Real Christianity #43： How Should Christians View Public Breastfeeding？
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Summary
In this episode, we answer questions about public nursing, understanding miscarriage, and dealing with in-laws. We also discuss the concept of modesty and how it can be applied locally in the context of the Bible and culture.
Transcript
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Welcome to Real Christianity. Today we are talking about public nursing and understanding miscarriage.
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Two very common questions that we get, and we are going to do just a Q&A today with just two questions.
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And again, as Veronica said, we're going to talk about public nursing, which seems to be like a question you get a lot, right?
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Oh yeah, I get this question multiple times a week.
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And how are we supposed to view that? And what are we supposed to do according to the Bible?
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what principle should we apply to that the second thing is understanding miscarriage I think the
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miscarriage journey is something that more people experience than we even want to realize we've had
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two miscarriages ourselves and so we thought it was important to answer this young lady's question
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so these questions are I guess female oriented questions today but again I think they're really
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great for the men to hear. A couple other things. We saw so many questions on a variety of different
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topics that kind of just get asked over and over. So I wanted to reference a few episodes that we
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already have answers for these episodes. If you're looking for how to motivate your husband to be a
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spiritual leader, we did an episode titled how a wife can motivate her husband to be the spiritual
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leader. And that's episode number four. And, uh, you can find that on YouTube. You can find that
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on iTunes. Um, you could find that at ultimate marriage.com. You can find that wherever you
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found this. Exactly. Uh, and we have another one, uh, which is off a common question about
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how do I deal with the relationships with in-laws? Um, how do I create those boundaries,
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healthy boundaries? And we did an episode called five biblical steps for handling holiday conflict,
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which is episode number 23 that i think addresses that really well so just yeah that episode's
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talking particularly about around the holidays but it definitely addresses the same issue yeah
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things are just amplified at the holidays but it's a good uh it's a good answer for that question so
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two episodes right there to help you on your journey on those two questions so we're going
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to get started um uh before we get started real quick i forgot to announce or mention um reviews
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If you haven't already and you're a regular listener,
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Again, this is available on YouTube, Spotify, Google Play,
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Veronica will read us the first question that we received.
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We're keeping these anonymous, so we're not going to say who asked them.
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But yeah, like Dale said, I get this question probably,
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on average about twice a week um so i knew we'd hit it sooner or later um so now is the time yep
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um so first question in recent years there have been more and more women nursing their babies in
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public without a cover this past sunday after church we were sitting on the lawn outside of
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the sanctuary and i saw a young woman just pull out her breast and start nursing her child
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it seemed improper to me what does the bible say about this okay so as dale referenced a couple of
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other episodes we've actually done an episode on modesty before titled um how a mature how mature
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christian couples view modesty and that's going to be on episode 12 if you want to go take a listen
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to that um but the bible doesn't tell us exactly what men and women should wear or should not wear
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as clothing the bible simply gives us principle the principle of modesty yeah um and if you've
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been a listener a regular listener for any amount of time you'll know that um dale has mentioned in
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several episodes that the bible gives us universal principles for local application yeah this idea
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that we get all these principles like the lord's constantly given us in scripture these universal
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principles but they're to be applied in your real life locally yeah so therefore the principle of
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modesty comes from the scriptures but the details of the application of modesty comes from your
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culture in your time period um for example the application of modesty is going to be different
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in africa iran and america they're all going to be different um and i'm not saying that modesty is
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solely determined by the culture that is not what i'm saying i think you could uh argue that the
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scriptures support that it's never okay to just walk around naked for everyone to consume um that
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would be i mean hey it's it's actually legal here it's yeah you can be completely naked here in
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Oregon and walk down the street and there's nothing wrong with it there's there's things
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that they do annual naked ride on their bikes and it's just we have to cover our children's eyes
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it's terrible yeah but I think most people can agree that that's like scripture is not for that
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yeah so um but what is something like breastfeeding in public what is that like um what is or how
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should that be done um the short answer as with anything it should be done modestly um so
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i personally with all three of our children i personally nursed all of my children in public
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locations however i've always covered myself um with a blanket or you know burp cloth whatever
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it is i don't know a blanket usually um and if for some reason i even felt uncomfortable or
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whatever situation i was in even felt appropriate say we're a nice dinner at a restaurant in a
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meeting or something i would even remove myself from there and go find a more private place to
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nurse um but you may be thinking why why would you do that um well first i live in a culture
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where breasts are sexual i think that there's no argument there that a bare breast uh in america
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causes sexual arousement um secondly i'm not modest simply for my own benefit um i'm modest
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for the benefit of others i'm modest because i would never want my body to cause another brother
