Based Camp - Why is the Pro-Natalist Movement Disproportionally Autistic？

00:00:00.000 Next time we're talked to you by a reporter or something like this, we need to have you subtly drop that you want to replace the rest of the population with autistic people. 0.99

00:00:08.100 We need to have you.

00:00:09.640 What do we call it?

00:00:10.720 The greater replacement.

00:00:11.920 The greater replacement.

00:00:13.240 The complete solution.

00:00:15.060 No, you got to say it's the greater replacement theory.

00:00:17.540 I have a greater replacement theory.

00:00:20.920 I'm a greater replacement theorist where the autists are trying to replace us. 1.00

00:00:25.080 And Simone, here you affirm you as an autist are trying to replace them now, right? 0.99

00:00:29.840 Like, that's what the prenatalist movement is really about.

00:00:32.240 Yeah.

00:00:32.740 We need some progressive to freak out about this.

00:00:34.960 Would you like to know more?

00:00:35.940 Yes.

00:00:37.420 Great.

00:00:37.720 By the way, one thing you would have loved is when the repair guy came, you know, because I was managing the call.

00:00:42.600 So I wasn't able to stand next to the repair guy and I couldn't keep Octavian away.

00:00:45.340 He wanted to watch the whole time.

00:00:46.680 He got his iPad and he sat down right next to the repair guy.

00:00:50.620 He's back leaning against the repair guy, you know, like on the bed or something.

00:00:54.880 The guy's standing there doing stuff.

00:00:56.960 And Octavian's like cuddling with him.

00:00:59.200 Like leaning against him.

00:01:00.860 Yeah.

00:01:03.160 Octavian is a zero fear of one of my favorites.

00:01:08.120 Yeah.

00:01:08.580 He did.

00:01:09.120 There were like guys out working by our place and Octavian goes, hey, can I go up and give him a hug?

00:01:14.160 And I was like, oh no, Octavian.

00:01:15.580 I don't think like the random guy wants a hug.

00:01:18.040 And Octavian goes, everybody likes hugs.

00:01:20.640 And this guy was like, he clearly wasn't a morning person.

00:01:24.860 He was smoking a cigarette and like drinking a Dunkin coffee and like just looking like he wanted to die.

00:01:31.820 Octavian was like, I want to go give him a hug.

00:01:34.420 Even when he was really, really little, we'd like go hiking and walk past a group of people.

00:01:38.520 And he would just like veer off from us and follow them because, you know, they look like more fun, I guess.

00:01:44.340 The new family is more fun.

00:01:46.680 So speaking of all of this, one thing that was really interesting at the Pronatalist conference,

00:01:53.260 because we got a better understanding of like what the base of the movement is actually like.

00:01:58.860 At one point, I was like, this really feels a lot like the early effect of altruist movement.

00:02:02.080 You know, lots of really competent entrepreneurs, disproportionately highly educated, disproportionately entrepreneurs,

00:02:09.180 disproportionately tech people, disproportionately successful.

00:02:12.220 And somebody was like, and we were like, how can we move this in the direction of the EA movement?

00:02:17.080 Not like in the corrupted direction, but in the direction of actually having tons of societal influence

00:02:21.760 instead of just being a subculture that is for people of a subculture or seen as like a weirdo thing, right?

00:02:28.440 Somebody goes, well, the reason why that culture worked so well was because it appealed to disproportionately autistic people.

00:02:35.300 And then like out of the woodwork, someone like sprang up and was like, did someone say autism?

00:02:39.960 Yeah. And then like five people in the room raised their hand. Literally, it must have been 40% of the room was autistic or 30%.

00:02:46.660 There were a lot of autists there. 0.98

00:02:48.320 It was higher than I expected. And as people know, like Simone is autistic, right? 0.52

00:02:53.060 So this was like, yes, the EA movement was disproportionately autistic and still is. 0.81

00:02:58.700 And the Pronatalist movement is disproportionately autistic. 0.51

00:03:01.620 And the question is, why? What's going on here?

00:03:07.920 Now, before we get further with that question, I'm going to do like a little free ad for a product I want to support

00:03:13.420 because I always support any interesting autistic focused dating products that are maybe going to get more of you guys' wives. 0.65

00:03:21.420 So Manifest, it is a prediction market.

00:03:24.580 Manifold. Hold on. No.

00:03:26.460 So there's a prediction market called Manifold that is really cool.

00:03:30.440 We went to their inaugural conference this year called Manifest in Berkeley.

00:03:35.180 And shortly after that conference, they released a dating app called Manifold Love.

00:03:42.180 You can access it at manifold.love.

00:03:44.940 Yeah. And so I don't know exactly how it works. Maybe you can read on the thing.

00:03:50.560 But my understanding is that people will put up like profiles of themselves and then other people will bet on who you would be a good match for.

00:03:58.760 And they win betting pools if you end up with the person who they're betting you're going to be a good match for.

00:04:04.320 Now, basically, it's crowdsourced matchmaking via prediction markets.

00:04:07.360 So they're combining matchmaking with prediction markets.

00:04:11.640 And basically, you can create a dating profile.

00:04:15.180 A lot of it's like typical dating platform stuff where you upload photos and you answer questions from a long list provided.

00:04:20.780 You know, this includes like, do you want to have kids?

00:04:24.060 What's your personality like?

00:04:25.800 And then basically, this creates a collection of highly detailed profiles.

00:04:31.440 And then anyone who joins, of course, can act as a matchmaker between profiles.

00:04:37.160 So this isn't just a platform where people actively looking for a partner would want to be.

00:04:42.460 This is also a platform where someone who's like, I feel like I can predict a good pairing between some people.

00:04:48.840 Well, it's good gossip if it's going on in your community.

00:04:51.380 Oh, yeah.

00:04:51.880 Right now, I hear it's mostly just used in Silicon Valley.

00:04:55.400 No, they're like, I'm looking at it now.

