00:00:51.980In addition, James Coates was denied bail
00:00:53.860and is expected to remain in prison for at least several more months
00:00:57.360until his trial. As many Christians are aware, in most places in the West, restaurants and bars are
00:01:02.700open, big box stores are open, and they're shuffling in thousands of people per day.
00:01:06.960Airlines are open, separating us by six feet during our boarding, only to stuff our flights
00:01:11.500elbow to elbow just a few minutes later. But the church, in a time of immense cultural pain and
00:01:16.400emotional suffering, has the harshest of limitations placed upon it. The men who are
00:01:21.100committed to counseling and encouraging, visiting the sick, performing marriages and funerals,
00:01:25.060preaching the truth in a world of lies, and offering hope are not permitted to continue
00:01:29.660pursuing their ministry. This, as many of you know, is just a glimpse of what we can expect
00:01:35.020to come in the years ahead of us. Comfortable Christianity is no longer, and it's being0.91
00:01:39.740replaced with costly Christianity. In fact, it's my belief that the imprisonment of Dr. James Coates
00:01:44.720will go down in church history as the spark that ignites the coming era of political persecution
00:01:49.440here in the West. In this special edition, I interviewed James Coates' wife, Erin Coates,
00:01:53.860to discuss the reality of her husband's arrest. But before we dive into this interview, I just
00:01:58.380want to briefly remind you that next week we begin the first episode of a series of five episodes of
00:02:03.700our Theologian series, followed up by our top seven episodes over the past three years. I will
00:02:09.420be back with all new episodes of Real Christianity toward the end of April. On that note, let's dive
00:02:14.920into my conversation with Mrs. Erin Coates. It's a huge weight to carry. I keep saying,
00:02:23.260you know, I'm a homeschooling mom and a homemaker. I teach our women's ministry,
00:02:28.240but I live a pretty quiet life. So this has been a lot for me to really try to vindicate
00:02:36.220my husband's name and free him from jail. And it's a difficult task to have to keep
00:02:43.240pushing forward. Yeah. And how's the family hanging together? I mean, I know this is just
00:02:49.780have to be a difficult time in terms of your rhythm and, you know, your rock in terms of
00:02:55.520your husband as your leader of your home. And how has that been? Yeah, it's a huge loss for our
00:03:00.680children. Um, they, they have their moments for sure. My oldest is the one that's taking it the
00:03:06.600hardest. And I think it's because he actually has a more fuller picture of what's happening.
00:03:11.800Um, and my youngest just, he misses his dad. And, uh, so yeah, you're exactly right. The rhythm of
00:03:19.080our house is is knocked off james is a very um boisterous man and he loves to he has these antics
00:03:26.040and uh we always say when he's gone it's just so quiet in the house because he's always laughing
00:03:31.560or making these sounds and singing and um so even just the the daily things you just miss those
00:03:38.300things and the kids are missing that and uh but you know what i think they understand the bigger
00:03:44.840picture. They understand that God is at work. And I mean, they've sat under their dad's ministry
00:03:51.120for 11 years and he's trained them well for just what it means to live your life as a believer.
00:04:00.320So they're not surprised, I guess. A little bit of shock at first, but they're okay. They're
00:04:08.200hanging in there. Amen. Amen. Well, just tell us a little bit about your husband's ministry.
00:04:14.840your ministry as a family. How long ago was the church planted? How many members are at the church?
00:04:20.500What city is the church located? Just give us some background information.
00:04:23.980Sure. Well, in 2010, we had a committee come down to the Master's Seminary looking for a Canadian
00:04:29.980pastor, and they weren't really sure they were going to find one, and they found one. And so
00:04:36.700my husband called me and was like, honey, there's this church in Edmonton, and they want to know
00:04:41.500if we're interested. And so I got online and I looked at their website and I just thought,
00:04:46.080what is this little light shining in Edmonton? It was a church that was planted by just a dear
00:04:52.800man in 2005. And so they brought us on because he was a little bit older, having some health
00:05:01.040problems. And so we started our ministry in 2010. And James has been the lead teaching pastor there.
00:05:11.500Since then, and and we I don't know how many members we have. Members and attendees are a little bit different, but we have before kind of COVID hit or after COVID hit, we probably have around 400 people.
00:05:28.360Now, this Sunday was an exception. I think we had about 700 people that heard that we were open and they were just, you know, hurting and didn't know we were open and needed fellowship.
00:05:40.820And there were some unbelievers there. But normally we have about 380, 400, I would say.
