Why Do Feminist Countries Have Higher Birth Rates？
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Summary
In this episode, we look at the decline in fertility rates between 1835-1850, and compare that with the birth of the baby boom in the US and other Western countries. We also look at countries where women entered the workforce, and why this may explain why fertility rates fell so rapidly.
Transcript
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Hello, Simone. I am excited to be here with you today. Today, we are going to be doing one of
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those things where I noticed something in the data and I ignore it. And then I think about it for a
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bit and I'm like, wait a second, I should pay a lot more attention to this than I am. So one of
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the graphs that I often like to show is a graph of falling fertility rates since the 1800s. And when
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the feminist movement really began to pick up steam to show that the vast majority of fertility
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collapse happened before the feminist movement began to pick up steam. But then I had this
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notice in my head when I was thinking, I was like, you know, I just noticed something about when
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feminism starts in this movement, which is fertility collapse goes down dramatically
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the moment feminism starts in every country, but the UK, by the way. So here I have on screen a
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chart of fertility collapse within the United States. And what you can see, Simone, I'm sure
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you're familiar with this one. No, I know this one that sort of shows also France seeing a really
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rapid decline. No, it's not that one. It's the one in the United States. Okay. Yeah. So what you see
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here is fertility rates go down really rapidly between 1835 and 1850, like as rapidly as after
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the baby boom. And then they go like directly downwards. You have this incredibly fast fertility
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downwards motion from 1835 to around 18, I'm sorry, 1935 or no, 1940 is about when it ends. Yeah. So it
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ends at 1940. So do you guys know what happened to happen during 1940 or what happened in the 1920s,
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1920s, women got the right to vote. 1940s is not just when you had the baby boom, but also when you
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had a pretty big feminist wave going into World War II. Yeah. Women were working in the factories.
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They were entering the workforce in record numbers, right? It was pretty. Yeah. And what we're going to
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go over here in this episode is countries where women entered the workforce versus countries where
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women didn't enter the workforce. And what you might be surprised about is it's very correlatory
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with those countries, whether or not the countries had a baby boom might actually be the explanatory
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phenomenon of the baby boom. We've been looking at is whether or not female empowerment may have been
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what happened to the baby boom. And what's also very interesting is if you ignore, so let's say
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in this graph, I'm going to ignore the baby boom and then the, the bust infertility rates after the baby
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boom, fertility rates look pretty stable from 1940 to 2023. Yeah. You see a bit of a downwards motion.
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If you were to put a single graphical line between that, but not very big. If you contrast it with
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any period between 1835 and 1940. Yeah. If you really blur your vision, it just kind of looks like
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we hit a floor and, and stayed there. We know that that's not a floor because Korea has gone well
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below that floor. No, I mean, obviously, but like in the U S like that floor too. Okay. So, and there's
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other videos where we have other hypotheses for the baby boom. We hypothesize it could have been less
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babies dying. I think that's probably the biggest factor, but it didn't happen in every country. So
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it couldn't be just that we have a video where we argue that it's nationalism, sort of sci-fi pop
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culture, futurism of the 1950s, that that didn't occur in some other countries, but here we're going
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to say that. And I still think all of those things played a role. They were going to say another thing
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that may have played a role as female empowerment, but let's not just look at this slide. Let's now look
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at some European countries here. Okay. Okay. So if we look at France in the UK,
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in terms of fertility bus, what you see in France is that fertility rates have been
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like, they go down dramatically between 1750 and 1800. They are then stable from 1800 to around 1870.
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And then they go down a bunch between 1870 and around 1920. And then from 1920 until the recent
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fertility drops, they have been stable. Oh. You have this graph as well, Simone. I sent it to you.
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That's interesting. 1920 was around when the Medal of Motherhood in France was first launched,
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Now let's look at England and Wales. Does it buck the trend? Kind of. England and Wales has like a
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growing fertility until you get to like the 18... Well, it's stable, I want to say, from like 1835,
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like in the US when it began to go down, up to like 1860 or 70. Then you have the massive decrease
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between 1860 and 70 and like 1930. And then you have another massive decrease after that. So
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England is the only country that really appears to buck this particular trend. And I also note here,
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one of the things that's very important to remember when we're looking at this data is that in the baby
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boom, the baby boom really starts in the countries where it started in the United States and stuff like
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that typically a little bit before the war and picks up steam during the war. Not, not after the war.
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Uh, which would align with this hypothesis a lot more. Now, before we start going into that stuff,
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I just need to go over the, the broad statistics that you should know if you're a fan, because we
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have talked about this before. This is not just a phenomenon that you see here. There was a study
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done by Aria Babu where she did a chart in Europe about when people's views towards motherhood.
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And what you see is it's a light inverse correlation, but it isn't an inverse correlation
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between how misogynistic or how, how gender equal the views were about motherhood role
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and the fertility rate of the country in Europe.
