Based Camp - Women Ask Men to Be Vulnerable Then Leave Them： Are Relationships Impossible？

00:00:00.000 hello simone i'm excited to be here with you today today we are going to be talking about men

00:00:04.980 crying and women leaving them or men going to women for emotional support and then women

00:00:11.320 getting the ick this has been an ongoing trend as as like a meme that goes around every now and

00:00:17.660 then within the red pill diaspora or even the original red pill or mgtow community back in the

00:00:22.980 day if somebody would be like well you know x girl said she wanted me to open up to her emotionally

00:00:29.600 or she wanted me to be vulnerable around her or a girl will say something like well you know why

00:00:34.960 why don't men ever like show their emotions or cry or whatever right and and then men are always like

00:00:41.640 well because i tried that once and the woman never talked to me again or forced me or like you know

00:00:47.920 over and over and over again you see these stories okay and so you know i understand why these go

00:00:53.800 viral is in the red pill community like my brain sees this and the first thought it has is that 0.90

00:00:58.720 so unfair i'm just picturing greta sunberg saying how

00:01:02.520 how dare you say this is what you want i tried and then what did you do you left me

00:01:09.920 it also sounds it seems kind of fake to me though so i'm i'm what do you mean fake do you not think

00:01:16.480 it really happens i'm sure men express themselves extremely flamboyantly all the time online and in

00:01:22.640 person like i i don't i don't ever i've never felt like men are withholding their emotions i feel like

00:01:28.080 what's actually happening here is women signaling maybe because they're seeing a therapist or something 0.98

00:01:34.160 that they expect a certain type of emotional vulnerability from their male partners like

00:01:40.500 remember how you were walking behind those elite people at that one conference we went to

00:01:43.740 yeah and they were like i would never date someone who wasn't seeing a therapist it could be

00:01:47.280 their therapist or kind of giving them by the way and then and so they're they're then communicating

00:01:53.440 to their boyfriends like well you have to be therapy speak insert um and then the men attempt to in a 1.00

00:02:01.320 very fake and contrived way open up and break down and i mean obviously they look like idiots because 0.98

00:02:07.480 they don't actually that's not how they feel and that might actually be a component of it i'm not gonna 0.92

00:02:13.060 lie i might feel like part of it because when i started like investigating my own experiences around

00:02:18.180 this right like the first thing i think is how dare women be that you know callous crazy yeah but then 1.00

00:02:26.380 then i then first thought is these women don't know that they don't want a guy to do this like 1.00

00:02:31.260 they're not trying to trick their boyfriends into crying in front of them or something no they

00:02:35.220 genuinely think that this is what they want because this is what they've been told what they want you

00:02:40.420 know they're not yeah and what they've been told and by whom exactly because this isn't stuff that

00:02:45.400 shows up for example in fantasy romance novels men opening up in a way where they become emotionally

00:02:51.300 vulnerable by crying does not happen in romance novels which are we important by the way which is

00:02:58.260 yeah this this is what women actually want the the monster effort section of the library doesn't 1.00

00:03:04.400 doesn't show up in that well no even like when i was a when i was younger i i loved historical

00:03:09.440 okay romance so like not that's not there were no monsters it was just always noble men because

00:03:15.500 they had to have money you know but then i i started to think about you know before i dated

00:03:20.280 simone and i was like well because another thing i thought when i heard this is i don't remember

00:03:24.840 having this problem i don't remember any girl ever leaving me because i opened myself up emotionally

00:03:30.380 to her and i never intentionally tried to emotionally guard myself when i was dating and i dated

00:03:35.420 a lot you were extremely transparent like from moment number one so i think you also edited out

00:03:41.320 anyone but i'm but i'm also from the perspective of a lot of guys whether they say simpy or effeminate

00:03:48.020 or whatever word they want to use you know i do not appear to be the archetype of masculinity

00:03:54.260 nor am or at least a generalist societal archetype i would argue i'm an archetype within my cultural

00:04:00.260 background we we were told one person noted that your neck wasn't wide enough but i don't know how

00:04:05.680 it could be any wider without you looking really weird they mean like a neck like that's all i can

00:04:10.720 imagine triangle neck yeah like what's his face who does the morning routines and has the most

00:04:15.400 kyphotic posture in the world he makes me so great the point i'm i'm making here right largely speaking

00:04:22.080 is is i i am i am couching what i'm about to say in a this is malcolm saying this you know malcolm

00:04:30.860 effeminate malcolm malcolm who's never tried to overly represent a form of masculinity sure yeah

00:04:36.760 and i was i thought to myself i'd never had this problem then i searched my memory you know i've dated

00:04:42.680 a lot of girls you know as i've mentioned before i haven't mentioned in a long time on the podcast i

00:04:46.740 probably should like i've slept with over 100 women before i merged them out like i i i really 1.00

00:04:51.840 played the field for a long time and it was wrong and i'm not saying it's a good thing i did it

00:04:56.480 because i didn't have any other moral structure back then i was just like oh what is status for

00:05:00.840 men status is sleeping around so i'm gonna sleep around right and then eventually i got to a point

00:05:04.860 where i was like this is stupid well it was fun for you right i mean you look fun oh i i had fun but 0.94

00:05:10.100 more from a game perspective like i'm winning winning feels good look at what i'm winning yeah winning 0.98

00:05:15.960 winning feels good i i don't know if like like sex is fine but it's like not like once you do it a lot

