Dale Partridge - February 20, 2019


Real Christianity #33： Should Christian Women Wear A Head Covering While Praying or Prophesying？


Episode Stats


Length

50 minutes

Words per minute

171.12357

Word count

8,560

Sentence count

369

Harmful content

Misogyny

26

sentences flagged

Hate speech

43

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 welcome to real Christianity today we are talking about should Christian women wear
00:00:10.440 a head covering while praying or prophesying not a controversial conversation at all so
00:00:17.040 this is a I guess that's why our podcast is called real Christianity we're talking about
00:00:22.200 real topics in the church yeah and topics that we get asked this question a lot what
00:00:28.740 about head coverings? What about head coverings? And it's not that head coverings are necessarily
00:00:34.060 a giant deal in terms of the theological nature of the scriptures, but it is a root issue in terms
00:00:43.560 of people are looking at something that is said in scripture and for some reason the church isn't
00:00:49.100 talking about it. And we get these questions a lot. What does it mean? Should we follow it? Should
00:00:54.300 we cover our head what does veronica do um and so we're going to tackle that today so get ready
00:01:00.540 and it's going to be a maybe a little bit longer of a show um a couple things before we get started
00:01:07.980 i want to do a quick review last week we did a show about how ordinary christians can share
00:01:14.740 the extraordinary gospel and we talked about how we've outsourced our responsibility of sharing
00:01:19.280 the gospel to our pastor, and how many, only less than 5% of Christians share the gospel
00:01:25.740 with one person per year.
00:01:27.780 Just so happens that Barna came out with a study on February 5th.
00:01:32.200 So this is like a week and a half ago.
00:01:35.060 And what a fascinating study, but I'm going to read you something from it.
00:01:40.300 They wrote an article titled, almost half of practicing Christian millennials say evangelism
00:01:47.020 is wrong.
00:01:47.820 That is a real deal issue.
00:01:52.040 And I'm going to read something that I wrote down from the notes.
00:01:55.700 Among practicing Christians, these are practicing Christians.
00:01:59.260 People go to church.
00:02:01.320 47% of millennial Christians believe it is wrong to share one's personal beliefs with someone of a different faith
00:02:10.540 and hope that they will one day share in the Christian faith.
00:02:14.760 47% believe it's wrong to share your faith.
00:02:18.500 Oh my goodness, this is insane.
00:02:20.280 It's insane.
00:02:21.740 This is exactly what happens when pastors don't teach about building the kingdom of God
00:02:25.640 and instead teach about building the kingdom of self.
00:02:28.800 This is what's going on.
00:02:30.520 You guys can research that.
00:02:32.000 Look at it yourself.
00:02:33.800 Barna study just came out.
00:02:36.360 we are in a place where literally half of the millennial christians think that it's wrong
00:02:42.540 to follow the great commission so fits right in i wish i found it last week
00:02:48.240 a couple things uh before we dive into today's topic we are a podcast that's available on youtube
00:02:55.620 so you can watch us on youtube you could also watch it or listen to it on itunes
00:02:58.960 spotify google play stitcher wherever podcasts are and you guys are one of the big things that
00:03:06.060 really helps the show is reviews. And if you guys would be willing just to tap the stars in the
00:03:12.180 iTunes app, that's it. I mean, if you write a review, they're so encouraging to us, but just
00:03:17.040 tap the stars. That's a review for us. It's super simple, takes a few seconds, and it really does
00:03:22.700 help the exposure of the show. So we're going to be reading on head coverings. It's a pretty
00:03:29.940 critical passage of scripture in terms of just the theological statement that it makes. And it's
00:03:35.980 first corinthians chapter 11 verses 2 through 16 so this is a bit of scripture that veronica is
00:03:41.840 going to read and you guys know me i just love reading on camera the microphone in front of my
00:03:46.900 face so she's going to read this and then i'm going to teach through it she's going to give
00:03:50.660 her thoughts i'm going to give my thoughts and we're gonna land the plane on the tarmac if that's
00:03:58.040 a thing on the biblical tarmac on the biblical tarmac all right uh first corinthians 11 starting
00:04:04.220 in verse 2 going through to 16. Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and
00:04:10.800 maintain the traditions even as I deliver them to you. But I want you to understand that the head
00:04:16.340 of every man is Christ. The head of a wife is her husband and the head of Christ is God. Every man 0.64
00:04:21.520 who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. But every wife who prays or 0.99
00:04:27.040 prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head since it is the same as if her head were 0.98
00:04:32.680 shaven for if a wife will not cover her head then she should cut her hair short but since it is 0.90
00:04:38.460 disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head let her cover her head for a man 0.98
00:04:44.060 ought not to cover his head since he is the image and glory of God but woman is the glory of man 1.00
00:04:50.700 for man was not made from woman but woman from man neither was man created for woman but woman 0.53
00:04:57.340 for man that is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head because of the angels
00:05:02.300 nevertheless in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman for as woman was made from
00:05:10.700 man so man is now born of woman and all things are from God judge for yourselves is it proper
00:05:17.960 for a wife to pray to God with her head uncovered does not nature itself teach you that if a man 0.59
00:05:23.260 wears long hair it is a disgrace for him but if a woman has long hair it is her glory for her hair
00:05:29.940 is given to her for a covering if anyone is inclined to be contentious we have no such practice
00:05:36.180 nor do the churches of god okay one crushed it i practiced it a few times
00:05:43.400 so um this is a big passage of scripture i'm we're going to break it down for you so
00:05:49.440 don't get overwhelmed if you're just like wow that was a chunk of theology so a couple things
00:05:55.120 we'll start off and babe just feel free to jump in on any time if you have any points to add
