Based Camp - Why is ＂Us Vs. Them Thinking＂ Villainized？ (When A ＂Them＂ Really Exists)

00:00:00.000 hello simone it's exciting to be here with you today today we are going to be discussing

00:00:07.600 us versus them mindsets and i you know sometimes i'll post transcript of our episodes into you know

00:00:15.360 ai to see what it thinks of the arguments oh no and it just accuses you of the most frequent

00:00:21.840 complaint i get yeah is it uses the quote-unquote fallacy of an ups versus them mindset a fallacy

00:00:32.640 and i'm like it's a mindset how is a mindset invalidated even if it's like an evil mindset

00:00:38.240 they don't even call it a mindset they call it a a psychological bias an us versus them psychological

00:00:43.440 bias and so we'll get into like why ai think that this is such a bad thing because i hear it even

00:00:48.080 more from ai than i do from typical urban monocultural people but i do see it from the

00:00:51.920 urban monocultural really like oh well that's the us versus them you know fallacy or whatever or bias or

00:00:58.320 you know psychological and i'm like this is actually really messed up and i would argue that the core

00:01:05.120 reason why us versus them has been so widely framed as a bias is because it allows members of any any

00:01:15.760 potential group and the urban monoculture has evolved this as a framework the urban monoculture

00:01:19.520 is sort of what other people call like wokeism or broadly progressivism it allows and what's

00:01:24.880 interesting is is they will tell you don't use an us versus a mindset while using it themselves

00:01:29.680 when talking about the deplorables or or or trump voters or something like that right like

00:01:34.480 clearly they have an us versus a mindset but then they will tell you hey

00:01:38.480 hey you know you you can't adopt this mindset and it's a strategy that specifically evolved to

00:01:47.360 prevent you from seeing them as the enemy and rallying around opposing them there is a them

00:01:53.280 and they are working against your interests like this is the thing and this is why i'm so against this

00:01:58.880 hey i hate us versus them it makes sense for you as a human to divide humanity into groups that oppose

00:02:07.600 your interests and groups that are aligned with your interests because there are groups that are

00:02:13.760 opposed to your interest and even more than just groups that are opposed to your interests there are

00:02:20.880 groups that are explicitly around you know whether it's racial or gender or the cultural groups that

00:02:30.400 have banded together specifically so that people like them can out compete people like you

00:02:36.720 right and they make it the urban monoculture makes it the most punishable for individuals within the

00:02:47.840 groups that it it victimizes most frequently to create a group identity as an us to oppose any them

00:02:56.960 so recently there was a post i saw that i thought was really shocking that somebody just nakedly had a

00:03:04.080 a publication turned down because the paper right now was not taking publications from white men we're

00:03:10.800 just not gonna do that no no we haven't done enough none that is just racism and sexism but if you said

00:03:19.920 hey white men feel there is a group of individuals who are opposing them in part around gender or ethnic lines

00:03:29.200 and that it makes sense for them to have some sort of camaraderie around that in terms of opposing that

00:03:34.720 the urban monoculture would completely have a conniption fit whereas if you look at the culture

00:03:41.280 like the groups that it it it uplifts like it well pretends to uplift see our episode on okay but what's

00:03:48.240 what was the episode title where we showed that basically equality is something like the racism

00:03:53.680 maybe quality quality yeah but like black culture for example uh if you look at kwanzaa like a specific

00:04:01.360 part of kwanzaa is only shopping at black owned businesses like it doesn't it doesn't see any issue

00:04:07.920 with this yet if somebody said i only want to shop at white owned businesses right and and keep in mind

00:04:13.840 i mean presumably just imagining anyone being like support your white owned businesses this week that would

00:04:20.080 i just yeah i don't know like well i mean and people can be like oh come on these businesses

00:04:25.440 aren't advantaged well first of all there's all sorts of loans that they can get that clearly makes them

00:04:29.600 an advantage oh my gosh yeah but they're subject to racism in terms of who shops there and i'm like

00:04:35.200 we can see that that's objectively not the case also like how do you find out how would you know that i

00:04:40.800 mean unless they actively advertise it they do actively advertise it if you yeah because it's to the

00:04:46.000 advantage but like if you go to google maps or if you go to yelp it will say like black or a woman

00:04:51.840 owned business that's because they know it will help them but if they right that's the point i'm

00:04:56.160 making here the very fact that they are opting in to listing with this identification and i have

00:05:03.120 never seen a business advertised as a white or male owned business a male owned proudly male owned

00:05:09.920 since 1984 can we do that can we do oh my god i'm gonna do that with our businesses proudly a white

00:05:17.360 male owned business um wow uh no no but the point being is that the reason why people don't advertise

00:05:26.320 with that is because they know that there is a prejudice against white male owned businesses yeah

00:05:32.240 absolutely and and that they will get fewer customers while there is a a a positive prejudice

00:05:38.640 towards women or i love they say minority owned when these days minority is such like a self

00:05:44.880 opt-in identification one of the the funniest ways this shows is is native americans have like

00:05:50.080 abysmal fertility rates and yet the quote-unquote native american population has grown by like 90

00:05:55.600 in the past 10 years and it's just deciding to identify a native american like pocahontas elizabeth

00:06:01.520 warren what was she like 117th native american or something i thought she didn't turn out to have

00:06:06.240 any oh maybe not at all indigenous ancestry yeah that was my understanding but the point here being

