Episode #1 - Fitness & Software： Going From 10-100 Customers w⧸ Mike Ives, Founder of Onramp Online
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Summary
OnRamp is a software company that helps CrossFit gyms get more members by helping them automate their marketing and onboarding process. In this episode, we talk about how OnRamp was born, how it works, and why you should be using it.
Transcript
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So let's do pull-ups, push-ups, pull-up, push-ups, hair squats are kind of dumb.
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That's pretty much it that we get to failure fast, right?
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We talked about software, marketing, distribution, the right way to create content, the right
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way to engage a Facebook group, and really just understand how to pre-sell your software
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your software so you get what's called customer financing
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because I believe, and it's a big thing I'm going to keep
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kind of harping on, that crowdfunding has really brought
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the cost of failure to zero if you choose to embrace it
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or you can do the opposite of what a lot of entrepreneurs do
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only to find out that nobody actually wanted it.
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We did it in my gym that I'm a business partner in
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OnRamp. OnRamp is something I've built to help CrossFit gyms get more members by helping them
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automate their marketing and onboarding. So it's called OnRamp. What does it do?
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What it does is it gives gym owners the ability to create multiple landing pages,
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connect those to Facebook or any other platform that they want to. It handles,
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captures the lead. It gets that lead to make a booking. It handles all the other bookings.
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Does it set up the sequence for messaging after the fact?
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Yeah. It has automatic emails built into it. Cool. It also integrates both text and Facebook
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messages as well as emails all in one place. So in the lead capture you collect email and
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cell number? Yeah. Cool and then what's the sequence and then we're going to talk about
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the business but what's the sequence post capture like what's the timeline what's the message
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structure? Sure so what happens is that they come in they enter their lead information the thank
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Thank you screen actually has a place where they can book an available time slot.
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Cool, so post, opt-in, thank you page, which is awesome.
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About half the people at our gym book right away.
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The other ones are kind of subsequent where we get in touch with them.
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But we also will usually reach out by text message as well.
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And the system will show you if the email got delivered and opened.
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So are we sponsored by Compete Every Day, or is it just a...
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Yeah, I was like, I have my shirt in the car, I'm just going to put it on.
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And really, like, how long have you been an entrepreneur?
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Because I know you're also, that's why we're doing it here in CrossFit Gym.
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Worked with a couple of tech companies like Unisys and LexisNexis.
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And I have a system that does online searching of judgments in PEI.
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a lot of the lawyers use, and I've worked with other companies and countries doing that.
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About four or five years ago, I kind of did a little bit of a tangent into some gym software.
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No, there was a competition program you built too.
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It was CommTracker, which I built for CrossFit gyms.
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So, CommTracker was something free for gym owners to use to run their competitions,
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and that's still out there, and a lot of the gyms still use it.
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A lot of them in the Maritimes use it across the country.
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Yeah, well, I'm ADHD, so it works out really well.
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But the member tracker was also attendance tracking.
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It used their phones to check them in when they show up for class and then payment stuff.
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But the last, about eight months ago, we moved into our new space for our CrossFit gym.
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Yeah, so CrossFit 782, which was our gym, we had about 110 members at our old location
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So we bought our own building, we moved in, and we started getting a lot of traffic both through Facebook and just our new location.
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Why do you care about fitness? And I know it's a weird...
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I'm better at work, I'm better at home with my family.
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My wife and daughter both do CrossFit with me.
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I've done Taekwondo now for over 30 years. I'm a 7th degree black belt in that.
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So this is your way of just bringing it to the community, doing something you love doing?
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Well, it's something like CompTracker I built to help us do a competition we were doing to aid Special Olympics.
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So I just kind of built this thing to add on to it.
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member tracker same thing but i i kept bolting stuff on to member tracker when we moved i said
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okay we need some landing pages okay we need something to kind of track people through the
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pipeline as they move but basically like a crm for gyms yeah um i need something that'll automate
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the emails so i kept kind of bolting stuff on and as i talked to gym owners about member tracker
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they said oh well i like can i get i don't i got the payment system figured out i've already got
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something for that but can I get the member tracker landing pages and the
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emails. So there was iterations though because on-ramp is new did you feel like
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the member tracker or whatever was kind of like slow to get market adoption and
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then it was there was a lot of a lot of competition in that area you have
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players out there like Zen Planner yeah very well established and they're a
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great product yeah and so we were kind of competing against them so we really
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just kind of took a lot of the stuff that our people liked and focused on
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Off the funnel, which is members, attracting members, and then getting them on board once
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A lot of gym owners were telling me they were struggling with Facebook ads and what to do
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with it, and they were cobbling together lead pages and some other stuff to kind of respond
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back, like Infusionsoft, which is quite expensive when you're trying to tie all these other
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So what would make our conversation perfect for you?
