Candace Owens - DEBATE： Is Everything Antisemitism ｜ Candace Ep 19

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00:00:26.480 All right, guys, welcome back.

00:00:28.240 So as promised, I told you that I had a very long discussion with Rabbi Barclay that went much more viral than I had anticipated.

00:00:35.100 Strangely, I do like the guy.

00:00:36.680 I think he's a little kooky, but I think he's honestly kooky.

00:00:39.720 And he lies a bit, but I don't know. 0.98

00:00:42.000 I guess he's at the age where I just sort of go, oh, well, it's just kind of like he's just like a crazy old man.

00:00:46.000 But anyways, I did previously have Ami Kozak on, and I think that he was just a way more sensible voice on pro-Israel issues.

00:00:54.300 And I know that because he saw these clips going viral and saw people pulling it out and pretending that Rabbi Barclay was the voice for pro-Israel, of course he's going to take offense to that because who wouldn't when you feel like this person doesn't actually represent your beliefs.

00:01:06.980 And so I wanted to give Ami a platform to kind of respond to that and to say and ask anything that he wanted to.

00:01:12.240 So welcome back, Ami.

00:01:13.040 All right. Thank you, Candace.

00:01:14.940 Well, he's not here to defend himself, so I'm just going to speak to a couple of the issues I thought weren't covered.

00:01:19.560 And just I think, as you believe, you know, conversation and dialogue is the best.

00:01:25.260 I maintain that that's the best way forward when these problems arise.

00:01:28.760 And, you know, I mean, the last conversation we had was called Am I Anti-Semitic?

00:01:33.120 Like, and since then, I mean, you're definitely anti a few Semites, you know, like just a few. 0.89

00:01:38.700 A few Semites? Which ones? 0.99

00:01:40.040 I'm just kidding.

00:01:40.640 But no, what I'll say is in all seriousness, I think where I'm identifying the problem as you're coming up and clashing with the Jewish community broadly, let's say, is that there is a difference between what's going on internally with you and what you feel in your own heart and mind.

00:02:00.560 And I am not comfortable telling anybody that they are something inside internally that they claim not to be.

00:02:07.460 I don't think that's appropriate.

00:02:08.700 I think someone knows who they are and what they are and what they feel.

00:02:11.800 So when people label you an anti-Semite, you are this.

00:02:16.340 Naturally, your your defenses go up because, you know, inside what you are, what you feel, that you have relationships with Jews, that you've had enriching relationships with Jews and Jewish people and have no hate in your heart when it comes to this.

00:02:27.940 But the distinction I'm going to make is between what you feel internally and what goes on externally.

00:02:33.160 And my concern as to what you've been doing, and I think for a lot of Jewish people, but I'll speak for myself here, is that externally, the rhetoric, the the types of things you've been engaged in on Twitter, the types of language you're using, this kind of conspiratorial, suggestive nature of talking about issues.

00:02:51.740 And we can get into the specifics of that, saying things like, what's really going on here?

00:02:56.760 This is what they want.

00:02:58.620 There's Jewish there's Jewish gangs going on and taking the actions of particular Jews that you've had bad interactions with or nefarious Jews in history and extrapolating off of that and generalizing off of that is emboldening anti-Semitism broadly and adding to a climate.

00:03:13.920 That's very disconcerting for Jews and for me and for me, too, to see that.

00:03:18.200 And in a world post-October 7th, when we've seen mobs of people on the street supporting it, and I know that's not you, and I know that's not David we had a discussion with, but there are people who do support it proudly.

00:03:27.860 And to see rises in anti-Semitic incidences, have there been mistakes in the past where we called that anti-Semitism, where it wasn't there?

00:03:34.700 Yes, but when we're seeing it now, for you to engage in this kind of rhetoric repeatedly in a pattern going on here, whatever's going on internally with you, saying you're not anti-Semitic and you don't have hostility towards Jews, I believe you.

00:03:44.060 But to call out what's been going on externally and what you've been engaged in, to me, is not us trying or me trying to cancel you or control you or doing any of those things.

00:03:52.960 It's engaging with you and making you aware of such things.

00:03:56.360 And in our last conversation, there was a point you made that I wanted to address.

00:03:59.960 We didn't get to it, but the idea of like Jews are doing well, you know, this perception that Jews are just doing well and we're comfortable.

00:04:06.220 Now, if you took a snapshot in history right now, like I will not disagree that there's a lot of prominent Jews and we've made a lot of impact and made a lot of positive contributions and are represented in a lot of ways.

00:04:16.680 We're proud of that. And the reasons for that are because of, are very clear, like because we, in terms of culture and what we value, there are things that you've advocated for during BLM and during Blexit, two-parent families and education and scholarship and commitment to those things.

00:04:33.120 That's accomplished. That's been very positive for our community.

00:04:36.080 And so I wonder why there's not more admiration for that as much as it seems like there's suspicion for that.

00:04:41.300 And I'll just close by saying in this opening part that for us to engage with you on this issue and to call your attention to it is just to make you aware that even though Jews you perceive as doing well in this current moment, the history, it reveals to me a certain lack of awareness and ignorance to the history of repeated cyclical anti-Semitism that Jewish people in the Jewish community has faced for decades.

00:05:03.120 A hundred years, a hundred years, millennia throughout history in every society we've ever been in.

00:05:07.000 And to not be aware of that or sensitive to that, to make you aware that you are contributing to this climate, I think is important and it's important to engage on that.

00:05:14.660 And I'm curious to hear if that's something that concerns you.

00:05:17.720 Yeah, no, it doesn't concern me at all, really, because I think it's just overblown.

00:05:21.840 I mean, I don't know why anybody would be offended to say that Jews are doing well in America.

00:05:25.600 They are doing well in America.

00:05:26.700 I don't say that as a way to slack off and say, oh, well, I guess we should point the finger and say that we should get everything.

00:05:33.080 It's just a fact.

00:05:33.720 Asians are also doing well.

00:05:34.980 I mean, I've said that plenty of times.

00:05:36.700 No, but what about the conspiratorial language?

00:05:38.660 I want to get to that.

00:05:40.320 So that's the first thing.

00:05:41.360 It's like I don't – I'm not going to apologize for saying something that's abundantly true, and it's not – it's literally abundantly true.

00:05:46.800 You could go and look at statistics that Jewish Americans are living really well, so I'm not going to pretend that they're not.

00:05:51.740 But to the second point about you saying that I'm engaging in conspiracy, even something as simple as saying when you say they, when did Jewish people suddenly get the right to the word they?

00:06:03.300 Like that's even like when did now they always means Jewish people.

00:06:06.520 That's a – like to me that is such a leftist.

00:06:09.200 Now we are taking this word and it implies that every time you use this English word that you've been using since you could speak English, this automatically means that you're talking about Jewish people.

00:06:17.760 And you need to be extra sensitive every time you type out this word because of October 7th.

00:06:22.700 I just can't – I just can't subject myself to that.

00:06:25.500 So if there's a specific allegation regarding a conspiracy that you think that I've perpetuated, I would like to answer for it.

00:06:30.940 But I would like a specific allegation and not just like you say they sometimes because they is a word and I have a right to use it.

00:06:38.240 Yeah, fair enough, fair enough.

00:06:39.700 I'm talking about in specifically when you're talking about a Jewish person that you feel that you've clashed with and then jump from that to say what's really going on here and not focusing on the actions of individual people but to say I'm just going to say it like there's Jewish gangs out there.

00:06:56.760 Or I'm just going to say it like this pattern of focusing on – not a lot of people know that in Nazi Germany when they were burning books, the first book they burned was a Jewish pedophile. 0.74

00:07:08.480 Was that not something you talked about on the show?

00:07:09.900 That was.

00:07:10.520 So I'm just saying in an isolated context of if we're having an academic discussion about certain things in history, I can understand wanting to be able to cover everything.

00:07:19.160 But, you know, I'll give an example like – remember the incident you had with Ted Lieu where he deliberately took you out of context to make you look guilty of saying something you didn't say?

00:07:29.160 And I thought that was despicable.

00:07:30.140 Like it was so obvious that what he was doing at the time.

00:07:32.000 But I think sometimes what you're doing, perhaps inadvertently, is in resenting being taken out of context to make yourself look guilty, you take yourself out of context to make yourself look innocent.

00:07:41.580 Yeah, but I don't take myself out of context.

00:07:43.660 I say an entire episode of what I want to say very plainly and then I'm taking it out of context because I think that after October 7th, a lot of people have grown hysterical.

00:07:52.940 And they're looking for every time you talk about a Jewish person. 0.66

00:07:55.440 Case in point, obviously, rather notoriously when Andrew Klavan, and you just referenced it, talking about Magnus Hirschfeld and his institute being burned to the ground. 0.99

00:08:03.280 You know, this Jewish pervert happens to be Jewish pervert. 0.99

00:08:06.260 Out of context, meaning that you stripped that I mentioned for Christians in that exact same monologue for Christians that I was talking about psychology and the fact that it was created by a lot of perverts. 0.96

00:08:17.040 And I talked about for Christians before I got to Magnus Hirschfeld.

