Dale Partridge - October 03, 2018


Ultimate Marriage #13： 4 Threats To The Christian Marriage & How To Confront Them


Episode Stats


Length

45 minutes

Words per minute

166.19315

Word count

7,507

Sentence count

284

Harmful content

Misogyny

29

sentences flagged

Toxicity

10

sentences flagged

Hate speech

30

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Welcome to Ultimate Marriage. Today we are going to be talking about
00:00:13.760 mother-in-laws, divorce, children, and sex. Fantastic topics. Controversial topics, 0.69
00:00:22.880 but we're going to talk about them today. Today we're going to be answering more questions. We've
00:00:26.780 gotten so many questions sent to us that were at the point of almost not asking for questions
00:00:34.280 anymore because we have so many good questions. We've got a lot that we can get to. And so today
00:00:38.800 we just thought we would tackle some more questions. There used to be a show that I watched
00:00:42.680 or I didn't watch. I listened to 10 years ago called Pastor's Perspective. I feel like I
00:00:48.360 remember that name. Yeah, it was on K-Wave in Southern California. And I really enjoyed it
00:00:53.780 because it was common questions with the pastor's perspective from the scriptures.
00:00:58.140 And Chuck Smith was one of the guys that was always on the show, and I think Brian Broderson.
00:01:03.160 But I really appreciated the answers years ago, and I thought, you know what, this is probably the same thing,
00:01:08.060 where we have a pastor's perspective on these matters, and that's what we're going to talk about today.
00:01:14.700 So a couple things before we get started.
00:01:16.960 If you guys are watching us on YouTube, you might see a few moths flying in here because we can't kill them.
00:01:24.420 They're too fast.
00:01:25.800 I told Dale this is the reason why we can't have high ceilings.
00:01:28.800 He loves high ceilings.
00:01:30.160 I do.
00:01:30.920 And I kind of like the coziness of the lower ceilings.
00:01:33.680 But it is, yeah, there's a couple of moths in here.
00:01:35.440 So if they're in your camera shot, you know, don't worry about it.
00:01:37.900 And if you're listening to this as a podcast, know that we have a video version of this available for you on YouTube.
00:01:44.180 You just search Ultimate Marriage and you'll find us there on YouTube.
00:01:48.180 If you guys have not left a review yet on iTunes, I believe we just recently passed over a thousand reviews on iTunes.
00:01:57.520 That's crazy.
00:01:58.080 So if you guys would be willing, again, just to tap the stars, if you haven't left a review and you're a regular listener of the show, you don't even need to write anything.
00:02:05.300 Just tap the stars.
00:02:06.400 That would be a huge deal for us.
00:02:08.660 And it really does help the exposure of the show, the content.
00:02:11.980 we've had so many people find us on iTunes because iTunes puts us in the algorithm because
00:02:16.940 we have so many reviews. And so thank you for that. The last thing before we get started is
00:02:23.280 we host a program. It's a year-long program. We're actually considering making it into a 12-week
00:02:30.040 program instead of a 12-month program on how to build a biblical marriage. And we're in the first
00:02:36.240 version of that now, but we are going to open up registration for another version of it in the
00:02:42.880 beginning of next year. And so the list already has several hundred couples waiting on it,
00:02:48.700 and there's only space for maybe 200 to 250 couples. If you're interested in going on a
00:02:56.460 journey with us on deeper theology, deep interactions, activities, challenges,
00:03:02.440 um reading on what it means to have a biblical marriage um go to ultimate marriage.com forward
00:03:09.600 slash notify and just sign up with your first name email and phone number your cell phone number we
00:03:15.380 we're not going to spam you we're literally just going to use it just to notify you via text message
00:03:19.540 that hey registration's open um so on that note we're going to answer four questions today
00:03:25.340 and veronica is going to start us out and uh we'll hopefully give the bible's perspective and not
00:03:33.980 ours all righty question number one which we have gotten a lot my husband's mother is because
00:03:42.300 is because oh my goodness sorry i always get so tongue-tied it's okay anyway question number one
00:03:49.740 my husband's mother is coming between us and causing us to fight often what kind of boundaries
00:03:54.820 does the bible discuss about this issue okay first how many people have we walked this out with oh
00:04:01.700 like i feel like it's like almost every other couple yeah there's so many one in three people
00:04:06.660 or something like i mean that's not an actual statistic but it feels like it is and it's in
00:04:10.900 varying degrees yeah you know sometimes just like the mom that's kind of annoying the mother-in-law
00:04:15.300 is kind of annoying then it's like the mother-in-law that we got a divorce over yeah you know which we
00:04:20.180 We know both of those situations.
00:04:24.440 I'm going to lead out on this.
00:04:26.480 Veronica is going to tackle question number two.
00:04:30.580 So yeah, a mother-in-law coming in between husband and wife, a very common thing.
00:04:37.800 What does the Bible say about it?
00:04:39.340 So first I want to give you guys some context.
00:04:40.960 A lot of mothers, because of a lack of emotional connection or her emotional needs not being met by her husband, they actually form what I call a parasitical love for their child.
00:05:03.860 Meaning that they actually, because they're not getting their needs met from their husband, they begin to form this weird parasitical love, like a parasite, with their sons.
00:05:16.000 And they look for the fulfillment that they should be getting from their husband in their sons.
