Dale Partridge - How Can House Church Strengthen My Family？

00:00:00.000 Hey there, and welcome to How We Do House Church. My name is Dr. Jason Barker, and I

00:00:12.260 am the academic dean at Reformation Seminary. At Reformation Seminary, it's our mission

00:00:16.640 to train men to plant biblical house churches. Now, as always, I'm joined by our founder

00:00:21.800 and president, Dale Partridge. Dale, how's it going?

00:00:23.700 Hey man, this conversation today is important because it deals with the family, which is the heart of the church in terms of just its members.

00:00:35.860 And so, just excited for the conversation.

00:00:38.260 Yeah, so today's question is, how does a house church minister to and involve my family?

00:00:45.800 Yeah. The core thing about a house church that I would say is different from a traditional church

00:00:54.140 is we are family integrated. Now, there are family integrated traditional churches.

00:01:01.540 There's a history of age segregated ministries that a lot of people don't know.

00:01:07.140 And I think there's a rising movement of Christian families that are going,

00:01:11.680 I want to be in a church that is family integrated. So whether it's a house church

00:01:15.600 or whether it's a traditional church, I would encourage people to be in a family integrated

00:01:20.300 church. We don't see in scripture, a age segregation of the children from the adults.

00:01:27.980 We don't see a age segregation from certain age children to other age children.

00:01:34.500 And so someone once asked me, why is the family so divided? And I say, well, the church is often

00:01:40.960 not helping. Because when you show up to a traditional church and you really see a divide,

00:01:47.820 you see that mom and dad go to the main sanctuary and then the children go to another sanctuary,

00:01:53.140 they divide. And what that teaches children is that that is dad's church. This is my church.

00:01:59.140 That's dad's pastor. This is my pastor. That's boring and this is fun. And so you create this

00:02:06.480 experience where it is a divisive experience where now you are actually having your children

00:02:13.320 seek spiritual development and maturity and direction from somebody that's not dad.

00:02:21.360 And usually a youth pastor that is in a traditional model can oftentimes be less qualified, if

00:02:28.380 not not qualified.

00:02:29.600 Um, and so there, we also would look at the traditional model or the, the, uh, outsourced

00:02:38.660 children's ministry model.

00:02:40.460 And we need to ask ourselves a question, has this been a good experiment?

00:02:45.140 Like, are we seeing Christianity, the faith, the gospel being passed down multi-generationally

00:02:52.780 from father to child, you know, to grandchild?

00:02:57.100 Is that evident in this generation that all those 90s, 1990s and 1980s and early 2000s youth groups was a good thing for the church?

00:03:07.580 I think we can unequivocally say it was not a good thing, meaning that, yes, there are people that were saved.

00:03:14.240 There are good things that happen inside of bad ideas.

00:03:17.040 It doesn't mean that the bad idea is a good idea.

00:03:20.840 There are people that get saved in the World War II concentration camps.

00:03:26.880 We don't need to create concentration camps for people to get saved.

00:03:29.740 I know that's a pretty intense analogy, but, you know, people are like, oh, there's people

00:03:34.120 saved in, uh, in, at the porn convention.

00:03:38.420 You know, we, we, we preach the gospel at the porn convention.

00:03:40.860 I'm like, well, it doesn't mean that we go just to porn conventions to preach the gospel,

00:03:45.180 right?

00:03:45.580 There are good things happen inside of bad things all the time.

00:03:48.120 It doesn't mean that it validates the bad thing as being a way we should do other things.

00:03:54.300 And so youth ministry in itself is something that I think we need to really reevaluate as a church.

00:04:01.980 We know that in a book of Ephesians, we see Paul addressing the children directly in chapter six,

00:04:10.100 as if they are expected to be in the congregation.

00:04:13.340 We see all throughout the Old Testament that whenever there's the reading of the scriptures,

00:04:18.800 that it says to bring not just the child, but the baby.

00:04:21.720 and everybody of the people of God to be there to listen.

00:04:27.480 And so this has been an extra biblical addition 0.51

00:04:30.480 because we want to get the kids out

00:04:34.000 because they're loud 0.92

00:04:35.980 and parents don't know how to parent their own children 0.55

00:04:37.780 and teach them how to be quiet.