00:08:20.860 How do you just completely strip that out and pretend that this was a monologue about Jewish people?

00:08:25.320 Actually, what's really happening is that you are defending Jewish people because every time you hear a Jewish name, you think that you somehow have a right to, you know, defend it.

00:08:34.560 And to the second point, I'll tell you what really bothers me about this.

00:08:37.100 When you say you're talking about Jewish gangs, Jewish gangs have always existed in America.

00:08:40.440 So I don't know why this is like suddenly something that we're going, you can't say that there could plausibly be a Jewish gang.

00:08:45.440 Yeah. You know who else has always existed? Black gangs. 1.00

00:08:47.540 I talked about it regularly all throughout BLM, talked about gangs. 0.90

00:08:50.700 I talked about black gang violence the entire time today on my show.

00:08:53.700 I was talking about Lil RT and how he's going to end up in prison.

00:08:56.440 But for some reason, Jewish people think that they're just like in a special category where you're just not allowed to ever allege that they were in gangs, even though there's nonstop evidence in American history that Jewish gangs did exist.

00:09:08.720 And they had a ton of power.

00:09:10.860 You know, you can go back to prohibition.

00:09:12.860 You can go back to the Jewish gangs that, you know, were quite literally the Jewish Defense League that were putting bombs under people's cars.

00:09:19.600 So to say that you can't imply and it wasn't even me who implied, by the way, I was actually going back historically and talking about what Michael Jackson was implying as I was reading Diddy Docs and saying that we keep hearing this allegation that's being made in Hollywood. 0.58

00:09:32.340 To say that you don't have a right to even imply there's a Jewish gang is just a nonsense.

00:09:35.700 If I have a right to imply there are black gangs and talk about black gangs, I certainly have a right to say that there are Jewish gangs and imply that there could be a Jewish gang. 0.87

00:09:42.580 I'm not saying you don't have a right or a legal right to say these things, but I'm just in terms of a pattern of things and an inference of things and assuming something, you know, one of the things that you were a student pointing out during BLM, right, was that what was the fundamental flaw there?

00:09:56.920 OK, it's that. They were assuming that because of an incident with a white police officer and and somebody on a black individual and something took place or somebody was killed, that must mean that there is a systemic problem of white racism targeting black people in the United States.

00:10:14.520 And you and you spoke out against that. And so the generalization taking single incidences and assuming there's something bigger or grander going on is seems to me what you're doing with the Jewish community when you take certain instances that have happened historically or whatever and jumping to these conclusions in the way you're engaging with it.

00:10:31.600 I didn't jump to a conclusion. That episode was me quite literally reading through the Diddy Docs and the allegations that were made in the lawsuit.

00:10:38.120 And then a tick tocker did an entire video talking about how these were the same allegations that were made by Michael Jackson.

00:10:44.340 And he didn't do that to create a conspiracy. It was quite literally the person that was involved in the Diddy lawsuit was the person that was there when Michael Jackson died.

00:10:53.040 So there was a direct tie. So, again, you say I take myself out of context. You're taking me out of context.

00:10:58.260 I wasn't like, here's an episode where I think that Jews are conspiring to control Hollywood.

00:11:02.640 And, again, like I said, if the feedback from these individuals during the time of BLM was, Candace, you can't talk about black people conspiring to commit crimes and gangs that are rising up because of BLM, because slavery existed and this isn't a racism, then I'd say, OK, fine, fair bait. 0.92

00:11:18.100 But it feels exceptional to me that the same people who applauded me for this exact same rhetoric, and I'm going to give you an example here, David Horowitz, David Horowitz of the Horowitz Freedom Center, he's a despicable human being.

00:11:29.860 How dare you give me a literal award, an award, and say you are so brave for tackling BLM and talking about all of the ills of Black Lives Matter and talking about how we're using this one issue and they're destroying communities and they're doing all of that. 0.99

00:11:43.080 And then when I say, oh, wow, look at this issue going on post-October 7th, you suddenly go, no, you're an anti-Semite of the week and you deserve to have your entire life destroyed. 0.98

00:11:53.720 I just, I don't accept Jewish supremacy. 0.63

00:11:55.580 And that's what it sounds like to me when you have individuals who didn't care when I said the exact same thing, who still don't care, as I still cover Black American issues like Sexy Red and Cardi B and talk about how their fame is completely fake and that there's some system that allows this fame to float to the top. 0.88

00:12:11.100 And yet you're so sensitive if it has to do with a Jewish person.

00:12:14.280 Also white people.

00:12:15.280 The people that get the most coverage on my show are white people.

00:12:18.600 I'm constantly pointing to what's happening in their TikTok trends and what they're doing.

00:12:22.140 And they're not offended.

00:12:23.680 So it actually, to me, is like snowflake culture that's gone writ large in the Jewish community. 0.94

00:12:28.580 And they're just calling everything anti-Semitism like Black Americans called everything racism in 2020.

00:12:33.020 And I'm consistent.

00:12:34.140 I find it boring.

00:12:34.940 And I'm not going to be, like, persuaded against talking about these topics because there's a Jewish sensitivity.

00:12:41.460 So this is a great conversation.

00:12:43.340 I mean, Ami and I are just talking purely.

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00:13:41.340 Right. Well, I mean, I find it really interesting because I think the way you're coming at it is as if the Jewish community is acting woke and snowflakey. 1.00

00:13:49.900 And the way I'm coming at it from seeing what you're saying is that, is like using woke collectivist sort of leftist tactics and sort of generalizing about groups and using Jewish, like using the identity as paramount, as if that's relevant in any way to the stories you're covering.

00:14:07.000 But I didn't say it was relevant.

00:14:08.460 That's what I'm saying. I never said that it was relevant that Magnus Hirschfeld was a Jew, no more than I said that the four other people that I had mentioned before I got to Magnus Hirschfeld.

00:14:17.580 Sigmund Freud was also in that segment. He happens to be Jewish.

00:14:20.860 But I also didn't say that their Judaism was the reason for this, or if you view it as a race, that because they're racially Jewish, that this was the reason for this.

00:14:30.140 I never connected that dot. I simply said their names, and Jewish people got offended. 0.99

00:14:34.460 They just cannot handle that there could have been a Jewish pervert that existed and had a weird sex institute, and he wasn't pervert. 0.98

00:14:42.040 I'm sorry. Magnus Hirschfeld was a pervert. 0.99

00:14:43.760 I find it weird and extraordinary that someone would race to defend a pervert. 0.99

00:14:47.520 Like if someone was like, hey, here's a black pedophile. 1.00

00:14:50.280 I'm not like, how dare you talk about this black pedophile? 1.00

00:14:53.340 We're going to defend this black pedophile. 1.00

00:14:54.960 How dare you talk about this at all? 1.00

00:14:56.520 I find that to be quite bizarre.

00:14:58.860 Like you don't, you're actually not required because you're a Jewish person, and this guy happens to be Jewish, to defend him, Magnus Hirschfeld, because he has nothing to do with the Jewish faith.

00:15:09.320 Right, but if you went on to say in several pattern of episodes in which every time you said, I'm just asking questions as a black pedophile, I don't know what's going on with black people, but something's going on here. 0.67

00:15:20.180 And then when black people got offended, you would say, why can't I, like making it part of the narrative is what's very concerning.

00:15:25.640 But you're making that up.

00:15:26.040 You don't have several episodes where I said, I'm not going to, that's just you kind of saying that right now.

00:15:31.200 You gave a specific example about Magnus Hirschfeld, and I told you this was an episode where I was talking about psychology, and I had listed four Christians in that exact same monologue.

00:15:39.760 No Christians, no Christians were outraged because no Christians are snowflakes, right? 0.99

00:15:44.400 So they weren't like, why is Candace pointing out what the Christians are, that there were Christian perverts in the past? 0.90

00:15:50.600 And yet the Jewish community post-October 7th has gotten a little snowflakey. 0.99

00:15:54.320 Everybody can see that, except even speaking to your point, by the way, and I'm sorry to cut you off here because this kind of even proves it further.

00:16:01.580 When we first began that conversation with Dave Smith, and you were talking about these people online that hate Jews, you know, these anonymous accounts.

00:16:08.680 And I had a Jewish friend who had messaged me and asked me, can you publicly disavow these people that are saying bad stuff about Jews?

00:16:15.020 What an absurd notion.

00:16:16.960 Welcome to the Internet.

00:16:18.220 Every time I've logged on since I've said I was anti-BLM, I'm being called a coon.

00:16:23.000 I'm being called an N-word.

00:16:24.560 I'm being called a house N-word.

00:16:26.380 And I've never reached out to my Jewish friends and said, hey, could you do me a favor and disavow these random accounts on the Internet?

00:16:32.020 It's like, grow up.

00:16:33.200 I'm sorry.

00:16:33.940 If this is too much for you to handle on Twitter, log off.

00:16:37.420 You're adults.

00:16:37.940 This is how the Internet works. 1.00

00:16:39.180 Have you even played the stupid game the boys like to play? 1.00

00:16:41.920 Have you ever read that chat on, what is it called? 1.00

00:16:48.080 Grand Theft Auto?

00:16:48.860 I don't know.

