Firebrand - Matt Gaetz - Episode 60 LIVE: No Vax, No Service (feat. MSgt. Nick Kupper) – Firebrand with Matt Gaetz

On today's show, we have an interview with retired US Air Force Master Sergeant Nick Cupper, a hero in the fight against abortion on demand legislation in the House of Representatives. He talks about his views on the issue, why he opposes it, and why he thinks it's a terrible idea. We also hear from Rep. Matt Gaetz, who has been a thorn in the side of the Deep State and the deep state for a long time, and what he's doing to fight back against it. And we have updates from the Supreme Court regarding the controversial vaccine mandate in the military. We also have an update from the Virginia Supreme Court on the challenge to the Defense of Life Amendment, which could allow abortion up to the day of birth in the United States. And of course, we get to hear from our Firebrand of the Week, Rep. Jason Smith, who is fighting for the rights of all unborn children. If you want to stand for the flag, and kneel in prayer, and not burn her to the ground, then you're in the right place! Firebrand is live broadcasting live from our office in the Capitol Complex in Washington, D.C. and we have a great interview with a hero, American hero, a patriot, and a man who has done nothing but speak his mind. . Thank you for tuning in, Firebrand! - Your support is so appreciated. - Firebrand - Don't Tell Mom: e-mail us what you think of this episode and we'll get a shoutout on the next episode of Firebrand. Timestamps: and a shout out to someone else who needs it! Tim's Story: . . . Firebrand's Story? Thanks for listening to the Firebrand Podcast: Tim Gooden's Story is Tweet Me Out! or if you have a story you'd like to be featured on Firebrand: , or have a question or would you like to respond to it? or share it on Insta: or your story is or a screenshot of something like that's good, tweet me or any other good thing I'm listening to it's good enough, and I'll get it on the podcast? , or a review or a story about it's story is good enough and/or a story I'll send it to me tweet me an e-post?

00:00:00.000 Thank you.

00:04:57.000 Matt Gaetz was one of the very few members in the entire Congress who bothered to stand up against permanent Washington on behalf of his constituents.

00:05:05.000 Matt Gaetz right now, he's a problem for the Democratic Party.

00:05:07.000 He could cause a lot of hiccups in passing the laws.

00:05:10.000 So we're going to keep running those stories to keep hurting him.

00:05:14.000 If you stand for the flag and kneel in prayer, if you want to build America up and not burn her to the ground, then welcome, my fellow patriots!

00:05:23.000 You are in the right place!

00:05:25.000 This is the movement for you!

00:05:27.000 You ever watch this guy on television?

00:05:29.000 Like a machine.

00:05:31.000 Matt Gaetz.

00:05:32.000 I'm a canceled man in some corners of the internet.

00:05:35.000 Many days I'm a marked man in Congress, a wanted man by the deep state.

00:05:39.000 They aren't really coming for me.

00:05:41.000 They're coming for you.

00:05:43.000 I'm just in the way.

00:05:45.000 Welcome back to Firebrand.

00:05:52.000 We are live broadcasting out of our office in the Capitol Complex in Washington DC and I have a terrific interview with an American hero, a patriot.

00:06:02.000 Air Force Master Sergeant Nick Cupper came and sat down and chatted with us moments ago about the way This vaccine mandate in the military is affecting military families, and we've even got updates regarding important court rulings giving some relief, particularly to those service members in the Air Force who did not have a fair evaluation of their request for religious exemptions to the vaccine.

00:06:28.000 But first, just moments ago, House Democrats passed their abortion on demand legislation.

00:06:35.000 And this goes far further than Roe versus Wade.

00:06:39.000 It even would allow abortion up to the day of birth.

00:06:42.000 And gosh, if you gave the Virginia governor his own interpretation of the bill, maybe even abortion after the day of birth, which we actually call murder in this country, or at least we should if we cared about humanity as much as we ought to.

00:06:56.000 We had a very spirited debate in the House Judiciary Committee where Democrats were just like trying to rush through anything they could to facilitate snap abortions, elective abortions, abortions that would be a crime against humanity.

00:07:10.000 I'd had enough of it and shot back pretty hard.

00:07:13.000 Take a listen.

00:07:16.000 Ms. Bass, you didn't use the words that were confusing, so I'm not going to yield to you.

00:07:21.000 It is my bill.

00:07:22.000 But you didn't use the words and description of it.

