Based Camp - Why Libertarian's, Despite Being the Worst, Are Usually Right

00:00:00.000 Most conservatives I know go through a change where when they're younger, they identify as libertarians.

00:00:06.080 And as they get older, they identify as Republicans.

00:00:09.800 Why does this happen?

00:00:11.140 Would you like to know more?

00:00:12.420 I am excited for this episode.

00:00:14.200 So I just got back from New Hampshire where I was speaking at a libertarian convention.

00:00:19.120 And I had an absolute blast doing it.

00:00:20.960 Really great community.

00:00:22.600 And one of the things we're going to loop back to later in this conversation is the different types of conservatives and the different ways that they interact.

00:00:31.300 We got to meet with a conservative group in the UK where we were at a convention.

00:00:34.460 Then we spoke with the convention in New Hampshire.

00:00:36.160 Then we spoke with a general conservative like uncanceled sort of event in Vegas the weekend before.

00:00:42.160 And then recently, you know, we spoke at the oh, yeah, you've been talking to a lot of like conservative voters and stuff like that.

00:00:48.600 Oh, yeah.

00:00:49.100 Yeah.

00:00:49.320 Just like door knocking on Republicans' houses.

00:00:51.340 So we've gotten this really broad and unique exposure.

00:00:55.220 And then we've got the Pronatalist Convention.

00:00:56.860 And then we've got like the broadly EA conservatives and stuff like that, which is just they're nothing like each other.

00:01:02.520 They see the world nothing like each other.

00:01:04.720 And being at this libertarian event, a few things happened that made me really reflect on this.

00:01:10.040 One, somebody said, and this is a regular watcher of our show, you know, like an interactive fan.

00:01:17.140 Oh, I had no idea that you guys would consider your policies libertarian or you think that they would pass as like libertarian within libertarian groups.

00:01:27.240 And this is going to be like, huh, I hadn't realized that we came off as so anti-libertarian on this.

00:01:33.940 But then I also started to think about everyone I knew who was conservative when they were younger.

00:01:39.140 And there's this consistent phenomenon within conservative circles where, as we've discussed in the episode of like, do your politics actually change?

00:01:45.760 No, for most people, their politics are stable throughout their life, whether it's conservative or progressive, at least.

00:01:52.420 But most conservatives I know go through a change where when they're younger, they identify as libertarians.

00:01:58.600 And as they get older, they identify as Republicans.

00:02:02.640 If they have sense.

00:02:03.700 So one answer is, is why does this happen?

00:02:06.400 Right.

00:02:06.780 And then the other answer is, I actually think that a lot of like broadly, I think most, you know, like intelligent, engaged conservatives, if you were going to ask them like what policy positions they actually want, the policy positions they're often going to describe are going to sound very libertarian in nature.

00:02:24.440 And that leads us to the episode's title question, which is, why are libertarians the worst and yet right about so many things, if not almost everything from a political standpoint?

00:02:42.060 And I think that, and I'll just sort of start this, I think that part of the answer comes from the guy who said, wait, you guys are, would consider yourselves as having libertarian leanings?

00:02:54.800 And I was like, yes, in what way do you think we aren't libertarians?

00:02:59.320 And he's like, well, I thought, you know, you would just, you know, promote the policies that promote a, you know, pronatalist, diverse breeding population agenda.

00:03:07.360 Right.

00:03:07.660 And it's like, yeah, that is one of our main goals, you know, economic prosperity from a political perspective is also one of our main goals.

00:03:17.320 And we are libertarian because we think that generally libertarian solutions, when we look at the data, support, like, like end up solving these issues, whether it is fertility.

00:03:29.540 Basically, libertarianism is the most pronatalist political school of thought out there.

00:03:35.220 Yes, when you look at the data, like, like, which means just like leave people alone.

00:03:40.340 Stop telling them how to live their lives.

00:03:42.500 Don't tell them all to be progressive.

00:03:44.040 Don't tell them all to be conservative.

00:03:46.940 Yeah, just let them live their lives, please.

00:03:49.940 And one of the things that I showed recently in an Aporia piece is graph.

00:03:54.120 If you look at things like abortion restrictions, right, and how strict a European country is on abortion,

00:03:59.220 has almost a direct correlation with how low their fertility rate is.

00:04:03.260 So trying to, in the same way you cannot pay people to have kids, you cannot force them to have kids through government restrictions yet.

00:04:10.600 We haven't found somebody who's found the solution yet, but there may be more draconian measures that some countries, I'm thinking China here, may figure out.

00:04:17.800 Like forced insemination and stuff like that.

00:04:19.900 But generally, and so, yes, libertarianism works in this area, but also like our economic beliefs are mostly libertarian-ish, ish, because we call ourselves bull movers with Republicans.

00:04:31.200 We think all large bureaucracies lead to inefficiency, whether that is a government or a company.

00:04:38.940 Like, so we believe in trust busting, like Teddy Roosevelt did a lot.

00:04:42.260 You know, he's a Republican who did a lot of trust busting, which is what we liked about him.

00:04:45.740 So we have, you know, unique, but mostly libertarian.

00:04:49.460 It means that most of our policy positions are going to be libertarian.

00:04:52.140 And what I realized is to the people who still identify as libertarians when they are adults,

00:05:01.440 being a libertarian or supporting libertarian positions just because they are the most effective position doesn't make you a libertarian.

00:05:09.880 It isn't good enough.

00:05:10.840 You need to support libertarian positions even when it functionally doesn't work.

00:05:17.520 Heck, I'd be a communist if it worked.

00:05:19.840 Like, if AI somehow makes, like, broadly, like, cash handouts work.

00:05:25.440 Like, if in an AI world, like, UBI starts working and we enter some communist-like system that creates the most prosperity and freedom within a society,

00:05:37.180 I'd be like, yeah, sure, that's great.

00:05:39.900 I was wrong about everything that I thought politically.

00:05:42.920 But for us, politics isn't about ideology.

00:05:46.260 It's about the end states that it creates.