00:05:22.760 with a lot of people it's like not that like it's like okay it's not like it gets worse like some

00:05:28.720 people are like oh again no it doesn't get worse it's just the you realize that you may have

00:05:33.180 misologized how good it is a bit but the point here being or or ignored the bad part the the smell

00:05:40.940 the shower afterwards the grossness you know etc is this stranger who you haven't vetted you're kind

00:05:47.040 of like where where have they been i guess they're hot you know what did i just put myself

00:05:52.580 we vetted everyone to an extent it wasn't like i was sleeping with strangers i wasn't like going to

00:05:57.340 bars or something like like a good like quarter of the people i slept with were virgins when i slept 0.99

00:06:02.200 with them and i you know i had enough experience to tell the difference you know so it wasn't like i was

00:06:06.520 going after sluts i i was going after you know the nerds like that was my specialty is nerds but the 1.00

00:06:12.360 point i'm making here is so i searched my memory i'm like okay i never had a problem with this 0.55

00:06:16.040 and then i started to think did i ever cry in front of a girl did i ever look for like like show

00:06:22.440 emotional vulnerability to a girl did you like past malcolm responded to me in my head like i'm

00:06:28.160 modeling past malcolm and past malcolm's like why would you do that girls are for sex like oh he 1.00

00:06:34.440 so did well i guess i should have you ever cried in front of a like a your brother or a friend

00:06:42.500 like who's a guy maybe when i was a little kid and i got that doesn't count like little no like

00:06:48.120 not injury crying yeah but i i i'm again i'm couching all this and i'm not saying i didn't even realize

00:06:55.780 until i thought about it that i had never gone out and cried in front of a girl that i had never

00:07:02.560 gone out and cried in front of a friend or something like that that i had never wanted like

00:07:06.860 have you ever stopped yourself from crying in front of me alone but you cried alone yeah but it's

00:07:14.040 never over like sadness just like frustration no it's it's usually over like somebody else's

00:07:23.340 suffering or something that i need to fix in the world or you know the beauty of something well

00:07:29.800 that's there's one form of crying that is manly and i think like at least the older ones of us can

00:07:35.700 all relate to it there was this commercial i think it was about trash where there's a crying

00:07:42.020 yeah and the single tear goes this man yeah and he's like his face is the most stoic facial expression

00:07:47.620 in the world and a single tear falls down his cheek and like that is the acceptable manly form like

00:07:53.060 it does that doesn't undermine your crying at all because it shows like you're in complete control

00:07:57.220 but you feel so much that one tear is able to make um no control but also keep in mind he is

00:08:05.000 crying over like when i said that i it's over like a world problems right which i guess also is manly

00:08:11.340 right because it shows that you are a leader you are responsible for a larger world like george bush

00:08:17.080 crying when he's looking at the katrina victims i remember this you know the idea of like when is it

00:08:22.460 appropriate to show vulnerability and emotion not as a man but but the wider personal stuff no but

00:08:29.020 like for the people that you lead or care about or represent as long as you don't show too much like

00:08:35.960 just a guilty but the point i'm trying to make here is this is me saying this not trying to front how

00:08:41.540 masculine i am yeah no you've never tried to look masculine it just never occurred to me

00:08:47.620 why i would want to do this and we're going to talk about this in a second but then also

00:08:52.300 in our relationship have i ever cried about anything did i cry when my mom died did i cry

00:08:57.360 no but i look when your mom died not only did you not cry you proceeded to host a lunch guests in new

00:09:05.260 york city and then a dinner party all the same day it was pre-brand i couldn't cancel it you know

00:09:11.000 most people would and like people kept being like when they when they found out because we didn't tell

00:09:15.300 them exactly right away they were like oh my god i mean i remember you looked like you were close to

00:09:20.440 crying that day and i just felt like i had to calm you down because you were like oh this is so bad

00:09:25.260 and i was like simone our kids are safe you know blah blah blah and i talked you through it and i

00:09:30.860 remember like the only thing i was thinking about when you told me was like oh i've got to make sure

00:09:35.180 simone feels comfortable because clearly she's really distressed but the larger point here being is even

00:09:41.000 with this even with me never really crying in our relationship even with me never really you know

00:09:46.100 any of this it was never and i don't think it ever felt to you like i intentionally was trying not to

00:09:51.160 show emotions to you i've i've definitely sat you down and talked about concerns i have about our

00:09:57.520 future whether it's financial concern no and there are times where yeah you just feel super worried but

00:10:02.640 often like when you do so you're sort of like man i'm like being you know sort of overtaken by this and

00:10:08.680 like to the point of it not being logical that i need to talk through it but the point i'm trying

00:10:14.080 to make here is i feel like what's actually happening here is even for men who aren't very

00:10:20.340 traditionally masculine crying is just not a common thing to do as an adult nor is seeking emotional

00:10:26.900 validation and i should note here that the form of crying that men get punished for is the type of

00:10:32.300 crying that seeks emotional validation or that is meant to portray a specific self-image

00:10:38.000 i guess we have to think like why was crying evolved i imagine it's to pull the heartstrings

00:10:42.960 of a parent and the caregiver so meant to tell mommy that you need resources right yeah yeah and so if

00:10:48.940 you are doing this to an adult and and and some women continue this into adulthood right and i think

00:10:55.340 the reason we see this behavior in some women in adulthood and not men is because for women it can 0.96

