Dan Martell - Should You Hire a Management Consultant？ with Carrie Osman @ Cruxy

00:00:00.000 People talk about how in the U.S. you have to like stand up in class and kind of sell yourself

00:00:04.300 in like, you know, when you're like seven.

00:00:07.560 Admission sequence start. Three, two, one.

00:00:20.600 Carrie, thanks so much for coming on the show.

00:00:22.520 Thank you so much.

00:00:23.000 How's it going?

00:00:23.860 It's pretty awesome. Thanks for the invite.

00:00:26.080 I appreciate you coming on.

00:00:28.080 Let's start with Cruxy.

00:00:30.000 What do you guys, because I read on the website, pricing strategy, execution, ton of stuff.

00:00:35.940 How do you explain Cruxy to the world?

00:00:38.320 Probably quite badly.

00:00:39.320 I feel like it's something that when you meet people, they always explain their business

00:00:44.960 really badly.

00:00:45.960 And then you're like, oh God, that's me.

00:00:48.300 Not ideal.

00:00:49.300 But anyway, I will try.

00:00:50.800 So I was really frustrated at Mars Incorporated.

00:00:53.700 I hired loads of Bain and McKinsey bods to come in and crack kind of growth questions

00:00:57.580 we had.

00:00:58.580 I don't know Mars, but I knew, is it, what kind of consultancy was it?

00:01:01.940 So it wasn't, it was a consumer goods company.

00:01:04.540 So they own like 60 billion turnover.

00:01:07.020 Do you mean like Mars bars?

00:01:08.200 Like literally candy.

00:01:09.640 Oh, I saw like 175,000 associates.

00:01:12.660 And I thought it was like some kind of like consultancy, like a McKenzie or something or

00:01:17.700 an agency.

00:01:18.340 No, I mean, I might be a better consultant if I'd started it.

00:01:21.660 Well, that's why it made sense.

00:01:22.660 I was like, Oh, you left to go do your own thing.

00:01:24.500 But I think because I, what I did there was I ran, they're very good at like letting you

00:01:27.920 run a business, so I ran a P&L and in the end a huge P&L and multitude of teams, et cetera.

00:01:34.600 So it started about 50 million revenue someone put me in charge of, she's amazing.

00:01:40.260 It was one segment of a brand, yeah, so it was like actually canned pedigree, like would

00:01:44.600 you believe.

00:01:45.600 Okay, the dog food?

00:01:46.600 Yeah.

00:01:47.600 I was that girl.

00:01:48.600 Okay, but canned pedigree, meaning somebody else ran other parts of pedigree, but you

00:01:52.600 just dealt with the canned product?

00:01:53.600 Yeah.

00:01:54.600 Oh, wow.

00:01:55.600 So you have someone doing dry and someone doing treats.

00:01:56.600 I didn't know that you guys broke it up.

00:01:57.600 Yeah. I mean, if you want to feed your dog, you've got to talk to a lot of different people.

00:02:02.760 But yeah, so in essence, what I did there was ran a P&L, looked at how are we going to grow

00:02:06.620 the business over the next three to five years? What are the choices that we need to make for

00:02:10.120 markets, for pricing, for kind of products we need to launch? And I guess I always found it

00:02:16.300 quite frustrating that consultants would come in, ultimately tell the time, like using your own

00:02:20.860 watch. So they'd kind of go and do all these interviews and you kind of say like, yeah,

00:02:25.180 well you already know all of this and you've just consolidated it into a document and you know it's

00:02:29.500 very useful and there's some good marimekko charts in there but ultimately what are we going to now

00:02:33.740 do with this and i always found doing something with the 200 slides that sits in the drawer

00:02:39.100 is the hard thing about hard things right it's the challenge the challenge is not knowing what

00:02:43.020 you should do i think you know most of us know we should be more choiceful we should make more kind

00:02:48.460 of strategic decisions strategies they are sacrifice all these kind of almost instagram

00:02:53.180 like quotes that we have written all over our offices but the reality of kind of what are you

00:02:57.560 going to do to execute that i found frustrating first client we signed was then in payments

00:03:03.540 so random so i just quit uh first client we signed was in payments and i was interviewing

00:03:08.440 the board kind of like thinking and this is correct so you like when you left that was

00:03:12.340 yeah yeah so you bought a mac you know apparently consultants have max exactly it's like the only

00:03:19.300 I bought. Then I like sold my sports car, sold loads of shoes on eBay, moved into my parents'

00:03:24.580 spare room, like tiny little bed. I was like, Oh God, what has happened to my life? Um, but first

00:03:29.940 client we signed was in payments and they exited nine months later to Barclay card. And it was then

00:03:36.500 that I realized the world of tech and financial technology is intricate and fascinating. And

00:03:42.420 these people are obsessed with their technology, but haven't had the rigor of how do you commercially

00:03:49.300 scale. What are the choices you make? So everything we do is associated to top line growth. So

00:03:53.620 what are the pricing choices you need to make? What's the structure of your pricing? What's the

00:03:58.200 kind of way that you put that together and how does that drive value? What are the new markets,

00:04:02.220 new segments, and new verticals? Yeah. So everything that you kind of think,

00:04:07.020 everyone I think often has these things on a list of things that they're going to do

00:04:11.240 in six months time, but we all get busy. And therefore, I guess we're a kind of partner.

00:04:17.640 we say like challenging partner to really high growth tech companies, but I don't want us to

00:04:22.880 be seen as the evil consultants that come in and think they're better than everyone, because I think

00:04:27.440 that is a recipe for disaster. How do you, what's your approach to that interaction with a company

00:04:33.900 that makes it different from others that would make you feel that way? Big question.

00:04:40.160 um i mean you can say all the standard things that anyone else would say but i like i guess

00:04:48.940 gut feel it just comes down to emotional intelligence the first book i give everyone

00:04:52.980 when they join is um carnegie how to win friends and influence people it's like if you look down

00:04:59.240 on people and you think i'm a consultant i'm gonna i'm gonna come in and i know something

00:05:04.580 you know it's like hey you're never gonna know the business like they know it you're like just

00:05:08.600 moving that slightly closer there i try to jerry jerry's happy when i keep the audio good it's just

00:05:13.640 you know it's right there um and then yeah so i think you've got to befriend these people you've

00:05:19.080 got to get to know them you've got to know their fears and it might be that someone's hired a

00:05:23.160 consultant because they're literally worried that they want evidence for their boss but don't look

00:05:27.720 down on that like you know when you're in a big organization you do a lot of things for a lot of

00:05:31.960 reasons and we're really lucky because we work with people who you know they're aligned to our

00:05:36.440 ethos we just don't work with people who want a deloitte you know if you are thinking about

00:05:41.240 choosing mckinsey and we have won some pitches against them but you're probably not going to

00:05:46.440 choose a nimble hungry really punchy consultancy that's going to tell you the things you don't want

00:05:51.320 to hear because you're in some way maybe looking to pacify your board or something so yeah we try

00:05:56.120 to just become really good friends get under the skin really get to know the what is the real

00:06:01.720 problem here is it as they believe it to be or is there something else under the surface so i mean

00:06:07.960 i find it fascinating the the whole like pricing and strategy side how do you present because i

00:06:13.080 know a lot of people watching either have to have a board they report to or are on a team and they

00:06:17.560 got to sell something up to the ceo like what's the right way to communicate a strategy and get

00:06:24.440 buy-in like how does that work from your point of view i mean how do you tell people there's

00:06:29.080 something they don't want to hear. Because when you said that, I was like, shit, that's, I mean,

00:06:32.120 how is, how do you keep being a consultancy to the same client if, if they're not?