00:06:13.600 is and i'm making in this wider argument is

00:06:20.320 the reason they're imposing this restriction around a dallas versus a mindset on you

00:06:25.440 is so that you cannot recognize what they are doing to you and so that the people who they victimize

00:06:32.640 most cannot fight back that's the entire purpose of this so now we'll look at the arguments that

00:06:39.520 they use against us versus a mindset to point out that they are fairly stupid arguments so

00:06:45.920 over simplification and binary thinking it reduces complex issues to good verse evil right verse wrong

00:06:53.680 ignoring nuances for instance people tend to excuse flaws of their own group attributing them to external

00:07:00.560 factors while blaming inherent traits for the same issues in out groups this can escalate minor

00:07:06.880 disagreements into full-blown divisions as seen in political polarization where one side defies itself

00:07:14.000 and demonizes the other sorry deifies itself and demonizes the other and i'm like i don't think

00:07:18.880 that that's true at all the the opposite political party is genuinely i think pretty vile right now like i i

00:07:26.560 don't see that much i'm like redeeming when we attack them we attack them because of what they are attempting

00:07:34.400 to accomplish and what they say they want which is a a racially segregated society like i don't think that

00:07:42.080 that's a good thing a racially segregated society was jews at the bottom i think that maybe we've seen

00:07:47.120 this before and it is bad and it makes sense to be like ah them that they're doing the thing the thing they've done

00:07:54.400 before we need to stop this presumably not a great thing no it's so funny like the the freaking bizarre

00:08:18.400 like the same people we know like educated productive people they'll like share stuff with us that is

00:08:26.640 obviously made up about things that's like happening in gaza right now and i'm like you you can tell this

00:08:32.640 is obviously fake right like you you know this is fake and no they they won't like the the the tendency

00:08:38.400 to want to see jews in the most negative possible light i think is incredibly high across populations

00:08:45.520 in part because well that's a whole other video i'm not gonna get too far into that but but i will

00:08:52.960 say that we've seen this before like i i find it crazy that was in my lifetime i remember walking

00:08:58.800 through london at night i don't go out at night and seeing an angry very large mob shouting you know

00:09:04.560 from the river to the sea marching through the streets and and very explicitly anti-semitic things

00:09:10.800 and then seeing you know death death to the idf and stuff like that at the end the the concert this

00:09:15.920 giant concerts giant crowd of progressives seeing this death death to the idf death death to the idf

00:09:22.480 death death to the idf

00:09:24.240 hell yeah from the river to the sea so just in case you forgot the idf is a mandatory conscription

00:09:40.720 service for all people of a certain age in israel so when you say death to the idf or at least all

00:09:46.240 jews of a certain age you're saying death to the jews when you say from the river to the sea that is

00:09:51.200 the entire land of israel you were saying you want to eradicate all of the jews in their homeland

00:09:58.240 so people could be like oh well you know you shouldn't lump this group in as evil and i'm like

00:10:02.640 they're trying to divide us into an ethnic caste system which is at the bottom like maybe we do

00:10:07.440 need to treat this seriously right and they they do directly oppose the interests of individuals like

00:10:13.520 myself i mean anybody who is a white male in our existing economy knows very well that there are

00:10:20.160 many jobs you just can't apply to anymore i mean i remember being told really destroying sort of my

00:10:25.680 life's dream my life's dream was to become a professor at stanford and at their business school

00:10:30.400 right and so i got my mba and i i i did classes there and i did all of the steps the the career

00:10:37.840 paths i went down the going into vc and private equity through the path of a search fund was the

00:10:44.720 number one most common pass for the professors at the university yeah i went down it with that as my

00:10:50.000 intention and so one day i'm talking with the professor he's a very and he goes oh well you

00:10:54.800 know obviously this is off the books but there is a ban on hiring white perfect white male professors

00:10:59.520 right now through through anything other there was one pathway that they could be hired if they went

00:11:04.960 through the traditional academic pathway but not through the becoming a good business person or a

00:11:09.440 well-known public intellectual pathway and i was just like well that sucks i think people can you

00:11:16.960 know emphasize this because they've seen it in shows and stuff like that but to actually have it happen

00:11:22.000 in your own life to work your entire life to follow all the rules to achieve your dream job and then be

00:11:30.720 told i'm sorry actually this was never really available to people who were born with your skin tone

00:11:36.720 is incredibly disheartening and people can be like oh well now we're just doing it to to you what

00:11:44.800 you guys did to us and it's like my ancestors never did this to you my ancestors fought and died so that

00:11:49.120 you could be free and equal you know as as i've mentioned of the founding members of the free state of

00:11:54.000 jones 15 of the 50 were either kids of or siblings of my direct ancestors um you know you

00:12:01.440 you you have just flopped the roles you are acting evil and there is a reason why we are trying to destroy

00:12:13.440 this system also we we know young college grads who've just come out and been told again off the record listen

00:12:25.440 we just can't you don't even try like we don't hire people of your ethnic group yeah like hey i think

00:12:32.800 you're you know a nice guy you look hard working don't bother i don't want you to waste your time

00:12:38.560 because it's going to waste your time that's so sad yeah and whites need not apply no i mean it's it's a

00:12:45.040 common thing like it's it's it's a and the people who say this isn't a common thing i i like i'm actually

