Women's Personality Sub-Types (Alpha-Beta but Women？)
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Summary
In this episode, we talk about the archetypes of men and women, and how they differ from those of the beta alpha male stereotype. We also talk about how women fit into these archetypes, and why it's important to know what type of woman they are.
Transcript
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This is where trad wives can get really dangerous because, you know, we support one form of trad
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wife that we'll talk about in a second, but trad wives who are more interested in the aesthetics
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of the trad wife and embodying the aesthetics of the trad wife, they are incredibly dangerous
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because they do not actually care about the best interests of their partner or their kids.
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They believe there is an aesthetic way to be a good wife. And so long as they are embodying
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this narrative aesthetic ideal, they are a good wife, regardless of what the evidence says.
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And when I say evidence, regardless if their husband's unhappy, regardless if their kids
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are sad, regardless if their husband is spending his meager salary to uphold this fantasy that
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they've created for themselves, they do not care. Would you like to know more?
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So we recently did an episode where we were talking about archetypes of men outside of just
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a simple beta alpha male, because I think that many men optimize around different frameworks.
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And what I really don't like about the beta alpha sigma thing is it implies that all men
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who are followers are somehow like the lesser category. Whereas I don't think that that's
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true. There are different ways you can be a follower. As we point out, you can be like
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a knight, you know, you don't need to following orders. Being a dentologist is sometimes a useful
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way to view the world when you are fighting for a just cause, but you are not the person
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leading the troops. And you have the humility and personal strengths to recognize that you are not
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fit or just didn't happen to be in the right situation to be the person leading. But that
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doesn't mean that you're not meant to play a role or that you are lesser. And so we go over that.
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And then Simone was like, well, what about women? How do women fit? Like, and I don't even know
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if I've heard like an alpha beta, whatever thing was women. So, so how-
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Yeah. It's more like, are, are they like, what number are they out of 10? Are they a mid? Are
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If we're going to build like a framework for women that follows this, this male framework that
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we built, let's go into this. But I also think it's interesting to us because we realized as we
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were building the framework for women, well, a lot of this also kind of applies to some types of men
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too. And so it can help people recognize when they're falling into dangerous character tropes
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and types. So do you want to start us off, Simone?
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Yeah. I mean, I think this is going to come to mind for most people. So if you're watching this
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and you're thinking about types of women, maybe one of the first types you're going to think of is
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girl boss. And I think this is because like when women stand out, it's often because
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they are the bossy one who has to be the smartest in the room, in charge of everything. I'm going to
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tell you how it is. Even if there's someone more competent than them in the room, like, no, no,
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no, they cannot have that. Like often I think their oldest, their eldest siblings. So they're
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just used to taking command. And they're just like, no, they kind of have that, like, I know better,
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but also they, they often are in positions of like leadership or power or whatever.
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I think is, is very interesting. They often come across as much more insecure and their goal isn't
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often to be a good leader, but to run things because they believe that everyone else is
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incompetent or not able to run things as well as they are.
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Well, I really wonder what's going on here. A common complaint on this, you know, like where
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this happens with both like female stars and with female executives of like, oh, well, when I do it,
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you call me a bitch. But when a guy does it, he's just doing his job, right? Like, oh,
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so I'm grumpy in the same way or with the same energy often.
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Well, but it's hard. Like, is it because the pitch of the, the female voice is higher?
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So, I mean, I wonder that, but I mean, I also, I feel intuitively the same way, you know, like I,
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I make the same judgments and I just wonder how much of it is societal or maybe, maybe it's just
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that like women are doing this from a place of insecurity because they're just not as comfortable
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fighting in that sphere. I, I just don't know. Like, I mean, when I look back at some female
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leaders, however, like historical accounts of Queen Elizabeth, Cleopatra, Catherine the Great,
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I don't get a girl boss feeling from them, to be honest. Um, it's, there's a different archetype
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they, they were, they were also acting from places of a lot of security
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and honestly, masculinity, girl boss that we, we chose the term girl boss for this because there
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is a distinct girlish and feminine element to it. It's not a masculine bossiness.
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I would point out here that you can have men who fall more into the girl boss category than the
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You can have, although it's much rarer for women to fall more into the king category than the girl
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boss category. The core difference here between these two categories,
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is I would say it's that they are working to like the girl boss is much more in the category of
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type A personalities. They are working for perfection and, and perfection of action of
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the organization and of what they are running and not working for a, a, a, the community and not
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working to, to lead or to earn respect, earning.
