Fresh & Fit - Matthew Cox On Becoming FBI's Most Wanted Con Man, $55 Million In Fraud, Prison & MORE

00:00:00.000 Thank you.

00:12:57.000 What's up, guys?

00:12:57.000 Welcome to Fresh Air Podcast.

00:12:58.000 We're here with Matt Cox.

00:12:58.000 We got a lot to talk about.

00:12:59.000 Let's get to it, baby!

00:13:00.000 Let's go.

00:13:51.000 What's up, guys?

00:13:51.000 Welcome to the Fresh Fit Podcast.

00:13:53.000 Man, it is Money Monday, and we are here with a legend, Matt Cox.

00:13:55.000 We had a lot to talk about, man.

00:13:56.000 We were chapping it up a little bit before the show.

00:13:58.000 Sorry for the delay.

00:13:59.000 Quick announcement against the show, guys, and I apologize if my voice sounds crazy.

00:14:02.000 I was sick the past few days from the RNC, but rumble.com slash Fresh Fit.

00:14:06.000 Check us out over there.

00:14:07.000 Also, castleclub.tv, as you guys know, that is the home base for us, so you know where to find us at any time, castleclub.tv.

00:14:13.000 And anything else?

00:14:14.000 Oh yeah, Yacht Party.

00:14:15.000 August 10th, guys.

00:14:16.000 FFPod.org, man.

00:14:17.000 Go ahead and get in there.

00:14:17.000 We got a big yacht.

00:14:18.000 You want to talk about it in a little bit?

00:14:19.000 We got from 9pm to 1am.

00:14:20.000 Three stories.

00:14:21.000 Free bar and food as well.

00:14:23.000 A lot of girls.

00:14:24.000 A bunch of girls are going to be there. 1.00

00:14:26.000 Celebrities too.

00:14:26.000 Don't miss it.

00:14:27.000 We'll see you guys August 10th, 9pm to 1am.

00:14:29.000 Yep.

00:14:29.000 And the price point, we went ahead and made it more affordable for you guys, $9.98.

00:14:33.000 Yep.

00:14:33.000 Free to get an open bar, free food, a big yacht with 350 people.

00:14:37.000 Hey, man, you're not going to find that price point.

00:14:38.000 And we're going to be there, too, man.

00:14:39.000 And we're going to have a bunch of girls, and we're going to be there with some other influencers as well.

00:14:42.000 Sneak on, we're trying to get them over there.

00:14:43.000 Yeah.

00:14:43.000 And whoever else is in town, Zerka, probably.

00:14:45.000 So it's going to be a good time, guys.

00:14:46.000 So check us out on that yacht, August 10th.

00:14:49.000 It's that Saturday, 9 p.m.

00:14:50.000 to 1 a.m.

00:14:51.000 It's going to be a good time.

00:14:52.000 But without further ado, we've got a special guest in the house, man.

00:14:56.000 Welcome, Matt.

00:14:56.000 This interview has been in the works for a bit.

00:14:58.000 I'm so happy to have you here, man.

00:14:59.000 We were chopping it up a little bit before the show.

00:15:01.000 Come from different backgrounds, which is interesting because like adversarial almost, but it's great to be able to be on a podcast and have a discussion about it.

00:15:08.000 I appreciate you guys having me.

00:15:10.000 Is this good?

00:15:11.000 Yeah, we got you.

00:15:12.000 So, Matt, we know who you are, but can you introduce yourself to the people real quick?

00:15:17.000 My name is Matt Cox and I owned a mortgage company.

00:15:22.000 I did, depending on who you believe, roughly $55 million in mortgage fraud.

00:15:27.000 I was on the FBI's most wanted list.

00:15:31.000 I was number one on the Secret Service's most wanted list.

00:15:33.000 I was on the run for three years and I did 13 years in federal prison for bank fraud and a slew of other charges related to bank fraud.

00:15:44.000 So, can you kind of take us through, before we get into the criminal investigation and everything else that went into that, can you kind of take us through your background, where you're from, what it was like growing up?

00:15:53.000 Yeah, so I grew up, actually grew up upper middle class.

00:15:58.000 Like, you know, other people have a good reason why.

00:16:02.000 You grew up in the projects and you end up selling drugs.

00:16:04.000 It's like, okay, well, you were surrounded by it, you know what I'm saying?

00:16:07.000 So, I can kind of see how it's tough to escape that.

00:16:10.000 But I was raised upper middle class, I had a severe learning disability.

00:16:15.000 Went to school for kids with learning disabilities.

00:16:18.000 My father was an alcoholic.

00:16:22.000 I basically wasn't the son that he thought he deserved.

00:16:29.000 Wasn't super tall.

00:16:30.000 Wasn't super athletic.

00:16:31.000 He deserved better.

00:16:33.000 Dyslexia, right?

00:16:34.000 Yeah, dyslexia.

00:16:35.000 You know, visual and audio, auditory dyslexia.

00:16:39.000 So, anyway, I end up graduating high school.

00:16:41.000 I go to college.

00:16:42.000 I end up getting a degree in fine arts.

00:16:46.000 And after getting a degree in fine arts, I worked, got laid off from a few jobs.

00:16:52.000 Where'd you get it from?

00:16:54.000 What?

00:16:54.000 The degree in fine arts.

00:16:56.000 USF. USF? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:16:57.000 Did you know what you wanted to do while you were in school?

00:16:59.000 Or you didn't know yet?

00:17:00.000 Well, I mean, when I was in high school, I thought I wanted to work for State Farm.

00:17:05.000 That's who my dad worked for, State Farm Insurance.

00:17:07.000 He was super successful, made a bunch of money.

00:17:11.000 He was a great manager.

00:17:13.000 When he was sober, everybody loved him. 0.98

00:17:17.000 And he would go on these, whatever, two-week drunken binges and become just a complete jerk-off.

00:17:24.000 And it's funny, too, because he did so well for State Farm, they would sober him up, put him into a rehab for... 0.87

00:17:31.000 Oh, wow.

00:17:32.000 60 days, 90 days.

00:17:34.000 And then he'd come out and then he'd be okay and he'd be good.

00:17:37.000 We got him.

00:17:37.000 He's good for a couple of years.

00:17:38.000 You know, maybe it'd be six months, maybe it'd be two years.

00:17:41.000 And so anyway, eventually, it's just it's funny because I always think somebody always asked me whenever I think about my childhood.

00:17:50.000 I always think the one thing that he definitely taught me was that if you make enough money, you can pretty much do whatever you want.

00:17:58.000 You can treat people the way you want.

00:18:00.000 They will enable you, that sort of thing.

00:18:03.000 And I think that I got that as a kid.

00:18:06.000 So in high school, I thought I wanted to be a manager, like a state farm manager, state farm agent.

00:18:12.000 Ended up going to college, tried to get a degree in business.

00:18:17.000 That's no joke, bro.

00:18:18.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:19.000 So I realized right away by accounting two, which was the only C I ever got in college, I was like, oh, I'm not going to be able to do this.

00:18:27.000 I'll never get through micro and macroeconomics.

00:18:29.000 There's no way I'm doing this.

00:18:31.000 So I switched it to the easiest possible...

00:18:34.000 Fine arts.

00:18:34.000 It's like, what is the easiest thing I can get a degree in?

00:18:38.000 I thought, fine arts.

00:18:39.000 I'm super creative.

00:18:40.000 I can paint.

00:18:41.000 I can draw.

00:18:42.000 This is going to be easy.

00:18:44.000 And I was.

00:18:44.000 I did really well.

00:18:47.000 I got basically all A's, maybe a B or two.

00:18:50.000 And, yeah, graduated.

00:18:52.000 What year did you graduate?

00:18:53.000 95. 1.00

00:18:54.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

00:18:55.000 Holy crap. 1.00

00:18:55.000 What gender does mostly arts in school? 1.00

00:18:58.000 There was a bunch of chicks in there probably too, right? 1.00

00:18:59.000 I already know.

00:19:00.000 There was probably a bunch of girls in there as well. 1.00

00:19:01.000 So you know what's funny about that?

00:19:03.000 I had a girlfriend that I dated probably for three years of college.

00:19:10.000 And this is funny.

00:19:11.000 She was a stripper who was working her way through college. 1.00

00:19:18.000 Really though.

00:19:18.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:19:19.000 For once, right?

00:19:20.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:19:20.000 She really was.

00:19:21.000 She was in school.

00:19:22.000 And she got a degree in business.

00:19:23.000 So...

00:19:26.000 Anyway, so, and as far as the, you know, it's liberal.

00:19:30.000 It's the liberal arts, right? 0.96

00:19:32.000 They're all like, you know, the women are mostly lesbians or they just hate you in general. 0.99

00:19:36.000 And I used to wear, I don't know if you know who, you know who Rush Limbaugh is? 0.96

00:19:40.000 Rush Limbaugh.

00:19:41.000 Sounds familiar.

00:19:41.000 So he's like one of the first conservative talk show hosts ever.

00:19:46.000 This is before YouTube.

00:19:49.000 So I used to wear a t-shirt that said Rush Limbaugh for president.

00:19:52.000 They hated my guts.

00:19:53.000 I drove a BMW. I mean, look at me.

00:19:56.000 I mean, now I'm 55, but back then I was young, blonde hair, blue eyed, worked out all the time.

00:20:01.000 They hate my guts.

00:20:02.000 I'm everything they despise. 1.00

00:20:03.000 Yeah, you're the wasp that they hate. 0.98

00:20:04.000 You're the man. 1.00

00:20:05.000 You're the oppressor. 0.83

00:20:06.000 You're the patriarchy in their eyes. 0.98

00:20:07.000 How dare you?

00:20:08.000 But I still graduated.

00:20:10.000 But, you know, wasn't, like I said...

00:20:12.000 How dare you! 0.99

00:20:13.000 Because of the dyslexia, I wasn't very good at...

00:20:16.000 Wasn't great at business.

00:20:18.000 Got laid off a few times.

00:20:20.000 No, no, we're good.

00:20:21.000 We're good.

00:20:21.000 Don't worry.

00:20:22.000 The audio thing here in our headphones...

00:20:25.000 Mo, can we fix that, please?

00:20:26.000 Go ahead.

00:20:26.000 I got laid off a few times.

00:20:29.000 Started working construction.

00:20:30.000 You know, behind on my bills.

00:20:32.000 And the chick I was dating was like, listen, you know, she had met some guy who owned a...

00:20:36.000 He owned a lender, right?

00:20:38.000 And they had a bunch of offices.

00:20:40.000 And she said, you know, this guy, they're mortgage brokers.

00:20:43.000 He owns a mortgage brokerage business.

00:20:45.000 You should go to work there.

00:20:46.000 Like, you'd be great.

00:20:48.000 Right.

00:20:48.000 So I went and I applied and I got the job.

00:20:52.000 What year is this now?

00:20:53.000 96, 97?

00:20:54.000 No, this is probably 99.

00:20:56.000 By the time I started, it was like 99.

00:20:58.000 You know, I worked for those other companies.

00:21:00.000 You work for them for a year, you get laid off.

00:21:02.000 Work for another one a year.

00:21:03.000 Tried construction for a couple years.

00:21:05.000 Barely paying my bills. 0.99

00:21:06.000 Construction sucks. 0.98

00:21:07.000 I'm not built for construction. 0.98

00:21:10.000 And yeah, so I start working as a mortgage broker.

00:21:15.000 And I, you know, did very well, like right away, because basically my very first loan I started committing fraud.

00:21:22.000 By the time I got there, keep in mind, by the time I got there, I hadn't worked in weeks.

00:21:27.000 By the time my first loan is about to close, I haven't been paid anything in a month, a month and a half.

00:21:35.000 Was it all commission-based?

00:21:36.000 It was all commission-based.

00:21:38.000 It wasn't hourly.

00:21:39.000 I'm behind on my car, a couple months.

00:21:42.000 My mortgage is probably three weeks, maybe a month overdue.

00:21:46.000 Credit cards, I'm banking.

00:21:48.000 I put everything into this.

00:21:50.000 This has to work.

00:21:51.000 It's that, or you move back in with my parents.

00:21:56.000 The very first loan I had, Perfect loan.

00:22:02.000 It's ready to close.

00:22:03.000 And I go into my manager's office and she opens up the file and pulls one document, puts it aside, and says...

00:22:09.000 So she closes.

00:22:10.000 She goes, look, everything's perfect, ready to close.

00:22:13.000 But on your verification of rent for your borrower, she was 30 days late on her rent in the last two years.

00:22:21.000 So maybe six months ago, maybe two years ago.

00:22:23.000 And I was like...

00:22:25.000 What do I do?

00:22:25.000 Like, that's a deal killer.

00:22:26.000 It's over.

00:22:27.000 And she pulled out a whiteout thing and went, and she goes, if I was you, I'd white it out, make a copy, stick it in the file, send it to underwriting, it'll be fine. 0.96

00:22:35.000 And I'm like, holy shit. 0.98

00:22:38.000 And I was like, that's fraud. 0.99

00:22:39.000 I could go to jail.

00:22:40.000 She goes, nobody's going to jail.

00:22:41.000 She goes, worst that happens is they fire you.

00:22:43.000 She goes, they're never going to find that.

00:22:44.000 They're not going to call.

00:22:45.000 They're not going to know that.

00:22:46.000 She goes, it'll be fine.

00:22:47.000 And I was like...

00:22:48.000 So, you know, I'm desperate.

00:22:49.000 And she was like, you don't have to do it.

00:22:50.000 Nobody's looking for my car.

00:22:51.000 She's doing whatever you want to do. 1.00

00:22:52.000 And I'm like, fuck. 1.00

00:22:54.000 So I white it out. 1.00

00:22:55.000 It goes to underwriting.

00:22:57.000 I sweat bullets for three, four days.

00:22:59.000 And then they say, hey, you can close in a couple days.

00:23:02.000 We close, whatever, four or five days later.

00:23:04.000 I get a check for $3,500.

00:23:07.000 You know, it was the right decision.

00:23:09.000 Wow.

00:23:09.000 You know what I mean?

00:23:10.000 So, okay.

00:23:11.000 Yeah.

00:23:11.000 So, this is what, 1999, this happened, right?

00:23:13.000 Yeah.

00:23:14.000 99.

00:23:15.000 And $3,500 back then is a lot different than now.

00:23:17.000 That's probably, I would say, maybe $7,000 purchasing power now, right?

00:23:20.000 Yeah, but I mean, not just, you know, yeah.

00:23:22.000 My mortgage payment's like $500.

00:23:26.000 My car payment is probably $300.

00:23:29.000 But it wasn't just that.

00:23:31.000 It was that the next guy that comes in, he's got a W-2.

00:23:34.000 He doesn't make enough debt-to-income ratio.

00:23:36.000 He doesn't qualify.

00:23:37.000 He doesn't make quite enough money.

00:23:38.000 He makes $50,000, but if he made $57,000, he can get the loan.

00:23:42.000 Real quick for the audience, can you explain as a mortgage broker what your duty is?

00:23:46.000 Just so they kind of understand, because some people, unless they're in real estate, they're not going to know what your job is.

00:23:50.000 Specifically, we're talking about getting people loans and everything else for a house.

00:23:53.000 Can you describe real quick your duty and then how you were able to finesse it?

00:23:57.000 At that company, all of the loans went through their own lender.

00:24:03.000 They were a lender.

00:24:04.000 Okay.

00:24:05.000 But it's pretty much the same anywhere you go as a mortgage broker.

00:24:10.000 So what we did was I would go out and I would find people that were interested in buying a home.

00:24:15.000 And so you want to get a house and maybe you don't quite qualify for Bank of America.

00:24:20.000 You can't go to the bank.

00:24:21.000 Yeah.

00:24:21.000 So you come to me.

00:24:22.000 My credit's fucked up. 0.96

00:24:22.000 Maybe I'm behind on a payment. 0.96

00:24:25.000 Maybe I got something in collections.

00:24:26.000 Yeah.

00:24:26.000 Right, right.

00:24:26.000 You don't quite have a high enough credit score.

00:24:29.000 Maybe you've been late in the past.

00:24:30.000 Whatever.

00:24:30.000 So I put together a package, and I send it through a subprime loan.

00:24:35.000 It was a subprime loan.

00:24:36.000 And maybe I get you 85% or 95%.

00:24:38.000 You put down 5%.

00:24:40.000 And, of course, I have to collect all the documents.

00:24:43.000 make sure that your package is correct, right?

00:24:44.000 Like you have to have verification of your rent for residency or mortgage, verification of your employment, and you have to make enough money to qualify for the loan, right?

00:24:54.000 So you have to have a percentage of your income has to be allocated to cover that mortgage payment.

00:25:00.000 Then also you have to have, of course, the appraisal.

00:25:03.000 The property has to be worth it, right?

00:25:05.000 You can't buy a property for $400,000 if the appraisal comes in and says it's only worth $300,000.

00:25:11.000 And then, of course, the title has to be clean, but that basically is the property.

00:25:18.000 And then the other thing is you have to have a down payment.

00:25:20.000 This is if you're purchasing.

00:25:21.000 If you're refinancing, it's different.

00:25:23.000 It's based off the equity.

00:25:24.000 Thank you.

00:25:25.000 Thank you so much.

00:25:28.000 W. Angie in the chat.

00:25:29.000 Yeah, Angie, bringing us some coffee.

00:25:31.000 Speaking of which, where's mine?

00:25:33.000 I'm just kidding.

00:25:34.000 It's on the way.

00:25:35.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:25:36.000 Angie's hooking us up.

00:25:37.000 Sorry.

00:25:38.000 So, yeah.

00:25:38.000 So, sorry.

00:25:39.000 So, we're saying...

00:25:40.000 So, these things need to be in touch, obviously.

00:25:42.000 Right.

00:25:43.000 You put together a package.

00:25:44.000 You send it to underwriting.

00:25:45.000 Yep.

00:25:45.000 Now, if you're a mortgage brokerage business and you are signed up with multiple lenders...

00:25:51.000 I might take that package and I might send it to SunTrust Bank.

00:25:56.000 I might send it to Mortgage Warehouse.

00:25:59.000 I might send it to Household Bank and see who gives me the best rate.

00:26:04.000 Or some of them are just going to say, hey, you can't – this doesn't fit into one of our programs.

00:26:09.000 Yeah.

00:26:09.000 Sorry, no, we're not interested.

00:26:11.000 And, you know, you try and get the most yield spread back, right?

00:26:14.000 So if your interest rate's 6% and I tell you, this is going to sound sleazy.

00:26:20.000 So if I say, you know, the interest rate household bank quotes me, says, we can give them a loan at 6%.

00:26:26.000 I go, oh, okay.

00:26:27.000 And I go to you and I say, listen, I can get you 7.5.

00:26:30.000 And you go, oh, okay, cool.

00:26:31.000 7.5, I'll take it.

00:26:32.000 I know you'll take it because I know you've been turned down by three other places.

00:26:35.000 You don't have a choice.

00:26:36.000 Well, what that does is every, let's say, and this is An exaggeration is typically like 25 or 30, but for the sake of this, every 50 or half a point, I get a point back on the loan.

00:26:48.000 So if you borrow $200,000 and I just jacked up your rate by one and a half, which is multiple, 350% basis points, That's three points back.

00:27:00.000 So I'd get back $6,000.

00:27:02.000 And I'm charging you a broker fee of three or four grand.

00:27:05.000 So I might end up making $9,000, $10,000.

00:27:08.000 And so the first month, I closed four loans.

00:27:12.000 Because, like I said, the guy comes in, he's got a W-2, he doesn't make enough money.

00:27:17.000 I know he's got to make more money.

00:27:18.000 So I changed the W-2.

00:27:20.000 He doesn't make $50,000, now he makes $57,000.

00:27:23.000 Guess what?

00:27:23.000 We send it to underwriting.

00:27:25.000 Made the requirement.

00:27:27.000 Right.

00:27:27.000 And I start to figure out what underwriting asks.

00:27:29.000 All they're really asking is, does he work here?

00:27:32.000 Has he worked here for two years?

00:27:33.000 Did you fill out this verification of employment?

00:27:36.000 Yes.

00:27:36.000 Okay, thank you.

00:27:37.000 They're not saying, how much was his last year's W-2?

00:27:42.000 They're not asking all that.

00:27:43.000 I've provided those documents.

00:27:44.000 Why would they question the documents?

00:27:46.000 You know, and I think it's really important because we've done episodes on real estate here, and it's fantastic to kind of get it from your perspective of, like, you know, what a mortgage broker is.

00:27:53.000 And, like, you know, for the chat out there, guys, like, you want to buy a house or whatever and your credit isn't that good, you go to a mortgage broker and what he'll do is he'll shop your package around to other places to help you get a loan because not everyone has good credit, etc.

00:28:03.000 Or let's say you maxed out your ability to get certain, you know, Fannie Mae loans or whatever, then they'll be able to help you out.

00:28:07.000 So you were able to...

00:28:08.000 So you were in a very...

00:28:10.000 I guess, good position where you could get the person to loan, and these are people that don't necessarily have the best credit or the best financial background, and you're able to kind of increase interest rates, make them say that they make more money than they really do, etc.

00:28:24.000 Yeah, they're not going anywhere else.

00:28:25.000 Yeah, and also, that applies to cars too as well.

00:28:28.000 Cars, buy and pay here.

00:28:29.000 Oh yeah, were you doing car loans?

00:28:31.000 Or were you just doing strictly home?

00:28:32.000 No, we're just doing mortgages.

00:28:33.000 You were just doing mortgages, right?

00:28:34.000 Okay.

00:28:34.000 But yeah, it's rampant.

00:28:36.000 Dude.

00:28:37.000 I had no idea how bad it was until, like, a friend of mine pulled up a contract that he had.

00:28:42.000 And you're right, the points matter.

00:28:43.000 So, if they get a higher point percentage, because they know you can't get any better rates, like, you know, we'll give you 9%.

00:28:49.000 Alright, bro, can't get any annuals, I'll take it.

00:28:52.000 And then, they get money back?

00:28:54.000 Yeah.

00:28:54.000 W, for them.

00:28:55.000 But for the person buying it, it sucks.

00:28:57.000 Yeah, and that's why a lot of times they want to do the financing themselves, you know? 0.71

00:29:01.000 It helps finance them.

00:29:01.000 Right, it helps them make additional money, right?

00:29:04.000 You buy your car for $50,000, you might make an extra $1,500, $2,500, because you can really jack up the rate.

00:29:11.000 So anyway, what ends up happening is I worked at that company for maybe six months.

00:29:16.000 So you close that first loan, you get that first taste.

00:29:18.000 $3,500?

00:29:19.000 Yeah, it's four loans the first month, then it's four, then it's six, then it's eight, then it's ten, then it's twelve.

00:29:25.000 How much did you make that first month?

00:29:26.000 I probably made...

00:29:26.000 I made not that much because they took 30%.

00:29:29.000 So I probably made...

00:29:32.000 9 or 10, right?

00:29:33.000 Because it's not always $3,500 and you don't always get to bump the rate, right?

00:29:36.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:29:37.000 So it's not at that company.

00:29:39.000 But when I went and I started my own company, because keep in mind, you might get one point from them and they are getting two because they're the lender.

00:29:47.000 And can you explain to the audience real quick what points are?

00:29:49.000 Yeah, points are like if it's 1% of the loan amount.

00:29:54.000 Okay.

00:29:54.000 So if I jack up your interest rate by 50 basis points, like half of the rate or half the...

00:30:04.000 I get one point back.

00:30:06.000 Yeah.

00:30:06.000 Right?

00:30:06.000 So, but keep in mind, they're the ones who are really getting most of that at the lender.

00:30:10.000 But when I went and opened up my own company, now I'm getting all three points or two points or five points.

00:30:16.000 Some of these places are doing five points.

00:30:17.000 So now we're getting that.

00:30:20.000 And then I went out immediately.

00:30:21.000 I hired a bunch of mortgage brokers.

00:30:23.000 When did you leave and start your own?

00:30:26.000 So you did your first month four loans, you made like 10K, which is like 20, 30K nowadays, right?

00:30:30.000 That's a lot of money back in 99.

00:30:32.000 So you did that for a bit, and then how long until you left?

00:30:35.000 Six to eight months.

00:30:35.000 Okay, so you're only there.

00:30:37.000 How many companies nowadays Might have been a year, but go ahead.

00:30:41.000 Do that right now, you'd say?

00:30:42.000 A lot of them?

00:30:43.000 So the, I want to say, is it the Dodd-Frank Act was passed, and they've limited the amount of points you can get back and how much the rates are.

00:30:56.000 They've changed a lot of little, they've tweaked a lot of little things, so you don't have quite as much of an incentive.

00:31:03.000 And they also track anybody who originates alone.

00:31:06.000 Where I'm originating a loan and everything's closing in the lender's name, like they don't even know who I am.

00:31:11.000 But now you have your numbers attached.

00:31:13.000 So if they say, hey, this guy's done 100 loans this year and 40 of them went under, like it's fraud and he's all over, like they'd immediately jump on you and investigate you.

00:31:23.000 But back then they have no idea who's closing these loans.

00:31:25.000 I think it's important for the audience to know this is before 2008, guys.

00:31:28.000 Yes.

00:31:28.000 This is when you can get a loan for literally anything.

00:31:30.000 This is before the housing crash.

00:31:31.000 So this was like a fantastic time to go ahead and be in this business.

00:31:35.000 So you do that for about a year.

00:31:37.000 You're working with this company.

00:31:38.000 You're making 8, 10K a month.

00:31:40.000 And then you're like, no, I can do this myself.

00:31:41.000 I can make more money.

00:31:43.000 Yeah, they actually had an issue with their credit line.

00:31:45.000 So it was a combination of the two.

00:31:47.000 Like, one, they're having problems.

00:31:48.000 And I was like, you know what?

00:31:49.000 I'm done.

00:31:49.000 Like, I've got a bunch of people that want loans.

00:31:51.000 I'm gonna go start my own company.

00:31:52.000 So I started my own company.

00:31:54.000 Because I really didn't want to own my own company.

00:31:56.000 Like, I wasn't thinking.

00:31:57.000 I was making great money.

00:31:59.000 I'm thrilled.

00:32:00.000 The girl, the chick I was dating, we're not dating anymore.

00:32:03.000 She actually started dating the owner of the company.

00:32:05.000 He divorced his wife.

00:32:07.000 He had three kids.

00:32:08.000 Three boys and a wife.

00:32:10.000 He divorced her and ended up marrying...

00:32:13.000 Your chick.

00:32:14.000 My chick.

00:32:15.000 Her name was Chrissy.

00:32:16.000 And then they ended up having a baby.

00:32:19.000 And so, from her perspective, it's romantic.

00:32:22.000 She puts you on. 1.00

00:32:23.000 Yeah, from my perspective, you know, she's a whore. 1.00

00:32:25.000 But the point is, regardless, it's good for her. 0.99

00:32:29.000 It's a romance.

00:32:30.000 How dare you! 0.99

00:32:31.000 I'm excited for it.

00:32:32.000 And they're still together to this day, so to be honest, she made the right call.

00:32:35.000 Oh yeah, to this day, she made the right call.

00:32:37.000 And he's a nice guy.

00:32:38.000 He's a good guy.

00:32:38.000 I'm sure his ex-wife doesn't think so, but that's either way.

00:32:41.000 I'm sure Chrissy, they're very happy.

00:32:43.000 So the point is that I start my own place.

00:32:47.000 I hire a bunch of guys.

00:32:48.000 I hire like 10 or 12 guys, and pretty much anybody can be a mortgage broker.

00:32:52.000 I got guys who are – I got a guy who's literally worked for PestX for two years, and he quit there and came to work.

00:32:59.000 I got another guy that – Because you had all the contacts with the lenders, right?

00:33:02.000 And keep in mind, you don't have to be all that good.

00:33:04.000 You just get people that want to buy houses.

00:33:05.000 If they have a pulse, I'm going to make sure they get a loan.

00:33:08.000 Boom.

00:33:08.000 I'm going to make their W2. At this point, it's graduated from, I'm going to change a 7, or I'm going to do this, and I'm going to be scared the whole time, to just, I don't give a fuck.

00:33:19.000 You come in, does he have a job? 0.99

00:33:22.000 No, he doesn't have a job.

00:33:23.000 He works for himself.

00:33:24.000 He washes cars.

00:33:24.000 That's fine.

00:33:25.000 Here's what I'm going to do.

00:33:25.000 I'm going to make W2. I'm going to make...

00:33:27.000 1040s.

00:33:28.000 I'm going to go get this chick. 1.00

00:33:30.000 I had a chick that would make 1040s for it. 1.00

00:33:33.000 He still washes cars, but I'm going to get a year-to-date profit loss.

00:33:40.000 I'm going to get two years taxes done.

00:33:42.000 She charged me like $25, and then we'd go in, and you'd go to a company that didn't file, let's say it's called a 4506.

00:33:53.000 So you find a company that's not going to file a 4506, so they're not going to pull the taxes from the IRS.

00:33:59.000 They're just going to accept what he has.

00:34:00.000 If he has over a certain score, there's lots of programs.

00:34:03.000 So you're like, hey, we can do this with this guy.

00:34:05.000 Don't worry.

00:34:05.000 I'll call so-and-so.

00:34:06.000 He needs to make about $85,000.

00:34:08.000 Do the write-offs, everything, or this person doesn't make enough money, or this person has a W-2 job, but they don't claim taxes.

00:34:17.000 That's okay.

00:34:17.000 I'm going to have him work for my company.

00:34:19.000 And I would have had four or five companies and cell phones.

00:34:22.000 Like, I had a credenza.

00:34:23.000 It's got all these cell phones on it.

00:34:25.000 So if somebody called to verify your employment, I'd just answer the phone, you know, hey, Express Tax Service.

00:34:30.000 Oh, wow.

00:34:32.000 And they'd be, you know, hey, I'm calling, you know, about, you know, Byron.

00:34:37.000 Does he work there?

00:34:38.000 Actually...

00:34:40.000 He does work here, and he's not here right now, and they're like, oh, no, no, no, no.

00:34:43.000 We're just calling to verify he works there.

00:34:45.000 Has he been there five years?

00:34:47.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:34:48.000 I filled out a verification of employment for you, right?

00:34:50.000 He's getting the house, right?

00:34:51.000 And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:34:52.000 No, he's good.

00:34:53.000 He's good.

00:34:54.000 Oh, okay.

00:34:54.000 Do you need anything else?

00:34:55.000 You need me to fax it?

00:34:56.000 No, no, that's fine.

00:34:57.000 They, oh, okay, thanks.

00:34:57.000 Click.

00:34:58.000 We're done.

00:34:59.000 We're done.

00:35:00.000 So, you know, you got W2s, pay stubs, and I just verified your employment.

00:35:04.000 And then, of course, they got other checks, right?

00:35:06.000 Like they would check to say, hey, the tax ID number on this W2, is it a real company?

00:35:11.000 Of course it's a real company.

00:35:12.000 I have a real company.

00:35:13.000 You know, has it been in business for five years?

00:35:15.000 Of course it has.

00:35:15.000 I just paid up.

00:35:17.000 A company that had been inactive.

00:35:20.000 And after three years, in Florida, you can catch up the dues, like the fees, the yearly fees.

00:35:26.000 You catch up the yearly fees, and now the company's active again.

00:35:30.000 I can put anybody's name.

00:35:31.000 It looks like it's been active for the last five years.

00:35:34.000 Age corporations? 0.81

00:35:35.000 Yeah, they call them shelf corporations, right?

00:35:38.000 There you go.

00:35:38.000 So I would have those, so you can call.

00:35:40.000 I got to a point where I would, not only would I do that, but I would make a website for it.

00:35:45.000 Wow.

00:35:45.000 And there used to be something called the business directory, right?

00:35:49.000 I could add the phone numbers to the business directory.

00:35:52.000 Like, it doesn't matter if I spend $500 or $1,000 or $1,500 on this fake corporation for you because I'm going to use it for you and him and Jimmy and Todd.

00:36:02.000 Like, I'll be using this thing.

00:36:04.000 If I have five of them, and it was the same thing with banks, I got to a point where it's like a lot of times the lenders would say, look, this person doesn't have a great credit.

00:36:13.000 So they've been on their job, but they don't have great credit.

00:36:17.000 And the issue with them is that we're afraid they're not going to be able to make the payment if something goes wrong.

00:36:22.000 They barely have enough money to pay the down payment.

00:36:26.000 And they would say, we really want them to have reserves, like six months worth of reserves, which means if they lost their job, they could still make all the payments.

00:36:33.000 And then they're like, so I'm sorry, we're going to turn it down.

00:36:36.000 They would say, we're sorry, I'm going to turn it down.

00:36:37.000 I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.

00:36:39.000 What do you mean?

00:36:39.000 He's got like 30 grand in the bank.

00:36:41.000 What are you talking about?

00:36:42.000 And they go, Matt, he's got like $8,000.

00:36:46.000 I go, what account do you have?

00:36:48.000 And they go, oh, Bank of America.

00:36:49.000 And I go, oh, no, no, no, no, no.

00:36:51.000 Oh, I didn't send you Ybor, Bank of Ybor.

00:36:54.000 And they go, yeah.

00:36:55.000 I go, yeah, yeah, no, Bank of Ebor.

00:36:56.000 I can get you three months bank statements right now.

00:37:01.000 And I'll send him over.

00:37:02.000 He's got over 30 grand.

00:37:03.000 We didn't send you that.

00:37:04.000 The processor didn't send you it.

00:37:06.000 Tracy! 0.99

00:37:07.000 You know.

00:37:08.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:37:09.000 Morgan!

00:37:10.000 Yeah, they'd be like.

00:37:10.000 Write it up.

00:37:11.000 Right.

00:37:11.000 And I'll fax him over right now.

00:37:13.000 And, of course, there is no Bank of Ebor.

00:37:15.000 It's actually just a website that I made.

00:37:16.000 But you could call.

00:37:17.000 It had a phone number.

00:37:18.000 Somebody would answer.

00:37:19.000 Yeah.

00:37:20.000 And I even had bank statements.

00:37:22.000 So I had bank statements for that one.

00:37:24.000 I had another one called Express Tax Services.

00:37:28.000 No, not Express.

00:37:29.000 What am I saying?

00:37:29.000 It was a...

00:37:31.000 Southern Exchange Bank.

00:37:32.000 That's what it was called.

00:37:33.000 Southern Exchange Bank.

00:37:34.000 And that was a real bank that had closed.

00:37:35.000 So I did Southern Exchange Bank of Clarksville.com because I couldn't get the website because it had actually been bought out by like SunTrust or somebody anyway.

00:37:47.000 So I used that, right?

00:37:49.000 And I had a website.

00:37:50.000 I built a website for that.

00:37:51.000 And so I had multiple banks.

00:37:53.000 So I can verify your down payment.

00:37:54.000 I can verify your reserves.

00:37:56.000 I can verify employment.

00:37:58.000 I can verify anything I want.

00:38:01.000 And so that was working out great.

00:38:02.000 Like, I was making a bunch of money.

00:38:04.000 This is crazy.

00:38:04.000 It went from, like, you just winding out a thing, right, to, you know, he makes, what was the first one again?

00:38:10.000 And when you winded it out, it was to, so how much money they made?

00:38:12.000 Oh, no, no, they weren't late on rent.

00:38:15.000 Yeah.

00:38:15.000 It went from that to creating all these different infrastructures to substantiate someone who's unqualified to make them qualified.

00:38:23.000 You make this much money.

00:38:24.000 You even went to the extent to have them have bank accounts.

00:38:27.000 So if you're breathing, you can get a loan.

00:38:29.000 Yeah, that's what I used to say.

00:38:31.000 Guys would come in, they'd be like, bro, if somebody's got a pulse...

00:38:34.000 You know, we can get them on.

00:38:35.000 I'd be like, absolutely.

00:38:36.000 They had all these things just set up in the background to make sure that they...

00:38:40.000 What was your clothes rate at this point?

00:38:41.000 90s?

00:38:41.000 Oh, yeah.

00:38:42.000 I mean, everybody that walks in, they want to buy a house.

00:38:46.000 I mean, they still had to have...

00:38:47.000 Not always, but if it was somebody off the street, like, you've got to have your down payment.

00:38:51.000 You know?

00:38:51.000 Like, we're not just...

00:38:52.000 You know, we're pulling homeless people off the street and giving them... 1.00

00:38:55.000 You know, they have to be...

00:38:56.000 Like, if somebody came in and they...

00:38:58.000 You know, they've been evicted four times.

00:39:00.000 They don't have a down payment.

00:39:02.000 They...

00:39:03.000 They're on Social Security disability.

00:39:05.000 It's like, you can't pay a mortgage.

00:39:06.000 I can't.

00:39:07.000 I'm sorry.

00:39:07.000 But if it was someone who was reasonably having some issues and we thought they'll probably be okay, which is, by the way, not the underwriting standard, but for us it's like, Yeah, they'll probably make a few payments.

00:39:19.000 We'll be good.

00:39:20.000 Yeah.

00:39:20.000 So, yeah.

00:39:21.000 In the car industry, they get very creative.

00:39:23.000 They actually give you, like, months to pay the deposit.

00:39:26.000 So they'll give you, like, three, four, five months to pay the full down payment, and then you still get the car up front. 1.00

00:39:32.000 What the fuck? 0.99

00:39:32.000 They get very creative. 0.99

00:39:33.000 That's great.

00:39:33.000 Yeah, that's that.

00:39:34.000 Because now I got the car.

00:39:35.000 What if I don't make the payments?

00:39:37.000 Well, see, the thing is, with a car, you can take it back very quickly.

00:39:40.000 Take it back, yeah.

00:39:41.000 With a house, if I put up any fight at all, it could be six months, a year.

00:39:45.000 Most of these people don't though.

00:39:47.000 If you have somebody in a lower income area back then, they didn't pay and they start the legal process and these people aren't capable of fighting a foreclosure.

00:39:58.000 So they just lose the house in 90 days, 120 days.

00:40:00.000 So Matt, who taught you all these tips and tricks?

00:40:02.000 Because I feel like to know this stuff, you've got to know the weeds of the whole industry.

00:40:06.000 Well, I mean, you keep getting caught.

00:40:08.000 I would get caught.

00:40:10.000 And the nice thing about being in my position is that if somebody got caught at that time, you got caught.

00:40:16.000 Eddie Lafuente did what?

00:40:18.000 So if I get the phone call, I go, let me get him in here.

00:40:21.000 Eddie, what did you do, bro?

00:40:23.000 I got this underwriter calling.

00:40:24.000 I got the head of this bank calling. 1.00

00:40:26.000 And he's sitting there like, motherfucker, you know what? 1.00

00:40:28.000 Shut up. 1.00

00:40:29.000 And then you say, well, how did you catch this? 0.99

00:40:34.000 Well, one of our ways are the ways that we, you know, catch, you know, or we look into whatever it is, you know, bank statements or this or that, and then they tell you and you're like...

00:40:43.000 Thank you, brother.

00:40:44.000 Next time we got it, it's got to be a real tax ID number.

00:40:47.000 Okay.

00:40:47.000 You know, next time it has to be this.

00:40:49.000 Next time...

00:40:50.000 So you just make that alteration.

00:40:51.000 It gets to that point where you're like...

00:40:53.000 You're 100% positive.

00:40:55.000 The underwriter would make these complaints.

00:40:57.000 And then you would say, what was it specifically?

00:40:59.000 You'd bring that person in, fake yell at them.

00:41:00.000 Oh, that's genius.

00:41:01.000 Yeah, you yell at them a little bit.

00:41:02.000 And then you just say, don't send anything to the mortgage warehouse again.

00:41:06.000 Like, wait six months before you send anything because they think you're fired.

00:41:10.000 They're like, cool, bro.

00:41:11.000 No problem.

00:41:12.000 Listen, man.

00:41:13.000 This is funny because I got family from Nigeria, so seeing these scams is hilarious. 1.00

00:41:17.000 Yeah, so this is interesting because it's like, you know, obviously, you know, there's this old saying, you know, you can't lie once, right?

00:41:23.000 You have to lie multiple times.

00:41:24.000 So like, you would, you know, obviously get them the loan, but then you find out, okay, you don't qualify for this or no, I got to get this now.

00:41:30.000 So like, you pretty much had it where you had bank statements, you had jobs, you were verifying their employment, you were doing all this stuff.

00:41:36.000 So you do this for the, how many years did you do this for before you got caught the first time?

00:41:41.000 I probably did that for...

00:41:44.000 99, we started the company?

00:41:46.000 Yeah, probably a couple years, and then what happened was, the way I got caught was, so I usually don't even mention this part, just because it's irrelevant, but remember the chick that had me white out the thing?

00:42:02.000 Yes.

00:42:03.000 Okay, so that company had gone under.

00:42:05.000 Okay.

00:42:06.000 And she came to work for me. 1.00

00:42:07.000 Oh, shit! 1.00

00:42:08.000 Right, so now, and listen, what a bitch. 1.00

00:42:11.000 Like, I mean, just a horrible person. 1.00

00:42:13.000 Was she impressed by how you just came up off her little whiteout chick? 1.00

00:42:16.000 She's like, you owe me, buddy!

00:42:17.000 Matt, you owe me!

00:42:19.000 I mean, listen, she was an amazing closer.

00:42:23.000 I mean, like, she was cranking them out.

00:42:26.000 And so she came to work for me for a couple months, and then she and her husband went and opened their own place.

00:42:31.000 Ooh.

00:42:32.000 And so it was called Creative Mortgage Brokers.

00:42:35.000 Fantastic name.

00:42:36.000 Yeah.

00:42:36.000 Perfect, right?

00:42:37.000 No red flags there.

00:42:38.000 So she opened her own place.

00:42:40.000 And here's the thing.

00:42:41.000 I had gotten married.

00:42:43.000 And so I got married.

00:42:44.000 What year is this now?

00:42:45.000 2000?

00:42:46.000 Yeah, I'd say 2000.

00:42:47.000 Probably just 2000, 2001, let's say.

00:42:49.000 Because there's so many things happening at the same time, right?

00:42:52.000 Pre-9-11?

00:42:53.000 Yeah.

00:42:55.000 Pre-9-11?

00:42:55.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:42:56.000 No, no, no, definitely.

00:42:57.000 Okay, okay, okay.

00:42:58.000 Yeah.

00:42:59.000 So, I date this chick. 1.00

00:43:02.000 She gets pregnant immediately. 0.99

00:43:04.000 We get married.

00:43:06.000 And she's like, well, I want to stay home with the baby.

00:43:08.000 And I'm like, yeah, it's not going to happen.

00:43:09.000 I'm like, you're going to have to, you know, I'm going to buy a bunch of rental properties.

00:43:13.000 You can collect rent.

00:43:14.000 Then you can raise the baby.

00:43:14.000 That's fine.

00:43:15.000 But you're not sitting home, you know?

00:43:17.000 So, we're going to...

00:43:20.000 Buy a bunch of rental properties.

00:43:21.000 So within a year, I've got about a million and a half, maybe $2 million worth of real estate that she owns.

00:43:27.000 I mean, we both own it.

00:43:28.000 And she's collecting rent. 1.00

00:43:30.000 She's renting them out, collecting rent. 1.00

00:43:32.000 She's basically a property manager. 1.00

00:43:33.000 She is, absolutely.

00:43:34.000 Opened a property management company, everything.

00:43:37.000 Obviously, she's not a real estate broker because she owns them. 1.00

00:43:41.000 If you own the property, you can open a management company.

00:43:44.000 You're managing your own property.

00:43:45.000 So, also, she could verify people's employment.

00:43:48.000 I mean, people's, verify people's rent.

00:43:50.000 Yeah.

00:43:51.000 So, if you own a property management company, I remember it's called Utopian Properties.

00:43:56.000 So, if I need to verify your rent, they rent from her, and they could call a- Oh, so people that would borrow from you, you'd have them basically be one of your tenants.

00:44:05.000 If I have to.

00:44:07.000 Is this Friday web?

00:44:08.000 He's the one controlling the web.

00:44:10.000 Yeah, it gets worse and worse.

00:44:11.000 So, but what happens is the Gretchen, Gretchen and Pete, which is the manager and her husband open a place. 1.00

00:44:20.000 This is the white out lady, right? 1.00

00:44:21.000 White out lady. 1.00

00:44:22.000 And she ends up... 0.99

00:44:23.000 The devil.

00:44:24.000 They end up...

00:44:25.000 What do they do?

00:44:27.000 They end up running what's called the straw man scam.

00:44:31.000 So they had a couple of Italian guys that came in and bought a bunch of million-dollar properties that were probably selling for $500,000 or $600,000, but they could get them appraised for a million.

00:44:41.000 So they get a loan for a million, pull out $300,000, $400,000 on like four or five properties, and take the money and run. 0.99

00:44:50.000 They never make one payment, which is just completely stupid. 0.97

00:44:53.000 Like, if you'd made four or five payments, you'd have been fine. 0.98

00:44:55.000 But instead, these are first payment defaults.

00:44:57.000 So immediately, the bank says, You're a good risk.

00:45:02.000 We just lent you a million dollars.

00:45:04.000 You didn't make one payment?

00:45:06.000 Something's wrong.

00:45:07.000 So they investigate.

00:45:07.000 Had you made three payments and said, man, my business went under.

00:45:10.000 I can't pay.

00:45:11.000 That's reasonable.

00:45:11.000 That happens.

00:45:12.000 But no, just idiots. 1.00

00:45:14.000 Mob guys? 1.00

00:45:15.000 I think so.

00:45:16.000 I mean, I always thought so, you know.

00:45:18.000 So they basically, okay, so they went ahead, got a bunch of houses appraised, way over appraised, do cash out refinances, pull the money out, and they just never paid the loan back.

00:45:26.000 Or maybe even, I think some of them were even just direct purchases.

00:45:29.000 So the owner is in on it, possibly, right?

00:45:33.000 So you only want 700,000, I buy it for a million, you cut me a check back for 300,000.

00:45:38.000 Maybe you don't even cut it back.

00:45:39.000 Maybe we just have part of the proceeds go directly to a construction company, right?

00:45:44.000 Like I did that all the time.

00:45:45.000 Where I'll get you money out at closing, you'll walk away with 40 grand.

00:45:48.000 You bring 10, you'll walk away with 40.

00:45:50.000 So, and it goes to a construction company, and then I cut the check back to you.

00:45:54.000 So, that I own.

00:45:56.000 And you would do that for people that wanted to...

00:45:58.000 So you didn't just do loans, you did refinances as well.

00:46:00.000 Oh yeah, we did refis, we did everything.

00:46:01.000 And we were an FHA approved lender, VA approved subprime. 0.99

00:46:04.000 Oh shit, FHA too? 0.99

00:46:05.000 FHA and? 1.00

00:46:06.000 Yeah, we were...

00:46:07.000 Wow.

00:46:07.000 Listen, from the outside, it looked extremely...

00:46:09.000 No wonder the fence went after you.

00:46:10.000 It looked extremely legit.

00:46:12.000 Yeah.

00:46:12.000 You know, from the outside.

