Firebrand - Matt Gaetz - Episode 16: Mark Meadows Responds – Firebrand with Matt Gaetz

Former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows speaks with Rep. Matt Gaetz about the FBI's handling of death threats against him and other conservative members of Congress, and why the DOJ has a double standard when it comes to dealing with threats against conservative politicians and why they are treated differently than threats against other groups of Americans. Also, former Vice President Joe Biden and former Attorney General Michael Chertoff have been accused of a cover-up in order to cover up the fact that they are both responsible for the death of Rep. Steve Scalise, R-La., who was shot at a congressional baseball practice by a crazed Bernie Sanders supporter on June 14th, 2019. The charge has been dismissed by the Department of Justice as a "non-threat" and no charges will be brought against either of them, despite the evidence and the overwhelming likelihood that the threat was made by the Deep State and Joe Biden's handiwork to smear Rep. Gaetz and others as "anti-American" and "pro-Israelites." Join the conversation on social media by using the hashtag , and join the conversation using and on to help spread the word! about this firebrand conservative firebrand! Tweet Me! to let us know what you thought of this episode and what you think of it! and how you think about it in the comments section below! . Timestamps: 4:00 - Do you agree with this episode? 5: What do you agree or disagree with it? 6: Does it matter? 7:30 - Is it matters? 8:15 - What does it matter to you? 9:40 - How do you think it matters to you more? 11: Is it a good or bad? 14:00 15:00 | How should the FBI deal with these threats? 16: What is the difference between them? 17:10 - Is there a difference between a threat? 18:30 | What are they getting away with it or not? 19:10 | What do they should do with the evidence? 21:15 | What should they do with this information? 22: What would you do next? 25:10: What are you looking for? 26:40 | What is your response? 27:00 -- Is it possible to do about this? 29:30 -- Is this a crime?

00:00:01.000 The embattled Congressman Matt Gaetz.

00:00:03.000 Matt Gaetz was one of the very few members in the entire Congress who bothered to stand up against permanent Washington on behalf of his constituents.

00:00:10.000 Matt Gaetz right now, he's a problem in the Democratic Party.

00:00:13.000 He could cause a lot of hiccups in passing applause.

00:00:16.000 So we're going to keep running those stories to keep hurting him.

00:00:20.000 If you stand for the flag and kneel in prayer, if you want to build America up and not burn her to the ground, then welcome, my fellow patriots!

00:00:29.000 You are in the right place!

00:00:30.000 This is the movement for you!

00:00:32.000 You ever watch this guy on television?

00:00:35.000 Like a machine, Matt Gaetz.

00:00:37.000 I'm a canceled man in some corners of the internet.

00:00:40.000 Many days I'm a marked man in Congress, a wanted man by the deep state.

00:00:45.000 They aren't really coming for me.

00:00:47.000 They're coming for you.

00:00:49.000 I'm just in the way.

00:00:54.000 Welcome to Firebrand.

00:00:55.000 We have seen an explosion of subscriptions to the show on Rumble, on all podcast platforms.

00:01:02.000 And make sure if you're not subscribed, you sign up and join us and ensure that those notifications are turned on.

00:01:08.000 That means hit that little bell.

00:01:10.000 It ensures that you'll be here, part of the conversation for each and every episode.

00:01:15.000 Today, we have an exclusive, explosive interview with President Trump's former Chief of Staff, Mark Meadows, who also served in the United States Congress and has some very strong views about how Republicans need to address the fight we are currently in against the Democrats, against the Biden regime, the media.

00:01:35.000 And even some of those folks over at the Department of Justice who have been weaponized against those they don't agree with politically.

00:01:43.000 But first, it's always interesting to expose the double standards that exist, particularly when it comes to the safety of members of Congress.

00:01:53.000 Steve Scalise, my fellow congressman, was shot at congressional baseball practice by a mentally ill, CNN-obsessed Bernie Sanders supporter.

00:02:02.000 A little redundant, I know.

00:02:04.000 His recovery has been miraculous and inspiring.

00:02:08.000 A Democrat, Gabby Giffords, was nearly killed by a deranged lunatic before Steve.

00:02:13.000 We oppose political violence in the United States, regardless of the politics of the target.