00:05:59.420 um even to the current day do you ever see men like christian men praying with their hat on
00:06:07.280 or prophesying with their hat on like that's just a weird thing i feel like men always just as a
00:06:13.240 sign of respect take their hat off yeah every now and then you'll see it but for the most part i
00:06:16.840 think like it's just like even a culture it's turned into a cultural thing where like if you're
00:06:20.780 at a baseball game and they're praying and they're about to do the national anthem people take their
00:06:24.420 hat off yeah nascar does the prayer before the race like they take their hat off um rodeos do
00:06:29.420 that rodeos do that if you're going to the farmer in the field by himself praying over his lunch is
00:06:36.160 going to take his hat off to pray it's just a common thing that you see with the men so this
00:06:40.880 this doctrine is to the men and the women it just so happens that the men have no issue with it in
00:06:50.360 terms of the cultural issue to take their hats off. The Marines do it. The whole army does it.
00:06:54.660 If you walk into a building, you're taking your hat off when you're, you know, because it's the
00:06:59.040 mess hall to pray. And so there's just, it has been erased for the ladies though. And so this
00:07:06.080 doctrine has just been disappeared for the women. And so throughout church history, women covered 0.88
00:07:13.080 their head when they prayed or prophesied. It's just a fact. So just get that in your head real 0.99
00:07:19.520 quick that throughout history there's actually several videos i found on youtube documenting
00:07:25.580 the head covering historicity and it is it shows like statues from like you know pre-christ
00:07:36.760 this is like jewish women um all the way to uh paintings art drawings up until like
00:07:45.840 early photography of, you know, mid-1800s, and it's hundreds and hundreds of examples
00:07:53.960 of any Christian art or artifact or archaeological finding that has some sort of picture of a woman
00:08:03.020 on it. Her head is covered. And so it's just a fact that this is a historical church doctrine,
00:08:10.460 And something has changed for literally 2,000 years of church doctrine, church cultural doctrine, to what's happening today.
00:08:22.300 So in the 18th century, it's known as the Enlightenment era, women switched from veils or traditional head coverings to bonnets.
00:08:33.840 This is like, you know, our Little House on the Prairie era, which we love.
00:08:39.400 And then they actually switched from bonnets to ornate hats.
00:08:43.020 We saw this if you look just back into like the late 1800s up to the early 1900s.
00:08:48.820 They're wearing ornate hats. 0.99
00:08:50.320 And that went all the way actually into the 40s and 50s of women wearing hats. 1.00
00:08:55.760 The moral reason for head coverings was lost and traded for like kind of a fashion statement. 0.99
00:09:02.640 And so women were still wearing hats because it was cultural,
00:09:04.940 but the moral reason is kind of being removed in that process. 0.96
00:09:08.800 And then once hats kind of went out of fashion for women,
00:09:12.440 the head covering was gone and the moral reason had totally been forgotten.
00:09:17.340 And so this also had, interestingly, the trend,
00:09:21.400 the shift from head coverings to no head coverings 0.89
00:09:24.220 also happened at the very beginning of the feminist movement, 0.96
00:09:27.460 the birth of the feminist movement,
00:09:28.800 which is led off by Maury Wollstonecraft in the late 1800s.
00:09:33.540 And so there's a connection for sure between the feminist movement and the lack of head coverings, the cultural perspective in culture and in the church.
00:09:42.160 Deep stuff here, but I'm just giving you guys the front, I guess, the top line information.
00:09:47.700 Now, a lot of you guys who listen to this podcast totally respect and value the teaching of people like Martin Luther, John Calvin, Charles Spurgeon, John Gill, Matthew Henry, William Tyndale, who pretty much translated for the first time the Bible into English.
00:10:07.460 lived in the Lutheran era, Watchman Nee, Augustine, Tertullian, Thomas Aquinas, R.C. Sproul,
00:10:17.120 just as a more modern name. A lot of you guys respect those theologians. Well, every single
00:10:23.700 one of those theologians teach that a woman should wear a head covering when she's praying or
00:10:29.780 prophesying. And all of those men, their wives wore a head covering while they were praying or
00:10:36.740 prophesying. And so I've just given you guys just history. Facts are stubborn things. And you get to
00:10:43.880 look at that as you go, man, I respect all those guys. Calvin, John Calvin, Martin Luther,
00:10:49.920 you know. So just think about that. Yeah. So after studying this passage myself,
00:10:57.440 I do cover my head when I pray or prophesy. I do get that question a lot. That's what I do.
00:11:05.060 And just to be clear and let you guys know,
00:11:08.120 Dale did not tell me that I needed to cover my head.
00:11:10.780 I came to this conclusion on my own.
00:11:13.500 However, Dale, after studying it himself, did come to the same conclusion.
00:11:18.340 Yeah, a few years ago.
00:11:19.420 Yeah, so we are unified in our decision.
00:11:22.740 But something that prompted me in kind of this journey to figuring out
00:11:27.640 if I should cover my head or not or just studying the passage
00:11:29.780 was that I noticed my mentor covered her head when she prayed and she had never said anything
00:11:35.580 to me about it you know just you know went about her way just what she did and so I remember one
00:11:40.980 time I actually asked her about it and she shared with me first Corinthians 11 and then I dug into
00:11:47.040 the passage myself and that's when I came to the conclusion but she never pressured me into doing
00:11:52.640 it either um so now we know that this is a really difficult passage of scripture for the modern
00:12:00.620 church but it never was in the historical church like you said yeah all the examples that you just
00:12:06.080 gave yeah um jewish jewish women before christ wore head coverings christian women throughout
00:12:12.400 history all wore head coverings even today um if you as a woman were to go meet with the queen
00:12:18.980 queen elizabeth of england yeah she would require you to wear to have something on your head yeah
00:12:26.060 if you actually look at all yeah when you look at all the pictures of other women in the palace
