On January 6th, 2019, journalist Owen Schroeder was at the Capitol to cover the swearing in of Vice President-elect Joe Biden. He was arrested and imprisoned for his part in the process. On this episode of the podcast, we discuss what happened that day, why he was arrested, and how he was treated by the Department of Justice. We also discuss how he is doing and why he should have been allowed access to counsel and treatment during his time in prison. And, of course, we have a special guest on the podcast today, Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-GAETZ), who was there on that day to support the vote recount process and the process that resulted in the election of Joe Biden as the next president of the United States. He is currently being held in a federal prison in Washington, D.C. as a result of his participation in the recount process, and the subsequent criminal charges brought against him by the DOJ and the DOJ's decision not to allow him access to legal counsel or access to a lawyer to challenge the outcome of the vote count. In this episode, we talk about that day and what went wrong, and what happened to him that day. and why it s important to remember that no one should ever go to the Capitol unless they ve got their hands on a copy of the results of the election and try to find out who actually voted for President. or votes were cast. in order to be eligible to vote for President and who actually won in a fair and just process or not who actually got to vote not Donald Trump s on the ballot . Who won . . . Donald Trump the Republican presidential candidate by the votes cast by the other person , not by a single person by a third party but by the vote by the machine . And that s not a legitimate vote by an electoral college which is not a sham . by anyone is a sham? what s really a sham ? no by someone who votes for Donald Trump, not by an actual vote and isn t a sham ? or to be if they re elected voted for Trump, it s not a sham , but they re not a criminal so what s going to happen?
00:05:35.000Owen Schroer was at the Capitol on January 6th.
00:05:45.000He was subject to federal criminal prosecution and imprisonment.
00:05:50.000As we have talked about many of the civil rights issues that January 6th defendants have faced, whether it's been access to counsel or treatment during incarceration.
00:05:58.000Many of you have asked questions about how Owen's doing and what his conditions are.
00:06:03.000He's out now, and so I welcome him to the podcast.
00:06:07.000Owen, I want to get into this full experience you had, but maybe first, just for people who don't know you and your story, explain why you came to the Capitol on January 6th and what your goals were that day.
00:06:20.000Sure, and the individuals responsible for my incarceration know that what I'm about to tell you is 100% true because they've had complete and unfettered access to all electronic data that they have requested, including multiple cell phones.
00:06:36.000So, as many people may or may not be aware of now, there was a procedure on January 6th where members of Congress and the Vice President at the time, Mike Pence, can take a second To review the election process, the electoral process, and take a pause to see if all laws were followed before certifying the election of Joe Biden.
00:06:58.000And we were there that day to support that legal and lawful process, which, by the way, has been done before in America's history.
00:07:08.000By Democrats, multiple times even by Democrats.
00:07:12.000So I was there as a journalist covering that proceeding in support of it, hoping that we could review some of the laws, some of the changes of the laws and some of the process that went down in the electoral process that winded up electing Joe Biden.
00:07:27.000And I don't know, maybe getting a question answered like, How Donald Trump was leading in five states at 3 o'clock in the morning of election night, and then Joe Biden won those states at 3.30, but perhaps that's another issue for another time.
00:07:39.000So that's what I was there doing that day.
00:07:41.000It is interesting that we see that pattern play out, right, where you get a lot of early returns from some of the precincts with lower vote totals, and then at the very end, It's almost like you see ballots willed into existence in some of these jurisdictions that don't have the type of tight ballot custody, chain of custody, and transparency regarding votes cast.
00:08:09.000You really drew a fine point on this fact that people have made these arguments and offered these contests to electors quite frequently.
00:08:19.000Not just In distant history, but in recent history, the last Republican to be elected president in the absence of some Democrat objection to electors was George Herbert Walker Bush.
00:08:33.000So you show up as a journalist, you show up as someone interested in that process, and when did you first become aware that what you were doing there was going to have consequence in the federal criminal realm?
00:08:51.000Well and let me just get one thing clear before I answer that question as well.
00:08:56.000I never touched a police officer or any other law enforcement agent and I'm on record trying to stop people from going into the Capitol and trying to work with Capitol Police to try to stop the entire thing from happening.
00:09:10.000So I just want to make sure that that point is clarified here.
00:09:13.000Now as far as when did I realize that I was going to be Continued to be persecuted by the Department of Justice.