00:07:24.000 And guess why?

00:07:25.000 It was Ms. Ross who used those words.

00:07:27.000 And if I want to ask questions of Ms. Ross, she could choose whether or not to yield to give the answers.

00:07:31.000 But you covering for her, she doesn't know the words she uses and cannot in the Judiciary Committee sit and answer the questions on something as important as life or death when I control the time is outrageous. 0.71

00:07:44.000 Are you done?

00:07:45.000 I'm done when my term's done.

00:07:46.000 You can yield for those questions.

00:07:49.000 But it's crazy that in this committee, when I'm trying to get honest answers to questions about the effect of the bill, whether or not it paves the way to abortions, that you all want to sit up there and squawk at me rather than allow me to ask questions.

00:08:02.000 When you have the time, you can control the time.

00:08:04.000 How about that?

00:08:05.000 But these are fair questions.

00:08:06.000 She used the phrase unborn child.

00:08:09.000 I would like to know what that means to her because what it means to us is that it is a life.

00:08:15.000 You know what?

00:08:16.000 I want the answer on the record, Ms. Bass.

00:08:18.000 I want the answer for the American people because to all of us, my party that was impugned, we actually think that unborn life is a child and that there is a liberty interest there that is worthy of our defense and our protection and the values that undergird the American Constitution.

00:08:35.000 I don't think that's too unreasonable.

00:08:36.000 And by the way, if you use a phrase in this committee, you shouldn't have to have a senior member answer the questions for you.

00:08:44.000 You should be able to answer those questions yourself.

00:08:46.000 And if not, I think it speaks to the credibility of the debate that is offered.

00:08:50.000 So I'll yield, Ms. Bass.

00:08:52.000 I got 50 seconds.

00:08:54.000 Thank you.

00:08:55.000 I would like for us to vote on the amendment.

00:08:57.000 I think the bill is clear.

00:09:00.000 The rest of this discussion is theater.

00:09:02.000 I would like to vote on the amendment.

00:09:04.000 Can we vote on the amendment, Mr. Chair?

00:09:06.000 I'll tell you what, Ms. Bass, reclaiming my time.

00:09:08.000 We'll vote when we're damn well ready and when we're done answering our questions.

00:09:12.000 Oh, you chair the committee now?

00:09:13.000 No, we have rights in the minority to utilize time under the five-minute rule to be able to offer our perspective on matters.

00:09:20.000 And we're sorry if you all are in such a rush to kill unborn life that you're unwilling to answer our questions.

00:09:26.000 But you know what?

00:09:27.000 The good news is, with the Supreme Court we currently have, This is now a pro-life country, and we've got all the time in the world for that.

00:09:36.000 We are back live.

00:09:38.000 And what's crazy, just moments ago, alongside their legislation to allow abortions on demand, Democrats actually lowered tariffs on baby formula to get more baby formula into the country.

00:09:52.000 I voted for that bill.

00:09:53.000 I'm actually for our children and our babies being able to be appropriately nourished.

00:09:59.000 But only Nancy Pelosi and her radical band of House Democrats would not appreciate the irony of, within moments of one another, passing a bill making it easier to feed babies, and then passing a bill making it easier to kill babies.

00:10:15.000 Fortunately, we have a pro-life Supreme Court, a pro-Constitution Supreme Court, thanks to the boldness of President Trump.

00:10:24.000 And America is now a pro-life nation.

00:10:28.000 I also want to chat a little bit today about the military vaccine mandate.

00:10:32.000 Now, one of the ways we try to keep folks informed about what's going on in the country is actually to bring people forward who are experiencing the consequences of the decisions that we make in Washington, D.C., and particularly some of the very damaging decisions made by the Biden administration.

00:10:49.000 So several months ago, we had a number of active duty service members join us for a discussion about vaccine mandates in the military.

00:10:56.000 They talked about the coercion, the threats, the regulations that were being violated.

00:11:02.000 One of the service members who joined us then was Air Force Master Sergeant Nick Cupper.

00:11:07.000 Take a listen to that exchange.

00:11:12.000 Master Sergeant, one of the things that concerned me in an investigation that my office ran into the United States Navy is that when people submitted requests for religious accommodations, they were often met in response by a form letter, which to me indicated that an individual review of people's claim,

00:11:31.000 how this decision was grounded in faith or scripture, wasn't really made Do you have any observations about the process of requesting a religious accommodation and how the Air Force looks at those?

