Fresh & Fit - Ryan Dawson, Mike Sartain & Destiny DEBATE RUS-Ukraine, 9-11, & MORE

00:00:00.000 Welcome to the Fresh Air Podcast, man.

00:00:01.000 We're joining some bros in the house.

00:00:02.000 Michael Sarté, Destiny, and Ryan Dawson.

00:00:04.000 Let's get it away! 0.99

00:00:05.000 Let's go!

00:00:55.000 All right, we're back.

00:00:56.000 What's up, guys?

00:00:57.000 Welcome to the Freshman Podcast, man.

00:00:58.000 We're joined with a very special panel today. 0.96

00:01:00.000 It's going to be probably one of the highest IQ conversations that we'll have on the platform in a while because we're going to be joined by some dumb bimbos after this. 1.00

00:01:07.000 So let's go ahead and have the fun while we can now. 0.90

00:01:09.000 Hi, y'all!

00:01:10.000 So real quick, I'll go ahead and have you guys introduce yourselves while you guys are over here doing your last-minute research on your phones.

00:01:16.000 Yeah.

00:01:17.000 He's not live.

00:01:18.000 He's not live.

00:01:19.000 So, yeah.

00:01:20.000 We'll start here with Destiny.

00:01:21.000 Go ahead, man.

00:01:22.000 Introduce yourself to the people and we'll get this thing going.

00:01:24.000 Welcome back.

00:01:24.000 Hey, what's up?

00:01:25.000 My name's Destiny.

00:01:26.000 You know me on YouTube, Instagram, Kik, all at Destiny.

00:01:29.000 I do politics, philosophy, video games, social commentary, I guess.

00:01:33.000 I have blue hair and guns.

00:01:35.000 Oh, sorry, Twitch.

00:01:36.000 Had to mention that.

00:01:38.000 We gotta definitely come to Rumble.

00:01:43.000 Yeah, he's banned.

00:01:44.000 And Facebook?

00:01:45.000 Keep Facebook for now.

00:01:47.000 All right.

00:01:48.000 Sartain?

00:01:48.000 My name is Michael Sartain.

00:01:49.000 I'm a retired U.S. Air Force captain.

00:01:51.000 I was an instructor navigator in a KC-135.

00:01:54.000 I flew in Iraq and Afghanistan, probably 500 combat hours.

00:01:57.000 And then I did counterintel for two years.

00:02:00.000 And then somehow I ended up in Las Vegas and I host all the biggest bikini competitions in the world.

00:02:04.000 I have the men of action mentoring program where we teach networking, leadership, like what I learned in the military, and how to bring 100 girls to a party with you.

00:02:10.000 That's why I teach.

00:02:11.000 And yeah.

00:02:12.000 I'm excited to be here with these two guys.

00:02:14.000 I love debating, and these two guys I think are both better than me, and I'm excited to be on the panel with them.

00:02:18.000 Alright, sweet.

00:02:20.000 I'm Ryan Dawson.

00:02:21.000 I'm banned on basically everything.

00:02:25.000 That's a great intro.

00:02:28.000 That's an accomplishment.

00:02:29.000 I can never take that away from you.

00:02:31.000 You're the only guy I know that's been banned off MySpace.

00:02:34.000 Oh yeah, and AOL. Could you imagine, you know, it's like fucking 2000 and you're like trying to go on to AOL and you're like, I can't turn to log in and they're like, oh, sorry, you're canceled off AOL. You don't got mail. 0.64

00:02:49.000 It was bad back then.

00:02:50.000 You got mail.

00:03:03.000 I guess I'm kind of known as like the conspiracy theorist that isn't a kook. 1.00

00:03:10.000 And yeah, I do geopolitics and make documentaries and I have a sub stack and a telegram.

00:03:15.000 That's about it.

00:03:15.000 And Twitter.

00:03:15.000 I got Twitter back this year.

00:03:17.000 Yeah.

00:03:17.000 Post Elon.

00:03:18.000 A lot of people got returned.

00:03:19.000 Nice.

00:03:20.000 And all the guys' links are below, guys, so go ahead and show them support, all the members of the panel.

00:03:24.000 We're going to hit a couple topics today.

00:03:27.000 So I guess we could start off with Russia-Ukraine.

00:03:31.000 Whoever wants to go first and kind of take their stance on it.

00:03:34.000 We talked about it before.

00:03:35.000 I'm going to discuss the strategery, and you guys are going to discuss how we got to this point.

00:03:39.000 Now, you had a comment.

00:03:40.000 We were talking in the elevator about the Maidan revolution.

00:03:43.000 Just before we get into any of that, just say a bit about Gonzalo Lira, because he's an American journalist that had disappeared at the border, maybe.

00:03:53.000 Which border?

00:03:54.000 Well, he was trying to get into Hungary.

00:03:56.000 Journalist, that's a big stretch of that term. 0.65

00:04:01.000 He's the guy that said, the last time we talked, he said that in 10 years I'd kill myself.

00:04:05.000 And now it looks like he might be the one dying before me. 1.00

00:04:07.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

00:04:09.000 Big ups on that one. 1.00

00:04:10.000 That's a little dark right there. 1.00

00:04:12.000 Damn! 1.00

00:04:12.000 Okay! 1.00

00:04:13.000 I don't know who you are, dude, but I hope you don't kill yourself. 0.74

00:04:15.000 I guess Destiny didn't forget.

00:04:16.000 Y'all don't get along?

00:04:17.000 You and him?

00:04:18.000 No. 1.00

00:04:19.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

00:04:19.000 I didn't know that. 1.00

00:04:20.000 The last time we talked, he was screaming about how he was fucking a continuous chain of 18-year-olds, and I would never be at that level. 0.98

00:04:26.000 What was this? 0.98

00:04:27.000 A while ago.

00:04:28.000 A while ago.

00:04:28.000 He used to go by Coach Red Pill.

00:04:30.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:04:30.000 No, no, no.

00:04:31.000 Red vs. 0.96

00:04:32.000 Blue?

00:04:33.000 That's probably why.

00:04:34.000 Go ahead.

00:04:35.000 Well, they don't like it together.

00:04:36.000 I'm sorry.