00:06:36.840 Well, we like a lot of Americans and I think they just, the British accent just softens,

00:06:40.200 you know, it's like, I can get away with a lot. It's like, you know, one wish of the hair, show

00:06:44.280 the gray streak. Look, I've got some years and then kind of a bit of British accent banter.

00:06:48.600 No, obviously not that. Um, but I think, what do I think?

00:06:52.360 think? I mean, everyone says clarity and you need to be really clear, but I also see lots

00:07:00.540 of strategy one pages and strategy houses and all these things that people have obviously

00:07:04.420 sat on a Sunday getting so close to that they think they're very clear. But actually, I

00:07:10.580 mean, we usually fall back on and it's very Simon Sinek, which I know is a bit two years

00:07:14.740 old, but you know, why are you actually doing this? What is the purpose of this? Then how

00:07:19.420 are you doing it? What are the choices you're making? And then what do you need to do?

00:07:22.300 So pricing, for example, where is the driver of value in the product?

00:07:26.180 Why does it matter?

00:07:27.540 What do people actually really buy into your product for?

00:07:30.540 How do you then restructure the pricing so that each of those pillars of value really

00:07:35.240 connects with the customer?

00:07:37.060 And then, okay, then you need to get into like, what is the price point?

00:07:40.160 What is the model?

00:07:41.160 Where do we anchor the pricing?

00:07:42.340 How do we compare to the competition?

00:07:44.020 But I think a lot of people still, if you just say to them, forget PowerPoint, just

00:07:49.920 draw on a bit of paper a diagram that shows what your strategy is they would never be able to do

00:07:55.060 that no it sounds too simplified that that is having a strategy and i still i still like love

00:08:02.020 just asking ceos that i sit with and it's usually over a glass of wine because i'm a bit of a wino

00:08:05.540 um and you know any any glass of mantra shake and get you through a gritty conversation

00:08:10.360 and i usually say to them you know but what are you not doing because i just think asking people

00:08:15.820 what they're doing you know they just tell you all the same things and they tie it together with

00:08:19.640 some generic strategy that they think you know we're gonna drive this market we're gonna defend

00:08:24.020 this market whereas as soon as you say okay markets where are you playing to win where are

00:08:28.400 you playing to participate and where are you not entering okay they'll answer that and it'll be

00:08:33.560 quite clear but then if you say okay talk to me about how your resource aligns against the fact

00:08:39.120 that 80 of your focus is on play to win like is 80 of your sales team's time spent there they're

00:08:44.720 I'm like, oh, no.

00:08:45.980 So the do not enter market, say we said do not enter Asia

00:08:48.740 or APAC at this point.

00:08:49.880 And they're like, yeah, but we're doing quite a few calls,

00:08:51.840 and we're just understanding the market.

00:08:54.060 And that's what I talk about, the void between strategy

00:08:56.280 and execution.

00:08:57.320 Looks good on a page, but then you sit down

00:08:59.600 and you interview people.

00:09:00.440 And they're like, oh, but we don't do that at all.

00:09:03.440 So they talk it up, but they're actually not following it.

00:09:05.840 Come on, you know that.

00:09:06.900 But how do you do, like when you're starting Cruxy,

00:09:09.900 how do you apply this stuff for like choosing?

00:09:14.160 Because, I mean, it can be a why, like, starting to work with these tech companies, you can

00:09:18.180 do a lot of things.

00:09:19.020 Obviously, you learned a lot at Mars.

00:09:20.800 How did you use that for your own, like, deciding what to do in the early days?

00:09:25.960 Or did you do a lot to figure out kind of what the market wanted?

00:09:28.520 Yeah, I think, to be honest, one of the things I'm most gutted by, and, like, I mean, it's

00:09:32.620 all learning, right?

00:09:33.480 We're just learning every day.

00:09:35.180 But, you know, you say that publicly on these kind of things, and then secretly inside,

00:09:39.460 you're kind of crying, rocking back to the boards, being like, why the hell have I done

00:09:42.260 this repeatedly?

00:09:43.920 I think one of the things I'm really gutted by is the fact that I'm like six years in,

00:09:47.020 but I feel about a year and a half in, in terms of learning.

00:09:50.080 And my dad always used to say, you know, you can meet someone who's got 20 years experience,

00:09:53.420 but is it two years times 10?

00:09:55.320 They've actually got two years experience.

00:09:56.760 And I feel a bit like that because I think we've, you know,

00:09:59.480 I feel like I've got to the bottom of that change cycle as an entrepreneur or CEO,

00:10:03.580 and then kind of looped back and made the same mistakes again.

00:10:06.380 And you look back on each year and you're like, God, I've done that again.

00:10:09.400 Like, God, I really am won over by people in interviews or whatever.

00:10:13.000 Whatever your weakness is, I suppose.

00:10:15.400 But I think, in essence, we've been really focused on just tech.

00:10:18.900 We've been very focused on B2B, gritty technology.

00:10:21.880 And I say that, but I mean, FinTech, trading platforms.

00:10:25.780 So lots in capital markets, cyber, AI, but AI is nothing.

00:10:30.100 AI applied to something.

00:10:32.020 And we would never try and sign a Monzo bank,

00:10:35.260 because we'd be like, not for us.

00:10:37.540 We would go after a trading platform that sells into JP Morgan.

00:10:41.440 So I think we have tried to be very focused.

00:10:43.640 And then with what we do, we say no to a lot now.

00:10:47.660 But I wish I had done that in year one.

00:10:49.660 I think in year one, I was just so rabbit in headlights,

00:10:52.240 you know, big company.

00:10:53.120 I earn no money, you know, no salary for a year,

00:10:55.600 10 grand for the next year, that you kind of just think,

00:10:58.320 revenue's revenue, right?

00:11:00.200 And then all of a sudden, you get like three years in,

00:11:02.140 and people think you do something,

00:11:03.280 and you kind of think, but that's not what I do at all.

00:11:05.660 This is crazy.

00:11:06.820 And you realize it's all your own doing.

00:11:09.400 Yeah, which is really gutting.

00:11:10.600 But all you can do is learn from it.

00:11:12.220 Well, I see in an interview you mentioned

00:11:15.040 to take everything you've done in a year, put it on a wall,

00:11:18.600 ask yourself if you're proud of it.

00:11:20.060 If you're not proud of things, ask yourself

00:11:22.360 why you keep pushing those things forward, et cetera.

00:11:24.780 Is that like something that you ask the CEOs you work with

00:11:29.080 or companies you work with to do?

00:11:30.320 Or is it something you even use for your own life?

00:11:32.440 How does that?

00:11:33.660 Yeah, I think it's more of a kind of cruxy thing

00:11:36.640 than it would be for a CEO.