00:11:48.000 Yes, Congressman, thank you.

00:11:50.000 I've seen hundreds of denied religious accommodation requests to include denied appeal requests.

00:11:57.000 I've seen a handful of the approved ones, and all of them start with the premise that the government has such a strong interest in vaccinating us that While they determine all of our religious beliefs are to be sincerely held, they determine that even as strongly as our beliefs are, they're not as strong as the government's desire and need to vaccinate all of us.

00:12:20.000 Even in situations such as my own where I currently have No restrictions on me as an unvaccinated member at my location.

00:12:27.000 I don't have to wear a mask.

00:12:28.000 I don't have to weekly test.

00:12:29.000 I don't have to do any social distancing.

00:12:33.000 My life at my job is the exact same as any vaccinated members, and I'm not unique in that scenario right now. 0.99

00:12:40.000 But the only approvals they've been doing that I've been able to see and that court documents have shown are for people who are already on terminal leave, already in their final months, where they won't return to a base.

00:12:51.000 In fact, the approval specifically says that they are only approving it because they will not return to a base.

00:12:57.000 If the member's not returning to their duty station ever, that's not an accommodation.

00:13:00.000 They're accommodating nothing.

00:13:04.000 That really was one of my favorite episodes we've done.

00:13:07.000 You can go back, listen to it, and get perspectives from other service members who are going through these challenges.

00:13:13.000 Now, after that appearance on Firebrand, Tucker Carlson, who I'm pretty sure is a Firebrand viewer and listener, he reached out to Nick and had Nick on his show so that more of the American people could see what is happening.

00:13:27.000 Take a listen to Nick's performance on Tucker.

00:13:32.000 So, my theory is we ignore the big things in favor of obsessing over the little ones, so destroying the US military would qualify as a big thing.

00:13:38.000 Do you not have a member of Congress?

00:13:40.000 I mean, there are hundreds of Republicans holding federal office.

00:13:43.000 None has come forward to stop this?

00:13:46.000 So there definitely have been some.

00:13:47.000 I was on Matt Gaetz's podcast, and he's definitely been fighting for us.

00:13:51.000 Thomas Massey's been fighting for us, Chip Roy.

00:13:53.000 But there are only a few.

00:13:54.000 You know, we need everybody.

00:13:55.000 This is not a problem for tomorrow to be solved or the next day.

00:13:59.000 This is a problem right now.

00:14:00.000 You're talking about over 10% of your military is looking to be canned right now.

00:14:04.000 I mean, if I were China or I were Russia, I'd be chomping at the bit right now.

00:14:11.000 As you can see in that interview, Nick was telling the truth.

00:14:15.000 He was sharing open source information about the effect of the military vaccine mandate on our fighting force.

00:14:24.000 And I was really proud of him.

00:14:26.000 I think we need more folks who are willing to step forward and help enlighten us and illuminate what's happening afterwards.

00:14:34.000 Nick got a reprimand from the Department of Defense saying that he was aiding the enemy just for that interview on Tucker.

00:14:42.000 So I wanted to get a more complete picture.

00:14:45.000 I wanted to understand from Nick what's happening with others in the fighting force who are being really, I think, discriminated against who are not having their religious exemptions viewed fairly.

00:14:58.000 And also really to get back to that core of what motivates people to step forward for military service.

00:15:05.000 Something that we absolutely need to keep America prosperous and free.

00:15:09.000 Nick stopped by just moments ago and we had a conversation.

00:15:12.000 Take a listen.

00:15:15.000 We're back and happy to join with Nick Cupper on your return to Firebrand.

00:15:21.000 You were with us before and Nick, you know, we talked about some of the coercion and some of the concerns of a lot of our active duty military as a consequence of this VAX mandate.

00:15:32.000 Can you share with folks what your current standing is with the military?

00:15:36.000 We've just had this injunction issued that I think really works against the forces pushing for this mandate.

00:15:43.000 Just share with folks kind of your circumstance.

00:15:45.000 First, thanks for having me back.

00:15:46.000 I really appreciate it.

00:15:48.000 Yeah, so for me personally, right now, I was issued a letter of reprimand, first off, for being on Tucker Carlson's show the other day.

00:15:56.000 And we're dealing with that right now.

00:15:58.000 And I was issued a separation package, which in the Air Force is their notification.

