Dale Partridge - September 06, 2022


Why House Church?


Episode Stats


Length

16 minutes

Words per minute

145.57011

Word count

2,458

Sentence count

128

Harmful content

Hate speech

1

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, Dr. Jason Barker and Dr. Dale Partridge talk about why house churches are important in our world, and why they need to be smaller. Dr. Barker shares the story of how he and his wife, Veronica, started a house church in Oregon, why they decided to move it to Arizona, and what it means to be a "house church."

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Welcome to How We Do House Church. My name is Dr. Jason Barker, and I serve as the academic
00:00:12.960 dean at Reformation Seminary, where it is our mission to train men to plant biblical
00:00:17.320 house churches all around the world. I'm joined here, as always, by our founder and
00:00:21.280 president, Dale Partridge. Dale, thanks for joining us today.
00:00:23.540 I'm excited to be here.
00:00:24.620 So our goal each time that we gather is to discuss one question that is relevant to
00:00:29.720 house church planting? And today, Dale, it's a pretty big, but sort of general, broad question,
00:00:36.360 and that is this. Dale, why house church? Yeah, so this is a question I think a lot of
00:00:41.540 families, a lot of Christian men and women are asking themselves right now,
00:00:46.700 why house church? They want to know more about it. I think that it starts with
00:00:50.480 my experience is that I was looking at my Bible with my left hand,
00:00:56.600 and then looking at my Sunday experience in my right hand, and they weren't matching up.
00:01:03.060 And so that was the beginning or the inauguration of the journey of
00:01:06.460 really seeking out alternative expressions of church. I didn't want something that was
00:01:13.560 unbiblical, but I was definitely frustrated with how extra biblical the traditional church had
00:01:22.100 become. The things that we did at church, I wasn't finding in scripture, children's ministry,
00:01:28.060 the pragmatism, the monologue versus a dialogue, the visitor-centric versus the committed-centric
00:01:38.500 focus. There's a variety of those things. I don't remember who said it, but they said that
00:01:46.020 going to church should be more like going to the gym and less like going to the movies.
00:01:52.100 And I thought that was really profound because I was feeling this sense of contributor Christianity.
00:02:00.320 I wanted to be involved, but really I was an inactive spectator.
00:02:04.200 I was having inactive spectator Christianity or audience Christianity.
00:02:08.560 And so there just started to be a rub on my heart.
00:02:14.360 And this is over 10 years ago.
00:02:17.060 And it took a long time to figure out what a biblical expression of house church really looked like.
00:02:22.100 But that was the sense of I wanted the deeply connected, intimate relationships that were so prevalent in Scripture, but not prevalent in my life.
00:02:35.700 And so Veronica and I started having discussions about that and what that looked like.
00:02:40.180 And we started going from bigger church to smaller church to smaller church to smaller church.
00:02:45.980 there's a metaphor i once heard or an illustration about polar bears and there was a a polar bear
00:02:57.480 that was born in new mexico and polar bears interestingly they can live in new mexico
00:03:04.160 but they can't reproduce in that type of climate and a polar bear from washington state comes up
00:03:12.920 to this polar bear in New Mexico and says,
00:03:15.600 hey, I know you think that New Mexico is the habitat for the polar bear,
00:03:20.500 but I'm telling you, Washington, it's cool.
00:03:23.820 There's some snow parts of the year.
00:03:26.220 The habitat for the polar bear is here in Washington.
00:03:31.780 Well, he goes up to Washington.
00:03:33.700 A polar bear comes down from Alaska and says,
00:03:35.680 hey, guys, I know you think that Washington is the place
00:03:39.120 where the habitat for the polar bear is,
00:03:44.060 but it's cold year round here in Alaska
00:03:47.280 and there's snow most of the year.
00:03:49.100 You really should come to be in Alaska.
00:03:52.120 Well, finally, the Antarctic polar bear comes and says,
00:03:56.040 well, polar bears,
00:03:58.580 there's only one habitat for the polar bear
00:04:01.680 and it's Antarctica.
00:04:05.080 And that is where the polar bear flourishes.
00:04:07.760 Well, that concept is how I think about biblical church, is that we have found Antarctica.
00:04:16.840 It's this place where you go, wow, I'm never going to go back to a traditional function.
00:04:25.020 Now, that being said, we love the traditional church.
00:04:28.540 Absolutely love it.
00:04:29.760 Between us leaving Oregon and planting a house church here in Arizona, we were at a traditional
00:04:37.220 church worshiping the Lord with our brothers and sisters in Christ there. But there is just a sense
00:04:44.420 of several vital elements that are missing. So that was the drive. There's other parts that we
00:04:52.840 can chat about, but that was the personal and intimate drive. So I have a question for you.
00:04:57.420 hit on an interesting dynamic, and it has to do with the size of churches. You mentioned kind of
00:05:03.720 coming from a larger church into a smaller church. Why is it that in the church world,