00:12:30.000 she she requests and when i say requests it probably means a demand if it's coming from
00:12:35.760 the queen that the woman wear a head covering so i think the beauty that uh people miss is that
00:12:44.420 before this was written, it was expected that Jewish women wear a head covering at all times,
00:12:50.960 at all times that she was in public. But Paul actually reduces this practice
00:12:55.720 to only when a woman is praying or prophesying. Yeah. So we're not saying that you got to go 0.55
00:13:00.380 wear a head covering everywhere you go as a Christian woman. That's not what the text says.
00:13:03.880 Right. Yeah. And at first, my biggest fear when coming to that conclusion was like, oh,
00:13:09.520 oh, I'm probably going to look kind of funny and I'm going to look different.
00:13:13.360 But then I realized that it's actually a powerful visual sign and testimony to other women
00:13:23.780 that I was submitted to God's word and to my husband.
00:13:27.540 And I wanted to honor you and I want to honor God and I want to be obedient.
00:13:31.340 And so for me, I was like, okay, well, I don't care if I look funny.
00:13:34.140 I'll just do it.
00:13:34.840 um so now we don't i want you guys to know that we don't force this doctrine on anyone
00:13:42.660 um there are several ladies in our home church who don't wear head coverings and we don't we
00:13:49.020 don't command them we don't say anything to them about it um but when we read the text and we read
00:13:53.940 first corinthians and see what it says uh this is what we believe the apostle is sharing is instructing
00:14:00.320 us to do and again we'll break this down of how we've read it i don't think a lot of people have
00:14:05.280 read it with such intentionality and i've studied this i've actually gave a sermon on this before
00:14:12.160 i've studied it several times um i don't want to say that i've gone as deep as you can go on it but
00:14:20.080 i've gone pretty deep and i actually feel that i've put together a pretty strong convicting
00:14:25.640 argument for head coverings, not because of what I think, but because when you analyze the text
00:14:35.460 and you break it down, it's really difficult to believe otherwise. But again, there's still
00:14:41.340 many women and many pastors who have come to different conclusions. And I think it comes
00:14:48.360 down to that statement that Lisa made. Why don't you share about that? Is that she, you know,
00:14:51.840 she'd rather yeah um a comment that my mentor had made she just said you know she goes I'd rather
00:14:58.480 you know when I die and I go to heaven I'd rather God say thank you for being obedient to what the
00:15:04.500 word says thank you for for listening rather than hey Lisa I really meant that why didn't you do it
00:15:10.220 yeah I wrote that down it was so clear why didn't you do that what was in your heart that was
00:15:15.000 preventing you from doing that and and again so but again I think there's actually a really
00:15:19.140 strong argument that we can present to you, not trying to convince you to do this, but just so
00:15:25.740 that you understand the text and you get to seek the Lord on this year in your own life. And again,
00:15:31.000 I'm not, I'm not not talking to the men, men, you need to not cover your head, um, not have your
00:15:37.200 head, not have your head covered when you're praying and prophesying. That's what the text
00:15:40.800 teaches. And so we'll explain why soon. And so this isn't just to the women, but it just happens
00:15:47.100 to be a bigger issue for the women right which is telling in a very feminist culture so um we're 0.93
00:15:54.680 going to go verse by verse so let's start with uh two through three now i commend you because you
00:16:01.920 remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as i deliver them to you but i
00:16:06.940 want you to understand that the head of every man is christ the head of a wife is her husband and
00:16:12.180 the head of Christ is God. So a few things here. Yeah, so one, Paul is commending them
00:16:22.220 for keeping the traditions, for maintaining the traditions just as he delivered them.
00:16:28.900 So it's likely that he's talked about this topic before and a variety of other things in his
00:16:33.760 letter. I have a question. Do we keep and believe any other of Paul's writings about traditions?
00:16:41.840 Like, do we do the Lord's Supper? Yeah. Do we follow his instruction on church discipline?
00:16:48.080 In 1 Corinthians chapter 5? Yeah. Do we talk about or keep as a church how he instructs
00:16:55.600 we should appoint elders in 1 Timothy chapter 3 and Titus 1? Yeah. Do we believe that our bodies
00:17:01.900 of the temple of the holy spirit because paul told us that yeah and so it's interesting why we
00:17:07.360 take all of the other pauline doctrines uh but not the ones that are unpopular to the culture
00:17:17.160 or uncomfortable or difficult to understand and so we can't do the cherry picking
00:17:25.240 thing i'm going to take a little bit of this a little bit of that but i don't like that over
00:17:29.700 there because it makes sense to me. Are we actually yielded to the scriptures or not?
00:17:34.580 Or are we going to just get to determine which ones we want to be obedient to and which ones
00:17:38.160 aren't true and which ones are what will explain away through cultural context that was just
00:17:43.640 written to the Corinthians, but the rest of the Corinthian letter isn't. 1 Corinthians 13, that's
00:17:47.660 all the love stuff. And I love that. But this section is just, we can't do that. We got to be
00:17:53.020 really careful. And I have studied this letter. I would say if there's any book in the Bible that I
00:17:57.400 know more than than any part of scripture it's first corinthians i've studied this book extensively
00:18:03.560 and i don't believe that's the case with this passage of scripture um this is important
00:18:08.380 what he's saying here but i want you to understand that the head of every man is christ
00:18:15.060 the head of a wife is her husband and the head of christ is god this is important because he just
00:18:24.940 gave this derived authority structure. He's saying that ultimately God and below that the head of 0.92
00:18:34.360 Christ is God. The head of man is Christ. The head of woman is man. It's this order of authority or
00:18:41.660 order of headship. God, Christ, man, woman. And it's important because Paul's about to give us
