Episode #9 How To Coach & Advise Startups w⧸ Peter Lalonde @ Positive Venture Group
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Summary
In this episode of the Startup Spotlight podcast, Ronster chats with Al Doan, Founder and CEO of Unbashedly, a startup accelerator that helps start-ups get their products and services on the market. In this episode, Al shares his story of how he got started in the startup space, how he went from working at a Fortune 500 company to launching his own startup, and how he raised $65 million in venture capital.
Transcript
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And what's the, if I'm allowed to ask, like average check size?
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First, or right after friends and family, they kind of have a problem-solution fit.
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And we look at it and say, you know, is this something that we can actually help with?
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And then there's the investment, like, how does, what is all the services that you support companies in?
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So, on the go-to-market side, all I care about is revenue, right?
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We care about, is your product going to solve a problem that people want to pay for?
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So Jason Burke was the CFO for Cognos through the acquisition with IBM.
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Everybody wanted to work with him, but no one can afford him.
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So he tried to recreate the Cognos experience and the vibe and the culture,
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So he said, I'm going to have to just build it myself.
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and started working with other like-minded CFOs
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and started hiring themselves out at a fractional basis.
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Well, I was an intrapreneur locked within, you know,
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the big enterprise companies like OpenText and IBM.
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and uh started a few different companies the where i met you in san francisco was i was out
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pitching uh was that the c100 that was c100 yeah yeah yeah that was a lot of fun the company was
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called open era yeah yeah and uh and i think we reconnected at startup festival we did yeah
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and then shortly after was the acquisition it was not too far after that yeah cool so it was a
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it was a you know your typical startup ride it was up it was down it was and did you raise money
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for that company uh yeah just a million bucks okay yeah it's funny how you say just a million
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millions real money i know you know what i mean like in today's world like oh what did you raise
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65 million well you hear about you know some of the companies raising today how did you raise a
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million is a million it's a million dollars yeah yeah um yeah it was a million canadian which is
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actually harder to do way harder so it was uh you know but that whole like experience was
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phenomenal it's fantastic and uh i've got the bug like i call myself a recovering entrepreneur
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yeah because i i can't there's a vibe yeah there's a feeling it's it's actually uh definitely
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there's some people that get addicted to it and it's uh it's super neat um and then since then
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is this what you did after uh so i went in as the kind of you know coo on demand for a few
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different companies. One of them was called the Printo out in Fredericton and that was a great
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technology that I just fell in love with because they were actually monitoring open air for a
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while and they were doing very similar things to what open air was. What was it called?
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A Printo and I ended up you know trying to get them to be acquired by box and open text and
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But this has happened a few times in these engagements
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where I'm an enterprise guy, I am unabashedly so,
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and the company decides to go in a consumer direction,
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So the other one that I, that I helped build was Massive, Massive I.O.
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And we launched that in Amsterdam last year and we validated the product.
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We went from product ideation to, you know, a brand, a market, a position where we were
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able to actually take five credit cards on the show floor and build a $1.259 pipeline.
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it was pretty exciting and validated the product so that's still a going concern that's so um i
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think originally you emailed uh just you know the last video i put out everything power what can i do
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to i'm like i want to be as helpful as possible sure what do you want to you know the things that
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are that i struggle with are being an entrepreneur and like being so passionate and diving in
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and trying to help them sometimes to my detriment.
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That's a great topic because as somebody that coaches
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these types of entrepreneurs, it's tough for me
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because I think there's different types of coaches.
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and that's called the Socratic coaching method.
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And I've hired a couple of those coaches in the past
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And then I would say on the other spectrums, there are those that are very prescriptive, which I definitely lean more towards that.
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I've learned to kind of find some middle ground.
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And the challenge that I've experienced is many times you believe in them more than they believe in themselves.
