Real Christianity #059： Is Your Pastor Biblically Qualified？
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Summary
In this episode, we discuss the question of whether or not your pastor is Biblically qualified to be a pastor. We talk about what the Bible says about what a pastor should be, and why it's important to have a pastor who meets those criteria.
Transcript
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Welcome to Real Christianity. Today we are talking about
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I think an important conversation for the church today is the pastor of the church that you're at biblically qualified.
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We've actually done a couple episodes on this topic or around this topic.
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We did an episode titled The Seven Criteria of a Biblical Church.
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You're welcome to listen to that. We kind of briefly touched on the issue that we're going to talk about today.
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And we also did one called Is It Okay for a Pastor to be Rich or Wealthy?
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and, again, just talking about the posture and character of a pastor.
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you can always go to relearnchurch.org forward slash listen.
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as well as the show notes for those episodes, including this one.
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And it's just available for you, the YouTube video, the audio download.
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One other thing I want to mention before—actually, I'm going to say two other things
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I want to mention before we dive in to today's episode is this. We are just finishing up.
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Finally, as I've been talking about the Ultimate Marriage Program, I've been kind of taking you
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guys along every episode. We're done. We're almost done with all the edits. We're just at this point
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mastering the files, getting everything beautiful, making sure the flow and the experience is great.
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We might even launch Ultimate Marriage by the time this episode airs. So we're getting very
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close. If you're interested in becoming a part of our six-week marriage mentor program with your
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small group or individuals, go to ultimatemarriage.com. And if we hadn't launched it yet,
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you can be signed up to be notified. And if you just go to ultimatemarriage.com forward slash
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notify, you can do that. Otherwise, you can sign up if it's open by the time you get there. So
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we'll find out. We're just making sure that we get everything perfect before we launch.
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So diving into the conversation, I think that many, if not most Christians, have been kind of placed themselves under a shepherd or a pastor without really evaluating if they meet the Bible's criteria for ministry or for pastoring.
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And I think it's likely because we confuse spiritual giftedness with spiritual qualification.
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I want to say that again because I want you to catch that.
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I think we really look at spiritual giftedness instead of spiritual qualification.
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And this is where I think a lot of people kind of get tripped up or deceived in this.
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And our hope for this episode is really that you would have the tools, the understanding, and the resources
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to assess if you're being shepherded by someone who really meets the criteria,
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the Bible's criteria for what a shepherd really is.
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yeah um speaking on that just recently um a friend of ours uh told us a story about one of
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their friends who is um a current who was currently an unemployed worship pastor um and they were
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looking for a job at a church and he recently had an interview with the pastor and was um offered
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the job but uh he wasn't sure if he should take the job and so he called our friend and said so
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i got the worship leader position but i want your thoughts on a few things and he mentioned that the
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pastor is single childless and a woman and he was asking our friend if he thought it was okay for
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him to accept this position yeah and so uh we got two things to deal with here one the first is the
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fact that a worship leader someone that's a leader in the church yeah and if you listen to our podcast
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on worship music yes that last week or something like maybe a couple weeks ago we touch on this a
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lot if you're a worship leader if you're you are actually shepherding in a position of shepherding
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yeah you're in a position of leadership um now the fact that a worship leader is asking this
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question is really bad enough. So that's its own issue. But there's also really like a sad
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sincerity about this question. I really think that this poor guy, he loves Jesus and has really no
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idea what the Bible says about what qualifies or disqualifies a person from being a pastor.
