Dan Martell - January 18, 2018


Episode #7 Role-Playing Your Webinarsw⧸ Marcel Petitpas, CoFounder⧸CEO Parakeeto


Episode Stats


Length

26 minutes

Words per minute

199.84634

Word count

5,289

Sentence count

214

Harmful content

Toxicity

13

sentences flagged

Hate speech

1

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, I sit down with the CEO of Parakito to talk about why they created a webinar to help entrepreneurs understand who their customer is and how they can deliver value to them through affiliate partners.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.040 What's up dude? This conversation is really fun, really helping an entrepreneur understand who
00:00:07.980 their customer was specifically around putting together a webinar to help them not only add a
00:00:13.200 ton of value but also do it through a promotion through a partner and then making sure that they
00:00:17.240 kind of transition from adding the value to delivering a product that's really going to
00:00:22.680 meet their needs and get a lot of value from that. So really fun conversation, talked about the why,
00:00:27.040 I talked about the team, talked about the conflict
00:00:28.900 on product roadmap, getting customer feedback,
00:00:31.580 all that to just really make sure that they leverage
00:00:35.320 and use role playing, so key in your business
00:00:38.580 so that you don't go into a meeting cold
00:00:40.920 and you don't have the intention set.
00:00:42.360 So I think you guys are gonna really enjoy this one.
00:00:47.060 What a day, man.
00:00:48.220 Good to be here.
00:00:49.060 I love the rain.
00:00:49.900 Yeah.
00:00:50.740 Alright, dude, I'm here for you.
00:00:52.260 what would make this conversation
00:00:58.240 just incredible for you?
00:01:00.260 I want to go into this webinar
00:01:02.640 that's supposed to be scheduled
00:01:03.520 feeling like I know exactly
00:01:05.220 what I need to do to execute
00:01:06.760 at the highest possible level.
00:01:07.580 Cool, so unpack what you've got going on
00:01:10.140 so I can get context
00:01:11.160 just kind of, you know,
00:01:11.960 every time I talk to an entrepreneur,
00:01:13.220 things reset.
00:01:15.200 So Parakeeto,
00:01:16.680 so talk to me about the company
00:01:18.060 and the webinar
00:01:18.620 and kind of what would 10 out of 10
00:01:20.560 look like for you.
00:01:21.420 Absolutely.
00:01:21.740 So, Parakito is a project that recently started doing customer development on to try and validate
00:01:27.660 that there was a real need for it.
00:01:29.060 Essentially, we saw that there was an issue with creative marketing development agencies
00:01:33.980 that the founders are so inundated with work, especially when the agency is kind of small,
00:01:39.260 under 30 employees, that they don't really track the numbers or the metrics that they
00:01:43.280 need in order to work on the business.
00:01:44.200 Yeah, they don't have any dashboarding, financial projections, all that stuff.
00:01:48.420 Cool.
00:01:48.640 So, agencies that have issues.
00:01:51.220 So, we'll get to the webinar, but what would be true in their business that would make them feel like they need this solution?
00:01:57.780 What's going on?
00:01:58.560 Essentially, the founders are just tired of being inundated with work, being in the business.
00:02:03.760 If you really want to get granular, a lot of them that I speak to have kids, family.
00:02:07.260 Yeah, because I mean, like the inundated, like that's every business.
00:02:12.340 But what, like to me, there's usually something.
00:02:15.320 Like, have you ever had a really shitty day?
00:02:18.200 Have you ever like had a moment where you're like, enough's enough?
00:02:20.420 Yeah.
00:02:20.820 What happened?
00:02:22.500 They lost a shitload of money.
00:02:23.620 No, no, you.
00:02:24.200 What happened?
00:02:24.500 Oh, for me.
00:02:25.100 Yeah, like what happened in that moment where a thing was,
00:02:28.520 like it doesn't have to be like,
00:02:29.440 we don't need to get like super personal,
00:02:31.340 but like if you can remember a moment
00:02:33.340 where you're just like enough's enough,
00:02:35.040 what happened in that moment?
00:02:38.220 Yeah, I lost a bunch of clients.
00:02:40.000 Perfect.
00:02:40.640 Yeah.
00:02:41.100 So that like,
00:02:42.360 that pain is what you need to connect with
00:02:46.360 when you think about creating content,
00:02:48.660 when you think about marketing,
00:02:49.860 because that's the message that your customer
00:02:53.340 is going to go, this is a now thing.