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It's about having things their way. It's less about having things the right way. It's their way
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Right. Well, and this is one of the things with, with, with Kings that is very different is,
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is Kings are often primarily motivated by two things. What I'd say is earning respect,
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but the other is an inability to take orders from other people at a level of personal pride. It's not
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that they had trouble taking orders from other people because those orders are bad, which is
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typically what the girl boss, the girl boss problem is, is that they look down on other people so much
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that they just can't trust the orders of anyone else. Right. Uh, whereas it's a fear of being,
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putting oneself in a subordinate position, which is one of the core weaknesses of this King archetype.
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Um, one of the core weaknesses of the girl boss archetype is it's just not a particularly good
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archetype for actual leadership. Like it works really well at high levels within bureaucracies,
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but it is fairly bad at actually running things of agency. So it's a skill that is really meant to
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rise to high positions within bureaucracies, but often not achieve real world efficacy,
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which different female archetypes are good at, which she pointed out was like,
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we'll get to like that, that we'll get to in a second. Did you have any other thoughts on this
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one? No, no. And I think that most people already have a lot of thoughts on this because it's also
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like such a thing in social media, but it's already something that's been, it's a dead horse.
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I guess the core final thought I'd have on this that I want to really pull out
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is this idea of when a woman is a leader versus when a man is a leader. And as the girl boss,
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are you embodying, you know, the stoicism that the King archetype is often embodying? Are you embodying
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the sort of, and they just often aren't, there isn't a level of, of mental calm or a sort of aura
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of protectiveness that they are emitting? It is an aura of agitation, which is they,
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they misunderstand. They're like, why would I am emitting this constant aura of agitation? Are
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people not relating to me in the same way that they are relating to people who are projecting
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protection and endurance? Well, not even just protection, just like security.
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Yeah. Security. Um, and, and women can learn to do that. And men, like, like you often see this
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with, with alpha men, not alpha men, what am I looking at? Like type A men, right. Uh, where they
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will project this sort of insecurity and skittishness and it's, it comes off immediately. And it, it, it,
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they too get insulted and degraded in the same way people of this girl boss category do when they are
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trying to, and this is a problem. And this is where you really see this archetype is when people in
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this type A personality type to try to dethrone or try to replace or upstage people in the king
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archetype. They end up looking very sort of weak and reckless. Yeah. Not ideal. All right. What would
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you say the next one is? So the next one that we discussed this morning that came up immediately was
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supplicant. So Malcolm, you want to walk us through the. Yeah. I know a lot of
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women who fall into this trope and it is less a trope I see with men, but it's, it's definitely
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when I see it as women, although it is, I've seen it like memed on for men, right? Smithers.
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What is it? Smithers. Yeah. The, the supplicant to Mr. Burns. Yeah. So, but I think so interestingly,
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and this is interesting is hold on. Smithers is seen as like kind of pathetic, right? But like Mr.
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Um, uh, there are Pepper Potts who is a supplicant, although like framed is sort of ironically
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eye-rolly, Oh God, I'm so much better put together. Right. Like they sort of changed her
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from a supplicant to a girl boss, but anyway, Pepper Potts. Mercy Graves with Lex Luthor.
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Yeah. Like, but like sort of this. Mercy Graves.
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Trope is more seen as like respectable, like a woman who, who assists a man and devotes her career
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and gains her power from basically representing the man as a proxy or the powerful person. And now I'm
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many supplicants we know, by the way, aren't just supplicants to male leaders. Many supplicants we know
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have worked with and for very powerful female leaders, politicians, et cetera. So like, I'm not
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saying this is a gender thing. It's just that like, it's, but this concept of a woman assisting other
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people and acting as their proxy is much more respectable for women in media and tropes than
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for men, obviously. Yeah. Which is interesting because in the other category we're talking about
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where men talk typically have an advantage was this trope. Whereas in this one, women typically have
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an advantage when they take this pathway in life. Supplicants are not, by the way, usually focused
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on their partner. Uh, they usually focus on whoever the most powerful person in their circle or life
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is, um, and dedicate themselves to that individual. And this can change throughout the course of their
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life. They don't have the type of true loyalty that somebody who is like a lifelong follower of
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their partner does, which is a different category we'll get to later. They are more just interested in
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who's the alpha, like the true number one, big Chad in my life, in my world. And I will dedicate
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myself to be a soldier of that individual. It's honestly, typically a pretty respected trope.
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And these individuals do not necessarily make bad wives. I've seen really high quality wives who
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follow this trope and they will, you know, they, they make a ton of money for their husband.