00:04:37.000 Go ahead, man.

00:04:40.000 Still didn't deserve to be tortured in a prison, so...

00:04:43.000 I know he's been on this show, and I don't know him from the Coach Red Pill days or any of that stuff just recently, and he's been on my show, and I just feel like, hey, that's an American journalist.

00:04:55.000 He's been disappeared.

00:04:56.000 So even if you hate somebody, they deserve human rights in their trial.

00:05:04.000 Yeah, we've done a couple shows with him.

00:05:05.000 He's a good guy.

00:05:06.000 Very smart, very bright Ivy League graduate. 0.94

00:05:08.000 And yeah, it sucks what's going on.

00:05:10.000 I mean, just for free speech, they're trying to pretty much...

00:05:13.000 If I'm not mistaken, they're charging him with espionage charges in Ukraine, right?

00:05:17.000 For...

00:05:18.000 Criticizing the Zelensky regime.

00:05:21.000 It's hard to know that there's so much fake news on that stuff, and everybody's trying to be first, but we don't really have enough information.

00:05:29.000 But that's what it seems like from the indictment that I looked at, because he posted it all on Twitter.

00:05:34.000 Before, yeah, he was under house arrest for thought crimes.

00:05:41.000 Well, wasn't there some implications that he might have been giving information to Russian troops in the area as well?

00:05:48.000 Was there?

00:05:48.000 I don't know.

00:05:48.000 There was.

00:05:49.000 Also, it's kind of a stretch to say he was disappeared when the guy was tweeting before and after getting out of prison.

00:05:53.000 He literally tweeted, I'm going to be riding a bike to, what, Hungary?

00:05:57.000 Or Romania or whatever?

00:05:59.000 Yeah, Hungary.

00:05:59.000 Yeah, I'm trying to get to Hungary.

00:06:01.000 And then I guess the next day they caught him trying to ride a bike into Hungary.

00:06:06.000 It's not very disappeared, I think, but...

00:06:08.000 Well, I think he posted it online, that's all.

00:06:10.000 But, I mean, yeah, we don't know.

00:06:12.000 I mean, obviously, my prayers are with him.

00:06:14.000 I hope he ends up okay and he's able to get on the other side of this.

00:06:19.000 He's an American and an Argentinian citizen, so hopefully they'll be able to do something.

00:06:23.000 But, yeah, I know there...

00:06:25.000 He was tortured when he was in...

00:06:26.000 Or Chilean, I'm sorry. 1.00

00:06:27.000 Yeah, Chilean.

00:06:28.000 To be clear, he claimed he was.

00:06:29.000 Now, he hasn't shown any pictures of Marx or anything like that, but...

00:06:32.000 I mean, if they're punching you and stuff like that and...

00:06:35.000 He claims he was being punched, but we don't know if that's the case.

00:06:37.000 I believe it, bro.

00:06:38.000 I'm sure you do. 0.99

00:06:39.000 Because the guy's lied about fucking every single thing related to his life up to this point. 0.98

00:06:43.000 Why would you believe him now? 1.00

00:06:44.000 Damn, bro. 1.00

00:06:45.000 Damn, Modesty really doesn't let him sky. 1.00

00:06:46.000 Let him live, bro. 1.00

00:06:47.000 Damn, man. 1.00

00:06:48.000 I mean, from an obvious point of view, let him live. 1.00

00:06:51.000 Well, that's up to the Ukrainians right now. 1.00

00:06:52.000 I mean, like, what are the chances that you imprison and torture a U.S. citizen if you're Ukraine? 0.99

00:06:56.000 That would be some wild shit. 1.00

00:06:59.000 You're fucking up pretty bad at that point, if you do that. 0.99

00:07:02.000 That's true, but it was the prisoners that were doing it, not the guards. 0.98

00:07:04.000 And then you also gotta remember that they're going after him for like, they're trying to say he's like a spy.

00:07:10.000 Yeah.

00:07:11.000 So, the gloves are off whenever there's espionage.

00:07:14.000 There's also the possibility he is a spy.

00:07:16.000 And when we say spy, that's loosely defined. 0.99

00:07:19.000 Like, if you're in the United States, and even if you're a U.S. citizen, you go to another country, and you start passing along information, then you're in deep shit. 0.98

00:07:25.000 So, I don't know. 0.98

00:07:26.000 I don't know enough about this.

00:07:27.000 But my whole thing is, he's making a good point in that for as much help as they get from us, for them to put a U.S. citizen in prison unjustly doesn't make a lot of sense.

00:07:35.000 But at the same time, If the Ukrainians are doing this, then maybe they believe he is passing along information to the Russians.

00:07:42.000 And the way the social media is used in this war is unbelievable compared to every other war.

00:07:45.000 I think that's what they're doing to substantiate the charges against them.

00:07:48.000 By the way, it's a war, so substantiating the charges, what does that even mean?

00:07:53.000 It's a war.

00:07:54.000 Do you have evidence that he's been in communication with anybody?

00:07:58.000 For sure.

00:07:59.000 The guy is literally tweeting out that he wants Ukraine to fall as the country is being invaded and he's living there in these territories. 0.78

00:08:05.000 It's not the smartest cookie in the basket.

00:08:08.000 If he was a spy or they thought he was, they wouldn't have let him out on July 6th.

00:08:14.000 Yeah, that's...

00:08:15.000 Well, it depends.

00:08:15.000 We have no idea.

00:08:16.000 It could have been that he flipped on some people.

00:08:17.000 It could have been he gave some information.

00:08:19.000 It could have been that upon further investigation, they weren't huge charges.

00:08:21.000 It could have been that people he was communicating with were killed or they feel he doesn't have contact with him.

00:08:24.000 There's like a million things that could be.

00:08:26.000 That's why I said there's not enough info.

00:08:28.000 And it's weird that...

00:08:29.000 It's weird that anybody who's trying to seek asylum in Hungary would announce, hey, I'm going to Hungary right now.

00:08:36.000 I think he did that more for an insurance policy.

00:08:37.000 Oh, you think he went somewhere else?

00:08:38.000 So he wouldn't die or something?

00:08:40.000 Yeah, I mean, so that he has a record that he left.