00:05:48.900 Whereas to the people who identify as libertarian as adults, many of them, that's not it.

00:05:53.460 Their politics is literally about the ideology.

00:05:57.400 So I want to hear your thoughts on this question.

00:05:59.660 Why do conservatives stop being libertarians as they grow older?

00:06:03.440 And why does the libertarian political sphere have this, like, intense ideological stance?

00:06:10.720 Right.

00:06:11.040 So I think it's because pragmatic political actors, be they voters or politicians,

00:06:17.320 realize really quickly that if they actually want to make an impact and do so within the government system,

00:06:24.020 you cannot be a libertarian.

00:06:26.480 Like, it's just, it's really hard to get elected.

00:06:29.760 It's really hard to get on the ballot and to get attention and to get votes and to actually get into office.

00:06:35.360 And I know this, too, because at one point I was trying to create a sizable list of elected libertarian politicians

00:06:42.700 to do outreach to them to invite them to a private event.

00:06:45.460 And they were like 10, 15.

00:06:48.780 Like, it's just such a small community because it doesn't work.

00:06:52.820 It doesn't work to change the political system as a libertarian if you are trying to do so through government.

00:06:59.900 And then, of course, as a voter, if you want to be able to affect change,

00:07:03.640 not being able to support people in primaries is a really big problem,

00:07:06.720 which in many states you have to be a member of the party to vote in a primary for a candidate.

00:07:13.760 So you can't, as a Republican, vote in the Democratic primary and vice versa. 0.87

00:07:18.320 So in other words, the reason why the Libertarian Party ends up sucking so much,

00:07:23.460 even though it has most of its ideas right, is that individuals with libertarian values

00:07:30.320 who are pragmatic in how those values are going to be implemented end up becoming Republicans,

00:07:35.940 which leaves the individuals who state Libertarian Party members throughout their entire lives

00:07:41.640 to be exclusively the people with libertarian-like beliefs,

00:07:45.800 but who held those beliefs for non-pragmatic reasons, 0.99

00:07:49.160 which makes the party increasingly stupid over time. 0.97

00:07:52.720 I'm going to word what you're saying in a little different way. 0.99

00:07:55.540 You think their political beliefs don't change as they age.

00:07:59.200 Their political opinions don't change as they age.

00:08:01.260 Yeah, they just become pragmatic.

00:08:02.380 They just understand.

00:08:04.120 As Republican.

00:08:04.960 And then my question for you is, so do you think a big chunk of the Republican base

00:08:08.800 is actually Libertarian in their political leanings?

00:08:12.720 Yes.

00:08:13.460 No, definitely.

00:08:14.220 Door-knocking, a lot of people, first, a lot of Republicans said,

00:08:20.200 I'm deregistering as a Republican.

00:08:23.140 I'm becoming a Libertarian.

00:08:24.260 Or they would say, oh, actually, I'm already, I'm a Libertarian.

00:08:27.480 Just because at this point, they're so angry at the Republican Party

00:08:29.880 that they don't even care about changing it.

00:08:31.960 They're just like, I just want to hurt it.

00:08:33.840 And they definitely held very Libertarian views.

00:08:39.700 The things that I said that resonated the most with them were Libertarian ideologies.

00:08:43.980 And I, as a candidate, am very, very, like, on the Liberty front.

00:08:47.360 Like, there was one political quiz I took that put me on a graph of, like,

00:08:51.620 you know, globalist or hands-on or hands-off or national.

00:08:54.840 Can you send me this picture?

00:08:56.560 Yeah, I need to find it so you can include it.

00:08:58.560 But so, like, yeah, right now, especially now,

00:09:02.640 those who are interested in Republican causes

00:09:06.640 are trying to defend their cultural sovereignty.

00:09:10.220 And they're all forms of sovereignty.

00:09:12.800 Just basically don't tell me how to start my business, run my business,

00:09:16.080 live my life, report this, report that, just get off me.

00:09:19.700 And that, more than anything else, is really taking over.

00:09:23.140 I think the Republican Party is shooting itself in the foot, frankly,

00:09:26.360 by moving away from Libertarian policies,

00:09:28.560 especially when it comes to, quote-unquote, book bans,

00:09:31.340 which aren't really book bans, but are being used as a political tool

00:09:35.120 and framed as book bans.

00:09:36.920 And with their whole religious bent on abortions as a big issue thing,

00:09:45.220 which is very not Libertarian, right?

00:09:47.220 Because that's more about a coercive...

00:09:49.060 It's super losing in the school system.

00:09:50.860 It is.

00:09:51.240 Like, this is a really interesting thing.

00:09:53.200 So they'll take these approaches, like,

00:09:54.480 we're going to ban all these sexuality books and stuff like that

00:09:57.120 that are entering our public schools.

00:09:59.120 And it makes them look like the bad guy

00:10:01.220 when what they really need to be fighting for

00:10:02.820 is educational freedom to take their kids out of the public schools.

00:10:06.440 If you get those books out of the public school library,

00:10:09.560 do you think your purple-haired teachers

00:10:11.380 aren't going to be showing it on slideshows?

00:10:14.440 Like, think about it.

00:10:15.900 Think about it.

00:10:16.560 You have achieved nothing

00:10:17.820 except making yourself look like the villain.

00:10:20.760 Now, the left out there banning Dr. Seuss,

00:10:24.200 holding book burnings of Anne Frank's diary.

00:10:27.720 Like, they look like the bad guys

00:10:29.960 if it wasn't just...

00:10:31.340 They could then say,

00:10:31.940 well, the right bans books too sometimes now.

00:10:33.900 There is no reason for the right to ever ban books.

00:10:37.000 Right.

00:10:37.380 No matter how sexualized the stuff in public school libraries is,

00:10:40.920 your kids shouldn't be in those schools.

00:10:43.220 And if it's in the library,

00:10:45.960 that means it's in the classrooms.

00:10:48.680 And you have achieved nothing but a symbolic victory

00:10:52.040 by getting it out of the library

00:10:53.520 while making yourself look like the bad guy.

