Dan Martell - December 01, 2017


Episode #4 - How To Get Into The Cryptocurrency Industry w⧸ Ameer Rosic ( BlockGeeks.com)


Episode Stats

Length

31 minutes

Words per Minute

212.54344

Word Count

6,727

Sentence Count

563

Misogynist Sentences

3

Hate Speech Sentences

4


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode of the BlockGeeks podcast, I sit down with Ammar Chaudhuri, CEO and Founder of Blockgeeks, a company that focuses on Bitcoin, Ethereum and other cryptocurrencies. We discuss the company's vision for the next 5 years, how they think about the space, and who are the good actors and the bad actors in the Bitcoin space.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.080 So this one is action packed
00:00:02.200 and I'm not gonna sugarcoat it.
00:00:03.680 I didn't wanna slow it down.
00:00:04.600 I didn't wanna, you know, fish or price it.
00:00:06.800 We get deep into Bitcoin cryptocurrency,
00:00:09.760 crypto economics, ICOs.
00:00:11.840 If some of those terms are new to you,
00:00:13.520 start writing them down.
00:00:14.560 I actually highly recommend you get a piece of paper
00:00:16.680 and you take some notes.
00:00:18.160 I sit down with Amir who's arguably one of the top
00:00:20.640 thought leaders in the space
00:00:22.560 and we just deconstructed not only the incredible resource
00:00:25.920 he's created at BlockGeeks,
00:00:27.920 we've also talked about their business model,
00:00:29.800 how they look at being involved in the Bitcoin,
00:00:33.560 the crypto space and the vision for the next five years
00:00:37.080 and talk about who are the good actors, the bad actors
00:00:39.880 and how you as a potential accountant,
00:00:43.740 marketing expert, lawyer could get involved
00:00:47.740 and actually make a killing in the Bitcoin crypto space.
00:00:52.040 So I'm super excited to bring you Amir
00:00:53.740 and be sure to leave a comment below.
00:00:55.320 Let me know what the biggest takeaway
00:00:56.900 was from this conversation, cheers.
00:00:58.940 You're in the crypto space, and what is BlockGeeks?
00:01:04.260 BlockGeeks, in a nutshell, is we focus on educating developers online.
00:01:08.420 So if you're like a junior dev, and you're trying to get in the space, we offer online training.
00:01:13.640 Who would be an example?
00:01:15.960 Like, what would be a similar kind of company?
00:01:18.360 Udacity.
00:01:19.120 Okay, Udacity.
00:01:20.040 Any others?
00:01:20.660 Team Treehouse.
00:01:21.760 Treehouse.
00:01:22.420 Pluralsight.
00:01:23.240 Pluralsight.
00:01:23.760 So you know who your competitive set is, but not necessarily competitive.
00:01:26.680 We're a little bit different, though, too.
00:01:27.760 Totally.
00:01:28.080 So what's different about what you guys are doing?
00:01:30.080 So one, we're very agnostically focusing just on blockchain technology.
00:01:34.080 And number two, we're actually implementing crypto itself within BlockGeeks.
00:01:37.080 Okay.
00:01:38.080 Agnostic meaning that...
00:01:40.080 We don't just focus on Ethereum.
00:01:42.080 Okay.
00:01:43.080 You focus on cryptocurrencies, the blockchain technology.
00:01:47.080 Okay.
00:01:48.080 So you're agnostic to that.
00:01:49.080 You're teaching what though?
00:01:50.080 Because people like those other sites, they are teaching curriculum.
00:01:53.080 What's your curriculum going to be?
00:01:54.080 The difference between, let's say, you're a JavaScript developer is all you learn is just basic if, this, then that rules on JavaScript, right?
00:02:01.060 When it comes to blockchain architectural system, it's more than just coding.
00:02:04.100 You have to understand human psychology, human behavior, economic principles, etc.
00:02:08.380 So it's different actual...
00:02:09.960 Why is that?
00:02:11.240 Because you're actually building a society online.
00:02:13.800 It's not just code.
00:02:14.560 When you look at Ethereum, when you look at Bitcoin, it's a society.
00:02:17.620 And society has governance rules.
00:02:18.520 And most people think it's just currency.
00:02:20.580 Yeah, but it's not.
00:02:21.300 Yeah. So essentially you're designing the laws that this society, this set of values,
00:02:30.140 inside the currency, there's a set of rules, governance, principles, et cetera. And so it's
00:02:38.000 really the human side and it's the technology side.
00:02:40.320 That comes together, yeah.
00:02:41.360 Cool. What do you think is going to be the unfair advantage in your business in this space?
00:02:47.040 For us, right away is positioning. We're the world's biggest blockchain educational website
00:02:50.600 already. We launched about a year and a bit ago. We're doing coming up to 3.5 million visits a
00:02:55.680 month. And how did you do that? Content marketing. Okay. Well, I break that apart. Content marketing.
00:03:01.620 So I'll tell you. So good friend, my Dimitri, which is Vitalik's father. So Vitalik invented
00:03:06.460 Ethereum. I got in the space. That's an unfair advantage to a certain degree. It's a massive
00:03:10.160 unfair advantage. Yeah. The father of the son who created one of the second largest currencies
00:03:15.200 is your business partner. Yes. All right. Let's start there. So for me, I was talking to Dimitri
00:03:20.100 at that time, and I was trying to find more information about Bitcoin, about Ethereum,
00:03:23.260 and everyone kept on pointing me to Reddit.
00:03:25.260 I'm not a big fan of Reddit because there's a lot of, let's say, trolls over there, and
00:03:28.240 you go down the rabbit hole.
00:03:29.120 I'm like, I just want information.
00:03:30.200 I don't want to read through a million threads to find one diamond in the rough.
00:03:33.480 I just want to read a simple blog that, for me, I'm not a developer.
00:03:36.480 Even though I understand technology, I'm not a coder itself.
00:03:39.020 I just want to understand the 30,000-foot view.
00:03:42.420 And then it didn't exist, and it's kind of mind-numbing to me.
00:03:45.140 I'm like, Bitcoin's been around for seven-plus years at this time.
00:03:47.480 There's no resource for that.