00:08:43.000 Or maybe he did it to throw them off that he actually went somewhere else.

00:08:45.000 That's what I thought too.

00:08:47.000 I think they caught him literally trying to cross into Hungary.

00:08:49.000 I think they got him literally at the checkpoint.

00:08:51.000 That's what I heard. 1.00

00:08:52.000 Like Ryan said, this is all shit that you see on Twitter. 0.99

00:08:55.000 It's hard to know what's true and what's not true. 1.00

00:08:57.000 Especially because, not just me, there's a lot of people that don't like him, so there are going to be people that make shit up and post it on Twitter and you actually have no fucking idea. 0.81

00:09:03.000 Why Hungary and not Poland? 0.98

00:09:07.000 I mean, the Polish have sent mercenaries into Ukraine.

00:09:10.000 Maybe he thought Hungary had a better chance at asylum.

00:09:12.000 Yeah.

00:09:12.000 I mean, I don't know what's going on in his head, so.

00:09:15.000 Interesting.

00:09:15.000 I figured maybe Poland, because it's in NATO. Is he going to die?

00:09:17.000 I don't think they'll kill an American.

00:09:21.000 They'll just keep him in jail.

00:09:22.000 I mean, if you have someone under your control, it doesn't really benefit you to take their life.

00:09:27.000 Just keep them in jail.

00:09:29.000 Hmm.

00:09:30.000 Alright, I guess, segwaying from that...

00:09:32.000 Yeah, I didn't know that was going to set a trigger off.

00:09:34.000 Well, yeah, I didn't know that.

00:09:35.000 I didn't know that they had a history like that.

00:09:38.000 So, I guess, Destin, you can start off with, what's your stance on the Russian-Ukraine conflict?

00:09:45.000 Yeah, I guess in the broadest of senses, from 1991, Ukraine has been a country that was recognized by everybody around the world.

00:09:53.000 Fast forwarding through a lot of stuff, in 2014, there was an ousting of a leader.

00:09:57.000 Some people call it a revolution.

00:09:58.000 I think some people incorrectly call it a coup.

00:10:00.000 In response to that ousting, Russia invades Crimea, and Russia begins to fund and back separatist movements.

00:10:07.000 Ukraine refers to them as terrorists in the east and the Donbass.

00:10:10.000 And then from 2014 on to 2023, we've got basically military conflict that's been escalating in 2022.

00:10:17.000 The invasion happened, everything is subsumed under that actual invasion, and here we are today.

00:10:21.000 I think that the broadest of senses, I'm sure we'll get into the details of all of this, I don't think that the initial Russian invasion into Crimea was at all justified.

00:10:29.000 In 2014.

00:10:30.000 In 2014.

00:10:31.000 I don't think that there's any evidence of any CIA coup or any sort of backing from the West showing that Euromaidan was artificially inflated by Western forces.

00:10:40.000 I don't think there was any evidence that there was an actual coup d'etat.

00:10:43.000 I don't think that the backing of separatist leaders in the East is good for anybody.

00:10:47.000 It's not good for Ukraine.

00:10:48.000 It's not good for the people that live there.

00:10:49.000 It only benefits Russia if they can manage to peel away those separatist states and incorporate them into some kind of Russian Federation.

00:10:54.000 And I think that Russia is in the moral wrong basically from start to finish with this entire conflict. 0.91

00:10:58.000 So you don't think they had any real basis for an invasion, whether it was 2014 or now?

00:11:02.000 Absolutely not.

00:11:03.000 What about, and just playing devil's advocate, I'll turn it to Ryan here in a second.

00:11:07.000 What about the fact that they're planning to invade the Dunbass region in March?

00:11:12.000 Who's planning to invade?

00:11:13.000 The Ukrainians.

00:11:15.000 It's their territory.

00:11:16.000 What do you mean invade?

00:11:16.000 Well, it's ethnic Russians that dominate that area.

00:11:19.000 It doesn't matter.

00:11:19.000 They're Ukrainian citizens.

00:11:20.000 Yeah, I mean, there's ethnic Mexicans that live in San Antonio, but if Mexico tries to invade, we would still stop them. 1.00

00:11:26.000 It doesn't give them the right to invade just because people speak the same language.

00:11:28.000 You can't invade your own territory.

00:11:28.000 They're Ukrainian.

00:11:29.000 It's their territory.

00:11:30.000 In fact, let's take this analogy further. 0.99

00:11:32.000 You can kill 14,000. 0.74

00:11:34.000 Right, but my point is you don't have the right to do it just because those people.

00:11:39.000 By the way, if Russia is giving them weapons and money to do so, then they fight back.

00:11:45.000 Then the narrative becomes, look at what Ukraine is doing.

00:11:48.000 They're killing all these people in Donbass.

00:11:50.000 Well, then stop giving them weapons. 0.87

00:11:51.000 That's the difference. 0.96

00:11:52.000 Again, I'm going to use this example because a lot of people from this country, if Mexico started funding terrorists that live in San Antonio, Harlingen, and fucking Brownsville, the United States would do something to stop it. 0.98

00:12:02.000 And the news media would be like, do you see the Americans killing these Mexicans inside? 0.98

00:12:06.000 No. 0.97

00:12:07.000 At some point, if you attack, they get to attack back.

00:12:10.000 And his argument is going to be sovereignty.

00:12:11.000 My argument is to be, even if there was a coup, the problem is they invaded Crimea.

00:12:17.000 Invading Crimea doesn't make the populace more likely to be pro-Russian.

00:12:21.000 It makes them less likely to be pro-Russian.

00:12:23.000 Secondly, their parliament had almost unanimously agreed...

00:12:27.000 To trade agreements with the West and their president and the last second switched sides and said, no, we're not going to take these trade agreements.

00:12:34.000 And then that's where the that's where all these people started rioting.

00:12:36.000 My point is, even if there was a coup, which he's going to say there's no evidence, but that's how the CIA works.

00:12:41.000 They don't leave evidence.

00:12:42.000 I'm still saying there's enough reason for the people in Ukraine to not want to be a part of Russia after they you understand I'm saying you bite my leg. 0.85

00:12:50.000 Maybe I don't want to be friends with you anymore.

