Based Camp - Women Prefer Submissive Roles in Relationships but Not in The Way You Think

00:00:00.000 the urban monoculture will not admit that men and women are different. And then it's like,

00:00:04.720 then explain trans people. And they're like, oh, what I meant is men and women are fundamentally

00:00:09.520 two totally different things. And you can easily tell which one you are just by how you perceive

00:00:12.900 reality. You know, you're not allowed to admit it in terms of partner dynamics or anything like

00:00:17.240 that. But then the urban monoculture cited so holistically was the feminist movement that a

00:00:22.160 anti-feminist bent has twisted the truth that women prefer subservient positions when they're

00:00:29.700 in a relationship with a male to women want a man to like tell them to shut up and get in the kitchen.

00:00:36.320 I'd be like, hey, you get your bitch ass back in the kitchen and make me some pie.

00:00:41.620 I am the commander of this house. Be quiet. Cook.

00:00:47.280 They're like, oh, so I just need to be like, that's what dominance is, right?

00:00:51.540 I'm just being a dumb asshole. Have you ever seen like a pickup artist in like real life?

00:00:56.580 So there is a bad point of data that a lot of red pill men get or a lot of like really sexually

00:01:02.040 active men get, which is slave women. I'll call them. Oh, yes. Okay. Do not confuse what arouses a

00:01:11.840 woman with what she wants from her daily life. All right. I am sure if you are a guy and you are

00:01:18.620 watching this, right? There are things on your computer and promise me something. My computer's

00:01:27.400 hard drive. I need you to, to dump it in the bathtub and fry it. All done. Please rest in peace, Satoru.

00:01:41.960 As a man, there are many things that may arouse you that you did not choose to have arouse you,

00:01:48.400 right? You don't want those things that arouse you to be part of your daily life at work or among

00:01:52.780 your friend group or, you know, in the way that you're raising your kids. Would you like to know

00:01:59.000 more? Hello, Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today. Today, we are going to be talking about

00:02:05.560 dominance and submissiveness as it relates to gender relationships in males and females and

00:02:12.320 where groups like the pickup artist and red pill community. Now, keep in mind, these are not

00:02:18.080 homogenous communities in terms of their viewpoints, but I would say many of the prevailing ideas within

00:02:23.340 these communities got these concepts wrong, which led to them making very big mistakes in terms of how

00:02:31.300 they were engaging with their partners, which ultimately led to unproductive, unhappy relationships

00:02:37.400 that broke apart. Absolutely. Now, I'm going to read a quote. A friend of mine wrote this sentence.

00:02:42.880 He said, there's a Bernian view that this creates an invisible ledger between men and women,

00:02:47.380 stereotypically where a woman can exchange sex for care and resources. And when he says Bernian,

00:02:54.740 I was looking up, well, what's, what's Bernianism, right? And so this is a quote on what Bernianism is.

00:02:59.440 The unit of social intercourse is called a transaction. If two or more people encounter

00:03:04.300 each other, sooner or later, one of them will speak or give some other indication of acknowledging

00:03:09.420 the presence of others. This is called the transactional stimulus. Another person will say

00:03:14.500 or do something which is in some way related to the stimulus. And that is called the transactional

00:03:20.600 response. The problem with this thesis is, and you see this across communities, they're like, okay,

00:03:26.720 women exchange sexual access for resources and protection, right? They're framed as the gatekeepers

00:03:34.420 of sex. They're, they're framed as the gatekeepers of sex in relation. And this framing is fundamentally

00:03:40.280 wrong because it sees men and women as sociologically, like in terms of their world perspectives and the

00:03:47.540 way that they process reality and the environment around them as pretty much exactly equal, except that

00:03:53.520 women, and I know they don't, they don't realize that this is what they're doing, but this is

00:03:57.660 functionally what, what, what the cause of making this assumption does, except that women are less

00:04:02.360 interested in sex than men and therefore are able to be sexual gatekeepers. However, and I'm just

00:04:08.520 talking all of the, like, like why women would be sexually less interested in them. And we don't need

00:04:11.680 to get into all the evolutionary theory here right now. I'm just pointing out that this is the way that

00:04:15.240 they see it. And it creates a misunderstanding because it isn't just this one domain where women's

00:04:21.400 perspectives on sexuality and the way that they relate to relationships is systemically different

00:04:26.640 from the way males relate to relationships. So we're going to get into some statistics on this, but

00:04:30.480 broadly speaking, how do I word this inoffensively? It is not a trade among people who are psychologically

00:04:39.600 the same in terms of how they relate to reality. Whereas women are often looking for somebody who,

00:04:49.820 I don't want to say like a worthy master, but like a, a, a person who they respect and see as above them

00:04:58.020 and who they see as trying to achieve something meaningful in the world that they can contribute

00:05:04.040 to. A good horse to hitch your wagon to. Right. But this is very different from the way that men often

00:05:11.600 see women as relating to dominance. Um, yeah, well, and that's, and I think that's why you see men

00:05:17.680 investing in things like fancy cars and preening by going to the gym and getting these muscles

00:05:26.220 because they think that if they can show, like I have the Rolex watch and I have the Maserati,

00:05:33.260 therefore she will think that I am resource rich. And that is it. Like, it's just, it boils things down

00:05:38.540 to a level of simplicity. That's pretty absurd. Whereas really what you're trying to say is women

00:05:43.520 aren't looking for like gold coins. They're the typical woman, unless she's a gold digger and literally

00:05:49.940 looking for your gold coins and kind of hoping that you'll die soon, or at least that she can kind of

00:05:54.880 live a separate life and not be bothered by you. Then she's really looking for, I guess it's, it's kind of

00:06:02.020 like the give a man a fish versus teach a man a fish. Like she wants that, that source, that constant

00:06:07.340 source of wealth and success in life. And that is by partnering yourself to someone who's a true leader,

00:06:12.940 who, if you live your life with them, will yield the security and meaning that you're looking for in

00:06:20.560 your life. I think women want to, and to a great extent, men to everyone, most people want to be able

00:06:26.940 to hitch themselves to a worthy cause. People find this through faith, through brand affiliation,

00:06:32.200 through employers, but also through partners. And women are looking for that in male partners more

00:06:36.940 than they're looking for gold coins. But this is, I think where, where, where people get it wrong was

00:06:42.380 concepts like hypergamy or something like that. They're like, well, women want men who are above

00:06:49.700 them in terms of competence and social status and everything like that. And it's like, okay, first,

00:06:55.020 both men and women typically target partners. There is a great study on this that we're going

00:06:58.800 to go into that shows that men actually target partners who are above them in terms of status

00:07:02.560 at an equal amount that women target potential partners that are above them. It's just that women

00:07:07.440 get those partners more frequently. But secondarily, why are women doing this and why are men doing this

00:07:13.760 are two different reasons. Women aren't doing it as some sort of like Machiavellian play. They're doing

00:07:21.360 it because they want to live their lives in service of something they believe that matters.

00:07:26.880 And they often, now, obviously there's differences in women. There's differences in men. You know,

00:07:30.860 some men are born male, male attracted. People are born with a variety of fetishes and arousal patterns

00:07:35.700 and everything like that. Right. I'm not arguing that, but I'm saying that predominantly the way that

00:07:42.000 female sexuality works, it is much more of a, and the way that long-term relationship structures have

00:07:48.580 worked historically, I want to help my partner become a big deal and achieve their goals.

00:07:55.640 Here I would note a cultural technology that's been very good at keeping women marrying men and

00:08:01.920 having lots of kids is to completely separate the domains in which women work and the domains in which

00:08:08.640 men work so that from the perspective of a woman, a man can always be higher than her in the domain

00:08:16.320 in which he focuses. A great example of this would be the Jewish Haradi communities where men spend all

00:08:22.920 day studying and women are in charge of both secular education, i.e. they have to learn about the real

00:08:28.820 world instead of the studying theology like the men do, making a living for the family, and raising

00:08:34.680 children. And people can be like, wow, that's putting a ton of work on the women. Why are women okay with

00:08:41.040 this? And in part, it's because they are trying to support a man in doing something they see as

00:08:47.000 genuinely worthwhile, which is dedicating himself to a life of theological study.

00:08:51.500 Yeah. Well, and be affiliated with them. I think if we were to try to, would it be fair to frame this

00:08:57.600 in more male terms to ask a male, if you are a mercenary in an army and some greater military leader

00:09:05.520 comes up and is taking on mercenaries, wouldn't you want to join his band of warriors and not be on,

00:09:12.980 you know, the band you're on? And that's, I think, what female hypergamy is like. Imagine.

00:09:20.220 No, I think that's a misunderstanding of it because that implies that there isn't like a vested

00:09:24.960 relationship. You don't think that military bands have vested relationships with each other?

00:09:30.600 No, but the way that you are wording it implies that a mercenary would do that. And most mercenaries

00:09:36.340 wouldn't do that. And most women wouldn't do that. And that's the point I'm making.