00:04:39.360 And so we get them out.

00:04:41.180 I think about the children that walk up to Jesus 0.59

00:04:43.520 and the disciples are like, 0.94

00:04:45.820 let's get these kids out of here.

00:04:47.720 And Jesus is like, no, let them come to me.

00:04:51.720 And we often have the posture of the disciples.

00:04:57.980 We want to get the kids out because I want to pay attention to the sermon.

00:05:01.040 I often say, hey, if the kids aren't crying, the church is dying.

00:05:04.820 And so we want babies, we want to tune our ears to the sounds of children and enjoy them.

00:05:10.980 Now, we also want to be able to be parents that are sufficient at child training so that when Sunday comes, our children know how to obey.

00:05:21.720 And at our house church, you'd be shocked because we've had 30 kids under the age of five and we've

00:05:30.880 been able to have a totally normal service where we are communicating and preaching and we're not

00:05:38.960 having interruptions. And so we are a family integrated model by design. And so house church

00:05:49.580 really brings your family in together. And it allows for me as a pastor and a preacher

00:05:56.580 to not just preach to the adults, but to preach to the children.

00:06:01.060 Exactly. Right.

00:06:02.020 And so it just creates a really wonderful, I think, more biblically accurate expression of the church.

00:06:09.220 You know, I think this one in particular is a big enough topic with families that it probably

00:06:13.420 warrants a future podcast separately on this topic. There's just a lot to that.

00:06:19.580 there. Now, when we think about the house church, the biblical house church, one of the distinctives

00:06:26.200 of it is its size. It is a smaller, more intimate gathering. We've talked about that quite a bit.

00:06:31.880 And one of the things that comes with that is you can't simply come to a house church

00:06:35.880 and observe. You're coming to be a participant in that. Now, when it comes to families,

00:06:41.300 how do the biblical roles of men and women play out in service and participation in the church? 0.53

00:06:48.240 Yeah, so biblical church requires biblical gender roles in the church. In a traditional model, if a woman came to church, she's not going to have the opportunity to speak because there's only one microphone and it's on stage. 0.98

00:07:10.360 And if she stood up in the middle of the room, started to speak and preach, the deacons would 0.96

00:07:14.260 pull her out, right?

00:07:15.540 And so in a house church, that is more likely to occur, where that if you're not very clear

00:07:25.900 about what the Bible says regarding gender roles for men and women at specific moments

00:07:31.420 in the church, it's very easy that you might have somebody come as a family and in the

00:07:38.160 middle of preaching, a woman might ask a question or interrupt or start teaching. Well, we subscribe

00:07:44.500 to what the scriptures teaches that women are not to teach in an authoritative position at the church

00:07:49.720 gathering on Sunday. Now, that doesn't mean that women aren't involved or aren't engaged.

00:07:58.020 And so men are called to do the praying. Men are called to do the preaching. Men are called to the

00:08:02.920 positions of church governance and eldership and deaconship. But women are also participating in

00:08:09.140 prayer requests and praise reports and singing hymns and making song recommendations and

00:08:16.520 also in caring for the little ones and preparing the hospitality for the day. And also after church,

00:08:26.060 when those prayer requests have gone out and those teachings have occurred, there is oftentimes

00:08:32.580 times discussions amongst the ladies and amongst the women and prayer for one another and discussions

00:08:37.760 among the men and the women together. And it creates this real unified biblical expression

00:08:42.660 of church. Now we have to remember that the church is attempting to reinforce the biblical

00:08:46.920 roles of the family. So when you have gender roles at church, it's really because it's trying 0.73

00:08:54.380 to reinforce that dad is the spiritual leader of the home. He is called to provide and to protect

00:08:59.480 and to protect by shepherding his family towards the gospel. And a woman is called to submit to 1.00

00:09:05.680 her husband in those spiritual roles and leadership. It doesn't mean that a woman can't

00:09:09.740 ever teach. It doesn't mean that a woman can't ever have a voice in Christian life. It doesn't

00:09:16.380 mean that a woman can't be an evangelist and share the gospel. I think my experience has been that

00:09:23.940 women who are loved, heard, and cherished by their husbands never have a problem with