00:46:13.000 Yeah.

00:46:14.000 You practically thought you were walking into a bank.

00:46:16.000 Everybody looks good. 0.96

00:46:17.000 It's dirty as hell.

00:46:18.000 Do you ever feel any remorse at all? 0.81

00:46:21.000 No.

00:46:22.000 I have, yeah.

00:46:24.000 I'm not saying I'm 100%.

00:46:27.000 You're ripping off the banks.

00:46:28.000 Yeah, and I'm not saying I'm 100% sociopath, but I'm definitely on the sociopathic scale.

00:46:32.000 I have very little empathy.

00:46:34.000 And then there are some things I have extreme empathy for.

00:46:37.000 If we talk about my mom, I'll cry like that.

00:46:40.000 If we talk about my ex-wife to a certain – or I'm sorry, not my ex-wife, to my wife, about my wife, like that.

00:46:45.000 Talk about my son, boom, immediately.

00:46:47.000 But you could talk about people, other people, and I have virtually – I don't know this person.

00:46:52.000 I don't care about this person.

00:46:53.000 This person means nothing to me.

00:46:56.000 It's horrible. 0.99

00:46:58.000 It just comes along with being just narcissistic.

00:47:01.000 So anyway, what ends up happening is they end up running a scam.

00:47:06.000 Okay, why not lady and her husband?

00:47:07.000 Yes, the feds come in. 0.50

00:47:09.000 So they have their own business.

00:47:10.000 So did she work for you at this point?

00:47:12.000 No, no, she started her own business.

00:47:13.000 She came for a few months until she made some money, and then she goes and opens her own place. 0.99

00:47:17.000 Okay, so she worked for you first, then she went and started her own business. 1.00

00:47:19.000 Yes.

00:47:20.000 Creative lending.

00:47:22.000 Yeah, creative mortgage brokers.

00:47:24.000 So the FBI comes in.

00:47:26.000 Now, here's the thing.

00:47:27.000 Remember all the properties that I had bought or my ex-wife had bought?

00:47:31.000 Yeah.

00:47:31.000 And she got loans on.

00:47:32.000 She can't get those loans in my company because It's not an arm's length transaction.

00:47:39.000 So I sent her to Gretchen's company. 0.96

00:47:43.000 So when the feds come in and grab her files or whatever they do, first of all, she comes to me immediately and says, can you get me $75,000 to pay an attorney?

00:47:53.000 She goes, can you refinance my house?

00:47:55.000 I said, yeah, of course.

00:47:56.000 You know, I want to help her.

00:47:57.000 Like I, you know, I don't know how things work by this point.

00:47:59.000 This is Gretchenette came to you.

00:48:00.000 Whiteout woman. 1.00

00:48:01.000 Whiteout woman. 1.00

00:48:01.000 So she, she wants. 1.00

00:48:03.000 And you didn't know that she got, or the feds came after her.

00:48:06.000 No, I didn't know.

00:48:06.000 I did know.

00:48:06.000 I felt horrible.

00:48:07.000 Like, oh my gosh, what happened?

00:48:08.000 And she tells me what happened.

00:48:10.000 You know, these guys, they came in and yeah, I knew the loans were fraudulent, but I was making like, she made like, she was making like 20 and $30,000 broker fees on these things.

00:48:17.000 I'm like, you knew it.

00:48:18.000 She's like, well, I assume they'd at least make some payments. 0.99

00:48:20.000 Like I didn't know they were fucking. 0.99

00:48:21.000 Oh, because she was giving loans to these Italians. 1.00

00:48:23.000 Yes.

00:48:24.000 There you go.

00:48:24.000 Okay.

00:48:24.000 That's the straw man scam, right?

00:48:26.000 Yeah.

00:48:26.000 Because they're straw men.

00:48:27.000 They're not really buying it to be real people.

00:48:29.000 They're fake people.

00:48:30.000 We're not even fake people.

00:48:30.000 It's a real person.

00:48:31.000 But you're not really going to make the payment.

00:48:33.000 Gotcha.

00:48:34.000 You're just someone to stand there and get a loan and then leave.

00:48:37.000 Now I understand.

00:48:37.000 Okay.

00:48:38.000 So she just gave a bunch of loans out to these potentially mob guys that were just buying these houses, overinflated, taking out cash out refinances, running, not making any payments. 0.65

00:48:46.000 Obviously, yeah, that's going to get on the Fed's radar immediately. 0.99

00:48:48.000 What the fuck? 0.99

00:48:48.000 And she did a bunch of these loans. 0.99

00:48:50.000 Okay.

00:48:50.000 They come in.

00:48:51.000 They grab her.

00:48:53.000 She comes to me, can you refinance my house, get me $75,000? 0.99

00:48:56.000 She's like, you know, they've seized bank account, they're freezing stuff, and I'm like, yeah.

00:49:00.000 I'm like, of course.

00:49:02.000 What's so funny is my ex-wife, her name is Kayla, she had had family members that had been arrested and gone to jail.

00:49:12.000 And the first thing she said to me was, stop talking to them.

00:49:16.000 And I went, why?

00:49:18.000 She goes, they're going to cooperate against you to try and get time knocked off their sentence.

00:49:23.000 And I went, what are you talking about?

00:49:25.000 This is a foreign concept of mine.

00:49:28.000 We went to Puerto Rico with them.

00:49:30.000 We babysit each other's kids. 0.99

00:49:31.000 She's not going to fucking tell on me. 0.99

00:49:33.000 And she's like, okay, I'm just telling you. 0.99

00:49:35.000 I'm telling you right now.

00:49:37.000 And I was like...

00:49:38.000 Listen, if I had listened to my ex-wife, every single thing she ever told me was right, came right.

00:49:43.000 Every single time, you're going to get in trouble for that.

00:49:46.000 You're going to just watch.

00:49:47.000 You're going to get in trouble.

00:49:47.000 They're going to come get you.

00:49:48.000 And I'm like, you don't know anything.

00:49:50.000 Even after this happens.

00:49:51.000 So, you know.

00:49:52.000 I can feel her shoes.

00:49:55.000 Myron.

00:49:56.000 What?

00:49:56.000 What are you talking about?

00:49:57.000 Nothing.

00:49:58.000 Go ahead.

00:49:58.000 I'm lost.

00:49:59.000 Okay.

00:50:00.000 Okay.

00:50:01.000 So, yeah.

00:50:01.000 So, sorry.

00:50:02.000 So, I don't know what to call her.

00:50:03.000 Okay.

00:50:04.000 So, 75K. She wants to cash out a refund. 0.98

00:50:06.000 Right.

00:50:07.000 So I go, okay, no problem.

00:50:09.000 I'm like, okay, well, wait a minute.

00:50:10.000 You don't qualify for it.

00:50:12.000 You don't have a business at this point.

00:50:14.000 And she said, no, it's okay.

00:50:16.000 She's like, I'll provide W-2s, pay stubs, the whole thing to verify this and that. 0.52

00:50:20.000 And I was like, all right, no problem.

00:50:21.000 She provides them for me.

00:50:24.000 They verify their own employment.

00:50:26.000 The whole thing, it goes through, no problem.

00:50:27.000 Get them 75 grand.

00:50:28.000 They pay their attorney, this high-priced attorney.

00:50:31.000 He immediately says, you need to cooperate against this guy.

00:50:36.000 The lawyer you got the money for them to hire says, go cooperate against Matt.

00:50:41.000 This is a good guy to cooperate against.

00:50:42.000 This guy's doing bad stuff.

00:50:44.000 So she works with the FBI. So one day I get a phone call from her and she says, hey, can you meet me for lunch?

00:50:50.000 And I was like, yeah, meet me at the pizza place.

00:50:52.000 Because I said, I didn't want her coming in my office because at this point, everybody in the office, she would call and somebody would pick it up and be like, hey, Gretchen's on line three. 0.98

00:51:00.000 And then they would all go, whoop, whoop. 0.99

00:51:01.000 They start making noises and I'd be like, cut the shit. 1.00

00:51:04.000 Like I feel bad for her, right? 1.00

00:51:06.000 Like that's back when I was probably a more decent person.

00:51:10.000 So I end up going to a pizza place.

00:51:13.000 I meet her and her husband.

00:51:15.000 She sits down and she says, listen, when the FBI came in, they grabbed a bunch of our files.

00:51:19.000 And I'm like, they did?

00:51:19.000 And she's like, yeah.

00:51:20.000 And they grabbed a bunch of Kayla's files.

00:51:22.000 That's my ex-wife. 1.00

00:51:22.000 And I'm like, what? 1.00

00:51:23.000 And she goes, yeah.

00:51:24.000 She said, they're asking a lot of questions about her and you.

00:51:28.000 I go, oh my god.

00:51:29.000 I go, you didn't tell them we were married, did you?

00:51:30.000 Because she had bought them all in her maiden name.

00:51:32.000 And then I, all the properties.

00:51:34.000 And I went, oh, I said, you didn't tell them the W-2s and pay stubs were fake, did you?

00:51:37.000 Like, I just buried myself.

00:51:39.000 And literally, like, I remember thinking, like, and this probably meant nothing.

00:51:42.000 She was probably wired.

00:51:43.000 Were they recording?

00:51:44.000 Well, yeah, it's funny, too, because both of them had, like, placed their cell phones next to me.

00:51:48.000 Now, maybe it wasn't in the cell phone.

00:51:49.000 What year is this now, are we talking?

00:51:50.000 This is 2001, 2002?

00:51:52.000 Probably 2001.

00:51:53.000 Okay. 0.97

00:51:54.000 And it may have meant nothing, but I remember immediately looking down at the cell phones thinking, ah, shit. 0.97

00:51:59.000 Because as I'm starting to talk, well, as I was starting to talk, I said, you know, you didn't tell them this, you didn't tell them this, you didn't tell them this. 0.96

00:52:06.000 And then I said, okay, listen, here's what you do.

00:52:08.000 Tell them that you never met her in person.

00:52:11.000 Like, I start trying to come up with a way to explain it away so they can't be held liable.

00:52:18.000 They've never met her.

00:52:19.000 And if nobody talks, it might go away.

00:52:22.000 That's my best bet, right?

00:52:24.000 So I immediately come up with this.

00:52:25.000 And as I'm telling her that, she says, Matt, we can't lie to the FBI. I'm like, what are you talking about?

00:52:31.000 You've been lying to the FBI. I started to go into the refi, and Pete stands up and he goes, we've never lied to the FBI. We might not have told them everything, but we've never lied.

00:52:44.000 And I was like...

00:52:45.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:52:46.000 That's a little...

00:52:46.000 What an APC. That's a little...

00:52:49.000 Yeah.

00:52:49.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:52:50.000 Here's the thing.

00:52:51.000 Well, it's like I'm like, who are you talking to? 1.00

00:52:53.000 In a fucking big-ass pizza restaurant. 1.00

00:52:56.000 What the fuck? 1.00

00:52:57.000 But first of all, who are you selling this to? 1.00

00:52:59.000 Because I know you lied.

00:53:00.000 Yeah.

00:53:00.000 So you're not saying it for my benefit.

00:53:02.000 So I'm looking and I'm like... 1.00

00:53:03.000 And I immediately think, oh, fuck. 1.00

00:53:05.000 Kelly was right. 1.00

00:53:06.000 That's when it hits you, right?

00:53:07.000 Yeah, and that's when I see the cell phones and I'm like, oh.

00:53:10.000 And I did.

00:53:10.000 I looked right at Gretchen and I said...

00:53:12.000 I said, man, I hope you get something for this.

00:53:15.000 And she starts crying immediately, and she says, Matt, we don't have to go to jail.

00:53:19.000 She goes, I have a kid.

00:53:21.000 I said, I don't have a kid?

00:53:23.000 And she goes, and she's like, I'm sorry, Matt, I'm sorry.

00:53:26.000 And she just starts crying.

00:53:27.000 I said, listen, I said, tell the FBI not to come to my office, because when they went to her office, everybody quit.

00:53:33.000 Oh.

00:53:34.000 Because they know what they're doing.

00:53:35.000 So I said, just tell them to call me.

00:53:38.000 So she goes, I'm so sorry, man.

00:53:40.000 I just get up and I walk out.

00:53:41.000 So like 20 minutes later, I get back to the office and the FBI agent calls.

00:53:45.000 I'll never forget.

00:53:45.000 His name was Agent Scott Gale.

00:53:48.000 I only remember that because we lived on a...

00:53:50.000 This is in Tampa or where are you at at this point?

00:53:52.000 I'm in Tampa.

00:53:53.000 You're in Tampa, okay.

00:53:54.000 So anyway, he says, will you come downtown?

00:53:56.000 He said, I think you know what this is about.

00:53:58.000 And I'm like, yeah, I do know what it's about.

00:54:00.000 You have a big office in Tampa.

00:54:01.000 I said, I scheduled it for like a Tuesday.

00:54:04.000 And then...

00:54:08.000 Yeah, I'm good.

00:54:08.000 What was going through your head at this time?

00:54:10.000 Like, when is this happening with the call?

00:54:12.000 Wait, do you want another coffee, Matt?

00:54:13.000 No, no, I'm good.

00:54:14.000 Okay, okay.

00:54:14.000 Thank you.

00:54:16.000 No, what was happening was, you know, I know I'm in trouble.

00:54:21.000 Like, but I don't really know what they know.

00:54:23.000 I'm not really sure.

00:54:24.000 When he stood up, you knew they were recording.

00:54:26.000 Oh, I knew.

00:54:27.000 I knew, yeah. 1.00

00:54:28.000 Once he stood up and said that stupid, like, what the fuck, bro? 1.00

00:54:31.000 And then the FBI calls me. 1.00

00:54:32.000 Like, so if I was questioning it, They confirmed it.

00:54:35.000 That same day, did they call you?

00:54:36.000 Oh, within 20 minutes.

00:54:37.000 Oh, wow.

00:54:38.000 They didn't even pretend.

00:54:39.000 They had you on surveillance.

00:54:40.000 Yeah, they had you on surveillance.

00:54:42.000 By the way.

00:54:42.000 They called you when they knew you were back at the office.

00:54:44.000 It's like a movie, bro.

00:54:45.000 Yeah.

00:54:45.000 So, you know, what's even funnier about that is that I later realized there was a guy, the FBI agent was in there with me, right?

00:54:53.000 Really?

00:54:53.000 Yeah, well, you know, they can't really wire you and, you know, what if I attack them?

00:54:57.000 Like, they have to kind of be close.

00:54:58.000 But I think he was actually there.

00:55:00.000 And I'll never forget...

00:55:01.000 Yeah, 100%.

00:55:02.000 You're on surveillance like that, because what probably ended up happening is they're cooperating defendants, so they had them wired up, and then you have an agent in there as well.

00:55:09.000 What's funny is, there was a guy, when I'm talking to Pete, there was a guy behind him who had a slice of pizza, and you know how they put the napkin underneath the pizza, and they fold it?

00:55:19.000 He was eating the pizza, and he was eating the napkin!

00:55:23.000 And I go, hey, hey, bro.

00:55:25.000 Hey, hey, hey.

00:55:26.000 And so Pete's like, the two of them were panicked, right?

00:55:30.000 And then the guy's like not looking.

00:55:32.000 And then finally he looks up and he's like, yeah.

00:55:35.000 And I go, you're eating your napkin, bro.

00:55:37.000 And he goes, what?

00:55:38.000 I said, your napkin.

00:55:39.000 He goes...

00:55:40.000 Oh. 0.99

00:55:41.000 And then I remember Pete and Gretchen, they start laughing too, and they're like, because, you know, like, oh my god, this motherfucker just is yelling at the FBI agent, and, you know, you know what I'm saying? 0.95

00:55:52.000 They're like, but they were so nervous, and I was like, okay, so what are we doing? 0.96

00:55:56.000 Like, and then they start telling me the whole thing about the FBI. But I realized later, that had to be him.

00:56:00.000 Their reaction, the whole thing, like, that had to be the guy.

00:56:02.000 Wow.

00:56:02.000 Anyway, the point is, is that I end up going and getting an attorney, and I pay him $75,000.

00:56:09.000 Apparently that's the going rate.

00:56:10.000 You need an extraction team just for the audience so they understand what the hell.

00:56:12.000 Whenever you have like a cooperative defendant or an informant or even an undercover agent and they're doing an operation like that, you need something called an extraction team.

00:56:19.000 So you want someone on the premise.

00:56:20.000 So if something did go bad, he pulls out a gun or something like that.

00:56:22.000 They're able to kind of intervene and pull the sources out.

00:56:25.000 You never know.

00:56:25.000 I mean, I'm not.

00:56:26.000 Not him, but that's a standard procedure.

00:56:28.000 So just for the audience knows.

00:56:30.000 You need a movie, man.

00:56:32.000 This is a good story.

00:56:32.000 I'm working on it.

00:56:33.000 This is nothing, bro.

00:56:34.000 This is a joke so far.

00:56:36.000 This is nothing.

00:56:37.000 I'll get into other stuff.

00:56:40.000 I'm sorry.

00:56:41.000 I'll do this real quick.

00:56:43.000 So what ends up happening, like I'm literally on 5% into the story, so I'm going to speed it up a little bit.

00:56:48.000 So what happens is I hire an attorney, and I had mentioned this to you earlier.

00:56:54.000 Oh yeah, you went into the office.

00:56:56.000 Because the agent, Gail, right?

00:56:58.000 He calls you and says, hey, we need you to come to office.

00:57:00.000 Yeah, but I don't go.

00:57:00.000 I don't go.

00:57:01.000 Oh, you didn't show. 1.00

00:57:01.000 No, fuck no. 1.00

00:57:02.000 I go get an attorney. 1.00

00:57:04.000 The attorney calls us.

00:57:04.000 He's not coming in.

00:57:05.000 Okay.

00:57:05.000 I pay my attorney $75,000.

00:57:09.000 He arranges for me not to even talk to him, right?

00:57:11.000 You have to do a proffer, right?

00:57:13.000 But he proffers for me.

00:57:15.000 First of all, when he first comes in, he said, my attorney's like, look, they said there's half a million dollars in a loss on all these properties.

00:57:22.000 And keep in mind, They only know about, they only have two or three of the properties.

00:57:26.000 That your wife got? 1.00

00:57:27.000 That my wife got.

00:57:28.000 And she's got probably eight or 10, but we only did like two or three with Gretchen.

00:57:32.000 And some of those were rehabs where we bought it, renovated it, rented out, and then sold it.

00:57:36.000 Okay.

00:57:37.000 So we're flipping them.

00:57:38.000 So they got the price point of the home before you rehabbed it, which is less.

00:57:44.000 Yeah, they think that we jacked up the appraisals, but really we bought it for $80,000, put $100,000 in it, got it appraised at $250,000, and sold it, and refinanced it at $250,000.

00:57:56.000 But they're thinking you got a $200,000 loan on a house that's worth $80,000.

00:58:00.000 And that's not true.

00:58:01.000 Or you pulled out the money, used that money to renovate it, but that's not true.

00:58:03.000 I had the money.

00:58:04.000 So we're arguing there's no potential loss, there's no loss, none of that's true.

00:58:11.000 I never borrowed more than what the house was worth at the time, so I'm explaining those to me.

00:58:14.000 That's what they were thinking.

00:58:15.000 That's what they were thinking.

00:58:16.000 Because Gretchen's loans before is what she did. 1.00

00:58:17.000 And Gretchen doesn't really know what I'm doing. 0.86

00:58:19.000 So anyway, the point is that my attorney goes back to them, and he explains it, and they come back and they say, you're right, there's no loss, and there's no potential loss.

00:58:30.000 And in fact, I had already sold like two of the properties.

00:58:31.000 There's only like one or two left to be sold, and we had contracts because these are flips, some of these.

00:58:37.000 Now, the other ones I had closed at other places like credit unions and things with better interest rates, and so I don't have to go to Gretchen.

00:58:44.000 So the point is that… As we're talking, my attorney comes to me and he says, listen, there's no dollar loss, and you haven't been indicted yet.

00:58:55.000 And he goes, I can keep you from being indicted.

00:58:58.000 He said, we can do a pretrial intervention.

00:59:01.000 And I went, okay, what's that?

00:59:02.000 He said, you have no criminal record, and there's no dollar loss.

00:59:06.000 He said, if you go to your mortgage company, He said, because the FBI was told by Gretchen that I was running a mill, right?

00:59:15.000 Like I'm just cranking out bad loans.

00:59:17.000 And if you go in there, grab 10 files of your most egregious frauds for your mortgage brokers and bring them in and work with the FBI, then I can keep you from being indicted.

00:59:32.000 So give them ten people.

00:59:34.000 It would have been five or six, but yeah.

00:59:36.000 Give them five or six people, and then they'll indict them, and you just work with the FBI against them.

00:59:43.000 Put it together for them.

00:59:44.000 And so you give them them, and you walk away. 1.00

00:59:46.000 And I went, this is so stupid. 0.99

00:59:49.000 Because I was like, I'm not doing that. 1.00

00:59:52.000 Like, I'm not gonna fucking rat out my friends. 0.92

00:59:54.000 These are my employees. 0.97

00:59:56.000 These are guys.

00:59:56.000 These are my buddies.

00:59:57.000 These are my, you know, not knowing at the time that they all cooperated against me and later did.

01:00:04.000 Wow.

01:00:04.000 So I could have, you know, I look back, if I look back, and I really almost never look back, by the way, if I ever look back at anything, there's only one or two events, and that was one of them, because my lawyer really He really tried to convince me.

01:00:16.000 And I was just like, you know, I looked, I was just like disgusted that he would even suggest it.

01:00:20.000 If that same thing had happened now, I would have shown up there with a dolly.

01:00:26.000 And I would have scooped up the file cabinets in front of everybody in the morning meeting. 1.00

01:00:31.000 And I would have said, you fuckers better go get some fucking attorneys. 1.00

01:00:35.000 You're going to have some shit about to go down. 1.00

01:00:37.000 And I would have walked right out in front of all of them because it wasn't worth it. 0.99

01:00:41.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:00:41.000 Like I'm not a gangster.

01:00:43.000 I thought I was a gangster, but I realized that there weren't any.

01:00:46.000 So I say no.

01:00:49.000 I take the charge.

01:00:51.000 They drop everything against my wife. 0.99

01:00:53.000 I say she didn't know anything.

01:00:54.000 They don't really believe that, but they just want somebody.

01:00:57.000 And they're like, look, if you – I'm like I orchestrated the whole thing.

01:00:59.000 She didn't have a clue what was going on.

01:01:00.000 So you did end up getting indicted.

01:01:01.000 Yeah, I did.

01:01:03.000 Well, I didn't get indicted.

01:01:04.000 You got hit with information, probably?

01:01:06.000 Yeah, you just sign off on the indictment.

01:01:07.000 You don't have to indict me.

01:01:08.000 You agree to not be indicted.

01:01:09.000 You just agree to take the charge.

01:01:10.000 So they gave you an information then, probably.

01:01:11.000 So I do it.

01:01:13.000 I get charged with wire fraud.

01:01:14.000 I get three years probation.

01:01:15.000 Chad, wire information is when the AUSA basically charges you formally, but without a grand jury.

01:01:21.000 So a lot of times that happens when you cooperate or you come forward.

01:01:24.000 Typically, you get a better sentence when you do that.

01:01:26.000 So yes, you got hit with an information from the AUSA. You think Dede's going to do that?

01:01:31.000 No, they're going to probably indict him.

01:01:33.000 Oh, sure.

01:01:33.000 I think they're probably going to indict him, yeah.

01:01:35.000 Yeah, and then he's going to fight it and probably go to prison.

01:01:37.000 Yeah, I think what he's going to do, he's going to get indicted and then he's going to fight for not to be released and not to be on bond because he's like telling his...

01:01:44.000 Right now, his lawyers are telling HSI everything that he's doing because I think he knows he's going to get indicted.

01:01:49.000 They've been convening the grand jury for him.

01:01:51.000 So the mantra of, if you have money, you can do whatever you want, isn't really all the way true, right?

01:01:57.000 Oh, yeah.

01:01:58.000 No, no.

01:01:58.000 I mean, if you're doomed, you're doomed, you know?

01:02:01.000 But it does help.

01:02:03.000 But, I mean, let's face it.

01:02:04.000 Even in this situation, I could have walked away.

01:02:06.000 Yeah.

01:02:06.000 That's not a deal for anybody.

01:02:07.000 Like, a public defender is not going to get you that deal.

01:02:10.000 Hell no.

01:02:11.000 That's a paid attorney who's saying, look, I'll go.

01:02:13.000 Because when you cooperate, he's got to go sit in on all those meetings.

01:02:18.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:02:19.000 He has to do a bunch.

01:02:20.000 It takes a lot more on his part.

01:02:23.000 Yeah.

01:02:23.000 Most of them just want you to plead guilty.

01:02:24.000 That's easy for them.

01:02:35.000 Okay, so your wife divorces you during all this time.

01:02:38.000 Even though you just protected her from getting indicted.

01:02:40.000 But she warned you, though.

01:02:42.000 Yeah, she did warn me.

01:02:45.000 We had a difference in opinion on our marriage.

01:02:51.000 She was insistent that I not sleep with other people.

01:02:55.000 I felt that that was something that was acceptable.

01:02:58.000 Yeah!

01:03:02.000 And she was adamant about it, no matter how many discussions we had.

01:03:06.000 So she divorces me.

01:03:11.000 I think, whatever.

01:03:12.000 She got all the rental properties, like 100 grand.

01:03:15.000 I'm paying a couple thousand dollars a month in child support.

01:03:17.000 It's outrageous.

01:03:18.000 My minimum bills are like $8,000 or $9,000 a month.

01:03:22.000 But no jail time.

01:03:24.000 No, no.

01:03:24.000 Just probation.

01:03:25.000 Yeah, probation.

01:03:26.000 How long were you on probation for?

01:03:27.000 If I had completed it, three years.

01:03:30.000 So what ends up happening is I end up selling my mortgage company to a guy who's a CPA, and he pays me...

01:03:39.000 Seven or eight?

01:03:40.000 No, $8,000 a month, I think.

01:03:42.000 So he's paying me eight grand a month, and then I turn around and I open a development company.

01:03:46.000 And what I decide I'm going to do is I'm going to start flipping houses, right?

01:03:49.000 I'm just going to start buying houses in Ybor City.

01:03:50.000 It's a part of Tampa.

01:03:51.000 I don't know if you've ever been there.

01:03:53.000 So it's just outside of downtown.

01:03:57.000 There's old cigar shops.

01:03:58.000 It's really like a nicer version of probably 7th Avenue.

01:04:02.000 I'm sorry, of Bourbon Street.

01:04:05.000 Okay.

01:04:05.000 So super nice or super interesting, that kind of old red brick and red brick roads and warehouses and stuff.

01:04:12.000 So I go out there.

01:04:14.000 I start buying houses.

01:04:15.000 And what I decide I'm going to do is I want to buy houses, fix them up, and sell them.

01:04:18.000 And back then...

01:04:21.000 This is where we at now.

01:04:22.000 Are we in 2002 or 2003?

01:04:24.000 This is probably 2001.

01:04:25.000 Still?

01:04:25.000 Okay, alright.

01:04:26.000 2001.

01:04:26.000 So in 2001, and I'll speed through it.

01:04:29.000 No, no, you're good.

01:04:30.000 Because in 2001, what I do is I decide I'm going to buy houses for like $50,000.

01:04:36.000 Because you could buy like a crack house for 50 grand.

01:04:38.000 You could dump 25 in it and probably sell it for 100.

01:04:41.000 Yeah.

01:04:43.000 And you'd make $25,000, right?

01:04:44.000 You never do make $25,000, but it sounds good.

01:04:46.000 Whatever.

01:04:47.000 It's close, right?

01:04:48.000 And so what I realized was the problem with buying in a lower middle class area, and keep in mind this is 20 years ago.

01:04:56.000 So those same houses that look just as she are all selling for $300,000, $400,000 and need work.

01:05:04.000 So anyway, so I say, I'm going to go and I'm going to buy these houses.

01:05:08.000 And I went, do you know what I'm going to do?

01:05:11.000 But I'm going to buy them, fix them up, and sell them.

01:05:13.000 But who's going to buy in this area?

01:05:14.000 Like lower middle class people, they have credit problems. 1.00

01:05:18.000 They have credit problems.

01:05:18.000 They can't come up with their down payments.

01:05:20.000 You know, so I'm going to have to come up with people's down payments.

01:05:22.000 You start thinking about it, it's like, God, this is going to be a real hassle.

01:05:24.000 So then I go, okay, you know what I'm going to do is...

01:05:28.000 You know what I'll do is I'll buy those houses, and you don't make any money.

01:05:33.000 To deal with that, you don't make any money.

01:05:34.000 So I was like, how can I get these houses to appraise higher than the $100,000 they're worth?

01:05:40.000 And so I happened to be dating a chick from a title company, and I go and I explain my situation to her, and I say, I want these things to appraise at like $200,000.

01:05:47.000 And she goes, well, if you pay the extra doc stamps on the deed, then the sale will show up higher.

01:05:54.000 And I went, okay, so for instance, right now if you buy a house for $100,000, you pay $700 in doc stamps.

01:06:00.000 Now, if you buy for $100,000, you go to record the sale in public records, what if you give them $1,400?

01:06:07.000 It automatically shows up as a $200,000 sale.

01:06:11.000 So I'm buying these properties for $50,000, let's say.

01:06:15.000 So a $50,000 property, I'm spending $350 in Dox Amps, right?

01:06:18.000 So if you just go ahead and give them an extra $1,050, Now the sale's going to show up at $200,000.

01:06:28.000 That's a crack house. 0.62

01:06:29.000 It's horrible, right? 1.00

01:06:30.000 Holy shit. 1.00

01:06:31.000 So I thought, that's great. 1.00

01:06:32.000 That's what I'll do.

01:06:33.000 If I do enough of these, the whole area will come up.

01:06:35.000 If I stay within a mile and buy them right away, then the whole area will come up.

01:06:40.000 Because for the audience, real quick, guys, in residential real estate, comparables is how the properties are evaluated.

01:06:47.000 So if you have a house here that's $100,000, then another one here, $100,000, then another one here, the fourth house is going to be $100,000 because that's how they evaluate.

01:06:53.000 So if you buy a bunch in an area, You're bringing up the value of all the homes in the area because of the comparables.

01:06:59.000 Or if you buy a house for $100,000 and all the houses around it are going for $200,000 and you go to sell your house or refinance, you'll get an appraisal that says your house is worth $200,000.

01:07:08.000 Even though you just bought it for $100,000.

01:07:10.000 Yep.

01:07:11.000 Because of all the houses in the other area.

01:07:12.000 And that's residential, guys.

01:07:13.000 It's heavily contingent upon comparable, sir.

01:07:15.000 Right.

01:07:15.000 Three comparable sales.

01:07:17.000 So you have the residence and the comparable sales.

01:07:21.000 So I was like, okay.

01:07:22.000 But if I record these for $200,000, the lower income people aren't going to be able to buy them.

01:07:26.000 And they're not going to want to buy them.

01:07:27.000 So I can create my own sales.

01:07:30.000 But my borrowers aren't going to be able to buy them.

01:07:33.000 So what I really need to do is create my own borrowers.

01:07:36.000 The borrowers are the problem. 0.76

01:07:37.000 So I need to create my own borrowers.

01:07:41.000 I figure out—I go to Social Security.

01:07:45.000 I figure out how to go to Social Security and get Social Security to issue me Social Security numbers to children that don't exist. 0.99

01:07:54.000 Oh, shit. 0.99

01:07:55.000 And I do this by calling over and over and over again. 1.00

01:07:57.000 Like, I call once and say, hey, I'm 30—like, at that point, I was like, whatever, like, 33.

01:08:01.000 I'm 33 years old, and— You know, or 32, whatever I was.

01:08:06.000 I was like, I'm 32 years old and I've never had a social security number.

01:08:08.000 And they're like, that's not possible. 0.99

01:08:10.000 What the fuck? 1.00

01:08:10.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:08:11.000 Yeah.

01:08:11.000 They're like, you have a driver's license.

01:08:12.000 Do you have a bank account?

01:08:13.000 Do you have a, you just hang up the phone. 1.00

01:08:14.000 Fuck. 1.00

01:08:14.000 You know, so you call back and you're like, um, so, you know, you kind of go through different, um, Yeah, different people. 1.00

01:08:21.000 You never get the same person.

01:08:22.000 There's 500 people answering the phone.

01:08:24.000 So then I call back and I'm like, I was born in another country.

01:08:30.000 And then they're like, do you have a green card?

01:08:32.000 Do you have this?

01:08:32.000 Do you have that?

01:08:33.000 Click.

01:08:33.000 So then I started thinking, okay.

01:08:36.000 Who wouldn't have a social – because they kept saying nobody gets to 33 or 32 years old without a social security number.

01:08:41.000 So I said, a young person.

01:08:43.000 So I call up and I say, hey, I got a three-year-old son.

01:08:46.000 He doesn't have a social security number.

01:08:48.000 They go, was he born in a hospital?

01:08:49.000 I was like, yeah.

01:08:50.000 And they're like, well, if he's born in a hospital, he has a social security number.

01:08:52.000 Why don't you bring him down here with your driver's license and we'll look him up? 1.00

01:08:57.000 Fuck! 1.00

01:08:57.000 You hang up the phone. 1.00

01:08:59.000 So then I call again.

01:09:00.000 Then he's not in the country.

01:09:03.000 He's in whatever.

01:09:05.000 Brazil, Colombia, wherever.

01:09:07.000 So I keep calling.

01:09:08.000 Finally, one of them, somebody says, how old is he?

01:09:11.000 And I said, oh, he's like three.

01:09:12.000 And she said, oh, it's too bad he's three.

01:09:14.000 If he was under the age of 12, if he's 12 months or younger, you don't have to bring him in.

01:09:20.000 You could just bring his shot record and his birth certificate, and we can check the computer.

01:09:24.000 And if he doesn't have a Social Security number will issue one. 0.99

01:09:28.000 Damn. 0.99

01:09:29.000 So, fine arts degree. 1.00

01:09:31.000 Yeah.

01:09:31.000 I make a birth certificate.

01:09:34.000 Fine arts degree.

01:09:35.000 Fine arts degree.

01:09:36.000 I order a big ream of copy of void paper.

01:09:42.000 You know, what your birth certificate comes up.

01:09:44.000 Order that.

01:09:44.000 that.

01:09:44.000 You have to order like a couple thousand, right?

01:09:46.000 So I ordered that and then I, I make a template and I end up coming up with a birth certificate and then I get a shot record and go on Hillsborough County's, you know, vital statistics, whatever you get that printed out, you fill it out.

01:09:57.000 And so I go down there and I give it to the woman and she checks the computer and she goes, Oh wow.

01:10:04.000 A couple thousand, right? 0.99

01:10:05.000 What's really scary is, and I'm telling this a little out of sequence, but she actually calls somebody from the back to come, and I'm like, shit, and bricks. 0.99

01:10:13.000 I'm like, holy shit. 0.99

01:10:13.000 This is the first time you're doing this now. 0.99

01:10:15.000 I'm just shaking.

01:10:16.000 And the guy walks in, he's like, what's going on?

01:10:18.000 Well, he said this, and the guy goes, okay, hold on.

01:10:20.000 He goes, that happens, because we get about one of these a month.

01:10:22.000 He goes, no big deal.

01:10:23.000 Look, okay, do this, do this.

01:10:25.000 And he goes, yeah, yeah, there's never been an issue.

01:10:28.000 And she's like, oh, okay.

01:10:29.000 Well, what do I do?

01:10:29.000 Oh, go to screen five.

01:10:32.000 Name, does that look right?

01:10:33.000 Is that right?

01:10:34.000 Okay, yeah.

01:10:35.000 Perfect.

01:10:35.000 Okay.

01:10:35.000 Boom.

01:10:36.000 You'll have it in 10 days.

01:10:38.000 Nice.

01:10:38.000 10 days later, I get a little Social Security card.

01:10:43.000 I then turn around and I go and I apply for – I don't, of course, apply for a 10-month-old child.

01:10:47.000 I apply for a 33-year-old man, and I apply for secured credit cards.

01:10:52.000 I get three secured credit cards.

01:10:54.000 I start making the payments.

01:10:55.000 After six months – Keep in mind, I know all of this already because people have done this.

01:11:03.000 People have come in before with using their child social security number.

01:11:07.000 So I knew it was possible for a real person to alter their credit profile to get a completely different credit profile.

01:11:16.000 So if the person doesn't exist at all, it's super easy.

01:11:18.000 So we start making the payments and after six months, boom, they've got 700 credit scores.

01:11:22.000 So now, so you think, okay.

01:11:24.000 Secured credit cards.

01:11:25.000 We told you guys, that's how you build up your credit scores.

01:11:27.000 He's doing it the other way, but we teach guys to get their credit.

01:11:31.000 Secured credit cards.

01:11:32.000 Yeah, I always say, yeah.

01:11:33.000 Secured credit cards are, yeah.

01:11:35.000 You guys are seeing it here.

01:11:36.000 So I did that.

01:11:37.000 In the wrong way.

01:11:38.000 Right.

01:11:40.000 So I do that.

01:11:41.000 Yeah.

01:11:42.000 I also figured out how to make a driver's license.

01:11:47.000 Right?

01:11:47.000 Like, it doesn't have to pass for, like, a sheriff's deputy or anything or a cop, but it just has to pass to go get the loan.

01:11:53.000 Like, they don't do anything.

01:11:54.000 They grab it.

01:11:55.000 Yeah, they're just looking at it.

01:11:56.000 They make a copy.

01:11:57.000 So I sand off the information on, like, a driver's license, the information, and then I print this new information in reverse, and then I seal it in between a piece of transparency and glue, and then I trim off the side piece, and then I sand it all down.

01:12:09.000 You can still see the hologram, bits and pieces of the hologram, just like it's a five-year-old beat-up.

01:12:15.000 And just so you guys know, 20 years ago, driver's licenses were way easier to do this with than they are now.

01:12:21.000 These were still the plastic ones, but you're right.

01:12:22.000 They didn't have the face.

01:12:23.000 You know how now they have your face? 0.99

01:12:24.000 They have all these holograms and shit. 0.96

01:12:25.000 It's easier to fake them, yeah. 0.98

01:12:27.000 But the hologram was just, it said, Florida, Florida, Florida.

01:12:30.000 So, how hard is that?

01:12:32.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:12:32.000 So, I suppose that Bounster, you spoke about, for example, fake IDs, where girls used to do it back in the day, and you're right, it was so easy to just copy them and make a copy.

01:12:39.000 It was way easier back then, this is 20 years ago now, but yeah, that's why all these IDs now have all this shit on them, is because of this, but sorry, continue on.

01:12:44.000 And look, I would go in and open bank accounts with this ID. Damn! 1.00

01:12:48.000 I mean, sometimes they would grab them, they'd like look at the ID, and you're like, oh my god, Oh my god! 0.99

01:12:54.000 And they, okay, okay.

01:12:56.000 And they open the account.

01:12:57.000 So I make the fake ID. I've got 700 credit scores.

01:13:02.000 And, you know, obviously the guy needs employment.

01:13:04.000 We know I can do your employment.

01:13:06.000 He needs a bank account.

01:13:06.000 I've got your bank account.

01:13:08.000 You know, he needs canceled checks to prove that they make the payments.

01:13:12.000 Or maybe he just needs a management company to verify he's lived somewhere for five years.

01:13:18.000 I got all that.

01:13:19.000 So I have this guy go buy a house.

01:13:23.000 And then he buys another house.

01:13:24.000 And then I have another guy, create another guy.

01:13:26.000 He buys a house and he buys another one.

01:13:28.000 So another guy, he buys that.

01:13:30.000 So everybody buys about five or six houses.

01:13:32.000 And you were able to do this with these social security cards from babies?

01:13:36.000 Yes.

01:13:36.000 Okay.

01:13:36.000 So you did this thing a couple of times where you went in there less than 12 months old.

01:13:40.000 Yeah.

01:13:40.000 Born outside the country, you did it multiple times, got social security numbers issued.

01:13:44.000 Multiple times.

01:13:44.000 What were their names?

01:13:48.000 The names of the unborn kids.

01:13:50.000 I know you're asking because it's Quentin Tarantino.

01:13:54.000 Have you ever seen Reservoir Dogs?

01:13:56.000 I have, yeah.

01:13:57.000 Good movie.

01:13:58.000 It was James Redd, Brandon Green, Lee Black, Michael White, William Blue, David Silver.

01:14:08.000 Those are the names you used?

01:14:09.000 Yeah, I used all those names.

01:14:11.000 Which I thought was cute.

01:14:12.000 He's creative, man.

01:14:13.000 I thought that was cute, but when you get caught and you're talking to the prosecutors and everything, I'm like, eh, you know, and they got no sense of humor, bro.

01:14:22.000 The judge is looking at me when I got sentenced.

01:14:24.000 That was my favorite movie. 0.99

01:14:25.000 You fucked it up for me. 0.97

01:14:26.000 The judge doesn't think it's funny. 0.99

01:14:28.000 Oh, listen.

01:14:29.000 You're Mr.

01:14:30.000 Pink.

01:14:30.000 No, I'm not.

01:14:31.000 Why don't I be Mr.

01:14:32.000 Pink?

01:14:32.000 At some point, I satisfied...

01:14:35.000 At some point, I was satisfying loans, right?

01:14:37.000 So I'd borrow a mortgage, and then I'd prepare a satisfaction of mortgage from, like, Bank of America, and I'd satisfy the loan in public records.

01:14:45.000 And I would sign it, like, C. Montgomery Burns, which is the aging tycoon from The Simpsons.

01:14:49.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:14:50.000 Right, so, you know...

01:14:52.000 Monty Burns.

01:14:53.000 Of course, I'm notarizing them.

01:14:56.000 Oh, my God.

01:14:56.000 I'm doing the whole thing, right?

01:14:58.000 I got like 10 notary stamps, you know?

01:15:00.000 Yeah.

01:15:00.000 So anyway, so I start buying these houses, and we are recording the values higher.

01:15:06.000 So they're going for 200, 250.

01:15:08.000 You know, it got up higher and higher.

01:15:09.000 So now, you know, James Redd buys a house.

01:15:15.000 And then refinance it at $200,000.

01:15:18.000 He borrows maybe $180,000.

01:15:20.000 He gets maybe a 90% loan, which is like $180,000 on $200,000.

01:15:26.000 So I bought it for $50,000.

01:15:27.000 I put maybe $10,000 into it.

01:15:29.000 So you own them outright.

01:15:30.000 Yeah, I don't have to renovate it.

01:15:32.000 You're buying them outright.

01:15:33.000 Or maybe I get a hard money lender. 0.99

01:15:35.000 He doesn't give a shit. 0.99

01:15:35.000 He's getting 50 grand. 0.99

01:15:37.000 Of course, if I'm paying you back within two, three months, you're just throwing money at me.

01:15:41.000 Yeah, I trust you.

01:15:42.000 Right, of course.

01:15:43.000 You're good for it.

01:15:45.000 So what happens is, and I'm buying the house for maybe 40 or 50.

01:15:48.000 I'm putting 10 in it.

01:15:50.000 So I got maybe $60,000, maybe $70,000, and then I get a loan for $180,000.

01:15:55.000 You pay back that loan and you're walking away with like $130,000.

01:15:58.000 I'm walking away with $100,000, $110,000, $120,000, and I'm making the payments.

01:16:01.000 So James Redd would buy five properties and borrow like $1.1, $1.3 million.

01:16:07.000 From all of them?

01:16:07.000 Yep.

01:16:08.000 And then I would make the payments for three or four months worth of payments.

01:16:11.000 And then I would run up his credit card.

01:16:13.000 Of course, then I'd go apply for credit cards.

01:16:14.000 You're getting $10,000, $15,000 credit cards by that point because I see all these mortgages.

01:16:17.000 Because you did the work and you used the secured credit cards in the beginning and brought his credit scores to $700,000.

01:16:20.000 He's got 700 credit scores.

01:16:22.000 He's got five mortgages.

01:16:23.000 He's got three credit cards that are being paid for.

01:16:25.000 So now I can go get a couple personal loans for $15,000 apiece.

01:16:28.000 So I'm running this thing up.

01:16:29.000 I'm making like $600,000, $700,000, right?

01:16:32.000 Even though I'm borrowing $1.3 million.

01:16:33.000 Some of it has to go to pay for the house and the renovation and the payments.

01:16:36.000 And then after a few payments, I just stopped paying.

01:16:39.000 And so the house is going to foreclosure.

01:16:42.000 The banks come in.

01:16:43.000 They take the houses back.

01:16:45.000 And they don't understand what happened.

01:16:47.000 Like, they put it back on the market and try and sell it.

01:16:49.000 So they're like, okay, we owe $180,000 wrapped up in this property, plus the foreclosure fees.

01:16:55.000 Put it back on the market.

01:16:57.000 And they'll put it on the market for six or seven months, and then maybe they go, God, it's not selling.

01:17:02.000 You know what?

01:17:02.000 Let's get an appraisal.

01:17:03.000 So they do an appraisal.

01:17:04.000 Uh-oh.

01:17:05.000 There's comparables.

01:17:06.000 What are you talking about?

01:17:06.000 Uh-oh.

01:17:07.000 There's comparables.

01:17:07.000 110, 105, 110.

01:17:09.000 Because he bought all the same neighborhood.

01:17:11.000 Sorry, not 110.

01:17:11.000 Sorry.

01:17:12.000 Because you bought them all close to each other, right?

01:17:13.000 They're everywhere.

01:17:14.000 Well, you bought all of them.

01:17:15.000 Not every house, but here's the thing.

01:17:19.000 If a house sold for $60,000, it's a shithole.

01:17:23.000 If you drive by my house, I put $10,000 on the outside.

01:17:26.000 $15,000, $20,000 on the outside.

01:17:27.000 Trim the trees, mow the yard.

01:17:29.000 I painted the house. 0.99

01:17:30.000 So if you drive by, you're an appraiser, drive by the house, you go, fuck, it looks like it's in great shape. 0.99

01:17:34.000 Now, it's gutted inside. 1.00

01:17:36.000 You can't live in this house.

01:17:37.000 But from the outside, it looks sweet.

01:17:39.000 So the $10,000 that you always put in was always cosmetic on the outside.

01:17:42.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:17:43.000 Because Brandon Green doesn't have to live in that.

01:17:46.000 He doesn't care what the inside looks like.

01:17:47.000 Roof, windows.

01:17:48.000 What was in particular?

01:17:51.000 Honestly, most of it was paint and caulk.

01:17:53.000 Wow.

01:17:53.000 Because from 45 feet away, the appraiser's not going to get out of the house and walk up to somebody's house.

01:17:59.000 He's getting paid $200, $300 for a drive-by appraisal.

01:18:03.000 He's going to drive by and go, that thing said it sold for $210.

01:18:06.000 That one sold for $205.

01:18:08.000 That one sold for $245.

01:18:09.000 They all look good to me.

01:18:11.000 And unbeknownst to them, you bought them all.

