In this episode of the Fresh Fit Podcast, we have a special episode featuring 4 special guests, Ejaz from EF Dawah, Daniel Hayratjian, Sam Shimoon, and Jay Dyer. We discuss religion and Christianity, and how they are different from one another. We also talk about the government's reckless disregard for our national debt, and why we should all be thankful for it. This episode is sponsored by Birch Gold Group, the Birch Group, and FreshFitCastClubtv. Subscribe to Fresh Fit to get immediate access to all of the show's exclusive show notes, interviews, and behind-the-scenes content. Fresh Fit is a community of likeminded individuals who support free speech and support the team CastClubtv, the main place to support the cause of Free Speech and Free Speech. We have a bunch of exclusive content behind the scenes for you guys over there, and we have been working hard to make it as accessible as possible for you! Thanks for listening and supporting the cause, and stay tuned for more episodes like this one! Stay tuned for the next episode coming soon! Cheers, EJaz, Daniel, Tanya, Sam, Jay, and Ibrahem, and myself! - The Dyer Team! Subscribe and Retweet this episode on Anchor.fm/FreshFitcastClubtv and we'll see you next Monday for another episode of FreshFitcast! Enjoy! Timestamps: 5:00 - Who is That Woman? 6:30 - Who's That Woman Is That Walkin' With Me? 7:00 8:15 - What's That Man? 9:00 | What's Yours Truly? 11:20 - Who Is That Woman That Is That's That Good? 16:10 - How Can I Talk About It? 17:30 | Who's Better? 18:10 | What Would You Say That? 19:15 | Which Is Yours Is That Girl? 21:30 22:00 / 16:00 Or Is It's My Best Idea? 25:00 Is It Wrong? 26:00/16:00? 27:00 & 27:15 28:00 Are You Better Than Others? 29:00 Can I Have It Better Than You? 35:00 +33:00 Do You Think That's Not My Opinion?
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00:10:53.000As Muslims, we challenge Sam and Jay to resolve this logical contradiction for the audience.
00:10:58.000Explain to us how the Father, Son, and Spirit are all one God but they're not identical with each other and explain it in a way that the average layperson can understand it.
00:11:07.000A layperson can understand that God is one.
00:11:10.000He is one God and he can have multiple attributes.
00:12:25.000There are more examples that we can cite in the rebuttal sections, but keep in mind that in the 7th century, the official position of the Church in the Third Council of Constantinople, they held the position that Jesus has two wills.
00:12:37.000The Church defined Jesus as having two energies and two wills, one divine and one human.
00:12:42.000Two separate wills means two separate minds.
00:12:46.000This means that Jesus and the Father have two separate minds and are therefore two separate entities.
00:12:50.000You either explain this by admitting it is polytheism, or you have to give us some convoluted explanation of how two minds or three minds are still one God.
00:12:59.000There's nothing analogous to this in Islamic theology.
00:13:18.000Jesus is meant to be God, all-knowing, and the only teacher to the disciples, but the Jesus of the Gospels doesn't describe the doctrines of the Trinity.
00:13:25.000We have to rely on Paul and the Church Fathers to explain what the Trinity is.
00:13:30.000If God wants us to know Him, believe in Him, lay the foundation for a general understanding of Him, why would He leave that to different authors at different times and different places over several centuries, such that when God is finally described in Scripture, it results in a mystery, and we need all these church councils to figure it out.
00:13:47.000The way that Christians have come to understand the Trinity is what we'd expect if God did not reveal the doctrines of the Trinity.
00:13:53.000On the other hand, God in the Quran revealed four short lines that any human being can read and instantly understand who God is and what his attributes are.
00:14:02.000This is exactly what we would expect from an all-knowing, wise, just, merciful, and loving God who cares about his creation.
00:14:09.000The four lines are the 112th chapter of the Quran.
00:14:55.000Instead of focusing on what it means for Allah to be one, he spent the bulk of his time criticizing the Trinity, but we will answer his objections in a rebuttal period, but I'm now going to turn against him, because not so fast.
00:15:08.000When he says he believes in Tawhid, what exactly does it mean for Allah to be one?
00:15:13.000Because I'm aware that Daniel does believe the fact that the Quran is uncreated.
00:15:19.000And therefore, we now have two distinct eternal entities that are not identical.
00:15:25.000Because I'm going to show Daniel from his authentic sources, sahih narrations, that the Quran and the chapters of the Quran actually want to see and debate with Allah.
00:15:47.000But his is even worse, because it's not three persons, because each chapter of the Quran He has the potentiality of speaking with Allah.
00:15:54.000So that means his God consists of at least 115 divine persons or divine beings who can interact with one another and appear separately.
00:16:02.000And this is all from his authentic narrations.
00:16:04.000Secondly, the second problem he has is that according to the Quran, the spirit of Allah is not Gabriel.
00:16:10.000So I'm going to now press him in rebuttal period to prove otherwise.
00:16:14.000There's not a single verse in the Quran that says the spirit is Jibril.
00:16:19.000He's now dependent on the very scholars of Islam that come centuries later to bail out Allah and his messenger, because that's what he accused the Lord Jesus, that Jesus wasn't clear enough to articulate the Trinity, but he did make an admission, which is now going to come and bite him.
00:16:38.000Paul taught the Trinity, because when we come to the scriptures, I'm going to show that even the Quran acknowledges that Paul was used by Allah to spread the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
00:16:52.000So now if we add the spirit to the Quran and Allah, he's got about 116 divine persons or beings and he doesn't have a singular person called Allah.
00:17:03.000Then we can go a little further and adjust the issue of the fact that according to our friend here, this is his belief, Allah has...
00:17:13.000Well, he wouldn't use the term body parts.
00:17:22.000And he has at least two eyes, if not more, and two right hands.
00:17:25.000Now, for the life of me, if Allah is the creator of the heavens and the earth, how does he exist as an embodied being without him dwelling in space?
00:17:34.000Because if he's atemporal and he's timeless, that means his God supposedly exists when there was no time, space, and place.
00:17:41.000But if you have a foot and you have a shin, And you have two right hands.
00:17:45.000I don't know what happened to the left one, but we'll get into that.
00:17:50.000In fact, the Arabic says three or more, but we'll get into that.
00:17:52.000Then that means his God is an embodied being who is temporal and finite, which means that his God did not create all space or place and time because there's a space that his body parts need to occupy In order for him to be his god.
00:18:07.000So the problem is actually worse for Daniel than for us.
00:18:10.000So he's going to have to explain how is it that he's a polytheist, pagan, masquerading as a monotheist.
00:18:17.000Because what he just told you is not anchoring the Quran or the authentic sunnah of Muhammad.
00:18:23.000So good luck in trying to defend your rational Salafi anthropomorphism.
00:18:28.000And last time I checked, his partner doesn't share his Salafi anthropomorphism.
00:18:38.000Yeah, I'd like to point out that in Daniel's opening statement, he also committed a fallacy, which is a form of Occam's Razor fallacy.
00:18:45.000He kept appealing to the fact that because it's simple, then it must be obvious it must be the case.
00:18:50.000Just because something seems or appears to be simpler or more obvious or because it was only four short and simple things, Sentences has nothing to do with whether it's true or false.
00:18:59.000In fact, as we're going to see, the Muslims amongst themselves and their various schools all compete and disagree and fight not only over the attributes, but also over jurisprudence.
00:20:08.000Bismillah, alhamdulillah, salatu wa s-salatu wa s-salamu ala rasulullah.
00:20:11.000Notice that for this debate, Sam Shimon had to create a religion, a mockery, something which does not actually exist, in order to argue against the Muslims.
00:20:22.000No Muslim believes that Allah is 115 persons.
00:20:26.000Not even the Christians who didn't understand Islam, like John of Damascus, could come up with something so ridiculous.
00:20:33.000But we will find that this is the case in Christian theology, that God is another being.
00:20:49.000Of course, they would like to revise that, but that's what he literally says.
00:20:53.000When it comes to the New Testament, Jesus says a person cannot have two masters, or rather that he cannot serve two lords.
00:21:02.000We look at the Jesus of the New Testament, he's at odds with the Christian understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity.
00:21:09.000We can even go a step further than this.
00:21:11.000For us Muslims, yes, the Qur'an describes Allah in a simple way, but from this we get a comprehensive understanding.
00:21:20.000We say that this is a or speech which is extensive.
00:21:24.000You can ask us almost any question about the nature of Allah and in those four short passages we can understand it.
00:21:31.000To the point that if I were to compare this with the Bible, I would not be able to find four verses that simply and reasonably explain the nature of God.
00:21:41.000If God loved us, He cared for us, and He was merciful for us, then there's a duty there, a justice, where He would want us to understand Him.
00:21:50.000But our Christian colleagues fundamentally cannot and do not understand God.
00:21:57.000The God of the Quran was able to describe Himself as one, absolutely one, meaning nothing.
00:22:02.000The God of the Bible allegedly describes Himself as begotten, A word of which the meaning we cannot know and which we know has actually changed.
00:22:11.000For those who don't know, the God of the Bible, when he says that he is begotten, this comes from the Greek word monogenes.
00:22:18.000Unfortunately, that word today is not translated as unique.
00:22:22.000So if you're a Christian, does it matter to you that the Bible does not teach what you actually believe?
00:22:27.000My friend here, Sam, actually teaches that if a thing, an ideal belief, cannot stand being tested by the Bible, then it is false.
00:22:36.000So I would like to ask him, where is the belief that Jesus is begotten using the Greek of the New Testament?
00:23:16.000I want them to explain, since their whole opening statement was bringing up the issue of the uncreatedness of the Quran and the hand of Allah, how does that contradict Monotheism.
00:24:24.000And when you guys start speaking, we'll start the clock once you start speaking.