00:02:18.000 It shouldn't happen to Scalise, AOC, Ted Cruz, or even Ilhan Omar.

00:02:24.000 But when death threats happen to Republicans, when they happened to me, they are often treated differently by a politicized Department of Justice.

00:02:35.000 To the DOJ, America First conservatives are second-class citizens, political dissidents, insurrectionists, the enemy.

00:02:43.000 Our fellow Americans.

00:02:44.000 I don't blame Joe Biden or even Merrick Garland.

00:02:48.000 The DOJ's double standard against conservatives?

00:02:51.000 Well, it existed under Trump and Attorney General Bill Barr, too.

00:02:55.000 I exposed the hypocrisy on Tucker Carlson's show all the way back on July 16th of 2019. Check this out.

00:03:05.000 Gates, you pathetic piece of s**t. 1.00

00:03:08.000 Do you know that I could blow your s**t? 1.00

00:03:12.000 Clean off your shoulders from over a mile away. 1.00

00:03:16.000 Watch your back, you pathetic little piece of. 1.00

00:03:20.000 You got your head so far up from. 1.00

00:03:23.000 I could still take it off your shoulders.

00:03:27.000 you Gates, I'm coming after you.

00:03:32.000 So that's about as clear-cut as it could be.

00:03:35.000 Those are threats.

00:03:36.000 They're a crime.

00:03:38.000 Here's the remarkable part.

00:03:39.000 According to Gates, the FBI has already identified the person you just heard, the person who threatened him.

00:03:44.000 But a federal prosecutor has decided not to bring charges.

00:03:48.000 Congressman Matt Gates of Florida joins us tonight.

00:03:50.000 Congressman, am I misstating any of that?

00:03:52.000 No.

00:03:53.000 I received word late last week that the U.S. Attorney's Office, where this individual lived, had reviewed the information and had deemed these messages, and I'm quoting directly, a non-threat.

00:04:05.000 It's obviously a crime, a federal crime, to make these types of threats against any federal official This year, we're on, not this Congress, I should say, we're on record for 10,000 threats against members of Congress.

00:04:19.000 And I condemn them, whether they're against Republicans, Democrats, liberals, conservatives, you know, this is just no way to operate within our country.

00:04:28.000 I just wonder, like, is it the fact that I've been a critic of some of the senior officials at the FBI that maybe leads to different treatment for the people who threaten me, as opposed to the people who actually get arrested, who have threatened Eric Swalwell, you know, Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib.

00:04:44.000 Those people actually get arrested, whereas when people threaten conservatives, I hope there's not a double standard.

00:04:50.000 But, I mean, you heard the messages, and there were even other messages where they threatened my family, Tucker.

00:04:58.000 Was never arrested.

00:05:00.000 Jurisdiction had been given to the United States Attorney in the Northern District of California.

00:05:06.000 They decided he was just blowing off steam.

00:05:09.000 The law says different.

00:05:11.000 18 U.S. Code Section 115A1B states, That whoever threatens to assault, kidnap, or murder a United States official, a United States judge, a federal law enforcement officer, or an official whose killing would be a crime under such section with the intent to impede,

00:05:28.000 intimidate, or interfere with such official judge or law enforcement officer while engaged in the performance of official duties or with intent to retaliate against such official judge or law enforcement officer on account of the performance of official duties.

00:05:45.000 Shall be punished as provided in subsection B. Killing me would of course be a crime.

00:05:52.000 But the threat itself is also a separate distinct violation of federal criminal law.

00:05:59.000 The Department of Justice simply doesn't seem to care.

00:06:03.000 I bet they would care if I were a prominent Democrat.

00:06:06.000 He didn't intend to actually kill you, deemed the U.S. Attorney's Office run by David Anderson in the Northern District of California.

00:06:15.000 I guess the US Attorney can read minds.

00:06:17.000 But nevertheless, he did intend to threaten me.

00:06:22.000 And that should have been the dispositive legal analysis.

00:06:26.000 Unless, of course, the target of the criminal threat is a critic of the Department of Justice.

00:06:31.000 I sure qualify there.

00:06:33.000 Then I guess the rules are different.

00:06:36.000 Whether it's Capitol protesters being held without bail or Republican congressmen being treated differently than their counterparts across the aisle, podcasters being indicted, or unequal enforcement of the law, we see these as norms today.