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And unfortunately, I think that this is kind of a universal ignorance of the church. I think this
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is a pretty common, uh, lack of knowledge. And I say this because this is really a part of our
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story too. Um, several years ago, you know, we, we didn't know what to look for. And I'm going to
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ask Veronica, you know, when you first became a Christian, um, and you first started going to
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church, what was it that you were looking for in a pastor? I did, did you even know what to look
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for in a pastor? What was your experience there? No, I think I, when I gave my life to the Lord
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and i became a believer um and wanted to follow christ and everything that i did said and thought
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um i just kind of took their word for it if you're on the pulpit then i'm would just like i never
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even thought like oh there's qualifications i just assumed that they were and then as i uh developed
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in maturity and reading the word more and being around other um stronger believers i would hear
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you know, like they went to so-and-so seminary and things like that. So then I was like, oh,
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okay, they, they must have to go to seminary. It's like any other job, right? You go and you
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get a degree. Yeah. And then there were also incredibly gifted. I know when I was saved,
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I was, I personally was saved due to a very, um, gifted speaker and, um, I felt super convicted
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of my sin and that's when i gave my life to the lord um but yeah it was just maybe maybe i thought
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like oh maybe they just they have to be gifted they have to be talented in that area to be able
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to teach yeah yeah so you're saying that really there's i think common things that what we think
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is qualifications are is oh they they have their mdiv from this seminary right their masters in
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divinity their seminary graduate there yeah i didn't even know what those like words words meant
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they went to bible college right or i remember someone was like oh he went to
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dallas theological seminary and i was like oh okay cool just thought it was like any other
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college yeah did i know it was like one of the best ones yeah and so you have this this idea
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of seminaries and then you have um the idea of oh they're really gifted just because they can
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teach means that they should teach um and then i think the most common thing is well you just
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believe because the you're new to the church and you don't know much about the bible and you assume
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that the people that are running the church know a lot about the bible therefore this is a trustworthy
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person or a qualified person in this position to be guiding us and leading us yeah which now you're
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having all types of pastors of any type of background today pastors that are uh homosexual
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pastors you're having issues we're having things with uh women pastors you're having things with
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pastors who are not married we have pastors that are single or uh no no children pastors with with
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no training pastors um that are still walking in sin there there are so many different issues that
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are going on today in terms of pastoring um that it's uh yeah it's an issue really sad it is an
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it is an issue yeah um so an old theologian once said a really important quote i want to share it
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today it says the man first builds the institution but then the institution begins to to build the
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man and again i think it's what happened is that kind of the church we built this idea of the
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church and the institution and the seminary and all the things and then all of a sudden now we're
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learning a lot from the institution instead of from the bible and so i think christians are so
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biblically illiterate that they actually go to church and they just believe everything that
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their church does is somewhere in the scriptures. And this is, you know, really all about deception.
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And the thing about deception and being misled is that when you're being deceived and you're
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being misled, you don't know that you're being deceived or being misled. And the only way that
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you can actually determine if you're living in a lie or living in a false experience is by going
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back to the scriptures, going back to the Bible and measuring, uh, your experience against what
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God says your experience should be. Um, and now again, there shouldn't be any doubt in the church
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when we're measuring, you know, a pastor against scripture, because, uh, the Bible is super clear
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and it lays it out exactly what the qualifications of a biblically qualified pastor are. They do
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that. The Bible does that in 1 Timothy chapter 3 and Titus 1. It's also, you know, throughout the
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scriptures, there's stuff in Acts, there's stuff in Peter. There's a variety of things even in the
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Gospels and understanding what a shepherd is to do. And we're going to look at those qualifications
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in a minute. But there is definitely no reason to not know because they are so clear in the
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scriptures, as you guys will see shortly. Yeah, something that I found really interesting is that
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the actual word pastor is only mentioned one time in the entire bible i know such a weird
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yeah and it's basically a word that describes uh the position and the position which dale will
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break down is shepherd um but for the word pastor being mentioned so few times in scripture
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it's amazing how many titles we have built upon just that name yeah um yeah so there we've got
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the worship pastor, as we've mentioned, the youth pastor, the children's pastor, the community
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pastor, the singles pastor, the marriage pastor, the parking lot pastor, you know, kind of just
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slap any title with the word pastor following and it's now a thing. And it's, yeah, it's almost
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become like a hired job instead of being a divinely appointed call. Yeah, I think that's a really
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important distinction that you're making here um about it because we've totally done that we've
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just adopted all these titles and just kind of slapped them on oh yeah here you take up this
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position if you if you meet the the qualifications of being an employed person you can come and be
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this pastor um you know the role that we have called pastor the bible actually calls elder or
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overseer that's that's what we see in scripture uh we see that word way more obviously than the
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word pastor the word pastor comes up once elder and bishop or overseer shepherd these words are
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more frequently used basically the the word because the word pastor which again just means
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shepherd is simply a description of what the elder does you cannot be a pastor without being an elder
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and i'm going to say that one more time because i want you to catch this okay because the word pastor
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is simply a description of what the elder does,
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And you can't be an elder without being a pastor.
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Okay, you know, the idea of a pastor who is not an elder
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It's kind of like an impossible thing to happen, okay?
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that you're trying to mature into a pastoral office eventually
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Meaning that, like, say you're a young man and you go, man, this guy's got a pastor's heart.
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He's trying to meet the qualifications of becoming a pastor at some point.
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He could be nurturing and growing that pastoral gifting.
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But if you're going to wear the title of pastor and you're actually going to shepherd a flock of God's people,
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then you better meet the qualifications for pastor, for shepherd, for overseer that are found in the Bible.
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So Veronica is going to read first Timothy chapter three,
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This is one of the spots in scripture that gives very clear instructions.
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he desires a good work and overseer then must be blameless.