00:16:01.000 They want to separate you.

00:16:02.000 And for a member like me, who's been here for 19 years, it starts a process where I would go to a board where they can determine to retain me or not.

00:16:10.000 If they choose not to, I'd be gone in about a week after that.

00:16:13.000 So you spoke out about the circumstances that you were observing and experiencing regarding this mandate, and you did so with several other colleagues who were active duty.

00:16:21.000 Then you went on Tucker Carlson's program and just shared your reaction to what was publicly available information.

00:16:29.000 And now two things have happened, a separation package and a reprimand.

00:16:32.000 So let's start with the reprimand.

00:16:34.000 What is the assertion that you have done something objectionable toward the military?

00:16:40.000 Right.

00:16:40.000 So I can't get into the specifics of it because they've marked it as such that I won't.

00:16:45.000 But the long and short is they effectively say that I have hurt the government and hurt our country by going on Tucker, which is not accurate at all.

00:16:57.000 Everything I spoke of was publicly available information.

00:16:59.000 I didn't give my own personal opinion.

00:17:02.000 I may have hurt some feelings, but everything I said was 100% a public available true number.

00:17:08.000 And the separation package that's sort of the other feature of this.

00:17:12.000 Now we're aware of really breaking news on the legal front where a court has issued an injunction against some of the activities that the Air Force is engaged in regarding our airmen.

00:17:22.000 Where does your separation package stand?

00:17:25.000 So, yeah, so because of this injunction in the case Doster v.

00:17:28.000 Kendall, which is specific to Air Force, unfortunately, I wish it was for everyone, and it's only specific to members who have sought a religious accommodation.

00:17:34.000 We have a 14-day temporary injunction right now.

00:17:38.000 The defense, the Air Force will have the chance to argue it.

00:17:41.000 The plaintiffs have a chance to come back, and at the end of the 14 days, unless the judge is swayed, which I doubt he will be, we're going to have a permanent injunction until the end of that trial.

00:17:49.000 So because of that, my separation package now has to go away.

00:17:53.000 Everyone who was being punished in the military, in the Air Force specifically, who had a religious accommodation at some point, now has a little breathing room.

00:18:01.000 It's very little, but it's there.

00:18:04.000 Actually, I flew in on Thursday, and I took a quick nap at my friend's house.

00:18:09.000 During the nap is when the injunction came down.

00:18:11.000 I said, I would have come here and napped a long time ago if I would have known this would happen.

00:18:14.000 Well, and I hope that this is an opportunity DOD-wide to really analyze the effect of these mandates on our service members, not just in the Air Force, but really throughout our military, and also to maybe reflect.

00:18:27.000 You know, so often in government, we don't exercise the humility to say, maybe a decision we made was rash.

00:18:34.000 Maybe it wasn't fully informed by the evidence or the science.

00:18:37.000 I call on Secretary Austin on the DOD to really think hard about what this injunction means, what the analysis is that undergirds this injunction, and maybe this will be the opportunity for us to get away from pitting our military against the heroes and patriots who are offering to serve in that military.

00:18:58.000 And to that end, Nick, I just sort of want to ask you, what drove you to make this decision that I didn't make, that so many Americans don't make, To put on that uniform and to be willing to stand up for your country and defend her.

00:19:11.000 So I was young, you know, straight out of high school.

00:19:14.000 Actually, I hadn't even graduated yet, of course, when I decided.

00:19:17.000 And I wasn't 100% sure I wanted to do, but the military was an attractive option and has been for such a long time for so many members.

00:19:24.000 And one, it was a way to take care of myself, but another, it was a way to give back to my country.

00:19:30.000 You know, my dad had served in the Army.

00:19:32.000 He had been to Vietnam.

00:19:34.000 My uncle earned a Bronze Star in Vietnam.

00:19:36.000 You know, I kind of wanted to, you know, honor that.

00:19:41.000 So family was a big part of it for you.

00:19:43.000 Family was definitely a big part of it.

00:19:44.000 And, you know, bigger than just why I initially joined, I was a young man, you know, maybe didn't think through everything.

00:19:48.000 The reason I've re-enlisted multiple times and I'm almost at 20 years now is because I care about doing the hard things so I can take care of others.

00:19:55.000 You know, not everyone can do this.

00:19:57.000 This is not for everybody.

00:19:59.000 I am happy to serve so that someone else doesn't have to.