00:16:49.240 I think it's Grand Theft Auto or one of the ones where they—

00:16:51.200 Yes, there's atrocious things on the Internet.

00:16:52.960 Welcome to it.

00:16:53.360 It's like, where is everybody going to defend us from these anonymous trolls online?

00:16:57.260 I'm like, goodbye.

00:16:58.420 I'm sorry.

00:16:58.960 I'm 35 years old.

00:17:00.140 If you need your hands held because there's anonymous accounts that are saying means up to you on the Internet, then you got to log off.

00:17:05.400 You just got to log off.

00:17:06.160 And you shouldn't be in politics at all.

00:17:07.220 You really shouldn't. 0.92

00:17:07.800 You're too soft to be in politics.

00:17:09.060 Can I ask you?

00:17:09.580 I didn't bring this up in the last conversation because I think it just would have distracted from the issue that we were discussing.

00:17:13.900 But something—a clear example of this that I'd say raises legitimate concerns.

00:17:18.440 So—and I saw you talk about this with Piers Morgan, too, when he brought up Kanye West and those remarks.

00:17:22.620 Okay, so I know you're bored of the subject, but just for the sake of clarity, what Kanye West said, I'm going DEFCON 3 on Jewish people, nothing to do with Israel, nothing to do with policies at DEFCON 3 on Jewish people.

00:17:35.240 And you admitted, I think, in videos after that, from what I've seen, and it could be stuff I haven't seen, but from what I've seen, you admitted I fumbled on that a little bit and I could have been more clear.

00:17:42.200 The amount of—does it concern you, or you can see why it concerns us, that while you may have had a lot of information going on behind the scenes that may have clouded your judgment on how to respond to that,

00:17:55.720 I would simply say, first of all, you can have a personal relationship with somebody and a friendship with someone and care about them and not condemn—and not condone what they say.

00:18:05.760 In other words, so the inability to make that separation, like, this is clearly not anti-Semitic if you're thinking about this.

00:18:11.200 I mean, it clearly was, and does it concern you?

00:18:14.240 And you see how it concerns us that many millions of people, lots and lots and lots of people, responded positively to that.

00:18:20.280 And when we see things like Kanye speaks truth or he's on to something, and then subsequent after that, going on, Alex Jones and speaking the way he spoke about Jews,

00:18:29.420 and for that to be received the way it is, it's very, very, very unsettling for us.

00:18:35.400 Can you see that?

00:18:36.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:18:36.300 Why that would be—

00:18:36.800 I've multiple times said, like you just admitted, that I understand how people were perceiving this 100%.

00:18:44.060 But that's not a—

00:18:44.600 That Candace, it seems like she's not saying enough or she's not being defensive enough.

00:18:49.100 And I also did an episode saying I can understand how my friends like Dennis Prager and Marisha Street may have read that.

00:18:56.740 But also—and this, again, gets into the conversation that we just had—when you're sitting with your friend and they're receiving text messages from someone that's threatening to take their children and drug them,

00:19:06.500 and they snap, like, you can be also understanding to that.

00:19:10.440 And obviously, I had assumed he would tell that to the public sooner than he had told them.

00:19:16.880 And so, yeah, did I perfectly deal with that situation with one of the most famous people in the world who I happen to be friends with,

00:19:24.260 and knowing what he was going through, not just from one person who happens to be Jewish, Harley Pasternak,

00:19:28.980 but also multiple people who were doing those things to him.

00:19:32.300 It's just—it was an imperfect situation.

00:19:34.200 It was almost an impossible situation.

00:19:35.840 And I've owned that.

00:19:36.740 I've said, listen, I totally get how you perceived that, and I am sorry that you felt that way.

00:19:42.120 I dealt with the hand, you know, and people said, I'll never listen to you again for it.

00:19:46.940 You know, I've taken my punishment for it, and I'm, you know—

00:19:51.440 But to call it a perception, when so clearly it was very clear what he said was so anti-Semitic, unapologetically.

00:19:58.740 But he was not talking about—when he specifically wrote that tweet, he was talking about Jewish people in his life who he felt were messing with him.

00:20:07.500 And I could give you more names than Harley Pasternak, okay?

00:20:11.120 I get it.

00:20:11.600 But you knew that.

00:20:12.520 But the point is that, like, to then—so you're just saying, well, no, he meant all Jews.

00:20:15.300 He didn't.

00:20:15.760 He actually didn't, which is the reason why, as I was going through the situation, I was hoping he would be more understanding.

00:20:22.520 And as people rightly pointed out, he then went on Piers Morgan and clarified instantly that he didn't mean all Jewish people.

00:20:28.140 And so—

00:20:28.620 Then he went on Alex Jones and said, I love Hitler. 0.77

00:20:30.440 Yeah, but Ami, that was weeks later.

00:20:31.920 So you're talking—you can only hold me account to, like, you're talking about my response.

00:20:35.820 I'm just based on what you just said.

00:20:37.060 Yeah, you're talking about my instant response to the DEFCON 3 tweet.

00:20:39.760 That was the only statement that I had made, which was immediately after that there was stuff going on in his personal life that had inspired those tweets.

00:20:45.320 But now to kind of hold the mirror up to you, and this is what I said to Piers Morgan, like, the Jewish community reaction to that, very strong.

00:20:54.420 Cancel Kanye.

00:20:55.260 He's lost his entire life.

00:20:56.520 His marriage fell apart.

00:20:57.900 You know, he should never have a record deal of stadium ever again.

00:21:02.000 And then you're—but you're so forgiving when Bibi Netanyahu goes a literal DEFCON 3 on Palestinians.

00:21:09.600 People are so forgiving when Rabbi Shmuley harasses me for two years openly.

00:21:13.860 I didn't see if—where is the response?

00:21:15.940 Where is the cancel Rabbi Shmuley, get him out of here, he's awful? 1.00

00:21:19.220 It's just not the same treatment.

00:21:20.720 For whatever reason, Harley Pasternak's text message to Kanye, okay, he should never be welcomed in polite society ever again.

00:21:28.480 That is how demonic it was, way worse than what Kanye tweeted about going DEFCON 3 on Jewish people.

00:21:32.500 You're talking about going after someone's kids and drugging them, okay?

00:21:36.380 That's a real threat, not something that you're going, what does this mean, and I'm kind of panicking.

00:21:40.580 That's a real threat.

00:21:41.920 Nobody cared.

00:21:42.600 It was a blip in the headlines.

00:21:44.240 So that is the reason why people at this time then will say, okay, why does it seem that Jewish people are able to get away with more? 0.91

00:21:53.280 You have a black man who did something, it was wrong, he got hit down.

00:21:56.000 You know, you have a Jewish person, they are just feeling so comfortable. 0.67

00:21:59.760 Like Rabbi Shmuley, he's like, I can do a two-year open harassment campaign, no one's going to touch me.

00:22:03.920 What is that?

00:22:04.780 If we can't call that Jewish supremacy, what can we call it? 0.98

00:22:07.920 Okay, so first of all, the comments that Kanye made on their own, you knowing all that information is irrelevant to the fact that what he said was inflammatory and anti-Semitic.

00:22:18.640 What was the rest of his tweet?

00:22:19.500 Everyone always has DEFCON 3 on some Jewish people, but what was the other half of Kanye's tweet?

00:22:23.340 On Jewish people?

00:22:24.260 Yeah.

00:22:24.600 But he went, what was the other half of Kanye's tweet, you tell me?

00:22:27.020 Yeah, exactly.

00:22:27.820 The other half of his tweet, he said that had been messing with him for too long.

00:22:31.280 He didn't just say, I'm going DEFCON 3 on Jewish people and tweet.

00:22:34.340 It's all everyone talks about.

00:22:35.720 He didn't name individuals.

00:22:36.760 Yeah, but it was very clear that he was talking about something that was wrong.

00:22:39.220 You could have guessed there was more here.

00:22:40.880 There was more here because he said, who have been messing with me for too long, okay?

00:22:45.940 Right, but then as you, look, as you agreed, weeks later, he went on to Alex Jones and these things and said, I love Hitler and just doubled down on the anti-Semitism.

00:22:53.900 That is 100%.

00:22:55.820 You're not accountable for that.

00:22:56.960 Exactly, because what you're asking me is you're saying, Candace, your initial response when he said this tweet, this is what people have tried to hang me on.

00:23:03.880 This was an example of anti-Semitism, was that you said, hold on here, he's not going to go blow up Israel, okay?

00:23:11.180 He's not going to war with Jewish people.

00:23:12.860 Let's just hang on and allow him to explain this.

00:23:15.160 That's literally all I said, and there was a cancel Candace campaign. 0.99

00:23:18.400 That is what started Rabbi Shrulli's nonstop harassment of me.

00:23:21.680 Me saying, let's hang on and hear what else he has to say.

00:23:25.000 Like, that was the greatest example of anti-Semitism that people could ever pull of Candace Owens. 1.00

00:23:28.720 And I'm like, well, if that's your greatest example, like, you're not sounding like you're not exactly presenting very strong evidence that I'm anti-Semitic, especially because I have owned that in the moment, again, me having too much information, did I fumble the ball?