00:11:37.960 I mean, if we're hired to do pricing,

00:11:40.040 we'd obviously try to get under the skin of like what they're doing that they think is

00:11:42.900 right and wrong. And obviously doing that by not just saying, what are you doing that's

00:11:46.060 right and wrong, but by actually intrinsic kind of driving into the motivations of why

00:11:50.860 they do things. But I think for me, it's more, yeah, sitting back and being able to take

00:11:57.300 a really brutal view of, okay, I talk a good game, but like we were talking about working

00:12:04.340 out before, before we started. And it's like, you know, you meet all these people, they're

00:12:07.860 like, oh yeah, I'm really trying to get fit or I'm really trying to lose weight. And then they're

00:12:11.360 kind of sitting there like secret eaters in the corner. And I think that's kind of-

00:12:15.620 Secret eaters. I love that term.

00:12:16.700 Who thought we could come up with like a link to secret eaters on this podcast?

00:12:20.680 But I do think that's the void between strategy and execution because everyone thinks they're

00:12:25.300 being focused. Everyone thinks they're being strategic. And then the next thing I know,

00:12:30.180 they're like flying to speak at a conference in Singapore and they've said AIPAC's not a focus

00:12:35.340 for them. So I think, yeah, I do try to, and I try to do it because I'm quite a kind of bullish

00:12:40.220 character. I think people are probably not as honest, you know, they probably feel a bit

00:12:46.140 intimidated. So I try to make sure that as a team, we sit around and I force people to be like,

00:12:50.800 what are we doing wrong? What should I not be doing? Um, I'm sure people still find it quite

00:12:55.620 hard, but I try to do all the things. But it's neat. So, so even using the concept of auditing

00:13:00.800 your time, it's because you said it twice now, you said even like, how much does my sales team

00:13:04.840 is spending talking to these non-fit customers,

00:13:07.900 or whatever it is.

00:13:10.280 Is that one of the ways for somebody

00:13:12.400 to self-audit their alignment to strategy,

00:13:16.600 is by actually just saying, OK, these

00:13:18.520 are the things we're supposed to be doing,

00:13:19.780 these things we say we're not doing.

00:13:21.400 Let's just ask people how they're spending their week

00:13:24.580 and see if there's a misalignment.

00:13:26.140 Oh, this is just a personal vendetta of mine.

00:13:29.380 So sorry, it's literally just bleeding.

00:13:31.060 But it's so simple, but I can see how that's so powerful.

00:13:33.640 we run a meeting now every week and it's a life changer for me anyway because i'm just a bit of a

00:13:39.720 geek and at the end of each week we just assess and it's mainly for me because i'm mainly like

00:13:43.960 the person out having these meetings it's like what did we expect to come from the week that we

00:13:48.280 just executed and it's very much connecting meetings favors pay it forward intros some

00:13:54.680 prospects but obviously lots of those come through all the good stuff you've done for a few years

00:13:59.240 hopefully but we do an audit of what did we expect to get from this week and what did we

00:14:04.340 actually get from it and what can we learn and then we look at the next two weeks forward and

00:14:09.540 say what should we cancel like should we cancel some of these meetings calendar map yeah is this

00:14:15.780 actually what we want to as a team this is where we want to deploy our unbelievably limited resource

00:14:21.880 of time people fight over like budget all the time but they never assess so like how much do

00:14:27.100 you see a big scaling tech company doing a budget assessment

00:14:30.460 of marketing or sales, versus how much do they sit and take

00:14:34.600 20 salespeople and assess, what are we doing?

00:14:37.900 It's just a personal ranting about opportunity cost

00:14:41.240 is one of my favorite pastimes.

00:14:42.620 Yeah, I mean, it's just such a simple idea of just

00:14:45.220 like looking forward two weeks from that feedback

00:14:48.940 and saying, hey, maybe we should cancel these meetings

00:14:52.180 or not take this trip.

00:14:53.500 Or it's tough, because sometimes it's sunk

00:14:56.900 cost some of its commitments you've made but I mean that's where you're probably going to make

00:15:01.360 the gains on like freeing up the resources to be able to then deploy it to the things that are

00:15:06.200 working yeah because I kind of think it doesn't matter how much you say oh yeah we do that oh

00:15:10.860 yeah we do that we do that in this monthly you know review of like it isn't the reality because

00:15:16.900 people just don't it's just not how we're conditioned we all back our own you know but

00:15:22.180 I've got these five meetings in and they're brilliant and I'm definitely it's definitely

00:15:25.300 worth my time to go to Hong Kong for those.

00:15:29.240 I just think that unless it becomes part of the culture,

00:15:31.640 I guess it's kind of the Ray Dalio extreme transparency.

00:15:37.060 If you can try to make that part of the principle

00:15:40.120 of how you operate, and you can say, look, I know.

00:15:42.740 Like getting that feedback?

00:15:43.740 Yeah.

00:15:44.240 And I think so the team feel they can say,

00:15:46.400 why are you going to that?

00:15:48.820 That's tough.

00:15:50.500 And lots of people say they do it,

00:15:52.100 and then you're kind of like, you go in as a consultant.

00:15:54.540 You might ask, but nobody's saying anything.

00:15:56.620 You're like, what do you think of the CEO and how he, and they're like.

00:15:59.080 Do you have to tell them it's like off the record or are they pretty.

00:16:01.920 I find wine helps greatly.

00:16:03.240 Yeah.

00:16:04.600 It's like, what are you into?

00:16:05.760 Pinot noir.

00:16:06.460 Let's go have a glass.

00:16:08.020 But no, I find, yeah, you can find a way to say it in the right.

00:16:12.300 So it lands in the right way, but obviously it is difficult.

00:16:15.420 And working out, obviously we were joking about lunges and stuff.

00:16:19.000 Why, why is that important to you?

00:16:20.700 Because you mentioned you do it with your team.

00:16:21.940 like is that is that something that you feel adds to the the team structure i know it's always been

00:16:27.660 a big part of my stuff but like how do you see that carrie i don't know it's weird isn't it

00:16:32.080 everyone that i've ever hired who's been awesome has had some kind of sport background yeah and

00:16:37.920 like i i was into horses when i was younger at quite a senior level and i think that like ingrained

00:16:42.700 discipline i mean got the d word discipline it always comes out but it's like there is something

00:16:48.240 about like obviously when you wake up in the morning like today you guys were up super early

00:16:52.340 like 5 50 alarm goes off you're in dublin it's raining it's really dark the last thing like

00:16:57.140 something you know i didn't really want to get up and go and like hit the gym but i think it's like

00:17:02.940 it just comes down to that mental resilience and i know personally i mean i know everyone's

00:17:09.360 different but like for me if i don't do that i feel like every day just slowly slips away from

00:17:14.600 me. Whereas if I can try to do that, then it keeps me a little bit sane, especially with lots of

00:17:18.640 travel. So like the mindset. Yeah. Yeah. So just like mental clarity, mental toughness for you,

00:17:25.700 especially because you were Utah, New York, now we're in Dublin, you're from London. Like

00:17:30.160 that's a lot of time zones. So if, so you're that for you, the, the, the working out is

00:17:37.420 almost like more mental than physical. How do you see that? Well, when I was at Mars, I was like

00:17:42.240 super overweight.