00:02:56.500 You know, at the end of the day, certain,
00:02:58.320 you know, you could say like,
00:02:59.040 my customer is a million to five million a year agency
00:03:01.300 in the creative space, blah, blah, blah.
00:03:02.640 Those are all great things,
00:03:03.760 but something needs to be true 1.00
00:03:05.360 about the shit that they just ate, right, 1.00
00:03:07.980 that makes it a now thing. 0.99
00:03:09.880 And I think that getting clear of like,
00:03:12.500 their accountant just called them and told them like,
00:03:14.680 by the way, you're not going to be able to make payroll
00:03:16.280 or, you know, three of their top,
00:03:18.860 Like two of the top three clients that make up 80% of the revenue just quit them in the last, you know, four days.
00:03:27.000 Like something bad happened that they are now saying enough's enough.
00:03:31.800 I need an answer to this, right?
00:03:34.560 So to me, you know, I think it's really important to make a list of those five things
00:03:40.040 and always have them front of mind anytime you do anything.
00:03:44.140 So what are those five moments that just happened to this entrepreneur that I can serve them and really help them?
00:03:50.160 So that's the big thing.
00:03:51.740 So it sounds like you're clear on who the customer is.
00:03:54.500 How are you going to fill the webinar?
00:03:56.640 So we're going to do an affiliate webinar with John.
00:04:01.020 I have nothing wrong with affiliates.
00:04:04.300 I have a problem with the word affiliate.
00:04:06.420 So I like calling them promotional partners.
00:04:08.600 Cool.
00:04:09.320 Because I like the word partner.
00:04:11.420 I think words matter.
00:04:12.140 You agree, words matter.
00:04:13.040 Yeah, for sure.
00:04:13.760 Affiliate just feels too transactional.
00:04:15.820 I don't want affiliates, I want partners.
00:04:17.600 I want people that are gonna invest the time
00:04:19.800 to build something together
00:04:21.200 that's gonna really serve the community.
00:04:23.400 And I know sometimes they call it even worse
00:04:24.940 than affiliates, personally, and I feel bad
00:04:26.500 because I have friends in the space
00:04:27.480 that actually have programs called this, is JV.
00:04:30.520 Like, you know what I mean?
00:04:31.980 Even JV, it's like, it's just,
00:04:34.220 they can't even say it, joint venture.
00:04:36.540 It's like, just call it a partnership.
00:04:38.220 Anyways, this is a little side tangent.
00:04:40.580 Cool, so you've got a promotional partner with somebody
00:04:43.020 And what's the arrangement?
00:04:45.480 Like, what are they going to drive?
00:04:46.440 So we've got a call on Wednesday to actually figure out what's the arrangement.
00:04:52.540 And so my job is to close the webinar on that call and say, this is the cut.
00:04:57.380 So what I want is for him to bring his list to the webinar.
00:05:00.640 He's sold to a ton of agencies that fit exactly who we are, and they've already bought from
00:05:05.280 him and gotten value from him.
00:05:06.980 So I want him to bring them on the webinar and then essentially give us an opportunity
00:05:10.820 to add some value, present an offer, give them a cut.
00:05:14.360 And so we're really just trying to figure out.
00:05:15.700 What do you want the split to be?
00:05:18.320 Pretty standard, I think, is about 30% to 40%
00:05:20.920 is what I'm seeing as a, is that,
00:05:23.420 I mean, that's something you could advise me on, I guess.
00:05:25.240 Yeah, I mean, it all depends, right?
00:05:26.960 What's the price point?
00:05:27.800 What are you going to sell the product at?
00:05:29.400 I think $1,000 for a year.
00:05:30.940 Yeah, so usually at $1,000 price point,
00:05:32.800 they're going to want at least,
00:05:33.760 because you got to think is like typically
00:05:35.000 they're promoting stuff to their audience
00:05:36.900 that is probably in the $2,000 level
00:05:39.420 and they're going to get 50%,
00:05:40.460 they're going to do 1,000.
00:05:41.820 So if they're going to spend the same amount of energy
00:05:44.360 promoting a partner, they want similar economics.
00:05:47.600 So you may even have to go 60-40 just to get their interest
00:05:51.720 because otherwise they can just go to their other partners
00:05:54.920 and say, hey, I want to do another one of those,
00:05:57.040 which is something that, you know, it's always,
00:06:00.260 the end of the day, it's, you know,
00:06:01.440 people always kind of quantify things based on
00:06:04.800 kind of like revenue by, like revenue per activity.
