Classically Abby - Self-Love Culture Is TOXIC. Allie Beth Stuckey Is Here To Tell You WHY. ｜

00:00:00.000 The self can't be both the problem and the solution.

00:00:02.760 Like all of us deal with these very real feelings

00:00:05.340 of self-doubt and insecurity at times,

00:00:08.580 and maybe even self-loathing.

00:00:11.080 And the message of my book isn't that,

00:00:12.920 well, you should feel bad about yourself and that's it.

00:00:15.880 The message of my book is, look,

00:00:17.260 you're not going to find the answer

00:00:19.620 to those very real problems and feelings that you have

00:00:23.020 in the same place where you're finding your problems

00:00:26.000 and those bad feelings.

00:00:30.000 Hello, Classic crew, and welcome to today's episode of

00:00:36.540 Let's Be Classic, where I'm interviewing Ali Beth Stuckey.

00:00:40.620 Ali Beth Stuckey is a podcast host, commentator, speaker,

00:00:44.480 and author.

00:00:45.420 You might know her from her podcast, Relatable,

00:00:48.180 and she started off her career as the conservative millennial.

00:00:51.560 You guys are going to love our interview today.

00:00:53.960 Ali is a Christian woman, so so much of her work

00:00:56.860 is informed by her faith, which I love.

00:00:59.260 And of course, she is a conservative.

00:01:01.260 So I hope you guys will enjoy today's video.

00:01:03.640 But before we get into it, make sure

00:01:05.400 that you are subscribed to my channel

00:01:07.200 and hit that notification bell.

00:01:08.800 And if you're interested in getting access

00:01:10.400 to exclusive content not available anywhere else,

00:01:13.180 including four exclusive videos every single month,

00:01:16.680 make sure to subscribe to my Substack newsletter,

00:01:19.420 which will come right to your inbox.

00:01:21.340 Now let's get into today's video.

00:01:23.320 So thank you so much for joining me.

00:01:25.580 I'm so glad that you could come on my channel.

00:01:28.580 Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

00:01:30.960 So I have, you know, a million questions for you,

00:01:34.080 but we'll try to keep it somewhat contained.

00:01:36.500 And I know that a lot of my subscribers

00:01:38.520 and followers absolutely love what you do,

00:01:40.960 so I'm sure they're going to get a kick out

00:01:43.160 of what we're doing today.

00:01:44.400 But my first question for you is,

00:01:46.600 how did you become the Ali Beth Stuckey

00:01:49.640 that we all know and love?

00:01:51.580 And did you always know that this is what you wanted to do,

00:01:54.380 that you wanted to speak out on conservatism?

00:01:58.420 So I vaguely knew that I wanted to do this.

00:02:00.760 I've always loved the news.

00:02:02.100 I can't say that I was super involved in politics

00:02:04.960 when I was in high school or even college,

00:02:06.920 maybe towards the latter part of college,

00:02:09.500 but we didn't necessarily talk about politics,

00:02:12.900 sitting at the kitchen table or anything growing up.

00:02:15.540 I was raised in a conservative Christian home,

00:02:17.880 and so I was certainly instilled with conservative

00:02:21.720 Christian values, and that was my worldview.

00:02:24.480 Of course, my parents always voted Republican,

00:02:26.780 and so I never went through a stage of, you know,

00:02:29.920 being some liberal or going through a feminist phase

00:02:34.360 or anything like that.

00:02:36.140 And I knew that I wanted to do something in media,

00:02:40.200 but I didn't know exactly what that would look like.

00:02:43.400 I have always liked speaking in front of people.

00:02:46.200 I've always liked debate and things like that,

00:02:51.180 but I just didn't know how those things would come together.

00:02:53.180 I majored in communications in college,

00:02:55.620 and I went into PR after college,

00:02:58.120 and then about 2015,

00:03:01.120 when the presidential primary was kind of gearing up,

00:03:04.520 I kind of almost randomly just had this urge

00:03:09.400 or had this idea to tell fellow young people

00:03:12.960 that they needed to vote in the primary.

00:03:14.800 And so I was working full-time,

00:03:16.740 but I remember calling my mom.

00:03:18.200 I was driving to visit some friends in Atlanta.

00:03:21.740 I lived in Athens, Georgia at the time,

00:03:23.300 and I called her and I said, you know what?

00:03:24.380 I think that I should go around to sororities in Athens

00:03:28.680 and tell them why they should vote in the primary,

00:03:31.580 like why it's important to care

00:03:32.840 about the things that are going on.

00:03:34.080 This was really the first election,

00:03:35.540 not the first election I voted in,

00:03:37.160 but the first election for me

00:03:38.620 that I really felt like I knew what was going on

00:03:40.560 and I knew what was at stake.

00:03:43.420 And so I decided to reach out to sororities

00:03:48.300 and ask if I could come tell their chapters

00:03:51.700 why they should vote in the primary.

00:03:53.460 And I tried to make it nonpartisan,

00:03:55.240 but it was kind of obvious that I was conservative.

00:03:58.200 And then that just kind of evolved

00:04:01.140 into me having a platform doing the same thing,

00:04:03.980 but from an explicitly conservative perspective.

00:04:07.340 I started a blog, called it The Conservative Millennial.

00:04:10.620 I did videos and posts and different kinds of, you know,

00:04:14.720 cultural, political commentary and things like that.

00:04:17.760 Still working full-time.

00:04:19.420 Then in 2017, we moved and I joined The Blaze,

00:04:24.060 actually not as an on-camera talent.

00:04:26.060 I was actually doing like their social media

00:04:27.920 in the hopes that I would, you know,

00:04:30.400 be on-camera talent at some point.

00:04:32.500 And then it just kind of grew.

00:04:33.800 I kept on blogging, kept on doing videos,

00:04:35.840 kept on speaking different places,

00:04:38.040 Republican organizations,

00:04:39.440 telling them how to engage millennials.

00:04:41.400 Millennials, you know, they,

00:04:43.720 they were what obviously Gen Z is now.

00:04:45.940 Everyone was like, what's up with the millennials?

00:04:47.440 Millennials are so terrible.

00:04:48.980 There are no conservative millennials.

00:04:50.460 And so I tried to, you know, take it upon myself

00:04:52.920 as much as I can to, as much as I could,

00:04:55.940 to try to educate the older generations

00:04:57.940 about what millennials were thinking

00:04:59.240 and why we were voting the way we were and all of that.

00:05:02.140 And then, you know, started doing TV.

00:05:04.400 I remember when Fox News first called

00:05:06.180 and that was obviously a big deal.

00:05:08.080 And then I started Relatable at, let's see,

00:05:13.080 when was it, the beginning of 2018.

00:05:15.620 So it's been about three and a half years of doing that.

00:05:18.580 So it's just kind of been a natural progression.

00:05:20.880 And obviously I stopped doing PR

00:05:22.960 and all of that full time in 2017

00:05:25.120 and started this full time.

00:05:26.580 And I've just been very thankful

00:05:27.960 that it's kind of just grown organically

00:05:30.400 and I've kind of just taken opportunities

00:05:32.360 as they've come to me.

00:05:33.620 And I do feel like this is what I always wanted to do

00:05:37.000 growing up without realizing when I was growing up

00:05:40.240 that this is what I would do or even wanted to do, so.

00:05:43.740 I mean, clearly you've struck a nerve

00:05:45.740 in the best possible way.

00:05:47.100 People, you've been growing consistently since you started

00:05:50.140 and people love what you do.

00:05:51.980 And people, like you said, you started Relatable

00:05:54.880 and people feel that you are very relatable,

00:05:58.340 which is awesome.

00:06:00.340 But I recently read your book, which I loved.

00:06:03.320 I actually listened to the audio book,

00:06:05.420 You're Not Enough and That's Okay,

00:06:06.920 Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love.

00:06:09.720 And I really loved it.

00:06:11.600 I enjoyed every minute of it.

00:06:13.520 So you write about how the self-love culture

00:06:16.520 actually hurts more than it helps.

00:06:18.500 You shared your own experience, which I loved.

00:06:21.160 So can you tell us a little bit about how you knew

00:06:24.900 you wanted to write about this topic specifically?

00:06:28.360 Yes, so I am in the conservative, evangelical,

00:06:36.140 Christian world, which means that I have some crossover

00:06:40.640 with people who are Christians or who are vaguely Christian

00:06:45.440 or spiritual and kind of use Christian language,

00:06:47.480 but don't have the same political perspectives

00:06:50.380 or just kind of the same philosophical perspectives as I do,

00:06:54.380 which means that there is a lot of disagreement

00:06:58.560 and a lot of tension between professing progressive Christians

00:07:02.180 and conservative Christians,

00:07:03.480 not just when it comes to politics,

00:07:05.200 because this really wasn't a political book,

00:07:07.020 but specifically when it comes to theology.

00:07:09.500 And one of the differences that I noticed

00:07:11.940 was this replacement of Christ as the center

00:07:16.400 of our understanding of the Bible and of life with the self,

00:07:20.140 or really what I say in my book is exchanging the God of scripture

00:07:24.180 for the God of self and kind of adopting this mentality

00:07:29.220 that everything is about me, the Bible is about me,

00:07:31.880 life is about me, life is about fulfilling myself,

00:07:35.620 making myself happy, empowering myself,

00:07:38.560 feeling good all of the time and everything else,

00:07:41.600 whether it's objective morality,

00:07:43.600 whether it's objective truth can be sacrificed

00:07:45.760 on the altar of self-fulfillment, self-empowerment, et cetera.

