Dan Martell - Public Speaking Millionaire ｜ Phil M. Jones Interview

00:00:00.000 I had seven, eight, nine revenue streams within a personal brand business in about 15, 16 months.

00:00:05.100 Wow. And when it comes to building a personal brand, here's what I think is remarkably important.

00:00:10.500 One is visibility. You've got to be seen to doing the thing you want to be seen to be doing.

00:00:13.880 So everything you can be doing should be growing visibility.

00:00:16.060 That's a big idea people need to hear.

00:00:17.840 You should always be working on your future bio. If you haven't updated your bio every six months,

00:00:22.300 you're probably doing something wrong. And my goal on a bio point of view is to keep evolving

00:00:27.340 and working on my future bio

00:00:28.840 until you get to a one-word bio.

00:00:31.000 What's a one-word bio?

00:00:32.200 It's introducing Eminem.

00:00:34.500 No further explanation required.

00:00:36.480 Share, Oprah, Gaga.

00:00:39.400 No further explanation required.

00:00:41.080 That's a good North Star.

00:00:42.260 It's like, keep adding until Elon.

00:00:45.180 This is crazy.

00:00:46.380 I hope everybody that's an author,

00:00:48.360 a speaker right now is going like,

00:00:50.460 I've got to level up my game.

00:00:55.920 Phil Jones, man.

00:00:56.940 appreciate you being on the show love being here thanks dan um so we're in your beautiful exactly

00:01:02.140 what to say hq literally overlooking the i mean this is incredible thanks friend it's inspiring

00:01:09.980 it's inspiring um we're gonna dive into the amount of books that you have on your books

00:01:16.700 and i mean it was crazy like you pull us out you're like yeah these are just a few of them

00:01:20.860 yeah we have others and the brands i really want to i want to unpack for everybody because i've

00:01:25.100 I've been fascinated.

00:01:25.980 We've been kind of social friends from afar.

00:01:28.880 The business of information, what I call the wisdom economy.

00:01:35.060 But you're obviously an incredible author,

00:01:38.740 but you've been speaking for, I think I went online.

00:01:41.120 I literally binge watched a ton of your stuff.

00:01:43.880 I heard like 2 million people you've spoken to over the years,

00:01:47.480 2,500, probably more now, almost 3,000 talks you've given.

00:01:51.500 Somewhere like that.

00:01:52.380 And you were really quick to jump on the virtual stuff when COVID happened.

00:01:56.020 Like you didn't even, there was no beats, miss, zero.

00:01:59.120 I saw your YouTube video go up and it's like, now we're going virtual.

00:02:02.820 How long did you do speaking before you wrote the book?

00:02:06.260 Oh man, I guess I've been speaking one way or another since my first proper careers.

00:02:13.560 At 18 years of age, I was one of the youngest sales managers for a big department store group.

00:02:17.200 And in my role with that group is we would do a lot of store openings,

00:02:21.140 which meant showing up to a city and delivering presentations to people in that community to give

00:02:26.840 them an idea that they might want to come and work with us got it so i was telling the brand story

00:02:31.380 and looking to get a recruit and i think what age were you speaking 18 19 20 and then equally was

00:02:38.100 in the sales leadership role in those stores so my early speeches were top of a set of an escalators

00:02:42.860 in a department store addressing the morning huddle um so i've been in those environments

00:02:47.980 forever being training teams forever but my formal okay i'm a speaker in a personal brand capacity

00:02:54.580 started around 2008 okay moved out corporate roles moved out of um running an overseas

00:03:00.640 investment property business bought that business down and it kind of started by accident in the

00:03:06.260 the company that we'd built had a good time for a good time until 08 i'd built a lot of it through

00:03:13.380 B&I, Chamber of Commerce, networking events to be able to find clients and referral partners for it.

00:03:19.000 When we brought that down, I was well known in that space. But all of the small independent

00:03:22.280 business owners were struggling in that recessionary time in the UK. So they were asking me,

00:03:27.400 like, hey, Phil, would you come and do a 30 minute, 60 minute presentation around some ideas that they

00:03:32.240 could do to take success into their own hands, find some new clients, grow their book of business,

00:03:36.520 deal with a declining customer base? I'm like, sure, sounds fun. Well, I figure out what I want

00:03:40.320 to do next yeah started their 08 and then it's built out from there accidentally and those early

00:03:46.520 speeches came to people saying well can you do more could you train my team what would it look

00:03:51.380 like if you did a one day and i remember people saying like well if you did a one day what will

00:03:55.440 it cover and they're like well well i was like well what would you hope it covers they're like

00:03:59.400 i hope it'll cover blank and you'd be like well it covers that then it's like here's a paper

00:04:04.360 whatever whatever you want it to cover the first one day sales training workshop was built on

00:04:09.260 people asking will it cover blank me just writing it down the night before the program i just looked

00:04:14.700 at all of the things that people had said and built the program from there we delivered that

00:04:18.420 one day program every week um for about 17 months holy moly so you had some reps yeah and put

00:04:26.540 refinement behind everyone built a coaching business behind that built a consulting business

00:04:30.780 behind your businesses or for them mine okay cool um so it automatically sort of grew out to be

00:04:37.720 i had seven eight nine revenue streams within a personal brand business in about 15 16 months and

00:04:43.360 no no book yet no book yet wow first book i wrote 2011 was a book called toolbox i've since gone on

00:04:49.040 to retire that book and i wrote it with the purpose of you need a book we've been in the

00:04:55.100 world long enough to hear that you need a book you need a book you need a book story i did this

00:04:59.340 in 2011 self-published first book where you put as much as you possibly can about as much as you

00:05:04.920 possibly know between a couple of sheets of paper.

00:05:06.680 I'm only going to write one book.

00:05:08.040 I've got to get it all in there.

00:05:09.180 So we crammed that out there.

00:05:10.140 And it did fine.

00:05:10.800 And it helped support the international piece.

00:05:12.840 What was the context of that one?

00:05:14.420 It was 247 different ways you could win more business.

00:05:18.400 So you could come back more often.

00:05:20.340 It was a compilation of sales, ideas, tips, tricks,

00:05:24.940 business development strategies.

00:05:26.500 I called it Toolbox.

00:05:27.540 The idea was that it would be something

00:05:29.840 you could reach into if you wanted to.

00:05:31.260 Pull out what you need, Toolbox.

00:05:32.260 It was a cute idea.

00:05:33.800 We did okay, but it delivered on its promise to sit in the line item of a bio that was published author of.

00:05:40.720 My international speaking career was catapulted from that, not because people came looking for the book,

00:05:45.640 but when people asked about me, my credibility bio sat stronger.

00:05:50.900 It took me to speak in Iran, took me to speak through Asia, took me on a European tour.

00:05:57.140 And I say it took me.

00:05:58.520 It allowed me the passport that when I leaned into those environments, the credibility was in place.

00:06:03.800 And then the second book was a book called Magic Words.

00:06:06.880 Magic Words is almost the EP to Exactly What to Say.

00:06:11.620 I was in a mastermind group maybe 2012 with some other author, coaches, consultants in the UK talking about how challenging it was to create a book.

00:06:21.520 Do you know Shah Wasman?

00:06:22.980 I do.

00:06:23.600 Okay, cool.