00:12:51.600 sort of baffled are they living in a different reality like do they not have well i mean i could

00:12:57.040 see like maybe in a midwestern agricultural you know farming world that there aren't these same

00:13:03.760 quotas based on identity people are just hiring practically and they're absolutely hiring immigrants

00:13:10.320 and they're absolutely hiring locals like they're just hiring actually based on you know availability

00:13:14.800 merit like if they're willing to do the work i i do think that we're mostly talking about honestly

00:13:19.680 the jobs that are first going to be automated away by ai those white collar knowledge worker

00:13:25.440 middle management desk jobs so it's almost a moot point at this point anyway and i almost feel like

00:13:29.920 to a certain extent young white men have been given an advantage because they have been forced out of

00:13:34.960 these jobs before they cease to exist and they are ahead of everyone else and figuring out alternative

00:13:41.280 revenue streams and careers that are not going to be on the chopping block of ai instead and this is

00:13:48.080 why i said i think for example like women and other people who have a disproportionate advantage in

00:13:52.960 large bureaucracies in these middle management roles in large companies are going to be extra screwed by

00:13:58.960 the ai revolution so yeah maybe maybe it was a good thing you know yeah i mean it's it's like if you

00:14:05.680 have a group that is very obviously being discriminated against within a social order or by a cultural

00:14:10.400 system the most effective thing you can do is to villainize creating a pan cultural identity imagine

00:14:19.280 if during segregation for example they had culturally villainized building a sort of pan black identity

00:14:26.000 in the same way that they culturally villainize any sort of like pan white identity within a modern

00:14:30.480 context or or even like minority white like we often i don't identify as white as much as i identify as

00:14:36.640 greater appalachian or backwoods cultural tradition or puritan cultural tradition both of which i'm

00:14:41.280 descended from you're here i think it's similar i mean we've talked about this many times about how

00:14:45.280 we think that the the concept of i mean at least now having spent more time working in latin america

00:14:51.680 working with people from various latin american like especially south american countries seeing this

00:14:56.720 concept of being latino or latina or latin latin latinx the worst of all in the united states is being so

00:15:02.720 insensitive because they're like dude i'm not latina or hispanic i'm like colombian i'm brazilian

00:15:09.680 they're trying to force them into this larger group but i you know what bothers me though

00:15:15.440 that yeah and they are trying to force them into this larger group what i don't get is when white

00:15:19.280 people themselves are like i'm white when i'm like i don't i don't yeah like i'm like i'm like you

00:15:26.320 i see myself as a specific subculture that may be predominantly white but like more has to do with

00:15:34.400 you know a specific european geographic region or more likely just a cultural subculture well i mean

00:15:41.120 the reason why it does make sense for white to all just be one thing well no no no but for people to

00:15:47.760 attempt to build identity around this or community around this is because that is a shared reason for

00:15:54.640 their discrimination in the same way that like gay people and trans people really have very little

00:16:00.480 in common and probably should not be in the same bucket the reason why each group was discriminated

00:16:05.440 against historically was largely the same reason oh because you're not x you're not hetero right so

00:16:12.640 whether whether i'm of the backwoods tradition or i'm a white catholic or i'm a white you know like

00:16:19.120 cavalier descendant regardless of that all of these groups are being discriminated against by the same

00:16:25.440 individuals and so when they're attempting to band together to sort of work towards any form of real

00:16:33.760 equal playing field they and i love people can be like how can you say there's an equal playing field

00:16:39.840 and these groups are making more money than these groups and i'm like well i mean there's groups that

00:16:45.120 out earn us in an equal playing field like i note that japanese immigrants had everything taken from

00:16:49.520 them and now they're out earning white people fairly well that's what i was thinking when when

00:16:53.920 we were talking about this too is how like japanese people jews you know these have been

00:16:58.560 groups that have faced systemic and long-term discrimination and it has made them sharper in many

00:17:03.760 ways so are white men really screwed if they're now being discriminated against maybe not i mean

00:17:08.080 that's a good point and you're forcing them to create their own companies and and find independent

00:17:12.080 sources of income is also going to make it easier to create larger families yeah especially at higher

00:17:17.440 levels of wealth which we're actually seeing in the statistics i've pointed out many times that black

00:17:21.840 americans for example have the lowest fertility rate of all ethnic groups in the united states by a

00:17:25.840 significant margin when they're not in the bottom 20 20 of black income okay so next reason here it says

00:17:31.680 to not create this prejudice and discrimination by categorizing people into rigid groups it fosters

00:17:37.600 exclusion stereotypes and even dehumanization this can manifest in everyday settings like workplaces

00:17:43.440 where teams develop an us versus them dynamic that stifles creativity and collaboration in some cases

00:17:49.920 it contributes to violence and systemic bias such as policing where offices view their role as a battle

00:17:56.560 against the bad guy or officers view their role as a battle and i'm like but like that's already

00:18:01.200 happening like if you're a group that is already being discriminated against attempting to be like

00:18:07.600 hey we should work together like that's what do you mean but in addition to this the idea of of

00:18:14.800 prejudice or stereotypes more broadly like stereotypes are a useful thing in terms of interacting with the

00:18:21.440 world people are different like diversity would have no value if everyone was exactly the same if every

00:18:28.640 human was interchangeable with every other human then there would be no point to diversity to begin with

00:18:34.160 so because that's the case because well doesn't the rivalry also breed healthy competition in a way

