Women Ask Men to Be Vulnerable Then Leave Them： Are Relationships Impossible？
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
194.00635
Summary
In this episode, Simone and I discuss why men cry, why women cry, and why they leave men who cry. We talk about why this is a problem, why it happens, and how to overcome it.
Transcript
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hello simone i'm excited to be here with you today today we are going to be talking about men
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crying and women leaving them or men going to women for emotional support and then women
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getting the ick this has been an ongoing trend as as like a meme that goes around every now and
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then within the red pill diaspora or even the original red pill or mgtow community back in the
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day if somebody would be like well you know x girl said she wanted me to open up to her emotionally
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or she wanted me to be vulnerable around her or a girl will say something like well you know why
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why don't men ever like show their emotions or cry or whatever right and and then men are always like
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well because i tried that once and the woman never talked to me again or forced me or like you know
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over and over and over again you see these stories okay and so you know i understand why these go
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viral is in the red pill community like my brain sees this and the first thought it has is that
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so unfair i'm just picturing greta sunberg saying how
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how dare you say this is what you want i tried and then what did you do you left me
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it also sounds it seems kind of fake to me though so i'm i'm what do you mean fake do you not think
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it really happens i'm sure men express themselves extremely flamboyantly all the time online and in
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person like i i don't i don't ever i've never felt like men are withholding their emotions i feel like
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what's actually happening here is women signaling maybe because they're seeing a therapist or something
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that they expect a certain type of emotional vulnerability from their male partners like
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remember how you were walking behind those elite people at that one conference we went to
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yeah and they were like i would never date someone who wasn't seeing a therapist it could be
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their therapist or kind of giving them by the way and then and so they're they're then communicating
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to their boyfriends like well you have to be therapy speak insert um and then the men attempt to in a
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very fake and contrived way open up and break down and i mean obviously they look like idiots because
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they don't actually that's not how they feel and that might actually be a component of it i'm not gonna
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lie i might feel like part of it because when i started like investigating my own experiences around
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this right like the first thing i think is how dare women be that you know callous crazy yeah but then
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then i then first thought is these women don't know that they don't want a guy to do this like
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they're not trying to trick their boyfriends into crying in front of them or something no they
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genuinely think that this is what they want because this is what they've been told what they want you
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know they're not yeah and what they've been told and by whom exactly because this isn't stuff that
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shows up for example in fantasy romance novels men opening up in a way where they become emotionally
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vulnerable by crying does not happen in romance novels which are we important by the way which is
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yeah this this is what women actually want the the monster effort section of the library doesn't
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doesn't show up in that well no even like when i was a when i was younger i i loved historical
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okay romance so like not that's not there were no monsters it was just always noble men because
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they had to have money you know but then i i started to think about you know before i dated
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simone and i was like well because another thing i thought when i heard this is i don't remember
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having this problem i don't remember any girl ever leaving me because i opened myself up emotionally
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to her and i never intentionally tried to emotionally guard myself when i was dating and i dated
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a lot you were extremely transparent like from moment number one so i think you also edited out
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anyone but i'm but i'm also from the perspective of a lot of guys whether they say simpy or effeminate
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or whatever word they want to use you know i do not appear to be the archetype of masculinity
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nor am or at least a generalist societal archetype i would argue i'm an archetype within my cultural
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background we we were told one person noted that your neck wasn't wide enough but i don't know how
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it could be any wider without you looking really weird they mean like a neck like that's all i can
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imagine triangle neck yeah like what's his face who does the morning routines and has the most
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kyphotic posture in the world he makes me so great the point i'm i'm making here right largely speaking
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is is i i am i am couching what i'm about to say in a this is malcolm saying this you know malcolm
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effeminate malcolm malcolm who's never tried to overly represent a form of masculinity sure yeah
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and i was i thought to myself i'd never had this problem then i searched my memory you know i've dated