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to stumble in his purity um sure i can't control what other men are thinking or what they're doing
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with their eyes but i can control my part in that both parties are responsible when it comes to
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sexuality so uh for example i can't just walk into a park in my underwear and then get mad at
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everybody for looking at me yeah right like i have a responsibility on my own part and so do they
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um another point that we make in the modesty episode if you guys go back and listen to it or
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if you've listened to it already you'll know that um we talk about young puberty age boys um and
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girls could on you know nursing your child without a cover be a stumbling block for this 12 year old
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boy who's already fighting to not give into pornography yeah or could it be teaching a 12
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year old girl that her breasts are not private and can be shown in public for all to see
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personally I also view covering myself as a sign of respect towards my husband
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uh the scriptures say you know my body is not my own um in first corinthians chapter seven chapter
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seven um but it's his too and even before it's mine and my husband's it my body belongs to the
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lord as it says in first corinthians chapter six verse uh 19 through 20 and i have the scripture
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here that i can read to you or do you not know that your body is the temple of the holy spirit
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who is in who is in you whom you have from god and you are not your own for you were bought with
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for you were bought at a price therefore glorify god in your body and in your spirit which are
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gods so ultimately um i'm not looking for ways to prompt any type of sexual attention in fact
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a godly woman should be looking for ways to protect herself from sexual attention yeah um
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The only sexual attention a woman should desire should be from her husband.
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He called the Israelites to eat different, to work different, to dress different, and to speak different.
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And I know that nursing without a cover is more convenient.
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bam that was like really i think clear on yeah so it's just um it's an important topic of this
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culture of the american culture and the modern culture especially in warmer climates it seems to
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be even more of an issue i remember when we went to hawaii i thought man i don't know if like
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this would be difficult to live here as a man um just because of the sheer nakedness that's all the
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time you know uh we grew up in southern california and it's similar there too it's similar there too
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we actually made a determination that we wanted to raise our kids somewhere else because we didn't
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want our daughters uh to be identified as their value with their body which is almost impossible
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to get around in southern california um where everybody's half naked pretty much year round
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and um yeah especially in the area where we lived yeah so modesty is just a big big conversation
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that we need to have often i think the whole discussion can be wrapped up in two scriptures
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about this um first corinthians 8 verses 9 it says but beware lest somehow this liberty of yours
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becomes a stumbling block to those who are weak and so the bible tells us that we need to be
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sensitive to the conscience of others um and even if they're permitted like these even if the
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activity that you do is permitted in scripture let's just say drinking alcohol for example is
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permitted um in scripture you know you're not allowed to be drunk but if you know you have a
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glass of wine you're not going to find a scripture that's going to support that you can't do that
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so it's permitted in scripture this this idea we need to limit our liberties to prevent
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a stumbling opportunity for another brother or sister who's has a weaker conscience and that is
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love when we actually sacrifice what we can do because of what because that ability or that
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freedom or that liberty might actually stumble another brother or sister and that same thing
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with modesty i mean ladies you have to know that the men of this culture are completely obliterated
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by pornography i mean men everywhere are under attack constantly and they are full-blown addicted
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in terms of looking at porn on a regular basis yeah and many women today too but this we're
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obviously talking directly yeah and so you know you don't want to be a sexual prompt
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in another man's life ever unless it's your husband and so i just say it comes from love
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a modesty conversation and sure the application happens to be more on women in this situation but
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this application of limiting our liberties for the love of others is something that all christians
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men and women need to do the second scripture i think about is philippians 2 3 through 4
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it says let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit but in lowliness of mind
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let each esteem others better than himself let each of you look out not only for his own interest
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but also for the interests of others and so we're called to just not do anything out of selfish
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ambition like i'm here to do this and establish myself from this position of political thought
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or whatever. Um, and I also need to not just consider me, but consider others. Um, and that's
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a really important principle that we need to apply to this conversation. Yeah. Just, um, since you're
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saying, you know, not just consider myself, but consider others. And then we also touched on
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the, uh, young boys going through puberty type of age, but me thinking as a mom, I've got two
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young children that are, you know, I've got three young children, but boys particularly that are
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three and one uh almost two and i even now in their young age want to protect their purity
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and if there is a woman uh nursing without a cover i try to distract them and don't want
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them getting comfortable with that yeah it's it's a sacred thing uh sexuality is a sacred thing
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it's connected to god and yeah i want to protect my son's purity even as young as they are yeah
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And so it's something that, again, I think that, you know, a lot of women maybe have never heard this before.