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Women who follow this trope, if they are competent, typically are even higher earners than the alpha
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types. Well, and some are supplicants to their husbands, right? Some are the assistants to their
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husbands. So no, rarely, rarely, rarely in the, in the modern world, your husband would need to be
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extremely powerful for a supplicant to be a supplicant to her husband, because usually if
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their husband is like moderately powerful, like the supplicants we know, he gives them access to even
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more powerful men and women that they can dedicate themselves to the supplicants. Yeah, fair. Yeah. So
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there is a benefit in it being outside the marriage. Well, it's not a benefit. It's just an
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inevitability if they're not like locked in at home, but I have not seen of the supplicants. I know I
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have never seen one cheat on their partner who are women. And this is something that people might be
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surprised about. They might think the supplicant archetype is one that is likely to cheat, but
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actually usually not because they're pretty high honor driven. They're very similar to like the male
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knight archetype, but they're much more focused on a single individual, but they're also much more
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likely to be dentologists and obsessed with honor and integrity. And they look for that in the
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individual that they act as a supplicant of. And so that person making a move on them or something
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like that to them would lower that person's standing within their eyes. And so you don't see the same
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risk that I think an insecure guy might think he's dealing with if he has a supplicant spouse.
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Yeah. Like if I were a guy, I'd probably rather marry a supplicant than a girl boss.
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So what's the difference between a supplicant and a knight in guys? Because guys can take on
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female-y tropes and women can take on male-y tropes. What would you say is the core differentiator
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That, yeah, that it rather than, I think guys, even if they are following someone like Jordan
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Peterson or Elon Musk or whatever, make it about a philosophy and less about the person. Cause I
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don't, I think from a pride standpoint, it's harder to be seen as serving a particular leader.
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I agree. I think that's the core difference is the male category here is serving an ideology or a
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community, whereas the female iteration is serving a strong leader within that community.
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So you can have men in this category as well. So what would you say is the next trope? This is fun.
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So you called the next trope brown shirts and it, what this describes is that, and this is a trope
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that's been around for a long time, but in sometimes it has many different faces and it appears in
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different places, but that kind of busy body, social policing woman who works very hard to
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impose her social norms on you. So the girl boss is really just trying to have things run her way
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and everyone doing things her way. Whereas the brown shirt is trying to impose cultural views,
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The classic brown shirt examples would fall into two categories for people. I'd say the classic one
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is a woke person would be a classic brown shirt, like a woke person or an Antifa member or something
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like that. And then the other category would be like the trad cast, whatever wife who's like trying
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to impose her cultural value system and hierarchy on, and things that rank you within that hierarchy
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was in people, was in other hierarchies. And that they're really obsessed with these internal
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hierarchy battles. And what drives the brown shirt, the reason they wake out of bed every morning,
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the thing that they are most focused on is their status within a local status hierarchy
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that is controlled and mediated through social shaming of not following the rules or norms of a
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community. And why I think this is a useful category is because often people only see it in the groups of
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their enemies. They don't, one, how at a lower level, it can be useful. Like there is useful in sort of
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norm setting within a community and women who see it as their job to lightly shame other people. But when
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you get too many brown shirts within a community, then you get virtue spirals in which a lot of women
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just dedicate themselves to outdoing, outdoing, outdoing, being the most, the most, the most,
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and constantly looking for these small failures to meet community standards in outsiders. And that
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there is not particularly any difference between the woke Antifa woman who's screaming about you not
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fitting X value set when you are not part of her cultural group than there is. But, you know, the,
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the Sunday school mom who's screaming at somebody who's clearly, you know, not of her community,
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that they're not following her community standards and, and, and shaming them. And you'll know when
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you interact with these people, this, the, the, I'm holier aspect. It's not like if you're a part
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of their community, they're pleasant to interact with because constantly showing you that from the
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perspective, art, I'm actually the superior one, regardless of what they've achieved. This is what's
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really interesting. And what's uniquely feminine about this is it is a form of status hierarchy that
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they are obsessed with that is completely social and completely disconnected from any sort of real
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world efficacy or achievement or bettering the community. Yeah. Right. Um, tries to better the
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community by, or even a supplicant tries to better a community by doing things that help individuals in
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that community or elevate the leader of the community. The brown shirts are genuinely pretty
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unconcerned with what's in the best interest of the community. Their concern was how stringently
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the community follows the rules, how much people outside of the community are following those rules
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and how they can utilize that to raise their status vis-a-vis other people.