00:18:47.620 a physical church practice to represent this spiritual truth. That's what he's doing here.
00:18:55.660 He's given us a physical church practice to represent verse 3. But I want you to understand
00:19:01.020 that the head of every man is Christ, that the head of every wife is her husband, and the head
00:19:04.840 of Christ is God. This is, again, this idea that all authority comes from God the Father.
00:19:11.100 It comes down through Christ. It comes through man to woman in terms of authority and headship,
00:19:16.520 not value not hierarchy even but authority and so let's go through verses four and five so we'll
00:19:26.200 try to get through just some of the stuff pretty quick every man who prays or prophesies with his
00:19:31.500 head covered dishonors his head but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered
00:19:36.240 dishonors her head okay when you read this text you got to go every man who prays or prophesies
00:19:42.660 with his head covered, his physical head covered, dishonors his head. Who's his head?
00:19:51.240 Oh, yeah, I'm talking to you. I'm talking to the other woman in the room. I'm kidding. So who's 0.54
00:19:55.860 his head? Man? Yeah. Jesus. Jesus. So the idea is that every man who prays or prophesies with
00:20:02.780 his head covered dishonors his head. Christ. Christ. Every wife who prays or prophesies
00:20:10.060 with her head uncovered dishonors her head, which is her husband. So it's not talking about 0.97
00:20:16.720 dishonoring your own head. It's dishonoring your husband or Christ. And so that's one point I want
00:20:25.480 to make. The second point I want to make is every man who prays or prophesies. So it's talking about
00:20:31.960 praying and prophesying. Those are the two spiritual activities in which your head should
00:20:35.500 be uncovered now or covered as a woman or covered as a woman and so when you 0.59
00:20:41.980 pray you take your hat off as a man and if you're prophesying now prophesying
00:20:47.440 the way I defined it and I think that I think many theologians define it as a
00:20:52.420 Holy Spirit prompted revelation of truth that aligns with Scripture and so you
00:21:00.880 might have a prophetic moment in the midst of a sermon
00:21:05.500 Um, you may have a prophetic moment, just a direct prophetic moment.
00:21:11.240 That's different too.
00:21:12.740 I think they are different than teaching.
00:21:16.120 Um, it doesn't say every man who prays or teaches with his head covered dishonors his head.
00:21:23.660 Um, teaching I think is different.
00:21:25.780 It also in first Corinthians chapter 14, verse 26 will distinguish the difference between teaching and prophesying.
00:21:31.580 We also see in the five-fold ministry that some are apostles, some are prophets, some are evangelists, some are teachers, and some are pastors.
00:21:40.380 And so those are different there as well.
00:21:42.520 So I do think that it's different.
00:21:44.660 So the activities we're talking about specifically are praying and prophesying. 0.60
00:21:50.420 And every wife, every wife, not every woman, every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, her husband.
00:22:04.480 And so I do, this also is a quick clarification point, is that this is talking to married women.
00:22:10.640 There is an argument that this could be talking to all women, but it is for sure talking about married women.
00:22:16.580 and so that's at least my section for breaking that down yeah um i don't cover my head if i'm
00:22:24.000 not praying or prophesying i don't walk around with the head covering all the time only when i'm
00:22:28.320 doing those actions yes um but some denominations will say yeah but aren't we supposed to be praying
00:22:33.840 without seizing that's um the most common argument you'll hear um but and this is why the mennonites
00:22:40.940 or the Amish always have their heads covered. 0.98
00:22:43.340 Yes. 0.85
00:22:44.480 But the truth is we're not always praying.
00:22:47.180 When you're talking on the phone, you're not praying.
00:22:49.760 When you're sleeping, you're not praying.
00:22:53.200 When you're watching TV or singing a song or reading, we're not praying.
00:22:57.520 Yeah.
00:22:58.600 So usually I will have a head covering with me at all times.
00:23:04.480 I try to at least.
00:23:06.060 And if for some reason I forgot it or misplaced it,
00:23:08.980 i'll just cover my head with my hand yeah yeah veronica does that all the time we'll be you know 0.86
00:23:14.100 for a dinner out to dinner she forgot it we pray for our food she'll just literally cover her head
00:23:19.540 with her hand while we pray yeah and i wouldn't say that's like that's not what the bible tells
00:23:24.800 us to do it asks us to use a head covering an external covering but we're not like crazy about
00:23:29.660 it yeah and again i don't think the lord is either it's just it's a heart it's a heart posture yeah
00:23:34.820 it's not a gosh we're so unified we are so unified look at us um and uh so let's read verses
00:23:41.660 six to six through ten why don't you read that okay for a wife for if a wife will not cover her 0.95
00:23:47.420 head then she should cut her hair short but since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair 1.00
00:23:52.860 or shave her head let her cover her head for a man ought not to cover his head since he is the 1.00
00:23:58.060 image and glory of god but woman is the glory of man for man was not made from woman but woman from 0.68
00:24:04.580 man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. That is why a wife ought to have a symbol
00:24:11.180 of authority on her head because of the angels. Okay. So guys, you know, there could be a whole 0.98
00:24:17.360 book written on this chapter of scripture or the section of scripture. So I'm just going to give
00:24:22.220 you the top line. You get to go look at it on your own with your husband, um, with your, you know,
00:24:27.720 uh, with your spouse together. Just look at that. First thing I want to say about this passage here
00:24:33.300 is it says in verse six,
00:24:35.660 for if a wife will not cover her head, 0.84
00:24:37.720 then she should cut her hair short. 0.99
00:24:40.940 So first thing, it's clear
00:24:42.100 that the hair is not the covering. 0.97
00:24:44.760 If the hair was the covering for a woman,
00:24:46.800 why would he say, 0.99
00:24:48.440 for if a wife will not cover her head,
00:24:50.460 that she should cut her hair short?
00:24:51.660 That just like makes no sense to say that.
00:24:54.420 There's an argument that in the church that,