01:18:12.000 Yeah, I own them all.

01:18:15.000 So, we got James, we got all these names.

01:18:17.000 Yo, okay.

01:18:18.000 No, this is great.

01:18:19.000 Okay.

01:18:19.000 But see, he knows the procedure of each person working to kind of like maneuver.

01:18:24.000 What they're going to do.

01:18:24.000 So he's obviously like fixing the cosmetics.

01:18:26.000 That's what they're looking at.

01:18:27.000 I'm sorry.

01:18:28.000 That's crazy.

01:18:29.000 No, I was going to say... 1.00

01:18:30.000 Fucking a genius. 1.00

01:18:30.000 Once they start calling... 1.00

01:18:34.000 Once the banks start calling, I would print out a 12-car pileup on I-4, where somebody was life-flighted to Tampa General Hospital.

01:18:48.000 And I would just insert my guy's name in there.

01:18:50.000 Like, Brandon Green was in an accident, and he was life-flighted to Tampa General Hospital.

01:18:55.000 I would print that article out.

01:18:58.000 Add my guy's name into it, print it out on newsprint, cut it up, make copies on a copy machine.

01:19:04.000 Then I would write a letter from Brandon Green's sister and say my brother was in a tragic accident.

01:19:10.000 That's why he hasn't been making the mortgage payments, obviously.

01:19:13.000 He's currently in a coma.

01:19:15.000 And the doctors say even if he wakes up, he'll never work again. 0.99

01:19:18.000 Damn. 0.99

01:19:18.000 And so you send that to all of the collection agents. 0.99

01:19:21.000 And they basically stop coming around.

01:19:22.000 They just start the foreclosure process.

01:19:24.000 Okay.

01:19:25.000 So that's how you kept from getting annoyed.

01:19:26.000 Well, I felt like I needed to give them something.

01:19:29.000 Like, they need a reason, right?

01:19:31.000 Because if you called his job, he doesn't work there anymore.

01:19:35.000 He doesn't work there anymore.

01:19:36.000 His cell numbers are shut off.

01:19:39.000 He's not responding.

01:19:40.000 We couldn't serve him.

01:19:42.000 What's happening?

01:19:43.000 Here's the reason.

01:19:44.000 And then they go, oh, that makes sense.

01:19:46.000 That's why if those Italian guys had paid at least four or five months and give a reason- They don't even have to give a reason. 0.65

01:19:51.000 They could have just paid four or five months and they would have probably been 10 times better off than- Not paying at all.

01:19:56.000 Right.

01:19:57.000 Now, keep in mind, now it's 12 months.

01:19:59.000 It used to be a first payment default required an immediate investigation.

01:20:03.000 Now, if you don't pay the first 12 months, they're going to investigate for fraud now. 0.99

01:20:08.000 But that's, once again, that's- After the housing market crashed and shit. 0.96

01:20:12.000 Okay, so you did this where you were doing this and then, okay, so you were saying... 0.98

01:20:17.000 So he sold the company.

01:20:18.000 Yeah, well, we're past that now.

01:20:20.000 Yeah, and then he bought this company doing renovations and flips.

01:20:24.000 Yeah, right.

01:20:24.000 Yeah, and then so the banks would come and foreclose the homes after you had gotten them all to 200K or whatever, and then you'd run it up on each person and then you'd send them a letter, hey, the person got sick or he's in a coma now, et cetera, and then the banks would be like, oh, okay, that makes sense, and they'd take property to the home and they'd try to sell them.

01:20:40.000 They put them back on the market, and then every three months, they just keep reducing the sales price by like 20 or 30%.

01:20:46.000 Yeah, because they couldn't understand why the hell they can't sell.

01:20:47.000 Right.

01:20:48.000 They don't understand it, but it doesn't matter.

01:20:49.000 Like, they basically, they lent too much, it went bad, that happens, and then they'd eventually sell it for 70, 80,000, because investors- Close to what you bought it for.

01:20:57.000 Originally.

01:20:58.000 But more because I raised up the area because other investors are coming in and they're buying up everything because they're like, I'm buying this house, it's going for $70,000.

01:21:05.000 I can get a price for $200,000.

01:21:07.000 There's sales everywhere.

01:21:08.000 Not realizing they go in, buy it, renovate it, and you're probably not going to sell it for $200,000.

01:21:13.000 But I bought so many.

01:21:15.000 I borrowed...

01:21:17.000 You inadvertently increased the comparables.

01:21:19.000 Oh, yeah.

01:21:19.000 That's what you did.

01:21:19.000 Yeah, they were everywhere.

01:21:21.000 That is scary, though.

01:21:22.000 That's crazy.

01:21:22.000 You self-inflated it yourself.

01:21:24.000 Yeah, you literally self-increased the value.

01:21:26.000 I'm an investor.

01:21:26.000 Oh, this is great.

01:21:27.000 I can try this and make a profit. 0.98

01:21:29.000 I'm screwing. 0.97

01:21:30.000 That's China, by the way. 0.99

01:21:31.000 That's what happened in China.

01:21:32.000 That's what happened in China.

01:21:33.000 In 2003, Forbes magazine came out with an article, and they said that the zip code in Ybor City was one of the top 20 fastest-growing zip codes in the nation.

01:21:42.000 Oh, and that was because of Ybor City?

01:21:43.000 I'm assuming...

01:21:44.000 It's not that big.

01:21:45.000 It's not that big of an area.

01:21:47.000 Bank of Ybor.

01:21:48.000 So anyway, what happened is...

01:21:51.000 So how long did you do this for before...

01:21:54.000 I'm going to say 18 months, borrowed $11.5 million.

01:21:58.000 Okay. 0.99

01:21:59.000 Damn. 1.00

01:21:59.000 My mortgage company... 1.00

01:22:00.000 Keep in mind, when I first got in trouble...

01:22:02.000 Well, when the FBI came in and they grabbed my mortgage company, they ended up saying that the mortgage company, just from all the W-2s, pay stubs, they said that was about $40 million.

01:22:11.000 Okay.

01:22:12.000 So they tried to hit me for that when I got caught.

01:22:16.000 What ended up happening was, and keep in mind, we got caught periodically.

01:22:20.000 We'd get caught, some company would find out, this guy doesn't even exist.

01:22:24.000 I had a buddy named Rudy, who we pulled out, I forget, $80,000, I don't know what it was, but it's like, hey, I'm going to take this much, we're going to put this much in the company, because he was part of the development company, and Rudy, here's 20 grand, make sure you make the payments, here's the coupon that they gave us at closing, make sure you make payments for the next three payments, okay, no problem.

01:22:45.000 And then like a month and a half later, I get a phone call from an account executive with the mortgage company saying, hey man, they're investigating this mortgage.

01:22:52.000 Why?

01:22:53.000 The borrower never made a payment.

01:22:55.000 What?

01:22:56.000 And then I'd go to Rudy and go, what happened with the bank?

01:22:59.000 He'd go, oh, is that due? 1.00

01:23:01.000 You fucking idiot. 1.00

01:23:02.000 Like, now they're already investigating, so I would end up, I ended up, in that instance, I actually ended up calling the bank as the person, right? 1.00

01:23:11.000 And that wasn't, that guy's name wasn't even, like, a color name.

01:23:14.000 It was, I think it was Alan, I want to say, like, Alan Duncan or Joel, I forget.

01:23:19.000 Yeah.

01:23:21.000 I called up there and I said, hey, this is Alan Duncan.

01:23:23.000 And they were like, you know, oh, well, first I called and they were like, I asked for like the bank.

01:23:28.000 It was a small bank.

01:23:29.000 It was called South Star Bank and it was in Georgia.

01:23:32.000 And I tried to call them up and they were in a meeting.

01:23:35.000 And I said, no, no.

01:23:35.000 I said, I need to talk to, you know, the, I forget, the attorney or whoever had been calling the account executive.

01:23:40.000 And I said, I need to talk to that guy.

01:23:42.000 And I said, my name is Alan.

01:23:43.000 Trust me, go interrupt him.

01:23:45.000 They want to talk to me.

01:23:46.000 And sure enough, they get on the phone and I tell them, look, they're like, look, you don't even exist, bro.

01:23:52.000 We figured out this.

01:23:53.000 We figured out this.

01:23:54.000 We're going to call the FBI. We're going to this.

01:23:55.000 They told you this.

01:23:56.000 Oh, they told me all this.

01:23:57.000 And it's funny because their head of their fraud department was a former FBI agent.

01:24:02.000 And he's like, yes, you're going to end up in a box, bro.

01:24:04.000 You're going to end up going to prison for this.

01:24:06.000 He's going on and on.

01:24:08.000 And I kept saying, well, Why don't I just give you the money back?

01:24:12.000 They're like, oh, we'll get the money back when we foreclose on the property.

01:24:14.000 And I was like, oh, okay, I understand.

01:24:17.000 I said, you think that your $180,000 loan is attached to a $220,000 piece of property?

01:24:23.000 And he's like, they're like, yeah.

01:24:24.000 And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

01:24:25.000 That property is maybe worth 50 grand.

01:24:28.000 You're about to lose $100,000 easily.

01:24:31.000 What are you talking about?

01:24:31.000 We have an appraisal.

01:24:32.000 I said, yeah, pull out the appraisal.

01:24:34.000 And they pull it out and say, listen, this property is in the name of a guy named, you know, Lee Black.

01:24:38.000 This one's in the name of a guy. 1.00

01:24:39.000 Oh, shit. 0.99

01:24:40.000 And so I just, I have to lay it out. 1.00

01:24:41.000 They're calling the FBI. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:24:43.000 So I lay it out completely for them.

01:24:45.000 Uh-huh.

01:24:45.000 And then I said, now you can call the FBI or you can get your money back, but you can't do both.

01:24:50.000 Yeah.

01:24:51.000 And they're like—I'm like, you're going to foreclose on this thing.

01:24:53.000 You're going to lose over $100,000.

01:24:54.000 And so they're like, hold on a second.

01:24:57.000 They put me on hold.

01:24:58.000 They come back, and they go, do you still have the money?

01:25:00.000 And I was like, yeah, I got the money.

01:25:01.000 They were like, look, just give us the money back, and we're good.

01:25:07.000 We'll foreclose.

01:25:09.000 Send us this much money back.

01:25:10.000 We'll take the property back or whatever the— We agreed on it.

01:25:15.000 Well, no, I got rid of the mortgage.

01:25:16.000 I kept the property.

01:25:17.000 So I go and I go to the bank.

01:25:20.000 It's funny because they kept saying, well, we'll track you down.

01:25:22.000 We'll get the money.

01:25:23.000 And I was like, you're not going to track me down.

01:25:24.000 That money went into different accounts, all in fake identities.

01:25:27.000 It's all been removed.

01:25:28.000 You're never seeing any money.

01:25:29.000 But actually, I remember thinking a big part of that money went directly into my account.

01:25:32.000 Yeah.

01:25:33.000 And I'm just bluffing.

01:25:34.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:25:35.000 And they were like, just, okay, give us the money back.

01:25:36.000 We're not going to contact the FBI. And they certainly could have, but they never did.

01:25:39.000 Yeah.

01:25:39.000 And that happens a few times.

01:25:41.000 Yeah.

01:25:41.000 So you made a deal with them.

01:25:42.000 Yeah.

01:25:43.000 That's a headache on their end.

01:25:45.000 Yeah.

01:25:45.000 First of all, nobody wants to call the FBI. They don't want the FBI coming in, looking at their files, looking at like, you don't know how far this goes.

01:25:53.000 Are there other files?

01:25:54.000 They don't want to have to turn around and tell their investors, listen, We've actually just made 45 loans to people that don't exist.

01:26:01.000 They don't know where this goes.

01:26:02.000 So we just want that money back.

01:26:04.000 Everything else seems to be performing.

01:26:05.000 We're just trying to hold it together.

01:26:07.000 So we go and we get the cashier's check and we send them a cashier's check and I end up taking that property.

01:26:13.000 I refinance it again or I think we sold it to somebody or refinance it.

01:26:15.000 We get some money back.

01:26:17.000 So you pay the lenders back the full amount of the house?

01:26:20.000 Yeah.

01:26:20.000 Well, the full amount of their mortgage.

01:26:22.000 Their mortgage, okay.

01:26:23.000 So I mean, and that happened Several times.

01:26:27.000 Okay.

01:26:27.000 That happened one time I got called where I had a guy...

01:26:31.000 How close are...

01:26:34.000 What are we doing?

01:26:36.000 No, you go, bro.

01:26:37.000 Go ahead.

01:26:37.000 You want to take a quick break?

01:26:38.000 No, I don't want to talk for six...

01:26:39.000 No, you said the story.

01:26:40.000 You said the story.

01:26:41.000 Word from our sponsor?

01:26:42.000 Yeah, we can do a quick word from our sponsor.

01:26:44.000 Yeah, no, we're good, bro, because we're going to do our new show around in an hour, hour and a half.

01:26:47.000 Yeah, we got time.

01:26:48.000 We got time, bro.

01:26:48.000 We got time.

01:26:49.000 And I think this is important for people, but real quick...

01:26:52.000 No?

01:26:53.000 Okay, we'll keep going with the story.

01:26:54.000 We'll do that after.

01:26:55.000 So go ahead.

01:26:56.000 I'll tell you real quick. 0.99

01:26:56.000 One time, and this is a scumbag move, okay? 0.99

01:27:00.000 So I know it's a scumbag move. 0.99

01:27:01.000 Okay, okay. 0.99

01:27:02.000 He makes it.

01:27:04.000 So one time I get called by a broker and she's like, listen.

01:27:09.000 So what I'd been doing was just going in and getting the files and signing them myself.

01:27:13.000 Okay.

01:27:14.000 So if the borrower, if Lee Black needs to show up, he doesn't even show up.

01:27:17.000 I just go in and say, hey, I'm going to bring Lee Black the file.

01:27:22.000 And so the title, the closer, right?

01:27:25.000 Is he a closer attorney or attorney?

01:27:31.000 Yeah, of course.

01:27:49.000 They're making money.

01:27:50.000 They know me.

01:27:51.000 Matt, just do me a favor.

01:27:52.000 Give me a copy of his driver's license.

01:27:54.000 No problem.

01:27:55.000 I got you.

01:27:56.000 So I go.

01:27:56.000 I make a copy of the driver's license.

01:27:58.000 You know, the driver's license.

01:28:00.000 And then I put it in there.

01:28:01.000 I sign all the documents.

01:28:02.000 I come back.

01:28:03.000 They notarize them.

01:28:03.000 They cut me the checks.

01:28:04.000 I leave.

01:28:05.000 Well, at one point, we'd done like two or three loans with this in the name of James Redd.

01:28:11.000 And so, you know, and somebody, I told you, a bunch of, everybody knew what I was doing.

01:28:16.000 Not everybody, but there's 15, 20 people that either are, there's probably 10 or 12 people that are directly involved.

01:28:23.000 And a few other people that kind of know what's going on, or they're figuring it out.

01:28:27.000 Yeah.

01:28:28.000 Somebody had contacted the owner.

01:28:31.000 Her name was Mary.

01:28:32.000 Contacted Mary and told her, this guy doesn't exist.

01:28:37.000 James Redd doesn't exist.

01:28:38.000 And you've already closed a couple loans with him.

01:28:40.000 So she calls the mortgage broker who's doing the loan and says, this guy has to show up or we're not closing the loan.

01:28:50.000 So she calls me and says, Matt, Mary said James Wright has to show up.

01:28:55.000 And I went, okay.

01:28:56.000 I said, well, then he'll have to show up.

01:28:59.000 And she's like, you know, how's that going to happen?

01:29:01.000 And I was like, well, I'm going to work on it.

01:29:03.000 We'll see.

01:29:03.000 So I end up calling a guy named, I didn't mention this earlier.

01:29:07.000 When I make these fake IDs, I would, you know, to close the loans in, I would always pick somebody that I knew that had been arrested.

01:29:17.000 Okay.

01:29:18.000 Because I thought, if I ever need to get somebody, what if I do need somebody to show up?

01:29:23.000 I need to be able to go to that.

01:29:24.000 So sometimes it's somebody who's renting from me.

01:29:26.000 Sometimes it's a broker.

01:29:28.000 Sometimes it...

01:29:29.000 Well, in this case, it was a guy named Eric Tamargo. 0.97

01:29:33.000 And I'm going to say Eric Tamargo because I talked to Eric, and Eric's a great guy, and he's heard me say this story, and he admits it's fucked up. 0.94

01:29:43.000 So what ends up happening is... 0.84

01:29:47.000 Eric was a guy who's cleaning yards.

01:29:50.000 Like, he's trimming trees for me on these properties.

01:29:53.000 He's painting houses.

01:29:54.000 He's doing all kinds of stuff.

01:29:56.000 And so I call him and I say, hey man, can you come in the office?

01:29:58.000 He goes, sure, no problem.

01:29:59.000 I go, what's up?

01:29:59.000 And I said, hey, listen.

01:30:00.000 I said, you know all these houses that we're doing?

01:30:02.000 I said, yeah.

01:30:02.000 I said, let me explain what I'm doing.

01:30:04.000 And I explain it to him. 1.00

01:30:05.000 And he's like, holy shit. 1.00

01:30:06.000 He's like, that's fucking amazing. 1.00

01:30:08.000 I'm right. 0.98

01:30:09.000 I said, here's the problem.

01:30:10.000 I've been signing, and I explained that Mary wants James Red to show up. 1.00

01:30:14.000 And he goes, fuck. 0.99

01:30:17.000 He's like, what are you going to do? 1.00

01:30:18.000 And I went, um...

01:30:20.000 Well, you're James.

01:30:20.000 I said, I was thinking you would go in and sign.

01:30:23.000 He goes, what are you talking about?

01:30:25.000 He's like, that's nuts.

01:30:27.000 He goes, well, first of all, he said, first of all, he said, you said you've been using, like, mug shots of people.

01:30:33.000 He said, she's going to know it's not me.

01:30:35.000 She's got a copy of the guy's driver's license.

01:30:38.000 I went, that's the thing.

01:30:40.000 I said, I used your mugshot from when you beat up your wife about five years ago, your domestic violence one.

01:30:47.000 And he goes, and listen, he jumps up. 1.00

01:30:48.000 He's like, you motherfucker. 1.00

01:30:50.000 Eric would beat the brakes off me. 1.00

01:30:52.000 I mean, like a small child.

01:30:55.000 Like he boxes, he's, you know...

01:30:58.000 And he'd already done like three years in prison.

01:31:00.000 So he jumps up and I'm like, whoa, wait a minute, Eric. 0.62

01:31:03.000 I said, listen, the only reason I used your name was because I knew if it came to this, you were the only person or only reason I used your photo was I knew if it came to this, you were the only person that I knew that had the balls, would have the balls to pull this off. 0.79

01:31:17.000 Nice. 0.82

01:31:18.000 That's a good way to say it.

01:31:20.000 He looked at me and said, you're right.

01:31:22.000 Yeah.

01:31:22.000 And I just thought, you can't believe in this.

01:31:26.000 So I take his driver's license.

01:31:28.000 Well, first he goes, he said, listen.

01:31:30.000 He said, I'm not doing this for nothing.

01:31:31.000 I get in a lot of trouble.

01:31:33.000 I said, no, you could.

01:31:34.000 You're right.

01:31:35.000 I said, you're making a lot of money on that.

01:31:37.000 I said, well, a lot of that money is going back in the property.

01:31:39.000 Yeah, but still, you're doing good.

01:31:40.000 I said, yeah.

01:31:41.000 He said, um...

01:31:42.000 I said, what do you want, bro?

01:31:44.000 And I remember thinking, if he asked for more than like 10 or 15 grand, I'm just going to change title companies and go do it myself.

01:31:49.000 Yeah.

01:31:49.000 Like, I've never shown up to do any of these.

01:31:51.000 And he sat there and he goes...

01:31:53.000 Give me 10K, bro.

01:31:54.000 He goes, I want $500.

01:31:56.000 What?

01:31:58.000 And I literally went...

01:32:01.000 Are you serious?

01:32:02.000 $500?

01:32:03.000 I go, it's 30 minutes, 20 minutes work.

01:32:06.000 It's three minutes.

01:32:07.000 You have to sign some documents.

01:32:08.000 500 bucks?

01:32:09.000 And he goes, hey, bro, I could get in a lot of trouble.

01:32:11.000 And I was like, you don't have anybody else?

01:32:14.000 I said, yeah, all right, you know what?

01:32:15.000 That's fine, but you got to sign before I pay you.

01:32:17.000 And he's like, no, no, I know you're good for it.

01:32:19.000 I got you, I got you.

01:32:21.000 So I take his driver's license.

01:32:23.000 I sand off the stuff.

01:32:24.000 I make the fake ID. We go to the title company.

01:32:27.000 It was a few days later.

01:32:28.000 We go to the title company.

01:32:29.000 We walk in.

01:32:30.000 Mary comes walking out in the lobby and looks at me. 0.99

01:32:32.000 She goes, Mr.

01:32:33.000 Cox, I don't know what you're doing here.

01:32:34.000 She goes, I told Kelly, the broker, if James Redd doesn't show up, I'm not doing the loan.

01:32:40.000 Eric stands up on cue and says, I'm James Redd.

01:32:44.000 And she goes, um, oh, um, hold on a second.

01:32:49.000 Runs in the back, grabs the file, comes out, opens it up with a copy of the old driver's license, looks at it and goes...

01:32:57.000 I'm so sorry, Mr.

01:32:58.000 Redd.

01:32:59.000 I'll go ahead.

01:33:00.000 I have the closing statement.

01:33:01.000 I'll get the disclosures.

01:33:03.000 Do you want something to drink?

01:33:05.000 Sits him down.

01:33:06.000 He signs.

01:33:07.000 But when he's signing, keep in mind, it's not like one big check is coming out for like $90,000 or $110,000, right?

01:33:17.000 It's a check.

01:33:18.000 $30,000 is going to...

01:33:21.000 A contractor.

01:33:22.000 10,000's here.

01:33:23.000 40,000's going to pay off a second mortgage that doesn't exist.

01:33:26.000 They're going all over the place.

01:33:28.000 And so he sees these checks.

01:33:30.000 He's like, who do I send the $45,000 for?

01:33:32.000 I said, oh, I'll give that to the guy.

01:33:34.000 I got it.

01:33:35.000 What about the 10,000?

01:33:36.000 Oh, I got that, Mary.

01:33:37.000 I'll take it.

01:33:37.000 I got all these.

01:33:38.000 I'll put these in.

01:33:39.000 And he's like... 1.00

01:33:40.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

01:33:42.000 Motherfucker. 1.00

01:33:42.000 So... 1.00

01:33:43.000 He signs everything.

01:33:44.000 We go out there.

01:33:45.000 I cut him.

01:33:46.000 I gave him 500 bucks.

01:33:47.000 We go out and get in the car.

01:33:48.000 Here's 500 bucks.

01:33:49.000 He's like, yeah, bro.

01:33:50.000 He's like, that was a lot of money.

01:33:51.000 You guys made a lot of money.

01:33:52.000 I need more, bro.

01:33:53.000 I'm like, hey, man.

01:33:54.000 A lot of it goes right back into the property.

01:33:55.000 I got to make the payments.

01:33:56.000 You know the renovations we're doing?

01:33:57.000 You're not cheap, Eric.

01:33:58.000 You charged me a ton of money.

01:34:00.000 And he's like, yeah, still though, bro.

01:34:02.000 He's like, well, okay.

01:34:03.000 That's cool.

01:34:03.000 Whatever.

01:34:04.000 So a week later, we have another closing with Mary.

01:34:07.000 With James Redd.

01:34:08.000 I call up Eric.

01:34:09.000 Eric, I get another closing.

01:34:10.000 He goes, oh, man.

01:34:12.000 He goes...

01:34:13.000 I mean, I'll do it, bro, but I ain't doing it for 500 bucks. 1.00

01:34:16.000 I'll tell you right now, and I went, fuck. 0.99

01:34:18.000 And I'm thinking, if he asks for fucking more than 10 or 15, I'm just gonna do it myself. 0.99

01:34:22.000 And I go, what do you want, Eric? 0.98

01:34:24.000 And he goes...

01:34:25.000 A thousand?

01:34:26.000 I want a thousand dollars.

01:34:27.000 Bro!

01:34:28.000 I knew it! 0.96

01:34:29.000 What the heck? 0.82

01:34:31.000 Listen, I mean... 0.93

01:34:34.000 Listen, you wanna know the worst thing about this?

01:34:40.000 So, at some point, I take off on the run for like three years, right?

01:34:44.000 They go to Eric.

01:34:48.000 And Eric just tells him, this is what I did.

01:34:50.000 He goes to jail for three years.

01:34:51.000 For $1,500.

01:34:53.000 For $1,500?

01:34:54.000 Oh, my God.

01:34:55.000 Wow.

01:34:56.000 I see you judging me over there, Mo.

01:34:58.000 I see you judging me.

01:35:00.000 I don't need that.

01:35:02.000 It's not my fault.

01:35:03.000 Listen, he was on drugs.

01:35:05.000 Probably saved his life.

01:35:06.000 I feel like I probably saved his life.

01:35:08.000 And look, I talked to the guy.

01:35:10.000 He's cool.

01:35:10.000 We've hung out.

01:35:12.000 He's alright. 0.99

01:35:13.000 That's funny shit, man. 0.99

01:35:15.000 I mean, 500 bucks? 1.00

01:35:17.000 No, come on, bro.

01:35:18.000 That's like...

01:35:18.000 What the time is that?

01:35:20.000 Is he Mexican?

01:35:22.000 No, Eric Machicardi.

01:35:24.000 Machicardi?

01:35:24.000 Eric Machicardi, I think, is what his name is.

01:35:26.000 Oh.

01:35:27.000 Yeah.

01:35:28.000 No, he's a white guy.

01:35:30.000 What? 0.55

01:35:31.000 No, white guy.

01:35:32.000 White guy.

01:35:32.000 Oh, white guy.

01:35:33.000 Okay. 1.00

01:35:34.000 Damn, that's crazy. 1.00

01:35:35.000 Just not the smartest white guy. 1.00

01:35:36.000 Yeah. 0.95

01:35:37.000 A lot of people think white guy is smart.

01:35:38.000 So he said I need a thousand.

01:35:40.000 So a thousand bucks for the second one is what he got.

01:35:43.000 Yeah, he thought, I'm going to double it.

01:35:44.000 That's funny.

01:35:45.000 Yo, would you go to jail for a thousand bucks?

01:35:49.000 Keep in mind, too, you have to understand, I've been doing this over a year.

01:35:54.000 So in his mind, this is foolproof.

01:35:58.000 And honestly, listen, it was foolproof up until I started, you know...

01:36:06.000 I had a friend, a childhood friend.

01:36:08.000 His name is Travis.

01:36:09.000 We've known each other since, like, we both went to, you know, the short bus school together, you know?

01:36:14.000 And so he comes to me at one point, and he's like, listen, I'm, you know, I'm fucking, I'm broke, you know? 0.93

01:36:23.000 He's got a daughter. 0.96

01:36:24.000 He's got this adorable little daughter.

01:36:27.000 You know, I need, you know, I'm I need to make some money.

01:36:31.000 Look, I got a couple cars.

01:36:33.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:36:34.000 We're at the point now where we've got underwriters that we're basically...

01:36:37.000 I have an underwriter that I bought a car for, a Mercedes compression. 0.99

01:36:41.000 Oh, shit. 0.99

01:36:41.000 You got underwriters now? 0.99

01:36:43.000 Oh, yeah.

01:36:43.000 Listen, what do they call it?

01:36:44.000 It was a compressor.

01:36:45.000 It was like a two-door.

01:36:46.000 It was a little Mercedes.

01:36:49.000 This is...

01:36:49.000 They don't even make them anymore.

01:36:50.000 You don't know.

01:36:51.000 This is kind of old.

01:36:52.000 Yeah, this is like a two-seater Mercedes.

01:36:54.000 It's like 2001.

01:36:55.000 Yeah.

01:36:55.000 Probably like a SL. Yeah.

01:36:57.000 Yeah, it was like a little tiny one, like you hit the button and it pulls the roof back. 0.81

01:37:00.000 It was only a two-seater, but I mean, I buy this for a fucking underwriter because he's working for this company that is just, he can get him to go. 0.53

01:37:07.000 First of all, he would come to us first and review our files. 0.87

01:37:11.000 And he'd be like, you got to change this, change this.

01:37:13.000 So he told you exactly what to do.

01:37:14.000 One of these?

01:37:16.000 Yes, that's exactly it.

01:37:18.000 Only listen, it was hideous. 0.99

01:37:19.000 He was a gay guy and he wanted red interior. 0.98

01:37:22.000 So it had red interior. 0.99

01:37:24.000 It was hideous.

01:37:25.000 He loved it.

01:37:26.000 He loved it.

01:37:27.000 And just so the audience knows, guys, whenever you close a deal, a bunch of people get paid out.

01:37:31.000 When the deal's closed, a bunch of people make a bunch of money, which is why they were incentivized to do this.

01:37:35.000 Because you guys are probably wondering, well, why are they doing all this fraud and stuff like that?

01:37:37.000 It's because when the loan closes and the money goes out and disbursed, it goes to all the different people that were involved in the deal.

01:37:44.000 Yeah, I'm not walking away with like, you know, like they're saying, you know, oh, you made, you know, 11 and a half million in this one little scam, right?

01:37:50.000 Like, I didn't get 11 and a half million.

01:37:52.000 There's a chunk of that that went to pay for the properties.

01:37:54.000 There's a chunk that went to, we were building brand new houses.

01:37:58.000 We're building this.

01:37:59.000 Rudy's got to get some money.

01:38:00.000 Dave's got to get some money.

01:38:01.000 Everyone gets paid off of it.

01:38:03.000 Right.

01:38:03.000 Even Eric.

01:38:04.000 Eric needs a little something.

01:38:07.000 So anyway, eventually, a buddy of mine, Travis...

01:38:12.000 So you go back and you sign Eric for this $1,000.

01:38:14.000 That's, I think, where the story left off.

01:38:15.000 Yeah, that's done.

01:38:17.000 What I'm saying is, ultimately, the way it basically kind of, that comes down, is at this point, I borrow like $11.5 million.

01:38:27.000 How many deals do you think you did in this time span with this development company that you had?

01:38:31.000 It wasn't...

01:38:31.000 So the FBI... And by the way, this figure's not correct.

01:38:35.000 They said 109 houses.

01:38:36.000 But I think they took all the houses...

01:38:38.000 We didn't do 109 houses because each house was getting almost $150,000 to $200,000 mortgage on it.

01:38:43.000 So if you add that up, then it's a massive amount of money.

01:38:47.000 So it wasn't that.

01:38:48.000 But there were lots of vacant...

01:38:50.000 We're also doing other things.

01:38:51.000 We're buying vacant lots.

01:38:53.000 We're building brand new houses.

01:38:54.000 We've got a development company.

01:38:56.000 We're trying to kind of...

01:38:57.000 Take this money and parlay it into a legitimate development company.

01:39:01.000 And look, let's face it.

01:39:03.000 I'm not flashy, right?

01:39:05.000 But I am driving an Audi.

01:39:07.000 We've got an Audi.

01:39:08.000 We've got a Mercedes.

01:39:09.000 We've got cars.

01:39:11.000 I'm traveling.

01:39:12.000 You've got underwriters under you, which is crazy that you had underwriters.

01:39:14.000 And I'm dating a chick that, you know, I'm dating a few women that I have no reason to date. 1.00

01:39:22.000 Like, it was the money.

01:39:24.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:39:24.000 Like, these are, like, you know, like, I'm dating, I went on a few dates with a, was it a Buccaneers cheerleader, like, you know.

01:39:31.000 Yeah.

01:39:33.000 I know.

01:39:34.000 I know you look at me and you think, cool guy.

01:39:36.000 You know, you think, oh, I can see.

01:39:38.000 No, no, I think it might have been the money.

01:39:40.000 So, but yeah, so I'm dating these chicks. 1.00

01:39:43.000 And so this one chick I'm dating is like, hey, I want to do something.

01:39:47.000 Like, I want to do what you're doing.

01:39:47.000 She knows what I'm doing, but I don't need your help.

01:39:50.000 Well, can I get in?

01:39:51.000 Can I help?

01:39:51.000 For what?

01:39:52.000 Like, I've got a well-oiled machine at this point.

01:39:56.000 Like, I got Rudy's finding properties, we got title companies, we've got appraisers, we've got, like, I got all the, I'm making these people myself.

01:40:04.000 You literally have from step A all the way to step Z to get this entire, to get these deals closed.

01:40:08.000 Right, I don't need you.

01:40:09.000 Yeah.

01:40:10.000 So, I said, you know, only thing we could do is, I said, I've been thinking about this.

01:40:14.000 I said, like, I could get you a fake ID. You could go, like, rent a property.

01:40:20.000 And we could satisfy the loan on the property, transfer the title into your name, and then refinance that property three or four times right away.

01:40:29.000 So we could borrow maybe a million dollars on it.

01:40:32.000 Then we'll make the payments on it for a few months and we'll continue to pull out the money and then we'll just leave.

01:40:37.000 Like, well, once we get all the money out of the banks, we'll take off.

01:40:39.000 And she's like...

01:40:41.000 How much would I make?

01:40:41.000 I'm like, like half a million dollars.

01:40:42.000 And she's like, holy shit. 1.00

01:40:44.000 And I'm like, yeah, but you have to understand, people are going to see your face. 0.99

01:40:46.000 You know, I explained the whole thing to her.

01:40:47.000 She's like, I don't care.

01:40:48.000 That's fine.

01:40:49.000 Okay.

01:40:50.000 So, and she knew I was on federal probation, right?

01:40:52.000 So she's like, you know, like you, you've done fraud before.

01:40:55.000 You didn't go to prison.

01:40:56.000 You know, now she would have gone to prison for this. 1.00

01:40:58.000 But, so we go and we, I get her a fake ID. We go, we...

01:41:02.000 We rent a piece of property.

01:41:04.000 We transfer the deed out of the property, out of the owner's name into her name.

01:41:08.000 So you bought it and then you rented it out?

01:41:10.000 No, no.

01:41:10.000 We just rented it.

01:41:11.000 So we just rent the property.

01:41:12.000 Rent to own?

01:41:13.000 No, no.

01:41:14.000 I'm renting your house.

01:41:15.000 I go downtown.

01:41:16.000 I find your deed.

01:41:17.000 I create a new deed.

01:41:19.000 And I, in her name, and I record the new deed saying she bought it from you. 0.99

01:41:23.000 Oh, shit! 1.00

01:41:25.000 So I just stole your house. 1.00

01:41:26.000 That was a lot, bro.

01:41:28.000 That was a lot.

01:41:30.000 But keep in mind, you still have a mortgage on it for like $200,000.

01:41:33.000 So I create a satisfaction of mortgage from your bank and record that.

01:41:37.000 And now in public records, it looks like you have no mortgage on the house.

01:41:40.000 So she now owns a $200,000 house in her name and has no mortgage on it. 0.94

01:41:45.000 Oh.

01:41:45.000 Right.

01:41:46.000 So then we refinance it like three different times with three different lenders for not much.

01:41:52.000 Maybe the loans are small.

01:41:53.000 They're like $110,000, $120,000.

01:41:55.000 So what we're going to do is do five of them, get like half a million, and then satisfy those and then do it again.

01:42:02.000 So the problem is the name that we got for her was Rosita Perez.

01:42:08.000 And this is a chick with blondish brown hair and green eyes. 0.99

01:42:13.000 Rosita Perez is clearly Hispanic.

01:42:17.000 So I have her change her hair. 1.00

01:42:19.000 She gets her hair done black and curly. 0.99

01:42:23.000 And gets the photo for the ID, and I make the ID. But before she goes to the first closing, she actually changes her hair back, brown, you know, whatever.

01:42:30.000 And I'm like, what are you doing?

01:42:32.000 Why would you do that?

01:42:32.000 And her name is Allison.

01:42:34.000 And she's like, because it wasn't me.

01:42:36.000 I'm like, this is exactly it, the point.

01:42:37.000 It wasn't you.

01:42:38.000 And she's like...

01:42:40.000 And this is true.

01:42:41.000 She goes, the picture's me, Matt, on the ID. She goes, my hair doesn't even...

01:42:45.000 She goes, it's me.

01:42:46.000 And I went...

01:42:47.000 Okay, I get it.

01:42:48.000 Like, that's fine.

01:42:48.000 You're right.

01:42:49.000 That's fine.

01:42:49.000 So I'm okay.

01:42:50.000 So we close the first loan, whatever, $110,000, let's say.

01:42:56.000 So you rent the house just to establish the residency, I guess.

01:42:59.000 Yeah, just to be able to have control of the property.

01:43:01.000 Yeah.

01:43:02.000 And I've done it before where the person lived in the house.

01:43:06.000 Wow.

01:43:07.000 So then she goes to the second closing, signs the documents, but the title agent looks at the ID and goes, this doesn't look like you.

01:43:19.000 And she's like, what?

01:43:20.000 It doesn't look like you.

01:43:21.000 But it was her.

01:43:23.000 And she's like, yeah.

01:43:24.000 She goes, you don't look like a Perez. 1.00

01:43:26.000 And she says, well, my father was a Perez. 0.96

01:43:31.000 She's like, what?

01:43:32.000 And she's like, you know...

01:43:36.000 I'm not going to give you the check.

01:43:37.000 She's like, what I'm going to do is let me make a few phone calls and then I'll mail it to you or I'll even drive it out to you.

01:43:42.000 And she's like, okay.

01:43:44.000 She makes a couple copies of the ID, gives it to her.

01:43:47.000 Allison comes out, gets in the car.

01:43:48.000 She's like, oh my God, this is what happened.

01:43:50.000 And I'm like, oh, we're done.

01:43:52.000 We're leaving.

01:43:52.000 We're done.

01:43:53.000 We drive off.

01:43:54.000 She's like, well, what about this check for the $110,000?

01:43:57.000 And I'm like, oh, that's done.

01:43:58.000 That's over.

01:43:59.000 I'm like, no, we're not cashing that.

01:44:01.000 I'm like, she's going to figure this is going to unravel very quickly, you know?

01:44:05.000 So she still cut her a check even though she didn't? 0.74

01:44:07.000 No, no.

01:44:07.000 She closed one loan already with another title company.

01:44:10.000 Okay.

01:44:10.000 So she got that check.

01:44:11.000 It was fine.

01:44:11.000 Okay.

01:44:11.000 But the next title company, the chick was like, whoa, this doesn't look right.

01:44:14.000 Okay.

01:44:15.000 So she's saying, let's cash the check. 1.00

01:44:17.000 I'm like, yeah, fuck no. 0.99

01:44:17.000 And we're not cashing. 0.99

01:44:18.000 We're depositing it, pulling money out, regardless.

01:44:18.000 And I went, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

01:44:21.000 And she's like, well, let's go open a bank account. 0.99

01:44:23.000 No, no, no, no, no.

01:44:24.000 We're not opening a bank.

01:44:24.000 We're done.

01:44:25.000 Now, look, Allison needed money. 0.99

01:44:27.000 She's broke.

01:44:28.000 And I had rented an apartment for her.

01:44:31.000 She was going in a divorce. 0.99

01:44:32.000 I rented an apartment for her.

01:44:33.000 I furnished it.

01:44:34.000 Sorry, like Brandon Green furnished it.

01:44:36.000 Like the check was a trap?

01:44:39.000 It would have traced back to them.

01:44:40.000 I think it would have traced back.

01:44:41.000 It doesn't matter.

01:44:43.000 Like, I've got a good thing.

01:44:45.000 I'm sorry your thing fell apart.

01:44:47.000 We'll fix it.

01:44:47.000 We'll come up with something else.

01:44:49.000 But to Allison, she was about to make $250,000, and within a few months, another $250,000.

01:44:54.000 She's about to make half a million dollars. 1.00

01:44:55.000 She didn't want to give up.

01:44:56.000 She didn't want to give up.

01:44:56.000 She's like, what are you talking about?

01:44:58.000 And I'm like, look, it's fine.

01:44:59.000 I'll give you a couple thousand dollars.

01:44:59.000 She's like, a couple thousand dollars?

01:45:00.000 What are you talking about? 0.99

01:45:01.000 I'm about to make fucking 60 grand. 0.99

01:45:03.000 Or, sorry, 55,000. 0.99

01:45:07.000 She goes, what about Travis?

01:45:08.000 So I had a buddy of mine, Travis.

01:45:10.000 He was pretending to be Michael White in Orlando.

01:45:18.000 So he had bought a property under the name Michael White, a couple properties, and he'd already refinanced those for like half a million dollars.

01:45:25.000 And he was pulling the money out.

01:45:26.000 He'd gotten out a couple hundred thousand.

01:45:28.000 So she goes, what about Travis?

01:45:29.000 Let's just deposit it in Travis's account.

01:45:31.000 And I'm like, I'm saying no.

01:45:33.000 And she goes, let me call Travis.

01:45:35.000 And I go, you can call him.

01:45:36.000 So we call Travis.

01:45:37.000 Travis goes, well, tell me what happened.

01:45:38.000 I tell him what happened.

01:45:38.000 That money's the water, too, because obviously you got something good with Travis.

01:45:41.000 So it's like, what the fuck? 0.99

01:45:42.000 You're bringing attention over here. 0.99

01:45:43.000 So Travis says, what happened?

01:45:44.000 What do you want to do?

01:45:45.000 What do you think, Matt? 1.00

01:45:46.000 I said, I think it's fucked. 0.99

01:45:47.000 And she's saying it's not. 1.00

01:45:49.000 It's fine.

01:45:50.000 He's exaggerating.

01:45:51.000 He's worried about it.

01:45:53.000 It's going to be fine.

01:45:54.000 I've been doing this for like 16, 17 months at this point, right?

01:45:58.000 So they think like...

01:46:00.000 He's got it all wrapped up, but I've got it wrapped up because I'm pretty careful.

01:46:04.000 I've never gone into a title company. 0.99

01:46:06.000 I've never done a bunch of shit. 0.89

01:46:07.000 So anyway, what ends up happening is she gives the check to Travis. 0.97

01:46:11.000 Travis deposits it.

01:46:13.000 Four or five days.

01:46:14.000 It used to be you deposit a check, you don't get it right away.

01:46:17.000 It takes five, ten days, right?

01:46:19.000 Got it clear.

01:46:19.000 Right.

01:46:20.000 Deposits it.

01:46:21.000 Five days later, four or five days later, She tells me, like, call him, call him.

01:46:25.000 Today the check's good.

01:46:26.000 And I call him and I said, hey, Travis.

01:46:29.000 Allison wants to know.

01:46:30.000 He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:46:32.000 I already got a call from the bank manager.

01:46:34.000 He said they're not going to clear the check and they want to witness me my signature on the back of the check.

01:46:41.000 He said, any endorsements over $100,000, $100,000 check or more has to be witnessed.

01:46:46.000 He wants me to witness it.

01:46:48.000 And I go, bro, something's so wrong about that.

01:46:50.000 I said, don't go to the bank.

01:46:51.000 I said, the cops are waiting for you.

01:46:53.000 And he goes, they're not.

01:46:54.000 I'm pulling in the parking lot right now.

01:46:55.000 There's no cops here.

01:46:56.000 I'm like, well, that's like you're going to be in marked cars.

01:46:58.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:46:59.000 He goes, and I remember he told me, he's, oh, quit fucking, you're shaking like a little girl. 1.00

01:47:04.000 And, you know, and like hangs up the phone. 1.00

01:47:06.000 Yeah.

01:47:06.000 And goes in the bank, gets grabbed.

01:47:08.000 The cops are there.

01:47:09.000 Yep.

01:47:10.000 Who grabbed them?

01:47:11.000 This was in Orlando.

01:47:12.000 Whoever Orlando is.

01:47:14.000 This is the sheriff, by the way.

01:47:15.000 This is an FBI. Orange County.

01:47:17.000 Orange County grabs him.

01:47:18.000 I think it's Orange County.

01:47:19.000 I don't think it's Orange County.

01:47:20.000 Maybe.

01:47:21.000 I don't know.

01:47:22.000 They grab him.

01:47:23.000 They take him downtown.

01:47:25.000 We keep calling him, and he's not answering, and eventually I go to a payphone, and I call the Michael White cell phone.

01:47:39.000 Not Travis, it was Michael White.

01:47:41.000 Walter White!

01:47:42.000 And a detective picks it up.

01:47:44.000 Yeah, it's Orange County.

01:47:44.000 Orange County.

01:47:45.000 A detective picks it up and says, This is, you know, Sergeant so-and-so or Detective so-and-so.

01:47:51.000 Who is this?

01:47:51.000 And I'm like, you know, and I hang up.

01:47:53.000 I'm like, he's done.

01:47:53.000 He got arrested.

01:47:55.000 So the next day he calls me.

01:47:57.000 I go and I bond him out of jail.

01:47:59.000 Well, I don't.

01:47:59.000 I actually give his brother-in-law.

01:48:00.000 I pay his brother-in-law the money to go get him.

01:48:03.000 He gets him out.

01:48:04.000 He gets out.

01:48:05.000 He tells me, you know, he needs an attorney.

01:48:09.000 We go get him an attorney.

01:48:10.000 Did he talk?

01:48:11.000 He didn't talk?

01:48:11.000 Or you don't know yet at this point?

01:48:13.000 I didn't know, but yeah, he had, yeah, absolutely.

01:48:16.000 So he cooperated.

01:48:17.000 And how hard was it for him to prove, I got something huge for you?

01:48:21.000 I got something, detective, I have something huge.

01:48:23.000 Oh yeah, how so?

01:48:24.000 Pull up Hillsborough County Tax Appraisers website.

01:48:29.000 Pull it up.

01:48:30.000 Look up the name James Redd.

01:48:31.000 James Redd, six properties.

01:48:33.000 Look, Auburn foreclosure. 1.00

01:48:35.000 Pull up the name Lee Black.

01:48:37.000 Look, there's five properties.

01:48:39.000 All of them are in foreclosure.

01:48:40.000 Oh, he knew a couple of your other people.

01:48:41.000 He knows all of them.

01:48:42.000 Literally, you've got five or six purchases within a month or two.

01:48:48.000 And within four months, they're all in foreclosure.

01:48:50.000 So it's like, boom, boom, boom, boom.

01:48:52.000 He's like, this guy's borrowed millions, millions of dollars.

01:48:56.000 And he's like, this is the guy I'm working with.

01:48:58.000 Who'd they just arrest him as?

01:48:59.000 Michael White.

01:49:01.000 And they're like, oh, boom.

01:49:02.000 Let's put together a task force.

01:49:03.000 Let's work with you.

01:49:04.000 And his only agreement was, I just can't go to prison.

01:49:07.000 I have a daughter.

01:49:08.000 Just one day in and he did this.

01:49:10.000 He buckled pretty quick.

01:49:12.000 We gotta blame Allison, though.

01:49:14.000 Isn't it crazy?

