Dale Partridge - Real Christianity #146： Salaried or Bi-Vocational Pastors？

00:00:00.000 Welcome to this episode of Real Christianity. My name is Dale Partridge, where each week

00:00:13.120 I offer 15-20 minute answers to tough theological and pastoral questions. This is a 100% listener

00:00:20.600 supported audio ministry of relearn.org. And for those who don't know, our mission

00:00:26.400 at relearn.org is to educate and equip ordinary Christians to plant biblical, confessional,

00:00:32.680 and missional house churches. For more information, just visit relearn.org forward slash house.

00:00:41.600 Welcome to Real Christianity. I'm your host, Dale Partridge. If you're new here, welcome. I have 0.71

00:00:47.180 just returned from a 10-week sabbatical, and I'm ready to reinvest into both of our ministries,

00:00:54.580 relearn.org, and our house church planting school at reformationseminary.com. As many of you know,

00:01:02.480 you can find the show notes for these episodes on our ministries website at relearn.org.

00:01:08.000 Now, I was hoping to launch the new format for our show here this week, but we've decided to

00:01:15.180 film and record some more episodes in advance before we make them public,

00:01:20.280 pushing back our launch date. That said, I am excited for you to be a part of what we're going

00:01:26.700 to do here on the Real Christianity podcast. And I'll give you a little hint. I'm going to be

00:01:31.860 sharing and showing several disciplines, tools, and resources for you to faithfully study your

00:01:40.700 own Bible. And I expect these episodes are going to come out mid-summer. But our hope

00:01:48.640 at our ministry, and my hope for you is that you know how not to just hear people preach and

00:01:55.820 believe what other people have told you about the Bible, but that you will learn to go into

00:02:03.240 the scriptures and extract the truth properly, and extract the truth within context, within

00:02:11.100 historical, cultural view, within theological and doctrinal parameters. We want you to learn

00:02:18.300 how to do that. And we're going to create a new format for the show that'll help you do that,

00:02:22.020 as well as hearing some of my preaching and my exposition process for preparing sermons and for,

00:02:31.080 you know, coming up with these Bible teachings that I do for you every week.

00:02:36.040 As for today, I just wanted to simply answer a question that was submitted by a young lady. She

00:02:43.520 asks, should a pastor's sole occupation be ministry? That is, should his entire income

00:02:52.820 come from the church and its members? Or should pastors be bivocational, working a secular job

00:03:01.040 and serving the church in addition? I think this is a really good question. And the Bible doesn't

00:03:07.840 give an exact answer on this topic, but it does give some really great principles. I'm going to

00:03:13.640 open up with something that John Piper said when he was talking about in a video about salaries and

00:03:21.320 pastors and what this should look like. And he made a good quote. He said, churches should not

00:03:25.760 try to keep their pastors poor and should not want to make them rich. In other words, one principle

00:03:33.540 at the top of this whole thing is that churches need to really look at creating a sustainable,

00:03:40.960 faithful, biblical way of looking at finances for pastoral leadership, for other people that

00:03:49.800 are serving the church. In other words, you don't want to force a pastor who is serving

00:03:55.220 in an eldership role, in a preaching role, you know, and he's serving you weekend and week out

00:04:03.980 and studying and preparing and counseling and offering his services, and then force him to

00:04:10.620 also pick up the night shift so that he can pay his bills and feed his family. We'll talk about

00:04:16.140 some scripture that represents that concept as well. You know, a lot of people say, hey, you know,

00:04:23.720 Paul. Paul was bivocational, right? He was out there tent making, and he was out there

00:04:32.620 earning everything that he possibly could on his own so that he didn't want to be a burden to any

00:04:39.320 of the churches that he planted. A couple of things I want to say to that. One is that Paul

00:04:43.640 is an apostle, and Paul also is a missionary. He's not a pastor. He never calls himself a pastor.