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we built Member Tracker back in about April, kind of spun it off as its own thing. Had a bunch of
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gym owners get really interested in it. We actually have a gym marketing Facebook group
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with about 300 gym owners in it. Yeah, just teaching them marketing strategies.
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Exactly. So that's like your inbound content. Yeah, exactly. So we've kind of kept early access
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pretty limited to about 10 people. We're working on our onboarding. We're using Intercom for that,
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which is great. So now at this stage, we're getting comfortable with the product. I'm not
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sure if we're at product market fit there. I'm not sure if you ever are, but you keep iterating.
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So now we've got to kind of start developing the growth and marketing channels to get people in
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the door. And that's one of the reasons I wanted to make sure the onboarding was tight and also
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that we're getting good product out there. Do you have a wait list right now outside of the 10 that
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using the product? I've got a number of people who are really interested in it.
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But nobody on the wait list. Not a wait list per se. Cool. I would start building the wait list
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and I would take deposits. Okay. So what do you charge right now per month?
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The early access is $50 but the regular price will be $100 a month. Okay, cool. I would get some
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level of commitment, maybe $100 and it's not to like say that it's $100 for a year or anything.
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A lot of people that do pre-sales will usually get 50% off their first year. Okay. So instead
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of $1,200, it'll be $600, and then they'll get grandfathered into that monthly price,
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but then they'll be monthly in the second year.
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I'm just a fan of saying, okay, we've got 10 that we're working with to get product
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like that we're going to iterate with, but we have a backlog of people with commitment
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because it's just too easy, and there's no cost to the person to put an email in to
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Yeah, I've got about 40 emails of people who are just like, yeah, put me on when it's
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Yeah, so I would take that list, email them out and say, hey, we're prioritizing based
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on commitment and just to show that we're both on the same page we're just asking people to put a
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$50 or $100 deposit and then that's going to kind of prioritize. Truth is if your product allows them
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to make at least one sale which minimum on a monthly basis if you even build any kind of
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campaigning you're going to get that outcome especially with the text messages. Get and keep
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one new member and it pays for itself. Exactly so if they're not willing to put a hundred that'll
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give you some feedback which I think is important to understand because because when you ask for
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money all of a sudden they start thinking about like what is the competitive landscape look into
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and that's probably what you discovered in the previous product is like you know people try to
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compete on price but it usually never wins even in a freemium space like freemium essentially what
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you're doing is you're transferring marketing dollars right where you're saying instead of
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spending money on marketing i'm going to give away the product for free my bet is the users are going
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to use the product and they're going to market it for me word of mouth and then a small percentage
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are going to pay so essentially just transferring the economics of do i pay up front or do i pay
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it through free product and then on the back end through word of mouth I get to monetize it right
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so that would be the first thing you have a wait list or 40 people that say they're interested
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get them to put a financial commitment if you just called it twelve hundred dollars lifetime
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value of a customer that's really great yeah usually at 150 to 200 usually the 2,000 a year
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annual contract value to 5,000 is when you can start investing on inside sales people which
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allows you to really amp up the sales because at the end of the day unless you're doing freemium
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even freemium, you know, like Slack and Dropbox,
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They just essentially let from like zero to a hundred
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employee sized companies use the product for free
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and they have like kind of micro prompts in the product
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to like say like, oh, do you need to talk to somebody?
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Maybe it's because they installed an integration
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or they hit a certain limit of messages or whatever.