00:10:59.760 be a way to signal their youth and thus the number of childbearing years they have left they want to

00:11:05.160 show men actually i'm very young whereas a man doesn't need to signal that to women in the same

00:11:09.860 way a voice blue sexy baby thing isn't an act i don't know sexy baby i can't help in front or 0.98

00:11:18.740 attracted to me like that homeless guy he likes what he sees okay that could be for me isn't it

00:11:26.080 yes for her well and yeah i know i i really feel this and this is why i feel pretty strongly about that

00:11:32.460 theory because i really don't like crying like i know a bunch of people who are really afraid of

00:11:37.160 vomiting like two of my best friends in college had like a deep fear of vomiting like they would

00:11:41.740 not eat out so that they would just never have a risk yeah poisoning that level of fear and i think

00:11:47.840 i feel not that crazy but like close to crying i really hate crying and i've learned that the best way

00:11:56.500 to never cry is to know that when i am especially hormonally vulnerable to isolate myself which is why we

00:12:04.400 do the whole thing where when i give birth and clearly i'm going through a lot of hormonal nonsense

00:12:08.720 you drop me off at the hospital i deliver the baby i like post-d-section have to spend a couple

00:12:14.960 nights in the hospital and then when i'm out like okay like i'm collected but like it's really hard

00:12:21.420 like if and i don't cry almost at all unless like there's a nurse around asking me how i feel

00:12:27.600 because i i know that the only times i cry are if there's an audience that's in like a kind of

00:12:35.100 caregiving position that makes me feel somewhat vulnerable and then like this signaling thing

00:12:40.240 comes out where like because my body or mind knows it's in some form of distress it's like all right do

00:12:46.420 it and i think many women maybe it makes sense that women who are more likely to be in very vulnerable

00:12:52.520 positions like let's say you're in a roving clan or a tribe or something like that and you're pregnant 0.67

00:12:58.160 or you you've just delivered like you actually are much more dependent like you still are in a

00:13:03.000 slightly more childlike dependent state even as an adult because of that physical vulnerability

00:13:08.260 demonstrates use to an extent you know men yeah yes it's useful then yeah you're still crying so you

00:13:13.460 may not be a child but you still need someone you need to pull someone's heartstrings so you don't die

00:13:17.640 because you can't otherwise keep up with everyone due to your pregnancy or due to being postpartum or

00:13:22.440 something like that so and but i really i think that has to be it because there's such a strong

00:13:28.400 correlation at least for me between crying and there being audience and like if no one's around i am so

00:13:34.820 fine well this might also be why i haven't felt an intuition to do it because i don't feel the same type

00:13:41.480 of caregiver from you that i would feel from a mom right like you are somebody who supports me but

00:13:48.020 ultimately depends on me as are other women who i dated therefore i wouldn't cry right like why

00:13:55.540 it's like not some unidirectional caregiver relationship yeah which makes it you know make

00:14:02.340 more sense within that context and the point i was making earlier is that if you look at the ways

00:14:07.340 where it's okay for a man to cry yeah they are when it is not about self-vulnerability yeah when

00:14:12.960 it's certainly not the signaling type of crying yes it's you know you are crying for the sake of the

00:14:19.000 in a way it's about showing your responsibility yeah versus you know responsibility right right right

00:14:26.560 because it's not about you personally it's about yeah like you're only crying because you do make the

00:14:33.100 thing you're crying about your personal responsibility and that thing isn't you it's beyond

00:14:37.300 you and this may also explain why women when this does ultimately happen in the way where men are

00:14:42.720 crying for personal reasons so repulsive because it implies to women that those men must think those

00:14:49.080 women are the caregiver yes and that is the number one like of the least sexy things a man can do 1.00

00:14:56.440 to imply that the woman is the caregiver to signal that in any way explicitly or implicitly or through

00:15:03.860 body language and crying is a very probably a very clear form of that that yeah oh why did she 1.00

00:15:10.560 develop the ick when i called her mommy and put my head in her lap and cried right like yeah well maybe

00:15:15.820 because you shouldn't have signaled to her that she's your mommy right like well it's so it's also

00:15:20.900 like and this is exacerbated by there's this huge discussion online among women because i i can't

00:15:27.560 tell you how many podcasts and youtube episodes i've seen about this of one the research shows that

00:15:34.160 when in relationships women take on more like they do more work for for taking care of their husbands 1.00

00:15:40.040 and they do so like already women are taking this on and already now because of all this media

00:15:46.640 most women are aware of the fact that they're taking this burden on and then if a husband turns 1.00

00:15:51.180 around and is explicitly like yeah you're you're my mommy like or you're my caregiver that just that

00:15:57.480 but like snaps them they're like that's it because like at least they want to have this fantasy that

00:16:01.700 like well you know when it comes down to it though my husband provides the money and the security

00:16:06.460 when it comes down to it my husband's dominant and if that falls apart then like it's worth it 0.99

00:16:12.680 oh the whole heart falls apart yeah so like how how how are women the asshole then like at that 1.00

00:16:18.160 point right that makes it seem a lot they believe that they want something they don't actually want 0.99

00:16:22.540 they're like i want somebody i can be vulnerable in front of yeah because that's what they've been

00:16:26.900 told by therapist culture and you're you know and ask guys to you know think for themselves

00:16:32.440 like do you do you actually like do do you actually want somebody who you can be vulnerable

00:16:41.500 around i mean you can draw out the vulnerable side of you like anyone could do that but does