00:04:52.360 never calls himself an elder. He calls himself an evangelist. He calls himself an apostle. He

00:04:57.140 calls himself a teacher, but he doesn't call himself an elder of a church. And so the scriptures

00:05:02.480 that are talking about pastors being paid are scriptures that Paul writes as instructions to

00:05:13.440 local churches on how they should operate the principles of compensating those elders that

00:05:21.200 have been appointed to leadership, preaching, pulpit ministry in the church. And so I want to

00:05:32.920 have this discussion just first in the context of the local church. Again, I'm all about pastors

00:05:37.200 being paid for their spiritual labor. And actually, let me go back just for a second,

00:05:44.620 because I want to make a point before I say this. Paul wasn't bivocational. Paul was,

00:05:51.160 as Piper would say, he was one vocational. Essentially, he was not taking hardly any money,

00:05:59.740 if any money, arguably, from the local churches. He would receive some gifts that came, but he was

00:06:07.520 not expecting any money to come from the local church. And he worked very diligently. We'll read

00:06:14.820 a few scriptures that talk about that, that to make sure that he wasn't a burden and wasn't

00:06:20.960 taking anything, he was earning his own way completely and fully. He was one vocational

00:06:26.380 and in terms of the way he was making his money, and then he was serving and laboring. He also

00:06:31.260 wasn't married. He also didn't have any children. So he could work as a tent maker and as a

00:06:37.660 missionary at the same time without compromising anyone except himself and his own needs. And the

00:06:44.880 Lord would take care of him in those principles. So again, Paul's example is a bit different

00:06:51.440 than his instructions for local pastors. So I think that's an important contextual element to

00:06:59.240 look at. And again, now, in context in the local church, I'm all about pastors being paid for their

00:07:04.800 spiritual labor by those, again, who directly benefit from their spiritual work. You know,

00:07:10.100 studying, writing, preaching, counseling, serving, these are all costly, like time-expensive

00:07:14.500 activities, and a pastor needs to be compensated. And I do have some concerns about

00:07:24.740 salaried pastors where you have fixed incomes. I think that a church should be ready and eager

00:07:34.200 to give to the pastor and supporting the ministry of the church. And that income might be not fixed,

00:07:45.760 but variable. And as the church gives, the pastor can be compensated a reasonable wage

00:07:53.840 for the geographic economic climate that he lives in. And for example, you know, I think that

00:08:02.160 you know, a pastor, a good process for evaluating this should be maybe that

00:08:08.880 a pastor should make an hourly rate that's comparable to any other average profession

00:08:13.620 in their congregation, in their local area.

00:08:17.300 So if an electrician is making 60 bucks an hour,

00:08:21.380 the pastor shouldn't be making less

00:08:23.080 when he serves the church at an hourly rate

00:08:25.780 and serves the congregations.

00:08:28.060 If you're going to pay the guy to come

00:08:30.060 and install your dishwasher,

00:08:32.520 but you're not willing to pay the guy

00:08:34.080 that's going to come and do marriage counseling,

00:08:35.920 there's something wrong there at that process.

00:08:39.000 Because to say that you'd pay those people,

00:08:41.960 but not the pastor is basically to imply that electrical work or dishwasher installation

00:08:46.100 is more important than spiritual work, which we all know is not the case.

00:08:50.880 So those are just a couple of things that I'm thinking about.

00:08:55.560 The problem with salaried pastors is that you end up becoming, I guess, trusting less

00:09:08.060 on the Lord to provide each month and forces the pastor sometimes to trust more in the institution.

00:09:15.820 Again, it's not a sinful thing. I just think it's something that we need to be careful about.

00:09:20.880 Another thing is that salaried pastors, you know, there's an Upton Sinclair quote that I'm going to

00:09:27.260 kind of twist and use in a different perspective, but it goes something like this. My version is,

00:09:33.900 it's difficult for a pastor to preach something when his salary depends on him not preaching it.

00:09:41.720 And so when there's tough things to say, but you don't want to say them because you might offend

00:09:46.680 the people who are paying your salary, you get into a little bit of a conundrum where Paul had

00:09:53.520 that freedom. Well, if you are bivocational, by conviction, you have that freedom, again,

00:09:58.920 to be a little bit more bold and not have that fear. I think every pastor should be willing

00:10:04.540 and bold to say the truth regardless of the circumstances. But the truth is it often happens

00:10:10.480 where pastors aren't speaking the truth because they don't want to offend the person in the church

00:10:15.180 who is paying a big chunk of their salary. And that's a real issue that many pastors struggle

00:10:25.900 with. And so just let's look at some scripture that supports paying the pastor. And then let's

00:10:34.180 look at Paul's example, and then I'll kind of wrap it up with just some thoughts. But, you know,

00:10:38.060 1 Timothy 5, 17 through 18, it says, let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of

00:10:43.460 double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. So especially those

00:10:47.600 who are laboring there. And he uses, he grounds his argument in an Old Testament scripture. He

00:10:52.880 He says, for the scripture says, quote, you shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.