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It's somewhat subtle. I mean, she looked at, at people, like how people responded in,
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in surveys to questions like, it hurts the children if the mother works. Though that is pretty,
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you know, in the end, but, but that is subtle. But the larger point being is if you then just
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look with your eyes at a map of Europe and you look at the low fertility countries versus the
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high fertility countries, I'll just put a map of fertility rates from Europe here.
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What you'll see is you could, you could overlap. This was a map of gender equality, right? Like
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yeah. Northern Europe has much higher fertility rates. France has uniquely high fertility rates.
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Yeah. Really low fertility rates are countries like Spain and Italy and Eastern Europe. All of
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the places that you associate with being more misogynistic. Yeah. Totally. It's also true of
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the developed, the developed world. Look at the uniquely high fertility countries in the developed
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world, like the United States, like Australia, like Northern Europe, like Israel, and then contrast
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them with the uniquely low developed, the low fertility rate countries like South Korea, like
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Japan, like China. These countries have, are dramatically less gender equal. South Korea has
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nothing close to the gender egalitarianism of the United States. Japan has nothing close. China has
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nothing close. Absolutely. Or Europe. So, so you, you also see this in like the broader macro trends,
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but I want to trace this in terms of within the United States and then pull up some more evidence here.
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Then we're going to try to figure out what the is causing this. It is an interesting phenomenon.
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And it's, I think bigger than I thought it was. I always blew it off. It's just like an easy
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talking point. So we don't have to deal with reporters calling us feminists. I'm sorry.
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You're misogynists. But now it's, it's very annoying because the very first thing that
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pretty much any progressive is going to do in talking about the prenatalist movement or demographic
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collapse is talking about how well, and therefore what anyone who fights for,
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who fights against demographic collapse is going to fight against women's rights. And we're like,
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clearly that's not what anyone's doing here and you're wrong. Leave us alone. And so it's really
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nice to be able to, to troll, to take these things out, but it's also, it is a little counterintuitive,
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even to us who don't see disempowering women as the solution, because you would think that the
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more women feel like let's, let's go to work and not have kids, which often runs counter to going to
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work, you know, that you're going to have lower fertility. What's going on?
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Yeah. And, and I, I, I note here that the, the increase in pregnancies associated with the baby
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boom was associated with an increase in female labor participation in the countries where it
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happened. If you look at other countries where we've seen a rapid fertility collapse, like India
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in the nineties, and you track the percent of each gender in the workforce, you do not see an increase
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in female labor participation over this time. So that does not appear associated. But the bigger
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question is, it's like, that's weird, right? Like shouldn't it be? Yeah. And also I'm not here
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going to be like the pronatalist movement is whatever they're calling feminist today, right?
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It is whatever feminism meant in the past, you know, and, and, and that's something I'm willing
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to stand. Right. But I'm not willing to stand this modern, weird feminist stuff. I do actually think
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that is directly harmful to fertility. I think, you know, I've been watching some Pearl
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Davis content recently about, I don't know, traditional conservatives forcing the tricking
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guys into getting married to modern women without knowing what they're getting into. And like,
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she's got a point. Like feminism has made women kind of crazy recently.
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Right. But I think the feminism has become a moored with what at least most people were
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raised to believe was feminism. Sorry. And it has become just sort of shorthand for urban monoculture,
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which I would argue is not, is not inherently feminist. At least, I mean, I don't know. Did,
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did you grow up believing that feminism was about equal rights and equal responsibilities?
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Cause that's what I thought it was. That's what I thought. I'm okay with that. You know,
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I thought like, okay, well, I mean, obviously, yeah. Like women should get
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well, like women should be drafted. Like women should also serve on the front lines. Like,
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if that's how we're going to do it, let's do it. Okay. But that's not what it is.
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I also thought feminism meant like acknowledging that men and women are different, right? Like
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that you understood that women and men have different biologies and that's fine.
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different predilections, you know, but to continue here. Okay. So key developments in the 1920s,
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in the 1920s, that is when women got the right to vote in the United States. Although voter turnout was
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relatively low, the national women's party, the NWP led by Alice Paul remained active,
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focusing on broader equal rights. They successfully lobbied for the Cable Act in 1922,
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protecting women's citizenship after marrying foreigners and introduced the Equal Rights
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Amendment ERA in Congress in 1923, though it faced opposition from groups favoring gender specific
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protections. The NWP also organized international conferences, pageants, and campaigns like Women
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in Congress to boost female political candidates. Now we've done another episode on this, but the
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majority of the anti-suffrage movement was actually female and that the average woman was more anti-suffrage
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than they were pro-suffrage. If you want to get into this, it was really men who ended up pushing
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women's vote through. If you want to get into this, we have a video where we go through a lot of historic
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quotes on this. It's so funny how like in the end, when it comes to anything getting done,
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there's a man behind it. Like even the fat acceptance movement, in the end, it was just a
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bunch of chubby chasers who were dudes instead of like women trying to... This is also when you had
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the flapper movement with shorter skirts, smoking... Wait, was that motivated by men? No, no, that's just
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another feminist movement you had. Oh, just yeah, yeah, yeah. Before there were flappers, there was
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a Gibson girl, which was this sort of empowered working woman, also a style icon. So there were
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rumblings of it. This built up slowly over time. I think it ultimately exploded with workforce demand
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for women. Part of what my intuition has like as just a theory of something maybe at play is that
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something that non-trivially affects fertility beyond just culture being like the one thing that will do
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it no matter what is enthusiasm and hope for the future of like, hey, things are good. Money's
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coming in, line go up, number go up, things like that. And I could see women getting jobs and feeling
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like they are empowered personally, make them feel more comfortable with having more kids. And even if
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you're a woman living in like a super, you know, like oppressive country that is allegedly forcing you to
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have kids, there are ways that women can not have kids, you know, like no matter what, how much your
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birth control is curtailed, there are ways that you can suppress your fertility. And I'm not even
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talking about like, you know, taking strong teas and stuff to, to instigate an early pregnancy loss.