00:16:47.300 that feel good does that feel natural or is then just leaning into that help you in any way yeah

00:16:53.420 is i i think i don't like being vulnerable is that oh this is unfair that i can't turn to them

00:17:00.940 with my vulnerabilities yeah and what i would reflect back to me and keep in mind there are cultures

00:17:06.120 i will point out women don't necessarily want to be vulnerable and by choosing to not have kids and

00:17:11.680 by choosing to not put themselves in vulnerable positions women are signaling that in the modern 0.81

00:17:15.360 age women don't want to be in this position they don't want to be physically incapacitated by 1.00

00:17:21.260 pregnancy or postpartum periods okay i think like that's sort of tangential to the point the point

00:17:26.320 here is that a lot of men when they see these they're like how terrible is it that i can't go

00:17:34.600 to anybody when i'm having emotional distress and the way i would reframe this as you know you

00:17:42.480 frankly like when dad went to 7-eleven to get scratchers i guess he won because that was six years 0.78

00:17:49.020 ago which happens dad's leave no need to be a pussy about it here's what i need god you know but this 0.97

00:17:58.080 is unfortunately and i and i know our society doesn't tell you this emotional control should 0.96

00:18:04.460 really not be that hard as an adult male like and and i'm and i'm again this is the simp malcolm

00:18:11.740 this is effeminate malcolm telling you like i never even considered that i was controlling me

00:18:18.960 things about myself because i never thought about indulging in them right like i am not here saying

00:18:25.300 i am extra masculine i am saying that you are being primed to think that you need to do this thing

00:18:32.720 that is actually not good for you at all in the same way that we point out that you know people are

00:18:38.200 taught oh you need to let out anger and yet we know that like if you punch a wall it actually makes

00:18:42.640 you angry yeah like it's not gonna help pop psychologist stuff like indulge in an emotion for a short

00:18:48.680 period to release it no indulging for an emotion in a short period makes it louder it doesn't release

00:18:53.620 it that's not a no yeah redirecting your attention and recontextualizing what's happening to you

00:19:00.880 it's how you lower an emotion not indulging in it when this is one of these like pop psychology things

00:19:06.100 are oh you know real men cry who the made that up i'll tell you what it wasn't a man who said that

00:19:12.580 right like yeah it was some weird group that was trying to psyop men into making themselves look

00:19:19.100 like wusses in front of their their their partners right it's basically the way i right like it's

00:19:25.040 group that is like well of men acted more like women and and again the women do not realize that 0.94

00:19:30.200 this is not what they want no they're i mean well yeah and the women also you know like these are the 1.00

00:19:35.220 same people who are brainwashed into codependent relationships with their therapists i mean

00:19:39.520 yeah a lot of problems going on they've got a lot of problems going on but i mean the to start with

00:19:45.840 for you guys is just i mean i think that this is a part of the problem like this is not a

00:19:50.680 something that you are like you need to resist or something like i'd make an example here if i decided

00:19:56.720 that like i wasn't going to masturbate like that would be an enormous challenge for me i would be like 0.89

00:20:02.520 are you glad i'm not one of those those wives who are like you're not allowed so much of it online 0.99

00:20:08.320 recently yeah i mean the head of prager you was pro masturbation um apparently he went on some like 0.97

00:20:14.160 catholic show and he goes well you know and it doesn't cause me problems in this marriage and it 0.75

00:20:19.000 didn't in my last three either that was hilarious maybe not the best argument i've heard about that

00:20:24.600 boomer problem then the point being is like that would create like like i'm not the person coming

00:20:31.060 here and saying i have total self-mastery right like clearly i don't have self-mastery around something

00:20:36.020 like masturbation um thanks for telling the world welcome no no but what i'm saying is and with the 0.55

00:20:41.880 reason i'm contrasting this yeah is i don't want people to think that i'm coming out here being like 0.96

00:20:46.780 i'm the most masculine disciplined man who's ever existed yeah and that's why i never feel like crying

00:20:53.940 or seeking emotional support as we have revealed in other podcast episodes you know kind of watch out

00:20:59.540 for the ones who frame themselves as super masculine and often it comes out that you know

00:21:04.800 or or super caring of women they're usually hiding something basically i'm starting the fatherhood

00:21:10.540 chapter of my life we're not pregnant just yet but we've moved to the scottish highlands the reason

00:21:17.560 why me and my ex split up is i told her to sit down and to write down like her goals and i wrote you

00:21:22.840 know what i want to move to like a big city you will not find this kind of woman who will fit with 1.00

00:21:26.900 this lifestyle in a big major city why the women who are in the big cities are that glorified 1.00

00:21:32.320 instagram prostitution i actually want to have a few like sleepless nights i want to have a few like

00:21:37.840 sleep deprived nights where i stay up late bro for the last few years i've went to sleep at 7 8 p.m

00:21:42.900 i've you couldn't imagine the amount of like parties and social events and dinners that i've missed

00:21:47.140 and know what goes on in these parties and the issue was that the girls that i was meeting from these

00:21:52.420 places just like i i was as well we're all low quality it's a low quality place to be i wanted

00:21:57.800 to be super social i wanted to have some late nights where we stay up and we're social and there's a

00:22:01.820 party that we go to and everything but she saw it and i'm not gonna lie like i could see how like

00:22:05.920 offended she was where she was quite like pressuring she was like wait you want to do this oh you want 0.98