01:49:15.000 He's always a woman, bro. 1.00

01:49:17.000 Everybody always says this.

01:49:19.000 It's true, though. 1.00

01:49:21.000 It's stupidity on my part. 1.00

01:49:25.000 I honestly thought a lot about it. 1.00

01:49:30.000 I didn't need to get them involved in that.

01:49:32.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:49:32.000 I should have stuck with my thing.

01:49:34.000 I should have cut my fucking mouth shut and just been like, oh yeah, man, I'm just doing good. 1.00

01:49:38.000 I'm flipping properties. 1.00

01:49:39.000 But instead, I got a big mouth. 1.00

01:49:41.000 I run my fucking mouth. 0.99

01:49:42.000 I have to tell everybody how cool I am. 1.00

01:49:43.000 I have to prove to everybody how I'm getting over on the banks. 1.00

01:49:46.000 Just a fucking jackass, right? 1.00

01:49:47.000 Just shut your fucking mouth and everything will be fine. 1.00

01:49:51.000 So you bond him out and he snitched on you, unbeknownst to you, of course, at this point. 1.00

01:49:55.000 Well, no, first I pay for the lawyer to convince him to snitch.

01:49:58.000 But it's all state.

01:49:59.000 So I gave him his lawyer $15,000.

01:50:03.000 So you hired his lawyer and the lawyer told him to snitch and you were okay with that?

01:50:09.000 No, I didn't know that.

01:50:10.000 You didn't tell me.

01:50:11.000 Okay, okay, so his lawyer.

01:50:12.000 So this is the second time you've been for a lawyer that told them to snitch on you.

01:50:15.000 My lawyer gave him the recommendation.

01:50:17.000 Because you got Gretchen the lawyer. 0.97

01:50:19.000 He told her to snitch on you. 0.95

01:50:21.000 And then you get the second lawyer, he says to snitch on you.

01:50:23.000 I'm not the brightest.

01:50:24.000 I have a learning disability.

01:50:28.000 It takes me a while to figure things out.

01:50:31.000 I should have known the first time.

01:50:32.000 A normal person would have known the first time.

01:50:34.000 Not me. 0.99

01:50:34.000 So you bond him out, you get him a lawyer, and this lawyer fucking says you need to snitch on him. 0.99

01:50:37.000 Snitch on that dude. 0.97

01:50:38.000 Like, you need to work with the task force.

01:50:39.000 So they put together a task force, and so one day...

01:50:42.000 I'm still going.

01:50:43.000 Yeah, you're still...

01:50:44.000 Okay.

01:50:44.000 One day, a buddy of mine who's a sheriff's deputy who I'd done a million, two million dollars worth of bad loans for, he and his wife, he comes to me, and he was divorced by this point, but he comes to me and he says...

01:50:56.000 To my office.

01:50:57.000 And he's like, hey, bro.

01:50:58.000 And I'm like, hey, what's up?

01:50:59.000 I remember he had his whole outfit on.

01:51:00.000 You know, every time you see a deputy walk in your thing, you're like, whoop!

01:51:03.000 And I was like, oh, Steve, you gotta stop coming in here like that.

01:51:06.000 And we're laughing.

01:51:07.000 I'm laughing.

01:51:08.000 And he's like, I gotta talk to you outside.

01:51:10.000 Like, okay.

01:51:11.000 We go outside.

01:51:12.000 What's up, bro?

01:51:13.000 And this is in my development company.

01:51:15.000 Now I have a development company in Ybor City.

01:51:17.000 With a bunch of people working there.

01:51:19.000 And I walk out.

01:51:20.000 I'm like, what's up?

01:51:20.000 He said, do you know somebody that got arrested in Orlando?

01:51:23.000 I'm like, yeah.

01:51:24.000 And he goes, okay, whoever that is, he's been working with the task force. 0.99

01:51:27.000 He said, I used to fuck this chick in Tampa that works on the task force. 1.00

01:51:33.000 She's been working on a task force with this guy in Orlando. 0.98

01:51:36.000 And several of the other counties, obviously, Orange County, Pinellas, all these other counties I'm doing this in, right?

01:51:43.000 He's like, they're working all these counties.

01:51:45.000 They put together a task force.

01:51:47.000 And I'm like, okay.

01:51:48.000 He goes, the task force is on you.

01:51:50.000 He goes, my name came up because I bought a bunch of properties from you.

01:51:52.000 So she called me and told me not to talk to you anymore because they said they're coming to arrest you.

01:51:57.000 They just handed it to the FBI. They're coming to arrest you in a couple of days.

01:52:00.000 And he's like, she didn't want me to talk to you because she said you're going to cooperate.

01:52:04.000 And she's afraid that she didn't want me to get jammed up.

01:52:07.000 And I'm like, okay.

01:52:08.000 And he goes, okay.

01:52:09.000 He said, so I just thought I should tell you.

01:52:10.000 I said, no, man.

01:52:11.000 Good looking out.

01:52:11.000 I appreciate that.

01:52:12.000 And he said, what do you want to do?

01:52:14.000 He goes, what are you going to do?

01:52:16.000 And I went, I mean, I'm leaving.

01:52:18.000 Like, I can't stay in floor.

01:52:19.000 I can't stay here.

01:52:20.000 I'm surprised he didn't get in trouble.

01:52:21.000 I can't.

01:52:22.000 No, he didn't.

01:52:22.000 He didn't get anything.

01:52:23.000 Listen, if I tell you what happened— That sheriff's deputy didn't get arrested either?

01:52:26.000 No, no.

01:52:27.000 He's on my indictment as an unnamed co-conspirator.

01:52:31.000 When I tell you the whole thing, you'll understand.

01:52:33.000 By the time they catch me, the entire economy is collapsing.

01:52:37.000 So do you work on banks that are collapsing for $500 million, or do you work on a five-year-old case— For 40 or 50 million.

01:52:48.000 Okay, interesting.

01:52:49.000 You go for the banks that are a billion dollar bank or whatever now in the five year old case.

01:52:55.000 So what happens is he comes to me and he's like, what are you going to do?

01:52:57.000 I said, oh, I'm leaving.

01:52:58.000 I'm leaving.

01:52:59.000 What year is this now?

01:53:01.000 2003.

01:53:02.000 Late, almost 2004.

01:53:03.000 Like December 2003.

01:53:06.000 And he's like, what are you doing?

01:53:07.000 You had been doing this for a while.

01:53:08.000 When did your buddy get jammed up? 1.00

01:53:09.000 When did this idiot get jammed up? 1.00

01:53:13.000 Four or five months earlier. 1.00

01:53:15.000 Okay.

01:53:15.000 And he's the one that probably got this task force thing started on you.

01:53:17.000 No, of course.

01:53:18.000 Yeah.

01:53:18.000 He worked with it.

01:53:19.000 Travis worked with the task force the whole time.

01:53:21.000 Yeah.

01:53:21.000 Okay.

01:53:22.000 Steve might- And it was a state task force to be- State.

01:53:24.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:53:24.000 Just, yeah, yeah.

01:53:25.000 You know, FDLE, the local county.

01:53:27.000 Gotcha.

01:53:28.000 And then when they got it together, they realized, hey, there's too many banks, too many, you know, whatever, national banks involved.

01:53:35.000 Yeah.

01:53:35.000 It's too big.

01:53:36.000 For us, the locals, let's give it to the FBI. So they give it to the FBI, and of course you can come arrest me because I'm on probation.

01:53:43.000 You don't have to do anything but just say, we're going to arrest you.

01:53:47.000 For what?

01:53:47.000 I think you did something.

01:53:49.000 Like, I have no rights on probation.

01:53:52.000 So...

01:53:53.000 No, no, I'm listening.

01:53:54.000 Okay.

01:53:54.000 So he says, you know, what are you going to do?

01:53:56.000 I say, I'm taking off.

01:53:57.000 You know, I can't go to prison, you know.

01:53:59.000 So I'm like, you know, like I've seen Shawshank Redemption.

01:54:03.000 I know what happened.

01:54:05.000 So I'm just joking.

01:54:07.000 That doesn't happen.

01:54:08.000 Anyway.

01:54:08.000 So, but, you know, I don't know that.

01:54:11.000 Like I've seen two movies, Shawshank Redemption and a movie called Animal Factory.

01:54:14.000 Neither are good.

01:54:16.000 Nothing goes good for these guys.

01:54:18.000 In the animal factory, there's a little white guy.

01:54:20.000 It's not good, bro.

01:54:21.000 It's not good.

01:54:22.000 So I'm thinking, I can't go.

01:54:24.000 I'm adorable.

01:54:26.000 Like a pretzel! 0.65

01:54:30.000 Honestly, to a guy with a life sentence, I might as well be wearing a dress.

01:54:34.000 So, I mean, that's what I thought.

01:54:35.000 But anyway, so I say, oh, I'm leaving.

01:54:38.000 So I take off on the run, right?

01:54:40.000 I get like 80 grand.

01:54:41.000 Even though we have maybe half a million to a million dollars in several accounts, this is a Thursday at like 4 o'clock.

01:54:47.000 I have one day to get out money.

01:54:49.000 I start giving everybody...

01:54:51.000 Go cash this check is $8,000.

01:54:52.000 Go cash $7,000, $5,000, $8,000, $9,000.

01:54:55.000 Under $10,000 for reporting requirements.

01:54:56.000 Right.

01:54:57.000 I get $80,000 the next day.

01:54:59.000 And the chick I was dating at the time, who I'd only been dating a few months.

01:55:02.000 Okay.

01:55:02.000 Not Allison, thankfully.

01:55:03.000 How many texts did you have, bro?

01:55:05.000 You have a lot of chicks. 0.98

01:55:06.000 And I actually had slept with Allison for a few months. 0.99

01:55:10.000 Well, that was obvious.

01:55:11.000 It just didn't work out.

01:55:12.000 We knew that.

01:55:13.000 So, anyway.

01:55:16.000 So, I... So I end up, I get this money, I take, and I'm packing my bags, and the chick that I was dating comes over to my house, because I hadn't returned her calls all day. 0.99

01:55:29.000 And we were supposed to go out that night, and she's just like, what's going on?

01:55:31.000 I'm like, oh, hey, what's going on?

01:55:33.000 Yeah.

01:55:35.000 It's a funny story.

01:55:37.000 And so I'm packing a bag, and I'm like, this is what's going on. 0.99

01:55:42.000 And she's like, holy shit. 1.00

01:55:43.000 And so I tell her, and she's like, what are you going to do? 0.99

01:55:44.000 I said, I'm leaving.

01:55:45.000 She's like, what are you going to do for money?

01:55:46.000 I said, I'm just going to run a couple scams, get a few million dollars, buy some rental properties, and let the whole thing blow over and just acclimate back into society.

01:55:54.000 And she's like, well...

01:55:56.000 I want to come with you. 0.99

01:55:57.000 And I'm like, what are you fucking talking about? 0.99

01:56:00.000 We barely even know each other. 0.99

01:56:02.000 And she's like, well, I'm in love with you.

01:56:04.000 And I'm like, honestly, I don't think this was ever...

01:56:06.000 And that's sweet, but this was never going to become love for me.

01:56:10.000 You know?

01:56:11.000 How dare you! 0.99

01:56:11.000 I slept with her... 0.99

01:56:14.000 Probably not even a dozen times.

01:56:16.000 She's a nice girl and everything, but no.

01:56:20.000 She begs and pleads for me to come with her.

01:56:22.000 Another bad mistake.

01:56:23.000 I end up saying yes.

01:56:26.000 First of all, I don't think people realize how frightening it is to leave everything you know and just go off on the run.

01:56:33.000 That's a terrifying experience or idea.

01:56:38.000 Anyway, I write a letter to my parents.

01:56:41.000 Mom, Dad, sorry.

01:56:44.000 You know, here's what I've done. 0.99

01:56:46.000 Fucked up. 0.51

01:56:47.000 I'm sorry. 1.00

01:56:49.000 I'm a shitty son. 0.97

01:56:50.000 You deserve better. 1.00

01:56:51.000 I'm done.

01:56:52.000 I'm leaving.

01:56:53.000 And I take off.

01:56:54.000 You know, write a letter to my ex-wife.

01:56:57.000 Kayla.

01:56:58.000 Kayla.

01:56:58.000 And, you know, and I have a son.

01:57:00.000 And, you know, just basically just realized that, like, I kind of felt like if I went to prison, she was never going to bring him home.

01:57:08.000 To see me in prison.

01:57:10.000 You know, I basically justified all that, all those reasons to just walk away from everybody.

01:57:16.000 So I take off on the run, and when we go off on the run, now we have a problem because we don't have any money.

01:57:26.000 How long did that 80k last you?

01:57:29.000 Yeah, we burned through it pretty quick.

01:57:30.000 A couple of months maybe?

01:57:33.000 Well, we were a little frugal, you know, a little bit, but we are going on vacation.

01:57:37.000 So I immediately go to Atlanta and I rent a house in Alpharetta, Georgia, so like a suburb.

01:57:44.000 And I rent this house from a guy named Michael Shanahan.

01:57:47.000 And I make a fake ID in Michael Shanahan's name and I go down to public records and I satisfy the mortgage.

01:57:53.000 He has two mortgages.

01:57:54.000 The scheme again, okay.

01:57:55.000 I satisfy both mortgages on his property.

01:57:57.000 I then call, because keep in mind I have a fake ID in his name and I'm using a child social security number, but I don't have any credit.

01:58:05.000 Like I get a couple secured credit cards, but it takes six months to get scores.

01:58:08.000 So I got a couple credit cards, but if you pull his credit, he's got no scores.

01:58:13.000 Yeah.

01:58:13.000 So I can't go to a bank.

01:58:15.000 So what I do, but I do now own a house worth $200,000.

01:58:18.000 Okay.

01:58:19.000 And it looks like I've owned it for 10 years.

01:58:21.000 Yeah.

01:58:22.000 So, because my name is Michael Shanahan.

01:58:24.000 So I call three hard money lenders and Which are basically guys that have a lot of money that lend based on the equity of your home.

01:58:31.000 And they charge like 12% interest, whatever.

01:58:34.000 So all three of them come over.

01:58:38.000 Like one comes in at 10 o'clock that morning.

01:58:40.000 Then one comes at 11 or 12.

01:58:42.000 And one comes at like 2.

01:58:43.000 They all look at the house.

01:58:45.000 None of them know about the other ones.

01:58:47.000 And I convince all of them to lend me $150,000 apiece.

01:58:50.000 So we close on the same day.

01:58:52.000 And I get like $400,000.

01:58:55.000 Right?

01:58:56.000 I mean, yeah, I deposit it in the bank account, I start pulling out the money, I pull out $400,000, and I take off on the run.

01:59:05.000 Again, like we take off again.

01:59:09.000 So, I mean, there's actually a story there, but I can move on since, I mean, we're approaching 10 o'clock.

01:59:16.000 No, don't worry.

01:59:17.000 You're good.

01:59:17.000 Trust me, bro.

01:59:18.000 This is a good story, man.

01:59:19.000 Okay.

01:59:20.000 Continue on, sir.

01:59:21.000 I need some popcorn, bro.

01:59:22.000 You got popcorn in the back?

01:59:22.000 Yeah, don't worry.

01:59:24.000 Like I said, guys, FNF news coming soon.

01:59:25.000 I'm waiting for Elijah.

01:59:26.000 Elijah Schaefer's going to pull up, too, so that's fine.

01:59:28.000 We'll wait for him.

01:59:29.000 So what ends up happening is...

01:59:31.000 Need more coffee or are you good?

01:59:32.000 No, no, I'm good.

01:59:32.000 So I'm pulling money out of the banks, right?

01:59:35.000 Like Becky's going in, I'm going in, we'll get $8,000, $7,000, $5,000, $9,000.

01:59:40.000 Oh, this $400K that you have.

01:59:41.000 Yeah, we pull it all out. 0.98

01:59:42.000 And at one point I get frustrated because it's like, fuck, this is taking forever, right? 0.97

01:59:46.000 And we've got it set up perfectly, right? 0.99

01:59:48.000 Like I'm varying the balances on the bank.

01:59:50.000 And just so the audience knows, he's pulling it under 10K because you have to report it to the IRS whenever you pull $10,000 or more.

01:59:56.000 And that obviously leaves a transaction record and everything.

01:59:59.000 He didn't want that.

02:00:00.000 So it's funny you say that.

02:00:01.000 So here's the problem.

02:00:02.000 At some point, I get frustrated.

02:00:05.000 And I have a check for $29,000.

02:00:06.000 One of the refinances, we had a check for $29,000.

02:00:09.000 And keep in mind, we also, I always forget this, we also went to Tallahassee and did one in the name of Teresa Knight, where Becky goes in and signs.

02:00:19.000 So we got more, we got some money, right?

02:00:21.000 Not too much, but whatever, half a million.

02:00:23.000 So...

02:00:26.000 At one point, we're getting close to the end, and I'm frantic, right?

02:00:29.000 Like, we've got almost all the money.

02:00:30.000 And it's like, I've got a check for $29,000.

02:00:32.000 And typically, I would go in and just give it to them.

02:00:34.000 So you would just walk around with this cash?

02:00:36.000 No, no.

02:00:36.000 We have it in a duffel bag.

02:00:37.000 We have it hidden.

02:00:38.000 Yeah, of course.

02:00:39.000 But your goal is to get it out of the bank as quickly as possible and have it in cash.

02:00:43.000 There's no crypto or anything.

02:00:44.000 This is 2004 probably now at this point.

02:00:46.000 Right.

02:00:47.000 Exactly.

02:00:47.000 That's exactly what it was.

02:00:48.000 So I go into the bank one time and it was like, I'm going to say it was SunTrust Bank.

02:00:55.000 So I go into SunTrust Bank and we did a cashier's check that had been issued from SunTrust Bank, from the title company.

02:01:03.000 In the name of Scott Cugno.

02:01:06.000 And I had a real ID in the name Scott Cugno.

02:01:09.000 Because by this point, I was able...

02:01:11.000 I ordered...

02:01:12.000 It was a real person.

02:01:14.000 Oh, my God.

02:01:16.000 It was a real person that I knew.

02:01:18.000 And I just had a conversation with him.

02:01:20.000 And I ended up getting all of his enough information out during the conversation to steal his identity.

02:01:25.000 Oh, wow.

02:01:26.000 And then I... Stop it.

02:01:27.000 Stop.

02:01:29.000 I see you.

02:01:33.000 You've never done anything wrong.

02:01:36.000 I feel bad.

02:01:38.000 About this person, right?

02:01:40.000 You feel bad about this person?

02:01:40.000 No.

02:01:43.000 Come on, bro.

02:01:44.000 And listen, Scott, I've tried to talk to Scott Cugdo.

02:01:47.000 I've tried to talk to him many times.

02:01:49.000 He doesn't want to talk to me.

02:01:50.000 I would either.

02:01:51.000 I mean, he's holding resentment.

02:01:53.000 That's not good for him.

02:01:56.000 Anyway, I also borrowed.

02:01:59.000 I also bought a car in his name.

02:02:00.000 I was not laughing.

02:02:02.000 Opened up some bank accounts.

02:02:03.000 I was not laughing, by the way.

02:02:05.000 But the point is, so what I do is I so I have a driver's license in his name.

02:02:11.000 That is scary, bro.

02:02:12.000 So I can talk to you, you take my info, and then, but that's me?

02:02:15.000 That's scary, bro.

02:02:16.000 Bro, this was 2004, too. 0.99

02:02:18.000 This was before internet and computers and shit. 0.96

02:02:20.000 He was stealing dudes' identities to Linkin Park. 0.97

02:02:24.000 I got so far!

02:02:26.000 Not to far!

02:02:27.000 In the end!

02:02:31.000 So I go into SunTrust Bank, and I say to the guy at SunTrust Bank, I go, listen.

02:02:36.000 So I try and cash.

02:02:37.000 I go up to the teller, I need $29,000.

02:02:39.000 She's like, oh, okay.

02:02:41.000 Well, go sit over there.

02:02:42.000 So I go sit in, like, the guy, the manager's office or something, right?

02:02:45.000 A little cubicle with, like, these glass partitions.

02:02:47.000 I sit down.

02:02:48.000 Manager comes over and says, hey, I understand you're trying to cash this check.

02:02:52.000 I'm like, right.

02:02:53.000 He said, why...

02:02:54.000 Why don't you just deposit in your own bank?

02:02:56.000 I went, well, my bank's in Florida, and they're going to hold it for like 10 days, and I need the cash.

02:03:01.000 He's like, well, what are you doing with the cash?

02:03:02.000 I go, well, I own a construction company.

02:03:04.000 I have a perfect story.

02:03:06.000 I own a construction company, and we have a lot of migrants and stuff, and basically, yeah, laborers, like Mexican laborers. 1.00

02:03:14.000 They don't have bank accounts.

02:03:15.000 I said, so I cash their checks for them.

02:03:18.000 And I said, because I know the checks are good because this is my company.

02:03:20.000 And he's like, okay, that makes sense.

02:03:23.000 And he's like, okay.

02:03:23.000 You're good at this, man.

02:03:24.000 And he turns around and he leaves.

02:03:26.000 He comes back a little bit later.

02:03:27.000 He asks me some more questions.

02:03:28.000 Keep in mind, the chick, Becky, is calling me nonstop. 1.00

02:03:32.000 My phone's ringing like every three minutes.

02:03:34.000 Like, what are you doing? 0.99

02:03:35.000 And I'm like, ah, the guy's being a dick. 0.99

02:03:36.000 He doesn't want to give me the money. 0.99

02:03:37.000 She's like, get out of the bank. 1.00

02:03:39.000 Get out of the bank.

02:03:39.000 And I'm like, why?

02:03:40.000 She's like, get out of the bank. 1.00

02:03:41.000 And I'm like, look, don't call me.

02:03:43.000 Like, if you see a cop's pulling in, tell me. 0.99

02:03:45.000 You see some deputies pulling, I'll fucking take off. 0.98

02:03:48.000 And then you meet me behind the Publix two blocks away. 0.96

02:03:51.000 How long have you guys been on the run now at this point?

02:03:53.000 A few months?

02:03:54.000 Six months.

02:03:54.000 Six months at this point.

02:03:55.000 Keep in mind, by this point, we've gone to Jamaica.

02:03:57.000 We've gone all over.

02:04:00.000 But you guys would typically stay.

02:04:02.000 But you're in Georgia now at this point, right?

02:04:04.000 You're in Georgia at this point?

02:04:05.000 Why not just stay abroad in Columbia or something and never come back?

02:04:08.000 Because then I have to live in Columbia.

02:04:10.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:04:12.000 I don't live there either.

02:04:13.000 I'll visit but never.

02:04:15.000 First of all, I don't have any money.

02:04:17.000 I'm trying to get a few million dollars.

02:04:19.000 First of all, if I go there with a few million dollars, my fear is they'll take it from me.

02:04:23.000 And I don't mean the local Colombians. 0.93

02:04:25.000 I'm like, the cops will take it from me.

02:04:27.000 Clearly, people are looking for you and you seem to have a lot of cash.

02:04:31.000 I'm just going to take it.

02:04:32.000 And I don't know much. 0.96

02:04:34.000 Maybe that's not true, but I can't fuck up, right? 0.92

02:04:38.000 So what I do is, the guy asks me some questions. 0.98

02:04:42.000 He leaves.

02:04:43.000 I got Becky calling me on the phone.

02:04:44.000 Get out of the bank.

02:04:45.000 I can't get out of the bank.

02:04:46.000 He's got my driver's license.

02:04:47.000 He's got my credit card. 0.99

02:04:48.000 He's got a fucking check for $29,000. 1.00

02:04:49.000 He'll call the police. 1.00

02:04:50.000 I have to wait it out.

02:04:52.000 He comes back, goes back.

02:04:53.000 So we're going back and forth.

02:04:55.000 She's calling me.

02:04:56.000 And then at some point, the phone rings, and I look at the phone.

02:04:59.000 And I don't recognize the number. 0.99

02:05:01.000 Oh, shit. 0.99

02:05:02.000 And I'm like – so I pick up the phone. 0.99

02:05:04.000 I'm like, hello?

02:05:06.000 And the person says, hi, Mr.

02:05:11.000 Shanahan.

02:05:11.000 Remember I refinanced Michael Shanahan's house.

02:05:14.000 Hi, Mr.

02:05:15.000 Shanahan.

02:05:15.000 This is Kimberly from SunTrust Bank.

02:05:17.000 We have someone in here trying to cash a large check that was written on a title company account from a refinance you did.

02:05:25.000 Just wondering if you could verify the payee and the amount.

02:05:29.000 And he's like, yeah, that should be Scott Cugno.

02:05:32.000 And so I say, that should be Scott Cugno.

02:05:35.000 I believe it's for $29,000.

02:05:37.000 So I answer whatever the question was.

02:05:39.000 And she's like, oh, okay.

02:05:41.000 And keep in mind, I'm looking around like, Kimberly's in the bank somewhere. 0.99

02:05:45.000 So I'm looking around like, where the fuck? 0.99

02:05:47.000 And I say, how did you get this number? 0.99

02:05:49.000 And she goes, oh... 0.96

02:05:51.000 And this was back when they had like 411.

02:05:53.000 You could call, right?

02:05:55.000 You could call and get someone's phone number.

02:05:57.000 There's like the white pages, whatever.

02:06:00.000 And what they did, they didn't do that.

02:06:04.000 They said, oh, we called the title company.

02:06:06.000 And the title company gave me your phone number.

02:06:10.000 So the title, because this is not Michael Shanahan.

02:06:13.000 They called the title company and got the name Michael Shanahan and got the phone number from the title company.

02:06:18.000 And they gave my phone number.

02:06:20.000 They could have called the real Michael Shanahan.

02:06:22.000 If she'd really looked at the real Michael Shanahan, he'd be like, what's going on? 0.99

02:06:25.000 What the fuck are you talking about? 0.99

02:06:26.000 I got a mortgage on this house. 1.00

02:06:28.000 What are you talking about?

02:06:28.000 So I'm like, and he still does.

02:06:31.000 Several.

02:06:32.000 And I'm sitting there like, I'm like, oh, okay.

02:06:35.000 She goes, yeah, we called her.

02:06:36.000 That's okay.

02:06:37.000 Oh, no, no, no, it's fine.

02:06:37.000 She's like, okay, thank you.

02:06:39.000 Hang up the phone. 0.99

02:06:41.000 Fucking five minutes later. 0.99

02:06:44.000 A guy, the manager, and this chick comes out, walks up to me, and he says, Mr. 0.99

02:06:50.000 Cugno, I have your money.

02:06:52.000 And he starts counting out the $29,000.

02:06:54.000 He counts it out twice.

02:06:56.000 And she's standing there.

02:06:57.000 And I'm assuming this might be Kimberly, although she never talked it.

02:07:00.000 And I'm like – and he counts it out, and he goes, okay. 0.91

02:07:03.000 And I remember I pick it up, and I remember I'm shoving it in my pockets like – I look like, you just look like a scoundrel.

02:07:12.000 Shoving like, I gotta get out of here.

02:07:15.000 I didn't prepare for this.

02:07:17.000 So I'm shoving the money in my pockets and I get up and I'm starting to walk off and he says, Mr.

02:07:23.000 Cugno?

02:07:23.000 And I said, yes sir.

02:07:24.000 And he goes, I'd like to mention something.

02:07:27.000 He said, I feel very apprehensive about this transaction.

02:07:31.000 I go, really?

02:07:32.000 And I go, what is it exactly?

02:07:33.000 And he goes, I can't put my finger on it.

02:07:36.000 And I go, it'll come to you. 0.99

02:07:38.000 And I turn around, I bolt right out of the fucking front door, hop in the car. 0.99

02:07:43.000 Becky backs out, drives off. 1.00

02:07:46.000 And listen, I mean, I'm just like, holy shit. 0.99

02:07:50.000 You're not going to fucking believe what just happened. 0.99

02:07:52.000 And she's like, and you know, that's, yeah. 0.98

02:07:55.000 So I take off and he, so the Secret Service shows up like a week later.

02:07:59.000 Oh, at your house?

02:08:00.000 No, no, at the bank and explains like, did you cash a check?

02:08:03.000 Because keep in mind, they filled out a CCR, cash transaction report.

02:08:06.000 They also filled out. 1.00

02:08:07.000 Because you said fuck it at this point. 1.00

02:08:08.000 Yeah, 10K plus. 1.00

02:08:09.000 They also filled out a suspicious activity report.

02:08:12.000 Ah.

02:08:13.000 So both of them.

02:08:14.000 They fill up the SAR? Yeah, yeah.

02:08:17.000 But I'm not there for the IRS, for the audit.

02:08:20.000 Can you tell me what that actually means?

02:08:21.000 So a SAR, okay, I'm actually shocked that you even know what that is.

02:08:25.000 So a SAR suspicious activity report.

02:08:27.000 Anytime you do financial transactions, I'm going to be careful here with my words.

02:08:32.000 Suspicious transaction reports, it could be anything.

02:08:35.000 They'll fill out something called a SAR and it goes to a central location and then that information gets divied out to different...

02:08:40.000 Different law enforcement agencies.

02:08:42.000 Did this come out in your discovery?

02:08:44.000 It came out when I was talking to the Secret Service.

02:08:47.000 They'd been there.

02:08:50.000 They talked to these people.

02:08:51.000 They told you that there was a SAR. They told me the manager was like, listen.

02:08:55.000 Is that proper?

02:08:56.000 I would never tell a target that it was a part of a SAR. Well, I wasn't a target at that point.

02:08:59.000 I was done.

02:09:00.000 Yeah, but Target is someone you're looking at.

02:09:03.000 I would never tell them a SAR, but everyone's different. 0.99

02:09:05.000 I'm too paranoid to do this shit, bro. 1.00

02:09:07.000 I'm too scared to do this shit, bro. 1.00

02:09:08.000 I'm too scared. 1.00

02:09:08.000 So what's funny about that is she's the one who was like, listen, boy, that bank manager did everything to try and figure out what was happening. 1.00

02:09:17.000 He called everybody.

02:09:19.000 He knew.

02:09:19.000 He knew something was up.

02:09:21.000 So he filed a SAR. Obviously, they had to fill out the CTR, Currency Transaction Report.

02:09:26.000 Did he also call Secret Service, too?

02:09:28.000 No, no.

02:09:29.000 He didn't do that.

02:09:30.000 He didn't call anybody.

02:09:31.000 You just did the SAR? Yeah.

02:09:32.000 He ran the reports.

02:09:33.000 He ran me through LexisNexis.

02:09:35.000 He's running all these tests or all these systems to try and figure out what's going on.

02:09:44.000 He's calling the title company.

02:09:46.000 He knows something's wrong.

02:09:47.000 LexisNexis, just for the audience, because they might not know, that's a database, guys, where you can basically pull people's information from utility records, et cetera, because he probably was questioning if you're the real guy.

02:09:57.000 So he was like, yeah, that's probably why.

02:09:59.000 But he just couldn't.

02:10:00.000 And listen, I've had multiple things happen.

02:10:03.000 So one of the things I did when we were on the run, because at this point, I don't know if I mentioned this, at this point, There's articles.

02:10:11.000 There's got to be...

02:10:12.000 Let me put it this way.

02:10:13.000 The St.

02:10:13.000 Petersburg Times did like 34 articles on me.

02:10:16.000 And by this point, they've already done like 12.

02:10:18.000 Because when I take off, they're like, serial signer, like, you know, phantom identities.

02:10:24.000 And this is all front page.

02:10:26.000 Yeah, and they didn't know what your real name was at this point.

02:10:28.000 No, no.

02:10:28.000 In Tampa, they do know.

02:10:29.000 Because now they...

02:10:30.000 Remember this...

02:10:31.000 When the FBI showed up...

02:10:32.000 When I left, the FBI showed up like three, four days later.

02:10:35.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:10:38.000 And they're questioning everybody.

02:10:40.000 They're going around.

02:10:40.000 They go.

02:10:41.000 They talk to Eric.

02:10:42.000 They talk to us.

02:10:42.000 They're talking to everybody.

02:10:43.000 You know, like, let's face it, even if Eric doesn't say anything, as soon as they go in and, well, who's this?

02:10:48.000 They start showing, do you know this person?

02:10:50.000 They're like, oh, that's Eric.

02:10:51.000 Oh, that's so-and-so.

02:10:52.000 So they just go talk to him.

02:10:53.000 Eric immediately says, yeah, listen, this is what I did.

02:10:56.000 So everybody says, you know, Allison.

02:10:58.000 Allison actually goes downtown with her lawyer and just says, I'll tell you everything. 0.66

02:11:03.000 I just, I don't want to go to jail.

02:11:05.000 And they agree.

02:11:06.000 They won't send her to jail.

02:11:07.000 Wow.

02:11:08.000 And guess what she did?

02:11:09.000 Guess what they did?

02:11:10.000 They sent her to jail. 0.98

02:11:11.000 So she got 30 months.

02:11:13.000 I also got 30 months.

02:11:14.000 She never got made any money.

02:11:15.000 I mean, other than the money I gave her, you know, just that she was divorced.

02:11:19.000 She needs a place to stay. 1.00

02:11:20.000 I'll get you an apartment.

02:11:21.000 You know, I have no furniture.

02:11:23.000 I'll get you the furniture.

02:11:23.000 You know, we'll go to Target.

02:11:25.000 We'll buy all new.

02:11:25.000 We just, it's completely brand new.

02:11:27.000 It looked like a fucking model home. 0.99

02:11:28.000 Well, she got what she wanted. 1.00

02:11:29.000 A place to stay?

02:11:30.000 A jail?

02:11:30.000 Yeah, she wanted half a million dollars.

02:11:32.000 Like, you know, but that's what she thinks she was going to get.

02:11:34.000 But, you know, I... So this guy, so Secret Service shows up at, so FBI showed up there, where you used to be, and then you said Secret Service ends up showing up at the place where you cash this check for $29,000.

02:11:44.000 They showed up everywhere.

02:11:45.000 Look, keep in mind, by this point I got like $400 and some odd thousand dollars.

02:11:49.000 We take off.

02:11:49.000 Yeah.

02:11:50.000 We go to Charlotte.

02:11:51.000 We rent an apartment in Charlotte.

02:11:53.000 I get...

02:11:54.000 The girl that you ran away with?

02:11:55.000 Yes.

02:11:55.000 Not Allison.

02:11:56.000 No, no, not Allison.

02:11:57.000 Allison's still...

02:11:57.000 Allison's back in...

02:11:58.000 Allison got her own problems. 0.98

02:11:59.000 Yeah.

02:12:00.000 This is Becky, right?

02:12:01.000 Yeah, this is Becky.

02:12:02.000 Becky.

02:12:02.000 So, we're getting cosmetic surgery.

02:12:05.000 Becky gets, like, a boob job. 1.00

02:12:07.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

02:12:08.000 She gets a tummy tuck. 1.00

02:12:09.000 She, like, you know...

02:12:09.000 I mean, I get a nose job.

02:12:12.000 I get a face...

02:12:13.000 They call it a mini facelift.

02:12:15.000 I get my teeth done.

02:12:17.000 I get hair transplants, you know, hair grafts, whatever.

02:12:21.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:12:22.000 I've done that before.

02:12:24.000 Looks good.

02:12:24.000 Thanks, man.

02:12:25.000 I appreciate it.

02:12:25.000 You got the good hair.

02:12:26.000 You can comb it down like that and nobody knows.

02:12:27.000 Yeah, I just brush it for you.

02:12:28.000 I got it, too.

02:12:30.000 No, you didn't.

02:12:32.000 He knew he didn't.

02:12:37.000 It's funny, too, because whenever I tell somebody who's balding that, I feel like the big titty girl in the mall.

02:12:42.000 They never look at me in the face again.

02:12:44.000 The whole time they're staring at my hairline.

02:12:47.000 The whole time.

02:12:49.000 So you're in Charlotte now, you said, right?

02:12:50.000 I'm in Charlotte.

02:12:51.000 So you left Georgia, too much heat, got out of there.

02:12:53.000 We were in a place.

02:12:54.000 Did you know that Secret Service agents went to that place at this point, or you didn't know yet?

02:12:57.000 I don't know.

02:12:58.000 I know they're showing up.

02:12:59.000 Well, I know they showed up because we were on the local news, like the news that they had John Doe posters of us, because it takes them a while to figure out who we are.

02:13:06.000 But keep in mind, I'm not trying to cover my tracks at this point.

02:13:09.000 I'm putting my fingerprint on the fucking, like if I cash a check, boom, no problem. 0.95

02:13:14.000 Like, I'm already wanted. 0.99

02:13:16.000 Yeah.

02:13:16.000 So, anyway, we go to Charlotte.

02:13:21.000 We go to Vegas and we survey homeless people.

02:13:26.000 We go to Vegas, one, to give Becky's ex-husband and her money for her son.

02:13:32.000 She has a son that lives in Vegas.

02:13:34.000 So she goes and gives him whatever it was, like 30 grand.

02:13:37.000 We give her parents some money.

02:13:39.000 So then what we do is we're staying in Charlotte.

02:13:43.000 I go to Columbia, South Carolina.

02:13:46.000 Or Columbus, South Carolina?

02:13:47.000 Columbus.

02:13:48.000 I think it's Columbus.

02:13:49.000 Columbus, South Carolina, with the name Gary Sullivan, which is a homeless guy.

02:13:54.000 I go get an ID and his name, and I buy two houses.

02:13:58.000 Wait, you spoke to Gary on the street.

02:14:00.000 Oh, I didn't mention this.

02:14:02.000 By this point, I'm surveying homeless people.

02:14:03.000 Yo, bro.

02:14:05.000 You're a piece of work, bro.

02:14:06.000 I can't stop.

02:14:07.000 Me with the judgment.

02:14:08.000 You're a piece of work, bro.

02:14:10.000 Jesus.

02:14:10.000 What did they do to you, bro?

02:14:13.000 The homeless.

02:14:14.000 They're not using their identities.

02:14:15.000 But they're still people.

02:14:17.000 Okay.

02:14:19.000 They're not using it.

02:14:20.000 They're fine.

02:14:21.000 I gave them 20 bucks to take a survey.

02:14:23.000 20 bucks?

02:14:24.000 They took the survey.

02:14:25.000 So I make up a survey form and I go around to the homeless people and I say, hey, I work for the Salvation Army.

02:14:32.000 We're taking a survey to try and deter...

02:14:35.000 I really expected more.

02:14:40.000 From you guys.

02:14:41.000 Wait, wait, wait!

02:14:43.000 Hold on! 0.98

02:14:43.000 You're telling me! 0.98

02:14:45.000 I talk to anyone!

02:14:46.000 They can steal my info like that?

02:14:47.000 A woman, a guy, just tell them about myself and what I do.

02:14:51.000 I had certain questions.

02:14:52.000 I have a survey and I said I've taken surveys to try and determine where we place our next homeless facility.

02:14:58.000 Give me three questions.

02:14:59.000 The question?

02:15:00.000 Yeah, three of them.

02:15:01.000 Three of them?

02:15:02.000 Three important ones?

02:15:03.000 Yeah, the three questions that you would use to steal identity.

02:15:06.000 Name, date of birth, and social security number.

02:15:09.000 Never say that again to anybody.

02:15:11.000 Wait, wait, socials?

02:15:13.000 Of course, they give me...

02:15:14.000 They're homeless.

02:15:15.000 The few times that they did, I've had one or two guys say, um...

02:15:20.000 No, bro.

02:15:22.000 No, bro.

02:15:23.000 After this guy fills out the whole form. 0.97

02:15:26.000 And you can tell that a lot of them have mental illnesses and stuff.

02:15:28.000 So after the whole form... 0.76

02:15:31.000 This is horrible.

02:15:32.000 Yo, this is crazy, man. 0.86

02:15:34.000 Yo, you're a piece of work, man.

02:15:36.000 I feel bad.

02:15:38.000 I feel bad about it.

02:15:39.000 I don't know what's wrong with you, bro.

02:15:41.000 So...

02:15:43.000 So, you want to hear this?

02:15:44.000 Yeah, sorry, go ahead.

02:15:45.000 So, this one guy, I filled out the whole form, right?

02:15:49.000 And it's him and another guy.

02:15:50.000 And he goes like this.

02:15:51.000 He goes, man, I feel like something's wrong, bro.

02:15:53.000 And I went, I said, what's wrong?

02:15:56.000 He goes, I feel like maybe this is, like, we're in trouble.

02:15:58.000 Like, maybe you're stealing my identity or something.

02:16:01.000 And I looked at him and I went...

02:16:03.000 Why would I steal your identity?

02:16:05.000 And he goes, I don't know.

02:16:08.000 I said, are you rich?

02:16:09.000 He goes, no.

02:16:10.000 I go, do you have good credit?

02:16:11.000 He goes, no.

02:16:13.000 I said, so what good's your identity?

02:16:15.000 And he goes, and then the other guy with him is like, yeah, bro, what are you doing?

02:16:21.000 He's like, do you want the 20 bucks or not?

02:16:23.000 I'm like, do you want the 20 bucks?

02:16:24.000 I go, I'll tear it up right now.

02:16:26.000 He's like, no, no, no, give me the 20 bucks.

02:16:28.000 So he gives me the 20 bucks.

02:16:28.000 They take the 20 bucks.

02:16:30.000 They go get a, you know, Chick-fil-A. Yeah, they're good.

02:16:33.000 They all seem very happy.

02:16:35.000 So...

02:16:37.000 Chick-fil-a, but filet the identity.

02:16:39.000 You want 20 bucks? 0.99

02:16:41.000 Come on, nigga. 1.00

02:16:42.000 You want some food? 1.00

02:16:44.000 What the fuck? 1.00

02:16:48.000 There's so many homeless here in Miami, bro. 1.00

02:16:50.000 You be good.

02:16:51.000 Don't get me started.

02:16:55.000 Part two.

02:16:56.000 Part two, literally.

02:16:57.000 DC edition, Miami.

02:16:59.000 Sorry, go ahead.

02:17:00.000 Sorry, man.

02:17:00.000 Keep going.

02:17:01.000 Sorry, go ahead.

02:17:02.000 All right, so you got the Sullivan name.

02:17:03.000 At this point, so at this point...

02:17:05.000 By the way, Elijah's in the house, guys.

02:17:06.000 He's in the back, chilling.

02:17:06.000 Shout out to Elijah.

02:17:07.000 He's here.

02:17:08.000 Sorry, continue.

02:17:08.000 You're funny.

02:17:09.000 You should be a comedian, bro.

02:17:10.000 You're funny, bro.

02:17:11.000 So, here's what I do.

02:17:12.000 I then, with that information, you know, I have their mother's maiden name, where they went to high school, if they were ever in the military, the whole thing, right?

02:17:19.000 Are they ever on social security disability?

02:17:21.000 Are they receiving any benefits?

02:17:22.000 I ask a whole...

02:17:22.000 I got about 17, 18 questions.

02:17:24.000 So, now what I do is...

02:17:27.000 I order their birth certificate, their social security card.

02:17:32.000 I register to vote in their name.

02:17:33.000 I order a copy of their high school transcripts.

02:17:35.000 I take that information.

02:17:36.000 I go to the local DMV. So if I interview you in South Carolina, I might go to North Carolina and get an ID, right?

02:17:41.000 Because I don't want them to pull up your picture.

02:17:43.000 So now I can go in.

02:17:44.000 I can get an ID. I can get a driver's license.

02:17:45.000 I can go get a passport.

02:17:46.000 I can travel as you.

02:17:49.000 Wow.

02:17:52.000 This is crazy, bro.

02:17:54.000 So...

02:17:55.000 So I, um, yeah, so I, I, I've got this, I got Gary Sullivan.

02:17:59.000 We, I buy two houses in his name.

02:18:01.000 I satisfy the loans on the houses, you know, and I put down money.

02:18:04.000 Of course I put down cause I have no credit.

02:18:05.000 So I have to put down like 20%, like put down 20, 30, same thing, secured credit cards in their name.

02:18:11.000 No, but I have no credit.

02:18:13.000 Oh, okay.

02:18:13.000 So I do that, but I don't have six or seven months.

02:18:16.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:18:16.000 So instead what I do is I go and I say, look, I need you to owner finance your house for me.

02:18:19.000 I'll give you 20% down.

02:18:20.000 And they go, okay.

02:18:21.000 People go, okay.

02:18:22.000 So I buy like a $250,000 house.

02:18:23.000 I give them 25 grand.

02:18:26.000 Well, I guess, which is really only 10%.

02:18:28.000 Yeah.

02:18:28.000 Owner finance, yeah.

02:18:29.000 So they basically become the bank.

02:18:31.000 So the owner finances the house himself.

02:18:33.000 Even though these people have mortgages on their house, we just do what's called a wraparound.

02:18:37.000 So I pay you and you continue to pay Bank of America or First Trust Bank or whoever.

02:18:41.000 So it's a wraparound mortgage.

02:18:43.000 You have a mortgage on the title and your original mortgage stays there too, but the deed's in my name.

02:18:48.000 Okay.

02:18:49.000 And so I buy several houses.

02:18:51.000 And they can do this without fucking up their loan?

02:18:53.000 As long as they make the payments.

02:18:55.000 They just don't tell them.

02:18:56.000 Yeah, they don't mention it.

02:18:57.000 They just don't mention it to the bank, obviously.

02:18:58.000 Yeah.

02:19:00.000 You probably shouldn't.

02:19:02.000 Yeah.

02:19:03.000 I was thinking in my head like that's got to be a violation of the loan terms.

02:19:05.000 Well, it is, but they never – it's the acceleration clause is supposed to be triggered, but they never do it because all the bank really cares about is they're like, look – Just pay us.

02:19:16.000 You transfer the loan.

02:19:18.000 We could accelerate it, but you're paying.

02:19:20.000 Yeah.

02:19:20.000 So there's no reason for us to do that.

02:19:22.000 We just want to get paid.

02:19:23.000 Because don't they put each loan on the actual...

02:19:26.000 For example, the mortgagee, which bank is going to be?

02:19:29.000 Is it two banks or just...

02:19:30.000 Well, no.

02:19:31.000 There's no...

02:19:32.000 I'm not borrowing money from anybody.

02:19:36.000 He's owner financing it.

02:19:37.000 So I owe him $200,000.

02:19:39.000 Got it.

02:19:39.000 He happens to owe the bank $195,000.

02:19:42.000 So I... I put a down payment down.

02:19:45.000 10%.

02:19:46.000 I make payments of $2,000 a month to the owner, and then they pay their bank.

02:19:53.000 So you never take a loan out ever?

02:19:55.000 Never.

02:19:55.000 Not right now.

02:19:56.000 Not initially.

02:19:57.000 Because he's on the run.

02:19:58.000 I just want to get the house in the name of Gary Sullivan.

02:20:01.000 Got it.

02:20:02.000 I get the name of...

02:20:03.000 Basically, the owner becomes a bank and sells it to them, owner financing.

02:20:06.000 There we go.

02:20:06.000 Yeah.

02:20:07.000 So then, once that happens, I go downtown.