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a lot of girls you know as i've mentioned before i haven't mentioned in a long time on the podcast i
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probably should like i've slept with over 100 women before i merged them out like i i i really
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played the field for a long time and it was wrong and i'm not saying it's a good thing i did it
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because i didn't have any other moral structure back then i was just like oh what is status for
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men status is sleeping around so i'm gonna sleep around right and then eventually i got to a point
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where i was like this is stupid well it was fun for you right i mean you look fun oh i i had fun but
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more from a game perspective like i'm winning winning feels good look at what i'm winning yeah winning
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winning feels good i i don't know if like like sex is fine but it's like not like once you do it a lot
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with a lot of people it's like not that like it's like okay it's not like it gets worse like some
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people are like oh again no it doesn't get worse it's just the you realize that you may have
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misologized how good it is a bit but the point here being or or ignored the bad part the the smell
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the shower afterwards the grossness you know etc is this stranger who you haven't vetted you're kind
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of like where where have they been i guess they're hot you know what did i just put myself
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we vetted everyone to an extent it wasn't like i was sleeping with strangers i wasn't like going to
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bars or something like like a good like quarter of the people i slept with were virgins when i slept
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with them and i you know i had enough experience to tell the difference you know so it wasn't like i was
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going after sluts i i was going after you know the nerds like that was my specialty is nerds but the
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point i'm making here is so i searched my memory i'm like okay i never had a problem with this
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and then i started to think did i ever cry in front of a girl did i ever look for like like show
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emotional vulnerability to a girl did you like past malcolm responded to me in my head like i'm
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modeling past malcolm and past malcolm's like why would you do that girls are for sex like oh he
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so did well i guess i should have you ever cried in front of a like a your brother or a friend
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like who's a guy maybe when i was a little kid and i got that doesn't count like little no like
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not injury crying yeah but i i i'm again i'm couching all this and i'm not saying i didn't even realize
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until i thought about it that i had never gone out and cried in front of a girl that i had never
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gone out and cried in front of a friend or something like that that i had never wanted like
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have you ever stopped yourself from crying in front of me alone but you cried alone yeah but it's
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never over like sadness just like frustration no it's it's usually over like somebody else's
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suffering or something that i need to fix in the world or you know the beauty of something well
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that's there's one form of crying that is manly and i think like at least the older ones of us can
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all relate to it there was this commercial i think it was about trash where there's a crying
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yeah and the single tear goes this man yeah and he's like his face is the most stoic facial expression
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in the world and a single tear falls down his cheek and like that is the acceptable manly form like
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it does that doesn't undermine your crying at all because it shows like you're in complete control
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but you feel so much that one tear is able to make um no control but also keep in mind he is
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crying over like when i said that i it's over like a world problems right which i guess also is manly
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right because it shows that you are a leader you are responsible for a larger world like george bush
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crying when he's looking at the katrina victims i remember this you know the idea of like when is it
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appropriate to show vulnerability and emotion not as a man but but the wider personal stuff no but
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like for the people that you lead or care about or represent as long as you don't show too much like
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just a guilty but the point i'm trying to make here is this is me saying this not trying to front how
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masculine i am yeah no you've never tried to look masculine it just never occurred to me
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why i would want to do this and we're going to talk about this in a second but then also
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in our relationship have i ever cried about anything did i cry when my mom died did i cry
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no but i look when your mom died not only did you not cry you proceeded to host a lunch guests in new
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york city and then a dinner party all the same day it was pre-brand i couldn't cancel it you know
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most people would and like people kept being like when they when they found out because we didn't tell
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them exactly right away they were like oh my god i mean i remember you looked like you were close to
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crying that day and i just felt like i had to calm you down because you were like oh this is so bad
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and i was like simone our kids are safe you know blah blah blah and i talked you through it and i
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remember like the only thing i was thinking about when you told me was like oh i've got to make sure