00:05:09.580 we seem to think that larger is better? And if you think about it, in every other area of life,
00:05:14.840 we want smaller. We want our children in smaller classrooms because we understand there's an
00:05:18.740 educational benefit to that. You don't take your entire extended family with you when you go on
00:05:23.080 vacation, just your immediate family, your wife and your kids. If we acknowledge that smaller is
00:05:29.000 better and more effective and preferable, why is it that the benchmark, the ruler for churches is
00:05:36.640 the bigger they are, the better they are? Yeah, we've all fought for our children's classrooms
00:05:40.560 to be smaller. And we've all fought for, you know, if you go to a conference and there's a
00:05:47.160 certain influential individual leading that conference, you pay more when there's less
00:05:52.920 people, implying that less is more. And it's interesting that there's an inconsistency that
00:06:00.460 we're not applying that same principle to church where we think is more is better.
00:06:07.040 When in reality, it's proving almost on every metric that it's not. I mean, I think that
00:06:13.160 It's evident that we are designed to only be close with a handful of people, 10 to 12 people.
00:06:21.460 There's a reason that Jesus had 12 and not 80 or 100 or 1,000.
00:06:27.040 He preached to thousands.
00:06:28.880 He was influential to thousands, but he was discipling 12.
00:06:33.540 And he was single, right?
00:06:35.140 Didn't have a family.
00:06:35.960 And so, I mean, if you asked your wife and you go, hey, how many friends do we have that are like, we could drop our kids off for a couple nights without even asking and trust that everything's going to be good.
00:06:50.780 And these are, I'm not talking family.
00:06:52.260 I'm talking just friends.
00:06:53.760 You might have two or three families.
00:06:56.820 At most, right?
00:06:57.400 At most.
00:06:58.220 And so, we don't have the time to be close with 40 people.
00:07:04.280 we have the time to be close with maybe five to ten people if we work at it i mean at a house
00:07:12.040 church we have say 10 families 12 families if i wanted to get dinner with every one of those
00:07:18.480 families once a month at 12 families that's three dinners a week that's not going to happen right
00:07:27.300 not when you have little kids um so it might take me two months to get through with the dinner
00:07:33.840 and that's still having a dinner at least once a week or twice a week,
00:07:37.600 probably more realistically, three months to have dinner
00:07:40.520 with just every family in our 12-family house church.
00:07:44.260 You turn that into a 50, 70, 80-family church,
00:07:48.240 and you might get dinner once every year and a half with your pastor.
00:07:52.480 There's just a lack of deeply connected relationships
00:07:55.640 that can be achieved in a larger gathering.
00:08:00.860 And so one thing I want to talk about more, Jason, is this idea of institutional distrust.
00:08:10.760 Right. Yes.
00:08:12.040 There's this thing of, I think people are seeing it in every possible category in business and economics and education and medical.
00:08:21.920 and there's this kind of fear of big being dishonest or big having some sort of...
00:08:32.800 You've been in ministry for 20 years, and you were talking to me about
00:08:37.820 the one thing you love about house church is that there's no money involved.
00:08:43.040 Just talk about that for a second.
00:08:44.680 Yeah. One of the challenges in being a pastor and being in ministry is that there are often things
00:08:51.780 that you know you need to say or counsel you want to give from the full counsel of scripture,
00:08:56.820 but you're often having to decide, do I sugarcoat this? Do I deliver it in the way that it needs to
00:09:03.800 be? Do I deliver it all? Because I am relying on this paycheck to provide for my family.
00:09:09.440 And so, you know, like many things in life, when money gets involved, it does tend to make it more
00:09:14.940 challenging and you do feel like your hands are tied a little bit. So in this house church format,
00:09:21.360 While we do believe that a pastor should be paid for his service, it's not by design going to be a full-time income.
00:09:29.920 And so you're very much freer to do ministry the way that is in line with Scripture.
00:09:36.240 Yeah, you don't have a salary in a house church model.
00:09:39.480 You can receive giving, but you're bivocational.
00:09:44.200 It allows you to be free in the way that you speak.
00:09:47.100 there's a quote by Upton Sinclair that I've twisted that says something like at least you're
00:09:52.100 honest yeah it's like it's difficult for a man to preach on something when his salary depends on him
00:09:57.560 not preaching it yeah and that is so true and then in addition like we can reinvest all the
00:10:03.880 money that's used for the landscaping budget or the parking lot painting or the sign or the electric
00:10:12.080 bill, you can reinvest those financial realities into other things locally in your ministry.
00:10:21.420 And so we already have buildings. They're just houses. And I think the big gap really,
00:10:27.360 as we kind of wrap up this episode, is people are just intimidated because they don't know
00:10:33.040 how to begin. It's difficult to take someone to something you've never been yourself.
