In this episode, Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-GAZETTE) responds to a recent incident where a group of college Republicans were asked to stop soliciting for political candidates on campus. Rep. Gaetz explains why this is a problem, and why it needs to stop. He also responds to the Clemson University incident, and calls on the administration to clarify their own policies regarding political canvassing and soliciting. Firebrand is a production of the Firebrand Podcast, a conservative political podcast produced in Washington, D.C. and produced by Rep. Adam Kinzler and his staff. Firebrand's mission is to inform, educate, and empower Americans on the importance of free speech and stand up for the principles of American ideals. The Firebrand Project is a project of the Center for American Progress, a progressive organization dedicated to fighting for conservative causes and standing up to the political establishment. We do not tolerate bullies, and we particularly don t tolerate it when it constrains free speech, and on college campuses, we ve seen an increasing number of administrators try to skirt the law, avoid the Constitution, and limit what can be said that we would normally allow, particularly if it's someone expressing a viewpoint on the political right. So who should I call the shots here at Clemson University? Who should I go to the table? And who should be the one to make the stand up to them? and speak up for them? And what should they do about it? And what they would be better meant to do about this issue? What would you be better than the other side of the law and what they should be allowed to do in the future? or not? Listen in on this episode of Firebrand, and tweet us what you think of this? ? Tweet us and let us know what you would like to hear from the firebrand? in the comments section about it! in a future episode, and what do you think about this episode? of this episode on Firebrand or any of your thoughts on this one? Tweet Meghan and I will be responding to this episode! or your thoughts about this one, or any other firebrand moment you ve seen in the next episode of the latest Firebrand piece? on the latest episode on this podcast? I ll be back with your thoughts, tweet me if you have any thoughts?
00:02:51.000We're broadcasting live out of room 2021 of the Rayburn House office building here in the Capitol complex in Washington, D.C. And here in the Gates office, we do not tolerate bullies.
00:03:02.000We particularly don't like it when it constrains free speech, and on college campuses, we've seen an increasing number of administrators try to skirt the law, avoid the Constitution, and really limit what can be said that we would normally allow, particularly if it's someone expressing a viewpoint on the political right.
00:03:20.000The executive producer of this podcast, Joel Valdez, our communications director, Actually, I think kind of came to us by virtue of the free speech on college campus movement.
00:03:32.000And, you know, Joel, I'm going to get into that in a minute.
00:03:34.000But the latest iteration that got in my craw, I saw it online, was at Clemson University, where a group of students associated with the Clemson College Republicans were out campaigning for a congressional candidate in an open seat.
00:03:49.000And they had this encounter with administrators to listen.
00:06:01.000You are violating Clemson University policy and as students you do have to abide by those rules and there are penalties and consequences for not.
00:06:15.000So I'm going to just be honest with you.
00:06:18.000The rightness report is going to be all set in the standards.
00:06:22.000And then you have to make sanctions for the university.
00:06:38.000Well, I have it down, but I wanted to ask about if we take away the signs, because from what I heard, the issue was that we didn't have, is that we had signs.
00:07:25.000I mean, you had two goofballs dressed up in their white zip-up hoodies as university officials.
00:07:31.000On their golf carts, they rolled up and they were contradicting themselves at first.
00:07:35.000One of them said, We could take down our signage for a congressional candidate here in the 3rd District, Stuart Jones, who we're canvassing for.
00:07:44.000If we took down the signs, we could stay there.
00:07:46.000And then the other gentleman said we had to pack up and leave.
00:07:50.000So obviously with that contradiction, we were like, we're not backing down.
00:07:55.000This is obviously attacking our First Amendment right.
00:08:04.000I challenged him along with my secretary, Jane Keeney, and we got the police involved and the police officer clearly didn't know what he was talking about either.
00:08:12.000But someone in the athletics department told us to leave and sent those two bozos to kick us out.
00:08:18.000So that's how it I'm just wondering, before you assembled this group to go and engage in First Amendment protected activity, did you research the rules and know them, or was it just the fact that it was so obvious that they didn't know the rules that really emboldened you to push back?
00:08:43.000Well, we didn't need to know the rules because we've been doing it for a long time.
00:08:47.000We did a lot of canvassing for the Trump campaign with door knocking.