00:12:52.000 You take Crimea, maybe we don't want to be with Russia anymore. 0.82

00:12:55.000 So his thing is, there's no evidence that there was a coup.

00:12:58.000 My thing is, even if there was a coup, there was enough reason for the people in Ukraine to not want to join with Russia.

00:13:04.000 That's my point.

00:13:05.000 Ryan, what's your stance and response to that?

00:13:07.000 Crimea was not annexed.

00:13:09.000 That was a secession movement, and it's mostly ethnic Russians that live there anyway.

00:13:14.000 Russia's not going to lose their base on the Black Sea, so they have every reason to back it. 0.75

00:13:19.000 But invading how?

00:13:21.000 It wasn't a military invasion of Crimea.

00:13:24.000 Crimea left Ukraine.

00:13:26.000 And Ukraine did attack the Donbass.

00:13:29.000 And probably Russia did back separatists.

00:13:32.000 But I think you have to go back before that.

00:13:35.000 This was avoidable.

00:13:36.000 And Zelensky's talking about the Belarus memorandum.

00:13:42.000 I'm so tired.

00:13:43.000 I flew here from Asia.

00:13:45.000 Memorandum.

00:13:47.000 Which is about how they had to Get rid of their nuclear weapons because they couldn't afford to maintain them.

00:13:55.000 And it was kind of political blackmail to say, send us money or we're going to reduce these weapons, but you're going to have to pay us to maintain them.

00:14:04.000 Everyone agreed to get rid of nukes in that.

00:14:08.000 Zelensky brings it up again.

00:14:09.000 And that's the flex showing the Russians don't want a nuclear-armed Ukraine on their border. 0.82

00:14:16.000 They know they're trained to NATO standards, and they don't want NATO expansion.

00:14:22.000 They've seen what happened in Libya.

00:14:24.000 They've seen what happened in Yugoslavia.

00:14:27.000 And so I understand the Russians' fear about this.

00:14:31.000 When they finally have a pro-Russian leader in charge that was going to accept The economic agreements that were favorable to the Russian state, you have to see they were walking into this 15 billion euros in debt.

00:14:48.000 Ukraine's had corrupt governments from the 90s to now, one oligarch after another.

00:14:53.000 So there's a lot of people within the state that they were in favor of some sort of economic partner, either the Americans in the EU or the Russians.

00:15:03.000 And obviously it's in the US's interest for it to not be with the Russians. 0.83

00:15:10.000 Newland and the rest of them were when there was there was violence that both sides could take advantage of so you had protests against the election results and then you had counter protests and the counter protesters were walled up in Odessa in 48 people burned alive and That's insane.

00:15:32.000 And when you look at Maidan, it's very similar to Syria with snipers shooting police and things.

00:15:37.000 And so many people believe there's foreign-backed separatists.

00:15:45.000 So would you, I guess, so you disagree with Destiny?

00:15:47.000 Because Destiny is saying there was no reason for Russia to invade.

00:15:50.000 So you're saying there was...

00:15:51.000 He's saying they're unjustified.

00:15:54.000 That's different than what he's saying.

00:15:55.000 He's saying that, I mean, we had all these issues.

00:15:58.000 I'm explaining why they would say they did it.

00:16:00.000 I think Destiny would understand there's a reason for them to invade.

00:16:04.000 The question is, do they have the right to invade?

00:16:07.000 And going back to what you're saying before.

00:16:08.000 Hold on, wait, real quick, because I would want to fight on almost every single one of these fighters.

00:16:11.000 Can I say one thing real quick?

00:16:12.000 Yeah, go for it.

00:16:13.000 The president who went and took that friendly Russian deal, he agreed previously to not take that Russian deal.

00:16:19.000 We're going to have a debate and I don't have the internet.

00:16:21.000 I don't think anyone else should.

00:16:22.000 I just took notes.

00:16:22.000 Oh, sorry.

00:16:23.000 I apologize.

00:16:24.000 I can stop doing it.

00:16:26.000 Just get rid of phones.

00:16:27.000 Yeah.

00:16:28.000 The point is...

00:16:29.000 Wait, the facts are the facts.

00:16:30.000 Why should that matter?

00:16:31.000 There's a lot of things to keep track of.

00:16:33.000 Like that 14,000 figure of deaths you cited, I don't even know where that comes from.

00:16:35.000 It's like a misciting of the UNHCR report.

00:16:37.000 That's not true, that 14,000 civilians have been killed.

00:16:39.000 The fact that Russia didn't invade, that's not true.

00:16:42.000 Spetsnaz and other special infantry were seen literally going when Russia called that SNAP 150,000 troops that they collected on the eastern border for a distraction on February 22nd.

00:16:50.000 That's not true.

00:16:52.000 The idea that Russia would see what happened in Yugoslavia and Libya, that's not Russia. 0.89

00:16:56.000 Why would NATO attacking those countries have anything to do with NATO attacking Russia?

00:16:59.000 February 22nd is not what I was talking about with Crimea.

00:17:02.000 And that what?

00:17:03.000 February 22nd is the hot war from last year.

00:17:06.000 I'm talking 2014.

00:17:07.000 Oh, that was the same date, actually.

00:17:09.000 On 2014, there was a Russian invasion.

00:17:12.000 There were Russian troops that went into, through Sevastopol, that were dropped off.

00:17:15.000 There were Spetsnaz, there were special forces.

00:17:17.000 The little green men, the election that they held afterwards, the locking of the checkpoints to the north.

00:17:22.000 You agree, but even Putin doesn't deny that.

00:17:24.000 You think that election was just a farce, rigged?

00:17:26.000 I don't know if the election was a farce, but I do know that the election was held, there were reports of intimidations on the ground by the little green men, and that there was a report that I think, what, 97% of those people ended up supporting, separating, and joining Russia, and that that election wasn't allowing any independent observers whatsoever?

00:17:43.000 Are you asking me if it was rigged?

00:17:43.000 I don't know.

00:17:44.000 Do I trust it?

00:17:45.000 Absolutely not.

00:17:46.000 Yeah.

00:18:12.000 The point is, there's that many people protesting.

