Based Camp - January 01, 2024


Why Pronatalists Should Support the D.I.N.K. Lifestyle


Episode Stats


Length

38 minutes

Words per minute

203.23247

Word count

7,771

Sentence count

570

Harmful content

Misogyny

3

sentences flagged

Toxicity

50

sentences flagged

Hate speech

31

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, we talk about the phenomenon of Dinks, and why they should not be allowed to have kids. We also talk about why Dinks are bad parents and why we should all be worried about them.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 We're dinks. We can go to Florida on a whim. 0.98
00:00:02.540 We're dinks. We're already planning our European vacation next year. 0.52
00:00:05.320 Dinks. We get a full eight hours of sleep and sometimes more.
00:00:08.520 We're dinks. We get desserts and appetizers at restaurants.
00:00:11.260 We're dinks.
00:00:11.720 The response that prenatalist communities or even just like broadly conservative people have to them is just totally wrong. 0.97
00:00:17.860 These are people who really, really, really, really should not be having kids.
00:00:20.880 We mean this both from a genetic reason, like as we've talked about, like a dink is obviously more likely to be narcissistic, less likely to want to give back to society, etc. 1.00
00:00:28.720 But in addition to that, they're not going to be good parents.
00:00:33.900 Would you like to know more?
00:00:35.400 I just hit record. So we're set. Let's make sure you're looking gorgeous.
00:00:39.820 I love it when you have a little flippy do on your forehead of hair.
00:00:43.740 It's just really.
00:00:45.180 I wanted to see.
00:00:47.000 So we will. I love my wife.
00:00:50.680 And I am excited to be here with you today because we are going to talk about a subject that I didn't really know about.
00:00:57.260 But apparently there was some meme around this because a bunch of people got mad at people on the Internet about this because people on the Internet love to get mad and judge other people. 0.87
00:01:05.260 But it is a phenomenon of dinks. 0.70
00:01:08.680 And is it dual income? 0.93
00:01:11.040 No kids.
00:01:11.780 No kids.
00:01:12.780 So these are couples.
00:01:14.520 No kids.
00:01:15.500 Yeah.
00:01:15.620 And I think a lot of people, they look at us, you know, the pronatalists, and they're like, oh, you're fighting the dinks, right? 1.00
00:01:21.820 And it's like, not really.
00:01:23.060 And we'll get to this.
00:01:24.440 Actually, so at the pronatalist conference, somebody came up, right?
00:01:27.560 And they were like, well, you guys, as pronatalists, you know, what are your views on and how are you going to fight the use of condoms?
00:01:38.620 You know, like, and other contraceptives, right?
00:01:41.120 Well, they also ask you this, like, on the spot in front of a large audience of people.
00:01:44.960 Yeah, yeah.
00:01:45.340 And I was like, I said something along the lines of, look, I do not want kids being born because they were born accidentally.
00:01:52.020 That is not a victory.
00:01:53.100 Seriously.
00:01:53.180 Or to people who don't want them.
00:01:54.660 Come on, guys.
00:01:55.540 How is that a good thing that we are basically forcing, you know, people who don't want kids to have children with people who they did not intend to have children with?
00:02:06.780 Talk about cruelty.
00:02:08.360 What to the kids?
00:02:09.340 You know, the kids don't choose this.
00:02:10.940 Like, come on.
00:02:12.680 Yeah. 0.91
00:02:12.940 And this is very much around dinks. 0.92
00:02:14.940 You know, if somebody doesn't want kids, like, that is not our job.
00:02:20.100 Well, and also, like, we don't want them to have kids. 0.51
00:02:22.700 Our job is to protect their right to not have kids because if we care about kids. 0.55
00:02:26.860 And protect kids from them.
00:02:28.060 Exactly.
00:02:28.940 Exactly.
00:02:29.680 Let's talk about dinks more broadly. 1.00
00:02:31.920 So we'll do the little video of the dinks here so you can see. 1.00
00:02:35.620 We're dinks. 0.92
00:02:36.140 We go to Trader Joe's and workout classes on the weekends. 1.00
00:02:38.600 We're dinks. 0.63
00:02:39.120 We get into snobby hobbies like skiing and golfing. 0.99
00:02:41.400 We're dinks. 0.82
00:02:41.960 We can go to Florida on a whim. 1.00
00:02:43.880 We're dinks. 0.52
00:02:44.380 We're already planning our European vacation next year. 0.97
00:02:46.660 Dinks.
00:02:47.000 We get a full eight hours of sleep and sometimes more. 0.99
00:02:49.780 We're dinks.
00:02:50.460 We get desserts and appetizers at restaurants. 0.99
00:02:52.440 We're dinks.
00:02:53.040 We can play with other kids and give them back. 0.99
00:02:55.740 We're dinks. 0.85
00:02:56.540 We still do it three times a week. 0.99
00:02:58.240 We're dinks. 0.93
00:02:58.800 We spend our discretionary income on $8 latte. 0.99
00:03:01.940 We're dinks.
00:03:02.720 We max out our 401ks, Roth IRAs, and HSAs. 0.99
00:03:05.900 We're dinks.
00:03:06.600 We don't use our kids or dog as an excuse to leave a party. 0.98
00:03:09.580 We just leave.
00:03:10.700 They do come off as a little inseparable.
00:03:12.600 Well, I mean, well, for context, like, dinks did start trending a lot recently because a lot of dinks are making TikTok videos specifically about it. 0.98
00:03:19.860 And this one couple doing a sort of back and forth of dink lifestyle amenities went viral, which led to a lot of discussion.
00:03:27.880 Our friend of the show, Edward Dutton, did a counter dink video that I'll put here and found randomly.
00:03:34.520 It just came up because, oh, his voice sounds familiar. 0.88
00:03:36.380 We're dinks. 0.99
00:03:37.560 We've been sucked into a death cult. 1.00
00:03:39.280 We're dinks. 0.98
00:03:39.920 We're putting our immediate hedonistic desires above our long-term genetic interests. 0.99
00:03:43.900 We're dinks. 0.58
00:03:44.560 We're part of a selection event, and we've been selected out. 0.99
00:03:47.900 We're dinks. 0.77
00:03:48.600 We're coping with the fact that we're going to be failures as organisms. 1.00
00:03:51.520 We're dinks. 0.94
00:03:52.260 When we're older, we're going to look back on our lives with a profound sense of regret. 1.00
00:03:55.360 We're dinks. 0.97
00:03:56.040 We're going to die cold, alone, and with no one in the world who loves us. 1.00
00:04:00.200 But no, no, no.