00:10:58.420 And, quote, the laborer deserves his wages, or the laborer is worthy of his wages.

00:11:03.120 The idea of muzzling an ox is that you prevent the ox from eating while it's working.

00:11:11.420 And the Bible says, don't do that.

00:11:13.960 And Paul asked the question, is God concerned with the ox right now?

00:11:17.980 No, he's talking about the pastor, right?

00:11:21.420 He's talking about the man who, you know, and so I just go, we don't want to ever stunt the work of the pastor by not contributing to the needs of his home while we're completely willing to contribute to the needs of all the other professions that we subscribe to and partake of.

00:11:51.260 And the second thing he says is the laborer is worthy of his wages.

00:11:53.980 So I believe that if you're laboring, spiritually laboring in prayer and study, you have a

00:11:59.900 appointed position in the church, or you're a missionary, or you're a Bible teacher in

00:12:03.980 your weekly sacrificing time, I believe that it's worthy of wages.

00:12:09.880 Now, does it mean that you demand it?

00:12:11.580 No, I don't think that's the case.

00:12:12.980 But you do have a right, according to scripture, to receive.

00:12:20.680 And I would say that those who are receiving without contributing to the needs of these

00:12:27.340 individuals in these roles are actually robbing the kingdom of God.

00:12:33.140 Now, there are some instances where they are, again, maybe ignorant to that or too young

00:12:38.380 in their faith to understand the concept, but the majority of us will gladly receive

00:12:44.100 and not return support.

00:12:50.880 And we do this all the time.

00:12:53.060 We do this at churches.

00:12:54.880 We do this with the ministries that we listen to on the internet.

00:12:58.440 We do this with what I try to do as even a pastor myself,

00:13:03.540 as I try to, I contribute to desiring God

00:13:07.560 and I contribute to HeartCry Ministries with Paul Washer.

00:13:12.160 Not major amounts, but I partake of their content, and I'm encouraged by their ministries, and I want to support what they're doing.

00:13:22.820 And I think it's important as Christians that we do so with our local church first, but then secondly, with these supplemental ministries that we listen to throughout the week or that we support, read their books or consume their content.

00:13:38.440 or just want to support their missionary work or their Bible teaching work that's going on in the

00:13:46.200 world. Galatians 6.6 says, one who is taught the word must share all good things with the one who

00:13:53.380 teaches. This is another passage, 1 Corinthians 9, 9 through 14. Paul says, again, for it is written

00:14:02.180 in the law of Moses, you shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain. He asked the question,

00:14:08.440 he says, is it for oxen that God is concerned? Does he not speak entirely for our sake?

00:14:16.140 This is a rhetorical question. It was written for our sake, he says, because the plowman should

00:14:22.100 plow in hope and the thresher should thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. If we have sown

00:14:27.600 spiritual things, Paul says, among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?

00:14:33.160 If others share this rightful claim onto you, like the electrician or like the dishwasher installer, do we not even the more?

00:14:42.320 Nevertheless, Paul says, we, him and his group, have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than to put an obstacle in the way of the gospel.

00:14:52.480 So he chose to not endure that, to take on that right to receive income or compensation

00:14:58.520 because he didn't want them to think for any reason that he was planting the church for

00:15:04.980 or preaching the gospel for monetary gain.

00:15:08.480 But his example is different than the instruction that he gives in scripture.

00:15:14.580 And so, you know, I'll give you a couple more scriptures and then we'll close it out here.

00:15:18.700 1 Thessalonians 3, 7 through 10, Paul says,

00:15:22.480 for you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us

00:15:25.000 because we were not idle when we were with you,

00:15:28.960 nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it.

00:15:31.440 Paul's saying, hey, we should work as Christians.

00:15:33.400 This isn't to pastors.

00:15:35.400 This isn't to contradict himself.

00:15:37.260 He says, but with toil and labor,

00:15:38.500 we worked night and day

00:15:39.840 that we might not be a burden to any of you.

00:15:43.480 This is a verse that's about Christian ability to work.

00:15:48.140 He ends this, he says,

00:15:49.340 it is not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate,

00:15:56.660 for even when we were with you, we would give you this command. If anyone is not willing to work,

00:16:03.960 let him not eat. So this isn't a command telling pastors that they need to work another job too.

00:16:09.900 This is saying, don't be lazy. If you're a lazy person, you're not going to eat.

00:16:15.660 Even Paul was offering that example.

