On today's episode, Myron and Chad debate whether or not they believe it was a lone gunman who killed 13 people in the San Francisco area in the late 1980s and early 1990s. They also debate the possibility that it was someone other than a member of the Cheadle family. They also discuss the lack of information provided by the FBI regarding the events that day, and if it can be proven that it wasn't a random attack by a single gunman, or was it the work of a group of people? Also, Chad and Myron give their thoughts on what they believe was the most likely suspect in the case of the Zodiac Killer, and whether they think it could have been a "lone gunman." Thanks to everyone for all of the support, stay tuned for Part 2 of this episode! Stay Tuned for Part 3 of this series coming soon! Thank you for all the continued support and stay tuned to Crimes of Passion and Crimetown for the continued coverage of this case! Stay tuned for the next episode of Crimes Of Passion, Crime, and Conspiracy Theories, coming soon. - Chad & Myron and the rest of the crew at CrimeStories. Chad and I are working on a new podcast, Crime Stalk, CrimeStalk. . Chad: Myron: , Confluence: . . . Chad: . , , and Chris: & Michael: ( ) - Chad: : James: ...and finally, we'll be back with a new segment on the case, ... John: ) ... and finally we'll talk about it all! (and we're back with our thoughts on it all the way through it all, and we'll see you in Part 2. , of course, of course we'll let you know what we can do about it! and we're all in the next one! And we'll get to the next part of the case of this whole thing! , right here on Crimes of the Case, right away! -- Thank you all of that, right? -- CHAD: ) -- CHAD AND JOSH: -- WE'LL HAVE A PODCAST & THE CRIMES OF THE JUDGMENT AND THE DECISION
00:03:43.000And you can also believe at the same time that she maybe didn't know the specifics in that day, unless she is directly involved in the attempted assassination.
00:03:52.000And you could also believe that she doesn't know the specific details about the time and events since the FBI has taken over all the investigation.
00:04:01.000Those things are not mutually exclusive.
00:04:05.000And to clarify, my point was not specific to her testimony yesterday, for which it's been well documented reasons for cul-de-sacs of truth or not being forthcoming with information.
00:04:17.000To go against one of those points, you said information that she wouldn't have access to.
00:04:21.000A lot of the questions are around things that she was directly told.
00:04:24.000And I know Myron has said third-party rule.
00:04:35.000Of course, the people still have questions because after yesterday's hearing, We've got questions.
00:04:40.000And even Myron is saying, after tomorrow's hearing, people are still going to have questions because the FBI is not going to give any answers.
00:04:48.000So also, yes, my second point was not specific only to her testimony, for which we've discussed at length, and I understand the points I've shared.
00:04:57.000I may have misunderstood something that he used in a hypothetical as things are looked at currently positioned as opposed to his whole personal contention.
00:05:06.000And Myron, you don't even have to feel free to, or you don't even feel compelled to answer this if you don't wish.
00:05:11.000It's just that in his discussion now and previous, I've heard no possibility for something more than a lone gunman.
00:05:18.000And I was asking more about his personal position, not as a function of the testimony, which has been discussed.
00:05:23.000Okay, so you weren't very clear on that?
00:05:24.000Because actually, Myron immediately, when he came on the space the very first time, said that both, this was before, as soon as something happened, he said both are available.
00:05:32.000I'm not going to put words in his mouth.
00:05:38.000So just to be clear, because his contention isn't all of the things that we thought it was.
00:05:44.000His contention is just that he believes that you believe that this was definitely just a lone gunman and there was nothing more nefarious at play.
00:05:51.000And it could be that I misunderstood your expression as running the current scenarios as the information is shared publicly.
00:05:57.000And if that's the position, I didn't mean to infer your personal state on that.
00:06:01.000What I'm saying is, when it comes to this gunman thing, from the information that I have, and the information that has been put out, to me it looks like one gunman.
00:06:10.000However, am I open to other theories of a second potential gunman?
00:06:30.000On a communication strategy point, if there's this overwhelming groundswell, like we had after JFK... And Confluence, just on that, because let's not skip, right?
00:06:41.000So, in terms of it being more than one Goodman, what's your position that it definitely was to more than one Goodman, or what's your position?
00:06:49.000Not necessarily, but I think with weighing all of the potentials and the likelihoods, I think we can't disguise that potential.
00:06:58.000So one second, let's take this one at a time.
00:07:01.000So you're in agreement because basically, even my position is that, look, what we do know that there was possibly 8 to 10 shots fired.
00:07:10.000We know that only one of those shots was fired by the Secret Service.
00:07:15.000Means the other shots were fired by...
00:07:19.000Whomever one considers the adversary or the...
00:07:23.000One miss by a local CS team of the two CS teams and then there was two Secret Service CS teams, one of which had a direct hit through the trees.
00:07:32.000Bongino calls it a one-in-a-million shot.
00:07:34.000Okay, so I haven't heard about the second shot.
00:07:55.000Means there's possibly seven to eight shots that have been fired from either the lone goodman or a second goodman.
00:08:01.000Now, we can't know, and this is what we've, I mean, this is what Myron's in.
00:08:04.000This is my position as well, but Myron can clarify if it's not his position.
00:08:07.000So, Yeah, I'm going to explain this to you guys here in a second.
00:08:09.000But we don't know if all them shots came from just Thomas Crooks because the problem is we've got no information about the types of bullets that were fired.
00:08:37.000Yeah, so my thoughts on that are, you know, for intimate details as far as like the bullets, trajectory, line of sight, etc.
00:08:44.000That's all going to be with the FBI. It's all going to be with the FBI. Secret Service isn't going to have any of that, which is, again, why Cheadle was so reluctant to answer questions when it came to that stuff.
00:08:54.000Anything that was like involved with the criminal investigation, she didn't really have information on because she's not privy to it.
00:09:01.000So Myron, you have an outside pressure of citizen investigations, and not to say that, of course, they're privy to the same access, but available intel and all sorts of cagey, anon researchers can get to some interesting information.
00:09:16.000And with this, the court of public opinion building so quickly and with no crime more interested by the greater earth and human history.
00:09:26.000This is something that needs to be competed with from a communication strategy standpoint.
00:09:31.000And the fact that every move has been so opaque, and you gave great reasons and spoke to the testimony yesterday, there's still more that can be done that hasn't been done, that this is a catastrophic failure.
00:09:42.000Just as the one in decades failure that you mentioned yesterday, this is a one in decades communication failure on the back of that.
00:09:49.000And that compounded with the failures and the person that happened to be in the place to take advantage, Point to something or many questions that need to be answered.