00:23:41.560 I wish I could have said more, but it wasn't my place to say what he was going through personally.

00:23:45.940 And again, it is annoying that people always cut his tweet in half, because he said more that would let people know that he didn't mean all Jews in the world, you know?

00:23:53.980 Right.

00:23:55.680 Did the rest of the tweets say that?

00:23:57.040 No, I don't mean all Jews.

00:23:57.800 I'm going to pull it up right now.

00:23:58.400 I mean two specific Jews.

00:23:59.140 Okay.

00:24:00.420 What's interesting is, from my perspective, just so you can understand, it's like, from my perspective, Jews are one of the few people you can say, you know, there's two different things.

00:24:09.640 People are watching two different screens here, Candace.

00:24:11.380 It's like, you're saying Jews are supremacists and you can't say anything about them.

00:24:15.620 And I'm saying Jews are one of the few people you can say, and probably white people too, generally speaking, and it gets bundled to do that as far as the left is concerned.

00:24:21.540 You can say whatever you want about it and pretty much get away with it.

00:24:24.320 Do you think if Kanye dropped an album tomorrow, it would do well?

00:24:27.280 Well, he dropped an album and it went to number one.

00:24:30.140 Right.

00:24:30.460 Well, that's because black Americans think that what happened to him was wrong, you know? 0.96

00:24:34.300 So it's his own culture.

00:24:35.920 I don't think Jewish Americans were the number one buyers, if that's what you're asking me.

00:24:39.820 And so he-

00:24:40.600 Well, not Jewish Americans, but he was able to get away with it. 1.00

00:24:43.640 Well-

00:24:44.360 Talking badly about Jews.

00:24:45.760 He's no longer a billionaire, right?

00:24:46.960 I mean, he took away his Adidas deal.

00:24:48.820 And listen, I'm not here to litigate whether or not Kanye deserved it.

00:24:52.660 I'm here only to defend what I actually said and how taken and how extraordinarily blown up it was as if I had actually sent the tweet that he said.

00:25:00.120 And yes, the rest of his tweet was, the funny thing is I actually can't be anti-Semitic because black people are also Jews, are actually Jews also, pardon.

00:25:08.440 You guys have toyed with me and you've tried to blackball anyone, whoever opposes your agenda.

00:25:13.860 That was his tweet that he wrote.

00:25:15.780 That doesn't help.

00:25:17.640 I don't think that helps.

00:25:19.280 You guys have toyed with me.

00:25:21.000 Like, I would just imagine that when he said-

00:25:22.800 You guys have toyed with me.

00:25:23.480 And also the beginning of a tweet.

00:25:24.460 I'm a bit sleepy tonight, but when I wake up, like, did you think that he was actually going to kill Jewish people when he woke up?

00:25:29.000 Like, I'm going to ask you that question.

00:25:30.220 Did you think that when Kanye woke up, he was going to actually kill Jewish people or did you think that he was going to go after certain Jewish people? 0.93

00:25:36.220 Did you think Jews were going to try to kill you, the ones who were canceling you? 1.00

00:25:39.400 And I literally never said that the guy, the people who were canceling me were going to kill me.

00:25:44.180 What are you talking about?

00:25:45.520 I think in, we don't have to name names, but in, like, your whole beef with Rabbi Shmueli, are you trying to kill me? 0.84

00:25:50.240 What are you going to kill me?

00:25:50.980 I said, well, I said, what's next? 0.98

00:25:52.520 I said, you've already done this.

00:25:53.400 You've already said this.

00:25:54.280 Like, literally, what's next?

00:25:55.340 And that was very tongue-in-cheek.

00:25:56.940 Like, I didn't think Rabbi Shmueli was going to hunt down and come kill me.

00:25:59.160 It was tongue-in-cheek as if, like, you've thrown everything at the wall here.

00:26:02.520 Like, what is actually next?

00:26:04.400 Can I ask you another question?

00:26:06.160 Just this, like, a personal question.

00:26:08.480 Because you said this album went to number one, certainly not with the Jewish community, but with the black community who sympathized with what Kanye was saying.

00:26:14.920 Like, growing up, like, did you, was there a lot of anti-white racism you came up against in the black community growing up, like, against white people?

00:26:24.460 It's a personal question, because I'm just curious.

00:26:26.980 What I, that I came up against, like, as a black person?

00:26:31.420 Just, like, witnessing it in the community, in your experience growing up.

00:26:35.760 In my experience growing up, everyone got along.

00:26:36.340 Did you notice a lot of anti-white racism?

00:26:38.500 And things have since gotten worse, which is quite weird to me.

00:26:41.520 And it's something that I think I've been trying to understand.

00:26:43.260 And I think a lot of it has to do with politics and has to do with sensitivities that are being perpetuated, really, in the media.

00:26:49.300 Like, people are being propagandized into believing that they should see each other as other.

00:26:53.220 But I feel like, I always say the 90s was, like, the golden decade.

00:26:55.900 Like, everyone was, like, cool.

00:26:57.620 We all laughed at each other, made fun of each other for our differences.

00:27:00.760 Like, you could throw a Jewish joke, throw a black joke, and we laughed. 0.99

00:27:03.260 And then, I would say, maybe since Barack Obama became president around that time, I'm not trying to pin the blame on him.

00:27:09.140 Things have definitely dramatically shifted, and people have gotten very-

00:27:11.800 And race relations generally, you mean?

00:27:13.480 Yeah.

00:27:13.600 Race relations generally deteriorated.

00:27:14.560 Generally, people got along growing up.

00:27:16.760 Right.

00:27:17.880 Okay.

00:27:18.240 And I'm curious as far as, regarding the subject of anti-Semitism generally, I think this whole notion that you keep bringing back to of Jewish supremacy, which is interesting to me.

00:27:33.580 Jews don't want to be held to a different standard than everybody else in terms of criticism.

00:27:37.420 We just want to be held to the same standard.

00:27:39.340 And I'm speaking for myself, seeing it as being held to the same standard as far as criticism.

00:27:44.300 And like you said, Kanye's album went to number one, so therefore, I don't know if the social consequences of saying certain things-

00:27:51.480 And listen, free speech, free speech, even hate speech can be protected speech.

00:27:55.140 That makes you free from legal consequences, but it doesn't make you free from any consequences when you say certain things.

00:28:00.720 So to conflate the two, I think, has been a mistake in this conversation about free speech.

00:28:04.600 And my larger point was that in terms of supremacy, which is such a loaded word, first of all, yeah, I don't think anybody's inherent identity or immutable characteristic makes them better than anyone else.

00:28:19.900 So I agree with you about equality, that we're all equal under the law, and whoever we're born to and whatever group we belong to doesn't make us better or worse than anyone else.

00:28:29.700 But culture and practice and ritual, we all make kinds of different decisions and value judgments.

00:28:36.340 For example, and everyone has sort of the groups they're close to and communities we come from, and we take pride in those things.

00:28:44.540 So, for example, do you think- your whole contention is, like, Jews think they're above scrutiny and better than everybody else?

00:28:52.500 Is that the idea?

00:28:53.140 I would never make that statement, because that's a very broad statement.

00:28:56.340 But like I said, Rabbi Barclay is obviously a Jewish supremacist.

00:28:59.540 I mean, that's, like, so obvious to me that he's a Jew supremacist. 0.51

00:29:02.060 All right.

00:29:02.260 I don't want to speak for him, but my point to you is, like, you know, do you think Christianity and Christians who follow is better than other religions?

00:29:12.460 Yeah, that's why I'm a Christian.

00:29:13.500 I think that if- I think-

00:29:15.100 So would that make you a Christian supremacist?

00:29:16.860 Well, you're talking- Jews view themselves- a lot of Jews view themselves as a race.

00:29:20.580 So, I mean, Christianity- 0.95

00:29:22.220 Jews are multiracial.

00:29:23.780 Multiracial.

00:29:24.700 Honestly, that's the first time I've heard that, because if you ask other people that are pro-Israel, they'll say that they view Jew as a race.

00:29:31.040 Like, if you ask them what they're racial-

00:29:32.620 As a people, as a people, yeah.

00:29:34.400 So that's a bit confusing, right?

00:29:35.740 So I don't know if- I don't know who I'm- it depends on who I'm speaking to.

00:29:39.080 Some people say to be a Jew is to be- that you racially identify as a Jew.

00:29:42.380 Other people say, you know, we are different than white people, obviously, even though we're from Eastern Europe, we are our own race.

00:29:47.660 Hence, the entire reason, like, that many of them-

00:29:50.380 Right.

00:29:51.080 Whatever.

00:29:51.600 It's very confusing.

00:29:52.440 But to answer- to answer your point, you know, Christianity is a doctrine.

00:29:58.200 And I believe that if, you know, Christian- if Christianity was spread about the world, you would see a better world.

00:30:06.500 That is my belief.

00:30:07.680 But it's not a race, right?

00:30:09.260 So it's like there's nothing that's barring anybody else from having a Christian perspective.

00:30:13.180 You can be a Christian tomorrow.

00:30:15.160 Racial supremacy is a immutable characteristic. 1.00

00:30:17.880 And I think if you even Googled it, I think it is now officially, like, Judaism is a race. 0.95

00:30:22.680 It's considered, like, Jew is a race.