00:18:15.000 Their parliament is almost entirely in agreement with joining with EU. And they've already had part of their country taken away.

00:18:23.000 You're saying that they separated.

00:18:24.000 That's fine.

00:18:25.000 But if I'm a Ukrainian, I still don't like the fact that Crimea is part of Russia.

00:18:29.000 It doesn't make me want to vote for Russia.

00:18:31.000 It doesn't make me want to join with Russia.

00:18:34.000 That's the issue that I have.

00:18:35.000 What I'm saying is, he's saying there was no CIA plot. 0.98

00:18:37.000 I'm saying if there was a CIA plot, I don't think it makes any fucking difference. 0.90

00:18:40.000 I think it would be the same thing either way. 0.84

00:18:42.000 I think they're in a situation where you've lost part of your country, and the parliament has voted to join with favorable trade agreements with the EU, and then all of a sudden your president one day decides to not do it, and then there's a huge riot, and the president has to leave the country.

00:18:55.000 And where does he go?

00:18:56.000 Where does he go when he leaves the country, everybody?

00:18:57.000 He goes to Russia.

00:18:58.000 That's where he escapes to.

00:19:00.000 So that's my issue, right?

00:19:01.000 I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here.

00:19:03.000 Go ahead.

00:19:04.000 Ryan, do you have anything back to that?

00:19:07.000 Yeah, as far as the anti-Russian sentiment started long before Crimea, they heroicized Stefan Bandera and others, which was reversed in 2010.

00:19:18.000 But you have to see how the Russians are looking at that when they are heroicizing Crimea.

00:19:25.000 Nazis from the past and then banning the Russian language and taking steps.

00:19:30.000 You're talking to Ukraine, they're banning the Russian?

00:19:32.000 Okay, because you said the Russian, sorry.

00:19:34.000 Yeah.

00:19:34.000 Well, this war has really disturbed me in the sense of how anti-Russia has gotten where anything Russian, even Paralympics, athletes, musicians, are being banned because they're Russian, which I think reminds me of after September 11th,

00:19:51.000 there was a lot of anti-Muslim sentiment.

00:19:54.000 Where, or even is Arab. 0.84

00:19:56.000 It's actually worse than that.

00:19:58.000 Even if you're a Sikh from India or something, you look Arab. 1.00

00:20:02.000 There's a lot of ignorance going around. 0.96

00:20:04.000 Doesn't that remind you of Germany?

00:20:06.000 When everything was being banned?

00:20:07.000 Anything German was being banned?

00:20:10.000 Well, yeah, it's similar, but, you know, you would think we...

00:20:13.000 This isn't that a...

00:20:15.000 This is 2022, 2023.

00:20:19.000 Yeah.

00:20:19.000 To ban all things Russian, to have so much hate, so much of a lopsided media.

00:20:24.000 And this is before Elon, so Twitter was just hardcore left.

00:20:28.000 All the social media were coming out now with all these different Twitter files and information and how many spooks were all over all these sites and why people are getting censored.

00:20:37.000 So I don't feel like we're getting...

00:20:40.000 The best of information.

00:20:42.000 But there's some stuff we do know.

00:20:43.000 Like, for instance, two months before the invasion, Vladimir Putin said there was not going to be an invasion.

00:20:49.000 And from a state craft or from a military standpoint, that was a good move.

00:20:52.000 But from a diplomacy standpoint, after the war, do I ever want to sign a treaty with Russia?

00:20:58.000 If they're willing to lie about an invasion like that, do you see the problem?

00:21:02.000 I'm saying some of it, they're bringing it on themselves.

00:21:04.000 George C. Marshall Strategic Studies Institute, almost half of Zelensky's cabinet is coming from that.

00:21:11.000 Seeing a lot of people around him.

00:21:13.000 Mihorko Lamoysky sends him $41 million.

00:21:17.000 There's a lot of corruption in Ukraine.

00:21:20.000 And so it's almost a mafia state, has been, since the 90s.

00:21:25.000 Russia's looking at that as these people are easily bought and paid for.

00:21:29.000 And they were afraid of having Western weapons and military troops on their border.

00:21:36.000 We can agree on that.

00:21:38.000 Because that's what happened in Finland.

00:21:40.000 Just to stay focused real quick, do you have anything to refute from what Destiny was saying?

00:21:43.000 Because you had to disagree with some of your points.

00:21:46.000 The Russian language was never banned.

00:21:49.000 That's completely not true.

00:21:51.000 Stepan Bandera is...

00:21:52.000 It's weird that we selectively bring up neo-Nazis on both sides, or on the Ukrainian side, when I think you can find neo-Nazi ties to the other side as well.

00:22:00.000 Pavel Gubarev, I can't pronounce these names, but this is the guy that called himself the...

00:22:07.000 The first leader of the Donbass People's Militia, that guy explicitly came from a neo-Nazi group.

00:22:12.000 It was founded by Alexander Barkashov, who also came from a far-right nationalist group.

00:22:16.000 The idea that neo-Nazis only exist in Ukraine, when Pew Research polling data shows that Ukraine is one of the most welcoming countries in the entire world for Jewish people, when they've had two Jewish heads of state, the only other country in the world besides Israel to do so, I don't think that finger-waving over potential neo-Nazism in Ukraine, that also just happens to align with Russia's primary propaganda vehicle,

00:22:35.000 which is that they're fighting Nazis, That's too convenient, and there's too little evidence to actually support that.

00:22:39.000 I don't think the Nazis in Ukraine are the anti-Semitic Third Reich like a lot of people paint them out to be.

00:22:48.000 They have the same symbols.

00:22:50.000 There's some swastikas and things, but...

00:22:52.000 The Bandera movement and the Nazi movement that they heroicize and build statues of these people wasn't about, it's not the same as Hitler putting people in camps.

00:23:03.000 It was more of an anti-Russian, more than anti-Jew.

00:23:07.000 Correct.

00:23:07.000 They wanted to ethnically cleanse that part of the country.

00:23:10.000 Excuse me.

00:23:10.000 Sorry.

00:23:11.000 I can't.

00:23:11.000 No, you can say it.

00:23:12.000 I don't know.

00:23:14.000 And I understand it.