00:04:01.140 It makes perfect sense, right?
00:04:02.380 So these individuals, when you see what they're talking about, when you see why they're excited
00:04:09.880 to not have kids, you're going to repeatedly see a few through lines.
00:04:14.400 It's primarily because it allows them to engage with more consumerism.
00:04:19.200 That's a really big thing.
00:04:20.560 Like, they're like, I like being a consumer.
00:04:22.580 Like, in the dink video, they're like, we max out our Roth IRA, 401k, and HSA.
00:04:28.060 Well, we do too, by the way. 1.00
00:04:29.580 You idiot. 1.00
00:04:30.560 Of course, parents are more likely to need to do that because they need to save the money. 1.00
00:04:34.600 But yeah, whatever.
00:04:36.180 They're not just irresponsible.
00:04:37.300 They're much more excited in their consumerist behavior.
00:04:41.080 They are.
00:04:41.460 We can buy an $8 latte that we can go on random trips that we can.
00:04:46.780 That they order appetizers and desserts that we do too.
00:04:50.140 Who does that?
00:04:51.060 Who goes to a restaurant and orders three courses?
00:04:53.880 That's insane.
00:04:54.920 Well, we order appetizers because we just eat appetizers.
00:04:57.920 Yeah, we order appetizers to save money and save on calories.
00:05:02.780 Well, so there's that.
00:05:04.380 And then there's a lot of like, well, we get to have sex more often. 0.62
00:05:07.940 Yeah, we still have sex three times a week.
00:05:09.920 So many married couples we know have not sex three times a week, every single night.
00:05:16.520 If you care about that, kids aren't going to stop you from doing it.
00:05:20.520 Hold on, Simone.
00:05:22.200 I'm not saying, and I do not think it is helpful for us to say that married couples can have everything a dink can have. 0.99
00:05:28.700 True.
00:05:29.060 While, you know, you can look at individual things you're seeing and saying, that's not true of all married couples.
00:05:33.160 I think that that is, it is disingenuous to make the claim that married couples and dinks have access to the same amount of resources. 1.00
00:05:42.780 And that is really, really important is that they actually do have access to more resources.
00:05:49.800 What is more interesting to me, and I think what causes the backlash to them, is why do they want these additional resources?
00:05:59.680 What are they trading the continuation of our species and their culture and the improvement, like the intergenerational improvement of humanity?
00:06:09.000 This great game that every single one of their ancestors participated in and sacrificed for.
00:06:14.160 What they're pointing out when they talk about all the things that they can have because they're not parents, is they're pointing out what a sacrifice a parent is.
00:06:22.180 And what a sacrifice every individual who came before them so that they had the privilege to opt out of this system.
00:06:29.680 The sacrifices that that huge, great chain of individuals had to undergo for them to have the privilege to basically cash out now.
00:06:37.000 It is as selfish as the boomers who go out there and just take out tons of debt in the name of future generations. 0.99
00:06:47.300 They are cheating the system because they don't have to deal with the consequences personally.
00:06:52.700 Now, what is also true is the genetic precursors to their psychological proclivities that lead to this sort of narcissistic and selfish behavior are going to be bred out of the population.
00:07:07.320 So that's one, a good thing, right?
00:07:09.200 You know, so that's removing.
00:07:10.560 And the cultural groups that did a bad job of motivating them to, you know, intergenerationally stay in this system are also going to be bred out of the population.
00:07:19.800 And even if those groups are aggressively attempting to convert people intergenerationally, the groups they're converting from are going to get better at resisting them.
00:07:27.680 We're just not going to see that anymore.
00:07:28.920 You know, there's one study I saw recently that said something like 55% of Gen Z plans to not have kids.
00:07:34.100 55%.
00:07:34.540 Whoa.
00:07:36.080 And for a huge portion of them is environmental concerns.
00:07:38.920 So they have been so brainwashed by this environmental apocalypticism because every generation, every 20 years is an apocalyptic cult.
00:07:47.340 You know, their kids are going to not have kids, you know, if they had kids because of AI, right?
00:07:51.500 You know, you see this in the EA movement, which has just become this crazy, aggressive Luddite community. 0.99
00:07:57.160 The moment, the moment, you know, I always go back to the Douglas Adams quote of everything invented after you were 30 is like an abomination and must be destroyed.
00:08:04.880 The moment the leaders of the movement turn 30, all of a sudden, all new technological innovations are heresy and must be destroyed and a threat to the future of our species.
00:08:14.160 And these young people really believe this sort of nonsensical panic who sometimes, you know, come into the movement now because they don't know that, you know, just old people who time has left behind yelling at the sky.
00:08:27.080 You wouldn't understand, Dad.
00:08:28.580 You're not with it.
00:08:30.140 I used to be with it.
00:08:31.660 But then they changed what it was.
00:08:33.840 Now what I'm with isn't it.
00:08:35.800 And what's it seems weird and scary to me.
00:08:38.960 It'll happen to you.
00:08:40.800 Oh, but where are they going with this?
00:08:43.440 Yeah.
00:08:43.580 So so these concerns, this sort of susceptibility to this form of apocalypticism, like environmentalist apocalypticism is hopefully going to be brought out of our species.
00:08:51.640 Now, this will lead to more environmental catastrophes in the future.
00:08:54.340 But I mean, humans have had a great, great job and done a great job at creating environmental catastrophes over and over and over again.
00:09:03.160 You know, you look at like when the environmental protection act went into place, it went into place because lakes used to regularly catch fire in some areas.
00:09:09.980 Oh, boy.
00:09:11.060 I forgot about that.
00:09:12.420 Or the London smog.
00:09:14.020 Like people apparently it's worse than like Bangkok today.
00:09:16.680 You could barely like if you walked into London.