00:04:57.280 There's someone in London, New York City, Beijing, Washington, San Jose, Fairfield, California City, Greater London, Burlingame, like all over.

00:05:08.860 I mean, yeah, like San Francisco Bay Area, there is a lot.

00:05:12.220 Singapore, though, more New York City, Calgary.

00:05:14.920 So it is actually, I think, it's starting out with a nice spread of people.

00:05:21.240 And what I like is that matchmakers playing with this dating aspect of Manifold can profit with mana, which is their world currency, if they correctly bet on whether two individuals will last in a six-month relationship or not.

00:05:38.520 And I love that betting.

00:05:39.820 I just, I like, I wish, we've got to do this.

00:05:42.780 Like, I want there to be like a running, like, thing in our family where we're betting on like all sorts of inappropriate things.

00:05:48.940 I would love that.

00:05:49.580 I mean, it'd be so cool if something like it's got popular on like a college campus or something.

00:05:53.180 Well, even like with dating, too.

00:05:54.880 Like, I think one thing that actually came up at the Prenatalist Conference in, I think, that same conversation where autism came up was the fact that like family and social approval of partners,

00:06:06.760 of people people were dating, had sort of fallen by the wayside.

00:06:10.860 Whereas like in the past, your parents and your brother and sister would all have like a whole lot of things to say about the woman or man that you were dating.

00:06:18.180 And they, you know, would be like, here's what I think of them.

00:06:20.900 And I love the idea of like bringing it back and being like, yeah, I'm going to place this bet that you're going to last, like you're going to last for five weeks.

00:06:28.580 And what was very interesting how that came up is the guy was like, my brother brought home somebody to meet the family and it was like very clear this was a bad match.

00:06:35.940 Yeah.

00:06:36.760 But we couldn't tell him, try to subtly tell him like this is a bad match, but it didn't mean much to him that the entire family thought that.

00:06:46.200 And historically and within most cultures, that would be a very, very loud signal that you probably shouldn't get married to somebody.

00:06:53.300 But I think it's different.

00:06:54.660 I think it's different when the family is like literally putting money on the line.

00:06:58.100 Like, here's how long I think you're going to last.

00:06:59.980 And of course that can happen is like, if that happens to the wrong type of person, they might pursue a relationship or string it along longer than they should just to, you know, out of spite.

00:07:11.300 Oh, we don't want them colluding on these bets.

00:07:13.460 You know, that'd be so easy to do.

00:07:15.380 So, but I still, I still love this, this idea.

00:07:18.940 Yeah.

00:07:19.380 For a dating set.

00:07:20.180 I'd also love it if we did little ads like this occasionally and things for products that we stan.

00:07:25.700 I was thinking about that earlier when I was watching YouTube videos and they had like sponsored segments.

00:07:29.380 I'd be like, oh, it'd be cool to like sponsor little products or people who are working on things in the community.

00:07:35.000 Not for pay or the greater good.

00:07:38.080 Not for the greater good.

00:07:39.300 That's what the Tao empire would say.

00:07:41.060 And they're a bunch of commies.

00:07:42.520 Oh.

00:07:43.280 We do it for community cohesion and utility.

00:07:46.840 Okay.

00:07:47.120 Simone, efficacy, efficacy.

00:07:49.320 But I.

00:07:50.980 I actually do think it's a legit good place to look for a partner though, because you have to think about, this is one of those things where in, in business,

00:07:58.000 you need to look for an arbitrage opportunity.

00:08:00.480 You need to look where there's a lot of value that is untapped.

00:08:03.700 And what we learned after attending Manifold's inaugural conference was just how smart everyone there was.

00:08:11.440 And like, we're like, oh my gosh, like I am ready to like move into a neighborhood full of these people.

00:08:17.600 I would happily live in that neighborhood.

00:08:19.280 That's where we finally met Scott Alexander.

00:08:21.920 Yeah.

00:08:22.500 Yeah.

00:08:22.940 And saw a bunch of other really awesome people and made a lot of friends.

00:08:25.940 And we've been to a lot of different like societies and groups where we really love the people there.

00:08:31.480 And we're like, oh, everyone's so intellectual.

00:08:32.960 This wasn't just intellectual people.

00:08:34.420 It was like intellectual doers.

00:08:36.940 Intellectual, thoughtful people like who.

00:08:39.680 Yeah.

00:08:40.100 I don't know.

00:08:40.460 I just, I think they're great.

00:08:41.600 So this is why I think it's a uniquely worthwhile thing to plug.

00:08:45.340 It's because right now, before it becomes like overblown or too well known, it is a very curated network of very smart, thoughtful, but also like impactful, employed people.

00:08:59.260 So, yeah.

00:09:00.660 But now to the topic of the video.

00:09:02.480 Why is this community disproportionately drawing autists? 1.00

00:09:05.560 The type of people who would be engaged by something like that.

00:09:08.480 Yeah.

00:09:09.020 And autists, you'd think, would have a lower birth rate than the average person. 1.00

00:09:12.540 So why would autists not only be like keen to have a kid, but like six? 1.00

00:09:17.640 And we should call them hottest because that's the new thing.

00:09:20.720 They're hot autistic people, the hottest. 0.99

00:09:24.000 Why is it that hottest are disproportionately drawn to pronatalism? 0.94

00:09:27.960 I am asking you, the autistic woman. 0.76

00:09:30.080 I think, well, yeah, I mean, the classic easiest answer is autistic people don't just do something.

00:09:39.720 They like really go overboard.

00:09:41.600 You know, they're not just like into trains. 0.99

00:09:43.180 They like know every fucking thing about trains. 0.98

00:09:46.040 Right? 0.99

00:09:46.620 So like, I think once you get an autistic person into kids, they're like, kids, bring all the kids and I'm going to raise them perfect.

00:09:55.720 And they will because they're going to be autistic about it, which is such an ironic twist from like the classic image of the refrigerator mom. 0.78

00:10:04.260 For a little bit of color for a while, people thought that people became autistic because they were raised by overly cold mothers who, you know, didn't show them love and were incapable of expressing love.