00:08:50.000We've been tabling before outside of games.
00:08:52.000We tabled for the Trump campaign back in October, I believe, before a game, literally 100 feet from that spot.
00:08:59.000But I think the problem was, is we got a very good spot for tabling this time, right at the intersection in front of the stadium scoreboard.
00:09:08.000And I think someone in athletics was like, we can't have that.
00:09:11.000We can't have these Campus conservatives out here doing what they need to do for political candidates.
00:09:30.000Joel, I want you to give the audience a brief description of how you've been on the front lines of the free speech wars on college campuses.
00:09:37.000But what I admired so much about what I saw at Clemson is that these students were respectful, they were knowledgeable, but they stood their ground.
00:09:47.000I think a lot of people in that situation, at the first sign of someone in a Law enforcement uniform showing up would have quivered and sort of skulked away.
00:09:59.000And these folks really, I think, inspired a lot of folks with the video that we saw online.
00:10:05.000Trevor and the Clemson College Republicans are rock stars.
00:10:09.000And my journey into DC starts with having my free speech stifled on my college campus at the time.
00:10:16.000So whenever it comes to the issue of university free speech, that's an issue that hits very close to home for me.
00:10:23.000When I was a freshman at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign in the fall of 2017, I was actually part of two clubs.
00:10:30.000I was part of Turning Point USA's chapter at UIUC, and I was also acting as an Illinois campus correspondent for Campus Reform, which is a journalism project of the Leadership Institute that reports on the front lines of Liberal bias and abuses on college campuses.
00:10:49.000And so what had happened in my case is there was a university professor who was protesting, having a protest on campus one year after Trump's inauguration on campus.
00:11:02.000This is one of the guys who waves one of the biggest Antifa flags on campus.
00:11:06.000I thought as a student journalist it would be interesting to see what this professor paid by the public university was saying during school hours on school grounds.
00:11:17.000I just went to the back and we made waves on the campus as we had done activism for Turning Point.
00:11:24.000They already knew our names and some of our And when I was going to report, this professor in particular had singled me out and singled out my crew who was recording to try and assault us on campus, try to stop us from reporting on what he was saying because he knew that we were effective on college campus at getting the abuse out on Fox News, on Daily Wire.
00:11:47.000On some of the Turning Point programming.
00:11:50.000And so this guy literally charged me and my cameraman trying to assault us on campus, trying to stop us from reporting.
00:12:00.000They ended up giving us multiple disciplinary measures throughout the months leading up to them telling me that I could no longer re-register for classes and that I would be effectively be kicked out of the university for acting as a campus journalist and so that led me to suing my university for nearly two years before closing the case which later on President Trump in the White House had actually highlighted my free speech case against the university and so I give big props to Trevor and the Clemson College Republicans Because
00:12:31.000I personally know what it's like to try to keep your composure, try to get everything that's happening on video, and then following up with action.
00:12:38.000And it's very difficult when you have university officials and the police in your face telling you that you're wrong when they can't even give you the definition of soliciting.
00:12:47.000So it was an astonishing case on your end, and I'm glad you guys stood up for yourselves.
00:12:52.000Do you fear retaliation from the university for this type of activism and for pushing back, or do you get the sense that you've got a vice president for student affairs that seems to have taken your side in this?
00:13:03.000Yeah, yeah, so I'll speak to him a little bit.
00:13:06.000He's done a fantastic job in promoting free speech on campus.
00:13:10.000This is not the first controversy the college Republicans at Clemson have been a part of.
00:13:14.000We've called out the drag show in the past, and most recently we got Feminine products and tampons removed from the men's bathrooms on campus, and we got a bunch of backlash from the socialists on campus, the blue hairs, you name it.
00:13:29.000So they have actually supported us in our free speech efforts, and they have done nothing to curtail that whatsoever.
00:13:37.000But this is a symptom of a different issue.
00:13:40.000Clearly, someone in athletics has a problem with freedom of speech on our end.
00:13:44.000And I hate that it umbrellas the entire university because I think the university has been very good on free speech on our end.
00:13:51.000But they still, the athletics department and the police do need to apologize for this because it's absolutely asinine that they tried to kick us out for simply canvassing and using our First Amendment right.