00:05:22.280 And they build this very unhealthy, she builds this very unhealthy connection with her son.
00:05:29.820 And this is the great cause of mother-in-law problems 1.00
00:05:36.260 Because when the wife comes around 0.96
00:05:38.640 As the son gets older 0.99
00:05:40.600 And starts dating
00:05:41.780 And he has a wife
00:05:43.100 The mother actually 0.57
00:05:45.220 Whether she realizes it or not 1.00
00:05:47.180 Looks to this new wife 1.00
00:05:50.540 As an adulteress 1.00
00:05:51.700 Stealing her son 1.00
00:05:53.540 As if she's the other woman 1.00
00:05:55.340 Yeah 1.00
00:05:56.080 Stealing her son away from her
00:05:59.820 because she's actually getting her husband's fulfillment through him and uh it's really
00:06:06.420 gross and so i think a lot of you guys are probably listening shaking your heads and going
00:06:10.860 oh my gosh that's that's us um sadly um but a couple things i want to just declare
00:06:17.980 what the scriptures teach on the matter of parents um implementing their anything on
00:06:27.380 married couples so on your wedding day is your wedding day is a declaration to everybody
00:06:33.340 that the old covenant that was between you and your parents because there's a covenant relationship
00:06:39.280 there i mean you are in a birth like god orchestrated relationship yeah god orchestrated
00:06:46.840 relationship exactly um that's a good way to put it babe good work um thanks and
00:06:52.660 it's the end of that God-orchestrated
00:06:55.820 relationship and
00:06:57.680 you're leaving it and what it says in
00:06:59.740 Genesis 2 is leaving and
00:07:01.860 cleaving to your wife 0.99
00:07:03.200 you are cleaving into a new 0.89
00:07:05.560 covenant relationship which is another 0.92
00:07:07.540 God-ordained or
00:07:09.740 God-created relationship
00:07:11.500 and so the leaving and cleaving
00:07:13.580 the declaration is that everybody's on the
00:07:15.700 outside looking in at this point
00:07:16.960 while you respect your parents
00:07:20.060 you still
00:07:22.100 have hopefully a healthy relationship with them yeah it has to be that though a healthy relationship
00:07:28.060 yeah there are boundaries with that relationship while there are not boundaries inside of your
00:07:34.780 marriage um and that's a bigger topic but i'm talking in the sense of oneness um we're not to
00:07:41.260 have those type of boundaries different topic for a different day um don't misinterpret that
00:07:46.220 um for my one sentence there but the um that is a declaration leaving and cleaving so that is what
00:07:55.120 you are to do now building boundaries on it it is the husband's job to set up the boundaries
00:07:59.880 for his family and in my opinion for even the wife's family to establish in love uh like
00:08:08.540 any unhealthy relationship that's occurring,
00:08:12.480 any importing of their unsolicited advice
00:08:17.180 or influence that's causing threat to your marriage 0.89
00:08:20.880 needs to be eradicated
00:08:22.640 and the husband should lead that out. 1.00
00:08:24.940 Doesn't mean the wife can't. 0.95
00:08:27.840 A wife can easily say, 1.00
00:08:30.980 hey, if you treat my husband this way, 1.00
00:08:34.320 you treat me that way.
00:08:36.500 Because that's what's going on
00:08:37.720 is that it's oneness when, let's just say a mother-in-law insults the daughter-in-law. 1.00
00:08:46.640 It's not just an insult to your wife. 1.00
00:08:50.220 It's an insult to you because you're one. 0.99
00:08:52.760 An insult to her is an insult to you because we are one flesh.
00:08:56.160 Again, Genesis 2, we're going to talk about it again here.
00:08:59.980 And I believe it's what, Matthew 19.
00:09:03.640 So that's my take.
00:09:05.980 guys get down in a conversation with your parents and say if you can't respect my wife
00:09:15.160 we can't have relationship period you can't have access to our children you can't have access to
00:09:22.200 us until you know how to love my wife the way that you love me and vice versa for the wives
00:09:28.820 family if that's an issue any take on that no i think that's great okay next question
00:09:34.380 question number two
00:09:37.740 Veronica I think our marriage is suffering because of our two toddlers
00:09:42.260 maybe we don't know how to discipline or maybe this is just normal
00:09:45.680 any tips on parenting young children so the stress doesn't bleed into your
00:09:49.980 marriage
00:09:50.320 well first of all I get it I can totally
00:09:55.540 understand where you're coming from but the good news is is that
00:10:01.000 it doesn't have to be that way it doesn't have to be that way
00:10:04.020 Um, and you know, Dale and I have got, I mean, I guess technically Ari is not a toddler anymore, 0.99
00:10:10.680 but she's still pretty young. So we've got four and a half, two and a half and one. And so yeah,
00:10:18.160 we're totally in toddler stage. Um, and so I think the next important thing, uh, to remember as
00:10:26.740 believers and disciples to our children is to not get resentful of our children's behavior.
00:10:36.380 We, um, we need to remember that they're not sinning against you. They're not sinning against
00:10:41.540 us. They're sinning against God. Yeah. When they're disobedient, that's not, it's easy to
00:10:46.760 become like, you can't take it personal. You can't take it personal. And we actually do this in all
00:10:50.440 types of things. Like, you know, people, people sin and we get frustrated at their sin because it
00:10:55.580 like affects us which you know there's some validity there but they're not sinning against
00:10:59.600 us they're sinning against god and we need to have that context with our children right and it's
00:11:03.460 i think that when you remember that it takes the the emotion on the parent side kind of out of it