00:23:15.000 I understand the Ukrainian point of view, too.

00:23:18.000 I mean, they suffered tremendously through Holdemore and then occupations by both the Soviet Union and the Nazis.

00:23:24.000 And they saw a lot of their wealth transferred to ethnic Russians.

00:23:28.000 They saw a lot of corruption during the whole Soviet era.

00:23:32.000 And so they legitimately have...

00:23:36.000 The problems with that thinking, obviously, though, is Russia also suffered under communism and Russian people also starved, just like Holdemore, from the same leadership.

00:23:48.000 You don't blame the ethnicity for what a government did.

00:23:52.000 Well, we say Russians also starved.

00:23:54.000 Things like the Holodomor caused very specific damages to, like, Ukraine and Kazakhstan.

00:23:59.000 Like, even today, when we talk about Eastern Ukraine is full of ethnic Russians and Crimea is full of ethnic Russians, that's specifically because crops were requisitioned from starving Ukrainians that were, like, defending their families from cannibals who were being shot in the back and they tried to flee their villages.

00:24:14.000 And then once, what was it, is it three to five million, I think, Ukrainians died in the Holodomor?

00:24:18.000 No, like, There might have been 11 million.

00:24:18.000 Maybe more?

00:24:21.000 Then afterwards you have, and then Kazakhstan too, not even doing that, then you're bringing in a bunch of ethnic Russians afterwards to rucify the country to use that excuse, you know, later on and say, well, there's a lot of ethnic Russians there, therefore we ought to respect that there are ethnic Russians there.

00:24:35.000 Do you guys understand what he's talking about?

00:24:37.000 Joseph Stalin like starves out a bunch.

00:24:39.000 The reason why there's so many ethnic Russians, Russian speaking, you understand Ukrainians don't speak Russian.

00:24:43.000 There's two different languages there.

00:24:44.000 Some of them speak both.

00:24:45.000 But what he's talking about before it was during Stalin, they needed to take the crops from eastern Ukraine and then use that to feed their own troops.

00:24:54.000 Yeah.

00:24:54.000 And then when those people tried to escape, then they just shot them in the back.

00:24:58.000 And then what happened was Russia started filling that area, and they both agree on this, they started filling that area with Russian-speaking people.

00:25:04.000 It's not their fault.

00:25:05.000 The people that are there now that are Russian, it's not their fault.

00:25:07.000 But just like I would say before...

00:25:08.000 A lot of Russians in Russia also starved, also had...

00:25:11.000 For sure, for sure.

00:25:12.000 We can agree. 1.00

00:25:13.000 Stalin was a piece of shit. 1.00

00:25:14.000 But my point is, when we go back, you said something before about the nuclear weapons, giving up the nuclear weapons. 1.00

00:25:14.000 How about that? 1.00

00:25:20.000 First off, it's not Ukraine's fault that they had nukes.

00:25:22.000 That was the Soviet Union who gave it to them.

00:25:23.000 And number two, when they agreed to get rid of their nukes, it was the United Kingdom, the United States, and Russia who all agreed to accept the boundaries of Ukraine.

00:25:33.000 And so...

00:25:34.000 Well, they got...

00:25:35.000 They were supposed to get...

00:25:37.000 Security promises.

00:25:38.000 If they're going to get rid of the nukes that they can't afford to maintain, then that's going to come with certain...

00:25:38.000 For sure.

00:25:43.000 By the way, let's go back to the can't afford to maintain thing, because when we get to the World War III thing, we're going to discuss that.

00:25:47.000 Okay.

00:25:48.000 Also, I think you guys should result, because that is important.

00:25:50.000 In 94, that Budapest memorandum guaranteed them, you said security assurances that we're not going to fuck with you, but could you please give your weapons essentially back And they did.

00:25:58.000 You were saying blackmail, but one more thing.

00:26:00.000 The point I'm trying to make is they didn't make the nukes.

00:26:03.000 Russia gave Ukraine the nukes during the fall.

00:26:07.000 You have the invasion of Afghanistan, then you have Chernobyl, and it becomes incredibly expensive.

00:26:13.000 Then you have perestroika.

00:26:15.000 The whole country falls apart.

00:26:16.000 They start giving off the satellite countries and they don't get back the nukes.

00:26:20.000 So Ukraine has those nukes, but they didn't abscond with them.

00:26:22.000 They didn't steal them.

00:26:23.000 So the fact that they give them up, it's not like they're not blackmailing.

00:26:26.000 Yeah, nobody's claiming they built their own nukes or something.

00:26:30.000 My point is it's not their fault.

00:26:32.000 For instance, I'll also make the argument it's not anyone's fault that Ukraine has the 20th largest oil supply in the world and that that's the reason why Russia is actually invading. 0.79

00:26:40.000 I don't think they're doing it to protect the people of Donbass.

00:26:42.000 At all.

00:26:43.000 I don't think so.

00:26:44.000 I think their country is 35% of their GDP is petroleum.

00:26:47.000 It's shrunk down to 18% of their GDP is petroleum.

00:26:50.000 Over half of their government revenue comes from taxes on petroleum, and this is severely hurting them.

00:26:56.000 So you have a country that's in between you and Germany, and that country is going to sell their own petroleum to Germany?

00:27:01.000 That's why that's Part of the reason why they evaded and the other reason why I think they evaded when they did is the 200 F-35 Lightnings that are going to be shipped to NATO countries. 0.99

00:27:01.000 Fuck that. 0.99

00:27:09.000 You're going to have countries like Finland that has air supremacy over Russia now because Russia doesn't have anything in the arsenal that can stand up to an F-35. 0.99

00:27:15.000 That's why I think Russia didn't have- The F-35A can carry nukes as well. 0.57

00:27:17.000 Well, pretty much.

00:27:18.000 A B-52 can carry nukes.

00:27:20.000 So this is kind of a misnomer.

00:27:22.000 A B-1 can carry nukes.

00:27:23.000 An F-117 can carry nukes.

00:27:25.000 A B-2 can carry nukes.

00:27:26.000 An F-16 can carry nukes.

00:27:27.000 An F-15 can carry nukes.

00:27:28.000 An F-18 can carry nukes.