00:03:48.720 There's no resource for Ethereum.
00:03:49.880 and there's no resource for any of these other blockchains,
00:03:52.520 I'm like, okay, I'll build it.
00:03:54.680 So it came, me and the email were talking,
00:03:56.780 well, let's do this.
00:03:57.500 And then my second idea came as,
00:03:59.340 well, I personally want to learn a little bit of coding myself.
00:04:01.380 Just to understand it, right?
00:04:02.300 Not to do it, but to understand it.
00:04:03.680 So I went to Udacity, I went to the big three.
00:04:06.880 I'm like, okay, they must have it.
00:04:08.240 It doesn't exist.
00:04:09.220 So I started talking to all the other coders.
00:04:11.100 So they have the base coding stuff there,
00:04:12.680 but they don't talk about the differences
00:04:15.380 between crypto implementation.
00:04:17.100 They don't have anything to do with crypto.
00:04:18.820 Zero, zero, Trinata.
00:04:19.580 It's just like literally if then, case statements,
00:04:22.240 like basic JavaScript.
00:04:23.340 Yeah, and for them it makes sense.
00:04:24.680 I don't think so there's enough demand yet
00:04:26.060 for them to justify the fact that investing
00:04:27.600 that much resource into it.
00:04:29.820 Then I'm like, fuck it, I'll make it myself.
00:04:31.260 I've done it courses in the past.
00:04:32.840 And so we just went in on it.
00:04:34.280 And for me, my background is online marketing growth.
00:04:36.780 Those are like the two things,
00:04:38.260 like content creation and like SEO content.
00:04:42.200 Yeah, technical SEO.
00:04:43.200 So I'm like, fuck it, let's do this.
00:04:45.080 And so I started focusing on really providing
00:04:47.620 high value content.
00:04:48.860 like we didn't skim on resources for that.
00:04:51.360 Like each blog that we come out,
00:04:53.260 I wouldn't call it blog, but I call it a resource.
00:04:54.980 It's minimum 2,500 words, base bone minimum.
00:04:58.400 Highly researched.
00:05:00.240 We put a lot of data into it.
00:05:01.980 I just send everybody to BlockGeeks.
00:05:03.540 It's easier for me.
00:05:04.360 So we spend, you know, on average,
00:05:05.820 when people talk about content ROI,
00:05:08.100 we spend anywhere between 1,500 to 2,000
00:05:10.140 for these resource cards.
00:05:10.980 I appreciate it, man.
00:05:11.820 I had a guy do CrossFit with Ian.
00:05:14.140 He asked me, he's an accountant,
00:05:16.180 And like, you know, it's kind of like pretty much a laggard-ish, you know what I mean?
00:05:20.040 Like the accountants are definitely not usually early adopters.
00:05:22.400 And he was like, hey, man, what do you know about, you know, we're working out.
00:05:25.820 Yeah, he's like, what do you know about crypto?
00:05:26.840 I was like, okay, don't open that.
00:05:28.540 Like we're about to do a workout.
00:05:29.720 Oh, the can of worms.
00:05:30.760 Yeah, and I was just like, go to Block Geeks, go spend six months, you know, read everything you can.
00:05:37.060 But I'm curious because I know you're building Accelerator and then you've obviously built this massive knowledge base that's free.
00:05:42.860 anybody can go consume it and you talk about like the right way to purchase and secure it and wallets
00:05:47.000 and all that stuff. I know you've you're very vocal on ICOs and the craziness that's going on
00:05:53.460 right now but if somebody wanted to get involved because this is the big the big question is how
00:05:57.980 how would you suggest somebody get involved not necessarily having to buy Bitcoin and or
00:06:04.360 cryptocurrency or having to become a programmer what are your thoughts to somebody's just
00:06:08.960 passionate about, they see this as the future, right? It's not just a way to make
00:06:13.700 money. How would you suggest they get involved? Well, number one, they got to
00:06:17.420 understand how blockchain works. Perfect. How long do you think that might take
00:06:21.260 somebody? Depends on their background. Like for me, it didn't take too long. Like I
00:06:25.100 think even sitting down with somebody and just doodling it out. Yeah. And looking at
00:06:29.360 some YouTube videos that we have. And you've done some whiteboard. Yeah, I've done
00:06:32.060 whiteboard for that. Just doing that and maybe just really understand and taking
00:06:35.840 your time instead of just like, most people skim through stuff, let's be honest, right?
00:06:38.880 Yeah.
00:06:39.880 When you read a blog, like, oh, I get ready.
00:06:40.880 Yeah, what's the big idea?
00:06:41.880 Yeah, the headline, you know, sub-headline, oh, I got it, I'm good.
00:06:44.720 I'm a pro.
00:06:45.720 Yeah, I'm a pro.
00:06:46.720 I'm an expert.
00:06:47.720 But really take your time and reread an art.
00:06:49.340 Like for me to understand crypto economics, and I'm not an expert at all, like I just
00:06:52.720 understand the 30,000-foot view.
00:06:54.680 It took me two to three months.
00:06:56.720 Totally.
00:06:57.720 I'm just reading and writing and reading and writing, reading and writing, I'm like,
00:07:00.720 oh, find that kind of thing.
00:07:01.720 And your output was to build this site.
00:07:04.020 It took me six months, nights, like I was, I think I was building clarity, early days
00:07:07.820 of clarity.
00:07:08.820 Yeah.
00:07:09.820 Yeah.
00:07:10.820 We were looking at how do we use Bitcoin as a payment structure.
00:07:11.820 Yeah.
00:07:12.820 Right?
00:07:13.820 Because that was, that was kind of like a great PR angle.
00:07:16.180 And I did that kind of like every night sitting down, you know, laying in bed with my wife
00:07:20.320 watching YouTube videos on Bitcoin.
00:07:22.260 She's just like, what are you doing?
00:07:24.080 Like, why aren't we watching whatever show?
00:07:25.960 I'm just like, there's something there.
00:07:28.260 Yeah.
00:07:29.260 Right?
00:07:30.260 And this was four years ago.
00:07:32.160 But I mean, once they understand it, how do they get the most out of it?
00:07:35.900 How can they...
00:07:36.900 It depends on where they come from.
00:07:39.320 We have a lot of marketers coming into this space right now.
