Dale Partridge - September 12, 2023


Christ & Chronic Illness Pt. 2： Suffering like Christ - Dale Partridge


Episode Stats


Length

47 minutes

Words per minute

151.89418

Word count

7,181

Sentence count

371

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

10

sentences flagged

Hate speech

10

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Samuel Rutherford in approximately 1640 once wrote,
00:00:30.000 You cannot be above your master who received many an innocent stroke.
00:00:34.080 The greatest temptation out of hell is to live without trials.
00:00:37.980 A pool of standing water will turn stagnant.
00:00:40.740 Faith grows more with the sharp winter storm in its face.
00:00:44.540 Grace withers without adversity.
00:00:46.620 You cannot sneak quietly into heaven without a cross.
00:00:49.940 Crosses form us into his image.
00:00:52.300 They cut away the pieces of our corruption. 0.94
00:00:54.420 Lord, cut, carve, wound, do anything to perfect your image in us and make us fit for glory.
00:01:00.360 We need winnowing before we enter the kingdom of God.
00:01:03.480 Oh, what I owe to the file, hammer, and furnace.
00:01:06.840 Why should I be surprised at the plow that makes such deep furrows in my soul?
00:01:11.660 Whatever direction the wind blows, it blows us to the Lord.
00:01:14.980 His hand will direct us safely to the heavenly shore to find the weight of eternal glory.
00:01:19.840 As we look back to our pains and suffering,
00:01:22.440 we shall see that suffering is not worthy to be compared to our first night's welcome home in heaven.
00:01:27.400 If we could smell of heaven and our country above, our crosses would not bite us.
00:01:34.240 Lay all your loads by faith on Christ.
00:01:37.120 Ease yourself and let him bear all.
00:01:39.560 He can, he does, and he will bear with you.
00:01:42.520 Whether God comes with a rod or a crown, he comes with himself.
00:01:47.300 Quote, have courage.
00:01:48.700 I am your salvation, end quote.
00:01:50.540 Welcome, welcome Jesus, end quote.
00:01:57.400 Okay. Well, that is quite an introduction to the discussion of suffering today. And again,
00:02:21.100 that was written in 1640 by Samuel Rutherford. He has a, I don't know if it's a collection of
00:02:26.800 letters. I think it's actually called The Collection of Letters of Samuel Rutherford,
00:02:30.580 but it's a Puritan paperback. And I read that first in my devotional from the Banner of Truth,
00:02:38.600 which is called Voices from the Past, Part One. And it was when I was suffering deeply.
00:02:47.060 And there's just a handful of really intense lines in there. I don't know if you were
00:02:52.240 uh following with me there but you know the greatest temptation out of hell is to live
00:02:57.600 without trials yep that's right you know and so we're here today part two part two talking about
00:03:05.720 suffering um and this is a four-part series on christ and chronic illness sharing my story but
00:03:15.440 also sharing trevor's story if you're new here this is trevor west he is a leader in my church
00:03:21.680 and a soon-to-be elder in the church
00:03:26.180 to be appointed here next week.
00:03:29.040 Lord willing.
00:03:29.600 And for those that are just tuning in
00:03:32.980 for the first time on this episode,
00:03:34.340 give a little bit of background on you.
00:03:36.160 Yeah, my name's Trevor.
00:03:38.540 Been here with ReLearn,
00:03:41.980 with the ministry for about a year and a half.
00:03:44.440 And my wife and I moved here from Texas
00:03:47.940 and have five beautiful kids. You're the guy behind the camera.
00:03:55.940 I'm the guy that is normally not seen and is just sticking behind the camera. So that's my
00:04:02.260 usual bread and butter. And you have also been chronically ill.
00:04:06.080 Yeah. Yep. So I've been diagnosed with celiac and Crohn's and have suffered with
00:04:13.660 migraine headaches for almost, yeah, 20, 22 years now at this point. So
00:04:20.520 dealing with chronic illness has been a long journey. I would say more
00:04:27.940 than the last 10 years, but really specifically the last 10 years with the celiac and Crohn's.
00:04:36.860 So it's been an ongoing thing for my family. And you're mostly well.
00:04:41.200 Mostly well. We are essentially all but healed from all of the major symptoms that come with
00:04:50.200 Crohn's and celiac disease. So by God's grace, we're able to do that through diet exercise
00:04:57.100 and not having to rely on medications for very long. So that's been a real blessing for our
00:05:05.260 family and uh the lord used it to to grow us in our our faith and walk with him yeah amen so um
00:05:15.100 we're basically breaking down this episode in a couple parts talking about suffering uh sovereignty
00:05:22.380 yeah uh and i wish you can come up with a bunch of s's for the rest of them but it was just
00:05:27.560 contentment and joy yeah uh in the face of this kind of suffering so um yeah let's let's just
00:05:33.960 start it off sure and uh have this discussion absolutely yeah so our first question this week
00:05:40.100 is what is suffering so yeah and i want to say this last like this podcast isn't coming out
00:05:48.180 the week after the first one why because i was suffering last week extensively and kind of
00:05:57.380 honestly into this week a bit yeah and so we couldn't even record last week because
00:06:01.820 my kidneys were hurting so bad that I was out for the vast majority of the week.
00:06:08.260 And I'm recording late this week because of the same issues.
00:06:13.760 Yeah. Yesterday I was in bed probably half the day. I'm adjusting to the new altitude.
00:06:20.700 My body's releasing more toxins at a higher elevation. I know that might sound like tinfoil