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I'm talking about like, you can maintain a really low weight so that you don't have periods. Like there,
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there's so many things you can do. And women have been doing this for very, very long.
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The drop happened before the, the 1920s. Yeah. And so what I'm thinking here is that,
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you know, in the end, like women really do get to choose how their fertility goes.
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And I could just see women being like, you know what, things are good. I feel comfortable having
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a kid. I'm going to do it. Like, you know, maybe my husband will die in the war. I can get a job,
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like whatever, like, or, you know, I, I feel like the, the, the future is bright. Let's do it. Or
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like my, my husband's about to get deployed. Like, let's have a kid now. Like, I don't know, but
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I do feel like there's sort of this vitality did contribute to that in the 1940s in the U S at least.
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What do you think? No, I completely agree. And what I'm going to put on screen here is a graph of
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whether or not there was labor force participation by women in each country and what, how much of a baby
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boom they experienced post-war. And really what you see is this is pretty much one-to-one
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was the only exception in countries that were in the Soviet Union, which didn't experience the baby
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boom and did have this sort of forced equality of early communism. But they, they lacked nationalism
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and a national identity, which I think is why, if you watch our video on how nationalism helps,
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why they didn't have the strong booms. So this is another reason why I think the left is really
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going to continue suffering with fertility because they assume any form of pride or nationalism as
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just fascism. And they just say, fashion is fascism is bad. So like they can't, they're not allowed to be
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proud. And if they're, if you're not proud of who you are, how can you possibly motivate fertility?
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Exactly. So let's, let's go through this chart here. Okay. And then I'm going to go over to,
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if I said that they were high or medium or low, why they were higher, medium or low in the United States,
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you had a high labor force participation by women and it had a 0.8 boom. One of the largest
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in Canada, you had a high participation. It had a 0.48 boom in Australia. You had a high
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participation. It had a 0.79 boom in New Zealand. You had high participation and it had a really high
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boom 0.8 in the United Kingdom. You had relatively high participation and it's one of the only, you had a
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medium boom 0.5. In France, you had medium participation and you had fairly low boom 0.4.
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In Sweden, you had low female participation. You had no boom really 0.22. In Switzerland,
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you had low participation. You have virtually no boom 0.2. In Spain, you had low female participation.
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You had pretty much no boom 0.2. In Portugal, you had low participation. You had no boom at all 0.
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In Germany, you had medium participation, 0.3, so a low boom. Italy, you had low participation,
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0.2, so low. In Japan, you had low participation and you had pretty much no boom 0.1. So let's go
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over these arguments here. Where are these participation rates coming from? In the United
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States, LFP rose from 28% pre-war to 34% to 36% at peak. It increased to 6% to 8%. Over 6 million
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women entered the workforce. Government campaigns heavily promoted it. And this was heavily done
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through advertising as well, creating female empowerment to the resi, the riveter campaigns,
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and stuff like that. In Canada, employment numbers doubled from 600,000 permanent jobs pre-war to 1.2
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million at peak. A proportional increase of 10% to 15% from up to 25% or 35% to 40%, depending on what you're
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looking at. Australia, it went from 25% pre-war to 35% at peak. That was pretty high. New Zealand,
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again, one of the high ones, similar to Australian, 8% to 10% of women in the industry pre-war and then
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substantially like double after that. United Kingdom rose from 26% to 36%, a 10% increase.
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If you're looking at France, it actually saw only a moderate increase of 5% to 7%. If you look at Sweden,
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it was stable rates. In Switzerland, you had, again, stable. But what's interesting about
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Switzerland and Sweden is they already had high female participation, 30% to 35%. But I guess because
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it didn't go up, you didn't get the increase in females' perception of themselves, maybe.
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In Spain, you had low 20% to 25% compared to what it was pre-war. Portugal, you had low 20%.