00:07:41.500 Let's use my buddy Ian, who's an accountant, because I think that's probably more...
00:07:44.400 I'll give you a cross-example.
00:07:45.400 How should he get involved?
00:07:46.400 The biggest problem right now in the crypto space, especially for people who actually
00:07:49.680 want to liquidate into cash, is taxes.
00:07:53.020 Like for example, in Canada, it's capital gains tax.
00:07:56.760 But capital gains tax, you have both profit and loss, but profit and loss, depending on
00:08:00.700 entry point.
00:08:01.700 But entry point, you can determine on how much money I sent from my bank account to an exchange.
00:08:06.940 But you can't really determine on the movements I made from exchange to exchange.
00:08:09.960 That's not really trackable for the CRA.
00:08:12.100 So the problem is like, okay, if it's capital gain stocks, I can just claim a loss then, right?
00:08:16.420 So I always recommend accountants to really figure out the jersey.
00:08:19.200 Or if you mined it.
00:08:20.580 Or if you mined it, right?
00:08:21.700 Or if you got it somehow without just investing.
00:08:23.160 Somebody gifted it to you.
00:08:24.480 Yeah, I gifted a ton of Bitcoin.
00:08:25.900 Fuck me too.
00:08:26.480 Yeah, remember?
00:08:27.040 We were saying, well, that's five bucks a Bitcoin.
00:08:28.860 And we were like, oh shit, they're going to probably lose the money because it's like
00:08:32.040 an unsecured wallet.
00:08:33.040 I gifted a fucking couple of dollars.
00:08:34.580 Right now it's like 400 bucks almost.
00:08:36.080 Yeah, nobody paid attention.
00:08:39.280 So you're saying, figuring out what thing they're good at that could apply to the space.
00:08:44.620 Lawyers, accountants, people who specialize in taxes is much needed in this space.
00:08:49.540 Pretty much like anybody in the business infrastructure.
00:08:52.080 Yeah.
00:08:53.080 Programmers.
00:08:54.080 Because, I mean, what happens, like, there was a lot of talk about, like, buy.com, I
00:08:59.920 think, was using crypto, maybe.
00:09:01.880 Like, what's the implications for them?
00:09:03.500 Because, like, they can't stay in crypto if they're purchasing and operating their
00:09:07.100 business in fiat.
00:09:08.540 So they're going to have to, like, there's services that lets people buy in crypto and
00:09:12.260 convert that to fiat so they don't have that exposure?
00:09:14.480 Or is there, like...
00:09:15.040 Well, it depends.
00:09:15.800 Like, let's say you as a Shopify store, you have the option of taking Bitcoin right now.
00:09:20.340 Is that a today thing?
00:09:21.180 Yeah.
00:09:21.520 Oh, okay, cool.
00:09:22.080 It's dependent on you as a store.
00:09:23.960 it depends on you as a business move
00:09:26.960 of what you want to do with that revenue
00:09:28.660 you're either going to throw that
00:09:30.460 as an investment vehicle in your business
00:09:32.300 and let that ride or convert
00:09:34.180 the problem right now with Bitcoin per se
00:09:35.960 it's really fucking slow
00:09:37.640 for you to send a dollar right now
00:09:40.820 it costs you sometimes three bucks
00:09:42.200 I saw half a million dollar transaction
00:09:45.340 and then 13 minutes later
00:09:47.700 it's worth 40% less
00:09:49.040 and there's no liquidity
00:09:50.440 it all depends
00:09:52.560 Right now, Bitcoin isn't, and this is a big war right now going on with Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, Ethereum, Litecoin, Monero.
00:09:58.340 Each of them have a different use case and different technological stuff.
00:10:00.620 And people don't want to invest the time to learn that.
00:10:03.140 That's the part is they're buying stuff without knowing what they're buying.
00:10:06.380 Well, that's for anything.
00:10:07.760 It's not just cryptocurrency.
00:10:08.840 We feel like, I lost money in real estate.
00:10:10.640 I'm like, do you know anything about real estate?
00:10:12.320 Nothing.
00:10:12.880 Now, for me, I don't really invest in stocks.
00:10:14.440 I'm going to be wrong.
00:10:14.780 I have a little bit of stocks, but I haven't really sat down and invested a whole year of my life.
00:10:18.600 The amount of time required to actually be intelligent.
00:10:22.060 Confident enough to be like, I'm going to make my own bet on that.
00:10:24.720 Yeah, yeah.
00:10:25.640 And know that you're competing against some of the smartest people in the world
00:10:28.440 with more resources, time, and energy.
00:10:30.140 And for you to find the small little kind of this little crevice
00:10:34.780 that they have not explored yet.
00:10:36.360 Well, human nature is this.
00:10:37.300 There's a funny meme going around in the crypto space where you have two lineups.
00:10:40.640 One lineup is, tell me when to buy to sell.
00:10:42.600 Another lineup is, I'll actually tell you how it works.
00:10:45.580 Walk me through that.
00:10:46.520 There's a lot.
00:10:47.360 So there's two kiosks.
00:10:49.420 Yeah.
00:10:49.620 Kiosk One is a big sign that says, I will tell you when to buy and sell.
00:10:54.120 Okay.
00:10:54.400 Right?
00:10:54.700 Is that like a done for you?
00:10:55.980 Done for you.
00:10:56.500 Okay, got it.
00:10:56.760 And there's like a big lineup of people like, yeah, I don't want to think.
00:10:58.980 Just tell me what to do.
00:10:59.880 Do it yourself.
00:11:00.280 There's a dude who's like, I have to tell you how it works.
00:11:02.380 Yeah.
00:11:02.620 So make your own call.
00:11:03.620 Like, you're way smarter than 99% of the population.
00:11:05.960 Which the financial markets, I believe, back, I think it was Telex or whatever,
00:11:09.340 like a lot of these early investors, like Ray Dalio from Bridgewater,
00:11:13.120 he used to send out a Telex like 40 years ago,
00:11:16.480 and that was like a communication heartbeat, you know,
00:11:19.420 then it was newsletters and financial news so like that's been around forever
00:11:22.660 it's just a different implementation model today with the with crypto so
00:11:27.280 you're saying if you're in the business of helping businesses or infrastructure