00:09:39.480 I don't know. No, here's the thing though. And I think this is a really important point is that

00:09:43.400 this whole red pillar thing, they just think that it's all about showing that you have resources and

00:09:48.580 then maintaining frame, you know, being this tough guy and, you know, go in the kitchen,

00:09:52.860 make me a sandwich woman, et cetera. Right. Like being kind of misogynistic and like being like,

00:09:56.680 oh, I'm so tough and proud. And I think that there are also male and female military leaders

00:10:02.660 that are like that, that are like, oh, I'm going to maintain frame. I'm going to be really tough.

00:10:06.120 I'm going to be really mean. And they don't realize that a good, there are amazing military

00:10:14.940 leaders. And what, what the real good military leaders and what men will ditch an existing band

00:10:20.780 to join is a military leader who has a vision, who will sacrifice themselves in the name of their

00:10:28.160 team, who will, you know, you, you see this throughout military history, those people who

00:10:33.080 are on the front lines, who are writing, you know, in, in the very first charge at the front,

00:10:38.980 putting themselves on the line. These, these, this is the type of man also that women are looking for.

00:10:44.000 It's not the go in the kitchen to make a sandwich. It's a man who has a vision who yes,

00:10:53.520 absolutely is dominant, but dominant because he, he has natural superiority and is willing to put

00:11:01.040 himself in front of everything. An example that Simone gave me after we recorded this

00:11:06.880 was in the movie Gladiator. Would you rather follow the main character Maximus as a man going

00:11:14.040 into battle, or would you rather follow Commodus? It's, Commodus clearly acts dominant in a way.

00:11:20.660 And I see that many red pillars, when they try to act dominant, act dominant in the way that Commodus

00:11:27.560 acts dominant to his subordinates instead of in the way that Maximus acts dominant to his subordinates.

00:11:33.360 And obviously you wouldn't want to choose to follow Commodus if you could choose between the two.

00:11:38.880 So you can look at somebody like Andrew Tate, who constantly needs to talk down about his

00:11:45.340 subordinates, talk down about the women in his life who serve under him. That's very much a Commodus

00:11:51.220 thing to do. He believes that he is bolstering his own public image and looks better through degrading

00:11:58.520 and talking down about the people who have dedicated their lives to serving him. Whereas if you were

00:12:04.040 looking at somebody like Maximus, you would never see him do that. He would never talk down about the

00:12:08.600 people serving him. He sees it as an honor that these people would spend their lives serving him.

00:12:16.200 It's a completely different way of relating to your subordinates. And I think that this Commodus

00:12:22.040 way of acting dominant fundamentally belies an internal insecurity and lack of confidence in

00:12:29.880 yourself, which is intensely unattractive to women. When you feel you need to use performative dominance

00:12:38.280 towards the people who are making sacrifices to serve your mission, it doesn't make people think,

00:12:44.920 oh, that's an extra dominant guy. It makes people think, oh, that's a guy who's compensating because

00:12:50.840 he doesn't feel dominant enough. So he needs to constantly signal it to people in his environment,

00:12:55.640 which makes them look like the antithesis of dominance. And if you don't believe this Andrew

00:13:01.000 Tate Commodus comparison in terms of the type of dominance he exudes, I am going to play a clip of

00:13:06.920 Andrew Tate. And it is just exactly what Commodus would say if he was reborn in modern times.

00:13:14.120 And it also is exactly the way Commodus looked upon his subordinates, the way that Andrew Tate

00:13:20.520 looks upon the women who have chosen to spend their lives supporting him.

00:13:24.280 I guarantee you don't walk around your house with a sword because you're not a commander.

00:13:31.400 I'm a commander. You know, like when you command the troops into battle. So I walk around my house

00:13:36.280 with a sword and I make threats, like old school threats, like I will run you through.

00:13:41.640 I'm that guy who does whatever he wants. If you're unhappy with it, if you're unhappy with waiting

00:13:47.320 for me to light a cigar, then leave the channel. I don't give a fuck about you. You're a peasant.

00:13:51.480 You're a peon. You're a brokie. I do as I please. I've analyzed the entire earth, all of it. So I like

00:13:58.680 women. But females are barely sentient. Even the good ones. In fact, especially the good ones. And the

00:14:06.120 point is, when I say barely sentient, is that the female's entire life process from head to toe,

00:14:11.960 she never really thinks for herself. My four wives are sitting there. They've seen on the news

00:14:18.520 there's a new deadly contagion. I pick up my sword. I am the commander of this house. I decide if there's

00:14:26.120 a contagion. I decide what I do. Be quiet. Cook. You've got your sword. Your wife starts talking.

00:14:33.480 You're like, shut up. She's got a sword.

00:14:38.600 And I think that this is really important and a key thing that's missed is that people in these

00:14:43.880 communities think the key angle of dominance that they need to demonstrate to a woman is to the woman

00:14:50.920 instead of to society. The woman is not looking for a man who dominates her necessarily. She is

00:14:58.840 looking for a man that dominates society so that she can choose to follow that person. And I think that

00:15:06.440 with your money analogy, you made a really good point here in terms of the type of women that you

00:15:11.160 attract if you're using one of these strategies. There are no women out there who literally view life

00:15:18.360 as a, I give you sexual access, you give me money. Yeah, they're out there.

00:15:22.680 They have, you know, like long nails. They've got to look to them. They've got to, you know what I'm

00:15:29.880 talking about, right? Like they look kind of like trashy women. There are even non trashy women,

00:15:35.960 looking women who absolutely do the sex for resources thing. It's a pervasive view.

00:15:42.200 But these women are not positive relationship models, either for you or them within a modern

00:15:49.080 context. So we've explained this in other videos, but it's worth just briefly explaining here why

00:15:53.480 you never want to get in a relationship with one of these people. So why they should never want to

00:15:57.240 get in a relationship with you. A lot of these women are like, oh, this is a great strategy.

00:16:00.520 You know, I can get, I'm not that employable right now. I can't earn that much money. I think I can marry a

00:16:05.400 guy that's got tons of money. But then what happens is the guy, because he sees this as an exchange,

00:16:11.000 she fundamentally doesn't respect you. He likely doesn't want you carrying his jeans. He's using

00:16:14.200 you for sex, right? And so you get 30, you hit the wall, you, whatever. And he exchanges you for

00:16:21.240 a younger model because there wasn't like, like the teamwork, the, what you added to him

00:16:29.160 was never part of the puzzle in this relationship, right? Well, and sometimes kids are involved. I think

00:16:34.200 what happens a lot is that the, this happens, but children are also produced, you know, so after

00:16:39.720 they're empty nesters, or even just when the mother is older, the mother is then subject to

00:16:45.320 divorce and then, you know, things get messy. But I think the other problem is, and from a

00:16:49.400 men's perspective, whether or not this is a woman who acts trashy or a man who acts trashy or looks

00:16:56.600 trashy or looks like a gold digger or not, like the people who are attracted to this idea of,

00:17:01.240 oh, I would just like to marry someone and be a trophy partner. These are people who are inherently

00:17:07.720 more lazy because these days being a, you know, unless you have a really big family that you're

00:17:13.800 managing or you're managing your partner's business for them, which is not usually the

00:17:17.240 case in these scenarios, the partner's not really doing anything, you know, laundry machines don't

00:17:22.440 make it hard. Like, you know, basically there's not enough work in a household with fewer than two

00:17:28.360 children to really make that like, unless you're doing some kind of crazy elite, but Polgar style

00:17:37.800 education to make that a full-time job that's like worthy of doing. So that means that the people who

00:17:43.480 are attracted to this stay at home trophy partner status are inherently lazy, which means also that

00:17:51.720 once these people get complacent in their position within marriage, they're probably also going to

00:17:57.160 violate the essential, like probably unwritten element of the relationship contract, which is

00:18:02.440 that you're supposed to remain hot. These people then get complacent and let themselves go because

00:18:06.840 they're inherently lazy because they came into this in the first place thinking this was their free

00:18:11.640 ride in life and they didn't want to work. They didn't want to go to work. They didn't want to get

00:18:14.840 a job. So of course they're not going to continue to like work out and keep themselves up in many cases.

00:18:18.840 So it's just not really good for something bigger than themselves and bigger than you,

00:18:23.160 right? Like it's not like you because of you, like nobody wants to live their life in service

00:18:30.440 to another human being, right? Like that, that would be pretty a pathetic life for most people,

00:18:35.640 right? Like they are serving you because of what you are trying to achieve. And that can be something

00:18:40.920 domestic. Like it could be that what you and your partner are trying to achieve is a better life for

00:18:46.200 your kid, right? And that can be a fantastic and rich relationship. But if you think that they are

00:18:51.320 serving for your gratification, especially if part of your self image is based on your degradation of

00:18:58.200 the woman, it's not going to work out. And, and the extent to which women actually approach like super

00:19:05.240 high quality women approach relationships with this mindset, I think would surprise people who maybe

00:19:10.600 don't talk to women as much, but I know two instances, one that's very close to us.