00:24:56.580 oh, that the hair is the covering.
00:24:58.460 And we'll talk about that later in the episode
00:25:01.060 about why that is illogical to think that.
00:25:05.820 So that's the first point I want to make on that text.
00:25:08.660 Verse 7, where it says,
00:25:09.720 For a man ought not to cover his head. 0.75
00:25:14.780 Why?
00:25:15.520 It says,
00:25:16.080 Since he is the image and glory of God, 1.00
00:25:18.800 but woman is the glory of man.
00:25:22.320 So the text appears to imply
00:25:25.400 that there's some sort of spiritual activity,
00:25:29.680 like praying or prophesying,
00:25:31.060 It reveals some form of spiritual omission.
00:25:34.780 I don't know another way to explain that.
00:25:36.940 That's kind of the best way I've thought of it.
00:25:39.900 There's a lot of mystery still here in this text.
00:25:45.460 And that spiritual omission displays God's glory.
00:25:48.600 And that is visible not just to others in the physical world,
00:25:52.640 but also to the angelic realm.
00:25:55.340 And this is a really important point that we'll talk about
00:25:58.520 on the angelic realm. As a man, covering our heads will somehow, while we're praying and
00:26:06.760 prophesying, somehow prevent God's glory from being seen from physical creatures and the angelic
00:26:17.760 realm. And so spiritual activity, and we'll talk more about the angelic realm in a second,
00:26:22.620 but spiritual activity displays some form of spiritual radiance. I think of it kind of like
00:26:28.380 a lamp and a lampshade um it's just you think of a light bulb and you you know you have a lampshade
00:26:35.100 on it and it blocks some of the light and you take the lampshade off and it lets all the light
00:26:39.140 light out interesting um and and so woman is the glory of man is what it says in in in verse eight
00:26:49.640 here from um or verse seven woman is the glory of man what what that's meaning is that she's the
00:26:55.620 more beautiful iteration of mankind, of humankind. Women are just more beautiful. Men are just
00:27:03.300 blocky, you know, and women are slender and beautiful and have curves. And that's, I think
00:27:08.520 what he's saying here is that woman is the glory of humanity. And that's also why men are so
00:27:15.440 attracted to women. That's also why God said, this is very good. This is very good. Very good.
00:27:20.520 after he made the woman yeah this is good this is very good and um so verse 8 when he says here
00:27:28.240 for man was not made from woman but woman from man that is is him talking about creation order
00:27:39.480 and that's an important point that he's making in this passage here not value but order
00:27:45.420 equal value, different role. Okay. Adam was created first and then Eve. And also Adam wasn't
00:27:54.120 created for Eve, but Eve was created for Adam. And again, it's implied leadership or headship
00:28:02.500 and order, not value. But that's what this passage is teaching. This is why it says,
00:28:09.040 this is why the wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head. Why? What just said. 0.97
00:28:15.960 Because of creation order. And so ultimately it's saying, wives, like Eve, you were created for your
00:28:24.460 husband. Your husband wasn't created for you. That's an interesting kind of provocative statement. 0.97
00:28:30.440 But I think that's what Paul's saying. You were created to be his helper. That's what the
00:28:36.600 scriptures teach, because of that spiritual distinction in your roles or position, you
00:28:44.040 should wear a physical symbol to present that spiritual reality to others when you pray or
00:28:53.020 prophesy. That's what I think it's saying. You are not a spiritual free agent. You don't get to go
00:29:01.340 just do spiritual activity without showing where as a wife without showing that you're under
00:29:07.640 authority and under the authority of your husband who's under the authority of Christ who's under
00:29:11.940 the authority of God and um yeah and you're just that's called derived authority that concept is
00:29:20.920 that you are under derived authority it's not you're not doing it for just your husband you're
00:29:25.760 doing it for the Lord. Now, this key statement, the whole reason at the end says, for the sake
00:29:33.240 of the angels. And you're just like, what does that mean? What does that mean? For the sake of
00:29:38.400 the angels. Well, I've heard several really good interpretations of this passage from people all
00:29:45.000 the way back to the 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, 1700s. And when they all kind of come to the same conclusion
00:29:49.860 and they don't know each other and they're all respectable theologians, you go, you know what?
00:29:53.960 i think the holy spirit's revealing something here and this is my take on that is i think
00:29:59.680 the head covering as a symbol of authority is what it says it's kind of like a wedding ring
00:30:04.500 and what what does a wedding ring say to people you're taken you're taken you're you're unavailable
00:30:12.940 you're you're under covenant you're in a covenant with somebody you're committed to one another
00:30:19.900 It is a physical symbol to represent a spiritual reality.
00:30:26.660 Another thing that I was thinking of is just like when a bride wears a veil.
00:30:31.280 Exactly.
00:30:32.660 Yeah, I mean, it tells the world about your relational status. 0.79
00:30:36.300 And I think a head uncovered as a woman while praying, or I should say a head uncovered as a man, and a head covered as a woman while praying tells the angelic world, heavenly and fallen angels.
00:30:56.620 So there's a demonic realm, and they're all watching us right now.
00:31:02.520 It tells them something about our spiritual status.
00:31:07.020 So when a demon is watching you as a wife, but you cover your head while praying and prophesying,
00:31:15.200 it is evidence that you're under the authority of God. 0.95
00:31:20.620 And the same is true for a man.
00:31:22.740 And the same is true for the physical world. 1.00
00:31:26.680 Like when I see a woman covering her head, I go, oh man, she must be married. 1.00
00:31:31.520 She's under her husband's authority. 0.93
00:31:33.040 She's a respectful wife.
00:31:35.100 She's submitted and yielded to her husband and to the Lord. 1.00
00:31:39.060 Those are the things that I think when I see a woman who's got her head covered.
00:31:43.300 And we know that the angels are watching.
00:31:45.780 There's actually scripture in Timothy.