00:17:43.180 And I hadn't really, I just didn't take health seriously

00:17:46.120 at all.

00:17:46.620 I mean, you end up at these dinners.

00:17:47.960 And then, like, as you guys know, I mean, you go,

00:17:50.040 like, people are always, it's always a dinner.

00:17:51.900 Then there's always drinks.

00:17:52.900 And it's like, you just can't.

00:17:54.400 I mean, and to a certain extent, you kind of can't say no to it

00:17:56.860 because it's part of the business culture.

00:17:59.540 So yeah, I just think I learned from my mistakes, maybe.

00:18:02.340 And what about, like, the way, as a leader,

00:18:05.160 you know, doing those kind of things,

00:18:06.420 and then the rest of the team?

00:18:07.800 Like, do you think that it's important for the CEO

00:18:10.740 founder to kind of lead through examples especially on the like personal responsibility yeah i try to

00:18:18.220 say to the team all the time like it's things like being output driven like don't sit at your desk for

00:18:24.740 five hours on a friday if you're absolutely knackered and it's the last thing you want to do

00:18:28.000 and your brain's going in 20 directions i know myself on a friday i'm not like particularly

00:18:31.280 efficient but i can go home early maybe hit the gym or do something that's quite personal you know

00:18:37.880 and then on a Sunday I can maybe do one hour and I can crack through all the things that I was not

00:18:43.020 so I say to the team all the time like don't don't force it yeah and just play to your

00:18:48.180 play to your advantage right know yourself play to your advantage if you wake up and you're really

00:18:52.080 not in the mood nothing's super urgent know that but obviously you've got to balance that and we

00:18:56.900 have had struggles with people who have said but you said that so I just you know didn't deliver

00:19:01.940 what I said I would by Friday and we try yeah look at your face and we try to kind of be like

00:19:07.200 yeah but we said that in the context of you know efficiency and working like the last thing i want

00:19:12.540 is someone sitting slogging them like sitting there thinking i have to stay till seven because

00:19:16.500 carrie's still there because like sometimes you're just in the zone and then if you can get through

00:19:21.560 half the things that you were going to have to do tomorrow because you're in the zone on a thursday

00:19:24.840 night why would you not do that um but yeah it's really tough because i think you get things get

00:19:30.080 misinterpreted lots of people say to me all the time but you've got so much energy and i don't

00:19:33.940 have that energy, so it's a standard I can't uphold.

00:19:37.060 And I'm like, look, I'm not saying you need to be this way.

00:19:40.300 Be yourself.

00:19:41.440 But you say that, but I think it's quite hard for people.

00:19:45.100 I think people still believe that you want them

00:19:46.900 just to be a mini you.

00:19:49.180 And yeah, I spend a lot of time being like, no,

00:19:51.460 I want you to leverage your strengths.

00:19:53.560 If we're all like me, it's the one-legged duck

00:19:55.500 that swims in the circle.

00:19:57.460 I feel like that sometimes.

00:19:58.840 I like that you allow them to discover who they are

00:20:02.700 and play to that strength because it's true everybody's different i don't want anybody to

00:20:05.580 be like me i just want you to figure out your tempo your your date your energy flow for the day

00:20:11.980 and then play against that and you have to try really hard all the time like for me i have to

00:20:15.660 because i'm you know i like outward energy and i get energy from other people being that way so i

00:20:20.620 have to try all the time to be like oh even though you're saying you can be yourself and leverage

00:20:26.300 your own strengths your behavior is such that you that you're kind of saying you want everyone to

00:20:30.220 to be like you so I try really hard to be like oh yeah I'm doing that again stop that um I've had

00:20:36.300 a coach for a long time and like now I have an Olympic row as my coach he's amazing so I'm a big

00:20:41.380 fan of I've got my team coaching like I'm a big fan of kind of even if you're aware of something

00:20:47.320 like we were saying you can be aware of something but then every day catching yourself and being like

00:20:52.000 oh I'm doing that again that must be really annoying for people you mentioned that you have

00:20:56.000 coaching for your team, how does that work?

00:20:57.700 Or how do you either, how do you incorporate your coach

00:21:01.380 and the things he's teaching you?

00:21:03.180 Because I know that Shopify, they

00:21:04.880 were big in the early days of having essentially a whole

00:21:06.800 leadership development team, like a team of coaches

00:21:10.320 for their executive leadership team.

00:21:12.120 Yeah, and it's probably a big reason

00:21:14.060 why they've been so successful.

00:21:15.660 How do you bring coaching into your employee interactions?

00:21:21.000 So I don't think, I probably haven't got it right,

00:21:25.720 I think people is definitely a really big challenge.

00:21:31.520 I have had, I have like, I guess.

00:21:34.540 You guys got 60 clients you've worked with?

00:21:36.620 Yeah, yeah.

00:21:37.320 Yeah, and how big is the team?

00:21:38.440 So really small.

00:21:39.780 So we're kind of three, four client facing,

00:21:42.280 but then we use lots of like, so we have a data guy,

00:21:44.540 we have a project management resource, we have HR resource.

00:21:46.960 So we pull people in, but we obviously want to scale.

00:21:50.100 But I also want to make sure we've got the base right,

00:21:52.540 because otherwise I feel it's just spinning off.

00:21:55.140 But we've worked with, yeah, obviously some amazing clients.

00:21:57.660 And I think I have bought, you know, paid for coaching from the company, paid for coaching for people.

00:22:04.900 I've also kind of, I try to make sure that I have a one-on-one with everyone on the team every, probably every couple of weeks that's just personal.

00:22:12.260 It's like no functional, no what have you done.

00:22:14.820 No projects, no.

00:22:15.800 Literally like, how are you feeling?

00:22:16.880 Create the space, yeah.

00:22:17.920 Like, what do you think is going well at the moment?

00:22:19.760 What's not?

00:22:20.460 How can I, like.

00:22:21.360 Is there any interesting kind of like anecdotes around those one-on-ones

00:22:25.440 that really gave you insights on how powerful they were?

00:22:28.600 Yeah, I think there's things, I mean, I've definitely learned,

00:22:32.020 I guess it's probably useful for people watching who have my kind of personality,

00:22:35.220 which is slightly intense.

00:22:38.660 I've definitely learned to kind of manage the silence a lot more.

00:22:42.780 I think I'm quite excitable.

00:22:45.120 So I get kind of like, oh my God, oh my God, we could do like,

00:22:48.160 i'm like you know kind of a rottweiler puppy maybe like there's definitely a puppiness but

00:22:53.580 there's also a fierceness going on um but so i try to really shut up structure the one-on-one

00:23:03.060 questions in an open way and send them before because a lot of my team are more introverted so

00:23:07.200 don't think they can think on your their feet just because i like that it's obviously complete

00:23:11.520 opposite for some people and then yeah i quite often say if there was one thing i could do

00:23:17.000 differently, if there was one thing you'd like more of.

00:23:20.040 So trying to not just say, how are you feeling at the moment?