00:06:26.920 hat to somebody but when it's currently raining outside which makes it more humid and more humid
00:06:32.220 and there's moldy stuff that's going on in here it's also like a million degrees in here and so
00:06:37.180 we are i'm not kidding it's probably like we usually have a temperature gauge around us but
00:06:41.340 like it's probably 89 degrees in here yeah and like 30 to 40 humidity yeah so we're making it
00:06:49.940 guys um okay so the question is yeah what is suffering so uh you know essentially the
00:06:56.060 Suffering is the effects of the fall on the constitution of man, the faculties of man from your, you know, your body to your mind, to your emotions, to your circumstances.
00:07:05.940 And it can manifest itself in a variety of ways, right?
00:07:08.200 So sickness and death and tragedy and heartbreak, sorrow, depression, loss, pain.
00:07:14.040 And I would even say it can also manifest itself in discipline.
00:07:16.640 I think we saw that in Samuel Rutherford's quote.
00:07:19.680 It says, whether God comes with a rod or a crown, he comes with himself.
00:07:23.960 Amen.
00:07:23.980 And so the Lord might be, you know, disciplining you in this particular moment.
00:07:31.060 And to think that God can't use suffering as a means to discipline his children would be naive.
00:07:38.800 So we'll talk a little bit about that.
00:07:41.260 Job 14.1 says, man who is born of woman is few of days and full of trouble.
00:07:48.600 And so I think that we've seen in our, you know, I don't care how old you are, if you're old enough to be listening to this show, you've had some form of suffering at some degree, but why do we need to have a theology of suffering?
00:08:05.120 and you know why now my experience is that i wish that i had more of my theological understanding of
00:08:15.160 suffering in scripture before i entered into suffering because i spent a lot of time
00:08:20.600 really trying to take god off trial is this god's fault is is the enemy causing these things to
00:08:29.220 happened to me and God couldn't stop him? What's the purpose of the trial? Why sickness? Why sin?
00:08:37.600 These are big questions that you want to have answers for before a tragedy strikes or a child
00:08:43.120 dies. I kind of liken those moments to my Job moment where you are just lamenting so much to
00:08:53.780 the point to where you're you're questioning your own existence yeah or you know is the gospel true
00:09:00.000 your your doubts or questions or whatever might come in you know i remember hearing a story about
00:09:05.160 john mccarthur i might have shared this last time but you know his wife got in a really terrible car
00:09:08.880 car accident broke her neck yeah and he walks into the um to the hospital and his son who's you know
00:09:17.880 an adult man says there's been a terrible accident and mccarthur's quick response was there is no
00:09:23.320 accidents right you know pray for the pray for the grace of god yeah um and what that tells me
00:09:29.460 is that obviously macarthur had a theology of suffering prior to the tragedy and so it's
00:09:34.880 important for us to have that kind of suffering or that kind of theology so that it really can
00:09:41.200 the word of god can carry us yeah uh instead of our emotions amen carrying us because it's hard
00:09:47.560 I mean, I wept this week. This last week, I was sincerely frustrated with the up and down nature
00:09:57.400 of being chronically ill. You are just constantly feeling like one step forward, two steps back.
00:10:06.400 And when you have a problem like your kidneys, it's like a major organ, right? So you're just
00:10:11.840 like, okay, like, is this going to be my new normal? Are my kidneys dying? Like, am I having
00:10:17.980 kidney failure? You know, like you start having crazy thoughts about, you know, transplants and
00:10:25.440 whatever else, right? You just start thinking to these things because your mind can race and you
00:10:30.220 have to come back to the cross. You have to come back to the truth of scripture. Now for the lost,
00:10:34.720 Suffering is a foretaste of hell.
00:10:38.260 It is essentially, this is a little piece of what you will experience eternally if you don't turn from your sins and trust in the righteousness of Christ alone.
00:10:50.160 That's right.
00:10:50.420 Now, for the believer, what it does is it magnifies or amplifies the desire for heaven
00:11:02.400 and detaches us from the love of this world and this body.
00:11:09.460 It reminds us of what we long for.
00:11:12.080 Yes.
00:11:12.540 Yeah.
00:11:12.880 And I think that's a good thing for us to be reminded of.
00:11:17.920 I'm not going to read this passage of scripture, but it's Hebrews 12, 3 through 17.
00:11:21.780 And it talks about how the Lord uses essentially difficulties and discipline.
00:11:27.700 He disciplines those he loves.
00:11:30.400 And so just if you want to understand how the Lord might use suffering.
00:11:34.340 Now, does God inflict sickness?
00:11:37.880 Well, there's a difference.
00:11:38.820 You want to use language that's very clear.
00:11:40.600 Does he permit you to be sick for a season that he might use that sickness to conform you and accomplish something in you?
00:11:52.180 Allowing something versus inflicting it yourself are two different things.
00:11:56.700 Yes.
00:11:57.060 Yeah.
00:11:57.740 Meaning that he restrains himself to the natural responses of...
00:12:06.140 Now, again, God is sovereign over everything, so he allows and permits everything.
00:12:09.360 And we're going to get into the sovereignty of God over evil and the sovereignty of God over suffering and pain and sickness.
00:12:15.320 Which is actually a great comfort.