00:09:18.500 People would just die.
00:09:19.280 Like haul all around you.
00:09:21.040 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:09:21.500 If you go historically, right, people are like, yeah, but that's just like industrialization problems.
00:09:27.400 If we go back to like Native Americans, like working off the land, I'm like, oh, where did all the megafauna in America go? 1.00
00:09:34.300 Where did the giant sloth go?
00:09:35.920 No, no, when they came to this country, they systemically exterminated hundreds of species, just completely changed the ecological landscape, caused huge ecological disasters.
00:09:47.800 Because humans always do this.
00:09:49.500 It's what we do.
00:09:50.240 Okay.
00:09:50.900 Yeah.
00:09:51.460 Well, it's very natural.
00:09:53.100 That's the problem.
00:09:54.640 We had reached this one iteration of our species and thought it might go in the opposite direction.
00:09:59.060 But the moment, you know, that then also became a sterilizing memetic context, like, you know, they then disappear.
00:10:06.600 So you have these dinks and people are like, well, do you hold animosity to them?
00:10:09.780 And it's like, no, I mean, really, I think I hold a level of pity for them. 0.90
00:10:14.080 Because a lot of these people, you know, when I look at these women who are spending, you know, 300K or whatever on trying to get pregnant and they're like 45, they had this mindset when they were younger.
00:10:24.380 Because they didn't realize or they didn't fully accept yet that what gives them the happiness that they were getting from things like this commercial extravagance, these trips, was going to change as they got older.
00:10:38.360 And they just – it had probably already changed by the time they filmed these videos.
00:10:42.100 They just built their self-identity because, you know, there's a lot of research on identity creation, which typically happens between, like, 18 and 24.
00:10:48.240 And during that period of your life, you're in this mindset of, like, kids' ick because, you know, you are supposed to be going out there and finding a mate.
00:10:55.980 Should be that way.
00:10:56.880 Yeah, it's fine.
00:10:58.040 So it makes perfect sense that you would have that mindset at that age.
00:11:01.820 But that's not, like, who you are.
00:11:03.000 But they mistakenly believe this because it's reinforced by society around them.
00:11:06.380 So then they end up in these desperate states, you know, reaching out to, you know, our foundation being like, hey, can you fund me to get IVF?
00:11:12.740 And we're like, no, that's not what the foundation does.
00:11:14.520 That is – yeah, we should point out that that is something that has happened to us, that, like, many people who probably formerly identified as child-free or dink have contacted us and basically said, like, I can no longer afford IVF.
00:11:28.140 Can you – you know, can you give me a grant?
00:11:30.080 And we can't.
00:11:31.520 And no one else will.
00:11:33.140 So this is something people should keep in mind.
00:11:35.920 Like, even if you –
00:11:37.360 That you made your own bet is really at the end of the day.
00:11:39.880 And people don't realize that they have thrown away their happiness and their future.
00:11:43.580 No organization is going to – is going to invest in a person's fertility if they're in their 40s and having trouble having a kid because they're the same dollars that they could spend on that older person could help, like, you know, 10, 20, 20-year-olds have kids.
00:12:03.840 Yeah.
00:12:04.400 So, like, they're just not going to do it.
00:12:06.060 You're not going to get help.
00:12:06.800 So I guess, like, if I'm going to give one piece of advice to dinks of, like, here's how to really have absolutely zero regrets, like, freeze eggs, sperm, and or embryos. 1.00
00:12:16.780 Embryos.
00:12:17.240 Egg freezing is a bit of a scam.
00:12:18.960 It doesn't – like, they do not work as well as people think they do. 0.61
00:12:21.860 Yeah, but, I mean, some dinks are single. 1.00
00:12:24.080 So, like, for the dink couple that went viral, I would encourage them to freeze embryos, obviously, because they were a couple and they had other people. 1.00
00:12:30.580 But, like, I think many women and men don't have a partner and, therefore, like, you have to do what you can with what you have.
00:12:37.500 So, yeah, I get what you're saying, Malcolm, but, like, at the same time, like, it's better than nothing.
00:12:42.740 And that way, like – and who knows?
00:12:45.080 Maybe you'll have, like, a sister or a brother or a cousin who really, like, can't, you know, can't use their own material and they'd really appreciate you as a donor.
00:12:51.900 So, like, this isn't for nothing.
00:12:53.200 And people who are horrified by this see our video on who kills more kids, Catholics or us. 0.77
00:12:57.400 Like, you're like, no, creating an embryo via IVF is creating a kid and so you're murdering them if they don't end up being used.
00:13:02.800 This is not what early Catholic theologians thought.
00:13:04.960 This is not what most early Christian theologians thought.
00:13:07.160 You know, you look like Augustus Epimbo or Thomas Aquinas.
00:13:10.780 You know, they thought that the soul entered the developing embryo 30 days after it began developing.
00:13:15.840 This is a fairly modern belief that is not really biblically backed.
00:13:20.360 And then we go into this with lots of quotes and stuff like that.
00:13:22.980 So just be aware that we're not out there advocating the rampant killing of kids.
00:13:26.920 We're just trying to ensure that the kids who are meant to come into the world can and we don't end up with these heartbreaking situations.
00:13:31.900 Yeah.
00:13:32.080 And we see we do see Dinks change their mind. 0.96
00:13:34.040 But I think my larger stance of Dinks is, like, the response that pronatalist communities or even just, like, broadly conservative people have to them is just totally wrong. 0.86
00:13:43.220 These are people who really, really, really, really should not be having kids.
00:13:46.620 Oh, I agree.
00:13:47.120 They don't want them.
00:13:48.000 And also, like, I've seen I've watched a lot of child free content.
00:13:52.120 I've gone through a lot of child free Reddit threads.
00:13:55.520 And I've gone through, like, posts of parents who regret becoming parents.