02:20:09.000 Once it's recorded, takes a week or two, I go downtown, and I satisfy those loans.

02:20:14.000 So now I own a $240,000, I forget how much it was, like $230,000 house.

02:20:21.000 For the audience, real quick, satisfaction basically means the loan is paid off.

02:20:24.000 It appears to be paid.

02:20:25.000 It's not really paid off.

02:20:26.000 Yeah, it's not really paid off, but satisfaction is basically the house is paid off.

02:20:30.000 Right, so if you borrow $200,000 from Bank of America, and let's say you pay off Bank of America, they mail a satisfaction of mortgage into public records, and it gets recorded.

02:20:43.000 So now it looks like in public records, you don't owe Bank of America any money because, of course, you don't.

02:20:48.000 But what I do is I just go in and file that document.

02:20:51.000 You still do owe Bank of America.

02:20:52.000 Bank of America doesn't know I filed it.

02:20:54.000 But when the title company comes down and they search the title, they see the satisfaction and they go, oh, there's no mortgage on here.

02:21:00.000 It's paid off.

02:21:01.000 And then now, whatever that house is worth, you can tap into that with a loan.

02:21:05.000 So now I have a house that's worth $230,000.

02:21:08.000 Refinance.

02:21:09.000 Exactly.

02:21:09.000 Right, which I do six times.

02:21:12.000 Six times?

02:21:13.000 So I refinance the house six different times at the same time.

02:21:16.000 There's two houses, by the way.

02:21:17.000 There's another house that I bought for $101.

02:21:18.000 How were you able to do that without them running your credit and figuring out that you're doing refines at other places?

02:21:23.000 Or this is before, this is 2004.

02:21:24.000 They can run my credit.

02:21:26.000 But how do they not know that you're running...

02:21:28.000 Because you said you're refinancing it with multiple companies at the same time, right?

02:21:32.000 So if I borrow a mortgage on Monday, when do you think it shows up on my credit?

02:21:37.000 It might show up for 45 days.

02:21:39.000 It might be a month, 45 days.

02:21:41.000 It might be 60 days.

02:21:41.000 Not only that, it's only going to be one ding because it's one run on all.

02:21:44.000 And not just that, I own a piece of property worth $230,000.

02:21:48.000 These people would be like, listen, we can't lend you $230,000.

02:21:50.000 We can only lend you $190,000.

02:21:53.000 I go, oh!

02:21:54.000 Yeah.

02:21:55.000 And the interest rate's really high.

02:21:57.000 It's going to be like 8%. 0.98

02:21:58.000 Oh, darn it. 0.93

02:22:00.000 Well, since I'm not going to make any of those payments and I'm going to borrow five other mortgages and borrow $900,000. 0.99

02:22:06.000 So you literally would borrow.

02:22:08.000 And then again, this is before 2008, right?

02:22:10.000 So it's like you were able to go to all these different banks, get a refinance, and then they would all give you the same loan on the same house.

02:22:16.000 This still works, by the way.

02:22:17.000 Wow.

02:22:18.000 It absolutely still works.

02:22:19.000 I work with a company called Home Title Lock that monitors people's titles to keep people from me doing this.

02:22:29.000 And it happens all the time.

02:22:31.000 You're probably one of the best consultants for that, bro.

02:22:35.000 Wait a minute.

02:22:38.000 So this happens even now?

02:22:39.000 Oh, yeah.

02:22:40.000 Yeah.

02:22:41.000 Listen, the only thing that's really changed is that now they order a lot more 4506s.

02:22:47.000 So they check your income documents a lot more now than they ever did before.

02:22:53.000 With the government, with the IRS. They actually file a 4506 and they get a copy of your stuff from the 4506.

02:22:59.000 So you can't walk in and say, hey, my W-2 last year was $95,000 because they'll file a 4506 and they'll come back and they'll be like, you didn't even have a job last year.

02:23:07.000 So what if someone stole your identity and did this to you?

02:23:10.000 How would you stop or, I guess, prevent it from happening or you can't?

02:23:14.000 Let's say you were the person that was taken advantage of.

02:23:17.000 How would you stop it from happening?

02:23:19.000 Well, I mean, most people have notifications on their credit now, right?

02:23:23.000 Right.

02:23:24.000 But keep in mind, too, I'm not really stealing people's identities.

02:23:27.000 I'm making synthetic identities.

02:23:29.000 Or a homeless person building their...

02:23:31.000 Like, you know, Gary Sullivan is not being notified.

02:23:35.000 Yeah, you're right.

02:23:35.000 He doesn't have anything.

02:23:36.000 They don't even have cell phones back then.

02:23:38.000 Yeah.

02:23:38.000 Right?

02:23:39.000 Like, there's no Obama phones.

02:23:40.000 Yeah.

02:23:41.000 You know?

02:23:41.000 So, what ends up happening is...

02:23:44.000 I satisfy those loans.

02:23:46.000 Yeah, sorry.

02:23:46.000 So you get six refinances after you satisfy this loan.

02:23:49.000 I borrow $1.3 million on those.

02:23:51.000 On that property.

02:23:52.000 And I open like 12 bank accounts, right?

02:23:55.000 In various names.

02:23:56.000 Because you can really only open about three accounts in one person's name before they start asking questions.

02:24:00.000 So I've got some of them are corporations I've opened, multiple bank accounts.

02:24:03.000 Some are just different people.

02:24:04.000 And I deposit that money into those accounts and I start pulling it out.

02:24:07.000 And I get like $600,000.

02:24:09.000 And then one day I go into a bank.

02:24:11.000 He's like, should I say this part?

02:24:18.000 You guys are so bad. 0.95

02:24:19.000 You're so judgmental. 0.93

02:24:21.000 This one always makes me laugh.

02:24:23.000 We don't judge you, bro.

02:24:23.000 We don't judge you at all, man.

02:24:24.000 So I'm going to tell you something.

02:24:26.000 You're good with us.

02:24:27.000 Stop.

02:24:27.000 I'm going to tell you something.

02:24:29.000 For the sake of your audience, not you two.

02:24:31.000 Well, you're okay.

02:24:33.000 You and this guy.

02:24:35.000 Because I'm black?

02:24:37.000 Listen, the faces, the I'm talking and he's staring at the screen and he'll be like...

02:24:44.000 I'm like, so, okay, so at one point, I refinanced the house several times, right?

02:24:51.000 So I'm borrowing money on the house again.

02:24:54.000 So I've satisfied a bunch of loans on the house.

02:24:58.000 And this is also in the name Gary Sullivan.

02:25:01.000 So I'd open up a bunch of names, a bunch of corporations in Gary Sullivan's name using an attorney.

02:25:06.000 And so I'm now...

02:25:11.000 I'm now, I've refinanced this house, this one house.

02:25:14.000 This is a smaller house.

02:25:15.000 It's like $110,000 house.

02:25:16.000 So I've got maybe a $100,000 loan on it.

02:25:20.000 And I've got maybe three or four of them.

02:25:22.000 And one of the lenders, a lawyer with one of the lenders calls me.

02:25:27.000 Hey, is this Gary Sullivan?

02:25:29.000 And he was with Washington Mutual.

02:25:31.000 And he goes, this is whatever.

02:25:33.000 This is Brad from Washington Mutual.

02:25:36.000 I'm like, okay.

02:25:37.000 And I'm like, yeah, what's up?

02:25:38.000 He said, listen, we have a first mortgage on your property.

02:25:42.000 I'm like, okay.

02:25:43.000 He said, unfortunately, it appears that we don't have a first mortgage.

02:25:47.000 He said, it turns out that we're in second position.

02:25:50.000 Now, keep in mind, there's a couple behind them. 0.62

02:25:52.000 Yeah, of course.

02:25:53.000 And he said, and it appears that you borrowed multiple loans.

02:25:57.000 And I'm wondering, I'm hoping you have an explanation for this before we file something with the authorities.

02:26:01.000 And I go, okay, I said, listen, Brad, And I don't know that his name is Brad, but I go, listen, Brad, I said, listen, I said, have you contacted anybody yet?

02:26:10.000 You mentioned the authorities.

02:26:11.000 He goes, no.

02:26:12.000 I said, have you contacted anybody?

02:26:13.000 He goes, no.

02:26:14.000 I said, okay, listen, I'm going to go to my lawyers right now, and I'm going to have my lawyer call you, and I assure you we're going to figure out something.

02:26:21.000 There's no reason to contact anybody.

02:26:22.000 Can you give me about two hours?

02:26:23.000 He said, yeah, I'll be here.

02:26:25.000 That's fine.

02:26:25.000 I said, okay, cool.

02:26:26.000 I jump in my car.

02:26:27.000 I take off.

02:26:28.000 And I go straight to my lawyer.

02:26:30.000 I call my lawyer.

02:26:32.000 I say, listen, bro.

02:26:33.000 I said, I need a meeting with you.

02:26:36.000 And I explained what happened over the phone.

02:26:38.000 I said, look, I bought a house.

02:26:40.000 Cash.

02:26:41.000 Not true.

02:26:42.000 And I said, I refinanced that house several times.

02:26:44.000 He was okay.

02:26:45.000 And I said, Washington Mutual just found out that they're not in first position.

02:26:49.000 I borrowed like four or five mortgages, and they're all supposed to be first mortgages.

02:26:53.000 And Chad, the reason why that's a problem for them is that when it's time to get the money back, they're not going to be the first ones to get the money back.

02:26:58.000 So that's why they're pissed off.

02:27:00.000 Yeah, the only person that's probably going to ever recuperate any money at all is the guy in first position.

02:27:05.000 So that's fine.

02:27:07.000 So I go to my...

02:27:09.000 I'm a corporate attorney, and I walk in.

02:27:10.000 He said, listen, we're in the conference room.

02:27:12.000 I set up a meeting with my partner.

02:27:14.000 He does criminal law.

02:27:16.000 I said, okay.

02:27:16.000 So we walk in there.

02:27:17.000 We sit down.

02:27:18.000 And he says, okay, Gary, tell me what happened.

02:27:20.000 I tell him exactly what happened.

02:27:21.000 He goes, okay.

02:27:23.000 And he said...

02:27:25.000 Okay, so this is a creative financing issue, right?

02:27:29.000 And I went, you know, of course I'm thinking, well, pretty sure the FBI and Secret Service aren't chasing me for creative financing, but that's fine.

02:27:35.000 They don't know this, right?

02:27:36.000 Yeah, they don't know anything.

02:27:37.000 I mean, they're calling you Gary, so that's what...

02:27:39.000 Right, I'm like, okay.

02:27:40.000 I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:27:40.000 I said, yeah.

02:27:41.000 I said, yeah, okay.

02:27:42.000 I said, sure, whatever.

02:27:43.000 And I said, whatever.

02:27:44.000 I need it.

02:27:44.000 He goes, do you still have the money?

02:27:45.000 I said, I can pay them off.

02:27:46.000 Yes, I can.

02:27:47.000 He goes, okay.

02:27:48.000 And I said, and did he already say he wasn't going to contact him?

02:27:50.000 He said, he said he just wants the money.

02:27:52.000 I said, so call him up.

02:27:53.000 Get him to sign something.

02:27:54.000 Agree to pay the money.

02:27:54.000 I'll get the money.

02:27:55.000 I'll pay him.

02:27:56.000 He goes, okay, okay, cool.

02:27:57.000 And he says, all right.

02:27:59.000 So he calls the guy, the lawyer, and he talks to him.

02:28:03.000 And the lawyer says, if you can just give us the money.

02:28:06.000 I remember, too, they wanted the points and stuff.

02:28:08.000 They're like, it's $104,000.

02:28:11.000 And he's like, well, he only borrowed $100,000.

02:28:13.000 He's like, yeah, but we also have points.

02:28:15.000 We had prepared to sell the loan.

02:28:17.000 We have an underwriting fee.

02:28:18.000 We have this.

02:28:18.000 He said, well, I think that's unreasonable.

02:28:20.000 I'm like, the fuck? 1.00

02:28:22.000 I'm like, what are you doing? 1.00

02:28:24.000 I want this done.

02:28:26.000 He's like, okay, okay.

02:28:27.000 So he agrees to have him to pay him off.

02:28:29.000 He goes, okay, fine.

02:28:30.000 And he says, and so I remember he said, I said, I can go get the loan.

02:28:36.000 And I remember the guy wanted me to go to a Washington...

02:28:38.000 He goes, go get the cashier's check and bring it to a Washington Mutual.

02:28:42.000 Yeah.

02:28:42.000 And I was like, I'm not.

02:28:43.000 Hell no.

02:28:43.000 It wasn't...

02:28:44.000 It was Washington Mutual.

02:28:46.000 And he goes, yeah, bring it to Washington Mutual. 0.98

02:28:47.000 I said, I'm not fucking doing that. 0.95

02:28:49.000 I'll bring you a cashier's check. 0.99

02:28:50.000 I'm not going into a Washington Mutual.

02:28:52.000 Like, what am I, Travis?

02:28:54.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:28:55.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:28:55.000 Are you going to arrest my Orange County like a retard? 0.98

02:28:57.000 Yeah. 0.56

02:28:58.000 So I'm sitting there talking to the two of them, and he says, okay, so you have the money?

02:29:03.000 I said, yeah, yeah.

02:29:04.000 And he goes, okay.

02:29:05.000 He said, well, Gary, we have a problem.

02:29:07.000 And I said, what's that?

02:29:08.000 And he said, I mean, what happens if these other lenders realize what's going on?

02:29:17.000 And I said, oh, he's like, do you have the money?

02:29:21.000 Do you intend to pay them back?

02:29:22.000 I said, no, no.

02:29:23.000 And he goes, well, what if they find out?

02:29:25.000 And I went, well, then I leave town.

02:29:27.000 Like that, and he goes, and that's what they did.

02:29:29.000 Both lawyers were, Gary, Gary, they said, you can't just leave town.

02:29:34.000 It's the FBI. Like, they know your name, your social security number.

02:29:37.000 They'll find you.

02:29:38.000 And I go, you're assuming my name's Gary Sullivan.

02:29:40.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:29:41.000 And the guy, I shit you not. 0.99

02:29:43.000 You know how you hear people say, like, the guy turned white? 0.99

02:29:45.000 Yeah.

02:29:45.000 That dude turned white.

02:29:47.000 The lawyer?

02:29:47.000 The lawyer was like, just the blood drained from his face, both of them.

02:29:51.000 And he sat there, and they look at each other, and he goes, well, um...

02:29:56.000 We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

02:29:58.000 I said, exactly.

02:29:59.000 My current situation...

02:30:00.000 I said, my current problem is paying these people off.

02:30:02.000 Let me go get the money.

02:30:03.000 I'll bring it back.

02:30:05.000 Write up the agreement.

02:30:05.000 I said, by the time you get back, I'll have it.

02:30:07.000 I'll have the cashier's check.

02:30:08.000 He goes, okay.

02:30:08.000 I go.

02:30:09.000 I get the cashier's check.

02:30:10.000 I come back.

02:30:11.000 I give it to him.

02:30:12.000 We've got to sign an agreement.

02:30:13.000 I sign it.

02:30:14.000 This is back when they had fax machines. 1.00

02:30:16.000 Like, they're faxing shit. 0.99

02:30:17.000 He makes a copy of the check. 1.00

02:30:18.000 He faxes.

02:30:19.000 Stop.

02:30:21.000 So...

02:30:22.000 So, yeah, so I get the whole thing and I leave.

02:30:26.000 So then I'm still pulling money out, right?

02:30:28.000 Yeah.

02:30:29.000 I pull money out of the bank.

02:30:31.000 I've got like $600,000 at this point.

02:30:33.000 I end up going into a Washington – no, to a – Wachovia! 0.88

02:30:41.000 They still have Wachovias? 1.00

02:30:42.000 Do they still have those?

02:30:44.000 That's who else Fargo today. 1.00

02:30:45.000 I put all these fuckers out of business. 1.00

02:30:46.000 I've outlived all these things. 0.99

02:30:47.000 And that's why Mark the Mutual is chased today.

02:30:50.000 So I'm just curious, bro.

02:30:52.000 How are they not able to find you, the FBI? He's getting there.

02:30:54.000 I'm getting there.

02:30:55.000 I'll tell you this one story.

02:30:56.000 I'll wrap it up.

02:30:57.000 But how long has it been?

02:30:58.000 How old are you?

02:30:59.000 We're in 2005 now.

02:31:00.000 No, no, no.

02:31:01.000 We're in 04 still.

02:31:01.000 No, we're in 2005.

02:31:02.000 Early 2005.

02:31:04.000 Wachovia has been doing this for about four years now.

02:31:06.000 So, at one point, I go into the bank to pull out, like, whatever.

02:31:10.000 I don't know what it was.

02:31:11.000 Eight grand?

02:31:12.000 Walk up to the thing.

02:31:13.000 Pull up eight grand.

02:31:14.000 So, here's where it happened.

02:31:15.000 I had...

02:31:16.000 Well, you put...

02:31:16.000 Well, hold on.

02:31:17.000 We're going back.

02:31:17.000 You paid these guys off the 100K. Oh, I paid them.

02:31:20.000 They're done.

02:31:20.000 Okay.

02:31:21.000 Lawyers still...

02:31:22.000 What I thought was funny was the guy...

02:31:24.000 When I said, you're assuming my name's Gary Sullivan.

02:31:26.000 Like, they just...

02:31:27.000 Like, I remember thinking, like, these guys have never met anyone like me.

02:31:29.000 So, Gary...

02:31:30.000 Sorry, Matt.

02:31:32.000 Oh, I take all your money on the street. 0.99

02:31:35.000 I'm just kidding.

02:31:39.000 So, at any point, did you think maybe it's time to just get out of Dodge and, like, leave?

02:31:43.000 Yeah, but I still only have, what, $600,000?

02:31:46.000 $700,000?

02:31:47.000 That's a lot of money elsewhere in, I don't know, India or maybe, like, I don't know, somewhere.

02:31:51.000 Valley?

02:31:52.000 Okay, so the problem is, this is the problem with all these guys.

02:31:56.000 They're going to get out.

02:31:56.000 They're going to get out, right?

02:31:57.000 Yeah.

02:31:57.000 The problem is, you've no idea how emboldened you become every time you get over on somebody.

02:32:03.000 You feel untouchable.

02:32:04.000 Then you go, oh.

02:32:05.000 Listen, I've said this many times, and there's just no other way to explain this.

02:32:11.000 You can't even describe the feeling you get walking into a bank, giving them a fake ID, fake W-2s, pay stubs, fake documents, and then they cut you a check for $250,000, and they thank you for ripping them off.

02:32:25.000 And you walk out and you feel like 007.

02:32:27.000 You're just untouchable.

02:32:29.000 I've got passports issued by the State Department.

02:32:32.000 I'm walking through Customs.

02:32:34.000 You know, in and out, you know, boom, you know, they're saying, oh, hey, you know, welcome back to the United States.

02:32:40.000 You know, oh, business or pleasure.

02:32:42.000 You know, I'm like, you know, so you feel everybody's calling you, hey, Mr.

02:32:47.000 Eckert, you know, hey, Mr.

02:32:48.000 Johnson, hey, Mr.

02:32:50.000 So-and-so.

02:32:50.000 You go to the Ritz and everybody at the Ritz is calling you like Michael Eckert.

02:32:54.000 His name's not Michael Eckert.

02:32:56.000 What do you do?

02:32:56.000 But you know how in the Ritz, they call you that.

02:32:58.000 Of course, of course.

02:32:59.000 So you're just like, like, it feels amazing.

02:33:02.000 Amazing.

02:33:02.000 You know?

02:33:03.000 Like, and I'm not thinking I'm gonna get caught, because every time I do get caught, I talk myself out of it.

02:33:08.000 So I'm in the bank, I'm cash, so I had borrowed, like, I had applied for, let's say, six or seven mortgages on this one house.

02:33:14.000 I closed a bunch of them.

02:33:16.000 One woman from BB&T Bank went on vacation.

02:33:19.000 She never ordered the title work.

02:33:22.000 So an abstractor goes down, used to be, they don't do this anymore.

02:33:25.000 They would go downtown and they'd go through public records and they'd look at the title.

02:33:29.000 An abstractor?

02:33:29.000 Like an actuary?

02:33:34.000 No, like an abstractor.

02:33:35.000 An actuary is the person who crunches numbers.

02:33:37.000 An abstractor is someone who researches title work.

02:33:40.000 So this person goes downtown, they search the title.

02:33:43.000 Well, BB&T Bank, the loan officer went on vacation for a week or two, and when she came back, she then ordered the title work.

02:33:53.000 So I'd already closed like five loans.

02:33:56.000 Oh.

02:33:57.000 So this woman goes downtown and sees... 0.98

02:34:00.000 And she only saw three that had been recorded.

02:34:02.000 The other ones are still being mailed.

02:34:03.000 You know, because they close them and they mail them in.

02:34:05.000 Yeah.

02:34:05.000 So she sees three loans have been closed and she knows right away something's wrong.

02:34:09.000 Yeah.

02:34:10.000 These are all like $190, $190, $190.

02:34:12.000 Like, these are all first mortgages. 0.97

02:34:13.000 How the fuck did this happen when she was there? 0.98

02:34:15.000 Right. 0.99

02:34:15.000 And this person, I'm here searching for a first mortgage. 0.99

02:34:18.000 Yeah.

02:34:18.000 Something's wrong.

02:34:19.000 Yeah.

02:34:19.000 So...

02:34:20.000 They immediately...

02:34:21.000 And one of those loans was with Wachovia Bank.

02:34:24.000 So when I go into Wachovia Bank...

02:34:26.000 Wells Fargo.

02:34:27.000 I'm sorry, Wells Fargo...

02:34:28.000 No.

02:34:29.000 No, Wachovia. 0.66

02:34:30.000 That's today's Wells Fargo.

02:34:31.000 Today's name, I believe.

02:34:33.000 That's what Wells Fargo's old name was.

02:34:35.000 Just like Washington Mutual was now Chase.

02:34:38.000 Today.

02:34:38.000 Super confusing.

02:34:39.000 Okay, so I go into Wachovia to pull money out, and I get out, whatever, $6,000, and I'm waiting for the woman to, she has to call in, because it's a new account, so if you ask for more than $3,000, they have to check.

02:34:52.000 But you can check.

02:34:53.000 The money's good.

02:34:54.000 So I'm waiting, and all of a sudden, a sheriff's deputy reaches over and grabs me by the arm, pulls me, and they handcuff me.

02:35:01.000 And I turn around and there's two massive looking guys.

02:35:06.000 Like, not like six foot two and skinny, like they look like linebackers.

02:35:11.000 And I'm like, and they go, you know, Mr.

02:35:15.000 Sullivan, we're detaining you.

02:35:18.000 They called you by your fake name?

02:35:21.000 Yeah, well, I was pulling money out in the fake account, and he has my ID. He took my ID. Well, that's a good thing they didn't know who you were yet.

02:35:27.000 Right.

02:35:28.000 So they bring me into the manager's office, sit me down, and they said, you know, we're waiting for the detective.

02:35:35.000 And I said, what's going on?

02:35:36.000 He said, well, all I knew was we're supposed to hold you, and we're waiting for a detective to come.

02:35:40.000 And I'm like, okay.

02:35:41.000 Is this North Carolina still?

02:35:43.000 No, South Carolina.

02:35:44.000 You're in South Carolina?

02:35:44.000 No, I'm living in North Carolina, but I'm doing the scam in South Carolina.

02:35:47.000 So I remember thinking...

02:35:48.000 Just state locals, no big deal, sheriffs, deputies.

02:35:51.000 That's how I felt.

02:35:52.000 I thought, okay, I actually thought maybe the FBI was showing up.

02:35:57.000 At that point in my life, I don't know the difference between an agent, an officer, a detective.

02:36:02.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:36:03.000 I don't know that.

02:36:04.000 You're thinking it's all the same.

02:36:04.000 Yeah.

02:36:05.000 So I'm waiting for FBI to show up, and this guy walks in.

02:36:08.000 He's probably in his late 20s, early 30s, and he walks in, and he says, hey, listen, Mr.

02:36:13.000 Sullivan, he said I'm agent whatever his name was from the Richland County Sheriff's Department, and he says, or police department, I forget.

02:36:21.000 He's like, we got, and he's in a suit and tie.

02:36:26.000 He could have been an FBI agent, but he wasn't.

02:36:28.000 But he said, we're investigating a complaint from Wachovia.

02:36:36.000 And he said, apparently you have three mortgages on your house.

02:36:38.000 And I go, is that illegal?

02:36:40.000 And he goes, you know, I don't know.

02:36:43.000 And I remember thinking, like, I'm walking out of here.

02:36:46.000 I'm walking out of here.

02:36:47.000 And then he sits down and he calls the guy from Wachowi on the phone, the head of their fraud department.

02:36:52.000 And he explains this guy's running what's called a shotgunning scam.

02:36:54.000 He closed these loans so quickly and is removing the money that we couldn't catch it.

02:36:59.000 So...

02:37:00.000 Over the next five minutes, I explained to him, and I'm going to, because it was a lot of back and forth, like he's throwing out things and I'm answering, I'm like this.

02:37:09.000 Okay, so literally, so they got you there detained, two sheriff's deputies are there, the detective, and he has this fraud investigator from the bank talking.

02:37:15.000 Who knows 100% what's going on.

02:37:16.000 Yeah, so the fraud investigator knows.

02:37:18.000 He's not wrong. 1.00

02:37:18.000 The detective is like, what the fuck? 1.00

02:37:20.000 He's like, yeah, they probably just got called, and okay, now this makes sense. 1.00

02:37:23.000 He doesn't understand what's happening.

02:37:24.000 So we're going back and forth.

02:37:26.000 Why is he pulling out so much money?

02:37:28.000 And I'm saying, because I work for a...

02:37:30.000 Well, actually, I had a...

02:37:31.000 Every single one of us questions.

02:37:33.000 At this point, it's not a construction company anymore because it's a new scam.

02:37:35.000 Now it's a labor company.

02:37:37.000 And I said, I'm a site manager for a labor company.

02:37:39.000 We have these guys that lay sod and do all kinds of stuff.

02:37:43.000 We drop them off and they get their checks cut.

02:37:45.000 And if they go to cash them, it's like 10%.

02:37:46.000 And I know the checks are good, so I just cash them for them.

02:37:50.000 And he's like, I don't know if that's illegal.

02:37:53.000 He's like, no, no, that's not illegal.

02:37:54.000 I'm like, oh, okay.

02:37:55.000 Like, you're a nice guy.

02:37:56.000 I know.

02:37:57.000 So, and then as we're talking, I remember at one point, he was calling me Mr.

02:38:01.000 Sullivan, Mr.

02:38:01.000 Sullivan, and I start calling- The fraud investigator on the speaker.

02:38:04.000 No, no.

02:38:05.000 The detective.

02:38:06.000 Okay, that's it.

02:38:06.000 And I start calling him by his first name, like Richard, and he starts calling me Gary.

02:38:11.000 So now we're Richard and Gary.

02:38:12.000 - Yeah. - We're good, we're good, like we're friends.

02:38:15.000 Yeah.

02:38:15.000 It's a friendly thing.

02:38:16.000 This guy.

02:38:17.000 This guy on the phone.

02:38:18.000 Who's this guy?

02:38:19.000 Where's he from?

02:38:19.000 Is he from California?

02:38:22.000 Is that where they're from?

02:38:26.000 You're very good at putting out information, I want to say temperature, and moving the conversation in a certain direction.

02:38:35.000 You're good at that.

02:38:36.000 Manipulation, I think that's how the prosecutor put it.

02:38:38.000 I don't want to say it, but okay.

02:38:39.000 I don't want to say it.

02:38:41.000 So we're going back and forth.

02:38:45.000 You're a South Carolina good old boy. 0.99

02:38:46.000 He's like, what the fuck are we talking about over here? 1.00

02:38:49.000 He's a drug dealer. 1.00

02:38:50.000 What the fuck? 1.00

02:38:50.000 You know what I'm saying? 1.00

02:38:51.000 They're like, what the fuck is this mortgage fraud? 0.99

02:38:53.000 You know what I'm saying? 0.99

02:38:53.000 Like, yeah. 0.99

02:38:54.000 So we're going back and forth, back and forth.

02:38:56.000 So at some point, so I'll sum up the conversation.

02:38:58.000 The conversation ends up being that I'm committing fraud.

02:39:03.000 Here's how I'm doing it.

02:39:04.000 And I sat there and he's like, these are all first mortgages.

02:39:07.000 And I'm like, they're not first mortgages.

02:39:09.000 Like, I read all those documents.

02:39:11.000 None of those said first mortgages.

02:39:12.000 No mortgage says first mortgage, by the way.

02:39:14.000 It's the placement that determines if it's a first or second or third mortgage.

02:39:17.000 So you can have a HELOC If it's the only loan on your property, that's a first mortgage.

02:39:23.000 It's a HELOC. You can borrow a second mortgage, pay off your first.

02:39:27.000 Guess what that second is now?

02:39:28.000 It's a first mortgage.

02:39:30.000 So I'm like, I read all those documents.

02:39:32.000 And he's like, well, what did you do?

02:39:34.000 And I said, well, I mean, I got a first mortgage from Wachovia.

02:39:36.000 I have to say that because he knows they have a first mortgage.

02:39:39.000 I got it from Wachovia.

02:39:40.000 I told the girl at Wachowi I was trying to borrow like half a million dollars because I want to flip properties.

02:39:44.000 And he goes, that's right.

02:39:45.000 You have another property.

02:39:46.000 I said, right.

02:39:47.000 I'm like, oh my God, he knows about the other property.

02:39:49.000 And I'm like, right.

02:39:50.000 I said, we're putting in a pool.

02:39:51.000 We're going to put on a roof.

02:39:52.000 I said, I'm adding an addition.

02:39:53.000 I said, I'm buying another property next week.

02:39:55.000 I'm trying to renovate that one and flip that one.

02:39:57.000 I'm like, it's not like I don't have the laborers.

02:40:00.000 And he's like, right.

02:40:02.000 He goes, okay.

02:40:03.000 And I said, so I got a first mortgage.

02:40:05.000 I said, I told her I needed more than just the money she was giving me out of the refi.

02:40:09.000 I needed like half a million dollars.

02:40:11.000 And she said, I got a friend who can give you a second mortgage.

02:40:14.000 She sent me to her friends, which was like, whatever, you know, Rock Loan.

02:40:18.000 I don't know what that, Rock Mortgage.

02:40:20.000 Okay, so I go there.

02:40:21.000 They gave me a second mortgage.

02:40:22.000 And I said, then they sent me, she sent me, she said, I can get you a HELOC. She sent me to SunTrust.

02:40:26.000 I got a SunTrust loan.

02:40:28.000 And I said, a HELOC was SunTrust.

02:40:29.000 I said, that's what those three mortgages are.

02:40:31.000 And this guy on the phone is going nuts.

02:40:34.000 That's not true.

02:40:35.000 Their first mortgage.

02:40:36.000 I've already spoken with them.

02:40:37.000 And so he's yelling and screaming.

02:40:40.000 And the guy looks at me, the detective looks at me, and I go, I said, bro, I said, what makes more sense?

02:40:46.000 I said, a guy that works for a labor company, and I'm, oh, by the way, by this point, I said, he said, you're not under arrest.

02:40:51.000 I go, great, could you take the handcuffs off?

02:40:53.000 I go, I really feel like I'm under arrest.

02:40:54.000 He goes, oh, yeah, yeah, take those off him.

02:40:56.000 So I have my hands free now.

02:40:57.000 So I reach in my pocket, I pull out my business card, and it says labor on demand.

02:41:01.000 It's got all the phone numbers you can call.

02:41:03.000 I've got a, what do they call it, an HQ that answers the phone.

02:41:07.000 They'll reroute it, the whole thing.

02:41:08.000 I got an address you can mail to.

02:41:10.000 I can rent an office, whatever.

02:41:12.000 So I hand him the card.

02:41:13.000 I said, what makes more sense?

02:41:15.000 A guy that works for a labor company just convinced three national banks, I said, to lend him half a million dollars, I said, or a couple of loan, I said, a few loan officers got together to make a, I said, to make a big loan broker fee.

02:41:27.000 I said, bro, I wouldn't know how to do this, I said, if I tried.

02:41:30.000 And he looked at me and he goes, listen, I don't think this guy would know how to do this if he tried. 0.99

02:41:35.000 And this guy's going fucking nuts. 0.98

02:41:37.000 Yeah, yeah, on the phone. 0.99

02:41:38.000 And then he screams, this was the icing on the cake.

02:41:42.000 It's a scam.

02:41:43.000 I'm telling you it's a scam.

02:41:44.000 He goes, look at his ID. It starts with 000.

02:41:47.000 It's a fake ID. And the detective says, listen, he said, he goes, it's a real, keep in mind, he's got, it's not on a speakerphone, it's like this.

02:41:58.000 So I can't, I kind of hear, but I can't hear.

02:42:01.000 You just hear yelling.

02:42:02.000 You don't know specifically what he's saying.

02:42:03.000 So then he says, no, he said, listen, he said, this is Gary Sullivan.

02:42:07.000 It's a real South Carolina ID. I ran him through NCIC. He said, this is Gary Sullivan.

02:42:16.000 And I went, and I went...

02:42:18.000 Well, yeah, because you had done the work with getting the social security numbers and everything else.

02:42:22.000 Yeah.

02:42:22.000 I have everything.

02:42:23.000 Yeah, it's real.

02:42:24.000 Yeah.

02:42:24.000 Now, Gary Sullivan, by the way, I would like to mention, had been arrested twice in Vegas for prostitution.

02:42:31.000 So the detective now thinks, the detective now thinks, I've been arrested twice for prostitution.

02:42:37.000 What?

02:42:38.000 So when he said...

02:42:40.000 Well, when you run NCIC, it gives you the criminal history.

02:42:41.000 Right.

02:42:42.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:42:42.000 So when he said NCIC, I thought, fuck. 1.00

02:42:46.000 So he says, it's Gary Sullivan. 0.99

02:42:48.000 And our IDs start with 000.

02:42:51.000 And I go, I look at him, I go, bro, come on, now I'm not Gary Sullivan?

02:42:54.000 I go, come on, what are we doing here?

02:42:56.000 And he goes, I know, Gary, I know.

02:42:58.000 And he said, listen, he said, I think, he tells the guy, he goes, I think you guys have a problem at the bank.

02:43:05.000 He loses it.

02:43:06.000 Actually, at one point, I remember he had to tell him, you need to lower your voice.

02:43:10.000 Calm down.

02:43:11.000 He says, I don't even know what to charge him with right now.

02:43:13.000 He said, I'm going to take him downtown.

02:43:15.000 I'm going to have him fill out a police report, and I'm going to talk to the district attorney, and I'll see if we can prosecute him.

02:43:23.000 He said, I don't even know what to do.

02:43:24.000 I have to talk to her.

02:43:25.000 I'm waiting for a call back.

02:43:27.000 Okay, fine.

02:43:28.000 Hang up the phone.

02:43:30.000 Leave, and I'll tell you this, I usually skip this part, but since I, so, as I'm leaving...

02:43:35.000 So I let you go.

02:43:35.000 Well, yeah, you're not under arrest, yeah.

02:43:37.000 He says that, well, he wants me to follow him back to the police station, which, of course, I say, no problem, I'll do that.

02:43:41.000 So he says, do you have your ID or your driver's license?

02:43:45.000 And I said, well, he goes, do you have a driver's license?

02:43:46.000 Do you only have an ID? I go, yeah.

02:43:49.000 He said, I do, and it's in Vegas.

02:43:51.000 I said, and I'm in Nevada.

02:43:53.000 Nevada, whatever.

02:43:54.000 I said, in Nevada, I have one.

02:43:55.000 And he goes, he said, is it valid?

02:43:57.000 I said, should be. 0.99

02:43:59.000 I fucking no idea. 1.00

02:44:00.000 This is a homeless prostitute. 1.00

02:44:02.000 I don't know. 0.96

02:44:04.000 And he goes, so the detective, I'm sorry, the deputy goes, I'll check.

02:44:09.000 Turns around, walks to his car.

02:44:12.000 We're waiting. 0.98

02:44:13.000 I fucking have no idea what's going on. 0.99

02:44:15.000 How'd you even know to say Nevada? 1.00

02:44:16.000 Because the prostitution thing? 1.00

02:44:17.000 Because I met him in Vegas.

02:44:19.000 Oh, okay.

02:44:20.000 I don't know if he's got an idea.

02:44:21.000 But you didn't know if this person had been arrested for prostitution?

02:44:24.000 Or you didn't know?

02:44:25.000 No, I did know.

02:44:25.000 When I surveyed him, one of the questions is, have you been arrested?

02:44:28.000 And he told me for prostitution.

02:44:30.000 Okay, so you knew. 0.99

02:44:30.000 And I was like, oh, okay, so you're, he is, I'm a prostitute. 0.99

02:44:34.000 He said, but it's not a felony here. 0.91

02:44:37.000 And I was like, oh, okay.

02:44:38.000 Wait, so he was selling his booty cheeks?

02:44:40.000 Yeah, when I showed up, when I showed up to survey these guys, look, you're driving through Vegas, there's two white guys, there's not a ton of white guys in my age group that are homeless, right?

02:44:53.000 So I see these two white guys sitting on a bench, and I'm like, boom, stop the car, I jump out, let me survey them, walk up, survey them, and during the course of surveying that guy, he says, I said, one of the questions, has he ever been arrested?

02:45:03.000 He goes, yeah, he said, for prostitution.

02:45:04.000 I remember I went, Do you mean solicitation?

02:45:07.000 And he goes, no, prostitution.

02:45:09.000 He said, I offered to blow an undercover cop for like 20 bucks.

02:45:11.000 And he said, and I went, oh.

02:45:14.000 I said, okay, yeah.

02:45:15.000 And I was like, okay.

02:45:16.000 So I just keep writing, whatever.

02:45:17.000 Here's your 20 bucks.

02:45:18.000 I'm good.

02:45:19.000 I get in my car with Becky and we take off.

02:45:23.000 But the point is, is now these guys, the one guy...

02:45:27.000 Takes the card.

02:45:28.000 Yeah.

02:45:28.000 You have to get guys in your age group so it would match up because you were using your real pictures and everything, getting social security numbers.

02:45:33.000 I'm getting their birth certificate.

02:45:34.000 Yeah, you're getting everything, yeah.

02:45:36.000 And so the ID that you had was legitimate.

02:45:38.000 It actually was.

02:45:39.000 Oh, it's legitimate.

02:45:39.000 I got it from South Carolina.

02:45:40.000 Yeah, that's why the cop was like, dude, it's him.

02:45:42.000 It's a legitimate ID. That's why he looked so bad.

02:45:44.000 That's why he looked like now you, like, if I didn't know if you were, if you didn't know what you were talking about before, now I know.

02:45:50.000 You just told me this is a fake ID. It's a fucking real ID. Yeah. 0.99

02:45:53.000 It's a real ID. You got a problem at the bank.

02:45:55.000 You guys are fucking up right now. 0.99

02:45:56.000 Yeah, that makes sense. 0.99

02:45:58.000 So, the cop comes back in.

02:46:00.000 That's the key, to have legit documents.

02:46:01.000 Oh, yeah.

02:46:02.000 I always transfer out my fake ones for legit as quick as possible.

02:46:05.000 Yeah.

02:46:06.000 Listen, I... You would use fraudulent backups, but everything was legit.

02:46:10.000 Okay.

02:46:10.000 Bro, this is kind of scary, bro.

02:46:12.000 Smart.

02:46:12.000 Does he go for the police in the feds?

02:46:14.000 Very smart, bro.

02:46:15.000 Very, very smart.

02:46:16.000 That's scary, bro.

02:46:17.000 Listen, just look at the judgment in this guy's face when I say this.

02:46:21.000 I one time stole a guy's identity.

02:46:23.000 And I illegally had his name changed.

02:46:28.000 What?

02:46:29.000 Yeah, you can do that too.

02:46:31.000 For 1500 bucks, I had the guy, remember I said Eckert, I had Michael Eckert's last name changed to Michael Johnson.

02:46:38.000 Nice.

02:46:39.000 Just to see if I wanted to see if I could do it.

02:46:40.000 Like, what's the process?

02:46:42.000 So you give $1,500 to an attorney.

02:46:44.000 You get to go through the whole process.

02:46:46.000 I saw how it was done.

02:46:47.000 I thought, okay, cool.

02:46:48.000 I've done it before.

02:46:48.000 Is it greed or ego, or is it both, that just drives people to go further to see what they can do?

02:46:54.000 I was just curious.

02:46:55.000 Okay.

02:46:55.000 I was super curious about that.

02:46:56.000 By that point, I used to always say, like, oh, it was greed.

02:47:00.000 Like, well, you know, I needed the money.

02:47:01.000 Okay, you needed the money.

02:47:03.000 But then you had $200,000.

02:47:06.000 And then that wasn't enough.

02:47:07.000 So then it was half a million, and then it was a million, and then it's two million, then it's three million. 0.99

02:47:12.000 And it's like, what the fuck are you doing, bro? 1.00

02:47:14.000 Why are you still fucking stealing money? 1.00

02:47:16.000 You don't need the money. 1.00

02:47:17.000 You keep telling me, oh, I need the money.

02:47:18.000 You don't need it anymore.

02:47:19.000 You could take three million dollars, invest it in real estate, and you'll be fine. 0.99

02:47:22.000 You can make fucking 30 grand a month. 0.97

02:47:24.000 What are you doing now? 0.99

02:47:25.000 Now it's just so easy.

02:47:27.000 And, you know, every time you do it, it's just such a rush.

02:47:31.000 And it's so amazing.

02:47:32.000 And that's so cliche to say. 0.99

02:47:33.000 But I don't know what else to say other than just fucking arrogance, you know? 0.99

02:47:38.000 You're being honest. 0.99

02:47:38.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:47:39.000 So, okay, so he says, so he's running your ID in the thing with Las Vegas.

02:47:45.000 He comes back.

02:47:45.000 He comes back and he says, yeah, he's got a, he has a Nevada driver's license.

02:47:50.000 And what's so funny is at some point when I say, yeah, I'm from Nevada, they all looked at each other and kind of like, So I had a feeling like all these fuckers thought I was a homeless prostitute. 1.00

02:48:02.000 They all think I was just like, fuck. 0.99

02:48:04.000 So anyway, when he comes back in and he says, yeah, he's got a valid driver's license. 1.00

02:48:10.000 And he says, okay.

02:48:11.000 He said, it's good.

02:48:12.000 He said, yeah, yeah, it's valid.

02:48:12.000 He goes, well, it says he's 5'10".

02:48:17.000 And they all kind of look at me and I go, fellas with a good pair of shoes.

02:48:21.000 And they all go, follow us, Gary.

02:48:25.000 I get in my car.

02:48:27.000 Because Matt's like 5'6".

02:48:31.000 That's why.

02:48:31.000 Yeah, I'm like 5'.

02:48:32.000 Like, there's no way.

02:48:33.000 How tall he is?

02:48:33.000 5'6".

02:48:34.000 Yeah.

02:48:35.000 He's like 5'6".

02:48:35.000 Listen, he's at least a foot taller than me.

02:48:38.000 I couldn't even stand next to him in the oven.

02:48:41.000 Dog! 0.71

02:48:41.000 Yeah, so like, yeah, this, yeah, five, six, yeah. 0.71

02:48:43.000 So there, yeah, yeah.

02:48:45.000 Good pair of shoes.

02:48:45.000 - Nope.

02:48:46.000 - Wow.

02:48:46.000 - Don't! - Yeah.

02:48:48.000 - Yeah! - Give it up Gary! - Yeah! - Give it up Gary! - Give it up Gary! - Give it up Gary! - Yeah, go ahead.

02:48:54.000 - They, listen, so they laughed about it, yeah.

02:48:56.000 You just said, hey, just get a good pair of shoes.

02:49:00.000 I get in my car, I fall on back to the police station.

02:49:03.000 I fall on back to the police station.

02:49:07.000 You should have worn some Dior's.

02:49:09.000 I go into the police department.

02:49:11.000 I fill out the police report.

02:49:13.000 He talks to his sergeant or whatever.

02:49:15.000 At some point, I was sitting and they had like cubicles.

02:49:18.000 And he's like, hey, he said, I can't leave you in my cubicle.

02:49:20.000 I have to talk to my lieutenant, get her to sign off.

02:49:22.000 He said, I can't leave you in the cubicle.

02:49:24.000 He said, do you mind waiting in the hallway?

02:49:26.000 I said, no problem.

02:49:26.000 I go in the hallway.

02:49:28.000 My Secret Service poster is in the hallway.

02:49:30.000 They got all these posters.

02:49:31.000 It was the only one that was in color.

02:49:34.000 Everything else was black and white.

02:49:35.000 They're all just copies of copies. 0.94

02:49:37.000 There's rapists. 1.00

02:49:39.000 There's fucking car thieves. 1.00

02:49:41.000 There's burglars. 1.00

02:49:42.000 And then mine is up there.

02:49:43.000 This is, I guess, a little bit of an in-the-weeds question, but I've got to ask because of my background.

02:49:47.000 So were you being investigated by both the FBI and Secret Service?

02:49:51.000 Because the first time you got jammed up, it was FBI, right?

02:49:54.000 In Tampa.

02:49:55.000 In Tampa.

02:49:55.000 So in Tampa, Orlando, Clearwater, that's all FBI's investigating.

02:50:00.000 Okay.

02:50:00.000 Secret Service is...

02:50:01.000 Got you in the Carolinas.

02:50:03.000 And Georgia.

02:50:04.000 And Georgia.

02:50:05.000 So that's how they're investigating.

02:50:06.000 That's where they're investigating.

02:50:07.000 Okay.

02:50:07.000 And keep in mind, neither one of them wants to give up jurisdiction.

02:50:10.000 Yeah.

02:50:10.000 So you basically had two...

02:50:12.000 Okay.

02:50:13.000 All right.

02:50:13.000 So you had two open cases on you in different districts.

02:50:17.000 I end up having four cases.

02:50:23.000 So I have Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and it ends up being Tennessee, because what happens is I go in there, I wait in the hallway, he comes to me, and he says, listen, he says...

02:50:37.000 Oh, going back to the story now.

02:50:38.000 Yeah, yeah, we're back.

02:50:38.000 So he goes, talks to his lieutenant, and then he comes back to you.

02:50:40.000 You're waiting out there, and you said your poster's on the wall.

02:50:42.000 Yeah.

02:50:43.000 Now, you know, he walks up behind me.

02:50:44.000 Did you freak out?

02:50:44.000 Why did you run out right then?

02:50:46.000 I've had people say that before.

02:50:48.000 You ever been in a police station?

02:50:49.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:50:50.000 Do you have any idea how many fucking doors are in a police station? 0.99

02:50:52.000 You don't walk through. 0.99

02:50:53.000 You have to punch in a code here.

02:50:54.000 To get in the elevator, you gotta punch in a code.

02:50:56.000 Punch in a code.

02:50:56.000 Like, I'm not walking out of this place.