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sober-minded of good behavior hospitable able to teach not given to wine not violent not greedy
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for money but gentle not quarrelsome not covetous one who rules his own house well having his
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children in submission with all reverence for if a man does not know how to rule his own house
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how will he take care of the church of god not a novice less being puffed up with pride he fall
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into the same condemnation as the devil. Moreover, he must have a good testimony among those who are
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outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. And one thing I want to talk about
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here is if this is true for the leaders of the church, then it's definitely true for each and
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every one of us. And so it's really easy to kind of isolate these qualifications or these character
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traits into their own kind of category as if like only those people need to be that way um but god
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doesn't have double standards that's not that's not the case he doesn't say to the elders hey you
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guys be super holy and righteous everybody else just has to be holy and righteous no these are
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the expectations uh for god's people um from the top down in terms of maturity and uh you know
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Sure, for the church quality, these are things that everybody should desire, and they are things that are required of the elders and also the deacons, which we're not talking about today.
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I think it's an important conversation to have is that these aren't just for them.
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So I want to read you guys these qualifications briefly.
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and i want you to evaluate your pastor against these biblical qualifications and if he meets
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them praise god you're at a blessed uh church and and that's a great thing um we had a pastor
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who met these qualifications for several years we are now in a shepherd's role meaning that
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we look at these qualifications regularly to make sure that we are staying within these
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qualifications um and so uh let's start with the first qualification i'm gonna go just really quick
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on that note not just us we look at them but our the people on our fellowship as well look at them
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we're not the ones making the call yeah we don't that we're qualified yeah we don't self-qualify
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we our congregation is the one who evaluates just like we're asking you to do evaluate if we are in
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that office because they can see these things be true of our life just want to bring clarity to
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that yeah so uh number one qualification is the pastor is a man the overseer is a male office
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and uh it's not it's not of a woman it's not a woman's office i didn't write it so you don't get
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to get mad at me um but that is what the scriptures teach so i'm just going to leave it at that but it
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is a position for men. Second point is, he says, they're blameless. Now, I want to talk about that
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for a second. Blameless doesn't mean faultless. It doesn't mean that they haven't fallen, that
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they don't make mistakes, that they don't have error. But the difference is that they don't
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have a reputation of evil or a pattern of evil or a pattern of habitual sin. They're not known
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for those things they're they're above reproach i think that they they're even proactive in
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protecting themselves in those areas yes they're they're really trying to walk a holy and righteous
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life because they are the example for the flock as they follow christ um husband of one wife
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the elder is a one woman man and i know you might be thinking in terms of polygamy uh you know this
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could have, this is definitely an issue of the time. How many wives does Christ have? Well,
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he only has one and it's the church. And so we are to model that. And does this disqualify the man
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who has been divorced? Some believe so. I don't have an opinion on that because the Bible doesn't
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specifically speak to that, but it does say that you're the husband of one wife. And I think that's
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a really important distinction. Moving on to number four, temperate. It means that you're not
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an angry person. Number five, sober-minded. It means that you're a man who's centered on biblical
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truth. You're firm. You're steady. You're not easily swayed. You really believe what you believe,
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and you're not being um obsessed with some of these kind of fluke theological ideas or
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you know i i've heard all the the i always write references the flat earth folks in the church i'm
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like dude i don't care if the earth's flat jesus is here he came he died uh he rose again he sat
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in the right hand of the father i don't care if the earth's flat or round or square um i'm not
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going it doesn't matter um and and so you kind of get set aside with all these like weird things
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you're not sober minded when those kind of things happen just focus on the scriptures the facts the
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call um good behavior that's pretty self-explanatory it's number six number seven is hospitable i'm
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gonna say that they prefer company like they're they love people and they want to spend time with
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people and what's the definition of hospitality showing others their worth showing their value
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yeah they're worth yeah that was good showing others their worth about you're hospitable you
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like showing people their value number eight is able to teach they have the gift of teaching i
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would say to an extent because in titus it talks about the elder's task is to correct and exhort
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and rebuke those who contradict the Word of God.
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So I'm talking, you've got to not just be like,
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and rebuking those who contradict the Word of God.
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I think it means you're definitely not a drunkard
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I think that's what the passage is translated in some other versions too
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do you have a glass of wine on your anniversary with your wife
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you're not given to wine, you're not desiring for it
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And so with the Instagram account, Preachers and Sneakers, which we talk about in that other episode, where you have these pastors wearing $4,000 jackets and $2,000 pairs of shoes, this should absolutely raise some red flags in your heart and go, whoa, that doesn't line up right.
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You know, follow me as I follow Jesus in my $2,000 pair of shoes.
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And so they're not serving the church for monetary gain or being immodest with their wealth.
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It means that they're compassionate, they're patient, they're caring.
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I like a friend of mine just interpreted this, I think, in a really helpful way.