00:23:22.940 Are you happy?

00:23:24.000 I mean, that's just a ridiculous question.

00:23:27.020 So yeah, I guess try to use some of the techniques

00:23:29.220 we use in our questioning with clients,

00:23:31.460 but to angle them internally.

00:23:33.500 And quite often, I've had quite a few people be like,

00:23:35.400 I feel like I've just had an hour of therapy.

00:23:37.560 So I think I must be doing something right.

00:23:38.980 Although it's really quite weird to have therapy

00:23:40.960 with a rottweiler puppy, but let's just go with it.

00:23:43.120 But I mean, if you calm down, it's

00:23:44.700 good to be self-aware of saying, hey,

00:23:46.260 I know that, you know, if I'm, I need to create the white, the space for them to feel comfortable

00:23:51.020 enough to like, give me the answer. And I got to just listen. Cause I don't know. I'm the same

00:23:55.800 way. I don't mind filling in white, like, you know, and then the conversation doesn't happen.

00:24:00.220 I never realized how important that was that you said that, um, sending the question in advance.

00:24:04.160 Cause I'm very much like, I can just talk, you know, off the top of my head, but you're right.

00:24:08.740 Some people are like, Oh, I forgot to ask you this. I meant to say this, you know?

00:24:12.000 And also I think reflective is just like completely different personalities, right?

00:24:16.060 the introvert versus extrovert detail versus not and i think the more you learn about the way you

00:24:22.140 are and your preferences it just gives you more of an edge in you know every area it's like when

00:24:27.860 people say oh i'm going to pitch we do a lot in private equity and with some some vcs but the

00:24:32.860 larger and more open-minded i'd say but a lot more in private equity and people often moan about the

00:24:39.060 way those meetings run and it's kind of like but think of that as a personality style like

00:24:45.220 if you don't know your numbers off by heart when i was at mars i presented to tesco once and i

00:24:50.080 didn't know my numbers off by heart they were like you know what's the market going at didn't

00:24:53.360 know them and i remember my boss kind of saying well you kind of let us down didn't you and she

00:24:57.060 said it in a nice way yeah but i was really upset you got the message from then on i learned the

00:25:01.500 excel every time and almost too much that i'd be like well that market's going at 7.8 and we're

00:25:07.380 actually going at 9.3 so we're growing and shifting the market for you tesco and you're behind and

00:25:12.140 And you just, and it's similar with investors.

00:25:14.360 It's like, you just, you know, but I'm not a numbers person or I don't really like that.

00:25:18.380 Or that's why I have my co-founder.

00:25:20.140 No, not okay.

00:25:21.140 You're CEO of the company.

00:25:22.780 And often people don't just say, they're just not direct about that.

00:25:26.900 And I think it's similar with, um, with your team internally, you know, you obviously want

00:25:31.340 to be caring and understanding, but also sometimes you have to say, you know, I've definitely

00:25:35.700 encouraged people to leave because I'm like, do something you love.

00:25:40.900 You have to work in something that you think, I would do this for free.

00:25:45.860 I would do a pricing or an internationalization project for free because I'm a geek and I

00:25:52.720 think it's fascinating and really super interesting.

00:25:55.240 And if you really think it's the kind of roll your eyes, just go find the thing that wouldn't

00:26:00.560 be that.

00:26:01.560 Even though it's gutting.

00:26:02.560 Even though you're going to lose them?

00:26:03.560 Yeah.

00:26:04.560 Because it's gutting.

00:26:05.560 That's not why I think they should be fulfilled.

00:26:10.720 But yeah, maybe it's a bit of a kind of utopian view.

00:26:14.000 I mean, it's, I.

00:26:14.980 It's really why I have a small team.

00:26:16.280 I'm like, go find the thing you love.

00:26:18.020 Carrie, stop doing that.

00:26:18.520 You're awesome, but you need to go do the thing

00:26:20.180 that lights you up even more.

00:26:22.620 When should a company think of bringing in somebody

00:26:25.000 to help them with strategy?

00:26:26.000 Because I mean, a lot of, if you're at a million in revenue,

00:26:28.980 you kind of feel like you've got enough things

00:26:30.940 you've got to figure out.

00:26:31.940 Like it's clear, but, and I love that you said private equity

00:26:34.520 because I can clearly see the alignment there

00:26:36.240 where they're at scale trying to assess different companies

00:26:39.440 and opportunities and stuff.

00:26:40.580 But how should a CEO and founder,

00:26:42.560 because that's predominantly my audience,

00:26:44.020 how should they think about bringing in somebody

00:26:47.020 like yourself to help them with these things?

00:26:49.580 So I think we always say, and like we said it earlier,

00:26:54.500 in every session we run, we always say,

00:26:56.240 but if you can get the data.

00:27:00.120 So if you layer one, always do yourself.

00:27:02.660 someone like me will definitely ping you.

00:27:04.820 Like I ping so many people like,

00:27:06.460 oh, if you're a 1 million ARR

00:27:08.260 and you're really thinking about your pricing,

00:27:10.300 here's a spreadsheet to get someone to fill in.

00:27:12.660 Go do these 10 slides and assess it.

00:27:15.940 Don't hire a consultant, personal view.

00:27:18.940 Okay.

00:27:19.860 I think there comes a point where you're scaling,

00:27:24.340 you've got so many things on the list.

00:27:26.700 You know that this is a big thing that's maybe your,

00:27:29.020 I call it frogging, you know,

00:27:30.100 cause there's this thing called eat the frog.

00:27:31.440 It's like you've put it in the corner and it's become this Godzilla frog.

00:27:33.860 Brian Tracy, eat the frog.

00:27:35.040 You've got to chunk it down and get chewing on that frog.

00:27:37.820 Frogging, you call it frogging.

00:27:39.000 Of course.

00:27:39.500 So if you're frogging it, and if you're kind of putting it in the corner and letting it

00:27:43.800 just become this beastly thing, then I would say you probably, it depends how important

00:27:49.580 it is.

00:27:50.060 Is it on the scale, are you frogging it because it doesn't really matter, or is it actually

00:27:52.800 really important in this to be a game changer?

00:27:54.840 Yeah.

00:27:55.160 In which case, I think most of the time, I think it's a mindset shift with consulting

00:27:59.840 because I don't think you're hiring someone smarter than you.

00:28:02.280 I don't think you're hiring someone

00:28:03.140 who's going to do this completely differently to you.

00:28:05.660 I think most of the time you're hiring someone

00:28:07.040 who's going to deliver to a process

00:28:08.160 and get it done in eight weeks.

00:28:09.500 That's a bandwidth thing.

00:28:10.480 And they're going to make it happen.

00:28:11.840 And they are going to, in my case, it's my baby.

00:28:14.840 If I don't make this happen and I don't delight you,

00:28:17.680 it is going to hurt my company.

00:28:19.180 You don't have to hire someone.

00:28:20.380 You don't have to go and risk the fact

00:28:21.580 you've hired the wrong person

00:28:22.500 and they want to be onboarded.

00:28:23.940 It's like, look, point and shoot.

00:28:26.680 It's like maybe seals.

00:28:28.360 Yeah.

