Dale Partridge - May 08, 2019


Real Christianity #44： The 7 Criteria for Finding a Good Church


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35 minutes

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168.07677

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5,973

Sentence count

150

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3

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3

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Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode of Real Christianity, we discuss what it means to be in a biblical church and what to look for when looking for a church that teaches the Bible. What do you look for in a good biblical church?

Transcript

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00:00:00.000 Welcome to another episode of Real Christianity.
00:00:02.520 Today we are talking about how to find a biblical church.
00:00:05.660 A lot of people ask us this question on what does it mean to be in a biblical church?
00:00:10.880 And I know you guys know that we plant house churches.
00:00:13.520 That's our ministry at relearnchurch.org.
00:00:17.140 But we're not going to be talking about specifically how to find house churches.
00:00:20.700 House churches are difficult to find because they don't have websites.
00:00:25.340 But we are actually working on a solution, hopefully later in 2020.
00:00:30.000 to help more people find those biblical house churches.
00:00:33.240 Until then, you're in a local area,
00:00:36.560 and you're just looking for a good church that teaches the Bible.
00:00:41.480 You can have a biblical church that's not inside of a house.
00:00:44.020 Yeah, exactly. 0.73
00:00:45.160 What do you look for?
00:00:47.820 What are the criteria of a biblical church?
00:00:50.860 So we're going to walk you guys through that.
00:00:52.960 Hopefully this is a really helpful episode for you guys.
00:00:55.800 I think that it's going to be useful in terms of it's not just fluff,
00:00:59.620 but I think really useful for you evaluating if the church that you're at is fruitful and biblical.
00:01:07.380 And if you're looking for another church, here's how to do it.
00:01:09.980 So we'll let Veronica start with number one.
00:01:12.960 Well, yeah, before I start with number one, there are seven criteria that we've come up with.
00:01:16.740 And if your church doesn't meet all seven, that's OK.
00:01:20.280 Hopefully, you know, look for five of the seven.
00:01:23.140 Yeah. So we're going to just dive right in.
00:01:25.240 The first one is expository teaching over topical teaching.
00:01:29.620 Yeah, so I'll dive through some of these, and then Veronica will jump in as we go through.
00:01:35.320 I'm going to hit this one, number one, expository teaching over topical teaching.
00:01:40.280 Topical teaching isn't inherently bad.
00:01:42.240 It's not a bad thing.
00:01:43.280 I often will do a topical teaching here and there.
00:01:47.280 But since the Bible has become more offensive in the culture, which it has, is more politically charged,
00:01:52.960 Many pastors have opted for topical sermons to avoid those politically charged portions of scripture.
00:02:01.160 And so we go topical, where we only kind of put in a few verses.
00:02:05.520 Versus expository, we go verse by verse by verse.
00:02:09.660 This is actually probably why you haven't heard a sermon on women in the church.
00:02:14.020 And why you haven't heard a sermon on head coverings.
00:02:16.480 Or why you haven't heard a sermon on divorce.
00:02:19.180 because it seems like many pastors just kind of skip those in their...
00:02:23.740 They go around them.
00:02:24.880 They go around them. 0.95
00:02:25.840 Bob and weave.
00:02:26.780 Yeah, and it's like sermon series.
00:02:29.260 That's the big popular thing is we have a series on this and a series on that.
00:02:34.580 I just say it's more important to go through an expository, exegetical,
00:02:40.120 meaning that you're breaking down the scriptures verse by verse,
00:02:43.300 going through a book of the Bible.
00:02:44.500 You're not skipping anything.
00:02:46.160 The goal of an expository teacher or pastor is not to hear,
00:02:52.760 wow, what an informative lesson or what an uplifting message.
00:02:56.700 Thank you.
00:02:57.520 That's not the goal for the expository teacher.
00:03:01.220 What they're looking for is, thank you.
00:03:03.820 Now I understand what that Bible passage is saying.
00:03:09.160 Now I understand my Bible more.
00:03:11.480 It brings clarity to what people are already reading.