00:11:11.820 and you're refocused on on the heart issue yeah and so um there's so you know scripture um speaking
00:11:18.680 directly to children in the bible and that's ephesians 6 1 children obey your parents and
00:11:23.160 the Lord for this is right. Honor your father and mother, which is the first commandment with
00:11:26.940 promise that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth. So speaking to, I mean,
00:11:33.500 and you can actually have your children memorize that. If I ask Aria, um, Aria, what's Ephesians
00:11:37.560 six, one children obey your parents and the Lord. And so I'm like, yeah, you know, you can teach
00:11:42.200 your kids that, um, write it on their hearts. And so just a couple, I guess, reminders and
00:11:49.680 practical points to your question um i think one is it's like dale said it's not did you say this
00:11:56.080 i'm not i think we touched on it is it's not about winning just their obedience it's about
00:12:00.440 winning their heart yeah so i think what you're saying right now veronica is that you're giving
00:12:04.500 principles because it's hard to like give direct answer to a question like this yeah but because
00:12:10.280 it's broad it's broad yeah and so we need to give you guys just some some quick principles that have
00:12:15.160 really helped us parent young children um and these a lot of these are tips that we've just
00:12:21.440 gotten from our mentors yeah um and seeing them be fruitful in our life and see them be fruitful
00:12:26.200 in their lives as well yeah and our you know a lot of our friends parent very much the same way
00:12:31.900 and so um yeah we've just seen the fruit in our lives and their lives and so we just want to share
00:12:37.560 a couple of those tips Veronica keeps knocking her cup on the table um another thing to remember is
00:12:44.660 sorry i'll just put it away
00:12:46.820 discipline is about breaking their will without breaking their spirit
00:12:52.600 what does that mean explain that
00:12:54.740 you didn't do this to me um i feel like it's pretty self-explanatory um breaking their will
00:13:03.760 without breaking their spirit so you don't want to like lord over them and crush them
00:13:10.760 in order to get them to obey you yeah you want them to obey you because god wants them to obey
00:13:16.140 you yeah yeah and it's it's about getting their behavior and their heart and and it's pretty easy
00:13:24.020 to break a child's spirit you you could exasperate a child yeah and um and when it even says father's
00:13:32.200 just not not to do that um and so yeah i like that remember that quote guys is that um you know break
00:13:40.180 their will but don't break their spirit yeah um another thing to remember is little children
00:13:46.380 toddlers but young kids in general they thrive off of routine and consistency and so we need
00:13:53.140 to set them up for success if you've got church on sunday morning don't be out till 10 o'clock
00:14:00.540 at night saturday night at a friend's house with your kids like you're you're setting them up for
00:14:05.880 failure. And so when they act out on Sunday morning, when you're trying to get them to
00:14:10.100 settle down because we're at church, um, you just have to remember, did you set them up for success
00:14:16.060 or not? And even as you're going into church, setting the expectations of, you know, just
00:14:21.360 taking 30 seconds and saying, Hey guys, we're at church. And, um, how do we behave here? You know,
00:14:27.860 um, what they'd know the answers. Yeah. Repeat it back to you. Yeah. What's expected. Um, you know,
00:14:32.780 I know you guys, uh, are hungry and we're going to get a snack in a little while. So don't ask
00:14:37.000 about that. Like, you know, you can set those kinds of expectations that you want your kids
00:14:40.940 to win. And so routine consistency, setting expectations, I think is a good. Yeah, exactly.
00:14:48.940 Um, one kind of rule of thumb that we go by is 90% affirmation, 10% discipline,
00:14:55.780 which means you need to create a lot of moments of encouragement, of affirmation of success.
00:15:01.660 again um training moments set up training opportunities so like we just got an off
00:15:07.520 road little off-roading ranger vehicle or something something like that and um our son our middle son
00:15:14.280 honor is obsessed with it he wants to go on a ride on that thing every minute of the day if he could
00:15:19.260 and so if i know that honor is struggling with helping clean up the playroom i know ahead of
00:15:28.840 time that i can use this tool um the the ranger is a training tool and i'll say okay honor let's
00:15:37.340 clean up the toys um and you know if he cleans them up right away awesome you did so good let's
00:15:42.120 go right let's go for a ride on the ranger yep but if he grumbles about it the whole time okay
00:15:48.440 buddy you know what i'm sorry we're still gonna have to kind of there but we don't get to go right
00:15:52.520 on the ranger yeah and so just set up these training moments um and but mostly try and set
00:16:00.440 them up for success and so they they can have that feeling of winning and overly celebrate
00:16:05.260 when they're especially when they're really young because we're talking about toddlers here
00:16:07.980 overly celebrate like good job you did it you know like yeah like i mean valor's just entering this
00:16:16.360 stage um well not really yet honor's old enough now but when he was younger honor go throw your
00:16:24.000 diaper away in the trash okay so he'd walk over you know toddle over and throw his diaper in the
00:16:28.200 trash we'd clap good job it's like this huge deal and he was just so proud of himself and now he
00:16:34.480 just does it without even thinking about it yeah and so yeah looking for opportunities throughout
00:16:38.780 the day because i'll tell you it's hard when you're training toddlers to come up with 90