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simone feels comfortable because clearly she's really distressed but the larger point here being is even
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with this even with me never really crying in our relationship even with me never really you know
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any of this it was never and i don't think it ever felt to you like i intentionally was trying not to
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show emotions to you i've i've definitely sat you down and talked about concerns i have about our
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future whether it's financial concern no and there are times where yeah you just feel super worried but
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often like when you do so you're sort of like man i'm like being you know sort of overtaken by this and
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like to the point of it not being logical that i need to talk through it but the point i'm trying
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to make here is i feel like what's actually happening here is even for men who aren't very
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traditionally masculine crying is just not a common thing to do as an adult nor is seeking emotional
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validation and i should note here that the form of crying that men get punished for is the type of
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crying that seeks emotional validation or that is meant to portray a specific self-image
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i guess we have to think like why was crying evolved i imagine it's to pull the heartstrings
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of a parent and the caregiver so meant to tell mommy that you need resources right yeah yeah and so if
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you are doing this to an adult and and and some women continue this into adulthood right and i think
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the reason we see this behavior in some women in adulthood and not men is because for women it can
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be a way to signal their youth and thus the number of childbearing years they have left they want to
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show men actually i'm very young whereas a man doesn't need to signal that to women in the same
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way a voice blue sexy baby thing isn't an act i don't know sexy baby i can't help in front or
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attracted to me like that homeless guy he likes what he sees okay that could be for me isn't it
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yes for her well and yeah i know i i really feel this and this is why i feel pretty strongly about that
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theory because i really don't like crying like i know a bunch of people who are really afraid of
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vomiting like two of my best friends in college had like a deep fear of vomiting like they would
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not eat out so that they would just never have a risk yeah poisoning that level of fear and i think
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i feel not that crazy but like close to crying i really hate crying and i've learned that the best way
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to never cry is to know that when i am especially hormonally vulnerable to isolate myself which is why we
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do the whole thing where when i give birth and clearly i'm going through a lot of hormonal nonsense
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you drop me off at the hospital i deliver the baby i like post-d-section have to spend a couple
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nights in the hospital and then when i'm out like okay like i'm collected but like it's really hard
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like if and i don't cry almost at all unless like there's a nurse around asking me how i feel
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because i i know that the only times i cry are if there's an audience that's in like a kind of
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caregiving position that makes me feel somewhat vulnerable and then like this signaling thing
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comes out where like because my body or mind knows it's in some form of distress it's like all right do
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it and i think many women maybe it makes sense that women who are more likely to be in very vulnerable
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positions like let's say you're in a roving clan or a tribe or something like that and you're pregnant
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or you you've just delivered like you actually are much more dependent like you still are in a
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slightly more childlike dependent state even as an adult because of that physical vulnerability
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demonstrates use to an extent you know men yeah yes it's useful then yeah you're still crying so you
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may not be a child but you still need someone you need to pull someone's heartstrings so you don't die
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because you can't otherwise keep up with everyone due to your pregnancy or due to being postpartum or
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something like that so and but i really i think that has to be it because there's such a strong
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correlation at least for me between crying and there being audience and like if no one's around i am so
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fine well this might also be why i haven't felt an intuition to do it because i don't feel the same type
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of caregiver from you that i would feel from a mom right like you are somebody who supports me but
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ultimately depends on me as are other women who i dated therefore i wouldn't cry right like why
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it's like not some unidirectional caregiver relationship yeah which makes it you know make
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more sense within that context and the point i was making earlier is that if you look at the ways
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where it's okay for a man to cry yeah they are when it is not about self-vulnerability yeah when
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it's certainly not the signaling type of crying yes it's you know you are crying for the sake of the
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in a way it's about showing your responsibility yeah versus you know responsibility right right right
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because it's not about you personally it's about yeah like you're only crying because you do make the