02:50:57.000 So they brought you to a secured area.

02:50:58.000 Okay.

02:50:59.000 So there's no way. 1.00

02:51:00.000 Because trust me, I immediately thought, like, fuck. 1.00

02:51:03.000 Like, is there an exit? 1.00

02:51:04.000 I'm not getting out of here.

02:51:06.000 And did it have under your real name, Matt Cox?

02:51:08.000 Oh, it was Matt.

02:51:09.000 Listen, one time, the Secret Service, when I got caught, they told me that I had gone to a closing one time.

02:51:14.000 And I remember the closing because I remember the lawyer had come out Opened up the file and said, okay, I'm going to go ahead and he starts disclosing to me and he slides the document in front of me.

02:51:26.000 He looks at me and he goes, hold on one second.

02:51:29.000 This was also Gary Sullivan.

02:51:30.000 He goes, hold on a second, Mr.

02:51:31.000 Sullivan.

02:51:32.000 Closes the document, takes the file, which is my file.

02:51:36.000 So that's why I remembered.

02:51:37.000 I thought it was, I was like... 0.99

02:51:39.000 What the fuck is going on? 1.00

02:51:40.000 Walks in the back. 1.00

02:51:41.000 He had my Secret Service's Most Wanted poster in his thing.

02:51:45.000 But by that point, keep in mind, I've got hair grafts.

02:51:48.000 I've got a nose job.

02:51:50.000 Teeth done, yup.

02:51:51.000 I've got teeth, everything.

02:51:52.000 I'm in a shirt and tie.

02:51:53.000 If you look at my, if you were to pull up that image of me, I look insane.

02:51:58.000 I got my hair parted.

02:51:59.000 I'm super balding.

02:52:01.000 It's parted like, and I'm making this face in the picture like the Joker.

02:52:04.000 Like I'm like, heh.

02:52:06.000 Like it's crazy looking.

02:52:07.000 And so he sees it and he looks at it and he told the Secret Service later, he said, I recognize them, but when I got back here and I looked at it, this guy was wanted out of Georgia.

02:52:19.000 And this guy, he said, I looked at the mortgage application.

02:52:23.000 He had just moved from Florida.

02:52:26.000 And he'd worked for the same company for five years.

02:52:28.000 And this guy was just recently, like, this was a few months old.

02:52:31.000 He's like, so he couldn't have been the same guy.

02:52:33.000 Gotcha.

02:52:33.000 Okay.

02:52:34.000 I know that doesn't make sense.

02:52:35.000 So it worked out for you.

02:52:35.000 Because it also said identity theft.

02:52:36.000 All that work that you did, it helped you out.

02:52:38.000 Yeah, it did.

02:52:39.000 Okay.

02:52:39.000 So, you know, he goes back.

02:52:41.000 I signed the documents.

02:52:42.000 He cuts me a check for like $180,000.

02:52:43.000 Okay.

02:52:44.000 So he had his suspicions, but it didn't work out because you had altered your appearance.

02:52:47.000 Isn't that crazy?

02:52:47.000 We've seen before people alter their appearances and move to different countries.

02:52:52.000 Right?

02:52:52.000 Yeah, we have, yeah.

02:52:53.000 Yeah, we have, yeah.

02:52:54.000 So going back, okay, so you're there in the police station.

02:52:59.000 Right.

02:52:59.000 So he walks up to me.

02:53:01.000 He says, hey, Gary.

02:53:02.000 He said, we can go.

02:53:03.000 He walks me out.

02:53:04.000 I go to get my car.

02:53:07.000 Keep in mind...

02:53:10.000 Becky, when I left from the bank and went to the police station, she had called me over and over again.

02:53:17.000 She said, they just raised you to number one on the Secret Service's most wanted list.

02:53:22.000 And I have to explain to her, look, there's a cop behind me.

02:53:24.000 There's a cop in front of me.

02:53:25.000 I'm going to the police station.

02:53:26.000 I was just handcuffed.

02:53:28.000 I talked my way out of it.

02:53:29.000 She's like, get on the interstate, get on the interstate. 0.98

02:53:30.000 I'm like, I'm not getting on the interstate.

02:53:32.000 And what's funny is every time I would go into a bank, she would be like, what if you get arrested?

02:53:36.000 I'd say, if I get arrested, you go get me a lawyer.

02:53:39.000 I said, because I'm going to be arrested with a real identity, a real ID. And I said, they're not going to run – they'll take my prints, but they're not going to run them through APHIS because they used to charge – 20 years ago, they used to charge – Automated fingerprint identification system.

02:53:53.000 I'm surprised you know.

02:53:54.000 Okay, well, you know what?

02:53:55.000 You're a process.

02:53:55.000 You're going to know that.

02:53:56.000 You're a process.

02:53:57.000 You should know in my head like, how does he know about APHIS? Okay, sorry.

02:54:00.000 20 years ago, the system – it had been out for a little bit, maybe five or ten years.

02:54:04.000 But here's what they were doing with sheriff's departments and police stations.

02:54:08.000 They charged them for it.

02:54:09.000 So when you ran it, they charged you for it.

02:54:12.000 And so what they would do is they were only running people whose identities were in question.

02:54:17.000 My identity's not in question.

02:54:19.000 My name's Gary Sullivan, Michael Eckert, you know, anybody, you know, Walter Holcomb, whoever I am, that's the...

02:54:26.000 I got plenty of identities.

02:54:28.000 So I said, they will not run me through APHIS. I said, you get me a lawyer, you get me out on bond as quick as possible.

02:54:34.000 I said, I'll be arrested for something stupid like wire fraud or checks or grand theft auto. 0.97

02:54:42.000 I'm sorry, grand theft. 0.99

02:54:43.000 Larceny, some shit like that. 1.00

02:54:45.000 Larceny, something stupid. 1.00

02:54:47.000 So the key is to get out on bond as quickly as possible so that your fingerprints don't come back later on. 1.00

02:54:52.000 And take off.

02:54:52.000 Yeah.

02:54:53.000 Because it would take time.

02:54:55.000 Assuming they even paid for it.

02:54:56.000 Right.

02:54:56.000 Assuming they even, if it wasn't a question.

02:54:59.000 Now it's automated.

02:54:59.000 But that, I mean, yeah, this is what, 05?

02:55:01.000 So this makes sense.

02:55:01.000 And you know how, the only reason I knew that was because of that guy, Steve Sutton, had told me that.

02:55:05.000 Because he worked in the prison.

02:55:07.000 I mean, he worked in the jail.

02:55:08.000 Steve Sutton.

02:55:08.000 Steve Sutton was the sheriff's deputy that told me to take off.

02:55:11.000 Okay.

02:55:12.000 He had told me before.

02:55:13.000 Like, he would tell me every once in a while that they let somebody out.

02:55:16.000 Yeah.

02:55:16.000 That was actually wanted because they didn't want to pay the fee and they found out later that he was someone else.

02:55:21.000 Exactly.

02:55:21.000 And I was like, what, they don't run them?

02:55:23.000 He's like, nah, because the guy had a driver's license that had been issued.

02:55:25.000 He was some good information.

02:55:27.000 Wow.

02:55:28.000 He gave me some good stuff.

02:55:29.000 Where's he now?

02:55:30.000 Steve?

02:55:31.000 Yeah.

02:55:33.000 I don't know.

02:55:33.000 He's still a deputy.

02:55:34.000 I'm shocked.

02:55:35.000 No, he's not a deputy.

02:55:36.000 He was a deputy for about four or five years.

02:55:38.000 He quit.

02:55:39.000 Didn't get fired.

02:55:40.000 Oh, no.

02:55:41.000 You know what?

02:55:41.000 He did get fired.

02:55:41.000 You know why?

02:55:42.000 Because I looked it up.

02:55:45.000 I actually did a Freedom of Information Act on him.

02:55:48.000 He was caught multiple times with dip for tobacco.

02:55:54.000 Chewing tobacco, yeah.

02:55:55.000 So he had tobacco in the jail.

02:55:58.000 You're not allowed to have tobacco in a jail.

02:56:01.000 Oh, he was, well, okay, yeah.

02:56:02.000 If he's a sheriff's deputy, yeah, so he probably was doing on the road and going to the jails as well.

02:56:06.000 He was doing both.

02:56:07.000 Okay.

02:56:07.000 It's weird in Florida here.

02:56:08.000 They do both.

02:56:09.000 So, like, if you're a sheriff's deputy, you can either be on the road or you can be in the jail.

02:56:12.000 If you're in the jail, obviously, you've got stricter rules.

02:56:14.000 You can't be on the jail.

02:56:15.000 Or you could get in trouble and go back to the jail.

02:56:17.000 Yeah, because that's considered contraband.

02:56:18.000 Typically, they make you work in the jail for a couple years.

02:56:20.000 Like, when you first get there, sometimes some counties will make you work, like, hey, you've got to work two years in the jail.

02:56:25.000 You know, it's a gradual thing.

02:56:27.000 That tells me he got in trouble or he might have been under investigation.

02:56:30.000 That's why they put him back in jail.

02:56:31.000 But he didn't go...

02:56:32.000 He is on my indictment.

02:56:33.000 He's his initials, but he's unnamed.

02:56:35.000 He never got in trouble.

02:56:35.000 That's probably why he...

02:56:36.000 The point is that...

02:56:37.000 So when I get back in my car, this deputy lets me get in my car.

02:56:40.000 I'm sorry, deputy.

02:56:42.000 The detective lets me get in my car.

02:56:45.000 Becky's screaming and the phone's blowing up.

02:56:47.000 I pick up the phone and I'm like, and I remember too, because on the way there, I was like, listen, don't worry about it.

02:56:53.000 If I get arrested, get me out on...

02:56:55.000 She goes, I'm not getting you out on bond.

02:56:57.000 I'm not going to risk everything I've got.

02:57:00.000 To get you out of my...

02:57:01.000 She's sitting on $600,000 or $700,000. 0.85

02:57:03.000 Yeah.

02:57:03.000 I'm not giving...

02:57:04.000 I'm not going to risk everything.

02:57:07.000 I'll leave.

02:57:08.000 She's like, get on the interstate. 0.95

02:57:09.000 I can't get on the interstate.

02:57:10.000 There's two cops behind me.

02:57:11.000 She's like, run! 1.00

02:57:11.000 I'm like, I can't run. 1.00

02:57:13.000 I'm not a...

02:57:14.000 They followed you out?

02:57:15.000 No, this was when I was on my way to the police station.

02:57:20.000 She had called.

02:57:20.000 Oh, before, prior.

02:57:21.000 Okay, okay.

02:57:22.000 But you got released.

02:57:23.000 Typically, I like to say I'm better at telling the story when I'm not being constantly berated with questions.

02:57:31.000 Sorry.

02:57:31.000 That's why I'm going back and forth to explain it.

02:57:34.000 The bottom line is this.

02:57:36.000 I get in my car.

02:57:38.000 I grab the phone.

02:57:40.000 Remember, she said, I'm not getting you out. 0.99

02:57:41.000 The first thing I say is, you fucking Because you're going to leave me in there. 0.99

02:57:46.000 And she's like, oh, I'm in my car right now. 1.00

02:57:49.000 I'm on my way to get... 1.00

02:57:49.000 I go, bullshit. 1.00

02:57:50.000 You're lying. 1.00

02:57:51.000 Come on.

02:57:52.000 You're more like you're packing your stuff to leave.

02:57:55.000 And so I scream at her because she was...

02:57:56.000 At this point, she had relocated to Texas.

02:58:00.000 Yeah, because we were wrapping up the scam.

02:58:03.000 I mean, we've got $600,000 or $700,000.

02:58:05.000 So I got another week and I'll have the rest of the money.

02:58:08.000 But now, obviously, I can't.

02:58:09.000 So I end up going to two more banks, get a little bit of money out.

02:58:12.000 A third bank, they recognize me and go to call the police.

02:58:15.000 So I know something's wrong.

02:58:16.000 So I immediately jump in my car.

02:58:17.000 I get on the interstate.

02:58:18.000 I drive back to Charlotte.

02:58:24.000 I'm terrified now because, obviously, I know they're putting it together.

02:58:28.000 They're gonna put the South Carolina scam together very quickly.

02:58:31.000 It's unraveling.

02:58:32.000 I'm sure they're gonna figure this out.

02:58:34.000 And they're gonna know, even if they don't know who I am, they're gonna figure out that it's a scam.

02:58:39.000 They're gonna put it together like this is a scam.

02:58:42.000 Once they start looking into pulling W-2s, pay stubs, making phone calls, I'm not answering calls anymore.

02:58:48.000 It's gonna unravel.

02:58:50.000 So I take the little bit of money I have, maybe 30, 40 grand, Becky's got all the money.

02:58:55.000 She's already in Houston.

02:58:57.000 I pack up everything in a U-Haul van.

02:59:00.000 I drive to Houston.

02:59:01.000 This is after the detectives released you, right?

02:59:03.000 After they released me.

02:59:04.000 So I drive to Houston.

02:59:06.000 We unload the U-Haul van, including all of the alternate identities that I have, because we figure we're just going to lay low for another couple months before we try and do some kind of a scam, whatever.

02:59:16.000 Let's just put everything in the storage unit.

02:59:20.000 We go on our way back to the apartment that she's rented.

02:59:24.000 In the middle of downtown Houston, some big high-rise.

02:59:27.000 We're driving back.

02:59:28.000 We get into a huge argument.

02:59:30.000 By the way, Becky is bipolar.

02:59:32.000 I've already gotten her on—by this point, I've gotten her on Zoloft.

02:59:36.000 She won't take it.

02:59:37.000 She takes it for three months.

02:59:38.000 She thinks she's okay.

02:59:39.000 Then she stops taking it again.

02:59:42.000 And this has happened over and over again.

02:59:43.000 She's had the cops call me multiple times.

02:59:45.000 Oh, yeah.

02:59:46.000 Two o'clock in the morning, she comes home drunk from a bar.

02:59:49.000 Like, I'm not even sleeping with her.

02:59:50.000 I don't want anything.

02:59:51.000 I got her her own apartment.

02:59:52.000 She comes over. 1.00

02:59:53.000 Hey, tries to have sex with me. 0.99

02:59:55.000 I'm like, look, I want you to date someone else. 1.00

02:59:57.000 I want to get rid of you. 0.82

02:59:58.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:59:59.000 And, you know, and I won't have sex with her. 1.00

03:00:00.000 She starts screaming. 0.99

03:00:01.000 What?

03:00:02.000 I'm not good enough for you.

03:00:03.000 I have to jump up, grab a bag, and run out of the apartment because I know the cops are coming.

03:00:08.000 If the cops show up for a domestic violence call in Charlotte, North Carolina at that time, somebody has to go to jail.

03:00:13.000 Or Texas.

03:00:14.000 Okay.

03:00:14.000 So, yeah.

03:00:15.000 Well, I don't know about Texas.

03:00:16.000 Because you were Texas at this point, right?

03:00:17.000 No, no.

03:00:18.000 I'm saying this has been happening.

03:00:19.000 Oh, okay.

03:00:20.000 Been happening. 0.97

03:00:20.000 She's crazy. 0.97

03:00:21.000 What I'm trying to establish is she's insane. 1.00

03:00:22.000 Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. 0.95

03:00:23.000 So we drive all the way back. 1.00

03:00:24.000 I drive to Texas, to Houston, put my shit up. 0.99

03:00:28.000 Getting to a huge argument with her. 1.00

03:00:31.000 She's got all the money. 1.00

03:00:33.000 All my stuff is now in a storage unit.

03:00:36.000 I have an empty U-Haul van.

03:00:38.000 We get into an argument over, and I said, look, I'm done.

03:00:42.000 I just want to split the money up. 0.99

03:00:44.000 She makes the argument, which you're going to say I'm stupid and crazy and everything else, and I get it, that she should just keep the money. 0.98

03:00:52.000 She's like, because you can go off and do this again. 0.99

03:00:54.000 I can't.

03:00:56.000 I don't know how to do it.

03:00:57.000 I can't do this.

03:00:58.000 I can't pull this off.

03:00:59.000 I don't know everything that you know.

03:01:00.000 I can't do it.

03:01:02.000 And so we argue back and forth, and it was just a hilarious argument.

03:01:06.000 I'm not going to get into the whole thing. 0.99

03:01:07.000 But, you know, because I'm, anyway, she's like, oh, at one point I'm like, I'll just take that shit. 0.99

03:01:12.000 I said, I'll just take all the money. 0.99

03:01:13.000 And she goes, she goes, she said, I'll just take it and leave.

03:01:17.000 She goes, in what?

03:01:18.000 She goes, that U-Haul van? 0.99

03:01:19.000 She goes, that they're going to be looking for?

03:01:21.000 She's like, I'll call the cops. 0.99

03:01:23.000 And I remember I said, I take all the fucking money. 0.99

03:01:24.000 I don't need that U-Haul van. 0.99

03:01:26.000 And she's like, you'll never make it out of this building.

03:01:28.000 And I'm sitting there like, so we go back and forth, back and forth.

03:01:31.000 And I'm like, what do you think is fair?

03:01:32.000 And she says $100,000.

03:01:34.000 And I thought about it and I went, okay.

03:01:37.000 So I leave her with like $600,000.

03:01:39.000 I take a hundred grand.

03:01:40.000 I take a hundred grand.

03:01:41.000 I get into the U-Haul van.

03:01:43.000 I take off.

03:01:43.000 I actually called the FBI. I actually called home.

03:01:47.000 I'm gonna wrap this up.

03:01:48.000 I called home several times.

03:01:49.000 I won't get into this whole conversation.

03:01:51.000 You're good, you're good, go ahead.

03:01:52.000 I call home several times.

03:01:54.000 So I call to see my mom, to talk to my mom, to talk to my couple of people that I knew, you know, what's happening with this investigation.

03:02:02.000 I called my ex-wife, the whole thing.

03:02:05.000 And, you know, they're telling me what's going on, and this one chick, Susan, says, look, you know, we've all talked to the FBI. Like, you need to talk to the FBI. Try and turn yourself in.

03:02:14.000 She's like, Matt, I mean, maybe you'll go to prison, like, a camp or something for a couple years.

03:02:18.000 She's like, they have these camps.

03:02:20.000 Like, they're not scary.

03:02:22.000 It's for white-collar guys.

03:02:23.000 Like, you'll be okay.

03:02:25.000 They don't even have fences, like she knows all about.

03:02:27.000 I'm like, okay.

03:02:28.000 She goes, can you just call the FBI agent?

03:02:29.000 Her name is Candace Calderon.

03:02:31.000 And I'm like...

03:02:32.000 She's like, at least hear them out.

03:02:34.000 And I thought, okay.

03:02:34.000 And I'm in a desperate situation, bro.

03:02:36.000 I have no IDs.

03:02:38.000 None.

03:02:39.000 Oh.

03:02:39.000 She's got all...

03:02:40.000 Yeah, I have nothing.

03:02:40.000 And the only...

03:02:41.000 I do have an ID. The only ID I have...

03:02:44.000 Is an ID, it's that I know the car I was driving was in an ID. The tag, it was registered in an ID for a guy with a driver's license.

03:02:57.000 But I now know they know what that is because they saw the car I'm driving.

03:03:00.000 They've got the tag number.

03:03:01.000 Like, they're going to know.

03:03:02.000 Once they pull up the picture, they're going to know it's me.

03:03:04.000 It was a North Carolina ID. So they're going to be like, it was Michael Eckert, which was now Michael Johnson.

03:03:09.000 But they're going to know that's the same, that's Gary Sullivan.

03:03:12.000 Yeah. 1.00

03:03:13.000 And they're gonna, so I already know I'm just, I'm fucked. 0.99

03:03:15.000 They're looking for this guy by now. 0.98

03:03:17.000 So...

03:03:17.000 So you got $100,000, no IDs.

03:03:20.000 You didn't bother to even take them from the U-Haul or anything.

03:03:22.000 You just wanted to get out of there.

03:03:23.000 No, they were in the storage unit.

03:03:24.000 She's got the key.

03:03:25.000 I just want, I don't just want to be gone, bro.

03:03:26.000 You just want to be gone.

03:03:27.000 Because, listen, I've tried to leave her several times and she would call up on the phone and cry and beg and plead and I'm just... 0.99

03:03:32.000 Throwing the police, shit like that. 0.99

03:03:34.000 Well, she wouldn't even throw it. 1.00

03:03:34.000 She'd just be like, I fucked up. 1.00

03:03:36.000 I'm sorry. 0.71

03:03:36.000 I love you. 0.71

03:03:37.000 Please don't do this.

03:03:37.000 Don't leave me.

03:03:38.000 You promised you wouldn't leave me.

03:03:39.000 And I did.

03:03:39.000 I said, I won't leave you.

03:03:40.000 But I didn't know you were insane. 0.82

03:03:42.000 So, you know, so and I would turn around and come back. 0.85

03:03:45.000 So I just I remember.

03:03:46.000 So this time when I left, I actually put the phone on the counter and just walked out because I thought I can't.

03:03:49.000 I'm done.

03:03:50.000 Get in the car.

03:03:51.000 I'm driving.

03:03:52.000 I call back home.

03:03:53.000 Susan tells me call the FBI agent.

03:03:55.000 I call the FBI agent.

03:03:56.000 Her name is Candace Calderon.

03:03:59.000 And, you know, she picks up the phone and I'm like, hey, this is Matt Cox.

03:04:01.000 She's like, oh, wow.

03:04:02.000 Hey, Matt, how are you?

03:04:04.000 And I'm like, hey, it was her cell phone.

03:04:06.000 And she said, how'd you get this number?

03:04:07.000 I said, Susan Barker told me to call you.

03:04:08.000 And she's like, okay.

03:04:09.000 I said, did you need something?

03:04:12.000 And she goes, yeah, I need you to turn yourself in.

03:04:13.000 I said, well, that's not going to happen.

03:04:14.000 And she said, well, don't be hasty.

03:04:17.000 She goes, let's talk about this.

03:04:19.000 And so we start having this conversation back and forth, back and forth.

03:04:23.000 And so, you know, so that I don't get into the whole conversation. 0.94

03:04:26.000 But basically she was – she's extremely arrogant. 1.00

03:04:29.000 I'm extremely arrogant. 0.97

03:04:30.000 I'm cocky. 0.98

03:04:31.000 She's cocky. 0.79

03:04:32.000 She starts saying stuff like, oh, we're going to – you are cocky. 0.68

03:04:35.000 She's like, yeah, we are going to catch you eventually.

03:04:39.000 She kept calling me sweetie.

03:04:40.000 Listen, sweetie, we know we're going to catch you eventually.

03:04:43.000 And I was like, yeah.

03:04:43.000 I said, well, it's taking you so long.

03:04:46.000 Because you've been on the run for a few years now.

03:04:47.000 I've been on the run for about two years.

03:04:49.000 And she's like, we're 90% sure where you are.

03:04:52.000 I said, only 100% counts.

03:04:55.000 I said, look, if you want to have this conversation in person, I said, we need to work out a deal.

03:05:02.000 We can mouth off to each other back and forth.

03:05:05.000 She says, you're going to come back and see somebody in Tampa, or somebody's going to pull you over and they're going to recognize you.

03:05:13.000 Some cop's going to ask for your ID and you're not going to be able to provide it.

03:05:18.000 And she's going back and forth.

03:05:20.000 I said, whoa, whoa, whoa.

03:05:21.000 I said, listen, listen, listen.

03:05:22.000 I said, let me sum this up.

03:05:25.000 Nobody's going to recognize me.

03:05:26.000 I said, I've had multiple plastic surgeries.

03:05:28.000 I said, I have multiple fake IDs.

03:05:30.000 I said, I have multiple passports.

03:05:34.000 I've been in and out of the country.

03:05:35.000 I've been pulled over. 0.99

03:05:36.000 I said, I got so many tickets in one guy's name, I had to go to fucking traffic school as him. 0.98

03:05:40.000 And it's true. 0.97

03:05:43.000 Wait, telling an FBI agent that, isn't that like... 1.00

03:05:46.000 I mean, is it stupid? 1.00

03:05:48.000 Yeah, but I'm cocky, right? 1.00

03:05:49.000 So she's cocky.

03:05:50.000 You can't touch him at this point, remember?

03:05:52.000 So I feel like I'm perfect, right?

03:05:53.000 Wait, can't it check his phone?

03:05:54.000 Like, his phone call?

03:05:55.000 And I had that conversation.

03:05:57.000 It's funny because...

03:05:58.000 Probably broke the phone every time.

03:05:59.000 She called.

03:06:00.000 Well, what she did was she called.

03:06:02.000 She said, I'm going to call the U.S. attorney and see what I can work out.

03:06:06.000 And I said, okay.

03:06:07.000 I said, I'll call you back.

03:06:08.000 She goes, well, just leave your phone on.

03:06:10.000 And I said, nah, you're probably triangulating this or something.

03:06:13.000 And she goes, she said, just get over yourself.

03:06:16.000 She goes, you're not that important. 1.00

03:06:18.000 And I remember thinking, yeah, who the fuck do you think you are? 0.99

03:06:21.000 She like really humbled me, right? 0.99

03:06:22.000 I was like, God, yeah.

03:06:25.000 I was like...

03:06:26.000 I said, nah, you know what?

03:06:27.000 I said, I'll call you back in a couple hours.

03:06:28.000 So I just, I shut it off, right? 0.99

03:06:30.000 Took the battery out like stupid, probably doesn't do anything. 0.99

03:06:33.000 You know, sat there for about two hours. 0.98

03:06:34.000 Well, when I ordered my discovery, my Freedom of Information Act, she called the U.S. Marshals.

03:06:39.000 They tracked the phone number back, found out it was a virgin phone that I'd paid for at a gas station.

03:06:46.000 And they ordered from Baton Rouge.

03:06:48.000 They immediately dispatched a couple U.S. Marshals who drove straight to where I was.

03:06:54.000 And I sat.

03:06:55.000 Woo! 0.99

03:06:56.000 I actually sat there for the two hours.

03:07:00.000 It had a Subway attached, you know, Subway restaurant attached to it, sandwich shop.

03:07:03.000 I sat there for two hours.

03:07:05.000 So it's not like- Did they find you?

03:07:06.000 Well, no, because it was, we were pretty far away.

03:07:08.000 Like it was several hours drive.

03:07:10.000 So, and I'm sure that all that took some time.

03:07:12.000 Oh, okay, for them to actually get out there and everything.

03:07:14.000 You were gone.

03:07:14.000 Right.

03:07:15.000 At some point, I get in my truck, my U-Haul truck, so I'm bouncing around in an empty U-Haul truck driving down the interstate, and I call her back, and we're talking, and she tells me, she told me, I think she told me seven years.

03:07:27.000 Seven years.

03:07:29.000 You come back to Tampa, and it's seven years.

03:07:31.000 But you have to cooperate against everybody.

03:07:34.000 And by this point, I already know everybody's already cooperating against me.

03:07:36.000 So I really don't have that big of an issue with that.

03:07:38.000 Even though I'm telling her, like, I'm not going to do that.

03:07:42.000 And she's also saying, like, my ex-wife.

03:07:44.000 And I'm like, my ex-wife doesn't know anything.

03:07:46.000 And she's like, we don't believe that.

03:07:50.000 And so we're going back and forth.

03:07:51.000 And I'm like, listen, you understand it's not...

03:07:54.000 She's like, yeah, it covers everything.

03:07:55.000 I go, does it cover everything like Georgia?

03:07:58.000 Does it cover, like, there's some stuff you don't know about?

03:08:01.000 And she said, no, no, it covers, it covers, she's like, yeah, it covers everything.

03:08:05.000 I just need you to come back to Tampa.

03:08:06.000 She kept saying, come back to Tampa.

03:08:07.000 So she kept dodging the question, and at some point, I kind of backed her into a corner.

03:08:11.000 I said, listen to me.

03:08:12.000 I said, you won't seem to answer this question.

03:08:14.000 Does this include Atlanta, Georgia, and other things in other states that you don't know about yet?

03:08:21.000 And she says...

03:08:24.000 All I can speak for is Tampa.

03:08:25.000 Because she only called the U.S. attorney in Tampa. 0.99

03:08:28.000 And I go, oh, damn. 0.99

03:08:30.000 Like, I mean, you're good. 1.00

03:08:33.000 Like, you.

03:08:34.000 And she's like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

03:08:36.000 She said, let me call the U.S. attorney in Atlanta. 0.86

03:08:39.000 We can work something.

03:08:40.000 I said, nah. 1.00

03:08:40.000 I said, you know, I wouldn't believe you if you told me the fucking water was wet. 1.00

03:08:43.000 And I said, nah, we're done. 0.99

03:08:44.000 And I chucked the phone out.

03:08:46.000 Because you can still be held liable for the other stuff, guys.

03:08:48.000 That's why.

03:08:49.000 Because I'm thinking...

03:08:50.000 All right, this thing is talking to me on the phone.

03:08:51.000 I'm keeping my phone as long as possible.

03:08:53.000 I find this location.

03:08:53.000 That's what I would do if I was a feds.

03:08:54.000 Right, but this was a long time ago.

03:08:57.000 You know what I'm saying?

03:08:58.000 Sophisticated.

03:08:58.000 Yeah.

03:08:59.000 Like, this is not, like, now they probably punch it up and be like, oh, he's traveling right now on I-75.

03:09:04.000 He's at such and such.

03:09:05.000 This is a long time.

03:09:06.000 Yeah, this is not.

03:09:07.000 They weren't that sophisticated or that quick.

03:09:09.000 Got it.

03:09:09.000 So I throw it out.

03:09:10.000 The phone, you know, goes dead.

03:09:12.000 I go all the way back to Charlotte.

03:09:14.000 I park my, the tribe, return the truck for some reason.

03:09:18.000 Return the truck.

03:09:19.000 And then I go and I get my car, which was parked in the parking garage, like the multi, you know, those big car parking garage, right?

03:09:28.000 Well, you're in Miami.

03:09:29.000 They're everywhere here.

03:09:30.000 Anyway, so I get in that car, and I remember when I drove out of the parking garage, I remember thinking, I'm okay.

03:09:37.000 I'm good.

03:09:38.000 They don't have me.

03:09:39.000 I just got to go get some—I just got to go service—I'm sorry.

03:09:43.000 Get some more properties.

03:09:44.000 I just got to go survey some more—I said service some homeless people.

03:09:47.000 You know what I'm saying?

03:09:48.000 Not good, bro.

03:09:49.000 Not a good look.

03:09:50.000 Big pause.

03:09:51.000 Survey some homeless people.

03:09:53.000 And so I stop, and then I think, I'm going to get Starbucks real quick.

03:09:59.000 So I'm next to the apartment complex.

03:10:01.000 So I drive into the—I park on the street.

03:10:03.000 I go in.

03:10:04.000 I get—I order a Starbucks.

03:10:05.000 I'm waiting.

03:10:05.000 And there's two people from the apartment complex staring at me.

03:10:08.000 And I'm looking at them, looking at them, and the female walks out the back. 0.99

03:10:13.000 This is downtown Charlotte.

03:10:14.000 And she walks out the back, and the guy's staring at me.

03:10:17.000 They call his order.

03:10:18.000 He stands there with his order.

03:10:19.000 He's got a bunch of coffees.

03:10:20.000 I get my order.

03:10:21.000 I walk outside.

03:10:23.000 I get my car.

03:10:24.000 He follows me out.

03:10:26.000 And you know what I thought it was?

03:10:27.000 Because it's like the fourth or the fifth.

03:10:28.000 And I remember thinking, rent?

03:10:31.000 I haven't paid my rent.

03:10:32.000 I went to, you know, I'm not paying whatever it is, a couple grand.

03:10:35.000 I'm not going to be here.

03:10:36.000 Like, I'm thinking, they're taking this serious.

03:10:37.000 Like, what, are they going to go serve me or something?

03:10:39.000 Like, I don't know.

03:10:40.000 So, no big deal.

03:10:41.000 I get in my car.

03:10:41.000 I start my car.

03:10:43.000 You know, I'm playing with all this stuff and, you know, CDs.

03:10:46.000 They used to have CDs.

03:10:47.000 You know, I'm playing with the CDs, getting everything right.

03:10:48.000 I got my seatbelt on.

03:10:49.000 I'm checking to look and see if there's any cars coming.

03:10:52.000 And all of a sudden, the guy starts screaming, he's right here!

03:10:54.000 He's right here!

03:10:55.000 I look in the rearview mirror, turn around, there's two guys running towards the back of the car.

03:11:00.000 The reason they were looking at me is because the U.S. Marshals had just interviewed them.

03:11:04.000 And they were interviewing people at the apartment complex, walking around, you know, neighbors, that sort of thing.

03:11:10.000 And so the woman ran back there to say, he's right across the street.

03:11:14.000 Oh, okay.

03:11:14.000 So they come running and I just, boom, I punch it.

03:11:17.000 I take off.

03:11:18.000 There is no squealing, because it had posi-traction.

03:11:22.000 But it does sound dramatic, right?

03:11:24.000 I mean, it sounds better than it is.

03:11:25.000 It wasn't that good.

03:11:26.000 It makes it sound like I fishtail down the street, and cars are screeching.

03:11:31.000 But the truth is, there was no cars.

03:11:32.000 I'd already checked for the cars.

03:11:33.000 I just happened to hit the gas.

03:11:34.000 And these guys are maybe 50 feet from, which they're closing fast.

03:11:37.000 So I hit the gas, and I take off.

03:11:39.000 I drive about a mile down the street.

03:11:40.000 I see some homeless guys.

03:11:43.000 Service time!

03:11:44.000 You know what I do.

03:11:46.000 Survey!

03:11:48.000 Pull over.

03:11:49.000 While I get a chase from the Marshalls, you do this.

03:11:51.000 Oh, yeah, but I'm like a mile.

03:11:52.000 Yeah, but they were on foot, and I'm gone.

03:11:54.000 I need the identities.

03:11:55.000 I pull over, and that's where I find this guy.

03:11:58.000 I find Walter Holcomb.

03:12:00.000 I had a guy named...

03:12:01.000 Walter?

03:12:02.000 God, what was his name?

03:12:03.000 Like John Phillips or something.

03:12:05.000 It was a good name, too.

03:12:06.000 It was like...

03:12:06.000 Whatever it was, it was very generic.

03:12:08.000 Phillips was generic.

03:12:09.000 And then the other guy was...

03:12:12.000 Joseph Marion Carter Jr.

03:12:15.000 Because that's pretty much who I lived as in Nashville.

03:12:19.000 So I drive to Nashville. 0.99

03:12:20.000 Damn. 1.00

03:12:21.000 I drive to Nashville. 1.00

03:12:22.000 I immediately rent an apartment.

03:12:26.000 I get an ID. How much money do you have now at this point?

03:12:29.000 I have 100 Rand.

03:12:31.000 That's all I've got.

03:12:31.000 Okay.

03:12:32.000 You haven't made money since then.

03:12:33.000 No, because he gave it to me, and two days later, I'm in, you know, like, it's been only a couple days.

03:12:40.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

03:12:41.000 And then within a week or so, I've got, within two weeks, I'd say, I have, within a day, I have an apartment.

03:12:47.000 The next day, I've got all the electric and everything.

03:12:49.000 I've got a bed, everything.

03:12:51.000 I've got a couple days after that, I'm getting a driver's license.

03:12:55.000 Then I drive that car all the way back to Charlotte, and I leave it in Charlotte, long-term parking.

03:13:01.000 I fly back to Tennessee, to Nashville.

03:13:05.000 I buy a car.

03:13:08.000 20% down, first time buyer program, and a pay stub, boom, you got it, CarMax.

03:13:12.000 So I get myself a car, and I basically just start dating for about three, four months while I'm kind of cultivating this guy's credit.

03:13:21.000 Of course, I start the credit on several guys.

03:13:23.000 I start buying houses cheap for $60,000, $75,000, recording the value at $230,000, $240,000.

03:13:32.000 Okay, so you go back to the old scam that you did back down in Tampa.

03:13:36.000 It's my favorite.

03:13:37.000 Bringing the comps up.

03:13:38.000 If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

03:13:40.000 This is what year now.

03:13:42.000 Are we in 05, 06, 07?

03:13:43.000 We're in 07.

03:13:45.000 No, no.

03:13:46.000 We're in 06.

03:13:47.000 I meet this chick Amanda. 1.00

03:13:49.000 She moves in.

03:13:53.000 She knows I'm wanted.

03:13:57.000 She knows Carter's not my name.

03:13:59.000 That's all I'll tell her.

03:14:01.000 And I tell her not to look into it.

03:14:02.000 If you find out what my real name is, I'll just bolt.

03:14:04.000 That's it.

03:14:05.000 She's okay with it because, let's face it, she's living like she's never lived before.

03:14:08.000 We're going to Venice.

03:14:11.000 I'm sorry.

03:14:12.000 Well, we did go to Venice.

03:14:13.000 We go to Italy.

03:14:14.000 We go to Rome. 1.00

03:14:15.000 Damn, shit. 1.00

03:14:16.000 So you're making money back again and everything. 1.00

03:14:18.000 I buy a bunch of houses.

03:14:20.000 Immediately, I'm borrowing...

03:14:22.000 Hundreds of thousands, yeah.

03:14:24.000 One and a half million...

03:14:25.000 No, what am I saying?

03:14:27.000 I borrow two and a half...

03:14:29.000 Or $3 million in Nashville.

03:14:32.000 So Amanda's happy.

03:14:34.000 So the $100,000 you used to kind of get yourself set up and get your first house.

03:14:37.000 Exactly.

03:14:38.000 So with $100,000 I got four people to own or finance their houses.

03:14:42.000 And I recorded the value higher, set the market, refinance it.

03:14:44.000 Now I've got half a million.

03:14:45.000 So very quickly I run up that money.

03:14:48.000 We start building brand new houses.

03:14:49.000 We start a development company.

03:14:51.000 Everything's good.

03:14:52.000 And then one day Amanda finds out who I am.

03:14:55.000 She finds out my real name.

03:14:57.000 What had happened was we had a corporate attorney who had opened a couple corporations for us, and she had called me one day and said, hey, Carter, I need this.

03:15:05.000 So I called Amanda, said, Amanda, go on my computer, print this off, send it to her.

03:15:09.000 And she goes, okay, no problem.

03:15:10.000 She goes on my computer, and she's on Word, and she happens to be scrolling through the documents and sees a document that says, letter to mom and dad.

03:15:23.000 And she clicks it.

03:15:24.000 And it's George and Margaret Cox.

03:15:26.000 And I signed it Matthew.

03:15:28.000 So she looks up Matthew Cox.

03:15:30.000 Oh, yeah.

03:15:31.000 Fraud, fraud, fraud.

03:15:33.000 By this point, you know, so keep in mind too, and I realize what she did right away.

03:15:37.000 As soon as I go get back, I go to close my computer and I start to close everything.

03:15:41.000 As soon as I click on, you know, you click on, it shows the last files open.

03:15:46.000 And I'm like, Do you want to save this document?

03:15:49.000 Letter to mom and dad. 0.99

03:15:50.000 I'm like, oh shit. 0.99

03:15:51.000 And then I click on the history bar and it's like secret service is the most wanted, you know, boom, boom, you know, fugitive. 0.99

03:15:57.000 And I'm like, oh, it's not good.

03:15:59.000 Yeah.

03:15:59.000 You know, call it in South Carolina bank.

03:16:00.000 You know, it's just like, oh, no, no, no, no.

03:16:02.000 So I go in, I confront her.

03:16:04.000 She starts crying, begs me not to go.

03:16:07.000 I'm like, I got to leave now.

03:16:08.000 She's like, no, no, please.

03:16:09.000 I love you. 1.00

03:16:11.000 And you know, and so obviously I'm an idiot. 0.98

03:16:13.000 So I don't leave. 0.99

03:16:14.000 She didn't call the police, though?

03:16:15.000 No, no.

03:16:16.000 She's down with it.

03:16:17.000 She's good.

03:16:18.000 But the problem is that now she knows.

03:16:21.000 So what happens is maybe six months later, now she's searching me all the time.

03:16:27.000 Six months later, she sees a blog about a new Dateline episode that's coming out called Thief of Hearts.

03:16:33.000 It's about Matthew Cox.

03:16:36.000 Yeah.

03:16:37.000 Yeah, it's me.

03:16:38.000 So Dateline's going to do a special on me.

03:16:40.000 Yeah.

03:16:41.000 So she checks.

03:16:43.000 It's Matt Cox.

03:16:44.000 And she starts reading it.

03:16:44.000 She calls me.

03:16:45.000 She's like, oh my God.

03:16:46.000 She's like, they're doing a Dateline special on you.

03:16:48.000 A one-hour Dateline special.

03:16:49.000 And I'm like, that's not good.

03:16:51.000 Now, keep in mind, by this point, I've been in like, I've been in Fortune Magazine.

03:16:55.000 I've been in Bloomberg Businessweek has done several articles.

03:16:58.000 I've been in all kinds of newspapers.

03:17:00.000 But that's negligible, right?

03:17:02.000 Like, those are kind of local.

03:17:03.000 And like, I don't hang out with anybody.

03:17:04.000 That was a big deal back then, man. 0.97

03:17:06.000 Because for the audience, YouTube, none of this shit existed back then, guys. 0.98

03:17:09.000 So like, you made on the news or whatever. 0.99

03:17:10.000 That was a Big fucking Dateline hour special? 0.97

03:17:12.000 That was huge. 0.98

03:17:13.000 That's the problem, is that right now you have a thousand things to watch.

03:17:17.000 Back then you had three major networks and a couple local channels?

03:17:24.000 Even if you had cable, there were still main news channels.

03:17:29.000 Not a lot.

03:17:30.000 And everybody watched Dateline.

03:17:31.000 Yeah, the mainstream media still controlled the narrative.

03:17:34.000 Like, yeah, you had all these other channels with cable, but they were still the main news channels.

03:17:39.000 Sorry, go ahead.

03:17:40.000 Yeah, so Dateline was a big deal.

03:17:42.000 So now I'm worried.

03:17:44.000 Now I'm like, I gotta get out of here.

03:17:45.000 Like, I gotta go.

03:17:46.000 So we start researching.

03:17:47.000 But we got months.

03:17:48.000 So we start researching.

03:17:49.000 We find out that if you...

03:17:50.000 You could go to Australia, and you could go there if you had like over $100,000 or $200,000 in a business plan.

03:18:03.000 They would allow you to come there, and you could become a permanent resident alien.

03:18:11.000 But they wouldn't run your criminal record, right?

03:18:16.000 So I had a guy that didn't have a criminal record.

03:18:19.000 So you can run it, but they didn't do fingerprints.

03:18:22.000 Like, they didn't fingerprint you run a full thing through because you're not a citizen.

03:18:25.000 You're not trying to be a citizen.

03:18:26.000 I just want to retire here or live here.

03:18:28.000 And I'm coming here to open a business and hire Aussies. 1.00

03:18:30.000 Now, I can't get a job.

03:18:32.000 But I can go there, open a business, and I can buy real estate.

03:18:35.000 Boom.

03:18:36.000 That's with a couple hundred thousand.

03:18:37.000 I'm going to show it with millions.

03:18:39.000 Yeah.

03:18:39.000 So I've got a few, we've got a bunch of money, and we start pulling money cash out, and we start asking people to, hey, can you cash these three checks?

03:18:48.000 You know, we've got time, so we're stockpiling some cash.

03:18:50.000 Okay.

03:18:52.000 So you have like $2 million you need to liquidate.

03:18:54.000 Yeah, and we're also refinancing properties at the same time.

03:18:57.000 So maybe we'll have a couple million, maybe we'll have more.

03:19:00.000 It depends on how long I can go.

03:19:02.000 And so...

03:19:06.000 Amanda ends up asking one of her friends named Trina to cash some checks. 1.00

03:19:10.000 And that sparks a conversation with what's going on.

03:19:14.000 And Amanda tells her who I am.

03:19:16.000 And Trina calls the Secret Service and negotiates a $10,000 reward.

03:19:23.000 Because you were number one for them.

03:19:25.000 Yeah, and they watch my house for three days.

03:19:27.000 And then one day I come home and they get on the ground, get on the ground, get on the ground.

03:19:33.000 And I get on the ground and they handcuff me and that's it.

03:19:36.000 And this is what year was this?

03:19:38.000 2006, 2007 now?

03:19:39.000 At this point?

03:19:40.000 This is late.

03:19:42.000 This is like November of 2006.

03:19:45.000 You know what's crazy?

03:19:46.000 Adam and Eve started with a man and woman.

03:19:48.000 And as a result, Eve tricked Adam.

03:19:52.000 He fell.

03:19:53.000 You, my friend, started with Gretchen.

03:19:54.000 The lady that told you to go whiteout.

03:19:57.000 And then it ends with Amanda.

03:19:59.000 Well, I mean, you can't, you know, you have to think about... 0.91

03:20:01.000 So Amanda told her friend, and her friend is the one that fucked it up. 0.59

03:20:03.000 Yeah. 0.82

03:20:04.000 Trisha.

03:20:04.000 Yeah, yeah.

03:20:05.000 And Amanda didn't tell her on purpose.

03:20:07.000 I mean, she told her, but she didn't think she was going to call, and she didn't do it.

03:20:10.000 You know, she just was...

03:20:11.000 And you found this out from your discovery that she was the one.

03:20:13.000 No, I found it out when Amanda wrote me a letter in prison.

03:20:16.000 Oh.

03:20:16.000 And explained it.

03:20:17.000 The only letter I got.

03:20:18.000 Are her and Trisha still friends?

03:20:20.000 Oh no, no.

03:20:22.000 No.

03:20:23.000 How much money had you unmasked at that point when you got picked up by Secret Service?

03:20:28.000 I don't know.

03:20:30.000 A million maybe?

03:20:33.000 That I had in cash or in the bank?

03:20:35.000 Yeah, I meant in cash, yeah.

03:20:36.000 Maybe half a million, 600,000?

03:20:37.000 Yeah, because the whole goal was to get the money out so that you can go to Australia.

03:20:40.000 It had to be less than 600,000 because I know the most money I've ever had in cash was about 600,000.

03:20:46.000 Everybody's like, oh, you had millions?

03:20:47.000 Yeah, but it wasn't in cash.

03:20:48.000 Yeah.

03:20:49.000 500,000 here, 200,000 in these different accounts.

03:20:52.000 And people say, why did you get it out?

03:20:54.000 It's difficult to get it out.

03:20:55.000 It's very difficult to get it out.

03:20:56.000 And I don't need to get it out if it's in an account in a name that isn't a stolen identity.

03:21:03.000 Or if it is a stolen identity, the person doesn't even know.

03:21:05.000 Like some homeless guy living under a bridge in Alabama doesn't know he's got an account with $400,000 in North Carolina.

03:21:12.000 Wait, did Amanda keep all the money? 1.00

03:21:13.000 No, when the Secret Service shows up, they grab everything.

03:21:18.000 Yeah, no, I mean, that makes sense because obviously you have to get the money out nice and slow so that you don't trigger as many things and obviously using different identities.

