Dan Martell - Perfecting Onboarding & Activation with Aaron Krall @ SaaS Growth Hacks

00:00:00.000 My value comes from the knowledge that I have and what I'm able to like teach people.

00:00:04.960 And if I don't know something, then my value goes down.

00:00:08.000 Admission sequence five, three, two, one.

00:00:20.960 Aaron Kroll, what's up, my man?

00:00:22.660 Hey.

00:00:23.300 Dude, really appreciate you doing this.

00:00:25.480 Yeah.

00:00:25.880 Founder of SaaS Growth Hackers, conversion trial expert, add a ton of value in this space.

00:00:34.820 I've seen a lot of your talks at events.

00:00:37.700 We're conference buds.

00:00:38.900 That's where we get to hang out, spend a lot of time together, crack some jokes.

00:00:42.560 But I wanted to bring you on here and just learn more about your journey.

00:00:45.560 I actually don't know a lot about what you did before SaaS Growth Hacks.

00:00:51.480 No, let's not call her out.

00:00:53.220 But anyways, as I was going to say,

00:00:54.720 I met part of your team last year.

00:00:56.340 And you're like, she doesn't work for me.

00:00:57.720 And I'm like, well, OK.

00:00:59.880 So I'll digress.

00:01:01.320 What did you do prior to creating the largest Facebook

00:01:05.540 group on the internet for SaaS founders?

00:01:07.680 Yeah.

00:01:08.100 How far do you want me to go back?

00:01:10.380 I don't know.

00:01:11.360 It was a stormy night, 1984.

00:01:14.640 And no.

00:01:16.740 So you're from Utah?

00:01:18.540 Born in California.

00:01:19.500 OK.

00:01:20.220 Yeah.

00:01:20.520 Live in Utah.

00:01:21.580 Live in Utah right now.

00:01:24.100 So I graduated from BYU in advertising.

00:01:27.500 BYU?

00:01:28.840 BYU, Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah.

00:01:33.160 OK.

00:01:35.160 And then I went to go work for L'Oreal, the hair care company.

00:01:39.040 Maybe you've heard of it.

00:01:39.580 That's obvious.

00:01:40.580 Yeah.

00:01:41.080 OK.

00:01:41.580 And I worked in it.

00:01:42.880 Are they part of a big conglomerate?

00:01:45.260 Who?

00:01:45.700 L'Oreal.

00:01:46.660 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:01:47.500 Huge, huge.

00:01:48.260 They own so many different brands.

00:01:49.460 But are they the major or big?

00:01:50.980 They're the umbrella company.

00:01:52.240 They're not like Procter & Gamble.

00:01:54.520 Are they owned by Procter & Gamble?

00:01:55.820 No.

00:01:56.320 OK.

00:01:56.820 L'Oreal is like the Procter & Gamble of house,

00:01:59.260 housing, products, whatever.

00:02:00.340 Cool.

00:02:00.920 And they're based, they just have an office in Utah?

00:02:03.100 No, New York.

00:02:04.120 I went to New York.

00:02:04.660 Oh, you went to New York.

00:02:05.260 Went to New York City.

00:02:06.100 New York City.

00:02:06.460 Yep.

00:02:06.760 Cool.

00:02:07.160 Big city.

00:02:07.700 How old were you?

00:02:09.220 This was right after graduation, so I was about 23.

00:02:12.200 That's cool, dude.

00:02:13.160 Yeah.

00:02:13.660 Yeah, yeah.

00:02:14.620 I entered a competition at BYU.

00:02:16.920 It's called the Brandstorm Competition.

00:02:18.600 So L'Oreal goes to BYU every year,

00:02:21.180 and they do a competition.

00:02:22.800 And whoever wins that competition,

00:02:26.040 they all get internships at L'Oreal.

00:02:27.660 And did you win the competition?

00:02:29.220 We got to the US finals.

00:02:33.280 Didn't get into the international finals,

00:02:35.460 but I still got an internship there.

00:02:37.240 Oh, cool.

00:02:37.740 So internship to full-time job?

00:02:39.680 So this is where it gets interesting.

00:02:40.820 So I don't know if you know anything about me,

00:02:45.120 you know hair care is probably not my passion.

00:02:47.340 It looks like a top of your list of importance.

00:02:50.220 I don't know.

00:02:52.380 My follicles are just beautiful.

00:02:55.780 Yeah.

00:02:56.940 So I had a really terrible experience.

00:03:00.680 What were you doing there, marketing?

00:03:02.160 Yeah.

00:03:02.740 OK.

00:03:03.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:03:04.400 They gave me a project.

00:03:05.240 Was there a lot of women?

00:03:07.800 Yeah.

00:03:08.300 A young 23-year-old?

00:03:09.740 Were you like the minority there?

00:03:11.280 Is that why?

00:03:11.700 How long did you stay?

00:03:12.520 No, I would say I was the minority.

00:03:14.960 OK.

00:03:15.420 How long did you stay?

00:03:17.320 I was there for about six months.

00:03:18.860 OK, OK, I thought you were there for a few years.

00:03:20.560 No, no, no, no, it was an internship.

00:03:22.180 OK, six months, and you're like, OK.

00:03:23.340 Six months, I bombed the presentation at the end

00:03:27.320 in front of all the L'Oreal execs.

00:03:30.300 And I remember in the kind of interview or whatever,

00:03:36.280 at the end, the presentation, the head of my department,

00:03:39.040 who I'd only talked to a few times, said,

00:03:41.700 how did you come up with this terrible idea?

00:03:43.940 And I remember thinking, wow, I really don't like you,

00:03:46.740 and I quit.

00:03:47.240 Yeah, I really bombed this.

00:03:48.220 But you just said that internally.

00:03:49.320 Yeah.

00:03:50.220 And then I was just, I remember I was just like,

00:03:53.360 I didn't know what to say.

00:03:54.120 I was just stunned.

00:03:54.900 It was probably one of the most stressful, terrible moments

00:03:58.620 of my life.

00:03:59.220 Of your life.

00:04:00.000 Yeah.

00:04:00.420 Even like today.

00:04:02.560 Yeah, like most embarrassing, most like.

00:04:04.980 Did he say that in front of like a panel?

00:04:06.400 Yeah, it was everybody was, everybody.

00:04:08.340 Call him out.

00:04:08.900 Who was it?

00:04:10.080 I want his name.

00:04:10.580 I can't remember his name.

00:04:11.500 Oh, come on.

00:04:12.000 I can't remember his name.

00:04:12.860 Last name was Patel.

00:04:14.340 Dude, that was a nice Mr. Patel.

00:04:16.460 L'Oreal.

00:04:17.460 Well, anyways, it made it easier for me to say no.

00:04:20.700 And they brought me to the office, and they said, well,

00:04:23.020 I don't think we're going to continue our internship with you.

00:04:25.640 And I was like, OK, good, thanks.

00:04:28.280 And then I left.

00:04:29.540 So in the movies, they did the montage at this point.

00:04:33.740 Like, what did you do afterwards?

00:04:35.780 Like, did you do multiple things?

00:04:37.920 OK, so I was in New York, and I went on food stamps.

00:04:42.740 I didn't have a job.

00:04:43.680 Shit, you, like, legit applied for food stamps.

00:04:45.500 Yep.

00:04:45.960 I had to go to the food stamp office every week,

00:04:47.960 and I had to say, yes, I'm looking for a job.

00:04:50.180 Did you just not want to move back to Utah?

00:04:51.840 I did not want to.

00:04:52.740 That wasn't an option.

00:04:53.200 I felt like moving back to California

00:04:54.500 was me totally failing.

00:04:56.280 If I moved back to my parents' house, that was me.

00:04:58.080 I felt 100% complete failure.

00:04:59.040 I did the same thing, moved out west, 9-11 happened.

00:05:02.380 And I'm out west, everything dried up.

00:05:05.100 And I thought, if I go back, I messed up.

00:05:08.680 I proved my dad right, because he's like,

00:05:10.240 why are you doing this?

00:05:11.020 You have a great place.

00:05:12.080 You should stay.

00:05:12.840 And I'm like, no, I've got to go explore.

00:05:14.740 Yeah.

00:05:14.900 I would rather live on the street in New York in a cardboard box than go back home to my

00:05:21.120 parents' basement, you know? Total ego thing. Total ego thing. I know a lot of people do it.

00:05:25.700 They didn't beat you, right? I'm assuming. Okay. They may have when I returned. I don't know.

00:05:30.800 I didn't go back. So yeah, I was on food stamps for a while. I finally got a job

00:05:34.960 for a real estate company doing marketing. And then a friend out from high school called me

00:05:39.980 out of the blue and said, hey, dude, you want to start a business with me? And I was like,

00:05:43.380 Yeah, sure, I don't have anything going on.

00:05:45.620 So we started a business, and then we

00:05:46.800 moved to Spokane, Washington.

00:05:48.240 OK.

00:05:49.080 I haven't talked to this guy in probably seven years.

00:05:52.360 He was in Spokane?

00:05:53.260 He was living, he was, I think he was living in California.

00:05:56.760 OK.

00:05:57.180 Yeah.

00:05:57.980 And we both moved to Spokane, Washington.

00:06:02.620 Excuse me.

00:06:03.800 And started a business, Click Marketing.

00:06:07.920 PPC?

00:06:09.180 It was PPC, it was website design, everything under the sun.

00:06:12.060 Whatever you want.

00:06:12.900 Open the jacket.

00:06:13.900 Yeah, I'll be your IT guy.

00:06:15.540 Yeah, I will set up your mail server.

00:06:17.460 Yep, yep, yep.

00:06:18.600 I am unabashedly employable.

00:06:20.760 Exactly.

00:06:21.240 Hire us.

00:06:22.020 Exactly.

00:06:22.880 Yeah.

00:06:23.100 I remember our first client was two ladies that sold something called the bio mat, which

00:06:29.600 was like this mat that you put on the ground.

00:06:31.360 It has like crystals in it, and it like rejuvenates your energy.

00:06:34.180 Oh, dude, I'd buy that.

00:06:35.160 Yeah, yeah.

00:06:35.900 It's like, here's cancer.

00:06:37.880 Chakra enhancers.

00:06:38.800 Yeah, yeah, chakra enhancers.

00:06:41.200 And I remember thinking, I do not believe in this product at all,

00:06:43.880 but I will build.

00:06:45.240 If they give me money, I will do anything for money.

00:06:47.360 Yeah.

00:06:48.160 And that was like a Keystone customer for you guys.