00:11:30.640 on businesses figure out where where the intersection of what they do meets
00:11:34.540 crypto and and kind of like whatever and then spend the time to learn it where's
00:11:40.000 your bets gonna be placed as a block geek slash whatever this accelerator
00:11:45.280 The whole ecosystem, because BlockGeeks focus on all developers of all different platforms,
00:11:50.560 whether you're a Bitcoin core developer, you're an Ethereum developer, whether you're a Hyperledger
00:11:54.380 developer, or the many different blockchains that are slowly coming out right now or emerging
00:11:59.680 overseas.
00:12:00.680 How do you pick what to teach if you're building all this content?
00:12:02.680 Supplying demand.
00:12:03.680 Okay, so you're just going to look at the ones that have the highest search term, volume?
00:12:06.880 Yeah, and also talking to companies, talking to people, talking to projects.
00:12:09.880 Oh, actually talking to financial institutions, saying, hey, where are you guys thinking
00:12:13.000 of bringing your blockchain?
00:12:14.000 going with our hyperledger program yeah because you just realize that's the best implementation
00:12:17.600 yeah and they need it yeah so it's not necessarily because there's a lot of
00:12:20.880 talking bitcoin or no those infrastructure you're just saying like in a lot of these camps they
00:12:24.720 don't like each other like the bitcoin maximalists don't like ethereum right yeah uh and they don't
00:12:30.080 like anything like either bitcoin or nothing so you're approaching it with a capitalist approach
00:12:35.280 yeah but where's the opportunity there's a optimistic approach capitalistic approach but
00:12:39.200 also i want the whole ecosystem to grow as a whole i don't like if you look at organisms and if you
00:12:43.440 And the way you would think about it is kind of like protocols, like SMTP, FTP.
00:12:48.840 Yeah, at least for the next four or five years.
00:12:51.040 Yeah.
00:12:52.040 So essentially, there's the blockchain as an infrastructure like TCP IP.
00:12:55.440 You've got the protocols like the internet, like email, so different applications.
00:12:59.420 And you're saying that you're going to figure out which protocol is being pulled by the
00:13:03.540 corporate market the fastest and let's ramp up, teach those developers to get the base.
00:13:08.440 Yeah, whether it's, like I said, Bitcoin Core, you know, working on the Bitcoin or Ethereum
00:13:13.300 or working on Hyperledger, any of these big platforms, we will provide training.
00:13:18.560 Cool.
00:13:19.200 What's your thoughts on ICOs?
00:13:21.080 I think they're a revolutionary model of raising money.
00:13:23.980 Yeah.
00:13:24.540 And how would you, why are they revolutionary?
00:13:27.660 So like you're-
00:13:28.300 I mean, they're crowdfunding.
00:13:30.260 Yeah, they're actually, they're very similar to crowdfunding as a Kickstarter.
00:13:35.120 The only problem with the difference with a Kickstarter is I have an IOU promise on delivery for a product.
00:13:40.700 Yeah.
00:13:41.200 So essentially it's a pre-purchase.
00:13:42.620 It's a pre-purchase.
00:13:43.500 For an ICO, you're given nothing.
00:13:45.300 You don't have equity in a company.
00:13:46.900 You don't have voting rights in a company.
00:13:48.480 You don't have shares in a company.
00:13:50.260 You don't have dividends in a company.
00:13:52.100 It's vaporware for the most part.
00:13:54.180 Yeah, until something gets materialized.
00:13:56.700 And then the thing you got was essentially the fuel that allows you to use.
00:14:00.660 That's what they say.
00:14:01.420 That's what they say.
00:14:01.960 99% of these ICOs do zero crypto economic, let's say.
00:14:06.240 And that's a whole.
00:14:07.440 That takes a, like, the whole process of figuring out your governance model for your blockchain.
00:14:13.000 And remember, most of these ICOs, they're not, they haven't built their own blockchain.
00:14:16.440 Yeah.
00:14:16.700 They built an ERC-20 token, you know, a computer language token on top of Ethereum.
00:14:20.540 Yeah.
00:14:21.080 And they use Ethereum as their base.
00:14:24.460 And there's not a lot of reference to model against.
00:14:27.940 No.
00:14:28.180 No.
00:14:28.540 No, so essentially they're saying, I'm going to be successful implementing this new token
00:14:33.360 structure and I really don't have a whole lot of best practices to borrow against.
00:14:36.860 So I ask questions, I'm like, number one, why do you need your own token?
00:14:39.300 Why can't you just use Ether and Bitcoin?
00:14:40.840 Because I don't want your shitty token.
00:14:42.140 Yeah.
00:14:43.140 Number two.
00:14:44.140 Meaning that there's liquidity in an Ethereum that wouldn't be.
00:14:46.040 Because I want to hold Ethereum.
00:14:47.040 I don't want to hold your token.
00:14:48.040 Yeah.
00:14:49.040 Like when people say my token is an Ethereum token, really?
00:14:51.240 There's nothing fundamentally promising for me to even use your token.
00:14:55.580 Yeah.
00:14:56.580 Right?
00:14:57.580 of one of the ICUs that actually had a strong argument
00:15:00.720 for a productive use of a token?
00:15:02.620 The recent one would be Filecoin.
00:15:05.020 Okay, and what's unique about Filecoin?
00:15:07.220 So they're looking at storage around the world,
00:15:09.840 so how many tera hashes and giga hashes of free space
00:15:12.880 is on hard drives around the world,
00:15:14.520 which you can crowdsource that resource.
00:15:16.860 If people are willing to contribute to that.
00:15:18.740 Yeah, so that one was the latest one I like,
00:15:21.660 and there's also, what was the one that just happened
00:15:25.840 right now. Polkadot. So that's a side chain to help scale blockchains. I personally don't
00:15:33.840 like it as good as I like it. From a higher volume transaction speed?
00:15:36.840 Yeah, exactly. So it's pegged against, is it a Bitcoin or Ethereum blockchain?
00:15:40.840 It can be used for now for Ethereum, but there's companies like Cosmos upstairs that
00:15:46.840 we work with that might be interoperability in the future.