00:06:08.880 So what's the kind of potential outcome?
00:06:13.280 The other thing is partners typically want to know
00:06:15.420 that you've done this before.
00:06:16.460 So you're gonna have that uphill battle
00:06:18.500 if you've never done it before, right?
00:06:20.700 You're essentially gonna be, the first webinar you do
00:06:24.320 to sell this product is gonna be with him.
00:06:26.960 If he is a sophisticated marketer,
00:06:29.460 he's gonna bring that up.
00:06:30.980 You need to bring that up yourself
00:06:32.520 and have a really great answer for that.
00:06:35.720 See what I'm saying?
00:06:36.800 Because he's only got one shot.
00:06:38.480 So at the end of the day, he's got an audience.
00:06:40.320 Yes, he wants to serve them.
00:06:41.480 Yes, he wants to add a ton of value and stuff,
00:06:44.560 but it's still a promotional schedule.
00:06:47.680 Like I have a promotional calendar for the year.
00:06:50.660 I have so many promotional spots to do things
00:06:53.240 to serve my community, and I can't have those things
00:06:56.080 not perform because those are part of the business model.
00:07:03.040 So it may be 50-50, it may be 60-40,
00:07:05.760 just because of the $1,000 price point.
00:07:07.720 what else can I help with
00:07:10.860 so
00:07:12.280 the actual webinar
00:07:14.700 structure and the offer structure
00:07:17.000 why are you building this business
00:07:18.140 why am I building this business
00:07:19.980 why is Marcel building this business
00:07:21.740 that's a good question
00:07:23.220 I think I've been attracted to
00:07:27.180 building a tech business because of how hard it is
00:07:29.820 like I've learned so much in the last
00:07:31.680 three years that the opportunity to
00:07:33.580 push myself to a whole new level
00:07:35.160 I heard going to the Olympics is really hard too
00:07:37.060 yeah so why oh man there's something about it like i want to build a team i want to build a
00:07:46.900 great workplace i think that's why this business this particular business
00:07:51.580 the people around it like a co-founder is great it's the first time i've had a technical co-founder
00:07:59.440 that like i really get along with yeah so that's huge i mean being in it with people that i'm like
00:08:04.700 yeah i could spend the next few years like 10 20 years like going to work with this person
00:08:10.120 yeah is that's big there's a lot to be said for building a product as a byproduct of finding a
00:08:17.080 great team right and a great problem too i think it's a fantastic problem i mean the more time i
00:08:22.420 spend speaking to the entrepreneur that we're serving like the more i care they're like they're
00:08:27.080 the ones that either they figure this out and they either do it themselves or they use a product like
00:08:31.840 yours. They don't have a tool, that's why you're
00:08:33.900 building it. And they're the ones that end
00:08:35.940 up building the $5, $10 million, $20 million a year
00:08:37.880 agency, or they don't. 0.98
00:08:39.680 They go to two, two really sucks because 0.79
00:08:41.860 they're working twice as much, making half the profit, 0.59
00:08:43.600 and then they go back to one. 0.97
00:08:45.460 There's this shitty spot at
00:08:47.420 $2 million a year for agencies
00:08:49.040 that most of them don't
00:08:51.700 make the leap, right?
00:08:53.560 Because it really is about
00:08:55.060 paying above market salary
00:08:57.420 for talent, to build out the
00:08:59.540 business,
00:08:59.920 you make less money
00:09:03.280 it is a lot of work
00:09:05.040 because it's a bunch of people
00:09:06.020 it's kind of like
00:09:07.620 you're finally starting to delegate
00:09:09.800 and if you have no optics
00:09:12.160 then where's the light at the end of the tunnel
00:09:14.580 right?
00:09:16.400 That's interesting
00:09:17.320 It's funny you say that too
00:09:18.380 because the agencies that I run into
00:09:20.180 that have passed the 2 million mark
00:09:21.840 are like growing so crazy fast
00:09:24.300 that they're only there
00:09:24.980 If they can crack it
00:09:25.960 So that's cool
00:09:28.580 So there is a passion for the customer.
00:09:31.940 What else can I help with specifically?
00:09:35.320 So when it comes to, and I know you have a framework on this, like building a webinar
00:09:40.180 that converts really, really well.
00:09:42.320 I tried to find that video last night.
00:09:43.860 I was looking for it, but I couldn't find it.
00:09:45.940 But that's something that's, you know, I've actually got two big webinars, one for my