00:10:56.040 And this is what we mean when we say

00:10:57.780 the libertarian position is always the most effective

00:11:01.740 whatever goal you are fighting.

00:11:04.520 It's always the most effective if you're actually right.

00:11:08.360 That's what I would say.

00:11:09.400 If you believe a bunch of things about reality

00:11:11.960 that just are not true,

00:11:13.560 then yes, you need to shield people

00:11:16.260 and your children from information

00:11:17.800 to win these ideological battles.

00:11:19.940 If what you believe is true and most effective,

00:11:22.940 you know, in terms of corporate structures, for example,

00:11:25.520 you know, if it turns out

00:11:26.880 that DEI actually does hinder a company's operation,

00:11:31.000 eventually the non-DEI companies will all compete them

00:11:33.780 or shareholders will see this.

00:11:35.740 Exactly.

00:11:36.060 And it may take a while.

00:11:37.540 It may be a big cultural fight,

00:11:40.140 but eventually that's how you get these systems out.

00:11:44.180 If you take an approach like attempting to ban

00:11:46.360 certain ideas and stuff like that,

00:11:48.200 you just make them appealing to dissenters,

00:11:50.480 which is the key way that I think progressivism

00:11:53.080 really got off initially within college campuses

00:11:56.420 and stuff like that,

00:11:57.880 is it was seen as a dissident cultural group.

00:12:02.000 And conservatism being the dissident cultural group now

00:12:04.260 gives it this little push.

00:12:06.120 But if the long-term goal of that dissident cultural group

00:12:08.980 is to do things like, you know,

00:12:10.260 ban pornography and stuff like that,

00:12:12.080 it's not going to attract the young dissidents anymore

00:12:14.980 who are not at the same level.

00:12:17.180 So I think that's interesting.

00:12:18.280 And I think that you're onto something with this intuition

00:12:20.240 that people aren't really changing

00:12:22.260 their political beliefs that much,

00:12:24.200 that they actually do still stay libertarian at heart,

00:12:27.860 a lot of the conservative base.

00:12:29.660 Now, this leads me to another interesting thing

00:12:31.300 is we know a lot of conservative politicians.

00:12:33.980 And I'd say that many, or actually most,

00:12:37.580 almost all the ones we know,

00:12:39.440 in their personal beliefs are actually very libertarian,

00:12:42.400 but in the way they vote in office,

00:12:44.760 don't vote libertarian.

00:12:45.920 They vote like classic Republicans.

00:12:47.280 I think that the bigger point too is,

00:12:48.880 as a politician,

00:12:49.560 you kind of have your hands tied quite often.

00:12:51.900 Well, no, I don't think that's it.

00:12:53.500 I think that there's a perception

00:12:54.780 among the conservative elite,

00:12:56.980 like the GOP Inc.

00:12:57.920 that owns the GOP party or the old party,

00:13:01.160 that the theocratic faction of the GOP

00:13:04.040 is actually much more powerful than they really are

00:13:06.900 in terms of imposing cultural values

00:13:09.100 using government systems.

00:13:10.260 And it has led to some massive miscalculations

00:13:14.060 on their part,

00:13:15.360 like the huge backlash that they had

00:13:17.500 after the Roe versus Wade overturn

00:13:19.460 and stuff like that.

00:13:21.120 Gosh, yeah.

00:13:21.600 There is just not as much support

00:13:24.680 for their beliefs as they think.

00:13:26.340 And that that might be true,

00:13:27.600 like that there just isn't,

00:13:29.380 that there's a perception

00:13:30.500 in the same way that we talk about

00:13:31.840 in that one video of there's a perception

00:13:34.020 of a meaningful racist Republican base.

00:13:37.080 When if you look at 538 polling,

00:13:39.080 Nate Silver, mainstream demographer and polar,

00:13:41.920 this guy showed that until Obama was elected,

00:13:45.740 more white Democrats and white Republicans

00:13:47.240 wouldn't vote for a black president. 0.56

00:13:48.700 And even up until today, 0.83

00:13:49.960 where Republicans do show slightly more racist views

00:13:52.120 on some things, it's small.

00:13:53.320 It's a difference of like two to 3%

00:13:54.780 when contrasted with Democrats.

00:13:56.820 There just is not a significant Republican racist base,

00:14:00.860 despite the media portraying it as such.

00:14:02.600 And I think that this is also true

00:14:04.120 potentially with the theocratic base.

00:14:07.820 And this creates this boogeyman

00:14:10.500 that leads Republicans to act much less libertarian

00:14:13.180 in their voting pattern

00:14:14.620 than they otherwise would be

00:14:16.460 if they were responding to their base.

00:14:17.840 Just to make sure I have this right,

00:14:19.800 you're saying it's they have a misunderstanding

00:14:22.200 of what the Republican Party

00:14:26.520 actually is comprised of.

00:14:28.680 This could be it,

00:14:30.240 or it could be that our district

00:14:32.040 is just much more libertarian

00:14:33.440 in terms of going out there and talking to people.

00:14:35.980 Although we've been to a number

00:14:37.220 of conservative conferences

00:14:38.480 and the only one that was distinctly non-libertarian

00:14:41.080 was the one in the UK.

00:14:43.280 Yes.

00:14:44.140 Yeah, yeah.

00:14:44.840 Well, okay, so I will say one thing

00:14:46.580 about the religious people

00:14:47.680 that I've spoken with in our district

00:14:49.380 when door knocking,

00:14:51.040 who do really care about abortion as an issue.

00:14:54.080 No one shut their door in my face about abortion

00:14:57.140 when, you know, they would ask me like,

00:14:58.880 well, what's your stance on abortion?

00:15:00.460 And I say that it's up to each group.

00:15:02.580 So if you're Catholic, that's great,

00:15:04.520 but you can't impose Catholic views on abortion

00:15:06.800 on other people.

00:15:07.720 You have to care for your own essentially.

00:15:10.260 But they would slam the doors in my face 0.98

00:15:12.480 if I said that I didn't think Trump was a complete douche 0.99

00:15:15.400 and that I thought, you know, I should destroy him. 0.98

00:15:18.940 So there's that.