00:14:00.400 And that's talk about heartbreaking.
00:14:02.260 Like, I see a Dink couple or I see a child free person. 1.00
00:14:05.980 I don't feel sad for them at all.
00:14:07.220 Like, they seem pretty happy with their lifestyle.
00:14:09.220 It could, you know, not not for us.
00:14:11.200 Right.
00:14:11.400 But, like, fine.
00:14:12.720 But what makes me really sad is, like, videos, TikToks, posts by parents who are, like, don't do it.
00:14:19.520 You know, I if I could go back in time, I'm like, oh, man, like, how horrible is that, especially for the kids?
00:14:27.220 Yeah.
00:14:27.640 Well, I think a lot of these people are in sort of Dink cultural groups and stuff like that.
00:14:31.200 And they have this enforced on them.
00:14:32.620 And this is why we really do not advocate to these communities.
00:14:35.500 Yeah.
00:14:35.700 And I should point when we say, like, Dinks shouldn't have kids. 1.00
00:14:38.200 You know, we don't we mean this both from a genetic reason, like, as we've talked about, like, a Dink is obviously more likely to be narcissistic, less likely to want to get back to society, etc. 1.00
00:14:47.800 But in addition to that, I think that that they're not going to be good parents.
00:14:54.340 And and even when it's heartbreaking, when somebody reaches out to us and they're like, I didn't start trying to have kids until X age because of whatever.
00:15:01.800 It's like, well, so nobody chose to be with you who you were willing to accept.
00:15:06.280 You know, like, that's a sign, OK, that you waited this long, that you didn't question what you were being told by society.
00:15:15.200 All of these things are unfortunately like we live in a world where unfortunately not everyone is really equally fit to be a parent.
00:15:23.800 And that the selfishness that is shown by these individuals means that they're much more likely to fall into this narcissistic parent category, which is really, really something that I would promote avoiding.
00:15:36.800 One of the tweets that was done and like counter to the Dinkness, I think it was actually Elon's tweet to this, is he goes, it's really selfish to not have kids because what you're saying is somebody else's kids have to care for you in your old age.
00:15:47.940 And I thought that that was a I mean, I don't think that's going to compel Dinks, but it is also a true statement. 1.00
00:15:54.580 You know, when these people are, you know, promoting immigration and stuff like that, what they're essentially saying is we didn't take the time or make the effort to raise the next generation ourself.
00:16:05.060 And therefore, you know, when I'm old and I'm living off of the the dole, off of society, off of Social Security or whatever, I need to import people from other countries to support me.
00:16:16.360 But I also like I don't know. I don't know. I don't agree with that particular stance of Elon Musk.
00:16:22.320 I don't like I think a lot of these people are going to die deaths of despair or they're just not going to get very good services or they're not going to get human help because the human help isn't available and they're going to have to deal with that.
00:16:34.720 And that's that's just kind of on them or they'll be fine.
00:16:39.060 And, you know, it's a market based thing and they will have saved the money necessary to pay a very pretty penny for whoever is very happy to receive that money to give them services.
00:16:50.200 I don't like that argument to me doesn't do anything like either they're going to, you know, die alone on the floor or not being taken care of because they haven't planned accordingly or they're going to kill themselves, which I think a lot of I think euthanasia is going to see, especially in a post demographic collapse world, people are going to opt into humanely killing themselves when they become too old to either pay for their lifestyles or they're unhealthy, you know, or they're just going to be able to pay for someone like whatever.
00:17:19.260 And that's fine. Like I'm OK with employment.
00:17:21.800 So if they if they are paying for people, but a lot of these people don't really are not really planning to pay for them, they're going to die alone on the floor.
00:17:29.780 Or they're going to be a major voting block because people aren't having as many kids and elderly people vote more than young people and they end up taking the money from the younger generations to support their indulgent lifestyles, which is something that we're already seeing the older generation do.
00:17:46.240 That's where this unsustainable debt load and everything like that is coming from.
00:17:50.940 And they will do that and they will keep doing that and they will do it more in the future until the system breaks.
00:17:56.560 That sounds pretty evil.
00:17:57.960 Because they don't care. They don't care about future generations and they don't care about people younger than them.
00:18:03.000 They only care when you see the video. It's not like I'm a dink so I can give back to society.
00:18:07.560 It's I'm a dink so I can indulge in personal hedonism as much as possible and we will have one, you know, the next generation is likely going to suffer to some extent because of these individuals.
00:18:18.360 However, that suffering will to some extent be ameliorated with the knowledge that at least these individuals have removed themselves from our cultural landscape and our genetic landscape.
00:18:29.340 And this is something that I think people really don't expect much, you know, running the peronatalist movement, people will come to us and they'll say, how do you convince this environmentalist who doesn't want to have kids?
00:18:39.980 How do you convince this person who has no kids that they think they can't afford them or something?
00:18:44.620 And it's like, well, except, you know, the less money you have, the more kids you have.
00:18:47.960 So clearly people with less money than them are able to afford kids.
00:18:50.700 Within all of these instances, we're just like, don't have kids with no argument for them.
00:18:54.920 And they don't get it because they're not used to that.
00:18:56.400 Every movement they've dealt with before says, everyone, you must do what we're telling you to do.
00:19:02.200 When we come to them and they come to us and they're like, well, what do you think of me doing this?