00:06:24.180 She's my UK friend.

00:06:25.380 There you go.

00:06:26.080 Yeah.

00:06:27.580 And what happened from that was they said it was so hard to write a book, I said I could probably turn one around in a month.

00:06:32.320 and that was magic words in fact look this is it look at that this is a book yeah i want to see

00:06:37.500 look at this it's like a pamphlet it's a literal pamphlet look at the photo on it it's a beauty

00:06:43.280 and what was fun about that though is this is great you are now an author yeah i mean we're

00:06:48.960 talking 20 dude it's 23 20 pages it's nothing it was a joke it was me responding to the bet

00:06:56.100 and what i did is i plugged it into amazon's kdp download program when amazon's kdp download

00:07:01.400 program had just launched we woke up one morning to 120 000 units on a free promo oh that makes

00:07:08.040 sense yeah and then what happened was this became a giveaway it became lead capture it became a

00:07:13.680 thing that i could customize and change colors for for a client we could do 12 copies 30 copies it

00:07:18.560 was just for fun it was the the takeaway we plugged it into cd content and used it when i spoke at

00:07:25.220 events for lead capture and it it became a part of my brand from a magic words point of view

00:07:30.620 And every time I spoke or delivered a workshop, people would say to me, like weeks, months, years afterwards, still using your magic words, still using your magic words.

00:07:40.340 So that was the success leaving clues thing.

00:07:44.340 Exactly what to say came about a little later where I was going through my geographic move from UK to US and made a decision.

00:07:52.280 I didn't want a global speaking business anymore.

00:07:54.360 I wanted a North American speaking business.

00:07:56.000 I wanted to really sort of focus effort and energy into building a business in one of the richest markets in the world in the speaking profession.

00:08:03.540 Thought I've got to write a new book.

00:08:05.860 Had all these ideas about a new book I might write to put myself on the map with the bureaus, et cetera. 1.00

00:08:10.680 And then thought, you idiot. 0.98

00:08:12.000 Why do I write a brand new book when what I've got is a half-baked EP over here that the marketplace is already telling me it quite likes? 1.00

00:08:19.880 It's validated.

00:08:20.440 Why don't I come back and do that properly?

00:08:22.720 And I was going to relaunch it called Magic Words.

00:08:26.000 I get two-thirds of the way through the process, and just like you've been on a title story, I'm like, it's actually not that good of a title.

00:08:33.680 And worse than that, I just found out a guy called Tim David had just published a book called Magic Words, and he was a real magician.

00:08:41.060 So I'm like, I probably shouldn't use that title.

00:08:43.480 I wonder, what do I title it?

00:08:44.500 What do I title it?

00:08:45.440 And I thought about the question that people had always asked me following training sessions.

00:08:50.160 And they said, well, yeah, but what exactly do I say?

00:08:53.500 That's where the title came from.

00:08:54.880 it also been road tested and it's kind of fun to see it here it's a three cd set that we sold to

00:08:59.660 the direct sales industry prior to the book coming out prior towards the book just to test the title

00:09:04.220 no it was just something we did when i released another product back in the day oh you already

00:09:08.680 had it yeah existed cool and and it's interesting because like even pulling the title of a book from

00:09:14.360 the book content yeah waiting to title it once you see what's in there that's right more often

00:09:19.980 than not like from a book point of view i think there are there are two types of books that people

00:09:24.040 can create there is a a big idea book and there is a proven method book the two very different

00:09:30.600 things and what would be examples just for people like a big idea book is seth godin's purple cat

00:09:36.760 yeah malcolm gladwell stuff malcolm gladwell big idea it's like okay i think this thing and the

00:09:42.200 market's going to tell me if what i think is a good idea or not yeah and more often than not if

00:09:46.440 you're doing a book like that you probably want to do it with other people's money

00:09:49.320 you want to launch a big idea let the marketplace decide and maybe sign a big advance get a support

00:09:56.080 of a big publishing partner if it's a proven method book i.e something you've been working

00:10:01.580 sharpening shapening totally something that you've owned a workshop time yeah then um that's like

00:10:06.900 your baby is like something that belongs to you like your child or a home that you've crafted

00:10:10.940 yeah and in that environment the success is already baked in because there's already been

00:10:16.240 an audience that has appreciated this and has validated through their purchasing and probably

00:10:21.740 a strong possibility that they've been trying to teach what they learned from you in the proven

00:10:26.900 method interactions prior badly so when the book shows up they're like this is what i've been trying

00:10:31.660 to explain to you and it becomes their way of creating a portable story around your work more

00:10:37.300 easily instead of them trying to explain what they learned from you in a two-day workshop badly over

00:10:43.420 a pint yeah it's like how about i just give you the book here's the book this was the whole thing

00:10:47.880 yeah i was trying to tell you this but there's more context read the whole thing that's right

00:10:51.440 so the the areas that i think you are masterful at and i was already impressed and then i came

00:10:58.800 to your office and you showed me levels upon levels of this is just how you've been able

00:11:03.440 to monetize because i know so many authors they can't even get their speaking figured out right

00:11:08.360 right let alone businesses consultant coaching all this stuff um what do you think let's let's

00:11:16.100 start with the speaking side of things because i know um and dude when there's a lot of speakers

00:11:21.300 out there your craft and mastery is like literally when i see you speak i can tell phil did not the

00:11:30.700 the economy of words the emotional uh prep like there's no doubt you are the best at what you do

00:11:37.180 because you can see it in,

00:11:40.180 and I appreciate just that I know that you do it

00:11:42.860 because I'm a professional.

00:11:44.840 Some people wing speaking, right?

00:11:46.480 And they're like, I'm just gonna talk

00:11:47.620 and see how it makes some people feel.

00:11:50.020 How did you build the speaking business?

00:11:52.440 Like, what have you learned about speaking bureaus

00:11:55.760 and corporate contracts?

00:11:57.920 Like, to actually get paid, you know,

00:12:00.500 tens of thousands of dollars to give a talk,

00:12:03.280 what do you think are the things people are missing

00:12:05.880 or they're just chasing the wrong thing to try to build that demand?

00:12:10.640 I think a mistake that many people make is they want to start in the middle of the race.

00:12:15.620 And what I mean by that is they think that because they've got an impressive resume

00:12:19.320 or because they've done a couple of things that make them notable public figures in some way,

00:12:24.680 they can enter the speaking business somewhere near the middle of the race

00:12:27.660 and the marketplace is going to appreciate that.

00:12:30.620 The myth that then gets compounded on that is that people think the role of a professional speaker

00:12:35.700 is a mirror shining back on them it's my audience or i'm there to be able to serve my message or i'm

00:12:42.780 there to be able to help people understand my story and what they forget is that if you've got

00:12:48.520 10 000 people in an audience and you're speaking for an hour that's not about your hour it's about

00:12:52.560 their 10 000 hours that you're responsible for and that company's needs correct from your message

00:12:57.920 correct from your understanding of the prep work the post work how that they can utilize your

00:13:04.160 delivery in that moment to be able to anchor thousands of other conversations that come after

00:13:08.680 that and to be able to attach maybe all the other corporate messaging that they wanted to be able to

00:13:13.180 get across in that given environment. Yeah, they might have a theme for that kickoff call or

00:13:16.620 whatever it is. And more than even a theme, it becomes the memory peg, right? Is how many times

00:13:21.860 have you been to an event in your personal life, you know, being out for a great meal and a great

00:13:26.760 time, et cetera. And what do you remember? It's, oh, when we had that amazing dessert all together

00:13:30.920 or when they serve that thing with that killer sauce

00:13:33.120 or when, oh, they did that like pre-cocktail thing.