00:12:17.560 Yes, because if God's not in control of it, then who is?
00:12:23.360 Then who is?
00:12:24.640 And if it's Satan, then you have this thing, what we would call is dualism.
00:12:28.620 Now, we have to remember that when Job was afflicted with all types of things, including
00:12:42.860 illness, the boils on his skin, but the tragedy of his family dying, we have to remember that
00:12:49.220 it was God who said
00:12:51.120 to Satan, have you
00:12:53.280 considered my servant Job?
00:12:55.800 Yep. Twice.
00:12:57.660 Yeah, twice. So we have that
00:12:59.180 God is actually the initiator
00:13:01.540 of the trials
00:13:03.120 upon Job's life.
00:13:05.700 And when Job asks
00:13:07.240 for
00:13:08.640 an explanation,
00:13:12.080 an explanation, you just get basically
00:13:13.820 two full chapters of
00:13:15.400 where were you when I
00:13:17.720 laid the foundations of the world? And do you know, and have you understood? And it's just
00:13:22.740 basically God saying, I'm God and you're not. Right. Reminding Job who he is. Yep. And the
00:13:30.080 reminder of who God is, the awe that we should have for him, it essentially allowed Job to
00:13:38.940 place his hands over his mouth and just stop speaking altogether. Yeah. I am vile is what he
00:13:45.820 says. And so John 9, another instance of kind of suffering, which again, we're going to get into
00:13:52.580 the sovereignty in a second, but it says, as he passed by, he saw a blind man from birth and his
00:14:00.340 disciples asked him, Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus
00:14:06.440 answered, it was not that this man sinned or his parents, but that the works of God might be
00:14:10.800 displayed in him. So we know that God has permitted this man to suffer, that essentially God's glory
00:14:20.820 would be shown in him in that particular experience, plus the rest of his life as he
00:14:26.340 probably continued to tell people that he was able to see because of the power of Christ.
00:14:32.280 So that's kind of the answer of what is. Yeah. When I think of often, whenever I think about
00:14:38.360 suffering I think specifically to Romans 5 where Paul says that suffering leads to endurance and
00:14:48.700 endurance leads to character and character leads to hope and that hope does not put us to shame
00:14:53.380 because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us
00:14:58.040 and there is a great comfort in seeing that pattern laid out in scripture but then also
00:15:07.800 witnessing it practically in your own life when we are in the midst of suffering when we are in
00:15:16.380 the midst of a week where you can't do the things that you were expecting to do there's a reason
00:15:23.460 for that suffering and it leads to endurance and it leads to character and it leads to hope and
00:15:28.880 the ultimate hope is that one day these bodies which are sick and are decaying will be glorified
00:15:36.560 with christ and it pulls again it pulls you away from this desire for everything to work here
00:15:43.700 right because that's what we want we want everything to work here yeah and in our culture
00:15:48.100 it's it's a i want a quick fix yeah so let's make it work now yeah instead of essentially operating
00:15:57.360 weak right and i feel like this is what the lord has done in my life
00:16:02.260 his strength is made perfect in my weakness.
00:16:07.620 We know this is a true fact.
00:16:09.600 It's a principle of scripture.
00:16:11.600 And we see this through David's writings in the Psalms
00:16:16.220 that God has accomplished more in me
00:16:21.960 and through me through the means of me being weak.
00:16:26.820 And so I think just recognizing
00:16:31.020 that there is a blessing in trials.
00:16:34.520 Again, we don't want to just be thankful
00:16:38.900 and grateful in the trials,
00:16:41.940 but actually for the trials.
00:16:43.320 I said that last week or last episode
00:16:45.420 because God is accomplishing something.
00:16:50.080 And if it's an early invitation
00:16:54.160 to our heavenly home,
00:16:56.600 we need to pray for strong faith
00:16:58.720 in the midst of these things
00:16:59.580 to give us that posture because you know what again if you're you know if your body's failing
00:17:07.220 right now or if you're um having a cancer diagnosis or if you're just you got ibs and
00:17:15.540 it's just ruining your month yeah or whatever it may be um these trials are designed in such a way
00:17:28.400 we can say this with certainty, to draw us to God. And it doesn't mean that we don't weep,
00:17:34.840 and it doesn't mean that they're not terrible, and it doesn't mean that we should be some
00:17:38.260 masochistic desire to want them more. But we can see that the Lord is good, and we can trust him,
00:17:45.220 and we know that he does right, and that he will use all these things for our good and his glory.
00:17:50.760 Amen. All right. Second question. How does the sovereignty of God intersect with our experience
00:17:58.580 of suffering? Okay. This is like one of the biggest questions on earth. Yeah. I said earlier,
00:18:06.960 we got to take God off trial. How does the sovereignty of God, the doctrine of the
00:18:11.360 sovereignty of God, which again, I think I'm realizing more and more that people
00:18:16.180 who struggle with, say, Calvinism
00:18:18.800 or struggle with even things like post-millennialism
00:18:22.880 or covenant theology or suffering,
00:18:27.680 doctrine of suffering,
00:18:29.040 if they just had their doctrine of God right,
00:18:33.120 everything else would make sense to them.
00:18:36.800 Oh, if God's completely sovereign and God is God,
00:18:39.500 then of course God is sovereign over all things,