00:15:21.340 I think this is a level of kindness.

00:15:22.940 I think that, you know,

00:15:23.780 you get more kindness from cultural conservatives

00:15:26.340 than non-cultural conservatives.

00:15:27.360 Oh, okay, that's fair.

00:15:29.060 And I'll post a food graph here

00:15:30.240 where there was a great thing,

00:15:31.820 and we'll go over this in another video,

00:15:34.100 where they asked countries, you know,

00:15:36.260 is food a human right?

00:15:37.380 And like the only country that said no

00:15:39.460 with the United States,

00:15:40.560 and then they superimpose a graph

00:15:42.400 of how much money various countries give to foreign aid.

00:15:45.360 And the United States gives overwhelmingly more

00:15:47.660 on a per GDP basis.

00:15:49.680 And we'll go into this deeper on another video.

00:15:51.760 The United States gives about double

00:15:54.860 the next highest nonprofit donation country,

00:15:59.920 which is New Zealand.

00:16:01.160 This is on a per GDP basis.

00:16:02.960 To give you an idea of like,

00:16:03.900 when you're talking about more communist countries

00:16:05.760 like China, not as like communist capitalists,

00:16:08.260 but whatever, like different mindset.

00:16:10.120 For every dollar that Americans,

00:16:12.080 and this is on a per GDPs,

00:16:13.260 you can't say those are poorer,

00:16:15.240 for every dollar cost adjusted

00:16:16.840 that Americans give to charity,

00:16:18.680 people in China give two cents.

00:16:20.700 So yeah, no, Americans are overwhelmingly,

00:16:23.860 and I think that this is this conservative mindset,

00:16:26.500 overwhelmingly more generous than other groups.

00:16:28.920 And conservatives are generally,

00:16:30.300 they give to charities at much higher rates.

00:16:31.900 Yes, yeah, yeah.

00:16:32.740 I've seen those stats for sure.

00:16:33.960 And I think that this might be what you're saying

00:16:36.100 is when they disagree with you

00:16:37.000 for a conservative reason

00:16:38.000 versus for a progressive-y reason,

00:16:40.000 even if they are a conservative.

00:16:41.440 So they're just ruder and they're more like-

00:16:44.460 I had not thought about that.

00:16:46.220 But I take another stance here,

00:16:49.740 which is it could be that the theocratic groups

00:16:52.560 that are interested in imposing their cultural values

00:16:55.680 through governing systems,

00:16:57.020 and those cultural values aren't progressive,

00:16:58.640 but theological in nature,

00:17:00.480 that these groups are much more likely to vote.

00:17:02.680 That might be it as well.

00:17:04.460 Like, they're easier to capture as a voting bloc.

00:17:06.800 Yeah, but here's where I think also

00:17:09.060 there's a misunderstanding,

00:17:12.580 is I'm under the impression

00:17:14.860 that the Republican Party did start to turn against abortion

00:17:18.180 when they didn't really care before

00:17:20.460 to court these religious voters,

00:17:22.540 and those religious voters are active.

00:17:24.160 I don't think it was the goal of the religious voters 0.99

00:17:27.360 necessarily to impose their theocratic views on everyone else.

00:17:35.340 Maybe I'm wrong here.

00:17:36.240 The abortion issue is a very weird one.

00:17:38.260 So for people who don't know,

00:17:39.580 in the 1970s,

00:17:40.720 the Republican Party was more pro-life

00:17:42.680 than the Democratic Party,

00:17:43.900 because of course,

00:17:44.480 a small government,

00:17:45.360 you know, get the government out of my life,

00:17:46.800 it's consistent with Republican values.

00:17:48.400 They wanted to capture the Catholic vote,

00:17:50.040 which was mostly, you know,

00:17:51.500 recent immigrants,

00:17:52.520 the Irish,

00:17:53.340 which at that time were not seen.

00:17:54.840 I mean, they've been here for a few generations,

00:17:56.180 similar to like Hispanic immigrants today or something, 0.71

00:17:58.360 and they're like,

00:17:58.740 let's see if we can capture them.

00:17:59.980 The same way Simone and I always talk about

00:18:01.280 capturing the Hispanic vote 0.75

00:18:02.220 for the Republican Party,

00:18:03.080 which is underway.

00:18:04.780 I think there's some big changes you can make.

00:18:06.260 But anyway,

00:18:06.900 so they took this anti-abortion stance

00:18:09.040 to capture the Catholic vote.

00:18:10.500 It worked,

00:18:11.960 but an anti-abortion stance

00:18:13.740 was never an evangelical Christian position

00:18:15.940 up until this point.

00:18:17.100 This was not,

00:18:19.640 this is not an evangelical theology.

00:18:21.500 This is not like

00:18:22.600 a mainstream evangelical position at all.

00:18:24.620 And we pointed out in another video,

00:18:26.000 it's not a historic Catholic position either.

00:18:28.000 You look at someone like Thomas Aquinas

00:18:29.300 or Augustine of Hippo,

00:18:30.560 you know,

00:18:30.760 they saw that life began 30 days

00:18:32.420 after the fetus started developing.

00:18:34.620 Well, 30 to 40,

00:18:35.600 depending on gender,

00:18:36.460 long story here.

00:18:37.540 The point being is it is weird now

00:18:40.260 that some evangelicals,

00:18:43.520 despite having no cultural reason to do so,

00:18:47.100 have taken abortion as like a,

00:18:50.320 like this is my line in the stand issue,

00:18:52.720 when they're really doing it

00:18:54.500 from almost a fronting position,

00:18:56.040 because it's not a historic,

00:18:57.420 but like this isn't even like,

00:18:59.060 they're like two generations ago,

00:19:01.320 this wouldn't have been a position

00:19:03.100 their ancestors would have had.

00:19:04.600 Like it's weird.

00:19:05.900 It's like something that has changed

00:19:07.600 within the last 30 years.