00:09:50.060 personal coaching business that I have to do next week, and then also this one.
00:09:54.300 So that would be a huge help.
00:09:55.160 Yeah, I mean, I'll get you the link, but.
00:09:57.380 The problem with all these internet marketers
00:09:59.000 is they're diluting the power by making it seem schemey.
00:10:06.500 You know what I mean?
00:10:07.100 It's kind of like email marketing.
00:10:08.560 It's like, you know, I think it's Gary or somebody says,
00:10:11.400 like, marketers ruin everything.
00:10:13.060 And it's true. 0.56
00:10:13.580 So it's like you've got this powerful thing called webinars.
00:10:16.080 And the reason it's powerful is because you have the opportunity
00:10:17.980 to add a ton of value for a lot of people at once
00:10:21.060 in a very engaging format.
00:10:22.980 I love, personally, I love webinars for teaching and training and for, you know, presenting opportunities for people to buy products.
00:10:31.360 The mistake that people make is they don't add any value.
00:10:36.220 So, like, to me, there's a correlation between how much value and results I can give somebody.
00:10:41.680 And even if they can't get them on the webinar because they're on the webinar, right?
00:10:45.300 But the perception of them going, oh, my gosh, this isn't like a tell me what I don't know and then sell me the thing that actually gets me the result.
00:10:52.160 it's giving them the thing that gets them the result
00:10:54.880 and them going wow, if this is free
00:10:57.660 then they've got this tool
00:10:59.780 that's gonna allow me to do it
00:11:01.020 because really that to me for software
00:11:02.620 I'm just, I'm a software guy, right?
00:11:05.980 The way I think about it
00:11:07.560 and this is how some of the best companies have done it
00:11:09.580 is that you teach the thing your product does
00:11:13.300 automated or assist
00:11:16.160 so that whatever, where you make it
00:11:17.800 where a lot of people make the mistake
00:11:18.920 is they teach something that's not really the software
00:11:21.320 where it's the thing you need to do
00:11:22.460 before you get to the software.
00:11:23.880 So I was just talking with an entrepreneur
00:11:25.100 and they have some software for like marketing
00:11:27.620 and then they were gonna teach Facebook
00:11:29.920 because their tool kind of helps post Facebook traffic.
00:11:33.140 And I'm like, well, it's not a bad idea.
00:11:35.560 Like, of course you're gonna help the person.
00:11:38.400 But what you miss out on is really illuminating
00:11:40.880 the challenge and the pain of doing this thing
00:11:43.080 that they should do and then bridging that
00:11:47.680 from just teaching them to like,
00:11:50.180 hey, I can actually help you get this result faster.
00:11:52.360 I think, so whatever you teach
00:11:54.640 should be what your software does
00:11:57.200 for, like essentially in a more efficient way.
00:12:00.560 Does that make sense?
00:12:01.460 100%.
00:12:02.300 Cool, so do you already have the content figured out?
00:12:04.720 Yeah, I think what we're gonna do
00:12:06.160 is take a spreadsheet template that we've developed
00:12:08.440 and essentially teach people like these are the metrics,
00:12:10.900 this is how you track them in your agency,
00:12:12.420 here's some processes that you can have in place,
00:12:14.100 and here's, yeah.
00:12:15.980 But, so it'd be like a brief story.
00:12:17.240 It's not very sexy, man.
00:12:18.560 Yeah.
00:12:19.300 sexy at all um so i like focusing more on outcomes i guess would be a way to make it sexier yeah
00:12:24.380 yeah i think i think people like yeah spreadsheets quant numbers blah blah blah they want to know
00:12:30.720 that but you can give them a spreadsheet they can get to that i think i think it's more what are the
00:12:35.380 three numbers every agency needs to know like i if i had an agency i don't know what my three numbers
00:12:41.020 are right and like if you can give me a really quick way of like that would be amazing so like
00:12:46.120 maybe the three numbers how to how to best manage my my team because i think your software does
00:12:50.900 that like kind of gives people concepts of utilization and yeah forecasting yeah forecasting
00:12:55.980 so i think i think it's the three numbers and one is kind of like pipeline the other one is actual
00:13:01.940 and the third one is projections yeah right and and if you could teach that in a really great
00:13:07.680 story format because it is kind of dry it's a numbers thing um i think that would be really