00:06:51.000 The DOJ actually stopped the arrest of another person who threatened to kill me even after the Capitol Police recommended his arrest.

00:07:01.000 I explained it on the floor of the House of Representatives here.

00:07:06.000 I thank the gentleman for yielding because I think someone may be trying to kill me.

00:07:10.000 And if they are successful, I would like my constituents and my family to know who stopped their arrest.

00:07:16.000 Madam Speaker, on October 8th, 2021, a Twitter handle styled CIA Bob is at your door tweeted to at Rep Matt Gaetz.

00:07:27.000 Looky here, pal.

00:07:29.000 I lived in Portland.

00:07:30.000 Portland has ordered a hit on you.

00:07:33.000 I accepted the contract.

00:07:35.000 Have a good day.

00:07:36.000 Following this tweet, this individual traveled to Washington, D.C., and the Capitol Police recommended his arrest.

00:07:44.000 That's information that was just shared with me by the Investigations and Threat Assessment section of the Protective Services Bureau, and specifically George DeCesso.

00:07:56.000 And George shared with me that the Capitol Police recommended the arrest of this individual, and that the Department of Justice Refuse to do so.

00:08:04.000 Decline to do so.

00:08:05.000 And on the eve of the Attorney General testifying before the Judiciary Committee tomorrow, it is just yet another example of the Department of Justice having a double standard.

00:08:15.000 If my name weren't Gates, if it were Omar or Tlaib, you bet this person would have been arrested because that's what the Capitol Police recommended.

00:08:24.000 But the Department of Justice doesn't seem to care so much when it's Republicans.

00:08:29.000 Adam Colbreth apparently has seen this podcast, the Welcome to the Woketopia episode.

00:08:34.000 You should actually go back and watch it.

00:08:36.000 It was the foundation of this tweet that he sent threatening to kill me and exclaiming that a contract had been issued on my life following that very episode.

00:08:48.000 Adam Colbreth traveled from Georgia to Washington, D.C. after threatening to kill me.

00:08:54.000 I wonder why.

00:08:55.000 Capitol Police recommended his arrest.

00:08:58.000 They intercepted him, but they were blocked by Assistant Attorney General Greg Rosen. 0.89

00:09:04.000 Rosen told Capitol Police that Culbreth was just mentally ill.

00:09:09.000 Guess he wasn't worried that those people could ever be radicalized to violence?

00:09:13.000 Oh wait, that's exactly what happened to Steve Scalise.

00:09:16.000 Washington Correspondents that the president and the vice president have now been informed of what have happened and you can see here What looks like, that looks like a member of Congress that I recognize, but we'll wait for confirmation.

00:09:31.000 We do have it, Nora.

00:09:31.000 We've told her the congressman who was shot in the hip has been identified as Steve Scalise.

00:09:35.000 He is the Republican House majority whip.

00:09:39.000 And as you can see there, it appears that they are medevac-ing him.

00:09:45.000 The Alexandria Fire Department and first responders are medevac-ing him to get And the shooting happened in the dugout of the baseball field.

00:09:54.000 And as of this time, we do not know the name of the shooter and his motive or intent.

00:09:59.000 A 2010 publication of Time magazine stated, quote, Some historians argue that the goal of the program was to create a mind control system by which the CIA could program people to conduct assassinations.

00:10:13.000 Now, we don't endorse the idea that such a program existed.

00:10:17.000 I simply don't know either way.

00:10:19.000 But it's worth noting that Time magazine is hardly part of what Hillary Clinton called the vast right-wing conspiracy.

00:10:26.000 And if the CIA was using people to commit assassinations, they probably wouldn't exclude from recruitment those who were mentally ill or unstable.

00:10:37.000 Andrew Culbreth then left D.C. after his arrest was blocked by Mr. Rosen at the Department of Justice, and he found himself in Langley, Virginia.

00:10:49.000 I wonder what he was doing in Langley?

00:10:51.000 Not a lot of people are just casually hanging out in Langley, Virginia.

00:10:56.000 Awful spooky.

00:10:58.000 Before a lot of people commit violence, they leave clues online.

00:11:03.000 Why is CIA in this guy's Twitter handle?