00:18:41.860 not just the good things, but the bad things.
00:18:44.440 he's actually sovereign over sin.
00:18:48.840 And the question immediately becomes like,
00:18:51.800 well, what language do you use?
00:18:53.720 Does God cause sin?
00:18:54.680 How did sin enter into the world?
00:18:56.760 Why is it here?
00:18:58.080 One thing I will say is that we know that sin and suffering,
00:19:02.080 God designed a world.
00:19:05.760 Now he designed a world where he gets the most glory.
00:19:11.100 Okay, he didn't design,
00:19:11.980 there's not another world where he would have received more glory. If there was,
00:19:17.160 he would have created that world. Now, we often go, why did God create this world with pain and
00:19:25.760 suffering and sin? And the answer is that God created a world with pain and suffering and sin
00:19:30.560 because he saw that he would get the most glory in a world that had pain and suffering and sin.
00:19:35.780 Now, the new heavens and the new earth, the second part of that story, I think will be a magnified sense of glory. But God doesn't do something like at 80%. This is the best plan. There was not a better version of history that included you not being well.
00:19:59.900 right exactly or you you being well and not being sick yeah right like whatever the circumstances
00:20:05.920 are god has written the story now again i know we're trying to struggle with man's sovereignty
00:20:12.920 or man's responsibility and god's sovereignty right this is the one of the great mysteries
00:20:17.300 of scripture is how does the sovereignty of god and the responsibility of man intersect yeah and
00:20:23.540 Which is still, there's a vast amount of mystery to that because God is sovereign and yet we still have a will, but we know that our will is never actually free.
00:20:36.320 Yeah, it's either enslaved to sin or enslaved to Christ.
00:20:39.680 We know we also have free agency.
00:20:42.360 We're not being manipulated to move in a certain way, but God is orchestrating the events of the world in a way that operates to every minute detail.
00:20:53.180 I always remind people like the design of the line of ants in the middle of the desert where nobody sees them has been designed by God to operate that way and that shape.
00:21:09.580 And he's meticulously sovereign.
00:21:13.680 And so I wrote an article in 2021 called Why Does God Allow Evil in the World?
00:21:19.440 You can go read it on relearn.org, but I go deep into this topic.
00:21:25.240 John MacArthur, I have a quote here from him.
00:21:27.380 It says, we cannot divest God of the existence of evil.
00:21:29.980 He has taken responsibility for permitting its existence, end quote.
00:21:34.440 This is, again, the permissive will of God and the decisive will of God.
00:21:38.500 And there's this multidimensional character of God that we struggle to see.
00:21:43.640 I mean, there's a book by D.A. Carson called The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God.
00:21:48.320 and he talks about how God has multiple dimensions of love
00:21:52.400 and one of those loves is a discriminatory love
00:21:55.660 and in the same way that you,
00:21:59.420 in a sense, you love all women
00:22:01.220 but you have a special love for Julia
00:22:05.160 and you discriminate against other women
00:22:08.880 in order to love Julia.
00:22:11.960 In the same way, right,
00:22:12.980 we know that God essentially discriminates his love
00:22:16.120 to the church. He did that also to the Jebusites versus the Israelites. And so God has a
00:22:24.020 discriminating... So there's multidimensional perspectives of God that we put into these
00:22:29.280 categories to help us understand. So I'm going to read some scriptures that I think are helpful
00:22:34.760 for understanding the meticulous sovereignty of God. It says, Isaiah 45, 7, God says,
00:22:41.320 I form light and create darkness. I make well-being and create calamity. I am the Lord
00:22:49.820 who does all these things. Amos 3.6 says, God says, is a trumpet blown in a city and the people
00:22:58.140 are not afraid? Does disaster come to a city unless the Lord has done it? Acts 22-23, which
00:23:06.140 is just the greatest example of the sovereignty of God over the greatest tragedy that's ever
00:23:12.760 happened on earth. Men of Israel, hear these words, Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you
00:23:18.540 by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst. As you
00:23:24.020 yourselves know, this Jesus delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God,
00:23:31.720 you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. 0.82
00:23:36.860 So you have this, again, God's sovereignty, man's responsibility, right?
00:23:39.820 You have this Jesus delivered up according to the definite foreknowledge of God,
00:23:44.040 a definite plan of foreknowledge of God.
00:23:45.280 That's God's sovereignty.
00:23:46.240 He was delivered up.
00:23:49.200 You know, what does Jesus say?
00:23:51.260 Take this cup from me, but if not, not my will be done, but yours.
00:23:57.600 And his will was done.
00:23:58.940 His will was to be slaughtered on that cross.
00:24:01.220 But then it also says, Peter says in this verse in Acts, you, I could see him just like pointing out to them, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men, right?
00:24:12.460 So we have to realize that God is meticulously involved in all of the things in the world.
00:24:22.480 It doesn't mean that we can again just rest back and go, I'm not going to do anything because God is sovereign over all things.
00:24:27.220 because he still calls us to also behave properly and to stand for truth and to take care of