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So they believe, they believe that what they're doing is what the community needs. Of course,
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if they were talking to you, they would tell you that they're absolutely helping. I just find it
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interesting that there really isn't a male equivalent, like someone who's imposing, um,
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sort of like annoying norms on other people or being sort of like a Nazi about things is,
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is either probably going to be a knight or a... I disagree. I think there is a male equivalent.
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So I see them very frequently. It was in like the fitness community. I see them very frequently.
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I just see them more as knights because they're just like fanboys for like weightlifting or whatever
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sport they're... So consider the difference between a brown shirt and a knight, right? Like a great
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example here would be like, okay, you are dedicating yourself to the fitness community and you're trying
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to elevate the community, right? Right, right. You would make like logical arguments on behalf of
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the community. Consider when we have pissed off the fitness community and they've been like, oh,
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Malcolm's, how much can he lift? How much can he, you know, I'm like, I'm not part of your
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community. I'm not part of your value hierarchy. Why are you judging me by your community's value
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hierarchy? Or the individuals who, you know, see our channel and they're like, oh, Malcolm doesn't
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look manly in X and Y way. Therefore I can't follow him or I can't take him. These are individuals who
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are imposing a value hierarchy that I am not subscribing to and not competing within to me
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in an attempt to shame me into falling into their community and value hierarchy. And of course,
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as soon as I do, then they are above me in that value hierarchy because that's the hierarchy
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they're using to judge their value. Men do this all the time. I'm actually very confused that you
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are so surprised just to see how often men do this. Within the red pill community, I see this all the
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time. I guess I just saw them more as knights because I see knights as, as sort of following a
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big philosophy, but all this is all arbitrary stuff anyway. No, it's, it's not arbitrary at all.
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It's a really big difference. Knights are fighting to, uh, I mean, our categories are arbitrary,
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just like, you know, my, no, no, but the point I'm making it is not arbitrary at all. So consider
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brown shirts are almost always toxic to their own communities. Knights are almost always helping
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their own communities. So look at the red pill community and you can understand why it's actually
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really important to draw these distinctions. And they are not arbitrary at all. A red pillar who is
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a knight will go out there and they will do something like build an organization that is
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meant to help men in legal battles for child custody and where there's unfairness in there,
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or they will try to create an organization, um, that is meant to help men dating, or they will try to,
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a brown shirt will do almost the exact opposite of that. They will police community norms. They will
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go around on message boards and say, this is what high status was in our community. This is what
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low status is within our community. Look at this individual who's not following community norms
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enough. Look at this individual who is following community norms enough. And they will also attack
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people outside their community. So if you consider even like attack comments in a different video,
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right? Like suppose you have a brown shirt versus a knight in the red pill community,
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watching a video that is attacking that community. The knight will create a logical argument as to why
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that person is wrong. The brown shirt will create a, an argument that denigrates the individual they
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are attacking for not value set of their community. Obviously the brown shirt is doing nothing but
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angering the public at their community. Like they, they achieve nothing by saying you outsider don't fit
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our value hierarchy. It's like, obviously I don't fit your value hierarchy. I'm not competing there.
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Brown shirts are always a negative. It doesn't matter if they're men or women. And I would actually say
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that brown shirts are one of the least gendered of all of these archetypes and one of the most
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holistically negative of all of the archetypes. Now I see the distinction you're making. That is
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helpful. Okay. Next one, which is probably, should we save our favorite for last? Probably. So we'll go on
00:20:43.580
to signalers. Yeah. Signalers are different from brown shirts in a surprising way. So brown shirts
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are very interested in signaling to outsiders and using community status to signal their position
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within a local community hierarchy. Signalers are primarily motivated by signaling to themselves
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that they fit a particular narrative that they associate with either a life well lived or a good life.
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So it's less about getting other people to do things that they think are appropriate and more
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about having other people see them a certain way. So it's still kind of coercive and that like,
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it matters to them what other people think of them. No, it's about seeing themselves in a certain way.
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So they really don't care what other people think then.
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No, they sometimes care. Sometimes they, and this is a really interesting thing about signalers
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is sometimes they really want to see themselves as the type of person that other people see a certain way,
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even when other people don't see them that way. So I'll explain what I mean here. And as soon as I
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explain it, people will be like, Oh my God, I have seen somebody do this and it's so obnoxious.
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This is the type of person who you'll get stuck in a conversation with. And it's very clear that
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they want you to think of them as like a wise mentor figure or something like that. But you have
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been ignoring them the entire conversation. You are just looking to get it over with because you're
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looking to raise money from them or something, or you're looking, but, but you are there patiently.