00:18:40.000 that makes everyone stronger yeah and i will note here when i say diversity is and i agree with what you

00:18:45.840 just said there that rivalry helps make everyone stronger competition helps make everyone stronger

00:18:50.480 that's part of why capitalism produces so much more economic thriving than other economic systems

00:18:55.280 but god what was the point i was going to make before i'm sorry for interrupting you

00:19:07.760 oh yes the stereotypes are very important because they're real right like you you can build behavioral

00:19:16.400 patterns of specific groups and make predictions based on those behavioral patterns but even more than that

00:19:25.440 through those patterns you can build a sense of identity like the stereotypes of your own group help you build

00:19:32.240 a sense of identity when we look to build a sense of identity for our family we look to the historic

00:19:37.040 you know backwards cultural tradition and the puritan cultural tradition the calvinist cultural tradition

00:19:40.960 tradition because that's who we are um and so i i i can't you know like if if those groups weren't

00:19:49.200 different from other groups in some way we wouldn't be able to learn from them right like i point out to

00:19:54.800 many people and we go into more detail on this in the pragmatist guide to life you know the pragmatist

00:19:59.120 guide to relationships i want to say or govern no i don't know which one i with this was my no

00:20:05.600 crafting religion is where we go into it that a good example of historic like a calvinist

00:20:09.840 a puritan stereotypes if you're not familiar with what they were comes from the ebenezer scrooge

00:20:14.400 character that was definitely religion yeah which is very much just and and these are a bunch of

00:20:20.720 negative caricatures but that doesn't mean that i can't learn from them and develop something from

00:20:25.520 them i think when many people have a sense of ethnic or cultural pride many of the things you take pride in

00:20:32.560 are otherwise framed negatively by other people yeah like scrooge was known as incredibly tight

00:20:40.000 with money didn't heat the house in the winter very you know all all the same with us didn't you

00:20:45.920 know was logical in the way he distributed his his wealth he didn't give it to an employee just because

00:20:50.720 they were closer to him but he did donate to local shelters it was made very clear and saved money for

00:20:55.440 that you know so why does this person tiny tim deserve more from him than the community at large just

00:21:02.240 because he's more adjacent to him you know we often note that the entire story is sort of a corrective

00:21:08.800 grape fantasy of the calvinist stereotypes of that time period and and i read it i'm just like scrooge was

00:21:14.480 right scrooge was right from the beginning man stop being so indulgent you need to learn to be more

00:21:19.200 frugal you know it's eight mush every day but the point is stereotypes broadly speaking as a society

00:21:27.680 are more beneficial than they are negative well and people of specific groups who appear to have a

00:21:35.680 lot of pride in their groups are the the ones i see roasting their own groups the most you know there's

00:21:42.800 there's enjoyment of the making fun of of your own stereotypes you see this a lot with mormon culture

00:21:50.240 you see this with every culture i mean look at like comedians bits this is just how it goes well i

00:21:55.200 mean and within the urban monoculture you are very much allowed to make stereotypes about white men

00:22:01.600 there are so many stereotypes that the urban monoculture will say about white men they'll

00:22:04.880 even shout like kill white men and people won't lose their job over this that i mean if that's not

00:22:10.560 a sign of an extreme level of racial and gender oppression normalized within a culture then everybody

00:22:18.640 knows like kill hetero white men like this is a thing that is said frequently in environments like

00:22:23.840 tumblr and x and blue sky right i'm sure we've gotten it as a reply to like our tweets before

00:22:29.440 right along with a set of stereotypes i would rather just normalize stereotypes for everyone

00:22:36.000 instead of have it be they say oh we need to ban people making fun of white men because that's

00:22:41.920 that's illogical right yeah i mean i'm all for everyone being made fun of come on let's have let's have fun

00:22:48.800 there is though i would point out because there's a little bit of hypocrisy in all this

00:22:57.760 a very mainstream means of us versus them mentality that is celebrated long-standing full of creativity

00:23:08.080 and no one's complaining about it i mean sometimes it leads to property damage and vandalism

00:23:15.040 and occasional riots but it's still not only a celebrated and time-honored tradition around the

00:23:22.000 world but a a huge source of industry and capitalistic profit do you know what i'm talking about sports yes

00:23:31.600 sports rivalries are amazing but it's funny and i mean there's the the mascot stealing the vandalism

00:23:39.440 did you know about the harvard versus yale we suck card stunt it's one of my favorite examples of a

00:23:48.400 yale students posed as as harvard prep squad people they they distributed in this in this role

00:23:56.640 placards to harvard fans claiming that they would spell out go harvard you know how like you know

00:24:01.680 audiences in a big stadium will put up cards but then when displayed the cards actually spelled we

00:24:07.360 suck which is just delightful like i it's a rival like people love these rivalries and that what i

00:24:14.960 love about this too is it shows how you can have big time us versus them mentality and like actually do

00:24:23.680 some i mean that was an innocent prank but there have been like there there have been riots there have

00:24:27.920 there have been fights there it gets intense and yet everyone's ultimately playing the same

00:24:34.080 game the rivalries sharpen teams against each other they motivate fun i mean why why can't we have

00:24:42.480 ethnic rivalries that i mean maybe without the riots in the city maybe without the riots yeah maybe

00:24:48.960 without the vandalism i mean you know what would be really fun actually oh my god ethnic based sports