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thing you're crying about your personal responsibility and that thing isn't you it's beyond
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you and this may also explain why women when this does ultimately happen in the way where men are
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crying for personal reasons so repulsive because it implies to women that those men must think those
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women are the caregiver yes and that is the number one like of the least sexy things a man can do
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to imply that the woman is the caregiver to signal that in any way explicitly or implicitly or through
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body language and crying is a very probably a very clear form of that that yeah oh why did she
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develop the ick when i called her mommy and put my head in her lap and cried right like yeah well maybe
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because you shouldn't have signaled to her that she's your mommy right like well it's so it's also
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like and this is exacerbated by there's this huge discussion online among women because i i can't
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tell you how many podcasts and youtube episodes i've seen about this of one the research shows that
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when in relationships women take on more like they do more work for for taking care of their husbands
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and they do so like already women are taking this on and already now because of all this media
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most women are aware of the fact that they're taking this burden on and then if a husband turns
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around and is explicitly like yeah you're you're my mommy like or you're my caregiver that just that
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but like snaps them they're like that's it because like at least they want to have this fantasy that
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like well you know when it comes down to it though my husband provides the money and the security
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when it comes down to it my husband's dominant and if that falls apart then like it's worth it
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oh the whole heart falls apart yeah so like how how how are women the asshole then like at that
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point right that makes it seem a lot they believe that they want something they don't actually want
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they're like i want somebody i can be vulnerable in front of yeah because that's what they've been
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told by therapist culture and you're you know and ask guys to you know think for themselves
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like do you do you actually like do do you actually want somebody who you can be vulnerable
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around i mean you can draw out the vulnerable side of you like anyone could do that but does
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that feel good does that feel natural or is then just leaning into that help you in any way yeah
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is i i think i don't like being vulnerable is that oh this is unfair that i can't turn to them
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with my vulnerabilities yeah and what i would reflect back to me and keep in mind there are cultures
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i will point out women don't necessarily want to be vulnerable and by choosing to not have kids and
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by choosing to not put themselves in vulnerable positions women are signaling that in the modern
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age women don't want to be in this position they don't want to be physically incapacitated by
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pregnancy or postpartum periods okay i think like that's sort of tangential to the point the point
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here is that a lot of men when they see these they're like how terrible is it that i can't go
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to anybody when i'm having emotional distress and the way i would reframe this as you know you
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frankly like when dad went to 7-eleven to get scratchers i guess he won because that was six years
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ago which happens dad's leave no need to be a pussy about it here's what i need god you know but this
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is unfortunately and i and i know our society doesn't tell you this emotional control should
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really not be that hard as an adult male like and and i'm and i'm again this is the simp malcolm
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this is effeminate malcolm telling you like i never even considered that i was controlling me
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things about myself because i never thought about indulging in them right like i am not here saying
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i am extra masculine i am saying that you are being primed to think that you need to do this thing
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that is actually not good for you at all in the same way that we point out that you know people are
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taught oh you need to let out anger and yet we know that like if you punch a wall it actually makes
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you angry yeah like it's not gonna help pop psychologist stuff like indulge in an emotion for a short
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period to release it no indulging for an emotion in a short period makes it louder it doesn't release
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it that's not a no yeah redirecting your attention and recontextualizing what's happening to you
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it's how you lower an emotion not indulging in it when this is one of these like pop psychology things
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are oh you know real men cry who the made that up i'll tell you what it wasn't a man who said that
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right like yeah it was some weird group that was trying to psyop men into making themselves look
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like wusses in front of their their their partners right it's basically the way i right like it's
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group that is like well of men acted more like women and and again the women do not realize that
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this is not what they want no they're i mean well yeah and the women also you know like these are the
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same people who are brainwashed into codependent relationships with their therapists i mean