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Now they actually don't care what you think, not in a meaningful sense. They're, they're using you
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to masturbate their internal narrative as a wise person who outsiders go to for advice. They,
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they are not actually, and they don't like, if you question you would like, do you really care that
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this person actually just isn't paying attention to you? And like, I don't know, you're on a Skype
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with them and they're, they're searching through Instagram or something just for, huh? Yeah. Wow.
00:22:37.060
That's fascinating. So that's, that's honestly a more, a less damaging iteration of the signal or
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personality type. The more damaging iteration of the signal or personality type is, or the most
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damaging I'd say is the narcissistic mother. Because many mothers. Oh God. Yeah. Okay.
00:22:55.700
Yeah. These are women who, when they are interacting with their kids are using those kids to masturbate
00:23:02.980
a narrative that they are the perfect mother and they are not particularly interested in how the
00:23:09.460
way that they are treating those kids is actually affecting those kids or leading to outcomes among
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those kids. The most extreme example of this is a mother who has been challenged by proxy, who
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really loves seeing herself as a caretaker. And as their kid gets older and no longer needs like
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diapers change, they find some way to make that child sick so that they can continue to be
00:23:28.780
the caretaker. That's terrifying. I don't even know if I say that's the most extreme example.
00:23:33.740
What's the most extreme example? Oh my God. That's the scariest thing in the world.
00:23:37.960
Eight passengers is a great example. What happened with that family? That was a mother who didn't
00:23:42.820
actually care about being a good mother to her kids. She cared about seeing herself as a good
00:23:47.180
mother to her kids. Well, she wasn't systematically poisoning them. At least there were that.
00:23:52.440
Well, I'm just pointing out that there are lots of different iterations of this. And yeah,
00:23:57.360
you have the Munchausen by proxy thing and stuff like that. But then you also have
00:24:00.640
people like the eight passenger situation where it's very clear that her parenting strategies,
00:24:07.040
they are not evidence-based. They are aesthetic-based. They are based around her aesthetics of what a
00:24:13.760
good mother is like. And even when she saw it destroying the lives of her children, even when
00:24:18.940
she saw her children leaving her face, pulling away from her, building up basically camps to
00:24:23.580
deconvert her kids after they left the family, she still had no level of introspection. She just
00:24:29.480
went deeper and deeper and deeper because for these individuals, the interesting thing about
00:24:35.380
signalers is there is no consequentialism to what they're doing. It genuinely does not occur to them
00:24:41.900
to ask what actual outcome will this have? They are completely obsessed with the aesthetics of the
00:24:49.580
way they are performing a role. And this aesthetic obsession destroys family units often. And it is
00:24:57.580
really dangerous. This is where trad wives can get really dangerous because we support one form of
00:25:02.740
trad wife that we'll talk about in a second. But trad wives who are more interested in the aesthetics of
00:25:07.300
the trad wife and embodying the aesthetics of the trad wife, they are incredibly dangerous because they
00:25:13.640
do not actually care about the best interests of their partner or their kids. They believe there is an
00:25:18.540
an aesthetic way to be a good wife. And so long as they are embodying this narrative, aesthetic ideal,
00:25:25.740
they are a good wife, regardless of what the evidence says. And when I say evidence, regardless
00:25:30.900
if their husband's unhappy, regardless if their kids are sad, regardless if their husband is spending
00:25:37.000
his meager salary to uphold this fantasy that they've created for themselves, they do not care.
00:25:42.520
Well, so then let's get to the important part. Let's say that you are looking at a wife and she
00:25:47.780
seems like a trad wife. I mean, like the problem is these people are often very good signalers to
00:25:53.180
an outsider, right? Like, so how would a guy know if he is accidentally marrying someone who is going
00:26:00.920
to be toxic in this way versus someone who's actually just going to be a devoted wife who
00:26:05.560
really is, who cares about outcomes, who cares about the impact of what they're doing?
00:26:10.360
Well, I mean, I suppose talk through it with her. You know, if you're talking through like,
00:26:15.960
how do you decide between X and Y way of punishing kids? How do you decide between X and Y way of
00:26:22.220
raising kids? If they're just like, well, this is the X religions way of doing things or X cultural
00:26:27.760
traditions way of doing things. They are very dangerous.