00:07:50.360 And I saw how damaging this was to women,

00:07:52.440 not just to our theology,

00:07:54.340 which obviously is of primary importance to me,

00:07:58.740 but it was hurting their relationships.

00:08:00.580 It was hurting their understanding of themselves,

00:08:02.640 of other people, of work.

00:08:04.720 This idea that we cut things out of our lives

00:08:07.980 when they're uncomfortable or when society calls them toxic

00:08:11.380 because they disagree with us

00:08:13.260 or they don't suit us in that moment,

00:08:15.120 that will leave us feeling empty.

00:08:17.540 My whole, the whole premise of the book

00:08:19.360 is that the self can't be both the problem and the solution.

00:08:22.400 Like all of us deal with these very real feelings

00:08:24.980 of self-doubt and insecurity at times,

00:08:28.240 and maybe even self-loathing.

00:08:30.720 And the message of my book isn't that,

00:08:32.580 well, you should feel bad about yourself and that's it.

00:08:35.580 The message of my book is, look,

00:08:36.920 you're not going to find the answer

00:08:39.260 to those very real problems and feelings that you have

00:08:42.660 in the same place where you're finding your problems

00:08:45.620 and those bad feelings.

00:08:46.760 So my encouragement is for people to look outside

00:08:50.160 of themselves to find out the pressing questions

00:08:52.900 that we're all struggling with,

00:08:53.900 namely who we are, where we belong, why we're here,

00:08:58.100 who made us, to look to the God who created us.

00:09:01.080 And then also to look for ways to not focus on ourselves,

00:09:06.080 but to forget about ourselves in service,

00:09:09.080 in sacrifice, in hard work that isn't just necessarily

00:09:13.360 serving us in our fame and our desires,

00:09:16.720 but for the sake of sacrifice, for the sake of hard work,

00:09:19.220 for the sake of doing good for other people,

00:09:21.700 rather than constantly focusing on how we feel,

00:09:26.340 what we think about ourselves,

00:09:29.360 our self-identification and fulfillment.

00:09:32.680 Ultimately, I just think that puts you on a hamster wheel

00:09:35.140 and you're going to be exhausted trying to carry a burden

00:09:38.080 that was never yours in the first place,

00:09:40.020 which is one of trying to be your own God.

00:09:44.140 Yeah, no, I think, and it's so often,

00:09:46.880 you see this is, I think, especially pervasive in young women,

00:09:50.960 which is why I think that your book was so kind of successful

00:09:54.360 among women of this age group,

00:09:57.100 is that we feel that we have to find meaning

00:10:01.900 and fulfillment and purpose in kind of these paths

00:10:06.640 that are not really going to lead to those things, right?

00:10:09.080 So how to make yourself look the best for an Instagram photo,

00:10:12.740 and if you don't feel that you have gotten enough likes that day,

00:10:16.280 you don't have worth,

00:10:18.380 instead of realizing that your worth is God-given.

00:10:21.160 Yeah, yes, exactly.

00:10:23.020 And it's so ironic what you've just described,

00:10:26.020 because the very people that I see,

00:10:29.160 finding their worth and how many likes they get on Instagram

00:10:32.900 or different superficial things like that,

00:10:35.400 are the same ones saying that all they care about is self-love,

00:10:39.300 all they care about is self-care.

00:10:41.000 Oh, we find my, I find my worth inside myself,

00:10:43.740 I'm self-confident,

00:10:44.940 when really their lives and their platform

00:10:49.220 kind of contradict that.

00:10:50.520 And we talk about this a little bit in the book,

00:10:52.820 we talk about something called the paradox of perfection,

00:10:56.860 which is these lifestyle gurus and authors

00:11:00.600 and podcasters, influencers,

00:11:02.700 simultaneously telling you you're perfect the way that you are.

00:11:06.540 You don't need to change anything about you.

00:11:08.740 Anything that someone says is bad

00:11:10.040 is actually just a quirk that they need to love.

00:11:12.180 And if other people can accept you

00:11:14.580 and all of your, you know, all of your character flaws,

00:11:17.940 then it has to do with them, not you.

00:11:20.120 Those people are simultaneously telling you

00:11:22.420 all of those things that you're absolutely perfect,

00:11:24.680 you don't need to change yourself while also trying

00:11:27.080 to sell you their book or their program

00:11:29.820 that is going to change you,

00:11:31.360 that is supposed to change how you think

00:11:33.180 or how you behave.

00:11:34.720 And so it's almost this way to reel people in

00:11:38.700 and then make money off of people's insecurities

00:11:41.440 that let me draw you in by telling you

00:11:43.960 that you're perfect, you stranger

00:11:45.260 that I've never seen in my life

00:11:46.740 and that you're smart and beautiful and capable

00:11:48.240 and amazing mom,

00:11:49.100 even though we don't know any of those things,

00:11:51.700 you're perfect the way you are.

00:11:52.700 But here's my book, here's my 10-step program,

00:11:55.200 here's my podcast.

00:11:56.100 It's actually going to change everything about you

00:11:58.140 so that you can finally be really perfect.

00:12:00.700 It's all a scam.

00:12:01.740 And I think that's why when so many women,

00:12:04.340 they, you know, they read particular books

00:12:06.880 from famous gurus or listen to their podcasts,

00:12:09.220 they feel good for a little bit.

00:12:10.520 It gives you a high to wake up in the morning

00:12:13.060 and to look in the mirror and be like,

00:12:14.280 wow, I am perfect.

00:12:15.460 I am Beyonce and I can do everything,

00:12:17.500 girl power, girl boss, whatever it is.

00:12:19.860 Not only could that damage your relationships,

00:12:22.600 but also it's so fleeting.

00:12:24.900 Like if our confidence is dependent upon

00:12:27.740 what we think about ourselves,

00:12:29.900 then that's going to change based on our mood,

00:12:32.400 based on what happened to us that day,

00:12:33.900 based on what someone said to us,

00:12:35.780 based on particular circumstances,

00:12:37.480 there's a million different factors

00:12:39.020 that could change how you feel about you.

00:12:40.980 So if your confidence is dependent upon

00:12:42.820 how you feel about you,

00:12:44.020 you're going to be up and down.

00:12:45.920 And I think that's why we see so many women chasing after,

00:12:49.220 like the next self-help book

00:12:51.520 or the next, you know, motivational speaker,

00:12:55.060 like the next program that is finally going

00:12:57.700 to give them lasting joy and it never does.

00:13:00.800 And either they realize that,

00:13:02.300 like they realize, okay, this is a dead end.

00:13:04.400 I've got to find something more substantial

00:13:07.000 or they just keep on, on this exhausting road.

00:13:10.480 And that's ultimately, you know,

00:13:11.980 that's why I wrote the book

00:13:13.140 because I don't want to see women exhausted by something

00:13:15.880 that you don't need to be exhausted by.

00:13:18.380 Yeah, it's the project of self-love

00:13:21.020 as opposed to self-improvement.

00:13:24.080 Plus on top of the self-improvement, right,

00:13:26.580 is that, you know, God loves you.

00:13:28.780 I know that you talk about that a lot.

00:13:30.960 We don't often talk that way so much in Judaism,

00:13:33.360 but it is something that we believe

00:13:35.220 is that God does love you.

00:13:36.840 And that again, is what gives you worth.

00:13:39.860 So self-love isn't an eternal project.

00:13:42.760 The project needs to be growing and bettering yourself.

00:13:46.000 And I mean, I think that is what gives people purpose

00:13:48.400 over the course of a lifetime

00:13:50.140 is knowing that you are becoming better.

00:13:53.280 Right, and we talk about exactly what you just mentioned,

00:13:58.180 that not only does your worth come from being made

00:14:03.220 in the image of God,

00:14:05.120 it comes from an identity that you can't even control.

00:14:08.960 It's inherent in you.

00:14:11.020 As a human being, you are made in God's image

00:14:13.160 and therefore your value and your worth

00:14:15.100 is more than any plant, any animal,

00:14:17.440 any other creature on earth.

00:14:19.260 And that in itself is amazing.

00:14:21.100 Of course, I'm a Christian.

00:14:22.240 And so I believe that God showed his love for us

00:14:26.040 in sending his son to die for our sins

00:14:27.780 so we could be reconciled with him and live with him forever.

00:14:31.280 Like that is the gospel.

00:14:32.740 That's what we believe sacrificial love is.

00:14:35.340 And that's where we look.

00:14:36.540 We look to the cross to tell us what our worth is,

00:14:39.440 what our value is.

00:14:40.620 Not all of these contradictory thoughts inside of ourselves

00:14:43.620 and how we feel that day

00:14:45.020 or whether or not we read the right motivational mantra

00:14:48.020 on Instagram that morning.

00:14:50.300 And you talk about the difference

00:14:52.460 between self-love and self-improvement.

00:14:55.900 Of course, I do believe that we shouldn't be down.

00:15:00.300 Like we shouldn't hate ourselves.

00:15:01.600 We shouldn't be down on ourselves.

00:15:02.840 We shouldn't be, you know, constantly beating ourselves up.

00:15:06.400 There are people who struggle with self-loathing, of course.

00:15:09.880 But I argue that self-loathing and self-love

00:15:13.780 or self-obsession are actually two sides

00:15:17.120 of the same self-obsessed coin.