00:03:14.380 yeah and it makes them feel like oh now i know what first corinthians is about
00:03:17.860 um it's not about oh i feel better about myself in this informative
00:03:22.680 uplifting motivating message it's more about no i understand god's word
00:03:27.860 with a greater clarity and so that's that's the difference between topical
00:03:32.700 and expository and this is another way of putting this is verse by verse
00:03:36.760 teaching and um you know we're going to go through
00:03:39.820 through john i just taught through first corinthians which took me how long a year and a
00:03:46.520 half year and a half going through and i could have gone faster um but it took me a year and a
00:03:51.800 half because i went yeah verse by verse and sometimes there would only be a few verses
00:03:55.680 sometimes it'd be a chunk there'd be some weeks because we do biblical house church um there'd
00:04:00.500 be some weeks where you wouldn't preach yeah so but to get through that whole thing it was about
00:04:04.260 a year and a half that's a long book um but yeah just taking people straight through you want to
00:04:09.340 look for pastors that are taking you straight through God's word, not really taking you through
00:04:13.920 their own opinion about a variety of other passages. I think Acts 20, 26 through 27 is
00:04:20.840 very instructive. Paul's talking about his time, I forget which church it could be, with Corinth.
00:04:29.680 It says, therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all. Verse 27,
00:04:36.240 For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God, meaning that he's
00:04:41.360 given the reference back to the Old Testament, proving that Jesus is the Messiah, all the
00:04:46.820 way to the New Testament revelation that he's received from the Holy Spirit.
00:04:49.820 He's given the whole counsel of God.
00:04:52.020 And I think that's just the pastor's job is to really take the sheep through the whole
00:04:58.280 counsel of scripture, not to avoid certain passages of scripture or compromise scripture
00:05:03.500 because of the culture's resistance or hostility toward it.
00:05:08.060 Barna actually just released a study.
00:05:11.200 A friend of mine just text messaged me an image of this yesterday
00:05:14.460 when I was writing this.
00:05:17.260 It was a quote from the research project that Barna did recently.
00:05:22.560 50% of pastors said that they're nervous about offending people
00:05:27.620 by preaching on socially charged issues.
00:05:30.720 Okay, so they're nervous.
00:05:31.680 uh they ranked sexual issues especially related to the lgbtq as the number one issues of of
00:05:38.800 hesitancy which again sadly what we're seeing is that that in culture is influencing the church
00:05:46.440 more than church is influencing the culture and we're actually compromising the word of god
00:05:51.900 because of the fear of man and so that's coming um and the other thing in this little section that
00:05:58.160 I'm talking about expository teaching over topical teaching. One other thing is make sure
00:06:03.760 they're teaching out of formal equivalent Bibles or essentially literal Bibles is another way you
00:06:10.560 might have heard it. We did a podcast on this titled, Is Your Bible Translation Reliable and
00:06:17.700 Accurate? But the idea is that are they teaching out of the NASB, the King James, the New King
00:06:26.580 James, ESV, those are really the four common, RSV is another one, those are the four common
00:06:34.440 formal equivalent, meaning that they are word-for-word translations as best as possible
00:06:39.940 to the original Greek manuscripts, compared to teaching out of the message, or teaching
00:06:46.280 out of the NLT, or teaching out of the NIV, and so I just say, I look for pastors who are
00:06:52.000 teaching expository teachings generally the majority of the time and they're teaching out of
00:06:57.940 a formal equivalent bible meaning that they're looking for a word for word translation not a
00:07:03.000 thought for thought translation so that's point number one point number two biblical authority
00:07:09.400 over cultural celebrity so just because a pastor has the gifts of the spirit doesn't mean he has
00:07:16.200 the fruit of the spirit um never confuse spiritual giftedness with spiritual maturity
00:07:20.960 that's you see that all over the place today incredibly gifted people yeah super gifted
00:07:26.700 people but it doesn't mean that they're mature that are going in teaching the gospel and then
00:07:30.460 buying a lamborghini uh yep there are many captivating pastors who preach spiritual truths
00:07:36.500 they have um but they have failed to teach those truths themselves and jesus called these people
00:07:41.340 hypocrites um next point i would make is to look for churches who are centered around
00:07:47.080 a diversified group of biblically mature teachers 0.92
00:07:51.080 who are looking first to be faithful to the scripture
00:07:54.020 and not to please the hearts of man.