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Yeah, they essentially use that as a kind of a trigger
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sales development rep and then that kicks it off
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you have that ability so that's amazing so then it's the decision on like where do I spend my
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money and and to me it's what's in your DNA it sounds like the community aspect the group right
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now is a is a winning strategy for you like you like that right love it yeah yeah perfect so then
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that that I think you take as a core concept you just broaden it a little bit more so right now it
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sounds like Facebook private Facebook group is a really good mechanism you could just run ads right
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now to CrossFit owners. Is that how you filled it so far? Somewhat, yeah. I've got an email list
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I built of about 2,000 CrossFit gym owners, and that's just by interacting with people on
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the CrossFit affiliate owners page and putting some free content up there that people have asked
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What's the group called? My group? Gym Marketing. Okay, so gym marketing. So you have not run paid
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ads to get members for gym marketing. No. That would be low-hanging fruit. Yeah. Yeah, so like
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just targeted, you know, gym owners, and we all know the same people in the space that are
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that are selling to those customers so you can create lookalike audiences and just build that
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free group. So that's one really great strategy. And then what I would do is, it's kind of the
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ask methods. Ryan Levesque has this book called Ask. Yeah, great book. So the core concept is
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produce the content that's most relevant to your customers based on asking them.
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So in the group, ideally, once every two weeks, you're prompting them for their top challenge
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when it comes to running a gym. Many of them will already post it because it's their Q&A in the
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the private Facebook group. But if not, you prompt them. Those answers, verbatim, the language they
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use becomes your content marketing. The best way to leverage content marketing is through OPN,
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other people's networks. So a lot of people make the mistake of writing or creating content for
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their own blog. The problem is that you still don't have distribution.
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Exactly. And that's kind of what if I want a 10x from 10 to 100 to 100.
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It's a good thing to have content on your blog so that you look relevant, especially for your
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product blog, the on-ramp blog, but you could get away of saying, what are the top five
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challenges that one of my customers run into? If you had to name five hot buttons, what would those
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be? Facebook marketing, getting clients in the door, automatic emails, onboarding. What about
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the sales script for the conversation when they have the session book? Yeah, yeah. They don't
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know what to say. Yeah, I hadn't even thought of that. That's a big one. I just created a new
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member messaging kit that I gave. And I did that based on a poll I did on the Facebook page. I
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didn't do it open-ended, but I did. So the cool part is you get five of these pillar pieces of
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content that if you ask, you know, anybody in a gym, what are your top challenges? It's usually
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around marketing, messaging, converting, retention. Like, I mean, at the end of the day, it's business.
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Those are the big levers, right? You create those five pieces of content, you put those on the blog,
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you take the dates off, and then that way it's evergreen. If I come to your site and I look at
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The answer to the blog, and really the answer to the blog, the question the customer's having
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when they visit your site on the blog is, are they experts?
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Because if you think about it, when you buy a software, you're deferring your need to innovate
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through the company and the product that you pay for.
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So I don't need to figure out what's the best fitness program.
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I just go to CrossFit, and I trust that the CrossFit coaches are going to continue to push that.
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People are going to use your product on-ramp because they're assuming that you're going to bring to them
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the best practices for attracting, converting, and getting clients in their gym. Does that make
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sense? So the blog needs to show that. But outside of that, then you take those questions and you
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produce content and you get distribution on other blogs. If you had to name five blogs that speak
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to gym owners, what would they be? There's a number of them. Regardless of their competition.
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Yeah, I was going to say, well, Zen Planner's got a big following. Barbell Logic, there's a lot of
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people on it. The bigger ones I guess are just like some of the magazines, Box
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Business or The Box and all that. So what's cool is you take the top
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challenges that are current in your community, language, you pitch the ideas
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this is a mistake a lot of content producers make is they produce the
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content. I've always, when I was building Flowtown, we did a blog 350,000
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uniques a month. Within eight months, this is a strategy. We said okay,
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we did two things. Who's got the content that, who has the audience that we want
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to get our content in front of, who's got the data, because this was a unique hook that
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we were doing, we were doing data pieces, so data visualizations, who's got the unique
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data, and then we would actually pitch, take the data, so let's say LexisNexis had a data
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set that was interesting to social media marketing.
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We would then find Mashable, TechCrunch, Forbes, whoever, and we'd say, hey, we've got this
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unique piece of data, we have this article we want to write, we're looking for placement,
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It'll be placed on Forbes, but, you know, on the next day we get to publish it on our blog.