00:09:58.000And the fact that they aren't quelling this in any of their outward presentations, even a very limited press conference, where they get to see a face, they get to talk to a person, questions can be fielded.
00:10:46.000Because I think I just, like, I want to make this interesting.
00:10:49.000So, in terms of, you've explained, like, in terms of the possibility of being one or two goodmen, I think the greater question from this is, for me, irrespective of whether there's one goodman or two goodmen, is whether there was, this was one guy who lost his mind and did what he did,
00:11:07.000or whether there was something more nefarious at play.
00:11:09.000Now, one of the reports that came out was that Allegedly, he had three encrypted overseas bank accounts, Maren.
00:11:17.000Now, the question about that is, A, who would have found that out within the investigation process?
00:11:26.000Because, and I'll explain to you the reason why I'm asking that question.
00:11:29.000It's all FBI. That's going to be FBI. They probably did a grand jury subpoena, found his bank accounts.
00:11:35.000And a grand jury subpoena, guys, by the way, is how you...
00:11:38.000It's the best way to get bank accounts because when you do a grand jury subpoena, the bank doesn't have to notify the person that's holding the account that the government did a subpoena on your stuff.
00:11:47.000So that's the best way to get financial records.
00:11:50.000So that's how they were probably able to find that.
00:12:06.000I mean, my theory is this, that if this was someone like China, if his overseas account was like China, Russia, Iran, this would have been all over the news.
00:12:16.000The fact that it's not all over the news, again, question marks which foreign nation he had these bank accounts.
00:12:21.000And if they did find it, they'd make it classified immediately.
00:12:24.000If they found a link between him and foreign intelligence or an adversarial country, I don't know if they would make that public right now.
00:12:32.000They would probably classify it immediately and make that, you know, not something out for the public.
00:13:10.000Lindsay, I'm just going to drop you down and bring you back up if you can sort your headset out because it's breaking up in a significant manner.
00:13:23.000We're going to be wrapping up soon, but just before we do, Myron, from your perspective then, so the FBI has taken over this investigation, does that mean that we're never going to find out any information, not only wherever they decide to trickle down to us?
00:13:42.000Until they get like, either they conclude that there was no other conspirators or they have someone else in custody, they're probably not going to give that much information.
00:13:48.000The only time FBI shares a good amount of information is when they need the public's help to find somebody.
00:13:53.000That's typically when they release the most information.
00:15:13.000We know the line you're here to hold, and just be thankful you always get the seat from which to hold it.
00:15:19.000It'll be interesting to see your takes on things in there, and it's just not adding up.
00:15:24.000And in general, Myron, if I misunderstood your theorized position from current available info, as opposed to a position that you hold, Closer to your chest or your personal opinion.
00:15:36.000I'd love you to come to Suli's space tonight There will be an interesting discussion and you guys all rock and thank you for bringing the clarity Suli I don't think you always had me pegged but and also one last point and hopefully we can discuss this later It's hard to say who the final Parties would be but it's pretty easy to see that there's something more to be looked into here.
00:19:26.000Third, they asked questions about what happened on the ground on July 13, 2024.
00:19:29.000She is the United States Secret Service director.
00:19:31.000Directors are too far up in the chain to know or understand what's going on operationally.
00:19:35.000The head of the Trump's detail is the only one that will know everything on that day and probably cleared the operation plan, which is key.
00:19:41.000Four, they ask internal questions about firings within the U.S. Secret Service.
00:19:44.000The Department of Homeland Security, DHS, OIG, Office of Inspector General, and maybe the United States Office of Professional Responsibility are running the internal investigation and OIG doesn't have to answer to Cheadle.
00:19:54.000This hearing was the equivalent to you going to Chipotle and the cash register guy punches you and then you blame the Chipotle president and bring him in for questioning.
00:20:01.000Though he's the head of Chipotle and it looks good and entertaining to publicly hold him accountable, he won't really know or have the answers for that employee punching you.
00:20:10.000If you are actually serious about getting to the bottom of this, don't waste your time with Cheadle.
00:20:15.000FBI Special Agent Charge Kevin P. Rojack for the criminal investigation for the United States Secret Service failure, the head of Trump's security detail, whoever signed off on the operation plan, and then for the internal investigation, DHS Inspector General Joseph Kofari or United States OPR Director David M. Smith,
00:20:34.000And I was explaining that in the chat, and that's why I was getting this stupid fucking pushback from this guy that doesn't understand how the government works.
00:23:15.000Copenhaver, as well as former President Trump as they continue to recover.
00:23:20.000I'm humbled to be here today and testify about a tragic incident which has deeply impacted the Butler community, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and our nation.
00:23:29.000I would like to dedicate my testimony here today to the approximately 6,400 women and men, civilian and enlisted of the PSB, who work tirelessly for Pennsylvania, and it is my honor to lead them.
00:23:38.000I'd like to offer a perspective that this is very much an ongoing, complex, and dynamic investigation.
00:23:45.000And each day, as we arrive at day 10 today, I learn multiple new facts as we uncover new information as the investigation progresses.
00:23:54.000I'd like to offer a point of clarification affirmatively about PSP's role.
00:23:59.000Okay, so he's going to state what the state police's role was in that situation.
00:24:03.000Prior to the shooting, our role was to support the Secret Service with personnel and assets that they requested.
00:24:09.000Our operation plan completed to fulfill this responsibility consisted of 32 members, and we had two main responsibilities.
00:24:17.000A motorcade operation for the transportation with the Secret Service.
00:24:20.000So they have their own operation plan that they did?
00:24:22.000President Trump, as well as manning and staffing security posts inside the secure area of the Butler County Farm show.
00:24:31.000Additionally, we provided two marked cars with uniformed troopers outside of the secure perimeter to provide roving duties.
00:24:37.000As the name implies, responding to incidents that may occur as a large gathering of people were moving to the- So they're just patrolling, going back and forth?
00:24:45.000After the shooting, very early after the shooting, I had a conversation with the FBI, wherein the FBI is the responsible investigating agency for the attempted assassination of a former president under federal law.
00:24:57.000The same actions that led to that also led to the homicide of one Pennsylvanian and the attempted homicide of two additional, as well as The use of force by the Secret Service countersniper to neutralize the threat of Mr.
00:25:11.000Crooks, thus necessitating an officer-involved shooting investigation.
00:25:14.000So the PSP currently is conducting a criminal investigation parallel to and in concert with the FBI to identify any and all parties criminally culpable under Pennsylvania state law.
00:25:30.000As I said, we're additionally conducting an investigation into the U.S. Secret Service counter-sniper who neutralized the threat posed by Crooks after he opened fire.
