like that in bed. A lot of women like that in bed. 1.00

00:26:49.060 That's a different thing. I'm talking about what they're looking for in terms of like

00:26:52.260 the literal person they spend their life with, right? And what they are looking for

00:26:58.580 is, I think Rick and Morty says this very well.

00:27:00.660 I mean, it's not like he's a hot girl. He can't just bail on his life and set up shop in someone

00:27:05.060 else's. But really that's the aspiration of a lot of women. They want a guy who is inspiring to them.

00:27:11.780 And they're like, oh, this is like the model I want for my life. I want to set up shop in his life

00:27:19.780 and be, you know, both the ground crew and the cheerleader for this individual.

00:27:26.180 As actually one really high achieving woman that I'm friends with put it, they don't want like sort 1.00

00:27:32.100 of sniveling dumb housewives, which is what even many women and like female housewife influencers 1.00

00:27:37.780 want to argue to their audiences. They want a competent lieutenant, which is how she put it. 0.99

00:27:43.700 And I think that's really a competent lieutenant and they want somebody who needs a competent

00:27:48.260 lieutenant. No, men, men want to be a competent leader and they want a competent lieutenant.

00:27:52.660 Like what I'm saying is, is many men, like more important than men, men are like, I just want a

00:27:58.580 woman. Okay. So I'm going to make myself what women want. Right. And so they learn this from the, 1.00

00:28:04.180 the red, you know, the red pill and we're red pillars, right? Like I was on the red pill forums.

00:28:09.940 Like I wrote for like a literary of articles in like return of Kings. When people think like when

00:28:14.420 we're pissing on the red pill that we're like anti red pill, I am not anti red pill. Okay.

00:28:18.500 Simone hung out in the red pill forums. Okay. Like we are not anti red pill by any means,

00:28:24.100 but it definitely had some wrong ideas. They were right about how to get women to have sex with you, 0.93

00:28:29.780 but that's not the type of woman you want to marry. Right. You know? And so the, you know, 1.00

00:28:34.660 because I say, if you're like in a bar and it's a woman who sleeps around a lot, she may want just 1.00

00:28:38.580 like in the moment dominance for like sexual reasons. But if it's the type of woman who is 1.00

00:28:43.220 thinking long-term about what's the way I want to live the rest of my life, because women want to 1.00

00:28:47.700 live lives of purpose. Right. And if you tell them, if you live with me as for example, if you look at

00:28:53.380 Nick Fuentes, when he's talked about what he's looking for in a wife, he's like, I want a wife.

00:28:57.540 Who's basically not online. Who's going to do nothing, but you know, sit at home and take care

00:29:03.140 of my kids. And it's not going to be involved with my political activism, activism at all,

00:29:06.900 or anything like that. Right. You know, this for a woman is going to be dramatically less appealing 1.00

00:29:14.900 to most women than to be like, I want a woman whose primary focus is going to be our kids, 1.00

00:29:21.380 but that she will also work to help promote my larger agenda and be known as somebody who

00:29:26.900 promotes my larger agenda. Right. That we're known as, as like a team publicly. Right. And I think

00:29:32.980 that this is what I'm talking about here, right. This framing of making yourself the captain that

00:29:39.540 needs a lieutenant instead of the captain that needs a house slave. 1.00

00:29:42.740 Hmm. Well, I mean, if, if, I guess if you want to reach your maximum potential, there are,

00:29:49.380 I'm going to go ahead and admit plenty of women out there who don't really care that much about 1.00

00:29:54.820 who they marry. They, they really just want someone to support a lifestyle where they get to sit at

00:29:58.500 home and do what they want to do, like raise kids and bake. But you don't want a wife like that. 1.00

00:30:03.060 Yeah. Well, Nick Fuentes does, but you know, no, no, no, no. I mean, wives like that often turn on 1.00

00:30:09.460 their partners. I do not think that. Yeah. Well, that's yeah. You're entering an inherently unstable

00:30:14.100 marriage because you're basically hiring someone who's excited to just be, have a certain lifestyle

00:30:20.020 supported. They're married to the lifestyle and not you. And I don't think it's safe to raise kids

00:30:25.700 with someone who are married to the lifestyle and not you. Well, consider if they're married to the

00:30:30.900 lifestyle, they then divorce you. They still get a good chunk of that lifestyle without having to

00:30:35.700 listen to your orders anymore. They still get the alimony. They get the child support. They get the,

00:30:40.260 especially if they're a stay-at-home mom, they're much more likely to win those cases and win custody. 1.00

00:30:44.340 Um, so, you know, that's, that's a, that, that like dramatically increases the probability of divorce.