00:24:32.600 ourselves and, and to, you know, uh, you know, I think about even just kind of the old ceremonial
00:24:39.040 law. A lot of it was, it was health related. I mean, I think it was keeping his people alive by
00:24:44.700 don't touch dead bodies without washing your hands, you know, um, don't eat certain things
00:24:49.160 because, you know, you know, the certain, we found out that some of those things that people
00:24:53.920 were eating were not good for you to be eating. There's a lot of sexual transmitted realities and
00:25:01.200 stuff that was going on before the cleanliness routines that we have today around circumcision
00:25:08.420 and some of those things that are happening at that time that was maybe keeping them and their
00:25:13.480 line, their seed going more. So there's not just spiritual realities, but health benefits. And then
00:25:20.280 Again, I'm not the self-love guy, but God actually cares about your body. I talked about this on
00:25:26.300 Sunday when I was preaching, is that God doesn't just redeem your soul, but he actually redeems
00:25:32.980 your body physically. And so 1 Corinthians 6 says that God bought you with a price, therefore glorify
00:25:42.380 God in your body and soul, which are God's. And so God owns your body, so therefore you have to
00:25:48.220 care for it i mean again um i think there's a scripture what it say uh says uh you know love
00:25:53.920 your neighbor as you love yourself people are like see i don't love myself so i can't love my
00:25:57.740 neighbor and it's like no you do love yourself yeah it's why you put a jacket on when you're cold
00:26:02.880 and it's why you don't touch the hot stove because it hurts and it's why you give yourself
00:26:07.860 food when you're hungry you already love yourself right love people like you love yourself which is
00:26:13.260 think about their needs. Now, at the end of the day, also, we can get so incredibly
00:26:19.080 irresponsibly busy. And this is what our generation is full of, right? We have a whole
00:26:27.460 bunch of workaholics that are fat and dying, overweight, drinking themselves to death, 1.00
00:26:34.680 taking pharmaceuticals, eating terrible food. We're one of the first generations that have, 0.98
00:26:39.280 from birth essentially relied on fast food, frozen meals, all of these conveniences
00:26:47.800 that ultimately, given the amount of unedible things put into them, have essentially made
00:26:59.140 our generation and the following generation after us chronically ill, where we did not
00:27:06.800 have the foundation that was set in place for the generations before us.
00:27:13.400 I mean, literally every generation, like say 1900 and back, had organic food.
00:27:18.640 Yeah. It didn't need to be classified.
00:27:21.200 All food was organic, right? And they all had cleaner air because this is before the
00:27:28.880 industrial revolution. They all had natural springs. Obviously, there was still problems
00:27:35.160 in the world but what i'm saying is that we we certainly have got the short end of the stick as
00:27:39.560 it pertains to like again all of their clothing was organic right you know they they weren't
00:27:45.800 wearing there's this new book i said i think on the first episode it's called like to die for
00:27:49.640 dye and it's about the idea of dyes and our food and our clothing and how it's certainly causing
00:27:58.680 you know problems that didn't have plastic you know like they're we are living in a generation 0.85
00:28:03.960 where for the first time in a long time, the millennials are actually going to die earlier
00:28:12.180 than boomers did. So we're starting to see that shift. And so many people are sick and suffering
00:28:18.300 at this point. So there is wisdom in the sense of like, you should care for your body in the
00:28:25.480 sense that we live in a pretty toxic world right now that is aiming to insert some sort 0.58
00:28:33.820 of nasty garbage into your body at every given point.
00:28:39.000 I mean, we have like, you know, again, being chronically ill, you have to have all these
00:28:41.980 things, but we have, you know, air purifiers and we have Berkey water filters and we have,
00:28:45.600 you know, no VOC stuff.
00:28:49.000 and we buy, we try to buy organic clothing and sheets. And I mean, we shop at, you know,
00:28:56.160 Sprouts and Whole Foods and we, there's so many modifications.
00:29:00.080 Out of necessity, not because we're bougie.
00:29:02.120 Yeah, right. Yeah.
00:29:03.140 It's because we have no other choice.
00:29:05.560 Yeah. I'd love to go buy meat at Safeway.
00:29:08.580 Yeah. Just go get a like McDonald's quick chicken nugget meal or something.
00:29:15.000 Yeah. There's just a price to pay that we're all paying right now.
00:29:17.820 And so anyways, God is sovereign over all of this and we get to be responsible for our actions, but we also get to realize that he's in control. It's not Satan attacking you and God's with his hands tied behind his back going, oh man, I wish I could help him.
00:29:36.840 right um it's not pray hard enough uh that you know maybe if i have enough faith then god will
00:29:44.040 let these trials go right no no it's that lord give me the strength in these trials walk with
00:29:51.960 me through walk with me through it to persevere um take them from me if it is your will yep um
00:29:59.160 I submit to these trials, accomplish in me what you need to accomplish quickly.
00:30:06.940 Use me in this weak state.
00:30:11.820 Show me the value and prepare me for glory.
00:30:18.760 That's the posture.
00:30:20.260 Yeah.
00:30:21.460 It's not wanting to just remove the pain and the suffering just so that I can feel better.
00:30:28.220 And move on.