00:05:47.900Okay. Yeah. And you guys are in cold Canada, up north there, and not too far from us here in
00:05:57.480Oregon. The connection point here is that I'm a student at the Master's Seminary, and I understand
00:06:04.380not only just the theological training and education that was required of James, but also
00:06:12.260who he's been trained by. And these are some of the greatest men in ministry alive today. I know
00:06:18.160he was in the doctoral program under Dr. Stephen Lawson, who is a friend of ours here at the Real
00:06:26.540Christianity Podcast. And so there's so many ways to mar a character of a man, but I just want to
00:06:36.980let everybody know that any man who can graduate from the Master's Seminary has an incredible
00:06:41.280deal of character. It's a very difficult school. And, you know, just tell us a little bit about
00:06:47.640your husband, Aaron, in terms of who he is, his mission, his heart for the local church.
00:06:54.200What's his passion? His passion is expository preaching and building up the local church so
00:06:59.980that we can successfully accomplish the great commission and making sure that our church is
00:07:05.900the pillar in support of truth and that he is going to stand before the Lord and give an account
00:07:11.300for all the lives entrusted to him. But his job is to build them up into the mature man. So he is
00:07:17.200really like a teaching pastor and is very serious about proper exegesis and exposition. And when I
00:07:25.400think about men like Pastor John MacArthur and Dr. Steve Lawson, those are the men who have really
00:07:30.760impacted him the most. He's his own preacher, but I would say you can see the effects of those two
00:07:39.600men very strong in his life, not only his preaching ministry, but in his character as he's really
00:07:46.520sought to follow them as they follow Christ. So, I mean, James is my best friend. I think he's the
00:07:55.040best man in the world. And he's not a perfect man by any stretch of the imagination, but he is
00:08:02.700so gracious and so kind and so patient with a fiery wife and really has been, I think, the person who
00:08:11.880has impacted my life the most. I mean, I've been sitting under his ministry for 11 years, so I get
00:08:16.860to see him preach the word week in and week out, but I get to see him live the word at home. And so
00:08:23.300he has just greatly impacted me, uh, behind the scenes and has loved me well. So the fact that
00:08:30.300he's sitting in a prison right now is very emotional. Yeah. It's so, it's amazing that
00:08:37.220we're letting some people go that are, you know, uh, producing sexual crimes and drug crimes and
00:08:43.360then arresting the moral pillars of society today. Um, I love your, your Instagram profile,
00:08:50.400Erin, which if you're not following Erin, she's giving a great update on what's going on with
00:08:55.240her husband and obviously the legal side and debate of this whole ordeal. But in your bio,
00:09:02.800you say, married to my pastor. I love that in terms of he's not just your husband, but he's
00:09:09.560also your pastor. And I can just greatly respect that and the unity that you two have in your
00:09:17.300ministry there in Edmonton. Can you tell us a little bit about the current restrictions
00:09:22.500that have been placed on the local church in your area across Canada? And just give us some
00:09:32.160insight there before we talk about specifically what happened.
00:09:35.100Sure. We've had two health emergencies in Alberta with two extreme lockdowns. We're in the second
00:09:41.480lockdown right now. As cases or active cases started to rise around the end of November,
00:09:47.540we went into that second emergency state. So we've always had restrictions on the gathering.
00:09:53.860Now, when they ended the first lockdown, our premier, Kenny, said that he was not
00:09:58.200going to be hitting churches in regards to compliance. He's always been really big about
00:10:04.220conscience and worshiping freely. According to whatever religion you are, he's really
00:10:10.540been big on conscience. So somewhere in the summer, he changed and was singing a different
00:10:16.060tune. So, but we've always had restrictions on the gathering, but this time, this restriction
00:10:21.620has been since the beginning of December and it's mandatory masks, mandatory social distancing,
00:10:29.760no singing. Our worship team can sing, but they have to sing with a mask on. Our premier had said,
00:10:36.540You know, you can sing in the shower like I do at home on a faith leader's call.
00:10:42.380And you're not allowed to converse with anyone outside of your home.
00:10:48.380And so as soon as service is done, you have to leave the building.
00:10:52.720And then you're not allowed to have anybody in your home either.
00:10:56.700We can't break up into house churches because you're not allowed to have anybody in your home that's not of your immediate family.