00:28:28.520 yeah i want this answered in 12 weeks i think you're relatively smart i'm sure my team internally

00:28:33.640 could probably answer it but ultimately yeah opportunity cost is too great you've got

00:28:39.320 experience go and then i think you do bring perspective you bring the fact you make it

00:28:43.000 happen and you bring the fact that you've got energy and you hopefully work as a team

00:28:46.600 all these good things but i think if you're sitting there and you're thinking

00:28:50.920 you're drowning there's so much there's this big thing that i've got to tackle

00:28:55.240 and for me to pull together a project team to get someone to own it to do all of this

00:28:59.880 actually what is 80k what is 200k what is that amount of money if the opportunity cost is

00:29:06.600 everyone's time for four weeks and a load of you know moaning about priorities and

00:29:12.520 there comes a point in the company's um growth cycle where i think it's worth taking that jump

00:29:18.040 yeah but until it is like yeah ping me and i'll send you all of our processes like i'm super open

00:29:23.720 on all of that i just like i'd rather get you some wins get yourself further along when you're

00:29:27.640 ready long time long term if you do loads of favors and you pay it forward i think those people

00:29:32.440 they'll either come to you or they'll send someone to you and say oh they were really helpful

00:29:37.000 um so that's why we do a lot of stuff for earlier stage companies because we're not targeting them

00:29:40.840 but we want to be helpful and we send them kind of oh here's an excel you could fill in or you

00:29:45.160 could just take this or maybe the question you need to think about these three and we always i

00:29:49.480 I guess we've made friends that way, so.

00:29:51.200 That's a good way to do it.

00:29:52.720 It's a bit more American than British, though.

00:29:53.960 Yeah, no, it's actually really interesting.

00:29:56.400 What have you noticed about the difference

00:29:57.820 between the British and the American way of doing business?

00:30:00.720 Because I know even building sales team and selling

00:30:03.100 to British or even Europe versus the US,

00:30:06.700 like there's, you cannot be, like, if you try to ask

00:30:09.880 for a credit card on a first conversation,

00:30:11.860 they're like, ooh, wait, I don't like this at all.

00:30:13.860 Like, don't do that to me.

00:30:14.800 They're like, you're so transactional.

00:30:15.800 Yeah, like, who are you?

00:30:16.660 Yeah, and then Americans, they're like, just take my card.

00:30:18.980 Let's do this.

00:30:19.740 So what have you learned around even helping your clients

00:30:24.480 like internationalize?

00:30:25.480 Or what are some of the things that people need to prepare?

00:30:28.880 Especially, most of my audience is probably US,

00:30:31.220 the ones that are coming into Europe.

00:30:32.740 What do they need to look out for?

00:30:34.400 So I think it kind of goes both ways.

00:30:36.200 We do a lot of work with US companies, to be honest,

00:30:38.320 because I think our ethos is just a very good fit

00:30:40.360 with demanding, challenging results orientation, speed,

00:30:46.280 But without, don't relent on quality.

00:30:50.860 You know, speed and quality should be able to be achieved at the same time.

00:30:56.740 I think for sales particularly, the whole cultural nuances,

00:31:01.480 the way that people in Europe and the UK, I think, want the dance.

00:31:06.580 They want a dance.

00:31:07.520 They want a dance.

00:31:08.340 Yeah.

00:31:08.780 And sadly, they kind of also, there's a little bit,

00:31:11.320 and we kind of have this, you know, bracket in our CRM

00:31:13.780 for people that are not cruxy who we're not trying to sell to.

00:31:16.280 because if they say anything like you know i've got a hole in my business and the question is can

00:31:20.680 you fill that hole we're just like a that's really dodgy be like no we don't want to we don't you

00:31:26.400 know you're not the kind of person so i think from our viewpoint and all of our u.s clients

00:31:30.200 would be similar it's like we're in it together let's make this happen we're both vested small

00:31:34.340 company they're scaling hugely how do we make this happen very direct conversations i think

00:31:39.460 i mean i'm probably not the best person to talk about serving to british people because all of

00:31:43.460 clients are not really in the uk um but i think have you helped them come to the british like

00:31:50.180 britain like have you helped them us companies come over here a couple we've looked at investigating

00:31:54.660 the market and a couple we're literally doing projects just in the us like a pricing strategy

00:31:58.820 project that's just about them in the us yeah but i think um in the uk they want the dance in in

00:32:05.940 europe it's completely different i mean france you could take someone for lunch for three hours and

00:32:09.460 and then kind of finally over the espresso talk about the problem, kind of so nuanced

00:32:14.460 and so different. But I think in the UK, you can be more direct, but I think it's talking

00:32:20.560 and we have interviewed lots of banks and lots of insurance companies, lots of big enterprises.

00:32:25.540 And they always say that actually what they do want is more vision. So they usually talk

00:32:30.300 down on the approach of some tech companies saying they come in with their clunky products

00:32:34.540 there, flogging me the what. And what I want is someone to talk to me about my problems

00:32:39.300 and to challenge. And I was with a few hedge funds last week and they were all saying,

00:32:43.120 you know, no one comes in and says, let me talk to you about your trade workflow. How

00:32:46.800 does this operate? What are you automating? Why? Where are you generating alpha through

00:32:50.520 your data? You know, these are super complicated things, but if you go in and you're curious,

00:32:56.200 you might not do your 20 minute demo and then kind of go, but they're never gonna, they're

00:33:02.420 never going to buy from a demo in the first meeting anyway. So accept that and go in and

00:33:06.700 be really curious, especially if it's a big sale, big ticket item. Whereas I still think

00:33:11.280 in the UK they're quite naive. I mean, I just don't think in a, I mean, people talk about

00:33:15.300 how in the US you have to like stand up in class and kind of sell yourself in like, you

00:33:20.580 know, when you're like seven, stand up and sell yourself. And in the UK, it would be

00:33:26.280 like, never do that. That is really embarrassing. You've just let down your whole family. And

00:33:32.080 I say that as someone who basically, I'm not very, I don't mean ethos, I'm not very like that, but

00:33:37.260 yeah, you definitely get these kind of dodgy looks. People, someone said to me the other day, like,

00:33:41.200 gosh, you're the most salesy person I've ever met. And I was like, God, I never, you know,

00:33:46.480 I really don't think of myself in that way. Obviously not. I'm British. But I, but then I

00:33:51.600 kind of thought, well, actually I'm always trying to help people and do favors and connect the dots.

00:33:55.100 So maybe they meant it. I kind of took it. I just tried to block it from my mind and then take it

00:34:00.060 the way i wanted but maybe they didn't mean it in that way well we get to decide um the relationship

00:34:06.220 side seems to be a big part of the way you you've mentioned a few times how you like to pay it

00:34:10.460 forward and and if you do good stuff in the world it comes back how do you see that in regards to

00:34:16.540 how you look at your time your schedule how do you invest in relationships what's your

00:34:21.420 what's your approach to that it's definitely one of my the things i find really hard because i think

00:34:25.500 I don't know. I'm a bit, I just believe that eventually something will come in, come off.