00:19:09.020 It's weird.

00:19:10.140 But it shows that for a lot of this,

00:19:11.740 it's not about theological concerns.

00:19:13.660 It's people who want to be seen

00:19:15.400 as culturally aligning with a community

00:19:17.820 and they want the community

00:19:19.400 they believe they culturally align with

00:19:21.300 to control social values.

00:19:23.320 And they want to use the government

00:19:24.620 as a tool to achieve that.

00:19:26.560 But I mean,

00:19:27.080 unfortunately or unfortunately,

00:19:28.320 however you want to see it,

00:19:29.280 that mindset's going to die out pretty soon

00:19:31.440 because these groups are so on the back foot

00:19:34.260 in terms of voting capabilities.

00:19:36.600 And the Republican Party

00:19:37.800 has got much more of a diverse alliance.

00:19:39.260 But the final thing I wanted to really talk about here

00:19:41.920 was the different conservative conferences

00:19:43.400 we've been at recently

00:19:44.320 and different ways

00:19:46.280 that people have reflected conservative values

00:19:49.940 at these conferences,

00:19:50.660 which has been very, very interesting to me.

00:19:54.200 Yeah.

00:19:54.380 And I think it's really helped us solidify

00:19:56.220 the different types of conservative

00:19:58.760 in like Europe,

00:20:01.120 but and sort of globally

00:20:02.400 and then in the US.

00:20:03.400 And I feel like the US is so,

00:20:04.740 it's like the US politically to me

00:20:08.980 feels like the Japanese street fashion of politics

00:20:11.900 and that you've got these very cutting edge,

00:20:15.760 high fashion, avant-garde political movements.

00:20:18.620 And there are a bunch in Europe as well,

00:20:21.260 but they're just not as flamboyant.

00:20:23.660 They are not, you know,

00:20:25.680 they're not dressing like gothicle leaders, 0.84

00:20:28.000 you know what I mean?

00:20:28.460 Which was this like private, you know,

00:20:30.760 Jordan Peterson, Luis Perry event in the UK.

00:20:33.220 Which was filled with conservatives,

00:20:35.240 not just from the UK,

00:20:36.340 but throughout Europe and also Australia.

00:20:39.000 Yeah.

00:20:39.180 And they were very,

00:20:40.540 they had very bleak views of the future.

00:20:42.500 It was more just barely hold out

00:20:44.240 for their cultural value system.

00:20:45.800 It was more just curmudgeonly like,

00:20:48.100 well, it's all eroding,

00:20:49.400 like Western culture is just gonna disappear.

00:20:52.280 And that's really sad.

00:20:53.760 And can't you believe that,

00:20:55.940 you know, our society is so debauched now.

00:20:59.720 It was just whiny and it was resigned.

00:21:01.620 Yeah, very resigned.

00:21:03.440 And like mainstream talking points with them

00:21:05.700 with stuff like banning pornography,

00:21:08.460 banning IVF, you know,

00:21:10.840 a lot of honestly very nanny state stuff,

00:21:13.580 like ideas like banning kids access to the internet,

00:21:17.140 you know.

00:21:17.940 But also fighting existing nanny state stuff. 0.96

00:21:20.680 For example, in the UK,

00:21:23.000 like there are really stringent

00:21:24.620 babysitting qualification laws.

00:21:27.000 So you can't just like hire your neighbor

00:21:28.600 to watch your kid.

00:21:29.680 But conservatives put those in place.

00:21:32.260 I know, but like it just,

00:21:34.060 it just seems everything was oppressive.

00:21:35.640 Why they put them in place

00:21:36.540 is some kid killed another kid

00:21:37.980 in like a babysitting situation. 0.98

00:21:40.440 And so then they put these ridiculous policies

00:21:42.740 in place that basically make it totally cost prohibitive

00:21:45.140 to have childcare in the UK. 0.96

00:21:47.000 It is ridiculous. 0.96

00:21:48.220 It's, and so everything just feels oppressive. 0.97

00:21:50.840 It feels ossified.

00:21:52.640 And everyone's, they don't dream big either.

00:21:55.160 It's just like, well,

00:21:55.940 I hope we can make this tiny incremental change,

00:21:59.060 which is practical.

00:22:00.020 I mean, I have to admire the pragmatism there.

00:22:02.500 But then when we contrast that.

00:22:04.080 Well, hold on.

00:22:04.700 First, I want to say before we contrast it,

00:22:06.500 they were really afraid

00:22:07.900 of taking explicitly religious positions as well.

00:22:10.640 They would not say,

00:22:11.960 I believe X because of my religion,

00:22:13.700 because they were afraid of being called 0.96

00:22:15.420 like the crazy Christian, 1.00

00:22:16.620 which apparently is this thing 0.81

00:22:18.140 that BBC has built up as a trope

00:22:19.960 that everyone's afraid of identifying with.

00:22:22.220 Like, I do not know how the BBC still exists

00:22:25.060 as a government-funded entity.

00:22:26.260 That should not,

00:22:27.620 like, it's as insane as NPR existing in the US,

00:22:29.900 but it's like a bigger cultural player

00:22:31.480 because they demand a TV tax

00:22:34.040 from every household with a screen.

00:22:36.740 It's insane.

00:22:37.940 Anyway.

00:22:38.800 Yeah.

00:22:38.960 So let's go to the US one.

00:22:41.280 So in contrast.

00:22:43.400 In contrast in the US, it's,

00:22:45.980 well, there are these different schools of thought, right?

00:22:48.140 So you have these like libertarians

00:22:49.620 who are extremely ideological.

00:22:52.380 You told me about someone paying you

00:22:55.400 with a laminated piece of gold for something.

00:22:57.800 Yeah, but that was the libertarians.

00:22:59.460 So let's be clear.

00:23:00.280 The libertarians were very different

00:23:01.640 from the classic conservatives.

00:23:03.180 Oh, no, no, no.

00:23:03.640 The classic conservatives.