00:06:50.320 That was a Keystone customer for me.

00:06:51.480 Yeah, yeah.

00:06:51.840 So how long, I mean, like fast forward a little bit.

00:06:53.700 So you did that.

00:06:54.340 What was that called?

00:06:55.340 Click Marketing.

00:06:55.980 OK, Click Marketing.

00:06:56.940 How long did you do that for?

00:06:58.400 I did that for two or three years.

00:07:01.480 OK.

00:07:02.540 Then I left the partnership.

00:07:04.260 Yep.

00:07:05.720 And then I stayed in Spokane for a long time,

00:07:07.540 and I just ended up doing video.

00:07:08.400 Now, geography-wise, obviously I'm Canadian,

00:07:10.740 so it's hard for me.

00:07:11.460 So Spokane, is that in the West Coast?

00:07:12.960 West Coast.

00:07:13.640 Yeah, I think most of my, when we do an annual ski trip

00:07:16.520 and they all fly into Spokane and drive up to the coast.

00:07:18.540 So you're really close to an hour and a half

00:07:20.040 from the US-Canadian border.

00:07:21.160 Yeah, we're super close.

00:07:22.440 Yeah, I think my buddy Ben Greenfield,

00:07:24.160 have you heard of this guy?

00:07:24.960 Maybe.

00:07:25.500 Yeah, he was on Joe Rogan.

00:07:26.340 He's one of the top biohackers in the world.

00:07:28.020 I think he lives in Spokane.

00:07:29.580 Or if there's another Spokane.

00:07:30.600 Is there another Spokane?

00:07:31.620 There might be like a Spokane, India.

00:07:32.820 You know there's a Salt Lake City, Dubai.

00:07:34.200 India is like, India, India?

00:07:35.400 No, he's American.

00:07:36.600 So he's probably in Spokane then.

00:07:38.160 Yeah, probably.

00:07:38.940 Beautiful place.

00:07:40.680 Leave that, and then go do?

00:07:42.300 Video.

00:07:43.120 So then I started doing video production.

00:07:46.200 I got a, what are you, like a Canon?

00:07:49.300 C100s, C250s.

00:07:50.860 Oh, dude, like a T1.

00:07:52.260 Canon T1.

00:07:53.100 See, I don't know what that means.

00:07:54.240 I just know I spent a lot of money on one of these.

00:07:55.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:07:56.760 You got a lot of cameras here.

00:07:57.760 Well, Jared's like, we need this, Dan.

00:07:59.940 And I'm like, why is it $25,000?

00:08:02.340 What do I mean?

00:08:02.900 I got an iPhone.

00:08:03.720 Just get a clamp.

00:08:04.620 What are you talking about?

00:08:05.260 You can borrow my iPhone while we shoot.

00:08:07.420 I'm not on the phone.

00:08:08.360 He's like, no, would you shut up?

00:08:09.980 Yep, yeah, yeah.

00:08:11.440 I just started doing videos for chiropractors and doctors.

00:08:14.000 And I said, I'll do a commercial for you.

00:08:15.600 And I'll do it for $1,500.

00:08:17.300 OK.

00:08:17.720 You know, I just did it, edited it.

00:08:20.140 I was really good at it, really good at video.

00:08:22.340 You edited your own videos.

00:08:23.580 Yeah, I have tons of commercials on my Vimeo channel.

00:08:28.180 Cool.

00:08:28.580 and then and then I started going into and I just kept going back and forth between like

00:08:36.440 website design and then video management video whatever I couldn't pick like a niche so yeah

00:08:43.380 eventually I got just so burned out I was like I can't do this anymore I cannot I cannot solve

00:08:47.820 everyone's problems because I remember driving down how long did you do this for I did this for

00:08:52.480 another three years Aaron crawl enterprises no I click marketing oh okay you did click but then

00:08:57.440 went and did the video stuff. I stayed as click marketing. Okay, you just went and did it on your

00:09:01.760 own. You left the partnership, did it on your own. The partnership, I'm sorry, the partnership was

00:09:05.320 Altamines. That was the name of that company. Oh, got it. All right, Altamines. You left to do click

00:09:08.720 marketing. Yeah. And how long did you do that for? Probably like two or three years. Okay. Yeah. And

00:09:13.520 then you ended up, I'm assuming, getting a job. You said it was hard? No, I, it was really difficult.

00:09:19.700 So I just, I sold off all my clients and I took two months off. But like SaaS growth hacks is what?

00:09:25.000 two years old three years three three years old now okay and is this what you did before that

00:09:30.120 happened right after this break okay okay he took the break and then where when did you learn the

00:09:35.640 the trial conversion email yeah free trial stuff so i had a mentor at the time and he's like hey

00:09:40.920 why don't you uh this wasn't my idea it wasn't my idea okay this he was like why don't you why don't

00:09:45.320 you work with sass and i was like sass what does that say oh no that sounds really complicated i

00:09:49.480 don't even know if i want to get into that yeah um and then i figured out i found out what it was

00:09:53.880 And then he was like, why don't you start a Facebook group?

00:09:55.760 And I was like, OK.

00:09:56.440 At this point in my life, I had no.

00:09:58.340 I mean, I was just, you tell me something to do, and I'll do it.

00:10:00.500 Yeah, it sounds like, yeah, productive.

00:10:02.300 Like, I'm not going to ask any questions.

00:10:04.700 I'm just going to figure it out and do it.

00:10:06.220 So I started the group, and I just invited people manually through LinkedIn and, like,

00:10:10.360 cold email.

00:10:11.740 I remember you telling me about that cold email.

00:10:13.680 That's smart.

00:10:14.260 Yeah.

00:10:14.880 Really?

00:10:15.220 I tried it.

00:10:15.760 It didn't work.

00:10:18.280 Maybe I said it wrong.

00:10:18.960 You didn't have the desperation.

00:10:19.940 I didn't, I guess.

00:10:20.940 Or maybe there was just a moment in time.

00:10:22.920 Yeah.

00:10:23.300 Yeah.

00:10:23.620 Yeah.

00:10:23.880 That's long gone from YouTube.

00:10:26.100 I started sending out emails.

00:10:27.400 And then, so I entered the niche

00:10:29.760 without knowing what problem I was going to solve.

00:10:32.240 Then as soon as I got into it, so what I would do

00:10:34.000 is I asked people when they joined the group,

00:10:35.960 I said, what is the number one problem that you have?

00:10:38.540 And then I started seeing trends.

00:10:40.120 I would look through the Google Excel sheet.

00:10:42.300 How big is the group today?

00:10:43.800 16,000.

00:10:44.680 That's crazy.

00:10:45.580 I mean, I assume in the world there's only about 30,000 SaaS

00:10:48.560 companies.

00:10:49.060 I mean, that's cool.

00:10:49.860 Yeah, we get about 150, 200 a week.

00:10:53.820 Easily.

00:10:54.360 Easily.

00:10:54.880 And we turn down probably 60% if they don't answer the questions.

00:11:00.060 Yeah.

00:11:00.500 So our group could be way bigger, but I'm focused more on quality.

00:11:05.260 Curate.

00:11:05.820 Yeah, curatio.

00:11:06.620 Yeah, got to keep it high quality.

00:11:08.180 So yeah.

00:11:09.820 Then I figured out a problem to solve.

00:11:11.160 And I went to SaaS companies.

00:11:12.640 I was like, hey, I'll solve this problem for you if I don't do it.

00:11:15.040 What was the first SaaS company you worked with?

00:11:16.660 Oh, man.

00:11:18.600 Origin stories are so important, Aaron.

00:11:20.020 I worked with some really.

00:11:20.660 We need to craft that origin story.

00:11:22.740 Yeah, I know.

00:11:23.820 My favorite is when I'm like, oh, I love that guy.

00:11:26.560 What's his name again?

00:11:27.660 Oh, I look so stupid.

00:11:30.060 I can tell you this, that I'm not working with any of the

00:11:32.060 clients that I originally worked with.

00:11:33.540 OK, why is that?

00:11:34.920 Too early?

00:11:35.580 They were too small?

00:11:36.220 I made a bunch of mistakes.

00:11:38.500 Some of the clients were really good,

00:11:41.340 but really major problems that I was not.

00:11:44.020 Like co-founders not agreeing on stuff.

00:11:46.060 Yeah, that I was not capable of solving.

00:11:48.140 And I just said, I'll solve it for you.

00:11:49.580 Let me just come in and see what I can solve for you.

00:11:52.260 pay me x amount, pay me 5k, and if I can't do it,

00:11:54.640 I'll refund it to you.

00:11:55.760 And it's hard for somebody.

00:11:56.500 You're such a good dude, man.

00:11:57.600 It's hard to say no, even if I have no experience.

00:12:00.640 And they say, well, what experience do you have?

00:12:01.840 I'm like, I don't have any experience.

00:12:03.020 But guess what?

00:12:03.680 You're going to be my only client.

00:12:05.100 I'm going to spend 100% time on you.

00:12:07.020 And if you don't see results, I'm going to do all the work

00:12:09.540 in a second, and if you don't see results,

00:12:11.500 then you don't have to pay anything.

00:12:12.320 Dude, where are the other air crawls?

00:12:14.440 I'll bring those people on.

00:12:15.440 So I always tell people, people are like,

00:12:16.940 I don't have any case studies, I can't get any clients.

00:12:19.240 Like, the reason you're not getting any clients

00:12:20.940 is because you're not willing to put yourself in the line.

00:12:23.560 Yeah, and you're not hungry, and you're not

00:12:24.580 willing to create a really irresistible offer.

00:12:28.700 So then I started like, and then I realized, man,

00:12:31.100 I'm really good at onboarding.

00:12:32.200 Because I had a copywriting experience, you know, and video.

00:12:35.340 And so I just started researching onboarding.

00:12:38.020 Just put it closer to your.

00:12:39.320 Yeah.

00:12:40.360 I started researching onboarding and looking at emails,

00:12:44.560 started writing them, sending them out to clients,

00:12:46.120 and they just worked really well.

00:12:47.800 I was like, onboarding, maybe that's my thing.

00:12:50.640 So then I just focus on that for the next year and a half.

00:12:52.560 Onboarding, and then trials.

00:12:53.960 Onboarding, yeah, trial conversion.

00:12:56.280 And I come from a marketing background.

00:12:58.660 So things like conversion rate optimization for developers

00:13:03.580 is just totally out of their realm.

00:13:06.660 Yeah, they're like, that sounds like science.