00:11:07.000 Did I mention he was traced by the Capitol Police to Langley?

00:11:13.000 Cold breath later traveled to West Point, New York.

00:11:15.000 He checked himself in and out of a mental institution quickly and I have no idea where he is today.

00:11:21.000 I sure hope this podcast doesn't get me killed by a mentally ill person or those who might be programming him. 1.00

00:11:29.000 Now, after I gave that speech on the floor, someone was arrested, but not Adam Kolbreth.

00:11:34.000 Isn't that interesting?

00:11:36.000 The FBI actually arrested a man named Eugene Ewellsman.

00:11:39.000 He's a five-time Emmy-nominated cameraman who has worked for the likes of CNN, ABC, and NBC. He threatened to kill me and told me to watch my kids.

00:11:53.000 Just a typical mainstream media weirdo and a dangerous one at that.

00:11:59.000 It's almost like they needed to show that they would arrest some people who threatened to kill me, but not Adam Culbreth, the mentally ill person with CIA and his Twitter handle who scurried off to Langley after being intercepted by Capitol Police in D.C. and being relieved of culpability by a politicized Department of Justice.

00:12:21.000 Unequal application of justice, depending on politics, or far worse.

00:12:27.000 We'll keep you posted.

00:12:29.000 And now, please enjoy this interview with President Trump's former Chief of Staff and my good friend, Mark Meadows.

00:12:39.000 I'm here with the chief's chief himself, my good friend Mark Meadows, reacting to all the exciting news about his upcoming book, The Chief's Chief.

00:12:47.000 Mark, it's great to be with you.

00:12:49.000 Start by just letting people know, is there a scene from your upcoming book that lays out the Trump leadership style?

00:12:55.000 Well, there is.

00:12:56.000 And I think for you and I, who got to see the president up close and personal, we got to see that side of him that, quite frankly, the cameras never pick.

00:13:06.000 But when you look at it, I've got one scene in there where he's got a whole bunch of his advisors sitting in front of the resolute desk.

00:13:15.000 You know, he essentially takes one person and he says, what's your opinion on that?

00:13:20.000 And he lets them espouse it.

00:13:22.000 And then he knows that this other person in the room, So Stephen Mnuchin, Peter Navarro, having two different points of view on China.

00:13:32.000 And so he says, well, Peter, what do you think?

00:13:35.000 Well, then a fight breaks out.

00:13:37.000 I mean, almost to the point where it makes me uncomfortable.

00:13:39.000 You've seen it before.

00:13:40.000 You've been in those Oval Office conversations where it actually, you know, the friction, you can feel it.

00:13:47.000 You can not only feel it, but you can taste it.

00:13:51.000 You can see it.

00:13:52.000 And yet, here was this friction.

00:13:54.000 He sits back and just watches the fight.

00:13:56.000 And you've been one that has been a friction.

00:14:01.000 You know, we talk about firebrand, but you've been the one who's created friction in the Oval.

00:14:07.000 To many of the advisors, you know, when I was serving as the chief, many times they didn't want to see Matt Gaetz there because Matt Gaetz would tell the president the truth.

00:14:18.000 And so that conflict goes back and forth.

00:14:21.000 We share how that works out, and then the president makes a decision.

00:14:25.000 He says, based on this information, let's make this decision, let's get it done, and let's get it done today.

00:14:30.000 And so that Trump-time kind of decision-making, and what I call creative chaos, because he creates a chaos and then makes order out of it, is something that was a thing to behold.

00:14:42.000 And it's not just about politics.

00:14:44.000 I think people will actually learn about management styles from your book, The Chief's Chief, because you really see in President Trump a leader who did not like sources of information to be constrained.

00:14:57.000 And other people who served as Chief of Staff to the President thought that their job was to manage the inputs and ensure that he only got the interactions or exposures that they curated for him.

00:15:08.000 And you had seemingly the exact opposite view.

00:15:11.000 You wanted to open up the president to different thoughts, perspectives, interpretations, because you knew he was really the central note of the government, right?

00:15:19.000 Well, he is, and he was the one that was elected the 45th president of the United States, and you and I were not.

00:15:25.000 And so when you look at that, you know, I can remember One of those times where you called and you said, you know, listen, the president needs to weigh in on this particular issue.