00:30:28.780 and move on. Right. There, there is something to learn in all of this. I, uh, I've been often
00:30:34.100 reminded of this quote from, uh, the, the book, the hiding place by Corrie Ten Boom, uh, where
00:30:41.780 her sister, the backstory is, is there in the book if you want to go read it, but, but her sister
00:30:46.680 essentially tells her there are no what ifs in God's kingdom. Yep. And if you know anything about
00:30:53.200 the story in that book, there were a lot of reasons to ask, you know, like, why is this
00:31:01.600 happening? Like, what if it had happened some other way? And there's just a great comfort in
00:31:06.180 knowing because of God's sovereignty, I don't have to ask what if. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. This is God's
00:31:13.820 plan. And even if you screw up, you do something really stupid. Which we will. Which we will and 1.00
00:31:21.380 we do. God, again, permitted those things to occur and we'll work it together for your good
00:31:29.840 and his glory. And so even once the tragedy's done, you're like, well, it's done. I don't look
00:31:36.880 back. I'm going to look forward. I'm going to press on. I'm going to trust that the Lord will
00:31:40.920 work all these things together. I've repented or whatever it may, you moved on. Be thankful for the
00:31:46.360 day that the Lord has given you amen amen all right next question is how are Christians supposed to
00:31:52.320 respond in the face of suffering okay so contentment and joy right so this is kind of what we were just
00:32:01.460 talking about contentment and joy in trials um we don't have conditional contentment
00:32:09.100 or conditional joy we have unconditional contentment and unconditional joy because
00:32:16.360 the grounds by which our joy and contentment are not of this world. They're in Christ.
00:32:25.760 And so because Christ is the only condition by which we find contentment, if we have Christ,
00:32:33.300 we have enough. And our joy is dependent upon Christ alone. And so our contentment and joy
00:32:44.000 become the unconditional nature of that helps us to face anything. This is why, again, why
00:32:57.740 Christians have been martyred while smiling, or while Christians have been martyred while 0.94
00:33:03.340 praising and praying to God. What's the girl's name? There's a series, Perpetua, I think is her 0.89
00:33:11.540 name there's a series on for kids it's like the torchlighters church history series right and you
00:33:18.740 know they're they're kind of praising god for their a trial of being essentially eaten alive by
00:33:24.560 animals like there are people historically if you read fox's book of martyrs um that can find
00:33:35.020 contentment and joy in the most
00:33:36.760 torturous things right
00:33:38.620 and so
00:33:40.520 this is often why I actually talk about
00:33:42.940 people who have suicidal thoughts I remind them
00:33:44.940 I go born again
00:33:46.780 believers
00:33:47.220 while they are
00:33:50.240 imprisoned or
00:33:52.880 you know you talk about the hiding place
00:33:55.080 there was also what's the guy's name
00:33:56.580 tortured for Christ right
00:33:58.740 and then his wife wrote a book called the pastor's
00:34:01.100 wife
00:34:01.380 I think they just came out with a movie about that 0.97
00:34:05.020 But, you know, God gives people perseverance to suffer through torture.
00:34:12.680 Like they won't take their own lives.
00:34:15.220 Right.
00:34:15.340 Like these are people who are being beaten.
00:34:18.480 The guy from...
00:34:19.560 The reasonable thing would be to end it. 1.00
00:34:22.700 Kill myself. 1.00
00:34:23.340 Yeah. 0.99
00:34:23.560 That's the...
00:34:24.200 Yeah.
00:34:24.380 And they don't.
00:34:25.760 And that's the thing I always tell people that are suicidal or thinking...
00:34:29.020 Call themselves Christians and are suicidal.
00:34:31.500 I go, I go, do you got to remind yourself that there are people that would wake up every day 1.00
00:34:36.640 and their feet would get beaten with rods until they were bleeding. And then they would sing
00:34:44.080 Psalms. And there was a quote, I forgot the guy's name from that. He goes, we had to deal with the
00:34:51.200 prison guards. We praise Christ and they would beat us. And that was like, I just go, that's
00:34:57.940 the sign of a born-again Christian because what suffering does to a Christian is that God says,
00:35:04.140 hey, to the enemy, you can afflict this person and watch him glorify me. Watch him glorify me
00:35:12.560 into the world. So every affliction you put upon this Christian brother or sister, 1.00
00:35:18.580 he's going to glorify me because I'm in him and I'm going to sustain him. And that sustaining
00:35:25.200 in the face of it to an onlooking world becomes evangelistic. Literally, people are like,
00:35:30.400 how are you happy in the midst of your trial? How are you happy in the midst of your suffering?
00:35:35.540 How are you joyful and content in the midst of tragedy? That is literally the question.
00:35:43.640 And we have to realize that's being done, that God's glory shines through us.
00:35:48.360 and so again be careful uh for those who are suicidal and i always tell people just examine
00:36:00.340 yourself because the christians are not to be suicidal we are to be people of hope yeah yeah
00:36:09.120 i think of uh philippians 4 where it says do not be anxious about anything but in everything by
00:36:16.120 prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your request be made known to god and it says
00:36:21.320 and the peace of god which surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and minds