00:23:04.380 There's two groups of conservatives. 1.00

00:23:06.120 One I'd call the dumb conservatives 0.99

00:23:07.560 and the other I'd call the classic conservatives. 1.00

00:23:11.100 The dumb conservatives are the ones 1.00

00:23:12.460 that we're interacting with 1.00

00:23:13.560 in terms of like the local political,

00:23:15.800 like events and stuff like that,

00:23:18.400 where it's like the other people

00:23:20.180 who are running for office and stuff like that.

00:23:22.060 And they're just like,

00:23:23.680 you were like,

00:23:24.580 oh, you're talking to the other sentient person

00:23:26.700 who happened to be a local politician.

00:23:28.540 That's why you decided to follow up with him

00:23:30.100 because we had to follow up with one of them today.

00:23:31.620 And it was like, why did I choose this person?

00:23:33.780 I don't remember.

00:23:34.500 And you're like, well,

00:23:35.140 he seemed like one of the few sentient people

00:23:36.700 at the event.

00:23:37.500 So as much as we joke about like the left being NPCs,

00:23:40.940 you've got to understand local,

00:23:42.780 like HOA conservatives,

00:23:45.020 I guess I'd call them,

00:23:46.180 you know, local politics conservatives,

00:23:47.720 they're just as NPC.

00:23:49.000 Like they don't have strong opinions on anything.

00:23:51.640 When it comes to our worldview

00:23:55.180 and means of discussing things,

00:23:57.740 which is very high level,

00:24:00.600 I, you know,

00:24:01.120 you can say that these people

00:24:02.480 are highly respectable

00:24:03.360 from the perspective of them being people

00:24:05.940 who care about their local communities

00:24:07.340 and local issues and everything else.

00:24:08.940 Yeah, but then there's a conservative base

00:24:10.720 who's very different in the US.

00:24:12.160 So this is a group that we're meeting at conventions

00:24:14.020 and stuff like that.

00:24:15.300 Yes.

00:24:15.880 They are totally different from the UK group.

00:24:18.620 They, like every time you talk to one,

00:24:21.460 they are looping you into like

00:24:23.180 their private conspiracy theory

00:24:24.860 and their world belief.

00:24:26.760 Like that's often how they start conversations

00:24:28.620 is with some conspiracy theory.

00:24:30.900 And it's, it's, it's,

00:24:31.720 do you either know about this conspiracy theory?

00:24:34.020 And when I should say conspiracy theory,

00:24:35.400 most conspiracy theories recently

00:24:36.780 have turned out to be fact.

00:24:37.780 Like conspiracy theories are betting

00:24:39.800 like nine out of 10 recently.

00:24:41.380 So when I say conspiracy theory,

00:24:43.380 what I mean is it's some angle of viewing society,

00:24:47.100 which is non-mainstream accepted,

00:24:50.020 but I'm just using the term conspiracy theory

00:24:51.760 because that's what the left would call it.

00:24:53.000 But they, they come up to you very conspiratorially.

00:24:55.640 Like, Hey, like, are you in on like X?

00:24:59.780 And you either know about it

00:25:03.120 and they're like, oh my God,

00:25:04.100 we're immediately best friends

00:25:05.440 because you're like part of my tribe.

00:25:06.760 Or it's like, oh my God,

00:25:07.980 I need to like tell you about this

00:25:10.560 and like, look at the stats

00:25:11.900 and like, here are five papers

00:25:13.480 and they're really excited about this, right?

00:25:16.280 Well, and it feels extremely inclusive where like,

00:25:19.180 in contrast going to the conservative conference

00:25:23.600 in the UK with many people from around Europe

00:25:27.800 and in Australia,

00:25:28.560 it felt very much like exclusionary

00:25:32.680 that people were being very guarded.

00:25:34.400 They weren't trying to bring you in.

00:25:35.740 They didn't want you as a part of their community.

00:25:36.800 Well, they were all about trying to determine

00:25:37.580 your position in the local status hierarchy.

00:25:39.400 Yeah, but there was no like, come in, come in,

00:25:41.200 join my thing, like talk with me about my ideas.

00:25:43.380 And then at the other conservative conference

00:25:46.000 we just got back from in Vegas,

00:25:47.280 it was like, oh man, you need to know about this.

00:25:49.900 I've got to tell you, like you should,

00:25:51.840 and you can do this and you can do that

00:25:53.720 and I'll show you everything.

00:25:55.100 Don't worry.

00:25:55.560 And you felt like someone was trying to induct you

00:25:58.440 into their own little secret society

00:26:00.060 where they understood the truth about something

00:26:02.440 and they wanted you to know.

00:26:04.200 It's very interesting.

00:26:04.740 So there's like the classic joke about the hippies.

00:26:06.920 They did this in a South Park episode.

00:26:08.100 Like, I got some stuff you should read.

00:26:10.180 I've got some stuff you should read.

00:26:11.360 Where the hippies used to do this

00:26:13.380 and it was to assert dominance over you.

00:26:15.840 So this is something that ultra-progressives often do

00:26:18.060 is they will say, like, I have access to information

00:26:20.600 that you don't have access to

00:26:22.240 and that access to information makes me higher status

00:26:24.800 and that I recommend you go out and read that.

00:26:27.240 Like, I can't afford to teach you.

00:26:29.540 What is the classic like progressive line?

00:26:32.280 Like, I don't have time to teach you

00:26:33.840 or something like that.

00:26:34.520 Or like, it's not my responsibility to educate you.

00:26:36.800 Yeah, it's not my responsibility to educate you.

00:26:39.060 No, no, no, no.

00:26:40.220 Conservatives in the US, like the base,

00:26:41.960 they do not feel that way.

00:26:43.780 They are excited and privileged to educate you

00:26:47.360 and they cannot wait for you to dive into it,

00:26:50.220 which is really exciting and interesting

00:26:53.540 to see this level of vitality

00:26:55.120 in the base of the conservative party.

00:26:56.760 Vitality is a great word for it.

00:26:58.320 Yeah, it has like a huge level of vitality,

00:27:00.240 but it also can be a little off the rail.