00:19:06.420 And we're just like, well, we don't care about you.
00:19:08.860 You don't matter to us.
00:19:09.880 You're not part of the solution.
00:19:11.440 You're not.
00:19:12.020 And you have no capacity to be part of the solution.
00:19:14.660 The mere fact that you would ask me to convince you shows you have no capacity to be part of the solution.
00:19:20.500 Yeah.
00:19:21.100 And then there's the alternate group, which does matter for us to reach out to.
00:19:25.000 These are young people who are being influenced, are brainwashed, and just need to know that this is an option for them, that this is a problem, and that these environmental nutjobs, we've done a video on this, are mostly lying to them.
00:19:36.720 These AI nutjobs, we've done a video on this, are mostly lying to them.
00:19:39.960 These things are not the threats that they're being told.
00:19:43.660 If they had studied American history in something outside of our horrified, failing public school system, they likely don't know.
00:19:51.080 What would be blindingly obvious to anyone who has actually studied American history is that America has a large apocalypticist movement that spreads, particularly within upper class communities, urban communities, stuff like that, about every 20 years, 25 years about.
00:20:05.620 And this is just something that America has had forever.
00:20:08.960 And no, they are not the first generation to think the world's about to end.
00:20:12.800 And it doesn't happen.
00:20:15.120 It doesn't happen.
00:20:16.480 I'm sorry.
00:20:18.420 It's the first time for everything, I'm sure.
00:20:21.360 There is a first time for everything.
00:20:23.560 But I would look as a barometer for is the world actually about to end?
00:20:27.220 Not what people from a culture that does this every 25 years.
00:20:30.940 Yeah, they're probably not the most.
00:20:32.600 But instead, look at countries and cultures that are intelligent and developed, but that don't have this panic scenario every 25 years.
00:20:39.560 And see if they are panicking about these things.
00:20:41.320 Especially if they have a record for calling other shots.
00:20:44.360 So, yeah.
00:20:45.860 Yeah.
00:20:46.120 And if they don't have these same problems, then it's probably not the same issue that these people think it is.
00:20:51.700 And that they're really just looking for justification for decisions they were already inclined to make or wanted to make, while also making themselves feel morally important.
00:21:00.160 Like they're at an important point in history.
00:21:01.460 Because everybody wants to feel that way.
00:21:02.880 Yeah.
00:21:03.020 I really get that, right?
00:21:04.640 And I do think that we are at an important point in history, but not in a nothing-we-do-matters way.
00:21:09.320 But the, you know, see our dark ageism video, everything we do in history right now has an extra layer of importance to it.
00:21:16.380 Because we are in one of the last ages of prosperity.
00:21:19.160 One of the last ages where you could really indulge in dinkism.
00:21:22.600 It's very much, you know, you look at right before the collapse of the Islamic Empire, right before the collapse of the Roman Empire.
00:21:28.300 And if you saw people like marching, oh, look, like we don't have kids.
00:21:31.920 Look at how wealthy.
00:21:32.840 Look at all the, you know, slaves we've been able to buy to carry us on pelanquins, you know.
00:21:37.580 Well, it is, you have the other guy who's like, oh gosh, okay, the system's about to collapse.
00:21:42.640 Okay, I need to have a lot of kids.
00:21:43.700 I know that everyone's really concerned that, like, the upper classes have stopped having kids.
00:21:46.740 And I need to, because Caesar was concerned about this.
00:21:48.920 You know, there's famous laws that he was passing because he noticed that nobody was having kids anymore.
00:21:52.880 And I need to plan out, like, geographically where are they going to live because Rome's going to become more destabilized in these areas, et cetera.
00:21:59.260 Like, this requires a lot of work.
00:22:00.900 And it puts a lot of responsibility on an individual.
00:22:03.020 And it is both a gift and a curse that we are the generation that gets to engage in that responsibility.
00:22:09.300 But because of that, this is no longer a situation of just convince everyone to have more kids. 0.95
00:22:15.220 It's now a situation of empower the people who are going to build the next civilization to do a better job doing that instead of, you know, convert these, you know, pretty pathetic individuals.
00:22:28.580 But here's something that I think is more interesting and under-discussed on this issue, which is the amount of butthurt you do get from pronatalist people about dinks and child-free couples.
00:22:39.700 And I think what's really telling about the butthurt that you get from them and the fact that they react viscerally and are so judgmental really implies, it could imply, a tremendous lack of security in their decision and a certain amount of resentment that they do not share that same amount of affluence and freedom.
00:23:01.240 And I think a lot of that may be because we do.
00:23:05.020 This is what's really interesting, Sinan.
00:23:07.020 When I look at the pushback against the dink movement, it does not come from like pronatalist parents.
00:23:14.180 I see it occasionally there, but it's not predominantly from that group.
00:23:18.140 The predominant group, because I was going through videos today on YouTube complaining about dinks. 1.00
00:23:22.000 It's actually mostly from younger moderates who one day plan to have kids.
00:23:28.440 Oh, interesting.
00:23:29.080 So then I guess that would explain it more because then they're on the fence and they still feel more heavily the pressures of wanting all the nice stuff, right?
00:23:38.540 Yeah.
00:23:38.900 Yeah.
00:23:39.720 And they might be closer to these communities or they haven't fully achieved, you know, the having kids yet and everything like that.
00:23:45.900 I think that when people are on like the civilizational train, I'd say they don't really care about the people who are off the civilizational train.
00:23:52.560 It's more like let's focus on everyone else who's on the civilizational train.