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And if you want, if you have, like, you know, if there was a data set you got from a survey from your group,
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if you could actually approach another group and say, hey, we want to ask these five questions,
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and from that we're going to actually create this e-book, and we'll co-create it with you.
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You just have to promote it, but underneath there is, like, created by them and you, right?
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Right. Which especially if it's a news outlet that's different than a software. So you guys
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are the software. If they're the news outlet, if they're the authority, then there's really no
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like they're used to having people pay for a placement. This is essentially your payment
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is in the form of really high quality content. Yeah. You'll see Beyond the Whiteboard do that
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on the CrossFit site. 100%. That's the way to do it. So that would be the content strategy that's
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unique that most people don't think of. Instead, they do a lot of content on their own site. They
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We then do this spam process of getting link backs to their articles through people.
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I get those emails every day like, hey, could you link up this article to this post?
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Then what's neat is then, so wherever you get the question from within your community,
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when you get the content created, go back and submit it as an answer to the comment.
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That'll create incredible goodwill within the Facebook group because they're like,
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you actually went and produced this stellar piece of content for my community.
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Some people are really good at marketing, right?
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They're great at paid ads or great at landing pages or great at copy.
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And for those clients, I'm just like, hey, just amplify the crap out of that.
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If you feel like your best, where the water settles for you,
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if you kind of poured it on the ground, it's like towards that kind of strategy.
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I think you're going to get the best ROI from it.
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Another thing that works really well for Facebook groups is interviewing the other members.
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Yeah, and I was trying to get some other people to kind of contribute more in the Facebook group.
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So what I do is just set up a calendar, set up a schedule, have members that get wins.
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So people like post it like, hey, anybody got any bright spots, any wins?
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And then grab that person and say, hey, I'd love to schedule an interview for you.
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How did you get 15, 25 members in the last month?
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It also allows the people that are in the group to start to get to know the other members.
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See, I've always had a problem when a group brings in experts because I know within the group, we've already got people.
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Well, and I've had some Facebook marketers who work with gyms actually want to join the group too.
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And I said, as long as you share, that's great.
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but if you're just going on there and direct messaging people and poaching, then no, we're not good with that.
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Yeah, so I think that's a really good, kind of the rules of engagement law of the land is set.
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But that would be foundational stuff, and then it would be, I would say, amplifying the content.
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So what I've seen, and I'm starting to play around this concept called the brand builder funnel,
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which is taking the content, I have a lot of friends that do really well on paid ads,
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and some of them what they're doing is they're shooting 20-minute videos and
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they take anybody, so they create custom audience bases on engagement. So it used
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to be like, let's run ads against this content, it's 100% free, we're gonna take
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the people that click through, so we take those five hot button posts, we put it on
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Facebook and then of the people that click through, we create a sub audience
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on that and then we run lead magnets to just that to start to build the
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conversions. What they're doing now is doing that with videos. So do a
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20-minute video on how to increase your members or whatever those top challenges and only people
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that watch 10 minutes plus that you then run the ad against. The thing that you offer for free
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is really a checklist which it sounds like you've created the... I did a social media checklist as
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well. That actually to my email list got... What was the one you just created? New member
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messaging starter. So that would be the lead magnet. So I would do a new member messaging
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video. Don't sell anything. Don't come off as salesy at all. Anybody that watches more than
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10 minutes, you do a 20-minute video, then you re-market those people to the checklist.
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Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. What about webinars as far as...
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Webinars always happen on the back end of the lead magnet. So the webinars work really well,
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especially if you have an audience. It says you have 2,000 people on the email list. That's the
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way to pre-sell the software? You know, if you've been following my stuff for a while,
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like my big thing is, how do I sell enough of the software? I mean, and people always
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like, oh, you need to build it to sell it. It's not true. I mean, we got crowdfunding
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that proves that people are willing to throw down millions of dollars without ever receiving
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a product based on a video. So if that's true in crowdfunding, it's true in any software.
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So I've worked with clients that have sold half a million dollars' worth of software
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without any product being built off screenshots.
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Yeah. So it's a numbers game. You've got to get people on the webinar. The webinar registration,
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I think you want to run one cold or warm traffic to your audience. So you've got the 2,000 people,
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invite them to the webinar, teach them the three things you need to do to get.
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Well, I was saying like Facebook ads and all that.