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so what happens at that level is the way I think about it is we always have to go back to mindset
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and what I mean by that is everybody's getting a hundred percent of the mindset that they have
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today so like I believe that everybody's getting a hundred percent of who they are today okay and
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but it's the mindset ceiling and what happens is that you have a different view and it could be
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yes and it could be just around that specific department or strategy and it's frustrating
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because you're like why don't you see it my way but it's because they have a belief system that
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won't allow them to very interesting you're right yeah so it's it's kind of like now that i've
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learned that about my clients then what i do is i try to coach them to change the beliefs
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not the not sell them on the tactics because that's the part that's missing yeah yeah no
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absolutely but how do you do that right getting somebody to change their belief system is a long
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road that's not a it's it's not a half hour it can it can't be yeah right here's here here's an
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example um one questions are powerful yep so i was coaching one of my clients the other day
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very successful you know six millionaire sas business and i knew i knew the move they needed
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to make and uh i could ask them a ton of questions and blah blah blah but the question i asked them
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that got them there faster was if somebody bought you tomorrow what's the first thing they would do
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and he oh yeah and he goes they would do this awesome what's the second thing we do they would
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do this and i go why would they do those two things because of x y and z awesome what stopped
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you to this point to do one and two yeah oh yeah fantastic they're like oh no they're like oh you're
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so right and i've known this for three years yeah now they were successful but at the end of the day
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they want to results and sure they were they were essentially handicapping
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themselves yeah and I see that every day yeah every single day so you got to ask
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yourself and I got this as a variation from the guy that wrote high performance
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output the founder of Dell you remember Andy Grove Andy Grove wrote an incredible
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book in the 1980s of all things it was it quite possibly could be one of the
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first few management books really yeah high performance output and uh in it he the question
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they would ask themselves as a leadership team the executive level was if we hired somebody
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to come in here to run my if somebody came in if somebody if we were to hire if i were to get fired
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and somebody would come in to run my job what's the first thing they would do so so it's kind of
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the same questions but you can yeah you can use it at the executive level so you have a cfo that's
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not on board great we you got fired somebody else came in what's the first thing that they probably
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do well they probably do this yeah there you go so so there's so so i think that mindset uh left
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to its own device or to its own natural progression can be really long and arduous and tough but if you
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can learn how to craft the questions that get somebody there faster right yeah yeah how do you
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deal with like and i think i know how i deal with this but how do you deal with entrepreneurs that
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just they do everything wrong they won't listen they you know you pour in as much effort as you
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can at the end of the day i gotta walk away like i'm if you're not going to help yourself yeah
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right if you're not going to allow me to help you yeah and you're going to put up all these road
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blocks then the unfortunate part about any transformation that's the that's what i
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describe the work i get to do with my clients is it needs to be invited
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so then the question really is is how do you get somebody to invite you in for that transformational
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process and the truth is is you've got to let them and and you know just through my personal
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story you know kind of stuff i went through as a kid people would say often like you got to hit
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rock bottom you know after i released that video everything in my power i had dozens of parents
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reach out to me i don't doubt it and and the challenge for me is you know i'd be talking to
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a mother and then she said my husband doesn't even believe my son's an addict and i'm like
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okay after what she had just told me you know he's been in crisis centers for three years he
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went to the psych ward two weeks prior he crashed his car you know so like at certain point you you
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know and it's it's it's relevant to everything in life is people need to feel enough pain so
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bringing this back to the startup world what i do is i say totally cool let's just agree on
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certain numbers that we think that we should be moving forward and usually by setting the
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foundation and the targets they'll feel that pain on a weekly basis to the point where they don't
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get results and then they go how do i do this yeah well there's a there's a there's a line right
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they either say how do i do this or they get their backup and they don't want because i haven't
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actually been invited in right well and that's why that's why because they think they know it
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Yeah, but if they didn't invite, if they didn't really, like, they could say, okay, help me, but not really want that.
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Then the first thing is just, let's just figure out what success looks like.
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These three things, let's measure them week over week.
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And, like, I'll just call you up and we'll figure out where we're at.
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Because then that way, it's, you know, it's back to, it's not you, it's them.
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So, like, it's negotiating with them, like, what needs to be true for success to be real in your world.