00:13:08.480 So somebody like me who knows nothing about HTML,

00:13:11.120 I couldn't code myself out of a.

00:13:12.280 JavaScript, Node, React.

00:13:14.200 Yeah, I don't even know what that means, Casey.

00:13:16.000 You could be speaking a totally different language right now.

00:13:17.980 That's about as far as I go now,

00:13:19.060 because I'm a software guy that forgot how to code.

00:13:22.240 I just don't know anything.

00:13:23.080 Yeah, I never got into software.

00:13:24.580 I never really, I don't know anything about coding.

00:13:26.360 I don't know anything about that kind of stuff.

00:13:28.840 And so eventually, I just realized, I'm really good at this.

00:13:31.360 I'm just going to do this.

00:13:33.120 And what's been your favorite part being in this community?

00:13:36.100 Dude, I am like amazed at some of the movies

00:13:39.820 you see about software companies,

00:13:41.420 and maybe it's just because I'm not in San Francisco,

00:13:43.560 But everybody that I work with is just so cool and so humble.

00:13:49.320 When I go to SAS conferences, everybody

00:13:52.740 that I talk to is just so open, and they're so willing to chat.

00:13:55.680 They're really good people.

00:13:56.960 Dude, it's funny, Jared, who's not in the room, thank God,

00:13:58.920 because I'm going to talk about him.

00:14:01.000 We had Elias from Drift, one of the co-founder CTO.

00:14:05.280 And we needed to like, we have a show to shoot and da-da-da-da-da.

00:14:09.120 And after I was like, dude, why didn't you

00:14:10.960 like push the schedule along?

00:14:12.560 He's like, I'm not freaking talking to this guy.

00:14:14.300 He's a multimillionaire.

00:14:15.200 I don't know what I'm talking about.

00:14:16.040 I'm like, dude, they're just good people.

00:14:18.800 Don't worry.

00:14:20.000 It's normal.

00:14:20.720 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:14:22.160 Yeah, a lot of people.

00:14:24.200 And it's crazy impressive, the things they've done.

00:14:26.560 I mean, you've seen this probably in even the last few years,

00:14:28.640 these companies, you meet them here, and all of a sudden,

00:14:30.680 boom, they're at 300 employees and 50 million in revenue.

00:14:34.340 It's like, I don't even, for people outside,

00:14:37.880 that all they know is my uncle had a restaurant,

00:14:40.800 or my dad had a lawn mowing company or whatever.

00:14:44.800 It's a different level of scale.

00:14:46.980 Yeah.

00:14:48.600 But you've obviously continued to kind of sharpen the skills.

00:14:52.300 I mean, we've both given presentations at SAS stock

00:14:54.840 and many other sassy types events.

00:14:57.400 And you came and spoke at my last intensive or one

00:14:59.920 of my in Boston on trial conversion systems, traffic.

00:15:04.860 I think we did traffic conversion system

00:15:06.240 and trial conversion system.

00:15:07.980 You know your stuff, man.

00:15:09.120 You're, like, really, really incredible at what you do.

00:15:12.360 Where did that all come from?

00:15:13.740 Like, where's, who inspired you?

00:15:17.820 Yeah, that's really interesting.

00:15:19.060 So this has taken me years to figure out,

00:15:22.180 but I have always tried to, so this entrepreneur kind of,

00:15:29.940 like, mindset is you have to know everything

00:15:31.980 and be good at everything, for me.

00:15:34.500 If I have to rely on someone else to, like, you know,

00:15:38.580 to do something. Yeah, it's dangerous and I lose control. And if I don't know it, then what value

00:15:43.640 do I have? If I'm not the one providing all the information and the help, like what value do I

00:15:48.040 have? Right. My value comes from the knowledge that I have and what I'm able to like teach

00:15:53.500 people. And if I don't know something, then my value goes down. That's, that's kind of like my

00:15:57.780 mindset. So, um, I had to break through that. And when I broke through that, I started to realize

00:16:03.900 that um number one i don't need to have answers to all the questions the producer on a movie

00:16:09.420 like he doesn't do the acting he doesn't do the editing he doesn't like you know all he does is

00:16:13.420 bring all the right people together but if you didn't have a producer in a movie like there

00:16:16.860 would be no movie no movie right yeah um but you never see him so i realized that one i can be the

00:16:21.660 producer in two different ways one is i can bring people on and i can interview people who knows what

00:16:25.980 they're talking about and then my my zone of genius really is taking raw materials from all

00:16:32.460 these different places. Like I have a, it's funny, I have this book that it's just, it's probably

00:16:36.700 300 pages full of just junk mail. Like, what do you mean by junk mail? It's like direct mail.

00:16:43.500 Okay, I was thinking direct mail. Like from the 1950s or something about, hey, come buy this

00:16:47.900 jacket, you know. It's like copy? It's copy, it's copy. Yeah, yeah. And it's nothing to do with SaaS.

00:16:53.340 And I'm getting all these materials and I'm thinking, what other industries have solved

00:16:57.580 these problems already, and how can I move it into the SaaS world? And so it's taking all these

00:17:02.640 raw materials, like from books, and from courses, and from videos, and from what I know from my

00:17:06.760 mentors, and then creating these frameworks from it. And you know, it's something that you do too.

00:17:12.760 Yeah, man. Circles, squares, triangles.

00:17:14.380 Yeah. And creating these frameworks from a lot of complicated ideas is like really where I thrive.

00:17:21.860 Yeah.

00:17:22.700 And so if I see a problem in the SaaS community,

00:17:27.360 like retention, I dig deep into retention,

00:17:30.380 and then I pull from all these resources that

00:17:32.300 have nothing to do with SaaS, and then I put them together

00:17:35.020 into a framework that combines the best of everything,

00:17:38.200 and then we test it, and then make sure it works.

00:17:40.460 And then when it works, we scale it out.

00:17:42.400 That's cool.

00:17:43.020 Yeah.

00:17:45.520 So what frustrates you about your group?

00:17:49.980 Anything?

00:17:50.920 There are a lot of really sneaky marketers.

00:17:53.560 Sneaky buggers.

00:17:54.280 Yeah, sneaky buggers.

00:17:55.900 I do a public hanging with them in my group.

00:17:58.040 Yeah.

00:17:58.540 I just screenshot them, delete them, post it.

00:18:02.380 Don't be this guy.

00:18:03.580 Yeah, yeah.

00:18:05.140 But good news is.

00:18:06.040 I was just asking for advice.

00:18:07.640 Yeah, exactly.

00:18:08.620 No, you're not, buddy.

00:18:08.940 Yeah, exactly.

00:18:09.860 Trying to get users.

00:18:11.760 I need some advice on my software.

00:18:13.680 We are your peer, not your prospect.

00:18:15.460 Get out of here.

00:18:16.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:18:17.920 So I have a really good group of admins,

00:18:19.820 And they are just like, in the group chat

00:18:22.320 is just all these GIFs of just fire burning.

00:18:24.780 Like, burn it with fire.

00:18:26.180 Burn all the posts with fire.

00:18:27.180 Like if somebody posts something like that?

00:18:28.700 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:29.200 Light up the comments?

00:18:31.100 No, the chat blows up, the admin chat on Facebook.

00:18:34.340 It's like Josh will say something like, just burn the post.

00:18:36.860 I didn't know there was an admin chat.

00:18:37.520 I need to check this out.

00:18:38.620 So there's an internal chat.

00:18:39.860 There's an internal Facebook chat for admins.

00:18:41.980 Oh, man.

00:18:42.900 Maybe I'm not at that scale yet.

00:18:44.480 Invite only.

00:18:45.060 Yeah, invite only.

00:18:46.160 But yeah, I have a really good group of admin.

00:18:47.660 If it was up to me, I would, I usually look at the, like, I usually assume the best of

00:18:51.980 people.

00:18:53.240 And so if somebody.

00:18:53.980 Positive intent.

00:18:54.600 Yeah.

00:18:54.840 If somebody posts like, hey, I need to get feedback.

00:18:56.560 I'm like, well, the guy, maybe the guy needs feedback.

00:18:58.220 Yeah.

00:18:58.480 You know?

00:18:59.040 So do you give them like one warning?

00:19:00.960 We have a three strike rule.

00:19:02.380 Oh, you're way nicer than I am.

00:19:03.680 Yeah.

00:19:03.960 I'm a no strike.

00:19:05.360 I probably should give two.

00:19:06.760 I just feel like when I do the public, like, examples that I've given warning to everybody.

00:19:13.160 Yeah.

00:19:13.340 And there's no excuse for them not to read the rules or no, there's no excuse for them.

00:19:16.560 Well, I mean, that's the problem

00:19:17.760 is they don't even answer the questions.

00:19:20.020 So if you don't answer the question

00:19:21.560 or you answer them haphazardly, it's like,

00:19:23.340 how do I expect them to be a good contributor to the group?

00:19:28.660 Yeah, and also, Facebook has this thing

00:19:30.340 where it shows you if that's the first post.

00:19:33.220 Oh, it does it?

00:19:33.840 And so if their first post is, hey,

00:19:35.680 I need to get some advice on my software, and here it is.

00:19:38.280 And here's what I'm selling, and here's

00:19:39.320 a special discount for you.

00:19:40.260 But don't buy it.

00:19:40.920 I just need to get advice.

00:19:42.560 I just need to get advice.

00:19:43.660 We should do voices like that for the rest of our.

00:19:46.560 I'll do my custom, I'll do my interpretation of the Facebook group and you do yours.

00:19:51.460 It's like, I need some help here, boys.

00:19:57.060 I need some help.

00:19:57.800 I don't really bet the Bible do.

00:20:00.380 Oh, my gosh.

00:20:01.440 I love, you know, it's funny because, like, it's always the same stuff.

00:20:05.620 It's literally the early, the early people are like, I need to find somebody that's going to build my vision, but I don't have any money.

00:20:13.000 Who knows?

00:20:14.440 Who knows somebody?

00:20:15.980 Yeah.

00:20:16.300 Or, hey, I found this thing that I can just snap things together.

00:20:20.720 It'll build my code.

00:20:21.960 What do you guys think?

00:20:23.160 Yeah, and it's like, we get the question all the time, what's an intercub alternative?

00:20:30.360 Oh my God, what's the best email tool?

00:20:33.020 Yeah, what's the best email tool?

00:20:34.960 What's funny is those threads blow up because everybody has an opinion.

00:20:38.580 Everyone's got a strong opinion about it, but there's like a hundred of them.

00:20:41.900 It doesn't matter.