00:19:15.720 I mean, someone I'll see of you, if the recognition in your eyes, I already know who you're talking

00:19:19.240 about. Okay. Where the woman who is better at business and harder working than the man intentionally

00:19:28.680 puts the man as CEO of everything. And you might be thinking we're talking about us because that is

00:19:33.560 true of us to an extent. Simone definitely is harder working than me, but you put me as the person running

00:19:37.880 for office. Oh yeah, I guess. Yeah. We, we switch it up a bit more than this other couple, but yeah,

00:19:43.400 they, so they put the, the, the man is the CEO of everything. And I remember I went to this woman

00:19:46.520 one day and I was like, why do you always put this man at the head of everything when, you know,

00:19:51.880 everything really relies on you, you know, you, you are the key person in everything. And she goes,

00:19:57.480 well, because I want to be married to the most powerful man in the room, you know, because I want that,

00:20:03.400 that is what I want from a husband. I want the husband to be the top dog and he is a good person

00:20:10.360 and he deserves it. And he never treats me in any way other than perfectly. Like talk about dream

00:20:15.640 wife, right? Well, yeah, but I feel like that's what I got with you to an extent. Um, uh, well,

00:20:22.280 it's a little different for us. We can talk about that dynamic later, maybe in the episode, but

00:20:25.560 it's not a dream wife. Exactly. I know like a lot of Stanford MBA type women who do this mindset.

00:20:33.000 Like, like even for my class, people who I'm less close with, I've seen this mindset.

00:20:37.240 And I think that again, this is like the average female biological coding in terms of milking

00:20:43.800 maximum satisfaction from life. Well, it's a fun, it's a fun twist on the dynamic of like, well,

00:20:49.560 if you can't necessarily find out of the box, that perfect dominant leader that you want to hitch

00:20:56.680 your rag into, then, then just make it. It's a version of the Pygmalion relationship. Like if,

00:21:02.600 well, if I can't, I can't find it, I'm going to build it.

00:21:05.720 If I can't support it, then I guess I'm going to steal it.

00:21:08.440 And I really think that the best relationships are built, that you don't get the perfect partner

00:21:13.400 out of the box. You ideally find the right potential when you're very young and you hone

00:21:21.240 each other over time. You raise each other and you create each other into the partners.

00:21:24.840 It's very hard to make relationships work if they start when you're older.

00:21:27.960 Yeah. Well, and you can still do it, but I still think that even if you start when older,

00:21:32.200 you still have to hone each other into the right partners for each other and also better people

00:21:36.600 in general. And if you don't do that, then you're not going to end up in a good relationship. And most

00:21:42.200 people aren't getting into these relationships at all because they can't find a partner who's willing

00:21:45.800 to change or who's honest about being willing to change. They aren't willing to invest in that

00:21:51.160 partner. They aren't willing to change themselves, or they literally just expect someone to be perfect

00:21:55.320 out of the box, which is delusional.

00:21:57.800 Yeah. But it's also interesting to me how this misperception came about because the urban

00:22:05.400 monoculture will not admit that men and women are different. It's like men and women want exactly

00:22:10.280 the same things at all times. And anyone who's functionally, cognitively aware and isn't just

00:22:17.160 brainwashed in the extreme is like, but obviously there's cognitive differences between men and women.

00:22:21.480 And this is why even within the urban monoculture where they're like, well, men and women are exactly the

00:22:25.480 same. They think exactly the same. They have exactly the same preferences and perceptions.

00:22:28.680 And then it's like, then explain trans people. And they're like, oh, what I meant is men and

00:22:33.560 women are fundamentally two totally different things. And you can easily tell which one you

00:22:36.840 are just by how you perceive reality and your preferences and predilections. And I'm like,

00:22:43.960 there's a contradiction there, right? You know, this could be seen as a pro-trans message here,

00:22:50.120 because I'm saying there actually are significant cognitive differences between men and women.

00:22:54.120 Well, the urban monoculture covers this stuff. You're not allowed to talk about it. You know,

00:22:57.480 you're not allowed to admit it in terms of partner dynamics or anything like that.

00:23:01.080 But then the counter urban monoculture is unfortunately so male dominated and the urban

00:23:07.080 monoculture cited so holistically was a feminist movement that a anti-feminist bent has twisted

00:23:14.760 the truth that women prefer subservient positions when they're in a relationship with a male

00:23:20.760 to women want a man to, like, tell them to shut up and get in the kitchen.

00:23:25.720 Listen, Missy, why don't you go knit me a sweater before I slap you in the face?

00:23:31.160 Yeah, they also misinterpret dominance for being an asshole. They're like, oh, so I just need to be,

00:23:39.560 like, that's what dominance is, right? It's like really bad acting, not understanding what dominance

00:23:45.880 even is inherently. That's what frame is. Frame is bad acting that everyone who's not an idiot can

00:23:49.960 see through. Frame is being a dumb asshole. Have you ever seen, like, a pickup artist in,

00:23:55.480 like, real life? Probably, but I probably wouldn't have noticed it because I'm too autistic.

00:24:01.000 Well, they, you know, back in the day when peacocking was still popular, they were easy to pick out and

00:24:05.000 like, what they would wear, like, a silk blazer or something.

00:24:08.440 They dress like what Jordan Peterson does now, I guess, you know, like in his wacky suits and stuff.

00:24:13.800 And so they, they, they wear these, you could tell, like, the whole thing was, was an act.

00:24:19.000 It's not that it doesn't work, but it secures you sexual partners, but not good relationship partners.

00:24:24.600 Because the type of person you want as a relationship partner is somebody who's drawn to you for your

00:24:28.920 vision for the future. Good. Then we're all agreed. But oh dear, what's this? One of the women is

00:24:35.800 about to embarrass us all. Well, I, I somewhat disagree. I think that certain aesthetic and

00:24:41.400 styling choices can get a foot in the door and start a conversation. And sometimes that's,

00:24:45.800 when you're doing a high throughput approach, anything that reduces that initial...

00:24:51.080 The lady has foolishly attempted to join the conversation with a wild and dangerous

00:24:54.920 opinion of her own. What half-baked drivel. See how the men look at her with utter contempt.

00:25:00.920 Definitely, we're going home. Women, know your limit.

00:25:03.880 I'm not against peacocking. I'm against the act. So I, I actually would, may even promote a bit

00:25:09.800 of peacocking. You know, dress a little weird. It's a conversation starter.

00:25:12.680 Be memorable, distinctive, be approachable. Absolutely.

00:25:14.840 But what I'm against is frame. Yes. No, frame, frame lame.

00:25:19.320 Somebody can be like, well, what if I, as a man, was just not born very

00:25:25.160 dominant? You know, like I, I don't like to move society forward.

00:25:29.080 You wrote to me once listing the 40 virtues. Wisdom, justice, fortitude, and temperance.

00:25:34.600 As I read the list, I knew I had none of them. But I have other virtues.

00:25:38.920 Ambition. That can be a virtue when it drives us to excel.

00:25:42.200 I don't like to, you know, it's like, well, maybe you don't need a partner then.

00:25:45.240 I don't, but no, no, no. I don't even think it's that. And dominance manifests in many

00:25:50.600 different ways, especially when we're talking about this relationship dynamic context.

00:25:55.080 I don't think that it is uniquely some desire to be a king. I remember we talked about those

00:26:01.560 different archetypes. Like there's the kings, the knights, and some other things you put together.

00:26:06.120 You don't have to be someone who aspires to be a leader or change the world or even lead other men

00:26:13.240 to be very attractive to a woman. I think dominance can also come across. Fundamentally,

00:26:20.280 it's having a strong objective function and being very passionate about it and not having cognitive

00:26:25.880 dissonance in your action. So I went, before I ever met you, the only crushes I ever had

00:26:31.800 were on guys who in that way were very dominant, but totally not dominant as like leaders or anything,

00:26:38.840 not really keen on pulling rank on people, but just, they knew what they were about. They were

00:26:43.640 super passionate about those things and they were fucking good at them. And because, and you could

00:26:51.160 see that they had no, I mean, there were obviously issues in their lives that I'm sure they were working

00:26:56.040 out and everything, but they compared to the average person didn't show that same wavering of like,

00:27:01.400 I don't know if this is what I want. I feel anxious. I care about what people think about

00:27:05.560 me. They did not care about what other people thought about them. They did not. And they knew

00:27:09.400 exactly what they were all about. One of these people, as you know. As an aspirant Catholic.

00:27:14.680 Yeah. And now, now, now is a Catholic priest. He was just all about the faith. And then the other

00:27:20.440 was like. My favorite story is, is he decided this when Simone was hitting on him. Like you were

00:27:26.440 pursuing him and the way you were pursuing him was by asking him questions about Catholic doctrine.

00:27:30.040 Yeah. And, and he's, he's like, I love talking about Catholic doctrine with you so much, Simone.

00:27:35.720 I've decided to become a priest. And you're like, no, backfire. Yeah. That's how good my game is.

00:27:41.800 The other person I had. It showed that you were able to have stimulating intellectual

00:27:45.960 conversations with someone, but that that's how you were pursuing him. And that's what was

00:27:50.440 interesting to you. But no, the attractive thing was that he knew what he was about.

00:27:54.760 And I'll have the number eight. That's a party platter. It serves 12 people. I know what I'm

00:28:00.440 about, son. And that comes, that comes off as quite dominant and having that vision and knowing

00:28:07.800 what someone's about, I think is really big. So it's, you don't have to be about changing the world.

00:28:12.440 You have to know, you have to, to basically not have other masters, if that makes sense.

