In this episode, Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-GA) and Rep. Andy Ogles (D-TN) discuss the Democratic foreign aid bill that passed the House of Representatives on a party-line vote and is now heading to the Senate for consideration. They also discuss why the bill failed to get enough Republican votes to pass and why the House should have voted no on the bill in the first place. They are joined by Rep. Ana Paulina Luna (D, FL) and Andy Ogels (R, TN) to discuss the vote and what the next steps are for the bill and the future of the bill. Subscribe to Firebrand to get immediate access to all new episodes and listen in as they are broadcast live from the Rumble Studios in Washington, D.C. Firebrand is a production of the Center for American Progress and is produced by Forward, a political action committee dedicated to electing conservative candidates to the 2020 Republican presidential primary, and fighting for the principles of the Constitution and the rule of the American people. The Firebrand Team is comprised of conservative firebrands, firebranders, and firebrand ideologues who are willing to speak truth to power and speak out against the lies told to them by the establishment media and big money interests in order to get their message out there and make a voice heard by the people who care about what matters. Firebrand's message is loud, clear, and unapologetic in the American public, and it s loud and loud, and loud and clear and loud! and we hope you listen to the firebranding and share it everywhere you do it! Thank you for listening and share what you think of it! Tweet us . and tweet us what you're listening to us! and if you think it's great! or share it on your thoughts on it on social media! Timestamps: 1:30 - What's your favorite part of the episode? 2:00 - What do you think about it? 3:15 - How do you would vote no? 4:40 - What would you vote No? 5:35 - What should we do next? 6: What's the worst piece of legislation you've seen me vote on? 7: Is it better? 8:00 9:30 - What s your biggest takeaway from the story? 11:10 - What are you looking forward to the next step?
00:02:42.000We are broadcasting live from the friendly confines here at the Rumble Studios in Washington, D.C. I'm going to be joined by two of my colleagues to go over the work of the day.
00:02:51.000And there was a foreign aid bill largely constructed by Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell some months ago.
00:02:57.000It was the globalist dreamboat of ideas, everything from funding research and development in other countries to a quarter of a billion dollars for the World Bank.
00:03:08.000And a whole lot of money for Ukraine, not just money for lethal munitions in the fight, but the funding of the Ukrainian government, about $14 billion worth.
00:03:19.000And in the House of Representatives at the time, it received a very chilly reception.
00:03:23.000We were more worried about the southern border.
00:03:25.000We were worried about America's growing bureaucratic nightmare and what we had to do to constrain that.
00:03:31.000And many of us were deeply concerned about spending, seeking a process that would present single subject spending bills over the typical continuing resolution omnibus structure.
00:03:41.000So, we find ourselves today taking up this foreign aid bill.
00:03:45.000And here's what they don't teach you in social studies class.
00:03:48.000Whenever a piece of legislation of major import is considered before the House of Representatives, before it is considered, it has to be a subject to terms and conditions.
00:03:59.000Just like your iPhone is subject to terms and conditions, Every major bill we consider that can pass by a majority vote would have terms and conditions applied.
00:04:09.000Those would include things like how long is each side going to get to present debate?
00:04:16.000What type of amendments will be allowed?
00:04:17.000In some cases, which specific amendments can be allowed?
00:04:20.000The rules discuss when the legislation will be voted on and indeed when it will be sent to the united states senate for their consideration so there's a lot of things that can be built into those terms and conditions and in the end you have to vote on those and that is called the rule vote so you're going to hear my colleagues and i today discuss how we voted on the rule what we believed is that this foreign aid bill It was so America last and so bad,
00:04:46.000we should reject the terms and conditions to proceed on to that bill.
00:04:51.000And they weren't good terms and conditions, by the way.
00:04:53.000They took the single subject bills that we cared about and they lashed them together for ease of passage in the United States Senate.
00:05:00.000And those terms and conditions didn't allow for a lot of the Republican conservative cost-saving amendments that we care about.
00:05:08.000So here to discuss Where we go from here, how we're going to proceed onto this foreign aid bill where the terms and conditions passed.
00:05:15.000Two great firebrands, my colleague from Florida, Ana Paulina Luna, and my colleague from Tennessee, Andy Ogles.