00:24:28.000Jay, do you want to go or do you want me to go?
00:24:32.000Let me have one or two minutes and I'll turn it to you.
00:24:36.000So I did want to address what Daniel said because, of course, he misstated several things about what our position is.
00:24:42.000First of all, the argument about attributes was not that you believe that they're persons.
00:24:47.000Sam was making an analogy to show that you have the exact same problem in your position, and you have a double standard when you try to say that we have to solve this Trinitarian dilemma.
00:25:13.000Did Paul teach the Trinity or did he not?
00:25:15.000And then I would also add that Christ does not have a human person, and that's why the notion about divine mind It's a two-mind scenario where he shares a divine mind with the Father, and he has limitations in his human mind.
00:25:30.000So you tried to say that he had one mind, and it was separate knowledge.
00:25:34.000The expression where he says that he's limited in knowledge is a reference to rhetoric, and if you can read St.
00:25:40.000Basil, Letter 234, 5, and 6, he talks about these issues and explains that just as Jesus says in other places that there's no one good but God.
00:25:48.000He's not literally saying that there's no one else good because in other passages he calls himself good.
00:25:52.000He calls the Holy Spirit good as well, and so it's a feature of rhetoric.
00:25:56.000You have the same types of expressions in your own Quranic exegesis where you try to solve these dilemmas, but you don't want us to have that right.
00:26:12.000But I know he can't defend Tawheed because it's irrational.
00:26:14.000So he just wants to attack the Trinity, thinking that Tawheed wins by default.
00:26:18.000Daniel, you're the one who set up the topic, Trinity versus Tawheed.
00:26:21.000You didn't want to do it separately, so stop whining about it.
00:26:24.000Now, coming back to the issue, maybe you didn't hear what I said.
00:26:28.000The Qur'an must have a mind independent from your God if the Qur'an is going to argue with your God and the individual chapters.
00:26:34.000Here, Sahih Muslim, book 4, number 1757.
00:26:39.000Abu Umama said he heard Allah's messengers say, recite the Qur'an for on the day of resurrection, it will come as an intercessor for those who recite it.
00:26:46.000How does the speech of Allah intercede with Allah if it's a speech of Allah?
00:26:50.000Is Allah speaking to himself in a different mode?
00:26:53.000So your tawhid is modalism, but then it gets worse for you.
00:26:57.000Recite the two bright ones, Al-Baqarah and Surah Al-Imran, chapters 2 and 3.
00:27:01.000For on the day of resurrection they will come as two clouds or two shades or two flocks of birds and ranks, pleading for those who recite them.
00:27:08.000If the surahs of the Qur'an can appear independently, separately, and appear in visible form, and argue with Allah, that's either your God, being schizophrenic, arguing with himself in different modes, so you're a modalist, Or you have now separate gods argue with one another, so you're a polytheist,
00:27:23.000or you have to believe that Tawhid encompasses a plurality of distinct entities who can then interact and argue with one another.
00:27:31.000So don't run and evade, which are smoke and mirror tactics, deal with the issue.
00:27:35.000You didn't understand what I meant about your god's body parts.
00:27:38.000Even though you don't like to use the term body parts.
00:27:40.000And no, not all the Sunnis define the hand of Allah as meaning what you mean, because you have those that say that it's a metaphor for His power.
00:28:59.000How is it possible that they don't understand that the Qur'an also uses rhetoric?
00:29:04.000In fact, in the Qur'an, Allah says He uses examples of every kind.
00:29:08.000So, it's not that hard to understand it.
00:29:10.000But there is a problem here for Jay, because Jay seems to think that in Mark 13, 32, this is simple rhetoric.
00:29:16.000Unfortunately, the scribes of the Bible did not see it that way, Which is why they had to repeatedly change those words over several centuries.
00:29:56.000He doesn't rely on anyone or anything other than himself.
00:30:00.000He is beginningless and endless, meaning he's the first and the last.
00:30:05.000If I were to ask The God of the Bible, is He the first and the last?
00:30:09.000We know that very recently, the scholars at the ECM have decided that God the Father in Revelation 21 6 actually became the first and the last.
00:30:41.000So in chapter 36, verse 65, we read in the Quran,"...on that day we shall seal up their mouths, but their hands will speak to us, and their feet bear witness to everything they have done." Does that mean that our hands and feet have minds?
00:30:56.000Did any Muslim in history ever interpret that verse that the hands and feet of our own bodies have minds?
00:31:03.000Yet they will speak for or against us on the day of judgment.
00:31:07.000So this is an interpretation that he has that no one has ever made in the history of Islam.
00:31:14.000But many Christians and theologians and church fathers have debated and discussed the knowledge of Jesus being different from the knowledge of the Father, and the will of Jesus being different from the will of the Father.
00:31:29.000Jesus has a separate human will, and this is what they will not explain.
00:31:34.000Also, So, yeah, explain that problem, that contradiction.
00:31:42.000That's a problem for the Trinity as well, because the New Testament in Acts 7.55 describes Jesus as standing at the right hand of the Father.
00:31:54.000So what is the right hand of the Father?
00:32:10.000Explain that verse within Acts, and that's in the New Testament, so I'm very interested to understand if this is a corporeal, physical Father or not, or what does the Bible mean?
00:34:03.000He's talking about no one is good but God the Father in a specific sense of God being the Father being the arche, the principle, the fount, and the cause.
00:34:10.000The last thing I'll say is that we're not subject to the same problems as you guys, well, particularly Daniel, because we don't have the anthropomorphic error about God the Father.
00:34:19.000So what we believe about the mode of the sun coming into time and space, you have that same issue with Allah Himself.
00:34:27.000You're saying that Allah has these parts, which you say are attributes.
00:34:30.000And by the way, don't you two disagree on the status of those attributes between yourselves?
00:34:51.000Yes, I know you live in denial, just like you live in denial that you're pagans and polytheists for a variety of issues, especially kissing the black stone.
00:34:59.000It doesn't matter what your scholars say.
00:35:57.000So when it says that Jesus in his glorified physical body enters this heavenly realm where angels dwell, heaven itself is created and God can manifest in heaven and Jesus physically being seen by the inhabitants of heaven sitting at the right hand of the Father who appears visibly.
00:36:14.000But you don't believe that about the body parts of your God.
00:36:38.000So, now, come back and address your polytheistic pagan beliefs.
00:36:44.000Since the chapters of the Qur'an can appear separately, in visible form, and they are interceding with Allah, they're disputing with Allah, how if the Qur'an is the speech of Allah?
00:37:07.000So mindless surahs have the mind enough to know who recites them, who to defend and argue on behalf of, and argue with Allah when this is supposedly a speech of Allah.
00:37:48.000So none of these points are defeatists for Islam, nor do they change or attack what Muslims actually believe.
00:37:53.000Notice this trauma that they have to create.
00:37:56.000They have to think that these are parts of Allah.
00:37:59.000Even some admitted you don't use this language.
00:38:01.000So if we don't use that language, we don't describe it that way, we don't teach it that way, why is your opinion of how you read it in a very Christian way, I would say?
00:38:10.000It's very natural for you to create different persons for God, That's the very definition of schizophrenia.
00:38:18.000He made the statement, well, if it's still there in the Bible for Mark 13, 32, that Jesus does not know the day or the hour, how does that mean that the scribes changed it?
00:38:28.000Yes, the scribes actually changed the meaning of the term, and what the academics have gone and done is translate And they've tried to fix and adjust what divorce means, because it occurs twice in the Bible.
00:38:40.000And in the two places where Jesus has no knowledge of the day or the hour, the scribes tried to amend it.
00:38:46.000There is no textual critic alive today who will not testify to that.
00:38:53.000Sam says that your manuscripts are from the 4th century, and Verbatim, he says, that they're a problem because the further they go back, the more that they disagree.
00:39:03.000And this refers to Codex Naiticus, Vaticanus, Alexandrinus, Ephraimuris scriptus, etc.
00:39:25.000Muslims do not say as well that when the Day of Judgment comes and things testify, paths testify, that these mean that they are the mind of Allah.
00:42:36.000So this will do, this will do, this will do.
00:42:38.000Since you guys still have some time on the clock, and it seems like this is, you guys kind of want to have a little bit of a dialogue here.
00:42:43.000If you guys want, I'm going to have Team Christianity go right now.
00:42:46.000I'm going to give them their full four minutes.
00:42:48.000And then what we can do is, if you guys want, I can put another three or four minutes on the clock where we'll finish off this round with Tawid versus Trinity, where you guys have open dialogue with each other.
00:42:57.000And I can put four or five minutes on the clock.
00:42:59.000Then I can corner them, they can't run.
00:43:15.000So Team Christiana, we'll put four minutes on the clock for you guys.
00:43:17.000And then after this, we'll do either three, between three to five minutes, whatever you guys decide, on just open dialogue between the four of you.
00:43:25.000So I'll put four minutes on the clock here.
00:43:28.000Whenever you guys are ready, go ahead and we'll start the clock.
00:43:54.000Now, I know that you can't seem to follow the fact that we're not saying you believe the attributes actually have minds.
00:44:00.000We're just pointing out that you have the same metaphysical problem, that you have a double standard for saying, I'm not liable to explain that.
00:45:22.000That even if they don't praise me, creation will praise me.
00:45:25.000That's exactly the context of the Psalms.
00:45:27.000The psalmist, which is poetic literature, is personifying creation to show that all creation glorifies God, because creation is a testimony to the greatness and existence of God.
00:45:38.000Nice try with that false analogy, but I want him now, when I engage you, when I ask you, so are you saying to me, That when the Hadith, not your Quran, says that the Surahs will intercede with Allah, that's not literal?
00:45:53.000Are you saying to me, when the Quran will intercede with Allah, that's not literal?