00:09:21.000And I say continued to be criminally persecuted because this actually started in 2019. And you may or may not be aware that when Jerry Nadler was holding a sham impeachment hearing of Donald Trump, I stood up during the hearing and I said, Donald Trump is innocent.
00:09:37.000It's the Democrats are the real criminals.
00:09:39.000The cops escorted me out of the building.
00:09:41.000As I'm sure you're aware, this happens all the time in the Capitol.
00:09:44.000This happens all the time in congressional hearings.
00:09:46.000The one difference might be that I'm actually a conservative.
00:09:48.000Usually it's liberals and Democrats that do this.
00:09:51.000And they just get detained for a minute, escorted out of the building, and that's it.
00:09:55.000And that's what was going to happen to me.
00:09:57.000But somebody got on the Capitol Police's walkie-talkie and said, no, you're not going to release Owen Schroer.
00:10:03.000You're going to arrest him and charge him.
00:10:06.000And so I've been dealing with this since 2019. Now, there's also other false reports out there that I violated a standard of my probation.
00:10:16.000There are false reports out there that even the prosecuting attorneys tried to argue to the judge inaccurately that I didn't complete my community service.
00:11:00.000And then to his suspicion, they said, oh, we can't clear this off the docket.
00:11:04.000There might be something else going on.
00:11:06.000Now, this was in the early summer of 2021. And then late in the summer, in August of 2021, I received an indictment from the FBI for my arrest for four completely bogus charges related to January 6th, and then an allegation that I violated my probation, which they argue I did, but we never got to defend that.
00:11:28.000I would argue that I didn't violate my probation, and I think it's very clear In the wording in my probation that I did not violate.
00:11:36.000But again, these are just false reports that we get from our corrupt Department of Justice, its workers, and the mainstream media.
00:11:42.000I think there are a lot of people who were at the Capitol grounds on January 6th who didn't go inside, but were there because they wanted to observe this process.
00:11:53.000Some, like you, wanted to record it in some way for Journalistic purposes.
00:11:59.000Some wanted to have their voice heard, that they didn't believe that the electors were properly certified and they wanted the benefit of these objections to prevail in the legally contemplated constitutional system that you described.
00:12:16.000And so really it must have been crazy when you then get the news that this is going to result in this really enhanced federal application of criminal law against you.
00:12:28.000As we have observed some of these cases, we see prosecutors trying to overcharge or Get even more draconian punishment that you would ever anticipate associated with these types of charges.
00:12:42.000You know is that something that having gone through this process you think that we ought to investigate and is it is it something you've observed?
00:12:50.000This is actually a very important point that you bring up here Matt because We are now aware of this, and if there is a silver lining in my case and maybe some of the other January 6th defendants that have just been completely abused by this Department of Justice, perhaps this is the silver lining.
00:13:08.000What I've realized here is there is no incentive for justice in the Department of Justice.
00:13:14.000The incentive from prosecuting attorneys and U.S. attorneys is convictions, and the incentive from the judge is prison time.
00:13:23.000you notice i didn't say justice so what happens is the u.s attorneys and the prosecuting attorneys they will vastly overcharge you six seven charges many of which are just completely ludicrous but they'll wildly overcharge you at the hopes or the assumption that you're going to take a plea bargain and most people do who can trust a jury of their non-peers because this isn't a jury of your peers This isn't a jury of people that know you or live in your area or work in the same field as you.
00:13:53.000I would have been in a jury in D.C. I would have had no chance.
00:13:57.000So you don't really get a jury of your peers and you basically get, oh, are you going to be facing six, seven charges that could completely destroy your life?
00:14:05.000Or do you want to plead to the one charge that might be like a slap on the wrist?
00:14:10.000And then you hope you can get back to some semblance of your normal life.
00:14:13.000Well, let me interrupt you there because I think this is where the pardon power is really going to be important because you had so many people who were confronting this avalanche of charges that you would normally never see applied to a circumstance like this and then people fearing really long incarceration periods Would plead to something for a diminished sentence or a diminished consequence.
00:14:40.000And now that is something that people are carrying with them.
00:14:43.000And I want to get to how you think a lot of folks might have been used as political pawns then.
00:14:49.000But I think that the only way to remediate the dynamic you're talking about, the power dynamic, where people pled guilty who never in their hearts believed they intended to commit a crime and certainly didn't want to violate federal criminal law, those people need to be remediated and restored.
00:15:04.000And I think that the pardon power could be used effectively by the next president to restore those folks.