00:24:56.240 teams in the u.s no no because there are too many like ethnic specializations the ethnic specializations

00:25:04.560 yeah so then i mean i mean i don't know if it's like universal i don't know everybody wouldn't even

00:25:09.360 wouldn't even care like everyone knows the black teams win every year and so it's for the second

00:25:14.320 spot that you're fighting that's sweet yeah or would it just become too obvious too quickly that like

00:25:21.280 this is actually the order of ethnicities was in this sport in terms of competence yeah yeah i think

00:25:26.880 yeah it's it's a little better when there's a shot at excellence i mean of course though that would

00:25:33.680 do so well as a show i had a reality show i would do that i would i would you you know how they had

00:25:39.520 that one reality show where they divided the teams into women versus men and it did really

00:25:44.240 it was like a survival style or was it just survivor it into like self-sabotage and like hating

00:25:49.840 each other almost immediately and the male team was like all broey and just as like hey let's figure

00:25:54.880 out how to fish let's figure out how to hunt let's build a shelter and the women were just and they had

00:25:59.280 to end up like bailing out the female team so put that together but divide people based on ethnic group

00:26:08.000 it would go so viral it would go so viral yes you'd get a bunch of complaints at the studio

00:26:13.920 but it would go so viral and i i feel like people would tune in just to be like would you watch it

00:26:21.440 would you be like imagine imagine if you could even like team korean or something like have your little

00:26:28.960 flag and everything i mean yeah i mean we kind of do it with the olympics you just want to see it on

00:26:35.360 you know some other well no because it's cheating i mean the u.s wins the olympics was was like i i

00:26:42.560 want to see it based on immigrant groups like like specific ethno cultural groups right right because

00:26:47.680 like the usa also just attracts the best talent from all the other countries and then it gets to be

00:26:51.920 like oh usa wins when it's oh yeah usa wins because no if you win the olympics for some other country

00:26:57.360 at like running or something you say it's like okay come here run for us right yeah yeah you'll be able to

00:27:02.400 eat yeah it's true yeah you you sort of have like maybe two people from ultimately the same

00:27:09.840 genetic lineage being first and second place but like usa wins because i i never understand sports

00:27:15.680 because so much of it is just genetics it's like why are you see that's why that's why we need the

00:27:22.160 what's his name who's doing the the like ride rage version of the olympics what does oh yeah we

00:27:29.760 we had on our podcast like the olympics but with steroids yeah what did you call them there's

00:27:35.920 something games or something but anyway it's gonna be happening apparently well it was supposed to

00:27:40.400 happen this summer i wonder if it's already happened well let's see steroid steroid olympics okay i'll go to

00:27:49.280 the next one amplification in modern society media games sorry so what what happened did it happen

00:27:56.880 looks like it's been moved to may 2026 hmm gotta give people time to get all hyped up on their

00:28:04.320 i mean to get the right regimen it takes a while you gotta let's do it right let's do it right okay

00:28:09.760 with that i want kid fights like that ABC piece that had our kids fighting and you're like every day

00:28:15.600 is hunger games in our house i actually would not mind just put sock and boppers on kids set them after

00:28:23.360 each other in like a field i mean our kids caged in the crib this is like a joke but i used to go

00:28:28.720 to rodeos as a kid in like rural texas well they don't do that no no the kids are still doing well

00:28:34.160 you have the the cattle the cattle what they do is before the show they release a cow like a calf

00:28:43.040 that like runs around or like a pig i think they do in some environments and all of the kids run around

00:28:48.080 in the mud which is like where the the horses are going to be doing their thing and try to catch it

00:28:52.880 and and it's it's a very aggressive sort of a thing and i want more of that i i find that more

00:28:59.440 entertaining than the rodeo just just more you just want the hunger games you just want tributes

00:29:05.600 i do why can't i have the hunger games this is all this is this is clearly unfair the way society is

00:29:10.800 structured people would volunteer 100 people would volunteer amplification in modern society

00:29:19.360 media and social platforms exploit this for engagement turning differences into threats and

00:29:24.160 eroding trust well hold on if they are actively targeting a group that you're in

00:29:32.880 that's that's saying you should still trust them even when they target you

00:29:37.440 that's a really effed up thing to be telling somebody it can create self-fulfilling prophecies

00:29:44.320 where perceived divisions become real ones worsening problems like climate denial or social unrest

00:29:49.920 it's like this is what's true and what you believe isn't true and anybody who's a climate denialist

00:29:55.520 they're in this other camp i love even in the ai's answer it creates the other but i recently saw

00:30:00.800 a reddit post about this where somebody was like i can't believe you know my grandmother

00:30:07.360 who raised me posted this and it was a meme about how a guy who had gotten a degree at like a

00:30:14.000 fancy university in philosophy was about to have his power shut off by somebody who's earning a lot

00:30:20.160 more and had gotten like an associate's degree from in like electronics right like fixing fixing

00:30:24.960 like it's an electrician basically just being like hey this is the path you want to take and

00:30:28.960 they're like oh they're right trying to turn the working class against each other and it's like

00:30:34.640 what this guy was a philosophy degree is the working class who's working as a as a associate

00:30:41.600 professor he is not the working class but you have identified him as such because you are trying to

00:30:47.920 identify the blue collar workers as being not a group you are victimizing but the same type of