00:10:14.780 Whereas like when we see the autists who are raising kids, you know, they may not, it may not be natural to them to like express affection in certain ways, but they have studied it so much and they care about doing it right so much that they are way better at showing affection than the average. 1.00

00:10:30.860 We're very good at simulating it.

00:10:32.640 You can't replace family with a robot, Richard.

00:10:35.560 We need real human affection.

00:10:38.300 That's why Huggies program to simulate it, sweetness.

00:10:41.980 But yeah, so honestly, though, here's my here's my thing, though, about about simulating love.

00:10:46.520 I think that someone who's quote unquote faking it when it comes to love and affection is ultimately going to show much more love and affection to someone than someone who's really acting it out.

00:10:56.940 Because people who are who act as they actually feel are way less like way, way more likely to get irritable, way more less likely to act patiently, way less likely to act picturesquely all the time.

00:11:11.980 What could be more important than your family, Richard?

00:11:18.860 Science.

00:11:19.340 And I think both you and I, like a lot of the time when we do super wholesome stuff and it's, you know, our being really cute with the kids and being really loving with them, like it's right after they just vomited slash shat slash spit up all over us.

00:11:32.480 You know, it might be after they just screamed in our faces or had a tantrum or like we're kind of tired.

00:11:37.120 But we choose because we're being really autistic about it to be more affectionate.

00:11:42.480 So, again, ironically, I would also say not only are autists like extra enthusiastic about parenting when they get into it, but also like they're better parents than neurotypical people. 0.96

00:11:51.620 That's an interesting theory.

00:11:52.540 That is not the theory that I've chosen.

00:11:54.660 Okay.

00:11:54.920 The theory I would have chosen goes like this.

00:11:58.560 Why were autists disproportionately in the early effect of altruist movement? 0.60

00:12:01.780 It was because the movement combined two things.

00:12:04.720 Something that was obviously a problem in society, that most philanthropic money was mostly about social signaling and not actually helping people.

00:12:12.460 But that also a person with good emotional, like intelligence of other humans and who could read other humans and social cues really well, they would know that you're not supposed to say that, that people are just spending philanthropic money to self-aggrandize themselves and make themselves look better.

00:12:31.800 Because that's a really hurtful thing to tell somebody and that's, you know, disruptive to society.

00:12:37.580 And so we have broadly agreed on this mass delusion.

00:12:40.880 And they're like, no, but look, seriously, it's not working.

00:12:44.420 And everyone else is like, well.

00:12:45.600 And I think that with the pronatalist movement, it's the same sort of a thing.

00:12:49.360 It's a movement that is based around an obvious statistical trend.

00:12:53.700 But anybody who's looking at statistics is going to see that fertility rates are falling at a rate that makes it inevitable that it is not going to be the biggest issue that humanity faces over the next century.

00:13:05.860 Much bigger than things like global warming and stuff like that, when you're looking at just the numbers and the speed of what's happening.

00:13:12.360 And so they recognize that this is the problem, but they also lack the social graces to recognize just how much blowback they're going to get from the urban monoculture, which controls most pathways to power in our society, most pathways to income and stability in our society, pathways and access to sexual resources in our society.

00:13:33.480 So they just go out and say it.

00:13:35.500 Hey, guys, do you not see the problem?

00:13:37.920 Do you not see the train that we're about to hit?

00:13:40.740 And I think that that's what it is.

00:13:41.800 It's a obvious thing with a social filter in front of it that most people know not to cross.

00:13:47.120 And I would say that this is also true when I think about like the people who were autistic at the conference or were heavily on the spectrum there.

00:13:54.900 They were just genuinely like, I am concerned about the statistics here.

00:13:59.340 Whereas I think that people who weren't like that at the conference, they more like had some other agenda that they were using this to promote to some extent.

00:14:06.180 Right. They weren't prenatalists.

00:14:07.460 They were first and foremost Catholics or whatever religion they were.

00:14:12.280 Yeah.

00:14:12.840 Yeah.

00:14:15.240 Whereas the autistic people were more like, hey, this is a problem. 1.00

00:14:18.160 Why aren't people talking about it?

00:14:19.500 Like I came here to try to figure out why no one is talking about this.

00:14:22.640 So I'm so sorry.

00:14:23.700 I'm so sorry.

00:14:24.380 I do my little impression there.

00:14:26.020 But it is it is really interesting.

00:14:28.800 And I think if the movement stays this way or it has this as sort of its founding community, that's going to heavily shape it going forwards.

00:14:36.880 But it also speaks really positively towards the direction it's going.

00:14:41.720 Because it has the capability of moving up in society and moving up within sort of income brackets and then taking over apparatuses in our society in the same way the EA movement did.

00:14:54.340 And so that's a really positive direction.

00:14:59.600 And that's one of the things with the EA movement.

00:15:01.060 As the EA movement began to incorporate more and more people who were not autistic, that's.

00:15:06.140 That's where it started to fall apart.

00:15:07.580 It sort of began to fall apart and lose its way, especially within leadership roles.

00:15:11.720 Although wouldn't you say Sam Bankenfried is almost certainly on the spectrum?

00:15:16.200 Oh, yeah.

00:15:16.700 I'd say that it is still the old, old guard heads of the movement are still all pretty much on the spectrum.

00:15:22.820 I mean, it's insane.

00:15:23.560 He still did like really performative stuff.

00:15:29.120 Right.

00:15:29.460 But he was doing it with the goal of manipulating political players.

00:15:33.040 I don't know how much of it.

00:15:34.540 Like his goal was manipulating political players for personal financial gain.

00:15:38.800 That was, you know, what motivated that behavior.

00:15:42.240 And then, you know, particularly lacking social awareness that the EA movement has now become an aggressive Luddite movement is absolutely hilarious to me.