00:15:13.000And Vivek Ramaswamy, as far as I know, is the only candidate that has promised to do so.
00:15:18.000I think maybe Donald Trump has alluded to that idea.
00:15:21.000I don't know if he has specifically said in so many words, but The reason why I talk about this now and we're aware of it now is because of the blatant political persecution that's been going down in what I think should be described as the Democrats' Reichstag moment, like the Nazis burned the Reichstag to blame on their enemies.
00:15:41.000Well, the Democrats either let January 6th happen or who knows, maybe they had the provocateurs in there.
00:15:46.000To get it to happen and then they use that to destroy their political opposition and ultimately they'd like to use that to destroy Donald Trump and everybody else is kind of just cannon fodder.
00:15:56.000It's like a never let a crisis go to waste moment for them where like people who had no men's rea to commit a crime had to be overcharged, had to be incarcerated because those people then became a symbol to others of danger and malcontent had to be incarcerated because those people then became a symbol to I can't believe we're applying those terms to like MAGA grandmothers who crossed over a barricade that was ripped down hours before by a Capitol Police officer.
00:16:28.000Is it your experience, because I know you've communicated with others who've been in these circumstances, that people understand that their case is potentially part of a broader mosaic of Democrats and the political left and the mainstream media to try to scare Americans and to try to make people think that anyone who is associated with the MAGA movement or for Second Amendment rights or who wants to build a wall or have paper ballots is some sort of extremist?
00:16:59.000Well, let me just tell you from my experience what it feels like.
00:17:03.000As a journalist, as a talk show host, I now have this looming cloud over my head in the back of my mind with everything I say.
00:17:14.000I mean, just coming on your show and talking to you, I can't help it.
00:17:17.000It's like an involuntary muscle movement.
00:17:20.000Maybe call it an involuntary thought process of self-preservation.
00:17:46.000I have to live with this now in the back of my mind that just for speaking and doing my journalistic duties that I'm going to end up in prison.
00:17:55.000And while this hurts me, I can't even imagine the next generation of Americans living like this.
00:18:00.000This is what it's like in North Korea.
00:18:01.000This is what it's like in China, where people are afraid to speak.
00:18:06.000Is this what the next generation of Americans is going to have to grow up with in the back of their mind?
00:18:13.000And, you know, again, I think it's worth mentioning here because I witnessed this.
00:18:17.000Not only do the people that are in there defending their political views realize that they're part of a larger picture of the Democrat Party trying to oust their political opposition by making examples of the people they're throwing in jail.
00:18:29.000on a much more broader scale and scope this is what the department of justice does to everyone Matt whether they're facing charges for one thing or the other this is what they do to everybody you know when you spoke at the BOP hearing with Miss Peters you know they're asking for two billion dollars and and you know I can understand where they're coming from they do have a problem with employment they do have a problem with staff and they do have a problem with their facilities I
00:19:00.000had to shower in showers that had black mold all over them But here's the thing.
00:19:04.000You and I both know that they could get $2 billion, they could get $20 billion, and nothing is going to improve in this system.
00:19:11.000What needs to happen, if they were serious, what needs to happen is they need to find out what a prisoner costs annually, Equate that to $2 billion and release that many people back to their families.
00:19:25.000Because most people got railroaded by this Department of Justice because justice is not their incentive.
00:19:38.000And what would be your message to those who are still carrying the weight of that with their own freedom being surrendered?
00:19:47.000I think about the vigils that are held outside the DC Gulag on a nightly basis and the people there who tragically are just trying to have a minute or a moment on the phone to believe that something better is going to emerge from all this.
00:20:06.000It's really hard to say anything because my sentence was mere inches compared to the miles of wrongful convictions that people like Enrique Tarrio or Joe Biggs or many others are facing.
00:20:21.000To say other than I would just like the American people to know that the one thing that helped me get through it in the worst times when I was thrown into the hole and disappeared.
00:20:30.000In fact, I was in jail for being a speech crime and then I got thrown inside the jail in the jail for speaking too.
00:20:38.000I can elaborate on that further if you would like.
00:20:40.000But, you know, what they need to know is that people on the outside still care about them.
00:20:45.000The letters that I received, the books that I received, was some of the most meaningful things that helped me get through some of the worst times when I was in solitary in there.
00:20:54.000And they just need to know that people haven't forgotten about them.
00:20:57.000They need to know that the American people's hearts and minds are still with them.
00:21:10.000And I've seen firsthand how people that have long time deal with it and there's highs and there's lows and there's good times and there's mostly bad times.