00:13:13.700 interesting, and then also every benefit slash feature should have a testimonial from the
00:13:19.180 customer that got the benefit of that feature. You know what I mean? So I think if you use that same
00:13:24.480 pattern on the webinar, which I don't teach, but it's something I'm definitely, you know, it's not
00:13:29.140 in the core framework, but it's something I'm guiding folks in today is whenever you teach a
00:13:34.160 concept, do a micro case study on somebody that got the result doing that thing or avoided a pain
00:13:40.100 doing that thing so if you're like hey it's really important to understand pipeline so you
00:13:44.060 don't end up with a team that's bloated enough pipe like uh deals to fund the utilization and
00:13:50.200 then you have december january which are typically slow months totally crush you here's a client that
00:13:55.720 we showed this and even if it's not the software because a lot of people are like but dan you tell
00:13:59.120 us to sell the software before you build it yes you can still find people that have have used that
00:14:05.860 strategy to avoid a pain that you can tell their story.
00:14:09.660 Because it's not about the software at that point.
00:14:11.720 You're just telling the story about this thing
00:14:13.540 that's really important.
00:14:14.620 So you can just post on Facebook and be like,
00:14:16.660 hey, has anybody run an agency and do pipeline analysis
00:14:20.020 to help them avoid low months?
00:14:22.380 And they go, yeah, I do that, cool.
00:14:24.000 Can I talk about your story on a webinar?
00:14:25.760 And they're like, yeah, I don't care.
00:14:26.940 Then you just interview them, you put it in the webinar,
00:14:28.580 and you say, hey, I was talking to John,
00:14:29.700 he's got this agency, here's how he uses this strategy
00:14:32.560 to avoid this pain, right?
00:14:34.460 So then it's like, oh, it's like something
00:14:36.460 that successful agencies are, you know,
00:14:38.800 when people look at marketing,
00:14:40.100 I think they ask themselves this question of
00:14:42.020 who are people like me that you've served, right?
00:14:45.560 So if you think about the audience
00:14:46.820 that your partner's gonna bring to that webinar,
00:14:50.580 being able to answer that,
00:14:52.140 I think is gonna be really important.
00:14:54.020 And then show case studies of people
00:14:56.980 that you've talked to that are like those people
00:14:59.460 on the webinar and say like, oh, it's served me, right?
00:15:04.460 It's an idea, just it makes sense in my head to, like, I'm always thinking about people
00:15:12.420 that don't have the assets.
00:15:13.760 It's like, you start a business, you have to bring certain level of marketing to the
00:15:19.300 business.
00:15:19.680 How do you, it's not being dishonest or faking it, it's essentially saying, well, I need
00:15:24.660 to get this, but I don't have it.
00:15:26.360 It's kind of like sometimes people, they start service businesses and they give away
00:15:29.560 like 10 services for free, and then on the back end,
00:15:33.240 if they do a good job, they ask for a customer testimonial.
00:15:35.620 There's no, there's no, it's not,
00:15:39.840 like they still deliver the service,
00:15:41.840 they just may not have got paid for it,
00:15:43.220 but they still have the people saying nice things
00:15:45.500 about them based on the service they got, right?
00:15:48.920 So I like that, it's a way to prime the pump.
00:15:51.700 And my co-founder, his story is like,
00:15:55.420 is one we can use repeatedly,
00:15:57.260 because that's exactly the story.
00:15:58.420 The best products to build.
00:15:59.720 Like building a product for yourself
00:16:01.500 and you tell your story.
00:16:04.620 He's living proof of like,
00:16:06.000 this is, we implemented this.
00:16:07.140 I would save that one for the offer.
00:16:10.240 So essentially you teach, teach, teach
00:16:12.120 and at the end of each one you say,
00:16:13.740 here's somebody that used this to get this result
00:16:15.480 or avoid this pain.
00:16:16.720 Teach, teach, teach.
00:16:17.720 Then you go to the turn, which is like,
00:16:19.860 hey, would you guys like me to teach you a way
00:16:21.880 or show you a software that allows you
00:16:23.360 to get all this for free, right?
00:16:24.700 Essentially with no effort.
00:16:25.880 They're like, oh yes, please.
00:16:27.060 Yes, yes, yes.
00:16:28.040 Great, cool.
00:16:28.980 Here's the problem.