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then what do you think we should be doing over the next you know three months and let's just
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break down on weekly targets and we both agree that if things don't trend in that way then
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there's a conversation to have and they they usually come to a point where they go this is
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I'm you're right and if they don't then that's just that's okay too no I mean everybody for us
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yeah and I'm the way I look at is everybody's on their own journey and I can you know there's
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there's a I have a few rules that I learned from my buddy Jason about who an
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ideal customer is one is one of them is they know they have a problem and they
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believe that you have the solution if they don't know coachable as well
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there's a ton of stuff right but I mean if you think about just that high level
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they they know they have a problem so okay I have a problem and they've
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already bought into your solution for that problem yeah the hardest like if
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if you can get really clear of who you serve and who you don't and how you serve them and how you
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don't, then it just makes it less emotional if somebody's not getting a result because
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ideally you would have not even like started working with them, right? And this is, and that's
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why I think like SaaS is success as a service, right? It's not actually software because a client
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invests in your product because they want a result. The mountaintop is that result and they've chosen
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your solution to be the vehicle to make that journey. And if they're not bought in that that's
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the vehicle to make the journey than trying to sell them to get in it just for them to fight the
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whole time they're going up that mountain they'll never get the result they'll they'll cancel they'll
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turn and honestly it affects your numbers so a lot of founders think they get these like super
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creative growth hacks as they can convince or you know contrive or you know what i mean like
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some like sneaky way to get people into the solution only to find out that those are the
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customers that are quick to cancel quick to clog up your support system like i would rather have
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have less customers that are higher quality, higher value, better on my team, not abusive.
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Well, I think, you know, I think in what I do, what you do, often, like, I'm better
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at identifying my clients' challenges than I am my own.
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You gotta look at a mirror every now and again and say, am I gonna eat my own dog food here?
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Am I gonna qualify my accounts the way I really should?
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this because I get emotionally attached to entrepreneurs because I've been where
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they are and you've seen it in the community where there's a lot of
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entrepreneurs who go through tough times and those are the ones that need the
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most help so am I a sucker for wanting to help them it's in my nature but can't
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let it drag you down no right no and there's so much of this and it's it's
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It's really balancing that and having, okay, I gotta be a little more pragmatic here, but these guys are the ones that really need the help right now, and I know I can help them and they're willing, but maybe it's not the right time. Maybe it's not going to pay my bills. Maybe it's not going to meet my-
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I just think, like, if they're not ready, then it's not even the right time for them to make that investment, time and financially, right?
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Like, at the end of the day, you know, we can only serve so many people.
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You can't, like, you could be sales force and you're like, seven billion people tomorrow.
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So then you've got to say, okay, what's, and what I love about this, you know, this concept of a check size.
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Because I think that if you think of business as a whole, it's about moving low value to high value, right?
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Like, I mean, pretty much every B2B SaaS business started off with a $19 a month plan.
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And after seven or eight, nine years of banging their head, they end up way higher, right?
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Because they realize to themselves that I'd rather have less customers that love me more, that I love to serve more,
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to have to hire 10 times more employees, you know?
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the cool part is we get to decide who we work with.
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And what's neat is you build a reputation around that.
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So this is another thing that I feel people don't understand.
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So like, I just think this is true for software.
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It's like, you're better off saying, this is the value I create, here's the investment level, and instead of it being like 15% get the results, it's 98% get the results, because at that level of investment, and this is something I find fascinating, when you think of the whole ideal customer, whatever the price point is, even if you call it 100 grand, it's what kind of company, it's not what kind of customer invests 100 grand into this service,
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is the person that doesn't believe in themselves
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it's a different approach where people are thinking
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I need to find more of these people who will not write 100k
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make sure that you stay away and you repel
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like they could get the roi because those ones have a deeper challenge which is the mindset i
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don't believe in my abilities execute or implement and pass you know investments didn't work out or
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whatever it is right well this is like my first venture into consulting and it's a different beast
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i am used to hey i've got a sas application it's repeatable i'm gonna go i know who my target
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customers are i know how to get them yeah and make it profitable here it i'm trying to do the same
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thing because i'm trying to productize what we do i'm trying to scale it i'm trying to grow it
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but disqualification is a key part of that is i don't want to work with a lot of people right
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a lot like i have a no asshole rule yeah i don't want to work with jerks i don't work with people
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that you know aren't right for the business and might be out bashing our name so that disqualification
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process is a very difficult one because you don't always know right away in a
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consulting engagement it might take you three months a month to figure out this
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isn't gonna go anywhere and when you've got other people selling services your
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services etc all of a sudden you might be in an engagement and realize this is
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going to be a disaster I need to now extract myself from this side that's a
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challenge because it's not a problem right it's a service it's me it's my
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brand I have to deliver on that brand how do we do that if other people are
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out there selling me into an engagement and I realized pretty quickly yeah
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that's a problem how do you deal with that today I haven't been able to do I
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I have assigned other people who might be better suited.