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yeah a lot of problems going on they've got a lot of problems going on but i mean the to start with
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for you guys is just i mean i think that this is a part of the problem like this is not a
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something that you are like you need to resist or something like i'd make an example here if i decided
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that like i wasn't going to masturbate like that would be an enormous challenge for me i would be like
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are you glad i'm not one of those those wives who are like you're not allowed so much of it online
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recently yeah i mean the head of prager you was pro masturbation um apparently he went on some like
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catholic show and he goes well you know and it doesn't cause me problems in this marriage and it
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didn't in my last three either that was hilarious maybe not the best argument i've heard about that
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boomer problem then the point being is like that would create like like i'm not the person coming
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here and saying i have total self-mastery right like clearly i don't have self-mastery around something
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like masturbation um thanks for telling the world welcome no no but what i'm saying is and with the
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reason i'm contrasting this yeah is i don't want people to think that i'm coming out here being like
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i'm the most masculine disciplined man who's ever existed yeah and that's why i never feel like crying
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or seeking emotional support as we have revealed in other podcast episodes you know kind of watch out
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for the ones who frame themselves as super masculine and often it comes out that you know
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or or super caring of women they're usually hiding something basically i'm starting the fatherhood
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chapter of my life we're not pregnant just yet but we've moved to the scottish highlands the reason
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why me and my ex split up is i told her to sit down and to write down like her goals and i wrote you
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know what i want to move to like a big city you will not find this kind of woman who will fit with
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this lifestyle in a big major city why the women who are in the big cities are that glorified
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instagram prostitution i actually want to have a few like sleepless nights i want to have a few like
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sleep deprived nights where i stay up late bro for the last few years i've went to sleep at 7 8 p.m
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i've you couldn't imagine the amount of like parties and social events and dinners that i've missed
00:21:47.140
and know what goes on in these parties and the issue was that the girls that i was meeting from these
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places just like i i was as well we're all low quality it's a low quality place to be i wanted
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to be super social i wanted to have some late nights where we stay up and we're social and there's a
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party that we go to and everything but she saw it and i'm not gonna lie like i could see how like
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offended she was where she was quite like pressuring she was like wait you want to do this oh you want
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to do that you want to stay up late but that's unhealthy those party girls like the party low quality
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degenerate tiktok type of girls they are attracted to the party low quality degenerate tiktok type of
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guys fine like trash can stay with trash because for hers she wrote that she wanted to do more of
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the things that we were currently doing it's wholesome and you know that she's an awesome
00:22:28.980
girl for that she doesn't want to be around like you know like party girls and whatever i just
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realized like we're actually going into two separate seasons right now fine like trash can stay
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with trash this is gonna sound weird you need to be hit in the face i will repeat that again as a
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young man you need to be hit in the face consistently yeah but the point i'm making here
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okay is i am not that i am not trying to signal that i am not here saying i never really feel
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like crying in front of my wife because i'm tough i'm just like if you do not allow society to brainwash
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you around this stuff it's gonna be like a complete non-issue for you it's gonna be like oh why would i
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even think about doing that right unless you are born with some sort of unusual biology and here
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what i mean is obviously people are born with different biologies some men are born perceiving
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the world more like women some men are born you know more cry than other people you know some men
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what about men who go on estrogen really yeah and and culturally you know it's there might be
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differences there might be some cultural groups but i just might be from a cultural group where men
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almost never cry and it's just not even something we would consider yeah scots-irish doesn't strike me
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as a cry friendly well the funny thing is i remember my parents growing up you know they
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were very bought into the urban monoculture they were very like oh you know you should cry when you
00:23:47.740
need to cry you should really they were never like you seem like your parents well they were they they
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were like well you know we may not do it but like we know don't don't and my dad also not a
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particularly masculine guy i've never seen him cry well yeah actually he's a lot like you like he may
00:24:08.240
he doesn't he never tries to front masculinity but he like saved that entire ship full of people in a
00:24:13.400
giant storm and stuff yeah that's actually pretty cool he won uh the the coast guard medal in an