00:31:46.960 There's scripture in 1 Peter.
00:31:48.360 There's lots of scripture that shows that the angels are present in the assembly
00:31:53.300 and the angels are present in our everyday life.
00:31:56.340 They are watching what we are doing.
00:32:00.400 All right.
00:32:01.040 Oh, I think I forgot my one-liner here.
00:32:04.080 This right here?
00:32:04.740 Did I say this one?
00:32:06.240 Oh, I didn't say it yet.
00:32:07.420 The idea is that God wants his invisible spiritual structure visible to the physical world.
00:32:13.080 Did I say that already?
00:32:14.520 Maybe.
00:32:15.020 I think you kind of said it in parts, but maybe not altogether.
00:32:19.060 Maybe it wasn't as impactful as I thought it was going to be.
00:32:21.520 Sorry, maybe I just cut you off.
00:32:23.360 Anyway, moving on.
00:32:24.620 Verse 11, 11 through 16 right now.
00:32:27.640 nevertheless in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman for as woman was made
00:32:35.020 from man so man is now born of woman and all things are from God judge for yourselves is it
00:32:40.960 proper for a wife to pray to God with her head uncovered does not nature itself teach you that 0.83
00:32:46.400 if a man wears long hair it is just it is a disgrace for him but if a woman has long hair
00:32:52.100 it is her glory for her hair is given to her for a covering if anyone is inclined to be contentious
00:32:59.620 we have no such practice nor do the churches of god yeah so again we'll break this down a little
00:33:05.820 bit um we have some questions here at the end that we're going to answer that have to do with
00:33:09.360 this common questions about this so again he said nevertheless the lord woman is not independent of
00:33:16.920 man, nor man of woman in the Lord, is what it's saying. For as a woman was made from man, so man
00:33:25.160 is now born of woman. And Paul is saying, this isn't about hierarchy, people. If you're about
00:33:30.500 to get on your high horsemen, that's not what this is about. This is about creation order. This is
00:33:36.120 about headship and authority order. And while male and female have equal value, they do have
00:33:41.660 different positions, different positions in this hierarchy, or not this hierarchy, gosh, look at me
00:33:48.300 saying it, this order of God, Christ, man, woman, or husband, wife even. And so he does three
00:34:01.420 interesting things. One in verse 13, he says, judge for yourselves. And then verse 14, does not nature
00:34:06.360 itself. And then verse 16, if anyone inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice,
00:34:13.220 nor to the churches of God. He appeals to three different things to make his point.
00:34:18.220 He first appeals to their judgment, like, can you guys not judge this for yourself?
00:34:21.560 This is already common practice in the culture. Then he appeals to nature, talking about how
00:34:28.700 nature even is evidence of this, that women naturally have their hair as longer, and that
00:34:35.160 God even gave them a covering as their hair.
00:34:37.700 And again, we're going to talk about, well, if their hair's the covering,
00:34:40.760 why do they need to cover their head? 0.98
00:34:42.520 We'll break that down in a second.
00:34:44.980 And then he says, hey, if anyone is inclined to be contentious,
00:34:48.740 to disagree with what I just wrote is what Paul's saying.
00:34:53.300 We have no such practice, like no other practice,
00:34:57.220 nor do the churches of God, meaning the godly churches,
00:35:01.060 they don't have any other other way of doing this or seeing this doctrine so that's kind of
00:35:08.560 the quickest breakdown you can do of a passage like this but we've gone through it pretty quick
00:35:13.220 we are going to um to break down some questions and so uh maybe you ask the questions and i'll
00:35:20.780 answer them okay and i want your input if you have something to say okay does this teaching
00:35:27.520 still apply today so one way that i look at this about does the teaching still apply today because
00:35:32.980 you know we love to go oh this is just for the corinthian church yeah so one time ago one thing
00:35:38.660 is that at the very beginning of the corinthian letter you can open up your bible look in chapter
00:35:41.940 one and it tells you who the letter's written to and at the very end of the introduction it says
00:35:47.740 to it says to you know to those at corinth to those who are in christ jesus then it says
00:35:52.640 to those who are in every place and call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, both theirs and
00:35:59.200 ours. That is a statement that Paul knows that this letter is going to be transmitted across
00:36:07.340 the known world. And he's saying this is written to all who are in every place. Now, does he address
00:36:13.440 certain issues in the Corinthian church? Yeah, but they are in principle applicable to
00:36:18.780 the universal church meaning that this is universal doctrine for local application
00:36:24.400 it's interesting if we're going to go oh this is actually just the context of the corinthian church
00:36:28.180 and i go well the main doctrine on how you should do communion is in first corinthians chapter 11
00:36:32.960 are we going to just throw that out the window because it was just for the corinthians as well
00:36:36.040 the the main doctrine of our bodies being the temple the holy spirit are we going to throw that
00:36:40.980 out too and are we going to throw out first corinthians chapter 13 which is about love
00:36:45.020 Are we going to throw? No, we're not going to throw any of that stuff out. So why are we going to throw this out? Second point I want to make is, is man still made in God's image? Yes. Yes. Is woman still the glory of man? Yes. Yes. Has the creation order changed somehow? No. No. Have the angels changed somehow?
00:37:07.960 if the reasons for the teaching are still true then the teaching itself must still be true so
00:37:15.480 that's question number one question number two is the hair a covering or does it call for an
00:37:20.760 external covering this is probably the biggest rebuttal and again if you study this text people
00:37:31.460 you're going to see the context one it makes no sense of that statement that is said earlier
00:37:37.220 here um uh where's it at for if a wife will not cover her head then she should cut her hair short
00:37:43.840 so that's pretty obvious that yeah yeah other uh translation says shorn shorn yeah it's like 0.99