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they don't ever let discussions turn into arguments they refuse to argue they refuse
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they just don't do it because an argument is striving like in the flesh like i'm gonna win
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this thing and it's not about the holy spirit doing the work and so they're not arguing they're
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not quarrelsome covetous uh is number 14 he's content with where the lord has him you don't
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see someone that's constantly on the gain you know and and i know we can there's nothing wrong
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with achieving and growing and moving forward, but just this constant need to perform and looking
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at other people's things and wanting other people's lives. So I'll leave it at that. Number
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15, rules his own household well. And so I would say this is a household, isn't just your wife and
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children. I believe it's your property. I believe it's your finances. Is everything in order there
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so that you can be the example to your flock in all things,
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not just in family, but whatever the Lord has given you.
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If it's a small apartment, that thing is taken care of.
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You care for the things that the Lord has entrusted to you.
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You know, have you been able to be trusted with God's money?
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I could have extended that a little beyond what the text says,
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Number 16, they have children and their children are obedient and in submission to this elder because if you can't even run your own household and have your own children into submission to you, how can you run the house of God?
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That's what it says in the passage. And I think that this is interesting because it clarifies that these children need to be old enough.
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one is not child and then it's children and and they need to be old enough in which you can
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determine wow that that's that child is in submission to their father and i'd say that
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happens somewhere between four and up you can start to see really if a child is in submission
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and obviously really see it at 10 12 13 14 um this doesn't mean perfect children this means
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obedient children. And so I want to, because, you know, pastor's got a lot going on and it's
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really easy to be critical of the pastor. So obedient, loving, ordered children, not perfect
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children. And number 17 is not a novice. Man, you shouldn't be new to the faith and walking in a
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leadership position. You shouldn't be new to the Bible's theology and walking in a leadership
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position. You need to be able to understand, again, the word well enough that you can defend it
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that you can present it and understand the mechanics of the gospel quite well
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and explain it to other people that you could bring them along the journey.
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And I want you to, again, think, does my pastor meet those qualifications?
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Yeah, so after going through those 17 qualifications,
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well, you know, I think my pastor meets these qualifications.
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But another point that I did want to make that really shifted in my journey was recognizing the difference between a biblical pastor who feeds and guides and protects, protects the church and the evangelist who simply teaches basic gospel messages each week in hopes to convert people to Christ.
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Yeah. So you got like point A is you have this person is the pastor, the shepherd.
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and then point b is this evangelist they're they're biblically important roles both oh absolutely
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but they're different yeah so just because your pastor might meet the qualifications of an elder
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it still doesn't necessarily mean that they are truly pastoring um many churches today are led
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by evangelists um who are who tend to be just more focused on the visitors than they are to
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the committed people in their flock and that's kind of how the church that you were saved in
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right? I mean, it was a visitor-centric church, right? And again, there's nothing wrong with that
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and intrinsically wrong with that. But I think it's a really important point because, you know,
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sure, every pastor needs to be concerned with the gospel. We need to be making sure that we
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present the gospel. I would say you should be able to present the gospel in every sermon that you
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preach. But again, you know, the gathering of the church and the evangelistic outreach of the church
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are two separate endeavors and we need to realize that and and sadly i think the evangelist has kind
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of taken the spotlight and that's why we have a pretty young in their journey immature church
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we're living on milk because the lost the people that are new to the faith they need milk their
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babies babies need milk to survive the problem is that an adult surviving on milk will die
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and that's why if you're there for 10 years but you're still every sunday as an evangelistic
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message over and over again, you're not being fed and led by a shepherd. You're just watching
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evangelism occur again, and you're understanding the elementary parts of the gospel over and over
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and over again. So just because you have a qualified evangelist that meets an elder's
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qualifications, that's still not a pastor. And those are different ministries. Pastoral ministry
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even says that. There are some apostles, some prophets, some teachers, some pastors, and some
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evangelists they're two different roles in Ephesians 4 that you that you hear about that
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so I want to just that's an important distinction that you made there so I'm going to close by
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asking the obvious question which is what do you do if you're at a church and your pastor doesn't
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meet these qualifications or that your church really is a outreach for evangelism every week
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And it's not a gathering of the saints to the edifying of the believers for the work of their ministry.
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And I'm going to say that you have two options.
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One, if you're at a church, you're close to the leadership, I would say have a conversation and compare the scripture against what you see that's not lining up in their life.
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I would do that gently in love, according to Matthew 18.
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And then if that's not an option for you, I would say sit before the Lord and pray that the Lord places you in another local church and consider going on a journey to look for another gathering.
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And again, we have a great podcast on that titled The Seven Criteria of a Biblical Church, which you can use to evaluate really what should I be looking for when I'm looking for a biblical church.
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so hopefully this was helpful for you guys and we really care about people being inside of a church
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that is biblical that's what we're here that's our ministry at relearnchurch.org
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if you guys would do one favor for me I forgot to mention this at the beginning of the episode
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if you guys are a regular listener to the show would you guys consider just leaving a quick
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review on iTunes you don't even need to write anything you could just tap the stars those
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reviews really do help the exposure of the show if you do write something I read them every day