00:36:27.440 in christ jesus it's either true or not yeah exactly and so if you're not seeing those things
00:36:35.540 as being true and you've patiently examined you really do need to go am i saved right now again
00:36:43.800 I would rather cast doubt upon a person
00:36:48.060 and make them examine themselves
00:36:51.280 to see if they're really saved
00:36:52.780 than have anyone have a false assurance of salvation
00:36:58.260 and me not question them.
00:37:00.060 Yeah, exactly.
00:37:01.120 Steve Lawson quote,
00:37:02.520 the only thing worse than not having the assurance of salvation
00:37:05.320 is having the false assurance of salvation
00:37:07.700 is to think you're saved when you're actually not.
00:37:09.440 So I just go,
00:37:10.240 if you're not seeing the fruit of the spirit
00:37:12.040 and the evidences of scripture in your life.
00:37:15.400 If you don't see,
00:37:16.020 if you don't read 1 John chapter five
00:37:17.740 and you're like, that's my life.
00:37:19.240 Or not 1 John chapter five,
00:37:20.380 just all of 1 John.
00:37:21.560 That's, I mean, that's essentially,
00:37:22.480 it's a letter to Christians to affirm them
00:37:24.280 that they're Christians
00:37:24.860 if they're seeing these certain things in their life.
00:37:27.460 So if you're not seeing those things in your life,
00:37:29.540 like you should be concerned.
00:37:32.900 And it's not a call to question somebody saying like,
00:37:36.380 well, I just, I don't think that you're saved.
00:37:38.700 It's more so like you're saying,
00:37:40.080 it's consider what I'm saying and weigh this out with what you see is true about your own life.
00:37:48.180 Because we live in America. Right. In the modern era where we have people that try to persuade you
00:37:53.780 through easy believism and a prayer and you did some religious act, but you never actually
00:37:59.580 repented of your sin. God never actually regenerated your heart. You've never had a
00:38:03.460 spiritual resurrection. And a lot of people in America think they're saved. They came to church,
00:38:07.940 but they never came to Christ. So it's just a real thing. Okay, moving on. 1 Thessalonians 4.13
00:38:14.580 says, but we do not want you to be uninformed brothers about those who are asleep that you may
00:38:20.360 not grieve as others who have no hope. So grieving is a form of suffering. And we don't grieve like
00:38:26.700 those who, if we have brothers and sisters that fell asleep in the Lord, they died in the Lord.
00:38:32.980 We don't grieve like those who have no hope because our hope is in Christ, which is
00:38:37.400 unconditional. That's right. Philippians 4, 11 through 13 says, for I have learned in whatever
00:38:42.280 situation I am to be content. Okay. Just boom. Like, let's just leave it right there. We can
00:38:47.360 close up shop, just walk away because like that is so whatever situation. So Paul, so you're saying
00:38:54.820 that if you were getting beaten with lashes, you'd be content in that? Yes. Paul says. Yeah. And this
00:39:01.200 is the same chapter that I was just referencing. Yes. He was saying that you can find peace
00:39:07.100 with God through Jesus and then immediately goes on to say this.
00:39:11.340 Yeah. And you just go, so Paul, you're saying that you can be content being wealthy. Yes.
00:39:17.240 Yeah. It's much easier, but there's still a reality of like, I can be content in any situation.
00:39:24.600 Right. Verse 12 says, I know how to be brought low and I know how to abound. That's interesting.
00:39:31.080 Yeah. There's a way to abound. Because he's not saying that we should seek after
00:39:35.960 the lowly side of things.
00:39:39.840 Say, hey, I've been in both.
00:39:41.060 I've been poor.
00:39:41.780 I've been homeless.
00:39:42.740 I've also sat and dined with kings.
00:39:46.240 You know, he says,
00:39:47.300 in any and every circumstance,
00:39:48.900 I have learned the secret
00:39:50.100 of facing plenty and hunger,
00:39:53.200 abundance and need.
00:39:55.260 I can do all things through him,
00:39:57.420 Christ, who strengthens me.
00:39:58.940 Amen.
00:39:59.160 This passage of scripture
00:40:01.420 is about the endurance
00:40:03.640 that Christ gives the believer
00:40:05.720 in the midst of trials yeah have we in america have misused that oh yeah a little bit yeah yeah
00:40:10.340 it's uh you know you're you have a you have like a four patty burger in front of you and you're
00:40:14.840 like i can do all things through christ you strengthens me yeah so there's um what's there
00:40:20.360 there's a coffee cup it's like i can do all things out of a verse taken out of context
00:40:23.620 something like that exactly um romans 5 you mentioned this earlier uh i'm going to read
00:40:29.580 it again not only that but we rejoice in our sufferings we rejoice in our sufferings knowing
00:40:34.440 that suffering produces endurance endurance produces character and character produces hope
00:40:37.620 and hope does not put to shame because God's love has been poured out to our hearts by the Holy
00:40:41.760 Spirit who has been given to us. I'm going to give a couple more just because scripture is
00:40:46.960 telling us the truth here, right? It's the balm that makes suffering possible.
00:40:53.520 Possible. Yeah. James 2, 1 through 4. Count it all joy, my brothers, whenever you meet trials
00:40:58.500 of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness and let
00:41:03.880 steadfastness have
00:41:04.560 its full effect
00:41:05.080 that you may be
00:41:05.480 perfect complete
00:41:06.000 lacking to nothing
00:41:06.640 then we get to
00:41:09.020 essentially I think
00:41:10.120 a great place to
00:41:10.860 close on this
00:41:11.940 episode of
00:41:13.360 suffering which