00:26:31.200
So you're looking for someone who makes evidence-based decisions. And if you can't find
00:26:34.500
proof that they make evidence-based decisions and that they will change their behavior based
00:26:39.380
on evidence, then you know, to be afraid. Yeah. Or at least some sort of logical chain
00:26:45.120
other than this is just the way people who are good Christian wives do things. And that's where
00:26:53.580
they become really dangerous because they believe and they're like, as long as I am doing the X,
00:26:59.260
the aesthetic of a good Christian wife, it doesn't matter if my husband is miserable and broke and in debt,
00:27:04.840
I am a good Christian wife. I am good. I am not responsible for that. And these individuals are
00:27:09.960
incredibly dangerous. And I should note, so a lot of people hear this and they go, wow, you're much
00:27:13.700
more negative on the female tropes than you are on the male tropes. Why is this? I go, do you not
00:27:18.620
remember that we named all of our daughters like gender neutral or masculine names? We have multiple
00:27:23.640
videos where we talk about, like, I do not believe modern femininity is healthy. And as we pointed out,
00:27:29.220
women can embody these masculine tropes as well. And I think that women are genuinely better off
00:27:34.480
embodying masculine tropes. They are not the unique sphere of the masculine. They are just often the
00:27:40.840
emotionally healthier tropes. And they are the tropes I think men gravitate towards more in our
00:27:47.960
society today than they might have historically, because the gender differences in men and women
00:27:54.080
and women gaining disproportionate power within our society, which they have right now, has led many of
00:27:59.360
the more emotionally healthy, i.e. trying, i.e. sacrificial tropes to be uptaken by the downtrodden
00:28:05.980
class, which is what you typically see in a society. And then so they're becoming more masculine tropes.
00:28:10.660
But historically, I think that these were often seen across genders in much more equal numbers,
00:28:14.740
and that you really didn't have, like, it was understood that most of these tropes that we are
00:28:18.280
now labeling as feminine, were actually just seen as bad and everyone knew they were bad.
00:28:22.500
But in the name of not being totally negative on women, we do have, I would say, the final female
00:28:29.300
trope or type that we separated out in terms of what we most commonly see, I would say is more
00:28:35.220
positive than any single male trope out there. Because this, it, what we're about to describe
00:28:40.560
is kind of like the best of both knights and kings all together in one package. And this is what we
00:28:47.380
will call the viking woman. So what is the viking woman? I call her the shield wife. The shield wife
00:28:52.740
or the viking woman, but doesn't necessarily have to be a wife. So what is this? And everyone, I think,
00:28:57.640
has encountered women like this, both in media, for sure, but also like in the real world. These are
00:29:02.780
women who are extremely devoted to their, their group. This could be an ideological group, but more
00:29:12.220
commonly it is like their kids or their family or their husband or a combination thereof. So
00:29:18.380
common tropes of this are like that incredibly strong willed, like somehow manages to make
00:29:24.020
everything work, makes holidays amazing. Single mother who's working with very little income and
00:29:28.780
very few resources, but who have kids that she is just like, her world is for them. It is the,
00:29:33.720
it is the actual real devoted trad wife who does everything she can, you know, to like homeschool
00:29:39.520
her family, you know, with seven kids and, and to, you know, be there for her husband and to just
00:29:44.500
give everyone the best education possible, you know, despite this not being an easy thing to do.
00:29:49.620
This is, you know, the, the member of a larger extended family who's able to secure a really,
00:29:56.320
you know, high paying job and then manages to almost single-handedly carry that family,
00:30:00.720
sending remittances across borders to take care of elderly relatives in other nations,
00:30:05.620
to fly out and take care of them, to do all these things while also, you know, having a husband
00:30:10.020
and raising a kid and doing a really good job with it. Like, so these are incredibly strong
00:30:14.160
women. These are the people who I think of when, when I think of amazing female leaders like Queen
00:30:19.440
Elizabeth, like Catherine the Great, like they, these are people like, so Catherine the Great
00:30:23.700
wasn't really that great of a mother. She wasn't really that great of a wife, but she really cared
00:30:28.400
about Russia. So, you know, she was the shield woman for Russia and, and she really cared about
00:30:33.240
making it a great nation and it gave her a huge amount of resolve and confidence.
00:30:38.440
I agree with everything you said, but I would not agree that these women who you're labeling
00:30:41.800
here are shield bearers because the core aspect of the shield bearer woman is she is a woman who
00:30:47.180
makes the, the safety and security of a small group of people, her personal responsibility,
00:30:53.880
but it is key that it is a small group of people.
00:30:56.920
I don't know if the small group of people or it is a company, the women like Catherine the Great
00:31:02.380
or Elizabeth or stuff like that. Many of these women are actually just either King archetypes
00:31:08.400
or Signaler archetypes that happen to have a positive understanding of their role.
00:31:21.680
Queen Victoria was a Signaler, but I don't think she was a really great leader.