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So if this is you and you're concerned and you're like, oh, maybe embarrassed or convicted by the Holy Spirit on this, you know, praise God that the convictions come.
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And it's not me convicting you or Veronica convicting you.
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It's just what we're saying with scriptures teach.
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The church, sadly, doesn't teach a lot on this topic.
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And you get an opportunity at this point to go, okay, you can repent, you can change your behavior and never think about it again.
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And just not be shameful, not be embarrassed about it, just move forward.
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And the second thing is, if you're defensive on this conversation, like, no, I'm like, I'm not going to do that.
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Like, I just want to ask you, well, one, what do you, like, why?
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and just ask the Lord why why am I feeling this way
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we have a call modesty is a pretty clear directive in scripture and so just something
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to think about as you're on this journey question
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number two I'm going to take but Veronica is going to read the question
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um miscarriage pretty hard topic yeah okay next question about six months ago i had a miscarriage
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then i hear the idea that god is sovereign so if god is sovereign did god take my baby
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so i feel like we've been through some of these things thinking through them before i mean um
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why don't you share a little bit about just the miscarriages that we've had yeah we've had two
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miscarriages we've had um one right after aria well not right after but you know after her between
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her and honor um and then we had one i don't know back in august um july august so not even a year
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ago um and each experience was devastating it was hard um it was a really tough thing to walk
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through um i would say the second one was probably harder on me emotionally than it was the first one
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i'm not saying that's the case for everybody that was just for me personally um it was farther
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along we were i think 11 i was 11 weeks 11 weeks that one yeah and uh my first one was at seven
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weeks and yeah it was just hard it's hard physically because you have to you basically
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go through you know not as intense but you basically go through labor and you pass the baby
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um lord willing you know you can do that at home without intervention if you can um which i was
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able to praise God um and so yeah you go through these physical pain um and you're bleeding and
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it's emotional pain and it's traumatizing with no like reward in the end kind of thing um yeah
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and I remember the first time uh I got the phone call you know we I was having I was bleeding and
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we went to urgent care um they said it's a threatened miscarriage it's not a miscarriage
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because their baby is still in there with a heartbeat but it's a threatened miscarriage
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um anyway i ended up having a miscarriage um and they called to confirm that i don't remember
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exactly this is you know five years ago four years ago um called to confirm it and i remember
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hanging up the phone and crying and as i hung up the phone aria puked all over the floor i remember
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that and so i'm like trying to grieve and bawl my eyes out but also care for my child who just
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vomited all over the floor just felt like spiritual attack it totally did um and so that was the first
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one and then yeah the second one was a few longer than a few months ago but in august yeah i think
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a lot of um husbands really don't know how to handle this either you know just as a man the
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first one i feel like i was just like i didn't even know what was going on i think the big change
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for a man is that you um you have a plan as a man like you're the leader of your home you have a
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vision man we're pregnant we're having another baby i'm planning i'm working i'm getting things
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organized and then nobody changes your plans as a man like that's kind of like a thing that you
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kind of your domain you know we're going somewhere and generally most generally yeah so to have that
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kind of shift for me was a big thing of like going whoa like like someone slammed on the brakes and
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changed directions yeah and i'm like okay lord like that wasn't what i expected and and um and
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what a weird thing to happen and and then also i think for me you know not understanding of the
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first one uh yeah i understand a lot more the second time around but the first miscarriage
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just caring for you emotionally and uh i don't think i really clicked heavily with me in that
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first time it was mostly like caring for you trying to understand it going theologically
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and logical about the whole thing and trying to really figure it out the second one i kind of
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i broke down a few times and started really understanding we had more children children
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were older we'd gone through some pregnancy or some another birth um two more births and so it's
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just a journey so ladies be patient with your husbands on on those things um because it is
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different um they can't yeah you guys don't go through the physical side of it or necessarily
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the emotional side because we feel the emotional side the day we find out we have a baby in there
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yeah um where it takes men generally not all but a little bit longer uh time to grasp that concept
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yeah so i put together a question or an answer to this question um i guess that was a preface
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of our own story i'm gonna read the question one more time says about six months ago i had
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a miscarriage then i hear the idea of the sovereignty of god um so if god is sovereign
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um did god take my baby and i think that's a pretty common question i want to just give you
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a theological argument of why God did not take your baby
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It might be a little bit heady in terms of just intellectual thinking.