00:11:02.320um and I think that's all all the restrictions so pretty much the restrictions are in place oh
00:11:08.980sorry 15 capacity that's pretty massive which is about one fifth one sixth of our church um so
00:11:15.840that's a large portion of the church not coming to the gathering and they actually said you know
00:11:22.460you can sit in your car and live stream as long as you don't get out of your car uh but we prefer
00:11:27.420that you live stream at home. And so people have been saying, you know, why don't you have six or
00:11:32.880seven services? And that's fine if your goal is just to dispense a sermon. But that's not what
00:11:41.080our church is about. We are very strong on the one another's and building one another up and
00:11:45.840being able to be in each other's lives. And I really honestly think it comes down to just the
00:11:51.080the theology of preaching and what happens in the moment of preaching and what happens after the
00:11:58.560moment of preaching and how are we going to encourage one another to go out into the world
00:12:02.820that week to live for Christ and to be faithful with the Great Commission. So all of that has
00:12:10.300been taken away from us. And so when you think about just our government putting the restrictions
00:12:14.800on, they just think church is somewhere that you go and you do this thing and then it's over.
00:12:21.560It's about yourself and God, but it's not.
00:12:24.780It's about serving the body faithfully with the gifts that you have been given to build up the body of Christ into a mature man.
00:12:31.120And so we have been very, very limited in doing that, even in the week, because you're not supposed to see each other.
00:12:38.780Yeah, we basically dug our own grave, in a sense, in terms of we spent so many years, decades,0.55
00:12:46.080training the church to be a consumer, audience, spectator Christianity, where there is no0.67
00:12:52.240engagement, there is no involvement, that we've trained a Christian population to believe that
00:12:57.280it's the exact same thing to watch it from home as it is to watch it in person.
00:13:02.740And the reality is, is that's not true. You can do a lot of things over the internet. You can do
00:13:07.500a great business meeting, you could play some video games, but you can't have a marriage over
00:13:12.060the internet, you can't raise a child over the internet, and you can't do church over the
00:13:15.880internet. And we need to be together. There's over 100 one another's in the New Testament,
00:13:22.480and these are bearing one another's burdens and so fulfilling the law of Christ, right?
00:13:26.280Praying for one another and confessing your sins to one another that you may be healed,
00:13:30.540loving one another fervently. These are very hands-on, interdependent passages of scripture.
00:13:37.140When we look at the biblical church and the COVID regulations, it is impossible to do those things. When you look at the American or Canadian institutionalized church that has become spectator Christianity, I can understand why these people are arguing, oh, just do it from the internet.
00:13:58.100Well, they're not experiencing this true, biblical, connected, intimate, deeply accountable, loving, relationship-heavy, contributor Christianity.
00:18:38.220I'm dealing with parenting now that these kids are home and not in school.
00:18:43.240I'm dealing with so many different issues as a pastor that the last person that you
00:18:49.100want to put in a situation to not help is a pastor because they're dealing with so many
00:18:54.820people and supporting so many people in this time of just so much change and difficulty
00:19:02.400and sorrow and pain. And so, yeah, we hear you there, Aaron. It's such a complex issue.
00:19:09.140And I think a lot of people around the world are starting to see that the current strategy
00:19:13.340has not been working. And again, we all know that at some point the culture is going to be
00:19:21.740turning towards Christianity. A lot of us didn't know when, was it this soon? How was it going to
00:19:27.700happen. Um, but if you look through church history, this is not something that should shock us. Um,
00:19:33.400in terms of, uh, give us the story about what happened to James. Um, did he, did he know that
00:19:40.720the police were coming for him to arrest him? Um, what, you know, what were the warnings? What was
00:19:45.580his resolve to continue on? Um, give us the background there. Sure. Um, so when the first
00:19:53.000lockdown happened, our people had a very hard time with that. I always say that it was like
00:19:59.560they went into mourning when you separate a church like ours. And we paused because
00:20:06.020we didn't know what was happening. And the information that's coming in on mainstream
00:20:10.960media is terrifying. And so I think our men rightfully paused to figure out what is this?
00:20:18.480How are we going to handle this? And so after the two months of the first, I think it was about two months of the first lockdown, and we had information coming in from trusted resources, people that we know, and also watching some trusted news media outlets and and then reading different documentations, actually looking at the numbers, because I think people will hear stuff, but then not actually go and research it.
00:20:46.260And then we're also looking at the effects of our people.
00:20:49.240And so our elders really had to wrestle, what's our response to this?
00:35:05.100I think the greatest need is for the church to wake up.
00:35:09.740And I'm receiving a lot of messages from people who are saying, like, I didn't know I was sleeping and this has woken me up.