00:24:17.940
american like medal of something that's one of the first people to do a class five rapid in south
00:24:24.580
america on the bobo yeah i mean he did a lot of crazy things but he doesn't front and he doesn't
00:24:30.300
come off as like yeah you wouldn't know he pulled like a kennedy like going out in a storm and saving
00:24:36.260
everyone on a boat and you wouldn't know he like yeah you need to talk him through this and he's like
00:24:40.640
oh yeah that one time i saved the the boat in the middle of the storm yeah and and and you hear these
00:24:46.640
stories but they're not like a big part of how he contextualizes himself not a no it's like this is the
00:24:52.740
stuff i learned like seven years into our relationship really and it's not that he doesn't
00:24:57.220
try to he really tries hard to frame himself as like the erudite erudite and and and yes and in
00:25:03.160
that he everything will be about oh how i did x and i went and saw x and yeah so it's not like he
00:25:08.560
doesn't front he fronts just not he fronts he just never considers natural masculinity masculine even
00:25:15.160
if he's done a bunch of like big masculine things and that is interesting as well that that
00:25:22.280
people and people like him can be desperate to be seen a certain way yeah and from and he is
00:25:28.720
like hungrily desperate in a way that comes across as not positive but you know he doesn't need to
00:25:35.880
you're watching this michael we love you he's not watching it he watches like one of our episodes
00:25:40.580
every month okay i don't have to watch that but the the point i'm making is and he knows it you know
00:25:46.680
i tell him this i've told him it's really the kid i was like bro like stop trying to get people to
00:25:51.000
see you this way like it's not like positive but a lot of people from his generation just have this
00:25:57.040
drive to be seen in a certain way yeah when in our in every generate come on but the reason why this is
00:26:03.520
relevant to this conversation is despite this drive to be seen not as masculine but like it's this
00:26:10.420
erudite intellectual which was in his generation would have been an incredibly emotionally sensitive
00:26:15.120
position he's never really indulged in that around me and i think it's because of a lack of a
00:26:20.780
biological drive to not because he's masculine or because he wants to seem masculine he just never
00:26:27.940
felt that impulse and i think that you were right at the beginning of this that that impulse when guys do
00:26:33.360
that for their girlfriends and they show this vulnerability it's mostly contrived
00:26:37.800
it's not an emotion they're really feeling it's an emotion that they cultivated it to signal something
00:26:46.340
to their partner that they think their partner wants to see in them or some iteration of like well real
00:26:52.820
men cry i'm a real man therefore i'm gonna cry right i'm i'm so masculine i can show my vulnerabilities
00:26:59.780
when i just don't think that and this is i guess also what i mean is psychological framing and
00:27:06.960
just in our society we're not really told how to be masculine or anything like that you know it's
00:27:10.240
like a a version of feminine i guess i'd say like it my intuition around vulnerability is it's just not
00:27:19.740
something i would indulge it like if i am focused on my vulnerability like maybe my family's financial
00:27:26.680
insecurity you know we don't have a job right now that's bringing in money sign up for the patreon you
00:27:31.680
know when you know huge thanks to everyone who has chosen it's really cool like um for all but we
00:27:36.600
don't we don't you know we don't there's a lot of things that i could be worried about but like if
00:27:40.840
i come to you like crying about that or acting emotionally vulnerable about that i am doing
00:27:47.080
nothing to achieve the security that my family requires right like i and and my family does require
00:27:53.820
it and i am responsible for it so if i go to you and i'm in this state of like emotional indulgence
00:28:00.080
you're gonna look at me and be like okay well now we're really screwed because now i need to find
00:28:06.100
out how to handle the family financially well you're not in this by yourself friend i know i'm not in this
00:28:12.640
by myself but i don't abdicate all responsibility for you to you yeah yeah yeah like to make it to make
00:28:18.900
me feel like it was all on me would be terrible yeah and i think if i came to you crying about it you
00:28:25.240
would feel that way you'd have to say like oh yeah i'd be like well i guess i have to figure this
00:28:29.360
out by myself through this you know why would that not make somebody leave you right yeah yeah i'm well
00:28:36.580
but if i went to you would you feel the same way if i did that to you because it is my responsibility
00:28:43.160
and i think every man wants it to be their responsibility no man wants to be in a relationship
00:28:48.000
where they their partner doesn't feel safe coming to them and being like hey because keep in mind at the
00:28:54.000
end of the day the decisions in where we are is downstream of my leadership and my decisions
00:28:59.120
so when my partner comes to me and they're like hey you know i i'm really concerned about like this
00:29:06.260
direction we're heading and everything like that and i feel a lot of vulnerability and am i safe
00:29:09.900
you know it's a bit like a crew coming to the captain and saying this there's a big difference
00:29:14.280
between the crew coming to the captain and saying like you don't like the captain coming to the
00:29:18.960
crew like i don't know if we're gonna hit land i don't know if we're gonna have enough food until
00:29:24.520
we hit land i don't know if we have enough you know to like the captain coming down with to the
00:29:29.060
crew and being like i don't know if we have enough i don't know where land we are out of life you all
00:29:35.160
are gonna get scurvy and die horribly and no that's a very different scenario yeah and it's because
00:29:42.680
you know and these guys they want to take on this captain role they do so most of them do i think
00:29:48.480
right and most of their their partners want them to take it on and they haven't really thought
00:29:52.520
through what it means for the captain to go to the crew be like guys i'm you know for a captain to go
00:29:58.380
to the crew and be like hey i'm actually though what if this is a generational thing what if younger
00:30:04.320
people because we've seen just almost logarithmic levels of evangelization what if younger men actually
00:30:11.500
want a mommy and the problem is that this is happening with you maybe some do but i mean
00:30:17.320
the point i was making here is is is the captain going to the the crew and being like hey you know
00:30:22.720
food is scarce i i've done the math i don't i don't know if we're gonna make it to shore on time so
00:30:28.520
you know this seems like the best course we could take to to get there that's what i'm like when i
00:30:34.100
come to you is vulnerability me coming to the crew and being like i just don't know like i i i didn't
00:30:41.100
mean for you guys to all not have enough food i just was trying my best it's not something the
00:30:47.920
crew wants to hear no and you've taken on this role of captain of other people's lives and you
00:30:54.840
know maybe that's part of you know like you're saying there is that a lot of young men do not
00:30:58.780
