Dale Partridge - April 10, 2019


Real Christianity #40: Is it Okay For A Pastor to be Rich?


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Length

31 minutes

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166.6147

Word count

5,166

Sentence count

158

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Hate speech

2

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Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
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00:00:00.660 Welcome to another episode of Real Christianity. Today we are talking about...
00:00:06.380 Is it okay for pastors to be rich?
00:00:08.700 Important conversation. I think a lot of Christians are wondering,
00:00:12.020 what are the expectations for pastors?
00:00:14.980 What are the expectations for money in the mature Christian?
00:00:20.700 And we've done episodes about money before in the context of marriage,
00:00:27.340 But we wanted to tackle this, I think, from a different perspective.
00:00:30.720 So that's what we're talking about today.
00:00:32.380 Veronica will open us up in a second.
00:00:35.000 A few things before we get started.
00:00:36.700 If you haven't left a review and you're a regular listener to the show, we'd really appreciate those reviews.
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00:00:48.020 I read every single one of them.
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00:01:00.760 if you have friends that aren't iPhone users you can let them know that exists in other places so
00:01:08.580 on that note let's dive into the conversation. Alrighty so earlier this week Dale had actually
00:01:16.280 showed me an instagram account that has recently popped up and it's going viral and it's called
00:01:21.720 preachers and sneakers which basically highlights all of these mega church pastors wearing incredibly
00:01:27.860 expensive shoes or clothing um and now i think the value of this account which could easily turn
00:01:33.840 dark and divisive is in keeping pastors accountable keeping pastors accountable to the word of god
00:01:39.880 yeah um james 3 1 warns pastors my brethren let not many of you become teachers knowing that
00:01:46.300 we shall receive a stricter judgment um and dale and i know this verse pretty well we've we've gone
00:01:53.120 over it quite a bit um because we're we're even trying to manage not just our own wealth but how
00:01:59.920 it's stewarded and given and perceived by those who follow us um and what some people don't
00:02:06.260 actually know is that Dale and I came out of the entrepreneurial business space, uh, where we own
00:02:11.700 several large companies and we, you know, for a while we're making great money doing it for many
00:02:17.220 years. Yeah. A lot of people that just joined in on our podcast think that maybe we've been doing
00:02:21.960 ministry for years and years and years. This is actually quite new. We came from the business
00:02:26.580 space and, um, sold companies and went into full-time ministry, not even two years ago.
00:02:33.340 Right. So, yeah. And then, and in that time we had become, you know, in the time of us running and operating those businesses, we had become debt free. We paid off our house, um, paid off our car. We acquired a few small rental units. Um, and so we were trying to steward that, those finances well. Um, but in, like Dale said, in 2017, we sold our company, um, along with our income with it.
00:02:59.800 We no longer have that income and went into full-time ministry.
00:03:04.540 We now live on a modest monthly income supported by the donors to our ministry.
00:03:10.160 Yeah. And so this is just important context to have when we talk about this because I'm a pastor.
00:03:15.220 And so I'm trying to come at this level-headed and not just looking out, but also looking in on our own example.
00:03:23.860 And, you know, without knowing this history about us, that we were in the business space and that we had several companies, some of which that had, you know, 50 employees.
00:03:35.800 And, you know, you could think that our property and our film studio and our backhouse, the things that you might see on Instagram stories, you might think that we're living large on everybody's donations.
00:03:46.060 But that that's not that's not the case. That's not what's happening here.
00:03:49.940 Yeah, we actually had all this paid off before we even went into ministry.
00:03:52.940 Yeah, exactly. And we are trying to, again, be transparent and live on a modest budget that I think like the average person in our area would live on.
00:04:07.980 The point is, as a pastor, I have to be very careful how my life is being perceived by those who follow me as I follow Christ.
00:04:18.080 You know, that's what the shepherd does, right? Follow me as I follow Christ.
00:04:20.940 So I have to be really careful about that.