00:15:53.160 For people who may not know what the word Luddite means, it means an anti-technology or like a technophobic movement.

00:15:57.820 But as they say, and I think that this is really funny, there was a quote that I'll put on screen by, what's his name?

00:16:04.300 The guy who wrote Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

00:16:06.140 Oh, okay.

00:16:07.000 Douglas Adams.

00:16:07.880 Douglas Adams.

00:16:08.240 Oh, there we go.

00:16:08.880 It's like anything that was invented before I was born is like old news, boring.

00:16:14.360 Anything from when I was born to the age of 30 is exciting and I might get a career in it.

00:16:18.800 Anything after the age of 30 is like against the natural order of things and must be destroyed.

00:16:24.440 And it is hilarious to me that like right as the leadership cast of the EA movement turned over 30, like that was the moment when they decided all technological innovation must stop right now.

00:16:39.040 Everything else is blasphemous and must be destroyed.

00:16:42.980 A little on the nose.

00:16:44.100 Yeah.

00:16:44.700 It was shockingly on the nose.

00:16:47.280 It was shockingly on the nose.

00:16:48.680 And very depressing to me.

00:16:50.960 And I'd like to think that the pronatalist movement, and I hope that the movement can commit to this going forwards, aggressively will raise young people to positions of influence earlier than other movements do and not develop sort of an encrusted sort of elite of intellectual elite within the community.

00:17:12.800 Well, if any movement can do that, I do think it is the pronatalist movement, especially because those cultures that are going to be sustainable in the long run are those that empower youth, not those that disempower youth.

00:17:23.920 I also think that when Silicon Valley, sorry, I shouldn't say Silicon Valley.

00:17:26.640 When autists decide to become obsessed with something and specialize in an industry, they take it over and make it very effective. 0.99

00:17:33.420 We saw this with like tech companies.

00:17:36.380 They were basically like predominated by autistic people. 0.53

00:17:39.720 And look, now tech companies like run a huge portion of the global economic system.

00:17:45.740 I think, you know, with autists taking over pronatalism, if that is indeed what happens, you are going to see a very effective movement. 0.97

00:17:54.660 Now, of course, we've heard people talk about how much they hate how autistic people run these tech companies because they have no idea how social justice works. 0.99

00:18:03.120 And they ignore all these things and they're just bullied little children who are now taking it out on all of us normal people.

00:18:10.000 But I don't know.

00:18:11.220 I mean, like, whatever, like, sorry, you can cry into your free Gmail and all you want and then watch YouTube videos that you don't pay for.

00:18:18.640 And then like, I don't like deal with it, you know, like these people, these same people are going to be like, oh, all these young people that are wiping my butt as I'm really old are so weird. 0.97

00:18:30.600 I hate them so much. But then like, who else is going to wipe your butt, lady? So, yeah. 1.00

00:18:36.400 What was that rant about? That seemed oddly specific. Did you read something somewhere?

00:18:42.020 No, I've heard multiple times people who consider themselves neurotypical, who I wouldn't even say are neurotypical, complaining about autists being in charge of like Silicon Valley, like, you know, being CEOs of companies.

00:18:53.860 I've seen the reporter class complain about this. They're like, yeah, we need to make it more known.

00:18:56.800 Not just the reporter class. Yeah.

00:18:58.800 Oh, yeah. But I, well, and it's important for us, like we talk about, like, I'm glad that I think the movement's going to end up making a lot of money.

00:19:05.100 And it's good for us to, that that happens because our natalism as a cause area has one real like downside to it, which is one of the great ways to get money as a movement and then use that to grow.

00:19:19.500 The movement is when people who care about the movement die and don't have any descendants.

00:19:23.960 Right. Which you were just talking, I think, in another episode recently about how the Catholic Church started prohibiting cousin marriage in an attempt to make sure that they got those inheritances from wealthier families.

00:19:35.380 And we want this, right? Like we want, we would love that. But I mean, if that's ever happening with us.

00:19:39.940 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We actually have a way more clever solution. And don't you dare underplay it because I think it's very smart. And I love that you made it up or that you designed it, which is specifically that people in our family, in our cultural house, do not inherit money as a matter of course.

00:19:56.240 They do not have trust funds. They do not have inheritances. Instead, there is the house fund. The house fund will help to pay for your fertility treatments. It may help to pay for some of your education and it may match funds that you raise for a startup or nonprofit from other respectable third party organizations.

00:20:14.560 But it is not going to pass on money to you. And influence within the governance of that house and the distribution of its wealth is driven by, to a great extent, those who contribute the most new money to it, which is so important because right now what you see in most family offices and when you see basically anything with inheritance, those who drain the most from it have the most influence over it.

00:20:37.840 I love our house's model, but this is different from the nonprofit pro natalist foundation, which is what I was referring to.

00:20:47.600 At the same time though, our philosophy with any sort of nonprofit effort is frankly a nonprofit that does not ultimately find a way to make its own money or that is at the very least not dependent on outside parties for donations, is the only nonprofit you really can believe is virtuous enough to pursue its original mission.

00:21:06.880 Because any nonprofit that sticks around long enough, that doesn't make money from anything but donations, clearly has become specialized in raising money and virtue signaling and not in actually solving its problems.

00:21:18.780 So again, like, well, yeah, true. But look at the anti natalist movement, how easy they'll have a time raising money.

00:21:25.580 I mean, they, they get all of people's money when they do their job. Right.

00:21:29.160 And I, and I, and I think the anti natalist movement is actually going to do a lot to buoy the pro natalist movement right now.

00:21:34.660 Like they are, if anything, a boon to us as they are growing because they're just so insane.

00:21:41.000 Well, I mean, to me, they just come off as transparently evil. 0.99

00:21:43.480 They're like, yeah, let's kill all life on the planet. Let's Venus the planet. 1.00

00:21:47.800 You know, that's not an uncommon thing within the negative utilitarian side, which is sort of the leaders of most of the anti natalist community.