00:14:03.000Well, are you seeking any sort of response from the athletics department or the university at large regarding this episode and the consequences that should come to whatever administration officials tried to act in this unconstitutional way towards you and your club?
00:14:23.000I am seeking a public written apology from both the athletics department and the police department.
00:14:28.000For not only our club, but for also the clubs nationwide, the other conservative organizations, and also this is nonpartisan.
00:14:35.000This is freedom of speech, so it could be Democrats as well.
00:14:38.000You should be able to use your freedom of speech anywhere you please outside at a public institution like this at Clemson.
00:14:45.000And it should set a precedent for these other schools that we're going into election season and everyone should have the right to canvas outside of these types of events.
00:14:53.000So I would like this public apology to be used as sort of inspiration for other schools to just simply use freedom of speech policy that we all know and love and implement it everywhere.
00:15:04.000So I'm seeking for a public apology from both departments, and I have yet to get anything back from them yet.
00:15:12.000At the very least, I wanted an apology from my university and from the unhinged professor who attempted to assault me on camera, but instead I got threatened with endless disciplinary action and eventually got kicked out of school.
00:15:23.000Are there any kind of remedies or specific changes in university policy that you would like to see from Clemson to ensure that this kind of harassment never happens again?
00:15:32.000Yeah, well, I mean, it kind of starts with, you know, teaching these university officials because I was told that the two gentlemen that first arrived were subcontracted by the university.
00:15:42.000It's still under the jurisdiction of the university.
00:15:44.000They still hired them on as event staff.
00:15:48.000And Summit Athletics told them to kick us out.
00:15:52.000So therefore, Summit Athletics needs to be taught what is protected and what isn't.
00:15:58.000And what our speech was, was freedom of speech.
00:16:01.000It's canvassing for political candidates.
00:16:04.000And that's something they should just know.
00:16:07.000And I don't know if it needs to just be beat over the head with these people.
00:16:11.000The police officer clearly didn't know what he's talking about either, so the police department needs to do a better job at educating their officers on specific policies regarding this.
00:16:19.000Because what this is, the reason why it blew up is it's a form of intimidation, and it does not look good on anyone's part to kick a bunch of college students out for activism like this, and that's why it blew up.
00:16:32.000So I just don't want it to happen in the future.
00:16:35.000But I will say on the appeals process in which we got reported to the glorified principal's office, as I call it, called the Office of Community and Ethical Standards, we went straight to the top through Chris Miller and he exonerated us of all wrongdoings, me and my secretary, because we did nothing wrong.
00:16:55.000So the appeal process works and it's just the matter of what actually happened happened and I don't want it to happen again.
00:17:03.000I think this is going to happen again all over the country, actually.
00:17:07.000I think it's been happening, and I think that oftentimes it's the conservatives that have to be the dissident-resistant voice on college campuses.
00:17:18.000Advice to other conservatives on college campuses who want to express a viewpoint, who might face a hostile administration, Now that you've been through that, you seem to have come out the other side quite successful in convincing the administration that this conduct is allowed and the behavior that was directed against you should be disallowed.
00:17:38.000But give us your advice from the trail.
00:18:06.000People need to be held accountable in the public sphere.
00:18:09.000And what I would encourage young conservatives to do is if they encounter anything like this, to record it, to do whatever they need to do, to put it out there to social media, because you can only talk about it so much to your inner circle and people around the university.
00:18:22.000No one's actually going to believe you unless you have the physical evidence and showing that to people.
00:18:49.000You just got to have thick skin and just push through it.
00:18:51.000And what I love is the contrast at the thoughtfulness and the respect that was shown when conservatives were having this interaction.
00:18:59.000And imagine if this had been a bunch of genderless, purple-haired, woketopians.
00:19:05.000You know, they'd have been trying to assault the police officer.
00:19:08.000They would have been ranting and raving, and there was a discipline there and really a maturity that is admirable and I think central to the success of this moment for your club.
00:19:19.000Joel, what advice would you give conservative activists on campus about how to endure these moments?
00:19:24.000Yeah, no, I think Trevor nailed some of the key points on that.
00:19:27.000Get everything on camera from all angles, as many cameras as you can.
00:19:32.000Definitely understand how you're being perceived on camera and how you can use that in follow-up action.