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Like, no, no, this is a very strong CEO who's very strong-willed and opinionated, who's very combative.
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Well, I'm not going to be able to help you if you just want to argue all the time.
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But I know somebody who might be able to match for you.
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If you want to go beat it out and have arguments all the time, here's the guy for you.
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but I'm gonna I'm gonna take a step back I'll work in the background if I can
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but I'm gonna take a step out because at the end of the day it's not worth my
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mental health if I'm not providing the value that I could for that account when
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I could be providing value for another yeah it's just really what it is at the
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end of the day yeah but the people selling you into those accounts they
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they don't have that filter remember we're founded by a bunch of accountants
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not a cookie cutter. And these are things where now
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these guys can talk about it. I have to make it very
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but you know we're the shoemaker's children yeah it's always going to be a longer process than when
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we do it for our clients and what does this guy do the cfo dude does he do like reporting on top
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of net suite or what does he it depends on the client okay so we've got the strategic you know
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top level cfos who are out helping you know raise series a's uh seed that's driven by the cfo yeah
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yeah interesting it is but here's where you think about um what our practice does i'm going to go
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to market side there's a lot of intersections and prior to me joining practice we should see
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the pitch decks right there just a lot of numbers and words and you know we come in and say okay
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let's tell a story tell a story and what is this we're trying to get us here um and how do we
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validate what client are you most proud of that you've worked with uh i'd say quick silk is one
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of them quick silk silk yeah they're an unknown web content management platform
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what's their core what problem do they solve uh security and simplicity right so it's not like
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you know page cloud or uh wix or weebly it's just as easy page cloud out of san francisco now are
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they no they're still ottawa based okay yeah as far as their bootstrapped right uh no they've got
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investment yeah there is money yeah um but these guys you know they're they've got a great product
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when i first saw it i i hated it yeah i didn't like it at all because i was looking at it through
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the lens of well wix and weebly and page cloud all these guys are way slipper but then my background
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with open text and web content management at the enterprise level realizing okay wait a second and
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he walked me through the ceo gary walked me through all of the features and the security
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requirements and the world bank is one of his accounts and uh i said gary like you're not
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competing with these guys yeah you've got to be competing over here yeah and you can like
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documentum space it's it's like uh from wordpress joomla and all those open source solutions which
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is like a huge percentage of the internet yeah to okay well there's the documentums the open
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techs of the world, and Oracle and Adobe, all require huge technical investment, implementation
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time, integration. We used to sell a dollar of services for every dollar of licenses.
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And he's got something that can bridge that gap. It's not going to compete head to head
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at the top level yet, but he's got something that can get there. And he can solve the security
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problem for any company, or government, or organization that has a higher than normal
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It's been built for security from the ground up.
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It's unlike open source, there are very few penetration points.
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And with one of their partnerships, they're hosted on a platform that guarantees data
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sovereignty yeah and my other client massive can guarantee data sovereignty in transit okay so all
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of a sudden you've got a very sophisticated solution that will i was just in an in transit
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through vpn or through physical pipe it's through private networks really yeah and uh it's really
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uh a powerful solution if you take these three things together yeah and you bring that over to
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Europe where the EU regulations are coming in a play. Data sovereignty is key. If you're a European company...
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No, and if you're Europe, you can't even keep your data in the UK anymore.
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You've got to bring it back to European soil because of Brexit.
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So there's huge opportunity for companies like this. And now that he's repositioned, the market is opening at the price point that he's selling for is significantly higher.
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So talk to me about his, so what's the go, does he have salespeople?
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No, so here, actually, this is a really interesting one because he's struggling with funding.
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And his metrics, he went from becoming primarily a service organization that tried to productize to a consumer like a product, to me going in and saying, stop, you're not going to survive.
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Let's productize, let's go and become that enterprise solution.
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And he's been dealt some crappy hands on the funding side.
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So he's got about $750,000 waiting for him, but he needs...