00:20:02.000 You know, I'm willing to put my life, my family's stability at risk because I honestly just care and I think more people need to just care.

00:20:10.000 And I think that the depth of that care is multi-generational for a lot of our service members.

00:20:17.000 We've had experts from DOD come and testify to us that while we face these intense challenges in recruiting, our best recruiters are moms and dads and aunts and uncles and grandmothers and grandfathers who have served, who want to build that family tradition of patriotism and service to country.

00:20:35.000 Are you concerned that some of these vaccine mandates might cause some people in the country to reflect differently with their children and grandchildren and nieces and nephews about just how the military experience goes in one's life?

00:20:53.000 I do.

00:20:53.000 I think that the vaccine mandates, the way it's being handled, I would say, and a lot of the other newer policies that have come along later in my career now, have definitely changed how people want to...

00:21:07.000 What people want to advise their children to do.

00:21:09.000 And like I said, when I was on your show last time, you know, at this point for me, I don't want my children serving, not in the current military that's here.

00:21:16.000 And people may not like that, but, you know, that's a personal decision for me and my family, and it's factual.

00:21:22.000 You know, what I have seen, I don't want for my children.

00:21:25.000 You know, I want to defend this country.

00:21:27.000 I would love my children to defend this country, but not at the stake of all of their rights being, you know, thrown away on a whim.

00:21:35.000 You know, Nick, my office did an analysis, and we're going to put it out with the show, about the readiness costs of these vaccine mandates.

00:21:42.000 And we calculated easily that the United States is essentially surrendering about $4 billion worth of training investment With just the separations that we're able to see above the surface.

00:21:55.000 And you gave us a lot of information about separations that are occurring that might not be officially designated as a vaccine separation, but maybe it's somebody who just doesn't want to go through the fight.

00:22:05.000 Maybe they can go work somewhere else and, you know, they weren't serving in the Air Force or the Army or the Navy.

00:22:12.000 You know, to get rich, they were doing it out of love of country, but there might be other economic opportunities that are better.

00:22:18.000 And so at a minimum, it's a $4 billion loss in our training investment.

00:22:23.000 But what I think you're telling me right now is that there's a readiness impact That we're not going to feel today, that we're going to feel 10, 20 years down the road potentially if the moms and dads who serve, who are part of that robust recruiting for the next generation aren't doing that.

00:22:40.000 If patriots and heroes like you aren't pushing it on the next generation, who do we expect to do it, right?

00:22:47.000 And if that's happening, it creates a really long gestation period for that impact on readiness.

00:22:52.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:22:53.000 It's a lagging indicator, right?

00:22:55.000 Right.

00:22:55.000 Because let's say I'm gone today, but they've recruited somebody to replace me.

00:23:00.000 Someone who comes in today doesn't have 19 years of experience.

00:23:02.000 You know, they don't have what I have.

00:23:05.000 They can't directly replace me.

00:23:06.000 And it takes years and years and years to build that person up.

00:23:10.000 And on top of the fact that that's just trying to replace one of us, the fact that we're not getting the members in to replace us, and the numbers that they're putting out there.

00:23:18.000 I mean, like I mentioned on Tucker, you know, at the DoD's own website right now, they're listing over 290,000 members that are only partially vaccinated.

00:23:25.000 That doesn't include all of us who are unvaccinated.

00:23:28.000 And every deadline has passed.

00:23:30.000 So you're kind of seeing it on both ends from a potential readiness issue where you have a potential mass exodus of the DOD's own making.

00:23:38.000 And then you have very little, you know, anyone coming in, any accessions, right?

00:23:44.000 I mean, what did the Army put out the other day of their own numbers?

00:23:47.000 They said they were at 40% of their goal with three months left in this fiscal year.

00:23:52.000 So how are you going to get 60% in three months when you could only get 40 in nine?

00:23:57.000 I used to recruit for years, and this is not the recruiting environment that I worked in.

00:24:00.000 I didn't know you did recruiting work as part of your service.

00:24:04.000 I have to ask, when you were doing that, what were the things that you would put before potential recruits that you really felt motivated them?

00:24:13.000 You know the funny thing is?

00:24:14.000 You didn't have to do much to motivate them.

00:24:16.000 It was like if you go to a car lot to buy a car, right?

00:24:19.000 You don't go there unless you're ready to buy because you don't want to be sold to.