00:16:30.500 Here's this new problem, right?
00:16:31.880 That, hey, you can do all this,
00:16:32.860 but now you've got to pay an account
00:16:34.680 and you've got to do all this stuff.
00:16:36.300 And there really should be an easier way,
00:16:37.640 and I think it looks like this.
00:16:38.760 You integrate this, da-da-da-da-da.
00:16:40.800 And then in there, you want to do a case study
00:16:43.340 of somebody that used the software, ideally,
00:16:46.140 or you worked with as a service person
00:16:48.860 to get them an outcome, right,
00:16:52.280 that your software allows them to get.
00:16:54.580 That's where I would save that for in that section.
00:16:57.800 Love it
00:17:03.000 Hands getting sore
00:17:04.780 Yeah, man, you're just you gotta it's funny how like when you don't write a lot and you start writing it like cramps
00:17:10.240 It's like you're like you haven't built that cramp muscle like
00:17:14.300 It's like being in school. Yeah, cool. Yeah
00:17:18.200 So this the last one is kind of around I remember when we were in San Francisco and John said something about
00:17:24.040 about, he said, I think, I remember his exact words, he said, the CEO's job is to fight
00:17:28.380 for the customer.
00:17:29.380 The voice of the customer.
00:17:30.580 That's right.
00:17:31.540 And so I've got a co-founder that's super passionate about this project, super passionate
00:17:37.040 about the problem and solving it, and also super passionate about the way that he believes
00:17:42.360 it should be solved.
00:17:43.660 And so, you know, one of the ongoing things is managing that, like, you know, how we see
00:17:50.600 a challenge and we come at it from two different angles and yeah just managing that that friction
00:17:56.280 yeah i mean the child here's the thing is um the the problem with teams that this comes up
00:18:03.360 it's usually because they've that one team member has experience of working on teamwork and this is
00:18:08.360 very normal where somebody's like the customer's saying this but there's no proof right and it's
00:18:13.380 it's tough because like you're making drastically major product decisions based on like a conversation
00:18:19.480 that may not be real, right?
00:18:21.300 Because people have the observer bias
00:18:23.460 or, you know what I mean? 1.00
00:18:25.800 I'm sure CEOs make up shit in their head 0.99
00:18:28.280 and they're like, yeah, well, everybody's saying this. 0.99
00:18:30.780 It's like, who's everybody?
00:18:32.440 And please point me to one email
00:18:34.180 because I have a hard time believing this.
00:18:36.500 I have to ask this sometimes when people say this to me.
00:18:40.320 So I think that documenting the customer discovery process
00:18:43.020 is a really important one.
00:18:44.740 Now, the flip side of that is,
00:18:46.480 so if you have that, then there's like,
00:18:48.100 The customer is telling you what their problem is, but they don't get to decide how you solve it.
00:18:52.560 And that's where you guys might actually be on the same page.
00:18:55.280 It's like, we agree that this is a problem.
00:18:57.320 It's just the way I want to solve it or you want to solve it.
00:18:59.380 They're different.
00:19:00.380 And that, to me, I always design it and bring it back to the customer.
00:19:05.000 So it's not my opinion.
00:19:06.200 I have an opinion on strategy and sequence and say, well, we're going to do this first.
00:19:10.140 But as soon as I wireframe that, I bring it back to the customer and say, would this have solved your problem?
00:19:15.340 And if they go, no, you totally misunderstood what I was saying, it's like, great, I didn't write any code, I just wireframed it.
00:19:21.160 That feedback cycle is so much shorter and quicker than actually doing fully deployed code.
00:19:26.880 So like the whole idea of building a clickable prototype, which is part of my framework, the customer creation model, it's not just for pre-selling, right?
00:19:34.960 It's actually for product development.
00:19:36.240 I think a lot of people miss that, that building your user stories in clickable prototypes as
00:19:43.500 core functionality that can be deployed as units, right, of like, here's a new feature
00:19:47.500 for reporting, here's a new feature for adding a new member, that that's designed in a clickable
00:19:51.900 prototype, and ideally co-created with a customer.
00:19:54.940 That's product development.
00:19:55.920 That's not just, let's build the first MVP as a clickable prototype and pre-sell it.
00:20:00.580 It's let's build the muscle of a business