00:22:10.800 to do that you want to stay up late but that's unhealthy those party girls like the party low quality 1.00

00:22:15.500 degenerate tiktok type of girls they are attracted to the party low quality degenerate tiktok type of 1.00

00:22:21.260 guys fine like trash can stay with trash because for hers she wrote that she wanted to do more of 1.00

00:22:25.920 the things that we were currently doing it's wholesome and you know that she's an awesome 0.87

00:22:28.980 girl for that she doesn't want to be around like you know like party girls and whatever i just 1.00

00:22:33.080 realized like we're actually going into two separate seasons right now fine like trash can stay 0.99

00:22:37.380 with trash this is gonna sound weird you need to be hit in the face i will repeat that again as a 0.99

00:22:43.000 young man you need to be hit in the face consistently yeah but the point i'm making here 1.00

00:22:48.000 okay is i am not that i am not trying to signal that i am not here saying i never really feel 0.99

00:22:54.980 like crying in front of my wife because i'm tough i'm just like if you do not allow society to brainwash

00:23:00.780 you around this stuff it's gonna be like a complete non-issue for you it's gonna be like oh why would i

00:23:06.440 even think about doing that right unless you are born with some sort of unusual biology and here

00:23:12.900 what i mean is obviously people are born with different biologies some men are born perceiving

00:23:17.900 the world more like women some men are born you know more cry than other people you know some men 0.75

00:23:24.120 what about men who go on estrogen really yeah and and culturally you know it's there might be

00:23:30.240 differences there might be some cultural groups but i just might be from a cultural group where men

00:23:34.340 almost never cry and it's just not even something we would consider yeah scots-irish doesn't strike me

00:23:38.960 as a cry friendly well the funny thing is i remember my parents growing up you know they

00:23:44.220 were very bought into the urban monoculture they were very like oh you know you should cry when you

00:23:47.740 need to cry you should really they were never like you seem like your parents well they were they they

00:23:53.500 were like well you know we may not do it but like we know don't don't and my dad also not a

00:24:01.660 particularly masculine guy i've never seen him cry well yeah actually he's a lot like you like he may

00:24:08.240 he doesn't he never tries to front masculinity but he like saved that entire ship full of people in a

00:24:13.400 giant storm and stuff yeah that's actually pretty cool he won uh the the coast guard medal in an

00:24:17.940 american like medal of something that's one of the first people to do a class five rapid in south

00:24:24.580 america on the bobo yeah i mean he did a lot of crazy things but he doesn't front and he doesn't

00:24:30.300 come off as like yeah you wouldn't know he pulled like a kennedy like going out in a storm and saving

00:24:36.260 everyone on a boat and you wouldn't know he like yeah you need to talk him through this and he's like

00:24:40.640 oh yeah that one time i saved the the boat in the middle of the storm yeah and and and you hear these

00:24:46.640 stories but they're not like a big part of how he contextualizes himself not a no it's like this is the

00:24:52.740 stuff i learned like seven years into our relationship really and it's not that he doesn't

00:24:57.220 try to he really tries hard to frame himself as like the erudite erudite and and and yes and in

00:25:03.160 that he everything will be about oh how i did x and i went and saw x and yeah so it's not like he

00:25:08.560 doesn't front he fronts just not he fronts he just never considers natural masculinity masculine even

00:25:15.160 if he's done a bunch of like big masculine things and that is interesting as well that that

00:25:22.280 people and people like him can be desperate to be seen a certain way yeah and from and he is

00:25:28.720 like hungrily desperate in a way that comes across as not positive but you know he doesn't need to

00:25:35.880 you're watching this michael we love you he's not watching it he watches like one of our episodes

00:25:40.580 every month okay i don't have to watch that but the the point i'm making is and he knows it you know

00:25:46.680 i tell him this i've told him it's really the kid i was like bro like stop trying to get people to

00:25:51.000 see you this way like it's not like positive but a lot of people from his generation just have this

00:25:57.040 drive to be seen in a certain way yeah when in our in every generate come on but the reason why this is

00:26:03.520 relevant to this conversation is despite this drive to be seen not as masculine but like it's this

00:26:10.420 erudite intellectual which was in his generation would have been an incredibly emotionally sensitive

00:26:15.120 position he's never really indulged in that around me and i think it's because of a lack of a

00:26:20.780 biological drive to not because he's masculine or because he wants to seem masculine he just never

00:26:27.940 felt that impulse and i think that you were right at the beginning of this that that impulse when guys do

00:26:33.360 that for their girlfriends and they show this vulnerability it's mostly contrived

00:26:37.800 it's not an emotion they're really feeling it's an emotion that they cultivated it to signal something

00:26:46.340 to their partner that they think their partner wants to see in them or some iteration of like well real

00:26:52.820 men cry i'm a real man therefore i'm gonna cry right i'm i'm so masculine i can show my vulnerabilities

00:26:59.780 when i just don't think that and this is i guess also what i mean is psychological framing and

00:27:06.960 just in our society we're not really told how to be masculine or anything like that you know it's

00:27:10.240 like a a version of feminine i guess i'd say like it my intuition around vulnerability is it's just not

00:27:19.740 something i would indulge it like if i am focused on my vulnerability like maybe my family's financial

00:27:26.680 insecurity you know we don't have a job right now that's bringing in money sign up for the patreon you

00:27:31.680 know when you know huge thanks to everyone who has chosen it's really cool like um for all but we