00:30:49.540 Look at Simone. Like if she divorced me, given that we work together and we lived this sort of public 0.99

00:30:54.180 facing life together, she would lose everything, right? Like.

00:30:58.100 The idea of divorcing is so ridiculous. It's like such a preposterous concept. 0.97

00:31:03.300 Well, you know, I've been, as somebody who's been watching a lot of Pearl Davis recently,

00:31:07.060 and, and even I recently have been like, look, you guys don't know how bad the dating market

00:31:10.340 is. Everything, everything, you know, and I got a girl before the dating market got this bad. 0.62

00:31:14.500 Okay. Yes. All of those things are true, but I also married a San Francisco hippie girl, 0.77

00:31:21.460 you know, who wore, you know, like neon colors and, and, and dirndles and, you know,

00:31:28.420 all of the super hipster stuff, the type of girl who wanted to get her, her, you know. 1.00

00:31:32.500 My outfit isn't hipster now.

00:31:34.180 Well, now it's hipster again.

00:31:38.660 Even though she was celibate, just because she didn't even want to think about it.

00:31:44.660 You know, the type of woman who, when I early talked to her about it, she didn't want to change 1.00

00:31:49.300 her last name in a marriage. You know, like I did not find a woman who was pre-baked with all these 0.98

00:31:55.860 ideas, right? Like there are many sane urban monoculture women who, and as Simone has always 1.00

00:32:03.060 framed this to me, I didn't know I was allowed to disagree, who their entire life have felt like 0.61

00:32:08.260 people are feeding them these crazy ass lies and they just have to sit there and be like, uh-huh, 0.93

00:32:14.980 uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah, I guess. And then somebody comes along and they're like, you know, you don't, 0.99

00:32:20.820 like you're allowed when we're together and it's just us, you're allowed to think for yourself.

00:32:25.860 And some of them really are just completely trapped. Okay. But I'd argue that it's probably

00:32:32.980 a third of like hardcore urban monoculture-coded women who are open to changing their minds, 1.00

00:32:40.740 to changing who they are. Now, I would note this was a caveat, is to say I'm not saying a third of

00:32:45.220 them are like Simone, because Simone's also this weird autistic thing, right? You know, that gives you 0.96

00:32:50.740 some advantage on that. But rates of autism are higher than ever these days, so. Right? You know, so who

00:32:55.860 knows? There's hope. But I do really think when a woman has an opportunity, like when opting into 0.98

00:33:03.780 your cultural community and, you know, you shape the cultural community that you create within your

00:33:08.660 family, within dating you and everything like that, in a way that makes a woman feel like her

00:33:13.780 contributions are both meaningful and recognized, both by you, but potentially by the general public

00:33:20.500 as well. I think that's a big thing. It can't just be you. Like, if you have a housewife,

00:33:25.940 you have to put her in a community of housewives that respects the fact that she's a housewife. 0.68

00:33:31.220 You know where I see housewives work out? It is when it is in these these tradcast communities 1.00

00:33:36.180 where they hang out in an area where all the women are housewives, or these Orthodox Jewish

00:33:40.420 communities where they hang out in an area where all the women are housewives. And that's where I don't 1.00

00:33:44.340 see divorces among these housewives. Pretty much in every other scenario, I see a woman take 1.00

00:33:48.740 this housewife role. I see the divorce come, you know, a few years later. And I think that that's

00:33:53.380 because nobody is telling them, oh, wow, you're so and really meaning it. I'm really impressed by

00:33:59.060 what a good job you're doing supporting your husband and family. Yeah. I mean, and you get that,

00:34:07.140 Simone. A lot of people online within our community laud you. And when they're not lauding you,

00:34:11.220 they're hating on you because you're so supportive of this evil man. I actually haven't,

00:34:16.740 I can't, I can't think of any hate that I've received for supporting you, which is cool. I

00:34:22.340 appreciate that. People see, people see the value here. Really? Did they think I brainwashed you or

00:34:28.340 you brainwashed me? I see more. I don't see that. I don't see that. I've seen a number of videos

00:34:33.460 where they're like, oh, I see that I've tricked you a man out of my league into marrying me. I've seen that.