00:23:56.140 And the dinks are just not participating in the civilizational train and the fight that they're having is with other people who aren't on it yet. 0.87
00:24:03.880 I still, I still think that there are, I mean, in the commentary I've seen, there are some families that have a lot of kids that do, that do complain occasionally and bemoan like the hedonic sacrifices they have to make with kids.
00:24:20.740 And I think that's just a product of living in a society that celebrates the lifestyle of a like late teen, early twenties, male or female.
00:24:29.940 And I don't feel that way even a little.
00:24:32.120 No, no, I don't either.
00:24:33.260 I just think, I think this is why you're going to see, why we see some of that butthurt, even sometimes from pernatalist people.
00:24:39.080 Although, like, I would say, like, the Jolly Heretic's reaction to this was not even that.
00:24:43.440 It was just, like, really funny because he's hilarious.
00:24:46.320 I hear what you're saying, yeah.
00:24:48.460 But I think this is important for the pernatalist movement to remember.
00:24:51.000 Like, if you consider yourself part of the movement and you're out there advocating for it, when somebody comes to you and they go, well, how are you going to convince me to have kids?
00:24:58.540 How do you convince, you know, the 20-something environmentalist who doesn't want to have kids?
00:25:02.160 Because we don't.
00:25:04.800 That's the point.
00:25:05.740 We do not.
00:25:06.600 These people are not a part of the problem in that they're a part of the solution, to be honest.
00:25:13.220 If there's a group out there that opposes you and is sterilizing themselves, do not, you know, fuck up your opponent when they are in the process of a great mistake.
00:25:24.680 Like, you know, this is something that around the world, what great blessing it is to have your opponents primarily be a group that is sterilizing themselves. 0.54
00:25:35.760 That is not a mistake that you want to get in the middle of, nor do you want to take too much relish in the fact that they are going to lead to more suffering within their own population in the long run.
00:25:47.840 So, like, we can point out within our communities, wow, these people are really probably going to end up trying to get pregnant later. 1.00
00:25:53.100 They're going to be really sad about this decision.
00:25:55.700 They are going to suffer emotional and psychological consequences for this decision.
00:25:59.900 But we do not publish that, you know, when we're doing, like, press stuff and stuff like that.
00:26:04.460 We don't push those positions.
00:26:06.180 We do not say, oh, they're going to regret this because that's not the message we want.
00:26:11.440 Like, we are okay with the fact that they end up regretting this.
00:26:14.140 We just say, do what you want.
00:26:15.540 We don't care.
00:26:16.160 Because the kids that are not burdened with having to live with these parents are fortunately, hopefully, going to be born into families like ours or like other high-fertility families that really are having kids because they want to make the world a better place intergenerationally and because they want to participate in this intergenerational cycle and not as an alternative to going on a trip to Florida every year in terms of the amount of happiness or status it gets.
00:26:44.460 That's it.
00:26:46.980 Yeah.
00:26:49.220 Do you have any other thoughts on your dinky dinks?
00:26:55.280 One thing I'm just thinking about is before we had kids and we lived as a dink couple, having these thoughts of, like, well, I better enjoy sleeping through the night because I'm never going to do it again. 1.00
00:27:09.600 And I do somewhat – as much as I know it's not really productive to have a conversation about, like, oh, actually being a parent isn't so bad.
00:27:18.960 But it actually really isn't, though.
00:27:20.740 Like, I just – I just want to say that that's true.
00:27:22.940 I mean, I'll be honest.
00:27:23.680 Who I feel more bad for than dinks is – I don't know what to call it – two and below parents. 1.00
00:27:29.820 Oh, that is – oh, that's really interesting.
00:27:32.840 The hardest form of parent is having one kid.
00:27:35.560 Oh, so hard.
00:27:36.920 I think two kids might be almost as hard, but they're both really hard.
00:27:41.500 At least when you have two kids, they, like, you know, keep each other occupied.
00:27:45.160 A little bit.
00:27:45.580 Yeah, yeah.
00:27:45.960 Like, a one-parent family is far – one, they're not really on the civilizational train.
00:27:52.940 So they're not getting the benefits of having kids.
00:27:54.980 And two, the effort required to raise one kid.
00:27:58.960 The sacrifices you make to raise one kid are so much higher than the sacrifices you make when you're having seven or eight kids or something like that, you know.
00:28:07.760 Oh, it's the worst.
00:28:08.560 And everything's a big deal.
00:28:10.340 Also, like, you kind of feel morally obligated to, like, make everything a big deal because you can.
00:28:15.740 I remember sleeping through the night thing that you were talking about.
00:28:18.080 And I remember when we had our first kid, like, that was genuinely at the beginning, like, an issue.
00:28:21.560 Like, I was like, oh, you know, so much work.
00:28:23.460 It was only so much work because we had decided to make it a lot of work because it was one kid.
00:28:26.820 That's the thing.
00:28:27.340 Yeah.
00:28:27.660 Like, when you're like, oh, I'm just going to sit, you know, sit up and stare at my kid all night.
00:28:31.880 And that's not to say, like, literally every night.
00:28:36.280 And I've been sleeping incredibly well.
00:28:38.060 Like, solid eight hours, really good sleep.
00:28:40.520 I have never slept so well, I think, in my life up until, like, this past month.
00:28:45.980 I don't know what's going on.
00:28:46.740 It's just been amazing.
00:28:48.000 You used to always complain about sleeping.
00:28:49.240 I'm glad you're happy.
00:28:50.400 Maybe it's all the sex dreams.
00:28:52.120 Maybe it's all the sex dreams about you.
00:28:53.880 I don't know what it is. 0.93
00:28:54.780 It's that I'm extra hot for you.
00:28:56.420 It's that you've been extra hot.
00:28:57.600 So, like, maybe I sleep well because my female mind is, like, husband's in the house. 0.97
00:29:02.100 Everything's perfect.