00:25:40.000So anytime there's an officer involved shooting, guys, they have to investigate it and make sure that he acted within reason and it was a clean shoe.
00:25:50.000They're doing the murder investigation on the state side.
00:25:53.000And they're also doing, and the injuries, and they're also doing the, what's it called, the investigation into the officer that was the Secret Service agent that did the shooting.
00:26:05.000They have to do it anytime there's an officer-involved shooting.
00:26:07.000The Department of Homeland Security's commissioned after-action report.
00:26:11.000I can tell you that the Pennsylvania State Police will fully cooperate with that investigation, and it's my hope that I can answer some questions here today without sacrificing that ongoing investigation.
00:26:22.000And prove to be of value to the committee.
00:26:29.000Yose for five minutes to summarize his opening statement.
00:26:31.000Good morning, Chairman Green, Representative Thompson, and distinguished members of the House Committee on Homeland Security.
00:26:35.000My name is Patrick Yose, and I'm the national president of the Fraternal Auto Police, the nation's oldest and largest law enforcement labor organization.
00:26:41.000All right, so he's there to represent him, his union rep.
00:26:43.000When you're a uniform, guys, you can go ahead and get a union rep to come with you to stuff like this, because obviously you're under oath.
00:28:40.000Pennsylvania's an important state, guys, so of course they go there often.
00:28:42.000With the Secret Service, you kind of started off giving us, from the point of contact, That an occurrence was about to happen.
00:28:51.000Was there anything particular about the Butler, Pennsylvania event that stands out as regular, irregular, or anything?
00:29:01.000I would say, not to my knowledge, based on our discussions with our commanders who planned it, it progressed along a normal timeline.
00:29:09.000They attempted to give the Secret Service and I believe provided the Secret Service with everything they were requested.
00:29:14.000So your role on that day in terms of the state police was what?
00:29:18.000So I would classify it as in a support role, and the two main areas of responsibility for the state troopers that were assigned that day were those participating in the motorcade to get former President Trump from his point of landing to the venue in Butler County and back with several other additional entities that were requested by the Secret Service.
00:29:36.000And then on-site, we had to staff security posts that were determined by the Secret Service.
00:29:42.000All of those posts were inside of the secure perimeter of the Butler County Farm show.
00:29:47.000I guess I was one of those individuals who traveled to Butler.
00:29:51.000Just for my information, have you had any interaction with the FBI or anything as they look into the investigation as to what you or your men observed on that day?
00:30:05.000Yes, we're conducting an investigation largely in concert with and parallel to the Bureau because the actions of Crooks have federal legal implications and state law implications.
00:30:26.000And so we have federal, state, and local law enforcement at an event like what we're talking about in Butler.
00:30:34.000But in our conversation with some of the locals...
00:30:38.000Not state police, but the Sheriff's Department and the Chief of Police and Butler yesterday.
00:30:45.000Those individuals did not have communication with actually state police or Secret Service.
00:30:54.000Would that, in your professional opinion, be a vulnerability for managing a seriously injured?
00:31:01.000I'd like to pause for a moment of silence and remember for a prayer.
00:31:06.000I don't want to get locked into a timeline of three minutes before.
00:31:12.000That's probably a total number of time, amount of time that he...
00:31:16.000Okay, we're doing a moment of silence here, so let me go back currently.
00:31:32.000...for the Secret Service to operate all across the United States and have each individual agency telling the Secret Service how the operation should be run.
00:31:39.000If that was something that their protocols called for during the initial meeting when preliminary steps and agencies were brought together, that would be something that would be discussed typically.
00:31:50.000The AGR building, did your guys on the ground there ever voice concerns the Secret Service for not putting somebody on that building?
00:32:01.000I suppose the best sequence of events that I can give you is that PSP was notified by email on July 5th about this event.
00:32:08.000There was an initial planning meeting where we had commanders present on Monday, July 8th.
00:32:13.000So over Tuesday the 9th and Wednesday the 10th, those commanders that we designated, basically our orders are from the front office, my team on down.
00:32:23.000We work collaboratively with the Secret Service, collaborate, give them what we can.
00:32:28.000The final walkthrough occurred on the 11th.
00:32:31.000Present at that meeting were the two commanders that were tasked with both staffing the security checkpoints on the interior of the secure perimeter, as well as the commander who was going to be in charge of the motorcade.
00:32:42.000But in addition to that, a PSP area commander was on that walkthrough, holding the rank of major.
00:32:47.000Could you share a little bit of insight?
00:32:48.000I appreciate the timeline, but could you share a little bit?
00:32:52.000Yeah, the specific to the AGR building.
00:32:54.000So on that walkthrough, our area commander...
00:32:57.000Asked specifically who was responsible for the AGR building, and we were told that Butler ESU was responsible for that area by several Secret Service agents on that walkthrough.
00:33:28.000Commissioner Parrish, you talked about your tenure with the Pennsylvania State Police.
00:33:36.000Have you worked other events where a presidential candidate or the president has come?
00:33:43.000There's an infrastructure in place now to address these, you know, in our operabilities, but that's used to command center and interaction.
00:33:54.000Siloing makes sense, but we need to look at how we make it a clearer chain of communication to ensure that really important pieces of information, like identifying the shooter on the roof, doesn't get delayed in moving through those channels.
00:34:21.000We also want to thank all of you for being here today and for Speaker Johnson for putting together a bipartisan task force so we can get as much information to find out what happened here.
00:34:33.000Today's conversation regarding the attempted assassination of former President Trump is a critical one that I pray never happens again.
00:34:41.000Throughout my law enforcement career, I held many leadership positions, and through those roles, I've coordinated with the White House, advanced teams, state and local law enforcement, and doing some of these very same similar type events.
00:34:55.000And we have one goal in mind, and that's to keep people safe.
00:35:00.000Because of a massive failure in communication, President Trump was shot from a little more than a football field away.
00:35:07.000And because of the failure of former Secret Service leadership, especially the former director of spectators, were forced to do what the Secret Service failed to do, and that was to protect themselves from bullets.
00:35:21.000Ultimately, this led to the death of Corey Compertore, who gave his life while bravely shielding his wife and children during this terrible thing.
00:35:30.000Colonel, thank you for being here today, and I've said From the beginning, if you want answers, you got to talk to the men and women who were on the ground, the law enforcement officers who were out there, and who were taking directions and commands from the leadership of Secret Service and various other leaders.
00:35:48.000You testified that 32 members of PSP were assigned to various roles to assist the Secret Service.
00:36:08.000The former director testified yesterday that the building was outside the Secret Service perimeter.
00:36:14.000Did the U.S. Secret Service leadership direct local or state police that that was their job to secure the building?