00:45:58.000And on top of that, what do you do with the Hadith, where it says, the trees greeted your prophet, stones greeted your prophet, and at the last day, a stone will cry out saying, hey, there's a Yahud behind me, come and kill him.
00:46:10.000Are you going to allegorize those statements, Daniel Hakikat you?
00:46:13.000I hope not, because I'm going to have a field day.
00:48:21.000What I'm going to do is I'll just have someone who wants to kick off the first question of this open dialogue and I'm going to start the timer.
00:48:32.000So, Sam, I'm going to turn the clock on once you go, and then this open dialogue between the four of you.
00:48:37.000Guys, try please not to interrupt each other so they can hear you because it's Zoom, so they really won't be able to hear you if you guys interrupt each other.
00:51:46.000Okay, so the hadith that I cited, when it says, Surah Al-Baqarah, Surah Al-Rahan, will appear as flocks of birds interceding for those that recited them.
00:51:56.000Do you take that metaphorically or do you take it actually?
00:51:59.000This is a personification of the Quran, just like the Bible verses that I mentioned about rivers clapping their hands, their stones speaking.
00:53:25.000Okay, let's add 30 seconds to the clock.
00:53:28.000We're going to let Sam finish his point, and then we'll go ahead and let you ask your question.
00:53:32.000Is he making points or asking questions?
00:53:33.000Okay, so now Daniel, Daniel, stop attacking straw man, because in the psalm, you will not find where it says, and the moon will come and intercede for those that look to it.
00:55:11.000Minds, two separate entities, two separate beings.
00:55:14.000That's not analogous to your hands interceding on your behalf on the day of judgment, or the Quran, or your feet, or anything else that will intercede on your behalf on the day of judgment.
00:55:27.000Explain how Jesus can have a separate mind from the Father and they be the same mind.
00:55:40.000So the separation comes in the fact that he has a human mind that he assumed, but he retains the divine mind that he shares with the Father because he's a divine person.
00:56:22.000Why did the scribes omit for the end of Vulgate that Jesus is not a day or the hour, when it addresses him as the Son, speaking of the person, not speaking of natures?
00:57:16.000You said about scribes changing the text, so that is referring to the veracity of the Scriptures.
00:57:22.000But even if we go with your very imbalanced approach to textual criticism, they must have done a very poor job because they left intact the Father alone.
00:57:34.000So even your argument buries you because whatever the scribes did, if they inserted the word Son or omitted it, Because there's a debate among textual critics.
00:57:42.000That passage still has the Father alone, so they must have done a very poor job because they didn't remove the word alone, and they left Mark 13, 32 intact, because I know what you're referring to, Matthew 24, 36.
00:58:06.000I'm asking you, describe me the change to omit or the son, and I'm asking you, why is it specific for the son to be omitted if the son is the same person who has the same knowledge as the father?
00:59:08.000Who will appear to Allah without a mind arguing with Allah.
00:59:11.000So you're left with a mindless entity interacting with your God.
00:59:14.000So either that means your God is speaking through different modes or you have a set of 114 uncreated eternal divine objects who are mindless and you have the audacity to attack the Trinity.
00:59:31.000What we'll do, guys, next time is I'm going to have a question and answer for each person when we do this open dialogue because I can see that this can easily spiral and we'll fix that on the next one.
00:59:40.000Let's just move to Scripture because we're getting there anyway.
00:59:43.000So we'll move on to the Scripture part.
00:59:46.000So Team Islam, you guys are going to kick it off again.
00:59:49.000Unless you want Team Christianity to kick it off on this one.
01:00:27.000Yeah, by the grace of Lord Jesus Christ, Muhammad's God and judge.
01:00:30.000I'm now going to show the Muslims the dilemma they're in.
01:00:34.000Because I'm not debating Abart Ehrman, who doesn't care about Muhammad.
01:00:37.000I'm debating Muslims who supposedly take the position of Muhammad.
01:00:40.000So I'm appealing to Muhammad because they believe in him.
01:00:43.000I pray they repent and turn away from him.
01:00:45.000Because he's under the feet of Jesus Christ.
01:00:46.000But coming to that point, anytime Hijaz attacks the Bible, he shows that he's smarter than Muhammad, better than Muhammad, knows more than Muhammad.
01:00:55.000Because the consistent teaching of the Quran and the sound narration, so we're going to get into this, is that Muhammad confirmed the very scriptures that the Jews and Christians had in their possession at his time.
01:01:05.000And the Quran says that Jesus confirmed the very scriptures between his hands at his time.
01:01:09.000Unless now Hijaz wants to come up with some new set of scriptures, The only scriptures that would have been in existence time of Jesus up to Muhammad are the very scriptures that have variations just like the Quran does.
01:01:21.000Let me just go through a slew of verses for the sake of time.
01:01:57.000Attack the Bible for variations, because you show that you know more than Muhammad.
01:02:01.000That means you expose him as a false prophet.
01:02:03.000But if you believe in Muhammad, you have to accept the Bible, and he's still a false prophet, because Muhammad was an ummi.
01:02:08.000He did not know that his Quran contradicts the Bible.
01:02:11.000Now, The same arguments that they're going to level against scripture, I will use to bury their belief in scripture, because Ijaz is going to have to come clean and talk about the ahroof.
01:02:24.000Over 35 opinions given by scholars, and we know it cannot be dialectal, because I'm going to show from a hadith in Bukhari that Omar heard Hisham recite chapter 25 of the Quran so differently, he dragged him to Muhammad, and Muhammad said,
01:02:45.000But they were both Quraysh and spoke the same dialect.
01:02:47.000So it cannot be dialectal differences.
01:02:49.000And then we're going to add to the problem the missing verses and surahs found in the codices of Abdullah ibn Masood, Ubay ibn Kab, two of the four men that Muhammad said learned the Quran from.
01:03:02.000He said, learn the Quran from Abdullah ibn Masood, Ubay ibn Kab, and yet they contradicted each other and your Uthmanic Codex, Musaf, because there are missing verses and missing surahs, so much for the perfectly preserved Quran.
01:03:17.000Your Uthman decided to burn Copies of the Qur'an that were in conflict to the point that Muslims are about to come to blows.
01:03:24.000You don't come to blows over minor differences.
01:03:28.000And he had the Qur'an's burn, and yet Abdullah bin Masood refused to the point that your sources say, That Uthman instigated a mob reaction against Abdullah bin Masud, who got beat and his bones broken because he thought his knowledge of the Quran was superior to your Zayd ibn Thabit,
01:04:07.000So my challenge to you is, show me anywhere in your Qur'an, or your authentic tradition, where your God sanctioned all these Qiraat, and authorized Ibn Mujahid to standardize seven Qiraat, and these Qiraat are not identical, and then I want you to explain to me what the Ahruf are,
01:04:24.000and then we're going to go into the missing verses, and we're going to go into the missing sermon.
01:04:52.000Revelation comes with the expectation of validation.
01:04:56.000Scriptural texts and doctrines are authentic if they can be traced back to the figures to whom they were revealed in the way that they were revealed.
01:05:06.000Christians believe that the New Testament can go back to Jesus Christ and his apostles.
01:05:10.000However, Sam disagrees because Sam said in his live stream with Crisco that the New Testament comes after the time of Christ, probably the second century.
01:05:20.000So I guess it's not really that early.
01:05:22.000Good that he omitted the fifth century.
01:05:36.000You have different manuscripts at different times, and we're trying to understand how they were written, why they were written, and with whom.
01:05:43.000The thing that we have to keep in mind is that the scribes who've written these things, and the authors, do not identify themselves as having been inspired whatsoever.
01:05:52.000And we have very little knowledge as to where and when these things were written.
01:05:56.000For example, if I were to give the most famous verse of the Bible, John 3.16, Academic scholars don't know if Jesus actually said those words.
01:06:05.000They think it could be the author or a later scribe.
01:06:09.000In fact, even the words of that very verse, the most famous, the most popular, has a difference in it.
01:06:15.000They've changed it to say that Jesus is no longer begotten.
01:06:18.000The thing is, if they can't get their most famous verse right, what else can they get wrong?
01:06:25.000When Moses, in the book of Deuteronomy, has to explain who God is, that differs with the Greek Septuagint, and it differs with what Jesus says in the New Testament in each Gospel.
01:06:37.000So if Jesus can't get his basic beliefs right in the New Testament, Moses makes mistakes in the Old Testament, then these are scriptures I can't believe in, and these prophets seem to have done a very bad job, especially if one of them were meant to be Psalms God.
01:06:58.000It says that the Word of God will stand forever.
01:07:00.000Jesus says something similar in Matthew 5, verse 18, that not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen will disappear from Scripture.
01:07:09.000Unfortunately, this prophecy is false.
01:07:47.000Historically, there's a list called the changes by the scribes.
01:07:53.000The scribes changed words in the Torah, and we find that in the Christian version of the Old Testament, that those changes are also present there.
01:08:03.000So what we ask, do we know the fact that changes were made by scribes?
01:08:07.000The Jews say yes, and the Christians have it in their Bible.
01:08:14.000Christian scholars believe that the Bible could be reliable for two reasons.
01:08:18.000One, that it's early enough in time to the time of Jesus, and two, the vast amount of manuscripts that they have.
01:08:25.000The problem here, however, is if Psalm appeals to those scholars and their reasoning, then the same metrics, when used for the Qur'an, completely authenticate it.
01:08:35.000We know exactly what the Qur'an is, we can recreate its prototype text, we have a stamina that we can develop for it, and we have the manuscripts from the lifetime of the Prophet.
01:09:27.000This episode is sponsored by The Kid's Guide.
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01:10:52.000Round two guys of Authenticity of the Scripture is going to be on Team Christianity.
01:10:58.000Jay, I believe we're going to take this one, right?