00:15:35.000 It was, you know, a legislative issue that was coming up.

00:15:37.000 I said, well, why don't you come over and tell the president?

00:15:40.000 And the interesting thing is people are not used to that, you know, where you have members of Congress where you've got direct input.

00:15:48.000 I was willing to give it.

00:15:50.000 But he wanted to hear from you.

00:15:52.000 What did Matt think?

00:15:53.000 What does Jim think?

00:15:54.000 What does Devin think?

00:15:55.000 So he actually wanted to hear that perspective directly.

00:15:59.000 In fact, if he thought you were going around him to try to manage his expectations, he could smell that a mile away.

00:16:10.000 Your relationship with President Trump wasn't all roses.

00:16:13.000 I remember when I first got here, you actually were leading the opposition against a very bad healthcare bill.

00:16:21.000 Jim Jordan called Paul Ryan's strategy the dumbest legislative strategy in history, and you actually had to serve as a ballast against some of the special interest influences in that bill.

00:16:34.000 How do you go from being somebody very opposed to the President on one particular matter to being quite literally his most trusted advisor?

00:16:43.000 Well, it's interesting.

00:16:45.000 You remember that time.

00:16:46.000 I remember that time.

00:16:47.000 Jim Jordan remembers that time.

00:16:49.000 I can remember being tweeted at, you know, and when you're tweeted at by the President of the United States, it makes you Twitter famous, but not necessarily in a good way.

00:17:00.000 And so, yeah, it was a tough time, but I think that goes back to your first question, Matt, is the way that President Trump gets information, he wants you to shoot straight with him.

00:17:12.000 He doesn't want it sugar-coated.

00:17:13.000 And what he respected is the fact that we had a particular position, We were willing to go against Paul Ryan.

00:17:20.000 We were willing to go against the Speaker of the House.

00:17:22.000 We were willing to say that Paul Ryan was leading him astray.

00:17:26.000 I've got one scene there in the book because it talks about that relationship.

00:17:30.000 Bucket one, bucket two, and bucket three.

00:17:32.000 You remember that because he says, well, in bucket one, we're going to pass these things that Paul Ryan did.

00:17:37.000 Bucket two was going to be the administrative fixes that the Secretary of HHS. And bucket three was going to be all those things we were going to be able to negotiate with the Democrats and get done.

00:17:49.000 But that's where the real savings came.

00:17:51.000 And I remember telling me, there's something in bucket three, but it isn't health care.

00:17:55.000 No.

00:17:55.000 And calling it like it is, he appreciates that.

00:18:00.000 And when you disagree with him, to let him know that.

00:18:04.000 But my disagreements with him oftentimes were in the privacy of a one-on-one conversation, not going out, leaking it to the Washington Post or whomever.

00:18:14.000 Mark, it really was interesting to many people that this brash New York business person could get along with this, like, genteels, you know, Highlands, North Carolina, Cashers, North Carolina, Southern gentleman.

00:18:27.000 But I think that the essence of your relationship is that you both understood real estate.

00:18:32.000 And development.

00:18:33.000 And Donald Trump really viewed a lot of the problems in government like a real estate deal.

00:18:38.000 You had to be willing to walk away.

00:18:40.000 You know, a win on something was better than sunk costs.

00:18:44.000 Seeing things for the opportunity that they presented rather than their status, you know, sort of moment in time existence.

00:18:51.000 Do you think that the fact that you and Donald Trump have both been real estate developers created a foundation for your relationship?

00:18:57.000 Well, it did.

00:18:57.000 It's interesting you say that.

00:18:59.000 We talked about real estate.

00:19:02.000 We still talk about real estate today.

00:19:06.000 Quite frankly, some of the deals he talked about, I was impressed with.

00:19:10.000 And I thought I had a pretty good foundation, but he talked about buying easements and things that he did.

00:19:17.000 And it was really impressive.

00:19:19.000 But it was not just real estate.

00:19:21.000 We could talk about Perry Mason because we both watched Perry Mason.

00:19:28.000 We could talk about Columbo.

00:19:29.000 Some of those, in fact, both of those you're watching reruns.

00:19:32.000 They were before your time.