00:07:56.620 You kind of touched on that just a second ago.
00:07:58.760 Yeah, I mean, really is that you're looking for men,
00:08:02.600 pastors, elders who have biblical authority as their focus.
00:08:07.500 The authority comes from the word of God,
00:08:09.360 not cultural celebrity.
00:08:11.520 It's not really about them.
00:08:13.540 You're looking for pastors who have a humble character.
00:08:17.080 um, they're modest in their appearance, you know, dress nice, you know, wear a, wear a suit,
00:08:23.580 maybe wear, you know, collared shirt. Um, but when you see these pastors today wearing eccentric
00:08:29.440 fashion, um, like I see pastors that are wearing like on stage, they're wearing like, you know,
00:08:37.040 low cut shirts for guys with like a leather jacket and like jeans that are half ripped
00:08:45.620 and boots that are leather and and bracelets and necklaces and like it's just so like weird
00:08:52.360 yeah it makes me think about um how the scripture i mean it's referring a lot to women but to be
00:08:58.960 modest in your apparel and not arranging the hair and wearing gold and it's it's talking about being
00:09:04.720 modest yeah look at me look at me a man's version of modesty i guess yeah and it's it's really
00:09:09.400 parroting the culture it's not showing kind of a difference in culture being holy which is
00:09:14.260 separate from the culture set apart yeah set apart it's parroting the culture and it's um
00:09:21.020 it's just not focused on glorifying god it's focused on glorifying them
00:09:25.620 and that's really drawing the attention to me in my apparel and the way i dress and showing off
00:09:31.360 their gifting and showing off their gifting i've seen this too i've watched pastors that
00:09:35.840 the way they preach they like call back to themselves um and you know use this kind of
00:09:44.080 again eccentric way of you know like oh you're gonna make me you're gonna make me say this you're
00:09:50.020 gonna maybe says oh i'm gonna say it like i just go what are you talking about preach the word of
00:09:54.900 god and stick to the word of god and don't make it about you make it about god's preaching for
00:10:02.960 the edification of the saints um number three once you read it point number three small and
00:10:09.460 strong community over a big and loud community. So point number three, small and strong community
00:10:16.660 over a big and loud community. And that's what you're going to be looking for. That's the criteria
00:10:21.860 number three. And we have to remember that Jesus changed the world with 12 men.
00:10:28.160 Not 1,200, not 12,000, just with 12 guys. And he even had closer relationships with three.
00:10:34.680 science actually supports that our brains can only be intimate with up to 12 people
00:10:39.860 and that's a stretch that's like if you're single if you have you know you're married and you have
00:10:45.080 kids that takes up a few of those intimate relationships most people are intimate with
00:10:49.240 like three to five people where you're actually close with so the idea of just large is not really
00:10:56.220 conducive to how god designed our brains to interact relationally and the new testament
00:11:02.940 is filled with these, this idea of one another's. There's over a hundred of them. The universal
00:11:09.020 doctrines that we hear, these one another's are to be played out on the street in our real lives,
00:11:15.000 in our real relationships. And it's very difficult to play out, confess your sins to one another and
00:11:21.660 pray for one another that you may be healed with somebody that you don't know because you're lost
00:11:26.620 in a crowd with 800 people like the scriptures themselves instruct doctrine that is
00:11:36.860 conducive for intimate settings and smaller groups you can't play out a majority of
00:11:46.680 the commands of scripture in large wide but not deep communities and so you just look at
00:11:54.360 that kind of stuff. How are you to fervently love 800 people? You know, as 1 Peter says,
00:12:00.200 to fervently love one another. How are you to do that when you don't even know them?
00:12:05.600 And so, again, size necessarily, we got to be really careful about this. This is why I think
00:12:10.460 one of the criteria, look for small and strong community over big and loud community.