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I'll try to put it all together here in a minute.
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So first off, I want to talk about this idea of sovereignty.
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You know, and I'm looking at my notes here if you're watching the video.
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We have to determine where God's sovereignty ends
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So there is a point where God's sovereignty ends
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A choice to come to Christ or a choice to leave Christ.
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You know, if we don't have a choice in this world and we can't leave our relationship with God,
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and so in order for love to get to exist choice must exist and we have to realize also that
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for humans to have free will if we if we didn't have free will then there would be no sin in the
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world because if we didn't have free will and sin existed then God created sin and your entire
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theology on a holy God is gone so the idea is that sin is evidence that we do have free will
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and so again i'm just going to connect this back to you guys here in a second
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so why is this important to a conversation around miscarriage
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uh we got to take god off trial for our miscarriage like we blame god he's on trial
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you know um we do this with suffering like why am i suffering god why do you why have you done
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this to me you know why are you taking this now there's a journey god says in the scriptures that
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he disciplines those he loves um there's a distinguished difference between like conviction
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and change and like inflicting illness or killing babies um in terms of the new covenant and
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understanding there it's important that you understand that distinction um but we can't
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blame god for what man and the enemy has done through free will okay we can't blame god
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in which you once walked according to the course of this world,
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According to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience.
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Like God has allowed evil to exist because evil cannot exist if good doesn't exist.
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And I should say the other way around, good, in order for good to exist, evil must exist.
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You can't just have love because there's no alternative, then it's not love.
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And so in relation to miscarriage, did God's sovereignty take your baby?
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The effects of sin in this world have literally altered the earth.
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that is it's a result of a broken and fallen world
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well, gosh, Lord, why did you create a world that has sin?
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And so the beauty is that in order for love to exist, sin had to exist.
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And so this is important, just kind of logical side of understanding God and putting this into correct perspective.
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Yeah, so this sin is our enemy in this element.
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God merely gave us the choice and we have all sinned and we know that that sin actually breaks
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down our bodies we know that when we commit sexual immorality and we know that we we do
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these things we think these thoughts it breaks us down um and this is why the gospel is here to
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to save us from the spiritual power of sin it's to heal us from the disease of sin
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yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.
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And so there's a scripture here in Romans 8, 18 through 21,
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For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be received in us.
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For the earnest expectation of creation eagerly awaits for the revealing of the sons of God.
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For the creation was subject to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it in hope.
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Because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
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There's other scriptures that talk about that the earth even groans.
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for redemption like sin has broken things down and so God's sovereignty in these things and man's
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responsibility in these things and so there's those two things and we got to be very careful
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that we don't blame God for the acts of man or blame God for the acts of the enemy and it's so
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easy to do. I think I heard a really good statement and argument. Blaming God for the evil in the
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world would be like blaming Henry Ford for all the car accidents that are in the world. Henry Ford
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made the vehicles, but is it his fault that the car accidents were made? No, it's not. So it's
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just an important way to look at that. But we're still left with lots of questions after a
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miscarriage uh you know what caused the baby to die could we prevented it could we have prevented
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its death i know women oftentimes like is it something that i did did i fall did i eat something
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wrong or or whatever did i get not you know exercise too hard exercise too hard yeah exactly
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um you know why did god surprise us make us you know excited about this and then shock us with