00:13:37.320 And this micro piece is what you remember

00:13:39.300 the rest of the brilliant experience around.

00:13:41.000 A keynote speech can often be that.

00:13:43.220 How do you get to be able to do that?

00:13:44.700 Well, you have to care about more than just your message,

00:13:47.720 which means you have to serve the moment,

00:13:49.640 not deliver your message,

00:13:51.240 which means you have to understand

00:13:52.320 what's required by that moment.

00:13:54.400 And that means pre-work.

00:13:55.740 That means understanding with empathy

00:13:57.700 what the people in that audience are thinking.

00:13:59.240 that means the ability to hit the show me that you know me button it also means considering where

00:14:03.520 are you on the agenda are you opening closing middle and more than that like what's come before

00:14:09.020 you because it can be ridiculously irresponsible for you to show up and deliver your 60 minutes

00:14:13.420 without knowing what happened in the eight hours prior because what could happen is you could

00:14:17.920 conflict compound cause some form of chaos in message yeah not because you're wrong but because

00:14:24.400 somebody else delivered something earlier that was close to or was in some form of conflict or

00:14:31.140 contrast and your job is to be able to add that together not to be able to subtract or divide

00:14:36.100 yeah to align you know i was listening to what dan was saying earlier on and what dan shared about

00:14:40.860 blank blank blank is remarkably impressive and what you may want to consider also is

00:14:44.800 let's build on it and now what you do is you show the audience that you're a willing

00:14:49.940 participant in an event as well as just the sage on the stage talking at them correct everybody

00:14:56.340 needs a rewind and listen what you just said phil because like as you're talking and you're saying

00:15:00.440 the show me that you know me and the the pegging of them and i'm just like listen like i need to

00:15:05.100 take notes um because it just demonstrates that you're you're a student of your craft

00:15:09.460 and if you want to get paid to speak over a sustained period of time what's imperative is

00:15:15.160 that you are always better than your fee so that means that great you get paid $15,000 once what

00:15:22.000 you could risk is that somebody's like he she was pretty darn good but for that money I expected 1.00

00:15:27.040 more career is over you'd have been better to be a $5,000 speaker on that day and they're like wow

00:15:32.980 geez for $5,000 we paid this other guy 15 or 25 and she was like maybe just as good if not better 0.65

00:15:39.100 and now reputations are built on that that means that you probably want to be a brilliant free

00:15:44.540 speaker, a brilliant $500 speaker, a brilliant $1,500 speaker, a brilliant $5,000 speaker,

00:15:50.000 a brilliant $7,500, $10,000, $12,500, $15,000, $20,000, $25,000, $35,000, $50,000, and now

00:15:55.400 you're playing with the house's money. But you've earned it. Yeah. And you've put that all in the

00:16:00.520 bank. And then what else you need to be responsible for if you want to win on the stage is you need

00:16:05.780 to be able to deal with anything that might go wrong. What do I mean by that? What are some of

00:16:10.640 these crazy ones we were talking about the uber relay i mean yeah all the travel stuff is is for

00:16:15.240 real you've got to be prepared to put yourself hell on it yeah hell on a travel schedule just

00:16:18.760 to show up at your speaking slot no excuses be a professional and also know that nobody cares

00:16:23.800 about anything how hard it was to get there or what else is going on in your life or the fact

00:16:28.000 that you've got a sniffle or that you're suffering from hay fever or you know the kids have got a

00:16:32.360 thing that they hurt their knee at school etc in that moment you're in character nobody else cares

00:16:37.060 so decide that but also when it comes to being ready ready ready and prepared you've got to deal

00:16:44.420 with you're booked for 90 minutes and on the day of they tell you we need you to run 75 and you

00:16:52.020 just say no problem and then 40 minutes before you're about to go on they're like hey how would

00:16:58.500 you feel about doing 60 yeah and then they're like you know what does 42 look like yeah and

00:17:04.820 And you've got to say no bother.

00:17:06.440 And you've got to do that without being able to say, I need to go readjust my slides and creating some form of panic around the event organizer.

00:17:12.640 And then when you find out when you'd step onto stage and there's 22 minutes on the clock, you've got to bring your best 22 and make no drama about the whole thing and realize that sometimes less of you was more value to them in that given environment.

00:17:27.860 Got to be able to do all of that.

00:17:29.340 You've got to feel confident and comfortable that if a fire alarm breaks out in the middle of the speech, you can deal with it.

00:17:34.300 If somebody has a cardiac episode in the middle of a speech, you can deal with it.

00:17:37.280 It all happens.

00:17:38.080 It all happens.

00:17:38.600 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:17:39.060 It's a lot of large numbers.

00:17:40.540 I'm not telling you about anything I haven't dealt with.

00:17:42.520 Yeah. 0.72

00:17:43.120 You know, crazy heckler, somebody that's there to cause trouble. 0.96

00:17:46.360 Somebody drank too much, yeah. 0.98

00:17:47.540 All of it.

00:17:48.040 All of it.

00:17:48.540 All of it.

00:17:49.020 And yeah, you've got to deal with the fact that the room is set for 1,800 and what you've got is 147 in the room.

00:17:55.000 Don't let that mess up your energy.

00:17:56.500 No, but it happens.

00:17:58.140 Yeah.

00:17:58.260 You know, the craziest thing we dealt with recently is I showed up to an event and the event production company, like, we've got a cool new idea.

00:18:07.120 We're going to run a unique way of us being able to deliver to this.

00:18:11.140 And what it was was three speakers on three parts of the same stage delivering to a different audience at the exact same time with everybody in the audience wearing, like, silent disco headphones.

00:18:21.480 so you're in a giant auditorium microphone but not amplified where you can hear the other two

00:18:27.760 speakers delivering to the side of you and you don't know if the audience you're looking at is

00:18:32.020 listening to you or either the other two it wasn't even they get to choose come on choose your own

00:18:38.280 adventure right you gotta be able to say i can deal with all that you and you just like bring

00:18:42.880 i'm gonna crush these guys yeah yeah and then also sometimes you do your job great and sometimes you

00:18:48.680 do a great job and I think both of those things need to show up right you're not you're not always

00:18:54.860 a superhero and part of that means you can't believe too much of your own hype if you want

00:19:01.220 to run in the speaking business for a long time because we're all pretty replaceable in the grand

00:19:06.360 scheme of things I could be booked for a gig and I could have done a great job but if I fell sick

00:19:10.120 or something bad happened to me and Dan Martell was tapped in with a completely different message

00:19:14.960 then there wouldn't probably have been any issue with the event like we could be subbed out somebody

00:19:21.320 else tagged in yeah there's nothing and there are lots and lots of different people that could

00:19:25.540 deliver to a good enough standard to be able to get away from that and that's been helpful for me

00:19:30.660 to be like you don't get too far ahead of yourself sunshine yeah you're there to do a good job you're