00:29:02.940 He's better than ever.
00:29:04.200 So, now you can probably talk about it.
00:29:05.580 It's improving to stay good enough for you.
00:29:08.080 But, like, I sleep with our, like, I'm in the master bedroom now.
00:29:12.140 The crib is right here.
00:29:13.280 The bed that I sleep in is right there.
00:29:16.120 And I am always listening.
00:29:18.240 Like, I will always have an infant in this room.
00:29:20.120 And I'm always listening for them breathing.
00:29:21.940 I'm always paranoid and, like, terrified that they're going to stop breathing.
00:29:24.560 I'm always, like, you know, I'll wake up and then I'll listen for them.
00:29:29.660 So, like, I am constantly, like, monitoring.
00:29:31.880 I am worrying.
00:29:33.040 But also, like, I'm sleeping really well.
00:29:35.000 And I'm fine.
00:29:35.780 And they're fine.
00:29:36.560 And nobody's fussing.
00:29:37.840 And, like, it's okay.
00:29:39.280 And I can also hear both of our kids immediately below me because their bunk bed is, like,
00:29:44.040 immediately below the master bed.
00:29:45.740 And I can hear Octavian talking to himself and, like, thumping the wall with his toys and stuff.
00:29:51.500 And that's good.
00:29:52.240 And it's fine.
00:29:53.160 But, like, it also just sort of becomes, like, part of your background mental processing.
00:29:57.880 And I don't know.
00:29:58.600 I just – I think it's unfair because, like, people framed being a parent as way worse than it actually was.
00:30:06.600 You'll never get in a full night of sleep again.
00:30:08.900 But it was accurate for being a parent of one child.
00:30:12.660 Yeah.
00:30:13.020 All of the negative stuff you hear about being a parent is totally true if you are a parent of one to two children. 0.91
00:30:18.540 Yeah.
00:30:18.700 It is totally not true once you get well above two children.
00:30:21.340 Yeah.
00:30:22.900 So being a diok is the worst, a dual-income one kid. 1.00
00:30:27.420 Yeah.
00:30:27.960 Yeah.
00:30:28.300 Complete most stressful thing.
00:30:29.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:30:30.780 And it's interesting.
00:30:32.820 If you – like, after your first kid, if you're framing having more kids, like, you just assume you're going to have a bunch of kids.
00:30:37.880 The way you build the routines around your kids, the way you build your routines around pregnancy are really different and just make the whole process a lot easier.
00:30:46.940 Yeah.
00:30:47.240 But you also – and this is a problem that Simone and I constantly have.
00:30:50.200 Like, you have this constant fear that you're not going to be able to have all the kids that you want.
00:30:55.080 Yeah.
00:30:55.280 And your house always feels empty.
00:30:56.980 Yeah.
00:30:57.220 You know, right now we've got three kids.
00:30:59.560 You're pregnant with number four. 1.00
00:31:00.660 And every time I look at a room, I'm like, why is no one here?
00:31:05.940 Like, where is everyone?
00:31:07.860 You know, I need the stampede.
00:31:10.100 I need – no, no, no.
00:31:11.320 It feels very much like a ghost house, which I think is really surprising to people when they normalize to two kids.
00:31:17.720 When you normalize your brain to the idea I'll have, like, seven to 13 kids, which, you know, realistically we'll probably only get to seven even if we do everything right.
00:31:25.980 You –
00:31:26.240 You never know.
00:31:27.600 We can try.
00:31:28.580 We can try.
00:31:29.340 And you look at things, you're like, well, you know, I just – it feels so empty.
00:31:37.020 It feels so, so, so empty.
00:31:38.760 And it feels so like we're doing so little.
00:31:41.120 But we also end up making decisions like finding ways to take them out of daycare and stuff like that that actually are financially beneficial to us even now.
00:31:48.460 But they're decisions we probably wouldn't have been forced to find solutions to had we not planned on having so many more kids.
00:31:55.720 We would have been like, well, we can deal with the financial cost of – or the temporal cost of doing this or that.
00:32:01.520 That's true.
00:32:02.160 Yeah.
00:32:02.400 You're allowed and able to and encouraged to make very unsustainable financial choices.
00:32:09.100 So, like, yeah, I guess it is true being a parent is way, way, way, way worse than being a dual income, no kids couple or person when you have just one, maybe two kids, extra stressful.
00:32:21.860 And then after that, it can get – especially after four.
00:32:24.300 That's when economies of scale, like, kick in.
00:32:26.680 You know, when you actually look at literal unit economics, that's when it really –
00:32:29.760 She's actually right.
00:32:30.780 It really doesn't begin to help until after four.
00:32:33.040 That's when you get to, like, very marginal.
00:32:34.940 It's like $1,000 extra to raise a kid once you have above four kids a year.
00:32:39.540 Yeah.
00:32:40.020 There's just not much. 0.82
00:32:41.720 But anyway, to all the dinks out there, we respect your choice. 1.00
00:32:45.140 Have fun. 0.87
00:32:46.680 We – yeah.
00:32:49.580 You have our blessing and you don't need it, but we don't need your blessing.
00:32:54.420 Have a great life and I really hope that it does work out for you because I appreciate the service that you are playing to our species by removing yourself from the cultural and genetic pool.
00:33:03.140 God.
00:33:05.360 Speaking of genetic pools, I want to start doing these ads at the end of videos.
00:33:10.260 Oh.
00:33:11.040 Because I want to support my brother and he has created a very cool product.
00:33:16.220 We really like our brother.
00:33:17.180 Legit, though.
00:33:17.940 Smart guy.
00:33:19.080 We've talked about him in other episodes.
00:33:20.280 It's called Bunbox, like bunny box.
00:33:23.100 One word.
00:33:24.120 B-U-N-B-O-X. 1.00
00:33:25.080 You can find it on Chrome Store.
00:33:26.760 It's free right now.
00:33:28.520 And what it does is if you click a little button within your Gmail account, sort of next to like, you know, the delete message button and stuff like that, it actually will just summarize the message up top.
00:33:37.040 And you can click a button to automatically create an AI response to that message.
00:33:40.780 And you can do this within messages, too.
00:33:42.320 You read a message.