00:24:23.000 Almost everyone who comes into a recruiting office is ready to be sold.

00:24:26.000 They're just not coming in anymore because they're not ready.

00:24:28.000 You know, what I would do when I would talk to them is I would be honest.

00:24:32.000 And that's what worked really well for me.

00:24:33.000 I would say, you're in here for a reason.

00:24:35.000 There's something you think you can get out of here.

00:24:37.000 Tell me what it is.

00:24:38.000 And they would tell me what they think and I would just affirm that yes, you can get that from the military and we'd sign.

00:24:42.000 Do you think they're still good that people can get out of the military?

00:24:46.000 100%.

00:24:47.000 You know, honestly, and I've said this for years to a lot of my troops and stuff, the way the military and the Air Force specifically, because that's mine, is designed, it's designed really, really well.

00:24:57.000 And there's a lot of things in there to take care of people.

00:25:00.000 The problem is when, from time to time, you're going to get a bad leader.

00:25:03.000 Same list of inside, you might have a bad boss.

00:25:05.000 Any organization.

00:25:06.000 Any organization.

00:25:07.000 Any shop, any store, even Fortune 500 companies.

00:25:11.000 And they may not even mean to be bad.

00:25:12.000 They just may not be good at it, right?

00:25:14.000 They are the ones that give people a bad taste in their mouth, and that's a lot of the reason why people get out.

00:25:19.000 They don't get out because the policies in general or the rules in general, they're well-written.

00:25:23.000 As a small example, when we adopted our daughter from Armenia, After the adoption was over, it was very expensive.

00:25:28.000 You know, 13 and a half months it took us to get her.

00:25:30.000 It cost $35,000.

00:25:31.000 The Air Force has a policy where you can apply and get a small reimbursement, but it's $2,000.

00:25:36.000 They don't have to pay me.

00:25:37.000 They didn't ask me to adopt my daughter, but they have this fantastic policy.

00:25:40.000 The Air Force has moved us twice to take care of her medical and educational needs to bases that they didn't have to move me to.

00:25:46.000 You know, I had signed on the line.

00:25:47.000 I have to work where I'm told to work, but it's designed really well.

00:25:51.000 It's when you don't implement it correctly or when you pervert a rule and you change things.

00:25:56.000 And I think we've seen a lot of that.

00:25:57.000 Well, and a lot of the policies that you were just really, I think, celebrating are about making the service member feel as though they're part of something bigger in their service with the military.

00:26:08.000 And to provide those family accommodations and to provide that support for the force multiplier that is a military family is, And it seems like, to me, this vaccine mandate cuts against a lot of that unity and culture and cohesion that draw people into the military because they want to be a part of something bigger.

00:26:27.000 And just to be fair, I wouldn't argue so much against the mandate itself, but the implementation of it is where my concern is.

00:26:36.000 Because there are all these already on the books rules for exemptions and things like that, right?

00:26:42.000 And religious exemptions have been a thing forever.

00:26:45.000 I mean, we have the right to religious freedom.

00:26:46.000 It's enshrined in our constitution.

00:26:48.000 And then in the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, it's further emboldened.

00:26:52.000 But what has happened here is you have an order that lower, from my perspective, lower level commanders are implementing incorrectly.

00:27:01.000 Right?

00:27:01.000 And they're at the point where they're not approving religious accommodations.

00:27:06.000 Well, in my own investigation of my own constituents, I would see these detailed expressions of faith, citing chapter and verse to Scripture, aligning that Scripture with personal faith experiences and moments of salvation.

00:27:20.000 And then I would see form letters sent back from the military to my constituents.

00:27:26.000 Just like mine.

00:27:26.000 And that's not what the law requires.

00:27:29.000 The law requires...

00:27:30.000 Requires an individual assessment of each claim for a religious exemption or a medical exemption.

00:27:36.000 And then to be able to hold up the letters back to a lamp and see that the letters line right up, it shows that people weren't being given the opportunity to have their exemption claim assessed so much as they were just being processed through a system.

00:27:51.000 And I guess that's different.

00:27:53.000 I critique the mandate.

00:27:54.000 You are, in essence, critiquing the system Yes.

00:27:58.000 The adherence to the regulations that our service members have come to rely on.

00:28:03.000 Correct.

00:28:04.000 And, you know, they have a policy in place across the DOD to only grant religious accommodations to members who are already on their final leave or in a skill bridge program, which is like an internship.