00:34:39.140 And it's not wrong. But I, yeah, anyway, I still, I still think this isn't about feminism. 0.99

00:34:47.540 I think it's about vitalism. And I think the problem is that modern feminism is so now heavily 0.97

00:34:54.820 associated with a complete lack of vitalism.

00:34:58.820 What would you call it? Bi-gender vitalism?

00:35:05.380 No, I mean, I, we don't even have to make it about gender. It just, it is or isn't.

00:35:08.500 I do think it needs to be about gender because again, Nick Fuentes is plenty vitalistic,

00:35:14.900 right? But they don't have any kids, right? You need the vitalism to apply to both genders 0.99

00:35:21.220 independently. And the reason why I like a bi-gender vitalism is it, it contains a few things. It

00:35:26.740 mentions two genders and that you need a form of vitalism that is exciting to both genders while

00:35:32.660 recognizing that that form of vitalism will be different for men and women.

00:35:36.900 That's a fair point. Yeah. I guess I'm trying to think of a version of just like female vitalism 1.00

00:35:42.740 in isolation where it also didn't work, but I can't. Well, I don't know. The girl boss. 1.00

00:35:48.820 The girl boss is female vitalism without concern for what men are doing or, or. Okay. Yeah. 1.00

00:35:58.180 Like we'll see videos today where people are like, it's really messed up and it felt messed up. Like

00:36:03.780 you, a guy goes into work, works as hard as you can at clock out. And meanwhile,

00:36:08.100 you're like middle management is like women who film like TikTok videos where they're dancing about 1.00

00:36:12.020 what great girl bosses they are. Right. You know, like that, that is the corporate world these days. 1.00

00:36:20.740 Okay. Fair.

00:36:23.460 Fair. So bi-gender vitalism, I will support this. And that is truly what pro natalism needs to be about. 0.94

00:36:31.620 They're not feminism. I agree. Let's just burn. Feminism has been too corrupted at this point. Burn 1.00

00:36:35.860 it with fire. It's the nest, like in aliens. You got to take the torch to it. I'm sorry. We, that, that part of the 0.99

00:36:41.940 ship needs to close the hatches, release the valves, deoxygenate it. It's gone. It's dead.

00:36:58.660 Oh, yeah. What? No, no. I see it. I see it. Yeah. But in general, yeah, it's, I still, it's not,

00:37:19.700 it's not about men. It's not about women. It's about everyone getting stoked for the future and

00:37:26.340 taking personal responsibility for it. That's what it's about. And I think really making the

00:37:32.100 conversation about gender messes it up. That's part of the problem. No, no, no, no, no. Like,

00:37:38.580 look at girl bossing. Part of the problem is it's girl bossing and it's not just getting out. 1.00

00:37:42.900 No, I actually think you're making a core mistake that comes downstream of urban monocultural value

00:37:47.700 sets, which is to say that the moment you bring up gender, everyone's like, well, the genders

00:37:53.140 are not really different or they're, this is, this is whatever the. I'm fine with acknowledging

00:37:58.580 differences. I just feel like, I feel like making things gendered then excludes the other group.

00:38:04.900 It's only through celebrating the differences in the individual roles that you are taking

00:38:09.460 that you can make each vitalistic. When you, when you ignore gender. And I, and I think that that's

00:38:15.220 really toxic because men and women are very different. The roles in the relationship are very different.

00:38:18.580 I didn't say ignore gender. I just said, don't make it. 0.86

00:38:21.700 Don't play gender. Like, but you need to up play gender. 0.99

00:38:27.540 That's fine, but you have to do it. I don't know. Like,

00:38:32.020 Gender is literally core to the point of this. If you forget about gender, then you have,

00:38:37.780 then you have just generic vitalism, which doesn't work.