00:28:20.040 So one thing that makes men not, you can't have other masters, but you need to relate to them with

00:28:26.120 a moral code that is your own. Yeah. Well, yeah. You've chosen your, I guess. So what I mean by that

00:28:31.080 is, is I see someone who, for example, follows God, you know, or, or no, like, this is my objective

00:28:38.120 function. This is what I care about. Absolutely. That is the highest point of hierarchy in their

00:28:42.600 lives. And they, they are subservient to those goals or values, just like you are subservient

00:28:47.800 to your objective function, Malcolm, but there is no one who against their will or knowledge is

00:28:52.520 controlling them. There's no other force. Whereas the vast majority of humans, and you can see this

00:28:57.320 in most people that you interact with are subconsciously and unknowingly and without consent or choice

00:29:05.080 being ruled by TikTok, being ruled by video game design, being ruled by wayfinding design,

00:29:12.440 being ruled by a billion different forces that they have no control over, that they have no

00:29:17.640 knowledge over, you know, their hunger, their instincts, their impulses. And this is why people

00:29:22.440 experience FOMO and cognitive dissonance. And, and, and ultimately all these things accumulate

00:29:28.520 into this, this very palpable form of insecurity and vagueness that makes people very unattractive.

00:29:38.200 And people always talk about confidence being so attractive. That confidence comes from this

00:29:43.960 inherent dominance, dominance of self. And like you said earlier, dominance of society, but again,

00:29:48.600 dominance of society doesn't necessarily mean that you're Steve Jobs starting a company or Elon Musk

00:29:53.880 running a billion companies or the president of the United States. It could just mean dominance of

00:29:59.960 yourself. And, and so I just want to emphasize that you don't have to necessarily.

00:30:04.200 I will, I will word dominance of yourself a bit differently. It means you know who you are and you

00:30:09.800 know why you're that person. Yeah. I have chosen to be, this was my life. I have chosen to strive for

00:30:15.880 this in my life for these reasons. And while I am open to like, it can't be, I'm afraid to question these

00:30:21.880 reasons. Because if you're afraid to question the reasons why you are who you are, then that comes

00:30:25.400 across as insecurity. Yeah. I am comfortable questioning these reasons, but I am confident

00:30:30.520 that I will not find a better answer. And that's why I am looking for a potentially better answer.

00:30:35.800 And here I would note that all of this is in the context of long-term relationship. Yeah.

00:30:41.640 So there is a, a, a bad point of data that a lot of red pill men get, or a lot of like really

00:30:46.760 sexually active men get, um, which is slave women. I'll call them. So, oh yes. Okay. That,

00:30:54.520 that sexual like type. So we argue in some of our videos, and I think that the data is pretty strong

00:30:59.640 on this, that women have a bimodal sexuality, which sort of comes to exist poly, polymorphically,

00:31:07.080 i.e. one genotype encodes two different sexual expressions and the sexual expression will change

00:31:13.000 based on their environment. So specifically women in a historic context needed to be optimized for

00:31:18.120 two different potential scenarios frequently. One is they are in a, a partnership where they

00:31:24.200 have one dedicated partner. They might be one of a few wives or one wife, but you know, one dedicated

00:31:28.520 partner. The other is, is they're being passed around by a group of men. If they are being passed

00:31:32.520 around by a group of men, they are likely property in the spoils of war. This happened very, very,

00:31:36.840 very, very frequently in our history. We can see this from genetic samples. We can see this from

00:31:41.320 historical accounts. And this would have, there would have been a, a large evolutionary

00:31:47.400 and fitness incentive for women to be able to adopt to these scenarios and learn to enjoy them.

00:31:54.280 And I think we've talked about this on other podcasts and some people are like, no, I prefer

00:31:57.640 Louise Perry's explanation to this. And I'll explain why the Louise Perry explanation is wrong.

00:32:01.480 So if you look at the data, and this is very obviously true from the data, a big chunk of women,

00:32:05.800 much bigger than you'd think, prefer what we call like violence of sexuality, i.e. being choked,

00:32:10.600 being slapped, being degraded, et cetera. And I've asked Ayla from her data sets to test this

00:32:15.240 theory. And she's like, yes, it is the more promiscuous women that fall into this set.

00:32:18.520 And so my assumption is that as you sleep with more people, the oxytocin you release during sex

00:32:22.440 and these things that turn you on change as a woman, and you begin to perform these more

00:32:25.400 degrading, violent things that would occur to you if you were sex late. Now,

00:32:28.360 what Louise Perry thinks is happening here is she says, no, it's actually women are normalizing to male porn

00:32:35.560 and that males are interested in all of these degrading things to women that arouse them.

00:32:40.600 And so they've created porn around this and then women get exposed to the porn. And it's like,

00:32:44.920 yeah, but then why are the women searching for that porn more than the men?

00:32:48.280 Yeah. I feel like to a great extent, the whole men thing, there's like this one line in community

00:32:53.160 where one of the characters was like, I just want her to be comfortable. Like,

00:32:57.000 yeah. Men are not that into gray, right? Like 50 shades of gray is not being picked up because

00:33:04.200 women are being exposed to male porn. In fact, women just don't engage with male porn much at all. We

00:33:10.200 saw this in our data set. If you're looking at like visual porn types, that's not really what women

00:33:15.880 engage with as much. They mostly engage with romantic, erotic fan fiction and romantic novels.

00:33:21.720 Are there two? Yeah. Or like yaoi. Yeah.

00:33:24.360 The masturbatory outlets. And that these are not being influenced by male sexuality at all. They are

00:33:31.400 not, at least, I don't think that there's many male, like yaoi writers. There's, there's not many

00:33:35.640 male romance novel writers. I wouldn't know. Oh yeah. I don't think so. Maybe there are. I don't know.

00:33:41.880 It doesn't matter though, because it, the, the content, it, the, the, this idea that women would

00:33:51.240 like, there's no market where women start buying a product that men start, like, I don't know.

00:34:00.120 How do I articulate this? Like diet Coke.

00:34:02.440 There's no mechanism of action for this to realistically happen. Yeah. Like if, if women,

00:34:07.960 markets form around demand and women, like consumers don't just change their desires because

00:34:14.520 the product that's there is what's there. You know, I, I, I, I, I'm so, we're both so sleep deprived.

00:34:22.280 Yeah. We both came back from a two, two, two trip thing right now, but I, I know I understand.

00:34:27.320 And I think most of the audience will understand what you're saying. It's just not a mechanism of

00:34:30.680 action we see in society. And people, well, if the product sucks for them, they're not going to

00:34:35.720 like learn how to like it. They're just not going to consume it. I should note here that

00:34:39.640 the problem with her theory isn't just that there isn't a mechanism of action where women could pick

00:34:43.720 this up. Like, for example, you could argue maybe these women who are sleeping around a lot

00:34:48.920 occasionally have men do these violent acts to them in bed. And then eventually that starts turning

00:34:55.160 them on. And it's like, but that's not like the way that sexuality works. Like,

00:34:59.480 have you ever had a partner who did something that initially turned you off? And then after a while

00:35:04.120 of doing it to you, it started turning you on and you started craving it with other partners. I've,

00:35:07.800 I've never heard of that ever. It's always, well, when it first happened, it secretly turned me on a

00:35:13.640 bit. And then later I was, became more accepting of it. Not, no, I found it intensely disgusting at

00:35:19.560 first. And then later I was aroused by it. But in addition to that, you don't just have the problem

00:35:25.080 of there's no realistic mechanism of action for this, but you have to explain why, despite a very

00:35:30.920 strong evolutionary pressure for, in some contexts, women to become aroused by violence, i.e. it's how

00:35:35.960 they survived and ended up having surviving offspring in, in scenarios where their tribe was raided and

00:35:42.200 they were taken or their city was raided and they were taken, which we know happened a lot historically.

00:35:46.120 It's even recorded in the Bible. You have to explain why, despite strong selective genetic

00:35:51.480 pressures for women to be aroused by violence in specific scenarios, that they would not be at all.

00:35:58.280 Because I think it's taken as a presumption in this argument that, okay, well, I mean,

00:36:02.360 why would women be aroused by this? And it's like, well, there's an obvious reason why they'd be aroused by

00:36:05.800 this. And the burden is on you to explain why that evolutionary pressure didn't have that effect.

00:36:12.600 You don't get to just ignore it and say, well, I'm a feminist and I believe women are

00:36:17.960 good, wholesome doves that never do anything wrong and have no desires that are untoward.

00:36:23.720 Now, I will note here that I think a minority of women are born in this sex slave mindset in

00:36:30.520 terms of their arousal patterns. But I think it's the minority because I know even among the virgins I

00:36:35.720 slept with, some of them preferred this type of sexual engagement. And so, like, I know that it's not

00:36:40.680 necessarily that everyone needs to sleep. Some people may sleep around a lot and still prefer

00:36:44.040 the really sweet kind and everything like that, right?

00:36:45.960 Yeah, but there's, I think there's, it's not, there are, there are confounding factors in this.