00:30:24.440 It's its own set apart from other races. 1.00

00:30:26.460 They don't consider themselves white.

00:30:27.720 Do you consider yourself white?

00:30:30.280 Anti-Semites don't consider-

00:30:32.460 I'm from, like, the Nazi regime.

00:30:35.160 We're the ones who really delved into this whole idea of Jews being a race by blood. 0.76

00:30:39.300 And therefore, there's a racial component to being Jewish, but there are black Jews, there are white Jews, Hispanic Jews, multiracial, multiethnic that are all Jews. 0.50

00:30:46.100 So just to dispel the notion narrowly that Jews is race, we also- people can convert to Judaism, as you mentioned before.

00:30:50.560 Right, so that's why it's very confusing.

00:30:51.280 And therefore, you can't change your race, but you can't-

00:30:53.500 So Rabbi Wolpe, a man I really admire, who phrased it this way, that to be Jewish is to be part of a Jewish family, that you come from a peoplehood, from a culture.

00:31:03.160 And there's nothing wrong with Jews feeling, to me, like they're mission-driven to have a certain role in the world.

00:31:10.080 To me, that's okay, just like you are mission-driven as an individual and as a Christian, to feel that you have a role in the world to play.

00:31:16.500 And part of the Jewish role that we believe is in terms of bringing godliness into the world, like, these are values that I would think you would also stand by and advocate for.

00:31:25.100 And everybody, in other words, the fact that you think Christianity should- everyone should be, like, it doesn't bother me that you believe that.

00:31:30.940 In a world that we can respect each other's differences and we have- we are a tolerant society, like, you can believe that.

00:31:36.600 And as long as you're not forcing me to do anything, like, I think that's great.

00:31:39.960 And I can believe-

00:31:40.100 I feel like me saying, I think everyone should be-

00:31:41.780 Not in supremacy, but in dignity and difference.

00:31:44.480 I believe everyone should be a conservative, a free market capitalist.

00:31:47.260 Here are my reasons why, but-

00:31:48.500 Yeah, there are better ideas.

00:31:49.660 So there's supremacists in terms of- the word supremacy is what I'm really objecting to when you use that word, because it is such a loaded term in terms of- I think it's just a misnomer for the situation to believe that you have a role to play, that you're proud of coming from a common culture and a common people that has contributed in a lot of ways.

00:32:05.780 And even Christianity and Judaism have a shared history, and that's a beautiful thing.

00:32:10.100 So I just don't- I reject that use of that language.

00:32:13.920 I don't think it's helpful, and I think it's-

00:32:15.880 Well, I think people just shouldn't be Jew supremacists, right?

00:32:18.040 So it's like saying, like, I reject the idea.

00:32:20.320 Are there white supremacists?

00:32:21.260 Yes.

00:32:21.500 Are the majority of people white supremacists?

00:32:23.080 No.

00:32:23.680 Are there black supremacists? 0.64

00:32:25.200 Yes.

00:32:25.440 We saw that a lot during BLM, especially.

00:32:28.000 They were making demands that were absolutely insane, and there was a lower value placed on white life.

00:32:33.480 Does every white- 0.94

00:32:34.400 As every black person of black supremacists? 0.92

00:32:36.160 No. 0.99

00:32:36.600 But you have to call it out when you see it, right?

00:32:39.000 But is everyone who criticizes you a Jewish supremacist?

00:32:40.760 Supremacy will thrive if you don't have the courage to call it out.

00:32:42.360 And unfortunately, I think any person objectively listening to the conversation between me and Rabbi Barclay would reasonably acknowledge that he is a supremacist.

00:32:50.700 Now, I don't find that to be problematic because what he says has not become law.

00:32:54.960 You know what I mean?

00:32:55.400 It's not like he says this and suddenly it's law, and his perspective prevails today.

00:32:58.560 So you don't have to care.

00:32:59.340 No.

00:32:59.800 And because I know the majority of my Jewish friends don't think like that.

00:33:02.740 So that's why I clown on him even harder because it's like you are actually not representative of the Jewish community. 1.00

00:33:09.560 You kind of lost the plot.

00:33:11.220 No more than Rabbi Shmuley is representative of the Jewish community. 0.97

00:33:14.300 I went after these people not because they were representative of the Jewish community, but because they were attacking me. 1.00

00:33:18.960 That was it.

00:33:19.520 That was the only reason, which is why I-

00:33:21.040 But I want to-

00:33:22.280 Yeah, sorry to cut you off.

00:33:23.540 On the Barclay conversation, there was one moment that came up that I think really needs clarification,

00:33:27.800 and it was your discussion on the definition of anti-Semitism.

00:33:30.260 And I know you objected to this idea that, oh, I guess it could just be anything, anything I say.

00:33:34.420 And you see a lot of bad actors on Twitter and online talking about how, I guess, just speaking truth is anti-Semitic, which is such a-

00:33:40.060 Like, there is a catch-22, as I mentioned earlier, about when somebody says something in Cindy Ray and you call it out as anti-Semitic,

00:33:46.300 all of a sudden that feeds into the notion that Jews are somehow controlling speech.

00:33:50.340 But the point is, the definition of anti-Semitism doesn't change. 0.98

00:33:54.220 It is always fixed as the, call it what you want, Jew hatred, hating Jews and being hostile to Jews, wishing them harm. 0.65

00:34:02.640 We understand each other. 0.95

00:34:04.140 Anti-Semitism means that. 0.67

00:34:05.340 Well, no, it doesn't mean that.

00:34:06.360 A racial bias.

00:34:07.080 Anti-Semitism does not just imply Jews, right?

00:34:10.100 It's anti-Semitic to say things against Palestinians as well.

00:34:12.860 Anti-Semitic to say things against Arabs.

00:34:14.020 Well, this is semantics.

00:34:14.640 That's not semantics.

00:34:15.060 In the current vernacular, when we say anti-Semitism, we're talking about Jews.

00:34:19.620 But for the sake of argument, Jew hatred. 0.94

00:34:21.600 Let's call it Jew hatred, okay? 1.00

00:34:23.720 Because, yes, there are Semitic peoples, and academically it's understood that there are different Semitic peoples.

00:34:28.440 In today's current language, in the vernacular, when we talk about anti-Semitism, we're talking about Jews.

00:34:33.040 But let's just say Jew hatred for the sake of argument and for the conversation. 0.60

00:34:37.040 It's not that the definition of Jew hatred changes and evolves and is a shape-shifting definition.

00:34:44.360 It's the reasons and causes of anti-Semitism change throughout time.

00:34:48.020 There are so many different sources of it throughout history, of hatred towards Jews, whether it's theological, in the early days of Crusades or Islamic, having to do with hostility towards Jews.

00:34:59.500 There's a theological component to it. 0.99

00:35:01.240 Economic and social and racial, as we see from Nazi Germany, deeming Jews as this other race, this dirty race, polluting our people, and we need to cleanse our society of these dirty Jews. 0.99

00:35:10.780 And this notion that some of the narratives you hear on the far right, that Jews are somehow co-opting, this sort of, they're controlling our government, they're cabals, they're behind the scenes. 0.99

00:35:21.140 The left-wing anti-Semitism, which is that the Jews are the capitalists and the exploiters.

00:35:25.260 And whenever we see wealth and power, we presume it must be exploitative.

00:35:28.820 And who's at the top of the wealth and power and who has all that?

00:35:31.420 It's the Jews or in the form of anti-Zionism against Israel. 0.65

00:35:34.220 So it just comes from different places, but we end at the same place.

00:35:37.640 So I wanted to clarify that.

00:35:38.800 There are definitively people that hate Jews.

00:35:39.740 There's no question about that.

00:35:40.660 There's obviously people—

00:35:41.240 But I just wanted to clarify what that means.

00:35:42.740 And the problem, I think, is that too many people are being thrown into this camp of people who hate Jews.

00:35:47.500 And it's just not real.

00:35:48.680 Like, I'm just—I'm not afraid to offend a Jew. 1.00

00:35:50.620 That's—whatever that is, whatever word you've got to give that, I'm not afraid to call out Jewish people when they're behaving badly, okay? 1.00

00:35:56.420 And that is offensive to some people who think that there's some special category, doesn't exist in my head or anywhere else.

00:36:02.480 So they just get offended when I say this was a bad person who was Jewish.

00:36:06.600 So let me ask you a question.

00:36:07.660 What have Jewish people done bad in human history? 0.62

00:36:13.720 What have Jewish people done bad as a whole? 1.00

00:36:16.800 Yeah, because—and don't say, like, you can't say as a whole because you just—we just had a whole conversation about, like, you know, Palestinians.

00:36:21.780 We can say blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:36:23.220 So—and I'm not saying this in a way as, like, we need to assign collective guilt.

00:36:27.000 I'm just saying, have Jewish people ever done anything bad throughout human history?

00:36:30.060 Jewish individuals certainly have done bad things. 1.00

00:36:33.940 You cannot ascribe malice to entire groups of people. 0.94

00:36:37.140 That's racist.

00:36:37.560 Okay.