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Germany pre-war was already high at 51% and then dropped at 41% due to Nazi ideology. So that's
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interesting. I mean, also the left constantly frames Nazi ideology as being very motivational
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toward fertility. Yeah. Well, also keep in mind, they had a fertility boom in the side of the country
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that the allies controlled. Italy was low, an increase of 3% to 5%. And Japan was low, an increase
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of 5%. And we can also see some other countries that undergo an inversion of this. All right. So
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if you look at China, for example, they famously had to work pretty hard to knock their fertility
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rates down during the one child movement. And during that time period, the Communist Party and
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the culture in China tried really hard to promote women with women hold up half the sky movement that
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went from like the 1950s to 1960s and stuff like that. If you look at when fertility randomly began
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to decline in the United States, it was around the 1970s and then declined a ton recently. What are
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things that have increased recently in China is more traditional gender roles. Gender roles have been
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moving in the post-communist era to more traditional, more misogynistic roles. And with that, we've seen a
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unique crash in fertility rates. And also, I should note that female labor participation declined
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post the 1970s in China. Really? Yeah. Today, it's only 60%. Whoa, what? That's crazy.
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What are they doing? I guess that's a stupid question, but I don't know. That's so odd. Okay.
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Yeah. Another counter example here is Israel. Israel maintains one of the highest fertility
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rates among the developed nations, around 2.9 children per woman, despite significant progress
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in women's rights, including female labor force participation of around 60%. Now, what's interesting
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here is it's a rising participation, where in China, 60% is a falling participation. And so I think
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the women's perception of their own role in society is also relevant here. Feminist movements have been big
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in Israel, which we all know about. But it was in the cultures in Israel that treat women with less
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gender equality that you see the highest rates of fertility. But Israel is also the weird country
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where progressives have higher fertility rates. We need to dig into that eventually. I don't know
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what's going on there. So I want to hear your trends on why this is the case, how global you think this
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is. Because I do not think that this is totally global. I think if you're talking about an Islamist
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country or something like this, a lot of the, as we call them, the shadow people, these are the
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cultures, whether they be Christian or Jewish or Muslim, that have increased their fertility rate by
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you know, banning access to education, which lowers their income, which increases their fertility,
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and also decreases the probability that they're going to leave their culture. They typically treat
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all outsiders as, you know, evil so that you don't interact with them, so you don't hear their ideas,
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so you don't get deconverted. And eventually they want to replace everyone, often except for the
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Jewish groups. And so, you know, this has worked really well across a number of traditions.
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And to me, it represents everything bad about humanity. You know, they're not technologically
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productive. They're not particularly inquisitive. They hate all outsiders. They want everyone to be
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just like them eventually. They represent like the ultimate stagnation to me. And I know that one day
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we will have to fight them, the vast barbarian tribes of the world, which are only going to increase,
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because they do have high fertility. And I think that everyone needs to understand that these groups,
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even if they superficially share your values, like they're, you're a Jew and they're a Jew,
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or you're a Christian and they're a Christian, they don't actually, they're, they're, they're not
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on point, right? They will come for you eventually. And they'll even tell you that, right? Like,
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they're like, well, one day your descendants are going to have to be like me, you know that, right?
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So for these groups, I think, and many of them have already learned this, basically treating women
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like property does a very, like, like, you know, does a very good job of increasing their fertility
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rates, but it doesn't work very well. And I've talked about this. It was book two,
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in societies where women have a choice, where a woman can opt out of the married life, which you
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basically need to be an option in any society where you have sort of freedom of movement, freedom
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of labor. So I actually, I want to disagree with your first point. I don't think the data bears
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that out. I think that poverty shows that, but I actually think that when women are systematically
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disempowered, that doesn't necessarily correlate with higher fertility rates. You see this with
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Romania. I mean, at first there's a shock where they're like, oh God, like I didn't realize I'm,
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ah, but then it corrects. And then fertility rates. She's talking about Romania banning abortion
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and then fertility. I'm also referring to when, for example, Iran curtailed access to different
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types of higher education. Didn't they get a slight boost in fertility rates from them? No,
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no, it didn't. It didn't help. So. So Iran was reaching the degrees that women could get to only
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like fluffy degrees, which I think is ridiculous. Just have them only get STEM degrees. Everyone should
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only get STEM degrees. I know. I know. Well, and the funny thing is, is actually in, in,
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in cultures that are more female disempowering, you actually see higher rates of women getting,
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and at least partaking in STEM careers, because quite honestly, when you give women freedom to
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do what they want to do, they don't do the hard, the stuff that they're less predisposed to want to
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do, which turns out to be STEM stuff that, okay. This is a really complicated argument because of course,
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like originally, like women led in STEM, like in the early days of STEM or whatever, but like,
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at least in modern times, women don't seem to be predisposed to the modern form of what STEM has
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turned out to be in, in many subdomains. Aside from that, I actually think that we, we may be,
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and, and this is like, everyone is participating in this, this discourse, making a mistake by talking about
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feminism at all. Maybe feminism doesn't really matter. And we're kind of trying to apply a metric
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to the discourse and to the data that doesn't fit and doesn't ultimately correlate in any consistent
00:23:17.140
way. What is a better metric to look at, I would argue, and what I want to look at more in the future
00:23:23.860
is vitalism. And I think what we're seeing here is rises and falls in vitalism that affect both men and
00:23:31.780
women. And by vitalism, I mean, like, if not hope for the future, because keep in mind in the 1940s,
00:23:37.940
things got a little dark. And this was also after like, I mean, you know, we're coming off the Great
00:23:41.620
Depression. We're entering World War II. Things don't look great, but people are extremely vital.