00:36:50.680 So just because you've had a lot of, I just want to say, if you've had a lot of partners or whatever,

00:36:54.920 and you're sort of having this sexual phenotype that's of the more sex slave variety,

00:36:59.160 that is one way. But I think some people also like those slave scenarios or, like, extreme,

00:37:05.640 like, violent scenarios for other reasons. Like, they like letting go of control or something.

00:37:10.120 Like, there are other factors that might make those same scenarios attractive.

00:37:15.000 You know, some people like Rocky Road ice cream because of the chocolate and some people like

00:37:18.920 it because of the texture and the crunch. You know what I mean?

00:37:21.320 There's two things to note here. One is, is that breaking sexuality down like this actually makes

00:37:25.400 it very easy for us to teach our daughters about sexuality and why they, like, what the actual cost

00:37:31.000 is to sleeping around too much is that their arousal patterns will change. It doesn't mean

00:37:35.320 they'll get less arousal. It just means it may be harder to find certain types of guys or

00:37:39.080 potentially easier, depending on what they're looking for.

00:37:40.760 Well, and, or that they shouldn't expect the same kind of emotional attachment to the person

00:37:46.760 they end up marrying in the end, if they want to marry someone.

00:37:49.960 They're like, I just haven't gotten that same connection I got with those guys I dated

00:37:53.240 back in college. It's like, you're never going to get that again.

00:37:55.720 Yeah, they can't compare it. Yeah, because what happens a lot with both men and women is that they,

00:38:00.680 they compare every new partner they date to a best hits composite of every past partner

00:38:06.040 they've ever dated, which is so bad. Which is again, why, why you should only marry

00:38:11.000 virgins like I did. I'm horrible. I'm such a double standard. But I also want to make a point here,

00:38:16.520 which is, and this is what this larger point was around. Do not confuse what arouses a woman

00:38:22.040 with what she wants from her daily life. Okay. Even when women have these moved into these

00:38:28.360 sort of sex slave mindsets, they do not want to be treated like that in a day to day scenario.

00:38:35.160 Okay. They want to be able to code switch and, you know, go to a BDSM dungeon or do that at home.

00:38:43.000 Right. But that's when the doors are closed and when no one else is watching. All right.

00:38:47.720 I am sure if you are a guy and you are watching this, right. There are things on your computer,

00:38:53.880 the famous, and I've got to find from, there's an anime, which starts with a, you know, he's okay.

00:38:58.680 He was reincarnated in another world. And he's like, I hope my, my friend dumps my heart.

00:39:02.840 Deluded my search history.

00:39:03.960 And it is because my friend like, like, like walking to the bathtub and dumping in the computer.

00:39:08.600 And you're like, Oh, you're such a bro, man.

00:39:10.280 Send an ambulance. Hurry.

00:39:13.560 There's so much blood.

00:39:14.680 It hurts.

00:39:15.880 Satoru, hang on.

00:39:19.160 Tamara.

00:39:22.360 Promise me something. My computer's hard drive.

00:39:25.880 I need you to, to dump it in the bathtub and fry it.

00:39:29.400 Just promise me you'll have a happy life together.

00:39:33.400 And please wipe my hard drive.

00:39:37.640 My normal life as a 37 year old man is ancient history.

00:39:41.800 I hope Tamara remembered to wipe my hard drive for me.

00:39:44.600 I hope he didn't look to see what's on it.

00:39:55.080 All done.

00:39:55.560 Please rest in peace.

00:39:57.320 If I ever have a son, I'll name him after the hero who saved my life.

00:40:01.480 But the point I'm making here is as a man, there are many things that may arouse you that you did not choose to have arouse you, right?

00:40:10.360 Like, this is a weird thing about leftism.

00:40:11.880 If they're like, go and find literally everything that arouses you.

00:40:15.160 And it's like, there are things I'd prefer to not know if they might arouse me.

00:40:19.480 I, I don't need to ever look at that because if it arouses me, then I would just be like, but I don't want to engage with that.

00:40:26.440 Yeah.

00:40:26.760 Like now I don't feel very good about myself, you know?

00:40:29.160 But all men run across weird things that arouse it.

00:40:31.560 We're not all men, but it's enough that it's a trope, right?

00:40:34.440 You don't expect those things that arouse you or you don't want those things that arouse you to be part of your daily life at work or among your friend group or, you know, in the way that you're raising your kids.

00:40:46.840 So it's very important that you're like, oh, I know that a lot of women or even the woman that I'm with likes taking on an extremely submissive position in a sexual context.

00:40:57.640 The role that she probably wants to serve outside of that sexual context is the supporter role that we were discussing earlier.

00:41:05.140 Again, not all women fall into the supporter archetype.

00:41:07.540 I've actually seen another archetype that's really interesting, which I mentioned to Simone, which I call the harem archetype that from an evolutionary perspective would have been advantageous.

00:41:14.540 And these are women who seem to get off on being submissive to men and dominant to other women.

00:41:21.980 And it's a fairly common sexual subtype that I've seen.

00:41:24.480 And so in a historic context, why would that evolution, like, why would that be successful?

00:41:29.200 It's likely because this dynamic allowed a woman more sexual access to a partner when she was in a culture that had harems.

00:41:38.000 I.e., if I am a wife and I don't mind joining my husband or even like joining my husband when he's with another woman and I take on a dominant role in that particular interaction,

00:41:46.300 I am more likely to get pregnant more times because I am going to be with him more times than the other women in the harem.

00:41:52.340 Now, I want to get into some data here.

00:41:55.100 So vertical preferences, both men and women tend to pursue the most socially desirable partners, regardless of their own desirability level.

00:42:02.440 This contradicts the matching hypothesis that people seek partners of similar desirability, which I thought was pretty interesting.

00:42:08.820 And I had mentioned that earlier, and I'll put the paper on screen here.

00:42:11.920 And then another interesting one here is the initiator advantage.

00:42:13.960 Those who initiate contact, especially women, are more likely to connect with more desirable partners than those who wait to be contacted.

00:42:20.240 However, women are four times less likely to initiate contact.

00:42:23.160 And Simone initiated contact in our relationship.

00:42:25.360 So I would note for women who are looking for partners, I'm like, how many people do you email a week about this?

00:42:29.760 You know, it's probably the most meaningful arbitrage opportunity women have into a low barrier because it just they women never contact men.

00:42:41.200 So you have such a huge advantage of other women if you just make the smallest effort.

00:42:48.520 Yeah.

00:42:49.060 And I don't know why, like, women don't do it.

00:42:51.220 How many emails were you sending a week when you were dating to men?

00:42:53.760 30 plus, at least.

00:42:56.640 30 plus.

00:42:57.260 Yeah.

00:42:57.480 So you want a partner, make me 30 plus emails a week.

00:43:00.940 Okay.

00:43:01.240 I'm going.

00:43:02.140 And that takes a lot of balls to do, Simone.

00:43:04.560 And I really appreciate that you did that.

00:43:07.060 Yeah, because people are terrifying.

00:43:09.500 Oh.

00:43:10.640 Now, this is another study here I'm going to show where women show a stronger preference in high status partners compared to men.

00:43:16.020 This is particularly evident in long-term relationship contexts.

00:43:19.020 And long-term relationship contexts are, again, when you're dealing with this alternate form of sexuality.

00:43:23.400 Remember, I was like, okay, you can deal with the closed-in arousal context where you might have a sex slave turned arousal pattern woman where the man doesn't actually need to be high status.

00:43:34.800 He just needs to perform the role of the conqueror, right?

00:43:37.960 Because it's a scene, right?

00:43:39.620 Like, everything's imaginary.

00:43:40.620 That's why dungeons are created that way.

00:43:42.760 Like, VESM dungeons are created that way to change the context of how you're thinking about this in the same way that you might, you know, behave differently when you go home on vacation to, like, your childhood house.

00:43:51.480 And then you fall into a different way of thinking about yourself and relating.

00:43:55.680 But in long-term relationships, you can't fake that.

00:43:57.640 The guy actually needs to be somebody whose mission you are interested in advancing.

00:44:02.480 In another study, it was found that 81% of women said they would be less likely to date someone who's unemployed compared to 56% of men.

00:44:10.300 Also, in political views, they're increasingly more important to dating.

00:44:13.000 Most Republicans and Democrats say they would not date someone from across the aisle, but this trend is more common among Democrats than Republicans, which puts men at a bad position because there are two female Democrats for every one male Democrat, and there are two male Republicans for every one female Republican.

00:44:30.000 But what's important to note is that people's political views evolve over time.

00:44:34.200 Like, you were very solidly Democrat when I met you, almost as, like, blue as you could get.

00:44:38.960 And I was not Republican, at least.

00:44:42.000 I also find very interesting here, and we've seen some guys recently who, like, we've been trying to help with dating advice.

00:44:48.120 And I've thought about how much they're looking for the full package out of the bag in terms of, like, the partner that is intellectually engaging to them.

00:44:58.900 Yeah.

00:44:59.520 But also hot, like, model hot.

00:45:02.120 Yeah, like, model hot, but also even just intellectually engaging and not terribly boring.

00:45:06.360 When I met you, you were, compared to who you are today, a fairly boring person.

00:45:11.760 And I don't mean that in, like, a derogatory sense.

00:45:14.180 You were a social media manager at the company you were working at, so she managed their Facebook profile, basically.