00:19:36.040 important but you know this is not life or death yeah this is intelligent entertainment show up

00:19:42.360 and do a great job and remember that you're not the main event your job is to be the hot sauce

00:19:46.940 on the side of the main event to make the main event more memorable i love that and then the

00:19:51.660 idea of like using the book to supplement an event or using an event to create momentum to

00:19:56.680 monetize after like the c i love the idea of like cds and like yeah you know to do lead collect right

00:20:01.740 like a lot of speakers you know i have a friend that i'm thinking of i mean he does 200 days a

00:20:06.080 year and but he doesn't understand the business of it so i'm not sure he's not collecting emails

00:20:10.020 but you seem to think about this on a level like what are what are some of the so obviously show

00:20:16.740 up be great do great you know to get more speaking stuff right but what about the other things around

00:20:23.300 like the email list the potentials to do workshops in that same city you know you said like your

00:20:28.600 corporate clients booking you for tours and then while you're doing that trying to fill up times

00:20:32.860 like what are other ways authors speakers should be thinking about building a business that's not

00:20:39.280 just the keynote um you say what should they be doing i don't know if i can answer what somebody

00:20:45.260 should be doing i can certainly answer what people could be doing yeah and the could be is plentiful

00:20:51.040 in our work with exactly what to say we talk about the fact the worst time to think about

00:20:54.760 the thing you're going to say is in the moment you're saying totally a pre-event planning call

00:20:58.700 is the call for you to be able to schedule the actions that might follow the keynote it's not

00:21:03.760 the call to prepare for the keynote it's also the call for you to realize what add-ons could be

00:21:08.440 introduced at that

00:21:10.560 given time. I'll share one question

00:21:12.420 right now that will put tens of thousands of dollars in your

00:21:14.500 pocket as a new author.

00:21:16.280 Do the pre-event planning call and as you're about to wrap

00:21:18.540 say just one more thing, what's your plan for books?

00:21:22.160 And if you

00:21:22.640 introduce it at that point in time

00:21:24.420 they're like, books? No plan for books.

00:21:26.260 What do most people do? And you're like, well, most people

00:21:28.440 look to put a book in the room for everybody in attendance.

00:21:30.640 They're like, we should probably do that.

00:21:33.080 We get 80-85% conversion

00:21:34.600 rates on books for all attendees on every

00:21:36.620 speaking gig. What's your plan for books? That's it. It changes the game onwards from there. And

00:21:42.300 even it opens up conversation like, oh, we don't have any budget for it. You don't?

00:21:47.880 Well, you know, not allocated for it at this point. Okay. So you're saying that you're open

00:21:52.780 for books to be in the room. You just don't know who's going to pay for them. They're like, yeah,

00:21:56.240 that's where we're at. And then you can explore potential for sponsors. You can explore opportunity

00:22:01.080 for, you know, cross-pollinated opportunities with other clients to be able to get book in

00:22:04.620 the room from there. You can create follow-ons from meeting greets and signings and all of that

00:22:11.540 jazz. The most important thing that then happens from the book point of view is photographs and

00:22:17.680 social shares, because that's where your next set of leads are going to come from, is how does that

00:22:24.200 run full circle? I'm a little unique in that we have a pretty big business, but I have nothing in

00:22:29.860 the middle of my business. So I have no online courses. There's nothing that somebody can buy

00:22:33.720 from me, you know, $1,200, $1,500, $3,000, nothing that falls into that.

00:22:38.300 It's like the bottom or the top.

00:22:39.320 Correct.

00:22:40.020 On purpose.

00:22:41.460 But what it allows me to be able to do is it allows me to be able to do a lot of big,

00:22:44.740 busier work inside of organizations.

00:22:47.360 So we have done custom online training.

00:22:49.480 Where does it sit?

00:22:50.260 Dude, the book, I mean, this is CDL driver recruiting.

00:22:52.840 So, I mean, you're doing corporate deals where you're doing custom versions of your

00:22:56.080 book for them.

00:22:58.180 And I mean, this.

00:22:59.360 But it doesn't bruise anything in the outside world.

00:23:00.780 No, there's zero.

00:23:01.820 Yeah.

00:23:02.000 It just lives in their world, and it's a big ticket, all rides on.

00:23:06.600 That reputation changes.

00:23:07.420 Makes them look great.

00:23:08.140 And then what happens in those corporations is people leave.

00:23:11.620 They go to other companies.

00:23:12.580 Remember that Phil guy?

00:23:13.360 We should get him.

00:23:13.960 Yeah.

00:23:14.720 Or, hey, you did business with us at this location.

00:23:17.520 I now work at eBay.

00:23:18.680 Any chance that you can come and do something similar for us there?

00:23:21.620 Just planting the seeds for the future stuff.

00:23:24.720 But I like just productizing everything so we can.

00:23:28.220 Clearly.

00:23:28.600 I mean, you've got coasters.

00:23:30.180 You've got your bourbon here.

00:23:32.400 You've got so much stuff.

00:23:34.280 We go big on the book with exactly what to say.

00:23:36.200 And now we're doing certification programs.

00:23:39.220 And we've taken the certification piece.

00:23:41.120 Is the certification a middle level potential?

00:23:44.520 Well, not really.

00:23:46.540 Because the certification cannot be achieved online.

00:23:50.560 Okay.

00:23:51.020 It has to be received in person.

00:23:52.380 It's a premium product.

00:23:53.460 It's a premium product.

00:23:54.900 They can do it here with me.

00:23:57.060 And we have personal certification.

00:23:58.920 we have team certification we have corporate certification all productized all packaged all

00:24:03.660 separate pdfs all separate hidden pages in the website yeah personal certification come here

00:24:08.220 spend 5 500 bucks beginning middle and end experience high five see you yeah corporate

00:24:13.020 certification i come to you i do the same thing all the expenses are yours single big ticket

00:24:16.900 what we then got is certified guides where people are then licensed to deliver and then train the

00:24:23.040 work they pay an annual fee from a licensing point of view yeah to maintain it but what they

00:24:27.460 then do is they need to have a workbook for it to be a certification program workbook is a profit

00:24:32.100 center yeah and don't you even have people that you'll allow them to put their name on your book

00:24:38.300 um our certified guides yeah i don't know if i have a copy you might have one it might be over

00:24:43.700 there yeah but what we've done is we've created ways to customize the book whether it's a corporate

00:24:48.360 customization whether it's a small independent brand that wants to use it as part of their

00:24:52.540 onboarding experience we do customization from as little as 100 units and right up to 10 000

00:24:59.200 plus units that we've done for brands like volkswagen etc um but our certified guides have

00:25:04.640 their own exactly what to say version that is we call it an industrial strength business card

00:25:09.300 so it brings their credibility forward is their positioning back of the book is all of their

00:25:15.020 testimonials their credibility pieces and what our guides often do is you know they'll have a

00:25:21.280 couple of hundred of their personal custom edition, use it to open doors, create new

00:25:26.060 opportunities, gifts to past clients. And then they'll have the sort of OG edition to be able

00:25:32.120 to plug into their events at a lower unit price. But we just built a business model that allows

00:25:37.620 people to now partner with exactly what to say. And the big difference between what we've done

00:25:41.800 with certified guides and what many others have done is all of our guides stand in front of the

00:25:46.680 brand, not behind it. So if you look at any of the other sort of big names, it's so-and-so's,

00:25:53.760 coaches, et cetera. Didn't want any mini fills. What we're looking at is, this is Trisha Browers.