00:28:14.000 Either way, I read one just the other day.

00:28:16.000 It says it's conditionally approved as long as you never return to a DOD facility.

00:28:20.000 That's not an accommodation.

00:28:22.000 You look at the dictionary definition, that's not accommodating.

00:28:26.000 And you can't have a policy like that because if it's a set policy, then it's not individualistic, is it?

00:28:34.000 We've been talking a lot about this intersection of service, patriotism, and faith.

00:28:39.000 I've always viewed that as a real strength of our military.

00:28:42.000 A strong chaplaincy makes for a good wing, a good unit.

00:28:47.000 It seems almost now that the institutions of the military are more eager to deny the intersection of faith and service.

00:28:56.000 How does your faith inform your desire to serve your country in the military?

00:29:02.000 I'm a Christian personally, right?

00:29:04.000 And from the Bible, it says, you know, serve God first.

00:29:07.000 But it also says, you know, follow the laws of the land, right?

00:29:10.000 And it talks about serving your leaders and, you know, doing right by them the same as you would for God.

00:29:15.000 Now, obviously, God is still the highest.

00:29:17.000 But in the end, I want to serve my country.

00:29:19.000 You know, I want to do right by it.

00:29:22.000 And I'm getting to the point where I'm being limited in whether I'm allowed to or not.

00:29:27.000 And for my personal religious accommodation request, I

00:30:00.000 look at it You know, it's hard, and not just for Christians, for all members of faith, all types of faiths have applied for these.

00:30:07.000 And they've all been, I will say at least, they've been equally treated badly because they've all been treated to the point where, well, if you're not this one category who's already on the way out and not going to come back, we're not approving you.

00:30:19.000 The military imposes a very unique series of challenges on family life.

00:30:26.000 Moving around a lot, TDY, training, sometimes a family member not even knowing where you are.

00:30:34.000 But people sign up for that.

00:30:36.000 And there's a certain strength and resilience that I see in military families that go through these remarkable, I think, just ups and downs in life.

00:30:48.000 It's never been anything like this, though.

00:30:50.000 I feel that there's something different about the way that the implementation of these mandates have affected military families.

00:30:56.000 Can you talk about what life's been like for you as you've gone from your service to now being really an advocate for, I think, a great number of service members who have the concerns that you express?

00:31:10.000 It is definitely different now.

00:31:15.000 I don't know how we got to this point, honestly, like exactly.

00:31:19.000 I mean, I can kind of see a little science here and there.

00:31:21.000 But the amount of stress that is on the military members and their families for sure is immense.

00:31:28.000 I mean, just extremely immense.

00:31:29.000 And like I said, you take my one story and you multiply it by over 300,000 because that's how many more of us there are.

00:31:36.000 You know, that is an unfathomable number, really.

00:31:40.000 And you think about their wives, husbands, you know, children.

00:31:44.000 And I've talked to members who are, you know, being told, well, they have the early signs of PTSD from this specific situation.

00:31:52.000 Wow.

00:31:52.000 Because of the level of stress that they've gone over.

00:31:54.000 I've heard anecdotal evidence.

00:31:55.000 I can't prove it.

00:31:57.000 I'm not in that realm.

00:31:58.000 But I've heard anecdotal evidence of a few members who have actually committed suicide over this.

00:32:02.000 And, you know, honestly, that's something I brought up to my leadership early on.

00:32:05.000 As I said, I'm concerned that there will be some members because of how much pressure is on it.

00:32:09.000 Because I could feel it.

00:32:11.000 I've been around long enough.

00:32:12.000 I feel like I can take it.

00:32:14.000 You know, I shouldn't have to, but I can.

00:32:17.000 There are younger members of our military or people who may be going through other things in their life.

00:32:21.000 They can't.

00:32:22.000 And we're talking about readiness.

00:32:24.000 We're talking about, oh, you have to take this vaccine to save your life and save it.

00:32:27.000 But then people are killing themselves over the amount of pressure they're being put under because their livelihoods are put at stake.

00:32:33.000 You know, if I do get kicked out, I'll land on my feet.

00:32:36.000 You know, I've been around long enough.

00:32:37.000 But there's a huge number that will not be alright.

00:32:40.000 And you're talking about creating a situation where they're going to be more dependent on the government.

00:32:44.000 Maybe that's something people want.