00:15:49.840 Okay, amongst multiple blockchains. So think about this as a scaling solution. You have
00:15:53.840 You have all these different blockchains and you can use this scaling platform to interconnect
00:15:57.220 everything together.
00:15:58.220 Yeah.
00:15:59.220 And then you can have something called...
00:16:00.220 Essentially, it's almost like a layer switch, like in the network space.
00:16:02.220 Yes.
00:16:03.220 Yeah.
00:16:04.220 So between protocols, different levels of layers.
00:16:06.020 Is there somebody trying to pull together the best practices and patterns for these
00:16:09.900 things?
00:16:10.900 Yeah.
00:16:11.900 So who's...
00:16:12.900 Like that's looking across Ethereum and Bitcoin and...
00:16:15.020 There's a bunch of people working in this space, but once again, we haven't defined
00:16:17.860 exactly what crypto economics is.
00:16:19.860 Yeah.
00:16:20.860 Crypto-economics in Ethereum is a little bit different than Bitcoin.
00:16:24.860 Crypto-economics in, let's say, Cosmos upstairs where they run is a little bit different than
00:16:29.340 anybody else.
00:16:30.340 Everyone has their own definition.
00:16:31.340 So I think we're very early right now to figure out what is some fundamental key principles
00:16:36.860 that we can use.
00:16:37.860 There's people right now.
00:16:38.860 You have Vlad from Ethereum Foundation, you have Vitalik, you have the Bitcoin core team.
00:16:42.860 You have people from Cosmos, people from Polkadot, people from Mio in China.
00:16:47.260 How big is the market right now?
00:16:48.260 Total market.
00:16:49.260 I think north of $200 billion.
00:16:51.260 $200 billion worth of value has been created from this technology that arguably four or
00:16:57.100 five years ago would have been considered maybe like...
00:17:00.260 A joke.
00:17:01.260 Yeah, a joke, a pyramid scheme.
00:17:03.260 They're still considered a joke by many.
00:17:05.260 Fair enough.
00:17:06.260 Where do you see the potential for this in the next five years?
00:17:10.260 Surpass a trillion dollars.
00:17:12.260 Trillion dollar total.
00:17:14.260 And do you have any thoughts on price of Bitcoin, price of Ethereum?
00:17:17.260 I mean, I know you don't like it to me.
00:17:18.260 It's hard to predict.
00:17:19.260 Yeah.
00:17:20.260 Because you don't know if it could just, like, it could, it just takes one developer to do,
00:17:23.020 I mean, recently.
00:17:24.020 Like, Ethereum has its own issues, but it's not Ethereum itself.
00:17:26.760 It's all these wallets and apps, the plug-in, like, for example, Parity is a multi-sig wallet,
00:17:32.720 which had a faulty code.
00:17:33.720 Yeah.
00:17:34.720 50 million or something.
00:17:35.720 More, man.
00:17:36.720 Was it more?
00:17:37.720 Coming up to, like, 300 million dollars locked away.
00:17:39.300 Oh, that was it.
00:17:40.300 300 million.
00:17:41.300 So, somebody changed something by accident.
00:17:42.300 Someone found an exploit in a bug, and it wasn't malicious.
00:17:46.620 It wasn't like, what is this?
00:17:47.780 Yeah, and when he was exploring it, essentially, it changed the signature for the wallet.
00:17:52.500 And he's like, I'm the owner now, but it got locked up, and now, like, $300 million is locked, and no one can touch it.
00:17:56.820 You can see it's almost like a clear safe.
00:17:58.560 Imagine us looking at a translucent safe, like, oh, there's the money, but...
00:18:01.920 Nobody can get in it.
00:18:02.760 Nobody's got the key.
00:18:04.260 And arguably, you'll never get it, because if you could, then it would question the whole infrastructure.
00:18:09.860 Well, no, people, for this one, they're going to take their time, but as we stand a second,
00:18:17.060 no one can access it.
00:18:18.460 Yeah.
00:18:19.460 Nobody.
00:18:20.460 But is there a potential way to get in?
00:18:21.460 Well, if Ethereum does a hard fork like they did with the DAO, so the DAO…
00:18:24.960 They're not going to do a hard fork for $300 million, are they?
00:18:26.960 No, they won't.
00:18:27.960 No.
00:18:28.960 Vitalik came out, so it wouldn't do nothing.
00:18:29.960 So essentially, it's gone.
00:18:30.960 Yeah, unless the actual parity company itself bites the bullet and pays out.
00:18:34.260 Pays out what?
00:18:35.260 The money.
00:18:36.260 But, I mean, what's their valuation?
00:18:38.260 I don't know.
00:18:39.260 It's not 300 million.
00:18:40.280 Parity's a tech company.
00:18:41.180 They're the ones who were offering the wallet.
00:18:43.000 Imagine you're a tech company offering security for somebody and you get exploited.
00:18:47.500 Typically, you have insurance, but I'm pretty sure nobody's going to touch that.
00:18:50.100 There's no insurance for this.
00:18:51.000 No.
00:18:51.500 No.
00:18:52.100 That's another big matter.
00:18:52.640 So arguably, I mean, unless they bite the bullet, agreed, the chances of that happening
00:18:57.500 very low.
00:18:59.280 So essentially, it's gone.
00:19:00.800 As we stand this second.
00:19:02.000 As we stand.
00:19:02.560 So you're saying you're going to get involved in the ecosystem.
00:19:10.000 You've got the online education.
00:19:11.600 You've got essentially the free content, which is BlockGeeks.com.
00:19:14.860 You're going to create some training programs.
00:19:16.260 We already started creating, and we have full in-house teachers upstairs.
00:19:18.480 Okay, that's what that was.
00:19:19.600 I saw those people.
00:19:20.620 And then what is that called?
00:19:22.380 That's BlockGeeks.
00:19:23.080 Okay, BlockGeeks is both the free content.
00:19:24.800 So the lead generation for us, there's two lead generations we have.
00:19:27.320 We have our guides, which gives us up to three.
00:19:28.880 And anybody could do this.
00:19:29.940 Like, that's the big thing that I feel like people don't understand is there's nothing
00:19:33.520 unique to Amir that said, you're anointed, right?
00:19:38.080 You just said, I'm going to spend the time and energy to understand this, interact with
00:19:40.700 people, build the network, produce content that's valuable.