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So here's the interesting part. The best webinars teach the thing your software does for them.
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So your software doesn't teach people how to create Facebook ads.
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I would teach them how to create a great Facebook landing page.
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What are the other core features your product does?
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So literally your webinar teaches one, two, and three.
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Your turn is, hey, I just showed you how to do this and I know it's going to just crush
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At this point, usually people start asking me questions
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And everybody's like, yes, please, yes, please,
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you've got to be the person to get some results
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so you know like I give, give, give, and then for a very small percentage of people that want
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my specific advice and even, you know, doing these videos is kind of my way to do even more,
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they come into my world. But there's a strategy to it because if you were to teach stuff that
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doesn't, that your product can't serve, it's kind of like you could teach, so you have software for
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on-ramping at a gym, right? You could teach accounting. Yeah. And people would need that
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and they'd want it but it's not strategic it's not marketing like people need to understand that
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marketing is not just teaching for the sake of teaching marketing's purpose of content is to
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move them down the funnel yeah like i think a lot of people confuse they're like oh i'm doing
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marketing it's like what does that content have to do with getting somebody closer to isn't that
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interesting like there was nothing in that um interaction that got them thinking this is the
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guy that is going to help me solve this problem.
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And I think that's why the first webinar I did was on like Facebook marketing and all
00:22:39.620
And I did the turn and my concept on the turn was that, oh, well, we're getting you a lot
00:22:45.580
But I don't think I was quite close enough in the connection of there's too much of a
00:22:48.820
No, everybody wants to teach the thing that makes what they're doing apparently clear.
00:22:53.480
My thing is teach them how to do manually what your software automates.
00:22:57.840
So if we were playing this game and, you know, we were talking about project management
00:23:01.480
software i would teach them how to do project management in a manual way critical path all
00:23:08.200
critical path yeah outcome goals uh how to create to-do list uh how to how to delegate how to how
00:23:13.920
to you know do all these parts yeah so that they go wow that's amazing but now i feel overwhelmed
00:23:19.100
and i go hey do you want to talk about some software that might help you get that done like
00:23:22.600
this afternoon they're going of course yeah then it makes sense because you've got them you know
00:23:27.400
sometimes it's interesting where people sometimes forget the pain that they're in and we just got
00:23:32.880
to remind them and i think that it's really great right it's just you just you just got to remind
00:23:36.500
them right that hey i know you feel like you're doing it's just like your gym right your monthlies
00:23:42.540
is probably above the average for most people right yeah but yet the other people that aren't
00:23:48.320
there would almost feel good about where they're at because they would think like oh this is i'm
00:23:52.180
doing good for my city but if you say well oh did you know Canada is 155 that's my that's the number
00:23:57.960
I know I don't know if it's true but 155 a month for my gym and I'm at 115 all of a sudden 115
00:24:03.060
doesn't seem as good as the 155 which is the average for the year right you have to remind
00:24:08.060
them that you have to remind them that like oh you see all these gyms that are doing really well
00:24:12.360
you watch orange theory as a franchise and you're like I want to be uh I want to have more structure
00:24:17.220
like an orange theory then you have to kind of ask yourself or teach them here's what they're doing
00:24:23.780
this is the gap right you need to say like here's what you want here's what you're at this is the
00:24:27.860
gap and our software is going to help you accomplish people either don't know or they
00:24:31.140
forget it we had a girl in the other day who i met at regionals in 2009 ran a gym and she
0.90
00:24:37.220
i took it through the software she goes she's from ontario she goes where was this when i was
00:24:41.300
running the gym right so she's actually given us two more people now to sell to yeah so like i
00:24:46.820
said she didn't know the issue most people don't know that this is a thing yeah right they don't
00:24:51.360
even know that um you know most people don't even want to do a sales like like how many of your
00:24:58.300
clients have a allergic reaction to the idea of a sales appointment yet yeah you call it a no sweat
00:25:03.340
intro you call it a you know strategy session you call it whatever you want intro yeah free intro
00:25:07.640
and then all of a sudden now it's approachable and it's like but that's even the right way to
00:25:11.040
do it for the customer like i don't know like this gym is pretty open if you're new and you walk in
00:25:16.160
like there's there should be a wall yeah because it's it's intimidating it's like you come in here
00:25:21.240
and you're like seeing all these gladiators work out and die and pass out on the ground and create
00:25:25.300
sweat angels and you're like you haven't even ran a mile yeah and this is the first experience like
00:25:31.040
i know that yeah but it's no different online right it's like they need to be discussed they
00:25:37.280
need to have a conversation they want to have they want to feel like it's me it's personalized
00:25:41.460
And I think that most folks that come from a, you know, physical training background,
00:25:51.460
That's what a lot of the automated emails we do.