00:04:23.140 And I think that's kind of the heart of this issue, of this conversation today, is just being careful.
00:04:30.220 And I'm an under-shepherd of Christ.
00:04:33.540 That's really the position that I hold as a pastor.
00:04:37.060 And we serve a God who chose to be born in a barn instead of being born in a palace.
00:04:42.100 We've got to remember those things.
00:04:43.360 2 Corinthians 8, verse 9 says,
00:04:45.720 For you know that the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for our sakes he became poor, that you through his poverty might become rich.
00:04:55.700 Now this is talking about eternal wealth here, but the idea is that this is like the theme of Jesus.
00:05:02.360 We know that Jesus did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many.
00:05:10.280 So there's this generosity element, this very meek element, humble element of Jesus.
00:05:17.000 And we know that Jesus didn't have anywhere to lay his head.
00:05:20.780 And so there's all these elements that talk about Jesus's perspective on how he lived.
00:05:26.600 And it would be pretty absurd to put together an argument that Jesus lived a luxurious lifestyle.
00:05:31.040 Like that's definitely not something that I think you could really put together.
00:05:36.300 Yeah.
00:05:36.720 Through scripture.
00:05:38.000 Yeah.
00:05:38.140 Yeah, and so Dale and I are actually still really growing in this area.
00:05:42.380 We really want to be sure we're not living an excessive or lavish lifestyle, but why?
00:05:48.860 Is it sinful to enjoy luxury once in a while?
00:05:52.040 No, not at all.
00:05:53.560 Is it sinful to have a nice house?
00:05:56.280 No.
00:05:56.960 The real issue, it all just comes down to the heart.
00:05:59.680 Yes.
00:06:00.080 Where's your heart?
00:06:01.200 And Dale and I really look at any privilege or liberty we might have in our family through the lens of 1 Corinthians 8 and 9.
00:06:08.140 um and in these chapters paul shares the doctrine of our love for the the doctrine of our love for
00:06:13.900 others and how it can often be limited or limit our liberties or privileges yep and when we say
00:06:20.360 like nice house we're going to talk about like those are relative words like oh nice house that
00:06:25.400 could be your 20 000 square foot house or that could be your you know 1600 square foot house
00:06:30.480 in downtown like we're going to talk about that because nice is relative and it's important to
00:06:35.660 kind of bring clarity to those words um you know what veronica's talking about in first corinthians
00:06:41.160 chapter eight and nine it's this idea again of of our love for our brothers and sisters in christ
00:06:47.760 will limit our liberties if our liberties let's just say drinking a glass of wine watching a
00:06:55.800 certain movie um driving a luxurious car if those liberties might possibly make another brother or
00:07:04.400 sister stumble or view christ in a manner that's inconsistent with the scriptures and so we we want
00:07:11.920 to limit those liberties even if they're totally you can do those things like the scriptures don't
00:07:15.660 condemn those things uh necessarily in their own right but we'll limit those things if there's any
00:07:22.580 chance that it might stumble a brother or sister um ultimately just because we can do something
00:07:32.100 doesn't mean that we should do something, and that's the mature question asked. Just because
00:07:37.420 we can doesn't mean we should, and I think Paul wraps this concept up really nicely,
00:07:42.860 and it's in 2 Corinthians, I believe. I didn't write down my reference point, but here, but it
00:07:47.980 says, all things, no, it's in 1 Corinthians. He says, all things are lawful for me, but not all
00:07:53.900 things are helpful. All things are lawful for me, but not all things edify or build up. Let no one
00:08:00.660 seek his own but each one the other's well-being and so it's just again like just because you can
00:08:07.540 doesn't mean you should it's not something that you know um it's it's really a deep maturity
00:08:14.580 heart issue yeah so let's get back to the question is it okay for pastors to be rich
00:08:21.480 um dale's actually put together a biblical argument that i think frames this question
00:08:26.380 correctly and we'll focus on the root issue and not the surface result yeah because i don't want
00:08:32.120 to talk about like is it a sin to wear gucci shoes on stage like that's not what we're talking about