00:19:43.120 And also not be greedy and not be sucked up because like I did my own, I've been approached
00:19:47.780 by many people.
00:19:48.780 I know all the crypto funds in this space.
00:19:49.780 I've been approached by many people doing ICO for Block Geeks.
00:19:52.420 I could have easily raised $50 million.
00:19:54.300 Easily.
00:19:55.300 Easily.
00:19:56.300 I've got more morals and ethics for that and I actually want to build a business that makes
00:19:58.860 money.
00:19:59.860 That's a hard part for me is I've got probably six friends that have created ICOs and privately I can't stand behind them.
00:20:10.180 And I'll put a million dollar bet on it and all of them burn.
00:20:12.400 I know and that's the part where it's like there's one thing of not participating and there's another part where it's like I really feel it's unethical.
00:20:20.880 I know that there's a lot of money to be made.
00:20:22.640 Yeah.
00:20:23.080 I know that in some way you've spun it in your mind that it's okay to do it.
00:20:27.940 But at the end of the day, unless there's something you know that I don't know.
00:20:31.320 Well, there's two camps I would say for this.
00:20:33.480 There's people who, like maybe your friends are in Camp A.
00:20:35.920 There's people who really don't know the space and they really view it as, oh, this token is a cool thing and it's all about raising money.
00:20:41.220 I've got to believe that's what it is.
00:20:42.720 And there's Camp 2, where it's like, I know everything.
00:20:45.320 Yeah.
00:20:46.120 And I know exactly what I'm doing.
00:20:48.420 Yeah.
00:20:48.780 Right?
00:20:49.120 They're the malicious, intelligent people.
00:20:51.280 They know exactly.
00:20:52.360 Majority of people are Camp A.
00:20:53.620 Like if you look at their ICOs, like these guys don't know what the fuck they're doing.
00:20:56.060 Yeah, and you can tell by their white paper.
00:20:57.500 Everything, right?
00:20:58.380 Yeah.
00:20:58.560 Right.
00:20:58.820 So they're not professional scammers.
00:21:02.140 They just aren't aware.
00:21:03.680 Yeah.
00:21:04.100 Right.
00:21:04.260 They haven't done their due diligence and see a money.
00:21:06.040 Like, oh, I couldn't raise money from.
00:21:07.360 I always tell people, like, why do you need $20 million at the beginning?
00:21:10.640 Right.
00:21:10.780 First of all, the majority of these tokens are not even real business models.
00:21:14.200 The business model is speculation, which is not a business.
00:21:17.420 Second, I always tell people, why do you need even a million dollars to start?
00:21:20.020 Like, why can't you even go make me an MVP?
00:21:21.920 Like, why can't you go on, oh, what's the wireframe online?
00:21:25.580 Envision.
00:21:26.060 Go on fucking InVision, hire a guy for $1,000 on InVision.
00:21:29.080 And that's fancy.
00:21:29.820 That's fancy, too, right?
00:21:30.860 I'm like UXP or Balsamic, even lower fidelity.
00:21:33.800 So $1,000.
00:21:34.600 Hire a dude on Upwork for $1,000 on InVision and get your thing made for me so I can physically see it.
00:21:40.480 See it, yeah.
00:21:41.400 Explain it to me.
00:21:42.140 Like, no one's taking these steps.
00:21:43.200 This written word thing, copy-paste, white paper.
00:21:45.300 And you see these some ICOs are raising $50 million, $200 million, but it's slowed down right now.
00:21:48.860 The saturation's gone.
00:21:49.800 Thank goodness.
00:21:50.500 I mean, it's just overcapitalization is an argument as well.
00:21:54.040 It's tough because there's, you know, the innovator in me, the capitalist in me that's excited for this new method of funding.
00:22:01.520 I don't want to slow down innovation.
00:22:04.040 You know, I believe that...
00:22:04.900 Well, majority of these ICOs aren't innovating anything.
00:22:07.500 Anything at all.
00:22:08.780 Fair enough.
00:22:09.720 I guess there's also the part that it's exposing people to a new market.
00:22:13.220 And you know what I mean?
00:22:13.720 Like, sometimes there's the motivation, right?
00:22:15.360 Like, you need to be motivated to learn something.
00:22:17.680 And sometimes the upside is the motivation, right?
00:22:19.900 So, like, people learn how to code the internet just because they're like, this is going to
00:22:24.060 be a big thing, not necessarily because they were passionate about it.
00:22:26.520 Don't get me wrong.
00:22:27.520 I think it's a necessary evil.
00:22:28.860 Yeah.
00:22:29.860 And that's the thing that I'm, like, torn with because it's like, yes, there was a lot
00:22:33.940 of people burned.
00:22:34.940 And I guess that's the problem.
00:22:36.160 I don't mind the folks that willingly know this is a very unproven market and they know
00:22:40.240 that there's risk, especially a lot of the investors buying the currency, right?
00:22:43.460 Like, you know, when I got involved in Bitcoin, I knew very well this could go to zero.
00:22:48.440 There was no liquidity, per se.
00:22:49.940 I was cool holding this for 30 years.
00:22:51.940 I don't really, at the end of the day, it's either going to be huge success or huge failure.
00:22:57.020 But most people don't have that, and a lot of people funding these ICOs, and maybe they're
00:23:00.940 not.
00:23:01.940 Maybe it's my assumption that a lot of these people are not educated.
00:23:03.420 Maybe they're educated.
00:23:04.420 Maybe they just want to be participating in the upside and some of them get stuck on
00:23:06.880 the downside.
00:23:07.880 I don't know.
00:23:08.880 Do you think people are getting burned?
00:23:12.560 I see a lot of white papers.
00:23:14.460 I get pitched every day, like ridiculous amounts.
00:23:18.740 I would say 99% of people.
00:23:20.420 Do you have like a standard video response right now
00:23:22.100 you're just sending people or?
00:23:23.440 I just don't reply.
00:23:24.340 I don't give a fuck.
00:23:25.180 Okay, you just don't even reply.
00:23:26.020 Like some of them looks.
00:23:27.820 I mean if people follow you on Facebook.
00:23:28.980 It looks enticing like some white papers.
00:23:31.000 And like people understand like,
00:23:32.340 for good proper white paper and auditing the team