00:12:16.360 um and uh you know you're not looking for consumer christianity if you're a biblical christian
00:12:25.300 you're looking for contributor christianity you're looking to be involved in relationships
00:12:30.700 and participatory relationships with other people the word in the in the greek for fellowship is
00:12:36.140 koinonia and it means participatory or reciprocating relationship to have jesus christ in
00:12:42.760 common and to participate with each other and you're not supposed to be there just to consume
00:12:48.540 and consume and consume and constantly be poured into and not have your share in ministry by
00:12:55.400 ministering to other people in the body yeah i love that and francis chance has a really good
00:12:59.840 quote he says going to church should be more like going to the gym and less like going to the movies
00:13:04.740 and i like that idea is that yeah it's it's not a consumer sport so yeah when you have
00:13:12.500 committed community you don't necessarily need the crowds um crowds aren't necessarily a bad thing
00:13:17.740 but they do make it easier for people to hide and make it more difficult for people to connect
00:13:22.420 and then it's amazing that churches all across america are aiming for the crowds but then they
00:13:28.440 wonder why nobody feels close because it's really hard to hide really easy to hide not hard really
00:13:33.600 easy to hide yeah well i mean look at our community right our community we have 10 12 families
00:13:38.320 and it's enough right like we're just like wow like you had a couple more families and it's like
00:13:43.200 it can be too much it almost feels like yeah and then we all gather for fellowship on sunday and
00:13:48.720 we sit down we're like we're so-and-so like we notice when people aren't there and sure enough
00:13:53.280 three or four people text that person hey are you running late should we wait for you or um
00:13:58.080 are you not coming this week and whatever you know they'll respond and we notice when people
00:14:02.540 aren't there yeah absolutely um ultimately find a church whose um overseers are looking to grow
00:14:09.540 deep uh grow more deep relations relations sorry yes um i lost tracking i think it's a typo
00:14:21.380 you're deep
00:14:28.900 more than they're looking to go wide
00:14:30.680 ready?
00:14:45.980 just pick up right there?
00:14:47.140 yeah ultimately
00:14:48.260 ultimately find a church whose overseers are looking to grow deep more than they're looking
00:14:55.780 to grow wide um dale and i would say that if the church has over 200 people and the leaders aren't
00:15:00.960 looking to immediately plant another church instead they're looking for a bigger building
00:15:05.740 then there's a good chance that they're focused on the numerical growth rather than the spiritual
00:15:13.880 growth yeah and again i'm not saying that every single church that's big is bad that's not what
00:15:19.660 i'm saying um you know the the there's there are fruitful communities that are big but generally
00:15:27.320 speaking like like i think what you said is when you have committed community you don't need the
00:15:32.740 crowds like crowds are great for evangelism's sake when you're going and doing an outreach event
00:15:38.600 crowds are good there but at the end of the day again the bible's doctrines are played out so well
00:15:48.040 in small and we're just seeing that in our own walk is that man we can actually fulfill those
00:15:54.760 things imagine trying to fulfill all the things that we do in other people's lives with with other
00:15:59.260 people who we don't really know it's just i think that's why so many people feel so distant from each
00:16:04.880 other. And so that's point number three. So I'm going to go through them real quick just as we
00:16:09.800 review. Number one criteria is expository teaching over topical teaching. Find an expository Bible
00:16:17.580 teacher. John MacArthur at Grace Fellowship or whatever, Grace to You is his show. But John
00:16:25.300 MacArthur has got a great church, and he's an expository teacher. And that's a good example.
00:16:31.000 it's a big church too so he doesn't fit all these criteria but it's an expository teacher
00:16:35.480 is john mccarthur perfect no but he is an expository teacher is he looking for biblical
00:16:41.080 authority over cultural celebrity yes i would say that john mccarthur is an example john piper was
00:16:46.640 an example biblical authority over cultural celebrity he actually was lifted to celebrity
00:16:51.660 in terms of the christian community but in a revered manner not in a like flashy flashy
00:16:57.800 matter yeah um and then again small and strong for small and strong not big and loud number four
00:17:05.280 is biblical elders over financial donors and this is something that we remember seeing when you're
00:17:14.700 in the big mega church world is the people who are on the the board yeah we lived in california
00:17:21.220 So generally, I mean, I think this carries all throughout the United States, but it was extra amplified in Orange County.