00:27:36.600 don't we don't you know we don't there's a lot of things that i could be worried about but like if

00:27:40.840 i come to you like crying about that or acting emotionally vulnerable about that i am doing

00:27:47.080 nothing to achieve the security that my family requires right like i and and my family does require

00:27:53.820 it and i am responsible for it so if i go to you and i'm in this state of like emotional indulgence

00:28:00.080 you're gonna look at me and be like okay well now we're really screwed because now i need to find

00:28:06.100 out how to handle the family financially well you're not in this by yourself friend i know i'm not in this

00:28:12.640 by myself but i don't abdicate all responsibility for you to you yeah yeah yeah like to make it to make

00:28:18.900 me feel like it was all on me would be terrible yeah and i think if i came to you crying about it you

00:28:25.240 would feel that way you'd have to say like oh yeah i'd be like well i guess i have to figure this

00:28:29.360 out by myself through this you know why would that not make somebody leave you right yeah yeah i'm well

00:28:36.580 but if i went to you would you feel the same way if i did that to you because it is my responsibility

00:28:43.160 and i think every man wants it to be their responsibility no man wants to be in a relationship

00:28:48.000 where they their partner doesn't feel safe coming to them and being like hey because keep in mind at the

00:28:54.000 end of the day the decisions in where we are is downstream of my leadership and my decisions

00:28:59.120 so when my partner comes to me and they're like hey you know i i'm really concerned about like this

00:29:06.260 direction we're heading and everything like that and i feel a lot of vulnerability and am i safe

00:29:09.900 you know it's a bit like a crew coming to the captain and saying this there's a big difference

00:29:14.280 between the crew coming to the captain and saying like you don't like the captain coming to the

00:29:18.960 crew like i don't know if we're gonna hit land i don't know if we're gonna have enough food until

00:29:24.520 we hit land i don't know if we have enough you know to like the captain coming down with to the

00:29:29.060 crew and being like i don't know if we have enough i don't know where land we are out of life you all

00:29:35.160 are gonna get scurvy and die horribly and no that's a very different scenario yeah and it's because

00:29:42.680 you know and these guys they want to take on this captain role they do so most of them do i think

00:29:48.480 right and most of their their partners want them to take it on and they haven't really thought

00:29:52.520 through what it means for the captain to go to the crew be like guys i'm you know for a captain to go

00:29:58.380 to the crew and be like hey i'm actually though what if this is a generational thing what if younger

00:30:04.320 people because we've seen just almost logarithmic levels of evangelization what if younger men actually

00:30:11.500 want a mommy and the problem is that this is happening with you maybe some do but i mean

00:30:17.320 the point i was making here is is is the captain going to the the crew and being like hey you know

00:30:22.720 food is scarce i i've done the math i don't i don't know if we're gonna make it to shore on time so

00:30:28.520 you know this seems like the best course we could take to to get there that's what i'm like when i

00:30:34.100 come to you is vulnerability me coming to the crew and being like i just don't know like i i i didn't

00:30:41.100 mean for you guys to all not have enough food i just was trying my best it's not something the

00:30:47.920 crew wants to hear no and you've taken on this role of captain of other people's lives and you

00:30:54.840 know maybe that's part of you know like you're saying there is that a lot of young men do not

00:30:58.780 want to take on the role of captain of of their local you know partnership or whatever you know

00:31:04.640 yeah yeah that that that could be another thing going on so theory one this is women asking for 1.00

00:31:12.440 men to show signals that men aren't even they never needed to show that they're not comfortable

00:31:16.460 showing and then when they try to either fake it or kind of make it happen naturally everything

00:31:22.060 falls apart because intuitively this is just a huge alarm bell for women on an instinctual deep 0.95

00:31:27.620 evolved level but then the other thing could just be yeah that more men

00:31:31.760 really don't want to be leaders or captains and women are not here for that which could also explain 1.00

00:31:41.020 why there's even more content now about i don't know there's some name that women are using for this 1.00

00:31:48.220 like being a like the the mom to their like having a man child or something being the mom to their

00:31:56.940 partner like doing everything for him and feeling like great now i just have to take care of two people

00:32:01.300 instead of one i think part of this is the way women contextualize things you could contextualize 1.00

00:32:05.700 yourself as being like my mom you do the cleanup often you cook me food often i your laundry i do all

00:32:13.060 the dishes i do the cookout are you not clean the house you wanted to see yourself as my mom

00:32:18.760 you could no i guess like it i still think that's fairly normative for women i think where the 0.96

00:32:26.060 difference is and where it's too far for women is where the men don't also then in turn be like well 1.00

00:32:32.440 and the buck stops with me when it comes to income financial stability etc like leadership yeah like

00:32:39.580 our future yeah okay and i think the problem is that many of the women who complain about this 1.00

00:32:45.160 really aren't in that position and this this shows up even in pop culture like obviously a lot of

00:32:50.520 people have been commenting on the relationships in the secret lives of mormon lives which i think

00:32:56.900 had like another season come out or something and like one of them you know is trying to be sort of

00:33:02.940 this you know tradish not really but like you know mormon influencer but like i think while her husband was

00:33:09.860 going through medical school she was paying all the bills and everything but he was still trying to be

00:33:13.740 like well i'm calling the shots and you know that like i think we're just seeing too many examples of

00:33:18.520 that in media where hey like like that's not a bad thing people used to do this the wife yeah take 1.00