00:23:34.760 and talking, it takes me like a fucking week.
00:23:37.140 You know what I mean?
00:23:37.980 It's like, do your due diligence.
00:23:39.480 Yeah.
00:23:40.760 I would honestly say 99% have no clue what they're doing.
00:23:43.640 No clue.
00:23:44.420 The talent's not out there.
00:23:45.420 I'll give you an example.
00:23:46.420 At the most, there's maybe 500, 600 legitimate full-stack devs who understand blockchain.
00:23:52.360 And then how many crypto-economic experts?
00:23:54.360 Maybe less than 20, 30.
00:23:55.360 Yeah, not a lot.
00:23:56.360 In the globe.
00:23:57.360 So essentially, you're saying, I'm making the bet on the free content, I'm then creating
00:24:01.080 the training program, and then there's an accelerator of sorts.
00:24:04.180 Yeah, so that's L4 with Dimitri, Jason, so I'm there right now as more special advisor
00:24:09.800 for them right now.
00:24:10.960 So what we're focusing on, so it's Dimitri, it's Jason Matheson, we have Ethan, we have
00:24:16.280 Josh, we have Richard, and then we have Liam Horne, am I missing anybody, oh and Jeff Coleman,
00:24:22.080 oh and Vlad, there's a bunch of people.
00:24:24.240 So basically our main thing is we're focusing on protocol layer thing and we're going to
00:24:28.340 be focusing on companies.
00:24:29.340 So multiple companies focus on protocol.
00:24:31.340 Yeah.
00:24:32.340 Elise right now.
00:24:33.340 Yeah.
00:24:34.340 And what is the expectation of these companies, are they revenue generating through corporate
00:24:38.840 support?
00:24:39.840 state channels, which every blockchain in the world needs.
00:24:43.340 Okay, what is this?
00:24:44.340 State channels.
00:24:45.340 So you can scale, I think, million transactions in a second.
00:24:47.340 Okay, so it's like blocking on the chain?
00:24:49.340 So it's off-chain.
00:24:50.340 Yeah.
00:24:51.340 Off-chain solution, where all the transactions of a business will be done on this,
00:24:55.340 but when we actually have to confirm if everything's legit, then it talks back to the root blockchain.
00:24:59.340 Yeah, essentially it like packages it up into what it should look like and it says,
00:25:02.340 is this good?
00:25:03.340 So think about like, yeah, exactly.
00:25:04.340 Sort of information, let's double check.
00:25:05.340 It's transactions for a database, essentially for blockchain.
00:25:08.340 We announced that, no monetization system for that.
00:25:12.480 So is it going to be open source with a...
00:25:14.400 Okay, so is it going to be a support,
00:25:15.660 like a traditional open source kind of revenue model?
00:25:18.540 There might be ways to monetize that in the future,
00:25:21.700 we don't know, but this is...
00:25:22.660 But we know open source has, you know, there's been...
00:25:26.400 I think right now we're in a revolution of open source.
00:25:28.440 Like the blockchains of the future that succeed
00:25:30.460 will be all 100% open source.
00:25:32.500 Yeah, that way that they can be trusted,
00:25:35.000 they can get adoption.
00:25:36.040 I mean, it's Linux, it's, I mean, these are-
00:25:38.540 The reason why Linux didn't take,
00:25:39.660 and don't get me wrong, Linux took off, right?
00:25:41.660 It's the biggest open source project.
00:25:42.500 It took a while.
00:25:43.620 There's no incentive, and now,
00:25:44.700 imagine now you have incentive,
00:25:46.400 where you can be an early developer on a platform,
00:25:48.260 like one of these-
00:25:49.100 Oh, you're saying that some of the developers
00:25:50.740 contributing are gonna get paid in coins?
00:25:52.660 Well, look at Ethereum.
00:25:55.700 I don't understand, so developers on Ethereum
00:25:58.500 get paid in Ethereum if they crave value?
00:26:01.120 The early people that worked on Ethereum,
00:26:03.120 whether it was in Ethereum or Ethereum related projects,
00:26:06.580 got paid an Ethereum token back then.
00:26:08.460 Who paid them?
00:26:09.660 The foundation.
00:26:10.620 Okay, so that was like on contract,
00:26:12.740 they had like bug bounties or?
00:26:14.040 Yeah, bug bounties or like they have, let's say.
00:26:18.140 See this is, even the bounty concept,
00:26:19.840 I know that Google.
00:26:20.680 BlockGeeks has bounty coming up in a month.
00:26:22.380 Dude, there's a company now that does this at scale
00:26:24.680 for Google, Microsoft,
00:26:27.340 like they essentially manage the bounty program.
00:26:29.520 So Zeppelin is one of the biggest dev teams
00:26:31.800 in the blockchain space really good.
00:26:33.260 They're located in Argentina,
00:26:35.020 and they're just creating this consensus model around
00:26:37.640 where they're gonna create open source bug bounties
00:26:40.120 for all these different blockchain programs.
00:26:42.000 Even BlockGeeks are having bounties.
00:26:43.340 So basically, what we're having is you get paid in Ether.
00:26:46.020 So let's say your student,
00:26:46.940 they're like, oh cool, I just did a bunch of these courses,
00:26:48.580 I know some information.
00:26:49.680 Another dev comes around and asks a question,
00:26:52.280 I don't wanna spend hours on Stack Exchange or GitHub.
00:26:54.720 Yeah, trying to answer it.
00:26:55.600 Yeah, I'm like, listen, 20 bucks worth of Ether,
00:26:57.520 and you already know the answer
00:26:58.480 because he took our courses.
00:26:59.420 Like, fuck, I want 20 bucks in Ether.
00:27:01.140 Go answer, within 24 hours, you get your ether.
00:27:03.260 This is an interesting model that I think
00:27:05.900 it really takes that whole idea of crowdfunding
00:27:09.720 or crowd, you know, whatever the Wikipedia.
00:27:13.640 Well, they just launched their blog, too,
00:27:15.600 if you saw Wiki Tribune,
00:27:17.380 where they do crowdsourcing information
00:27:19.760 for if this is real or not information.
00:27:21.900 Oh, that needs to happen.
00:27:23.260 So it's kind of like, what's that site that would do that?
00:27:26.640 Crowdsourcing?
00:27:27.600 No, they were about like, if it's real news or not.
00:27:30.140 Snoops?
00:27:30.980 Yeah, Snoops.