00:15:19.320 So you can be over here and think that you are awesome

00:15:22.380 and then you can swing to the pendulum in the next moment

00:15:24.520 and think that you are the worst person ever.

00:15:26.720 Really, what I think that we have to step away from is, again,

00:15:30.100 that constant focus of how we feel about ourselves

00:15:32.600 and what we think about ourselves

00:15:34.260 and to put our eyes on the God whose feelings about us

00:15:38.800 and whose view of us as his children do not change.

00:15:42.940 And as children, I'm talking about, I'm not, well,

00:15:46.600 I won't even get into them.

00:15:47.840 I won't even get into all the theological complexities,

00:15:50.340 that statement.

00:15:51.380 But as Christians in Christ, we believe that he has adopted us.

00:15:55.720 And because of that, how he feels about us

00:15:59.120 and what he sees us as does not change

00:16:01.860 based on how we feel about ourselves.

00:16:03.620 That is liberating.

00:16:05.460 Like that is freedom that I don't have to define myself.

00:16:09.600 I don't have to identify myself.

00:16:11.500 I don't have to measure my worth based on how I feel.

00:16:14.740 That burden is off my shoulders.

00:16:16.880 And to me, that's really, really good news.

00:16:19.000 Yeah, I love that.

00:16:21.840 So for all of the, you know, young women who follow me,

00:16:24.700 who are, who are religious, what advice do you have

00:16:28.880 for them navigating this woke world?

00:16:31.680 Yes.

00:16:32.680 So it's going to be increasingly difficult, I think.

00:16:37.320 And I'm not someone who's trying to fear monger.

00:16:39.420 I understand people, you know, people who aren't religious,

00:16:42.260 they roll their eyes at, you know, Christians, especially,

00:16:46.420 who talk about persecution in the United States.

00:16:48.520 And I am very aware that any persecution

00:16:51.360 that someone experiences, at least as a Christian

00:16:54.860 in the United States, is not the same as what a Christian

00:16:57.220 in China or in the Middle East is experiencing torture,

00:17:00.400 martyrdom, having to hide.

00:17:02.040 They can't worship freely.

00:17:03.500 But it is at least becoming more and more unpopular

00:17:08.100 to be a Christian, to say things that we know

00:17:10.100 are biblically true about whether it's abortion

00:17:12.640 or sexuality or gender, all of these hot topics.

00:17:16.140 And this is going to sound like bad news,

00:17:19.740 but it's actually freeing when you accept it,

00:17:23.240 that you will be canceled for these things.

00:17:25.620 You will be canceled for living out

00:17:28.120 and speaking biblical truth.

00:17:29.560 Like the cancel mob will come for you in one way or another.

00:17:33.760 And once you just accept that,

00:17:36.320 then you can kind of stop this whole self-censoring madness

00:17:39.860 and trying to save off the mob as long as possible.

00:17:42.760 They're coming, like unless you are ready

00:17:45.400 to completely capitulate, unless you are ready

00:17:48.260 to completely give up every value that you have

00:17:51.600 as a Christian, unless you are ready

00:17:53.780 to completely bow down at the altar of progressivism,

00:17:58.200 the cancel mob is going to come for you.

00:18:00.780 And so your options are to completely surrender

00:18:03.780 or to double down.

00:18:05.020 And I recommend the latter.

00:18:06.680 I recommend that you double down on your values,

00:18:09.280 that you are more bold than ever,

00:18:10.840 that you're braver than ever,

00:18:12.520 that you unabashedly shine light

00:18:16.160 in the sphere of influences in which God has placed you.

00:18:19.820 You are not placed here talking about time

00:18:23.100 or talking about place arbitrarily or accidentally.

00:18:26.240 You are placed where and when you have been with purpose.

00:18:30.200 And just like every progressive that you know

00:18:33.000 is totally unwilling and unashamed to push their values,

00:18:38.340 whether it's in school, whether it's in your church,

00:18:41.200 whether it's at work, whatever it is,

00:18:44.820 you need to be just as unashamed to push your values

00:18:48.980 in a kind and respectful way.

00:18:50.620 Of course, I always say to try to raise a respectful ruckus

00:18:53.580 when you see that things are wrong

00:18:55.520 or when things are brushing up against what you know

00:18:57.660 to be good and right and true.

00:18:58.820 So that's my encouragement.

00:19:01.220 Know that cancellation is coming.

00:19:04.100 And we also know that Christ talks about

00:19:06.200 blessed are the persecuted.

00:19:07.700 And I like to say blessed are those

00:19:09.140 who are canceled for Christ.

00:19:10.860 I mean, you're gonna be canceled.

00:19:12.800 You're gonna be canceled.

00:19:14.200 And it's okay if you're canceled by the world.

00:19:17.880 And so embrace that, double down.

00:19:19.980 I heard someone say that courage begets courage.

00:19:22.480 And I think about that all the time,

00:19:24.420 seeing one person stand up for something that you believe in,

00:19:28.040 something that is again, good and right and true,

00:19:30.840 it allows other people to have that same courage.

00:19:32.940 So be that person, be that person that is courageous enough

00:19:37.420 to stand up and to allow that courage

00:19:41.320 to be a contagion for other people.

00:19:44.060 Yeah, I totally agree with that.

00:19:46.320 I actually just recently spoke about this on my channel

00:19:49.260 that if you're the one who kind of cancels yourself

00:19:52.940 in a sense, if you're the one who says,

00:19:54.860 this is what I believe, this is what I stand up for that,

00:19:59.340 then no one can actually come out of the woodwork

00:20:01.940 and surprise you.

00:20:03.040 It's kind of like, I already said it.

00:20:05.240 You can't make me feel bad for something

00:20:07.180 that I openly chose to say.

00:20:09.380 So-

00:20:10.380 It's almost harder, like you and I are obviously,

00:20:12.780 we have platforms based on our beliefs.

00:20:15.120 And so like, I'm not gonna get fired

00:20:17.080 for being a conservative.

00:20:18.480 That was literally why I was hired.

00:20:20.560 It's almost safer to be out in the open, safer.

00:20:25.060 I mean, in the sense that we're not gonna,

00:20:26.900 I'm not gonna lose my employment

00:20:29.000 because I'm a conservative Christian.

00:20:31.000 And it's a lot harder, like people,

00:20:32.900 I don't know if people message you this,

00:20:34.800 but people message me all the time.

00:20:36.000 Like, you know, you're so brave for saying all these things.

00:20:38.780 And I always wanna say, no, you're so brave.

00:20:40.980 You're so brave for posting the things that you do.

00:20:43.560 You're so brave for sharing and talking

00:20:46.220 about the things that you do,

00:20:47.420 knowing that there is a real risk.

00:20:49.760 There's a real risk because you are in, you know,

00:20:52.860 a progressive circle or you're in a progressive workplace.

00:20:55.400 And the fact that you stood up to, you know,

00:20:58.160 your hiring manager or whatever it is

00:21:00.340 about their new standards that you might not agree with,

00:21:04.440 that shows way more courage, I think,

00:21:07.840 than it takes for me to do what I do.

00:21:10.140 So I just want to also sympathize with people out there

00:21:12.720 who say, you know, who are thinking,

00:21:15.320 well, you don't know what it's like

00:21:16.280 because I'm an X, Y, Z situation.

00:21:17.960 You're right, I don't.

00:21:19.620 And I really respect the courage

00:21:21.380 that people have in their everyday lives,

00:21:23.520 knowing that there's real risk to standing up

00:21:26.360 and speaking up for what you believe in.

00:21:28.600 Yeah, no, I totally agree.

00:21:30.100 I have kind of a little bit of experience

00:21:33.100 because when I decided to change my channel

00:21:35.760 in the sense of coming out,

00:21:37.640 even though people hate when I say that,

00:21:38.740 as conservative, I had to say,

00:21:43.580 okay, well, I'm an opera singer.

00:21:45.120 I'm probably not gonna get hired for that anymore.

00:21:47.980 But I also was moving into

00:21:49.620 a new career trajectory, theoretically.

00:21:52.320 So I was taking a step in a different direction.

00:21:56.560 Yeah, but that was definitely a risk.

00:21:58.420 I mean, and that did take,

00:22:00.560 that did take some courage to say that, okay,

00:22:04.340 you know, I'm going to risk

00:22:05.740 maybe giving up this thing for this other thing.

00:22:08.540 And I'm sure that was,

00:22:09.680 I'm sure that was difficult to do.

00:22:11.580 Yeah, so that's why I totally understand

00:22:13.940 the struggle that people have,

00:22:15.080 especially if, you know,

00:22:16.580 you really do have that as an income,

00:22:19.040 you know, you need that to support your family.

00:22:21.120 That is, that does take courage.

00:22:22.660 And I totally respect any of our followers who do that.

00:22:25.660 And I think that at the end of the day,

00:22:27.720 doing that is going to,

00:22:30.400 it just shows bravery and it will,

00:22:32.540 like you said, courage begets courage.

00:22:34.160 And I totally agree.

00:22:35.880 So moving on to motherhood,

00:22:39.080 you're a mom, which is lovely.

00:22:41.900 Can you tell us a little bit about motherhood

00:22:44.480 and your experience being a mom?