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loss like why does god do these kind of things um but those questions i think only lead to anxiety
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and frustration because we don't actually have those answers yeah we'll never know yeah and so
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instead we get to cling to what we do know that has been revealed by God to us in the scriptures
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and I want to talk about that for a second there's a scripture that Moses says he says
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the secret things belong to God but the things revealed belong to us and our children forever
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this is Deuteronomy 29 29 and I love that that the secret things they do belong to God and as
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of right now we'll see things through a glass darkly is what it says in first Corinthians I
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believe 13 and we just don't know everything the things that we do know are the things that the
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Lord has revealed to us and there's no there's no fruitfulness in questioning and wondering all the
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things that we'll never know and um you know we we do have a sovereign god and he's on our side
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um but we got to remember in these moments that one day there is going to be a world
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a new world with new creation with a new relationship between christ and his bride
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with new bodies and um there's not going to be crying or distress there's not going to be any
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more dying of babies or people taken too young um but there's only going to be flourishing there's
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only going to be joy um you know every tear will be gone and for now we take comfort in god's
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promises uh for now we get to know that he's there for us that he's sovereign um and that he holds
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us up with his righteous right hand and this is the things that we get to lean on in moments like
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this so it's a it's a difficult conversation it's very theological i think when you get into
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suffering you have to kind of come to that like take god off trial did god cause this no we can't
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blame god for the works of evil that's my main point yeah and i encourage you to even think
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through that even before you enter a season of suffering because we're all going to suffer at
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some point and totally um and battling through those thoughts and emotions in the midst of
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distress in the midst of suffering in the midst of being overly emotional we did this is a lot
00:28:52.280
harder yeah we we we had to figure out like lord why do you have us here and it's really easy to
00:28:58.200
like i guess assign your struggle to like god's plan god works together all things for good for
00:29:05.500
those who love him and so he'll take your tragedy tragedies and turn them into triumphs we know that
00:29:11.940
but it doesn't mean that God caused the tragedy right and so we got to be real careful about that
00:29:18.520
and take God off trial in these moments and I love what Veronica said yeah you don't want to
00:29:23.700
have to search this after the cancer diagnosis you want to know these things about God before
00:29:32.160
and so whatever comes at you you can properly place the uh cause of it uh on sin and the enemy
00:29:41.760
and not have a doubt that it could ruin your faith um okay that was those are two questions
00:29:51.380
two questions for today um so weird to like exit out of a deep thing like that um and then come
00:29:58.400
into like oh hey but now we're gonna talk about something else um we finished the podcast section
00:30:04.160
on our website i wanted to mention that praise be to god because that took a while all the episodes
00:30:10.140
are on there all of the episodes are on there nice and so you can now listen and you can watch
00:30:15.380
the video of each episode you can listen to it or watch it on the website you i have the important
00:30:22.620
takeaways of every episode the scriptures referenced in every episode are available
00:30:27.480
um and all of them uh are available there all the ones for real christianity as you guys know
00:30:34.840
this podcast originally started under the name ultimate marriage and the first 30 episodes
00:30:39.720
were uh ultimate marriage all based on marriage all based on marriage and family those are found
00:30:46.340
at ultimate marriage.com i think this is episode number 43 so the last 13 episodes as of this
00:30:51.800
episode are found at relearnchurch.org forward slash listen and all you got to do is just click
00:30:59.480
the real a real christianity banner you'll see and then they'll have all the episodes right there
00:31:04.780
you can share them with people you can reference back to them if you want to um the last thing
00:31:10.460
we'll mention is we've learned that the almost the entire growth of the podcast has happened from
00:31:18.500
referrals people sharing it with their friends um and family and so i wanted to ask you guys
00:31:27.380
we wanted to ask you guys if our ministry has been edifying for you and your family um would you
00:31:33.780
think of somebody that could use some of the topics that we've covered um that could use
00:31:42.560
help with that and would you be willing to introduce them to the podcast um and again our
00:31:49.460
heart is just to help more people and you guys do a better job of knowing who needs to hear the
00:31:55.280
podcast because you know the struggles of that person's life uh you know the extent that we get
00:32:00.700
are just the questions people send in yeah and it's interesting you know when you do marketing
00:32:05.040
you know as a non-profit ministry we do marketing but like i don't know who needs
00:32:10.220
the things, I mean, not that everybody couldn't benefit, but there are certain people that need
00:32:15.720
this conversation about miscarriage. There are certain people that need the conversation about
00:32:19.720
how to care for young children. There's certain conversations that we talked about modestly that
00:32:24.960
people need to hear, and you know who they are. And so if you'd be willing to just pass along
00:32:31.560
the podcast a certain episode, we'd really appreciate that.
00:32:34.800
on that note um we thank you guys for taking the time to listen to this episode
00:32:40.660
and we will bring you another one next wednesday see you guys see you guys take care