00:08:37.020 um so i have a couple points i want to make and then we'll close up it'll be a maybe a shorter
00:08:43.560 show i don't know um we'll see we'll see yeah uh so first off um it's important to realize that
00:08:50.860 it's not a sin to be wealthy like it's not a sin to be wealthy so we got to just get some things
00:08:55.820 off the table. Just like we see the prosperity gospel deceiving people to believe that riches
00:09:02.820 are God's favor in someone's life, I've actually seen the opposite, which I call the poverty
00:09:08.400 gospel, when people seem to view a Christian to be more holy if they're poor. And again, I'm going
00:09:18.320 to bring a lot of clarity on this here. So, you know, if you know me, I'm far from a prosperity
00:09:23.060 teaching perspective. But the truth is, historically speaking, there have been both
00:09:31.380 holy, righteous men and women who have been both wealthy and poor. Now, you know, my experience is
00:09:41.920 that the majority of those people are the great saints of past were actually impoverished. They
00:09:49.500 were poor. And so there's something just to note with that. And I don't think it's because these
00:09:55.120 people were unskilled that they were poor. I think most of these people were servants and had chosen
00:10:01.020 to live a life of little, mostly for the reason to avoid anyone doubting their intentions,
00:10:08.680 anyone doubting that they're telling the gospel for money or that they're discipling for money.
00:10:13.740 um and uh you know paul does this with the corinthians in chapter 9 he says this line
00:10:20.820 nevertheless we have not used this right he's talking about uh the right to receive money for
00:10:27.380 the services of sharing the gospel or being a pastor in their life he says nevertheless we
00:10:33.740 have not used this right but endure all things lest we hinder the gospel of christ like he's
00:10:40.240 Saying, I don't want you to ever think that I'm preaching the gospel for money.
00:10:47.020 So therefore, I'm not going to even exercise my right to be paid for serving you in this manner.
00:10:52.880 I don't even want your money.
00:10:53.900 Just so it brings no doubt to you thinking that I'm in this for money.
00:11:01.180 That's Paul's stance there.
00:11:02.600 Now, he does receive money from other churches, but the Corinthian church, he chose to do that because it was a stumbling block for them.
00:11:10.240 Um, the second thing we need to realize is that our money and possessions are not disconnected from our relationship with God.
00:11:19.220 We like to think that there's these, like, private, off-limit areas, um, and money's definitely not one of those, those areas, um, that, that kind of escaped God's jurisdiction.
00:11:30.400 That's definitely not true.
00:11:31.880 Um, the Bible actually speaks more about money and possessions than, I think, almost any other topic.
00:11:36.680 There's, like, 2,300 verses on money and possessions.
00:11:39.260 that's more than like the Bible's added up combined verses on faith love and prayer
00:11:47.040 and so it's a big deal and so God talks about what he cares about and if we just look at emphasis
00:11:54.260 alone um uh we should just realize that the topic of money and possessions is something we should
00:12:01.640 take seriously the Bible talks about it a lot so therefore we should probably adopt and learn and
00:12:06.400 understand the Bible's perspective on that. Um, the third thing is, uh, that we don't see
00:12:12.660 scripture rebuking people for just simply being wealthy or rich. Um, but we do see scripture
00:12:20.200 absolutely warning Christians about the deceitfulness of riches, um, to be modest in
00:12:29.200 their appearances, uh, or using, uh, usage of that to be wise in their stewardship and to be generous. 0.76
00:12:36.400 And so those are things that we absolutely see and need to talk about some more.
00:12:41.520 But the question that we're talking about today isn't, should Christians be rich or wealthy?
00:12:47.300 It's, should pastors be rich or wealthy?
00:12:49.620 And I want to make a distinction here that's critical.
00:12:52.540 You know, Veronica read this verse earlier, James 3.1,
00:12:55.260 My brother, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.
00:13:00.080 Sometimes people think that it's talking about stricter judgment just from Christ.