00:16:43.680 percent affirmation 10 it very much feels the opposite where it's like 90 discipline 10
00:16:48.560 percent affirmation if you're not really intentional about it you'll never get there
00:16:52.840 and if you only get 60 and 40 you know you're gonna have days like that yeah for sure so just
00:16:59.100 work hard on that yeah have grace with yourself yeah um and then um a little phrase that we say
00:17:06.380 that um i got out of a parenting book that i'll share with you here shortly is we obey right away
00:17:12.400 all the way and with a happy heart. And the kids know this. Like, it's just, it's said in our house
00:17:16.820 all the time. Right away, all the way with a happy heart. How are you supposed to obey? Right away,
00:17:22.220 all the way with a happy heart. Yeah, and why do we, I mean, we demand that from our children
00:17:27.940 because that's what God demands from us. When God asks us in scripture to do something,
00:17:33.120 he wants us to do it right away, all the way, and with a happy heart. And so we don't expect
00:17:38.940 things from our children that god doesn't expect from us we are training our children
00:17:42.220 so that they can it's a parallel relationship ultimately they're learning how to they'll never
00:17:48.940 be able to obey god if they don't know how to obey their parents and so you are training them
00:17:53.140 to obey god and a disobedient child to his parents will become a disobedient adult to god
00:17:57.780 that is very much a real thing yeah so another training tool that we use is blanket time um i
00:18:05.060 feel like we may have touched on this before if you aren't familiar with blanket time i wrote a
00:18:08.380 blog posts on it a long time ago, veronicapartridge.com, probably about a year ago now, but it's up
00:18:13.900 there. I don't know, probably a few posts back. I only blog like once a year, so it's on there.
00:18:19.940 But blanket time is, I especially have a husband that has a just typical nine to five type of job.
00:18:26.660 He's out of the, he's out of the house for work. And when he comes home, all you've done all day
00:18:31.000 is talk to toddlers and you're just desperate for this adult interaction, especially from your
00:18:34.980 spouse um that's a great time to pull out the blanket hey blanket time come sit on your blanket
00:18:40.760 kids go run together blanket or you set them set them up on the blanket throw a couple toys down
00:18:45.220 and they're there for as long as you want them there and you can have a face-to-face conversation
00:18:49.860 without constantly being interrupted with your husband and just talk about the day um so that's
00:18:55.500 a good way um yeah read the article because it just talks in detail about what that what that
00:18:59.680 looks like yeah and um and then our my two favorite parenting books i know one of them is
00:19:06.820 dale's um dale's favorite parenting book as well as shepherding a child's heart by ted trip ted
00:19:12.600 trip yep and then um don't make me count to three by ginger hubbard that's a really great one for
00:19:20.020 especially if you have toddlers and practical it's very practical um really good tips really
00:19:25.980 good um ways to ask the right questions um in probing your child's heart um and then another
00:19:33.600 one is parenting by paul david trip and then just remember you know you say that you feel like your
00:19:40.440 marriage is suffering because you're two toddlers all training tips aside i mean obviously try and
00:19:46.100 implement those as much as you can but just remember your marriage is a priority you have
00:19:50.940 to make it a priority yeah regardless of if you have toddlers and you're tired or not yeah you're
00:19:55.660 not in a covenant relationship the way that you are in your marriage like your priority is is your
00:20:01.980 marriage if your marriage is struggling your children are going to really struggle yeah it's
00:20:07.840 just like part of parenting yeah part of parenting is having a healthy marriage first yep absolutely
00:20:13.620 yeah so that's a that's a great great way to end that um that question so we're going to go
00:20:18.640 in here to question number three. All right. So next question. It's a big one, but I have a heavy
00:20:27.120 question. Is divorce ever justified in scripture? Okay. So I've been getting this question a lot
00:20:35.720 and I've wanted to, I guess, discuss this question, but it takes a lot to discuss this
00:20:44.140 question um it's hard to do in like a portion of a podcast mini teaching yeah so i'm going to give
00:20:50.900 you just kind of the basics um the wise theologian will hold this doctrine with confidence not with
00:20:56.000 certainty because there are you know two or three camps of interpretation by valid you know
00:21:04.160 theologians by valid godly christian men and women um i will tell you the camp in which that i
00:21:12.060 subscribe to because I think it is the most literal camp to scripture. I would say most
00:21:19.120 conservative theologians would land the plane in the same camp that I'm going to discuss.
00:21:25.880 I'm not white-knuckled over here, like where I'm like holding on to this as if like I'm completely
00:21:30.920 right. There's a lot of conversations of vagueness around this in the scriptures, but I think that I
00:21:41.060 can with confidence say that I do believe the scriptures are saying this, and I'm going to
00:21:47.720 explain that. The Bible groups, the Bible groups up divorce, the conversation of divorce into three
00:21:53.800 groups, and you see this in Matthew 19, 1 Corinthians 7, some other places, that really
00:21:58.800 there's the marriage between the Christian and the Christian, that's one group, the marriage
00:22:04.720 between the Christian and the non-Christian, that's the other group, and then the marriage