00:26:00.860 She's an experienced professional trainer. She's done this, she's done that, she's done the other.

00:26:05.380 Clients include this, this, this, this, this. Oh, and she just so happens to be exactly what 0.94

00:26:09.080 to say certified. Sits lower down in the bio. And if people can't win their own clients and

00:26:15.440 don't have their own credibility they don't come into our world but our world is the thing that

00:26:18.900 ties them together so neat and and essentially what i've noticed what your stuff phil is most

00:26:25.700 people write a book yeah three years later they write another book for you know what i mean but

00:26:30.180 it seems like your approach is to campaign it well i'm like taking clues from the music industry

00:26:37.860 if you look at any band that has lasted 20 30 40 years they're not lasting 20 30 40 years on

00:26:45.080 writing new music. You got the greatest hits. Greatest hits on repeat, collabs, customizations,

00:26:51.520 reinventions, finding new audiences for the same thing. Jon Bon Jovi has to be just as excited

00:26:57.220 singing Living on a Prayer tomorrow as he was 30, 40 years ago. And guess what? If he delivers a rock

00:27:03.340 concert where people have paid to show up... They want to sing along. They want to sing along to

00:27:07.460 Living on a Prayer. They're not like, hey, show me your new stuff. Yeah, new stuff that I've never

00:27:10.540 heard right yeah they've been working on right with a little preamble as to why this is so

00:27:14.560 magical it's like no no give me the give me the stuff that i know and the world is so crowded and

00:27:20.600 i've seen so many examples of this of of you know other great thought leaders is simon sinek has done

00:27:26.660 an incredible body of work he's going to struggle to shake the fact he's the why guy yeah doesn't

00:27:32.360 matter what else they're done you know and mel robbins incredible body of work it's like let's

00:27:37.560 countdown from five shall we like and that's the strength of a great brand is like if you can be

00:27:42.960 so well known for a single word or a single thing etc why would you try and dilute the potency of

00:27:48.120 something that could help you grow a a massive long-standing yeah because there's so many other

00:27:54.100 people that have never heard that message and i know you did the real estate well you've done a

00:27:58.200 bunch of these that's right like how did so even unpacking that like how did you think of who to do

00:28:02.560 the collabs with in these different industries so there's two types of collabs right there's the

00:28:07.840 behind closed doors collab yeah which can be like do i like the people when are they prepared to pay

00:28:13.140 the fee because behind closed doors yeah i do what you need right this is what it can exist in the

00:28:18.160 background there's no external exposure yeah there isn't a week that goes by in my life where

00:28:22.840 somebody doesn't say hey you should do it exactly what to say for something you know something you

00:28:29.260 Exactly what to say for SaaS founders.

00:28:30.960 You could argue that there's a reason for everything.

00:28:33.900 How do you decide what you bring to open market?

00:28:35.980 Well, this is tougher.

00:28:37.840 Because most markets aren't narrow enough and deep enough to warrant doing a book.

00:28:44.820 They might be narrow enough and deep enough to do a course or to deliver a training program for

00:28:49.620 or to run a high-end masterclass for, et cetera.

00:28:52.520 But there aren't many markets that have got 100,000 units in them.

00:28:56.900 So you've got to think that one first.

00:28:58.700 Yeah.

00:28:58.800 There are some that will definitely have 100,000 plus units in them.

00:29:02.360 Markets like the dating world, markets like parenting, financial services, et cetera.

00:29:07.660 Real estate, yeah, the big industries.

00:29:09.440 What you then got to consider is message and messenger.

00:29:13.100 So do I want to have my name on the title of a book that is positioning myself as an expert towards marriage or parenting?

00:29:22.500 No, thank you.

00:29:23.060 No, thank you.

00:29:24.100 Do you think for your stuff, like commission-based sales professionals?

00:29:27.520 It can be, but we've got the OG edition that actually starts to lean towards that.

00:29:32.040 There's almost no need to create a customization unless there was a collab with it.

00:29:35.600 So say, for example, Salesforce decided that they wanted to be able to create something where 2 plus 2 could equal 5,

00:29:43.020 and we run that together, and we were pointing it at commission-based salespeople.

00:29:46.960 Now we're talking, because the partner creates the credibility.

00:29:51.800 And that's what we did with the real estate edition.

00:29:53.360 is real estate is magical

00:29:55.420 because there is incredibly high earnings potential,

00:29:59.100 low barrier to entry,

00:30:00.580 and a very big churn of people joining the industry.

00:30:04.280 So there's always people.

00:30:05.260 Always new people.

00:30:06.080 Plus, training and personal development

00:30:08.020 within that space is two things.

00:30:09.560 One, largely terrible.

00:30:11.460 Two, people are prepared to pay for it.

00:30:14.860 So what you've got is a little bit of a sweet spot

00:30:17.480 in the real estate space for producing a book

00:30:19.560 that says we can build an evergreen

00:30:21.360 perennial bestseller in that space.

00:30:23.360 for context is my real estate book across all platforms is sold around 75,000 units

00:30:30.500 which for a niche edition is phenomenal awesome for any non-fiction book 75,000 units would be

00:30:37.600 like ka-ching you hit wall street journal 11,000 units yeah so we're there with a real estate only

00:30:43.060 edition um sustained over time but it keeps running like i checked my stats before jumping

00:30:48.640 on this we've done 42 units of that book today yeah and we did more than that yesterday and about

00:30:54.120 the same the day before and about the same the day before and i he's kind of flat it's one of

00:30:57.920 the only growth curves in my business that i'm happy to see yeah sustained sitting do you like

00:31:03.080 did you sit down and think of the industries and approach people or you just waited for it to

00:31:07.300 organically happen knowing that there was potential there um it's all of that is i'm committed to the

00:31:14.500 growth of the exactly what to say brand forever okay so the brand is that's the thing so when it

00:31:19.740 comes to collabs it's people place opportunity bandwidth yeah all of those things coming together

00:31:25.900 and and the real estate version was brilliant to do with jimmy and chris because i'd keynoted for

00:31:31.940 their audience i'd done a second keynote for their audience was well liked by their existing customer

00:31:37.660 base what they could also do is facilitate the working groups that i needed to be able to create

00:31:42.780 the customization because i didn't want to do the customization through them and their expertise

00:31:46.440 i wanted to do it through their customer base for sure so we created all these um micro workshops

00:31:52.760 and think tanks that was getting me clear on the critical conversations that people in real estate

00:31:57.340 were facing if they were new agents six months in if they were a 30-year tenured agent if they

00:32:02.100 were running a big team if they were in a luxury market if they're in a volume market if they're

00:32:05.980 in a rental market like i built all these personas and said fill the room with at least one person

00:32:11.540 from each of that list, they managed to do that for me.

00:32:14.600 We also had a real clear win-win deal on a collaborative book.

00:32:19.760 They wanted the credibility and the expertise inside their brand

00:32:24.200 and the ability for this to be information that lived in the world of their customer base

00:32:29.060 and lead generation for their core business.