00:20:42.680 Just pick one.

00:20:43.400 And that's what's so cool about those groups is if we ask the right question, people will just light it up.

00:20:49.100 What's some of the most magical moments that you've seen in the 16,000 group?

00:20:54.400 Yeah, just like these things that have happened either in real life or in the group.

00:20:59.340 Oh, man.

00:21:00.460 I know tons of people that have made really good partnerships in the group.

00:21:04.340 Really?

00:21:04.540 They met somebody like, hey, let's integrate together.

00:21:07.340 Let's join partnership.

00:21:07.900 Any examples you can think of?

00:21:09.020 I can't think of any particular ones, but I know.

00:21:13.940 People have said.

00:21:14.840 Yeah.

00:21:15.540 People have said, I met this guy, and this was like.

00:21:17.760 Any in-person stuff?

00:21:18.640 I know we had a meetup last night.

00:21:19.800 I was late, too.

00:21:21.100 There's SGH meetups all over the world.

00:21:23.800 Have you done swag yet?

00:21:25.320 No.

00:21:26.440 No.

00:21:26.980 You don't watch YouTube?

00:21:28.260 I was thinking about doing bandanas.

00:21:31.260 What do you think?

00:21:32.440 Bandanas?

00:21:33.000 Yeah, bandanas are like a gold tooth.

00:21:37.340 Oh, my God.

00:21:37.840 I love it.

00:21:38.380 I love it.

00:21:39.020 They didn't even know how to get gold tubes at scale.

00:21:43.400 You should do a whole lot of merch of like the worst merch.

00:21:45.820 The worst merch.

00:21:46.320 The worst.

00:21:47.120 Yeah, it is like, he's got to be joking.

00:21:49.320 Clown shoes with like SGH on it and my face.

00:21:52.460 Yeah, just like, yeah, you got to put your face on it

00:21:54.740 in full color, just like no reason whatsoever.

00:21:57.680 No, I've thought about doing merch,

00:21:58.940 but I just like one of those things

00:22:00.340 that just going to pull me away from what's important.

00:22:03.920 If I had somebody to do it for me, I'd be like, hey,

00:22:05.840 just go create merch.

00:22:07.140 Yeah, that's not what you're doing.

00:22:08.480 And then in regards to like learning how to offer, you know, customers what they want,

00:22:15.720 you know, you know, it sounds like you were broad in the beginning, you got more focus,

00:22:19.780 niche, now what you're doing, like, what have you learned about that process to help people?

00:22:24.240 Oh man, I, if I, everybody's told me at the beginning that you should focus on a niche,

00:22:28.880 focus on a niche. And I said, why do people don't? Do you think it's because they're worried

00:22:32.100 they're going to pick the wrong niche? Because here's the funny part. It doesn't matter what

00:22:35.280 niche you pick.

00:22:37.740 I think people are like, OK, let's say I'm in the health.

00:22:40.000 So you think I should just do muscle gain program?

00:22:43.680 It's like, yeah, there's a market in the health space

00:22:45.660 for just people who want to put on muscle.

00:22:47.040 Or even in the muscle gain, it's for the skinny guy.

00:22:51.240 Skinny nerd.

00:22:51.960 Yeah, the skinny nerd muscle gain.

00:22:55.020 People think, well, what if I go too narrow

00:22:57.120 and it's not a big enough market?

00:22:58.200 It's like, no.

00:22:59.220 And you don't got to stay there.

00:23:01.240 You just got to be known for.

00:23:02.220 You've got to start there to get traction, and then you scale,

00:23:06.220 and then you can move up.

00:23:07.440 So everybody told you this, and you did why?

00:23:08.940 I didn't do it.

00:23:09.480 I didn't do it because I was afraid, well,

00:23:11.160 if I focus on too much, then what about all these other

00:23:14.400 companies that are going to come to me?

00:23:15.660 I mean, do I say no?

00:23:17.740 Do I say no?

00:23:18.280 Do I turn them away?

00:23:19.080 Yeah, that's crazy.

00:23:20.060 I can barely pay my rent, you know?

00:23:22.540 Money.

00:23:23.120 And so there's this fine line between understanding

00:23:26.080 and serving a niche and then being an idiot

00:23:28.320 and not taking on clients that you need to take on when

00:23:30.640 you're starting.

00:23:31.140 Is your home page still your face?

00:23:33.180 Is it a blue?

00:23:34.080 It's a gif of my face.

00:23:35.380 Yes.

00:23:35.880 It's a gif, and I'm going back and forth.

00:23:37.380 Was it always a gif, though?

00:23:38.400 No, it's not a gif.

00:23:39.360 No, it's not a gif.

00:23:40.360 It's a photo, right?

00:23:40.980 It's just a photo, yeah.

00:23:41.660 Yeah, I remember.

00:23:42.440 Yeah, do you remember our first conversation?

00:23:44.440 I do remember.

00:23:44.940 I remember like it was yesterday.

00:23:45.960 Tell me about it.

00:23:47.960 You sent me an email, and you said, hey, Dan Martell here.

00:23:52.140 You know me, clearly.

00:23:54.380 That's exactly what I thought.

00:23:55.740 Somebody said we should chat, hit me up.

00:23:57.380 And I was like, Dan Martell?

00:23:58.920 Who is this guy?

00:23:59.520 Who is this guy?

00:24:00.620 So then I looked him up.

00:24:01.500 I looked you up, talking about you like your third person.

00:24:04.860 I looked him up at Dan, and I was like, oh, well,

00:24:09.020 this guy sounds like he knows what he's doing.

00:24:11.140 Clarity, wow, all right, sweet.

00:24:13.440 Had you heard of Clarity?

00:24:14.600 Yeah, I've definitely heard of Clarity.

00:24:16.640 And I was like, wow.

00:24:18.680 And I was pretty intimidated initially.

00:24:22.520 Zoom video, I think, right?

00:24:23.520 And it was a Zoom video, and you had your iPad out.

00:24:25.560 And I think you shared your screen with me.

00:24:28.340 You were drawing on your iPad.

00:24:29.660 And I was like, what is this guy doing?

00:24:31.580 Why is he drawing on his iPad?

00:24:32.840 I thought it was cool.

00:24:33.780 Yeah.

00:24:34.280 And I was like, wow.

00:24:34.820 What were we talking about, onboarding?

00:24:35.820 I need to get an iPad.

00:24:37.580 No, yeah, we were talking about onboarding.

00:24:39.140 Yeah, I can't talk and not draw.

00:24:40.480 You were kind of like vetting me a little bit.

00:24:42.540 Maybe.

00:24:43.040 And then you said, and this was before Christmas.

00:24:45.620 Yeah.

00:24:46.220 And you said, oh, you have a course?

00:24:48.360 Let me buy it.

00:24:48.940 And I was like, what?

00:24:50.000 I did.

00:24:50.340 I bought your course.

00:24:51.200 And you bought my course?

00:24:52.220 I buy everything.

00:24:52.840 Well, I mean, obviously, I thought it was going to be good.

00:24:54.180 Well, thanks.

00:24:54.680 No, it makes me feel really special.

00:24:57.080 I buy everything that I think is good.

00:24:58.140 I got a bunch of seeds I want to sell you.

00:24:59.560 Yeah.

00:25:00.060 They go up to this guy.

00:25:03.140 And this goose.

00:25:07.500 And you bought my course.

00:25:08.360 And I was like, whoa, sweet.

00:25:09.800 That's cool.

00:25:10.840 And then I talked.

00:25:11.520 Was that your first client on this?

00:25:14.840 I said, fuck, somebody bought my course.

00:25:16.980 Hey, Dad, somebody bought my course.

00:25:20.200 And he drew me a picture.

00:25:21.200 And it was in Christmas.

00:25:22.000 I was like, oh, sweet, extra Christmas money.

00:25:23.580 I remember thinking that.

00:25:24.200 Extra Christmas money I didn't think I was going to get.

00:25:26.120 And I was like, really, this is really cool.

00:25:28.840 And then most of the conversations I have with people

00:25:30.860 end up turning into nothing.

00:25:32.120 Like I talk with people all the time, like, hey, let's do this.

00:25:34.400 And I'm like, sure.

00:25:35.560 And then nothing ever happens.

00:25:36.580 But we kept in contact.

00:25:38.240 And then I was really impressed by you.

00:25:42.200 And then you said, let's do a live in your group.

00:25:44.920 And then we did a Facebook Live where you just said, hey,

00:25:48.220 I just want to talk about, I think

00:25:49.840 it was the winning webinar method.

00:25:51.840 I did it in your group.

00:25:52.660 Yeah.

00:25:53.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:25:53.660 You did a live.

00:25:54.200 Yeah, the winning webinar.

00:25:55.200 And I was like, wow, this is really cool.

00:25:56.660 And the way that you talk to people

00:25:58.020 and you brought people on, I remember distinctly you

00:26:00.060 saying, all right, welcome.

00:26:02.820 What is the company and what is the problem you solve?

00:26:04.860 Who does your market and what is the problem you solve?

00:26:06.480 You used to say that for every single person that got,

00:26:08.960 because we did an AMA.

00:26:10.020 And I was like, man, this guy really thinks, I think.

00:26:11.960 But isn't it funny?

00:26:12.640 I think I remember that.

00:26:13.440 It might have been around that time,

00:26:14.600 but people get on and they still wouldn't

00:26:15.960 answer the question.

00:26:16.720 I remember that.

00:26:17.220 I remember like, hey, you're not, I remember you saying that.

00:26:19.380 Hey, man.

00:26:19.880 Hey, you're not answering the question.

00:26:21.000 You're like, it's too long, it's too long of a question.

00:26:23.180 How do I get leads?

00:26:23.980 And I'm like, you're like, I don't.

00:26:24.980 You didn't answer the question.

00:26:26.220 Yeah.

00:26:26.680 Is my business idea good?

00:26:27.720 It's like, I don't know, man.

00:26:29.520 It's so weird.

00:26:30.140 What should I do with my business?

00:26:31.140 Yeah, I get those.

00:26:31.680 It's like, here's my business plan.

00:26:32.740 What do you think?

00:26:34.120 Yeah, I got nothing better.

00:26:35.100 Let me print this off.

00:26:36.440 Sunday morning, I'll block out three hours,

00:26:38.500 and I'll give you a very detailed.

00:26:40.260 I know, yeah.

00:26:41.380 Yeah, yeah, I've had to say no a lot of times.

00:26:43.420 So that was the first time that we get to collaborate,

00:26:46.700 and then we hung out at SassDoc.