00:22:09.660 between two non-Christians, and so there's three groups that marriage confronts. We're going to 0.90
00:22:14.600 talk about the first two today, and I want to remind you guys that in Malachi 2, God declares
00:22:24.020 that he hates divorce, so let's just preface the entire conversation with that, is that God hates
00:22:30.180 divorce. That's a fact. It's beyond him saying that. It is generally taught through even the
00:22:40.000 Gospels that God's not a fan of divorce. He hates it. And so, do we want to do something that God
00:22:47.100 hates? That's a question you need to ask yourself. So, I'm going to read you what Jesus says about
00:22:52.740 the matter. And so, if we're going to be followers of Jesus, then I think that you'd like to
00:22:59.640 subscribed to his teaching on the matter, and I've studied this, I would say, in detail. I've taught
00:23:06.580 on this in a sermon format at church. I've walked couples through this conversation, so I've done an
00:23:13.160 extensive study. I've looked at the original language, the original context, and I'm going to
00:23:18.820 give you what I've come up with. So in Matthew 19, 3 through 9, Jesus says,
00:23:25.280 And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking,
00:23:31.200 Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?
00:23:35.220 He answered, Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female?
00:23:41.540 And said, Therefore, this is he's referencing scripture.
00:23:44.760 Therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.
00:23:50.800 So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
00:23:53.620 What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.
00:23:57.760 Verse 7, they said to him, why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and send her away?
00:24:04.660 He's probably referring to Deuteronomy 4, I believe.
00:24:08.740 In verse 8, he said to them, because of your hardness of heart, Moses allowed you to divorce your wives.
00:24:14.920 But from the beginning, it was not so.
00:24:18.780 Verse 9,
00:24:19.840 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife except for sexual immorality
00:24:23.940 and marries another commits adultery.
00:24:27.720 Okay, you've got to really spend some time studying the Scripture,
00:24:30.880 looking at commentaries.
00:24:32.300 And I would look at commentaries for this Scripture that are not modern.
00:24:37.720 I want to know how the Church interpreted this passage of Scripture 1900 and behind.
00:24:44.120 and because you get kind of you get to pull off the the like the the modernity of of the
00:24:51.740 interpretation and um you get to see how did the church interpret this in the 1700s and the 1600s
00:24:58.280 and the 1500s and the 1400s and you can go all the way back to john calvin's interpretation of
00:25:02.500 this stuff and look at it um and i share the same interpretation as yeah spurgeon and john calvin
00:25:09.240 and john gill and matthew henry and adam clark and some of these great guys that are out there so
00:25:12.920 So a couple of things I want you to note as we're going through this.
00:25:18.640 One is that, you know, the Pharisees came up to him and he answered, have you not read?
00:25:22.400 He said to the Pharisees because he's knowing that the Pharisees have read.
00:25:26.420 So he's being like facetious with them.
00:25:28.700 Like, have you not read?
00:25:29.980 Like, you know, kind of shaming them a bit.
00:25:33.460 Like, do you guys not know what's going on in the scriptures, even though you say that you read them all the time?
00:25:37.720 But this statement that he says is because of your hardness of heart, Moses allowed you.
00:25:42.100 he made a concession. Moses made a concession because of your hardness of heart. But from the
00:25:46.640 beginning is what Jesus says, it was not so. God did not ever want to permit divorce. It was because
00:25:53.560 the hardness of heart that Moses allowed you, but it was not so from the beginning. And the big
00:25:59.220 wrench that's thrown into everybody's spokes is this last line, and it's talked about in 1 Corinthians
00:26:05.100 7 as well. Whoever divorces his wife except for sexual immorality and marries another commits
00:26:11.100 adultery. So in the case of adultery, if you study this passage, Jesus permits divorce, but he does
00:26:22.620 not permit remarriage. And this is talking in the case of two Christians. This is even probably more
00:26:29.320 edified in that position if you look at 1 Corinthians chapter 7. But he doesn't, so while
00:26:37.500 christ permits the divorce he does not permit the remarriage and while he permits it he definitely
00:26:44.380 doesn't prefer it and he absolutely does not command it and so it is an option if you can't
00:26:50.820 work things out for the sake of peace but it doesn't give you the right for remarriage if
00:26:56.280 you're in a christian marriage when god hates divorce so his heart is for reconciliation
00:27:01.440 and restoration. Yes. And so God calls us, the Lord calls us to model our marriages after
00:27:09.200 the relationship between Christ and his bride, the church. And how many times has the church
00:27:15.640 committed adultery on the Lord? A lot. And how many times has the Lord taken us back?
00:27:23.400 A lot. Countless. Countless and forevermore. And so we are to model that. And that's a tough,
00:27:29.900 thing to do. I'm not going to say that that's an easy conversation to have.
00:27:36.300 Now, if you and your spouse
00:27:37.660 were Christian, got divorced, and are now 0.54
00:27:41.860 remarried, you know, the scriptures
00:27:45.960 would teach in this perspective that you're committing adultery. Now, 1.00
00:27:50.540 does that mean that you can't be forgiven for it?
00:27:53.840 I don't think so. I don't think that would line up with the theology of the Bible.
00:27:58.280 I do think that you should prayerfully look at this scripture.