00:19:38.000But also, I think on social media, you got a lot of backup from a lot of good people.
00:19:45.000And so hopefully that these members in the College of Clemson Republicans can see that courage is contagious.
00:19:54.000Insane reaction to me exposing one of their faculty professors spooked a lot of members from doing future activism when they saw how hard they came down on us.
00:20:04.000It did take a few years to eventually see that there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
00:20:09.000Hopefully from seeing how you stood your ground, how your members are standing your ground, and the backup that you're getting that hopefully, you know, like you said, have tough, have thick skin, but at the same time know that there is going to be some backup from some of the fighters.
00:20:24.000I'm interested in your reaction, Trevor.
00:20:26.000What kind of a reaction have you gotten from some of your fellow college Republicans on campus after this?
00:20:35.000We enjoyed the adrenaline rush that it kind of gave because it showed a lot of people too.
00:20:41.000We have a lot of young freshmen in our club right now and they haven't really experienced, you know, what it actually means to be a conservative on a college campus and sometimes you have to deal with this stuff.
00:20:51.000And I thought everyone handled it so perfectly because when that police officer was asking for my driver's license and my secretary's driver's license, He could have kept going down the chain until I stepped up.
00:21:23.000They've been phenomenal all year with not only tabling for this, but tabling for pro-life issues.
00:21:30.000Immigration, you name it, they've been absolute workhorses, so credit to them.
00:21:36.000But in terms of the response from other people, I mean, the College Republicans, the Turning Point chapter here at Clemson, they've been all supportive.
00:21:45.000I mean, everything that happened was totally ridiculous and asinine, like I said.
00:21:49.000So everyone's in our corner, even the parents, too.
00:21:52.000You got a lot of angry parents sending emails and phone calls to the athletics department, the police department.
00:21:58.000And that's what we need, honestly, because That's what it's going to take.
00:22:01.000You've got to twist the arms of these people because they need to issue a public apology and it's going to take people calling their office and letting them know that Hey, this is wrong.
00:22:10.000I never thought I'd see a story come out of Clemson University like this.
00:22:14.000I expected it at UC Berkeley in California.
00:22:18.000I expected it on liberal college campuses like my own, but I didn't expect it from Clemson University.
00:22:23.000Does it surprise you that your university attempted to shut down your freedom of speech?
00:22:28.000And why do you think that these officials were so locked in on you guys specifically?
00:22:33.000I want to say it is a political sway by someone in the athletics department.
00:22:38.000I think they saw us outside of a spring game that was pretty successful, right outside of their scoreboard.
00:22:44.000And they were like, we can't be having that.
00:23:31.000I think the lesson is there are these tyrants on every college campus.
00:23:36.000Now, they might not be in charge of every area and they might not ultimately prevail when there's a good appeal process and review process, but if this can emerge at Clemson, It could emerge in the Bible Belt, in the Deep South, anywhere, and that's why it requires vigilance.
00:23:52.000And it's also why it requires consequences.
00:23:55.000I don't think it's sufficient for the university to address this issue simply by stating that Clemson College Republicans did nothing wrong.
00:24:04.000I think Clemson University needs to specifically remediate with the individuals that made these decisions And any policy that was vague or unclear that was relied upon to have this deeply tortured interpretation of the law.
00:24:18.000So I wanted you to know, Trevor, that my office is sending a letter to the president of Clemson University, President Clemens, and we're politely asking for the information regarding the people who were involved, their employment, for which offices they work, for which offices they work, and what affirmative steps Clemson is taking to ensure that staff comport with the First Amendment.
00:24:42.000And I think that your call for a public apology would be an obvious step that one could take to ensure that the right message is sent to all the staffs.
00:24:51.000So we'll be sending this letter to Clemson University today.
00:24:54.000I think it is very unfortunate that this event happened in the first place, but we cannot allow it to just exist as a viral moment on social media.
00:25:04.000It has to be a teaching moment for precisely the reason Joel said, because this is spreading like kudzu, this desire to limit speech.
00:25:14.000I'm eager to get your reaction to that, and I've got a few more questions for you about South Carolina politics.
00:25:22.000I mean, I think that's awesome, and this information does need to be shown to the public, and we need to know who did this and who signed off on it, because clearly, like I said, it's symptomatic of that kudzu, like you were talking about, infecting even a more right-wing institution, as you'd call it, at Clemson.