00:22:46.080 Because I think so often,

00:22:47.920 young women are sold this lie

00:22:49.520 that motherhood is a burden and it's terrible

00:22:52.620 and it destroys your dreams,

00:22:54.160 as many women will say in Hollywood

00:22:56.060 when they're talking about their choice

00:22:57.660 to have an abortion, for example.

00:23:00.060 So I love hearing the positive things

00:23:03.040 about motherhood from the women I have on my channel.

00:23:05.280 So can you tell us a little bit

00:23:06.280 about your experience as a mom?

00:23:08.700 Yes, in my book, we call it toxic mommy culture.

00:23:12.040 And that is the online culture

00:23:14.220 that is constantly talking about needing alcohol

00:23:18.220 in order to get through the day

00:23:20.120 or that their kids are brats

00:23:22.120 or that they don't like their kids,

00:23:23.920 their kids are so badly behaved.

00:23:26.160 And I am not ragging on jokes.

00:23:28.820 Like I understand that sometimes these people

00:23:32.360 are trying to be lighthearted

00:23:34.160 and maybe they're trying to commiserate,

00:23:36.060 but I actually think like cumulatively,

00:23:38.640 those kinds of jokes,

00:23:41.380 they form this culture of resentment towards kids.

00:23:46.080 And they foster this idea

00:23:48.420 that your kids steal your identity,

00:23:50.480 your kids steal your younger years,

00:23:52.580 they ruin your body.

00:23:54.020 And look, you sacrifice so much for these kids.

00:23:56.560 How come they're not more grateful?

00:23:58.300 How come they act this way?

00:24:00.060 And a part of you dies when you have a child

00:24:03.860 and that just could not be more true.

00:24:06.740 Not to be too like new age sounding,

00:24:10.180 but when you have a child,

00:24:11.480 it almost feels like a rebirth for yourself

00:24:16.160 or like a new part of you is actually born.

00:24:18.760 It's not that a part of you dies.

00:24:20.120 It feels like a new part of you is born,

00:24:22.420 this chamber of your heart,

00:24:24.200 of this deep, almost painful, unconditional love

00:24:28.660 that you didn't even know was there,

00:24:30.140 just opened like the floodgates.

00:24:32.640 And you realize that you would,

00:24:35.640 this person that you just met for the first time,

00:24:38.000 you would do anything, anything

00:24:40.740 if it meant making that little person happy.

00:24:42.900 All of the hopes and the fears that you had for yourself

00:24:46.100 are immediately and all at once transferred

00:24:48.840 on to that person.

00:24:50.780 Every hope that you had for your own happiness,

00:24:53.380 every hope that you had for your own success,

00:24:55.020 every fear that you had that things wouldn't work out

00:24:57.460 how you wanted them for yourself.

00:24:59.820 Now, all of your hopes and your fears

00:25:01.660 are wrapped up into this person's success

00:25:04.820 and happiness and future and wellbeing.

00:25:07.520 And that's an amazing feeling,

00:25:09.220 not just because of what you feel for them

00:25:11.060 and then what they feel for you.

00:25:12.760 And as they grow, you see how much they love you

00:25:15.060 and need you and that's an amazing feeling,

00:25:17.600 but also because it gives us a picture

00:25:20.800 of how much God loves us.

00:25:22.760 And I think the way that it opens our eyes to,

00:25:27.300 oh, okay, God loves me that way.

00:25:29.840 It really is that unconditional.

00:25:31.680 He really would do anything for me.

00:25:33.640 He really would chase after me if I turned away.

00:25:35.820 I think about all the things that I would do for my child

00:25:39.500 and that there's nothing that they could ever do,

00:25:41.500 ever do or say that would make me stop loving them.

00:25:44.720 And you realize that that, and as Christians,

00:25:47.640 we believe it's God through Christ loves us that much.

00:25:51.600 Wow, that's amazing.

00:25:52.840 That's amazing.

00:25:54.480 And so any kind of like talk about motherhood,

00:25:58.880 like a part of you dying or a part of you going away,

00:26:01.820 I just, I can't relate, I can't relate.

00:26:04.080 Now that doesn't mean that it's not hard.

00:26:06.500 That doesn't mean that there aren't sacrifices

00:26:08.260 and that you're not tired

00:26:09.600 and that you don't give up things

00:26:11.100 that maybe you wanted to do.

00:26:12.460 There are plenty of things that I used to do

00:26:14.200 before my kids were born that I just can't do now.

00:26:16.840 I don't have time now.

00:26:18.540 But, and so sure, you could call that a sacrifice

00:26:21.240 and that's fine.

00:26:22.080 There are days and nights when it's really hard.

00:26:24.640 Every mother can relate to that.

00:26:27.040 But I also remember what precious gifts they are

00:26:31.220 and what a privilege it is to be able to steward them

00:26:36.280 and to steward their lives.

00:26:38.080 There are a lot of women.

00:26:40.120 And this is also something that bothers me so much

00:26:42.120 about toxic mommy culture.

00:26:43.760 There's so many women and men who have been trying

00:26:47.100 to have children for a very long time,

00:26:49.720 have not been able to do that.

00:26:51.500 They would give anything to be waking up five times a night.

00:26:54.660 They would give anything to be putting a bandaid on a scrape

00:26:59.560 or to be asked why a thousand times in one afternoon.

00:27:03.100 They would give anything for that.

00:27:04.260 And then when toxic mommy culture on Instagram

00:27:07.440 makes it seem like this is just so,

00:27:10.040 it's just so trivial, it's just so annoying,

00:27:12.040 and it's just so much of a burden,

00:27:14.280 my heart breaks for those people who see that

00:27:16.640 and would give anything to feel that,

00:27:19.380 would give anything to make those sacrifices.

00:27:22.820 And so being a mom is amazing.

00:27:25.420 Don't buy the lie that you have to have all

00:27:29.820 of your ducks in a row before you have kids.

00:27:32.160 Like I understand that mentality.

00:27:33.600 I had that mentality that I wanna travel to this place.

00:27:36.100 I wanna do this.

00:27:37.200 I wanna check these things off on my list of career goals

00:27:42.040 before I have a kid.

00:27:43.340 And while it's fine to have goals

00:27:45.040 and maybe you need to save up money

00:27:46.820 or you need to graduate.

00:27:47.980 I know, I understand there are different things in life,

00:27:50.080 but don't buy into the lie that you have to wait

00:27:52.540 and wait and wait and do all the things

00:27:54.560 that you've ever wanted to do before you have a kid.

00:27:57.080 That mentality, I don't think it's healthy.

00:27:59.220 It's also, from my perspective,

00:28:01.960 not, it's not, it's not biblical.

00:28:04.020 It's not biblical.

00:28:04.860 We don't see that kind of precedent in the Bible.

00:28:06.960 Every time we see God talking about childbirth

00:28:11.360 or talking about raising children,

00:28:13.660 it's always shown as a blessing.

00:28:16.360 It's always shown as a very good thing,

00:28:19.040 as a gracious blessing.

00:28:21.080 And I think that we need to have that mentality

00:28:24.100 towards children.

00:28:25.000 And then maybe the birth rate wouldn't be declining

00:28:27.840 so rapidly if we were a little bit more positive

00:28:30.580 about what it means to be a mom and dad.

00:28:32.840 Yeah, I totally agree with everything you just said

00:28:35.480 from top to bottom.

00:28:37.400 I don't even know that I have much to add.

00:28:39.440 I mean, I'm not a mom yet.

00:28:40.740 I would love to be a mom, my husband and I.

00:28:43.600 People know we had a loss earlier this year.

00:28:48.200 But we, you know, it's part of the reason why I say,

00:28:53.280 don't wait until your ducks are all in a row

00:28:55.280 because you think you have control and you don't.

00:28:58.140 And, you know, there was a small element of that for us

00:29:00.860 where I wanted us to be settled just a little bit more

00:29:03.440 before we started trying.

00:29:04.780 Thank God, you know, when we tried, it was easy.

00:29:07.780 But then we did have a miscarriage

00:29:09.480 and now we're, you know, paused a little bit.

00:29:12.220 So it's not like you can immediately say,

00:29:14.280 okay, you know, we're ready to start trying

00:29:16.400 and we're going to get pregnant right away

00:29:17.560 because you don't know.

00:29:19.040 And I think that that's another, a big problem

00:29:21.620 that's, you know, sold to women is like,

00:29:24.160 things are going to happen on your schedule.

00:29:25.860 Nothing happens on your schedule.

00:29:27.400 God is the one who plans everything.

00:29:30.040 Yeah, exactly.

00:29:31.180 And that, yeah, that's, that can be really hard.

00:29:33.200 And it's helpful to have that faith in God's sovereignty

00:29:36.740 because, yeah, I think that we all just kind of assume,

00:29:40.300 no one ever thinks that they're going to go through

00:29:42.020 either infertility, no one ever thinks

00:29:43.560 that they're going to have a miscarriage

00:29:44.800 or that their pregnancy is going to be hard

00:29:46.760 or that birth is going to be really hard.

00:29:49.520 I mean, I've talked about on my podcast that,

00:29:51.780 you know, my first birth and even my second birth,

00:29:55.140 they didn't go the way I planned.

00:29:56.480 They didn't, I mean, thankfully, thank the Lord,

00:29:58.360 I have two healthy babies and I'm so happy about that.

00:30:02.140 But you can prepare and do everything

00:30:04.060 and do all of the research, whether it's conception,

00:30:06.720 whether it's pregnancy or whether it's birth.