00:28:03.280 And if you do feel convicted on, man, maybe I've made the wrong decision, to repent.
00:28:10.960 Now, to ask for forgiveness, does that mean you could divorce your new spouse?
00:28:15.780 No, I don't think so.
00:28:19.160 It's a mess that the Lord can mop up.
00:28:21.420 The Lord can make all things new.
00:28:24.600 But I do think that the Lord looks at the heart.
00:28:27.540 And, um, I always say this, this, this quote is that where scripture is clear, God's going to
00:28:34.800 look at our actions. Uh, where scripture is obscure, the Lord's going to look at our heart.
00:28:39.580 And so, um, look at your heart. Now in the matter, um, I'm going to answer this last thing,
00:28:44.720 and then we'll kind of close off this question and go to the next one. In the matter of one
00:28:48.620 Christian spouse and one non-Christian spouse, there's a little bit of a different doctrine
00:28:52.900 delivered in 1 Corinthians 7, and I'm going to read that scripture.
00:28:59.820 Paul says, but to the rest, I, not the Lord say, meaning this is new revelation.
00:29:07.020 When he says, I, not the Lord say, it means that he just said what the Lord said
00:29:13.020 in the verses prior to that, which is about what I just said in Matthew 19.
00:29:16.320 He referenced that passage, and he's saying, but now Jesus didn't specifically
00:29:21.440 talk about this matter, and I'm going to give you the Lord's position on the matter. And he says,
00:29:27.940 but to the rest, I, not the Lord, say, if any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she
00:29:33.420 is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. And a woman who has a husband who does not
00:29:38.040 believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband 0.98
00:29:42.620 is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband. Otherwise, 0.99
00:29:45.860 your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. But if the unbeliever departs, let him 1.00
00:29:52.180 depart. A brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace.
00:30:02.620 So I want to talk about that, but I realized I forgot one thing that I should mention.
00:30:06.540 When it says, except for sexual immorality in the previous piece that I talked about,
00:30:10.460 I want to mention is that if you look at that, it's talking arguably specifically about adultery.
00:30:18.120 So if your spouse commits fornication with another person and breaks the oneness of the marriage bed,
00:30:25.480 not like I kissed another person, not like I got caught sexting another woman.
00:30:30.940 It's talking about intercourse. 0.66
00:30:32.200 It's talking about intercourse.
00:30:33.200 And so that is the permission from Jesus to divorce, but not the permission for remarriage.
00:30:40.460 for divorce is an adultery again I just forgot to mention that so I'm going to pull back to
00:30:47.060 what I was talking about with Paul's writing when he says this line down here at the bottom but if 0.67
00:30:51.560 the unbeliever departs let him depart a brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases
00:30:57.200 my interpretation of this is that if you're a believer and the spouse that's the other party 0.91
00:31:05.480 that's not a believer and they just eventually leave you because they can't handle your
00:31:11.120 Christian-ness and your morality or whatever. And they just, they just leave you. I don't think the
00:31:18.840 Lord is going to force you to sit and wait for decades for them to come back. I believe what
00:31:26.060 this passage is saying is that you are not under bondage to the wedding vows any longer.
00:31:32.520 and that you are free to remarry.
00:31:37.920 Now, I'm going to give you some principles on that.
00:31:41.560 The first, the believing spouse,
00:31:44.280 you should never be the one that's leaving
00:31:46.260 because your husband or wife is sanctified by you.
00:31:50.400 And what that means is that they're getting a chance
00:31:52.000 to be around the church, being around God's truth,
00:31:54.860 whether they believe or not.
00:31:56.520 And your children are holy because of that as well
00:31:58.880 in terms of they are separate.
00:32:00.540 but the desire to remarry if that is the case should not be something to be taken lightly or
00:32:07.660 quickly you should be heartbroken about the fact that your spouse has left if you're the believing
00:32:12.960 party and even spend a season in prayer that the lord would bring them back and what a redemption
00:32:18.800 story that would be so can't you know divorce in the church again i think that we haven't taught
00:32:24.640 specifically what the scriptures say i think we've made a lot of compromises in this this doctrine
00:32:29.980 to make people feel comfortable in the church.
00:32:34.120 You know, if you're in a Christian marriage
00:32:35.880 with two believing parties,
00:32:39.260 born-again Christians, 0.98
00:32:41.420 you know, the only rights,
00:32:43.460 from my understanding, to get a divorce 0.99
00:32:45.080 is fornication, sexual adultery. 0.95
00:32:48.320 And do you get to get remarried? 0.98
00:32:49.820 As long as they're living,
00:32:51.300 I don't think you do.
00:32:52.700 That's my take on the passage.
00:32:54.460 You don't have to agree with me.
00:32:55.620 You can study it for yourself,
00:32:56.920 but that's where a majority of the great theologians of times past have also landed on that matter
00:33:04.700 so not like a not a light topic yeah it's heavy but good it's good to hear i've heard it several
00:33:12.800 times before you teach on it and talk about it but every time you do teach on it it's still like
00:33:17.620 another lesson for me a refresher so it's good to hear cool next question our last question number
00:33:24.680 four sex is often one of the biggest stumbling blocks in a marriage the bible teaches us that