00:37:50.780 if if that was her hair if she already had a covering on then why would you cut her hair to
00:37:55.540 take it it just doesn't make any sense but i'm going to give you a better argument if the hairs 1.00
00:37:59.360 are covering we have two problems one why even write this text to the women about having their
00:38:06.880 head covered if if everyone has hair if everyone has hair it's like not like a common thing to be
00:38:11.800 talking to a corinthian culture with everybody his head shaved as a woman that's not what was
00:38:15.900 happening in corinth so why even write this if if it was the hair is a covering the second and i
00:38:23.040 think more compelling answer is if the hair is a covering then the men would need to shave their
00:38:28.620 heads every time they prayed and prophesied and that's not what it tells you to do yeah the hair
00:38:37.100 is not it's the argument is that even nature god gave you a covering as a woman because it's just
00:38:43.420 showing the idea that like you're adorned with your hair and a covered head as a woman is actually
00:38:49.660 like nature even says that and even says that it's a shame for a man to have long hair um 0.80
00:38:55.580 And that's why my hair is short.
00:38:57.420 No, I'm kidding.
00:38:58.240 But, and then the last thing is that church history does not support that interpretation.
00:39:05.640 So if you're going to go and say, I just disagree, you are disagreeing with 2,000 years of church history in the other direction.
00:39:14.660 So.
00:39:15.560 Question number three. 0.54
00:39:16.620 Should women always wear a veil just, or just when they're praying or prophesying? 1.00
00:39:22.700 Yeah. 1.00
00:39:23.360 You answer this one.
00:39:25.580 I mean, I don't wear a veil all the time.
00:39:28.680 I know several women who do.
00:39:30.920 I personally don't, only when I pray and prophesy.
00:39:33.460 The text just says that it's a practice for men and women, husbands and wives.
00:39:37.580 And again, it's hard to say husbands and wives because you go,
00:39:41.180 man, is a single man going to wear a hat when he's praying? 0.83
00:39:43.980 I don't think so.
00:39:46.220 But it's a practice for while you're praying or prophesying.
00:39:51.080 And this is something that Dale and I have come back to a lot, 1 Corinthians 11.
00:39:55.000 We're always going back and studying.
00:39:56.400 Anytime I'm like, am I doing this right?
00:39:58.460 So, like, I want to go back and research just because it is so abnormal to the culture today.
00:40:03.860 It is.
00:40:04.560 But that's still every time we come back to the same conclusion. 0.61
00:40:08.080 If we were living in 1880, go look at pictures from the 1800s of people in church and count how many women don't have their head covered. 0.60
00:40:16.100 And let me know. 0.74
00:40:16.940 Because I've looked. 1.00
00:40:17.940 And there's, it's just every, all the women's heads are covered. 0.99
00:40:20.880 It's just a thing. 1.00
00:40:24.100 Number four?
00:40:24.660 number four what if they're praying in silence should they wear one then
00:40:29.500 um again the text says that it's a symbol of authority for the sake of the angels we want
00:40:36.520 to remember that and because angels don't have access to our thoughts like god does they're not
00:40:43.180 omnipresent they have to be there they can't be in all places at once satan doesn't have that
00:40:47.940 ability to be omnipresent or omniscient um you know they can only know what we're doing based
00:40:54.900 off of what we're physically doing or physically saying the angelic realm um and so do you need
00:41:01.300 to cover your head while you're praying in your bed no because it doesn't really look like you're
00:41:05.800 praying your prayer looks like you're sleeping now but if you're in a prayer posture if you're
00:41:10.060 praying out loud if you're in a prayer meeting if someone else is praying and you're in like
00:41:15.720 joining in with prayer, um, then yeah, I would. Yeah. When I pray silently, I, I often still try
00:41:23.160 and cover my head. I mean, I don't do it every time. Like I'm laying down and I'm under my
00:41:26.480 blankets. Sometimes I'll cover my head with a blanket. Yeah. You know, but I don't think it
00:41:31.000 needs to be a worrisome like, Oh my gosh, I need to make sure my head's covered. Like, like, I
00:41:34.060 don't think the heart posture is what it is. Um, our, uh, our, uh, the guy that disciples us,
00:41:41.080 you know, he says, he's like, yeah, I don't think you're, if you're in the grocery aisle and you
00:41:44.840 you run into a friend who asked for some prayer that you need to grab a bag of frozen peas and
00:41:49.540 throw it onto your head or anything. And I don't think that's the case. I just think that this is
00:41:54.260 a heart posture and that's really the deeper, the deeper issue. Um, uh, I just imagined some
00:42:03.480 of the quotes he says are so funny. All right. Read the last question. Uh, is this for single
00:42:09.320 people or only married people um i'm i'm not going to say i i lean towards it being for married
00:42:17.880 people but it also doesn't make sense imagine a pastor who is single at a church preaching and
00:42:26.280 praying with his hat on stage that'd just be a weird thing so i i it makes more sense to me
00:42:32.120 for the men but um i actually we do know single women who cover their head um and so i think it's
00:42:40.700 just you get to go interpret that i think if you're a wife this this this doctrine is much
00:42:47.160 more clear and if you're a and we read this out of the esv by the way um just so you know that
00:42:54.300 translation it was harder for me to read because i'm used to reading new king james yeah i was
00:42:58.420 Like, this is worded differently than I'm used to.
00:43:00.000 New King James is a little bit more poetic.
00:43:01.380 But I like the ESV on this one.
00:43:02.840 It's a little bit clearer to say.
00:43:04.980 So, yeah.
00:43:06.700 So, at the core of everything that we just discussed and talked about, this whole topic, it's not about covering your head.
00:43:15.260 It's about God's order.
00:43:17.720 Not value, but order.
00:43:20.280 It's about just being okay with showing the world that you're under God's authority and your husband's authority.
00:43:26.900 Yeah. So if you're struggling with hearing this or you're feeling some conviction, whatever it is, with wearing a head covering, ask yourself why.
00:43:37.880 If it's because you don't believe what the text is saying to wear one, then that's one thing.