00:21:55.100 I think, I think it is very virtuous within their perception of reality. It is, it is logically consistent and virtuous.

00:22:01.940 No. And I agree with that, but it's a high utility to us because I think it drives normies, you know, when they're choosing, well, which side of this debate am I on towards our side of things?

00:22:11.960 So long as you can keep any of the racist voice from getting too loud, then you can win the normie middle.

00:22:17.820 Which, which I feel like, you know, in terms of, of public messaging, like we've really begun to do, I, the, the, the, I, the fertility rate problem, I think is really beginning to break into mainstream narratives.

00:22:32.400 I agree. Yeah. It's happening.

00:22:36.200 And this is awesome for us.

00:22:37.820 Yeah. I guess it actually like the, the, the, the awareness and the extent to which people care about it is part of the solution because we are seeing people just completely breaking away from many of the broken elements of dating markets, of not getting married, of not having kids.

00:22:55.660 And they're just like having kids really young. They're, they're starting families really young and economically, economically productive at the same time.

00:23:02.360 So I guess, yeah, awareness actually is more of a cure than I even thought it was when I, now that we've met people in the movement.

00:23:09.120 Right. And now that we see like what awareness is producing, because I thought awareness was going to produce just frustration.

00:23:14.560 Like, yes, I know it's a problem, but no, there's nothing we can do about it.

00:23:18.140 Whereas actually living face, I think it's more than awareness.

00:23:22.320 I think it's a self identity as a pro natalist that they now see publicly and they can accept for themselves.

00:23:29.740 So I think that people really work around sort of prepackaged self narratives in our society.

00:23:34.320 And the problem is, is a lot of people didn't have a pro natalist package of personality that they could adopt.

00:23:42.080 They did not come with either racist or religious extremist connotations.

00:23:47.320 Right. And so because they felt that way, they're like, I don't get to do this because this isn't who I am.

00:23:53.740 You know, especially if they were successful, entrepreneurial or autistic, like we were talking about, you know, why are they disproportionately drawn?

00:24:00.160 It might be partially because you're one of the heads of the movement.

00:24:03.320 It might be because they see you and they see this self narrative that you and I are pushing and they're like, this is a self narrative that I personally can identify with and not feel ashamed about this identity.

00:24:20.740 And then they make life choices that are aligned with the community.

00:24:24.640 I mean, having kids is a bit like having kids young, especially as a bit like the face tattoo of the pro natalist movement.

00:24:30.380 It's the way that you show, you know, you are on board with this movement and a very serious long term commitment.

00:24:37.420 And a lot of also the wholesome imagery around the movement and stuff like that, I think, has also been really appealing to people where it's like really technophilic and successful, but otherwise wholesome.

00:24:47.880 Which I actually think it's part of why pro natalism didn't really take off when it was just Elon doing the advocacy for it, because he started talking about it even before we did.

00:25:00.220 Yeah, but he wasn't talking about it in a way where it's like, I could do that.

00:25:03.020 I never saw his lifestyle and thought, oh, well, of course, that's something I can do.

00:25:08.100 Yeah, yeah, where I think we offer an image that a lot of people feel is both aspirational yet attainable, which is also interesting because you and me as like a healthy couple that actually likes each other, like that's pretty rare for any kind of influencer where that is not their core thing.

00:25:32.480 Like there's a lot of influencers where it is their core thing.

00:25:35.620 Because, you know, I love watching critiques of like happy families and like wholesome families.

00:25:40.640 And there's so much footage of like people sitting next to each other, like looking kind of resentful and passive aggressive.

00:25:48.980 And it's sad.

00:25:51.080 It is sad.

00:25:52.120 Yeah, I don't like to.

00:25:52.800 And it becomes a real problem in those relationships because they develop their own self-narration because that's their income.

00:25:59.720 They see themselves certainly masturbating the self-narrative and so they cannot accept even within themselves that their relationship may not be good for them long term or that they may need to work on something in a very serious way because it is who they are.

00:26:15.400 I'm the person who's in a good relationship.

00:26:17.560 Where for us, this is really ancillary to our advocacy work.

00:26:21.580 It's just, I guess it's useful for our advocacy work, but it is very ancillary to it.

00:26:28.760 Oh, like we don't have to be happy together in order to be effective.

00:26:33.360 Yeah, I mean, I don't think we have to be like a great couple to be good advocates for this.

00:26:38.540 Although maybe we do.

00:26:39.900 Maybe it's for our advocacy work.

00:26:42.120 Sorry, you're going to have to keep up the charade, my friend.

00:26:45.500 The charade of pretending I love you and I think you're amazing.

00:26:48.700 Okay, I'll keep it up.

00:26:49.660 I'll keep it up for a few days.

00:26:51.080 Is this how you trapped me?

00:26:52.960 Is this how you trapped me?

00:26:53.960 You got me into this situation.

00:26:55.320 Yeah, I made you super path dependent on being a perfect, wholesome husband.

00:26:58.620 So now you just have to dig into it.

00:27:00.140 I can't possibly leave you or treat you poorly or I would.

00:27:03.840 But this is the thing.

00:27:04.520 It's like, no, legit.

00:27:05.560 I think that people who fake affection and are invested in faking affection are way better than people who actually just express how they feel all the time. 0.97

00:27:14.260 And that's part of our philosophy, too, is feelings and emotions are kind of dumb and often maladapted. 0.96

00:27:21.640 I agree with that to an extent. 0.95

00:27:22.780 But the Gottmans are supposed to be faking that they're in a good relationship. 0.92

00:27:25.840 You know, their whole shtick is relationships, right?

00:27:29.860 Like, it doesn't come across like they're in a happy relationship.

00:27:32.660 I don't know.

00:27:33.640 I still I actually hold to your view that the Gottmans are really more about keeping bad relationships together.

00:27:41.400 And that is the image that they're trying to share is that don't worry.