00:05:27.000Just your reaction to how the rule vote went today.
00:05:30.000We voted no, and yet it overwhelmingly passed with Democrats.
00:05:34.000Well, I mean, I think that's the important point, is that this is a Democrat piece of legislation, because you had more Democrats voting for it than Republicans.
00:05:41.000And so this is the Schumer, Biden, Johnson bill that unfortunately, I think, betrays the American public.
00:05:49.000Because we have a southern border that's wide open.
00:05:52.000Fentanyl is a crisis that's touching all of America.
00:05:54.000You could have had a Ukraine bill that had maybe remaining Mexico in it.
00:06:09.000You've been messaging that conservatives should vote no.
00:06:12.000I thought it was helpful that groups like the Heritage Foundation and Club for Growth key voted this issue, asking conservatives to vote no.
00:06:20.000At the end of the day, fewer Republicans voted for this rule than Democrats.
00:06:28.000You know, I look at this and I think a lot of the Republicans that would typically vote for a rule, one of their biggest concerns that I kept hearing, and some of those were vets, is that this rule, these bills, funded both sides of what's happening right now with Israel and Hamas.
00:06:42.000And so if you're looking at it from that perspective, you know, I don't think it was by accident.
00:06:46.000Even last night, we had a reporter reach out saying that there was an article saying that, oh, well, how could you vote against funding that helps your district with these defense contractors?
00:06:55.000I'm not funded by the defense contractors, and so I'm here to represent the interests of the American people and my constituents.
00:07:01.000And so when you're seeing bills that essentially go into giving money to Israel, but then at the same time giving humanitarian aid to Gaza, which could ultimately end up in the hands of Hamas, you're basically funding both sides of the war.
00:07:13.000And so that's exactly why I held strong in that conviction.
00:07:15.000And I think a lot of people, people not in Washington, understand that and share that same sentiment.
00:07:20.000And what are you hearing from your district about how we proceeded now onto this massive $100 billion foreign aid bill at a time when our southern border is wide open?
00:07:31.000A lot of people, you know, the common question is what's going on with Johnson.
00:07:56.000So that should be a bipartisan position.
00:07:58.000Did you hear from a lot of folks in your office about the bill and about the vote we just took?
00:08:03.000Yeah, you know, we did a lot of messaging like Ana did.
00:08:05.000And what people need to understand is there's a lot of stuff buried in this bill.
00:08:09.000I mean, you know, because we do find ourselves, if this goes forward as it's constructed, that you'll be on both sides of the conflict with Israel because we know this is a fact that some of the money that goes into Gaza is going to Hamas.
00:08:35.000I thought that the left was against white supremacy until they're funding the groups fighting in Ukraine that have white supremacy embedded in a lot of their imagery and messaging.
00:08:46.000I guess they're willing to take U.S. taxpayer dollars to fund white supremacy abroad, While calling every MAGA grandmother that's wearing a red hat a white supremacist if they live across the street.
00:08:58.000Or trying to fund programs in the military to go after that when they should be focusing on job readiness, not trying to basically use the military to politically hunt opposition.
00:09:07.000You talked about the way Speaker Johnson changed and how he thought about this foreign aid bill relative to the border.
00:09:13.000And I want to get into that because it makes up a lot of the feedback that I'm receiving.
00:09:18.000Just regular folks are looking at this saying, How are you guys prioritizing the eastern border of Ukraine over the southern border of the United States?
00:09:25.000And we know you only have one half of one third of the government, but folks want to see us use leverage because I don't even think a bill would have to pass to put Substantial downward pressure on the border.
00:09:38.000I think we would just have to force Biden to return to the Trump policies on the border.
00:09:43.000And then I think people in the election would say, oh, well, we now know which policies work and which policies don't work.
00:09:53.000How do you think that affects kind of our credibility as a conference?
00:09:56.000I think we've lost credibility, but I actually had some of the more moderate members at the back.
00:10:00.000So we actually sit kind of in the center part of the conference where you can kind of see everything, but we had some of the more moderate members coming into the background and talking to us and saying, we don't understand why HR2 is not being attached to this, because even in some of these- This is the border bill.