want to take on the role of captain of of their local you know partnership or whatever you know
00:31:04.640
yeah yeah that that that could be another thing going on so theory one this is women asking for
00:31:12.440
men to show signals that men aren't even they never needed to show that they're not comfortable
00:31:16.460
showing and then when they try to either fake it or kind of make it happen naturally everything
00:31:22.060
falls apart because intuitively this is just a huge alarm bell for women on an instinctual deep
00:31:27.620
evolved level but then the other thing could just be yeah that more men
00:31:31.760
really don't want to be leaders or captains and women are not here for that which could also explain
00:31:41.020
why there's even more content now about i don't know there's some name that women are using for this
00:31:48.220
like being a like the the mom to their like having a man child or something being the mom to their
00:31:56.940
partner like doing everything for him and feeling like great now i just have to take care of two people
00:32:01.300
instead of one i think part of this is the way women contextualize things you could contextualize
00:32:05.700
yourself as being like my mom you do the cleanup often you cook me food often i your laundry i do all
00:32:13.060
the dishes i do the cookout are you not clean the house you wanted to see yourself as my mom
00:32:18.760
you could no i guess like it i still think that's fairly normative for women i think where the
00:32:26.060
difference is and where it's too far for women is where the men don't also then in turn be like well
00:32:32.440
and the buck stops with me when it comes to income financial stability etc like leadership yeah like
00:32:39.580
our future yeah okay and i think the problem is that many of the women who complain about this
00:32:45.160
really aren't in that position and this this shows up even in pop culture like obviously a lot of
00:32:50.520
people have been commenting on the relationships in the secret lives of mormon lives which i think
00:32:56.900
had like another season come out or something and like one of them you know is trying to be sort of
00:33:02.940
this you know tradish not really but like you know mormon influencer but like i think while her husband was
00:33:09.860
going through medical school she was paying all the bills and everything but he was still trying to be
00:33:13.740
like well i'm calling the shots and you know that like i think we're just seeing too many examples of
00:33:18.520
that in media where hey like like that's not a bad thing people used to do this the wife yeah take
00:33:24.720
turns with school and everything but like it the relationship does become unstable if the woman is
00:33:31.440
doing like if she's pregnant having kids bringing in all the income maybe cooking and cleaning as well
00:33:37.080
like that gets that gets wrong korean or japanese relationship this is why women don't want to get
00:33:45.600
this is why there's a failure to thrive over there they're not having kids the men are like you're
00:33:50.500
gonna do what i tell you to i know you're gonna no we they don't have a structure for this and this is
00:33:55.320
why i think building a structure for what in masculinity looks like why it's important to have these
00:33:59.640
conversations as sort of like a you know you can do a lot of things you even bring in you know the
00:34:05.960
majority of our income i'd argue and provide more in terms of economic stability than i do
00:34:11.260
no that wouldn't come were it not for the systems that you set up right like our dynamic is you do
00:34:16.880
the thinking and i make it happen but like the the making it happen part means nothing when there's
00:34:21.640
nothing for me to make well i'd argue that you'd be financially stable if i'd never met you
00:34:25.840
i would be absolutely but like that and again that's why many women remain single but the the point
00:34:32.100
here being is that you know you do not follow me because of and this is one of the problems that you see
00:34:39.640
in korea and japan style masculinity the woman does everything the woman makes the money and then the
00:34:44.800
man bosses her around right yeah and they're like and then the man shoulders the burden of the family
00:34:51.460
and the future and does what he can to try to protect the wife emotionally speaking which is i'm sure
00:34:58.580
at least to an extent how you feel was in this family and and and you know i i do do you know a
00:35:04.840
degree of child care in terms of the old degree until i mean they'll think you took the kids to
00:35:10.840
the birthday party this weekend who spent every light in line serve the day with them playing with
00:35:17.960
yeah but they're you know really good kids you know but i already see it in the boys you know they
00:35:23.600
don't really like the older ones don't cry as much anymore like men stop crying i think at a fairly
00:35:27.980
young age and and we as a society somehow contextualize that as bad and it's not bad it's normal
00:35:35.160
yeah yeah and and and a man not crying and i think that this is also really important stereotype to break
00:35:43.960
and not being emotionally vulnerable is not the man being a steel wall or being your typical overly stern
00:35:51.760
whatever like you guys know me you see i am not overly stern or lacking in emotion or lacking in
00:36:00.260
emotional expression or you know somebody who's deeply trying to control everything you know i'm i'm
00:36:07.300
well i guess i do have a large degree of emotional control that i i believe i have a duty for but i'm
00:36:12.500
not you know the the stereotype of the rigid you know thin-lipped whatever right you're not the classic
00:36:19.140
maintain frame red pillar we'll say yeah i do think it's interesting that well one it's important
00:36:25.540
to recognize that men and women express and process emotions differently and also have very different
00:36:29.820
hormonal profiles which really affects emotional output but two you pointed out and i think this is
00:36:36.540
true that like across cultures and like probably based like based on your genetic inheritance you are
00:36:42.180
going to have different ways of processing emotion and i wonder which cultures involve men crying the most
00:36:48.640
chiming in the content or comments if you have a an idea there yeah i'd be interested to know
00:36:55.480
what would you guess i'm gonna guess like muslim cultures the cultures where you have strict
00:37:01.060
hierarchy between individuals well and also where men and women are more isolated from each other
00:37:05.640
so i feel like in such environments you wouldn't need to as as as ardently evolve that emotional
00:37:14.480
maturity because in like men aren't crying in front of women you know they're crying in front of men
00:37:19.880
yeah theoretically because they're in men's spaces and another thing i note about myself that people may
00:37:24.700
be getting wrong here is i am not a particularly tough guy i am you know when i when i get hurt or i i am
00:37:32.200
i am definitely less have less endurance than you have well what's your your percentile for pain
00:37:37.740
tolerance is like it's like zero percent zero percent and i'm in the 99th percent i should
00:37:42.280
clarify here that we're speaking off of full genome sequences i am in the 99th percentile in terms of
00:37:47.360
pain sensitivity and simone is in the bottom one percentile in terms of pain sensitivity so yeah i
00:37:52.180
mean again i think that goes to show that your genetic inheritance is going to affect how you process