00:30:09.060 And there's so many things beyond, beyond our control.

00:30:13.220 That's absolutely true.

00:30:15.040 Yes.

00:30:15.320 And I think that, you know,

00:30:17.280 remembering that things are in God's hands

00:30:19.480 can actually put you a little bit more at ease

00:30:22.580 about having, about starting to try

00:30:24.760 and having babies and all of that.

00:30:26.560 But when you were, you know, ready to be a mom

00:30:30.720 and did you read any books during pregnancy

00:30:33.700 or now having been a mom, like reading books

00:30:37.220 about parenting, not just pregnancy,

00:30:39.580 that you would recommend?

00:30:41.500 Okay, I know that I should have a list

00:30:44.600 of parenting books and pregnancy books

00:30:47.940 that I have read, but I honestly haven't.

00:30:51.300 And that's not because I don't recommend them.

00:30:54.100 And it's just that I have it.

00:30:57.200 I, I, the first couple of years, I feel like,

00:30:59.920 and this is, should be comforting to people

00:31:01.440 who don't yet have kids.

00:31:02.860 And maybe you have the mentality of like,

00:31:04.960 oh my gosh, I have no idea what I'm doing.

00:31:06.960 You will be amazed at how much of it is intuitive.

00:31:10.100 But I'm starting to get into those years of,

00:31:13.600 you know, my oldest is two of thinking,

00:31:15.640 okay, well, I haven't even had to think about,

00:31:18.200 you know, discipline,

00:31:19.220 or I haven't even had to think about really like,

00:31:21.760 okay, how do I say no?

00:31:23.400 How do I incentivize good behavior?

00:31:26.260 How do I try to, you know,

00:31:28.940 teach her how to kindly and politely share

00:31:31.420 and interact with other kids?

00:31:32.480 Because when they're babies,

00:31:33.500 it's just kind of natural.

00:31:35.660 Like, you know what to do

00:31:37.160 and how to help them and all of that.

00:31:39.080 As they get older and they start to be more willful,

00:31:41.920 you kind of have to learn tactics.

00:31:45.000 And I think that this is where I am starting to have to get

00:31:48.640 a lot of wisdom from other people

00:31:50.140 who have gone before me.

00:31:51.540 Sometimes I listen to podcasts,

00:31:52.700 but I don't necessarily have a whole lot of parenting books

00:31:56.060 specifically to recommend.

00:31:57.560 I did do the whole classic,

00:31:58.880 like what to expect when you're expecting,

00:32:01.300 which I know a lot of people rag on that book,

00:32:03.260 but it was good.

00:32:04.800 I mean, I think it's actually good to understand.

00:32:07.720 I realized before I got pregnant,

00:32:09.160 I didn't know a lot about pregnancy

00:32:11.880 and about gestation and about birth.

00:32:14.360 I just had no idea.

00:32:16.140 And I wish I would have researched more

00:32:18.000 during my first pregnancy.

00:32:19.360 That is some advice that I will give to people

00:32:21.300 that you should do a lot of research.

00:32:23.280 You should do a lot of research about pregnancy,

00:32:25.400 what you should be doing and eating

00:32:27.120 and how you should exercise during pregnancy,

00:32:29.000 not to put too much pressure on you,

00:32:30.500 not to put too much pressure,

00:32:31.980 but to just kind of have some knowledge,

00:32:34.340 then you should research, you know, birth,

00:32:37.000 where you want to birth.

00:32:38.040 You shouldn't necessarily just automatically assume

00:32:40.740 that you want to give birth in a hospital.

00:32:42.120 You might not want to give birth in a hospital,

00:32:43.960 if you want to get induced,

00:32:45.480 if you want to have a C-section,

00:32:46.540 all that stuff.

00:32:47.280 I had no idea that I needed to know anything about

00:32:50.340 before I gave birth.

00:32:51.740 And I wish that I had in my first pregnancy.

00:32:55.100 But again, not to overwhelm people

00:32:56.880 because birth is natural.

00:32:58.220 It's not a medical procedure,

00:32:59.820 but it is good to know all of your options

00:33:03.460 and that you're in authority when it comes to birth

00:33:08.840 and labor and all of that stuff

00:33:10.060 because I have seen a lot of women,

00:33:12.200 unfortunately, kind of taken advantage of

00:33:15.240 in those kinds of situations.

00:33:16.420 And I guess it's because I just gave birth

00:33:18.660 that I am very passionate about this right now.

00:33:22.360 But yeah, that's one recommendation that I would give

00:33:24.940 just to make sure that you are educated.

00:33:26.940 When I start to educate myself a little bit more

00:33:29.320 on how to parent toddlers and older kids,

00:33:34.340 I'll come back on and I'll give some book recommendations.

00:33:37.960 Well, I actually think it's nice

00:33:39.200 that you didn't have a ton of recommendations

00:33:40.960 for the beginning

00:33:41.600 because I think there is this fear

00:33:44.020 going into motherhood of like,

00:33:45.820 oh, I need to read every single thing

00:33:47.920 so I'm prepared.

00:33:49.060 And knowing that there's just a natural instinct

00:33:51.400 that takes over is comforting.

00:33:53.220 It's nice to know.

00:33:54.000 Yes, there definitely is.

00:33:57.140 And you will surprise yourself.

00:33:58.840 And I remember a friend gave me a piece of advice,

00:34:01.080 which I think is true,

00:34:02.380 that if you don't know how to do something

00:34:04.680 or you don't know what's going on,

00:34:08.300 how do I deal with this thing

00:34:09.280 that my newborn is doing or whatever,

00:34:11.220 give yourself 24 hours and you will figure it out.

00:34:14.900 Obviously, save some kind of emergency,

00:34:18.200 obviously call your pediatrician.

00:34:19.840 But I'm just talking about like,

00:34:21.760 oh my gosh, my child won't go down for a nap

00:34:24.260 or my child keeps waking up six times in an hour.

00:34:27.800 Give yourself 24 hours and let people help you.

00:34:32.280 Get advice from other people.

00:34:34.240 That is a huge tip that I would give.

00:34:35.960 Give advice from well-meaning people

00:34:39.040 that you trust and that you love.

00:34:41.260 And you will figure it out.

00:34:42.920 You will figure it out.

00:34:43.940 And then your second child,

00:34:45.220 you have so much confidence

00:34:46.420 because you're like,

00:34:47.260 okay, I know that I can take care of a child

00:34:52.520 and that they're going to be fine.

00:34:54.140 You just feel a lot more confident

00:34:55.520 and a lot less stressed out.

00:34:57.100 So just take a deep breath.

00:34:59.080 It will be fine.

00:34:59.840 God has totally equipped you to be a mom.

00:35:02.080 He totally, 100% has.

00:35:04.240 I love that.

00:35:05.680 So now I wanted to talk a little bit

00:35:08.260 about beauty and fashion.

00:35:10.700 So I'm actually curious.

00:35:13.400 I didn't actually think about asking you this,

00:35:16.420 you know, in advance,

00:35:17.300 but I'm curious about your thoughts on modesty.

00:35:20.040 Do you have any thoughts about,

00:35:22.200 you know, women dressing modestly in the modern age?

00:35:25.860 This is a very, this is such a hot topic.

00:35:28.360 And I know that you talk about this a lot

00:35:30.040 and I really appreciate that

00:35:31.680 because I think most people

00:35:32.920 that are having this conversation

00:35:34.340 are within like evangelical Christianity.

00:35:36.980 I feel like those are the only people

00:35:38.660 that I ever know talking about this.

00:35:40.900 And this is like a whole subculture

00:35:44.000 that you might not be totally familiar with,

00:35:45.880 but there's also like this

00:35:46.940 ex-evangelical movement

00:35:49.320 that they grew up in what they call purity culture

00:35:52.460 that they feel like was very sex negative

00:35:54.560 and basically put the onus on women

00:35:57.060 to try to, you know,

00:35:59.400 stave off temptation for men

00:36:02.000 and all of that stuff,

00:36:03.040 which I agree can actually be toxic.

00:36:04.700 And I talk about on my podcast,

00:36:06.420 there were certainly toxic things

00:36:08.020 that I learned and read about sex

00:36:10.260 and about the female body

00:36:12.140 and about modesty

00:36:13.100 and things like that growing up.

00:36:14.860 But I also don't think it's right

00:36:16.460 to swing the pendulum in the other direction

00:36:18.480 and to say, well, you know,

00:36:20.180 as promiscuous as you want to be,

00:36:23.360 however you want to dress

00:36:24.920 is totally, totally acceptable,

00:36:27.620 at least not from a Christian perspective.

00:36:30.640 I mean, the Bible is really clear

00:36:33.060 that our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit.

00:36:36.900 It's a dwelling place for the Holy Spirit

00:36:38.760 that we were bought with a price

00:36:40.240 that our body is not our own.

00:36:42.400 So while I do think modesty can be,

00:36:46.360 obviously it can be subjective in a lot of ways.

00:36:49.520 Like there's not this standard,

00:36:52.600 there's not really like an objective standard

00:36:55.320 that God says in the Bible

00:36:57.520 that your neckline has to be this high

00:36:59.420 or your skirt has to be this long

00:37:01.880 or you can't wear a tank top

00:37:03.640 or something like that.