00:33:24.720 turns with school and everything but like it the relationship does become unstable if the woman is 0.99

00:33:31.440 doing like if she's pregnant having kids bringing in all the income maybe cooking and cleaning as well 1.00

00:33:37.080 like that gets that gets wrong korean or japanese relationship this is why women don't want to get 1.00

00:33:45.600 this is why there's a failure to thrive over there they're not having kids the men are like you're 1.00

00:33:50.500 gonna do what i tell you to i know you're gonna no we they don't have a structure for this and this is

00:33:55.320 why i think building a structure for what in masculinity looks like why it's important to have these

00:33:59.640 conversations as sort of like a you know you can do a lot of things you even bring in you know the

00:34:05.960 majority of our income i'd argue and provide more in terms of economic stability than i do

00:34:11.260 no that wouldn't come were it not for the systems that you set up right like our dynamic is you do

00:34:16.880 the thinking and i make it happen but like the the making it happen part means nothing when there's

00:34:21.640 nothing for me to make well i'd argue that you'd be financially stable if i'd never met you

00:34:25.840 i would be absolutely but like that and again that's why many women remain single but the the point 1.00

00:34:32.100 here being is that you know you do not follow me because of and this is one of the problems that you see

00:34:39.640 in korea and japan style masculinity the woman does everything the woman makes the money and then the 1.00

00:34:44.800 man bosses her around right yeah and they're like and then the man shoulders the burden of the family

00:34:51.460 and the future and does what he can to try to protect the wife emotionally speaking which is i'm sure

00:34:58.580 at least to an extent how you feel was in this family and and and you know i i do do you know a

00:35:04.840 degree of child care in terms of the old degree until i mean they'll think you took the kids to

00:35:10.840 the birthday party this weekend who spent every light in line serve the day with them playing with

00:35:17.960 yeah but they're you know really good kids you know but i already see it in the boys you know they

00:35:23.600 don't really like the older ones don't cry as much anymore like men stop crying i think at a fairly

00:35:27.980 young age and and we as a society somehow contextualize that as bad and it's not bad it's normal

00:35:35.160 yeah yeah and and and a man not crying and i think that this is also really important stereotype to break

00:35:43.960 and not being emotionally vulnerable is not the man being a steel wall or being your typical overly stern

00:35:51.760 whatever like you guys know me you see i am not overly stern or lacking in emotion or lacking in

00:36:00.260 emotional expression or you know somebody who's deeply trying to control everything you know i'm i'm

00:36:07.300 well i guess i do have a large degree of emotional control that i i believe i have a duty for but i'm

00:36:12.500 not you know the the stereotype of the rigid you know thin-lipped whatever right you're not the classic

00:36:19.140 maintain frame red pillar we'll say yeah i do think it's interesting that well one it's important

00:36:25.540 to recognize that men and women express and process emotions differently and also have very different

00:36:29.820 hormonal profiles which really affects emotional output but two you pointed out and i think this is

00:36:36.540 true that like across cultures and like probably based like based on your genetic inheritance you are

00:36:42.180 going to have different ways of processing emotion and i wonder which cultures involve men crying the most

00:36:48.640 chiming in the content or comments if you have a an idea there yeah i'd be interested to know

00:36:55.480 what would you guess i'm gonna guess like muslim cultures the cultures where you have strict

00:37:01.060 hierarchy between individuals well and also where men and women are more isolated from each other

00:37:05.640 so i feel like in such environments you wouldn't need to as as as ardently evolve that emotional

00:37:14.480 maturity because in like men aren't crying in front of women you know they're crying in front of men

00:37:19.880 yeah theoretically because they're in men's spaces and another thing i note about myself that people may

00:37:24.700 be getting wrong here is i am not a particularly tough guy i am you know when i when i get hurt or i i am

00:37:32.200 i am definitely less have less endurance than you have well what's your your percentile for pain

00:37:37.740 tolerance is like it's like zero percent zero percent and i'm in the 99th percent i should

00:37:42.280 clarify here that we're speaking off of full genome sequences i am in the 99th percentile in terms of

00:37:47.360 pain sensitivity and simone is in the bottom one percentile in terms of pain sensitivity so yeah i

00:37:52.180 mean again i think that goes to show that your genetic inheritance is going to affect how you process

00:37:56.380 yeah but again the point i'm making here is this isn't either me being like i am super good at like

00:38:01.600 we're you know you're still stealing myself against pain or anything you're not you're not saying

00:38:07.100 anything yeah you're not like look at me i'm yeah i'm i'm a complete wuss when it comes to pain

00:38:12.740 i don't i don't want pain i don't like pain but pain is not good get it get it away i am i'm not

00:38:18.580 gonna subject myself to pain for no reason you know no just show how tough i am the guy who puts a

00:38:25.420 cigarette out in his hand or something i'd be like yeah oh what though yeah but i really i think people

00:38:31.640 who do that for real just don't feel it the way you would feel it yeah i think pain tolerance isn't

00:38:39.660 about ability to emotionally process pain i think it's literally about what you're able to feel

00:38:43.960 period anyway love you to death the mom interesting episode i think it's not talked about is what does

00:38:50.880 masculinity mean in our society and what's normative for masculinity and i think i'm a great person to

00:38:56.120 show this because i'm talking about my own internal subjective experience which i think is

00:39:00.680 lightly more insulated from urban monoculture than other people's just due to my natural arrogance

00:39:06.080 and this can give you an idea of even what an effeminate guy's insulated experience around