00:27:45.000 We, too, have a bad relationship and we've managed to become a power couple together.

00:27:49.520 You can, too, and still hate each other.

00:27:52.300 So people know who they are.

00:27:53.560 They're like the number one relationship coaches for boomers.

00:27:56.220 Right.

00:27:57.080 John Gottman became famous from his research where he felt like he was able to, after watching some like five minute clip of a couple talking, say how long that marriage was going to last.

00:28:05.800 And then they made this whole like thing.

00:28:08.960 And we went to another retreats once because we were generously offered free attendance to this retreat.

00:28:14.380 And it was terrifying.

00:28:16.320 Well, I mean, and to the point that you were making earlier, I did have somebody who was in the pernatalist movement and runs a popular Twitter account.

00:28:23.640 And this is at the pernatalist conference.

00:28:24.860 It's like, take me aside at one point.

00:28:26.500 And he's like, you really know, like, one, he's like, you know, you really need to stay healthy.

00:28:32.060 You need to, like, you need to stay in great terms with your wife.

00:28:35.560 You know, you have to stay together because you do not understand how impactful it would be for the movement if you guys end up splitting up and getting into some messy divorce or something.

00:28:45.220 Or if you ended up dying at this stage.

00:28:47.880 And I was, one, it really made me feel good because this is a popular Twitter account that I had heard of before and everything like that.

00:28:53.880 And it made me feel really good that he felt that way, like, that I was that important. 0.99

00:28:58.260 And, but it also was like, oh, shit. 0.99

00:29:01.780 For this movement to work out, I guess I have to keep pretending to love you, Simone. 1.00

00:29:05.500 But it's so easy when we're both so autistic.

00:29:08.500 I'm not actually diagnosed autistic.

00:29:10.260 She is, but I guess a lot of people.

00:29:11.140 Yeah, but you are definitely not autistic.

00:29:13.200 Like, a lot of commenters have been like, Malcolm definitely should we test you.

00:29:16.880 He's certainly autistic. 0.64

00:29:18.100 But no, like, you are definitely not neurotypical.

00:29:20.880 We know that.

00:29:21.600 Like, that is obvious.

00:29:23.140 But the actual signs and giveaways of autism, you just do not have at all.

00:29:28.600 I have a very, very easy time reading people.

00:29:30.920 It's, oh, I'd say it's one of my strongest skills is reading people.

00:29:34.820 Yeah, I'm on the autist spectrum and you're on the schizoid spectrum, but you're also not schizophrenic.

00:29:39.480 So, like, I don't, and also there's all these other weird things about you that, like, are not on the schizoid or autist, like, spectrum.

00:29:45.940 So, like, I don't, I don't know what it is.

00:29:48.600 You're wonky.

00:29:49.940 I don't, I honestly don't think you're human. 0.96

00:29:51.740 I think you're some kind of godlike entity that has descended from the heavens.

00:29:55.140 And, like, I either am in a coma and I've dreamed of some kind of hero or you are, like, I don't know, you know, your mother used to tell you and your brother that you were, like, you know, she had a vision from a psychic and you would be born to do great things.

00:30:11.080 So, my mom's whole, like, childbearing strategy for us, if you're familiar with Olympia's childbearing strategy for. 0.99

00:30:17.180 That's the mother of Alexander the Great.

00:30:18.900 Alexander the Great, where she'd be, like, your dad isn't really your dad.

00:30:21.160 I was actually impregnated by a snake that was Zeus in disguise and stuff like that.

00:30:25.840 Like, that is not far off from the stuff that my mom would constantly tell me when I was a kid.

00:30:30.780 Always about, oh, I've gone to a psychic and I had visions and I had dreams and that you two were supposed to take over the world. 0.93

00:30:36.860 And she would just over and over and over again.

00:30:39.700 And I remember she told me a story once about somebody at one of my preschools, like, the teacher was, like, Malcolm has, like, a problem where he thinks he's supposed to become, like, a king.

00:30:49.360 And, or an emperor, you know, and my mom was, like, what's, what's the problem there?

00:30:53.920 And the teacher was, like, no, you don't understand.

00:30:55.400 Like, he thinks, literally, like, that's going to be his job when he grows up.

00:31:00.000 And my mom was, like, yeah, of course I raised him to believe that.

00:31:04.160 Why would I raise him to believe less of himself?

00:31:06.440 Why would I raise a mediocre, normal son?

00:31:09.080 So, maybe that just has made you not neurotypical in a way that's not diagnosable in a simple way.

00:31:14.720 I think that that's the type of thing, I think that might be an inherited sense of grandiosity that I probably got from my mom if we're going to be realistic here, where it's, it's, like, bipolar, but only the manics phase.

00:31:27.660 Only, only low-grade manics.

00:31:30.020 Only the highs.

00:31:30.980 Only the highs.

00:31:31.380 No, this has actually been, some people look at the way I act and they're, like, oh, you must be bipolar.

00:31:36.320 Yeah, or, like, on something.

00:31:38.300 What?

00:31:39.140 Or on something.

00:31:40.420 Yeah, or on something or something like that.

00:31:42.700 And I was, like, no, I'm just happy.

00:31:44.500 I'm excited about where things are going and how efficacious.

00:31:48.160 I do get into these slums when I, like, haven't achieved something for a while, which Simone gets me.

00:31:53.060 Another really interesting thing about my biology, when she talks about me, like, overanalyzing and have a very good ability of reading people, is that this ability is also incredibly taxing to me.

00:32:01.980 It's super stressful.

00:32:03.160 Yeah.

00:32:03.260 It's, like, I, yesterday, I finally left the house.

00:32:05.440 I hadn't left the house in a long time, and I was in New York engaging with people, and I met with three people, and the next day I had to sleep, like, half the day.

00:32:13.880 Yeah, like, literally your need for sleep increases intensely.

00:32:17.200 Like, when we're out, like, traveling and entertaining and doing meetings, like, you have to go to a room and pass out and sleep somewhere.