00:09:33.900 biblical gender roles. But women who have not experienced a godly husband who loves them

00:09:41.400 and cherishes them and hears them, it creates a point of contention. One thing I often say to

00:09:49.680 ladies that are maybe coming in out of a wounded relationship when they want to maybe participate 0.77

00:09:55.180 in church in a way that is incongruent with scripture is I remind them of the passivity 0.84

00:10:03.660 problem of men today. And while the women aren't saying something, instead of being so frustrated

00:10:11.980 about me not being able to speak, be excited about that young man who finally stepped up to

00:10:19.760 pray for his family. Right. Because one of the things that I've really appreciated about House

00:10:24.240 Church is it's almost a training ground for men to step up into roles that they should be doing

00:10:34.060 in the home. And because it's a small, intimate gathering, there's an opportunity for every

00:10:39.800 every man to serve in some capacity. And it really forces them to step up into those roles.

00:10:47.340 And learning to lead in that public setting, they're far more comfortable learning to lead

00:10:52.120 at home. Because one of the challenges is that churches have done a good job at telling men 0.58

00:10:59.320 what the responsibility is, but haven't really done a great job at telling them how to do it.

00:11:03.660 Yes. So we give men an opportunity in the house church model to pray, to teach, to maybe read scripture aloud, to bring a discussion on a certain topic, to kind of banter back and forth under the oversight of elders around something that has been taught.

00:11:26.280 we engage the men so that the men can not check out, not be passive, and step in to that role

00:11:35.700 that they are called to fill, which is the spiritual leader of their homes. And so again,

00:11:41.100 I always like to encourage the ladies. I go, let's just be excited that that man is praying,

00:11:45.040 not be so frustrated that you're not praying. And so it's a long journey, a great study.

00:11:51.740 There's a book by Tom Schreiner, who's probably the leading theologian on this topic.

00:11:56.620 He wrote a book called Women in the Church, and he did a great, very balanced, very theologically

00:12:04.660 supported exposition on women in the church that's an inch and a half thick.

00:12:12.840 And it's worth reading for anybody that might be struggling with that position or still

00:12:18.480 not understanding the biblical mandate for gender roles in the church, what that means,

00:12:23.720 where does the jurisdiction of those roles begin and end? Does that mean that women can't teach

00:12:30.100 or preach anywhere? What does that look like? And so that book does a fantastic job of answering 1.00

00:12:35.500 those questions. But yes, we do have gender roles, essentially. We have gender roles,

00:12:40.420 and we are modeling what scripture calls to model in the family, in the home.

00:12:44.520 And it is a wonderful harmony of men and women walking out their roles in Scripture.

00:12:55.740 And I say when it's done right and faithfully, it's beautiful.

00:13:01.540 And nobody has a problem with it.

00:13:03.880 We really allow men to be men and allow women to be women.

00:13:07.640 And it creates a wonderful expression in the church that our children get to grow up and see.

00:13:14.520 and, and prepare themselves to walk in those roles. And it's a real great environment to

00:13:23.700 nurture that, that truth in our kids. Yeah. You know, when we've had these discussions in

00:13:29.120 these podcasts, you've used a word a couple of times and it's the word invasive. And I think

00:13:34.480 one of the hurdles for people in thinking about house church is that it is invasive. While we

00:13:41.480 want that intimacy and that invasiveness. We also fear that intimacy and that invasiveness.

00:13:47.040 So talk for a minute as we're getting ready to wrap up here. Why is that invasiveness a good

00:13:52.700 thing for families? Yeah. So we have invasiveness on two dimensions, right? So we have an

00:14:00.820 individualized, independent, freedom-focused, self-focused, me-focused culture. And so House

00:14:09.280 church invades that because it permeates and perpetuates a culture that is fighting against

00:14:17.640 yourself and trying to make you into a member of a body, a participating, dependable, reciprocating,

00:14:28.400 engaged, committed member. And our flesh hates it. But when you start to see the fruit,

00:14:38.400 of being in a otherness structure,

00:14:45.160 a biblical New Testament reciprocating lifestyle

00:14:52.920 where you're just in life with one another.

00:14:56.280 It's invasive to our American view.