03:21:25.000 Yeah, it's going to take months to get all that money out.

03:21:28.000 But I'm just curious, as a former HSI agent, how is he able to run for so long and not get caught?

03:21:34.000 I mean, this is a different time, bro.

03:21:36.000 Oh, you mean, because it's back then?

03:21:37.000 Yeah, this is 05, 06, and also he had a bunch of different IDs.

03:21:40.000 He was going to different states.

03:21:41.000 Listen, I'm getting pulled over by the cops.

03:21:43.000 I'm getting tickets.

03:21:45.000 I have real...

03:21:46.000 You could still get real...

03:21:47.000 I could go in right now and get a real driver's license issued in the state of Florida.

03:21:51.000 You know, you could, like...

03:21:53.000 Because the backup documents are authentic.

03:21:55.000 Right.

03:21:56.000 What are they going to do?

03:21:59.000 It's the same thing if you moved to a different state and went to go get an ID or a driver's license in that state.

03:22:03.000 I'm providing the same documents you would.

03:22:05.000 They don't know if they connect to you or not.

03:22:08.000 Because the thing is that all of his backup documents are legit. 0.71

03:22:11.000 It's just that he got it from homeless people that don't really have IDs and shit like that.

03:22:14.000 So he's able to go and get the stuff easy. 0.69

03:22:16.000 So you're telling me I can get a fake ID and just live as that person in America?

03:22:21.000 Yeah.

03:22:22.000 Why not?

03:22:23.000 A lot of people do it. 1.00

03:22:24.000 Shit, my new name is George Washington. 0.99

03:22:26.000 So the issue I was having was my fear was like if I reestablish myself as this person and what if this person dies someday? 0.98

03:22:35.000 So my whole thing was like to get enough money and then transfer everything into a corporation or trust and then try and alter that identity enough so that it never really connects.

03:22:52.000 Like get a new social security number issued for that name, change the guy's name.

03:22:57.000 You know what I'm saying?

03:22:58.000 So if at some point that person dies, it doesn't end up connecting to me.

03:23:03.000 I have a different name.

03:23:04.000 The only thing we share is maybe the date of birth.

03:23:06.000 We have a different social security number.

03:23:07.000 We have a different name.

03:23:09.000 Wow.

03:23:09.000 That's it.

03:23:10.000 And that's why one of the things like trying to get the guy doing the – changing the guy's name legally.

03:23:16.000 I want to know what that process is, how it works.

03:23:18.000 Right.

03:23:18.000 So, question.

03:23:19.000 So, you get picked up by Secret Service.

03:23:21.000 So, FBI has an open case on you.

03:23:23.000 Secret Service has an open case on you.

03:23:24.000 FBI has you indicted, if I'm not mistaken, probably in Tampa, Northern District of Florida, or maybe Central District of Florida.

03:23:31.000 And then you got an open case with Secret Service out of, you said Tennessee was an indicting office, right?

03:23:35.000 Yeah.

03:23:35.000 So, I got Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida.

03:23:41.000 You got indicted four different times?

03:23:43.000 Yeah, in four different districts. 0.99

03:23:44.000 Holy shit, okay. 0.99

03:23:45.000 So, you get picked up by Secret Service, probably out of the Nashville office. 0.99

03:23:49.000 Take me through that day, what happened?

03:23:51.000 Like, they brought you back to, what happened?

03:23:52.000 So they pick you up, what ends up happening?

03:23:54.000 Okay, can I tell you a joke real quick?

03:23:57.000 Yeah, sure.

03:23:57.000 Adam and Eve, you may have heard this.

03:23:58.000 You just said the Adam and Eve thing is shot in my...

03:24:00.000 Have you ever heard the Adam and Eve?

03:24:02.000 Yeah.

03:24:02.000 Okay, so, you know, Adam's in paradise.

03:24:06.000 Garden.

03:24:07.000 And he's bored.

03:24:07.000 Eden.

03:24:08.000 Yeah, he's in Eden.

03:24:09.000 He's in paradise.

03:24:09.000 Ebor, he's in E-war.

03:24:10.000 He's in...

03:24:10.000 Yeah, so he's, you know, so everything's perfect, but he's lonely.

03:24:15.000 So he goes to God and he says, God...

03:24:19.000 He says, you know, I'm lonely.

03:24:20.000 I appreciate everything you've done, but I'm lonely.

03:24:22.000 And God says, okay, he said, could you make me a partner?

03:24:25.000 And he says, yes, I'll make you a partner.

03:24:28.000 He says, here's what I'll do, Adam.

03:24:29.000 I will split you down the middle, and I am going to make the perfect female to your male. 1.00

03:24:36.000 She will be equal to you in intellect and physical embodiment in every single way. 0.93

03:24:43.000 She will be your equal.

03:24:45.000 And Adam goes, what can I get for a rib?

03:24:50.000 A mick rib.

03:24:51.000 That's the Adam and Eve story.

03:24:53.000 So anyway, have you heard that?

03:24:55.000 No, that's funny.

03:24:55.000 Oh, come on.

03:24:56.000 That's funny.

03:24:57.000 That's a variation, but it is funny, yeah.

03:24:59.000 So anyway.

03:25:01.000 Now we ended up with women. 0.99

03:25:02.000 I'm just joking.

03:25:04.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

03:25:04.000 Go ahead.

03:25:05.000 Okay, so what happens is they arrest me.

03:25:07.000 They arrest me.

03:25:08.000 They put me in the back of the car.

03:25:09.000 They drive me to the local secret service.

03:25:11.000 They handcuff me.

03:25:13.000 And they get me McDonald's.

03:25:16.000 Yo! 1.00

03:25:17.000 That's what they always do.

03:25:19.000 Wait, where'd they get you?

03:25:21.000 Breakfast or...

03:25:21.000 Oh, like a...

03:25:22.000 Big Mac?

03:25:23.000 No, like a small cheeseburger and like a Coke and fries.

03:25:27.000 Like, that's all I wanted.

03:25:28.000 And before the audience knows, sorry, just so you guys know, yeah, Secret Service does financial investigations, guys.

03:25:33.000 They have two real mandates, three.

03:25:36.000 Obviously protecting the president, and then counterfeit currency, and then financial crimes is a big one they do.

03:25:41.000 Especially if it has to do with...

03:25:43.000 So it's...

03:25:44.000 Protecting the financial infrastructure of the United States.

03:25:48.000 So anything with banking and especially with identity theft.

03:25:51.000 Yeah.

03:25:51.000 Credit cards, all that.

03:25:52.000 Yeah.

03:25:53.000 Which is all what I was doing.

03:25:54.000 Yeah.

03:25:54.000 So I fell right into their jurisdiction.

03:25:56.000 Yeah.

03:25:58.000 Because I was- That's why they got Sean Kingston.

03:26:00.000 It was Sean Kingston that got- Oh yeah.

03:26:02.000 It was Secret Service that picked him up.

03:26:03.000 Him and his mom.

03:26:03.000 He just got indicted federally like last week.

03:26:05.000 But sorry, continue on.

03:26:06.000 Oh, sorry.

03:26:07.000 No, just...

03:26:08.000 You know what's crazy about Sean Kingston?

03:26:10.000 What?

03:26:11.000 He's been doing that for years, bro.

03:26:12.000 Like, years.

03:26:12.000 Scamming?

03:26:13.000 Bro, a lot of rappers do that, bro.

03:26:14.000 I know they do.

03:26:16.000 So, yeah, so...

03:26:18.000 The secret, main secret...

03:26:19.000 The chick that was... 1.00

03:26:21.000 Her name was... 0.99

03:26:22.000 So the main secret service agent...

03:26:23.000 The case agent, probably.

03:26:24.000 Yeah, Andrea Peacock.

03:26:26.000 Okay.

03:26:26.000 She comes down...

03:26:27.000 Andrea.

03:26:28.000 And she talks to me, you know.

03:26:31.000 She comes in, she's like, look, you know...

03:26:36.000 We'd like to ask you some questions.

03:26:37.000 And I'm like, okay.

03:26:39.000 And I'm like, I want to talk to you.

03:26:42.000 I said, but I really would like to talk to a lawyer.

03:26:45.000 And she said, okay, we're good.

03:26:46.000 She said, that's fine.

03:26:47.000 She said, we're going to have you transferred back to Atlanta.

03:26:51.000 And I was like, okay.

03:26:52.000 And she said, I'll talk to you then.

03:26:54.000 She said, it's probably going to be a few weeks, maybe a month or so.

03:26:56.000 And I was like, I don't know how it works.

03:26:58.000 I'm like, okay.

03:26:59.000 So, they end up moving me to, like, Mississippi or something.

03:27:07.000 And first it was, like, Oklahoma.

03:27:10.000 No, it was Mississippi.

03:27:11.000 I was there for, like, two weeks to some private prison.

03:27:14.000 Well, first I was in a local prison for, like, four or five days.

03:27:17.000 Then they transferred me to, like, Mississippi for a couple weeks.

03:27:20.000 Then they fly me to Oklahoma City.

03:27:24.000 Okay.

03:27:25.000 So, which is like a transfer station.

03:27:27.000 So I stay in Oklahoma City for two or three weeks.

03:27:30.000 And then they transfer me to Atlanta.

03:27:33.000 They fly me into like, whatever, someplace close to Atlanta.

03:27:36.000 And then they put me on a bus and they drive me, right?

03:27:38.000 So you're being bussed all around.

03:27:39.000 And they get me to Atlanta.

03:27:42.000 Where'd you do your initial appearance?

03:27:43.000 In Tennessee, right?

03:27:45.000 I did.

03:27:46.000 When you went in front of the magistrate judge.

03:27:47.000 Very briefly.

03:27:48.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

03:27:48.000 You've been arrested for XYZ. Were you indicted or was it a criminal complaint?

03:27:53.000 No, I've been indicted.

03:27:53.000 You've been indicted.

03:27:54.000 I hadn't been indicted in Tampa yet, but everybody else had indicted me.

03:27:57.000 Well, except for Nashville.

03:27:59.000 They hadn't.

03:27:59.000 So it really was just Atlanta and South Carolina, I think.

03:28:02.000 Okay, so they arrested you off of an Atlanta indictment, which is why they transferred you there.

03:28:06.000 So you did your initial appearance in Tennessee, but then you probably...

03:28:08.000 Okay, all right.

03:28:08.000 And then immediately got transferred to Atlanta, which took, like I said, a month or so.

03:28:12.000 Okay.

03:28:12.000 So I get there, and they give me a lawyer.

03:28:16.000 Did you get arraigned at that point?

03:28:18.000 Yeah, you get another...

03:28:18.000 You go in front of the judge again.

03:28:19.000 Yep.

03:28:20.000 You plan not guilty.

03:28:21.000 Yeah.

03:28:21.000 And they give me a lawyer, and then they have a bail, you know, bond hearing.

03:28:26.000 Yep.

03:28:26.000 And when I showed up for the bond hearing, like, I just met my lawyer.

03:28:29.000 Her name was Millie Dunn.

03:28:31.000 Super cool.

03:28:32.000 Like, very nice.

03:28:33.000 Very sweet.

03:28:33.000 You know, a public defender.

03:28:35.000 Okay.

03:28:36.000 Because, obviously, I don't have any money.

03:28:37.000 Yeah.

03:28:38.000 So...

03:28:38.000 They took it all.

03:28:39.000 Yeah, they took everything.

03:28:39.000 They seized everything.

03:28:41.000 So...

03:28:43.000 So anyway, she walks in with me and I walk in.

03:28:46.000 I'm like, well, what am I here for?

03:28:47.000 And she's like, a bond hearing.

03:28:48.000 And I go, they're going to give me a bond?

03:28:49.000 She's like, no.

03:28:50.000 No.

03:28:51.000 And they had photos of me before and after surgery.

03:28:55.000 They had photos of all my different...

03:28:57.000 They have a whole presentation.

03:28:59.000 The whole thing is filled up.

03:29:02.000 And the judge, it was being held in this really massive federal courtroom because my judge was a new judge.

03:29:10.000 He'd only been on the bench for like a month.

03:29:13.000 And so he didn't—his courtroom—because they actually give them their own courtrooms.

03:29:17.000 Yeah, yeah, they do.

03:29:17.000 His courtroom was still in the process of being done, so he was using the—she called it, like, the show courtroom, like, the fancy courtroom.

03:29:26.000 Right.

03:29:26.000 Not that the other ones aren't fancy, too, because they are.

03:29:29.000 But this was really nuts.

03:29:32.000 Anyway, she said—I said, so they're not going to be on?

03:29:35.000 She's like, no.

03:29:36.000 And I said, do we have to?

03:29:39.000 She goes, no, they're about to make a spectacle of this whole thing.

03:29:42.000 She goes, they're going to drag you through the mud here. 1.00

03:29:44.000 She said all these different identities, your plastic surgery, like everything.

03:29:48.000 Because when you go to a bond hearing, what they have to argue is, is he a flight risk?

03:29:51.000 And the government, it's their job to keep him detained.

03:29:54.000 So what they did was they got all his pictures, showed that this guy's been running, he's prone to run, he's changed his appearance, etc.

03:29:59.000 He's altered himself this much.

03:30:01.000 He's a flight risk.

03:30:02.000 We need to take his passport and don't let him out. 1.00

03:30:04.000 And they came with that whole presentation.

03:30:06.000 Keep in mind, they caught me with multiple plastic.

03:30:08.000 Oh, by the way, they had already caught Becky.

03:30:11.000 They caught her six months before me.

03:30:13.000 Oh, in Texas?

03:30:15.000 Yes.

03:30:15.000 How'd they get her?

03:30:18.000 She had 500k.

03:30:19.000 Price penalty.

03:30:19.000 So, she...

03:30:21.000 The way they caught her was she had told her mother...

03:30:25.000 Now, she tells a different story.

03:30:27.000 She says that she just got recognized as a waitress.

03:30:30.000 That's what they might have told her.

03:30:31.000 But what the Secret Service told me was she had spoken with a relative...

03:30:36.000 Which is only her mother.

03:30:37.000 Yeah.

03:30:37.000 They talked to her mother and had told her mother during one phone conversation she was in Houston, Texas.

03:30:43.000 Because she kept saying, where are you?

03:30:45.000 I just want to know where you are.

03:30:46.000 And then during another conversation, she said she was in beauty school.

03:30:51.000 So she's getting her, what's it, to cut hair, like cosmetology or something?

03:30:56.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

03:30:57.000 I'm getting my license to be a haircut person.

03:31:00.000 So now her mother knows.

03:31:01.000 She's in a cosmetology school in Houston, Texas. 0.99

03:31:04.000 She calls the fucking Secret Service, turns her in, they grab her. 1.00

03:31:08.000 Now, the Secret Service tells me this. 1.00

03:31:09.000 Because she had gotten indicted with you, probably.

03:31:11.000 Yeah, but her mother is... 1.00

03:31:13.000 If we think Becky's crazy, there's nothing compared to her mother.

03:31:17.000 So, you know...

03:31:18.000 I just want to know where you are!

03:31:20.000 That whole thing, you know?

03:31:23.000 And so, you know, Becky had gotten caught.

03:31:26.000 And... 0.63

03:31:27.000 And so Becky had all my, so when they grabbed me, they already have like fucking eight or 10 passports with my picture on it. 0.90

03:31:36.000 They got IDs. 0.56

03:31:36.000 She had the storage units, all that stuff. 0.56

03:31:38.000 They got IDs.

03:31:39.000 So when they get me, they caught me with maybe four or five passports.

03:31:43.000 She's got another eight or nine.

03:31:45.000 I've had like 22 passports.

03:31:48.000 And so, you know, they're sitting there like, he's had 27 driver's licenses in seven different states.

03:31:54.000 He's had two dozen passports.

03:31:56.000 It's not two dozen, it's 22.

03:31:58.000 But everything's exaggerated.

03:32:00.000 And, you know, they've got, so they're about to do all this, and I end up waiving it.

03:32:03.000 I said, do we have to do this?

03:32:04.000 And they're not going to give it.

03:32:06.000 She goes, we can waive it.

03:32:07.000 She goes, do you want to waive it?

03:32:08.000 I said, yeah.

03:32:08.000 She goes, okay, let's waive it.

03:32:09.000 She goes, I'd rather waive it.

03:32:10.000 She's like, I mean, I can argue for you, but Matt, she's like, the passports, she goes, you've got too many passports.

03:32:15.000 And I was like, okay.

03:32:16.000 Yeah.

03:32:16.000 So, they waive it.

03:32:19.000 U.S. Attorney's super disappointed.

03:32:21.000 Right.

03:32:21.000 Oh yeah, they wanted to make it a big deal.

03:32:22.000 A big show, right?

03:32:23.000 Yeah.

03:32:23.000 She loves the camera.

03:32:25.000 So, anyway, so what happens is- Who's your prosecutor?

03:32:28.000 Her name was Gail McKenzie.

03:32:30.000 Okay.

03:32:32.000 Really just, you know, everybody says their prosecutor hates them, so I hate to say that, but she hated me.

03:32:37.000 Anyway, so yeah, I, you know, of course, my lawyer, when I talked to my lawyer, she's like, listen, I'm like, well, what, what, what's like, do I have a defense?

03:32:45.000 Do I have, then she's like, no.

03:32:47.000 She's like, she's like, I don't know if you realize this, Matt, she said, but they're indicting you now as we speak in Tampa and in, in, in Tennessee and She goes, everybody's cooperated against you.

03:32:59.000 And several people in Tennessee who were in on, I think, maybe four or five, they've all cooperated already.

03:33:04.000 She goes, the people in Tampa, she's like, some of these people have gone to jail and gotten out or are getting out.

03:33:10.000 She's like, Becky's going to jail. 0.98

03:33:13.000 So when you ran away the first time, FBI didn't even have an arrest warrant for you.

03:33:16.000 They just wanted to talk to you.

03:33:17.000 No, when they...

03:33:19.000 Remember the first time you ran away?

03:33:21.000 When I took off on the run?

03:33:21.000 When you took off on the run originally, back down in Florida.

03:33:24.000 So the FBI didn't have an arrest warrant for you yet?

03:33:26.000 No, they were just going to come arrest me, though.

03:33:28.000 They were?

03:33:28.000 Oh, okay.

03:33:29.000 Because they don't need anything.

03:33:30.000 I'm on probation.

03:33:31.000 The Gary Sullivan story?

03:33:32.000 I'm on federal probation.

03:33:33.000 Okay, they were going to get you on probation violation.

03:33:34.000 Okay, okay.

03:33:35.000 Okay, okay.

03:33:36.000 So that makes sense.

03:33:36.000 So then they actually formally indicted you for this stuff.

03:33:39.000 After you got picked up in Tennessee.

03:33:41.000 Now, they had violated my probation immediately by saying I absconded.

03:33:45.000 So I've been wanted.

03:33:47.000 Okay, alright.

03:33:49.000 But it was wanted for different things.

03:33:50.000 Okay, makes sense now.

03:33:51.000 So she's like, you're done.

03:33:53.000 I'm like, well, what do I do?

03:33:55.000 She's like, your only choice is to cooperate and hope for the best. 0.99

03:34:01.000 Damn. 1.00

03:34:01.000 She goes, that's it. 1.00

03:34:03.000 She goes, I mean, we can go to trial.

03:34:05.000 She said, but you're going to get 30 years.

03:34:07.000 She goes, they might start stacking charges.

03:34:09.000 She goes, you might get – and I was – because I had read in the newspaper that I was looking at like 150 years.

03:34:14.000 She said, you won't get 150 years, but she said, you could theoretically get about 54 years. 0.99

03:34:18.000 Damn. 0.99

03:34:18.000 And I'm like, you know, it's not good. 0.99

03:34:23.000 Like, you know, Bernie Madoff's getting arrested.

03:34:25.000 Like, people are getting – he hasn't been charged yet.

03:34:27.000 Oh, yeah.

03:34:27.000 And I'm like, 54 years ago, I've never heard anything like that.

03:34:29.000 Is the real estate market crashing now at this point?

03:34:31.000 It is, because by now, well, it's starting to crash in late 2007, right?

03:34:37.000 And that's where I am.

03:34:37.000 I'm in mid-2007 at this point.

03:34:39.000 So it's starting to crash.

03:34:42.000 They're going to make an example out of you, man.

03:34:44.000 I'm the poster boy.

03:34:45.000 Matthew's the problem.

03:34:47.000 You are the poster boy of the real estate crash.

03:34:49.000 My little $55 million brought down the whole country. 1.00

03:34:52.000 Give me a fucking break. 1.00

03:34:52.000 You know what I'm saying? 1.00

03:34:54.000 You can't...

03:34:55.000 The moment you start defending yourself, then you're not taking responsibility.

03:34:58.000 So, yeah, basically, she's like, cooperate.

03:35:02.000 Like, go and cooperate.

03:35:03.000 And so I'm like, okay.

03:35:04.000 So she sets it up.

03:35:05.000 I meet with the FBI for...

03:35:08.000 Who did I meet with?

03:35:10.000 So just so I make sure I get this right.

03:35:11.000 Secret Service ran your case.

03:35:13.000 However, you did cooperate with the FBI on their Florida cases.

03:35:17.000 Yes.

03:35:17.000 So they consolidate all the indictments into one indictment in Atlanta.

03:35:22.000 Yeah.

03:35:22.000 Okay.

03:35:23.000 Like, I have a whole bunch of dockets, but it's all basically under one.

03:35:27.000 Okay.

03:35:28.000 So, I meet with the FBI. I talk with them.

03:35:33.000 Okay.

03:35:33.000 Like, one of the things they wanted to know, there was actually a guy named- Was your Secret Service agent there when you were cooperating?

03:35:38.000 No, no.

03:35:39.000 So I talk to the FBI for, whatever, four days?

03:35:43.000 I could be wrong.

03:35:44.000 It could be four or five, whatever.

03:35:45.000 Let's say four.

03:35:46.000 I speak with them.

03:35:47.000 Proffers, right?

03:35:48.000 Right.

03:35:49.000 And one of the things they want to know about is...

03:35:52.000 Chat proffers where he could basically say whatever he wants without being charged.

03:35:55.000 Right, which is too late because they got me up for everything.

03:35:56.000 But I had bribed a politician.

03:36:01.000 And I got him elected to the city council.

03:36:04.000 And they wanted to know about that. 1.00

03:36:06.000 They're bringing up all kinds of shit. 0.99

03:36:07.000 I forgot about it. 1.00

03:36:10.000 Who?

03:36:11.000 And I'm like, oh yeah!

03:36:13.000 That guy!

03:36:15.000 That's the kind of thing I'm like, right, right.

03:36:17.000 I remember the secret service.

03:36:18.000 So that was the FBI. So the FBI's angle, you came in and you helped them with public corruption, which makes sense.

03:36:23.000 That's one of their main things.

03:36:24.000 Right.

03:36:25.000 I think that was what they initially were.

03:36:27.000 That's all they cared about.

03:36:27.000 The first thing they cared about.

03:36:29.000 But that was the first thing.

03:36:29.000 We talk about that.

03:36:30.000 Okay, I explain it to him.

03:36:32.000 The guy's done, by the way. 1.00

03:36:33.000 I mean, hands down, he's fucked. 1.00

03:36:34.000 Like, I've got... 1.00

03:36:35.000 I'm writing...

03:36:36.000 I've got checks for $500 coming out of, you know, James Green's account, you know, Lee Black's account, you know, Brandon Green...

03:36:42.000 You know, all these...

03:36:44.000 Funding him.

03:36:45.000 Funding, you know, it came to like $23,000 or something.

03:36:48.000 My family's writing checks.

03:36:50.000 I'm writing checks.

03:36:50.000 My corporations are writing...

03:36:51.000 Like...

03:36:53.000 Your whole campaign was run off of $30,000, 23 of it's from me.

03:36:57.000 You're like the Dora Soros of the Times.

03:37:00.000 Okay, so that makes sense.

03:37:01.000 So you cooperated with the FBI to help them. 0.94

03:37:03.000 So they didn't give a fuck about your financial case. 0.97

03:37:04.000 No, no, they did. 0.98

03:37:05.000 I'm just saying that was the first thing they wanted.

03:37:07.000 They asked about everybody else, but everybody else has been indicted.

03:37:09.000 And they've all cooperated already, and they've already told them everything.

03:37:12.000 There's nothing I can really tell them.

03:37:14.000 Although I don't want to mislead you, I didn't try.

03:37:17.000 I desperately wanted to cut the throat of every single person I could cut to get out of the mess I'm in.

03:37:24.000 So it just doesn't work. 0.98

03:37:25.000 So then the Secret Service comes in.

03:37:28.000 They question me.

03:37:31.000 But there's really almost nobody to even talk about.

03:37:35.000 I started doing almost everything myself.

03:37:37.000 So we talked for maybe two or three days.

03:37:39.000 Because their purview is financial crimes.

03:37:41.000 And one of the things, they were concerned about tracking down money.

03:37:46.000 And if you watch Dateline or American Greed or any of these shows that they've done shows on me, they always talk about there's a missing $5 million or $3 million.

03:37:56.000 It's like, don't I wish?

03:37:58.000 So they were more concerned about tracking down money.

03:38:02.000 And keep in mind, too, I've got all these bank statements.

03:38:04.000 That show I have money in these banks like Southern Exchange Bank has $200,000 in it.

03:38:09.000 And they're pulling out these documents saying, what about here?

03:38:13.000 There's $200,000 here.

03:38:14.000 And I'm like, are you serious?

03:38:15.000 I'm like, did you call the bank?

03:38:17.000 They're like, we did.

03:38:17.000 We called.

03:38:18.000 We left messages.

03:38:18.000 I just subpoenaed them.

03:38:19.000 And I'm like, how?

03:38:21.000 Who did you subpoena?

03:38:23.000 And they're like, well, remember I told you it was once a bank?

03:38:26.000 Yeah.

03:38:26.000 So they subpoenaed the original Southern Exchange Bank.

03:38:30.000 And I'm like, did you go to the website?

03:38:32.000 And then the FBI agent goes, his name was Dan.

03:38:35.000 He goes, yeah, I went to the website.

03:38:37.000 I said, what did you think of it?

03:38:38.000 And then he goes, it's a bank website.

03:38:40.000 I said, but I mean, it's professional.

03:38:42.000 He's like, it's a bank website.

03:38:43.000 And I went, yeah, but I mean, it's professional.

03:38:47.000 I said, it's convincing. 1.00

03:38:49.000 And he goes, son of a bitch. 1.00

03:38:51.000 And he goes, and everybody's like, what? 1.00

03:38:53.000 What?

03:38:53.000 He goes, it's fake, isn't it?

03:38:54.000 I go, it's all an illusion.

03:38:56.000 Yeah.

03:38:56.000 To show money so that you can get these loans.

03:38:59.000 I'm like, you thought this was a real bank?

03:39:01.000 Wow. 1.00

03:39:01.000 Like, you're the fucking Secret Service. 1.00

03:39:02.000 Like, I was embarrassed. 1.00

03:39:03.000 Like, I can't believe you guys caught me.

03:39:05.000 So, anyway, what happens is, so I go through that.

03:39:10.000 Nobody gets arrested.

03:39:11.000 Okay.

03:39:13.000 So I go in front of, so then just before I go to sentencing, I plead guilty because I don't have a choice.

03:39:19.000 They do my pre-sentence report. 0.99

03:39:20.000 FBI couldn't get this fucking dirty politician? 1.00

03:39:23.000 That didn't get some time off for you? 1.00

03:39:25.000 No, because at this point, by the time they're going to investigate it, the financial system's starting to collapse, right?

03:39:34.000 So now they're starting to do bigger investigations.

03:39:37.000 Like, do they want the guy?

03:39:38.000 Yeah, they do get him, but not for my thing.

03:39:40.000 He had another bribery case.

03:39:42.000 Like, they come out and see me again, asking me more questions.

03:39:45.000 Yeah.

03:39:45.000 And then they actually, he goes to trial.

03:39:47.000 He loses.

03:39:47.000 He gets like three years.

03:39:48.000 You didn't get no time off?

03:39:49.000 No. 1.00

03:39:49.000 Fuck. 1.00

03:39:50.000 Okay, alright. 1.00

03:39:52.000 The thing with the proffer for the audience is that you need to be able to lead to tangible results, is the thing.

03:39:58.000 So that's what, to get the proffer benefit.

03:40:00.000 Right, technically, yeah, your information needs to lead to the arrest or the indictment arrest of- Individuals.

03:40:06.000 Or further the investigation, but they never use that.

03:40:08.000 Significantly, yeah.

03:40:10.000 Really, if you don't have a rest...

03:40:11.000 If you fight for the guy, you can do it.

03:40:13.000 But they just didn't want to fight for you.

03:40:14.000 So what ends up happening is...

03:40:16.000 Anyway, what happens is just before I go to sentencing, the U.S. prosecutor asked me to be...

03:40:22.000 So Dateline had come out.

03:40:24.000 Okay.

03:40:25.000 So the first special on you, now they're doing a second one?

03:40:28.000 They're doing a second one because this time they want to interview me.

03:40:33.000 Okay.

03:40:34.000 So the prosecutor says, we want you to be interviewed.

03:40:36.000 Okay.

03:40:37.000 So my lawyer says, you need to be interviewed.

03:40:39.000 She said she'll consider it, you'll know this term, substantial assistance.

03:40:43.000 Oh yeah, that's good.

03:40:44.000 She says, we'll consider this substantial assistance.

03:40:47.000 Okay.

03:40:47.000 You'll consider something?

03:40:48.000 Yes.

03:40:48.000 Okay.

03:40:49.000 She goes, you got to do it, Matt.

03:40:50.000 Nobody's been indicted.

03:40:51.000 Nobody's been arrested.

03:40:51.000 And you obviously got the acceptance of responsibility too, right?

03:40:54.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

03:40:55.000 You got that benefit too for pleading guilty?

03:40:56.000 And for a timely manner.

03:40:58.000 I got that one too.

03:40:59.000 All of these terms are things that they take into account when you get sentenced to lower your time.

03:41:03.000 Right.

03:41:03.000 You didn't drag it out.

03:41:04.000 Yeah, you pled guilty quickly.

03:41:05.000 This is an interesting one.

03:41:07.000 So obviously you're a famous guy now at this point, so doing the interview, that's okay.

03:41:10.000 So I do the interview, right?

03:41:12.000 That guy with the long face and the white hair.

03:41:15.000 You know what I'm talking about?

03:41:17.000 You know what I'm talking about on Dateline? 0.93

03:41:19.000 I hate that guy.

03:41:21.000 Keith Morrow or Keith something.

03:41:24.000 Someone in the chat is going to put it.

03:41:25.000 Somebody.

03:41:26.000 We can Google it real quick.

03:41:27.000 His name is something.

03:41:28.000 Yeah, it's Dateline, Keith.

03:41:31.000 I forget his name. 0.92

03:41:32.000 Oh, he's horrible.

03:41:35.000 I don't know his name. 0.96

03:41:36.000 Morrison.

03:41:36.000 Is it Keith Morrison?

03:41:37.000 Is that it?

03:41:38.000 Mm-hmm.

03:41:40.000 So, these are all people talking?

03:41:42.000 Yeah, that's...

03:41:43.000 Who was the dirty politician? 0.97

03:41:45.000 Oh, his name was Kevin White. 0.90

03:41:50.000 That was the big thing with them, by the way.

03:41:52.000 They were like, you were running a guy named Michael Kevin White, borrowing hundreds of thousands of dollars, and then the money from that scam came out, and I actually gave some of that money.

03:42:03.000 Part of that money I gave to...

03:42:05.000 To Kevin White, the real Kevin White.

03:42:06.000 Dirty money.

03:42:07.000 So they're saying, Matt, like, they're like, is it a coincidence?

03:42:11.000 They're like, that can't be a coincidence.

03:42:13.000 I'm like, it is a coincidence.

03:42:14.000 It's funny.

03:42:14.000 It actually is.

03:42:15.000 And they're telling me, this happens later when they come to see me.

03:42:17.000 Nobody liked your Quentin Tarantino joke?

03:42:20.000 No, no.

03:42:21.000 Not one of the agents left?

03:42:22.000 No.

03:42:22.000 When the FBI comes later to talk to me again, I'm in prison, they talk to me about him again, and they're trying to tell me, listen to how that conversation goes.

03:42:29.000 They go, okay, Matt, I understand.

03:42:31.000 They're like, the statute of limitations on the bribery is three years, and it's up.

03:42:35.000 And I go, okay.

03:42:36.000 They said, bank fraud, though, is five years.

03:42:40.000 I go, okay.

03:42:41.000 They said, so if Kevin White knew...

03:42:46.000 That you were running a scam in Orlando under the name Michael Kevin White, and he knew he was getting money from that scam.

03:42:54.000 He could be charged with bank fraud.

03:42:56.000 I'm like, right?

03:42:57.000 And I'm like, yeah, but he didn't know.

03:43:00.000 And he's like, they're like, okay, I understand that, but nobody on a jury would know that, would believe that.

03:43:05.000 I go, I know, but it's just a coincidence.

03:43:07.000 Like, not, like, listen, you understand?

03:43:09.000 He's trying to coax me into saying it. 0.98

03:43:11.000 Listen, if I had to do it over again, I'd be like, fuck yeah, it was his idea! 0.99

03:43:15.000 Are you serious? 0.99

03:43:17.000 Constantly talking to him about it.

03:43:18.000 He knew wire fraud.

03:43:20.000 Why are they being lazy?

03:43:20.000 They could have done wire fraud.

03:43:22.000 Idiots. 1.00

03:43:23.000 I don't know. 1.00

03:43:24.000 The point is, but at that point, I'm like, I didn't want to play that game. 0.99

03:43:29.000 You're already in jail and shit. 0.96

03:43:30.000 And I already figured they're going to get these other people that have legitimate cases. 0.99

03:43:33.000 I don't have to make something up about you.

03:43:36.000 And the thing is, literally a year later, they indict him on another bribery case.

03:43:42.000 And he goes to trial and loses.

03:43:43.000 So I'm interviewed by Dateline.

03:43:46.000 18 U.S.C. 201.

03:43:48.000 Check that, Bill.

03:43:49.000 See if I'm still good, if I remember.

03:43:50.000 18 U.S.C. 201, I think, is bribery.

03:43:52.000 How do you remember all these names, bro?

03:43:54.000 I'm good at faces.

03:43:54.000 You're good at names.

03:43:55.000 That's crazy.

03:43:57.000 Do you see paperwork as much as you've probably seen?

03:43:59.000 I really feel like I'm horrible at names.

03:44:01.000 But keep in mind, I wrote a book.

03:44:02.000 I wrote a memoir about it.

03:44:03.000 I've read it.

03:44:04.000 I've written.

03:44:04.000 I'm right?

03:44:05.000 Yeah.

03:44:05.000 Let's go.

03:44:06.000 Okay.

03:44:07.000 So I'm interviewed for Dateline.

03:44:11.000 They run the Dateline.

03:44:14.000 They run it, and a few weeks before I'm sentenced, I go to sentencing, and my lawyer calls the U.S. Attorney the day before sentencing.

03:44:23.000 And so, by the way, my PSI, my pre-sentence report says, well, it says 32 years to life, but we argue because it was like all these enhancements, and I argue the enhancements, and I get it down to 26 years. 0.97

03:44:35.000 And then my lawyer is telling me- He probably got you for head of organizational, so the bullshit.

03:44:39.000 Oh, head of organizational, changing jurisdictions, you know, everything on the run. 0.95

03:44:43.000 Right.

03:44:43.000 Change it, yeah.

03:44:44.000 So it's 26 years.

03:44:47.000 My lawyer is saying you have to plead guilty, but don't worry.

03:44:49.000 I'm going to argue these enhancements.

03:44:51.000 They don't apply to you, and I'm going to win them in front of the judge, and you're going to end up with 12 years, and then you'll get- Maybe 12, 14 years, and then you're going to get, you know, they're going to give you something for the, you know, for Dateline.

03:45:03.000 Yeah.

03:45:04.000 Because nobody's being arrested.

03:45:05.000 And I'm like, I'm like, okay, cool.

03:45:07.000 Oh, so it took time for that substantial assistance to kick in.

03:45:12.000 No.

03:45:12.000 I'll explain it to you.

03:45:13.000 I'm going to explain it to you quickly because I know we're dragging out of time.

03:45:17.000 So what happens is the night before, my lawyer calls the U.S. attorney and says, what are you going to recommend for Mr.

03:45:27.000 Cox's 5K1, which is the reduction, right?

03:45:30.000 And she says, she says, for doing Dateline.

03:45:32.000 And she goes, you know, I'm not going to recommend anything.

03:45:35.000 She goes, why?

03:45:36.000 She said, well, she said, because it's just not enough.

03:45:39.000 She said, but you said you consider it substantial assistance.

03:45:41.000 She goes, I did consider it, and it's not enough.

03:45:46.000 Right?

03:45:47.000 How sleazy is that?

03:45:49.000 She scammed you. 1.00

03:45:50.000 I mean, bro.

03:45:50.000 I did consider it.

03:45:51.000 I said I'd consider it substantial. 0.99

03:45:53.000 That's fucked up, man. 0.99

03:45:54.000 I ain't gonna lie, bro. 1.00

03:45:55.000 Damn. 1.00

03:45:56.000 She scammed you, bro. 1.00

03:45:57.000 Yeah, I know.

03:45:57.000 She got me.

03:45:58.000 Like, I can't complain right now.

03:45:59.000 I'm just like, you're not good.

03:46:00.000 You're good.

03:46:01.000 Anyway, so I get 26.

03:46:03.000 My lawyer goes in front of the judge.

03:46:04.000 She argues all these enhancements.

03:46:06.000 The judge disagrees with the entire argument, and I end up getting 26 years for $6 million.

03:46:11.000 It was $9.5 million.

03:46:12.000 I got it down to $6 million, so it's $6 million.

03:46:15.000 Which I'm good for.

03:46:16.000 So what happens is I get 26 years and then they move me to Coleman, Florida, and I go to the medium security prison, which if you've been to a medium security prison, I should not have been in a medium security prison.

03:46:33.000 Like, I'm not...

03:46:34.000 Everybody in there has been shot.

03:46:36.000 Everybody in there has sold drugs.

03:46:38.000 Everybody can tell you how to make math.

03:46:40.000 I mean, like, these are all, like, serious, serious...

03:46:43.000 A lot of the times they did max security and then they had good behavior.

03:46:47.000 Then they move them to medium security.

03:46:48.000 A lot of these guys...

03:46:49.000 Oh, wow. 0.99

03:46:49.000 So they're gangbangers and terrible people. 0.99

03:46:51.000 There's guys with life sentences.

03:46:52.000 There's guys who killed 15 people.

03:46:55.000 There's guys who, like, it's...

03:46:56.000 They behaved good and they got in there.

03:46:57.000 Right.

03:46:58.000 It's significant.

03:46:58.000 But here's why I went.

03:47:00.000 Because...

03:47:01.000 Based on the Bureau of Prisons guidelines, if you have more than 20 years to serve, you have to go to a medium.

03:47:08.000 You can't go to a low.

03:47:09.000 So you can't go to a camp unless you have less than 10 years.

03:47:13.000 So I have camp points.

03:47:16.000 I'm like a level 2.

03:47:18.000 And that's only because I had, like, a detainer, you know?

03:47:22.000 So I had to get the detainer taken off, and, like, it would have been zero.

03:47:26.000 Like, when I left prison, it was zero.

03:47:28.000 So I go there, and I've got, like, two levels.

03:47:30.000 I mean, my counselors, when they say, they're like, what are you doing here?

03:47:34.000 They're like, oh, wow, you got 26.

03:47:36.000 Oh, okay.

03:47:36.000 Yeah, yeah.

03:47:37.000 When you get below 20, we'll move you to the low.

03:47:40.000 And it's like, okay.

03:47:41.000 But honestly, I was there for three years, and it wasn't that bad.

03:47:45.000 The first day, somebody got stabbed.

03:47:47.000 People get stabbed.

03:47:48.000 But it's like being a non-enemy combatant in a war zone.

03:47:51.000 It's happening around you.

03:47:53.000 You just try not to get shrapnel, and you just deal with it.

03:47:55.000 And so I went to—I taught GED. Did you align your—because we brought 1090 Jake on, and he spent a lot of time in the state prisons of Florida.

03:48:04.000 You were federal, so I'm different.

03:48:06.000 I think he was already ganged up before that.

03:48:09.000 But with you being in the federal system, it's a little bit different.

03:48:13.000 Was there a race thing?

03:48:14.000 Were you there linking up with only the white guys?

03:48:17.000 No, because it really didn't matter.

03:48:20.000 Were the politics in your jail?

03:48:22.000 Yeah, there's, like, you know, you have cars.

03:48:24.000 They call them cars.

03:48:25.000 So you have, like, if you're from, whatever, if you're from Houston, Texas, then you're in the Houston car.

03:48:31.000 You're in the Orlando car.

03:48:33.000 Or let's say maybe it's the Florida car.

03:48:36.000 Like, it depends on how many people are there.

03:48:37.000 Like, Florida car, he's in the Georgia car, he's in the...

03:48:39.000 So you can do that, and they kind of click up and hang out.

03:48:42.000 So you click up on state, not necessarily race.

03:48:45.000 Right.

03:48:45.000 Well, some people, there are, like, Latin kings.

03:48:48.000 Of course.

03:48:48.000 There are, you know...

03:48:51.000 Bloods, Crips, all that.

03:48:52.000 Yeah, those guys are there.

03:48:56.000 But nobody wants me in a gang.

03:49:00.000 I don't want to be in a gang.

03:49:01.000 What am I going to do to your books?

03:49:03.000 I'm no good.

03:49:04.000 And because I'm educated, you have a certain status, right?

03:49:13.000 You're basically Google.

03:49:14.000 They don't have Google.

03:49:15.000 So it's, hey, Cox.

03:49:18.000 What does this mean?

03:49:19.000 What does the continental United States mean?

03:49:22.000 What does that mean?

03:49:22.000 How many states are there in the continental United States?

03:49:26.000 Or they say, hey, Cox, I don't understand this, and then they ask you.

03:49:30.000 So these questions, these normal questions, you get asked where you're like, there's 50 states.

03:49:36.000 Some are on the continent and connected, and some aren't.

03:49:40.000 And, you know, but you can't look at them like that.

03:49:42.000 Yeah, of course. 1.00

03:49:42.000 It's just shit slapped out. 1.00

03:49:43.000 You sound like you're like, oh, okay, yeah, no, I get it. 0.99

03:49:45.000 So listen, a lot of people get confused about this. 0.99

03:49:47.000 And then so you act like it's a good question, but really you're thinking, damn, oh my God. 0.93

03:49:52.000 So a lot of these people have been in prison their whole life, like even through childhood. 0.96

03:49:56.000 Yeah, they got a prison GED, right?

03:50:01.000 Where did Jordan Belfort go?

03:50:03.000 Was he in maximum, medium?

03:50:05.000 No, he went to federal, but yeah.

03:50:07.000 He went to a camp.

03:50:08.000 He did like 18 months or something.

03:50:11.000 That's it?

03:50:11.000 Yeah, for $102 million.

03:50:13.000 But he had money and he could hire a good attorney.

03:50:16.000 And it was the first time he was in trouble.

03:50:17.000 You didn't have any money?

03:50:18.000 I have no money.

03:50:19.000 All my money is...

03:50:20.000 Anyone on the run.

03:50:21.000 Yeah, and I'm on the run.

03:50:22.000 Like, I'm a bad guy.

03:50:23.000 And I was on federal probation before.

03:50:24.000 So there's no upside for me saying anything.

03:50:28.000 It's like, if you lay it out, it's all bad.

03:50:32.000 So anyway, so I'm in the medium for a while, and eventually I go to the low.

03:50:39.000 Who did you hang out with when you were in the medium?

03:50:42.000 I hung out with a guy named John Gordon, a black guy that did legal work.

03:50:46.000 A guy named Kevin Weeks, white guy that did legal work.

03:50:50.000 Kevin Weeks, Whitey Bulger? 0.93

03:50:52.000 No.

03:50:53.000 Don't look at me, bro.

03:50:53.000 I don't think he went to jail.

03:50:55.000 That ain't my family, man.

03:50:57.000 And then a guy named Zach, a buddy of mine named Zach.

03:51:00.000 His name is Isaac Allen.

03:51:02.000 They call him Zach.

03:51:03.000 And he was there for fraud.

03:51:05.000 And he'd been in and out of prison for fraud.

03:51:06.000 White collar guys, it seems like.

03:51:07.000 White collar guy.

03:51:08.000 Having a book written about him right now.

03:51:10.000 Like, listen, talk about brilliant.

03:51:12.000 Brilliant. 1.00

03:51:13.000 Probably the dumbest smart guy I know. 1.00

03:51:16.000 Do amazing scams and then go and buy a hotel room with a stolen credit card and the cops show up and arrest you. 1.00

03:51:24.000 It's like, why would you do that?

03:51:25.000 You had half a million dollars in the bank.

03:51:28.000 Well, I know, but I thought it'd be okay.

03:51:30.000 Are you okay?

03:51:31.000 You're running a scam that's bringing in $100,000 a month.

03:51:34.000 You mentioned you hung out with some guys, or you knew some guys that were in John Gotti's crew, and then also some guys that got taken down by Donnie Brasco?

03:51:40.000 Yeah, there were some guys from like the, in the Donnie Brasco, you know, when he busted, he busted like 40, 50 people, like a ton of people.

03:51:49.000 Yeah, an Italian mob, yeah.

03:51:49.000 More than you really realize in the movie.

03:51:52.000 And some of those guys were there.

03:51:53.000 It was so funny because people like Donnie Brasco would come on and guys would be like, hey, Tony!

03:51:59.000 Like, I can't remember these guys' names.

03:52:01.000 They'd go, look, Donnie Brasco!

03:52:03.000 Look at him! 1.00

03:52:04.000 That motherfucker! 1.00

03:52:05.000 And they'd go nuts! 1.00

03:52:06.000 Forget about it! 0.93

03:52:07.000 They'd go crazy.

03:52:09.000 Yeah!

03:52:10.000 It wasn't like hanging out with the mob guys.

03:52:11.000 Was it cool?

03:52:12.000 So, I didn't hang out with the guys until I went to the low.

03:52:19.000 Okay, those mob guys were in the low.

03:52:20.000 No, these guys, those guys, Adi Basco, those guys were in the medium.

03:52:23.000 But when I went to the low, I started, I like, then you're around these guys.

03:52:26.000 But they're old, like they're part of Gotti's crew.

03:52:30.000 Supposedly, you know, when Castellano got murdered, you know the guys with the hat, like supposedly two of the guys that actually killed him were there.

03:52:40.000 Now, they don't say that, but everybody else would be like, you know, so-and-so, Castellano got shot, right?

03:52:45.000 They're like, you know, so-and-so and so-and-so are two of the guys.

03:52:48.000 There's like five guys that ran up and shot him.

03:52:50.000 And just so the audience knows, Castellano was the boss of the Gambino crime family. 0.69

03:52:53.000 Before Gotti.