00:43:42.640 But if it's because it offends you or you don't want to look different or because you're afraid of what others are going to think.
00:43:51.120 Those are all things that crossed my mind, I remember, or because you don't think your husband's worthy of that level of respect.
00:43:56.900 I would encourage you to study the passage in depth and then take it to the Lord in prayer.
00:44:02.900 Yeah.
00:44:04.260 Yeah.
00:44:04.700 And even seek wise biblical counsel on it, too.
00:44:08.200 Yeah.
00:44:08.620 And the thing is, is that you're, you know, you're not going to find many people that have studied this passage much.
00:44:13.860 Yeah, that's true.
00:44:16.300 But you can use this as a tool to say, hey, listen to this podcast.
00:44:19.920 What do you think about this passage of scripture?
00:44:23.160 i really think it's about do you believe what the bible says and it's or are you always looking for
00:44:28.880 ways to explain away the instruction yeah and again the the fact that church history shows that
00:44:38.140 there was never really an issue with this up until the modern era that was in tandem with
00:44:43.500 the feminist movement there's actually a resurgence of head covering women um there's actually like
00:44:50.000 some websites like head covering movement or something something like that that um and there's
00:44:54.620 a variety of like actually really cool head wraps and companies that are coming out with more and
00:44:59.580 more like head covering and it's so funny to me i think about this i go one if you're offended by
00:45:04.600 this it's so interesting to me that i go we have very giant popular culturally popular media outlets
00:45:13.380 that are fighting for muslim women to wear their hijabs at work and so like it's like this thing
00:45:20.080 where you're you'll fight for that because that's somehow a part of the feminist thing that women
00:45:25.220 get to do but then when we hear this message it's offensive because i don't actually the woman in 0.82
00:45:30.820 the islam culture wear a head covering for the same reason it's actually the muslim women look
00:45:38.180 at Christian women and they wonder why they don't cover their head. And so there's, you know, the 0.91
00:45:44.940 Islam religion, you know, which came out about 500 AD, so this is 500 years after Christianity,
00:45:52.840 was highly influenced by Christianity. And they took their cues in many ways from Jewish women
00:46:00.300 and from Christian women on this practice and process. And so again, in the Middle East,
00:46:05.560 This isn't a thing.
00:46:06.220 This is an American problem in our culture and a millennial issue for sure.
00:46:12.560 There's lots of those.
00:46:13.860 Yeah.
00:46:14.440 So the bigger question is, is this part of your life, covering your head or uncovering your head,
00:46:20.960 is this a part of your life that God does not have access to?
00:46:26.460 And why?
00:46:27.380 Ask yourself.
00:46:29.040 And then also remember the reason why we follow any biblical doctrine is because we want to honor God.
00:46:35.560 It's because we, even if we don't understand why, we still obey.
00:46:43.480 And as the scriptures say, as high as the heavens are above the earth, so are your ways higher than my ways.
00:46:51.200 Yeah.
00:46:51.980 Yeah, there's lots of scripture that, do we only obey the things that feel good?
00:46:59.000 No.
00:47:00.200 Do we only obey the things that we fully understand?
00:47:05.560 No, imagine that application to our children.
00:47:07.620 Our kids don't understand why I tell them to do certain things.
00:47:10.460 No, but I expect them to obey me even if they don't understand,
00:47:13.940 even if it's uncomfortable, even if they don't like it,
00:47:18.440 even if it's unpopular and their friends don't have to do it.
00:47:21.480 I expect them to obey.
00:47:23.120 And why?
00:47:24.640 Because I want them to trust that my instructions are good for them
00:47:29.500 and that they're the beneficiaries of obedience, not me,
00:47:34.440 but I'm actually love them so much that I've given them a reason to obey me.
00:47:41.560 And it's, it's built and founded in love.
00:47:44.500 Okay.
00:47:45.000 This week's thought, we're going to close out with a quote from Charles Spurgeon.
00:47:50.480 He says,
00:47:51.220 The apostle says that a woman is to have a covering upon her head because of the angels,
00:47:58.120 since the angels are present in the assembly and they mark every act of indecorum.
00:48:04.440 He actually has a sermon on this and this is just one of it, but Charles Spurgeon, man, I can't tell you how many people I see posting Charles Spurgeon quotes. They love Spurgeon. And if you love Spurgeon, you also got to know that this is how he taught the scriptures. His wife absolutely covered her head.
00:48:21.700 and so it's just something to think about ladies and men and again i hold this open with an open
00:48:30.080 hand i'm not white knuckle in this doctrine and we are super gracious if you come to a different
00:48:35.120 conclusion it's not a salveic issue it's not a salveic issue no but pray over this take some
00:48:41.400 time it's not about oh my gosh am i being obedient and not being obedient no just take the time where
00:48:47.300 scripture is clear, God looks at our behavior. Where scripture is obscure, God looks at the
00:48:54.100 heart. And I think he gives us some grace in that journey there. That's the end of the show.
00:49:01.600 All right. Until next week, do you have something else you want to say?
00:49:05.160 I do. I just want to say, reminder about the reviews. It's something that I just have in
00:49:10.060 our notes every time is that, guys, it's a good time right now, the end of the show.
00:49:13.580 if you guys are willing just right now pop out of here go to itunes and just rate the show it's
00:49:19.180 important it does help the exposure of the show in a big way the available show notes
00:49:24.480 will be available at relearnchurch.org forward slash podcast we are still building out that
00:49:32.680 page right now so it might not be available if you're watching this if you're listening to this
00:49:37.020 live like it came out you know this week but it will be available soon at relearnchurch.org
00:49:42.700 forward slash podcast um and all the past episodes again of ultimate marriage which this podcast was
00:49:49.500 titled for 30 episodes those are still available at ultimate marriage.com on that note we will
00:49:58.900 see you next week we will see you next week take care