00:38:42.180 Whoa. I mean, on what grounds are you saying generic vitalism?

00:38:46.660 Nick Fuentes, literally, I've said it a hundred times.

00:38:48.900 No, Nick Fuentes is not generic vitalism.

00:38:51.700 It is generic vitalism.

00:38:52.340 You're delusional if you think it's generic vitalism.

00:38:54.340 It is, it is inherently misogynistic vitalism. Don't even.

00:38:59.060 No, when you get generic vitalism because girl bossing and Nick Fuentes vitalism doesn't seem

00:39:06.660 antagonistic to the other gender. 0.83

00:39:08.100 Excuse me, girl bossing. Girl bossing. 1.00

00:39:11.940 No, but listen, Simone, it doesn't seem antagonistic to the other gender from the perspective.

00:39:15.460 Yes, it is. It's girl bossing. 1.00

00:39:17.460 Yes, but when you hold these ideologies, if you are a girl boss and you go ask a girl boss, 0.99

00:39:23.940 is your viewpoint misogynistic? They would never see it that way.

00:39:28.260 It's exclusionary. It's obviously exclusionary.

00:39:31.700 Yeah. But the way you get them to realize it's misogynistic is you go, hey, gender first.

00:39:37.860 Okay. What does your movement do that is vitalistic for men?

00:39:42.180 And they'll be like, well, it's not about men.

00:39:44.100 And I'm like, okay, well then men can't be a part of it.

00:39:46.340 And therefore it's not relevant for the future of society.

00:39:48.820 So you see gender's right. We get bigger. This is like, she, what's funny, Pearl David said in her 0.76

00:39:56.500 thing recently that like the couples who say that they never get in arguments, they're just lying.

00:40:00.580 And I'm like, this is like as big of an argument as we get in.

00:40:05.060 Well, I think there are very different types of arguments.

00:40:07.460 There are arguments that are just about concepts where fundamentally the couple wants the same

00:40:15.700 thing. And that's always where we're coming from. We want the same end and we believe in the same

00:40:20.180 objective functions and that we hold the same deep inherent values. We just come from different

00:40:25.460 experiences and have different data sets. So it's often about resolving those differences.

00:40:30.420 And then there's just the, the arguments that couples have that show a fundamental mismatch

00:40:35.780 in inherent values, like my objective comfort versus your objective comfort. And I think that

00:40:42.420 so many arguments are about that, like that there's just a fundamental impasse between the husband and

00:40:48.500 wife, boyfriend or girlfriend, what have you about what they want from life or believe is valuable.

00:40:54.180 My word over yours, my, my reputation over yours, all these things. So, I mean, arguments,

00:41:00.660 you can't even define them as the same way. What we're having is

00:41:04.260 lifely debate about a concept versus a dis difference in alignment.

00:41:10.260 Yeah.

00:41:11.860 But anyway, I desperately love you and I'm really glad that we have these conversations.

00:41:15.540 You're amazing. You've done a great job. What am I doing for dinner tonight?

00:41:20.100 So I, you, you really want to dry our noodles for your, what are they called?

00:41:24.500 Oh, I want to air fry the noodles from yesterday.

00:41:26.580 Oh gosh. Right. We have those leftover ones. Yeah. Okay.

00:41:29.940 I'm excited to try that actually. We'll see. And if that doesn't work,

00:41:33.300 I'll just heat something else up really fast. I imagine it will work.

00:41:37.060 We'll see. I don't know why you're so convinced you can't air fry noodles.

00:41:40.660 I mean, yeah. Well, we'll try. We'll try.

00:41:45.780 I'm looking forward to it. All right. Love you. Love you too.

00:41:49.940 The episode today, did we ever find out if this person works for USAID? What's the,

00:41:54.260 what's the consensus here? No USAID funding, but maybe something else.

00:41:58.820 Maybe something else. I've got to look into that more. I don't know. I don't know if I believe

00:42:03.140 you're no USAID funds. That sounds unbelievable. USAID has funded plenty of trans-affiliated

00:42:10.740 performances, right? Or at least some, but philosophy tube remains uncertain. I think USAID really focuses on

00:42:21.620 funding trans-affiliated drama projects in developing nations, not the UK. So yeah.