00:10:13.000Yeah, so you'll actually have some of these more moderate districts, whether they're in New York, but they're getting completely just devastated with what's happening with illegal immigration.
00:10:21.000Us being from, you know, Florida, it's not so bad, but in other parts of the country, I mean, they are absolutely just getting destroyed by this.
00:10:28.000And so I think a lot of people are kind of wondering why is it that it seems like there's coalition government now and things that we didn't agree to, that we promised the American people we would be delivering on earlier on in the year, and then now you're seeing this pivot.
00:10:41.000And my response to them is that it can't change, so you as a member have to make the decision.
00:10:46.000Like, there seems to be this idea that you can't do things like discharge petitions or vote against the rule.
00:10:51.000All of that is brainwashing into making you just a sheep.
00:10:54.000So if you really want to come up here and legislate, you have to use those tools, and sometimes that means bucking your own party.
00:10:59.000So in just moments, there will be another vote on essentially HR2, what Ana just described.
00:11:06.000There'll be another vote on that, but we call that a show vote.
00:11:09.000If someone tells you something is a show vote, it is intended to get people on record, but it is not an effort to actually make law.
00:11:16.000It is not an effort to Congeal into a policy outcome that would be more beneficial for the American people.
00:11:24.000So because we have a lot of colleagues who I think incorrectly voted for the terms and conditions to proceed on to the foreign aid bill, they're now creating in just a few hours a show vote on a lot of the features of HR2 under a suspension of the rules.
00:11:40.000So this will not achieve two-thirds of the vote.
00:11:43.000This will not become law, but it will be a way for people to go and tweet and post about how strong they are against the border, but it doesn't really deliver an outcome or a result.
00:11:57.000You know, Andy, one of the things that What we talked about in strategy sessions was attaching to any Ukraine aid a requirement that only U.S. citizens vote in U.S. elections.
00:12:07.000That was something that the Freedom Caucus really tried to inject into this process.
00:12:12.000It ultimately was rejected by the speaker.
00:12:15.000Talk a little bit about how you would advise to use leverage on those points.
00:12:19.000Yeah, I mean, look, we have divided government.
00:13:24.000We need our speaker to stand up and fight, fight, fight for our country.
00:13:28.000And to me, that means not voting to proceed onto something that should not be on the agenda.
00:13:34.000One of our Republican colleagues, Dr. Murphy, a congressman from North Carolina, said that any vote against the terms and conditions I disagreed with that strongly.
00:13:48.000I think that they can vote their way, we can vote our way.
00:13:51.000But Ana, your reaction to Dr. Murphy saying that if we vote against proceeding on to one of these bad bills, that that somehow is like a war crime that breaks all the mores.
00:14:02.000Yeah, that is exactly what I was addressing earlier in that they try to bring you up here, especially as freshmen members of Congress and try to brainwash you into basically doing what they want you to do, but you are then not representing your district, the American people.
00:14:16.000So I actually liked your perspective on it and that if you were voting for this, you're actually voting for the invasion because ultimately that's exactly what it's doing.
00:14:24.000These whole messaging bills, I mean, you can also have a perfect example.
00:14:27.000We voted to stop the assault on the Fourth Amendment with FISA. Which was something that, to our disappointment, went down in a ball of flames.
00:14:37.000Do you think this is cumulative, by the way?
00:14:39.000I mean, we were fighting so hard on spending, all of us, and then we see them fight against us on the Fourth Amendment, and now we see this.
00:14:47.000I think, had we been successful along the way at single-subject spending bills or getting a warrant on FISA, maybe we wouldn't feel as burned as we do on this crappy foreign aid bill.
00:14:57.000Well, all it's doing is just exposing that these people, they keep saying that they don't want to take tough votes.
00:15:02.000Last time I checked, the Fourth Amendment was not a tough vote.
00:15:22.000I want to get into the individual provisions and I want to start with the Israel bill.
00:15:25.000On the Israel bill, I have concerns about deficit spending to send money to any country, even if that country is a great ally and even if that country is under attack.
00:15:36.000I think that there are ways to make reductions in our budget.
00:15:39.000What I believe is we ought to defund the UN to get the money to Israel since the UN has become such an anti-Israel entity.