00:26:48.780 Yeah, we hung out at SassDoc, and from that moment on,

00:26:50.700 we were best buds.

00:26:51.340 Yeah, best buds couldn't, yeah.

00:26:52.720 Because just, it's fun, man.

00:26:54.400 Like, I love meeting people like yourself, Aaron,

00:26:56.000 that are just, you know, you're hungry, you're smart,

00:26:58.760 you're thoughtful, you're kind.

00:27:02.200 No, keep going.

00:27:03.000 Yeah, no, I'm like, what else could I add in there to,

00:27:05.360 yeah, yeah, no, don't stop.

00:27:06.740 Don't stop, Dan.

00:27:07.440 How else did you feel?

00:27:09.400 And that, you know, it's just like unanimous.

00:27:10.840 Everybody you talk to feels that way.

00:27:12.480 And I've seen, you know, to me, it's performance over time.

00:27:14.980 And that's how I do vet people.

00:27:16.620 I'm like, hey, man, let's get on a call.

00:27:17.820 Let's do video.

00:27:18.480 I want to see, I want to like look at your eyes.

00:27:20.140 I want to see like, how do you think about it?

00:27:21.680 And the funny part is, is at that time,

00:27:23.640 because I was like, I get called all the time

00:27:25.360 for all my software friends, like who's the best guy,

00:27:27.700 who should I turn to, blah, blah, blah.

00:27:29.700 And I like to know who's actually good.

00:27:32.600 And around that time, I probably talked

00:27:34.080 to like five different people that were known

00:27:36.300 for similar stuff to you.

00:27:37.900 And I didn't collaborate with any of the other ones, right?

00:27:40.600 Just because you meet them and you're like,

00:27:42.660 I don't think he knows what he's talking about

00:27:44.260 or he doesn't feel, I don't feel like he's in it

00:27:46.580 for the right reasons.

00:27:47.520 Or, you know, I just don't think he's actually

00:27:49.760 going to deliver results or whatever it is.

00:27:52.200 And then I had you come speak at my event, which was super fun.

00:27:54.980 Was it cool?

00:27:55.940 I mean, whatever.

00:27:57.080 Who cares?

00:27:58.000 It's like, should I say that?

00:27:59.000 It's a loaded question, Dan.

00:28:00.140 Was it cool to like, because I think I flew you out on business?

00:28:03.300 Was that fun?

00:28:04.080 That was the best speaking experience I've ever had in my life.

00:28:06.380 Because I like to do on others, right?

00:28:11.180 What was the best, what made it the best speaking experience?

00:28:14.180 Well, I had my own personal waiter and a masseuse.

00:28:16.320 And that was like even before you got on the plane.

00:28:19.160 That was right before airport security.

00:28:23.240 When they land, how do you want that experience?

00:28:25.000 I'm like, before they get to the airport, let's...

00:28:28.160 I had a guy lift me, literally lift me from airport security to the plane.

00:28:34.180 Come with me, sir.

00:28:35.700 Mr. Martell asked me that I personally handle you all the way to the door.

00:28:40.840 No, I...

00:28:41.600 But I mean, Larry almost acts like that, so...

00:28:44.520 Yeah, I mean, you set me up with this guy that...

00:28:46.720 I call him ground control.

00:28:47.680 Texted me my flight, my updates.

00:28:50.020 I got into business class.

00:28:51.200 I was like, this is why people get freaking flyer miles.

00:28:55.820 This is why people pay extra.

00:28:56.920 This is absolutely amazing.

00:28:59.320 It was the best speaking flight experience I've ever had.

00:29:02.920 That's cool.

00:29:03.580 Hands down.

00:29:04.180 No one's ever done that for me.

00:29:06.360 And you really want to make an impression on someone,

00:29:08.260 you treat them like you want to be treated.

00:29:10.260 And from that moment on, I was like, whatever, wherever.

00:29:13.960 It's little stuff.

00:29:14.520 Even when people come, if I fly somebody

00:29:16.780 into my hometown to speak at a thing.

00:29:18.580 I always like meet him at the airport, pick him up,

00:29:20.540 like drop him up, wake up at five in the morning,

00:29:22.500 drop him off.

00:29:23.340 I just feel like, I remember big Omaha, Jeff Slobatsky,

00:29:27.880 he did this, you know, like picks me up.

00:29:30.160 Like he's running the event, there's 1,500 people

00:29:33.920 and he's like, yo, hey Dan, thanks so much

00:29:36.540 for coming to Omaha.

00:29:37.380 I'm like, don't you have, like, he's like, I got a team.

00:29:40.520 I just wanted to make sure.

00:29:41.660 And I was like, he's like, you need anything?

00:29:43.140 I was like, why?

00:29:44.280 I forgot my phone charge.

00:29:45.720 I mean, I don't want to, I don't even want to say it.

00:29:48.080 I don't want to say it.

00:29:48.900 And he's like, no, no, no, no worries.

00:29:50.180 We'll get you a phone charger.

00:29:51.220 I'm like, this is crazy.

00:29:52.560 Dude, and I didn't do this for you, I apologize.

00:29:54.360 He even gave me a credit card with a prepaid credit card.

00:29:58.400 No way.

00:29:59.220 Yeah, so I'm like, oh, he put 50 bucks on this, right?

00:30:02.340 So I'm like, I might have had it in my laptop bag,

00:30:04.980 but I never used it.

00:30:06.320 And maybe six months later, I'm talking to Jeff,

00:30:08.320 and I'm like, hey man, I just want to tell you,

00:30:09.500 thanks for picking me up.

00:30:10.440 Incredible experience, all this stuff.

00:30:11.960 And like, yeah, it was really nice to touch with,

00:30:13.660 you know, that credit card or whatever prepaid, you know.

00:30:16.660 But, like, you know, I didn't use it.

00:30:18.660 I'm not going to use it.

00:30:19.660 You don't expect $20, $25, $50 maybe.

00:30:21.660 He's like, dude, there's $500 on there.

00:30:23.160 I was like, I may use it now.

00:30:25.560 Can I go buy something, you know?

00:30:26.660 Like, yeah, like real money.

00:30:28.260 Wow.

00:30:28.760 Isn't that crazy?

00:30:29.360 Yeah.

00:30:29.960 Yeah.

00:30:30.460 I mean, and how often, and just the fact

00:30:32.420 that you're telling the story, you know, and talking about it.

00:30:34.360 Dude, he had Jack Dorsey.

00:30:35.900 He had all the top speakers because he treated people

00:30:39.460 like that.

00:30:39.960 Yeah.

00:30:40.460 It was an indie event.

00:30:41.560 Most people, it was a flyover state.

00:30:43.360 They, you know, they were punching way above their weight for, you know, Gary V spoke there

00:30:48.100 multiple years in a row just because of the quality. Little things, man. Little things.

00:30:52.660 I'd much rather spend a thousand bucks flying someone first class and give me a credit card

00:30:56.500 for, you know, somebody, an influencer or even maybe not an influencer, just somebody

00:31:00.800 because you never know. They're always going to talk about that story. I'd rather spend that

00:31:04.020 money than doing it. Well, my buddy Jason Gaynor has got a great, I don't know if it's his,

00:31:08.040 but he says it quite often, you know, go the extra mile because it's rarely crowded.

00:31:13.360 Oh, yeah.

00:31:14.260 So good, right?

00:31:15.160 100%.

00:31:15.660 I love that.

00:31:16.160 Yeah, it's like just that last little thing.

00:31:18.060 Yeah.

00:31:18.860 Because in doing that, it's really in that moment

00:31:22.300 that you get what you hope, which is referrals, word of mouth,

00:31:25.880 people appreciating things.

00:31:27.480 You can do everything else great, but it's that last 10%

00:31:30.900 that's going to get you the bang.

00:31:33.480 What are you seeing?

00:31:34.280 I mean, let's talk SAS since this is predominantly

00:31:36.860 what we talk about.

00:31:37.860 What are you seeing in the world of onboarding,

00:31:42.560 activation conversions that you're liking?

00:31:45.440 You know, companies doing some smart stuff,

00:31:48.060 or is it still pretty basic?

00:31:50.480 You know, there's two onboarding experiences

00:31:52.100 I went through that really blew me away recently.

00:31:55.100 The first one was Superhuman.

00:31:57.260 Unpack this for people, because I got to figure out.

00:32:00.000 I think I know the name of the founder.

00:32:01.420 Do you know the founder name?

00:32:04.060 I got to get him on here, because everybody tells me

00:32:06.500 about Superhuman.

00:32:06.920 I think it's Rahul.

00:32:08.060 Yes, I believe so.

00:32:09.560 And they are funded.

00:32:10.360 I think Andreessen invested, unpack it for people.

00:32:14.860 Unbelievable.

00:32:15.600 So for those of you who don't know,

00:32:18.740 Superhuman is an email platform.

00:32:21.860 That's why it blows my mind.

00:32:23.120 Yeah, and you pay $30 a month for it, for email.

00:32:25.540 Blown twice.

00:32:26.380 Yeah.

00:32:27.460 I don't need another email client, and I'm not paying for it.

00:32:30.360 Yeah.

00:32:30.860 But somehow, they've been able to get people to do this at scale.

00:32:33.460 Are you a customer?

00:32:34.360 I am a customer, yeah.

00:32:35.460 All right, give me an invite.

00:32:36.520 I freaking love Superhuman.

00:32:37.360 Enough so now.

00:32:37.780 I love it.

00:32:39.520 But in order to get into Superhuman,

00:32:42.040 you need to take a, you need to apply.

00:32:45.040 You need to apply, like a different email.

00:32:47.980 And they ask you questions like, do you use these plugins?

00:32:50.600 Are these plugins necessary for you?

00:32:52.020 Do you do this?

00:32:53.280 How do you use email?

00:32:54.660 The first time I filled it out, I was like, OK.

00:32:56.920 And I put on all these plugins that I use.

00:32:58.960 And I was like, I need to have these, these, and these.

00:33:00.580 How long did it take you to fill out?

00:33:01.160 I don't know, probably like five minutes.

00:33:03.380 OK.

00:33:03.880 It wasn't too long.

00:33:04.720 OK, didn't feel honest.

00:33:05.620 I got an email from Rahul or from their team.

00:33:07.860 I was like, hey, we looked at you.

00:33:08.900 Sure you did.

00:33:09.480 We got a, Rahul literally, he sat down.

00:33:12.820 And he crafted a personalized, he

00:33:14.740 took a screenshot of my website.