00:27:29.000 The thing is, it's the A modification.

00:27:31.000 They can all carry nukes.

00:27:32.000 Nukes just means it's a bomb that has a warhead with uranium, plutonium, and tritium in it.

00:27:38.000 So, okay, just going back to make sure we hit the overarching thing.

00:27:42.000 Destiny's stance is there was no real reason for Russia to invade.

00:27:46.000 Do you agree with that or disagree with that?

00:27:48.000 He's saying whether it's moral, political, whatever.

00:27:50.000 I mean, there are reasons.

00:27:51.000 I mean, it wasn't justified.

00:27:52.000 They want to keep Ukraine in their sphere of influence.

00:27:56.000 Would you agree with that?

00:27:57.000 I agree they want Ukraine in their sphere of influence.

00:28:00.000 I think they're Their main reason, though, for...

00:28:02.000 And you don't think they were justified?

00:28:03.000 Look, the Donbass tried to secede, tried to be independent, tried to join Russia.

00:28:08.000 They got rejected.

00:28:09.000 Then they tried to be independent.

00:28:11.000 They recognized that independence.

00:28:13.000 It was like a week or so after that, there ends up the war, or the SMO, starts.

00:28:18.000 They call it Special Military Operation.

00:28:21.000 Sends in about 90,000 guys.

00:28:22.000 Not enough to take over the country and everything.

00:28:25.000 I think he was still trying to...

00:28:27.000 Negotiate with the West by not going in full steam in the beginning.

00:28:31.000 Maybe you can talk about the strategy part, but I'm anti-war. 0.93

00:28:34.000 I don't want there to be a war between Ukraine and Russia.

00:28:37.000 But I feel like the Ukraine side, the Ukraine point of view, is on TV. If you want to hear what Ukraine thinks, just turn on the news.

00:28:45.000 Yeah, but if we wanted the war to be over, we should have just let Ukraine finish recapturing the Donbass.

00:28:49.000 The war is only extended right now because of Russian troops, military training, and arms flowing into the country from the east.

00:28:56.000 Well, they're not going to let them retake or conquer the Donbass because Russia then has to deal with NATO-trained standard troops on their border.

00:29:06.000 What about Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania?

00:29:09.000 They're already there.

00:29:10.000 Finland already has NATO-trained troops on their border.

00:29:12.000 Finland is there too, yeah.

00:29:13.000 All Russia has done is expanded the amount of NATO countries on their borders now as a result of the conflict in Ukraine.

00:29:20.000 So you were saying that they'd have NATO-trained troops?

00:29:24.000 Yeah, Estonia is not Ukraine.

00:29:26.000 Ukraine is a much more powerful state, larger population, larger military presence.

00:29:30.000 And they would love to not have that situation with Estonia and Finland either.

00:29:36.000 But, you know, Putin drew a line.

00:29:38.000 He said, you're not going to expand in Ukraine.

00:29:41.000 And they have a lot of, like you guys were saying, there's a lot of resources there that are in play.

00:29:46.000 And they didn't have the Nord Stream lines yet.

00:29:49.000 Those got blown up.

00:29:50.000 But they had to transit through Ukraine.

00:29:52.000 They were going to circumvent them and go directly to Germany.

00:29:54.000 But they also knew how easily you can reverse that by blowing up the line.

00:29:59.000 But there's also the problem is that Which they said they did themselves at first.

00:30:03.000 Wait, who said they did it?

00:30:04.000 They said Ukraine said they did.

00:30:06.000 Ukraine did not take credit for those attacks.

00:30:07.000 No, Ukraine didn't say that.

00:30:08.000 Just Western media tried to act like Russia blew up its own pipeline.

00:30:13.000 Oh, got it.

00:30:14.000 So Russia didn't actually say they blew up their own pipeline?

00:30:16.000 No, the official story now is Ukraine blew up the pipeline.

00:30:19.000 There is no official story.

00:30:20.000 Yeah, I don't think there's an official story.

00:30:21.000 There's one official story that Sweden or Norway had something to do with blowing it up.

00:30:25.000 Yeah, Cy Hirsch had his, he had his, well, supposedly documented, it was in a Substack article, he thought that the U.S. blew up the line using allies.

00:30:38.000 Yeah, but Hirsch's story is total conjecture.

00:30:41.000 He provides no compelling evidence, no proof in that entire...

00:30:43.000 The U.S.'s story is, no, he didn't do it.

00:30:45.000 Ukraine did it. 0.90

00:30:46.000 The U.S. does not say Ukraine did it.

00:30:48.000 I think right now the position is, if you look at all the evidence, it looks like it was probably Ukraine.

00:30:53.000 I think that's a fair assumption to make.

00:30:55.000 I think the most credible story I've seen so far is that the Ukrainian military, without Zelensky's knowledge, might have sent forces to that area and destroyed those pipelines.

00:31:03.000 But I've also heard, I believe that Norway said they've witnessed like Russian ships, like three Russian ships that were in areas they weren't supposed to be that could have been equipped for diving operations.

00:31:11.000 So it looks like Ukraine might have done it, but there is no official story.

00:31:14.000 I don't think anybody knows right now for sure.

00:31:16.000 Back for that, Ryan.

00:31:17.000 I don't know about the Russian ships.

00:31:19.000 So there's no reason for Russia to blow up its own pipeline when they can just turn off the gas and leave the infrastructure.

00:31:25.000 Just so we're clear, there was no gas actually running through the pipeline at that point.

00:31:29.000 There was gas in the pipeline because you can't keep it in a vacuum.

00:31:31.000 Yeah, they had two lines, but it was on the verge of opening.

00:31:35.000 So just to go back to what I was saying before, one of the reasons why the Middle East became so wealthy the way that it did is because it's easier to dig for oil in sand countries.

00:31:44.000 That's also the reason why we dig for oil in West Texas and places like that. 0.98

00:31:47.000 That's why you don't dig for oil in places like Colorado.

00:31:50.000 It's harder to get through that type of environment.

00:31:52.000 Because of new technologies as far as extracting oil, there's all of a sudden all this oil that's in Ukraine that's available now that wasn't really available 30 years ago.

00:32:00.000 That's a part of this that's kind of being missed.