00:36:37.980 So you would agree then that saying, like, the Germans is not the right thing to do, the Palestinians, this would equally be as wrong. 0.89

00:36:46.180 To say the Germans, the Palestinians, any sort of that rhetoric would be completely wrong based on your—

00:36:52.160 It's—it's low—yeah, and it's low resolution.

00:36:54.420 It's low resolution.

00:36:55.180 If we're being specific and precise in our speech, you know how I feel about Jordan Peterson, precise, you know?

00:36:59.900 Being precise in our speech, we are talking about the Nazi regime of Germany.

00:37:03.780 We're not talking about the Germans that brought pianos over to the United States.

00:37:07.160 Not the same people.

00:37:07.860 Yeah, okay, because a lot of times you will see that they're very comfortable kind of assigning collective guilt when you go backwards.

00:37:13.260 You know, like, this was done to the Jews by these people and these people and these people. 0.79

00:37:17.280 And I'm like, okay, but then suddenly, like, let's get real specific if you're talking about a bad Jewish individual.

00:37:23.000 Yes, of course.

00:37:23.940 And so it doesn't—

00:37:24.620 No, but you can't historically trace anti-Semitism towards regimes.

00:37:26.560 It would go a very long way if Jewish people would stop defending bad Jewish individuals. 0.82

00:37:32.840 It would go a very long way.

00:37:33.920 That's why I say it's, like, beyond bonkers to me that someone would defend Magnus Hirschfeld.

00:37:37.720 Like, what is the purpose of that? 0.64

00:37:38.820 Like, literally, why do you feel like you have to defend this weird pervert?

00:37:41.900 We're some of the most self-critical, self-reflective people.

00:37:44.500 We argue all the time.

00:37:45.760 We call out people amongst ourselves.

00:37:47.420 I agree with you about not having tribal allegiances and looking past morality and decency because of any sort of blind tribal allegiance.

00:37:55.180 We have to avoid that.

00:37:56.220 Just like I wouldn't ascribe collective guilt and group identity as paramount above all things.

00:38:02.460 If someone says, like, oh, there could be a Jewish gang, you're not in it.

00:38:05.640 So who cares? 0.98

00:38:06.400 There could be a black gang on the south side of Chicago. 0.95

00:38:08.260 I'm not going to be like, well, don't—we'll be careful.

00:38:10.260 Be careful when you're talking about Shug Knight and the things that he did in the past.

00:38:13.120 Be careful.

00:38:13.760 I'm just like, yeah, there's definitely Jewish gangs. 0.99

00:38:16.460 There's definitely black gangs. 0.96

00:38:17.580 There's Hispanic gangs.

00:38:18.620 And I don't need to be all sensitive about it because I'm not in them.

00:38:22.020 That's it.

00:38:22.500 And I think if you guys employed that perspective of not having to defend the plausibility of a bad person, it would go a very long way.

00:38:31.100 Just don't defend bad Jewish people because you're not them. 0.86

00:38:34.340 It's not collective.

00:38:34.980 Right.

00:38:35.360 But the context of what we're saying matters, too.

00:38:37.800 So I would say that obviously any Jewish individual who does a bad thing should be condemned. 0.99

00:38:42.280 But if you were in a context of—if you were in the south, in the KKK South at one point, and started profiling black individuals who were bad, but you continued to do it.

00:38:53.400 And it's not like you're excusing their individual behavior, but you were surrounded in a way by a culture or something that used it as red meat, who do have nefarious intentions towards innocent African Americans.

00:39:02.740 To simply be mindful of that, that that is out there, and be sensitive to that, that your words could inadvertently be used to provide.

00:39:09.960 And I'm not saying that you're doing that intentionally, and that's not what's in your heart, and that's not what your intentions are.

00:39:14.900 But for us as a community that's experiencing it and seeing it, to be mindful of that is okay.

00:39:20.440 I mean, not everything that can be said is necessarily relevant and should be said, just because it could be something true.

00:39:28.380 It's okay to be mindful of the communities around that are going through certain things, and I don't think it compromises your ability to freely express yourself or speak the truth as you see it.

00:39:38.480 Us to engage with you and let you know that this stuff is out there and brewing, and there is a deep-rooted cyclical history of this, even though in a snapshot in this moment there's certainly a lot of comfortable Jews doing okay. 0.94

00:39:49.120 In the last episode, I was moved by the fact that you told me about, and you've spoken about, your grandfather who was an extremely influential figure in your life, right?

00:39:57.520 My parents grew up on both sides, and they didn't have grandparents, and none of their friends in their community had grandparents.

00:40:04.440 They were all dead.

00:40:05.620 They were all gone.

00:40:06.500 They were all wiped out.

00:40:07.520 And one of the ways that that happened, if you look at it, historically in Germany leading up to the Holocaust and trying to figure out what exactly happened was a lot of propaganda and rhetoric over time, as Jordan Peterson has said, things get bad one small step at a time.

00:40:21.280 And it's true that incrementally, with time, building suspicion, creating a sense that Jews are above this and this and this, there's some special class, it can feed into something really, really dangerous, really nasty, really incendiary that I know you don't intend to do, and I know you care a lot about the Jewish people in your life.

00:40:37.080 So making you aware of those things is all I'm trying to do here.

00:40:40.320 Yeah, and I think that's totally fair.

00:40:41.400 You know, I think if there's any chip on my shoulder, obviously it's because, like, you just watched me take on the entire black community over George Floyd, and people were saying the same stuff.

00:40:51.060 You know, don't talk about the fact that he was a drug dealer.

00:40:52.780 Don't talk about the fact that he had all these arrests, because there's all this history in black America and all this stuff and police brutality.

00:40:57.840 And I'm like, guys, the truth is the truth.

00:41:00.480 So it is my personality, and I hope that people acknowledge that, that, okay, actually, no, for seven years she's been going at her own community over BLM.

00:41:08.300 So this is, like, not as, especially because it's Jewish people that she's doing this.

00:41:12.440 I just don't like bad faith actors, and sometimes those bad faith actors happen to be Jewish. 1.00

00:41:17.120 And if you're reading a document and that person's Jewish, or if you're reading into history and you're talking about psychology, and by the way, a lot of, you know, those early psychologists were perverts. 0.90

00:41:26.220 That's just a fact, you know, and some of them were Jewish, you know, and maybe for people that makes them uncomfortable.

00:41:31.800 But it's like, guys, just call it out, because actually that dilutes the conspiracy. 0.95

00:41:36.540 I think the conspiracy actually thrives when Jewish people defend a pervert. 1.00

00:41:41.380 I think that's not a good thing. 0.98

00:41:42.260 I think that makes them go, whoa, my God, why are they defending this weird perv?

00:41:45.700 Like, is there some conspiracy? 0.99

00:41:47.180 Whereas there's no conspiracy when you're like, yeah, no, that guy's a perv. 1.00

00:41:50.240 He has nothing to do with Jewish people, and we're not tribal with perverts and pedophiles. 0.99

00:41:54.860 Like, that goes a very long way. 0.97

00:41:55.940 Like, Sigmund Freud was defending pedophiles.

00:41:57.980 Like, it's like, let's not defend Sigmund Freud's actions on that just because he's, you know, racially a Galician Jew, you know? 0.93

00:42:04.940 Well, subjects aside, I think trust from the vehicle that information is coming from is super important.

00:42:11.720 And building that trust and establishing that trust matters.

00:42:15.500 And that's why I think you're getting the backlash, and you are connecting it to what was happening to you during the BLM-Blexit campaign.

00:42:21.280 That someone is trying to strip you of your blackness and your legitimacy as a person to comment on these issues, and all you're doing is kind of speaking the truth.

00:42:28.220 And I can see why you're connecting those dots.

00:42:30.240 The first thing I opened with in our last episode was that it's true that calling out racism or antisemitism where it doesn't exist is an unproductive thing to do, and then you don't see the real antisemitism where it does exist.

00:42:41.820 And that's what I'm drawing here is highlighting the fact that I've seen as someone who pre-October 7th did agree that, you know, Charlottesville happened, but it's those guys, and it's marginal, and it's not something we have to be super concerned about.

00:42:56.900 And there was a derangement there and a hysteria under Trump that I always downplayed as well, even as the grandchild of Holocaust survivors.

00:43:02.760 But when Israel, for example, the only Jewish state in the world, the only Jewish state, 50-plus Muslim states, there's Christian countries, other countries with ethnic characters to it, but the only Jewish state gets attacked in the way that it did, and to see mobs of people supporting it, cheering for it more and more and more, and to see criticism and not any sort of sympathy at first, in some sort of broad way, to not see that or to see the first reactions to not be sympathetic in some way was just so rattling.

00:43:31.680 And it did change my perspective in that, okay, it's not the right-wing anti-summits at first I'm really worried about.

00:43:36.300 They're marginal, and the worst ideas of the right, I think you'd agree on this, are not ascendant in society.

00:43:41.260 You don't see Nazi KKK shows on Disney+.

00:43:43.520 We just don't see that.

00:43:44.780 The worst ideas of the left, to me, have been on the ascent from the academy.

00:43:47.840 They're everywhere.