00:13:04.060 I don't think that's what it's saying
00:13:06.720 I think that it's saying stricter judgment from the body
00:13:09.360 like people are going to be looking at you
00:13:11.760 and talking about you
00:13:13.080 and evaluating you
00:13:14.240 and examining you
00:13:15.260 and we know that
00:13:16.260 we're in ministry
00:13:16.780 we have lots of people asking those questions to us
00:13:20.300 now biblically speaking
00:13:23.240 there's a difference between someone who has a pastoral gifting
00:13:28.240 and someone who's sitting in a pastoral office
00:13:31.380 and so I want to just draw that distinction
00:13:34.180 you might think somebody's a pastor
00:13:36.340 but they really don't have any authoritative power
00:13:38.640 over a flock of people
00:13:40.960 they might have a pastoral gifting
00:13:42.680 but someone who actually holds an office of pastoral
00:13:46.680 like that's what they
00:13:48.200 not just even just like what they do for a living
00:13:50.580 but I'm talking about
00:13:51.480 they have a shepherd
00:13:52.920 or they have a flock of people
00:13:55.360 that they are spiritually overseeing
00:13:57.640 their development
00:13:59.040 and protecting and guiding and feeding those people.
00:14:03.420 And so for those folks that are walking that rollout,
00:14:09.780 there's actually, they're held to a higher set of standards in Scripture.
00:14:15.600 We actually talked about this a couple episodes ago,
00:14:17.640 but you can actually find those standards in Titus 1 and 1 Timothy chapter 3.
00:14:23.820 And people say, oh, that's for the elders.
00:14:26.300 Well, the word elders is really the same word in the scriptures for shepherd and pastor.
00:14:31.700 And so if you're in the office of pastor, I'd say you should be looking at those qualifications in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 and going, checking those boxes, making sure that those are true in your life.
00:14:42.420 And one of those standards is that you're blameless, meaning that you don't have any like opportunity for accusation.
00:14:53.660 That you're like above reproach.
00:14:55.940 You're really like living a life trying to avoid people misinterpreting something that you did.
00:15:05.900 Like you're so above reproach.
00:15:08.000 And then the second thing is that to not be greedy about money.
00:15:11.100 And so that's a really critical part about what a mark of a mature, godly man, pastoral man is to be.
00:15:20.040 um and so but again there's no biblical mandate that pastors can't be wealthy like let's just
00:15:28.360 say that you're a pastor of a small church and um you're a faithful man and all of a sudden
00:15:36.000 you inherit two million bucks is that person sinning now no let's just say that you're a
00:15:43.540 pastor and you have a book deal that comes up and it just goes bonkers and you make a million dollars
00:15:49.620 Is that sinful?
00:15:50.580 No.
00:15:51.960 The management, the poor management of that money absolutely could be sinful.
00:15:56.860 And as I said earlier, if a pastor is wealthy because of whatever success they have had financially, they should be wise stewards of that wealth, very generous with that wealth, modest with that wealth.