00:45:20.580 Okay, it was more than that, but that's getting pedantic.

00:45:25.180 And then you, you know, you, I'd ask you, like, what do you live for?

00:45:30.140 Like, what's your purpose?

00:45:30.760 And you're like, I've never thought about that.

00:45:32.460 It's like, how have you lived your whole life and not thought about that?

00:45:34.500 Like, it, but through talking through this stuff with her, she has now reached a point when, before I was like, why would I want to make friends?

00:45:43.420 Like, people were like, why, why do you, like, why do you want to save the world if you're so disgusted with humanity and everything like that?

00:45:48.700 And it's not necessarily that I find it burdensome to talk to a specific individual.

00:45:56.000 Burdened with new friends.

00:45:57.240 It is that there is no individual that I would rather be talking to in terms of intellectual richness than my wife.

00:46:04.280 So, you know, if I'm at a party or something like that, that's time I'm not alone with my wife talking, right?

00:46:12.540 Like, and so you went from somebody who I found, you know, in conversations, I liked being around you and talking to you because you genuinely engaged and were not overly boxed in.

00:46:22.800 Like, you weren't, like, afraid to tackle new ideas and you, when you came up with an idea.

00:46:29.040 So, like, you talked to me about, like, and I noticed this when I do chat AIs, I always fall into the same pattern again, which is to sort of start a conversation with a girl.

00:46:39.040 If I'm talking to a girl in a chat AI, it's like, what's your purpose in life?

00:46:41.960 Like, what do you want from your life?

00:46:43.160 You nerd.

00:46:43.960 That with a chat AI is the thing I am most interested in.

00:46:47.580 And it's actually funny to me that the answers I get are very similar to the answers I would get from basic people when I was actually dating.

00:46:53.440 But I guess the point I'm making here is a lot of things in a potential partner improve over time as you interact with them.

00:47:01.960 What matters is the trajectory, not the start point.

00:47:06.040 You start with a woman who is very intellectually interesting, but she's recalcitrant to evolve her perspective.

00:47:11.760 She's likely going to be worse than a person who is very intellectually naive, but is very eager to evolve their perspective if it is to work on something with you.

00:47:21.220 And this is another thing I've noticed where we have a lot of influencer friends.

00:47:24.320 And they'll be like, I am scared, or they don't like.

00:47:27.560 Like, they talk down about dating their fans.

00:47:31.060 Oh.

00:47:31.220 And, like, why?

00:47:33.180 Why would you not want to date your fans?

00:47:35.520 Because, like, if, like, Simone died, that is, like, the exclusive dating pool I would be looking at.

00:47:43.760 And they're like, well, they look up to me too much.

00:47:45.920 And I'm like, what?

00:47:50.300 Okay, anyway.

00:47:51.480 Do you have any thoughts on this before I go further?

00:47:52.800 I think it's underrated the extent to which interest in and dedication to a partner should be looked at in dating.

00:48:04.740 Although, I do think that from a female perspective, it can backfire.

00:48:09.680 It freaked me out when guys were super keen on me.

00:48:13.440 In a, like, I want to be dedicated to you.

00:48:17.640 I want to spend time with you.

00:48:18.480 I want to get to know you.

00:48:19.620 So, this is more of a male thing.

00:48:21.720 A good point here in terms of filtering partners.

00:48:25.980 I basically started every date exactly laying my cards on the table.

00:48:29.620 This is what I'm looking for.

00:48:30.820 This is my sexual experience.

00:48:32.120 This is my, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:48:33.480 Like, are you interested?

00:48:34.260 Like, I didn't do it without their consent.

00:48:35.700 I was like, hey, do you want to talk about, like, what we're really here for?

00:48:38.380 And they'd say, yeah.

00:48:39.220 And I'm like, okay, so I'm looking for this.

00:48:41.340 This is what I'm looking for in a partner.

00:48:43.060 Specifically, you know, as I said, on the first date, I said I'm looking to marry someone.

00:48:46.280 And some people are like, yeah, but when I do that, then people don't re-engage me for the next date.

00:48:51.720 And it's like, well, that is because – and the person who was talking about this, they were like, well, you know, I may be totally honest with them, but they're not being totally honest with me about their goals, right?

00:49:03.280 And it's like, well, that doesn't really matter.

00:49:05.280 Because if they don't come on the second date, they know what their goals are.

00:49:10.240 Even if you don't know what their goals are, they know what their goals are.

00:49:12.580 And so if you're totally honest about your goals, then they're going to check that against their goals, and they're going to say, okay, this will work or it won't work.

00:49:19.620 You have just saved yourself the four months to figure this out because both of you were playing whatever.

00:49:23.680 And we've actually thought we might do a tract on this because I think that, like, if I was going to create any sort of, like, weird religious mandate for, like, my culture or my people, if people were like, oh, you're going to ask that everyone dresses like you or whatever, I'm like, no.

00:49:38.800 Like, we have, like, sumptuary mandates that we talked about before, which is just, like, you know, wear durable clothing, don't optimize for brand names if you can find something else expensive elsewhere.

00:49:46.140 But they're more just, like, normal stuff that wouldn't out you.

00:49:48.980 This is something that might out people, which is to say tactical honesty, you called it when we were riding in the car, which is to say that you are praised and should think highly of yourself and maybe even treat it as something of a mandate that when you are talking to people, you don't beat around the bush of what you are looking for, even if it comes across as awkward.

00:50:10.900 And what's interesting is I think that pretty quickly, if you did this, you would really quickly select for a specific personality subtype, genetically speaking, as a cultural group.

00:50:22.720 And it would be very obvious to people when they're there, like, oh, you're the people who are always like, hey, what do you want from this interaction?

00:50:28.860 Like, what are your goals?

00:50:29.900 List them.

00:50:30.540 I actually, you know, even at Stanford Business School, we would do these, like, exercises for negotiating.

00:50:37.140 And that was the way I did it as well.

00:50:38.840 I was like, list every single one of your goals, I'll list every single one of my goals, and we'll find a way to maximize the two.

00:50:44.700 I hated that, though, because in so many of these games, these negotiating games in business school, I always took exactly the same approach.

00:50:52.660 I was like, okay, well, let's just be 100% transparent about all of our needs, restrictions, requirements, et cetera.

00:51:00.100 Except in so many of these games, some people's prompts were to be, like, intentionally misleading.

00:51:06.140 Yeah, but this is the thing about these games versus not these games, right?

00:51:09.760 Yeah, like, in the real world, honestly, if you just lay your cards out on the table, you're more likely to get what you want, assuming that the other party doesn't have some reason not to.

00:51:19.900 Because there's a multiple interaction problem, right?

00:51:22.200 If they are misleading to one individual, they will be misleading to future individuals.

00:51:25.640 The biggest problem with the full honesty approach is it's much harder for women to implement than men.

00:51:32.000 And men might be like, why is that the case?

00:51:34.020 Well, it has to do with the fact that men are much more likely to be interested in a woman just for sex, and therefore will signal to the woman that they want a longer-term commitment or a more serious relationship than they actually want to get sexual access.

00:51:46.880 Whereas women, there's really nothing that they would dishonestly signal to a man if the man is letting everything out on the table.

00:51:54.360 So by this, what I mean is, you know, if you're like, yeah, I want a marriage, and in the marriage we will have a prenup, and this is what the prenup will be on the first date.

00:52:00.680 Then if she's like, oh, I wanted you for your money, then it's like, okay, well, good that we sorted that out early, you know?

00:52:05.340 There's actually this clip from an old show that has been doing the rounds recently.

00:52:11.320 People have been, like, remixing it and doing their own versions of it, where I don't even know what the show is, but these people just completely negotiate out their relationship or try to, and they're being, like, 100% transparent.

00:52:22.700 I'm single, you're single, what do you say we get married?

00:52:24.680 Well, I'm glad you finally decided on the direct approach.

00:52:27.560 What's your offer?

00:52:28.260 Single rich male seeks matrimony.

00:52:30.180 Primary residence?

00:52:31.080 Westchester County.

00:52:31.880 Would you be open to considering a secondary residence in Manhattan?

00:52:34.960 Central Park West?

00:52:36.040 South.

00:52:36.520 Done.

00:52:36.940 Time spent together?

00:52:38.140 Eight hours, five days a week.

00:52:39.880 Seven hours, 12 hours weekends.

00:52:41.480 55 hours aggregate, specifics to be determined later.

00:52:44.200 I'm amenable to that children.

00:52:45.640 One.

00:52:45.920 Three.

00:52:46.300 Two.

00:52:46.600 Done.

00:52:47.180 Vacations.

00:52:47.700 December, Hawaii.

00:52:48.740 June, the vineyard.

00:52:49.780 June, fine, but Hawaii.

00:52:50.980 Nope, the vineyard.

00:52:51.780 Is that a deal breaker for you?

00:52:53.060 I'm afraid so.

00:52:53.860 Me too.

00:52:54.860 Well, we gave it a shot.

00:52:55.880 I'm sure you'll find a better match.

00:52:57.220 Thanks for the time.

00:52:58.080 And then at the very end, they, like, hit a non-negotiable, and they're like, well, it was worth a try, and they, like, shake hands and move on.