00:17:30.060 Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, so first, does the church have elders?
00:17:35.260 That's the first question you should be asking.
00:17:37.740 Second, are they qualified according to First Timothy chapter three and Titus chapter one?
00:17:41.780 Go read those passages of scripture and ask the people at the church, who are the elders and how are they chosen?
00:17:49.400 were they chosen because the guy owns a really great business and he makes a big donation to
00:17:54.520 the church or was it because he actually meets the qualifications according to scripture um
00:18:01.560 third are they actually involved in shepherding or is it just like some title with no responsibility
00:18:08.120 involved and that's how most i don't say most many churches in america are operating these days is
00:18:15.240 that um it's just a title in reality they're all surrounding the pastor who really is making the
00:18:22.040 decisions um i would just say you want overseas a plurality of elders is actually ideal that you
00:18:29.860 have many of them that are walking this way and actually have roles of shepherding and there are
00:18:35.680 rules for shepherding which we'll talk about here in a second uh fourth can you have dinner with
00:18:41.720 them. I just would never go to be a part of a biblical community that had elders that I couldn't 0.61
00:18:48.660 know because I couldn't actually know if they're actually elders. I want to be able to verify with
00:18:54.000 my own understanding that this man and woman are walking according to what the scriptures say they
00:19:00.140 should walk in order for them to have authority in my life according to what scripture says.
00:19:05.820 And so I'll give you an example of that.
00:19:08.080 Hebrews 13, 17 says,
00:19:11.560 Obey those who rule over you and be submissive,
00:19:14.220 for they watch out for your souls.
00:19:17.240 As those who must give an account,
00:19:19.320 let them do so with joy and not with grief,
00:19:22.580 for that would be unprofitable for you.
00:19:24.500 I mean, this is just one.
00:19:25.960 There's several scriptures on how you can approach an elder.
00:19:28.500 The scriptures say that you cannot bring a reviling accusation against an elder
00:19:32.220 unless you have two or three witnesses.
00:19:34.200 so there's like some biblical roles in terms of how we can relate to these men and women
00:19:41.340 and that's why I go is there elders are they qualified do they have responsibilities and
00:19:49.160 can you meet with them and that's a really important part if you want to find a real
00:19:53.300 biblical community and I would even say out of church as big as John MacArthur's there's definitely
00:19:57.920 elders there and I'm sure that you could go there and schedule a dinner and eventually get together
00:20:03.680 with some of them um and so i that's just one thing that another point point number four so
00:20:09.340 point number five discipleship over evangelism all right this is a big one because we've seen
00:20:17.840 this a lot and the church i think is almost universally adopted the wrong way um and i don't
00:20:26.820 i don't know if i want to call it the wrong way but the way that i'm the opposite of how i'm going
00:20:32.100 to teach it um so the western church has turned the internal meeting of the saints
00:20:39.120 uh into the external work of evangelism um this is seen over and over i mean you remember when
00:20:46.660 we were at southern california it was about evangelism that's what it's about um the
00:20:53.180 scriptures do not forbid evangelism from happening at the local church meeting um but it's not the
00:21:00.360 purpose it's never the purpose of the meeting is to evangelize and save at the meeting that's not
00:21:07.300 what you see in the meeting should be people that are already believers yes and they're there to
00:21:11.780 edify one another and to be equipped to go out and do the work of the ministry exactly and that's
00:21:17.440 you know um first corinthians chapter 14 talks about let all things be done for edification
00:21:22.420 again you can't edify somebody who isn't believing in jesus you can't even talk about the things of
00:21:28.640 scripture if they aren't believing in Jesus. And Ephesians 4 says that the purpose of the
00:21:34.340 weekly gathering is to edify believers, to do the work of the ministry. It's a place where we get
00:21:39.440 together so that we can be strengthened so that we can go out into the world and do our ministry
00:21:49.760 that the Lord has for us. I'm trying to think of that quote. I might pull it off my head here,
00:21:53.960 but there's always that quote that people say, oh, the church is a hospital for sinners.