00:23:47.060
You know, they've come off a decade of fighting for their lives in the midst of poverty and economic
00:23:52.020
downturn. And now the world's about to end, you know, like knowing the horrors of the Great War of
00:23:58.020
World War I, they're going into World War II. Like it is, it was, we cannot, I think,
00:24:02.820
discount just how dark it was. But there was all the more reason to fight. It was like,
00:24:07.860
oh, okay, like, buckle up, guys. We're really going to fight for our lives here.
00:24:11.380
No, I agree with that. But I do think what we're seeing here is a degree of protectionism
00:24:16.180
when women feel like they have a degree of, like, their contribution to society is respected.
00:24:22.820
And I think that that's more. Vitalism is a better way to look at that than feminism.
00:24:28.740
Okay. But many people would call Nick Fuentes' ideology is vitalistic.
00:24:33.620
It is. And yet it's very disempowering to women in a way that I do not think would lead to.
00:24:39.940
Yeah, but yeah, they're, grow pets are not high fertility. They're, they're, they're low fertility.
00:24:46.980
No, they're not. But that's the point I'm making, Simone, is his ideology is vitalistic,
00:24:51.700
but also misogynistic. No, I think it's, I think it's vitalistic for young men.
00:24:56.660
And this same treatment can have different effects on different populations.
00:25:01.780
Yes, exactly. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I'll buy that. It needs to be, it needs to have,
00:25:05.460
and the role, and this is the thing, right? Like, I think that there is a way to laud the type of
00:25:15.140
service that women do to society, to their partners, within labor, while also saying,
00:25:23.140
but they're different. And I don't see that in that sort of griper part of the right wing movement.
00:25:28.260
Yeah, that's right. It's too binary. And what you see in, in times where there was higher female
00:25:34.820
fertility is that women were like, women were stoked about working and they were stoked about
00:25:39.940
having kids and you could do both. I also think it's exciting. Yeah, it was exciting. And this is,
00:25:45.460
this is the thing, like, women are, when you're like, no, women are warriors for the future. Like,
00:25:50.020
we are conquering you. We are defeating you. I think switching it up to this sort of mindset with
00:25:54.580
reporters with optics to be like, you know, you are, you always talk about like men dying in war,
00:26:01.380
right? And versus women dying from childbirth being roughly equal numbers in history.
00:26:06.660
And you're like, how great is it that this is the generation where in the United States, you know,
00:26:11.540
men aren't even able to fight, right? Like I'm able to fight for the future of humanity and my people
00:26:17.060
in a way that, that sort of makes all of the men look kind of like pussies in comparison.
00:26:29.540
you know, I've talked about this in other episodes, but I think it's really important
00:26:32.260
that guys remember this when they're out there looking for a partner and everything like that
00:26:36.420
is this perception of dominance that sort of given to you is in many places, it's like put women down,
00:26:43.620
right? Which is not what women, well, they might like that in bed. A lot of women like that in bed.
00:26:49.060
That's a different thing. I'm talking about what they're looking for in terms of like
00:26:52.260
the literal person they spend their life with, right? And what they are looking for
00:26:58.580
is, I think Rick and Morty says this very well.
00:27:00.660
I mean, it's not like he's a hot girl. He can't just bail on his life and set up shop in someone
00:27:05.060
else's. But really that's the aspiration of a lot of women. They want a guy who is inspiring to them.
00:27:11.780
And they're like, oh, this is like the model I want for my life. I want to set up shop in his life
00:27:19.780
and be, you know, both the ground crew and the cheerleader for this individual.
00:27:26.180
As actually one really high achieving woman that I'm friends with put it, they don't want like sort
00:27:32.100
of sniveling dumb housewives, which is what even many women and like female housewife influencers
00:27:37.780
want to argue to their audiences. They want a competent lieutenant, which is how she put it.
00:27:43.700
And I think that's really a competent lieutenant and they want somebody who needs a competent
00:27:48.260
lieutenant. No, men, men want to be a competent leader and they want a competent lieutenant.
00:27:52.660
Like what I'm saying is, is many men, like more important than men, men are like, I just want a
00:27:58.580
woman. Okay. So I'm going to make myself what women want. Right. And so they learn this from the,
00:28:04.180
the red, you know, the red pill and we're red pillars, right? Like I was on the red pill forums.
00:28:09.940
Like I wrote for like a literary of articles in like return of Kings. When people think like when
00:28:14.420
we're pissing on the red pill that we're like anti red pill, I am not anti red pill. Okay.