00:34:32.700 So there's a lot of people who I've spent a lot of time and energy getting to know and becoming

00:34:37.180 friends. And I actually genuinely have done it because they're nice people and you want to do

00:34:40.860 it, but you do obviously have to balance that. Now I try to kind of just say, look, if you're not

00:34:46.860 having breakfast or drinks or something, maybe two, three times a week. And then every meeting

00:34:53.020 I go to, I try to do three favors.

00:34:55.740 For a person you meet?

00:34:56.860 Yeah.

00:34:57.400 Wow.

00:34:57.980 So I'm like, right, how can I help them?

00:34:59.900 Oh, they're looking to hire, and there's someone

00:35:01.360 I know who's really good at that.

00:35:02.440 Or, oh, they're really interested in selling to banks,

00:35:04.940 and they want to meet, I don't know, HSBC,

00:35:06.880 and I happen to know someone there.

00:35:08.080 Or I try to just make sure that I do that.

00:35:10.760 Because as soon as, when I don't have that kind of equation

00:35:15.440 in my head, because I'm obviously a slightly binary,

00:35:17.820 I find it really difficult, and it just runs away with me.

00:35:20.660 And then I'm like, oh, I've promised all these intros,

00:35:22.340 and I've not done them, which, you know,

00:35:24.420 promising something and not delivering.

00:35:26.000 Is there anything worse in life?

00:35:27.100 Yeah, it feels horrible.

00:35:28.520 Yeah, it's that, like you're like, oh my god,

00:35:30.380 I found a lobe from two years ago.

00:35:33.860 So yeah, so I'm trying to do that all the time.

00:35:36.680 I mean, I'm sure there's some.

00:35:38.280 And you said two or three meals a week

00:35:40.340 you try to meet with somebody else.

00:35:41.640 Or like a drink, a breakfast, something, yeah.

00:35:44.480 Yeah, and is that something that you proactively

00:35:46.920 reach out to schedule, or you just accept more inbound?

00:35:50.460 No, no, proactively.

00:35:51.540 OK, and is there a specific like, is it part of a strategy?

00:35:55.500 Or is it just like whoever comes?

00:35:57.060 Because I used to be more like build the spreadsheet,

00:36:01.560 who are the people I need to know in my industry,

00:36:03.780 organize dinners, et cetera.

00:36:05.460 And then I started kind of being more like whoever

00:36:09.520 comes to mind.

00:36:10.380 You know, like I almost like it when my mind's like,

00:36:12.180 what's that person?

00:36:13.200 I need to add them to the list, right?

00:36:14.520 Next time I'm in New York, I want to have meals.

00:36:17.280 Because I feel like the universe speaks to me a little that way.

00:36:19.680 So I want to run with it.

00:36:20.620 But what is your approach to, is it biz dev?

00:36:27.820 Is it relationship building?

00:36:29.680 I think that's the hard thing, because what bucket

00:36:31.700 do you put it in?

00:36:33.120 I don't do it for biz dev.

00:36:36.580 I'm not doing it thinking, oh, there's going to be a deal here.

00:36:40.020 It's a combination of like, I really like you.

00:36:42.980 I think there is, I mean, now that Cruxie's a bit older,

00:36:45.260 I think now I have this innate filter, because I'm like,

00:36:48.600 I mean, people that buy from us are like very open-minded,

00:36:52.180 very challenging, quite brutal,

00:36:54.380 very direct people who demand a nine out of 10.

00:36:58.120 They've probably hired all the consultants in previous lives

00:37:00.920 and they have some kind of energy connection

00:37:03.820 in that ethos sense with what I'm trying to do.

00:37:07.540 So they're like that.

00:37:08.760 They then are quite open-minded

00:37:10.600 in that they're not people who are just saying,

00:37:12.660 oh, I'm just going to hire a big name

00:37:13.720 because it will pacify my board.

00:37:15.380 They're kind of, they've got that like challenger edge, I guess.

00:37:18.600 And then I know the industries in which they're in.

00:37:21.800 So everyone that I like and enjoy spending time with

00:37:25.760 is kind of almost like the natural filter.

00:37:27.920 So just automatically.

00:37:29.160 So yeah, if you think, do I really want to do this?

00:37:31.600 I guess it's a bit like in your personal life,

00:37:33.080 you kind of have all these friends from university

00:37:35.280 or something and you're like, oh my God,

00:37:36.660 I've gone for lunch with someone

00:37:37.580 and now I feel really drained.

00:37:39.040 Maybe I shouldn't see them that much anymore, you know?

00:37:41.260 And you have all this heritage where you think

00:37:43.440 I should do that because I should.

00:37:45.440 And then you start to kind of realize when you get older

00:37:47.600 that you don't actually need to do that at all.

00:37:49.340 You can just spend time with the people you really like.

00:37:51.840 And I think, I don't know, I'm just a great believer

00:37:54.320 that if you spend time with people

00:37:55.320 you have that connection with.

00:37:56.160 Like when we walked in the room, big hug,

00:37:57.920 like loads of energy, good banter, lots of bounce.

00:38:01.400 Like we'll stay in touch, we'll do each other favors,

00:38:03.280 we'll probably win clients through each other.

00:38:04.920 Awesome.

00:38:06.000 But like, how do you ever define that?

00:38:07.880 Yeah, it's not a forced thing.

00:38:09.560 It's either you like somebody and you want to see them do well

00:38:11.640 and you help them out, or you don't

00:38:13.880 and you just don't follow up, don't speak up.

00:38:16.040 Yeah, or you don't, and then you're kind of like, oh God,

00:38:17.600 I feel really bad, but I shouldn't commit to anything for you.

00:38:20.660 That's the hard part is, as I know that I've,

00:38:23.840 in the early days, I just, you know, you read the book,

00:38:26.380 you mentioned earlier, like Dale Carnegie, or, you know,

00:38:28.900 Keith Frazee, Never Eat Alone.

00:38:30.160 And it's just like, it gets exhaustive.

00:38:32.040 And then it's to what you just said,

00:38:33.360 the filter of just do it for people

00:38:35.840 that you feel compelled to want to do it for, not just

00:38:38.360 everybody, because it's like some checklist.

00:38:40.720 Again, I'm a software guy, so it's kind of more,

00:38:44.480 more kind of systematized.

00:38:46.560 But when it comes to growing what you're doing now,

00:38:50.180 how do you think of taking your associates

00:38:55.220 like and doubling the size?

00:38:56.920 Is it choosing to do less in what you're doing now, maybe more?

00:39:02.540 Because I think the private equity

00:39:04.000 sounds fascinating because they've got money

00:39:05.600 and they need a lot of this kind of stuff.

00:39:07.400 Or is it to grow just broader?

00:39:10.320 What's your growth strategy for the next two years?