01:11:01.000Yeah, I just have one brief point, then I'll hand it back over to Sam.
01:11:05.000Yeah, I think that Ejaz unknowingly sort of shot himself in the foot there, because the text that Sam listed presupposed that you could go and confirm the new revelation with the old.
01:11:20.000So if I were to set up a hypothetical scenario of a sixth 7th century Jew or Christian hearing this message, hearing it for the first time, it's being revealed.
01:11:48.000Yeah, now, I want to congratulate Ijaz for now doing what I said, and he pretty much destroyed his religion, because I appeal to Muhammad, he appeal to biblical scholars.
01:11:58.000A Christian who thinks Muhammad is a false prophet, an antichrist, is appealing to Muhammad, he's appealing to uninspired, So if these textual critics that you are selectively sliding and misquoting,
01:12:23.000Because Muhammad had no problem with the variations in the manuscripts that existed amongst the Jews and Christians, unless you're saying he was that much of an Ummi, that much ignorant.
01:12:32.000He didn't know that the Christians, their Old Testament would have variations with the Jewish scriptures because he confirmed them.
01:12:40.000You'll find that in chapter 3, verses 3 to 4, chapter 5, verse 48, chapter 2, verses 40 to 44, but then to add insult and injury to your case, in chapter 3, verse 50, in chapter 5, verse 46, in chapter 61, verse 6, it says, Confirm the scriptures between his hands.
01:13:00.000Well, did Allah not know that at the time of Jesus there were different textual traditions of the Old Testament that were not uniform, they had variations?
01:13:10.000Did your God deceive Jesus to confirm all the scriptures and not a word about the variations proving textual corruption?
01:13:16.000So you know more than your God and your Prophet, why are you a Muslim?
01:13:20.000But now, let's talk about the variant readings in your Quran that are significant That you don't find in the Uthmanic Codex.
01:13:27.000For example, chapter 37, verse 12 of the Quran, when you read it today, it says, in fact, you are astonished by their denial while they ridicule you.
01:13:35.000But Ibn Taymiyyah uses a variant to prove that your god gets shocked and amazed.
01:13:54.000That's not the same, and it doesn't affect theology because it shows that your god is affected by your actions in time, which means he was caught by surprise.
01:14:08.000According to the qiraat of Ubay ibn Kab, as well as Abdullah ibn Musud, and others, a host of them, Mujahid, Katada, Iqrama, Al-Hasan, There was an additional line in 33 verse 6 where it says,
01:14:25.000And he is a father to you, and his wives are your mothers.
01:14:31.000A father to you, and his wives are your mothers.
01:14:36.000And this is confirmed by Muhammad Assad, Abdullah Yusuf Ali, which is why Muhammad Assad includes the words a father to them, a father to you, in brackets.
01:15:18.000So what the audience should know, like all that gobbledygook that we just heard from the Christian side, when it comes to the textual preservation of the Quran, we have manuscripts, physical manuscripts that archaeologists have found that date,
01:15:33.000are radiocarbon dated to the time of the Prophet, peace be upon him.
01:15:37.000That match with what Muslims read, memorize, and recite today.
01:15:42.000There is nothing like that when it comes to the Bible.
01:15:45.000The earliest complete manuscript of the New Testament is from the fourth century, over 300 years after Jesus.
01:15:52.000So the audience needs to remember this is a huge difference.
01:15:56.000How can we tell that between the 300 years that Jesus was alive to the first manuscript, complete manuscript of the New Testament being found, so many of the teachings of Jesus haven't been distorted, haven't been changed, haven't been altered for the sake of political expedience or theological expedience,
01:17:57.000Or if you're looking at the different surahs that you're claiming are missing, any Muslim who reads these, I can even read you the translation of these surahs, they're just the dua, the prayer that is read in Qunut, in the Qunut prayer.
01:18:14.000And there was a disagreement among some of the companions on whether this is part of the Quran.
01:18:19.000Just like there's a disagreement on the Bismillah, on the Bismillah being part of every single verse or not.
01:18:25.000This is not like some missing book that we don't know about.
01:18:28.000Like this is what Muslims are reciting in prayer.
01:18:33.000You're trying to make a big deal out of the Quranic variation to hide the fact that the text of the Bible is not preserved.
01:18:43.000You can't find an authentic manuscript within 300 years of Jesus' life, let alone Moses.
01:18:48.000You have all of these variations with the Old Testament.
01:19:28.000This really has nothing to do with the topic that we're discussing, because the Masoretic text was used by some of the Jews.
01:19:36.000There were other groups of Jews that also used the Septuagint, so you seem to be totally unaware of any of that, which has nothing to do with which ones are the correct canon.
01:19:45.000And Sam and I agree on that point, so Sam, I'll let you go.
01:19:48.000Yeah, now, guys, notice the deceit in the smoke and mirrors.
01:19:51.000You see the deception on part of Daniel?
01:19:55.000And then he compared that to the later codices, which were more complete, and not to the papyri that appears from the second, third, fourth centuries.
01:20:35.000So are you acknowledging that the variant reading affects whether your God can be impacted by the actions of his creatures in time and space?
01:20:44.000Because I was astonished and you were astonished is not the same unless you think Muhammad is Allah and what Muhammad feels, Allah feels.
01:20:51.000Thirdly, notice again he compares apples and pineapples.
01:20:55.000He's comparing a collection of different books, the Bible, written by different authors at different times, and comparing it with one Quran that supposedly came through one medium, and yet the companions of Muhammad cannot agree on the content of that one Quran.
01:21:14.000It works more forcefully against your Quran because you're comparing the work of one author and his companions can't figure out how many surahs, how many chapters, with a collection of books written by different people at different times, so there'll be some natural confusion whether this book really comes from an inspired author.
01:21:32.000But we shouldn't find that problem with your Quran if there's only one medium and they all memorize the Quran perfectly, which is a lie from the pit of hell.
01:21:40.000Moreover, Deal with the actual argument I brought up.
01:21:49.000They are two of the four men that your Prophet said learned the Quran from.
01:21:54.000And I have here traditions, sahih, that said Abdullah ibn Masud recited The Quran in front of companions of Muhammad and they agreed that his recitation is fresh and the way it was revealed by Gabriel through Muhammad and yet your Uthmanic Quran doesn't agree to the point that your Uthman wanted to burn Abdullah ibn Masud's Quran.
01:24:33.000Yeah, so I'll just start on the timer.
01:24:36.000So, I think that Sam just spent most of his time reading lists of verses that he does not understand.
01:24:41.000There is consensus among the early Muslims as to what the Qur'an is.
01:24:45.000And in fact, what he's appealing to vis-a-vis a codex from some of the companions, these are only found in a tradition that Arthur Jeffrey translated, I think, in the 19th or 20th century.
01:24:57.000It does not refer to any actual physical manuscript That is actually known and dated and seen.
01:25:03.000So there's a difference between a tradition being said in past, as opposed to a physical manuscript in existence, and the same people that transmit the hadith, the same people that transmit the Qur'an, they transmit it to Ibn Masud, they transmit it through the companions in at least three of the seven chains,
01:25:22.000So there's no difference among the companions as the number of surahs in the Qur'an.
01:25:27.000Please don't bring me something that Arthur Jeffrey randomly translated that no academic life accepts.
01:25:33.000And by academic here, we refer to the Muslims who transmitted the Qur'an because they would count it letter by letter, line by line, psychometry.
01:25:41.000So we actually have a way that we can mathematically know how many ayats were written in manuscripts.
01:25:57.000Because Allah commands us to testify and believe in the scriptures that he has revealed.
01:26:02.000And when we find this in the Qur'an, we find no companion saying that it is required as a Muslim to believe in the Bible as it exists today.
01:26:11.000There is no such compulsion, whereas we are compulsed to believe that the revelations were given to prophets in the past.
01:26:19.000When he mentions Jesus in the Qur'an, Jesus affirms the revelation revealed to him.
01:26:24.000This is what Allah mentions in the Qur'an.
01:26:26.000He has not testified to a book that came after him, which is what Sam believes in.
01:26:31.000We have Qaw 47, Sanah, Topkapi, Topkapi, Suwai Medina 1A. We have so many manuscripts of the Qur'an within the first hundred years of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, that complete the Qur'an.
01:26:44.000This is complete in distinction to the Bible where you don't have anything even similar to it.
01:26:49.000You have no second-century manuscripts, no third-century manuscripts.
01:26:58.000There's an entire institute at the University of Munster that determines the papyri and the manuscripts of the New Testament, and they don't determine that there's a single manuscript within the second century.
01:27:08.000And when it comes to the third century, as Sam has admitted, he believes that Quedex Nidicus in the fourth century It's full of errors, heresies, and lies.
01:29:16.000That way we're able to keep this thing moving, everyone's able to be involved and get their questions asked and answered, and we can still have an open dialogue here to some degree.
01:29:28.000Okay, can either of you explain to me how many Western scholars of the Bible believe that the Old Testament can be traced back to Moses versus how many believe that the Quran can be traced to the life of the Prophet Muhammad?
01:30:03.000And it depends on which Western scholars you want to appeal to, because not all Western scholars believe the same thing and hold the same presuppositions.
01:30:11.000But I can also appeal to Western scholars that don't think that your Quran, as you have it, is even from Uthman.
01:30:27.000Your prophet tells me that the scriptures that Jesus had, that Torah is the uncorrupt revelation of God, perfectly preserved, and Jesus confirmed it.
01:30:37.000And since you believe the Torah was given to Moses, your prophet did it for me.
01:30:42.000So if you give me 99% of what's in scholarship, Then either your Prophet is wrong, and I admit he is, and I agree he is, but for other reasons, right?
01:31:13.000Ask your question and then they get to answer your question and respond to you.