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He needs about $150,000 left, and we've already put our check in.
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So it's just a matter of getting him over that hump.
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I've brought great investors to the table, but it's not something I enjoy doing.
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But that's where we need more of the high-level finance support for this.
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And that's going from practically zero about nine months ago.
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But the investment community, I was at a recent angel event,
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Like, why are these companies pitching at an angel event?
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But here in Ottawa, I don't know what it's like.
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But the bar is, they're looking for 50,000 MRR for an angel group?
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Yeah, I don't think they understand what angel really means.
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I mean, these are Series A, and they're professional investors, not high net worth guys.
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Are they trying to do a million and a half at the angel group?
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No, they're just trying to get, right now, they need 150.
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The ones that were doing it at the angel group?
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and they presented me as this particular angel group success
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for a bunch of different groups locally, right?
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Were they an investor in a fund that you raised money from?
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One of their members had invested in me separately.
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Yeah, we've definitely kind of kiboshed a lot of the angel groups.
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I mean, there's just, you know, obviously there's a different network.
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Oh, I just love it because honestly, I mean, this is my approach,
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is I truly believe that the investors don't have a job unless I raise money.
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And they would be lucky to have me in their portfolio.
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And that is the mind shift that has to happen with some of these.
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So, yeah, these are the things that keep me up at night, and I'm not the owner of the company.
00:29:27.080
be able to explain that to an angel or somebody else who's never done that before yeah so when
00:29:34.440
i'm working with them this is in the back of my mind it's almost like i'm it's almost like ptsd
00:29:39.480
and i'm like recreating this scenario in my head i'm like i'm going to save you from this
00:29:43.560
and we're going to do something differently but at the end of the day i understand what
00:29:47.640
their pain is and we know how we can address it and we're going to address dress it in a
00:29:52.440
no bullshit way yeah and that goes to one of my commitments to entrepreneurs everywhere which is
00:29:57.820
i'm going to just be brutally honest with you know what i've done in the past and the mistakes that i
00:30:05.120
made um you know i'm not going to play the success theater with these guys i'm going to tell them you
00:30:11.580
know that what it was like selling my company and not having alignment and the depression
00:30:17.340
afterwards and you know seeing your baby get you know mutilated yeah just rebranded into something
00:30:25.840
awful yeah so you see like these are the things that an entrepreneur you know expects me to just
00:30:31.560
talk to them about i had an exhibit it was great it was awesome yeah you should do it too but it's
00:30:37.600
not like that right there's all these ups and downs yeah and what i've found is there's a shift
00:30:43.820
in the community from when i was starting open era in 2011 to today where entrepreneurs seem to be
00:30:52.060
way more in touch with the downside of everything so i think that's a good thing yeah right um and
00:31:00.620
we seem to be more supportive and honest with each other i don't know if you've seen the same thing
00:31:06.860
But, you know, since I, I think we talked at our last lunch, but since I got my tattoo, because my son went through some issues and he struggled with depression and suicide attempts.
00:31:21.860
Since I got the tattoo, it has opened up so many entrepreneurs coming up to me and talking to me about their deepest, darkest times.
00:31:30.580
People I've worked with, people I've worked with in the past.
00:31:33.820
it's coming out of a woodwork and it's just demystifying or taking away the stigma and being
00:31:40.640
able to have that conversation i think it's been very helpful and very powerful because you can
00:31:46.240
have some real conversations oh it's real yeah because there's you know i think back to you know
0.76
00:31:53.500
the bullshit i was spouting when i was you know on the side yeah man i was a big man on campus
0.76
00:32:00.060
for a while there you know and behind the scenes it's a different story but you have to be able to
0.99
00:32:05.980
have those conversations now um because there's there's real real consequences and we've we've
00:32:13.260
seen some of that we've seen entrepreneurs commit suicide right and it's not uh it shouldn't happen
00:32:20.700
there's no way to 100 prevent it but to be able to have those conversations and at least say you're
00:32:27.180
You're not alone, there are other people out here who have gone through this stuff.
00:32:34.620
That's all we can do and I definitely see more of that happening.
00:32:39.620
So to me that's a real positive that I'm seeing in the startup community.
00:32:43.660
I don't know if that's everywhere but I definitely see that here in Ottawa.