00:16:18.920 And so, but now Paul does receive, you know, he's received some gifts from the Philippians.

00:16:24.280 He received, you know, some gifts, a love offering.

00:16:28.000 We don't know exactly what it is, but some support in some capacity.

00:16:32.720 Basically, you know, we just need to be looking at this as missionaries are often,

00:16:40.280 can, you know, maybe offer the bivocational opportunity a little bit more.

00:16:44.000 pastors of bigger churches. I think it's more difficult to be bivocational. I think I'm a

00:16:50.660 house church pastor and planter, and I am bivocational. So relearn.org is my laboring

00:16:57.900 ministry. We also have a rental property that my wife and I manage. And so we have some other

00:17:07.080 income that comes on there. And we produce podcasts and courses and sell books and some

00:17:14.080 of those things that are there. But to our local church, our local church, which is a handful of

00:17:19.880 families, like less than 10 families, they do support us in some capacity. And it's individualized

00:17:26.740 and we do make a small income from our local church. But we are bivocational. And I think

00:17:34.320 house church pastors in general will find themselves having to be bivocational because

00:17:41.040 a church with only 10 to 15 families might not be able to support fully one to two elders

00:17:47.960 in a church at a full-time capacity, depending on where you live.

00:17:53.520 But I think that's fine because a house church with only 10 to 12 families is not

00:17:57.820 50, 60 hours of work. You can really do your preaching and studying and meet the needs of

00:18:03.240 church that's that small, usually within 15 to 30 hours a week. And so I think it works itself out

00:18:09.760 in that capacity there. But again, I don't want to project and present a certain rule that pastors

00:18:16.020 should all be bivocational or that they should be one vocational. I think these principles are just

00:18:21.580 important, and we do need to be careful on how much we do offer pastors as salaries. Again, I think

00:18:30.460 that if a pastor should be able to look in the congregation and find out what the median

00:18:34.300 income of a congregation and live a life that is essentially modest and comparable to the average

00:18:45.080 member in their church. And so what you might have in Mexico is going to be very different

00:18:53.640 than what you have in New York City and very different from what you're going to have in

00:18:57.900 a small town in Ohio. And so I think we just need to have principles that guide us there.

00:19:03.780 And again, I'm a big fan of a bivocational house church planting and pastoring ministry,

00:19:09.460 but in the traditional church, I don't think that works out as effectively.

00:19:14.380 I think missionaries offer missionary work and missionary life offer a great opportunity for

00:19:20.540 bivocational ministry too. I think it's great to have that opportunity to serve and refuse,

00:19:26.900 or not refuse, I should say, is that not take on the right to be paid as a way to show the genuine,

00:19:40.420 I guess, what's the word I'm looking for? The sincerity of your motivation. It's not motivated

00:19:48.240 to get money from somebody. It's motivated to get the gospel out. And if asking for payment

00:19:54.720 in some capacity or even teaching on money would imply that you have an interest in being paid

00:20:04.320 more than you have in the gospel being preached, then I think it's worthy to say,

00:20:12.520 I don't want the money. It's not about the money. It's about the gospel.

00:20:16.400 So hopefully those are some good general principles in answering that question for you.

00:20:23.040 uh we're going to close up this show today and excited we're going to have a couple episodes

00:20:27.920 in between that are just going to be short little shows as we get prepared for this new

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00:20:51.020 interested in planting a biblical house church, go ahead and check out our ministry at

00:20:55.900 reformationseminary.com. We are always enrolling for the next class and next group of men who are

00:21:01.900 going to be planting those churches. On that note, guys, thank you so much. Thank you for

00:21:08.060 listening to Real Christianity. My name is Dale Partridge, and we'll see you next week.

00:21:13.680 Thank you for listening to this episode of Real Christianity. If you're a regular listener to

00:21:18.340 this show would you prayerfully consider making a donation to support our ministry efforts

00:21:22.340 simply visit relearn.org forward slash donate again that's relearn.org forward slash donate

00:21:29.080 and for those looking to explore the idea of joining or planting a church in your home

00:21:33.220 you can download our free pdf ebook titled the basics of biblical house church by visiting

00:21:38.340 relearn.org forward slash house lastly do you have a theological question you would like answered

00:21:43.880 on the show, submit your question at relearn.org forward slash question. Thanks for joining us on

00:21:49.680 this episode of Real Christianity. We will see you next Wednesday.

Dale Partridge - May 12, 2021

Real Christianity #146： Salaried or Bi-Vocational Pastors？

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