00:33:15.400 He refused every application.

00:33:16.800 Yeah.

00:33:19.780 And he personally sent me an email,

00:33:22.380 and he said, hey, I don't think you're

00:33:24.780 going to be a good fit for superhuman.

00:33:26.680 Did you get rejected?

00:33:27.800 Did you?

00:33:28.300 I got rejected.

00:33:28.840 Oh, snap.

00:33:29.620 I got rejected, and I was like, no!

00:33:32.360 So I freaked out.

00:33:33.540 I freaked out.

00:33:34.380 I replied.

00:33:35.180 I was like, well, well, you know,

00:33:37.760 I don't really need access to all those plug-ins.

00:33:40.960 I just, you know, and I'm going to be a good customer.

00:33:43.140 OK, because I was wondering if they were actually

00:33:44.580 rejecting people.

00:33:45.380 Oh, yeah.

00:33:45.740 You got rejected.

00:33:46.520 I got rejected.

00:33:47.220 And that's one thing that I really appreciated.

00:33:50.580 Because you see, I mean, there's all these things like countdown

00:33:52.780 timers.

00:33:53.280 Take your money.

00:33:53.780 You know, it's all fake.

00:33:55.500 It's playing out.

00:33:56.060 It's fake scarcity.

00:33:56.900 It's fake that.

00:33:58.080 But what they did was they pre-qualified people

00:34:02.520 knowing that if they didn't meet certain criteria,

00:34:06.520 they wouldn't have a good experience with the product.

00:34:08.440 Like if I needed to have Clearbit and I couldn't get it

00:34:12.780 on Superhuman, I'm not gonna leave a good review

00:34:14.660 of Clearbit or on Superhuman.

00:34:15.780 And retention is gonna go crap.

00:34:17.240 So they're like.

00:34:18.080 Yeah, exactly, exactly.

00:34:18.940 And then once I got into the tool, they forced me to go.

00:34:23.940 The demo.

00:34:24.860 They forced me to go to a demo.

00:34:25.880 I've heard this.

00:34:27.040 And I could not create my account.

00:34:28.960 No, but is that where they do the sale, technically?

00:34:31.900 That's where they do the sale.

00:34:32.760 Do they take a credit card?

00:34:33.860 Yeah.

00:34:34.600 On the call?

00:34:35.180 Yeah.

00:34:35.860 I love this.

00:34:37.200 Yeah, they did the demo, and they were like,

00:34:39.480 tell me some of your email frustrations.

00:34:42.000 And I was like, well, this, this, this, and this, and this.

00:34:44.100 And he's like, well, let me show you how I can solve some of this.

00:34:46.160 Do you feel like he was actually doing a sales process?

00:34:50.760 You know, I was really paying attention to it, because my whole job.

00:34:55.260 Yeah, you're reverse engineering stuff.

00:34:56.520 Yeah, my job is paying attention to this.

00:34:58.280 You're an investigator.

00:34:59.420 Yeah, so I paid a lot of attention to it.

00:35:01.420 What was it?

00:35:02.340 Investor coup?

00:35:03.020 Oh, I forgot.

00:35:03.640 I was going to make a joke.

00:35:05.860 It was going to be good, too.

00:35:06.760 Columbo?

00:35:07.360 Yeah, but like investor Cousteau or whatever.

00:35:09.220 Oh, Cousteau.

00:35:10.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:10.660 Jean Cousteau.

00:35:11.260 Yeah, Sas Cousteau.

00:35:13.600 And I was like, I know this is going to be a sales call.

00:35:16.100 I know they're going to sell me on something.

00:35:17.300 Let me just look and see how they're going to do it.

00:35:19.260 And the demo was really good.

00:35:20.440 It was really good.

00:35:21.400 By that time, I was so emotionally invested

00:35:23.540 into the product, because here's what happened.

00:35:26.500 I skipped this.

00:35:28.000 I reapplied under a different email address.

00:35:31.520 Like, screw them.

00:35:32.260 I'm going to change my application.

00:35:33.460 And I said, nope, I don't need any plug-ins.

00:35:35.360 No, I just want to pay for your, I literally probably

00:35:38.000 said, I just want to pay for email.

00:35:39.480 You did the opposite of your first application.

00:35:41.380 Exactly.

00:35:41.840 And then they sent me an email like, oh,

00:35:43.120 it looks like you qualified.

00:35:44.340 And I was like, oh, good.

00:35:45.080 They didn't track my emails or duplicate.

00:35:48.700 And so finally, I got into the demo, went through the demo.

00:35:52.220 What's so great about the product?

00:35:54.920 You know, is it really, is it because you're

00:35:57.360 emotionally connected to it now?

00:35:58.760 I think probably.

00:36:00.300 I think probably there's a huge amount of ego involved in that

00:36:03.180 because I spent so much time trying to get in.

00:36:04.680 For 30 bucks is three Netflix.

00:36:06.940 Three Netflix value is pretty high.

00:36:09.180 Yeah.

00:36:10.020 Do you get three Netflix worth of value?

00:36:11.640 I feel like I get $30 of value a month from Superhuman.

00:36:16.240 What I don't know is if I can do the same thing on Gmail.

00:36:20.300 I don't know.

00:36:21.360 There's things on Superhuman.

00:36:22.500 Because they have automation stuff, but which is, right?

00:36:24.460 Superhuman?

00:36:24.960 Yeah, Superhuman.

00:36:26.440 No, they don't.

00:36:27.180 They don't have automation, like filters and stuff?

00:36:28.940 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:36:29.500 They have filters and stuff like that.

00:36:30.980 But, I mean, it's so great when I get an email from someone that says,

00:36:34.680 hey, follow up with me in two weeks.

00:36:36.600 I go, cool, I press H. I just press H on the keyboard

00:36:38.940 and say two weeks, boom.

00:36:40.200 And then it'll send me a reminder in two weeks.

00:36:42.380 So that's the thing is the Gmail Labs and Gmail plugins,

00:36:45.760 it has all these features now.

00:36:47.720 But because Gmail is trying to, it's like Word, right?

00:36:52.020 It's like I'm trying to.

00:36:52.860 It's getting out of control.

00:36:53.740 Yeah, well, and I'm just, they bury things

00:36:55.320 to not scare first time users.

00:36:57.340 So for a power user, but that's the whole thing

00:36:59.460 is Word is arguably one of the most successful software

00:37:01.560 products in the history of all mankind.

00:37:04.440 It can technically do everything, but how you do that

00:37:08.100 is advanced features versus non.

00:37:10.140 So maybe it's the same thing.

00:37:12.300 They just kind of had a bit more.

00:37:13.980 Is there anything unique that you

00:37:15.520 think that they do that others don't?

00:37:19.080 Is it the hot, because they train you on the hot keys?

00:37:21.240 They're hot, yeah, they train you on the hot keys.

00:37:22.920 See, that's the thing is, again, I

00:37:24.540 was showing Jarrett today my email process,

00:37:27.840 and I didn't realize how much hot keys, because he's like,

00:37:30.060 whoa, what just happened?

00:37:30.840 J, J, J, E, E, J, E.

00:37:32.160 I'm just like, I don't touch my mouse.

00:37:34.080 And I'm moving between Docs and copy and paste and links.

00:37:36.780 And da da da da da.

00:37:37.620 You do that on Gmail?

00:37:38.640 Yeah, that's the thing.

00:37:39.480 There's a button that says hotkeys, enable hotkeys.

00:37:41.220 And you click it.

00:37:42.300 Right?

00:37:42.800 Don't tell me this, Dan.

00:37:43.500 Don't tell me this.

00:37:44.120 Well, it's just, and I heard the interaction design

00:37:47.880 is beautiful.

00:37:48.680 It is.

00:37:49.140 Yeah.

00:37:50.320 Yeah.

00:37:50.820 What else does it do?

00:37:51.720 Maybe the next day I can burst.

00:37:53.360 And their focus, it's really interesting,

00:37:54.960 their focus is inbox zero.

00:37:58.340 And that's not a concept that I, what's really interesting

00:38:00.960 is that the concepts that they talked about.

00:38:02.340 Do they get you to go to your newsletter

00:38:03.620 and just unsubscribe?

00:38:05.340 Because that'll get you to inbox.

00:38:06.980 Most people's inbox is full of newsletters.

00:38:09.560 Oh, yeah.

00:38:10.520 So do they make you do that?

00:38:11.740 Do they like?

00:38:12.320 Command U is unsubscribe.

00:38:14.280 So you don't need to find the link.

00:38:16.340 That's pretty cool.

00:38:17.160 Command U is unsubscribe and delete all emails

00:38:19.920 from this person.

00:38:21.420 That's pretty badass.

00:38:22.460 Yeah, yeah.

00:38:23.840 So you can do, you can, I mean, I can label stuff

00:38:26.220 and I can move stuff in a folder.

00:38:27.260 That's worth 30 bucks, especially for my assistant.

00:38:30.120 Because she's like, I'm trying to unsubscribe,

00:38:32.000 but it's like whack-a-mole.

00:38:33.240 She's like whack-a-mole.

00:38:34.200 And she's like, I think when I unsubscribe from one list,

00:38:36.540 it tells the other guy, they sell your email.

00:38:38.900 And I'm like.

00:38:39.440 Yeah, yeah.

00:38:39.840 This guy's active.

00:38:40.620 He unsubscribed.

00:38:41.240 It's a real email.

00:38:42.020 Yeah.

00:38:42.240 And then they're like, oh, you don't want to be on my list?

00:38:43.740 That's cool.

00:38:44.040 I'm going to sell you for like 15 cents

00:38:45.660 to these three other guys.

00:38:47.580 That's what she thinks.

00:38:48.540 Because she's like, it doesn't make sense.

00:38:49.920 It's whack-a-mole.

00:38:50.560 Every time she gets rid of one, it

00:38:51.780 seems like there's more that show up.

00:38:53.120 And I'm not subscribing to newsletters.

00:38:55.680 Yeah, 100%.

00:38:57.180 So there's all these little shortcut things

00:38:59.120 and the idea of inbox zero and all that.

00:39:01.780 But anyway, so the onboarding is really great

00:39:03.600 after that experience, too, because they send out drip

00:39:06.540 emails, which I've always said, drip emails, if you can't do

00:39:10.440 This is what you teach.

00:39:11.160 If you can't do triggered emails, do drip emails.

00:39:14.780 But the drip emails are so good.

00:39:16.020 And unpack Trigger versus Drip.