01:31:16.000Okay, now you guys have been strawmanning the arguments I've been presenting, so now I'm going to ask both of you.
01:31:23.000Give me the date of the oldest extent Mus'haf that has all 114 chapters, the oldest copy that has 114 chapters, and point out to two Quranic manuscripts that are 100% identical.
01:32:11.000How many academics of Quranic studies, who are non-Muslim, by the way, they don't necessarily even like Islam, believe that the Quran can be dated, radiocarbon dated, scientifically, to the time of the Prophet?
01:32:25.000And you can read about that in books like The Quran, A Historical Critical Introduction by Nikolai Sinai.
01:32:35.000These are non-Muslim, many of them, and they believe that the Quran, not just one manuscript, but multiple manuscripts that are aligned and aligned with what we as Muslims read and recite today of the Quran, is dated.
01:32:50.000Scientifically, to the time of the prophet, peace be upon him.
01:32:53.000You can't say that about the Old Testament going back to Moses.
01:32:56.000You can't say that about the New Testament going back to Jesus.
01:32:59.000The earliest full manuscript of the New Testament only goes to the fourth century, over 300 years after Jesus lived.
01:34:06.000When Sam Shumun, let me just quote this so I don't get it wrong.
01:34:10.000When Sam Shimon says, and he agrees with this statement, the Sinaiticus document is full of errors and heretical statements, scribbles, and hopefully someday in the near future should be discarded to the trash can.
01:34:24.000Is he aligning with your beliefs or not?
01:34:49.000So the whole of this argument is presupposing that something has to be immediately recorded at the time of the event, and you're just using your own positions We don't believe that.
01:35:02.000We believe in the ability of oral tradition to transmit just as well as something written.
01:35:07.000So you have an artificial standard that you expect of us that is not our standard.
01:36:46.000Point to the earliest Musab codex that has all 114 surahs of the Quran with all the verses that they accept today in their 1924 Cairo edition.
01:37:16.000You may not like them because they're conservative.
01:37:18.000They do believe that Moses wrote the Torah, and they believe there's enough evidence for it, not only because Jesus confirmed it, but if Western scholars are right, I don't know what you guys don't get.
01:37:28.000You just prove Muhammad is a false prophet, antichrist, because he doesn't agree with Western scholars.
01:37:37.000Okay, Ajaz, did you have something else that you wanted to, and then we'll finish off with that.
01:37:40.000I just want to make sure everybody got their question off that they wanted to get off.
01:37:45.000Yeah, I mean, he gave us a question about the prophet, peace be upon him, confirming the Torah, and we didn't address that question, so I can address it right now.
01:37:56.000During the four minutes, you never adjust, you want to adjust it now?
01:38:36.000General statement versus Khas, a specific statement.
01:38:40.000So if I point to a book and I say this is a reliable book...
01:38:44.000Or this book confirms what I'm saying.
01:38:47.000I don't necessarily mean that every single line of that book I agree with or every single line of that book is true.
01:38:54.000I'm making an aam statement, a general statement that the book is true.
01:39:00.000Sam can only have an uncharitable reading or an uncharitable interpretation of the Prophet's words in that hadith if we assume that that hadith is authentic.
01:39:09.000So there is a difference of opinion on the authenticity of that hadith and he knows it.
01:39:13.000Second of all, or the third point actually, What Torah is the Prophet or Torah is the Prophet ï·º referring to?
01:39:21.000Is he referring to the Masoretic text?
01:39:23.000Is he referring to the Dead Sea Scrolls?
01:39:27.000Like, which version of the Old Testament is he referring to?
01:39:30.000And why do you incorrectly assume that the Old Testament that you have, your particular sect or denomination has, is the same thing that the Prophet, peace be upon him, is referring to?
01:39:40.000Like, this is a very flawed logic that you have Sam, to take this hadith and think that the Prophet, peace be upon him, is confirming the book that you have in your hand today.
01:39:50.000By the way, there are all these different variations.
01:39:52.000And the fourth point is that if Muslims believed that the Bible was uncorrupted because of this hadith, why didn't they canonize the Bible in the way that the Christians canonized the Old Testament?
01:40:04.000Christians canonized the Old Testament.
01:40:06.000Muslims never did that because they never saw the Bible as fully reliable.
01:40:11.000They never saw the Old Testament as fully reliable.
01:40:13.000And the actual academic evidence shows that the Bible is not reliable because there's all these different variations and they change the differences between the Dead Sea Scroll and the Masoretic text and the Septuagint.
01:40:23.000These are major theological differences because of changes in wording in the original manuscripts.
01:40:43.000Chapter 2, verses 78-79 shows, again, what you've been doing to the Bible, you're doing to your own Quran, and you fall under the condemnation of 378.
01:40:50.000You not only have the audacity to twist the scriptures, you have the audacity to twist the Quran.
01:40:56.000Anyone, I'm challenging here, let's do a debate on 275-79, your proof text.
01:41:05.000I've done an extensive study and the Muslim commentators is talking about a particular group identified as Jews who wrote the book with their own hands.
01:41:14.000It doesn't say all Jews everywhere, let alone mention the Christians.
01:41:18.000You just butchered the Quran like you've been butchering the Bible, but I come back to butcher you.
01:41:24.000Number two, You said that the Hadith, where Muhammad confirmed the Torah, that there are differences of opinion.
01:41:30.000Well, you probably didn't hear my recent responses to your friend, Jake.
01:41:35.000Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah, which I have quoted, and if you want to read Arabic, because you boast about reading Arabic, I'll let you read the Arabic and parse it.
01:41:43.000Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah said, a group of scholars believe the Torah is uncorrupt.
01:41:49.000One of the evidences they gave is the hadith of Abu Dawood.
01:42:00.000Ibn Qayyim al-Joziyah, for those of you who don't know, he's the disciple of Shaykh al-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah, his granddaddy, when it comes to Salafi anthropomorphism.
01:42:09.000And he says, these scholars quoted this hadith.
01:42:11.000I guess they didn't know about the science of hadith classification.
01:42:14.000Thank God Allah sent you to correct them.
01:42:17.000Because they said that when Muhammad saw Their Torah, he put it on the cushion.
01:42:21.000He goes, I believe in you and him who revealed you.
01:42:24.000And then the scholars say he would not have said it if he thought the Torah was corrupted.
01:42:28.000And among the people that Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziah lists as saying the Torah and the Gospel are incorruptible are al-Bukhari and Razi, which you probably don't care much about Razi, but Imam al-Bukhari, the one who collected the most authentic nations according to you,
01:42:49.000Okay, the final thing is, if variant readings invalidate the Bible, it buries your Quran because you have thousands of variant readings, but then you explain the way as Qiraat.
01:43:22.000And they're so exhaustive, there is not a single textual critic of the Qur'an that would say that we can't identify the Qur'an that was at the time of Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam.
01:43:33.000That they would say that we don't know what it is.
01:43:36.000Contradiction to what you said just now, that they don't know what it is.
01:43:40.000And secondly, when it comes to the Torah, the Prophet, peace be upon him, never authenticated your Torah, never authenticated the Torah that you believe in today.
01:43:57.000And lastly, there is no disagreement about the scholars on the tradition of the Qur'an, what it includes 114 surahs, no distinction, nothing!
01:44:08.000This is a difference to you and your scholars who leave books, Who leave chapters?
01:44:13.000Who leave the words of Jesus out and change them?
01:44:18.000So while you try to focus on a false Islamic dilemma, a literal false dilemma, you don't answer the question of how the Bible could be authentic and reliable.
01:44:26.000And I'm shocked that as a Christian, you allowed Jay to say that it's fine, it's okay if Codex Sinaiticus is being thrown into the trash.
01:44:34.000I mean, as a Muslim, I have more respect for the Bible than Jay and Sam do put together, but it's ridiculous that he allowed that statement to go unchallenged.
01:46:24.000He's getting frustrated because he answered your question and you made some personal attacks about throwing things in the trash or whatever, so obviously he's going to respond that way.
01:48:21.000Now in the Old Testament, we have a pretty consistent pattern, not of wrath or of anything extreme, but rather Jesus confirms in many places the morality of the Old Testament.
01:48:31.000For example, in Matthew 5, people think that the Beatitudes are contrary to the law.
01:48:36.000In fact, Leviticus says that you have to love your neighbor.
01:48:39.000Jesus says that you can't exact personal revenge, and that was actually part of the Old Testament law.
01:48:44.000So for us, Christ's exposition of the Old Testament is a consistent, true exposition of what the Torah always meant.
01:49:52.000And Muhammad confirmed all the scriptures in circulation.
01:49:55.000He didn't make any difference between...
01:49:58.000The variations or the versions to him, they're all God's Word.
01:50:02.000Now with that said, that means Muhammad's morality must live up to the biblical morality, otherwise he is a false prophet.
01:50:10.000And so when we look at even the Torah, even though Jesus is a consummation, and we are told clearly in the Old Testament and in the teachings of Christ that God, in his love, condescended to the Israelites, And it allowed things he did not like.
01:50:25.000For example, if you go to 1 Samuel 8, if you go to 1 Chronicles 22, verse 8, 1 Chronicles 28, verse 3, and on and on it goes, and then the words of our Lord, Matthew 19, the Lord allowed and tolerated things that he himself was not pleased with until Jesus came and perfected the revelation and took us to higher standard.
01:50:44.000Muhammad devolves, and his ethics are even worse than that found in the Old Testament, and I can give you several examples.
01:50:50.000In Deuteronomy 24, verse 1 of 4, The true God of Moses says that if I divorce a woman, she marries, and he divorces her, or he dies, I can't take her back.
01:51:19.000And then if he divorces her, he can take her back, adding insult to injury.
01:51:23.000So the God of Moses says Muhammad's God stands condemned.