00:30:52.960 people as yourself when they are not the same type of people as yourself yeah that's messed up

00:30:57.120 this is what i'm talking about here when they're like amplification modern society that social media are

00:31:02.720 you know as you turn this to create group divides they want to hide that these group divides are real

00:31:09.920 and exacerbated by their side right like and this is the thing about us versus them and why it is so

00:31:17.840 threatening to the urban monoculture because the us if you look at the new right coalition you know

00:31:22.960 you've got like the tech right like us who are you know like pro-gay marriage pro all sorts of things

00:31:28.960 that the right no longer opposes as like a mainstream party you know i would support you know abortion

00:31:34.160 at the level of like you know within the first few days but but i would support like stricter

00:31:40.320 abortion access and it's available in any state right now or in most states right now certainly my own

00:31:46.000 state so like my interests all align with the republican party's interests you know i i may not support like

00:31:53.280 forcing a christian education on everyone but i do want to get the weird trans stuff out of schools

00:31:59.200 which is what they're actually fighting for at like a government level right now right so like my

00:32:04.800 interests are perfectly overlapping with their interests right now and so even though we're very

00:32:10.320 diverse and this was actually shown in a graph that came out if you look at the perspectives within

00:32:14.880 the modern conservative party it's like this giant circle right now yeah because with the modern

00:32:18.640 democratic party it's this very very very tight circle yeah we did an episode on this like the

00:32:23.040 spider webs they look like spider webs did we ever publish that episode yeah i think we did yeah but

00:32:29.360 the us versus them but saying oh you can't create an us versus them dynamic basically makes it so that you

00:32:35.360 can't ally with people who are different from you because when i say us versus them or i'm talking

00:32:40.240 in us versus them concept the us on my side includes like traditionalist christians and orthodox jews

00:32:49.280 and amish and i think the funny thing though is when you look within the new right and you see

00:32:55.280 all these different subgroups one the left tries to frame it as oh it's fractured and it can barely

00:33:01.760 hold together and actually we are all no we're very friendly but there is a little bit of that friendly

00:33:07.840 sports team type rivalry there actually is us in them i would argue you know like the catholics

00:33:13.280 like yeah you guys are going to hell for ivf and we're like yeah you guys are kind of going for hell

00:33:16.400 for not you know like you're killing kids by not and for people who don't understand what she means

00:33:21.120 by saying that is we think that you are morally responsible for the differences in the timeline

00:33:25.440 that your choices create yeah so if you make a choice that prevents the human being who otherwise

00:33:30.480 come to exist from coming to exist you have functionally killed that human being regardless

00:33:34.640 if that happened before the egg was fertilized or not and we have very animated but genial and and fun in

00:33:41.920 in that very like sports rivalry style debates with these different groups who and they express

00:33:48.400 pride in their view and we express pride in our view and we but we still talk and in exchange and i do

00:33:54.800 think that like weirdly the us versus them rivalry that is functional is within the new the new right and

00:34:01.680 a really good example of toxic us versus them mentality uh is is between the right and the left maybe the

00:34:09.120 issue is that us versus them only works when there's exchange and if there isn't then it becomes toxic

00:34:14.960 what do you think what do you mean exchange collaboration interplay commerce yeah on our

00:34:23.120 my little pony episode that's sort of what we show right like the pegasus and the unicorns and the earth

00:34:28.640 ponies all may be different in their capacities but that doesn't mean they can't be friends and work

00:34:32.080 together towards a common outcome against groups that are genuinely opposed to all of their interests

00:34:38.880 and and that's what we're dealing with today you know in this episode i've talked about like why

00:34:42.400 would diversity have any value if people aren't really different and while i believe diversity

00:34:46.160 is a thing of value the analogy i use is this like ingredients it has value like not not in an

00:34:51.760 absolute sense a meal isn't better because it has more diversity if you have more ingredients

00:34:56.080 it's the right mix of ingredients to create a dish and a chef is better off for more ingredients

00:35:01.200 existing in the world but you don't need them here in my backyard right and i think that

00:35:06.400 what we create when we have an us and this is what's really dangerous is the clear thing about

00:35:11.920 us versus them is us versus them rarely creates the us around just your cultural group right when us

00:35:19.920 versus them thinking happens most frequently it's because the us is combining multiple groups into

00:35:26.000 a dish instead of just one group of versus them like the urban monoculture doesn't need us versus

00:35:32.160 them thinking because there's a right way of doing things and there's a wrong way of doing things and

00:35:36.800 our way of doing things is the right way you know i.e like the ai being like well you wouldn't want them

00:35:41.680 not to believe in man-made global climate change right when you know if you actually look at the data

00:35:46.720 there is some reasons to doubt this and and the people who doubt it aren't like crazy or anything

00:35:51.520 this is something that i think we should genuinely be talking about but they they won't do that they're just

00:35:56.320 like these people are stupid savages don't listen to them but when you get into us versus them thinking

00:36:02.800 what's really happening is you're building a coalition because i'm saying us isn't just people

00:36:07.920 like me and with my views it's people who are opposed to the them and you are the them

00:36:18.000 because you're the one who has chosen like a great example is latin americans right like for latin

00:36:23.280 americans have us versus them thinking they would have all latin american community they'd be like

00:36:26.560 we're we're different we're different cultures we have different stereotypes about us i.e we're

00:36:31.760 different in many ways but we take pride in that and we work together against those who would