00:27:02.240 You know, sometimes when people talk to me about this stuff,

00:27:04.660 I'm like, wow,

00:27:05.160 that's actually a really interesting take on reality.

00:27:07.540 The problem is, is not everyone is smart.

00:27:11.320 And so some of their takes on reality 0.99

00:27:13.080 are just like really dumb, actual conspiracy theories. 0.98

00:27:17.840 And, you know, I have to humor them 0.98

00:27:19.740 and like, they're obviously nice people

00:27:22.200 who want to include us,

00:27:23.620 but it shows that like, it's not all good

00:27:29.700 to have everybody in charge of coming up

00:27:32.800 with their own view of reality

00:27:35.260 and distrusting all of authority.

00:27:36.660 Like there's a reason why we trusted authority

00:27:39.060 to some extent to begin with

00:27:40.420 because not everyone is smart enough

00:27:42.540 to parse all the information themselves.

00:27:44.200 Who are the corporations?

00:27:46.220 The corporations run the entire world

00:27:48.380 and now they've fooled you into working for them.

00:27:51.040 Are you serious?

00:27:51.880 We never heard that.

00:27:52.940 The government is using its corporate ties

00:27:54.640 to make you sell magazines

00:27:55.660 so they can get rich. 1.00

00:27:57.260 Those dirty liars! 1.00

00:27:59.000 This is a really nice town you have here. 1.00

00:28:01.880 That's why the corporations

00:28:02.800 are trying to use you to take it down.

00:28:04.440 Just hang with us for a bit.

00:28:06.680 We'll fill you in on everything

00:28:07.920 you haven't been told.

00:28:09.440 But there's at least a level of enthusiasm

00:28:11.400 and I certainly wouldn't want to ban them

00:28:14.320 or, you know, shun them

00:28:16.180 for undertaking these opportunities themselves

00:28:19.020 and these challenges themselves.

00:28:22.260 And the pronatalist conservatives

00:28:24.020 were different from all of the others

00:28:25.400 at the pronatalist event.

00:28:26.820 They were like incredibly competent

00:28:29.660 and entrepreneurial

00:28:30.720 and like everything was really focused on results.

00:28:34.720 Like how do we,

00:28:36.020 like when people hear our channel,

00:28:37.460 one of the things they often feel like

00:28:38.520 is they're like, yeah,

00:28:39.400 you know, I watch a lot of conservative channels

00:28:41.280 on YouTube,

00:28:42.000 but they're mostly focused

00:28:42.800 on the problems in society.

00:28:44.180 They're not focused on like practical solutions.

00:28:46.660 At the pronatalist conference,

00:28:48.200 like everyone was practical solution.

00:28:50.160 It was very entrepreneur heavy

00:28:51.780 and like practical entrepreneur heavy,

00:28:53.820 like a bunch of biotech companies,

00:28:55.280 stuff like that.

00:28:56.280 So that was really interesting to see.

00:28:57.580 At the libertarian conference,

00:28:58.900 it was a completely different

00:29:00.100 than the conspiratorial,

00:29:01.740 which was actually really interesting.

00:29:04.260 The conspiratorial,

00:29:05.680 like mainstream Republican base

00:29:07.120 is very inclusive.

00:29:08.200 Like they want anyone

00:29:09.820 so long as you buy

00:29:11.100 whatever their pet conspiracy theories are.

00:29:13.420 The libertarians were like,

00:29:15.120 no, we all agree on libertarian philosophy

00:29:17.940 and you are in,

00:29:19.520 and it's like a big family

00:29:20.580 and they've got like community

00:29:22.140 and everything like that,

00:29:23.080 which is really cool.

00:29:24.400 If you agree with their larger libertarian overlay,

00:29:27.220 but there isn't a lot of room

00:29:30.600 for ideological diversity

00:29:32.080 was in that overlay

00:29:33.180 or your level of ideological diversity

00:29:36.500 would determine your status

00:29:37.840 was in that community.

00:29:38.800 And so far as you thought 0.98

00:29:39.500 any libertarian idea was dumb 0.97

00:29:41.760 or something like that, 0.96

00:29:42.780 which is really interesting.

00:29:45.780 Yeah.

00:29:46.260 What I think I enjoy the most,

00:29:53.560 of course,

00:29:54.260 and this is not any surprise,

00:29:56.380 is the pronatalist political groups

00:30:00.680 that aren't really,

00:30:04.080 they're not cohesive.

00:30:06.540 I wouldn't call them like any sizable group

00:30:08.840 within the United States.

00:30:11.820 I would say conspiracy theorists

00:30:14.040 falling broadly under the QAnon umbrella.

00:30:18.140 Like they're a real force to be reckoned with,

00:30:20.760 but sadly,

00:30:22.220 pronatalists are more of a niche thing.

00:30:24.580 But maybe they represent this growing

00:30:26.520 like cat girl conservatism faction

00:30:28.640 that you had alluded to earlier,

00:30:30.260 where it's just people

00:30:31.640 who are willing to take unpopular cultural stances.

00:30:35.620 Because I think a big problem

00:30:36.880 plaguing conservatism more broadly

00:30:39.840 is this high concern with conformity,

00:30:43.400 when really what conservatism is becoming

00:30:45.520 is the right to not conform.

00:30:48.840 Yeah.

00:30:49.700 And that's what I think we really stand for,

00:30:51.940 politically speaking,

00:30:52.720 is the right to not conform.

00:30:54.700 Which is exemplified by cat girl conservatism.

00:30:57.700 Yeah.

00:30:58.100 It's saying like,

00:30:59.180 oh, I like this weird thing

00:31:01.500 that you're going to judge me for,

00:31:03.320 but I'm not afraid to express that view.

00:31:05.500 And I'm still going to be more conservative

00:31:07.460 than your average bear.

00:31:09.460 I actually really like that term

00:31:11.200 for a cat girl conservatism

00:31:12.680 instead of bull moose conservatism.

00:31:15.140 Because it's just interested

00:31:16.560 in what's efficacious.