00:20:03.700 to actually prototype, get customer feedback
00:20:06.640 and that's just our DNA of how we do things.
00:20:09.500 Cause man, I can't tell you how many times
00:20:12.120 people actually do the right things in the beginning
00:20:14.220 and then stop doing the thing that made them successful
00:20:16.640 only to realize two years later 1.00
00:20:18.040 they built this bloated piece of shit software 1.00
00:20:20.180 and now they're trying to figure out where they went wrong. 1.00
00:20:22.540 It's like well you kept building stuff
00:20:24.340 without talking to the customer, yet you did it at first.
00:20:27.420 Like they actually did customer discovery.
00:20:29.820 they built the road map, they did all these things
00:20:31.940 in the beginning, and then they stopped doing it
00:20:33.940 because they got kind of cocky of their ability
00:20:36.920 to predict what the customer wanted.
00:20:39.040 But truthfully, they didn't have that,
00:20:40.620 they just had discipline in the beginning
00:20:41.940 that they got rid of, right?
00:20:44.200 I see that happen all the time,
00:20:46.800 where they raise funding, whatever it is,
00:20:49.560 and then all of a sudden it's like,
00:20:50.640 all that stuff you used to do, you stopped doing it.
00:20:53.320 Does that make sense?
00:20:54.160 Yeah, so there's gonna be challenges
00:20:56.340 around what you're hearing from the customer
00:20:57.960 and what your co-founder thinks they're saying
00:21:00.200 and you're kind of playing a game of telephone,
00:21:02.380 but nothing would stop you from suggesting,
00:21:06.240 hey, let's wireframe this
00:21:07.560 and I'll bring it back to the customer
00:21:09.060 and you can video it.
00:21:09.900 I actually record those sessions and then save those.
00:21:12.760 You can do a Skype screen share,
00:21:14.280 you can do a Zoom screen share and default records
00:21:17.340 and you could actually have a folder
00:21:18.660 with all the customer interviews and just rename them
00:21:21.240 because Zoom definitely doesn't put anything
00:21:23.280 descriptive as a name.
00:21:24.300 Skype does a little bit better with the recording software
00:21:26.920 and then make that available to your co-founder
00:21:30.200 to review if he feels like he wants to really understand
00:21:33.440 what was the feedback, right?
00:21:35.020 And that's just fair, like words matter.
00:21:37.320 Your interpretation of what they said
00:21:38.960 when you showed it to them
00:21:40.020 versus the way he might look at it and say,
00:21:42.060 oh, well, they actually said this,
00:21:43.240 but they really meant this.
00:21:45.140 Let's retweak the prototype and go present this new thing.
00:21:48.500 That would get you there faster.
00:21:50.280 Yeah.
00:21:50.860 Does that help?
00:21:51.500 Yeah, for sure.
00:21:52.360 Cool.
00:21:53.200 So here's what I'm hearing.
00:21:55.740 You've got a big partner webinar.
00:21:56.920 you're going in cold, which you're going to have to overcome.
00:21:59.320 Here's the biggest thing anytime you do any negotiation
00:22:02.220 is you need to be 100% clear what you want it to look like.
00:22:06.720 So one of the things that I do and you've noticed I sit down
00:22:09.720 is what's going to make this awesome for you, okay?
00:22:13.220 So you need to be clear of what that relationship should be
00:22:17.620 before you get on the call with him
00:22:20.020 so that you know what you want it to look like
00:22:22.020 so you can come with the confidence
00:22:23.820 and he might be wishy-washy about it
00:22:26.620 and that's okay because you're gonna come with like,
00:22:28.560 here's what I'm willing to do.
00:22:30.180 I'm cool doing 60, I'm cool doing 50.
00:22:32.900 You know, cause like, you want to come across
00:22:34.800 with the confidence, it's just like,
00:22:35.780 this is what's gonna go on.
00:22:37.180 And then when he asks you, well,
00:22:38.740 how many of these have you done in the past?
00:22:40.120 He'll, well, this'll be my first,
00:22:41.220 but here's why it'll be awesome.
00:22:43.500 Right, have that answer ready.
00:22:45.900 Right, I'm a big fan of role playing,
00:22:47.680 especially with your co-founder or friend,
00:22:49.400 like, have the list of questions you know
00:22:51.360 they're gonna ask, role play with somebody else,
00:22:53.940 have them ask you and just iterate it
00:22:56.860 almost to where it comes like second nature
00:22:58.440 and it's a muscle.
00:23:00.020 These, I mean, what's funny is like,