00:36:38.320 collectively disadvantage us because of this central reason right and and that creates us versus them so

00:36:47.200 i think that us versus them is actually almost sort of necessary to live a moral life and protect

00:36:51.920 yourself unless you just are lucky enough to be born into or have cowardly enough to have converted

00:36:57.680 into the dominant cultural group within a region

00:37:03.280 perhaps yeah yeah i don't know i i think though with the rise of ai as demographic collapse plays out

00:37:10.800 as we see dependency ratio cascades undermine governments and more centralized run societies more

00:37:18.800 centrally run societies we are going to see as we keep saying the rise of techno feudalism we're

00:37:25.360 going to see more balkanization of culture and communities and i think we're going to see more us versus them

00:37:32.720 mentality and what i hope that we'll see is us versus them mentality in the context of trade commerce

00:37:40.080 healthy rivalry competition exchange and you know learning from each other um instead of

00:37:47.840 this a form of balkanization that leads to raids and attempted annihilation and genocide

00:37:55.520 so i think this is a really important subject and i think people should be thinking strategically about how

00:38:00.800 how they with their community or their culture or their religion contextualize and work with others

00:38:08.000 you can look at how i mean jews that have been victimized for so long nevertheless work do commerce with

00:38:16.320 other cultures i mean they're very strategic about how they i guess exchange with the larger world

00:38:22.080 and how they like where they lean in with just their own communities but i think these are things that

00:38:27.920 people should be thinking about and there's definitely a way to do this right and those there's a way to

00:38:31.520 do this really to your detriment to the world's detriment to humanity's detriment well i love you

00:38:39.600 to death simone you're a very special lady do you have any final thoughts on why we need to

00:38:45.760 i mean it's not just us versus them thinking which is good it's stereotypes which are good like

00:38:49.760 how you watch a show that celebrates the culture like i think a show that does a very

00:38:54.560 good job of celebrating colombian culture is what's that latest where that recent disney show oh is that

00:39:00.240 colombian culture colombian culture yeah it specifically takes place in colombia does oh so

00:39:05.840 you you watch the show right it's all stereotypes but stereotypes are good that's what we take pride in

00:39:14.160 you know i'm from the the the redneck like in puritan cultural groups a bunch of stereotypes

00:39:19.040 that's that's what cultural pride is it's having pride in the stereotypes about your people

00:39:24.720 yeah like i said like if you if you look at all the the comedic roastings of different groups that

00:39:29.600 they're performed by people of those groups and they're amazing culture attempts to eradicate

00:39:35.040 your ability to even see your group within stereotypes because remember they don't just hate the quote

00:39:40.080 unquote negative stereotypes they hate the positive ones too like asians being good at math they're

00:39:44.640 karate or something like that right like all of these you you can't have any of these and when

00:39:49.440 they do that what they're actually erasing is your ability to have pride in the ways that you are

00:39:55.040 different from other people true yeah the only thing that you can be proud of is the extent to which

00:39:59.440 you assimilate with a culture that is it is very artificial not when they remove all of those sources

00:40:06.240 of pride they then say so so you're like what i can't be proud of anything and it's like well you can

00:40:10.720 be proud of what you're attracted to what what gives you pleasure hedonism right like that works

00:40:15.600 and then you and then you get sucked into the culture right like it's a very effective strategy

00:40:19.920 they they shame any pride you have in your cultural stereotypes be they positive or negative

00:40:24.800 you know i and i and people know i take pride and boast within my culture i often talk about the

00:40:29.200 violent nature of the backwoods people you know scooping out sharpening their fingernails to scoop

00:40:33.920 out people's eyeballs right like they're they're they're there there's many i don't actually i don't think

00:40:39.120 any group today has a stereotype that negatively violent but and i'm and i'm like that's and cool

00:40:45.040 man but the point i'm making here i'm sure people will come up with ideas it's removing your ability

00:40:52.160 to have pride in yourself is what they're removing when they they remove stereotypes they don't say that

00:40:57.280 this is what they're doing but it's functioning what they're doing and no no grand conspirator came up

00:41:02.080 with this it's just the groups that adopted these beliefs had an easier time converting people into

00:41:06.800 it because they erased your ability to have pride in this and then they said but you can still have

00:41:12.080 pride in in in why right and we have a parade for you it's called the pride parade come on join it

00:41:21.040 oh wow

00:41:23.840 anyway i think a lot of these things will change

00:41:25.920 i'll make you potstickers for dinner you know i'd love potstickers tonight and unless you want pizza

00:41:33.200 because i'm doing an oven night everything else is going to be in the oven tonight pizza pizza pizza

00:41:37.760 you want karai on your pizza put on the top of it just surprise you with indian spices

00:41:44.400 yes and msg and of course msg i do not know how americans went so long making pizza without msg

00:41:52.800 what were they thinking well and with cutting it with that what is this pizza wheel nonsense when you

00:41:59.120 just can get a pair of scissors for the love for the love yeah i just your experience in korea

00:42:05.840 i feel like the most valuable thing that i've taken away from it personally

00:42:08.960 is the scissors i love the scissors for food cutting for food cutting yeah i know i know but

00:42:17.280 i love that yeah i saw that in korea brilliant yeah it changed everything all right i love you to

00:42:23.120 that's the mom your great wife a very very good wife um a good husband i honestly you're so good