00:31:25.580
She was, she was obsessed with, with seeing herself as, as a mother to her kingdom and
00:31:31.640
everything she did was about masturbating that particular signal. This, you know, or the
00:31:41.040
Queen Victoria was a Signaler and she was all about propriety and having her family look a
00:31:45.380
certain way and having her look a certain way. And she was incredibly in love with and devoted
00:31:48.400
to her husband, but she didn't necessarily make life easier for him.
00:31:50.920
And Queen, I still see Queen Elizabeth II as, as being a shield wife for her nation. Yes,
00:31:59.720
she saw herself as that, but I think she also really acted on it in a way that led to her
00:32:05.640
amazing reputation. I think what, what makes a Signaler...
00:32:09.920
...about an extremely tight control of her narrative, which is because she was a Signaler.
00:32:14.480
She was not, you, you admire her, so you are unwilling to see that she had a view. So this
00:32:22.460
is the way monarchies typically worked historically, is they raised Signalers, but they tried to create
00:32:29.360
a narrative archetype that was beneficial when these individuals attempted to embody it. And
00:32:35.040
many Monarchs fall into this Signaler archetype where, especially female Monarchs, where they
00:32:40.680
have been given a good image of what it means to be a queen. And then they do everything they can to
00:32:46.620
embody that good image from a personal narrative perspective of what it means to be a queen. A
00:32:51.820
great example of this was the last queen, Queen Elizabeth. Complete Signaler.
00:32:56.460
No, man. No, she's different. She does, she falls outside these tropes and it's because I think
00:33:04.120
Are you kidding? The horse obsession? No, she is extremely autistic.
00:33:07.180
She was autistic. I don't disagree with that. But everything she did was about filling a personal
00:33:12.940
narrative of what a queen should be. And it was not for consequentialist reasons.
00:33:17.820
It was about the rules. It was about the rules.
00:33:21.220
That is what Signalers do. They follow the rules, Simone.
00:33:24.240
But I don't think she had to see herself a certain way. In fact, in many cases, she did things to follow
00:33:30.400
the rules in a way that made her look terrible and the way that she didn't want to be seen.
00:33:38.080
Policies that she made with her sister and other family members' marriage choices made her
00:33:44.640
pretty unpopular. The way that she dealt with Princess Diana.
00:33:50.260
Was that not all? This is not a good argument here. Was that not all about following the rules
00:33:55.960
that she thought a queen of England and a member of the royal household was supposed to uphold?
00:34:00.300
I think a lot of people were telling her that this is unpopular stuff that's making her look bad.
00:34:05.920
It doesn't matter. And this is the thing about Signalers, okay? Signalers don't care about what
00:34:12.220
other people really think about them. They care about what they think other people should think
00:34:16.980
about them. It is very, very different from somebody who's in a popularity context, which is a
00:34:23.000
brown shirt. Brown shirts care about what other people actually think about them.
00:34:27.080
They think about people of their community and their value system. Signalers don't. They care
00:34:32.300
what other people should think of them by their estimation. So I think that you're missing it. I
00:34:38.120
think shield bearers are very unique in that they are always a local targeted community. It could be
00:34:45.180
their extended family. It could be their immediate family. It could be their company. If they're,
00:34:51.000
you know, we're working on some small company or something like that, but it is never,
00:34:55.400
or it could be their end group, but it's never larger than like 12 or 15 people because they are
00:35:01.800
very, very community focused and focused on the efficacious stability of that community. What I mean
00:35:08.840
is that, you know, if you look at a Signaler mom and you see one of her kids really suffering,
00:35:14.060
she would be like, I don't care. I'm following the rules. It's their fault that they're suffering.
00:35:20.300
Right. Whereas a Sig, whereas a shield mom or wife would care. They'd be like, why is that individual
00:35:27.400
suffering? What am I doing wrong? And I think that this difference shows where people like Elizabeth
00:35:32.280
were signalers and not shield bearers. If her country was suffering, but she felt she was following
00:35:38.160
all the rules. She'd be like, what are you doing? That's wrong. I'm following the rules. I don't need to
00:35:43.020
change. She would never change based on the effects it was having on other people, which is the core
00:35:48.840
difference between the shield bearer and Sig. Okay. Queen Elizabeth II did show intense reticence to
00:35:53.900
change tack when clearly what she was doing was not working. So that's a very fair point.
00:36:00.640
Anyway, I love you. I'm sorry to be so harsh on your heroes here.