00:31:18.040 Yeah.

00:31:18.220 And it's interested in what the individual likes

00:31:20.240 and the way they want to express themselves.

00:31:22.000 Yeah.

00:31:22.660 Along with an element of unapologetic willingness

00:31:27.240 to hold one's stances and express them.

00:31:30.020 Yeah.

00:31:30.320 Which is crucial.

00:31:31.800 I love you, Simone.

00:31:32.700 This has been a spectacular time chatting with you.

00:31:36.380 And it's always remarkable

00:31:38.620 how much our political views overlap.

00:31:41.580 We've grown together.

00:31:42.980 We've grown together.

00:31:44.280 I like it.

00:31:44.900 A lot of couples don't, so.

00:31:46.460 I know.

00:31:47.240 It's scary.

00:31:48.060 All right.

00:31:48.700 I'm heading out.

00:31:49.480 I'm going to hit in recording.

00:31:50.380 Okay.

00:31:50.660 Bye.

00:31:51.120 Ciao, ciao, ciao.

00:31:51.780 Ciao, ciao.

00:31:52.400 Ciao, ciao.

00:31:53.560 Well, hold on.

00:31:54.840 I have to show you.

00:31:56.040 My new house slippers came

00:31:57.340 because the ones I've been wearing

00:31:58.420 for the past, you know, two years.

00:32:00.860 Now you have no audio at all.

00:32:02.320 All right.

00:32:04.020 How about now?

00:32:04.780 Now you do.

00:32:05.860 Yeah.

00:32:06.160 So, like, the new, like, you know,

00:32:07.360 the shoes I wear on the house

00:32:08.900 is my indoor house slippers.

00:32:10.440 Just, like, now they have holes in them.

00:32:11.860 They're totally falling apart from the inside.

00:32:13.740 So, I got these new ones.

00:32:15.420 And I'm really excited.

00:32:18.200 And they're going to be perfect.

00:32:21.380 They have little steel toes.

00:32:24.060 Isn't that great?

00:32:24.800 I love that.

00:32:26.240 That is great.

00:32:27.080 Wait, how are these house slippers?

00:32:28.940 You need to explain this to the audience.

00:32:30.260 We have toddlers.

00:32:31.580 I mean, like, anyone who thinks

00:32:32.740 that they can walk around the house barefoot,

00:32:34.700 if they have toddlers, like, cannot.

00:32:37.480 So, like, these are my indoor cream shoes.

00:32:38.800 You need something that can crush an infant's skull

00:32:40.180 if you accidentally step on it?

00:32:41.760 Is that the goal here?

00:32:43.300 The infants are stepping on me, Malcolm.

00:32:45.680 I have to defend myself.

00:32:47.520 I love your mix of, like,

00:32:50.200 fascist-looking supervillain outfit 0.72

00:32:52.360 and, like, medieval wife outfit. 0.99

00:32:55.280 This is, this has got to be somebody's thing.

00:32:59.100 Well, it's either fascist or feudal, right?

00:33:01.380 That's my fashion.

00:33:02.620 It has to start with the best.

00:33:03.300 My favorite tweet that we drafted today,

00:33:05.900 because we have this problem where everyone's like,

00:33:08.740 oh, they're just, like, breeding fetishists

00:33:11.020 or something like that.

00:33:11.720 Yeah, what on earth?

00:33:12.740 And the tweet, to sort of counter this, is 0.99

00:33:16.100 non-reproductive sex is a fetish.

00:33:21.180 And it is, actually, when you think about it. 0.72

00:33:23.420 I mean, you are using something

00:33:25.560 that's not really supposed to turn you on. 0.99

00:33:27.860 It's a form of masturbation 0.99

00:33:29.480 that just uses another person. 1.00

00:33:32.120 But outside of that, I mean,

00:33:33.440 the reason you get aroused by sex 0.54

00:33:35.800 is because it caused your ancestors

00:33:38.580 who did that to have kids. 0.63

00:33:40.260 Any way you hijack the system,

00:33:41.880 whether it's with your hand or with a condom,

00:33:43.940 it's hijacking the system.

00:33:46.060 I am so stoked for this.

00:33:48.540 Ooh, rubbery bottoms.

00:33:49.860 Life is good.

00:33:51.120 New Doc Marten house slippers.

00:33:53.300 Beautiful husband, home.

00:33:55.420 Life is amazing.

00:33:57.080 So can you explain for the audience

00:33:58.300 why you wear your shoes inside and outside?

00:34:01.440 Yes.

00:34:02.160 So for context,

00:34:03.600 I wear different shoes inside and outside

00:34:05.760 because we, like Malcolm says,

00:34:08.780 do technically live in an old farmhouse.

00:34:10.920 And going outside always involves

00:34:13.660 getting covered in dirt.

00:34:15.600 Or like, when I go outside,

00:34:17.040 I'm typically walking to our chicken coop

00:34:18.880 and mucking it out a little

00:34:21.180 and getting water and dust

00:34:23.520 and chicken poop all over me.

00:34:25.980 And so I need to be wearing wellies for that.

00:34:29.040 So outdoor shoes are for getting muddy

00:34:31.160 and dirty and covered in dust.

00:34:32.880 And then indoor shoes are for surviving

00:34:34.900 the trampling of our toddlers,

00:34:36.820 which is why you wear Doc Martens inside

00:34:38.900 and you wear wellies outside.

00:34:40.240 And that is the appropriate tradition.

00:34:41.860 And this is why everyone has their little rain boots

00:34:44.040 when they go outside.

00:34:45.020 You know, the thing is, 0.71

00:34:45.980 I actually think you're living a lesbian fantasy. 1.00

00:34:49.040 Oh, I guess the cottagecore nonsense. 0.99

00:34:51.360 And the cottagecore and the chickens.

00:34:53.300 Come on.

00:34:55.960 Okay.

00:34:56.400 So we got to get started here, Simone.

00:34:59.420 Simone.

Based Camp - April 25, 2024

Why Libertarian's, Despite Being the Worst, Are Usually Right

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