00:33:30.760 my flesh is his flesh and his flesh is my flesh but in reality sex is complicated generally
00:33:35.880 speaking men want sex way more than women do and rejection or one-sided sex creates scars that
00:33:42.360 seem to make sex more difficult as a wife how should i be looking at this so when i read this
00:33:48.980 question the first thing that comes to my mind is that we need to look at sex as a gift and a
00:33:56.760 blessing from god and not just a duty it's not just another chore and task that you need to
00:34:02.620 check off of your list but it's a blessing and it's a gift from god we need to treat it as such
00:34:07.340 um and then it's also god's way and god's design for husband and wife to achieve
00:34:17.860 ultimate connection and closeness that you can only achieve with your spouse and no one else
00:34:24.040 yeah we've vandalized sex in this culture so badly that we've forgotten what the invention
00:34:30.520 of sex is for it's for a husband and wife to experience ultimate unity and
00:34:41.360 that's what it is. It's a tool that the Lord has given us. It's a gift. It's a blessing.
00:34:49.480 Sex is a blessing. It's not a duty. It's not a chore. It's not something to lord over. It's not
00:34:54.400 something to push onto your wife. That's not what it's about. It's not about the sensuality 1.00
00:34:59.980 that the culture has made it about. Sure, are there some sensual, exciting parts that the Lord
00:35:07.000 has gifted us within the confines of a marriage bed? Sure. You get to enjoy the body of your
00:35:12.480 spouse. But it's not about the sensuality. It's about the connection. It's the holy moment.
00:35:19.980 Actually, lots of theologians have come to the same conclusion that heaven, orgasm between a
00:35:30.000 husband and wife, is a metaphor for heaven. Complete unity with Christ. And God is the
00:35:39.420 master of metaphor. And so I just think that he's teaching us that we want, you want heaven, you
00:35:45.740 want, you know, we want sex, but we don't want heaven. You know, it's amazing just some of these, 0.88
00:35:50.520 again, parallels that the Lord draws for us. So I like that you put it that way,
00:35:55.400 that it's not just a wifely duty because it's easy to think that right yeah
00:36:00.340 another thing I'm going to talk to the guys about
00:36:04.580 is when a husband fulfills first Peter 3 7 I'm going to read this passage guys and pay attention
00:36:12.160 to this passage it's something that I think you should memorize if you don't have it memorized
00:36:16.120 it says husbands likewise dwell with them your wives it just got done talking to the wives
00:36:21.880 with understanding another translation will say according to knowledge giving honor to the wife
00:36:29.220 as to the weaker vessel and being heirs together of the grace of life that your prayers might not
00:36:34.560 be hindered so one is that your prayers can be hindered if you don't dwell with your wife
00:36:37.920 according to understanding god's going to say i'm going to turn my ear from your prayers if you do
00:36:41.860 not treat my daughter appropriately is what he's saying in this passage secondly is he's saying
00:36:48.040 giving honor to the wife as to the weaker vessel.
00:36:53.200 The vessel, that term vessel is talking specifically about her physical body.
00:36:58.160 And men, like light bulb moment here I'm going to give you 1.00
00:37:00.980 is that your wife's body can't handle as much sex as your body can. 1.00
00:37:06.200 That's just a fact. 0.52
00:37:08.180 And if you're married for any period of time, you're going to realize that.
00:37:13.760 And, you know, the guy's not going, I'm sore.
00:37:16.620 That's not a thing. And I'm just being, you know, vulnerable and blunt with you guys, but that's just a real thing. And we talk about real things here on this podcast and Veronica's laughing and cringing over here, but it's a real thing.
00:37:33.280 And so you need to take consideration of your wife's body.
00:37:37.420 She's not the same as you. 0.90
00:37:40.300 And so you can't just push sex onto your wife all the time. 0.94
00:37:44.440 That's something that you have to be able to recognize that you have to treat her gently.
00:37:49.620 And I think that there's this expectation in a lot of men that you get to have as much sex as you want when you're married.
00:37:55.920 And that's just not the case. 0.92
00:37:57.440 And I've seen a lot of men abuse that and push their wives into sexual, physical, physical sexual territory that's ungodly.
00:38:07.100 Well, and if a wife is feeling like her husband is loving her as Christ loved the church and is dwelling with her according to knowledge or understanding,
00:38:16.420 if you're feeling loved in that way, it's not a drag to, like, be intimate with your husband.
00:38:25.620 Yeah, yeah, and it's not.
00:38:28.160 Yeah, I mean, the concept that I'm trying to get across here, too,
00:38:33.080 is that the demand for frequency will never compromise your wife's comfort.
00:38:39.340 And so if you're the guy that, yeah, wants to have sex seven days a week,
00:38:45.140 the Lord's leading in that because it is a spiritual thing.
00:38:50.340 It's a sacred moment.
00:38:51.340 It means that sacred, the word sacred means connected with God.
00:38:55.060 And so you can't separate sexual activity from God.
00:39:00.460 And so the demand for frequency is not going to compromise your wife's comfort.
00:39:04.100 It's not going to.
00:39:05.300 So if your wife's uncomfortable, it's because you haven't loved her in the way that she needs to be loved.
00:39:09.160 You haven't given her the time that she needs between, you know, intimacy, whatever it might be.
00:39:16.160 But sadly, the church doesn't talk about this stuff.
00:39:18.220 um and um i want to say one last thing and you can add anything if you want to babe um but