01:51:26.000Another aspect, Deuteronomy 21, 10 to 14, unlike what we find in the Quran and the Sunnah, where Daniel's God says, if you're out in jihad, you can take women captive, even married one.
01:51:39.000Even though they won't call it rape, because by taking them captive, you have nullified their marriage, have sex with them, and sell them off, they're your property.
01:51:46.000Whereas the God of Moses says in Deuteronomy 21, 10-14, if you find a captive woman, you make her your wife, she's not married, you give her a month to more and shave her head, and you give her the full status of a wife and his wife, and...
01:52:01.000So even though the Old Testament is that ideal standard, even the Old Testament condemns the Quran and the Sunnah as being barbaric and draconian beneath even the standard of the Old Testament, which does not live up to the standard of Jesus Christ.
01:52:14.000And any attack in the Bible, they again prove Muhammad is a fraud.
01:52:17.000And I hope you attack the Bible because Muhammad is a fraud, but for other reasons.
01:52:31.000Muhammad perverts the Old Testament, let alone the New Testament, so that he doesn't even live up to the standard of the Old Testament, which is an ideal.
01:52:38.000Jesus is the standard, and when you compare Muhammad to Jesus, he's beneath the feet of Christ.
01:52:46.000Okay, so any attack, I'm warning you guys, keep attacking the Old Testament, make my day, because your prophet confirmed that Old Testament in his possession, make my day.
01:52:56.000And to answer the question, why didn't canonize it?
01:52:58.000Because your Quran says, the Torah is for the Jews, the Gospel is for the Christians, the Quran is for you, but all of you follow it, because in it is guidance and light.
01:53:06.000It's very simple, your Quran refutes you, Daniel.
01:54:13.000Fine, that may be true, but it doesn't change the fact that God...
01:54:18.000commanded executing adulterers at one point in history and god according to the trinity is also jesus so jesus commanded the israelites to kill adulterers does that sound very peaceful later in leviticus jesus says homosexuals should be executed if a father sleeps with his daughter-in-law they should both be executed here's a brief list of sins that jesus requires you to be executed for according to the old testament I think?
01:57:21.000Finally, on the topic of age of marriage, nowhere in the Bible does Jesus specify a minimum age for marriage.
01:57:28.000Jesus had no problem with child marriage, and if he did, he never told anyone, even though it was a common practice in his time in the Old Testament times.
01:57:36.000Furthermore, many church authorities endorse child marriage.
01:58:04.000And in the canon law in Catholicism, this minimum age of marriage is 12.
01:58:08.000I want the Christian audience to know that the Bible and the Catholic Church have fully endorsed marrying girls as young as 12, or even younger.
01:58:16.000So if you want to attack Islam and the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and say that they endorse pedophilia, well, so does your Bible, and so does the Church, and so does Jesus.
01:58:25.000Note that I'm not condemning the Bible or the church for this reason.
01:58:28.000So this is not a two-quo-quay fallacy, as Jay is sure to say, but I'm just pointing out the lack of consistency among many Christians.
01:58:47.000Mo, Bills, can we have the chats ready?
01:58:49.000I'm going to let them go another round, then I'll read the chats after this, because obviously I know that they want to really respond to this.
01:58:55.000Yeah, pull the chats up on the side and we'll have it.
01:59:16.000Yeah, so the first thing I would say that you'll notice the double standard again, because Daniel tried to argue quite a bit for continuity there.
01:59:23.000But you'll notice that earlier we had heard the Bible was corrupted.
01:59:26.000But now all of these verses from the Old Testament somehow match up to a kind of continuity with Islam.
01:59:31.000Well, wait a minute, I thought all the Old Testament, Jesus, all this was corrupted.
01:59:37.000When it doesn't suit their purpose or their argumentation, that's a double standard.
01:59:41.000Next, I would say that even in the Old Testament, the rabbinic tradition, Jews did not always act upon these penalties.
01:59:48.000Many of these penalties that were listed were about ritual impurity.
01:59:51.000Not all of them, but many of them were.
01:59:53.000And ritual impurity does carry over into the New Testament when, in our view, what happens is that not so much the state, although Christian states have at times enacted some things like death penalty for the things that were listed, It's ritual impurity in terms of coming to the liturgy.
02:00:08.000So in the Orthodox and in the Catholic Church, we both share this position.
02:00:11.000You do confess your sins before you come to the Eucharist.
02:00:14.000That's because if you have committed these sins, you are ritually, and in a sense morally, because the ritual refers to the moral, you're morally impure, and so that's the purpose of confession.
02:00:23.000So many of these things do carry over, just not in the way that they assume, and I would say that that's a much better notion of continuity.
02:00:38.000Because according to the Qur'an, in chapter 5, verse 20 to 26, it was his Allah that ordered Moses and the Israelites to enter Canaan and wipe it out, chapter 5, verse 20 to 26.
02:00:50.000Also, it was his Allah that ordered Saul, which the Qur'an erroneously calls Talut, because he fought Jalut, And again, I want him to justify Talut as a form of Saul.
02:01:02.000In chapter 2, verse 246 to 251, where it was his Allah, whom he said was Jesus, so he just assumed that Jesus is Allah, Muhammad's God and Judge.
02:01:10.000In chapter 2, verse 246 to 251, who ordered Saul on these expeditions, and there's not a word of condemnation by his prophet, saying that what Saul did to the livestock and children, Was an abomination to Allah.
02:01:24.000That means he's better than his God and his prophet.
02:01:26.000And again, I want to thank Daniel for proving that Jesus is Allah, his God.
02:01:31.000Because in Sahil Bukhari, volume 4, number 353.
02:01:35.000Ask me to read it because I don't want to eat up my time.
02:01:37.000There, in an authentic narration, his prophet refers to a prophet who went in an expedition jihad and the sun stood still and his prophet narrates the injunctions of Deuteronomy chapter 20.
02:02:04.000So that means you're better than your God.
02:02:06.000Now, ironically, he quoted Exodus 21-7, but as he's been doing all night, all day and all night, he didn't quote the entire context.
02:02:14.000Because if you read the context, the reason why she couldn't be Let out is because a woman that time can't be let go to be on her own.
02:02:22.000She has to be under the protection of the master or her father.
02:02:26.000But then the text says that she's to be married, not raped, like what Muhammad did in chapter 4 verse 24 in the Sunnah when they took married captives and raped them and sold them.
02:02:37.000Exodus 21 7-11 says he's to marry her or her son marries her.
02:02:41.000And if he cannot be fair with her, she has to be divorced and let go.
02:02:46.000So Conveniently, he doesn't show that this context, again, condemns Muhammad and his morality, and ironically, he mentions about the age of marriage.
02:02:56.000Well, in the Talmud, because Muhammad quotes the Talmud, and I'll show you where, even his prophet said that according to the Torah, he confused the Talmud to Torah, a woman has to be past the age of 12, And show signs of maturity.
02:03:11.000And he called that injunction in the Talmud, the Torah.
02:03:14.000But that means even by that standard, his prophet is condemned to hell.
02:03:18.000Because at the age of 54, he slept with a nine-year-old minor and sanctioned pedophilia.
02:03:47.000He was old enough to be her great-granddaddy.
02:03:49.000So I'm glad you're appealing to the Jewish-Christian sources, because these very sources say, your prophet is a false prophet, an antichrist, under the feet of Jesus.
02:04:25.000Alright, so I'm just showing a picture of Mario here because he's a famous plumber and he's with his princess, so I think that has significance.
02:07:00.000So just to be clear here, Sam, can you let us know what does the Bible teach about violence against your wives and the limits at which you can humiliate them?
02:07:10.000Let's keep in mind here that Jesus in Matthew 23 commands the disciples and Christians to do and believe as the Pharisees believe.
02:07:19.000And if I'm not wrong, they really liked young girls, three years old on one day.
02:07:24.000I mean, Jesus seemed okay with it, but are you okay with that?
02:07:27.000Sam, are you okay with that side of Jesus?
02:07:30.000Seems a little bit naughty for you, isn't it?
02:07:32.000Yeah, we're pointing out plumbers because I think Sam has a lot of experience with plumbers.
02:09:48.000When it comes down to the meat and the matter, you guys approve child marriage, Jesus approved it, the Pharisees approved it, and this is what you believe.
02:09:56.000I really want Sam to speak on whether or not a person can abuse their wife, whether a person can take donation money, spend it incorrectly, maybe spend it on young girls.
02:10:07.000Wouldn't be surprised to find you an Epstein's List, to be honest.
02:10:10.000So I just really want Sam to ask and answer the question, do you accept, Sam, do you accept child marriage, yes or no, and based on what?
02:11:26.000So I was referring to the topic that Daniel and I debated and the way he's using these texts here in this debate.
02:11:32.000Both of those situations show that Daniel only uses the Old Testament when it suits his purposes, and he's not consistent with it.
02:11:39.000In that debate, he argued that Islam has more continuity with the Old Testament because of, well, there's some loose similarities between imams and places where you go and pray in a mosque or whatever.
02:11:49.000That has nothing to do with the continuity that the argument in that debate was about.
02:11:53.000Here he's using it as another way to say, these are the texts in the Old Testament that are valid to teach this.
02:11:59.000So my point is that he's arbitrary and he has a double standard, and that's an internal critique, which neither of them have never understood.
02:12:06.000I've made this point in every debate we have.
02:12:08.000They don't know what an internal critique is.
02:12:10.000They think that it means that you hold to your position.
02:12:12.000That's not what an internal critique is.
02:12:13.000It's just showing that you have a double standard.
02:12:17.000Yeah, now let me get back and answer the questions.
02:12:19.000They think that I'm going to run like they've been running by the grace of Jesus Christ.
02:12:22.000Now, as far as those accusations, let's assume those accusations are true.