00:27:31.800 Yeah, so kind of like Snoops, but a little different.
00:27:33.640 Well, Snoops is centralized, controlled by one person.
00:27:35.020 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:27:35.860 It's like, oh, die, whatever, die, die.
00:27:36.780 That's a problem.
00:27:37.620 So their bias is definitely going to show up in their editorial.
00:27:40.280 So this is kind of like crowdsourced, unbiased.
00:27:45.020 So you create, is it an incubator then, or are the companies?
00:27:48.840 Yeah.
00:27:49.340 Okay, so the companies are being created through that advisory board.
00:27:52.820 L4, yeah.
00:27:53.660 The talent is, I'm assuming, going to come from the training?
00:27:55.580 Yeah, there's going to be a bunch who want to apply afterwards, yeah, definitely.
00:28:00.060 Like I said, we're very early in the stage right now,
00:28:02.600 and it's the next four or five years all experimental.
00:28:06.980 There's gonna be a lot of failures,
00:28:08.040 both through the ashes, Phoenix rises.
00:28:10.120 So I think right now, wherever you are,
00:28:12.180 if you're in for the long game, you're good.
00:28:14.680 What's your, as we wrap up,
00:28:16.400 what's the thing that you're most excited about
00:28:19.800 over the next five years in this space?
00:28:22.220 Seeing it grow globally.
00:28:23.880 So even right now, even though crypto,
00:28:26.060 in our inner circle, it's like, oh, it's older age.
00:28:28.500 Go walk on the street.
00:28:29.600 What is Ethereum?
00:28:30.560 What the fuck is this, right?
00:28:31.980 $200 billion, Netflix is $200 billion.
00:28:34.620 Netflix comes around.
00:28:35.800 Ray Dalio Bridgewater is $150 billion fund, right?
00:28:38.760 One fund, right?
00:28:41.060 The big national wealth funds from UAE or Dubai,
00:28:43.720 they want to invest in a minimum $100 billion, right?
00:28:46.240 So we're still small.
00:28:47.180 For me, I want global,
00:28:48.440 the biggest problem in the crypto space right now is like-
00:28:50.120 Too small.
00:28:50.960 It's small, plus there's no talent.
00:28:52.040 So I want to literally train 10,000 devs a year.
00:28:54.660 Is there value though, okay,
00:28:56.100 so let's say it goes from $200 billion to a trillion.
00:28:59.420 That increase is gonna come from the price increase
00:29:03.080 based on demand.
00:29:04.900 Is there value arguments for that level of demand
00:29:08.820 on the currency?
00:29:09.880 I wouldn't say it's demand,
00:29:11.040 I would say it's more hedging.
00:29:12.380 So a lot of these people are coming in,
00:29:13.940 they're looking, like, the fiat is, people-
00:29:15.660 So are they truly hedging against global
00:29:17.480 potential economic downturn?
00:29:19.020 Yeah, at least right now, Bitcoin and like Monero,
00:29:22.440 Ether, maybe in the future, it's a good hedge.
00:29:24.480 Like, look at fiat currency.
00:29:26.160 You have inflationary rates of 2% minimum per year, times that by inflationary rates of everything else around you comes on average that your dollar has an inflationary rate of 5% per year minimum.
00:29:38.240 Yeah, easily.
00:29:39.080 So you're just sitting on your money in the bank is the worst possible thing you can do.
00:29:42.500 Yeah, yeah, the day long for it to go to a whole lot of nothing.
00:29:44.100 So a lot of these people are trying to look at it.
00:29:45.620 And plus, crypto is a brand new asset class in general.
00:29:47.940 So they're looking like, how can I hedge my bets against something?
00:29:50.640 At least maybe have maybe 1% to 5% of my portfolio within crypto.
00:29:54.580 That's awesome.
00:29:55.140 Cool, dude. Appreciate it, man.
00:29:57.260 Thanks for having me on.
00:29:58.260 Dan and I were talking about cryptocurrency, blockchain technology.
00:30:02.500 It's pretty much all the rage today.
00:30:04.360 Our company, BlockGeeks, focus on training developers online.
00:30:07.100 So if you're like a junior stack developer or even a senior stack
00:30:09.300 looking to learn about whether Ethereum or Bitcoin coding
00:30:12.380 or Hyperledger coding, we offer that services.
00:30:14.760 Plus, we're the world's largest blockchain educator online.
00:30:18.060 But the whole notion of the talk Dan and I just had is
00:30:20.400 with this new ecosystem happening right now,
00:30:22.640 regardless of if you are a developer,
00:30:25.520 if you're an accountant, if you're a marketer,
00:30:27.040 if you're just a curious bee,
00:30:28.780 is like really take your time
00:30:29.940 and understand what this technology is.
00:30:31.800 It's not like anything other before,
00:30:35.180 or it's not like anything came.
00:30:36.980 Let me phrase this.
00:30:38.320 There's never been a technology like this before.
00:30:40.480 And this technology isn't new.
00:30:41.900 It's just how they stack this technology together
00:30:43.840 to create a new ecosystem around it.
00:30:45.820 So my advice to anybody is really understand
00:30:47.560 how the blockchain works.
00:30:49.080 Take your time.
00:30:49.820 Don't rush, right?
00:30:50.700 It took me a while to understand it.
00:30:52.040 and once you do understand it then you can figure out how you can contribute to it we're just at the
00:30:56.040 beginning right now like imagine i always give it the the the comparison to like netscape like
00:31:02.440 netscape came out like what 20 something years ago give or take we're on that stage of the blockchain
00:31:06.840 so we got like 20 plus years to go till we see maturation like look at e-commerce like for
00:31:12.040 example in china 90 of purchases is done on wechat right on mobile but if you look at for example
00:31:19.080 North America I don't even think so it's north of 20% for e-commerce but even e-commerce has a
00:31:23.320 long way to go so we're at the haze we're just at the very beginning of blockchain technology so
00:31:28.360 my advice to anybody regardless of it like I said if you're a developer if you're an accountant if
00:31:33.160 you're a lawyer whoever you are understand the technologies join your local meetup go to
00:31:37.000 Go to BlockGeeks.com and get involved.