00:21:19.000But there's really nothing you can say to a man whose life has been stolen.
00:21:23.000There's really nothing you can say or do to a man who has been thrown in jail as a political prisoner by the Democrat Party.
00:21:50.000You know, Americans are out here still thinking about you.
00:21:52.000We're still trying to get your stories in front of Congress so that people can know what's going on.
00:21:57.000I mean, just that helps you get through the day.
00:22:00.000Just putting 20 bucks into their commissary fund so they can buy something at the store that isn't prison slop to eat.
00:22:07.000Get a shirt that isn't a gift from the BOP that comes with sweat stains or underwear that comes with poop stains.
00:22:15.000Just little stuff like that can help their time a little easier go by.
00:22:20.000But I mean, there's really nothing you can say to a man who's had his life ripped away and thrown in a hole wrongfully.
00:22:26.000There's really not much you can say, but there's some actions you can take to maybe at least make it a little easier on them while they're down.
00:22:31.000Undeniably, we need to take more action as Republican leaders to see that the violations of civil rights are remediated to the extent that you can at this stage of the game.
00:22:40.000And this is time that a lot of people aren't going to get back in the event that...
00:22:45.000I mean, you mentioned Enrique Tarrio wasn't in Washington, D.C. and has some multi-decade sentence.
00:22:54.000It's really something that appears more...
00:22:58.000Like what you'd see in an Orwellian novel than what you'd observe in a free country.
00:23:04.000Owen, how can people follow your journalism and your work as you continue to offer commentary and analysis on what's facing the country?
00:23:15.000And let me just make one more point before I do.
00:23:17.000When the FBI indicted me, there was a magistrate judge, Judge Faruqi, who issued a motion to the Department of Justice saying, hey, wait a second, you've just illegally charged a journalist.
00:23:29.000And Matt, I'm sure you're aware of this, but Barack Obama wrote special standards and procedures for charging a journalist.
00:23:35.000There's different hoops and things you have to do when you charge a journalist.
00:23:47.000They completely ignored it, even though everybody knows I'm a journalist.
00:23:50.000Now, thankfully, because I have been one of the most censored men in America, censored on all the mainstream social medias, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, everything else.
00:25:10.000Are they going to throw me in jail for going on air today?
00:25:13.000Are they going to throw me in jail because today I said that there's a Biden crime family that needs to have this impeachment inquiry going forward, which thank God the good Republicans in the House made move forward.
00:25:24.000You can find me on X. You can find me at band.video.
00:25:27.000You can also find me on rumble.com slash Owen.
00:25:29.000So really the response here, Matt, has to be like what you've done.
00:25:33.000And with your podcast, Firebrand, and even when you were going through all the swords and arrows coming after you for ousting Kevin McCarthy, which I think you did the right thing, in times like this, we have to take the bold steps.
00:25:47.000And at times like this, where people are trying to minimize you, you have to become a maximalist.
00:25:54.000Every one of us has a node of power that we can influence in American politics.
00:25:58.000And what the left is trying to do is they are trying to erode that, diminish that to the greatest extent possible.
00:26:04.000And I think that using people as pawns as part of this The grand January 6th narrative is a really dangerous feature of that, but we see features of it from the censorship to the demonetizing to the deplatforming.
00:26:18.000And you're right, the only way it works is that we band together and that we become maximalists.
00:26:25.000And there are more of us than there are of them.
00:26:27.000And I think they know it, and I think that's what frightens them the most.
00:26:30.000Owen, there were so many people that were concerned about you.
00:26:34.000They were watching this podcast and many others.
00:26:37.000And so many folks are glad to see that you're free now.
00:26:41.000And while it is a terrible thing that you had to go through, and it seems to be kind of littered with retaliation and retribution that is tied to constitutionally protected expression, you wonder, you know, like, Does God put us through these trials and tribulations so that we can be maximalists, so that we can go beyond it and help others?
00:27:02.000And certainly with the slings and arrows I've taken, I firmly believe that builds our calluses so that we're even more prepared for the next fight.
00:27:17.000I can't express my gratitude for all the care and concern and prayers for me while I was in.
00:27:23.000I will promise those people in your audience that I'm never going to give up in the good fight.
00:27:27.000And I won't speak for you, Matt, but I know that I'm sure you feel the same way as we're both fighting for the future of not just the United States of America, but really I see it as human freedom of existence on this planet.