03:52:54.000 Before Gotti.

03:52:55.000 John Gotti had him murdered, right?

03:52:57.000 Which is a big no-no in the mafia, by the way.

03:52:59.000 John Gotti had him murdered, and the two guys that killed Paul Castellano were there with you.

03:53:03.000 Well, it's not two.

03:53:03.000 There was like five.

03:53:04.000 Two of them were there.

03:53:05.000 Yeah, and they killed him at a steakhouse in the middle of Manhattan.

03:53:08.000 Yeah, yeah.

03:53:08.000 Because he would go to the steakhouse every single Tuesday or something.

03:53:12.000 He had a pattern, and they just waited for him.

03:53:14.000 They put on these Russian hats, the fur hat, so you think they're Russians. 1.00

03:53:19.000 And then they just fucking gunned him down, and his bodyguard, they fucked him up. 1.00

03:53:23.000 Yeah, they killed them both. 1.00

03:53:24.000 Did they kill them both?

03:53:25.000 Yeah, they killed his bodyguard and Paul Costano.

03:53:27.000 That was a big no-no back at the time.

03:53:29.000 And John Gotti took power after that.

03:53:30.000 And everyone knows John Gotti killed Pio Castellano.

03:53:32.000 Everybody knows.

03:53:33.000 Well, everybody knew who was involved, too, because these two guys, like, everybody was like, they were involved.

03:53:37.000 Now, they're there for something completely different, right?

03:53:39.000 Well, they didn't actually get him for the murder.

03:53:41.000 No, they never got him for the murder.

03:53:42.000 But everybody would be like, that's the guy that's such and such.

03:53:44.000 But he's really here for tax evasion.

03:53:45.000 Yeah.

03:53:46.000 Wow.

03:53:47.000 Like, they'll get him for anything.

03:53:48.000 They'll take anything.

03:53:49.000 Yeah.

03:53:49.000 So when I went to the low, there were a bunch of other guys that were all like, they were like the, what was it, Lucchese, Crime Family, whatever.

03:54:01.000 There was guys from all the Crime Families, and they would all hook up and hang out together.

03:54:04.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

03:54:05.000 That makes sense to hang out.

03:54:06.000 Yeah.

03:54:06.000 They're all, yeah.

03:54:07.000 There's only, they're all the times.

03:54:08.000 You're 75, you're 72, you're 69, you're 74.

03:54:12.000 These guys are old.

03:54:12.000 This is the 80s we're talking about, bro.

03:54:14.000 This is the 80s, 90s when these guys were doing it.

03:54:15.000 I mean, they're around in the 70s, but.

03:54:17.000 Are they going to die in jail?

03:54:18.000 Yeah, a lot of them probably got life sentences.

03:54:20.000 Rico.

03:54:21.000 Some of them might have.

03:54:22.000 Maybe on COVID. Some of them might.

03:54:24.000 I mean, I don't know.

03:54:26.000 Rudy Giuliani put a lot of them away. 0.95

03:54:28.000 Trust me, they want them to die in jail. 0.99

03:54:30.000 These guys had sentences like Buck Rogers fucking release dates. 1.00

03:54:33.000 They were outrageous. 0.98

03:54:35.000 But COVID released a lot of people. 0.99

03:54:37.000 A lot of people, they were like, look, the guy's fucking 75. 0.98

03:54:40.000 Let him go home. 0.99

03:54:41.000 Yeah, come on, man.

03:54:42.000 You know, it's over. 1.00

03:54:42.000 He spent 20 fucking years in prison. 1.00

03:54:44.000 I know you want him to die in prison. 1.00

03:54:45.000 Give him three years out. 1.00

03:54:46.000 And listen, COVID's going to kill him in here. 0.99

03:54:48.000 Like, we can't have all these guys die in here. 0.88

03:54:50.000 The amount of people that are dying from COVID in prison.

03:54:52.000 That's how Tekashi got out, too.

03:54:53.000 A lot of guys got out from COVID. Tekashi got out, really, from COVID. It's harmless.

03:54:58.000 They're harmless at this point.

03:54:59.000 Even if you're dangerous once, you're 75, you're harmless.

03:55:02.000 And it opens them up to lawsuits, too.

03:55:05.000 Really?

03:55:06.000 Yeah.

03:55:07.000 Oh, you mean if they die in prison during COVID? Yeah, absolutely.

03:55:12.000 This guy's totally susceptible. 0.99

03:55:14.000 Yeah, it's like we don't want him to be our fucking problem. 0.99

03:55:16.000 And remember, in 2020, people are like, what the hell is this? 0.99

03:55:19.000 No one knew.

03:55:20.000 Like now, in 2020 hindsight, we're like, oh, COVID. But back then, remember, people were fucking freaking out. 0.98

03:55:24.000 Buying toilet paper and shit out of nowhere. 0.99

03:55:27.000 So I go to the low. 0.99

03:55:29.000 So the quick version is I go to the low.

03:55:32.000 And so I got 26 years.

03:55:34.000 I go to the low and so I start writing books, right?

03:55:39.000 Like I write a memoir about myself and then I end up writing a book about a memoir for a guy named Ephraim Devaroli.

03:55:47.000 Did you ever see the movie War Dogs?

03:55:50.000 Yeah, I think so.

03:55:51.000 I've heard of it.

03:55:51.000 I don't know if I've seen it in full length.

03:55:53.000 You've never seen War Dogs?

03:55:55.000 Pull it up real quick.

03:55:55.000 Pull up War Dogs.

03:55:56.000 Yeah, we'll pull it up for you.

03:55:58.000 Let's see here.

03:56:00.000 Jonah Hill plays...

03:56:02.000 Oh, yeah! 1.00

03:56:03.000 What the fuck? 1.00

03:56:03.000 Yeah, the guys that sold weapons. 1.00

03:56:04.000 Yes, yes, yes, yes.

03:56:05.000 I've seen this movie.

03:56:06.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

03:56:07.000 Oh, you know what?

03:56:09.000 David Pakows is in Miami.

03:56:12.000 You should interview him.

03:56:13.000 Okay.

03:56:14.000 Yeah, I've seen this movie, dude.

03:56:15.000 Yeah, yeah.

03:56:16.000 So, Pakows is played by this guy, Miles Teller.

03:56:20.000 Jewish guy, right?

03:56:21.000 Yeah.

03:56:22.000 Packhouse.

03:56:22.000 Yeah.

03:56:22.000 Okay, so...

03:56:23.000 I know, yeah.

03:56:24.000 So, listen, he's great.

03:56:26.000 Yeah.

03:56:27.000 Anyway...

03:56:27.000 He's bald now, right?

03:56:28.000 If I'm not mistaken?

03:56:29.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

03:56:29.000 I know exactly what you're talking about.

03:56:30.000 Yeah.

03:56:31.000 So, anyway...

03:56:32.000 I'll reach out to him.

03:56:33.000 We'll make it happen.

03:56:34.000 Yeah, I got that as information, bro.

03:56:36.000 He's, like, right down the street.

03:56:37.000 Okay, awesome.

03:56:38.000 So what ends up happening is I get a couple guys in, like, Rolling Stone magazine.

03:56:45.000 I write a book for them.

03:56:46.000 I option their life rights.

03:56:48.000 I write Devaroli's memoir.

03:56:52.000 He basically screws me over.

03:56:54.000 But I end up suing him from prison. 1.00

03:56:57.000 Oh, shit. 0.99

03:56:57.000 Yeah, we settle when I get out. 0.99

03:56:58.000 But this is towards the end.

03:57:00.000 Like, I start writing guys' stories from inside prison.

03:57:03.000 And getting articles written.

03:57:05.000 I'm working with true crime writers on the street.

03:57:07.000 So I'm doing all of this.

03:57:08.000 So that Dateline interview did help?

03:57:11.000 No!

03:57:12.000 It didn't?

03:57:12.000 People didn't like...

03:57:13.000 No, I mean as in it didn't get you the attention that you wanted and stuff?

03:57:17.000 No, because I don't need attention.

03:57:19.000 I'm in there with criminals.

03:57:20.000 You can't write your story. 1.00

03:57:21.000 You're a bank robber. 0.98

03:57:23.000 You rob six banks. 1.00

03:57:24.000 I can write your story.

03:57:25.000 You can't.

03:57:26.000 So I write your story, and then maybe I start sending it out to true crime writers, and they're just like, there's a guy in prison writing true crime.

03:57:33.000 That's nuts. 0.99

03:57:35.000 And you're shopping it around for them and shit. 1.00

03:57:37.000 You're wheeling and dealing. 0.98

03:57:38.000 And I'm getting everybody to attach their life rights to the project so you can't do anything.

03:57:43.000 Like, now I own your life rights.

03:57:45.000 Gotcha.

03:57:45.000 Right.

03:57:46.000 So if, and the life rights is like, I don't, I own them, but you get half of whatever I get, right?

03:57:51.000 So if I option it, you get half the option, you know, that whole thing.

03:57:53.000 So I'm collecting, I write like seven books and a bunch of synopses, and I'm working with people on the street.

03:58:01.000 So this is all going on.

03:58:04.000 Then American Greed contacts me.

03:58:06.000 Okay.

03:58:07.000 American Greed is like Dateline, right?

03:58:08.000 But even worse.

03:58:10.000 So American Greed contacts me and I call my attorney and she says, I know what you're calling about.

03:58:16.000 Like, American Greed, the U.S. attorney's already called.

03:58:18.000 She wants you to do it.

03:58:19.000 She said she'll consider it substantial assistance.

03:58:21.000 Of course.

03:58:23.000 And I'm like, oh, she said that last time.

03:58:25.000 She's like, what choice do you have?

03:58:26.000 And it's like, you're right. 0.99

03:58:27.000 I don't have a fucking choice. 0.98

03:58:28.000 So I do the interview. 0.99

03:58:29.000 What year is this now?

03:58:32.000 2010?

03:58:34.000 2009 or 10.

03:58:36.000 So you've been in jail for about three years now?

03:58:37.000 Yes.

03:58:38.000 Okay.

03:58:38.000 How long were you in the medium before you went to the low?

03:58:40.000 Three years.

03:58:41.000 And I was locked up for a year in the U.S. Marshall.

03:58:43.000 So I've been locked up for going on five years.

03:58:46.000 Okay.

03:58:46.000 So they do American Greed.

03:58:49.000 Yeah, because you didn't get Bond.

03:58:50.000 No.

03:58:51.000 They run it or air it.

03:58:54.000 We go back to the U.S. Attorney.

03:58:55.000 We say, hey, we got Dateline and American Greed.

03:58:57.000 You said you'd consider substantial assistance.

03:58:59.000 And she goes, and I did.

03:59:01.000 It's just not enough.

03:59:03.000 Wow, again. 1.00

03:59:04.000 This fucking AUSA is a bitch, bro. 1.00

03:59:06.000 Keep in mind the Dodd-Frank Act has just passed. 1.00

03:59:09.000 So now all loan officers and mortgage brokers have to take eight or nine hours of continuing education.

03:59:17.000 So I get contacted by a school that teaches these courses, and they said, we want to write a course based on your experience for ethics and fraud.

03:59:26.000 And I go, okay, so that guy goes to the U.S. attorney with my lawyer.

03:59:32.000 She says I want him to do it.

03:59:34.000 I'll definitely consider it substantial assistance.

03:59:36.000 We've got an email that says it, everything.

03:59:38.000 But once again, it's consider...

03:59:41.000 And so I write the ethics and fraud course.

03:59:44.000 They start using it.

03:59:45.000 Like people are calling my ex-wife going, I just got my – I just did my continuing education course, and half the course is on your husband.

03:59:52.000 He wrote the course.

03:59:53.000 So it's being used.

03:59:55.000 We go back to the U.S. attorney.

03:59:57.000 She says, yeah, it's not enough.

03:59:58.000 Oh my god.

03:59:59.000 So at some point, I end up going to a guy.

04:00:01.000 His name is Frank Amadeo.

04:00:03.000 He's a rapid cycling bipolar with features of schizophrenia.

04:00:07.000 He's doing legal work in prison.

04:00:09.000 He's a disbarred attorney who got 22 years for...

04:00:14.000 The short version is defrauding or stealing nearly $200 million from the federal government.

04:00:23.000 Frank...

04:00:25.000 Back to Ku in the Congo. 0.95

04:00:27.000 Frank is, like I said, he's got features of schizophrenia, so he believes that God is telling him he is preordained to be emperor of the world.

04:00:36.000 Okay.

04:00:36.000 Make that make sense to me.

04:00:38.000 You?

04:00:38.000 Okay.

04:00:39.000 No, he, Frank, here's the voice of God telling him, someday, or you are preordained, you will be emperor of the world.

04:00:47.000 Not ruler, not emperor.

04:00:50.000 So, I don't even talk to this guy for a couple years, by the way, while I'm at the low.

04:00:54.000 Yeah.

04:00:55.000 But after I get to a point where I've done all this stuff, I've been pimped out, I finally have a buddy of mine who says, bro, go talk to Frank. 0.96

04:01:03.000 And I wouldn't have given a shit, like I would have never even tried, because Frank was, I just considered him insane. 0.99

04:01:11.000 And I'd seen him act insane. 0.99

04:01:14.000 But literally when you're hearing guys' names being called to R&D, receiving a departure, and you see, you know, T-Dog walking down the strip towards R&D with his bags over his shoulder. 0.98

04:01:30.000 And you're like, what the fuck's going on? 0.88

04:01:31.000 He's like, yeah, bro. 0.99

04:01:32.000 Immediate release.

04:01:33.000 What?

04:01:34.000 Yeah, Frank won his case.

04:01:35.000 What?

04:01:36.000 And then a week later, your buddy comes up and says, hey, you know Tom in Unit B3? Yeah, yeah.

04:01:43.000 Frank just got 10 years knocked off his sentence. 1.00

04:01:45.000 Get the fuck out of here. 0.99

04:01:46.000 Yeah, they're going to put him in a halfway house in about six months. 1.00

04:01:48.000 Holy shit. 0.99

04:01:48.000 What? 0.99

04:01:49.000 So you became a believer?

04:01:50.000 Listen, you see that after a year or so, you go, I think I need to talk to Frank. 0.52

04:01:55.000 Crazy or not.

04:01:56.000 So I go, and I talk to Frank, and I explain the situation to him.

04:01:59.000 I show him the documents.

04:02:00.000 I show him the emails.

04:02:01.000 I show him everything that I did.

04:02:02.000 And he says, I'm not going to let this happen.

04:02:05.000 This is disgusting.

04:02:06.000 And he says, you know, and when my legions march on Washington... 0.97

04:02:15.000 I'm gonna burn the Constitution and the President will kneel at my feet!

04:02:22.000 And I'm staring at my buddy who told me this guy should do my legal work, and he's like, just calm down.

04:02:27.000 And Frank goes...

04:02:30.000 I'm sorry.

04:02:31.000 I'm going to need a 2255 form.

04:02:33.000 Tell Jimmy that I'm going to need him to type up a motion for...

04:02:37.000 And he just starts rambling. 0.97

04:02:38.000 And people are like, guys grab their shit and start writing down notes. 1.00

04:02:40.000 And I'm like, the fuck is going on? 0.99

04:02:42.000 He's like, I'm going to need your transcripts. 0.97

04:02:43.000 I'm going to need a copy of your judgment commitment.

04:02:45.000 I'm going to need a copy of...

04:02:46.000 And he starts telling me everything and they're all writing it down.

04:02:49.000 Genius.

04:02:49.000 And I'm going, I'm doing all my time.

04:02:52.000 Like, these guys can't help me.

04:02:54.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

04:02:54.000 So the short version is Frank files a 2255, right?

04:02:59.000 Which is...

04:03:00.000 Basically saying that your lawyer is ineffective is what it says.

04:03:04.000 He switches it a little bit, which is not your lawyer is ineffective.

04:03:07.000 Your lawyer didn't understand the law, which is different.

04:03:11.000 And he's saying my lawyer didn't understand the law because my lawyer told me to cooperate.

04:03:17.000 Yeah.

04:03:18.000 And she thought that doing these interviews would be substantial assistance, which they're not.

04:03:26.000 Because as you said earlier, if you read the statute, substantial assistance is when you help the government get indictments.

04:03:35.000 And she told me that wasn't what – now, she told me because you're a prosecutor, but that doesn't matter.

04:03:40.000 In the court of law, it works well.

04:03:41.000 So we start going back and forth, back and forth over the course of six months, and eventually – the short version is eventually the court issues me an attorney and says, we're going to reduce your sentence.

04:03:54.000 And they say they want one level off, which is only like – 30 months or something like that.

04:04:01.000 It's like 30 months off.

04:04:03.000 Two years.

04:04:03.000 Two and a half years.

04:04:04.000 Right.

04:04:04.000 It's nothing.

04:04:04.000 Yeah.

04:04:06.000 But what they do is they basically say, but we'll bring you back to court.

04:04:12.000 Okay.

04:04:12.000 So they bring me back to court.

04:04:13.000 I argue.

04:04:14.000 My new attorney argues in front of... 0.99

04:04:16.000 And listen, Millie, my old lawyer, gets on the fucking stand. 1.00

04:04:20.000 You understand? 0.99

04:04:20.000 The FBI agent? 0.99

04:04:21.000 There was an FBI agent that kept coming to see me, trying to build a case, but it never happened.

04:04:26.000 She comes and gets on the stand.

04:04:27.000 I'm like, everybody's coming.

04:04:29.000 On your behalf, okay.

04:04:29.000 Everybody.

04:04:30.000 And the judge says, you know...

04:04:34.000 Mr.

04:04:34.000 Cox, like, we're asking for like 13 years off.

04:04:36.000 It's not going to happen.

04:04:38.000 And the prosecutor's asking for, you know, two years, right?

04:04:41.000 Two years and change.

04:04:42.000 Two and a half years.

04:04:43.000 And he's like, the prosecution's asking for two and a half years.

04:04:47.000 That's not nearly enough for what Mr.

04:04:49.000 Cox has done.

04:04:50.000 He's like, but Mr.

04:04:51.000 Cox, he's like, you're asking for 13 years.

04:04:52.000 That was never going to happen.

04:04:54.000 And I'm like, oh my God.

04:04:56.000 And so he gives me, he says, I'm going to give you three levels off, and that ends up being seven years.

04:05:03.000 That's seven years.

04:05:04.000 Seven years.

04:05:05.000 So three levels is seven years.

04:05:06.000 It keeps going down incrementally.

04:05:08.000 A little over half.

04:05:09.000 Yeah.

04:05:10.000 So if one level is 30 months, the next level down might be 29 or 28.

04:05:14.000 The next level down might be 20.

04:05:15.000 See what I'm saying?

04:05:16.000 It keeps going down.

04:05:16.000 So it ends up being, yeah, seven years off.

04:05:19.000 So I go back to court.

04:05:21.000 I mean, I'm sorry.

04:05:21.000 I'm sorry.

04:05:22.000 I come back and, you know, I got seven years off my sentence, right?

04:05:25.000 Like, I've already done seven years.

04:05:27.000 So I got seven.

04:05:28.000 So I got like eight or nine years left.

04:05:29.000 Yeah.

04:05:30.000 Okay.

04:05:30.000 Like, that's it.

04:05:31.000 That's what it is.

04:05:31.000 Now, I didn't think I could do seven years to begin with.

04:05:33.000 I've already done seven.

04:05:34.000 So it's like, I can do this.

04:05:35.000 And I've been writing all these stories.

04:05:37.000 And I'm getting money sent in.

04:05:39.000 And I'm building like a body of work.

04:05:41.000 And I figure I can get out.

04:05:43.000 Maybe I'll...

04:05:43.000 How old are you at that time, roughly?

04:05:45.000 Bro, I'm old, bro.

04:05:46.000 Like, I'm...

04:05:47.000 What was I, like 40...

04:05:50.000 I was like 45.

04:05:54.000 I'm like 45 at this point.

04:05:57.000 Anyway, so I get back and that's it.

04:06:01.000 I've got like seven more years.

04:06:05.000 I've got seven or eight more years.

04:06:07.000 And listen, by the way, so now I'm at the low.

04:06:10.000 Everybody knows I went back to court.

04:06:13.000 Everybody knows I got my sentence.

04:06:16.000 So now I'm a snitch walking around the compound.

04:06:19.000 Oh, they assumed you were a snitch.

04:06:21.000 Well, I was a snitch.

04:06:24.000 It's like guys that say, oh, I didn't tell on nobody.

04:06:28.000 Because the FBI went over there and testified on your behalf, too.

04:06:31.000 They just know.

04:06:33.000 Cox went back.

04:06:35.000 Time off.

04:06:35.000 You can ask anybody to take a look at the BOP website.

04:06:42.000 Seven years just knocked off his sentence.

04:06:43.000 Something happened.

04:06:45.000 Anyway, so that's not good.

04:06:47.000 Not that anybody's bothering me.

04:06:49.000 But it's kind of known.

04:06:51.000 And they don't really say anything.

04:06:52.000 But everybody knows.

04:06:53.000 And some people just blatantly know.

04:06:55.000 I've had a conversation with them.

04:06:56.000 I've told them what happened.

04:06:58.000 But they also think to themselves, hey, he didn't really snitch on anybody because nobody got arrested.

04:07:05.000 Like, he got it off for these interviews and writing that ethics course.

04:07:11.000 They're like, okay, that's kind of like a Frank Abagnale thing, right?

04:07:13.000 Like, kiss me if he can.

04:07:14.000 That's okay.

04:07:15.000 So they're kind of okay with it, whatever.

04:07:16.000 And I've been there so long. 1.00

04:07:18.000 Fuck them. 1.00

04:07:20.000 So I come back, and I remember I went to Frank Amadeo. 1.00

04:07:25.000 You're probably the OG there, because the seven years in the low is very...

04:07:28.000 Yeah, most guys are there to do their last two to three years.

04:07:31.000 Yeah, they're not there too long.

04:07:33.000 Unless you're really old.

04:07:35.000 So anyway, I go to Frank, and I remember I told Frank, I said, Frank, as soon as I got out from the bus, I went straight and found him.

04:07:41.000 I said, hey, and he already knew how much time I got off.

04:07:44.000 I said, hey, I got seven years off.

04:07:46.000 He said, yeah, I know, I heard.

04:07:47.000 And I said, I don't want to, it's not that I'm not appreciative, but I was really hoping for more.

04:07:54.000 And I said, so was I, so was I. He said, we're probably going to have to eat this elephant one spoonful at a time.

04:08:05.000 He said, keep your ears open.

04:08:07.000 He said, something will happen. 0.99

04:08:09.000 And I went, and I thought, oh, I don't know what the fuck that means. 0.95

04:08:13.000 But I'm like, okay, okay. 0.89

04:08:15.000 So, I leave.

04:08:19.000 You know, I'm walking around over the next few months, and there was a guy named Ron Wilson there.

04:08:27.000 So, Ron Wilson had stolen, it was a $100 million Ponzi scheme.

04:08:34.000 Mm-hmm.

04:08:35.000 But he'd actually just stolen...

04:08:37.000 It was actually just lost like $57 million, right?

04:08:40.000 Gone.

04:08:41.000 Blown it over the course of 15 years.

04:08:43.000 And the bulk of them came from pension funds, retirees, churches.

04:08:49.000 Like...

04:08:52.000 Just, you know, vicious.

04:08:54.000 Like, everything about him was vicious. 0.59

04:08:56.000 But, you know, so he was an old con man, right?

04:08:58.000 He was like 63, 64, I think, something like that.

04:09:02.000 But I liked Ron, you know?

04:09:05.000 I hung out with him. 1.00

04:09:07.000 We would talk, shoot the shit. 1.00

04:09:09.000 He knew I went back. 1.00

04:09:10.000 He'd been locked up maybe about a year and a half.

04:09:15.000 And he was cooperating with the Secret Service...

04:09:20.000 Against people that had helped him in his fraud and other frauds.

04:09:26.000 So he's cooperating.

04:09:29.000 And I say this because that's just what happened.

04:09:36.000 But had Ron Wilson been a 22-year-old kid...

04:09:42.000 Nothing would have changed from what I'm about to tell you. 0.93

04:09:45.000 So I'm walking around the compound with Ron Wilson, and we're walking and talking, and he's saying to me, well, he's talking about his case, whatever, and he says, yeah, He said, ah, the fucking FBI, or the Secret Service, like, they're never going to reduce my sentence, even if they arrest all these people.

04:10:06.000 And I go, why do you say that? 0.62

04:10:08.000 He's like, well, you don't understand.

04:10:10.000 They think I've hidden Ponzi scheme money.

04:10:13.000 I'm like, okay, well, they would have to find the Ponzi scheme money to prove that, so they have to give you something.

04:10:18.000 And if not, we'll have Frank file a motion.

04:10:21.000 And he's like, yeah, you don't understand.

04:10:23.000 I'm like, okay, whatever. 0.51

04:10:25.000 He's a grumpy old guy.

04:10:26.000 And so we're walking around, and then he, two weeks later, he mentions it again.

04:10:30.000 A couple days later, he mentions it again.

04:10:31.000 And I go, why do you keep saying this, bro?

04:10:33.000 Like, you didn't hide any Ponzi scheme money, so that's not, there's no way for them to withhold your sentence reduction for that.

04:10:40.000 And he goes...

04:10:43.000 Can I trust you?

04:10:44.000 And I go, probably not.

04:10:46.000 And he goes, I did put away some money.

04:10:50.000 I knew it.

04:10:51.000 And I went, okay.

04:10:53.000 I said, Well, I mean, are they going to find it?

04:10:58.000 So I gave my wife like $100,000 or $150,000 in cash and some bullion and gold because this whole scheme was based on silver, right?

04:11:08.000 I gave her some gold and silver and maybe $150,000 total.

04:11:13.000 And my brother's got maybe $20,000 or $30,000.

04:11:15.000 I said...

04:11:16.000 I said, okay, well, you said they've already talked to them and they denied having anything.

04:11:20.000 And he's like, yeah, they did.

04:11:21.000 Sorry.

04:11:23.000 And he says, yeah, they did.

04:11:25.000 I said, okay, well, they're not going to now tell them.

04:11:28.000 And he's like, my wife knows.

04:11:33.000 That my brother has some money.

04:11:35.000 And he said, my wife, his wife in the course of the investigation found out he was having an affair.

04:11:40.000 And my wife, she's bipolar. 1.00

04:11:44.000 You have no idea how crazy she is. 0.99

04:11:46.000 She'll burn the whole house around her. 1.00

04:11:48.000 She doesn't care.

04:11:49.000 She's going to make sure I don't get out of prison.

04:11:51.000 And they're currently getting a divorce. 1.00

04:11:52.000 Damn. 1.00

04:11:53.000 And I'm like, fuck, bro. 1.00

04:11:55.000 And I'm like, well, she ended up getting indicted if she told. 1.00

04:12:00.000 So I doubt that's going to happen.

04:12:01.000 Oh, you don't understand.

04:12:02.000 Okay.

04:12:02.000 So we keep walking.

04:12:04.000 And the government didn't want to give me anything to begin with, remember?

04:12:10.000 And when I got to court, they argued for me to get nothing, like one level.

04:12:14.000 So I'm thinking to myself, like, is what he told me enough to get a sentence reduction? 0.99

04:12:20.000 Oh, shit. 0.99

04:12:21.000 So if I tell on old Ron, is that enough? 1.00

04:12:26.000 And I went, that's not enough.

04:12:29.000 They're going to recover what?

04:12:31.000 Less than $200,000?

04:12:32.000 That's if these people give it up?

04:12:34.000 And then if I tell, he's going to know, I told.

04:12:37.000 And I'm going to get shipped.

04:12:38.000 And my mother comes to see me every two weeks.

04:12:42.000 I can't get moved from this location. 0.96

04:12:46.000 I'm already in a—they're already trying to send me to a fucking camp because now I have less than seven years—I have seven or eight years to go. 1.00

04:12:53.000 I'm like, fuck. 0.99

04:12:54.000 Like, I can't say anything. 1.00

04:12:56.000 Okay.

04:12:56.000 I lay down in bed.

04:12:57.000 I wait.

04:12:59.000 It's like a month and a half, maybe a month.

04:13:02.000 And I have to call my lawyer because I had written my memoir, but I hadn't had it published, and I wanted to get some of the transcripts, right, from my sentencing because the FBI said cool things.

04:13:13.000 Like, people said some good stuff.

04:13:14.000 Yeah.

04:13:14.000 So, okay.

04:13:16.000 So I call her up.

04:13:17.000 I said, hey, I never got the transcripts.

04:13:18.000 You said you were going to send me the transcripts.

04:13:19.000 And she's like, oh, Matt, I'm so sorry.

04:13:21.000 I had to wait a few weeks for them to get ordered.

04:13:23.000 This is literally within a month or two of me coming back.

04:13:26.000 She's like, you're right.

04:13:27.000 They should be done.

04:13:28.000 I'll send them to you.

04:13:29.000 I go, okay, okay.

04:13:30.000 I go, okay, well, thanks.

04:13:31.000 I said, all right, I'll talk to you later.

04:13:33.000 And she goes, oh, what's going on?

04:13:35.000 So what do you mean?

04:13:35.000 She goes, what's happening?

04:13:37.000 What's happening?

04:13:38.000 So she didn't want to talk to me ever.

04:13:40.000 She's a public defender. 0.96

04:13:42.000 And I'm like, I don't know, nothing.

04:13:44.000 She has nothing happening there? 0.71

04:13:45.000 And I went, no.

04:13:47.000 I said, you know what?

04:13:49.000 Listen to this.

04:13:50.000 There's a guy named Ron Wilson.

04:13:52.000 He told me where he hid Ponzi scheme money.

04:13:55.000 She goes, hold on.

04:13:57.000 She goes, oh, wow.

04:13:59.000 This is a bad guy.

04:14:00.000 This is like a $100 million Ponzi scheme.

04:14:01.000 How much was it?

04:14:02.000 I go, no, I don't want to say over the phone, but it wasn't a lot.

04:14:05.000 It wasn't a lot.

04:14:06.000 She goes, okay, well, let me look into this for you.

04:14:07.000 And I went...

04:14:09.000 Okay.

04:14:10.000 Like, I'm thinking, I'll never hear from this chick again. 0.74

04:14:12.000 I'm going to get my transcript and never hear from her again.

04:14:14.000 Hang up the phone.

04:14:15.000 A week, maybe four or five days later, a CO comes up to me and goes, Cox, you've got to go to SIS. SIS is like their internal security.

04:14:22.000 I go, next move, because they have control movements, you've got to go to SIS. I go, alright, cool, whatever.

04:14:27.000 Like, he does it on the down low, right?

04:14:28.000 Because you don't want to be seen going to SIS. Yeah, that's like their intel people too.

04:14:32.000 Right, it's like you're a snitch if you go. 1.00

04:14:34.000 But what do I give a fuck? 1.00

04:14:36.000 So, I go... 1.00

04:14:38.000 To SIS. I knock on the door.

04:14:39.000 They go, Cox, come in here. 0.53

04:14:40.000 Sit down.

04:14:40.000 I sit down.

04:14:42.000 The fucking lieutenant calls, dials the phone number, says, here, you've got to talk to this guy. 1.00

04:14:45.000 And I go, hello? 1.00

04:14:45.000 And the guy goes, hey, my name's agent, like, Griffin, something Griffin, with the Secret Service. 1.00

04:14:54.000 And I understand that you know where Ron Wilson hid Ponzi scheme money.

04:14:56.000 And I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

04:14:57.000 I said, I want something in writing that says, and I tell him, blah, blah, blah.

04:15:03.000 And he goes, okay, okay.

04:15:04.000 First he tries to tell me, oh, I promise you'll get something.

04:15:07.000 I said, no, your word doesn't mean anything.

04:15:09.000 No, no, I need a U.S. prosecutor.

04:15:11.000 You're legally allowed to lie to me.

04:15:13.000 So anyway, he ends up sending me something like two, three weeks later, and then they start asking me questions, and I answer the questions. 0.99

04:15:21.000 And they're asking me questions, by the way, about all kinds of shit. 0.96

04:15:25.000 Can you ask Ron Wilson this? 0.99

04:15:26.000 I'm like, how the fuck am I going to ask him that? 0.93

04:15:28.000 I don't even know who that person is. 0.96

04:15:29.000 I'm going to bring up something he's never mentioned? 0.99

04:15:31.000 Are you trying to get me fucking stabbed? 1.00

04:15:33.000 Are you trying to get me killed? 1.00

04:15:35.000 But this goes on for like six months.

04:15:37.000 And then one day, they call in the brother and the wife.

04:15:44.000 And the brother gives them...

04:15:48.000 $150,000, not 30.

04:15:50.000 And the wife comes in and gives them like $350,000.

04:15:53.000 That was a half a million dollars. 1.00

04:15:55.000 Oh shit. 0.99

04:15:56.000 And so they're like, so Ron, one day, I know this has happened. 1.00

04:16:03.000 They're telling me that we brought them in.

04:16:04.000 This is what happened.

04:16:05.000 Boom, boom, boom. 1.00

04:16:05.000 I'm like, oh shit. 1.00

04:16:06.000 They're like, they're being indicted. 0.99

04:16:09.000 Wilson's going to get indicted again. 1.00

04:16:10.000 I'm like, oh fuck. 0.99

04:16:11.000 Like I really didn't think they'd indict him because he's already got 19 and a half years. 1.00

04:16:15.000 He's going to die in prison.

04:16:16.000 Yeah.

04:16:17.000 And so, okay, no big deal.

04:16:19.000 So I go, oh, okay. 0.99

04:16:21.000 And so I'm thinking, fuck, how is this going to affect me? 0.98

04:16:24.000 Are they going to move me? 0.99

04:16:25.000 Because to be honest, I don't really think they're going to fucking do anything for me. 0.85

04:16:29.000 And so what happens is one day Ron, a week later, Ron sees me from across the compound. 0.94

04:16:36.000 He goes, Cox! 0.92

04:16:37.000 Cox! 1.00

04:16:37.000 And I'm like, fuck. 1.00

04:16:40.000 This ain't good. 1.00

04:16:41.000 I mean, look, he's an old man.

04:16:43.000 But at this point, like I said, he's 65, 63, 64, something like that.

04:16:48.000 But it doesn't matter.

04:16:49.000 He might attack me.

04:16:51.000 I'll go to the shoe.

04:16:53.000 I can't have him running around telling people this.

04:16:56.000 It's not good for me.

04:16:57.000 Not that it's going to change much, but I could get shipped.

04:17:00.000 And so he's, Cox, Cox.

04:17:01.000 And I'm like, yeah, what's up?

04:17:03.000 What's going on?

04:17:03.000 He's like...

04:17:07.000 No!

04:17:09.000 No!

04:17:10.000 Why?

04:17:13.000 It turns out that they interviewed my wife and my brother and they gave him half a million dollars.

04:17:19.000 I go, half a million dollars?

04:17:22.000 And I go, I thought it was like a couple hundred thousand or something like that.

04:17:25.000 And he goes, well, I didn't want to tell you the exact number.

04:17:29.000 He's like, I didn't trust you.

04:17:30.000 And I go, Ron, how could you not trust me?

04:17:37.000 So, listen, this is real.

04:17:39.000 I could tell you about being and having to join a gang and getting in knife fights and stuff, but this is really prison.

04:17:44.000 So, yeah, so he ends up – he goes, yeah, they're bringing me back to South Carolina.

04:17:50.000 So they put him on a bus a couple days later.

04:17:52.000 They bring him back to South Carolina.

04:17:53.000 During that stay, he gets his discovery. 1.00

04:17:56.000 Oh, shit. 0.99

04:17:57.000 His discovery has quite a few emails between Matt Cox, his buddy, and the Secret Service. 1.00

04:18:02.000 There you go. 1.00

04:18:03.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

04:18:03.000 So he finds out it's you. 1.00

04:18:05.000 Yeah, he finds out it's me.

04:18:06.000 So what happens is...

04:18:09.000 Why do they do that, though, Myron?

04:18:11.000 Why do they tell the person who's actually telling on them?

04:18:15.000 Why did you do that?

04:18:16.000 You have to.

04:18:16.000 You got time off.

04:18:17.000 No, no, no.

04:18:18.000 They're telling Ron that he did it.

04:18:20.000 Well, because it's part of your discovery.

04:18:21.000 He has to be able to mount a defense.

04:18:23.000 What if he wants to go to trial?

04:18:24.000 Look, the Constitution even says you have to be able to face your accusers.

04:18:31.000 So I'm one of the accusers.

04:18:32.000 And I get it.

04:18:35.000 That's how he knew who snitched on him is because when he got all of the reports back from Secret Service, everything they did in their case shows everybody that cooperated against them.

04:18:42.000 And the fact is that if you cooperate against somebody, there's lots of people that want to cooperate and they don't want to be called a snitch.

04:18:48.000 Okay, well, you know, you have to balance that.

04:18:50.000 You have to balance, like, do I earn the respect of my fellow criminals?

04:18:56.000 Or do I get fucking a chunk of time off my sentence? 0.92

04:18:59.000 You gotta take it off and go home, sir. 0.93

04:19:01.000 Hey, Chad, just so you guys know, we're gonna do FNF News shortly here.

04:19:04.000 We're gonna wrap up here.

04:19:05.000 Don't worry. 0.54

04:19:05.000 I know you guys are probably like, yo, what the hell? 0.54

04:19:07.000 Don't worry.

04:19:08.000 We're gonna do the new FNF News, but this is a great story.

04:19:09.000 I don't want to interrupt it.

04:19:10.000 Yeah, I can wrap it up real quick.

04:19:12.000 Go ahead, go ahead.

04:19:12.000 So what ends up happening is...

04:19:14.000 So he gets superseded, indicted.

04:19:16.000 They send him back to South Carolina.

04:19:18.000 Yeah, he gets six more months on his sentence.

04:19:20.000 Okay.

04:19:20.000 That's it.

04:19:21.000 So he gets 20 years now.

04:19:21.000 Right.

04:19:22.000 And listen, COVID hits.

04:19:24.000 Oh.

04:19:25.000 They release him. 1.00

04:19:26.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

04:19:27.000 Wilson only does like six or seven years on his whole sentence, on a 20-year sentence. 1.00

04:19:31.000 Wow.

04:19:31.000 So my six months didn't do anything.

04:19:33.000 Now his wife and his brother are indicted, and they're given community service.

04:19:39.000 Okay, that makes sense.

04:19:40.000 They just held the money.

04:19:41.000 For, what do they call it?

04:19:44.000 Obstruction of justice.

04:19:45.000 Yeah.

04:19:45.000 Right.

04:19:45.000 They had the money.

04:19:46.000 They got a bullshit charge. 0.94

04:19:47.000 Now, I, of course, go back to the U.S. attorney and say, hey, I want my sentence reduced. 0.53

04:19:52.000 And I even have a letter that says that the U.S. attorney said they would reduce it.

04:19:55.000 And the U.S. attorney says, we don't know what you're talking about.

04:19:58.000 Yeah, because another district you helped out.

04:20:00.000 Right, it was another district.

04:20:01.000 Yeah.

04:20:01.000 So we ended up sending, but still, they're like, what?

04:20:04.000 That's crazy.

04:20:05.000 And we're like, no, no.

04:20:06.000 So we have the letter, we send it.

04:20:07.000 There's a lot of back and forth, but they basically, at some point, they finally say, okay, fine, we'll reduce your sentence.

04:20:12.000 We're going to give you one level.

04:20:13.000 We argue, Frank and I argue, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and they end up knocking five years off my sentence.

04:20:20.000 Nice.

04:20:20.000 So now I've got a total of 12 months off my sentence, and by the time that happens, I'm like a year and a half away from the door.

04:20:27.000 Oh, wow.

04:20:28.000 So I get out of prison like a year and a half later.

04:20:32.000 I go to the halfway house. 0.99

04:20:34.000 And that's...

04:20:35.000 So I go to the halfway house. 0.88

04:20:37.000 I do seven months in the halfway house.

04:20:39.000 And then I move out of the halfway house. 0.98

04:20:41.000 And I end up going...

04:20:42.000 I move into somebody's spare room.

04:20:46.000 And, you know, whatever.

04:20:48.000 I start going on podcasts.

04:20:50.000 I go to Concrete.

04:20:51.000 I get like...

04:20:52.000 Do you have your own channel?

04:20:53.000 You have a true crime channel now on YouTube?

04:20:54.000 Right.

04:20:55.000 Yeah, I was going to say, I go on Concrete, I get like 2 million views, I go on Patrick Bet David, I get another 2 million views, I go on, you know, I start getting all these, and then I start my own true crime podcast.

04:21:05.000 Yeah, and I just started that like four years ago.

04:21:07.000 Wow.

04:21:08.000 And then I've got, I optioned my life rights recently, and optioned a bunch of my stories.

04:21:15.000 You got married again?

04:21:16.000 I got married to a chick in the halfway house who did five years for a meth conspiracy who desperately didn't want to date me. 0.98

04:21:26.000 She didn't do the meth, guys. 0.99

04:21:28.000 She sold the meth.

04:21:29.000 You're a smooth talker, though.

04:21:31.000 You're a smooth talker, man.

04:21:32.000 You got it.

04:21:33.000 Yeah, she's super cool. 0.99

04:21:36.000 Super happy.

04:21:39.000 That's a crazy story, man.

04:21:40.000 I gotta give that a thumbs up, man.

04:21:42.000 I mean, this is a movie.

04:21:45.000 Literally, bro.

04:21:46.000 He told you he was gonna make one.

04:21:48.000 Yeah, yeah.

04:21:49.000 No, Matt, I wish we had a little bit more time, man.

04:21:52.000 No, that was awesome.

04:21:54.000 Can you tell the people where they can find you?

04:21:57.000 Yeah, it's Matthew Cox, Inside True Crime.

04:21:59.000 And basically, 95% of it is me interviewing long-form content where I interview other criminals.

04:22:07.000 And then I also interview law enforcement like retired FBI, former CIA, that sort of thing.

04:22:14.000 Periodically.

04:22:14.000 I'll jump on your thing, bro.

04:22:16.000 Yeah, I was going to say, you should...

04:22:18.000 I mean, that's the least I could do, obviously.

04:22:21.000 Is he really going to...

04:22:22.000 No, I will.

04:22:23.000 I'll do it, bro.

04:22:23.000 I'll do it.

04:22:24.000 I did Johnny Mitchell.

04:22:25.000 You know what I mean?

04:22:26.000 I don't mind going in and definitely talking about that other life that I used to have when I was in law enforcement.

04:22:32.000 So no, I think the people would like it.

04:22:33.000 Did you go to L.A.? No, he actually was here in Miami.

04:22:36.000 Oh, okay.

04:22:36.000 So we ended up doing it here.

04:22:38.000 But yeah, he was, hey, I'm in town, blah, blah, blah.

04:22:40.000 I was like, yeah, sure, bro.

04:22:41.000 You can use the studio, whatever.

04:22:42.000 So he came.

04:22:43.000 We filmed it.

04:22:43.000 I did an interview for his, and then he did an interview for me.

04:22:47.000 Okay.

04:22:47.000 Good stuff.

04:22:47.000 So yeah, I owe you one, bro.

04:22:49.000 So no, I'll be happy to fucking do it. 0.98

04:22:51.000 I'll just watch from afar. 0.94

04:22:54.000 Anyhow, we're from our sponsor.

04:22:56.000 Wait, well, what I'm thinking is we read our chats on the next one.

04:22:59.000 We're from sponsor.

04:23:00.000 We're from sponsor, at least.

04:23:01.000 We're from sponsors?

04:23:01.000 Okay, go ahead.

04:23:01.000 Because they've been waiting to rumble.

04:23:02.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

04:23:03.000 Okay, go ahead.

04:23:04.000 Go, man, right.

04:23:05.000 I gotta read it.

04:23:06.000 Okay.

04:23:07.000 It's time to say goodbye to Starbucks and hello to Rumble 1775 Coffee.

04:23:09.000 As you guys saw, we were drinking it the whole time.

04:23:11.000 Yes.

04:23:12.000 I actually have it in here right now as we speak.

04:23:13.000 Me too.

04:23:14.000 Unlike other brands, this is the coffee that backs free speech.

04:23:16.000 It's unapologetic about it.

04:23:17.000 Visit 1775coffee.com.

04:23:18.000 Use the promo code STUDIO to get 15% off.

04:23:21.000 The coffee comes in medium and dark roast.

04:23:23.000 It also comes in Peaberry, which is a similar to kind of coffee.

04:23:25.000 In other words, this stuff is premium.

04:23:26.000 Click the link in the live chat or the description.

04:23:28.000 You can also go directly to 1775coffee.com and use the promo code STUDIO to get 15% off. 1.00

04:23:32.000 And you niggas better buy it because we wait until the end to fucking read that promo for you motherfuckers. 1.00

04:23:35.000 So you guys better get the fucking coffee because we've been drinking the whole damn show. 1.00

04:23:39.000 That's how we're able to give you guys a damn good interview. 0.99

04:23:41.000 How was the coffee? 0.97

04:23:41.000 Did you enjoy it, Matt? 0.97

04:23:42.000 Yeah, it was real good.

04:23:43.000 Yeah.

04:23:44.000 And you made it, so...

04:23:45.000 There you go.

04:23:46.000 It's always better when you force women to do it. 1.00

04:23:47.000 Anyway, guys, hope you guys enjoyed the show, man.

04:23:50.000 We're gonna literally transition and go on with Elijah Saip.

04:23:53.000 We're gonna cover the FNF News.

04:23:54.000 There's so much stuff to cover, guys.

04:23:55.000 And Matthew, thank you for being honest, being, I wanna say, Donald Wright, a good storyteller, and thank you for coming, man.

04:24:02.000 It was great.

04:24:03.000 Maybe we'll do something again in the future.

04:24:04.000 I owe you an interview, so we'll definitely do it.

04:24:07.000 Yeah.

04:24:07.000 No, because we know we should do something what it's like after.

04:24:11.000 A part two.

04:24:13.000 After.

04:24:14.000 After prison.

04:24:15.000 Okay.

04:24:15.000 Let's do it.

04:24:16.000 Cool.

04:24:16.000 Matt, thank you so much, man.

04:24:17.000 It was an awesome interview.

04:24:18.000 Seriously, one of my favorites.

04:24:19.000 Thank you, bro.

04:24:20.000 I'm trying to think.

04:24:21.000 Did he call us right now with that story?

04:24:23.000 Nah, man.

04:24:23.000 It's real.

04:24:24.000 It's definitely real.

04:24:25.000 Hey, guys.

04:24:26.000 We'll be back here.

04:24:26.000 Give us about 10 minutes and we'll reset and be back on Live Shade for FNF News coming on up.

04:24:30.000 Guys, we'll check you out.

04:24:31.000 Peace.

04:24:32.000 I ran.

04:24:33.000 I ran so far away.

04:24:36.000 I just ran.

Fresh & Fit - July 22, 2024

Matthew Cox On Becoming FBI's Most Wanted Con Man, $55 Million In Fraud, Prison & MORE

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