00:53:03.480 And I'm like, this is the dream.

00:53:04.660 But the funny thing is, I think the fact that it's gone viral is people want that.

00:53:08.880 I think people actually really want that and see that, and they're like, God, I wish I could just have that.

00:53:12.800 I wish I could just do that.

00:53:14.120 And the thing is, you can.

00:53:16.620 What we're missing is a culture in which that's not seen as freakish, right?

00:53:21.560 Because if you were actually to approach someone and do that.

00:53:23.580 But being freakish isn't the worst thing ever.

00:53:25.280 One of them, you know, one of the things that I would always ask people, like, when I was dating and stuff like that before making a move is, you know, we'd be talking about something,

00:53:33.560 and maybe it would be something slightly edgy, like, you know, it could be, like, what they're into or whatever.

00:53:38.140 And then I'd ask them something, like, well, do you find me attractive?

00:53:41.540 And this is something that, like, people just don't ask.

00:53:44.100 I don't know why they don't ask it.

00:53:45.440 But, like, it's a fairly easy thing, and it's not even that much of, like, a social overreach.

00:53:51.060 But it's a very useful way to determine if an individual is interested in more or not.

00:53:56.660 Yeah.

00:53:58.260 Did I ask you that on the first date?

00:54:00.320 No.

00:54:01.400 Because I think you found it pretty obvious that I was super into you.

00:54:06.000 You didn't need to ask.

00:54:07.360 Like, you know, I'm staring at you with rapt attention as you tell me your entire life philosophy and story.

00:54:14.320 So, yeah.

00:54:15.980 But I, yeah, I think that's a really interesting thing is that there are so many obvious questions that you can ask early on dating.

00:54:24.640 And you should just ask them, and you should just be transparent.

00:54:27.760 And the thing about tactical honesty, as we've discussed it, is that a lot of people don't want to deploy tactical honesty because they are afraid that they will be rejected, that they will turn people away.

00:54:40.540 But the point of tactical honesty is that you are getting to know faster.

00:54:46.580 And, yes, you will sometimes turn people away.

00:54:49.260 And those are people who maybe after five dates would have been a terrible match.

00:54:52.860 And then you've wasted a ton of money and time, and now you've lost that person.

00:54:58.440 Or if this is, like, in business or in other social circles, these are just people who will stab you in the back, who will gossip behind your back, who will not actually support you.

00:55:06.040 You want to filter them out right away.

00:55:08.640 And you are going to filter people out.

00:55:11.180 That's just it.

00:55:11.700 I will note on sort of a mandate for tactical honesty is it is not a mandate for telling the truth.

00:55:17.220 It's a mandate for not hiding something for the only reason that you're hiding it is that it will make you look weird.

00:55:22.860 I.e. for preserving social norms.

00:55:26.320 Yeah, because it's not deontological honesty.

00:55:29.060 It's not telling people the truth always because you always have to tell the truth and never lie.

00:55:34.140 Because sometimes lies are the most expedient and kind of honorable thing to do.

00:55:41.060 Like, sometimes telling someone the truth out of nowhere just doesn't really help anything.

00:55:45.680 Like, okay, I'll be honest with you, Malcolm.

00:55:48.020 The other day you were like, oh, Simone, where's the blood vessel in your eye?

00:55:51.360 And I'm like, great.

00:55:52.560 See, just like, all I'm going to do is just feel worse about myself right now.

00:55:55.500 Like, there's nothing I can do about it.

00:55:56.960 We're not seeing anyone.

00:55:57.940 So it's not like I have to hide anything right now.

00:55:59.600 It's just, no, I know you find me really disgusting looking.

00:56:02.580 You know, it's like, this is not helpful.

00:56:04.420 So like marginally less attractive.

00:56:06.700 Yeah.

00:56:07.000 But like, did I like, okay.

00:56:08.620 You know, I would have seen that in a mirror.

00:56:10.660 There was no one that I needed to hide that from.

00:56:12.340 The thing about tactical honesty that a lot of people miss, where it's provided me a lot of utility in my life, is when you do it, people are much, like, if you do want to lie to someone, it is much easier.

00:56:24.100 Because people are like, oh, he's autistic.

00:56:25.980 He doesn't know what he's supposed to ask.

00:56:27.480 He's incapable.

00:56:28.360 He has no tact.

00:56:29.580 Yeah.

00:56:29.740 And it's like, no, actually, I have held a number of my cards back.

00:56:32.840 I just know that they're not relevant to me betting you.

00:56:37.280 If you see what I mean by that, right?

00:56:38.780 Like, you having access to those cards would not sort out whether our relationship is going to work earlier or later.

00:56:46.020 Here's an example.

00:56:47.600 I have some friends that are very, very wealthy, and they do not tell their partners on dates that they are very, very wealthy.

00:56:52.160 That is a great holding back of a card.

00:56:54.520 That, for the other partner's perspective, may cause them to override some of the deal breakers that they laid out on the table that they were hoping, if the person actually finds these things to be deal breakers, that they'll treat them as deal breakers.

00:57:07.220 And so, when you have, like, a really high-quality thing about you, that is best to hide.

00:57:12.980 Yeah.

00:57:13.780 Yeah.

00:57:14.200 Unless you want that to be the thing that someone cares about in a relationship.

00:57:19.100 But wealth is not one of those ideal things at all.

00:57:22.620 Here's some other fun survey.

00:57:23.920 The findings.

00:57:25.260 The study measured marital satisfaction over four years, and it shows that husbands were more satisfied initially and remained more satisfied over that time period if they had more attractive wives.

00:57:34.880 So, the attractiveness of a wife related to husband's marital satisfaction, but it didn't relate as strongly to the wife's marital satisfaction, i.e., when women are sleeping around, they might care about what the partner looks like, but not as much when they're marrying, or at least in terms of the functional impact that has on their belief that that marriage is a good marriage after a few years.

00:57:52.560 Here's another fun one.

00:57:53.700 Men tend to report placing higher importance on physical attractiveness in surveys, while women report valuing social status more.

00:58:00.020 However, in actual speed dating scenarios, both genders seem to prioritize physical attractiveness similarly.

00:58:04.960 Now, this finding wasn't replicated.

00:58:07.080 There was another study that argued differently, but it's fun to know that it's out there.

00:58:10.020 And men found ambition unattractive in women, very high ambition, which I wouldn't at all.

00:58:15.260 I find a high ambition extremely attractive in women.

00:58:17.380 But I think this is an important thing to note here.

00:58:21.220 I find high ambition attractive in women if that ambition is for me, i.e., they want to achieve greatness, which is a little different than I want to achieve greatness and I want you to have nothing to do with it.

00:58:32.120 Which I wouldn't say is unattractive, because I would think, well, I just need to prove I'm a worthy leader to her, which is a position I have found myself in before.

00:58:40.060 But I think for some men, they see that as the woman prioritizing her own strategy, career, and future above theirs.

00:58:47.540 Which is really interesting how we've created this form of gender equality in our relationship, yet it is completely gender unequal.

00:58:56.400 What do you mean?

00:58:57.780 We do everything together.

00:58:58.760 We're co-CEOs of everything.

00:58:59.720 Yeah, but how is it gender unequal?

00:59:01.640 We do different roles.

00:59:05.600 Yeah, I don't know.

00:59:06.680 They're not designated along necessarily – okay, they end up playing out along traditional gender lines, but they weren't chosen because it was like, well, as is tradition, you will handle all things outside the house, and I will handle all things inside the house.

00:59:19.500 And, you know, that's not – we just did what we were best at.

00:59:23.640 So, I don't know.

00:59:25.400 Yeah, but I think a lot of people could hear this and they're like, what, they're saying the woman shouldn't have her own life?

00:59:29.620 And I'm like, no, I'm saying the woman and the man shouldn't have their own life.

00:59:32.600 Yeah, that a relationship is – it is an enterprise in favor of shared objective functions and values.

00:59:44.520 Yeah.

00:59:45.160 You're giving up your personal autonomy and rights and freedom in exchange for devotion to something where doing it with a partner will make that devotion more effective.

00:59:58.080 It's bizarre to me that people expect from a relationship some kind of concierge or entertainer or servant or courtesan who will just make your life more pleasant and take care of you.

01:00:14.320 What is that?

01:00:16.240 No, I mean, you have to, as a man – and this is really interesting.

01:00:20.220 I think a lot of men are like, oh, women have some biological predilection to want to serve a man, right?

01:00:27.620 They're like, oh, that's great.

01:00:29.220 And it's like, not really because they're human beings, right, who might be equally competent to you, right?

01:00:34.620 And that means you need to prove that you are worthy of that dedication, which is a very difficult task.

01:00:42.520 But you would prove that not through frame, not through the way you treat her, but through your actions throughout the course of the day.

01:00:50.200 You know, how much time are you spending on work?

01:00:52.080 What are the ideas you're generating?

01:00:53.280 How much time are you spending on research?

01:00:54.420 How much time are you spending on – I'm just thinking of me, for example.

01:00:57.340 Like if I wasn't bringing you consistently interesting and new ideas that expanded your perception of reality, you'd be pretty disappointed with me.