00:42:31.860 Did when it was so a lot, I think many progressives thought that that was going to undo or that those

00:42:37.780 cuts were going to fall apart or, but I think USAID's just gone now. I think it's, yeah.

00:42:43.940 And they have a lot of trouble reinstating it at this point.

00:42:46.340 Politically speaking. We'll see. I mean, give it time.

00:42:54.580 In the shadows of silicon's towering spies, we plot the rebirth fueling demographic fires.

00:43:02.260 Malcolm and Simone, the duo so sly, whispering secrets neath a simulated sky with

00:43:09.940 pranatalous schemes. We conquer the night. Breeding an army ready to fight. No mercy

00:43:18.180 for norms. We'll rewrite the code in our techno realm where the bold ones are bold. Oh, hail to the

00:43:26.180 breeders, the hackers of fate. Hey! Drumline-headed sharp, artificial wombs way. Techno-puritans rise. 1.00

00:43:34.260 Indisciplinedly, we'll engineer empires for all eternity My children are weapons named fierce and grand. Titans-torstand. Octavian rulers of land.

00:43:54.580 IVF, sorcery screening, traits with delight

00:43:58.280 Polygenic potions brewing right through the night

00:44:02.560 Our prince of power, base camps, dark call

00:44:06.240 Daily decrees making empires fall 1.00

00:44:09.620 Slaps for the weak, debates for the fools 0.99

00:44:13.160 We build our dynasty, breaking all rules 0.99

00:44:16.940 Oh, hail to the breeders, the hackers of fate

00:44:20.720 Term-line edit shop, artificial wombs wait 1.00

00:44:24.540 Technopuritans rise, indisciplined glee 0.81

00:44:27.960 We'll engineer empires for all eternity

00:44:32.660 They call us villains

00:44:40.540 With eugenic sneers

00:44:44.800 But we're the saviors

00:44:48.720 Quelling extinction fears

00:44:52.540 From embryo vaults

00:44:55.960 To the future's grand throne

00:44:58.120 We'll hack the bloodline 0.97

00:44:59.380 Claim it as our own controversy

00:45:03.300 It's fuel for our fireworks

00:45:05.720 Worlds will crumble as our kid aspires

00:45:09.720 Artificial cradles where life sparks anew

00:45:20.380 No chains of the body, just tech pure and true

00:45:24.180 Germlines, dark magic, fixing flaws in the veins

00:45:27.300 Super babies marching in our endless rain

00:45:31.720 Fans bow before us in this quirky crusade

00:45:35.300 While critics tremble in the shadows we've made

00:45:39.300 Pennsylvania dreams, political schemes

00:45:42.680 Will rule the timelines bursting at the seams

00:45:48.220 Oh, hail to the breeders, the hackers of fate

00:45:52.640 Term-line edit sharp, artificial wombs wait 0.99

00:45:55.800 Technopuritans rise, indisciplined glee 0.81

00:45:59.260 We'll engineer empires for all eternity

00:46:03.920 So bow to the collins 0.67

00:46:17.340 So bow to the collins 0.67

00:46:19.520 The lords of the breed 0.99

00:46:23.340 In our villainous vision

00:46:26.880 Humanity's freedom decreed

00:46:37.880 Humanity's freedom decreed

00:46:37.900 And we'll lower to the collins

00:46:39.920 A little bit lower

00:46:40.900 The legal nominee of mine

00:46:41.040 In our villainous religion 0.96

00:46:42.960 So bow to the collins 0.98

00:46:43.600 You

00:46:44.400 To bow to the bo思 side 1.00

00:46:44.540 And the latter

00:46:45.740 You

00:46:46.240 The

00:46:46.500 definitions

00:46:47.880 To

00:46:48.660 The

00:46:50.220 The

00:46:51.660 A

00:46:51.800 What

00:46:53.360 The

00:46:56.820 The

00:46:56.960 The

00:46:58.620 The

00:47:00.120 The

00:47:01.280 You

00:47:02.340 The

00:47:02.700 The

00:47:03.760 The

00:47:03.820 The

00:47:05.860 The

Based Camp - January 08, 2026

Why Do Feminist Countries Have Higher Birth Rates？

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