00:19:33.000 But the interesting thing is that we had some of the same dynamics.

00:19:37.000 And when he brought So you boomer bonded.

00:19:40.000 We boomer bonded.

00:19:41.000 And you're the one that always remember, you always remind me about my boomer background.

00:19:47.000 Someone has to, Mark.

00:19:48.000 And you do.

00:19:49.000 And I tell you, it's not something that I can change.

00:19:52.000 So what you're going to do is just have to manage around that.

00:19:54.000 I'm sure it's not your only immutable trait that you'll have to apologize for.

00:19:57.000 You know, Mark, when you took this job as chief of staff, I think you were largely set up to come in and Build on the great economic successes of this presidency and this legislation on taxes, on deregulation that you helped craft in the Congress and you found a job that was very different than that which you likely expected because you take over right as this pandemic is being birthed onto the world from China. 0.99

00:20:24.000 How did the administration think of the pandemic in the early days and perhaps are there some unsung heroes Some folks that really were clarion voices that we should look back to now and say, gosh, that was a really patriotic and valuable contribution to the country.

00:20:38.000 You know, it's interesting because early on, I thought we were going to just cruise.

00:20:43.000 We had, listen, this China virus was a thing that, you know, is going to be beaten in a couple of weeks. 0.99

00:20:48.000 And even though the president had made some critical decisions in January before I took the job, you know, it was one of those, well, gosh, 15 days to slow the spread.

00:20:58.000 I can remember when I said, listen, if we close it for 15 days, how do we ever get it back open?

00:21:03.000 And here we are.

00:21:04.000 You know, over a year later, still trying to figure out how we can open up parts of our economy.

00:21:11.000 And yet there were some decisions that were made with Secretary Mnuchin and candidly, more importantly, the President of the United States that people don't realize.

00:21:22.000 There was about 21 days when the economy had been shut down.

00:21:28.000 That key decisions that were made by the President and by the Secretary of Treasury stopped us from being in a depression that we would still be in today.

00:21:38.000 Wait a second.

00:21:38.000 Your unsung hero of the coronavirus is Steve Mnuchin?

00:21:42.000 No, no.

00:21:43.000 It's Steve Mnuchin who got all the flexibility to create all the Fed policy he wanted for big business while a lot of folks on Main Street are suffering.

00:21:50.000 With all of that, let me push back just a little bit.

00:21:53.000 But what I'm saying there is that for 21 days, he was able to allow for policy that allowed that V-shaped recovery that we're talking about.

00:22:03.000 Now, in doing that, it couldn't be anything that was permanent.

00:22:07.000 It couldn't be anything that, quite frankly, we shouldn't be doing.

00:22:12.000 But flexibility at that particular point was the key aspect.

00:22:17.000 But the unsung hero, if you really want to look at it in real detail, You may have recalled early on they were talking about little pigs being killed and it was a little footnote.

00:22:32.000 If somebody Googles it today, they can find it.

00:22:35.000 But we have two different supply chains here in the country.

00:22:38.000 We have a supply chain that actually Supports restaurants and a supply chain that actually supports grocery stores.

00:22:46.000 Those two don't intermesh.

00:22:47.000 I didn't know that until we have this crisis where we're going to run out of chicken and pork and all of the proteins where we're going to have this.

00:22:56.000 So you know what the president did?

00:22:58.000 Mark, if that's going to be a problem, get them all on the phone.

00:23:01.000 Literally had the head of every single group on the phone negotiating in real time saying, we'll give you protection here, we'll give you protection there.

00:23:08.000 So the unsung hero throughout the entire process was a president that continued to make decisions based on information from other people.

00:23:18.000 The two unsung heroes, Donald Trump and Steve Mnuchin.

00:23:22.000 What about folks in the administration that maybe had a different type of impact?

00:23:26.000 As we have the benefit now of time, and you were right there in the room as these decisions were being made, are there people in the administration that polluted the thinking with bad advice or bad tactics?

00:23:38.000 I think you hit on this a little bit earlier.

00:23:41.000 What happens is there was a lot of people that really had a West Wing address that didn't really have the President's best interest at heart.

00:23:51.000 And by that, that's what I was most surprised about.

00:23:55.000 You know, if people ask me, what are you most surprised about?