00:36:04.100
Oh, she's, I wouldn't say Queen Elizabeth II is a hero of mine, but I do love autistic women in
00:36:24.280
I wonder how many different armchair diagnoses we can get for you. You are not autistic. By the way,
00:36:29.840
Malcolm is not autistic. Not even remotely. He does not show.
00:36:33.820
It's sort of a fundamental misunderstanding of this person acts socially weird versus
00:36:37.660
understanding actual psychiatric conditions when people say I'm autistic. Wow. You're just like
00:36:45.380
Yeah. You're more. Yeah. So like I'm, I'm on the autistic spectrum. Malcolm is more on the
00:36:48.800
schizoid spectrum and that he like models other people a lot, like more than the average person,
00:36:53.520
but he's definitely not on the autistic spectrum. Also like in terms of like, he has no food or
00:36:58.920
texture sensitivities, no sound sensitivities, no transition trouble. He doesn't, you know,
00:37:04.380
like none, none of the classics are there. Um, you are not neurotypical though.
00:37:09.020
Very easy idea. Uh, very easy time when I'm talking to somebody telling what they're thinking.
00:37:14.080
Yeah. Which a lot of people are surprised by because they're like, well, then why did you offend
00:37:17.640
them? And I was like, because that's how I got what I needed to get out of them.
00:37:20.540
No, the, that's the really, really funny thing is people assume like, oh, well, if you model other
00:37:24.020
people, you know, you're going to be like, you know, a Bill Clinton or whatever, like, you know,
00:37:27.260
like some person whisperer. And it's the, here's the thing. Malcolm does not give a shit about you
00:37:33.120
and he doesn't think very much of you. And that's why he says tone deaf stuff. It's because he does
00:37:40.140
not respect you. And that is so harsh. And everyone has to believe and feels compelled to believe
00:37:47.800
that. No, no, no. It must be that he is autistic. It must be that he doesn't understand me enough.
00:37:54.440
Like no one would ever be that insulting toward me in knowingly. No, sorry guys. That's Malcolm is
00:38:02.000
because you know what, quite frankly, and I'm so sorry, but he is smarter. He is smarter than you.
00:38:10.160
He does know better. Oh, I'm so sorry, but it's true. He's smarter. He's clever. He's thought
00:38:17.500
through this before he's researched this more than you have. And he finds your pomp is pontificating
00:38:22.780
to be incredibly tedious. So of course he's going to start looking away and then he's just going to
00:38:27.080
walk away from you without saying goodbye. Oh my God. You hate it when I do that sometimes
00:38:31.400
when I'll talk to somebody and I'll tell that they're dumb. And then I just start looking and
00:38:35.880
like walk away in the middle of a conversation. Yeah. Because when I go to an event, I'm, I'm the
00:38:41.960
most dishonest person in the entire world. I'm looking happy. I'm looking typically somewhat
00:38:46.360
comfortable. I'm looking interested in the conversation. The whole time I'm in more excruciating
00:38:52.580
pain than you are. You're experiencing boredom and frustration. I am like, my hand is on a
00:38:57.020
stove and that stove is on full power. And I am like, but you say, and you're like,
00:39:03.120
you can see it in my eyes. The moment somebody says something dumb or like the signals that
00:39:07.860
they're like, I don't really care that my eyes just immediately go like, start wandering around
00:39:12.240
the room. Yeah. It's, it's, it's just looking for who I need to talk to next. I'm standing there
00:39:16.860
until I get out. Oh no, I'm going to be the worst politician ever. I'm so glad we're running you for
00:39:23.760
Oh God. This is a, yeah, that is going to be a really interesting challenge. What are we going
00:39:27.040
to do with like all of the people who you don't find sufficiently smart and interesting?
00:39:31.900
Maybe eventually society will be able to respect and understand that they might not be as efficiently
00:39:36.840
interesting to talk to me. Well, we actually talked about this and you know, I guess this is
00:39:40.560
kind of closing in on the theme of funny tropes and silly categories, but I want there to be a trope
00:39:44.940
for a politician who absolutely and openly hates his constituents, but who does such a good job at
00:39:52.840
making their lives better that they just love him. And they always put him in and they're like,
00:39:56.280
yeah, and he's like, I hate you. You're like, I will be efficient and, and affable enough to be
00:40:07.020
disregardable. Yeah. But what I like about you, Malcolm, is that you express on the outside,
00:40:12.500
what I feel on the inside often, except that also in social situations, I'm just in searing pain and
00:40:17.240
I want to run away. So it's hard. So anyway, I love you to death, Simone. And thank you again for
00:40:22.640
being the perfect shield wife for our family. Thank you for being the perfect king for ours. I love you.