00:39:17.520 So Trigger is sending emails based on user actions

00:39:22.300 or inaction.

00:39:23.340 So after three days, if they haven't sent an email yet,

00:39:25.300 You send an email that says, hey, you haven't sent an email yet.

00:39:27.860 Here's how to do it.

00:39:30.000 But with Drip, with Superhuman, they have a Drip campaign that you go into.

00:39:34.300 And it's like every email is, and this is what I teach, is it talks about a pain.

00:39:40.980 Ever sent an email you didn't want to send?

00:39:44.500 And then it says something like, we've all done it.

00:39:48.580 Sent an email to someone that we didn't want to send it to.

00:39:51.020 And now we couldn't undo it.

00:39:52.060 With Superhuman, it's easy.

00:39:53.200 You do this, da-da-da.

00:39:53.840 and there's a little gif, and it shows you the undo,

00:39:55.720 which is really quick.

00:39:57.080 Try it out now, Rahul.

00:39:59.080 That's it.

00:39:59.580 That's the whole email.

00:40:00.620 So Rahul sent you another personal email?

00:40:02.660 Rahul literally.

00:40:05.120 Man, this is great.

00:40:07.040 I don't know how the guy does it.

00:40:08.040 Do the things that don't scale.

00:40:08.960 I keep hearing it.

00:40:09.620 Do the things that don't scale.

00:40:10.520 That's what's most impressive about this whole thing.

00:40:12.320 It's amazing.

00:40:14.440 And Rahul, if you're listening, thank you so much

00:40:17.180 for spending the time.

00:40:17.940 Rahul, just come on the show so I can talk about all your

00:40:21.020 How do you do it?

00:40:21.600 You do it?

00:40:21.900 Two hands?

00:40:22.580 Yeah, two hands.

00:40:23.700 He's working, yeah, full hours.

00:40:25.940 Yeah, so it was really good because every email

00:40:28.940 that I got after that was like, what are they going to show me

00:40:32.220 now?

00:40:32.600 He's like, sent using superhuman.

00:40:35.460 You know, like he created all this stuff using his own tool.

00:40:38.060 Yeah.

00:40:38.400 Personalized email at scale using superhuman.

00:40:42.260 Yeah, so and then each email after that, I would be like,

00:40:44.820 oh, I wonder what new kind of cool thing

00:40:47.000 they're going to show me next time.

00:40:48.640 You know, and the next thing was like hotkey.

00:40:50.880 Like, oh, wow, I didn't know I could do that in superhuman.

00:40:53.200 The next email is like.

00:40:54.040 OK, so they're teaching you through the drip.

00:40:55.300 Yeah.

00:40:56.040 And do you think they prioritize based on what they knew?

00:40:59.260 Oh, 100%.

00:41:00.000 Yeah, so they looked at, I mean, this

00:41:01.400 is the thing I tell people I'll do

00:41:02.340 is look at your activity stream.

00:41:03.440 That's why I call it activity stream,

00:41:04.360 essentially your date of features for highest retention.

00:41:05.800 Yeah, and I'm sure they have an activation metric too.

00:41:07.640 Yeah, and they're like, oh, people that retain

00:41:09.440 use these things, front load them in your sequence.

00:41:11.860 Yeah.

00:41:12.680 Like that command unsubscribe, that was one of the emails.

00:41:14.740 I forgot from the demo that that's one thing that I could do.

00:41:17.560 OK, so they still demo it.

00:41:18.820 And this might be a good lesson learned,

00:41:20.360 is just because you taught it to somebody doesn't mean.

00:41:22.440 100%.

00:41:23.060 They're only going to remember a few things.

00:41:26.480 And what's even interesting is I'll go through the commands

00:41:29.360 and I'll be like, oh, I remember they

00:41:30.940 talked about this in the demo, but I totally forgot about it.

00:41:33.740 So people do not care about you.

00:41:36.880 And they don't care about your product.

00:41:38.300 What they care about is their problem.

00:41:40.380 And if you can show them how to solve their problems

00:41:42.200 on a regular basis, then they're going to love you for it,

00:41:45.780 even if you've already told them once.

00:41:47.240 Yeah.

00:41:48.240 As long as you start with that problem statement.

00:41:50.180 Yeah.

00:41:51.020 And then you said that's one on-board play.

00:41:52.940 Yeah, the other one I went through was kind of embarrassing.

00:41:56.060 Noom.

00:41:57.700 That's not that embarrassing.

00:41:58.940 Well, you know.

00:41:59.880 All right, I was expecting something

00:42:00.880 a little bit more edgier, dude.

00:42:02.780 What were you thinking, Noom?

00:42:03.960 I'm not going to say.

00:42:05.840 So I signed up for Noom.

00:42:06.620 Rhymes with torn up, not joking.

00:42:11.460 So what's Noom?

00:42:12.620 Noom is a weight loss app.

00:42:13.620 I'm like, that's not that embarrassing.

00:42:14.800 I don't even know what it is.

00:42:15.540 Noom is a weight loss app.

00:42:16.480 OK.

00:42:17.820 And the thing about weight loss is-

00:42:20.820 Is it weight loss or just food tracking?

00:42:23.100 It's weight loss.

00:42:23.820 OK, cool.

00:42:24.480 It's weight loss.

00:42:25.700 The thing about weight loss is that, dude,

00:42:28.780 trying to enter the weight loss market in 2019, that is crazy.

00:42:33.300 Yeah.

00:42:33.600 It's totally crazy.

00:42:34.540 It's called a red ocean.

00:42:35.860 Yeah, it's like bloody organs.

00:42:37.780 Put on your speedo and jump on in.

00:42:41.220 Yeah.

00:42:41.720 It's going to be fun.

00:42:42.640 And it's really amazing because going through the app,

00:42:46.820 I was paying really close attention to everything.

00:42:48.580 And it's a mobile app, right?

00:42:50.260 Are you screenshotting everything?

00:42:51.580 Yeah, no.

00:42:52.560 No?

00:42:53.060 No one of those?

00:42:53.900 Dude, there was a period where if you looked at my screenshots

00:42:56.220 folder on my computer, it was like literally.

00:42:58.180 On my computer, I do it all the time.

00:42:59.480 Yeah, just like this sequence of tools I use and interfaces

00:43:03.400 that was working.

00:43:04.020 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:43:04.640 I mean, I do it all the time on my desktop.

00:43:07.380 But yeah, so I was going through it.

00:43:09.120 And it's great.

00:43:10.820 They've gamified the process.

00:43:12.320 They only introduced.

00:43:12.820 What made you choose their product,

00:43:14.360 even from the top of the funnel?

00:43:15.680 There was a lot of really good marketing.

00:43:17.540 OK, so they did a lot of really good.

00:43:19.920 Do you think you got tagged, remarketed to?

00:43:21.740 Oh, yeah, 100%.

00:43:22.940 Really?

00:43:23.440 So you might have done some search in.

00:43:25.340 Yeah, I think I went to their website or something,

00:43:27.580 and I'm sure they're focusing on.

00:43:30.660 I'm sure they're targeting dads that work at home

00:43:33.280 on the computer.

00:43:35.460 Yeah, one of your ads are like, are you a dad that

00:43:38.680 works at home on a computer?

00:43:41.120 It's like.

00:43:42.180 Wait a second, is your name Aaron?

00:43:43.440 Facebook has all that.

00:43:44.160 What the?

00:43:44.660 Yeah.

00:43:45.320 Yeah.

00:43:46.020 No, they had some really good marketing.

00:43:47.400 I think they really understood their customer.

00:43:49.700 You know, some of the messaging was like, finally,

00:43:51.380 a weight loss program that works.

00:43:52.980 I don't know if that's like a cliche.

00:43:54.600 That sounds pretty generic.

00:43:55.760 But it was something similar to something

00:43:59.720 tried everything else and nothing works.

00:44:02.120 Try new and free.

00:44:03.320 You know, it's the new weight loss.

00:44:05.700 New vehicle.

00:44:06.360 Yeah, it's a new vehicle, exactly.

00:44:09.140 It was a new vehicle that I'd never seen before,

00:44:10.940 because I've seen all these like beach body diets.

00:44:12.560 What makes it different?

00:44:15.320 Their hook is it's a mindset thing.

00:44:20.720 That's good.

00:44:21.260 It's a mindset thing.

00:44:22.280 You can eat whatever you want, just limit quantity.

00:44:25.240 And there's a lot of limiting beliefs

00:44:27.120 that you have about negative emotions towards food

00:44:30.280 and positive emotions towards food.

00:44:32.420 Dude, I have a friend, Jose, she runs a program

00:44:34.600 called Your Way Weight Loss, Y-W-W-L.

00:44:38.360 And my dad lost 60 pounds.

00:44:40.660 My mother, stepmother lost like 50 pounds.

00:44:43.780 And like, oh, and then a bunch of other people.

00:44:45.940 And I'm like, what is she doing?

00:44:47.740 And they're like, mindset.

00:44:50.260 Yeah.

00:44:50.960 Like, they go, every week there's accountability.

00:44:53.520 So we have to log in.

00:44:55.300 This is in my hometown.

00:44:56.160 They physically go, stand on the thing.

00:44:58.400 And then they do like a mini motivational talk.

00:45:00.820 It's so, so like low production.

00:45:02.620 They just live stream it on the Facebook group.

00:45:05.340 And it's the Jose doing it, all about mindset.

00:45:08.460 And that's it, man.

00:45:09.300 Yeah.

00:45:10.300 No prescription.

00:45:11.020 They're like, whatever you want to do.

00:45:12.340 If you want to walk, you want to work out,

00:45:13.600 you want to cross it, whatever you want to do.

00:45:14.980 We're not here to judge you.

00:45:16.280 It's your thinking around nutrition and health.

00:45:20.420 Yeah.

00:45:21.320 And every day, they introduce a new topic to you.

00:45:25.440 So they don't introduce it all at once.

00:45:26.780 You can't skip ahead.

00:45:28.280 Every day?

00:45:28.980 Every day.

00:45:30.060 So the content and the copy is written in a way

00:45:32.280 that you want to consume it?

00:45:33.360 Yeah.

00:45:34.620 It's a little bit, it's a little too.

00:45:37.300 Generic?

00:45:37.940 No, it's a little too quirky for me, or like, I don't know.

00:45:44.120 Cutesy?

00:45:44.780 Yeah, cutesy, I think.

00:45:46.280 But it has personality.