00:16:17.860 which is I think the bigger problem we're going to talk about today on this issue
00:16:21.480 and on guard for the deceptiveness of that wealth and I've never met a man who or family who had
00:16:30.860 all four of those components and was I worried that they're gonna let their their money take
00:16:39.080 over their life and we have good friends that make great money incredible money they're blessed
00:16:44.940 in money they are incredibly generous they are always on guard about the deceitfulness of riches
00:16:52.860 they are wise stewards with their money and they are incredibly modest you would never know
00:16:59.620 that they're wealthy and they walk out pastoral ministry um and so i think i want to close this
00:17:08.760 as veronica is going to get started here in a second is you know how we handle our material
00:17:12.700 wealth is a barometer of our spiritual health and so if someone isn't generous isn't modest
00:17:23.600 with their money um you know isn't recognizing the deceitfulness of those things um you know
00:17:32.080 isn't um what's the other what's the fourth thing that i'm looking for here um modest on guard
00:17:40.640 uh generous there's one more i thought though oh and isn't a wise steward
00:17:46.100 then man that that's not a spiritually mature brother it might they might be gifted
00:17:51.620 and i think that's what's going on these megachurch pastors are we cannot
00:17:55.560 confuse spiritual giftedness with spiritual maturity because just because you're a fantastic
00:18:02.800 communicator and you have a lot of bible knowledge it actually doesn't mean that you're spiritually
00:18:07.740 mature um maturity is something that's much much deeper and hard harder to evaluate um i'll close
00:18:15.460 with just the first timothy 6 10 verse that says for the love of money is the root of all kinds of
00:18:20.280 evil now the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil um the love of money for which
00:18:26.000 some have strayed from the faith in their greediness and pierced themselves through with many
00:18:30.580 sorrows I think a really good lesson that we heard from one of our friends um he's a
00:18:38.020 not a pastor um the president of a well-known non-profit um out in New York and he one time
00:18:44.540 told us uh perception is reality to many people therefore as leaders and shepherds for Christ we
00:18:50.660 must also manage perceptions and he gave us a few examples that I thought were really helpful
00:18:55.940 one of them being um i remember him saying i can drive i can drive a fifty thousand dollar volvo
00:19:01.940 but i cannot drive a thirty thousand dollar mercedes and uh this guy also has a lot of
00:19:08.120 famous designers who donate their clothing to him um but he actually requests that they remove all
00:19:13.860 of the labels and all of the tags that can be seen publicly um so that people cannot attach
00:19:19.780 a uh like a financial value or right yeah monetary value monetary value to his to his clothing um
00:19:27.420 so again looking back at these megachurch pastors who are wearing two thousand dollar shoes while
00:19:33.020 they preach or a thousand dollar gucci belt or you know fifteen hundred dollar burberry pants
00:19:38.800 um what can we learn from this yeah so this is i think the the point of the discussion is what do
00:19:45.520 I don't want to give you my opinion.
00:19:47.580 I just want the Bible's perspective on these things.
00:19:51.460 I think pastors need to be very careful about what their example teaches others.
00:19:58.120 We're shepherds.
00:19:59.960 And so our sheep are looking at us and trying to modify their lives to follow us as we follow Christ.
00:20:08.060 I mean, Paul even says, like, behave like me, follow me, follow my example, is what he says.
00:20:16.420 And so we need to realize how our example actually teaches people, not just what we say, but how we conduct ourselves.
00:20:26.440 And, you know, are our examples teaching others that spending their money on luxury items is wise?
00:20:34.020 um are they causing their flock to be envious or um resemble the culture you know you look at
00:20:42.820 some of these pastors and they have these really expensive cars and really expensive
00:20:47.020 airplanes and really expensive clothing like i would assume that causes envy in people
00:20:52.160 and so about going oh i want that like covetousness covetousness yeah there we go that's a better
00:20:57.920 word um are are is your example teaching your flock that your influence and authority comes
00:21:06.440 from the way you dress in the things that you wear the things that you have instead of by your
00:21:12.740 character in christ so we got to think about these things as pastors that's really important
00:21:17.540 secondly um i want to talk about the difference between luxury and functionality um this is a
00:21:24.140 really important distinction a toyota camry is functional a lamborghini is luxury um uh you know
00:21:32.240 sometimes people are just like hey it's their money you know again this is pastors don't get
00:21:38.280 to walk the same life that everybody else gets to walk we're literally in scripture called to a
00:21:44.440 higher set of standards um and i i've watched pastors that yeah buy lamborghinis it's wild to
00:21:51.520 me. A pair of $70 dress shoes from Macy's that you are your dress shoes because you only have
00:21:57.800 one or two pairs of them. You have brown ones and black ones and you wear them for, you know,
00:22:00.960 four years. That's different. That's a functional pair of shoes versus a $3,200 pair of Gucci
00:22:06.640 slippers that you wear and then you switch into your other shoes and your other shoes and your
00:22:11.620 other shoes. Even if they're given to you. Again, you're managing modesty. You're managing
00:22:16.740 perception you know a Patagonia or North Face jacket for where we live in the cold like it's
00:22:23.560 just functional technology yeah they're $200 jackets but they last for several years and at
00:22:29.280 the end of the day we want the technology that actually keeps us warm and and if we can get it
00:22:35.960 at Costco we will but which our Costco does sell Patagonia jackets yeah and so sometimes but you
00:22:42.720 You know, a $4,000 Armani snow coat is luxury.