02:12:27.000All you're proving is that I'm a sinner unfaithful to the teachings of Christ, but I was acting like Muhammad because Muhammad did a lot of plumbing with a lot of women other than his own wives because when he sanctioned the rape of married women, raping them and selling them off as chattel, that's condemned by the The God of Moses in Deuteronomy 21,
02:12:59.000And here, Ezekiel 16, verses 68, 1 Corinthians 7, chapter 7, verse 36, the Didache in chapter 2, as well as the Talmud.
02:13:09.000The reason why they say 12, if you are in context, and I'm going to challenge Daniel, give me the full quotation of Thomas Aquinas, unedited, because you're like your prophet, you like to edit and quote out of context.
02:13:21.000They're placing it at 12 because that's when they assume that a woman will reach puberty.
02:13:26.000And even then they say she has to wait a little time beyond 12.
02:13:32.000For example, here in the Talmud says, not only 12, but sometime after that when her breasts are formed.
02:13:38.000Because they took that as indication that she's now pubescent and that she's now knowledgeable enough to choose marriage or reject marriage.
02:13:45.000So even by their standards, you condemn Muhammad to hell.
02:13:48.000Because according to that very standard, Muhammad mounted a nine-year-old.
02:13:56.000So Christian and Jewish sources would condemn him as a pedophile who desired a nine-year-old, and he mounted her, and then your Quran in 65 verse 4 doesn't even have the age of 12 as the limit.
02:14:08.000So yes, I condemn it, which is why I condemn your prophet.
02:14:20.000At one point, Sam Till, I want to add just to point out, I'm not Catholic, and as a side note, I don't care what Thomas Aquinas says, but irregardless of all that, it's not even true in Catholic canon law that that's the age.
02:14:33.000It's 16 for a guy, and it's 14 for a woman, which again presupposes that puberty has already happened.
02:14:42.000Yeah, and now notice again, they just proved that Jesus is Allah, Muhammad's God, because their God, Allah, who is Jesus, he's the one who sanctioned what Moses did and Canaan, what Joshua did, and I gave them the sources.
02:14:56.000Oh yeah, it's just, you know, an instruction to go ahead and carry out these expeditions generally, but Where does it say that in the Quran?
02:15:03.000And here's my challenge to Daniel and Ijaz.
02:15:05.000Show me in your Quran the explicit condemnation, prohibition, explicit condemnation, prohibition of killing children.
02:15:14.000Because I'll show you in your Quran, Where your own God destroyed women, children, cattle.
02:16:40.000So what we're going to do now is I'm going to read the chats real quick and then we're going to go ahead and do a...
02:16:46.000What I'll do is I'll probably put 10 minutes on the clock since it's the last one where you guys can go back and forth with your discourse.
02:17:35.000Mark Q. Myron, I know you're trying to be professional timing rounds, but people want to see bloodbaths, so you should add an extra last round where both parties just go at it.
02:18:10.000We got Snow Valentin says, just asking, aren't we all going to hell under Islam and there's nothing we can do to correct it because of our sinful nature?
02:19:31.000And then the man, Matt, says, if you follow any religion to the T with fear or just blind faith, I'm sorry, but you are a slave and cannot think for yourself.
02:19:37.000There is no separation between us and God.
02:19:46.000Modern society has forced the masses to believe that we are all like peasants to some omnipresent, omnipotent being, which couldn't be farther from the truth.
02:19:54.000Everyone here needs to study Neville Goddard's teachings.
02:20:01.000If Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him, were to come back, which will happen, what would happen to the Muslims who believe in him as a prophet but not as God?
02:20:08.000Anyways, guys, we have much more in common than indifferences.
02:20:11.000So he asked this question for Team Christianity, it says here.
02:20:15.000If Jesus came back, what would happen to the Muslims who believe in him as a prophet versus as a God?
02:20:23.000That's the question you want us to answer?
02:20:24.000Jay, do you want to take it first or do you want me to take it?
02:21:09.000God is a God of infinite mercy, and I don't think the Muslims would disagree with me, because you take into consideration your circumstances, your knowledge, and your status and position in life.
02:22:03.000Salafis uphold God's transcendence and reject anthropomorphism.
02:22:08.000They interpret Quranic descriptions like hand or face as symbolic of Allah's power, not literal human traits, ensuring that his attributes remain distinct from human characteristics.
02:25:15.000Because I've noticed that we've won over 10 minutes.
02:25:17.000This is what we're doing now at this final part, just to get an idea.
02:25:19.000This is going to be a question-answer, open dialogue between you guys, and this is going to be on the morality of the Quran versus the Bible.
02:25:26.000I'm putting 10 minutes on the clock because I've noticed that we've...
02:25:27.000Before you do that, is this the last it?
02:26:43.000Now, for the most part, this age is 14 years old for males and 12 years old for women.
02:26:51.000But since the ordinance of positive law are consequent upon what happens in the majority of cases, if anyone reached the required perfection before the aforesaid age, so that nature and reason are sufficiently developed to supply the lack of age,
02:27:09.000Wherefore, if the parties who marry before the age of puberty have marital intercourse before the aforesaid age of 12, their marriage is nonetheless perpetually indissoluble.
02:28:38.000So we don't have a one-size-fits-all, but for us, adults, Or it's not a child marriage, because again, as Sam was pointing out, the assumption would be that they're past puberty.
02:28:54.000Go ahead and toss it to anyone from the Team Islam.
02:28:59.000In terms of morality, what is the purpose of the rituals and the various postures or cleansings that you might do in your religion if they come out of a tradition that has a specific purpose for them that now your religion divorces it from that tradition?
02:29:19.000I'm curious what the purpose of those rituals are.
02:29:21.000Is it just because you're told to do it?
02:29:24.000Well, that's your assumption that it's coming from the Bible or the Christian tradition or Jewish tradition.
02:29:30.000That's your assumption that we don't share.
02:29:33.000The ritual purity, part of it is what God has commanded, and it's supposed to be cleanliness will bring you closer to God.
02:33:24.000Listen, let's see if you're going to get it.
02:33:26.000If you read these laws in the context from which you're quoting, unlike your prophet, who didn't give any sign that his God was backing him up, why don't you read these statements in context?
02:33:37.000In the context, your Allah, who you admit is Jesus, because according to the Quran, that was Allah, which you just admit is Jesus, so Jesus is Muhammad's Allah, his God.
02:33:45.000In the context of those passages, God appears to the nation visibly in a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night.
02:33:54.000Not only in front of the Israelites, but He also appears to the Egyptians, leaving them with no excuse to defy His commands.
02:34:03.000In other words, unlike your Elah, The God of the Bible proved his existence.
02:34:08.000The God of the Bible set up a theocracy on earth.
02:34:11.000The God of the Bible gave them ample proof not to doubt his existence, so that when they see him in the pillar of cloud, pillar of fire by night, hear his voice audibly and see the signs, so that even the Egyptians saw the pillar of cloud, Exodus 14, 19-31.
02:34:27.000As well as Joshua 2, 8-11, He gave the nations no excuse for defying Him.
02:34:32.000So when God shows up, then He has every right to tell you how to live, and if you defy Him, He has every right to take away your life, because He's the God over death and life.
02:34:42.000This is unlike your prophet, Who could not provide any proof that God was speaking through him, who could not provide that his God even exists, all he did was he borrowed the collateral of the Jews and Christians, claimed to be a prophet like the prophets found in the Jewish Christian tradition,
02:35:00.000but when he's challenged to prove that God sent him, Failed miserably.
02:35:06.000So you're comparing apples and pineapples.
02:35:08.000So if God shows up and I see and I know that he exists, he has every right to tell me what to do and every right to inflict any punishment he deems fit.
02:35:19.000Alright, Sam, you want to turn it back to them with a question?
02:35:21.000Or Team Christianity, you answered the question, now it's back to you guys.
02:35:25.000You've got two minutes left on the clock.
02:35:26.000Now Jay, do you want to ask or want me to ask?
02:35:28.000Well, I want to address, first of all, I'll let you ask the question, but I want to reply since we have two minutes.
02:35:34.000You'll notice that when I brought up the line of argumentation that Daniel had in our debate, he didn't want to go there.
02:35:39.000He immediately said that he was living rent-free in my head.
02:35:43.000In other words, deflecting away from the fact that I've called him out on an inconsistency, because in that debate he was arguing for Islam having more continuity with the laws of the Old Testament.
02:35:52.000That doesn't suit his purpose here, and so he doesn't want to go to that, and he has to deflect away.
02:35:59.000No, that's because I just caught you in a double standard.
02:36:02.000You're using two different standards, as usual.
02:36:19.000Okay, now I want you guys to show me anywhere in your Quran, explicit, not inference, anywhere in your Quran, explicit, where it says, do not kill women and children.
02:36:29.000In light of all the verses, such as the ones I mentioned, where your God rains stones on Sodom and Gomorrah indiscriminately, killing children and women and cattle, as well as flooding the people of Noah, including women, children, and cattle, can you show me a single verse in the Quran?
02:36:47.000When he orders your prophet to go and perform jihad, not to kill women and children, when his pattern is he destroys everything?
02:37:16.000The first is, a woman was found killed in one of these battles, so the Messenger of God sallallahu alayhi wa sallam forbade the killing of women and children, Sahih Muslim in Kitab al-Jihad.
02:37:26.000The first Khalifa Abu Bakr radiallahu an, gave the following command to his arms.
02:37:31.000So this is other than the Prophet, but his followers, immediate followers.
02:37:35.000Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person.
02:37:43.000Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food.
02:37:46.000Do not burn bees and do not scatter them.
02:37:48.000Do not steal from the booty and do not be cowardly.
02:37:50.000That would be tough, I guess, here for Sam.
02:37:52.000But just to be clear here, just so we establish this, when you claim that the Qur'an approved rape, this was your claim, And you claim that the Qur'an approved genocide when you spoke of Saul.