00:42:29.520 i'm not even going to beat you today oh what a shame did we get did we get too close to saying that

00:42:37.200 somebody having pride in being white is okay in this episode

00:42:45.200 too close comment no we didn't say that by the way i i think it's horrible i think anyone who has

00:42:49.920 white pride is a horrible disgusting human being well i just think it's it's weird because

00:42:58.560 what is well no you should have pride in your specific group but understand that there might be a

00:43:03.280 larger alliance of groups that are being victimized for the same reason you're victimized

00:43:07.680 uh i mean when somebody denies me a job they're not doing it because i'm from the backwoods cultural

00:43:12.160 tradition from the puritan cultural tradition they're doing it because of the color of my skin

00:43:16.880 yeah okay okay yeah that's helping me to better understand this and the the whole latinx concept i mean like

00:43:28.000 look the catholics used to burn my ancestors at the stake right like we don't have a history of an

00:43:33.680 alliance but right now i mean yeah i think in general i may be wrong about this but probably

00:43:39.120 the vast majority of violence that has been subject to any particular ethnic or cultural group has been

00:43:44.080 from people within those groups the call is normally coming from inside the house so yeah the the intergroup

00:43:53.040 hate is widely covered but not the big source of the problem so all right love you to death

00:44:01.760 simone bye malcolm i'll call you when you're starting oh we're gonna do a mix of potstickers right

00:44:07.040 some veggies i thought we're doing pizza we can do pizza oh yeah pizza not potstickers get the pizza

00:44:12.400 yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna make a little bit of like sacrificial freezer mystery chicken as well

00:44:17.680 because i think you're just no no no no you're gonna want to throw it away well then should i just

00:44:22.640 feed it directly to the chickens without no no just what are you did you already defrost it

00:44:28.400 then do it tomorrow just you're not gonna want to eat it though anyway so i'm just like i don't want

00:44:33.520 you to over feed me i hate when you make dishes that are too big because you just want one quarter

00:44:38.160 of a pizza that's so little food i don't want that much food okay okay look simone if you if you are

00:44:45.280 going to do it then do it and do the rice and everything like that no i'm not gonna do the rice

00:44:49.440 no i was just gonna i'll save the chicken for another night i guess but i'll go with the pot

00:44:54.720 stickers yeah i'm imposing my pregnancy mindset on you i'm ravenous can i do a third of pizza instead

00:45:03.680 of a quarter oh you want more a third but not a quarter not not half half is too big okay yeah at

00:45:10.400 least then i don't feel like i'm well i'm also doing sourdough would you just like fresh sourdough

00:45:13.840 with jam instead of a third of a pizza this sourdough is oh yeah sourdough with jam is great

00:45:22.560 oh can you put cheese on top of it i would have to cut it and then toast it but i can totally do that

00:45:29.920 no no no no then just the pizza and the sourdough is jam if you maybe a bit more than a quarter but

00:45:35.920 not a full third and that's what i'm having tonight that was a sourdough sounds good great love you i love

00:45:42.560 you too sexy women with zebra face paint hanging in golden cages to figure out what to do

00:45:54.080 what create that makes sense fun we'll see i'm just yeah i i think i've watched the what does the fox

00:46:03.440 say with her children so many times that i just whenever they love this video then what does the

00:46:12.000 yeah you know what does the fox say that that's like their favorite song of all time that's why

00:46:17.600 they all want fox plushies that's why they all want to dress up like foxes that's why indies

00:46:23.040 words are naming naming naming naming that's where the fox plushie came from i should have known

00:46:28.640 well i mean the fox plushie came from from steven minka but they loved it because it's the fox

00:46:36.000 and what does the fox say what does well they know what the it is a great children's song now that i

00:46:41.040 think about it you know it's funny that it became popular as like a song for adults but like it's

00:46:44.560 more of a children's song oh i mean and indy loves it is she's like learning words because it's very

00:46:50.160 like i said like her she she'll just like randomly be like ning ning ning ning ning ning ning yeah she speaks

00:46:56.560 fox she can she can speak at fox she speaks human yeah but no really she's a pokemon because her

00:47:02.000 first actual real words are indy indy she points to herself indy she won't say mommy you are trying

00:47:12.560 to my mom sorry my wife tried to get her to understand who she is and so she'd point to indy

00:47:19.600 and she go indy mommy daddy she can get indy and no one else yeah it's not mommy or daddy first

00:47:28.320 actually that's kind of wild because like mama and dad are supposed to be like easy words for kids

00:47:32.160 to say yeah no first no very clearly her first word is her own name and she knows exactly what

00:47:39.440 she's talking about there's no ambiguity she'll never say pointing at anything but herself it's

00:47:45.760 amazing oh oh i like that that's the same kid i want to raise come on cried man yeah people like

00:47:55.040 how could you name your daughter industry whenever i i post a some like instagram photo that has her in

00:48:01.440 it or something and i mentioned you named your child industry she seems pretty happy about it

00:48:08.320 people yeah she seems she seems to dig it all of our kids like their names to be honest because i

00:48:13.120 asked them i'm like you would you want another name and they're like no this is no yeah next one

00:48:19.520 get a good old-fashioned american name it's good all right

00:48:26.320 great

Based Camp - September 04, 2025

Why is ＂Us Vs. Them Thinking＂ Villainized？ (When A ＂Them＂ Really Exists)

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