00:21:58.640 And I go, no, no, no. The church is not a hospital for sinners. It's medical school for the saints. The world is the hospital. We go to church to be trained, to be edified, to be equipped so that we can go out into the world and do our ministry.
00:22:18.920 so evangelism is an outward ministry in scripture that's just how it's shown you never see an
00:22:25.840 example of christians in the bible inviting people to church to hear the gospel from someone else
00:22:30.460 that's just that's what churches do today but it has nothing to do with the bible of hey you go
00:22:38.280 invite some people to come to church and i'll preach the gospel for you at church that you just
00:22:44.500 don't see that in scripture the great commission even says go therefore and make disciples of all
00:22:50.100 nations it's the idea is that go out and go do that work and the reason i say this is because
00:22:56.440 when churches become seeker focused they typically become doctrinally unfocused it becomes centrally
00:23:03.800 about the seeker the spiritual milk becomes the central element and the spiritual meat which so
00:23:13.180 many christians are craving right now uh is only it's it's always pushed out to the small groups
00:23:17.620 and again you know you might get lucky where you have a really mature couple in your small group
00:23:23.140 but most small groups are just indicative of the maturity of the church and so ultimately in trying
00:23:32.300 to meet the needs of the lost many churches fail to meet the maturity need of the saved and that's
00:23:39.380 why in if you're looking for a church look for a church that is discipleship focused they can have
00:23:45.800 outreach things going on make sure that sunday meeting is not about centrally about evangelism
00:23:51.560 but it's about discipleship about bringing people deeper to a deeper understanding and knowledge of
00:23:56.860 jesus christ so that they can go evangelize the other 167 hours that week so okay point number six
00:24:07.380 family integrated over age segregated ministry so um dale and i believe that the bible instructs
00:24:14.600 parents to be the central source of spiritual maturity for their children and it's not something
00:24:19.580 we should be outsourcing if we are immature in this area um it's time for sorry i'm gonna start
00:24:26.420 that over again yeah it's fine you clicked it and it went over my thing um number six family
00:24:32.640 integrated over age segregated ministry um dale and i believe that the bible instructs parents to
00:24:37.660 be the central source of spiritual maturity for their children um and it's not something that
00:24:43.100 should be outsourced if we're immature in this area or in any area spiritually then it's time
00:24:48.300 for us to grow not to offload the work to a youth pastor yeah um in ephesians 6 or chapter 6 verse
00:24:55.380 4 it says fathers do not provoke your children to anger but bring them up in the discipline and
00:25:00.500 instruction of the lord um there's actually a whole website that will help you find a church
00:25:05.820 that integrates the family into the main service and it's um ncfic.org which stands for the national
00:25:12.580 center for family integrated churches um it's actually a really good website and it's really
00:25:16.940 well done so people always think like oh my gosh there's not i'm never gonna be able to find a
00:25:21.040 church that doesn't have like super youth ministry focused i want you know but there are there's
00:25:26.020 actually hundreds of churches that are adopting a biblical perspective of family integrated versus
00:25:33.140 age segregated. Actually just quick side note I actually did some insta stories of what our
00:25:38.160 gathering looks like for fellowship on Sundays and the number one response direct message I got back
00:25:44.820 was I love that the kids are there I love that the kids are with you guys. Yeah it's definitely
00:25:49.120 something that people are craving. It is and you know what it does require is that when the kids
00:25:54.800 are there, it requires that your children are behaved. And because it's pretty evident if your
00:26:04.280 children don't know how to listen when they're trying to sit in the middle of a meeting, a lot
00:26:07.980 of parents don't know how to train their kids. And so they're just stoked to offload them on Sunday
00:26:13.600 as babysitting so they can go focus at church. That's kind of the perspective. It's the wrong
00:26:18.740 perspective to have but it's it's the perspective yeah and we're not saying that youth ministry is
00:26:25.420 unbiblical we're just saying that it's extra biblical um it's not in the bible and it generally
00:26:30.440 supports a parenting posture that is unbiblical as well as you mentioned yeah um there's also an