00:36:22.000And if so, did they provide any guidance on this?
00:36:25.000So as I stated earlier, aside from the briefing that I received about the walkthrough when the question was raised and the response from the advance team of the Secret Service, the agents on the pre-plan, that that was going to be the responsibility of Butler ESU. I have no first-hand knowledge about any interaction between the Secret Service and any other entity,
00:38:22.000Woese, you testified clear and constant communication is crucial to ensure the security of the protectee.
00:38:32.000And that local law enforcement should be part of the command post to facilitate real-time information sharing and rapid response to emerging situations.
00:38:43.000As we all know, separate communications are necessary and effective during a large-scale event like this.
00:38:50.000There's no way everybody can be on the same channel.
00:38:53.000You talk over each other, you won't ever get anything done.
00:38:56.000But there must be some clear understandings through communications at the beginning So that split-second decisions can be made so there won't be a lapse in time and these terrible things happen.
00:39:09.000Would you like to just say a few words about that?
00:39:13.000Sir, there's no doubt when you look at how many people are involved in an operation like this, having everyone on one channel is difficult.
00:39:21.000But there are people within contained areas and their ability to be able to communicate as things change across platforms is crucial.
00:39:28.000In this case, we know that in seconds, things unfolded.
00:39:30.000In seconds, getting meaningful communication out to people who might be able to act on that communication is vital.
00:39:42.000I agree that not everyone should be on the same channel, but there are certain people within certain areas and perimeters that should be having communication or the ability to communicate a little more freer.
00:40:13.000On July 13th, we witnessed the Secret Service fail to secure a Pennsylvania field and keep the former president of the United States of America and the Americans that were gathered there safe.
00:40:25.000While President Trump thankfully survived this horrific attack, Corey Competore, a volunteer fire chief, a father, and a husband died.
00:40:36.000While shielding his family from the assassin's bullets.
00:40:39.000Two others, David Dutch and James Copenhaver, were both struck by bullets and are still recovering.
00:42:16.000Menendez had similar questions, but I just want to reiterate because I think it's critically important.
00:42:22.000Of the dozens of times that you've dealt with visits from the President of the United States, and I'm sure you've thought about this dozens and dozens of times at this point, and read through emails and thought about different incidents, compared to the incident on July 13th,
00:42:38.000was there anything different from the way that this was handled?
00:44:02.000As I stated earlier, based on everything I know up until day 10, I only am going to comment on the Pennsylvania State Police, and it's my belief as I sit here, based on all the information that I have, that we met or exceeded our expectations for that event.
00:44:19.000Am I saying that the event was a success?
00:44:28.000Translation, we're not the lead agency.
00:44:29.000I will echo the fact that local law enforcement plays a huge role and must.
00:44:33.000I don't think the federal agencies have the ability with bandwidth to be able to have this event without coordinated effort with local law enforcement.
00:44:41.000To my knowledge, local law enforcement did what their responsibilities and directions were.
00:44:45.000Uros, we've The United States Secret Service established and managed the primary command post.
00:44:58.000Would you agree, Colonel, that in the United States of America, we have a serious issue when it comes to law enforcement and communicating through multiple jurisdictions and agencies at a singular event?
00:45:13.000I would say the short answer is it depends, but communications are always a critical piece to any successful operation.
00:45:18.000So I agree it does depend, but I do have a concern.
00:45:22.000When some people's lives are on the lines, when we are supposed to be protecting an asset, regardless of who it is, but especially someone who was the President of the United States, the fact that law enforcement agencies are communicating at such a critical time via text message is a problem.
00:45:41.000And it's one that I think this committee and other committees need to take a real hard look at.
00:45:55.000I think we all agree that none of us ever wanted to be holding a hearing like this.
00:46:00.000As we have covered, the Secret Service relies on federal, state, and local partners to coordinate and secure events to ensure the safety of its protectee.
00:46:11.000As both of you rightly emphasized in your testimony, Secret Service is the ultimate responsible and the final arbiter of any and all security matters affecting their protectee.
00:46:26.000Yose, you also went on to highlight the importance of mutual respect, trust, and shared commitment.
00:46:33.000In the relationship between Secret Service, the state, and locals.
00:46:36.000I was pleased to learn that Director Cheadle has tendered her resignation.
00:46:40.000This is the first time we have seen real accountability from the Director following July the 13th.
00:46:47.000It is my hope the truth will now come.
00:46:50.000Her lack of leadership following the assassination attempt has not only impeded the ongoing investigation and eroded the public's trust, but it is also the potential to erode The mutual respect and trust that are fundamental to this relationship between the Secret Service and partners they rely on.
00:47:08.000Colonel Parris, I understand that state and locals were the ones that first alerted the command center of a suspicious individual some 20 minutes before he started shooting.
00:48:20.000Every radio has, you can have hundreds of different frequencies.
00:48:23.000But as far as you're not sure if they have a digital radio system or if they're using another conventional UHF or VHF frequency or something of that nature.
00:48:33.000In answer to the first part, I'm not an expert on radios.
00:48:36.000I can't render an opinion on what their system is, but the only answer I would provide is my understanding is there are certain encrypted capabilities that the Secret Service has to maintain that may provide difficulty in what would otherwise be.
00:48:52.000If we had a regular incident, we were able to set up a patch to communicate across agencies.
00:48:57.000Colonel Paris, as you just shared, after state and locals identified the shooter as suspicious, they relayed that information to Secret Service and were given a number to send their concerns to.
00:49:10.000Is this standard operating procedures to be left a phone number to give your information to, rather than direct communications through radio?
00:49:21.000I don't want to say that it's standard operating procedure, but if it was a system or a measure that worked to push that information to the people who needed it in the most expeditious means, I wouldn't be averse to going away from standard protocols.
00:49:35.000You said that you had done this type of event with other presidents or in your state.
00:49:42.000In past history, is this how it usually was done?
00:49:46.000I can't say that I have had a personal experience about...
00:49:50.000I've obviously been present when there were suspicious people that came out over the radio and law enforcement was seeking them, but I can't say that I have a frame of reference exactly on point here, sir.
00:49:59.000Did the Secret Service provide rules of engagement for state and locals?
00:50:03.000Did y'all have to authorize a green light for fire, or do you go by your day-to-day activity?
00:50:09.000We would go by the policy and regulations and state law that cover the Pennsylvania State Police.
00:50:16.000Another thing that stood out to me with a background in emergency medical services is when the president was brought off, you saw his SUV move about 20 feet and then it sat there.
00:50:28.000We watched as a lady in a skirt walked in front of the SUV. We watched as other law enforcement people, spectators, whatever, Did you notice that that seemed to be a long time for the president to be sitting for someone that had taken a bullet?