00:10:38.860 and you can't explain what you don't understand.
00:10:42.340 And so there's this barrier to entry to house church
00:10:45.000 that we're hoping to solve, obviously, with this podcast,
00:10:49.380 episode after episode, letting people learn what it is,
00:10:53.380 what it's like, so that they can feel more confident
00:10:56.220 to establish one of these.
00:10:58.080 No, absolutely.
00:10:59.320 Before we wrap up, I want to touch back on one thing
00:11:01.640 that you mentioned.
00:11:02.280 You talked about the relational depth
00:11:04.300 and the intimacy of relationships.
00:11:05.880 And I know multiple times, separate from this podcast, you and I have discussed what we would
00:11:12.000 probably call an epidemic of loneliness in society today. I think it's really important
00:11:15.960 to touch on this topic. How does House Church help with that? Yeah, so last Sunday I actually
00:11:25.220 preached on the New Testament call to one-anothering, this mutual ministering of the gospel.
00:11:34.060 and there's over a hundred instances where this greek word alelon
00:11:40.620 appears and it's this idea of one anothering this deeply intimate relationship you know
00:11:49.320 confess your sins into one another and pray for one another you may be healed bear one another's
00:11:53.160 burdens and so fulfill the law of christ um love one another be humble towards one another um you
00:11:59.220 they're all over the New Testament. Most Christians have not had a chance to experience
00:12:05.780 more than a few of those one another's carried out in their own life.
00:12:11.520 And the loneliness factor, this sense of everything's 10 feet wide and one inch deep,
00:12:19.440 where we're just kind of, we know each other, but we don't really know each other.
00:12:26.200 House Church forces an environment that produces a level of intimacy that's very uncommon to American individualism.
00:12:37.340 And so it provides an environment and an ambiance and a structure that takes people to a level of connectedness and dependability and transparency and fellowship that most American Christians have never experienced.
00:13:01.360 And I'll say one example.
00:13:04.920 On Sundays in a house church, we have a period of time where we're allowing anybody from the body to share prayer requests and praise reports.
00:13:14.320 And in a traditional church, you don't get that opportunity to share your prayer request.
00:13:19.340 It can't be done.
00:13:21.140 In a house church, you're shocked by how many people have prayer requests.
00:13:25.180 and how almost every person in the room
00:13:29.000 has something very difficult going on in their life
00:13:33.000 that in a traditional model, you would have never known.
00:13:36.860 And the traditional model is, hey, how you doing?
00:13:38.940 Oh, we're doing all right.
00:13:39.960 Okay, great.
00:13:41.480 Move on to the next person.
00:13:43.300 In the house church, you walk away and you go,
00:13:45.200 my goodness, everybody's life is tough.
00:13:48.260 And there's a sense of the sharing of those tough moments and asking for prayer that brings people to a place of closeness that is just rich and solves the vast majority of those loneliness issues because there's real relationship there.
00:14:12.940 There's a reciprocating, participating fellowship that's occurring that is like the fabric woven together of Christian life.
00:14:27.540 And so, House Church does that.
00:14:30.420 Now, you need a shepherd who can really lead you towards that.
00:14:36.120 And it takes a lot of training and time, which is why we started Reformation Seminary.
00:14:40.780 But it is absolutely part of that journey, and it does solve that problem.
00:14:47.640 Yeah, you know, it's almost as if, and this seems kind of a pessimistic way of looking at it,
00:14:53.140 but pain, suffering, difficulty, challenges, disappointment,
00:14:57.660 those are almost universal constants in life, not just in life as a whole,
00:15:01.540 but in life of believers as well.
00:15:03.260 And what is a church, if not a place, where people gather together
00:15:08.140 and we bring all of our baggage with us and we find hope and we find guidance and direction from
00:15:12.980 God's word and from other believers on what steps to take to move forward with hope in life. And so
00:15:19.480 it's neat to know about this house church model and that it is uniquely designed to meet those
00:15:26.080 needs. Amen. Yeah, it is. We've gone a few centuries with only one way to do church.
00:15:37.200 And there is an alternative that is biblical. And that's really the mission of this show is
00:15:44.680 to teach people how to do that. Well, Dale, I think that's probably a good place for us to
00:15:48.400 wrap this episode. And we want to thank you guys for taking the time to tune into this episode of
00:15:53.140 How We Do House Church. I want to remind you that it is available in both video and podcast form
00:15:58.680 across all formats. Now, if you happen to have any questions about how you can be trained
00:16:02.820 to plant a biblical house church in your neck of the woods, you've got two options. You can 0.99
00:16:07.760 head to reformationseminary.com and inquire for more information, or you can order a copy of
00:16:13.380 Dale's book, also titled How We Do House Church. But for now, thanks so much for joining us,
00:16:18.040 and we'll see you next time.
00:16:23.140 Transcription by CastingWords