00:32:45.000 Maybe they want to create a situation where more and more members of America are dependent upon the government for everything.

00:32:51.000 I certainly don't want that.

00:32:52.000 And while we are grateful that we have resilient people who are willing to Follow the rules.

00:32:59.000 Learn the rules.

00:33:00.000 Express a desire for everyone to follow the rules.

00:33:03.000 I worry that even if you're okay, and even if others that might get separated are okay, that America won't be okay.

00:33:10.000 I look at these recruiting numbers, and right now, only 23% of the young folks in middle school and high school that are part of that talent pipeline are even physically eligible.

00:33:22.000 Yeah.

00:33:22.000 We got the Xbox generation, and if our country doesn't have folks like you and the tens of thousands that are facing separation, we're not going to be a stronger country.

00:33:33.000 We're going to be a weaker country.

00:33:34.000 We're going to be more susceptible to attack.

00:33:37.000 And there are entities in the world that are evil.

00:33:41.000 And we have to be a strong country.

00:33:43.000 And we need patriots to step forward.

00:33:45.000 And I worry if we get to a circumstance where we drive out a lot of folks who were inspired by faith and inspired by a desire to be part of a family's contribution to a great nation, then we're going to be left in a very vulnerable situation.

00:34:00.000 I mean, in your time in the military, I'm sure you've seen circumstances where missions become very critical to the advance of our country and our freedom.

00:34:09.000 Absolutely.

00:34:11.000 We've had this debate in Congress now about The National Defense Authorization Act.

00:34:16.000 And there's some that would say, you know, gosh, we shouldn't authorize our military until they fix all these issues and comply with their laws.

00:34:23.000 And gosh, you know, I worry that if we didn't have a military, we would not have the American experience.

00:34:30.000 You know, that is part of the world experience.

00:34:32.000 Exactly.

00:34:33.000 I mean, if you look at just how many of our servicemen and women are over in Europe, for instance.

00:34:38.000 Yeah.

00:34:38.000 And I mean, we provide, what, 75% of NATO's funding?

00:34:42.000 Ann Manning, honestly, that actually goes out and does anything. 1.00

00:34:45.000 And good or bad, you know, we may not want to be the world's police, but everyone relies on us.

00:34:51.000 If we are the one good superpower, right?

00:34:54.000 If we keep things in check, if we don't have the military we have, that's not going to happen.

00:34:59.000 And once it goes away, it's gone.

00:35:00.000 You don't get it back.

00:35:02.000 If something, you know, God forbid, another country somehow became most powerful and took us over at some point, you know, distant future, hopefully never, there's no coming back from it.

00:35:12.000 I mean, you have multiple generations of your family that have committed to that as the cause of their life.

00:35:18.000 And it's just not something we should ever surrender, and it's not something we should allow ourselves to be vulnerable to.

00:35:25.000 We should not be a vulnerable country, and I worry that these large numbers of separations will be noticed by our adversaries.

00:35:35.000 If anyone thinks that they're not watching and paying attention, they're fooling themselves.

00:35:39.000 Well, I'm certainly grateful that there has been judicial relief.

00:35:43.000 I have filed amendments, debated for them, worked on coalitions, and the Democrats would not approve one amendment for even a vote of the full House of Representatives on the vaccine mandate.

00:35:53.000 They approved 650 amendments and not one on this issue, which is...

00:35:57.000 Which is really, I think, disgraceful.

00:35:59.000 But, you know, we did get judicial relief.

00:36:03.000 It does apply to the Air Force.

00:36:04.000 I do hope and pray and I implore the Department of Defense, use this as an opportunity to change your way of thinking, to change the way you treat our service members who just want the opportunity to make a patriotic contribution and who love our military.

00:36:19.000 I mean, the movement...

00:36:21.000 to have the DOD comply with their own regs is not a movement led by people who think America is a bad place or a racist place or an awful place.

00:36:29.000 These are folks who love our country.

00:36:32.000 We love it.

00:36:32.000 And there are a great many of them.

00:36:35.000 And I'm glad that there was a brave judge willing to step forward and issue this injunction.

00:36:39.000 We hope that this spurs more momentum, frankly, than we've seen yet.

Firebrand - Matt Gaetz - July 15, 2022

Episode 60 LIVE: No Vax, No Service (feat. MSgt. Nick Kupper) – Firebrand with Matt Gaetz

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