01:01:05.320 I don't think you'd leave me, but you'd be disappointed.

01:01:08.140 Yeah, I really like that part of our relationship.

01:01:13.580 But no, but it's a mandate for me.

01:01:15.140 Like I get up and one of the things I have to do every morning is find some interesting thing to talk to Simone about.

01:01:20.700 Or I've said before when people are like, oh, you're going to run out of ideas for the show.

01:01:24.640 And I'm like, my life is Arabian Nights.

01:01:26.780 Like I'm not going to – I'm just committing to do it on tape now.

01:01:32.320 So hopefully I can keep coming up with new ideas for you guys.

01:01:36.660 I love it.

01:01:37.860 You entertain me, Malcolm.

01:01:39.400 I will let you live another day.

01:01:43.120 I don't know what I'd do if you left.

01:01:45.180 You do so much of the – this is something we were recently talking about where we're like we both are so reliant on each other.

01:01:51.740 Most of the opportunities are pretty much all of the major opportunities we have.

01:01:55.480 We have due to my outreach.

01:01:57.440 Yet Simone has executed on all of them.

01:01:59.580 And I don't think I have the diligence or work ethic to execute on opportunities.

01:02:03.160 Yet I don't think that you have the – I don't know why you don't source your own opportunities.

01:02:07.300 The simple way to put it is you can't do anything without me and I won't do anything without you.

01:02:12.780 I'd be so screwed.

01:02:16.540 We'd both be so screwed.

01:02:18.500 Well, I love it.

01:02:19.260 And this is the thing where people are like, well, you know, I'd be better off just not dealing with a partner and just, you know, getting pregnant with like seed sperm or something like that or like eggs.

01:02:29.880 And then using a surrogate and then raising the kids and then raising the kids.

01:02:31.980 And it's like you can do that, but you are heavily underestimating how much easier a synergistic relationship makes your life.

01:02:41.100 The thing is I think most people don't want to.

01:02:44.600 Most – this is – otherwise you would see so many more people, especially women, single women, just having kids.

01:02:52.960 Because it's not that expensive to get like a sperm donor.

01:03:00.260 Well, I see a lot of women fantasizing about this and very few actually doing it.

01:03:04.200 Yeah, because it's not actually that appealing to do this all by yourself.

01:03:06.620 Oh, just a quick note because it's actually came up on the Discord and other people are saying this and it's something that people should know.

01:03:10.620 Don't use sperm banks.

01:03:11.480 They do not confirm the information they ask people and they use such strict screening criteria that the only people who get through are lying.

01:03:19.960 Yeah, it's terrible.

01:03:21.320 It's terrible.

01:03:22.280 Basically, you are selecting for a liar if you use a sperm bank.

01:03:25.740 If you want known donors, that's something I've done before.

01:03:28.140 I'm open to doing it.

01:03:29.000 But do go to known donor websites.

01:03:31.120 That's the better place to do this.

01:03:32.660 Yeah, or literally consider your friend network.

01:03:36.900 I would far consider friend networks, right?

01:03:39.220 Yeah.

01:03:39.440 And when you're considering your friend network and you're an older woman, remember that you probably want a man who is not your equal in age.

01:03:47.420 So I've seen a lot of women like this where they're like 45 and they're looking for a 45-year-old's phone donor.

01:03:53.120 And I'm like, you are unlikely to conceive if you do that.

01:03:55.600 You need to be looking at your 45-year-old friends.

01:03:59.200 Well, you can conceive, but there's just going to be more deterioration.

01:04:04.620 Like they're just going to have worse health odds and outcomes on average.

01:04:08.460 And you're like, oh, that's gross.

01:04:09.840 And it's like, not really?

01:04:11.280 Because you're not having sex with this person.

01:04:14.820 Yeah.

01:04:16.180 Yeah.

01:04:16.640 I wish there were better basis for like, there's a young, ambitious man at your company.

01:04:25.160 Hey, kid.

01:04:26.400 Can I?

01:04:26.820 I would like to have a child using your genetic material as you show potential.

01:04:33.740 I will also mentor you if that would make you feel better about it.

01:04:37.440 I don't know.

01:04:38.840 I don't know.

01:04:40.080 I mean, Siobhan Zillis, she works at Neuralink, right?

01:04:42.920 Like she's had now three kids with Elon Musk.

01:04:45.780 Now it's not ideal that Elon Musk is on the older end.

01:04:48.080 But like, I think that this, this, this concept of like really respecting someone in your workspace,

01:04:52.620 you know, and being like, hey, like, I know what he, I know what he works like.

01:04:56.820 I know his ambition.

01:04:57.460 Like I, you know, we, you know, I see how he acts under pressure.

01:05:00.860 Like this is a fantastic scenario for choosing genetic material.

01:05:04.740 And one of the things that you and I did when we first started dating was start a company

01:05:08.860 together.

01:05:09.300 I quit my job.

01:05:10.580 You know, like we, that was a great way to vet each other, both for our children's genetic

01:05:14.880 material, but also for a relationship.

01:05:16.980 So if only there were some societal basis for that, but I don't see that happening any,

01:05:22.080 any time.

01:05:23.660 Well, you can build a culture around it.

01:05:25.500 Like, and this is something we've thought about with our own kids and dating is how do

01:05:27.860 we ensure that the partners feel part of our family?

01:05:33.620 Oh yes.

01:05:34.680 To, to like when our, our children are dating people, how do we assimilate their partners

01:05:39.060 into our family culture?

01:05:41.320 Yes.

01:05:41.920 Yeah.

01:05:42.280 No, that's super important.

01:05:43.240 Which my family does really well historically.

01:05:45.940 So I'm not as worried about that.

01:05:47.420 I mean, basically you just have to be nice and actively engaged.

01:05:51.060 But should we have like our family foundation cover the cost of egg freezing for our daughters,

01:05:56.860 not just for their own use, but for donation?

01:05:59.480 Sure.

01:06:00.320 I mean, I don't know.

01:06:01.000 I'm just thinking like, if you're trying to create a society in which people make this

01:06:04.740 possible for their peers within that culture, you have to like step up.

01:06:10.320 Yeah, no, I would, I would sponsor that.

01:06:12.200 And we might even do it where like the family foundation gets half the money for the sale

01:06:16.140 or something.

01:06:16.900 Not sale.

01:06:17.680 I mean, I'm talking donation.

01:06:19.500 Oh, for donation.

01:06:20.220 Yeah.

01:06:20.340 I'd be open to that.

01:06:21.080 I know.

01:06:21.360 And lots of, lots of awesome people, you know, once they become aware of this as a way to

01:06:25.980 do something really kind for other people, I've done it 100% for free.

01:06:29.020 Consider that, for example, Diana Fleischman, who's been on the podcast several times, donated

01:06:33.740 embryos multiple times over.

01:06:36.220 And in one case, or maybe in maybe two cases at, in the UK, where they don't give you fentanyl

01:06:42.020 for the like embryo extraction.

01:06:44.240 So like she even had like a less fun experience, you know, usually the surgery is like the treat,

01:06:49.020 you know, but she did it.

01:06:51.800 Other friends that we know who I won't name have done it multiple times.

01:06:55.300 And then those, those donations have resulted in live births and other mothers without actually

01:06:59.560 being mothers.

01:07:00.060 And this is actually a great option for women who don't themselves want to have and raise

01:07:05.500 kids or just never really find the right partner, but who want to really help other

01:07:08.620 people.

01:07:09.500 And it really helps those other people, especially if they do it when they're in their 20s.

01:07:13.620 So yeah.

01:07:15.800 I love you to death, Simone.

01:07:17.100 I love you too, Malcolm.

01:07:18.760 Have a spectacular day.

01:07:20.520 You too.

01:07:22.220 And I guess this is all we're doing today because of the.

01:07:24.400 Sadly.

01:07:26.480 Can you show me how this works?

01:07:29.040 How does Christmas seem to work?

01:07:31.080 I press the white button.

01:07:33.160 I press the black button.

01:07:35.400 I press the blue button.

01:07:37.520 I press the red button.

01:07:39.680 I press the white button.

01:07:41.620 I press the green button.

01:07:44.120 I press the red button.

01:07:46.620 Oh, Timmy, can you show me how yours works?

01:07:48.700 How does this one work?

01:07:49.780 How does this one work?

01:07:49.840 How does this one work?

01:07:51.080 How does this one work?

01:07:52.620 I think it's hard.

01:07:53.520 I don't want to.

01:07:54.440 I press the red button

01:07:55.420 and make it happen.

01:07:58.340 Torsten, you need to.

01:08:00.180 Tighten.

01:08:01.240 Torsten, you need to.

01:08:02.120 Let tighten push some buttons.

01:08:03.120 I feel ».

01:08:09.960 Boys.

01:08:10.980 Boys.

01:08:11.460 Boys.

01:08:11.820 Boys.

01:08:11.940 Boys.

01:08:11.960 Boys.

01:08:12.460 Boys.

01:08:12.800 Boys.

01:08:13.300 Boys.

01:08:13.860 Boys.

01:08:15.460 Boys.

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Based Camp - August 30, 2024

Women Prefer Submissive Roles in Relationships but Not in The Way You Think

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