00:22:47.980 And so a nice single-family home that, you know, is clean and it's put together is functional.
00:22:56.240 It can be nice.
00:22:56.960 It can have hardwood floors, whatever, you know, your thing is.
00:23:01.280 But like a 9,000-square-foot house for your four-person family that feels overwhelmingly grand when you walk in.
00:23:09.300 where people like walk in and immediately like whoa you know I think a pastor should really
00:23:17.720 not set himself above it's the opposite of what Jesus does sets himself below
00:23:22.300 and so people need to be able to walk in your home and go this feels like a normal house like
00:23:28.960 like my house or my my parents house or like the house I grew up in or you know like it's not
00:23:34.620 It could be beautifully designed, and it can be, you know, but it's modest in terms of you're not feeling like, whoa, I'm in a mansion right now, you know?
00:23:45.060 And so that's something that I just, for pastors, I want to be clear on.
00:23:53.080 You know, my point is that Christians can be centered on quality and functionality.
00:23:58.980 Just, I would be very careful for pastors, especially, to be centered on luxury.
00:24:04.620 And can you have nice things? Sure, that's between you and the Lord on what you want to do there.
00:24:11.320 um you know but having a you know buying a nice necklace for your wife on your 20th anniversary
00:24:17.120 is much different than buying flashy lavish consumer goods that have very little long-term
00:24:25.260 value like a shirt that's gonna like go away in a while you know where compared to like maybe a
00:24:33.020 nice gold necklace celebrating 20 years of marriage with your bride that that's a different
00:24:36.400 thing so again this takes wisdom and discernment and all of this there's no like right answer and
00:24:43.640 and you just got to understand some of these deeper things bottom line i want to say as we
00:24:49.540 close here is what is the heart behind you as a pastor or as a christian even wanting luxury items
00:24:56.780 like what's the heart behind that because there's really great quality stuff that isn't luxury and
00:25:04.140 that rest that money could be used to serving the poor or whatever it might be um are you trying to
00:25:10.260 seek approval or superiority um over your fellow man just to kind of set yourself above people
00:25:17.600 do you think that luxurious items somehow validate your leadership or authority like because i have
00:25:23.840 these nice brands and wealth maybe it makes me seem more or just to be accepted by your peers
00:25:29.000 Yeah. And a lot of these celebrity pastors are friends with celebrities. So maybe that's a thing. I don't know. As a Christian, do you really want your money and materialism to be what you used to motivate other people with?