00:32:32.520 I wanted the book and the micro-niche and speaking and training opportunities 0.84

00:32:36.400 within the world of real estate.

00:32:37.420 so there was a clear divide that says this partnership can work effortlessly

00:32:41.620 because our wants didn't overlap

00:32:45.140 and there's no, I didn't want to be into reporting royalty reports

00:32:49.440 back to co-authors to be like here's your split

00:32:51.620 and when you're in the book space in your own IP

00:32:55.680 I got hundreds of reports coming at me

00:32:59.200 $9 from here, $37 from here

00:33:03.060 and $1,400 from there

00:33:04.700 Like, I'd have to employ somebody full time to pull it all together.

00:33:08.580 Yeah.

00:33:08.980 And it's like, no, thank you.

00:33:10.200 So clean.

00:33:11.300 And we did that with those guys in 2018, 2019.

00:33:15.340 Was there an upfront fee they paid, though, for you to get involved in that?

00:33:18.960 Or there was a bit of a trust that they would promote it on the back end?

00:33:22.300 There was a financial commitment to a body of work over a 12-month period of time that was inclusive of the book.

00:33:28.600 Got it.

00:33:28.920 So the book was a byproduct of that project.

00:33:30.940 it was a bigger project consulting agreement over 12 months as a retainer one of the scope of work

00:33:36.180 line items was within this timeline a book would exist under this guise that's cool yeah and then

00:33:42.260 what how have you like because you also talked about because you said you're an open books i'm

00:33:45.180 gonna ask but like you did you did a bunch of like hearing clinic talks and then you start a

00:33:50.020 marketing agency with some partners that you know you don't you said most of the employees definitely

00:33:54.400 you've never met them right so it's like what i love about you is that from the outside it's easy

00:33:59.740 to, you know, oh, Phil's a speaker and he does speaking.

00:34:03.100 But now that I've spent time with you,

00:34:04.680 it's like you've got this whole back end

00:34:06.640 kind of thinking of partnership.

00:34:08.800 Some people just don't know how to partner. 0.97

00:34:10.300 They just suck at it. 0.57

00:34:11.320 Their internal trauma, something's like, 1.00

00:34:12.760 they're just bad at it.

00:34:13.860 They think, but you seem to have figured out

00:34:15.920 a formula for doing this.

00:34:18.300 Is there a strategy to it or is it just whatever,

00:34:21.840 again, the opportunity?

00:34:22.860 I'm just curious if there's a pattern

00:34:23.980 people can extract from this.

00:34:25.820 The strategy for me around particularly partnership,

00:34:29.360 is to make sure I'm never too big

00:34:32.880 of an important part of that operation.

00:34:35.720 A mistake that I've made in Collapse

00:34:37.560 through the years

00:34:38.820 is I've done too good a job

00:34:41.020 and won too much share of attention

00:34:43.800 inside that organization.

00:34:45.560 That's where it becomes dangerous

00:34:47.020 is if the organization, group, community, et cetera,

00:34:52.200 is now favoring your involvement,

00:34:55.580 my proxy leadership,

00:34:56.920 than the leadership they're getting

00:34:58.000 from the core organization.

00:34:59.360 That's where it gets risky.

00:35:01.160 That's why I have no conflict of interest within the middle of my business

00:35:04.340 that could start to be able to say, come join my tribe,

00:35:07.360 come pay fee towards me, et cetera.

00:35:08.940 It's more, I'm in the business of helping other people's train sets run faster.

00:35:13.240 So my product set is built towards that.

00:35:15.600 How do we then do that from a collab point of view is,

00:35:18.860 my objective is to be hot sauce.

00:35:21.860 If you think about Tabasco as a brand of hot sauce,

00:35:25.520 how many tables around the world does that sit on?

00:35:27.580 how many people order that product on repeat phenomenal number of people yeah and nobody

00:35:34.140 knows it's there until they want it but it's not stealing the show no one's like i got to go to

00:35:39.500 that restaurant because it's got tabasco but there it is sitting on the side of a table everywhere

00:35:43.920 ordered on repeat ordered on repeat ordered on the repeat i can get to a position of scale i can

00:35:48.380 buy back a ton of time if what i'm doing is i'm making a little bit of money there a little bit

00:35:52.360 of money there a little bit of money there i can have hundreds of partnerships of where i'm play

00:35:55.980 a really important part i'm an essential ingredient that helps their business run faster

00:36:00.360 but i don't steal any of the limelight yeah or certainly not so much of it and that has been my

00:36:06.880 route to scale that is a little different than most because you know i don't have a podcast show

00:36:12.600 on purpose because you can just go on other people's podcasts well i get a lot more reach

00:36:17.460 by getting to meet dan's friends than than trying to be able to find somebody else to introduce to

00:36:21.860 mine all the time yeah and yeah my view is the same on that from speaking my view on the same

00:36:26.980 of that is is all other collabs and then how do you decide what is this like for fun stuff okay

00:36:33.400 and my best friend is in kentucky and he introduced me to bourbon we've done tons on the bourbon trail

00:36:39.420 together but do you bring this into your speaking stuff like do you do like how are fun ways it's

00:36:45.860 talk triggers it's a chance to be able to i'm a british guy right yeah and i love bourbon and

00:36:53.440 people think i know nothing about bourbon because i'm a british guy and and you guys are clearly

00:36:58.660 probably should be a scotch drinker yeah um it's kind of fun when i'm in parts of the country where

00:37:03.500 people are like oh you like bourbon that's cute and then what we can do is stack out some fairly

00:37:09.260 rich knowledge about it and then oh by the way i got a collab product i did with a small micro

00:37:12.860 distillery here in new york yeah it's a credibility piece and when it comes to building a personal

00:37:18.900 brand here's what i think is remarkably important important repeat one is visibility are you got to

00:37:25.960 be seen to doing the thing you want to be seen to be doing more of so everything you can be doing

00:37:29.660 should that's a big idea people need to hear you got to be seen doing a thing you want to be doing

00:37:34.140 more right like it sounds crazy but it's like get this is your like you said photo ops of after you

00:37:40.200 speak like you touched on the um on the virtual thing is i never had to tell somebody i can do

00:37:48.980 virtual events we just jumped straight to doing virtual events built photo evidence around it

00:37:53.520 did a showreel around the fact that virtual events i was the first person to ask my photographer to

00:37:59.020 take photographs of my screen delivering virtual events that then went onto our virtual page i think

00:38:03.980 we may have hired that guy to do our virtual event photos yes get caught doing the thing that

00:38:10.600 you want to be seen doing more of like and that whole that's so good visibility then jumps to

00:38:15.140 credibility credibility is is about putting your pegs in the board i touched today in this interview

00:38:21.200 that there was a point if i wanted to speak internationally i needed to be published author

00:38:25.020 of blank otherwise my bio doesn't add up by credibility i mean you should always be working

00:38:29.920 on your future bio. If you haven't updated your bio every six months, you're probably

00:38:34.400 doing something wrong. There needs to be something else that is adding into your credibility

00:38:38.080 piece. Otherwise, what you are is the guy that worked for IBM in 2014 that's still trying

00:38:44.520 to call that relevant today. It's not going to work. And my goal on a bio point of view

00:38:50.820 is to keep evolving and working on my future bio until you get to a one-word bio. What's

00:38:57.960 a one-word bio is introducing M&M, right?