00:37:05.680 And so that's why I think

00:37:07.920 it's a little bit of a tricky subject

00:37:10.260 because it's something that I think

00:37:12.220 starts on the inside.

00:37:13.480 It works itself outward

00:37:14.900 rather than the other way around

00:37:16.560 because it's not just some kind

00:37:19.660 of legalistic set of standards.

00:37:23.680 It is about, in all things,

00:37:27.040 for the Christian glorifying God

00:37:29.100 and loving Him

00:37:29.640 with all of our heart, mind, soul, and strength.

00:37:32.280 And our intentions behind what we wear

00:37:35.280 and how we present ourselves

00:37:37.220 are supposed to reflect a desire to glorify God.

00:37:40.960 Now that does have some standards, obviously.

00:37:43.940 Like it can't just be,

00:37:45.880 okay, yeah, modesty is whatever you want it to be.

00:37:48.980 But I guess I have a hard time saying,

00:37:51.700 okay, this is exactly what it is.

00:37:53.640 Beyond, okay, are you looking to glorify God

00:37:58.340 with what you're wearing

00:37:59.320 or are you looking to get attention?

00:38:01.880 Are you looking to provoke some kind of reaction

00:38:07.340 or are you looking to glorify God?

00:38:10.420 So I think that's where it starts.

00:38:12.400 Now, I haven't worked out exactly

00:38:14.120 what the rules are for where it ends.

00:38:17.780 But those are, I would guess,

00:38:19.180 my initial thoughts just kind of

00:38:21.580 on this whole controversial topic of modesty.

00:38:24.480 Modesty is important,

00:38:26.340 I think, both internally and externally.

00:38:28.680 But how exactly it looks like

00:38:30.900 for every single person,

00:38:32.280 that's going to be a very hard,

00:38:34.300 one-size-fits-all standard to apply, I think.

00:38:37.860 Yeah, I try to be somewhat flexible

00:38:40.780 with my definition of modesty

00:38:42.560 because from an Orthodox Jewish perspective,

00:38:45.380 we actually do have rules of covering your shoulders,

00:38:49.120 for example, covering your cleavage,

00:38:52.120 wearing skirts that come below the knee.

00:38:53.840 I mean, they're very strict rules,

00:38:56.020 ones that I took a few steps back from

00:38:58.400 and I'm now working my way back towards

00:39:00.360 just because that's my faith.

00:39:01.620 Oh, interesting.

00:39:02.560 But I also believe that not everyone

00:39:06.340 needs to keep the exact same rules that I do.

00:39:07.980 I think that there are just some specific things

00:39:10.640 that we should do, right?

00:39:11.460 So I try to encourage people not to show a ton of cleavage.

00:39:14.940 I try to encourage women not to wear skirts

00:39:17.520 that you're going to see everything

00:39:18.760 when someone bends over, that kind of thing.

00:39:21.440 But I try to say, you know,

00:39:22.960 it's not that it has to be entirely strict.

00:39:25.920 It's that there are certain things

00:39:27.840 you want to try and keep in mind

00:39:29.760 and there are certain standards that we should keep.

00:39:33.000 But again, those are flexible

00:39:34.740 because you think about in Indian culture,

00:39:38.500 their midriffs are often exposed

00:39:40.880 when they wear a sari

00:39:41.900 and that is entirely appropriate.

00:39:44.160 In America, in Western culture,

00:39:47.340 you know, it's kind of coming into fashion to do that,

00:39:50.040 but I wouldn't say that it's like a modest choice.

00:39:53.240 So it is a little bit of a different mindset

00:39:56.220 depending on where you are in the world.

00:39:58.280 It's almost, I mean, I think that those are good,

00:40:01.220 like, you know, that's a good kind of starting place,

00:40:05.400 what you laid out

00:40:06.180 and a good mentality to have about it.

00:40:08.740 It's almost like the definition,

00:40:12.000 the legal definition of obscenity.

00:40:13.860 Like, you can't define it,

00:40:15.060 but you know it when you see it.

00:40:16.380 It's a little bit the same, not completely,

00:40:18.660 but it's a little bit the same about modesty.

00:40:20.880 Like, it's hard to define for every single person,

00:40:24.200 but you know it when you see it.

00:40:26.060 Now, your brother and I had a disagreement about this

00:40:29.900 on his show, actually,

00:40:31.240 because, and I think that he is right.

00:40:34.820 I think that he is right.

00:40:35.900 I've maybe come around,

00:40:37.020 but I have never thought about leggings

00:40:39.200 as inappropriate or immodest.

00:40:42.080 I used to actually teach bar classes,

00:40:43.840 and so it was just a part of my,

00:40:45.960 like, everyday attire.

00:40:48.720 But he, I forget what he said on his show,

00:40:52.740 but basically he argued with me about it

00:40:54.460 and said that, you know, leggings aren't pants.

00:40:56.460 They shouldn't be worn without something over it.

00:40:57.980 And of course, I had a lot of fellow Christians

00:40:59.460 reach out to me and say, you know,

00:41:00.960 Ben is right, and you should be in line with him on this.

00:41:04.900 And I think that it's probably true.

00:41:06.960 I think that's probably true.

00:41:08.760 So, um...

00:41:10.000 One of the most popular...

00:41:12.000 Yeah, one of the most popular blog posts I ever wrote

00:41:16.080 was a few years ago.

00:41:17.900 I don't know if you remember this.

00:41:18.940 A Catholic woman wrote an article about,

00:41:22.940 to, like, the college newspaper,

00:41:25.440 saying that she had seen a couple of girls

00:41:27.220 come into church wearing leggings and crop tops,

00:41:30.400 and she just wished that women

00:41:32.500 were a little bit more modest, generally,

00:41:35.060 but also, like, within a church setting.

00:41:37.320 And people were ragging on her about it,

00:41:39.420 saying it was horrible,

00:41:40.240 and I wrote in this blog post,

00:41:41.880 actually, I think she might be right.

00:41:43.640 Um, this is something I've talked a lot about

00:41:45.320 with my husband,

00:41:45.980 because initially I had the same feeling

00:41:48.280 that you used to have,

00:41:49.680 of, what's the problem?

00:41:50.900 They're just leggings.

00:41:51.520 And then I realized, you know,

00:41:53.680 the excuse for wearing leggings,

00:41:55.460 despite the fact that they are,

00:41:57.500 in my opinion,

00:41:58.120 actually not very modest,

00:41:59.060 because they show so much,

00:42:00.480 is that either it's fashionable

00:42:02.320 or they're comfortable.

00:42:04.200 But if they're comfortable,

00:42:05.280 you can just wear sweatpants.

00:42:06.880 And if you don't want to wear sweatpants

00:42:08.300 because they're not fashionable,

00:42:09.800 then you're wearing them

00:42:10.580 because they're fashionable.

00:42:12.000 You're wearing leggings

00:42:12.860 because they're fashionable.

00:42:13.860 So it's kind of cyclical.

00:42:15.340 So, yeah.

00:42:15.940 I think that's a really good way

00:42:18.880 to explain the logic behind it

00:42:21.100 and to challenge someone

00:42:23.180 who, like me,

00:42:24.140 just never really saw

00:42:25.300 anything wrong with it.

00:42:27.380 But I think in a lot of things,

00:42:29.120 whether it comes to modesty or anything,

00:42:31.020 there are so many things

00:42:31.880 that we accept

00:42:32.780 or that are normal for us

00:42:34.340 that we don't think about

00:42:35.560 until someone challenges us on it,

00:42:38.540 like you just did,

00:42:39.540 and kind of push and prod

00:42:41.920 a little bit about our thinking

00:42:43.300 because chances are,

00:42:44.620 like we're not,

00:42:45.820 we're just not thinking about it.

00:42:47.480 But I think what you just did,

00:42:48.880 kind of asking that question

00:42:50.280 is a really good way

00:42:51.400 without getting people

00:42:52.520 to be defensive.

00:42:53.500 It's a really good way

00:42:54.640 to just get people to consider.

00:42:56.080 And maybe that's just

00:42:56.920 kind of a good standard,

00:42:58.040 what you just laid out

00:42:58.940 for modesty in general.

00:43:00.420 And it kind of goes back

00:43:01.300 to what I said too.

00:43:02.060 So we agree, like,

00:43:03.420 why am I wearing this?

00:43:05.060 Why am I wearing this?

00:43:06.220 Like, what is the point?

00:43:08.220 And I always ask myself,

00:43:10.060 which this is,

00:43:11.280 you know, it can be hard.

00:43:12.720 Okay.

00:43:12.900 I don't like what this shirt

00:43:15.200 looks like with a tank top

00:43:17.140 underneath it.

00:43:18.260 Okay.

00:43:18.880 Well, what's my reasoning

00:43:20.140 for not wearing

00:43:20.920 a tank top underneath it?

00:43:22.220 I know that it's more modest

00:43:23.740 with the tank top,

00:43:24.720 but I'm not wearing

00:43:25.400 a tank top underneath it

00:43:26.620 because I like how it looks.

00:43:27.680 Well, that's not,

00:43:28.300 that's not necessarily

00:43:29.260 a good enough reason

00:43:30.420 to not be as modest as I can.

00:43:32.140 And so I do find myself

00:43:33.580 having that conversation

00:43:34.620 of like, oh,

00:43:35.180 I really like how this looks

00:43:36.700 without this,

00:43:38.200 but I know that

00:43:39.340 it's more modest with it.