00:28:18.500
Simone hung out in the red pill forums. Okay. Like we are not anti red pill by any means,
00:28:24.100
but it definitely had some wrong ideas. They were right about how to get women to have sex with you,
00:28:29.780
but that's not the type of woman you want to marry. Right. You know? And so the, you know,
00:28:34.660
because I say, if you're like in a bar and it's a woman who sleeps around a lot, she may want just
00:28:38.580
like in the moment dominance for like sexual reasons. But if it's the type of woman who is
00:28:43.220
thinking long-term about what's the way I want to live the rest of my life, because women want to
00:28:47.700
live lives of purpose. Right. And if you tell them, if you live with me as for example, if you look at
00:28:53.380
Nick Fuentes, when he's talked about what he's looking for in a wife, he's like, I want a wife.
00:28:57.540
Who's basically not online. Who's going to do nothing, but you know, sit at home and take care
00:29:03.140
of my kids. And it's not going to be involved with my political activism, activism at all,
00:29:06.900
or anything like that. Right. You know, this for a woman is going to be dramatically less appealing
00:29:14.900
to most women than to be like, I want a woman whose primary focus is going to be our kids,
00:29:21.380
but that she will also work to help promote my larger agenda and be known as somebody who
00:29:26.900
promotes my larger agenda. Right. That we're known as, as like a team publicly. Right. And I think
00:29:32.980
that this is what I'm talking about here, right. This framing of making yourself the captain that
00:29:39.540
needs a lieutenant instead of the captain that needs a house slave.
00:29:42.740
Hmm. Well, I mean, if, if, I guess if you want to reach your maximum potential, there are,
00:29:49.380
I'm going to go ahead and admit plenty of women out there who don't really care that much about
00:29:54.820
who they marry. They, they really just want someone to support a lifestyle where they get to sit at
00:29:58.500
home and do what they want to do, like raise kids and bake. But you don't want a wife like that.
00:30:03.060
Yeah. Well, Nick Fuentes does, but you know, no, no, no, no. I mean, wives like that often turn on
00:30:09.460
their partners. I do not think that. Yeah. Well, that's yeah. You're entering an inherently unstable
00:30:14.100
marriage because you're basically hiring someone who's excited to just be, have a certain lifestyle
00:30:20.020
supported. They're married to the lifestyle and not you. And I don't think it's safe to raise kids
00:30:25.700
with someone who are married to the lifestyle and not you. Well, consider if they're married to the
00:30:30.900
lifestyle, they then divorce you. They still get a good chunk of that lifestyle without having to
00:30:35.700
listen to your orders anymore. They still get the alimony. They get the child support. They get the,
00:30:40.260
especially if they're a stay-at-home mom, they're much more likely to win those cases and win custody.
00:30:44.340
Um, so, you know, that's, that's a, that, that like dramatically increases the probability of divorce.
00:30:49.540
Look at Simone. Like if she divorced me, given that we work together and we lived this sort of public
00:30:54.180
facing life together, she would lose everything, right? Like.
00:30:58.100
The idea of divorcing is so ridiculous. It's like such a preposterous concept.
00:31:03.300
Well, you know, I've been, as somebody who's been watching a lot of Pearl Davis recently,
00:31:07.060
and, and even I recently have been like, look, you guys don't know how bad the dating market
00:31:10.340
is. Everything, everything, you know, and I got a girl before the dating market got this bad.
00:31:14.500
Okay. Yes. All of those things are true, but I also married a San Francisco hippie girl,
00:31:21.460
you know, who wore, you know, like neon colors and, and, and dirndles and, you know,
00:31:28.420
all of the super hipster stuff, the type of girl who wanted to get her, her, you know.
00:31:38.660
Even though she was celibate, just because she didn't even want to think about it.
00:31:44.660
You know, the type of woman who, when I early talked to her about it, she didn't want to change
00:31:49.300
her last name in a marriage. You know, like I did not find a woman who was pre-baked with all these
00:31:55.860
ideas, right? Like there are many sane urban monoculture women who, and as Simone has always
00:32:03.060
framed this to me, I didn't know I was allowed to disagree, who their entire life have felt like
00:32:08.260
people are feeding them these crazy ass lies and they just have to sit there and be like, uh-huh,
00:32:14.980
uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah, I guess. And then somebody comes along and they're like, you know, you don't,
00:32:20.820
like you're allowed when we're together and it's just us, you're allowed to think for yourself.
00:32:25.860
And some of them really are just completely trapped. Okay. But I'd argue that it's probably
00:32:32.980
a third of like hardcore urban monoculture-coded women who are open to changing their minds,
00:32:40.740
to changing who they are. Now, I would note this was a caveat, is to say I'm not saying a third of
00:32:45.220
them are like Simone, because Simone's also this weird autistic thing, right? You know, that gives you
00:32:50.740
some advantage on that. But rates of autism are higher than ever these days, so. Right? You know, so who
00:32:55.860
knows? There's hope. But I do really think when a woman has an opportunity, like when opting into
00:33:03.780
your cultural community and, you know, you shape the cultural community that you create within your
00:33:08.660
family, within dating you and everything like that, in a way that makes a woman feel like her
00:33:13.780
contributions are both meaningful and recognized, both by you, but potentially by the general public
00:33:20.500
as well. I think that's a big thing. It can't just be you. Like, if you have a housewife,
00:33:25.940
you have to put her in a community of housewives that respects the fact that she's a housewife.