00:39:02.240 No further explanation required.

00:39:03.960 Right, Cher, Oprah, Gaga, no further explanation required.

00:39:08.640 If you've got a one-word bio, you're probably good.

00:39:11.000 So you have some work to do until you get there.

00:39:12.960 But that's a good North Star.

00:39:14.220 It's like keep adding until Elon.

00:39:17.720 So your credibility is what pegs in the board

00:39:20.100 are you missing to be able to build out

00:39:21.900 the credibility statement that you're looking for.

00:39:23.720 and I put exactly what to say out into the world it did well New York City publisher tried to buy

00:39:31.500 the rights from me I didn't want to do so but I did sell them the rights to two alternative books

00:39:36.540 that allowed me to put more weight behind it so exactly how to sell and exactly where to start

00:39:40.380 live in the same family from a branding point of view but I've got a book that is deeper about

00:39:45.480 sales skills that means that if somebody says oh it's just a light flimsy book around exactly what

00:39:50.280 to say, well, there is a heavyweight book behind it called Exactly How to Sell. It's never going

00:39:54.760 to sell anywhere near as many, ironically, but it provides some weight and credibility behind it.

00:39:59.720 Exactly Where to Start is an entrepreneurial book that says I've got some knowledge and

00:40:03.160 experience about what it means to start big ideas and turn ideas into things. They're not intended

00:40:08.240 to be able to be runaway success stories. They're weight behind the tip of Exactly What to Say.

00:40:13.180 Support the brand. Commitment to say Exactly What to Say still matters is what are the pegs in the

00:40:18.020 board right i did a million copies of the book and when you do a million copies of a record you get

00:40:22.780 a gold disc but when you do a million copies of a book nothing happens so i created my own

00:40:27.860 commemorative editions allow us to be able to create a way of talking about it did i love your

00:40:32.580 analogy 10 000 units yeah i love your analogy to the the record label right like it just maps so

00:40:37.860 beautifully yeah and i just produced the sexiest version of the book we could and also answered

00:40:43.200 the questions yeah that people were like well what is the why behind the what and allowed this

00:40:48.460 to be that people who were fans of the work already could reintroduce themselves to the work

00:40:52.540 and have some of their big questions answered in another book and you know like take the cover off 0.93

00:40:57.280 the thing the damn thing's sexy inside like silk covered embossed i wish i had mine i did the same 0.61

00:41:02.160 thing look yeah most people don't know i signed every one of them embossed into the hardcover 0.98

00:41:06.800 so good you got to this is the this is the art part of the craft that people just you got to put

00:41:12.260 your personality into it that's it oh it's beautiful the rounded corners it's like I'm

00:41:16.500 doing all of that and then yeah and then we do the you know workbook editions and you read the

00:41:22.260 book cover to cover in 72 minutes I cannot get through this workbook in less than two days

00:41:26.360 so what we now have is is all these other things that keep extending the brand that pegs in the

00:41:32.580 board and there's a kids book version oh you got the kids book and then you know I I was in my

00:41:37.740 kids school I told him about this Herman our mutual friend he's like oh the kid books is

00:41:41.360 crashing yeah like wow and there's no money in it but there's fun in it and it keeps the

00:41:46.400 conversation alive and it says i care about fun yeah so you got visibility credibility then the

00:41:52.100 thing to think about is authenticity which means you've got to care about the thing you care about

00:41:55.940 even when you're not getting paid to care about it and think about that from a from a buyback

00:42:00.800 time point of view is when you bump into somebody in an airport that's struggling to be able to

00:42:05.840 fit everything in you can't be like i'm not on the clock right now i'm not going to give you

00:42:10.160 some of my trade secrets you've got to care about authenticity when you see things that are

00:42:14.900 happening in the press where your expertise should have an opinion about it it should have an opinion

00:42:19.260 about you think about this at such a deep level yes it's beautiful doesn't show up otherwise and

00:42:24.420 then only then and only then do you work on the fourth thing which is availability i.e like what's

00:42:28.720 in the shop and if you've built a fan base that's this big then you need something somebody can buy

00:42:33.940 from you for ten dollars and you need something somebody can buy from you for tens of thousands

00:42:38.140 of dollars and you got to think about that product suite yeah like your uh department store like

00:42:45.020 you've got something for everybody in that and i worked in premier league soccer for a while on the

00:42:49.160 commercial side of of retail and licensing merchandising yeah and we knew that right we

00:42:55.080 knew that somebody's got three pounds in pocket money to buy themselves a gift after the game

00:43:00.260 and we know that there are some corporations that are trying to offload 50 grand off the balance

00:43:04.380 sheet quickly to be able to get their tax back and to make sure they don't lose the money next

00:43:08.080 year and for some hospitality. We knew everything in between. So you've got to productize and

00:43:12.660 package something for the people that you know want to do business with you. So it's always

00:43:17.200 visibility, credibility, authenticity, availability. And I'd always be asking yourself the questions

00:43:22.660 is what can I do to grow my visibility? What's missing from my credibility? What can I be doing

00:43:28.140 to demonstrate authenticity? And now how do I do a better job working on the availability of

00:43:33.460 people being able to access my message and it's a lifelong body of work i don't know how you can

00:43:37.760 do that with 37 different messages yeah you have to pick one but i mean even in this book you got

00:43:43.360 evie jones who collabed with you on the children's stuff and like it is awesome to see the way you

00:43:50.740 partner with other people and one something i saw recently and you did it organically and i don't

00:43:55.600 know if you're involved in this but it was a marketing book there's a woman prove it yeah 1.00

00:43:59.560 prove it so like are you involved in that i heard that book okay well so this is the thing is that

00:44:04.580 you were so good at being like hey there's this book and it's one of the best marketing book and

00:44:08.220 i bought the book and i was all excited because it was it was a friend of yours but i was like

00:44:12.800 he's probably involved in it yep so like how even that idea so you can still be involved in new books

00:44:18.960 but they don't have to be written by you correct and that's a lesson that you take from the movie

00:44:23.040 business there becomes a point where you realize being the lead actor is not actually the best job

00:44:27.480 on set yeah right you want to be director producer probably producer so prove it and the work before

00:44:34.460 the work are two books that we produced and bought to market in collaboration with page two well what

00:44:39.920 i did is took editorial director producer role on it and in prove it i'm helping provide credibility

00:44:49.000 to mail from a small business point of view and then curating the the experience of the book by

00:44:54.960 almost being the narrator so I do the opening and the close of the chapters

00:44:59.880 and she does all the meat in the middle again when you say narrating you mean

00:45:03.540 the audio version the audiobook and in the physical book version really there's

00:45:07.320 some setup and punchlines that around by me and what it allows me to be able to

00:45:12.700 do is back into my agency business and then towards opportunities the question

00:45:18.000 marketing now is that's my take on content marketing produced by somebody

00:45:22.800 that has huge content marketing background

00:45:25.160 that is a show that we've produced now in book form

00:45:28.460 will prove it.

00:45:29.720 And it allows me to answer questions

00:45:31.480 when people are like,

00:45:32.280 hey, what should I be doing with my content marketing?

00:45:34.420 I'm like, you should probably be working

00:45:35.660 to prove you are what you say you are.