00:43:40.340 So am I actually going

00:43:41.580 to be okay

00:43:42.280 with consciously making

00:43:44.820 the decision

00:43:45.340 to be less modest

00:43:46.320 than I could be?

00:43:48.300 So, yeah,

00:43:49.160 I think that that's a,

00:43:50.300 that's a good kind

00:43:51.120 of line of questioning

00:43:52.240 that you laid out

00:43:53.060 for people to think

00:43:54.020 about that for themselves.

00:43:55.920 Yeah.

00:43:56.140 Well, that's it.

00:43:56.620 I'm glad I got to talk

00:43:57.800 about modesty on my channel.

00:43:59.260 I actually haven't had

00:43:59.960 a chance to chat about

00:44:01.520 this with anyone else.

00:44:02.500 I'm usually just talking

00:44:03.800 to my camera

00:44:04.520 and putting it out

00:44:05.600 on the internet.

00:44:06.080 So it's nice to actually

00:44:07.080 have it as a conversation.

00:44:08.260 Yes, for sure.

00:44:11.340 So I feel like we should

00:44:13.160 probably start wrapping up.

00:44:15.060 I just have a couple

00:44:15.900 more questions.

00:44:16.900 One is about dating

00:44:18.960 and relationships.

00:44:20.060 I know you talk about this

00:44:21.320 a lot on your podcast,

00:44:22.380 but what advice do you have

00:44:24.520 for young women

00:44:25.300 who are dating?

00:44:26.860 And I would assume

00:44:28.540 the ones who are following me

00:44:29.820 dating for marriage.

00:44:32.240 Yes.

00:44:32.880 And so I do recommend

00:44:34.060 dating for marriage.

00:44:35.960 I think a lot of women

00:44:38.400 probably who are watching this

00:44:40.260 aren't trying to waste

00:44:41.500 their time

00:44:42.300 just going through

00:44:43.100 a bunch of, you know,

00:44:45.120 flings and short-lived

00:44:46.700 unhealthy relationships.

00:44:47.800 So we probably don't even

00:44:49.100 have to go down that path.

00:44:50.900 One thing that I would say

00:44:52.280 that I don't know

00:44:53.160 is necessarily said that much,

00:44:55.700 especially within

00:44:56.440 Christian circles,

00:44:57.280 because the emphasis

00:44:58.080 is so much on marriage,

00:44:59.220 which I think it should be.

00:45:00.480 Marriage is beautiful

00:45:01.980 and a wonderful goal to have.

00:45:05.420 But I think that there are

00:45:09.420 some Christians who would say

00:45:10.520 as long as you find

00:45:11.860 another Christian,

00:45:13.800 as long as you find

00:45:14.540 a Christian man

00:45:15.280 that has generally

00:45:16.100 your same values,

00:45:17.200 then you don't have to worry

00:45:18.140 about anything else

00:45:19.160 and you should just marry them.

00:45:20.700 Because if you're trying to,

00:45:23.040 you know, not have sex

00:45:24.560 before you get married,

00:45:25.580 which is part of,

00:45:26.540 you know, the Christian

00:45:27.180 sexual ethic,

00:45:28.460 then you just need

00:45:29.500 to get married

00:45:30.200 to make sure that you don't

00:45:31.180 fall into that temptation.

00:45:33.380 And, you know,

00:45:34.720 some people have made

00:45:35.980 that decision

00:45:36.480 and they've gone on

00:45:37.200 to have beautiful

00:45:37.720 and wonderful marriages.

00:45:38.700 And I definitely

00:45:39.720 can't knock that.

00:45:41.160 From my experience,

00:45:42.620 I think that it is

00:45:43.660 so important to feel

00:45:46.260 that feeling of,

00:45:48.140 yes, I want to be

00:45:49.440 with this person

00:45:50.240 because I had dated people

00:45:51.760 who checked all the boxes

00:45:53.020 who were Christian,

00:45:54.280 had the same values

00:45:55.360 and, you know,

00:45:56.180 you could have gotten married

00:45:57.160 and maybe it would have been fine.

00:45:58.460 But I never felt like,

00:46:00.720 oh, I want to spend

00:46:02.300 the rest of my life

00:46:03.200 with this person.

00:46:03.840 I love this person.

00:46:04.780 There was always a feeling

00:46:05.920 of something's not right

00:46:07.920 and I don't know what it is.

00:46:09.240 But when I met my now husband,

00:46:11.180 I just knew.

00:46:12.120 I knew pretty immediately,

00:46:13.100 which is not everyone's experience

00:46:15.180 and that's fine.

00:46:16.280 But I knew at some point

00:46:18.100 that, okay,

00:46:19.060 without a shadow of a doubt,

00:46:21.180 I want to be

00:46:23.140 with this person forever

00:46:24.220 and you almost can't

00:46:25.180 put your finger on it.

00:46:26.120 Yes, of course,

00:46:26.640 you're physically attracted to them.

00:46:28.060 You think they're funny.

00:46:29.200 You like some of the same things.

00:46:30.980 You click.

00:46:31.520 But there's almost always

00:46:32.860 like this intangible thing

00:46:34.220 that you just love

00:46:35.000 about that person.

00:46:36.420 And what I would say is

00:46:38.060 if anyone,

00:46:39.320 say you are married

00:46:40.760 or you're engaged,

00:46:41.940 not married,

00:46:42.480 but engaged or dating,

00:46:44.240 then you're having these

00:46:45.400 like doubts

00:46:46.080 just inside your head

00:46:47.180 that you can't make go away,

00:46:49.640 that you keep pushing down

00:46:50.760 because you're like,

00:46:51.280 no, this person's a Christian.

00:46:52.320 He's a good guy

00:46:53.320 and I just have to get married.

00:46:55.240 You don't.

00:46:56.100 You don't.

00:46:56.880 You do not want

00:46:57.880 to be married and sad.

00:46:59.580 It is better to be single

00:47:00.540 than sad

00:47:01.120 than to be married and sad

00:47:03.400 because you didn't listen

00:47:04.880 to whatever it was,

00:47:06.500 to the conviction

00:47:07.280 of the Holy Spirit

00:47:08.140 telling you

00:47:08.700 that this is not

00:47:09.360 the right person.

00:47:10.220 I'm so glad

00:47:11.080 that I listened to that

00:47:12.760 and then ended up

00:47:13.900 marrying the person

00:47:14.460 I was supposed

00:47:14.880 to be married to.

00:47:15.820 But I just,

00:47:17.540 I don't want young women

00:47:19.320 who value marriage rightly

00:47:21.300 and who want

00:47:22.080 to be married rightly,

00:47:23.700 I don't want you

00:47:24.320 to rush into anything

00:47:25.360 or to pressure yourself

00:47:26.540 into marrying someone

00:47:27.520 just because they look good

00:47:28.520 on paper

00:47:28.900 if you don't love them.

00:47:30.300 A beautiful thing

00:47:31.300 about being alive today

00:47:33.300 in the West

00:47:34.320 is that we can like

00:47:36.520 and love the person

00:47:37.400 that we get married to.

00:47:38.280 We don't have to marry someone

00:47:39.320 that we don't love and like.

00:47:41.020 And that romantic love,

00:47:42.280 C.S. Lewis talks about it

00:47:43.540 a lot,

00:47:44.900 is important.

00:47:45.820 It's not going to be

00:47:47.540 the same kind,

00:47:48.920 you're not going to have

00:47:49.380 the same kind of feeling

00:47:50.300 that you did,

00:47:51.620 you know,

00:47:52.200 when you were dating someone,

00:47:53.580 but it's a better

00:47:54.360 and more lasting

00:47:55.240 and a stronger love

00:47:56.440 that develops

00:47:57.000 throughout marriage

00:47:57.900 that you actually work on

00:47:59.880 and work through.

00:48:01.380 But that romantic love

00:48:02.880 in the beginning,

00:48:03.840 that really liking

00:48:04.740 that person

00:48:05.240 that can't eat,

00:48:06.040 can't sleep,

00:48:06.880 I think that's important.

00:48:09.420 No, I totally agree.

00:48:11.160 I actually talk about this

00:48:12.000 on my channel

00:48:12.480 all the time.

00:48:13.240 The idea that

00:48:14.260 chemistry and compatibility,

00:48:15.420 people talk about that

00:48:16.540 all the time,

00:48:17.140 but really it matters.

00:48:18.300 You need to have

00:48:19.440 both parts

00:48:20.660 of that recipe.

00:48:22.180 And just having compatibility,

00:48:24.260 I've dated those guys

00:48:25.440 and it is nice,

00:48:27.140 but then you,

00:48:28.260 you don't feel anything

00:48:30.020 deeper than that.

00:48:31.220 And when you break up

00:48:32.220 with them,

00:48:32.760 often,

00:48:33.460 it's not like

00:48:34.580 you're heartbroken.

00:48:35.540 You just question it

00:48:36.520 because you were like,

00:48:37.180 well, we were so good

00:48:37.960 on paper.

00:48:38.480 And that's not the,

00:48:40.540 when you break up

00:48:41.760 with someone,

00:48:42.760 I don't think that's

00:48:43.740 how you would know

00:48:44.780 it was the right person

00:48:45.800 is like,

00:48:46.500 oh, it was so good

00:48:47.400 on paper.

00:48:49.000 Yes, chemistry

00:48:49.860 versus compatibility

00:48:51.180 is a great summation

00:48:53.320 of what I was talking about.