00:25:41.000And yeah, we need to get more information about that because it's totally ridiculous.
00:25:46.000And this is not the only campus it happens on.
00:25:49.000I mean, we're umbrellaed under the College Republicans of America.
00:25:53.000There's chapters in the Northeast and other crazy liberal places that deal with this stuff all the time.
00:26:00.000And having that organization have all these college Republican chapters together, working together in terms of social media and just general support is so helpful.
00:26:11.000Congressman Gates, that is an awesome letter.
00:26:13.000I do appreciate you sticking up for us on this behalf.
00:26:17.000And I am hearing that there may be officials at Clemson University watching this very podcast right now.
00:26:24.000Can you talk a little bit more about that, Trevor, and if you've heard any information on the response?
00:26:30.000So, I mean, the university is clearly watching this right now because, I mean...
00:26:36.000This is bad PR for them, and bad PR means money.
00:26:40.000It means a lot of things are going wrong on their end, which is unfortunate because, like I said, I like Clemson University, but this is the problem that was created under them, and they have to answer for it.
00:26:52.000So if President Clements and Vice President of Student Affairs, Chris Miller, are watching, I mean, this is something that we would like, not only as just conservatives, but as a student body, we do need answers for this, and we do need a public Statements about this at a minimum.
00:27:09.000You know, if they're watching, I do encourage that to be done.
00:27:12.000And while this was an unfortunate event, I actually think that this can turn into a very positive experience.
00:27:19.000If the reaction to this is thoughtful and thorough and very clear, then I actually think Clemson could come out of this looking pretty good if instead this is ignored, this is treated as well, you know, students should just, you know, respect when anyone else tells them what to do.
00:27:38.000Then that is going to metastasize and then those negative consequences that you talk about will grow more severe unnecessarily.
00:27:45.000I think that the apology is an important thing.
00:27:48.000But I do want to zoom out since I have you here and you've been on the front lines of this fight.
00:27:53.000I would love you to share with our audience what issues you find.
00:27:58.000Are animating college Republicans and young conservatives.
00:28:02.000We see on the broad issue matrix immigration leading the way, certainly the price of goods.
00:28:07.000But what are you hearing about from your members and other folks that are driving really a lot of generational shift in people under 30 toward more conservative policies and conservative causes?
00:28:20.000Well, you mentioned immigration, and that is the number one issue that I've talked to college Republicans, Turning Point members about.
00:28:27.000And it's huge because it's changing the voter demographic rapidly.
00:28:32.000So that's going to affect us down the road.
00:28:34.000Are we going to win elections with this specific issue?
00:28:38.000But also affecting South Carolinians as a whole, I-85 runs through Atlanta to Charlotte, which also cuts through the upstate of South Carolina, which is right where we're placed, our university is placed.
00:28:49.000And that's where a lot of drugs are ran through, a lot of gang activity, you know, from the border.
00:28:55.000And if we don't shut that down, it's going to start.
00:29:59.000What issues do you think are driving that?
00:30:01.000Yeah, well, I think aside from just from immigration, which is obviously a big issue, I think the students are starting to see the bleak future of the economy and jobs in general.
00:30:12.000I think now that their college degrees are being extremely diluted, and they're getting this rude awakening that it's becoming very hard to get a job after this promise of going to college for four years.
00:30:23.000That promise has now been broken to the Gen Z generations.
00:30:27.000And they're seeing less money in their wallets, and that's being reflected From the folks who are just entering the job force for the first time.
00:30:36.000So I think some of these economic experiences under Joe Biden has definitely created a bleak future in which they are going back to the years of prosperity that we saw under President Trump.
00:30:47.000So I think that's going to be a big factor coming up.
00:30:50.000Undeniably, I think these economic conditions are leading Gen Z to maybe a different place than the younger millennials who stayed living with their parents.
00:30:58.000This new version of Gen Z actually starts looking at, hey, I might want to buy a house one day.
00:31:04.000You won't be able to with these interest rates.
00:31:06.000Trevor, I also wanted to ask you a question about the Palmetto State.
00:31:09.000You know, South Carolina gave President Trump this overwhelming victory, basically drives Nikki Haley out of the race.