00:15:46.000That way, You not only help Israel by getting them the resources, but you also help them by defunding one of their adversaries, which would be the UN. So you actually get value out of the pay-for.
00:15:57.000So I didn't like the deficit spending.
00:15:59.000I won't be voting for the Israel aid because there are no offsets, because the amendments, the terms and conditions we would have liked to put in those reductions to the UN in order to pay for Israel were not allowed to be considered.
00:16:12.000But, Andy, you've done so many pro-Israel bills.
00:16:16.000On this Israel vote that you're about to take, how do you assess it?
00:16:20.000You know, we see this unprecedented attack from Iran.
00:16:26.000You know, what I personally advise the Speaker he could do is if you put a clean Israel bill on the House floor and you could do a pay-for, and it could be a non-controversial pay-for.
00:16:37.000Yeah, I mean, there's just clawback COVID funds that are unspenting.
00:16:39.000There's wasted money laying around everywhere up here.
00:16:42.000So you could do a non-controversial pay-for and it would pass.
00:16:46.000And then you could put Ukraine on the floor.
00:16:48.000You could attach something like remain in Mexico and it would pass.
00:16:54.000And by the way, they've already spent $20 billion on US weapons and armaments that have not been delivered to them because they're going to Ukraine, which is a problem in and of itself because you have China ratcheting up their aggression towards Taiwan.
00:17:08.000And so there was a path that was, I think, would have been less painful, but it would have required the Speaker to really push back against the Warhawks and say, here's the play call.
00:17:19.000You may not get everything that you want, but you're going to get most of what you want.
00:17:23.000And I think as a conference, we would have been more united.
00:17:26.000But now with the posture we're on, are you voting for the Israel provision of the bill?
00:17:45.000So, as of right now, I'm a lean no, but it's a tough vote.
00:17:49.000But if those amendments would have been offered, even if they hadn't been adopted...
00:17:52.000See, my theory is if you would have given me a chance to go after the UN to try to help Israel or to vote on some of the Ogles amendments, I might have been more inclined to vote for the overall deal.
00:18:02.000But the fact that we're forced into borrowing money from China to give it to Israel is just such a bad way to think about it.
00:18:10.000I'm torn right now, mainly because, I mean, you go back to the UN. The UN also, too, is guilty of abuses against women.
00:18:16.000I mean, literally most of the countries on the UN Human Rights Council, which is just so ironic, have literally had some of the worst policies with women ever.
00:18:24.000But, I mean, you look at the whole process and the way that they handle this and that we can't openly amend this and that it has to go through the Speaker's office.
00:18:31.000And they're effectively governing by martial law is kind of what I look at it as.
00:18:37.000And so I'm at the point now where I obviously support our allies, but it's like, how could you expect us to then vote for funding on a bill that actually has funding contained that's going to help places and individuals that are going to hurt Israel in itself?
00:18:49.000You were basically funding the slaughter of Israelis, and I said that.
00:18:51.000And I know that this is highly technical, but those terms and conditions, again, they weave all this together.
00:18:58.000You don't like that they weave the Israel money to the Gaza aid money.
00:19:03.000We all don't like that it weaves this money to the Ukraine.
00:19:06.000It's not as if we have the opportunity for a vote on Israel that would only be about Israel because the terms and conditions tether Israel to Ukraine, which is kind of where I want to go next.
00:19:17.000The $60 billion Here for Ukraine, the entire United States Marine Corps is $50 billion.
00:19:23.000So we could have another Marine Corps and $10 billion in our pocket, or we could do this bill, $14 billion plus for direct government support for Ukraine.
00:19:33.000I also think that even the armaments risk escalatory accident because we have not yet heard from the Biden administration what winning looks like.
00:19:41.000When I was asking some of their senior officials in armed services, they were saying we're going to fight until they repatriated Crimea.
00:20:49.000I'm not sponsored by the government of Ukraine.
00:20:51.000I represent the American people, and I don't want mercenary armies, so I'm gonna know.
00:20:55.000I actually asked one of our colleagues in conference, like, are you worried that in Ukraine they're going to run out of men before they run out of bullets?
00:21:01.000Which none of us root for, but we have to look at the math here.
00:21:05.000And he looked at me and said, there'll always be mercenaries willing to fight.