00:41:14.120 again is not
00:41:14.700 robust by any
00:41:15.440 means and there's
00:41:16.000 great books on
00:41:17.260 suffering I wish I
00:41:18.180 had gathered some
00:41:19.160 of them for you
00:41:19.880 but I know that
00:41:20.700 if you if you can
00:41:21.660 find anything on
00:41:22.380 the Puritans or
00:41:23.200 Matthew Henry or
00:41:24.400 that's writing about
00:41:26.300 this suffering I
00:41:28.300 know Joel Beakey
00:41:29.180 had released
00:41:29.820 something about
00:41:30.460 grieving and I've
00:41:32.960 heard that was
00:41:33.340 pretty good but
00:41:33.780 Anyways, Romans 8.18 says,
00:41:34.980 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time
00:41:37.080 are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
00:41:42.580 That's right.
00:41:43.740 So we think it's so terrible right now,
00:41:50.880 and we have to anchor down into Christ and into his word
00:41:55.540 and into these promises so that when the trials come
00:41:59.140 and the storms come, we have something to hold onto.
00:42:02.820 Amen.
00:42:02.860 And so I think about Rutherford's line.
00:42:08.280 It says, if we look back to our pains and sufferings,
00:42:10.080 we shall see that suffering is not worthy to be compared
00:42:11.960 to our first night's welcome home in heaven.
00:42:14.360 That's right.
00:42:15.620 And again, I told you, you know,
00:42:17.160 I just had a member of our church mom pass away,
00:42:22.280 go to be with the Lord.
00:42:23.940 Earlier this year, I think it was this year,
00:42:26.720 no, it was last year.
00:42:27.380 Um, uh, I had a brother, 43 years old, colon cancer and, you know, got the privilege to walk
00:42:35.480 him to the Lord. Um, and these are the things that I say to these people in suffering is that we want
00:42:44.380 to anchor them in. And again, ideally you want to be anchored in far before those, those things come
00:42:51.080 that's right in your life and so you know i i think of uh a.w tozer's uh book uh the knowledge
00:42:58.540 of of the holy oh yeah uh which for me like the greatest comfort to walk through suffering with
00:43:08.380 is knowing again like we talked about the sovereignty of god but it's it's more than
00:43:14.660 just realizing, yeah, yeah, sure. God is sovereign. Like it is finding the, the awe
00:43:21.200 of God, knowing that even in my suffering, God still holds me. God still is walking me through
00:43:31.340 and we'll see what he began in me to complete. And if you just for a second, remember that
00:43:38.480 you're not worthy of any of it right like honestly like when paul talks about his thorn in his side
00:43:46.720 and god responds my grace is sufficient for you yeah i i just go can we remember for a second
00:43:54.720 that honestly everything beyond salvation is just cherry on the top like every extra day
00:44:00.480 every hour of pleasantries, every laughter, even the times of suffering are essentially
00:44:08.760 extra days of life, more breaths in our lungs. And we don't deserve any of it.
00:44:17.140 Yeah, that's right. 0.98
00:44:18.100 What we deserve is to be immediately cast down in death and eternal fire. 0.96
00:44:24.800 Yeah. If we got what we deserved, we would not like the outcome.
00:44:28.600 Yeah, we don't want justice. We've been given mercy. And so when we think of it that way,
00:44:34.660 we go, oh, you know what? My life's actually really good. Even if I am suffering, I'm saved.
00:44:39.020 In Christ, all is well.
00:44:40.380 All is well.
00:44:41.360 So Dale, what do we have upcoming for the next episode?
00:44:45.500 Well, we're going to be talking about part three, which is a biblical lifestyle for healing.
00:44:51.580 you know i'm no doctor on this stuff but what i want to talk about is the things that i've done
00:44:58.940 the things that you've done right that websites resources authors books issues talk about mold
00:45:05.660 talk about lyme disease talk about autoimmune stuff talk about environmental illness and
00:45:10.620 how to have your house be a place of healing and some of those things right right don't worry we're
00:45:16.220 not going new age on you um but we're going to just talk about the things that i think are biblical
00:45:20.180 um and and god created you know microbes and viruses and parasites and and toxins and all
00:45:28.180 this kind of stuff and you know i think christians need to be the ones that are actually fighting to
00:45:32.220 restore order in the world right and so we need to figure out you know what's going on with our
00:45:38.600 world like what's killing us yeah like what is it it's obviously a combination of things
00:45:43.200 but we need to be the ones that are leading out that charge getting people on on committees to 1.00
00:45:48.360 fight things like, you know, there's a slag pile here in this area that we've had some brothers 0.93
00:45:56.040 and sisters fighting back to get that removed. Yeah. It's like a giant pit of heavy metals, 1.00
00:46:02.000 fine dust that's flying through our air in our city. Right. And we got Christians fighting for
00:46:07.460 that. That's our role is to fight, to make, you know, where we're living a healthy place so that
00:46:16.600 we can glorify God and, uh, and point people to Christ. Amen. So all that and more. And then our
00:46:23.320 last episode, uh, we'll be talking about, you know, just some different stuff around, uh,
00:46:28.460 supplementation, uh, some other resources that might be helpful for that. So we might, maybe
00:46:33.200 we'll put it in all to number three. We don't know yet, but thanks for joining us on this episode
00:46:37.800 of real Christianity. And we'll see you guys next week. See ya.
00:46:46.600 We'll be right back.