02:39:12.000In the 12th century, canon law jurist Gratian stated that consent for marriage could not take place before the age of 12 years old for females and 14 years old for males.
02:39:29.000So, it's actually 7 years old and 12 years old.
02:39:40.000Age of consent for marriage of 12 years old for girls and 14 year olds for boys is written into English law.
02:39:47.000And then the Catholic Church, before the 1917 Code of Canon Law, the minimum age for a dissoluble betrothal was seven years.
02:41:08.000I know you're going to embarrass yourself.
02:41:09.000You just destroyed your prophet again.
02:41:10.000Because if you read the Old Testament, God didn't stop at Sinai.
02:41:14.000And you're accusing me of not reading the Bible.
02:41:15.000I think you want to be an umi like your prophet.
02:41:18.000Continue reading the rest of the Old Testament.
02:41:20.000God kept sending prophets with miracles and signs to keep ratifying and confirming his existence and that this is his law and he has a right to put to death whoever he wants.
02:41:32.000Elijah had a showdown with your spiritual ancestors, because your God, Allah of the Quran, is Baal.
02:41:38.000And there God showed up miraculously that your God is fake and Yahweh is true.
02:41:42.000So no, I am consistent with the Old Testament narrative.
02:41:45.000All throughout, God shows up miraculously through prophets to confirm, I am God, this is my covenant, I have a right to do with you as I see fit.
02:41:54.000Nothing for your prophet, the prophet of Baal.
02:41:57.000Because your God is a fake God, and the God revealed in Jesus is the true God.
02:46:37.000You're citing scholars to prove reliability, but plenty of scholars, Metzer, Gerd, Gerdeson, Joedsey, Rayner, Reisner, says the NT traces the actual words of Jesus.
02:46:48.000What scholar says Quran traces actual Jesus?
02:46:54.000Yeah, so scholars do not say it traces back to the very words of Jesus.
02:46:59.000They actually say it goes back to the ideas about what Jesus could have said.
02:47:02.000It's called the Ipsosimo Vox, or what Jesus could have said.
02:47:06.000There is no way to determine that Jesus actually said anything that is claimed in the New Testament.
02:47:11.000And between the Gospels themselves, they're not dateable to the first century CE, which is the big problem.
02:47:17.000We can largely assume that they're from the second century onwards, as Sam claimed in his interview with Chadescu, I think was the name.
02:47:25.000Just to be clear, as for the Qur'an, however, you don't have to guess.
02:47:29.000Because the manuscripts are within the lifetime of the Prophet, peace be upon him, but the manuscripts aside, we have inscriptions.
02:47:35.000But the inscriptions aside, we have other geographical data that is widespread enough to definitively prove that the Qur'an as we have it today is from the lifetime of the Prophet, peace be upon him, and his companions.
02:47:48.000We call this, just to be clear, an archetypal text.
02:47:52.000But for Christians, there is no such thing.
02:47:55.000I would like Sam or Jay to really point out that the Bible as they have it today, the scholars refer to it as a voyage or a hypothetical reconstruction.
02:48:07.000When you see it mentions that every word in Scripture is God-readed, they should amend it to say it may be God-readed, but we can't actually know.
02:48:17.000I mean, for goodness sake, Jesus got God's name wrong.
02:48:19.000Can I respond to him because he brought a question to us?
02:48:23.000Yeah, I mean, he was answering a question from one of the chaters.
02:48:28.000I want to make sure everybody gets a fair say here because my thing is I want you guys to put your ideas out there and let the chat decide who they think wins.
02:48:55.000Okay, when he talks about ipsisimavax, ipsisimavurba, that now he just destroyed the Qur'an even worse, because when we come to the case of the Gospels, no Christian denies that human authors were used to communicate the words of Jesus in translation in Greek, and God can do that.
02:49:10.000So they're not going to quote exactly the same way in the target language.
02:49:14.000But what he doesn't tell you, and I did series on this, Allah, who's supposedly speaking the Qur'an, will repeat the same story.
02:49:21.000With the same speech, whether Moses and the Egyptians, or Shaitan, Iblis, and Allah, or Lot, and he cannot get the details in the exact same way, he'll quote the same speeches in often various conflicting, contradictory reporting.
02:49:38.000So the Quran itself is one huge Ipsissima Vax, which is surprising because I thought Allah is speaking and Allah knows everything and recalls speeches perfectly.
02:49:47.000So much for Allah and Him being all-knowing.
02:49:49.000And then if we extend that to the Hadith, your own scholars admit that when it comes to even your authentic traditions, you have Ipsissima Vax of your Prophet, not Ipsissima Verba.
02:50:00.000Moreover, If the Bible is not preserved, you prove Muhammad is an antichrist, because he confirmed all the scriptures.
02:50:07.000He didn't make any fuss about the variant readings, because if he did, he would end up bearing your Qur'an, because he admit that the Qur'an did not come down in one mode.
02:50:16.000Ahruf, which your scholars till this day don't even know what the hell that means.
02:50:20.000That's why you have over 35 opinions about what the Ahruf are, which means if you're consistent, you just destroyed the Qur'an, you destroyed your Prophet, you destroyed your God, Stop being a Muslim.
02:51:43.000The Bible, 1 John 4 verses 2 and 3, it mentions directly anyone who testifies that Jesus is the Christ and that Jesus came in the flesh is a true spirit from God.
02:51:53.000So you may not have to like it, but your Bible affirms Muhammad.
02:52:02.000It doesn't have to be genuine for me as long as you believe in it.
02:52:05.000It's consistent for me to get that point.
02:56:26.000Jesus, your Allah, Muhammad's God, who gave him the Quran and you corrupted it, he's the one who ordered what Moses and Joshua and Saul did, and there's nothing in these passages that say...
02:57:18.000Narrated Abu Hurairah, the prophet said, A prophet amongst the prophets carried out a holy military expedition.
02:57:23.000So he said to his followers, Anyone who has married a woman and wants to consummate the marriage and has not done so yet should not accompany me, nor should a man who has built a house but has not completed its roof, nor...
02:57:36.000A man who is sheep, or she-camels, and is waiting for the birth of their young ones.
02:57:40.000So the Prophet carried out the expedition, and when he reached that town at the time, or nearly at the time of the Asr prayer, he said to the son, O son, you are under Allah's order, and I'm under Allah's order.
02:57:54.000It was stopped till Allah made him victorious.
02:57:57.000Then he collected the booty, and the fire came to burn it, but it did not burn it.
02:58:01.000He said to the man, some of you have stolen something from the booty, so one man from every tribe should give me a pledge of allegiance by shaking hands with me.
02:58:09.000They did so, and the hand of a man got stuck over the hand of their prophet.
02:58:14.000Then that prophet said to the man, The theft has been committed by your people, so all the persons of your tribe should give me the pledge of allegiance by shaking hands with them.
02:58:22.000The hands of two or three men got stuck over the hand of their prophet, and he said, You have committed the theft.
02:58:27.000Then they brought a head of gold, like the head of a cow, and put it there, and the fire came and consumed the body.
02:58:31.000The prophet added, Then Allah saw our weakness and disability, so he made booty legal for us.
03:00:19.000You're about to follow the sunnah of your prophet.
03:00:22.000Tell me where in those passages your prophet said that when Allah sent Musa and Joshua, that he gave them the orders, spare the women and children, because he quotes them as is, and he confirms the Torah in his possession.
03:00:37.000So now go ahead, condemn your prophet.
03:01:59.000The point was that there's no passage in the Quran, there's no verse that condones genocide, whereas we read the explicit words of Jesus saying to go and kill the babies.
03:02:51.000I know you don't know logic and you want to shift the burden of proof.
03:02:54.000You quoted hadith where your prophet said it, but there's the same hadith that says that if women and children are killed, they are of them.
03:04:11.000So what I'm going to do is I'm going to, and then last one here, one question for Daniel.
03:04:15.000If your prophet is a representation of what you should be, why don't all Muslims have intercourse with nine-year-olds, and why don't you allow your daughter to get married when she is six?
03:05:21.000We say that, look, marriage can happen at the age of puberty.
03:05:25.000When a girl goes through puberty or a boy goes through puberty, then they can get married.
03:05:29.000And that is what That's what every culture and religion has practiced historically.
03:05:34.000It's only become a problem in modern times because of modern educational system that requires you to go through 12 years of education so you can become a wage slave, go and work in the factories, go and work for the industries.
03:05:47.000So they want to prevent you from getting married younger, as a teenager.
03:05:52.000They want little girls at 9 years old to fornicate with each other.
03:05:56.000And a lot of these Christians, they don't have problems with their kids having a girlfriend or boyfriend or experimenting with sex at age 9, 10, 11, 12.
03:06:04.000That's happening rampant within Western society.
03:06:06.000All we hear is about how Islam is pedophilic.
03:06:11.000Marriage would be the solution to the amount of degeneracy that unfortunately we see in the West.
03:06:16.000And maybe Jay would agree with me, maybe not Sam, but Jay might agree that marriage can be the solution for a 15-year-old to get married, a 14-year-old to get married.
03:06:25.000That was certainly the church's position.
03:06:31.000So guys, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
03:06:33.000I want you guys to all just kind of say where the people can find you, where they can get your content if they're interested in learning more about you.
03:07:18.000Here, yeah, you have to just unmute yourself.
03:07:20.000Okay, Shamounian, if you go to YouTube, it's Shamounian, S-H-A-M-O-U-N-I-A-N. And also on Rumble, it's Answering Islam, and I have answeringislamblog.wordpress.com.
03:07:31.000I try to stream daily, so Lord willing, you can find me there, and you can find the articles and all the material we use there, as well as an answeringislam.info, so that's where you can find me.