00:39:27.820 sex is the result of oneness it's not always the path to oneness and i'm going to explain
00:39:35.780 what i mean by that meaning that um if you don't feel unified with your spouse during the day
00:39:43.580 you're not going to want sex at night, especially if you're a woman.
00:39:50.020 And again, men, if you've been married for any longer than 30 days, you're going to know that. 0.86
00:39:56.000 But, you know, if a woman doesn't want sex the way that you want sex,
00:40:01.260 it's because she's likely not feeling unified during the day.
00:40:05.480 And so there's a book called Sex Begins in the Kitchen.
00:40:09.120 And the concept of that book is this whole idea is that, you know, we were talking to our friends, the Benham brothers, about this concept is that, you know, if you want to have sex as a man, part of that journey is from the moment you wake up in the morning of, hey, loving your wife, walking in unity with her, caring for her needs.
00:40:31.640 loving her during the day
00:40:33.660 complimenting her
00:40:35.880 sacrificing some of the things
00:40:38.520 that you need to get done
00:40:39.260 so that you can help her
00:40:40.180 teaching her the scriptures
00:40:42.140 showing her this care
00:40:43.720 that is how
00:40:45.400 the Lord has designed us 0.96
00:40:47.740 and our wives
00:40:48.720 to reciprocate 1.00
00:40:49.800 and the way that your wife's 1.00
00:40:51.200 going to reciprocate to you 1.00
00:40:52.180 is to fulfill your needs
00:40:54.180 and those needs are physical
00:40:56.360 I don't know
00:40:59.540 anything to add on that?
00:41:01.040 no i think that's great i um i mean talk about talk about like the preparation remember you
00:41:07.700 know what we talked about just like being happy about that you know um yeah so if you're i mean
00:41:13.680 i think any man or husband would likely agree at least from my conversations with you um
00:41:21.320 it's really challenging to be intimate with somebody that is mentally checked out
00:41:26.540 yeah they're mentally not there and so if you know that time is about to come 0.95
00:41:34.680 you know and if you're not mentally there excuse yourself go to the bathroom give yourself a little
00:41:42.860 mental pep talk freshen yourself up do whatever you got to do but pray but what i'm going to say
00:41:49.660 that you're mentally present mentally present well obviously as well as physically but i'm
00:41:55.460 to say even in the beginning of the day if you sense that your husband is doing this stuff in
00:41:59.840 the beginning of the day like what would you say to that enjoy it right yeah like just enjoy the
00:42:05.420 fact that your husband wants to serve you and love you and that it's not that like he's trying
00:42:12.460 to earn sex but it's that you want to you want to fulfill his needs and you know um one of the
00:42:21.340 safest places for a marriage is a marriage that has sex often because if you don't have sex often
00:42:27.520 there are statistically there's more pornography there's more infidelity there's more adultery
00:42:33.160 and so i mean you can back that up with paul talks about in first corinthians 7 like don't
00:42:39.380 deprive one another don't deprive one another except for a time for fasting and for prayer
00:42:44.020 but come together again soon
00:42:46.320 so that the devil does not
00:42:48.320 tempt you and so
00:42:50.420 that's what we'll
00:42:52.340 end with today so hard questions
00:42:54.360 awkward topics hopefully your kids
00:42:56.400 aren't in the car listening to this
00:42:57.800 and
00:42:59.480 sorry a little late for that
00:43:01.500 so we got
00:43:04.420 a memory verse why don't you
00:43:06.320 read that
00:43:06.740 memory verse
00:43:08.700 this week is Matthew 19 5
00:43:12.160 and six. Therefore, a man 0.97
00:43:14.080 shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast 0.94
00:43:16.240 to his wife, and the two shall become one
00:43:18.240 flesh. So they are no longer
00:43:20.400 two, but one flesh.
00:43:22.380 Therefore, God has joined together.
00:43:24.240 Let no man separate.
00:43:26.900 I think it's a core
00:43:28.160 scripture that we just need to hear over and
00:43:30.220 over. God invented marriage.
00:43:32.320 We don't get to reinvent it. 0.89
00:43:34.180 God invented marriage. We don't get to reinvent it. 0.96
00:43:36.240 And that's a really important process for us to
00:43:38.100 understand. Again,
00:43:40.380 if you guys haven't left us a review,
00:43:42.160 and this content is edifying to you.
00:43:46.020 Please just tap the amount of stars
00:43:47.840 that you'd like to give us.
00:43:48.860 Leave us a review in writing too if you want to
00:43:51.240 because we read every single one of them.
00:43:53.660 I really do.
00:43:54.560 I go back and read every single one
00:43:55.660 and they're so encouraging.
00:43:57.800 So if you want to do that,
00:43:59.000 we would appreciate that.
00:44:00.060 You can also watch the show,
00:44:01.660 get the video,
00:44:02.660 get all the quotes,
00:44:03.780 all the scripture that we've referenced for this show
00:44:05.780 if you just go to ultimatemarriage.com
00:44:07.240 and then just go to the podcast section
00:44:10.240 And this is episode number 13.
00:44:13.680 Yeah.
00:44:14.580 So on that note.
00:44:16.680 Until next week.
00:44:17.780 We will see you then.
00:44:18.940 Take care.
00:44:20.840 Thank you for joining us on this episode of Ultimate Marriage.
00:44:23.700 If you're homesick for a stronger marriage, visit our website at ultimatemarriage.com
00:44:27.840 and consider enrolling in our one-year online marriage mentor program.
00:44:31.540 Also, if you're interested in learning more about building a better marriage,
00:44:34.460 follow Veronica and I on social media,
00:44:36.160 where each week we share tips, tricks, and lessons on building a biblical marriage.
00:44:40.240 Transcription by CastingWords