00:53:03.000Why weren't security teams, sir, on-site able to spot a 20-year-old kid with zero camouflage crawling up a white roof with an AR-15 that several rally-goers were screaming and yelling and pointing out and they noticed him and they weren't even there to conduct security.
00:53:22.000They were there to watch the president.
00:53:24.000Do you have any idea why the security teams couldn't find that guy?
00:53:29.000Would the gentleman yield for just a second on that?
00:53:32.000So just for clarification, it was the ESU guys that were manning those buildings, and they left because of the call of the suspicious person.
00:53:41.000So they left their post there to go look for him.
00:53:45.000They're the same individuals who attempted to climb up the building and were scared away by the shooter pointing the gun, right?
00:53:52.000I'm just wondering why they weren't able to find him, because even while they were looking, they could have still looked out that window that they had access to.
00:54:21.000Why do you think that a lot of Americans are like, this doesn't add up, this doesn't make sense, guys.
00:54:26.000How could this many things have gone wrong?
00:54:29.000Like the things I pointed out, a 20-year-old kid got 150 yards of the President of the United States with an AR-15, flew a drone to conduct site surveillance, was spotted with a rangefinder, ranging targets, then lost, Had advanced explosive devices on him with no military training.
00:54:50.000Nobody was placed in the most obvious spot to conduct counter-sniper operations.
00:54:54.000I was a sniper in the SEAL team's colonel.
00:54:57.000As soon as I got out of the SUV and I saw that water tower, I was like, that's exactly where I'd be.
00:55:05.000After partisan attempts to bankrupt him, imprison him for 750 years, and countless depictions as a modern-day Hitler, are you surprised, sir, that a lot of Americans are like, maybe there's more to this story?
00:55:21.000I wouldn't begin to speculate about what the American people think, sir.
00:55:25.000Colonel, did your team make an investigation at the suspect's home?
00:56:19.000The last thing I want to enter into the record, Mr.
00:56:21.000Chairman, this is an article, opinion from, I believe, the Washington Post...
00:56:41.000And I think even though we want to dodge around it and not make this partisan, I think we all know that a lot of this has to do with the rhetoric, the very violent rhetoric that has led up to this.
00:57:26.000So this is a picture I took yesterday on the grounds, looking out of that second story window that has the corridor that connects the AGR building, the American Glass Research Building, with where the shooter's location,
00:57:41.000and I'm going to stand up and I'm going to point to the shooter's location as we were made aware.
00:57:48.000From that X is where the shooter was shared with us.
00:57:54.000From this viewpoint, there's some videos that make it look like he's more this direction, but from the perception, it kind of is confusing.
00:58:02.000But he was more towards that opposite side.
00:58:05.000This window, second story, it's the second window from the right side.
00:58:13.000That window has this view where they could clearly, those ESU officers that were stationed, given access by the property owner to that window, could see the shooter had they stayed in that manned position.
00:58:26.000This is there moving towards the location of President Trump with the red barns back here.
00:58:33.000And you can see a window here that is absolutely going to obstruct the view.
00:58:38.000To be able to look to the 20 or 30 different barn structures, the cattle building, the sheep building, the hog building, the rodeo arena by the pond.
00:58:46.000The many structures are 50 buildings within a 500-yard radius of where President Trump was at.
00:58:53.000Do you see a problem with that window being in the way of someone being able from this position to be able to take care of the asset?
00:59:04.000A casement window would Present a tactical concern for full field.
00:59:09.000And I understand, potentially, you know, this was air conditioning on top of this second story building, was it?
00:59:13.000And so maybe that was a consideration.
00:59:15.000But ultimately, Secret Service is the one who made the determination of placement or contacting or making sure the plan was in coordination with the property owner for allowing, gaining admittance from the property owner for this second story window.
01:00:23.000With the two minutes that you said that there was an opportunity from the time that they were hoisted up, looked at the shooter...
01:00:31.000You're given the responsibility, as this is delegating the outer perimeter, to secure the area.
01:00:37.000Why weren't they able to immediately call their supervisor, who would then be authorized to issue a hold on the asset, or a get him off the stage call?
01:00:46.000Why does it have to be, as your testimony says, they took a picture, sent it to Secret Service, 20 minutes before the incident, the shooting, and they have to wait for a response.
01:00:59.000Why is not the line of communication, I understand they're on different radio frequencies, why were they not empowered to say, if we send something suspicious, then state police, local law enforcement, Sheriff's department, each one, the head official of each one of those departments, if we entrusted them with enough responsibility to secure that environment,
01:01:16.000then we ought to give them the responsibility to issue a hold call because of something that they see as a threat.
01:01:22.000Are they empowered to do that, or does it have to all go through Secret Service to issue a hold?
01:01:37.000I don't know what the protocol would be to issue the hold order.
01:01:41.000And just as a point of clarification that I tried to clean up with the Congressman from New Jersey before, when the two municipal officers were, one was hoisted- Can I jump on that?
01:01:50.000Two to three minutes because I get limited time here.
01:01:52.000Just to make sure, that was seconds before.
01:01:54.000That was seconds before Crooks started firing.
01:01:58.000Okay, you had said earlier today it was two to a few minutes, but you're saying seconds before.
01:02:00.000I cleaned that up for the second time.
01:02:03.000But even if they're hoisting, your testimony today, if I understood you correctly, it was two different officers that were hoisting to get a look at him, not the ones who were manned in this view.
01:02:15.000So had they remained in there, they immediately would have seen the incident taking place if they were on the same line of communication, and they could have taken the asset out.
01:02:24.000I'm remiss to say that because I don't know what their general rules of engagement and assignment were from the Secret Service.
01:02:29.000It just looks to me like a major breakdown of communication.
01:02:32.000This procedure looks to me like it is lapsed with the ability of someone who, if they entrust them with the ability to secure these perimeter, they ought to be empowered enough to be able to give the authority on their comms to issue a hold.
01:02:52.000I'm going to say this because I have thoroughly enjoyed both of your testimony today.
01:03:00.000There are a lot of guys up here on both sides of the aisle that are charged about this.
01:03:05.000Their emotion is not intended to communicate a lack of trust in the Pennsylvania State Police.
01:03:14.000You're being incredibly helpful today.
01:03:17.000Some of the things that we've discovered from your testimony have brought some frustration to our folks, and I hope you'll understand it in that context, that the energy is not directed at you.
01:03:30.000The failure to set up appropriate communication systems and to make decisions when they become aware of someone pointing a rangefinder is what's got people upset, and that's on Secret Service.
01:03:47.000I just wanted to make sure y'all heard that from me.