00:25:47.600 like are you really like wanting to use that to be your motivator like bragging about your
00:25:54.380 wealth or your things is that how you want to really motivate people as a Christian
00:26:00.540 or do you want to motivate others with godliness and good character and humility and again remember
00:26:07.520 like I'm talking to like people in leadership mostly but even all Christians we should be very 0.66
00:26:12.440 careful around this um i said last episode that um you know the culture says if you got lots of
00:26:19.980 money you're standing on thick ice the bible says if you got lots of money be careful you're standing
00:26:25.480 on thin ice um so you know in my experience the most effective and godly wealthy people
00:26:33.080 that we know and we've got a chance to meet some incredibly wealthy people over the years
00:26:38.380 when we were in the business world veronica oh man should we tell veronica's story sure we should
00:26:43.960 it's one of my moments oh this is so funny guys you're gonna let i hope that he listens to this
00:26:49.080 episode oh my gosh um i don't even remember his name chad oh great chad i don't remember his last
00:26:54.640 name you don't need to say it don't say it um this guy who's a billionaire sold his company
00:27:01.020 to google for like a couple billion dollars several yeah several billion dollars i had no
00:27:05.620 idea who this guy was i knew he was wealthy and i i knew his story but i like i didn't know him
00:27:09.880 personally um and dill had a dinner we had had a dinner or something to go to with them um
00:27:17.840 for this business group that you were a part of and you i walked up and you're like oh hey chad
00:27:25.400 this is my wife veronica i was like oh hi nice to meet you and i he's wearing this really nice
00:27:33.080 you know clean pressed button-up shirt and I was like oh here you have you look so nice you have
00:27:38.860 a hair on your shirt like let me pull that off for you and I pulled it and it was attached to
00:27:44.640 his chest it was like one of his chest hairs poking through his shirt and I was like oh my
00:27:50.340 goodness I'm so sorry it was very funny it was pretty funny and he was totally gracious like
00:27:56.460 didn't care he laughed it off but i was pretty embarrassed and this guy gives money away to the
00:28:03.280 poor i mean this guy's an amazing amazing man i haven't i haven't talked to him in many years now
00:28:08.440 but um but i would still call him a friend and uh and what i'm saying here is that you know
00:28:14.460 these godly people that you that have wealth the people that we've seen in our experience
00:28:21.740 the ones we really appreciate or i don't want to say appreciate the ones that we just
00:28:26.240 go man that's incredible is that you never even know that they're that wealthy
00:28:30.640 you know they're a good example to follow they're a good example to follow they're humble
00:28:35.840 they're radically generous um they're modest they're reserved um it doesn't mean they don't
00:28:43.080 have like a nice house and you know those kind of things because they do but you just go just
00:28:49.360 the humility in it all that's the mark and and it's a journey for all of us it's a journey for
00:28:55.480 us you know we're we're coming out of the business world into ministry and we're even evaluating like
00:28:59.780 how much do we show how much do we give away like we're on our own journey here too and so
00:29:06.460 i'm gracious with even these pastors are on their journey and and um you know while i'm not going
00:29:13.880 to condone or say that man i would do that or i think that's okay um i think that it's something
00:29:18.920 that we just go hey you know they're on a journey i'm glad that this account that came up uh if it
00:29:24.100 stays healthy which i i don't know if it will um but but it does hold people accountable it's
00:29:32.860 holding them accountable to the public square of showing a problem like hey this is a little
00:29:37.080 bit off the bible says this you're supposed to be representing jesus and you're wearing thousands
00:29:41.320 of dollars of clothing um on stage and some of these guys are wearing like ten thousand dollar
00:29:46.240 outfits fifteen thousand dollar outfits and so it that's why we want to do the show i thought it was
00:29:52.320 a good a good conversation hopefully it was helpful and edifying um it was even edifying
00:29:58.460 to me when i was writing it so um i think that's it for today um i guess you have anything else to
00:30:05.440 say no okay um again if you guys haven't left a review this would be a great time to do that
00:30:11.620 just be able to go to itunes and just hit the stars that'd be a huge blessing for us
00:30:18.840 And again, you guys can watch this on YouTube and all the other places.
00:30:24.260 And thanks for supporting us and just being a part of our journey with us.
00:30:27.780 We're excited for just the season of life of walking through and teaching every single week.
00:30:34.220 It's a lot of work for us, but we are very excited to be able to edify you guys in the ways that hopefully it's helpful for you.
00:30:41.680 So thank you, and we will see you next.
00:30:47.140 And the day that this episode comes out is actually Dale's birthday.
00:30:50.260 Oh, dang.
00:30:51.640 So.
00:30:52.380 Well, look at that.
00:30:52.860 Go ahead and write in until I'm having a birthday.
00:30:54.280 Oh, dang.
00:30:54.800 Yeah.
00:30:55.100 34.
00:30:55.500 That's true.
00:30:56.000 34.
00:30:56.520 That's coming.
00:30:57.700 All right, guys.
00:30:58.440 Well, thank you guys so much.
00:30:59.300 We'll see you next week.
00:31:00.000 Take care.