00:39:12.920 so i want us to say really distinctive in tech and fintech and the more complex end of that

00:39:17.560 i don't think we're you know that's where we've built up expertise and i mean i say expertise

00:39:22.200 it's like but you know we've got market insight in that area it's something that we enjoy we kind

00:39:26.520 of find it fascinating to get under the skin of these businesses so i think we should stay

00:39:30.600 very focused in that way i think what we offer should stay also very focused around pricing

00:39:35.400 strategy and new markets new segments new verticals because in essence they're very similar

00:39:39.560 it's like dig into where the value sits assess using quantitative and qualitative techniques

00:39:44.600 what that means and then build an action plan to deliver so i think in that way we should stay

00:39:48.760 very focused i think it's all around the team so i spoke earlier about challenges and i think

00:39:54.040 i need to find i've got a couple of people who are just you know i mean i don't even know how

00:39:59.880 they exist as human beings they're absolutely outstanding and i'm not willing at this stage

00:40:06.440 and size we sell the people we are right so if i bring someone on who's not quite an ethos fit

00:40:12.840 we sell the people we are got it well yeah no it makes sense i mean i don't like the fact it is

00:40:18.220 because i'd love to you know embed tech at some point but right now that's you know the energy

00:40:22.560 with which you walk in the room you where you articulate something that you've got to kind of

00:40:26.220 get that person to buy into the fact you can help them with something that they currently believe

00:40:29.680 they might do to deliver on it yeah yeah so i think it's all about the team so i want to yeah

00:40:35.780 I want to take us double revenue next year.

00:40:39.160 We should get close to a million revenue this year.

00:40:41.160 So looking to 2020, want to really step that up.

00:40:45.960 And through people who have the right ethos,

00:40:48.880 but also are smart and able to get shit done,

00:40:51.760 I think there's not many of those in the world,

00:40:53.800 as far as I can tell.

00:40:54.720 The fact that you sold the sports car,

00:40:56.840 moved into your parents to start the business

00:40:58.560 tells me a lot about who you are.

00:40:59.900 And I think that's fascinating.

00:41:01.820 As you look back on your journey, who

00:41:06.240 did you need to become to be the CEO that's

00:41:09.080 leading the company today?

00:41:11.700 Oh, I'm not sure I am yet.

00:41:13.500 I think it's a lifelong journey.

00:41:14.760 But what's changed from six years ago or five years ago

00:41:17.340 to now?

00:41:17.840 Like, what are those lessons or what are those?

00:41:20.960 Who did you need to become to get to this point?

00:41:23.580 I mean, it doesn't matter what anyone says to you about,

00:41:30.060 oh, you know, my company's obviously really small.

00:41:32.840 I just think when you meet other founders

00:41:35.260 and you look them in the eyes

00:41:36.320 and you can see the pain that they've been through

00:41:39.960 and like you go to these dinners

00:41:41.100 and I'm sure you go to them as well.

00:41:42.440 And, you know, people sit there

00:41:43.940 and maybe I'm just invited because I'm a woman,

00:41:45.600 I'm a small company,

00:41:46.340 but you still, you go to them

00:41:48.080 and you kind of have this connection with people

00:41:49.760 and you're just like, but it's so brutal,

00:41:52.640 but it's so glorious.

00:41:55.160 And that's this guy, Hugh McLeod,

00:41:56.960 who does Gaping Void, amazing.

00:41:59.440 and I love all of his stuff when I first started the company yeah when I first started the company

00:42:04.380 I like sent him an email just being like this is amazing and he replied and I was just like ah

00:42:08.700 so did Seth Godin as well and I just thought oh my god these people are so amazing and yeah he

00:42:14.100 has this thing and it's like you know mediocrity sucks and I love all of his his ethos that's

00:42:19.240 brought out obviously through his cartoons but he but this kind of it's so brutal and so glorious

00:42:23.880 there's no other way to describe it so now i don't feel the highs and i don't feel the lows

00:42:30.900 that i used to i think i've definitely become someone that's kind of like oh we've had this

00:42:35.600 amazing win that's something i never thought was humanly possible and i should be delighted

00:42:38.860 and i'm really happy and it's good a bit jocko like you know good yeah um but then if something

00:42:44.400 really awful happens it's like no one's died it's fine worse things will come no one's died

00:42:49.240 and I think that as someone with lots of energy for life yeah I kind of spin up or spin down to

00:42:55.480 like become a little bit more and I think I've always been quite resilient but I think I've

00:43:00.040 definitely become a lot more resilient like people have left who I've kind of thought wouldn't I've

00:43:04.940 cried in like a toilet at an event for three hours just thinking having a panic attack thinking I

00:43:10.340 can't do this like everything awful and everything wonderful has happened rolled into one and I think

00:43:15.500 you just have to i mean it just makes you stronger than you ever thought but not in a cheesy way i

00:43:20.700 mean don't get me wrong i'm still like crying most days not quite literally um but you know

00:43:25.900 you just have these wobbles and then you're kind of like come on you can get through this and i

00:43:29.100 think i mean maybe it's just the voices in your head change or you change that the way that you

00:43:33.820 take them on but i think it's it's just the most insane thing it's indescribable it's pretty cool

00:43:41.340 isn't it it's just indescribable yeah and you try to explain it to people and then you're like

00:43:45.340 sorry i'm doing a really bad job of explaining this to you but i kind of don't know how to explain

00:43:50.620 how some days you feel completely on the brink of breakdown and other days you and then suddenly

00:43:57.340 you go into this flow where you kind of mellow and you're like oh yeah everything's kind of

00:44:01.340 going wrong but you know it's all good we live to fight another day like it all happened in the same

00:44:06.060 week the highs and lows yeah it's so bad one hour yeah it's like the world's falling apart

00:44:10.860 this is the best day ever and you're like come on we can do this then you go to the toilet have a

00:44:15.300 cry come back it's um but yeah i don't know i just don't think many people talk about it like that i

00:44:20.400 think especially like the mental health and not mental health i know that's kind of like a trendy

00:44:24.400 thing people that say now but i mean more of the kind of just literally the anxiety the resilience

00:44:29.780 the way that you have to just keep fighting and obviously like you have days where you just think

00:44:34.040 oh my god I don't like I want a duvet day I want a duvet day but you just get up hit the lunges

00:44:41.340 yeah hit the lunges the banded lunges I don't know how you do that the banded lunges apparently

00:44:45.400 you're keen to take it on I'm gonna get some bands I'm gonna I'm gonna send you some uh Carrie how

00:44:49.900 do people find you online uh so cruxy.co.uk I'm on twitter at Carrie underscore loves underscore

00:44:56.180 don't ask it was ages ago um and uh on LinkedIn Carrie Osman would obviously be awesome to connect

00:45:02.160 for people. I mean, I think, yeah, pay it forward. And all of that ethos rings true for people that

00:45:07.460 you know and those you don't. So I just actually agreed. Someone said, oh, I went to the same

00:45:11.440 university as you. And I'm thinking about getting into consulting. And I was like, yeah, of course,

00:45:15.220 like, let's do a call. So all that stuff, you know, you've got to keep doing it, right?

00:45:19.940 That's amazing. Carrie, thanks so much.

00:45:21.340 Thank you.

00:45:21.800 Really appreciate it.

00:45:22.580 You're a legend.

00:45:23.320 Thanks for watching this episode of Escape Velocity. Be sure to like and subscribe and

00:45:28.400 leave a comment with your biggest insight from our conversation. Be sure to check out the next episode.

Dan Martell - August 27, 2020

Should You Hire a Management Consultant？ with Carrie Osman @ Cruxy - Escape Velocity Show #35

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