00:37:56.380
yeah but again the point i'm making here is this isn't either me being like i am super good at like
00:38:01.600
we're you know you're still stealing myself against pain or anything you're not you're not saying
00:38:07.100
anything yeah you're not like look at me i'm yeah i'm i'm a complete wuss when it comes to pain
00:38:12.740
i don't i don't want pain i don't like pain but pain is not good get it get it away i am i'm not
00:38:18.580
gonna subject myself to pain for no reason you know no just show how tough i am the guy who puts a
00:38:25.420
cigarette out in his hand or something i'd be like yeah oh what though yeah but i really i think people
00:38:31.640
who do that for real just don't feel it the way you would feel it yeah i think pain tolerance isn't
00:38:39.660
about ability to emotionally process pain i think it's literally about what you're able to feel
00:38:43.960
period anyway love you to death the mom interesting episode i think it's not talked about is what does
00:38:50.880
masculinity mean in our society and what's normative for masculinity and i think i'm a great person to
00:38:56.120
show this because i'm talking about my own internal subjective experience which i think is
00:39:00.680
lightly more insulated from urban monoculture than other people's just due to my natural arrogance
00:39:06.080
and this can give you an idea of even what an effeminate guy's insulated experience around
00:39:12.360
emotional vulnerability is yeah and i came away with a better understanding or at least hypothesis as to
00:39:18.920
why women are so instantly disgusted and turned off by men expressing personal vulnerability well
00:39:27.280
would you be turned off if you saw me like come to you emotionally vulnerable like and try to model
00:39:32.720
yourself how would you feel about that depends on what it would be about like sometimes people just
00:39:38.540
like if you were injured you're crying i'd get it man but yeah i think it depends on what the
00:39:46.020
implications are for me and our family's safety if that makes sense and i think that's where a lot
00:39:53.220
of people do you remember how much i'm a pussy i was about getting the the blood drawn thing oh no
00:40:00.260
got around me to push the thing i remember how like whenever you get a shot if i'm there i just bite
00:40:05.440
your other shoulder and it works really well you're cute so i think it's a lot of it's just an ick
00:40:10.660
thing for you with needles not necessarily about the pain because i'm i'm inflicting more pain on
00:40:16.000
you true but i don't like i don't like yeah but i'm just like not that masculine around this stuff
00:40:21.860
that's why i think it's really interesting to use myself as the metric here yeah yes yes yes well and
00:40:29.400
you know i learned not too long ago that the concept of toxic masculinity was to describe actually
00:40:39.160
reactionism against sort of anti-male bias so sort of men acting out against society not allowing them
00:40:47.240
to just be normal men so it wasn't just like oh natural masculinity is toxic it was more like almost
00:40:54.420
performative reactive masculine which i think is what a lot of toxic masculinity really is
00:41:00.820
formative signaling that's not actually masculine being overly tough or cruel to a woman instead of the
00:41:06.760
woman's protector uh-huh uh-huh and i i think yeah i that kind of blew my mind i was like oh crap so
00:41:12.860
like it's not natural masculinity it's it's contrived masculinity in response to society going too far
00:41:18.900
with feminization and that yeah i thought that was super fascinating so i love you to decimum love you too
00:41:25.680
gorgeous it was fun thank you well i was just looking at the anime images from the our premium patreon
00:41:34.620
with them me too i love those for the stories they're so cute it makes me wish that there was
00:41:39.720
a manga that i could read just you know per sub stack we're also going to be releasing these but
00:41:43.980
we're releasing them on weekends on sub stack or is they're all already released on patreon what
00:41:48.100
simone is referring to here is we have four stories up now that i created partially playing through ai's
00:41:53.300
to you know explore various types of izakai worlds and they're i find them to be very entertaining
00:42:00.020
they're in audiobook form and she created title cards for them it was just you know we don't want
00:42:05.780
to flood you if you're a sub stack person with like five different stories all in one weekend so
00:42:11.160
the idea is is that we we give them to you slowly whereas for patreon it just makes sense to bundle
00:42:15.460
the upload this is not a sub stack like i like patreon fantasy fiction audiobooks that you're making
00:42:23.440
available we we listen or at least i listened to a bunch of them when we took a family vacation
00:42:29.400
it was so fun yeah we've got four now four books that you can listen to if you want to well that's in
00:42:36.600
addition to all the pragmatist guides being free to paid subscribers i guess technically free but
00:42:42.620
all the audiobooks and ebooks you can just immediately download them if you are paid subscriber plus our
00:42:48.480
albums i put i separated out the one just the general like glitch hop album that's available
00:42:55.160
for everyone like paid or not as a fun thing to download but also then the premium base camp songs
00:43:01.300
i separated out from the future day songs so we just have a separate future day techno puritan album
00:43:06.840
which i want to attend to because some of them are so cute i mean they're all cute but like i really
00:43:12.340
like the one that's like country style hey kids you know is this about future day yeah
00:43:19.140
let's promise to make a brighter place for every heart in this human race
00:43:27.220
our visions of tomorrow shine so bright together we can make it right
00:43:37.800
science magic take the flight imagination is our guiding light
00:43:47.520
it's that's hilarious so the rfab project the reality fabricator like ai storyteller
00:43:54.140
yeah we're like i basically was like we need to to the team the ui is not not up to snuff it is it is
00:44:01.400
very unstable it is very difficult to use and so you know i got to this first point where i'm like
00:44:06.380
we need to see if we need to remake this and so what they're going to do is they're going to do
00:44:09.860
two things the team is going to take this and try to make the existing system downloadable to see if
00:44:15.560
that fixes the issue and make it text first to see if that fixes the issue and then bruno's going to
00:44:20.420
try to create a web first version of this nice if that fixes the issue and basically and then i'm
00:44:26.100
going to test the app against the web first and see which does better and my intuition is that the
00:44:31.060
web first is going to do better and it was i mean the reason we did the app to begin with is so we
00:44:35.260
could sell it on steam but i don't know if it was ever really that good for the steam community to
00:44:40.020
begin with given that it's written based and that a lot of the visuals were sort of shoehorned in for
00:44:45.560
investors and stuff and that we should really focus on just creating really good immersive storytellers
00:44:50.820
and and world explorers that are text first and then all of the other stuff can come can come after
00:44:56.620
that i'm with you on that that that checks out for me i like that yeah be right this one indeed