01:04:02.000Chairman, for having this hearing and for organizing this committee's trip to Butler, Pennsylvania.
01:04:08.000For us, being on the ground in Butler, Pennsylvania yesterday made clear the severity of the security failures on Saturday, July 13th.
01:04:19.000Those failures that almost allowed former President Donald Trump to be assassinated.
01:04:27.000Unfortunately, what has followed that failed assassination attempt is an erosion of public trust related to those responsible for keeping...
01:04:52.000Keeping the president and the attendees of the rally safe.
01:04:57.000We've heard that because of a sloped roof, law enforcement was not able to safely secure the area that day.
01:05:03.000We've heard reports that certain officers abandoned their posts due to weather conditions.
01:05:08.000We've heard the Secret Service attempt to shift blame to state and local law enforcement, asserting that they failed to secure certain areas in the perimeter.
01:05:18.000Secret Service Chief Cheadle's resignation this morning is the first of many steps that need to be taken, and today's hearing is just the beginning of our process to get clear, accurate information about this issue,
01:05:37.000about the failures associated with that day, and ensure that not only Congress, but that the American public get the answers that they deserve about these events.
01:05:50.000The Secret Service is always the lead in providing security for these types of events that involve one of their protectees, but they clearly rely on their partnerships with state and local law enforcement as they move to different locations around the country.
01:06:05.000Are you concerned that former Director Cheadle's comments to ABC News, which many people heard as blame shifting to local law enforcement, Could undermine the level of trust between state and local authorities and Secret Service when they come to communities around America.
01:06:38.000And that relationship is built on trust.
01:06:40.000And when comments were made like what made on ABC, then we felt the need to call her out on it.
01:06:49.000And do you believe that the federal government's statements to the public, to the American people, after this attempted assassination, have helped or harmed public trust and law enforcement overall?
01:07:03.000The very powers that we have or the ability to do our job as law enforcement officers is directly related to trust.
01:07:11.000And in an investigation, there's a fine line between what you do in order to protect an investigation and also be accountable to the public you serve.
01:07:19.000And when you don't walk that fine line, then it does create distrust.
01:07:29.000Sharing accurate information is important to keep everyone informed so that it doesn't run in different directions.
01:07:36.000And as the American people wait for an after-action report, what can or should law enforcement agencies at any level be doing to address concerns about transparency and protect that public trust?
01:08:04.000And sharing this information lets everyone know exactly what occurred and gives us some insight of things that we need to correct.
01:08:12.000And you've been here now throughout this day, throughout questioning from a number of members of this committee.
01:08:18.000As this committee continues to investigate the failures that resulted in this shooting, what are some of the key questions that you believe should be asked about the assassination attempt as well as the management and organization of Secret Service more broadly?
01:08:33.000Well, again, I have to be upfront in the fact that I have no direct knowledge to this incident or things that unfold.
01:08:41.000I'll just speak in just general terms.
01:08:43.000The first question that I think we all need to ask is, with so many elevated positions available, What steps were taken to protect those assets?
01:08:52.000I don't know the answer to that, but there were a lot of places.
01:08:55.000I mean, we learned a lot of lessons going back to President Kennedy.
01:09:00.000Higher locations create unique problems, and as a result, they should have been part of any action plan.
01:09:36.000My concern actually started on July the 5th when I was told that President Former President Trump was coming to Butler, and I said, that's great.
01:09:46.000And they said, yeah, and he's going to be at the Butler Farm Show.
01:09:48.000I said, you must mean the Big Butler Fair.
01:11:19.000President Trump would not have been wounded.
01:11:22.000And two other people who were there that day would not have been wounded.
01:11:25.000And in a greater sense, the American people have been wounded in a way that they have lost faith, trust, and confidence in how we protect certain people.
01:11:37.000This goes far beyond that, and I appreciate you both being here, and I'll tell you what, you really have given us testimony based on what your whole careers have been about, and that is protecting people.
01:11:48.000For some reason, on July 13th, we knew something was wrong.
01:11:57.000Every person I've talked to that was there that day or responsible for protection says, we did our job.
01:12:07.000And I said, so then you're saying that somebody else didn't do their job.
01:12:10.000And the answer is, well, that's to be decided later on.
01:12:14.000So I would just say, first of all, somebody else didn't do their job.
01:12:16.000And the answer is, well, I meant what I said.
01:12:19.000I think the American people now are deeply wounded, and the faith, trust, and confidence we need to have in our government has been fading for too long.
01:12:47.000For President Trump to have been wounded, or two other members in the audience that day to have been wounded, had we done what we knew before we let it go any further than that.
01:12:57.000That could have been stopped early on.
01:12:59.000Nobody can convince me that when people see somebody on the roof of a building, And pointing to him and yelling, there's somebody up there.
01:14:42.000So you'll follow me and then we'll go around.
01:14:46.000I just want to get back to this text message that was sent at about 20 to 25 minutes prior.
01:14:55.000That text message was a picture of Crook's Was it a picture of him pointing the rangefinder or of him just looking suspicious?
01:15:08.000Chairman, I have not seen the picture that was sent, so I don't know.
01:15:13.000My understanding is, to the best of my briefings, it was the pictures that were initially taken by Butler ESU. Okay, so that was the 62 minute prior.
01:15:28.000Saw him pointing a rangefinder and taking range readings, right?
01:15:37.000I think I don't want to speculate as to what he actually was doing with the rangefinder, but the rangefinder, my understanding is, was the heightened suspicion.
01:16:02.000But there was concern, and that was relayed to the command post.
01:16:08.000And that was a PSP guy in the Secret Service command post via a text message 20-something minutes before, and you'd think it included the fact that the guy had a range finder.
01:16:24.000Then you mentioned that the two ESU guys that were in the second story, it's honestly, in truth, to me, it appears to be a second building behind it that got joined by all these different...
01:16:37.000The breakup of that whole complex and the intricacies of, you know, places to hide and move around, you know, all the little alleyways is because they built tunnelways or...
01:16:50.000Not tunnels, but hallways that were covered between each of these different buildings.
01:16:54.000So it's actually a separate building with a...
01:17:16.000My understanding is it was the grounds around there...
01:17:20.000To see it photographed now or on your tour yesterday without scores of people traversing from different parking areas to make ingress into the secure perimeter that there was a concerted effort to try and identify and make contact with him.
01:17:36.000In conjunction with other, I was briefed that there were two other suspicious individuals that, simultaneous to this, not terribly too far away, distance-wise, I don't have the specifics, but this is all occurring contemporaneously.
01:17:50.000But one of them, Crooks, had a rangefinder.