00:32:24.440 And there have been times where you've been at events, and, like, you've had to, like, crawl into a corner and pass out and sleep because, like, just literally your mind can't take that level of, like, heavy compute without taking a breather and, like, clearing out.

00:32:41.120 Yeah, well, I think this is why a lot of people like us, like, we prefer to not, like, work in offices and stuff like that.

00:32:46.920 I got to find that clip from the new Santa Claus, where the Santa Claus is saying, the evil Santa Claus, the evil Santa Claus, I should be clear, is explaining why open workplaces are so taxing on people like us.

00:32:58.300 Where I think for both you and me, for different reasons, we find being around people incredibly taxing.

00:33:04.140 But I like that we so efficiently avoid it, and we do not allow ourselves to become burdened by friends or acquaintances without having a clear utility to be gained by them.

00:33:15.040 Ken Gemberley was sucked into the internet, burdened with new friends and tormented by the bounty hunter chains.

00:33:21.360 He desperately seeks a way home.

00:33:23.220 And what's really interesting is that Simone, potentially because she's autistic, she does not trigger this mental taxation in me.

00:33:30.300 Because there is never anything going on with her that is not at the surface.

00:33:34.980 She always tells me what she is thinking without any, you know, background goals or motivations or gain.

00:33:43.560 Well, there's never a, you know what you did wrong.

00:33:46.200 I shouldn't have to tell you that.

00:33:46.780 You would never say something like that to me.

00:33:48.700 It's always immediately like, this is what I'm telling you what I'm feeling.

00:33:52.480 There is no need for this sort of background processing, which makes it really easy for me to be around you all the time.

00:33:59.460 Which is not, by the way, I should make it clear.

00:34:01.620 Like, Malcolm is Mother Teresa level saint for dealing with me.

00:34:07.880 I'm actually really difficult to live with.

00:34:10.040 So he makes it act like that's not the case.

00:34:12.760 But I can't open doors.

00:34:13.920 And I freak out when my schedule is interrupted.

00:34:16.540 And I can't handle a billion different things.

00:34:19.820 So...

00:34:20.180 Well, I mean, we do this podcast.

00:34:21.500 I want to do the podcast in the same room.

00:34:23.400 I can't handle that.

00:34:24.600 But we do it in different rooms.

00:34:25.680 Is it because she finds it difficult to think when other people are around?

00:34:28.860 Especially me.

00:34:29.640 Like, you find it uniquely hard to think when I'm around and we're in a social context.

00:34:33.680 Yeah.

00:34:34.380 You're very stressful.

00:34:35.480 All humans are very stressful.

00:34:36.880 But, like...

00:34:37.880 Well, you've described it as being very afraid of disappointing me.

00:34:41.520 And this fear, like, increases when I'm near you.

00:34:44.700 Yeah.

00:34:45.620 Yeah.

00:34:46.420 I think that's something that, like, autistic people feel a lot anyway.

00:34:49.500 Like, they...

00:34:50.760 It's exhausting to have to actively emote for people.

00:34:54.680 And then, like, try to, you know, play by their rules.

00:34:59.380 I think especially if you're the kind of autistic person...

00:35:02.460 You know, here's the thing.

00:35:03.500 Okay.

00:35:03.820 I've noticed a pattern with autistic people. 0.99

00:35:05.860 There are autistic people who love spending time around groups.

00:35:09.360 And we know a couple personally and then just, like, informationally.

00:35:13.520 Who tend to actually be weirdly social.

00:35:17.760 Like, weirdly prefer to be surrounded by people.

00:35:20.100 Those autistic people are typically not very good at masking at all. 1.00

00:35:26.760 They're not mirroring facial expressions.

00:35:29.100 They're not, like...

00:35:30.500 They're not autoresponding LLM style in a way that they think will please other people.

00:35:34.780 Like, they're literally just being themselves and not being very expressive.

00:35:38.500 And not accommodating other people.

00:35:40.960 And then there are the autistic people who you would never know are autistic, who are really 1.00

00:35:47.460 good at masking, who mirror facial expressions.

00:35:50.260 And they hate being around people because it's so mentally taxing and exhausting just to, like,

00:35:56.520 accommodate them and try to make them happy.

00:35:58.940 And, like, to fake being a good companion or, like, decent socially.

00:36:05.940 And that...

00:36:06.900 I think that's a big differentiating factor.

00:36:08.700 And I am one of those people who grew up masking and, therefore, being around anyone, even...

00:36:13.800 Especially, actually.

00:36:14.760 Especially if it's someone that I love and really want to make happy.

00:36:17.000 And you are that.

00:36:17.720 Like, if you are not happy, the world is broken.

00:36:20.200 I can't.

00:36:21.460 I can't do it.

00:36:22.040 We got to do the line, people. 1.00

00:36:23.360 What a bunch of bastards. 1.00

00:36:24.460 Put that clip in here. 1.00

00:36:26.060 Because that is...

00:36:27.060 That is your, like, I've met enough of them.

00:36:29.340 I've met enough of them.

00:36:30.860 Talk to get out there and meet other people.

00:36:33.820 Other people.

00:36:35.320 Yes.

00:36:38.640 You mean people other than Roy?

00:36:41.740 Well, yes.

00:36:43.120 And these other people, where do they congregate?

00:36:46.680 Well, I don't know.

00:36:47.160 You could try and do an evening class or something.

00:36:48.800 Whoa, whoa.

00:36:49.280 Hold on a second now.

00:36:50.120 And what exactly am I supposed to do while she's out gallivanting at her night classes and whatnot?

00:36:54.600 Well, you could meet other people as well.

00:36:56.840 Yeah.

00:36:57.980 I don't like people.

00:36:59.840 Oh, well, now, that's not fair, Roy.

00:37:01.840 Have you met all of them?

00:37:02.820 I've met enough of them.