00:45:37.340 They're like, what do you mean?

00:45:38.140 I mean, I mean, I like this.

00:45:41.100 And it just so happened that an event of a past client

00:45:45.200 became an issue, what, 21 days ago?

00:45:49.340 and maybe less than maybe 14 days ago that was happening in 10 days time the speaker they had

00:45:57.600 hired have me having spoke for them last year had backed out with a health issue they asked

00:46:04.160 did I have any way of getting hold of them because he wasn't responding to calls

00:46:07.180 and my view was well firstly I'll find out what's going on with that guy get you an answer but

00:46:12.680 secondly I'll help you find a speaker in 10 days that can be able to deliver and whether you can

00:46:17.080 refund get fees back or whether this person will just show up and do a great job for you for another

00:46:20.620 like we'll get that done so your event doesn't get risked and who did i put into the event mel mel

00:46:26.440 went in she crushed it feedback was amazing audience of 1500 people just met a book of which

00:46:31.740 the royalties are mine what did i do in that book mel wanted this book to exist for her speaking

00:46:36.660 training consulting business new piece of credibility she gets all of that she can build

00:46:41.520 online courses off the back of it she can do anything she wants that way around book royalty 0.52

00:46:45.700 is mine i paid her an upfront fee to write the book you essentially publicly you became the

00:46:50.220 publisher correct i mean this is again back to music i mean this is g unit with m&m that's right

00:46:55.280 or 50 this is this is crazy all the clues are there though right yeah you're not i'm not really

00:47:00.080 inventing anything you're literally saying this pattern exists how do we execute it correct and

00:47:04.560 and and the greatest marketing minds to me from an inspirational point of view are people like

00:47:11.000 ed sheeran the musician and and i've had the joy of being able to watch his career from a you know

00:47:16.360 busker in the uk to what he's become today and two things he's done remarkably well one is data

00:47:24.640 collection and i was at a pub in birmingham i know 15 years ago the dude was singing when he was

00:47:32.920 nobody the lights went out in the pub power went out in the park collecting he pulled a table into

00:47:38.540 the middle of the event and still played his guitar and still collected data from everybody

00:47:42.480 in the room when he was nobody then went on probably did another three four shows on the

00:47:47.560 same night not only that though is look what he's done from collabs he's no right to be respected

00:47:54.780 by the rap world but he is has no right to be respected by the oh it's true the classical music

00:48:00.640 yeah he's got the largest line dancing song in history is ed sheeran got no right to be in any 0.98

00:48:06.640 of those marketplaces but he's done it through collabs by saying two plus two can equal five

00:48:10.700 this is crazy i hope everybody that's an author a speaker right now is going like i've got to

00:48:19.460 level up my game because literally like i actually because i've had friends in the speaking space

00:48:24.880 that when i looked at their world in their business i was like that doesn't look fun

00:48:28.900 you're on a plane 250 days a year you have no continuity you have no back end i was like i

00:48:35.460 don't want that but that's their version of it not yours i've also studied the the so-called like

00:48:42.000 hero gurus who are 20 30 40 years ahead of where we are in the race and albeit many many quote

00:48:49.440 unquote success stories are out there there isn't a single version of anybody else's success story

00:48:54.620 that i can look at and go i want all of that because pieces but they look like trains you

00:48:59.960 can't get off of yeah is what it ends up looking like and i'm like i'm not sure if i want to ride

00:49:04.840 that train till i'm 60 70 80 and i don't want my whole identity to be attached to that for the rest

00:49:10.980 of time so you have to build something bigger than yourself in order to be able to step away

00:49:17.120 from it and that's what we're trying to do right now with exactly what to say like who are people

00:49:20.960 that you see like i think of covey yeah right is there who else would you put in that that that

00:49:27.160 pool of people that have built things that have gone past just the individual well there's people

00:49:32.220 that have done it but

00:49:34.020 Maxwell would be an example

00:49:35.980 Tony Robbins would be an example

00:49:38.380 Robbins needs to be on stage

00:49:40.360 I know and they still need the name

00:49:42.200 over the door on everything and they're still going to touch everything

00:49:44.280 and the ego is still highly attached

00:49:45.500 I remember I met Richard Branson in Verbi

00:49:48.260 I spent a week with him and we're having dinner

00:49:50.380 and I said what's the most important thing in business

00:49:52.240 and he's got this super

00:49:54.160 like

00:49:54.660 kind of like not

00:49:58.140 I'm not saying he's not intelligent

00:50:00.100 because clearly is but it's almost it's interesting the way he replied he's just like it's the brand

00:50:04.880 right and i was like but what else and he's like no it's the brand and i was too young i was like

00:50:11.240 in my mid-30s i was just like i didn't get how he literally he's like it's the brand it's the

00:50:16.100 brand is the brand because and then you see what mr beast is doing now yeah like he'll be a hundred

00:50:19.760 billionaire like i i see it like with beast bars my kids are literally i want these anyways but

00:50:27.480 But it's the brand.

00:50:28.280 People have to be able to assign themselves to that brand.

00:50:32.700 Is that two plus two equals five?

00:50:34.120 But if you look at brands, this is where I was listening to a podcast this morning about, you know, Nike and LeBron.

00:50:41.280 It's like to do what you're saying is now I do collabs with people that assign themselves to the brand.

00:50:46.840 So if you own a word, you don't even have to be the face of the brand.

00:50:50.460 You partner with the face of the brand that supports the brand.

00:50:52.860 That's right.

00:50:53.380 And the more you do that, the more it has longevity.

00:50:55.800 Correct.

00:50:56.880 Beautiful.

00:50:57.280 Correct. And, you know, I see this being a long term race and my tombstone, if it reads like loving husband, proud father and author of exactly what to say, I'm good with that.

00:51:09.960 That's cool. Phil, I love it, man. I really appreciate you. Super inspiring.

00:51:14.820 And I know a lot of people that follow me, the speakers, the coaches, the authors, the experts, they're they're going to have some work to do now.

00:51:23.760 Where's the best place for people to go? I'm assuming your website.

00:51:26.260 to go find.

00:51:26.820 philmjones.com

00:51:27.540 exactly what to say.com

00:51:28.680 I want to go see

00:51:29.160 what your shop's got.

00:51:29.880 All those things

00:51:30.140 is yeah

00:51:30.880 if you can't find me

00:51:32.100 based on name recognition

00:51:33.200 alone then that's my problem.

00:51:34.320 Yeah yeah.

00:51:34.780 You actually have a lot

00:51:35.620 of Phil Jones online.

00:51:36.660 I know we need

00:51:37.160 the middle initial.

00:51:37.880 Why do you think

00:51:38.280 that's intentional too?

00:51:39.120 That's very important.

00:51:40.500 Yeah I went to

00:51:41.260 ChatGPT though

00:51:42.060 and it absolutely

00:51:42.980 knew who you were

00:51:43.580 so that was really fun.

00:51:44.940 You're winning

00:51:45.460 on the AI side.

00:51:46.420 Right.

00:51:46.780 Thanks a lot Phil.

00:51:47.440 Appreciate you man.

00:51:48.540 Cheers.

Dan Martell - April 10, 2023

Public Speaking Millionaire ｜ Phil M. Jones Interview

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