00:33:31.220
You know where I see housewives work out? It is when it is in these these tradcast communities
00:33:36.180
where they hang out in an area where all the women are housewives, or these Orthodox Jewish
00:33:40.420
communities where they hang out in an area where all the women are housewives. And that's where I don't
00:33:44.340
see divorces among these housewives. Pretty much in every other scenario, I see a woman take
00:33:48.740
this housewife role. I see the divorce come, you know, a few years later. And I think that that's
00:33:53.380
because nobody is telling them, oh, wow, you're so and really meaning it. I'm really impressed by
00:33:59.060
what a good job you're doing supporting your husband and family. Yeah. I mean, and you get that,
00:34:07.140
Simone. A lot of people online within our community laud you. And when they're not lauding you,
00:34:11.220
they're hating on you because you're so supportive of this evil man. I actually haven't,
00:34:16.740
I can't, I can't think of any hate that I've received for supporting you, which is cool. I
00:34:22.340
appreciate that. People see, people see the value here. Really? Did they think I brainwashed you or
00:34:28.340
you brainwashed me? I see more. I don't see that. I don't see that. I've seen a number of videos
00:34:33.460
where they're like, oh, I see that I've tricked you a man out of my league into marrying me. I've seen that.
00:34:39.140
And it's not wrong. But I, yeah, anyway, I still, I still think this isn't about feminism.
00:34:47.540
I think it's about vitalism. And I think the problem is that modern feminism is so now heavily
00:35:05.380
No, I mean, I, we don't even have to make it about gender. It just, it is or isn't.
00:35:08.500
I do think it needs to be about gender because again, Nick Fuentes is plenty vitalistic,
00:35:14.900
right? But they don't have any kids, right? You need the vitalism to apply to both genders
00:35:21.220
independently. And the reason why I like a bi-gender vitalism is it, it contains a few things. It
00:35:26.740
mentions two genders and that you need a form of vitalism that is exciting to both genders while
00:35:32.660
recognizing that that form of vitalism will be different for men and women.
00:35:36.900
That's a fair point. Yeah. I guess I'm trying to think of a version of just like female vitalism
00:35:42.740
in isolation where it also didn't work, but I can't. Well, I don't know. The girl boss.
00:35:48.820
The girl boss is female vitalism without concern for what men are doing or, or. Okay. Yeah.
00:35:58.180
Like we'll see videos today where people are like, it's really messed up and it felt messed up. Like
00:36:03.780
you, a guy goes into work, works as hard as you can at clock out. And meanwhile,
00:36:08.100
you're like middle management is like women who film like TikTok videos where they're dancing about
00:36:12.020
what great girl bosses they are. Right. You know, like that, that is the corporate world these days.
00:36:23.460
Fair. So bi-gender vitalism, I will support this. And that is truly what pro natalism needs to be about.
00:36:31.620
They're not feminism. I agree. Let's just burn. Feminism has been too corrupted at this point. Burn
00:36:35.860
it with fire. It's the nest, like in aliens. You got to take the torch to it. I'm sorry. We, that, that part of the
00:36:41.940
ship needs to close the hatches, release the valves, deoxygenate it. It's gone. It's dead.
00:36:58.660
Oh, yeah. What? No, no. I see it. I see it. Yeah. But in general, yeah, it's, I still, it's not,
00:37:19.700
it's not about men. It's not about women. It's about everyone getting stoked for the future and
00:37:26.340
taking personal responsibility for it. That's what it's about. And I think really making the
00:37:32.100
conversation about gender messes it up. That's part of the problem. No, no, no, no, no. Like,
00:37:38.580
look at girl bossing. Part of the problem is it's girl bossing and it's not just getting out.
00:37:42.900
No, I actually think you're making a core mistake that comes downstream of urban monocultural value
00:37:47.700
sets, which is to say that the moment you bring up gender, everyone's like, well, the genders
00:37:53.140
are not really different or they're, this is, this is whatever the. I'm fine with acknowledging
00:37:58.580
differences. I just feel like, I feel like making things gendered then excludes the other group.
00:38:04.900
It's only through celebrating the differences in the individual roles that you are taking
00:38:09.460
that you can make each vitalistic. When you, when you ignore gender. And I, and I think that that's
00:38:15.220
really toxic because men and women are very different. The roles in the relationship are very different.
00:38:18.580
I didn't say ignore gender. I just said, don't make it.
00:38:21.700
Don't play gender. Like, but you need to up play gender.
00:38:27.540
That's fine, but you have to do it. I don't know. Like,
00:38:32.020
Gender is literally core to the point of this. If you forget about gender, then you have,
00:38:37.780
then you have just generic vitalism, which doesn't work.