00:43:48.620 Corporate America, you know, children's programming, it's everywhere, the worst ideas of that, and viewing people in groups and hierarchies and group identity, politics and all that stuff.

00:43:56.980 But after seeing that, the anti-Semitism of the left come out, and then I'm starting to see this new sort of really troubling thing happening on the far right.

00:44:07.380 And I know Twitter's an ugly place, but I want to just talk to you, and because you have such a huge platform and such impact, and I know you want to be consistent, and I appreciate you always being open to the dialogue of it.

00:44:17.300 And that's my role here, to try to convey how that's being perceived, and I know that your intentions are good.

00:44:22.860 And I totally get that perception, by the way, because I've heard this as well, and I've tried to make people understand it, especially from the U.K., because they're saying this too, like the conservative right seems to be kind of changing on Jews.

00:44:33.560 And I had to clarify for them, no, actually, you are seeing a sentiment that's changing against Israel.

00:44:40.000 And the reason for that has got absolutely nothing to do with Jews.

00:44:42.600 Let me tell you, if October 7th happened in Boca Raton, there would not have been a question of unfettered allegiance to what was going on with Jews in America. 0.51

00:44:52.340 Israel is a different equation, and that conversation is starting to shift because, A, we see that as a foreign country.

00:44:57.620 B, people are starting to call into question a lot of things Bibi Netanyahu has said, that to me, to hear a foreign leader speak about America as if he controls it makes me uncomfortable.

00:45:06.800 And then the third thing is AIPAC, ADL, shoving through laws through Congress, John Greenblatt getting caught.

00:45:12.920 You know, if you want to talk about not giving in to Jewish conspiracies, John Greenblatt getting caught on the ADL on the hot mic, talking about how we got to get rid of TikTok, and then tomorrow it gets passed through Congress, isn't good. 0.80

00:45:23.920 You know, we want separation. We don't want Israel in any capacity controlling our speech.

00:45:30.260 The anti-Semitism bill was absolutely horrific, and it caused a reaction.

00:45:34.000 That wasn't against Jewish people.

00:45:36.820 That was against a foreign country having influence on American politics. 0.88

00:45:42.320 And I think because it's all happening at the same time, it can be hard to dilute that and go, okay, actually, this isn't about Jewish people. 0.62

00:45:48.180 They really just don't like what Israel is doing and the impact that AIPAC and ADL is having for specific reasons.

00:45:54.180 And we can disagree on that.

00:45:55.920 But what we should agree on is that actually that's nothing like, I'm free speech, more speech.

00:46:00.320 You're going to make an enemy of me if you're caught on a hot mic like Bibi Netanyahu was saying that if you criticize Israel, we're getting laws passed in America.

00:46:08.600 If you criticize Israel, it's going to be a problem in your life.

00:46:11.460 If that's gangster talk, don't care what his religion is, don't care what he thinks his race is, you got to now get out of American pockets.

00:46:20.540 That's my view on Bibi Netanyahu, which I think a lot of conservative Americans feel as well.

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00:47:31.860 Do you find it interesting or does it spark your curiosity at all as to why, when Israel is involved in a conflict or defending itself or in any sort of armed war or whatever, that it animates the world in no other way than Israel?

00:47:47.820 Like, it's like, there's so many different things going on and suffering going on around the world and innocent people and Muslims being slaughtered in Syria by Assad and all these things.

00:47:55.540 And people don't storm the streets.

00:47:56.980 But for some reason, with Israel, people get crazy. 0.94

00:48:00.140 Does it, does it, are you suspicious of that and what's going on there?

00:48:03.800 Why people get so crazy about it?

00:48:04.700 Because the media covers it.

00:48:06.260 And this kind of gets to what I was speaking to with peers.

00:48:08.080 If you go talk to the average person about what's happening to Christians in Armenia or Christians in Nigeria, nobody even knows.

00:48:13.940 But when October 7th happened, it was wall-to-wall coverage in America, as if it happened on American soil, right?

00:48:20.660 So that then made people, and it wasn't even that.

00:48:22.820 It was then they instantly condemned a lot of Americans.

00:48:26.120 And I think that upset a lot of white Americans because they were like, well, wait a second.

00:48:29.400 This has been happening to us.

00:48:30.660 This rhetoric has been happening to us on college campuses for years and no one did anything.

00:48:34.440 And then suddenly it became a mainstreamed issue.

00:48:37.900 If it was relegated to the same coverage as Nigeria and Armenia, it wouldn't have been in the forefront of people's minds.

00:48:44.460 So what we're talking about is the psychological impact of having day in and day out.

00:48:48.520 I mean, literally, I used to be like an avid reader of the New York Post.

00:48:51.700 I had to stop reading it after like two weeks.

00:48:53.500 I was like, is this even an American publication anymore?

00:48:58.640 Is this like full-time recovering Israel every minute of every day? 0.65

00:49:01.740 So I think that the response came from the fact that it was all the media would talk about.

00:49:06.300 It was all the media would talk about.

00:49:07.260 And that-

00:49:07.460 But it's the cart before the horse.

00:49:09.620 Same with Ukraine.

00:49:09.640 No one ever talks about Ukraine.

00:49:10.900 And then suddenly, you know, Russia invades Ukraine and you couldn't go through it.

00:49:14.540 Suddenly, I'm like, when have we ever spoken about Ukraine here?

00:49:16.920 And now everyone's got an opinion about Ukraine.

00:49:18.640 So that's just the power of the media to make something a bigger issue.

00:49:22.020 But you could see why from the Jewish community's perspective and the pro-Israel Jewish community's

00:49:26.700 perspective, why everyone gets so fixated and the media does decide to put a spotlight

00:49:30.560 and scrutinize every military operation in Israel like they do with nothing else is a

00:49:35.140 call for suspicion as to this is more than just being critical of an ally of the United

00:49:39.680 States that it supports.

00:49:40.920 There's something else going on here.

00:49:42.340 What's different about Israel than any of these other countries?

00:49:44.640 What's different?

00:49:45.040 Well, our relationship with Israel is different, I would say.

00:49:47.340 And I think actually the coverage was-

00:49:50.500 We fund lots of countries.

00:49:51.580 I mean, we give a lot of aid to a lot of countries.

00:49:53.160 But somehow when AIPAC is advocating for legislation-

00:49:55.680 Yeah, well, AIPAC pays journalists.

00:49:56.860 You know what I mean?

00:49:57.060 This is part of the problem where they were covering this issue feverishly.

00:50:01.740 And I mean, on the New York Post, there are literal journalists who are in the IDF.

00:50:06.300 You can just see it right on their thing.

00:50:07.740 So there is this sort of marriage between America and Israel.

00:50:12.100 And so I think what you could be reading as, well, why is it Israel?

00:50:15.240 Part of it has to do with the fact because the media is insisting on us covering Israeli

00:50:20.520 issues as if it's American.

00:50:21.920 And so then people started paying attention to what was happening.

00:50:24.460 I actually think if they didn't cover it, you wouldn't have seen any of those protests.

00:50:28.420 But most of the Western media coverage of Israel is hostile.

00:50:32.400 Oh, see, I don't-

00:50:33.140 Maybe it's because of the publications I read, but I would disagree with that.

00:50:36.320 But I don't read leftist publications.

00:50:37.800 So I'm biased.

00:50:39.000 I'm reading the New York Post.

00:50:40.720 I'm reading the Daily Mail, the Wall Street Journal.

00:50:43.440 And I would not say, I would say it's above and, like, very pro-Israel.

00:50:46.760 That speaks to the algorithmic realities we live in and what you're seeing.

00:50:49.760 And we get this written read.

00:50:51.240 But I would tell you, internationally, the BBC, CNN, MSNBC, most of the-

00:50:56.120 Well, you would agree most of media is left-wing.

00:50:57.720 Well, you better read different-

00:50:59.480 What are you doing watching CNN?

00:51:00.720 That's a bigger problem.

00:51:01.820 What are you doing watching CNN and MSNBC?

00:51:03.440 Most of media, we talk about it all the time, right?

00:51:05.940 You talk about it all the time.

00:51:06.680 Most of mainstream media, it leans left.

00:51:08.160 That is true.

00:51:08.680 I just don't read it.

00:51:09.300 There's only a few on the right that year.

00:51:09.880 So to be fair, I don't read it.

00:51:10.460 And I can tell you this.

00:51:11.700 They're hostile towards Israel.

00:51:13.180 They have no-

00:51:14.020 It's all Israel's fault. 1.00

00:51:15.820 It's all like that point.

00:51:16.920 So that's the thing.

00:51:18.380 This obsession with the Jewish state. 0.83

00:51:19.900 I mean, that's what Douglas Murray astutely says all done.

00:51:22.080 There's tons of suffering all over the world. 0.52

00:51:23.760 But nobody cares because they hate the Jews. 1.00

00:51:25.700 They have nothing to do with the Jews. 0.96

00:51:26.560 It's only when the Jews get attacked that they're attacked more.

00:51:30.240 I think in that spirit of ending on an impressionist.

00:51:32.320 Why is that so good?

00:51:32.700 It's just your impression.

00:51:33.500 I'm not public about it.