00:33:43.200 You get one of the six, you know, suggested AI responses or you can create a prompt and it will create a response for you.
00:33:48.640 And it works spectacularly well from what I've seen so far that if you're worried about security or anything like that, I mean, he's my brother.
00:33:55.440 Like, I don't know.
00:33:56.360 Like, if you trust – I trust him fully.
00:33:58.040 Like, this is the thing.
00:33:59.580 Like, if it was anyone else out there creating, like, an AI product like this, I'd be worried about giving them access to my inbox as an AI.
00:34:08.060 But this is, like, alternate timeline, Malcolm.
00:34:11.700 I'm – I – yeah, just think what you will of that, you know?
00:34:15.820 Alternate timeline, Malcolm, who worries about everything.
00:34:18.620 Like, we were once in a building with him and he was like, how sure are you of the structural integrity of this building?
00:34:25.760 Like, he was literally worried that the building was going to collapse on top of us.
00:34:29.440 He thinks about everything.
00:34:30.800 So, yeah, no, he's being extremely thoughtful about security and everything else.
00:34:34.760 I will add, just in terms of, like, cool feature to this, I personally don't use it to compose emails because I don't like AI style of writing.
00:34:42.300 Even, like, good AI style.
00:34:43.500 This is good AI style.
00:34:44.400 He has very good prompt injections, whatever it is he's using to make sure that the emails that he generates are good.
00:34:49.820 But I use it for emails that stress me out where I'm like, I just don't want to deal with this.
00:34:54.780 And it's great because it summarizes things.
00:34:57.420 What's even better is we run a business that works with a lot of vendors and clients throughout Latin America and in Spain.
00:35:06.060 I'm fluent in Spanish.
00:35:07.500 I can deal with it.
00:35:08.340 But when something is both stressful and in another language, sometimes I'm just like, I don't want to.
00:35:12.820 I'm not ready for this.
00:35:14.400 And this will give me nice bulleted summaries in English of everything that happened in the entire email thread.
00:35:19.700 It will even remind you, if there's, like, a chain that you summarize, it will say, like, so-and-so said this, and then you responded saying that.
00:35:28.300 And then, you know, and it's genuinely wonderful.
00:35:31.660 Really has reduced my stress palpably.
00:35:34.240 Well, that's why he made it, you know.
00:35:35.420 We were talking.
00:35:36.140 I actually was there when he had the idea for the product.
00:35:38.500 We were talking on a plane.
00:35:39.460 He had just entered a major life transition after a success.
00:35:43.240 And he's like, what do I do next with my career?
00:35:46.220 And I had sent him an email recently, and I was like, you know, did you get this email?
00:35:51.200 He goes, no, honestly, I find answering email really stressful, so I don't go through all my email.
00:35:55.820 And I was like, well, what do you mean?
00:35:57.620 He's like, I just – and I got it, sort of, because I feel the same way about some things, like answering a phone message.
00:36:02.960 I find those really stressful.
00:36:04.680 Like, if somebody could just summarize and tell me.
00:36:06.740 I feel the same thing with articles on us whenever we go viral or something like that.
00:36:10.120 I always tell Simone, I was like, can you read the article and tell me if I should feel pain?
00:36:14.500 Or somebody does a video on us.
00:36:16.060 I'm like, can you watch the video and just summarize it for me so I don't need to go through that myself?
00:36:20.520 And so this is how he feels with email.
00:36:22.340 And he's like, yeah, it'd be really cool if somebody could just summarize and handle these emails for me.
00:36:27.540 And I was like, well, there's your business idea right there.
00:36:30.220 And he's like, could I really do that?
00:36:32.420 And so then he built it.
00:36:33.820 And I'm proud of him because it works well.
00:36:35.900 It's really good.
00:36:36.740 And, you know, I've looked at so many AI-based solutions that really, really disappoint.
00:36:42.100 Because I want them to work.
00:36:43.600 I need them to work.
00:36:44.540 So anyway, very impressed.
00:36:45.960 He's great.
00:36:47.500 But he's your brother, of course.
00:36:48.760 Yeah, he's my brother.
00:36:49.860 As a side note for anyone who does end up downloading the app, Bunbox, on the Chrome store,
00:36:54.880 after you install it from the Chrome store, you then have to click on, you know,
00:36:58.920 your little icon that shows all the widgets or apps you've downloaded.
00:37:02.560 And then click on Bunbox, then click Activate.
00:37:06.400 If you don't click Activate, it won't start working on your Gmail account.
00:37:09.860 And you need to reload the page after that on Gmail.
00:37:12.060 But I figure that's self-evident.
00:37:14.100 Please, you know, he's putting this out there for free right now.
00:37:17.000 If you do like it and you do use it, leave a review.
00:37:20.580 That's all we're really in this for right now.
00:37:22.500 And tell your friends about it.
00:37:24.020 And, you know, he's working with us, hopefully, on the school now as well to integrate AI with
00:37:28.740 the school, which I'm really excited about as it gets closer to launch.
00:37:32.180 And for our fans, for any of you who are interested in helping us with the school,
00:37:36.100 we could really use help with that.
00:37:38.240 That's another area we could use help.
00:37:39.800 So specifically going over the skill tree, like if you have a lot of understanding of
00:37:43.720 one particular subject area and you're like, I would like to review the tree for that,
00:37:47.680 let us know about that.
00:37:48.900 And the final area where we could call out for fan help, just as long as we're doing
00:37:52.300 this, is I've been meaning to replace the little, like, logo that was created with an
00:37:56.680 AI for this channel for a while.
00:37:58.200 I paid to have, like, a portrait of us drawn and it didn't look very good.
00:38:01.680 If anyone has anything that they think would be good logo for the channel, let us know,
00:38:06.220 because that's another thing we're looking to replace.
00:38:09.540 But I love you, Simone, and I hope you have a spectacular day.
00:38:13.000 I love you too, gorgeous.