00:21:11.000Get a bunch of Africans and drop them off in Europe and give them weapons and all in the name of peace and defending democracy doesn't really sound very democratic to me.
00:21:22.000Well, I mean, even if you wanted, let's say hypothetically, I wanted to support Ukraine, right?
00:21:27.000I can't in good conscience vote to send them money.
00:21:34.000Just roughly three weeks ago, there was a 14-year-old girl raped in Virginia by an illegal because this southern border is open.
00:21:42.000Three weeks ago, a 14-year-old girl in Louisiana was raped by an illegal because the southern border is open.
00:21:48.000We've caught 300 terrorists at the southern border.
00:21:50.000There's an Iranian hitman loose in our country that we're trying to find who has a hit list of American politicians because of the southern border.
00:21:58.000So if I have to choose between America and another country's border, I'm going to choose America.
00:22:04.000It's a pretty simple calculation in my book.
00:22:07.000Yeah, and I just think a lot of people at home Feel like we don't really care about them as we should, as their representatives, if we vote for this stuff.
00:22:17.000Does that thinking also apply to how you see this Taiwan vote?
00:22:28.000To me, I would have liked to have seen reductions in other areas of the budget.
00:22:31.000I keep coming back to that, and that shapes my thinking.
00:22:35.000But you want to persuade me to vote yes on the Taiwan thing?
00:22:39.000As we read the bill, and we'll double check this, but there's a provision in there that allows Biden to sweep the money for Taiwan into Ukraine.
00:22:49.000There's a little bait and switch going on there.
00:23:00.000I'm where you're at, but now that this is just more money for Ukraine, unless we can get something in an amendment that would actually make it permit, which we won't be able to, I'm going to lean no.
00:23:09.000Man, and then it will all go over to the Senate.
00:23:12.000And I was really encouraged that we had J.D. Vance and Mike Lee, Senator Tuberville, so many others trying to stand with House conservatives to focus our priorities on what you just laid out on the border.
00:23:26.000We are at times outcasts in the House and at times outcasts in our own party because we aren't bought and paid for.
00:23:35.000With the lobbyists and special interests that seem to pull the strings of a lot of our colleagues.
00:23:39.000We actually represent our districts and our constituents.
00:23:42.000And to me, it is so refreshing to have a little group of senators who I think are motivated the same way.
00:23:48.000Talk a little bit about that bicameral partnership, if you don't mind.
00:23:51.000Well, you know, I do believe this is fairly unprecedented for that many senators to weigh in with the House Freedom Caucus.
00:24:11.000And we're protected by the Constitution of the United States.
00:24:13.000But every single day, this town tries to chip away at that.
00:24:17.000So when you go back to FISA, And where we know there's been over 3 million queries, so the FISA bill, essentially, that's the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act that is designed to spy on people like the 9-11 terrorists, right?
00:24:34.000And yet they pass it and they ignore the Fourth Amendment.
00:24:38.000And so I'm encouraged that they're willing to stand with us to be so bold.
00:24:41.000And my hope is that when we win the Senate and we win the White House and we have the House of Representatives, we can get transformative change done in this town and we will be the tips of the spirit getting it done.
00:24:52.000I want to shift gears and talk now about what all these reporters have been bugging me about, this motion to vacate, okay?
00:25:35.000Okay, so here's my perspective on the motion to vacate.
00:25:37.000When I filed the motion to vacate, I thought war-gamed, strategized about how a four-seat Republican majority would then re-elect another speaker.
00:25:47.000Because it's not enough to have the votes to remove somebody.
00:25:50.000You have to actually replace them with somebody else.
00:25:54.000I really, really took great care to promise this audience and the entire country that under no circumstance would there be a Democrat Speaker of the House.
00:26:04.000I knew there might have been a few that maybe a little iffy.
00:26:08.000Would they vote for maybe a Josh Gottheimer-style Democrat or a Trone-style Democrat?
00:26:14.000But indeed, I did not believe that the prisoner's dilemma Of a four-seat majority would allow five or six to be able to break off together.
00:26:25.000But here is what I regret to inform you.