00:15:00.100 Now, on the other dimension,

00:15:02.200 house churches are invasive to the culture.

00:15:04.540 They are able to be planted and spread in strategic places and neighborhoods that invade a town.

00:15:15.880 And they create an opportunity where they, for example, our house church, we have three neighbors that are a part of our house church now.

00:15:26.220 And more and more neighbors are hearing about our house church.

00:15:29.600 And we are very much intending to take over our neighborhood.

00:15:34.540 we are building a colony for Christ in our little spot.

00:15:40.300 And we want people to come.

00:15:42.240 We want people to know that we exist.

00:15:44.660 And we want to invade. 0.70

00:15:47.920 I actually wrote a thing.

00:15:50.020 I pulled my phone here real quick,

00:15:51.180 but I wrote on Reformation Seminary's Instagram account.

00:15:54.560 I put out a quote that says,

00:15:56.020 Would you rather have one church with 2,000 members and 10 elders

00:16:01.440 or a hundred house churches, 10 families each, and 200 elders.

00:16:07.420 The first is big.

00:16:09.360 The second is invasive.

00:16:11.680 Think about a small town with a hundred house churches with 10 families each

00:16:16.600 with a few hundred elders spread all over the town.

00:16:26.260 this becomes again just a deeply engaged church with their community the gospel goes out neighbor

00:16:36.600 to neighbor we have to remember the most explosive times of church history are when the church is in

00:16:42.920 homes now it's often homes because of persecution but i'm really challenging the idea of i think

00:16:51.620 that it's a better way to gather even when it's not in a time of persecution. And the home just

00:16:59.680 becomes more invasive to our society. And so it obviously also produces an ability to be

00:17:06.100 out of government oversight. It also produces, you don't have to be a nonprofit. You don't have

00:17:11.060 to have leases and bank accounts. So there's a little bunch of benefits there as well. But

00:17:15.040 we're invasive and that's what our that's our goal is to go therefore and make disciples of

00:17:22.080 all nations uh we know that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church we know that

00:17:26.020 all authority has been given to to christ in heaven and on earth we know that the kingdom

00:17:29.820 of god is like a mustard seed that's going to grow and leaven like that's going to leaven the

00:17:34.000 whole lump and so let's get out there in houses multiplying invading the culture for christ that's

00:17:41.460 That's right. Dale, I've loved our opportunities to dialogue on these podcasts, but there is never 1.00

00:17:47.520 enough time. One thing we could recommend is that people pick up a copy of your book,

00:17:51.740 How We Do House Church. How can they get a copy of this?

00:17:54.400 Yeah, you can go to relearn.org and get a copy. That's our companion ministry.

00:18:01.380 There's a shop there that has it. You can also get it on Amazon.

00:18:05.000 We make a little bit more money as a ministry if you buy it from us,

00:18:07.920 But you can pick it up on Amazon. You can read it in about an hour and a half. It's really a guide. The subtitle is The Biblical Doctrines and Convictions of Reformation Fellowship, which is our fellowship of house churches at reformationfellowship.org. It's the kind of sister ministry to Reformation Seminary.

00:18:30.180 Awesome. And of course, if you have any questions about how to be trained to plant a biblical house church in your neighborhood, you can always head to reformationseminary.com and fill out an inquiry. We would love the opportunity to talk with you about becoming a student and really answer any questions that you have about house church.

00:18:48.140 Because I think, Dale, the exciting thing about these podcasts, it's not just the information that we're getting out there.

00:18:54.360 It's the dialogues that are happening in homes as people are beginning to discuss, hey, what if we were to do this?

00:18:59.500 Or, hey, you know what?

00:19:00.700 I was talking to someone the other day and they mentioned it's starting those dialogues about house church.

00:19:06.640 We want people to come be trained to plant, pastor, and preach at a biblical house church.

00:19:12.300 Yes.

00:19:12.580 Absolutely.

00:19:13.440 Well, that's all the time that we have for this episode of how we do house church.

00:19:16.940 Just as a reminder, these are available in both video and podcast form across all formats.

00:19:22.800 Thanks so much for joining with us today, and we'll see you next time.

Dale Partridge - September 12, 2022

How Can House Church Strengthen My Family？

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