00:37:03.980 People. 1.00

00:37:06.500 What a bunch of bastards. 1.00

00:37:10.360 Think about a show with staying power. 1.00

00:37:12.240 I'll tell you what.

00:37:12.960 The IT crowd is just amazing.

00:37:15.300 Anyway, I recently edited in a clip from the IT crowd in one of the episodes.

00:37:19.460 And I might edit in this clip here because I just love it so much.

00:37:21.480 It's a wooshy thinking clip.

00:37:22.560 Space.

00:37:24.080 What is it?

00:37:26.060 The simple answer is we don't know.

00:37:29.440 Or at least we didn't know until now.

00:37:31.500 Hello, I'm Douglas Renham, and I'm not a scientist.

00:37:35.240 But I do have a better understanding of what space is than any scientist living today.

00:37:40.180 Where did I gain these insights?

00:37:42.960 From this man, the founder of spaceology.

00:37:46.560 Beth Gar-Gar Shaggy is the founder of spaceology.

00:37:50.860 A religion, not a cult.

00:37:53.180 In other words, when it comes to space, he's the man with his head screwed on tight.

00:37:57.400 This is what he told me when I met him on holiday two weeks ago.

00:38:02.020 Space is invisible mind dust, and stars are but wishes.

00:38:07.160 I mean, think about that.

00:38:09.200 That means every star you can see in the night sky is a wish that has come true.

00:38:14.660 And they've come true because of something he calls space star ordering.

00:38:20.060 Space star ordering is based on the twin scientific principles of star maths and wishy thinking.

00:38:27.400 If that doesn't convince you, well then, maybe you just don't deserve to get what you want.

00:38:33.020 Oh, that's great.

00:38:34.420 Hour of wishes.

00:38:35.880 This was in the episode on the Tesseract God.

00:38:39.760 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:38:41.140 Why conservative iterations of faith are more likely to be true than more progressive interpretations of faith.

00:38:48.680 Because, well, we go into it in the episode.

00:38:51.400 You should check it out if you want to see it.

00:38:53.320 Because it is very interesting.

00:38:54.660 And we do a lot of quotes in it, too, from the Bible, the Koran, all sorts of stuff.

00:38:59.280 Because I argue that even from the perspective of these traditions, they would be arguing this as well, which is always fun.

00:39:05.820 But anyway, I enjoy this conversation.

00:39:07.240 And I'm going to actually hold to my guns.

00:39:08.460 I think you're completely wrong about autistic people and perinatalism.

00:39:11.040 And I think that, honestly, if you went into any affiliative movement, be it like a church, like go into a nunnery, go into like, you know, a really weird priest order where they're all silent.

00:39:25.420 Go into like a really obscure engineering business or like an anime circle.

00:39:31.060 The people who are most enthusiastic and passionate are autistic. 1.00

00:39:35.480 Because autists go all the way. 1.00

00:39:37.440 I just had a great idea.

00:39:38.740 Next time we're talking to you by a reporter or something like this, we need to have you subtly drop that you want to replace the rest of the population with autistic people. 0.99

00:39:46.840 We need to have you.

00:39:48.440 What do we call it?

00:39:49.420 The greater replacement?

00:39:50.600 The greater replacement.

00:39:52.140 The complete solution.

00:39:53.740 No, no.

00:39:54.160 You've got to say it's the greater replacement theory.

00:39:56.220 I really like that.

00:39:57.180 The greater replacement.

00:39:57.560 I have a greater replacement theory.

00:39:59.120 I'm a greater replacement theorist where the autists are trying to replace us. 1.00

00:40:04.180 And Simone, here, you affirm you as an autist are trying to replace them now, right? 0.97

00:40:08.580 Like that's what the perinatalist movement is really about.

00:40:10.920 Yeah.

00:40:11.400 We need some progressive to freak out about this.

00:40:14.460 The greater replacement theory.

00:40:15.920 The greater replacement.

00:40:17.340 You are the best, Simone.

00:40:18.640 You are hilarious.

00:40:23.060 Not as hilarious as you are and our kids.

00:40:26.120 But you know what?

00:40:27.360 I love you to bits.

00:40:28.400 Thank you so much.

00:40:29.440 I love you too.

00:40:30.080 And you guys have no idea how lucky I am to have a wife who says such nice things about me.

00:40:35.580 You really do have immense gratitude.

00:40:38.800 And as I say, that's always the number one thing to look for in a spouse these days.

00:40:42.680 And the sign of a true gentleman is that you will end up believing that his wife is a truly wonderful woman, despite the fact that all women are absolutely horrible. 1.00

00:40:52.580 So I love you. 0.56

00:40:53.360 Oh, no.

00:40:54.340 Oh, Walt.

00:40:55.120 Oh, Walt.

00:40:55.880 I should have known.

00:40:56.840 Wait until you're divorced. 1.00

00:40:57.800 It's going to be crazy.

00:41:00.900 It's going to be terrible.

00:41:03.820 You can miss all my kids to hate me.

00:41:06.100 I mean, it's inevitable, obviously.

00:41:08.900 And then I'll show them these videos and you'll say, oh, it was all an act.

00:41:12.040 It was an act.

00:41:12.740 Yeah.

00:41:12.940 It was 100% a lie.

00:41:14.500 Didn't you see all of the writing on the wall?

00:41:16.720 Goodbye to you and your beautiful face.

00:41:24.400 I love you. 1.00

00:41:24.860 Your stinky, silly face. 1.00

00:41:27.220 I love you. 1.00

00:41:27.680 I'm sorry.

00:41:27.760 I love you.

00:41:28.960 I love you.

00:41:29.120 I mean, I don't know.

00:41:29.700 I love you.

00:41:31.200 I love you.

00:41:32.140 I love you.

00:41:32.840 I love you.

00:41:33.160 I love you.

00:41:33.520 I love you.

00:41:33.560 I'm sorry.

Based Camp - December 26, 2023

Why is the Pro-Natalist Movement Disproportionally Autistic？

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