00:26:28.000I do believe in a one-seat majority, there could be one or two or three of my colleagues who would take a bribe in one form or another in order to deprive the Republicans of a majority at all.
00:26:42.000And let me tell you what a Democrat speaker looks like.
00:26:46.000Their leadoff hitter will be declaring Donald Trump an insurrectionist and setting up a barrier to him being able to become the President of the United States if he is lawfully and legally elected, as I expect he will be.
00:26:58.000And then the chaser to that shot Will be a massive spending package that looks a lot more like the American Rescue Plan.
00:27:07.000They will blow past every concept of every cap ever imagined.
00:27:12.000You'll be looking at universal basic income.
00:27:14.000You could be looking at packing the Supreme Court.
00:27:17.000And so the risk that one or two of my corrupt Republican colleagues might take a bribe, take a walk, Feign an ailment and flip this thing to the Democrats is a risk that is too high for me at this time.
00:27:41.000So I heard that when, if and when, the motion to vacate is introduced, That there will be immediate resignations of a couple of more moderate members of Congress.
00:27:54.000And in the event that that happens, that ultimately means it does go to a Democrat speaker.
00:28:57.000You know, I noticed that a lot of the members who have found themselves recently in competitive Republican primaries voted no on the rule.
00:29:05.000People who've never voted no on the rule before were voting no on the rule.
00:29:10.000And in that spirit Andy's talking about, you know, of seeing the fight ahead.
00:29:16.000I don't believe this team can save the country.
00:29:19.000I believe, fundamentally, there has to be a different Republican team that is focused on the border, on the single-subject bills, on the process reforms that we've been fighting for since the two of you got to Congress.
00:29:36.000What this team wants is the massive bills, the 3,000-page bills jammed together where no one's really responsible.
00:29:43.000They want the $100 billion foreign aid without the type of really itemized review that you and Andy have been talking about.
00:29:50.000And so do you share that sentiment that the fight's over the horizon?
00:29:55.000Yeah, and I think that we actually have, this is growing pains, I think we have an opportunity.
00:29:58.000You're seeing an identity crisis within the GOP right now, currently, and I think that a lot of people that are resigning are those more moderate members.
00:30:06.000Remember, I just want to remind people too, we had timed resignations that would bring this majority to a one or two seat majority.
00:30:14.000So with the opportunity that we have had to get better people into office, Don't just get frustrated and shut down.
00:30:22.000Get involved and send us better people, because as you're seeing, time and time again, the votes are showing that there is a small group that will fight for your constitutional rights, but then there's a uniparty that exists.
00:30:35.000And I will say that there are some Democrats, too, that will vote with us on the issues of the Fourth Amendment, but they even have their own uniparty that's working against them.
00:30:42.000So please send us different people, please.
00:30:46.000And earlier, there was this big CNN piece about how a lot of Republicans were choosing to not run for re-election, and they blamed me for making the place so miserable, for making people actually take votes and do a lot of the open amendment work that we have been fighting for.
00:31:01.000And let me just walk you through the economics of how this could work in a vacate situation to flip control of the Democrats.
00:31:08.000Let's assume you're a Republican and you've already announced that you're not seeking re-election.
00:31:34.000And all of a sudden, that employer calls you up and says, well, Turns out, we need you right now.
00:31:41.000And instead of that $400,000 contract that you were going to get because we've got so much work for you to do now and because it's so important right now, we'll pay you $2 million to leave.
00:31:52.000So now you're looking at a $1.6 million windfall and people are saying, huh, is it worth $1.6 million just for me to stick around in my $175,000 a year job for a few extra months?
00:32:04.000Or do I take the payoff When I've been making $175,000 a year and go do that.
00:32:09.000I find this deeply disgusting and unsettling, but you deserve to know how a vacate scenario with one or two or three people.
00:32:21.000You don't have to win with a majority of people doing that.
00:32:25.000You're risking Potentially having a Hakeem Jeffries Speaker of the House, that there might be some temptation among some to do that, who have no plans to come back, who don't want a political future, who basically just want their golden parachute.
00:33:12.000On my official accounts, it's Rep Luna, and then on my personal where I can give a little bit more commentary and filter is at Real Ana Paulina.
00:33:19.000And Andy, you have launched a new show that is terrific.