00:45:47.440 They're trying to be different, and I'm

00:45:49.160 grateful for somebody to finally have some personality

00:45:52.160 because everything else is so bland.

00:45:55.580 And then they set you up with a coach.

00:45:57.620 No way.

00:45:58.880 A coach that texts you and says, hey, we

00:46:01.060 noticed you haven't logged in your meals.

00:46:02.880 Is it Rahul?

00:46:03.980 It's just killing me, Patrick's just double.

00:46:07.920 Rahul, how do you do it?

00:46:10.060 How are you doing this?

00:46:10.680 Just signs off, Rahul.

00:46:12.360 So good.

00:46:14.680 But I mean, sometimes it can be that simple.

00:46:17.360 Those are the things.

00:46:18.120 It's not about points or doing some keto thing or whatever.

00:46:21.560 It's just like mindset, accountability,

00:46:24.680 and then an app to track it all.

00:46:26.640 And then what was specific about their onboarding

00:46:28.680 that you really liked?

00:46:29.700 There's a few things.

00:46:31.360 One is that they tried to deliver quick wins.

00:46:38.420 It's hard to deliver quick wins with weight loss.

00:46:40.680 What, drink more water?

00:46:42.480 No, it was more like they actually

00:46:48.940 ask you to go through and take, what is your why?

00:46:51.860 Like, why do you want to lose weight?

00:46:53.580 And you press next, and it said, well, why do you want that?

00:46:55.920 And you type it in, and then you press next.

00:46:57.340 It goes, well, why do you want that?

00:46:58.700 Like, it actually walked you through this process

00:47:01.220 that I'd never had, it just made it so easy for me

00:47:05.700 to kind of like understand what they were saying

00:47:08.940 by making it engaging and also doing one action at a time.

00:47:12.880 There's so many other ways they could have done it.

00:47:14.100 They just said, take a notebook and write down your why,

00:47:16.780 do it in the next step.

00:47:17.600 But they actually like physically kept digging.

00:47:20.520 I remember, wow, this is really cool.

00:47:22.640 And then they say, every time you click next,

00:47:26.100 you say, is this your final why?

00:47:28.020 Do you emotionally resonate with this?

00:47:29.220 If not, click Next, and then you keep going.

00:47:31.460 So not even just five whys.

00:47:32.220 It could be three whys or seven whys.

00:47:33.680 Yeah, it could be three or 10.

00:47:35.580 And then finally said, that's great.

00:47:37.140 You're new, your motivation is.

00:47:39.540 And then it wrote it down and said, that's awesome.

00:47:41.580 Good for you.

00:47:42.400 Time to keep moving.

00:47:43.400 So there's just things like that where

00:47:46.980 the amount of brain power that I had

00:47:48.700 to use to figure out what to do next was so minimal.

00:47:51.840 Like all I knew is I had to answer the questions.

00:47:55.020 And yeah, I had to think about my why.

00:47:57.080 And they pre-framed it.

00:47:59.320 Yeah, you want that.

00:48:00.320 Yeah.

00:48:00.940 They said, we know this is going to be hard.

00:48:02.380 It's not like a configuration screen,

00:48:03.800 and you're like, you need this for this to work.

00:48:05.760 Yeah, exactly.

00:48:06.620 And it explained your why is the reason

00:48:08.820 that you're going to lose weight,

00:48:09.660 so you have to spend time with it.

00:48:10.700 You know, they explained, they pre-framed it.

00:48:12.540 I understand the importance.

00:48:13.700 I know the benefit.

00:48:14.580 So now I'm going to spend the extra time

00:48:15.960 to figure out my why.

00:48:16.780 And it's like all scattered throughout the onboarding.

00:48:20.440 And then every day that you finish,

00:48:22.120 there's a little check mark.

00:48:23.320 If you don't finish today, it's an outline of a check.

00:48:25.420 And dude, that drives you crazy with the outline of a check.

00:48:28.120 Oh, man.

00:48:28.620 It's like an L. You don't want an L.

00:48:30.040 Yeah.

00:48:30.580 Yeah.

00:48:32.140 Aaron, I could talk to you all day, because I usually do.

00:48:35.560 Looking back over the last few years building SGH

00:48:40.000 and just being successful as an entrepreneur,

00:48:42.640 who have you had to become to be the person leading

00:48:45.660 this tribe and the movement?

00:48:48.040 What are some of the mindset beliefs?

00:48:50.920 Um, you know, one thing that I had to, uh, to really figure out is how to not be emotionally

00:49:00.140 attached to results of things. So I would get, um, I would, you know, I used to hate when people

00:49:08.980 leave the group, you know, be like, Oh no, that's like gonna, that's a reflection on me,

00:49:13.280 you know, as a person and my value. The free public Facebook group. Yeah. Um, people would

00:49:18.280 actually physically leave the group or um how do you know that is there a screen you can see it

00:49:24.040 you can see many people leave the group yeah give you their physical address and their phone number

00:49:29.360 and their gps so you can go find out why um f you rahul sorry had to so um so i would i would be i

00:49:39.780 would take all of these like results of things that i put out something and if the result was

00:49:45.100 a negative, I am now a negative person.

00:49:47.860 I mean, it reflects negatively on me.

00:49:49.700 My value is now decreased because I got a result

00:49:53.600 that I didn't want.

00:49:54.600 If it's a positive result, I have now more value

00:49:57.800 because I have brought value into the world

00:50:00.160 and I need this reassuring.

00:50:01.300 It's kind of an addiction to.

00:50:05.400 But you tie your identity.

00:50:06.900 You tie your identity to the results, yeah.

00:50:09.000 And so being able to say, I did this and it didn't work is OK.

00:50:13.240 It doesn't reflect on my values as a person.

00:50:15.160 It doesn't reflect on my inherent worth.

00:50:17.640 And that's OK.

00:50:18.380 It's not bad or good.

00:50:19.500 It just is.

00:50:20.200 And I'm going to make the change and can keep going because I'm not emotionally attached

00:50:24.460 to that specific result.

00:50:25.980 And so for me, that's been a huge change.

00:50:29.460 I get, and you see, there's a lot of negativity in the group.

00:50:32.240 People comment on my posts all the time, say, that's a terrible idea.

00:50:34.900 Why would you say this?

00:50:36.240 Why would you even, why would you even, and I firmly believe that's a good idea.

00:50:40.080 And I'm not emotionally attached to it.

00:50:42.840 I just say, well, that's fine.

00:50:44.580 It's your opinion.

00:50:45.580 Yeah, it's your opinion, and that's totally cool.

00:50:48.080 And so that's been a huge thing for me.

00:50:50.080 I don't really consider myself to be a really good leader.

00:50:53.080 What I do consider myself to be is really good at making

00:50:57.080 people feel important.

00:50:59.080 And so that's what I contribute.

00:51:01.080 A lot of my success to the group is when people joined,

00:51:04.080 I would reach out to him, like Rahul.

00:51:06.580 I would reach out to everybody individually,

00:51:08.080 everybody individually and i would say um thank you for joining the group this is aaron the founder

00:51:13.440 of the group can you please did you really manually do that at first yeah yeah i manually would i would

00:51:19.140 i would welcome everyone to the group through facebook and then i would say um can you please

00:51:23.780 introduce yourself in the group and talk about yourself tell me tell tell everyone what what it

00:51:28.020 is and what you do right um and i mean it's there's the the you know the the world of facebook

00:51:35.700 is that, man, if the Facebook group founder reaches out

00:51:37.940 to you, it's like a celebrity, you know?

00:51:40.920 It's true, you're the creator of this thing

00:51:42.960 that they spend time in every day.

00:51:44.160 Again, it's framing.

00:51:45.720 And people would go in, and they'd introduce themselves.

00:51:48.540 And then I'd start conversations.

00:51:50.020 And then so, yeah, but back to your question,

00:51:52.900 I think emotionally detaching myself from results

00:51:57.280 is a really big thing.

00:51:58.920 And also being patient with myself.

00:52:00.820 I'd like to be a lot further along than I am now.

00:52:04.280 I'd like to be 10 years further right now where I'm at.

00:52:07.940 And just being able to say, one of my favorite phrases

00:52:11.060 is, I'm doing the best that I can with what I have

00:52:13.880 and what I know now.

00:52:15.500 There's nothing more that someone should expect from you

00:52:19.840 considering what you know now and what you have.

00:52:24.040 And so being hard on yourself and saying, well, what an idiot.

00:52:27.380 I wish I did that.

00:52:28.120 Well, you did the best that you could

00:52:29.360 with what you had at the time.

00:52:30.360 Yeah, the comparing, I think, is killing and crushing people.

00:52:33.620 It's like, don't compare your chapter one to somebody else's

00:52:35.700 chapter 10.

00:52:37.860 How do people get a hold of you, Aaron?

00:52:39.240 Where do you obviously go check out?

00:52:40.440 Do my Facebook group.

00:52:41.280 Yeah, I go to SAS Growth Hacks.

00:52:42.580 It's a Facebook group.

00:52:43.800 Somebody wants to work with you?

00:52:45.060 Yeah.

00:52:45.560 Where should they go?

00:52:46.460 You go to aaronkral.io, A-A-R-O-N-K-R-A-L-L.io.

00:52:51.080 But if you go to the group and you just put in, yes,

00:52:53.480 I need help in one of the questions,

00:52:54.600 I'll reach out to you right away.

00:52:55.740 That's awesome.

00:52:56.940 Aaron, you put out so much.

00:52:59.200 And not only put out produce, content, teach, but curate.

00:53:03.580 such an incredible group of founders

00:53:05.460 that for a long time in the SaaS space,

00:53:07.420 it really wasn't a place.

00:53:09.040 And other people have tried, but I always

00:53:11.080 felt like they were doing it for their own purposes.

00:53:14.200 And even though, yes, there's a commercial aspect to it,

00:53:16.600 you've really kind of been bent more towards the value add

00:53:20.780 to the community.

00:53:21.660 And I just have always appreciated and been inspired by that.

00:53:25.500 So I just want to thank you for that, man.

00:53:26.620 Thanks, Dan.

00:53:27.120 Appreciate it.

00:53:27.620 Dude, appreciate you coming on.

00:53:29.520 Thanks for watching this episode of Escape Velocity.

00:53:32.640 Be sure to like and subscribe and leave a comment with your biggest insight from our conversation.

00:53:38.140 Be sure to check out the next episode.

Dan Martell - December 03, 2020

Perfecting Onboarding & Activation with Aaron Krall @ SaaS Growth Hacks - Escape Velocity Show #42

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