00:26:35.840 article on our website titled is youth ministry biblical or is it an experiment that's hurting
00:26:40.860 the church go check that out on relearnchurch.org yes and at the bottom of that article there's
00:26:47.180 a really good documentary on youth ministry. And, um, it's just really well done. It's probably
00:26:54.800 like eight or 10 years old now. Um, but I just really appreciated, uh, that documentary. You
00:26:59.920 might want to watch it. Um, number seven. So we have the, the, this is the last of the list and
00:27:04.720 then I'll go back and review it one more time. The seventh criteria is a focus on fruitfulness
00:27:11.300 over productiveness and so look and again it might take you a couple times
00:27:17.360 going to a gathering to determine if a church is actually fruitful what were
00:27:22.260 you thinking you're about to laugh I saw that it says fruitfulness over
00:27:26.440 productiveness and I said I was thinking in my head fruitfulness over
00:27:29.620 production oh yeah over production is that's a great point because yeah I mean
00:27:34.880 the church that Veronica and I went to that she was going to before
00:27:39.560 uh we got married man that production was serious it was we also went to another church though
00:27:46.040 together that was just just as ridiculous equally as insane in the production like i'm talking
00:27:51.060 hundreds of thousands of dollars of like media equipment tigers on stage tigers on stages like 0.52
00:27:56.940 girls you know spinning off the off the ceiling because of a concert that they're doing for jesus
00:28:04.220 it was crazy um anyways yeah back to productiveness uh we can confuse spiritual activity
00:28:13.240 with spiritual fruitfulness so we think just because we're doing a lot of things for jesus
00:28:18.340 that they're actually yielding fruit um you know just because we have a lot of programs because
00:28:23.920 we have a lot of schedules a lot of ministries that are going on doesn't necessarily mean that
00:28:28.180 they're actually fruitful and we need to be watching out for fruitfulness because jesus
00:28:32.200 says that we'll know a good tree by its fruit we'll know people by their fruit i mean this is
00:28:37.620 something we should be examining each other if the divorce rates are the same if the pornography
00:28:41.920 rates are the same if people are getting drunk on the weekends and using ridiculous language and
00:28:47.500 talking about things they shouldn't watch and game of thrones is popular like if those things are
00:28:51.560 happening then yeah that's not a fruitful church um as a whole like you got to just keep an eye out
00:28:59.340 for fruitfulness, for a people that are holy,
00:29:01.980 for a people that are trying.
00:29:03.720 Now, there's grace.
00:29:04.740 We're not perfect,
00:29:05.640 but there's a church that's trying to be holy
00:29:08.200 and trying to walk out the scriptures.
00:29:11.840 Their heart is yielded to scripture.
00:29:13.760 Yes, you want to find that.
00:29:15.580 And again, you're not going to find that
00:29:16.760 at a church that's not expository teaching,
00:29:19.780 that's teaching through the word of God.
00:29:22.680 And instead, evaluate if people there are wise,
00:29:27.120 as Veronica said,
00:29:27.800 their understanding of scripture they're just wise people wise families look at the children
00:29:33.160 are they well behaved are they is there really good parents are the marriages intact are the
00:29:39.240 relationships healthy is there correction and exhortation and admonition and rebuke and church
00:29:47.000 discipline like you're looking for these things that are all a part of the scriptures and just
00:29:51.520 to see if like those kind of things exist and it's hard to see in a massive community but when you're
00:29:55.900 in a small community with 150 people at a small church these things are pretty quick to evaluate
00:30:00.360 you can see this over a couple a couple weeks and just because you just mentioned that I
00:30:04.980 completely agree with everything that you shared but I'd also want to be cautious if you're the
00:30:10.320 type of person that is over critical sure somebody's child acts out one time who knows
00:30:16.080 maybe they're two years old and they're in the training stage of life sure or you had a one-off
00:30:22.240 moment with your husband where you started bickering or something because there are those
00:30:26.840 people out there and they're oh there's that one thing I'm not going to that church yeah it's better
00:30:31.580 for you to be going somewhere than nowhere it is and and I would say make sure that yeah you're
00:30:36.160 looking for themes patterns in people's lives yeah and you're looking for generally this theme
00:30:42.780 in leadership is the leadership going uh trying to teach because yeah I mean you you definitely