00:35:16.380What's happening is COVID has really sought to lull the church to sleep and to, you know, even people, for them to say that live streaming is a viable option for the church is so sad to me because they just really don't know.
00:35:39.600They just don't really have a high view of the gathering.
00:35:42.020They don't have a high view of preaching.
00:35:43.500they don't have a high view of what actually happens to an individual when they're isolated
00:35:49.400from the body and what the enemy can do with that. And so I think the thing is when churches
00:35:54.840fall asleep, they don't actually know they're sleeping. When they're lukewarm, they don't know
00:35:59.160they've turned tepid. And so really just praying that churches would consider their sheep. I'm
00:36:08.040again receiving so many messages from people that are so lonely uh they're really struggling their
00:36:13.880pastors haven't reached out to talk to them or see how they're doing um they are they're struggling
00:36:20.440with depression i'm getting the same message all the time aaron i wish my pastor would take
00:36:25.880a stand for us i wish my pastor would open the doors and that's really that's really really
00:36:32.520sad and i think that's why we had a flood of people come to grace life on sunday is because
00:36:36.840they're, they're walking wounded and they need help. Um, and so that's the biggest thing is just
00:36:44.100pray that the eyes of the church, the true church would be open to, um, take a stand because I
00:36:52.160really believe that, um, you know, now that we know more about COVID and how, how it's working
00:36:58.840that the government is just hiding behind this to, um, see how far, especially churches will go.
00:38:18.340We've been having lackadaisical, costless Christianity for so long that this is just, yeah, we're just not aware of what's actually happening here.
00:38:27.080And I think, again, it's a slow fade.0.60
00:38:29.160The enemy is a patient incrementalist.
00:38:31.320And we're seeing that slowly and slowly evolve until we go, you know, a lot of pastors out there thinking it's just going to return to how it once was.
00:38:41.320And I have to remind them, it's never going to return how it once was.
00:38:57.600And this is something that I think you're dead on in terms of Aaron,
00:39:01.500just that we need to wake up, especially the pastors and leaders,
00:39:05.280to boldness, to pushing back, to buying as much time as we possibly can
00:39:09.060to be a witness for Christ, standing true for the gospel and the Great Commission.
00:39:13.560And so thank you so much, Aaron, for just taking the time to talk with us.
00:39:18.580I think this has been an edifying experience.
00:39:20.320For those who don't know this story, you guys can go to Aaron's Instagram account.
00:39:24.860Aaron, tell us where we can follow you, where we can maybe even follow the information coming
00:39:29.640from your church. Is there any way that we can stay in touch? Absolutely. So I'm at Aaron Coates
00:39:34.88080 on Instagram. Our website is gracelife.ca. And once you go to our website, what pops up
00:39:42.860is our statement of why we've chosen the direction that we've gone with the lockdown measures.
00:39:50.100And then I would say we have a YouTube channel. I would say go and listen to my husband's December 20th. It's time to stand sermon and his most recent one on February 14th on instructing the government.
00:40:04.100I think we're a generation that just doesn't know a good theology of the position of government or even has a good ecclesiology.
00:40:25.180and I'm thinking going to worship the triune God as he deserves as the local expression0.99
00:40:32.220of a blood-bought body is selfish this is the world we live in and this is Christians saying0.97
00:40:39.060this um and so we just have a poor ecclesiology and I just think you know Dale when I read I read0.98
00:40:46.560The American Puritans by Nate Pickawicks and what it cost them to have to worship freely when they went to America and many of them lost their lives.
00:40:59.520It was just so striking to me what they were willing to do for the purity and freedom of worshiping the triune God.
00:41:07.940And so I just feel like if we don't stand and fight, all of the work that those men did is gone.
00:41:15.600It's in vain. And so I want to be able to continue that work to just hopefully help people see and direct them to sound men who are preaching the truth and have that sound ecclesiology and fight for Christ's bride because it's really serious.
00:41:34.560Amen. Amen, sister. Thank you so much for joining us today and sharing this story. If you guys are a regular listener to the Real Christianity podcast, you guys can leave a review. You can tap the stars on your podcast app. You don't need to write anything, but if you do, I will read it. You can also follow us at relearnhq on Instagram or myself at Dale Partridge on Twitter. Thank you for joining us on this episode. My name is Dale Partridge, and we'll see you guys next week.
00:42:00.460thank you for listening to this episode of real christianity if you're a regular listener to this
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