00:23:57.000 I was most surprised that people would run to the press to leak things that one were not accurate but two even if they were accurate shouldn't be shared with the press should have been shared with the president of the United States but then the other part of that Matt that was was key when you start looking at some of these individuals it was all about their resume not about the president's accomplishments not about what we could get done it was about their resume and what job they would get done or get next and

00:24:27.000 so Wouldn't it have been easier to just tell everybody in the Trump administration, if you had any association with Trump, that the woke big corporations wouldn't hire you anyway, so you might as well use the time.

00:24:37.000 You might as well go ahead and use it to the benefit of the American people, because that was, in essence, what was happening.

00:24:43.000 You know, when I took the job as Chief of Staff...

00:24:46.000 So was Dr. Fauci a positive or a negative impact?

00:24:48.000 He was a negative impact.

00:24:49.000 Was Dr. Birch a positive or negative impact?

00:24:52.000 So they were negative impacts when it came to actually accomplishing.

00:24:55.000 I can remember getting a call from one governor that we happen to know.

00:24:59.000 And that governor called me and said, listen, I don't want any more help from Washington, D.C. on handling the coronavirus because the things that they're saying are not based in science and they're not based on what we're seeing in real time on the ground here in our state.

00:25:17.000 And said, please, keep your health in Washington, D.C. The book is The Chief's Chief, but I also hope that you reflect a little on your time in Congress.

00:25:26.000 You know, in Congress, I always said you were the best strategist at understanding where the puck was going, how we could meet the needs of the country.

00:25:35.000 What grade would you give Republican leadership in Congress now in combating the Biden administration?

00:25:42.000 They're not skating to where the puck is, and so I would give them a grade of a D. We might have Bidenflation, but there's no grade inflation from Mark Meadows.

00:25:53.000 You know me.

00:25:54.000 I believe that on this tactic and strategy, listen, you need to make Democrats take tough votes.

00:25:59.000 You need to make sure that when you've got them on the ropes, that you don't throw in the white towel of surrender.

00:26:08.000 And that's what's happened.

00:26:09.000 We saw it with the infrastructure vote.

00:26:11.000 You know, a few weeks ago, it's interesting.

00:26:13.000 13 Republicans jump across, give Biden a win, give Nancy Pelosi a win when she couldn't get to 18 on her own. 0.61

00:26:22.000 And here's the issue.

00:26:23.000 They think that they're going to get money.

00:26:25.000 I've looked at their congressional districts.

00:26:27.000 None of those people, none of them, That voted for this bill will get the majority of this money that's coming into $1.2 trillion.

00:26:35.000 Now, they can go home and say they got money for roads and bridges, but it didn't come into a theater near them.

00:26:43.000 It's sad even if it is, right?

00:26:45.000 I mean, it was really hard for me to vote against the NDAA. Of course it is!

00:26:50.000 When you have a base there in your home district and you love the military and you defend them.

00:26:55.000 You've defended them at times when I wouldn't even defend them and you were willing to do that, Matt.

00:27:00.000 But here's the thing is, when you're willing to put the interests of the American people first, And you're willing to vote and take a tough vote.

00:27:08.000 Listen, everybody can come up here and make easy votes, but when you take a tough vote, I mean, you need to take a tough vote for the right reason going forward.

00:27:17.000 And honestly, those 13 Republicans didn't do that.

00:27:20.000 And you have called for them to lose their positions of leadership.

00:27:24.000 And what shocked me after you made that announcement, I heard from almost every member of the Republican conference, folks' hair was on fire, but I was shocked at how many of the 13 hold positions of Oh yeah, of course.

00:27:36.000 They're the who's who of the establishment.

00:27:39.000 I mean, you're exactly right.

00:27:41.000 They actually have- So what does it mean if there is no punishment?

00:27:44.000 Because you and I have seen the case where everybody bangs their chest about how frustrated they are.

00:27:49.000 They go home, they go on a foreign trip, they come back to Washington, and it's on to the news of the day.

00:27:53.000 What does it mean if there is no consequence, no punishment?

00:27:56.000 Will we see it again?

00:27:57.000 We will see it again, and it means that there's no difference between Republicans ruling and Democrats ruling.

00:28:02.000 And that's a strong statement, but let me just say this.