00:30:48.960 can hold the pastor accountable for the state of the flock um that's what you do for shepherds if
00:30:55.320 the flock is mangy and ugly and broken down and sick um you don't look at the other sheep you
00:31:01.580 look at the shepherd and find out what's going on there and so um another thing i'll say is for
00:31:07.260 fruitfulness over productiveness is are they in debt are they raising money in donations to go
00:31:13.980 into debt to go buy a building. That's just one big red flag. You cannot teach on money as a church
00:31:21.260 if the church itself is in debt. That's just hypocritical. You have no biblical authority 0.98
00:31:27.040 to speak on those matters if you yourself are actually in debt on that. And so I know there's
00:31:33.280 controversial views of that, but I mean specifically the church needs to be of a higher level of
00:31:37.740 accountability on matters like this because they are setting the standard for what the scriptures
00:31:44.200 teach. And at the end of the day, we should all be looking to create the most biblically accurate
00:31:52.060 expressions of church. That's what we're looking for. You're looking for a biblically accurate
00:31:57.560 expression of church that'll lead you to a more fruitful expression of Christian living. That's
00:32:04.960 what you're what you're really looking for and we have to remember that global saturation this idea
00:32:10.380 of taking the gospel to the far places of the ends of the earth always begins with local fruitfulness
00:32:17.160 so if you want to talk about all the ministry that we could do and all the things that need
00:32:21.240 to get done none of that happens unless there's local faithfulness so it can't be true universally
00:32:26.940 if it's not true locally and that's why it's really important that you're looking for churches
00:32:31.320 that are true locally all this stuff's true locally so um let's go back through it real quick
00:32:38.340 um you want to read them number one expository teaching over topical teaching
00:32:43.760 two biblical authority over cultural celebrity three small and strong community over a big
00:32:52.380 and loud community number four biblical elders over financial donors five discipleship over
00:32:59.540 evangelism six family integrated over age segregated ministry and the last point seven
00:33:06.280 was faithfulness over productiveness and what she meant to say was fruitfulness over productiveness
00:33:11.780 but faithfulness works too um so yeah so we have these seven and again as veronica mentioned if
00:33:17.640 you get like five of the seven that's good we should all be aiming for seven out of seven on
00:33:22.400 this in terms of looking for a church i would hold our church our gathering accountable to all
00:33:26.920 seven of these things here, to making sure that we're walking those things out. And again, there
00:33:34.100 are still many great Bible-focused church gatherings around the country and around the world. You just
00:33:41.980 do have to go find them. And the more you get into cities, it seems like the less you'll find
00:33:47.820 them they become more and more rare um and uh our hope is eventually in 2020 uh to put together a
00:33:57.900 a national locator of biblical house churches that you could find and become a part of uh it's
00:34:07.540 all going to be a part of a plan that we're doing for a church planting school so there's lots of
00:34:11.860 stuff going on here and the reason i say that is because um if you guys feel so inclined or you
00:34:17.540 feel like the spirit's leading you to do this uh your financial donation is really helpful and the
00:34:23.700 lord will provide for his work and so i'm not worried about it one bit that's one thing we
00:34:28.480 learned this last year we didn't have it i didn't have we were both down sick for so long i couldn't
00:34:34.240 work much and the lord just continued to take care of the ministry so but if you do feel inclined
00:34:40.320 we have some of these big vision ideas building out the website to do that functionality building
00:34:46.580 out a church planting curriculum it's not something that's a one-man show we need lots
00:34:51.060 of theological minds around that building out 150 000 square foot building to host workshops
00:34:55.820 i'm just kidding yeah no no we're talking about an online curriculum that we can build to uh make
00:35:03.760 it accessible for people all around the world so that they can build up a um the the knowledge to
00:35:10.720 plant house churches wherever they're at and so if you feel so inclined we would um we would
00:35:16.420 appreciate that and we promise to be faithful with those funds uh to direct them towards the
00:35:21.580 past that the lord has put before us so on that note until next week we will see you guys next
00:35:29.100 week on real christianity take care