00:51:35.340 But it's only when Israel gets attacked that it gets attacked more.

00:51:38.620 Israel is the only country not allowed to win a war.

00:51:42.660 He'd be good to talk to.

00:51:43.660 I'd recommend it.

00:51:44.240 You've got to get him on and do that with him.

00:51:46.300 But listen, I personally don't like Bibi Netanyahu.

00:51:50.100 Fine.

00:51:50.560 He's foreign. 1.00

00:51:51.280 I don't really care.

00:51:52.400 I get that that upsets some people because they think it's like-

00:51:54.560 A lot of Israelis don't either.

00:51:55.520 Yeah.

00:51:55.740 They're protesting in the streets against him.

00:51:57.360 So I agree with them.

00:51:58.280 I think they've been up to no good.

00:51:59.780 And I think, unfortunately, the Israeli population, as well as Jewish people in America, are bearing

00:52:04.840 the brunt of bad decision-making by his party.

00:52:08.740 But I look at that as an abstract in the same way that I look at what Joe Biden is doing.

00:52:12.440 I think he's awful, too.

00:52:13.580 And I critique my own president. 0.90

00:52:15.440 So, yeah, I'm going to critique Israel. 0.99

00:52:17.840 I'm going to critique AIPAC.

00:52:18.900 I'm going to critique the ADL in the same way that I critique Big Pharma, the same way

00:52:22.940 that I critique the CDC, the FDA, and my own politicians.

00:52:26.500 It's just people should just stop taking it so personal.

00:52:29.260 When I start advocating for, like, Israel shouldn't be a state and that sort of a stuff, which 0.98

00:52:33.920 I would never, ever do, then we're in a whole different category.

00:52:37.220 But I think people should just, like, you know, give it some time.

00:52:40.000 So that's a good distinction to make, that you know that you can recognize that the people

00:52:44.020 saying Israel should be abolished, dismantled.

00:52:46.220 That's where the anti-Semitism comes in.

00:52:47.840 We're not just talking about criticisms of particular politicians in Israel or Israeli policy, which

00:52:52.460 Israel is known to do and has a whole culture of dissent and criticism.

00:52:57.660 They're a robust democracy, which they should be proud of.

00:53:00.140 And we should recognize as a friend of the U.S. in that sense, at least forget what the

00:53:07.140 policy should be in terms of giving people money.

00:53:08.780 I mean, there's a lot of friends you have that you don't just give them money in regular

00:53:11.800 life as individuals.

00:53:12.860 That's a separate conversation.

00:53:14.200 But to recognize that, I think, is super important.

00:53:16.700 And to recognize that those that hate Israel for nefarious reasons are there and are using

00:53:20.500 this guise of obsession with Israel and under the guise of anti-Semitism to say only the

00:53:25.220 Jewish state can exist.

00:53:26.700 I mean, Bibi Netanyahu will be voted out at some point.

00:53:29.500 That's not the same thing in much of the world that surrounds Israel.

00:53:32.380 These people have indefinite, indefinite terms of leadership.

00:53:36.140 So that's what Israel is up against.

00:53:37.420 So I just think it's always looked at as the one that has the power.

00:53:40.200 But Israel is the size of New Jersey, literally a little smaller than New Jersey. 0.55

00:53:43.660 There's only 15 million Jews around the world.

00:53:46.980 You know, there's billions and billions of other populations.

00:53:50.460 We're such a small percentage.

00:53:51.780 And in terms of who's the underdog looking at that situation, I think if you just zoom

00:53:55.200 out a little bit and see all this territory and all these regimes that want nothing more

00:53:59.980 than to just knock Israel off the map, it gives a little bit of perspective to it.

00:54:04.320 Yeah, I have no allegiance to Israel.

00:54:05.820 I don't know.

00:54:06.460 I am just an American and I would like more divorce in terms of our politics from Israel. 1.00

00:54:11.080 Don't wish them any harm.

00:54:12.620 Hope that they solve all the issues that are in the region.

00:54:14.460 But quite literally, I have no attachment to the place.

00:54:17.240 And I think it's weird that people are kind of trying to...

00:54:19.840 You would, of course, because you've been there.

00:54:21.880 You're Jewish. 0.75

00:54:22.300 You've got heritage there.

00:54:23.240 It's just weird when people are trying to make me feel that their ancestral or their

00:54:27.340 heritage is mine.

00:54:28.300 It's just not.

00:54:29.120 You know, if you want to go down with St. Thomas and then I'll be like, hey, listen,

00:54:33.420 look at this great island, these Caribbean accents.

00:54:35.560 There's a great jerk chicken.

00:54:37.180 Like, come on.

00:54:38.140 It's doper.

00:54:38.980 It's better.

00:54:39.880 If we want to go tip for tat, food's better.

00:54:42.340 But if St. Thomas got attacked and people were taken hostage and I went time and time 0.79

00:54:46.960 again criticizing the response that St. Thomas made and saying, hey, it's ridiculous.

00:54:51.120 You know, and I said, we shouldn't support them.

00:54:52.600 We shouldn't give them any money.

00:54:53.580 They should just do their own thing.

00:54:54.400 I would be understanding because I would say, listen, if St. Thomas was its own country,

00:54:58.420 I would be understanding because I would recognize that this is America and this is St. Thomas.

00:55:03.520 If it was its own country, obviously, we're just a territory of the United States.

00:55:06.320 It would be weird if you did it now because it is territory of the United States.

00:55:09.320 So actually, it would be...

00:55:09.900 But it might bother you if I kept crapping on it.

00:55:12.080 Well, if you were talking about, because I'm so consistent on sending no money overseas,

00:55:15.520 I just think that about every country.

00:55:17.280 And by the way, that's even, and this would be the hardest for me, the UK.

00:55:20.220 My kids are half British.

00:55:21.340 My husband is British.

00:55:22.080 That's probably the best comparison.

00:55:23.660 I would feel the most emotionally attached to a terrorist attack on UK soil.

00:55:28.020 It would be very difficult for me to...

00:55:29.840 But I would wear those biases.

00:55:31.480 I would say to people, my husband is British.

00:55:33.300 My kids are half British.

00:55:34.500 Our family lives there.

00:55:35.580 And that is the reason why you are correct.

00:55:37.340 Like I started our conversation with Dave.

00:55:39.260 I said, let me put my biases on the table, right?

00:55:42.720 But I would totally understand if people said, I don't want to send a single dollar to the UK.

00:55:46.640 I would just have to respect that.

00:55:47.700 But it's been more than about just foreign aid.

00:55:49.560 It's not just foreign aid.

00:55:50.540 If people started to say, like, criticizing the UK when it's the one that's been attacked or criticizing the UK's response to try to get UK citizens out of being in captivity and being kidnapped, it would make you suspect of the people who continually only see it on that one side.

00:56:06.080 Yeah, I guess if it was, like I said, the issue is very complicated.

00:56:10.220 We just went over this for an hour and a half with Dave.

00:56:12.680 It's a very complicated issue.

00:56:13.600 Some people say, historically, it's wrong.

00:56:15.540 People are like, let's just look at this as what happened on October 7th in response to it.

00:56:18.960 But I just say I'm American and I just am not that moved by what's happening in the Middle East.

00:56:24.020 And I'd like to get people back to focus on American issues.

00:56:27.680 And I mean that of no offense to any person that feels offended by it.

00:56:32.140 Fair enough.

00:56:32.800 Anyways, I think that we should, we've kind of gone way over here, but I want to keep the conversation going with you.

00:56:37.360 And I, again, want to just commend you because I just think you're a really sensible pro-Israel voice.

00:56:40.920 I think there are people that are radical and they're so radical pro-Israel that they might as well be pro-Palestine. 0.77

00:56:45.740 They actually might as well be pro-Hamas. 0.90

00:56:47.380 They're so crazy in terms of what they're saying. 0.81

00:56:49.000 It's not helpful.

00:56:49.940 And I think people like you and Dennis Prager are just always sensible, always open to a conversation, always willing to say it.

00:56:57.640 Like, you're like, I don't like that you're saying this, Candace.

00:56:59.260 And I'm like, well, here's why I'm saying it.

00:57:01.260 Let's normalize this, guys.

00:57:02.560 Let's just normalize having conversations, disagreeing, and moving on.

00:57:06.540 That is really what I hope you get away from this, irrespective.

00:57:09.260 I know in the comments some people are going to kill me.

00:57:11.620 Some people are absolutely going to kill Ami.

00:57:13.460 They're going to be all sorts of weird comments.

00:57:15.140 It is what it is.

00:57:15.840 But I hope you at least are listening to these conversations and growing from them and realizing speech is not that scary,

00:57:22.300 as long as we are not becoming hateful people who actually wish harm on other groups.

00:57:27.060 And those people should be called out.

00:57:30.260 Amen.

00:57:30.860 We agree on that.

00:57:31.840 Ami, thanks so much for all of your time.

00:57:34.180 We'll be in touch.

00:57:35.200 Thank you.

00:57:39.260 We'll be in touch.

Candace Owens - July 05, 2024

DEBATE： Is Everything Antisemitism ｜ Candace Ep 19

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