00:28:05.000 Obviously, we want to make sure Republicans have the gavel. 0.95

00:28:08.000 We want to control a number of those things.

00:28:10.000 But here's the other part of it.

00:28:12.000 If you're always going to have You know, the dirty dozen, or at this point, a baker's dozen, actually go and side with the other team.

00:28:23.000 Then what's America, I can tell you, I heard from all over the country, they said, what in the world is going on?

00:28:28.000 We give them a win.

00:28:30.000 But it also talks about leadership.

00:28:32.000 If you're going to be the Speaker of the House, you've got to be able to control those members, and those members with particular positions of authority, and big money that comes from the NRCC, and I know you can't talk about that because we're here in your official capacity, but I'll talk about it.

00:28:48.000 When that money comes in, there shouldn't be a dime's worth of money going to those individuals if they're going to vote like Democrats.

00:28:55.000 Let the DCCC support them.

00:28:58.000 Strong leadership from the Chief's Chief.

00:29:01.000 Final question.

00:29:02.000 We see Biden's poll numbers collapsing.

00:29:05.000 We see his presidency collapsing.

00:29:06.000 We see a Democratic caucus that has no organizing principle because their only organizing principle before was that they hated Trump.

00:29:14.000 And he's playing golf down in Mar-a-Lago.

00:29:16.000 And playing well, by the way.

00:29:17.000 I would imagine.

00:29:20.000 But now we're starting to see Democrats, I think, try to escape their legislative failures by weaponizing the Department of Justice.

00:29:30.000 And one thing I noticed, when you were Chief of Staff, there was a liaison from the White House to the Department of Justice that was thrown out of the building.

00:29:38.000 And I continue to hear folks at the DOJ and their supporters say, well, the DOJ should be independent.

00:29:44.000 And, you know, I remember in high school I learned the three branches of government and I sort of thought the Department of Justice was a part of the executive branch of government, not its own fourth branch of government.

00:29:55.000 And so in the broadest possible terms, how should Americans think about the Department of Justice as an independent, runaway trained entity or as part of the executive branch?

00:30:06.000 Listen, it needs to be part of the executive branch.

00:30:08.000 Civics 101 would tell you that.

00:30:10.000 Civics 102, 103, all of them would say that, and yet we somehow have a different definition.

00:30:17.000 Part of that was born out of what you and I worked on early on, this whole Russia hoax and what happened with the FBI and DOJ at that point.

00:30:27.000 They thought they were independent.

00:30:28.000 Exactly.

00:30:29.000 They didn't think they worked for anybody under the Trump administration.

00:30:32.000 Everybody says, well, you know, now you've got Garland and it's a different thing.

00:30:36.000 But it sort of seems like maybe a different person is the attorney general.

00:30:39.000 But the operation of the Department of Justice in many ways has really never been part of the pull of gravity of the executive branch of government since Donald Trump won the nomination.

00:30:51.000 Well, without a doubt.

00:30:52.000 I think the other thing is there's a lot of fine people that work at the FBI and DOJ, career people that have done an outstanding job.

00:31:01.000 And what we've allowed is the media and a few people at the very top to pervert the way that we look at DOJ and FBI, but also the way that it And so we've got to make sure that the rule of law is exactly that, that Lady Justice has a blindfold on and that she's not peeking out from underneath that blindfold to figure out who's guilty or innocent. 0.96

00:31:26.000 Yeah, the only people wearing the blindfold these days are counting the ballots.

00:31:29.000 But look, the book is The Chief's Chief.

00:31:32.000 It is going to give folks not only a view of the Trump presidency you haven't seen before, but a view of leadership.

00:31:37.000 And I think that is precisely the type of leadership that we need to be able to access and mobilize for the benefit of our people.

00:31:44.000 Thanks for joining me, Mark.

00:31:45.000 Best of luck on The Chief's Chief and beyond.

00:31:48.000 Thanks so much.

00:31:49.000 Appreciate it, man.

00:31:51.000 Thanks for listening to Firebrand.

00:31:53.000 Make sure you're subscribed and you've got notifications turned on.

Firebrand - Matt Gaetz - November 18, 2021

Episode 16: Mark Meadows Responds – Firebrand with Matt Gaetz

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