00:25:54.880
We just basically spur it along and make sure they don't forget about people,
00:25:57.980
have them fall through the cracks, because that's really easy to happen.
00:26:03.960
So if we were to unpack this, you've got the group, you can grow, 10x that.
00:26:09.740
Even before you do that, you're going to get some more deposits
00:26:11.920
so that you can really get some more validated learning
00:26:19.060
Then we're going to do top five blog posts for the biggest challenge.
00:26:24.820
You can also co-create pieces with folks that have distribution
00:26:33.960
So create some kind of funnel to get them on a webinar.
00:26:38.240
So the webinar prompt would happen post-lead magnet.
00:26:41.300
Just like you get on the thank you page, it's your funnel.
00:26:46.260
I'm just showing you the best practice for software, which is give somebody some value that's simple, actionable, goal-oriented, easy.
00:26:53.920
Then on that page, you then say, hey, do you want even more information?
00:26:58.340
Then on the webinar, it's like, hey, do you want to be part of our early adopter program or our founder's circle or whatever you want to call that thing?
00:27:06.840
because again, I think that the cost of failure
00:27:26.180
out of my Taekwondo school with like broomsticks.
00:27:28.540
Just say like, who wants to pay to learn this in CrossFit
00:27:36.260
Like I said, we're looking at doing maybe some productized services around Facebook ads.
00:27:41.260
We've had a lot of people asking us about that and thought that might be a good way to kind of get started.
00:27:45.900
So the challenge, so I think it makes a lot of sense to offer services around the core implementation.
00:28:00.780
But the core implementation essentially is using the product.
00:28:06.280
The Facebook business and marketing is a different business.
00:28:08.360
I've got a few people who are wanting to kind of get involved with that aspect of it.
00:28:11.800
So I thought I might just kind of make them partners.
00:28:16.200
And let them kind of run with it because if the client's succeeding, we have people
00:28:19.580
coming to us saying, oh, you don't know how to do this, but I want to stay on product.
00:28:22.080
The only thing I would do is add an NPS heartbeat to their work for you.
00:28:26.200
So they're not allowed to do any work without a net promoter score survey and unless they
00:28:30.640
keep a 75 plus they're not a partner anymore oh cool idea because you're referring them the last
00:28:35.520
thing even i don't care if you give me 10 percent my gyms to be happy though i need you to deliver
00:28:39.760
and the only way to do that from my point of view is have that survey sent two weeks after delivery
00:28:44.320
of whatever they offered and if my clients aren't feeling like they're getting value i'm just going
00:28:48.240
to find a different provider there's enough opportunity right now in on-ramp to just take
00:28:53.760
to focus on it right because the adhd is it's powerful but it can also be a little shiny object
00:28:59.120
syndrome it's and so i would say set a goal like get it get it to a million ar that's my that's like
00:29:04.560
every business like people always like well i have multiple streams of business i'm like
00:29:08.640
let's talk numbers right and usually the numbers aren't a million plus in each different business
00:29:13.680
and i and i would just say like focus on getting it there and then start looking at opportunity to
00:29:18.720
to do more yeah perfect that's awesome awesome mike glad you made the drive man appreciate it
00:29:23.120
Cheers. Thank you. The biggest thing was getting our company to grow kind of past where we are
00:29:29.280
right now. We've done a lot of product development. We're at a stage now where we want to kind of grow
00:29:33.200
from 10 to 100. We're in that kind of area where we need to figure out our growth channels and how
00:29:38.820
best to kind of attack that. Got a lot of great focus on some, you know, basically a checklist of
00:29:43.880
what I need to do next, starting with like a Facebook group that I already established and
00:29:49.440
working within that, figuring out what kind of content people want it and then how to
00:29:52.680
amplify that content and get more people onto our site through a funnel that we all