00:48:56.780 Absolutely.

00:48:58.260 And so last question

00:49:00.220 is work-life balance.

00:49:02.840 I think all women,

00:49:04.580 we're all looking for

00:49:05.760 a way to balance

00:49:07.540 all this, right?

00:49:08.800 Balance being mothers,

00:49:10.000 balance being wives,

00:49:11.140 balance work.

00:49:12.340 So do you have any tips?

00:49:14.840 Do you have any recommendations

00:49:16.220 or any life experience

00:49:18.100 that you could share?

00:49:20.100 Yes.

00:49:20.640 So you cannot be

00:49:22.060 a full-time,

00:49:23.440 you can't be

00:49:24.300 a full-time employee

00:49:26.220 or entrepreneur,

00:49:27.920 worker,

00:49:28.380 whatever it is.

00:49:29.360 You can't work full-time

00:49:30.580 and be a full-time mom.

00:49:31.940 You can't.

00:49:32.760 Something's got to give.

00:49:34.600 Like right now

00:49:36.320 to do this podcast,

00:49:37.280 there's something

00:49:38.000 that I'm not doing

00:49:39.120 to do this podcast

00:49:40.100 and or I would have

00:49:42.480 not done this podcast

00:49:43.280 to do something else.

00:49:44.100 Like life is about choices.

00:49:45.380 You're making a choice

00:49:46.540 every minute,

00:49:47.240 every hour

00:49:47.700 to do one thing

00:49:48.600 which necessarily means

00:49:49.620 you're not doing another thing

00:49:50.680 and that's okay.

00:49:52.160 Like there are some things

00:49:53.860 that are important

00:49:54.600 for you to be at

00:49:55.520 and for you absolutely

00:49:56.720 not to miss.

00:49:57.880 You are the only person

00:49:59.560 that can do a certain thing

00:50:01.900 for your child

00:50:02.520 or for your husband

00:50:03.160 or whatever

00:50:03.640 and you have to prioritize that

00:50:05.440 and fill that role well

00:50:06.700 and there are other things

00:50:07.980 that are movable.

00:50:09.080 There are other things

00:50:09.720 that are more flexible.

00:50:11.080 There are other things

00:50:11.740 that can wait a little bit

00:50:13.040 and that you can get to

00:50:14.080 a little bit later

00:50:14.820 so you can do this one thing.

00:50:17.440 You know,

00:50:18.100 there are all different kinds

00:50:19.300 of working moms.

00:50:21.300 Of course,

00:50:21.840 I'm very thankful

00:50:22.680 that I have a job

00:50:25.360 that is pretty flexible

00:50:26.800 that I can kind of

00:50:27.920 choose my schedule

00:50:28.940 and that I'm not working

00:50:30.740 in an office

00:50:31.540 40 hours a week.

00:50:32.600 There are some moms

00:50:33.520 that do that.

00:50:34.320 I will say

00:50:35.100 most of the friends

00:50:36.380 that I have

00:50:37.120 who, you know,

00:50:38.220 they worked kind of

00:50:38.940 the classic 40-hour job

00:50:40.600 and they had a child

00:50:41.960 and they swore

00:50:43.220 it would never be them

00:50:44.460 that they would stop

00:50:46.160 working full-time.

00:50:47.440 But then that just

00:50:48.900 internal tug,

00:50:50.320 that internal turmoil

00:50:51.640 that women feel naturally.

00:50:53.580 It's not society,

00:50:54.660 it's not the patriarchy.

00:50:55.840 It is natural that pull

00:50:58.200 to be with your child

00:50:59.580 and to be home.

00:51:00.800 That doesn't mean

00:51:02.200 that they will never work again.

00:51:04.100 That doesn't mean

00:51:05.100 that they don't work at all

00:51:06.660 in any way.

00:51:08.040 It does mean

00:51:08.860 that at least for right now

00:51:10.400 and in some ways

00:51:11.660 they are deciding

00:51:13.460 to prioritize being at home

00:51:15.920 and they find other ways

00:51:17.140 to work.

00:51:18.200 And that's what I feel like I do.

00:51:20.040 My priority is to be

00:51:21.960 a wife and a mom.

00:51:23.180 I fit my podcast.

00:51:24.500 I fit interviews like this.

00:51:25.960 I fit my book into that

00:51:27.720 rather than the other way around.

00:51:29.880 And I do feel like

00:51:30.920 that, you know,

00:51:31.980 I can do both.

00:51:32.980 Some days are harder than others.

00:51:35.180 Some days can be really difficult.

00:51:36.600 Some days you don't know

00:51:37.600 which one you should do

00:51:38.720 and at what time.

00:51:40.140 And that's okay.

00:51:41.180 You learn as you go.

00:51:43.000 Lean on people for help.

00:51:46.260 Hopefully your spouse

00:51:47.780 is very present

00:51:49.180 and is very engaged

00:51:50.580 and is very helpful.

00:51:51.580 My husband very much is

00:51:53.520 and he is actually

00:51:55.040 since the whole COVID thing

00:51:56.260 he's been working from home

00:51:57.440 for like a year and a half

00:51:59.120 which has been super helpful.

00:52:00.980 I know not everyone has that

00:52:02.460 but take advantage

00:52:03.940 of the help

00:52:05.640 that people are willing

00:52:06.980 to give you

00:52:08.280 and you'll figure it out

00:52:09.680 as you go.

00:52:10.620 And if you do decide

00:52:12.120 if you have a job

00:52:13.100 that you love

00:52:13.760 but you just

00:52:14.420 you can't do

00:52:16.560 like the full-time mom

00:52:18.100 and full-time work thing

00:52:19.340 if you quit

00:52:20.660 one

00:52:21.280 you will

00:52:22.860 figure it out then

00:52:24.560 but you'll also

00:52:25.360 figure it out

00:52:26.100 in the future

00:52:26.820 if you want to work again.

00:52:28.280 There are seasons of motherhood

00:52:29.560 just like there are seasons of life

00:52:31.260 and you might not

00:52:33.040 have to stay home full-time

00:52:34.280 in a few years

00:52:34.980 once they're in school

00:52:35.900 and it's just how it goes.

00:52:38.580 It's up and down

00:52:39.280 and back and forth

00:52:40.120 and different sacrifices

00:52:41.860 in different seasons

00:52:42.900 and I'm still very new

00:52:44.800 at all of this

00:52:45.500 and so I'm learning this as well.

00:52:47.740 But yeah

00:52:48.140 that's what I would say

00:52:49.820 it's very

00:52:50.320 it's not as cut and dry

00:52:52.740 as either you're

00:52:53.840 a full-time mom

00:52:54.800 or a full-time employee.

00:52:57.360 There are ways

00:52:57.920 in the 21st century

00:52:58.820 to make both work

00:52:59.940 you just have to decide

00:53:01.100 what your priorities are.

00:53:02.820 I love that.

00:53:03.840 I love that

00:53:04.360 and it's all about flexibility

00:53:05.500 which is what I totally got

00:53:06.960 from what you were saying

00:53:07.720 so that's awesome.

00:53:09.220 And on that note

00:53:10.160 thank you so much

00:53:11.220 for coming on my channel.

00:53:14.560 Thank you so much

00:53:15.660 for having me.

00:53:16.240 Yeah, if you could

00:53:17.020 just let everyone know

00:53:18.000 where they can find you.

00:53:19.800 Yeah, so I host a podcast

00:53:20.900 called Relatable.

00:53:22.100 We talk about

00:53:23.100 culture, theology, news

00:53:25.300 sometimes politics

00:53:26.800 from a Christian

00:53:27.700 conservative perspective

00:53:28.820 four times a week

00:53:30.040 Monday through Thursday

00:53:31.080 wherever you get

00:53:31.920 your podcast.

00:53:32.800 You can also watch

00:53:33.420 on my YouTube channel

00:53:34.500 I'm on Instagram

00:53:36.440 Twitter

00:53:37.000 all that good stuff

00:53:38.020 you can just kind of

00:53:38.960 I guess search

00:53:39.860 Allie Beth Stuckey

00:53:40.620 I'll probably pop up.

00:53:43.440 Perfect.

00:53:43.880 Thank you so much

00:53:45.140 again

00:53:45.420 and I hope

00:53:46.500 I can have you on

00:53:47.120 in the future.

00:53:47.980 Thanks Abby

00:53:48.680 I appreciate it.

00:53:50.160 Thank you so much

00:53:51.000 for watching today's video

00:53:52.100 I hope you guys enjoyed it.

00:53:53.940 Let me know in the comments

00:53:54.920 what you guys thought

00:53:55.800 I'd love to hear.

00:53:56.900 Make sure that you are

00:53:57.960 subscribed to my channel

00:53:59.000 and hit that notification bell.

00:54:00.660 If you're not already

00:54:01.800 subscribed to my

00:54:02.700 Substack newsletter

00:54:03.420 to get exclusive content

00:54:04.720 not available anywhere else

00:54:05.760 make sure to head to the link

00:54:06.660 in the description box

00:54:07.460 because you can do so there

00:54:08.700 and I'll see you guys

00:54:09.900 in my next video.

00:54:11.420 Bye!

Classically Abby - July 15, 2021

Self-Love Culture Is TOXIC. Allie Beth Stuckey Is Here To Tell You WHY. ｜｜ Let's Be Classic #6

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