00:31:17.000I thought your analysis on the I-85 thing was really good.
00:31:21.000Are there other things in South Carolina that people around the country might want to know about?
00:31:27.000Yeah, so a lot of people would think that South Carolina's ruby red, which it is.
00:31:32.000But the state legislature does not reflect that.
00:31:36.000Actually, CPAC, the American Conservative Union, rates South Carolina as the second most liberal Republican supermajorities in the country.
00:31:45.000And that's because we have a lot of rhinos in our state legislature that say they're Republican and conservative, but they vote a different way or push through these ridiculous bills that are It's basically ironed out by the Chamber of Commerce, and they basically dictate a lot of what happens in South Carolina.
00:32:03.000And so I think there needs to be a big push at creating the Freedom Caucus, making it larger in South Carolina and states abroad, because what we have is just a good old boy system in South Carolina.
00:32:16.000It's been absolutely destroying our state for years, and it's been a lot of watered-down bills that could have been way more conservative.
00:32:26.000And I see states like your state congressman, Florida, that are passing extremely conservative legislation, and we can't even get a constitutional carry bill passed and a good pro-life bill passed because of the rhinos in the state legislature.
00:32:40.000So there's been a big push on our end to get a lot of these people that are actually conservative elected.
00:32:46.000So we're doing a lot of work on our end with door knocking, canvassing, like we did this past Saturday, to fix that.
00:32:54.000So I encourage people in their own state to try and push for more Freedom Caucus members to join their state legislature.
00:33:02.000With our primary, it's June 11th, but it could be different in other states.
00:33:06.000So definitely latch on to someone you believe is conservative and run with it, because that's how you make a change.
00:33:14.000Yeah, and I want to ask you this question because it's something I struggle with.
00:33:17.000I get all these candidates from all over the country that become very interested in wanting to align with a bill that we've sponsored or some event or opportunity.
00:33:44.000They're willing to take chances to secure the border.
00:33:46.000And then they get here, and at the first sign of criticism, or at the first moment where you've got to use a little leverage or take a little criticism...
00:34:00.000When you talk to someone and decide whether or not you're going to go out there and sweat on a Saturday afternoon and talk to folks on their way into a Clemson football game, how do you know they're worth it?
00:34:10.000What are the issues and what are the tells that you look for the most?
00:34:14.000Obviously, we know Joel doesn't know how to pick well.
00:34:30.000Followthemoney.org is also a good website that we use to vet candidates because that's who is going to be reflecting what they believe, is who's giving them money.
00:34:39.000If it's more grassroots people, that's who I'm in favor for because that's representing the people of South Carolina and abroad.
00:34:46.000But if they're getting money from big super PACs and lobbyists, there's a big problem with lawyer legislators in this state that dictate a lot of stuff, and that's a whole other issue.
00:35:34.000I was not expecting you to give that answer.
00:35:36.000I thought you would say a particular issue set or a way that somebody made their presentation.
00:35:41.000You go right to the dollars and cents.
00:35:44.000And frankly, that's probably as good a system as any because we see people up here that kowtow to their donors and subject the interests of their constituents.
00:35:53.000You got a better vetting strategy, Joel?
00:35:55.000Yeah, mine was a little bit easier beforehand.
00:36:06.000If you're trying to hire Joel away from me to run your podcast, those are the questions you may have to answer.
00:36:12.000Well, Trevor, we wish you and all of your club members the best of luck.
00:36:16.000We're going to keep you updated regarding the responses we get from Clemson.
00:36:19.000We're sorry you had to do that, but actually I think it's a shining example of how to respond With maturity and with grace and with knowledge.
00:36:28.000And my hope is that a lot of different students at Clemson and beyond see this, that they join your club, that they're right there alongside you, and that you guys are able to have a great opportunity for free speech.
00:36:41.000Also, always thank Joel for pulling double duty, producing this podcast and joining me again as a guest.
00:37:19.000Going on in the conservative space for young people on college campuses.
00:37:23.000So definitely we'll keep you posted on stuff on our end because I don't envision this being the only time we are involved in controversy.
00:37:31.000Well, I hope the next time we have you on it's to talk about your great insights about the shape of the electorate and the issues motivating people and less because you're being harassed.