00:39:12.360 emotional vulnerability is yeah and i came away with a better understanding or at least hypothesis as to

00:39:18.920 why women are so instantly disgusted and turned off by men expressing personal vulnerability well

00:39:27.280 would you be turned off if you saw me like come to you emotionally vulnerable like and try to model

00:39:32.720 yourself how would you feel about that depends on what it would be about like sometimes people just

00:39:38.540 like if you were injured you're crying i'd get it man but yeah i think it depends on what the

00:39:46.020 implications are for me and our family's safety if that makes sense and i think that's where a lot 0.98

00:39:53.220 of people do you remember how much i'm a pussy i was about getting the the blood drawn thing oh no 0.97

00:40:00.260 got around me to push the thing i remember how like whenever you get a shot if i'm there i just bite 0.98

00:40:05.440 your other shoulder and it works really well you're cute so i think it's a lot of it's just an ick

00:40:10.660 thing for you with needles not necessarily about the pain because i'm i'm inflicting more pain on

00:40:16.000 you true but i don't like i don't like yeah but i'm just like not that masculine around this stuff

00:40:21.860 that's why i think it's really interesting to use myself as the metric here yeah yes yes yes well and

00:40:29.400 you know i learned not too long ago that the concept of toxic masculinity was to describe actually

00:40:39.160 reactionism against sort of anti-male bias so sort of men acting out against society not allowing them

00:40:47.240 to just be normal men so it wasn't just like oh natural masculinity is toxic it was more like almost

00:40:54.420 performative reactive masculine which i think is what a lot of toxic masculinity really is

00:41:00.820 formative signaling that's not actually masculine being overly tough or cruel to a woman instead of the

00:41:06.760 woman's protector uh-huh uh-huh and i i think yeah i that kind of blew my mind i was like oh crap so

00:41:12.860 like it's not natural masculinity it's it's contrived masculinity in response to society going too far

00:41:18.900 with feminization and that yeah i thought that was super fascinating so i love you to decimum love you too

00:41:25.680 gorgeous it was fun thank you well i was just looking at the anime images from the our premium patreon

00:41:34.620 with them me too i love those for the stories they're so cute it makes me wish that there was

00:41:39.720 a manga that i could read just you know per sub stack we're also going to be releasing these but

00:41:43.980 we're releasing them on weekends on sub stack or is they're all already released on patreon what

00:41:48.100 simone is referring to here is we have four stories up now that i created partially playing through ai's

00:41:53.300 to you know explore various types of izakai worlds and they're i find them to be very entertaining

00:42:00.020 they're in audiobook form and she created title cards for them it was just you know we don't want

00:42:05.780 to flood you if you're a sub stack person with like five different stories all in one weekend so

00:42:11.160 the idea is is that we we give them to you slowly whereas for patreon it just makes sense to bundle

00:42:15.460 the upload this is not a sub stack like i like patreon fantasy fiction audiobooks that you're making

00:42:23.440 available we we listen or at least i listened to a bunch of them when we took a family vacation

00:42:29.400 it was so fun yeah we've got four now four books that you can listen to if you want to well that's in

00:42:36.600 addition to all the pragmatist guides being free to paid subscribers i guess technically free but

00:42:42.620 all the audiobooks and ebooks you can just immediately download them if you are paid subscriber plus our

00:42:48.480 albums i put i separated out the one just the general like glitch hop album that's available

00:42:55.160 for everyone like paid or not as a fun thing to download but also then the premium base camp songs

00:43:01.300 i separated out from the future day songs so we just have a separate future day techno puritan album

00:43:06.840 which i want to attend to because some of them are so cute i mean they're all cute but like i really

00:43:12.340 like the one that's like country style hey kids you know is this about future day yeah

00:43:19.140 let's promise to make a brighter place for every heart in this human race

00:43:27.220 our visions of tomorrow shine so bright together we can make it right

00:43:37.800 science magic take the flight imagination is our guiding light

00:43:47.520 it's that's hilarious so the rfab project the reality fabricator like ai storyteller

00:43:54.140 yeah we're like i basically was like we need to to the team the ui is not not up to snuff it is it is

00:44:01.400 very unstable it is very difficult to use and so you know i got to this first point where i'm like

00:44:06.380 we need to see if we need to remake this and so what they're going to do is they're going to do

00:44:09.860 two things the team is going to take this and try to make the existing system downloadable to see if

00:44:15.560 that fixes the issue and make it text first to see if that fixes the issue and then bruno's going to

00:44:20.420 try to create a web first version of this nice if that fixes the issue and basically and then i'm

00:44:26.100 going to test the app against the web first and see which does better and my intuition is that the

00:44:31.060 web first is going to do better and it was i mean the reason we did the app to begin with is so we

00:44:35.260 could sell it on steam but i don't know if it was ever really that good for the steam community to

00:44:40.020 begin with given that it's written based and that a lot of the visuals were sort of shoehorned in for

00:44:45.560 investors and stuff and that we should really focus on just creating really good immersive storytellers

00:44:50.820 and and world explorers that are text first and then all of the other stuff can come can come after

00:44:56.620 that i'm with you on that that that checks out for me i like that yeah be right this one indeed

00:45:04.500 prismet that would have been sales

00:45:08.300 bonus

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Based Camp - June 24, 2025

Women Ask Men to Be Vulnerable Then Leave Them： Are Relationships Impossible？

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