01:17:52.000And so they leave and they go, look, he's suspicious.
01:17:55.000That leaves that building with two sets of eyes that could have observed it, granted, by exposing themselves.
01:18:02.000And by the way, I would think they could stay in the building as opposed to being on top of it for their own sort of defilade position.
01:18:41.000Guys, he's not going to know any of this.
01:18:42.000A very concerted effort with all of those alcoves and all of those buildings was made.
01:18:47.000There were two additional officers who, again, I don't know the specifics of the timeline.
01:18:51.000I don't know the specifics of the logistics of how that information was relayed, but I'm briefed that they came and they made a very concerted effort to try and locate crooks.
01:19:01.000But it seems to me that that was leaving that Extra set of eyes on top of the building.
01:19:09.000It would be something I, if I were the site commander at that point, I'd want to know two guys are leaving a post where they have observation on a building and that somebody relayed that to me so that I would know, wait a minute, now two sets of eyes that were on the building.
01:19:33.000The commander's going to know that that guy's moved away from there, and now he's got a blind spot, right?
01:19:37.000So I just want to make sure, I want to dig into that a little more.
01:19:40.000Obviously, you don't have the answer, so we'll dig elsewhere, but I find it interesting that they leave, this guy is so suspicious, has a rangefinder, they leave their post that they are manning to go look for him, yet Secret Service, and they get told about it 20 to 25 minutes beforehand,
01:19:58.000but Secret Service still lets the president go on the stage.
01:20:01.000I'm just I'm totally blown away by that, but again, there's more details to be had.
01:21:13.000Bigger question is, who okays, who approves the site of an event?
01:21:19.000And I come back to what I said earlier, which is one of those officers on the ground said, Lou, he said, who's in charge?
01:21:28.000The Secret Service says, good or bad, does the campaign then say good or bad, or does the campaign have the ability to override the Secret Service at an event?
01:21:42.000And I say, and I ask this question from you, Commissioner Paris, you're going to have to make these decisions here real soon.
01:22:13.000And I want to know how we can help you clarify these lines of command, so to speak, to make sure that we minimize the possibilities of this happening again.
01:22:45.000And that's why these congresspeople piss me off sometimes.
01:22:47.000They're very fucking condescending, dude.
01:22:49.000In the legislature, in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, we are very supported.
01:22:53.000And we have the resources, I believe, moving forward to rise to the occasion.
01:23:01.000The Secret Service remains the agency with the most experience, traditionally, when you talk about organizational knowledge to carry this forward.
01:23:10.000Like, bro, this guy's like the head of the state police.
01:23:12.000He doesn't give a fuck what you think, you stupid congressman.
01:23:29.000A robust republic and we want to secure people's ability to express their views and we have worked diligently and will continue to work diligently to make sure that that happens, sir.
01:23:44.000Commissioner Paris, you are the thin blue line.
01:24:00.000They cannot let one bad thing happen as they did on the 13th.
01:24:07.000I want to make sure that we know, that we give the Secret Service the ability to make those decisions when it comes to the safety of our candidates and elected officials.
01:24:19.000And for the third time, I'm going to repeat those words that were told to me by An individual, law enforcement individual, on the ground when he said, Lou, who's in charge?
01:25:25.000I think your candor, Colonel Parris, has been very refreshing, and it paints a clear contrast from what was the testimony of the director of the Secret Service yesterday, who's now resigned.
01:25:37.000But her resignation doesn't resolve a thing.
01:25:40.000And in fact, the criminal investigation that your department is undertaking, that presumably Butler authorities may be involved in, FBI is undertaking, those don't really resolve anything.
01:25:51.000They affix criminal liability of someone who's presumably, if they acted alone, is dead.
01:25:56.000What is the most important issue is we have a national security crisis.
01:26:01.000We have, right now, the only person who's been inactivated, as I understand it, is the sharpshooter who took the perp out The people who made what appear to be unbelievably horrendous decisions.
01:26:23.000And we have multiple protectees moving around the country every day.
01:26:28.000And those same people, I don't even know if they've changed anything about what they're doing.
01:26:32.000Presumably you would think so, but we don't know that.
01:26:35.000So I think we need to learn as much as possible from you.
01:26:39.000I will say as a note of departure, I don't think, from what I've heard, you've made pretty clear the Pennsylvania State Police didn't do anything wrong.
01:26:47.000I don't know whether Butler County ESU might have done something wrong, so let me bear into that.
01:26:53.000But it's clear to me as a bell that Secret Service, and that's everyone's characterized as a colossal failure, because it's obvious to everyone concerned that that's the case.
01:27:02.000The two who were, I'm going to get one thing I understand transpired while I was absent from the hearing for a bit.
01:27:07.000Do I understand that the two Butler ESU officers who one hoisted the other to the roof line where the Just so you guys know, that's not the same agency as this guy.
01:27:19.000Those were two different ESU officers than the ones that originally spotted crooks from the second floor.
01:27:27.000Just to be clear, my understanding is the two officers that responded and one hoisted up the second one were not part of Butler ESU. They were two separate municipal officers who were tasked with A different responsibility.
01:28:05.000Were they posted there in order to maintain overwatch on the roof, or were they generally assigned roving responsibility to be in the vicinity of that building?
01:28:17.000I can't answer that, and I would defer to the Secret Service as to what the communication was and the assignment given.
01:29:12.000Was the picture of Crooks that they took, did they take that picture and send it up to their command about 20-25 minutes before the shooting?
01:29:20.000What I want to be specific about is when the PSP member in the command post received it, and I believe that's in the vicinity of 20-25 minutes with the caveat prior put on the record about A series of events, not a timeline minute by minute.
01:29:37.000I believe the pictures of Crooks were taken at some point before that when he was identified as being suspicious based on my prior testimony from the briefings that I had because he was...
01:30:01.000My understanding is that there was a very concerted effort at that point to actively search and locate him and dispel that suspicion.
01:30:09.000You mentioned that you have asked for, not received, I don't know what you call it, the site plan, but from the Secret Service has not been given to you.
01:30:16.000Has there been anything else that you've asked for in the course of your investigation that's been denied or made inaccessible to you other than the site plan?
01:30:25.000No, I'm not aware of anything else that we've asked for, and we have not been denied.
01:30:29.000I just believe we haven't received it yet, so I want to make sure I'm not mischaracterizing that we asked for it and we have yet to receive it.
01:30:43.000Colonel, I want to reiterate the appreciation this committee has for your energy, your stamina, your focus, your candor.
01:30:51.000It's regrettable that some of our federal colleagues are not at the table with you today.
01:30:55.000We would have liked to extract for them some of the facts from 10 days ago.