00:23:01.740 how many people could this person give you access to?
00:23:06.040 At least 50,000, 50,000 emails?
00:23:09.340 Like agency specific, I think he's got
00:23:11.940 like a little over 2,000 that have like purchased from him.
00:23:14.960 Yeah, so 2,000 paying customers, agency customers.
00:23:18.760 So they've already thrown down,
00:23:20.180 they probably would throw down,
00:23:21.100 like super qualified, targeted, et cetera.
00:23:24.520 Like these are the kind of opportunities
00:23:26.760 that entrepreneurs get that can change
00:23:28.520 the trajectory of their business.
00:23:30.420 And I find it irresponsible and crazy
00:23:33.520 that people don't role play those conversations prior.
00:23:36.100 I'm not saying that's you, I'm just saying
00:23:37.940 most entrepreneurs that I get the call
00:23:39.620 when I'm like, okay, what's going on?
00:23:41.700 They're like, well I get this really important meeting
00:23:43.140 and I'm like, okay, well who are you gonna role play with?
00:23:44.900 They're like, is that something I should do?
00:23:47.600 I'm like, why, yeah, right?
00:23:53.420 I mean, Marcel, you know that there's a difference
00:23:55.100 if we're sitting here and I go, like, let's banter.
00:23:58.060 And at the end of the banter, 20 minutes,
00:23:59.800 your answers are going to be rock solid
00:24:02.420 versus not doing that, right?
00:24:03.940 Yeah, for sure.
00:24:04.580 That's the power.
00:24:07.340 And then, so that's the big thing.
00:24:09.380 Make sure that, again, words matter, promotion.
00:24:12.040 And then, really, it's about the offer, man.
00:24:15.160 Just create something incredible.
00:24:16.820 Create something so great, you're like, I want this.
00:24:19.520 I feel like that's always been my gift is
00:24:22.020 I always present things that are just,
00:24:24.620 I think of the customer and I say, okay,
00:24:26.760 and I talk about add-ons in the training I'll send you,
00:24:29.360 but what are the, another way I think about it is supplements.
00:24:33.400 If I go to the gym, I need to buy supplements.
00:24:35.360 If I buy the software, there's probably other things
00:24:37.200 that are going to hold me up.
00:24:38.260 How can you help them overcome those things
00:24:40.140 that are going to hold them up?
00:24:40.960 What are the supplements that you can put together for them
00:24:43.300 that makes the whole package just incredible
00:24:46.320 value right and usually it's 10 to 1 ideally right if you sell it for a thousand you want
00:24:53.580 to show or demonstrate or them feel like man this is really worth 10 grand oh that's easy to do yeah
00:24:58.700 so it's like what are the other gaps in the thing that you offer that they're gonna they're gonna
00:25:04.740 be roadblocked on that you can bring this sometimes is software this is other training this is being
00:25:09.680 handheld. This is a review of their implementation. This is other software that you guys might offer,
00:25:17.540 other software that they're going to need either before or after using your product that you can
00:25:22.440 get a discount for them because you're going to negotiate a bulk or a partnership agreement with
00:25:26.900 these other products. That's the power, is putting the time and energy to build out those value ads,
00:25:33.200 those add-ons so that the offer just seems like
00:25:36.760 I feel so lucky I'm actually on this webinar.
00:25:40.140 That's the way I think about it.
00:25:41.720 I want to make it so good.
00:25:43.040 I want everybody that's stuck around till the end
00:25:45.060 and see this to feel really excited
00:25:48.220 that they invested that time and energy.
00:25:50.040 All right, man, go crush it.
00:25:51.820 So I came to get some more clarity
00:25:53.680 on how to prepare for a meeting
00:25:56.200 that could probably change my entire life
00:25:58.280 and the trajectory of my entire business.
00:26:00.940 A lot of confidence was what I was looking for
00:26:03.120 coming in here and just, you know, very clear action steps on how to move forward to make
00:26:07.460 sure that I'm going into this as prepared as I can. And I got exactly what I was looking
00:26:11.840 for and just super validating to sit down in front of somebody that's done this several
00:26:16.160 times and to know that, you know, you're doing the right things, going in the right direction
00:26:20.680 and there are some things that you can do specifically to make sure you show up the
00:26:23.500 way you need to. So that was incredible. Always valuable spending time with Dan Martel.