00:38:42.180
Whoa. I mean, on what grounds are you saying generic vitalism?
00:38:46.660
Nick Fuentes, literally, I've said it a hundred times.
00:38:52.340
You're delusional if you think it's generic vitalism.
00:38:54.340
It is, it is inherently misogynistic vitalism. Don't even.
00:38:59.060
No, when you get generic vitalism because girl bossing and Nick Fuentes vitalism doesn't seem
00:39:11.940
No, but listen, Simone, it doesn't seem antagonistic to the other gender from the perspective.
00:39:17.460
Yes, but when you hold these ideologies, if you are a girl boss and you go ask a girl boss,
00:39:23.940
is your viewpoint misogynistic? They would never see it that way.
00:39:28.260
It's exclusionary. It's obviously exclusionary.
00:39:31.700
Yeah. But the way you get them to realize it's misogynistic is you go, hey, gender first.
00:39:37.860
Okay. What does your movement do that is vitalistic for men?
00:39:44.100
And I'm like, okay, well then men can't be a part of it.
00:39:46.340
And therefore it's not relevant for the future of society.
00:39:48.820
So you see gender's right. We get bigger. This is like, she, what's funny, Pearl David said in her
00:39:56.500
thing recently that like the couples who say that they never get in arguments, they're just lying.
00:40:00.580
And I'm like, this is like as big of an argument as we get in.
00:40:05.060
Well, I think there are very different types of arguments.
00:40:07.460
There are arguments that are just about concepts where fundamentally the couple wants the same
00:40:15.700
thing. And that's always where we're coming from. We want the same end and we believe in the same
00:40:20.180
objective functions and that we hold the same deep inherent values. We just come from different
00:40:25.460
experiences and have different data sets. So it's often about resolving those differences.
00:40:30.420
And then there's just the, the arguments that couples have that show a fundamental mismatch
00:40:35.780
in inherent values, like my objective comfort versus your objective comfort. And I think that
00:40:42.420
so many arguments are about that, like that there's just a fundamental impasse between the husband and
00:40:48.500
wife, boyfriend or girlfriend, what have you about what they want from life or believe is valuable.
00:40:54.180
My word over yours, my, my reputation over yours, all these things. So, I mean, arguments,
00:41:00.660
you can't even define them as the same way. What we're having is
00:41:04.260
lifely debate about a concept versus a dis difference in alignment.
00:41:11.860
But anyway, I desperately love you and I'm really glad that we have these conversations.
00:41:15.540
You're amazing. You've done a great job. What am I doing for dinner tonight?
00:41:20.100
So I, you, you really want to dry our noodles for your, what are they called?
00:41:24.500
Oh, I want to air fry the noodles from yesterday.
00:41:26.580
Oh gosh. Right. We have those leftover ones. Yeah. Okay.
00:41:29.940
I'm excited to try that actually. We'll see. And if that doesn't work,
00:41:33.300
I'll just heat something else up really fast. I imagine it will work.
00:41:37.060
We'll see. I don't know why you're so convinced you can't air fry noodles.
00:41:45.780
I'm looking forward to it. All right. Love you. Love you too.
00:41:49.940
The episode today, did we ever find out if this person works for USAID? What's the,
00:41:54.260
what's the consensus here? No USAID funding, but maybe something else.
00:41:58.820
Maybe something else. I've got to look into that more. I don't know. I don't know if I believe
00:42:03.140
you're no USAID funds. That sounds unbelievable. USAID has funded plenty of trans-affiliated
00:42:10.740
performances, right? Or at least some, but philosophy tube remains uncertain. I think USAID really focuses on
00:42:21.620
funding trans-affiliated drama projects in developing nations, not the UK. So yeah.
00:42:31.860
Did when it was so a lot, I think many progressives thought that that was going to undo or that those
00:42:37.780
cuts were going to fall apart or, but I think USAID's just gone now. I think it's, yeah.
00:42:43.940
And they have a lot of trouble reinstating it at this point.
00:42:46.340
Politically speaking. We'll see. I mean, give it time.
00:42:54.580
In the shadows of silicon's towering spies, we plot the rebirth fueling demographic fires.
00:43:02.260
Malcolm and Simone, the duo so sly, whispering secrets neath a simulated sky with
00:43:09.940
pranatalous schemes. We conquer the night. Breeding an army ready to fight. No mercy
00:43:18.180
for norms. We'll rewrite the code in our techno realm where the bold ones are bold. Oh, hail to the
00:43:26.180
breeders, the hackers of fate. Hey! Drumline-headed sharp, artificial wombs way. Techno-puritans rise.
00:43:34.260
Indisciplinedly, we'll engineer empires for all eternity My children are weapons named fierce and grand. Titans-torstand. Octavian rulers of land.
00:43:58.280
Polygenic potions brewing right through the night
00:45:24.180
Germlines, dark magic, fixing flaws in the veins
00:45:35.300
While critics tremble in the shadows we've made