01:31:00.000My colleagues from both sides of the aisle, I think, asked good, fair questions of you, and you gave good, fair, accurate responses to them.
01:31:07.000That helps us understand July 13th a little more.
01:31:12.000We're probably only in the infancy of that investigation of our oversight responsibilities, but you've provided us a lot.
01:31:18.000I want to use the remainder of my time to look forward.
01:31:21.000There's going to be a lot of, you know, Conjecture about what happened, who's at fault, but putting that aside.
01:31:28.000We've talked about flaws that happened on July 13th, be it tactical flaws about communication, strategic ones like lack of drones, administrative ones like command and control and who has what authority, what are the rules of engagement.
01:31:42.000So I wanted to ask you, Colonel, and it's been said, Pennsylvania is going to have a number of more rallies, appearances, where the public is going to interact with presidential candidates from both sides of the aisle.
01:31:55.000How are you going to assert yourself in your leadership role to reduce the likelihood of an incident like this, specifically with respect to tactics?
01:32:03.000We understand that radio communications were a weakness.
01:32:08.000Do you have a perspective on looking forward, how you might command your officers in a different manner to ensure that from a tactical perspective, specifically with communications, these events are held differently in the future, sir?
01:32:22.000So yes, I will start with referring to the testimony of Congressman Luttrell about reinforcing and reiterating to try and mitigate any potential complacency.
01:32:33.000The Pennsylvania State Police maintains the Pennsylvania Criminal Intelligence Center.
01:32:37.000We're always trying to lean forward and glean as much criminal intelligence as we can, not only generated within the ranks of the Pennsylvania State Police, but our local partners, our county partners, and then through task force collaborations that we have with multiple federal agencies.
01:32:52.000I can tell you that we will not back away from the Secret Service.
01:32:56.000We will lean forward to support them and all of the resources of the Pennsylvania State Police will be brought to bear to keep Pennsylvanians and those visiting the Commonwealth safe.
01:33:06.000Have you considered communications specifically?
01:33:08.000Different radios, training on those radios, other communications devices, be it digital or voice or whatever.
01:33:15.000Have you considered prospectively either acquire new technology, implementing new training, or otherwise developing tactics that allow not only state and local to communicate?
01:35:18.000There is something that these future endeavors which we've committed at the top of the testimony to be a part of proves that we can be better.
01:35:26.000We're always looking every day to get better.
01:35:28.000I know that members are allowed to, through the appropriations process, advocate for more resources to come to their state and local law enforcement partners for things like communications devices.
01:35:40.000I know that I've been able to lean into that process here, and I'm sure that Mr.
01:35:44.000Kelly and others from the Pennsylvania delegation would Endeavor to use federal funds to help augment your ability to increase your ability to communicate among each other and also with federal partners.
01:35:56.000Thinking a little more outside the bubble in the days and weeks leading up to an event.
01:36:01.000Colonel, do you have a sense on prospectively technology that you use, like drones, other decisions you might make, like stationing somebody on a nearby high...
01:36:36.000So we need to get this higher than this because his engagement is 5.3 and it's just climbing.
01:36:45.000So that's what I mean, guys, when he gets his engagement because he's going to hit the top of his thing.
01:36:48.000He's like, damn, this is what the people want.
01:36:50.000Vantage Point, Leica Water Tower, you've heard some feedback from some informed members here today.
01:36:54.000Are those things helpful for you to plan moving forward to seize opportunities, both technological and physical, for events moving forward?
01:37:03.000You know, our undercover assets and the surveillance and intelligence gathering is something we rely on heavily.
01:37:09.000We do have Some drone capabilities that we're always looking to augment, but they're a phenomenal tool and certainly their use will only expand into the future, probably long after my career and somebody who comes well after.
01:37:21.000But we're always looking to lean forward and do the job better.
01:37:24.000And the text message was sent to, was there any comment or discussion in the command center about the advisability of Keeping the president off the stage until the matter was resolved, either at that moment or later.
01:37:41.000I do not know, and I would only underscore what I said before, the distinction between suspicion versus a threat.
01:37:49.000At that point, I think concerning, but it was still, the perspective at the time was suspicious and not yet a threat.
01:38:15.000Did ESU have command officers in the command center?
01:38:21.000That was asked earlier, and like I said, I received a briefing that my understanding was that there were Butler County representatives in the command post, but I cannot definitively tell you from any briefings that I've had who and when they were there.
01:38:37.000Do you have any insight why the Butler ESU officers transmitted that information to a PSP representative rather than to a Butler ESU representative in the command center?
01:38:48.000I understand that there was a The Butler-ESU person from whom it came and the PSP member to whom it was sent, they essentially knew one another.
01:39:01.000Was there any mechanism in place To monitor the location presence of the ESU officers who were at the second floor window and departed from there to go look for crooks.
01:39:16.000Was that any kind of communication ongoing in the command center about that?
01:39:27.000Is that a regular practice in PSP operations to have someone monitoring the location presence, posting, absence from posts of members of your force?
01:39:40.000I would say, in general, you need to know where your assets are deployed, but I would also say, depending on what the prior rules of engagement are, there may be a situation that could realistically, outside of the example we're discussing today, that we would expect our people to make a And a decision in the immediate moment to address another issue.
01:40:21.000Lalota said that I want to emphasize and underline, which is Gentlemen, I hope you lean forward when it comes to making decisions, making what your gut tells you is the right decision when you're out there trying to protect American lives,
01:40:40.000The situation is an interesting one because in this committee, we have been talking about domestic terrorism as being a bigger threat to the United States than foreign terrorism.
01:40:52.000And I would imagine, based on the facts that we know him today, this is a domestic individual that God knows what motivated him to do what he's doing.
01:41:06.000He was looking up information according to what I've read.
01:41:11.000He was looking up both Democrat and Republican candidates.
01:41:14.000God knows what set him off or where he was going.
01:41:18.000Or what targets he was really focused on, other than possibly the opportunity.
01:41:24.000This is not good news because this is essentially a lone wolf, it would appear.
01:42:12.000I have an easy answer for you on that one.
01:42:15.000I will tell you that we live in extraordinary times right now where we've gone from talking to people to talking at people.
01:42:23.000And I think what you see over a period of time, this has eroded to a part where...
01:42:29.000Guys, I'm going to go to fucking sleep.
01:42:30.000This guy, these dudes, number one, they're dragging this.
01:42:34.000The state police guy doesn't have answers for anything real.
01:42:37.000It's like, bro, you got to talk to the fucking FBI. We need to talk to the FBI. We got to know what the hell's going on in the investigation.
01:42:42.000That's going to be what really happens.