00:32:02.000 And a lot of it's around Crimea.

00:32:04.000 So what's happened is Ukraine was threatening also to allow Western countries to come in and get some of that oil.

00:32:10.000 It's not just the fact that Russia can't go through Ukraine with their pipelines to sell their oil.

00:32:15.000 It's that Ukraine will then sell its own oil.

00:32:18.000 Does that make sense?

00:32:19.000 You have a country, a petro state, which is basically what Russia is, 35% to 30% of their GDP came from petroleum.

00:32:27.000 And now you have a neighbor that's in between you and your number one buyer of oil, which is Germany.

00:32:31.000 And he's saying, hey, not only are we going to make it harder for you to sell your oil through our country, we're going to sell our own oil.

00:32:38.000 That, to me, was a pretense for them to invade.

00:32:41.000 To me, that was the number one pretense for them to invade.

00:32:43.000 Not because they're worried about ethnic Russians in the eastern part.

00:32:46.000 No offense to Vladimir Putin.

00:32:48.000 Well, they have a naval base in Crimea.

00:32:49.000 They can't lose either.

00:32:51.000 That was already an autonomous region.

00:32:53.000 They already had agreements to have Sevastopol, that naval base there.

00:32:56.000 Most of the people in Crimea, one of the reasons why the invasion probably worked is most people there were friendly towards the Russian navy.

00:32:56.000 There were no problems with that.

00:33:02.000 They had no problem with the ships there.

00:33:03.000 They were in and out all the time.

00:33:05.000 That port was used pretty commonly.

00:33:06.000 But it's not like that port was ever under threat.

00:33:09.000 Okay.

00:33:09.000 Are you in agreement with that?

00:33:11.000 Yeah, I was saying that's just another reason in addition.

00:33:14.000 I don't know to what degree Ukrainian oil going on in the market is worth a war.

00:33:19.000 It's going to cost a lot more.

00:33:20.000 But the problem is, so it's a bunch of things, right?

00:33:23.000 Is it worth a war if that's all you sell?

00:33:27.000 Do you see what I'm saying?

00:33:28.000 Is it worth a war if they take away Germany, which is buying 30% of its petroleum from Germany?

00:33:35.000 From Russia.

00:33:36.000 And is it worth a war if you know they can just bomb the Nord Stream pipeline?

00:33:39.000 Do you see what I'm saying?

00:33:40.000 It's like, now your security, your ability to sell petroleum is now put direly at risk.

00:33:44.000 And while the United States, we use a lot of petroleum, our economy is not 30 or even 20 percent...

00:33:50.000 Why aren't they going to sanction them from selling oil to all those places for going to war anyway? 0.61

00:33:55.000 But here's the problem.

00:33:55.000 That is exactly my next point, which is, even if they win, they lose.

00:34:01.000 That was my issue with this whole thing.

00:34:02.000 Because in the end, you had President Putin, he goes off and he lies to the entire world and says he's not going to invade.

00:34:09.000 And then he invades.

00:34:10.000 And while, again...

00:34:10.000 Great statecraft, incredible military strategy, absolutely terrible when it comes to diplomacy.

00:34:15.000 You're going to have to pay for that in the end.

00:34:16.000 When you tell the world that you have hypersonic missiles, and then you have the Ukrainians shoot down those hypersonic missiles, turns out they're not hypersonic missiles at all.

00:34:24.000 When you tell the world that you have Sukhoi 57s that are supposedly better than F-22s and F-35s, and it turns out you don't even use them in battle.

00:34:30.000 When you tell the world that you have these incredible S-14 tanks that are supposed to be able to knock out anything, and they're just getting blown up on the side of the road, Russia has lost 40%.

00:34:38.000 1,500 tanks in this war already.

00:34:41.000 That's incredible.

00:34:42.000 Just for size and ratio, the United States lost 80 M1 Abrams tanks during all of their invasion of Iraq the entire time, and 63 of them they put back in service.

00:34:53.000 What's happened with Russia is... 0.60

00:34:55.000 I don't want to get too far into this, but there's this huge design defect with the tanks where they put the shells right next to the turret, and when you hit it with a javelin, then all of a sudden it blows up the entire tank.

00:35:05.000 And you can see photographs all over the place, look it up yourself, with tanks with the turrets knocked off.

00:35:09.000 And this is another problem.

00:35:10.000 So now Russia, their second biggest export, which is military defense, Nobody wants to buy their Sukhoi 27s because they don't work.

00:35:17.000 Nobody wants to buy their tanks because they don't work.

00:35:19.000 They don't want to buy the T-52s, the T-72s, the T-90s, the T-80s.

00:35:23.000 Nobody wants to buy these tanks. 0.99

00:35:24.000 So Russia has triple fucked themselves. 0.96

00:35:26.000 They're going to have sanctions with them as far as they're selling petroleum. 0.98

00:35:29.000 They're going to have sanctions with them as far as their trade agreements.

00:35:31.000 They're going to have a bunch of companies that are like, we don't want your armament anymore.

00:35:35.000 Clearly put into use against American armament.

00:35:37.000 You guys could not stand up to them.

00:35:39.000 And then finally, do you think tanks have done well on either side?

00:35:42.000 I think tanks are going to do really well when those 31 M1 Abrams show up in Ukraine in a couple months.

00:35:46.000 I think tanks are going to do really well.

00:35:48.000 A T-72 cannot do anything to an M1 Abrams.

00:35:51.000 It cannot.

00:35:52.000 And that's going to be a serious problem for Russia.

00:35:54.000 I don't think it's a tank on tank issue, though.

00:35:56.000 It's a javelin on tank.

00:35:58.000 Landmines and helicopters.

00:36:01.000 I don't think the Leopard 24A is a bad tank.

00:36:05.000 I just think any tank that walked into...

00:36:08.000 A field of landmines that's getting targeted by drones and cornet missiles and helicopters and anti-tank personnel is going to get destroyed.

00:36:17.000 We're not having giant tank versus tank battles.

00:36:20.000 It's not World War II. We had one.

00:36:22.000 We did have one in, I forgot what the city was, but there was a massive one in the entire Russian tank brigade was lost.

00:36:30.000 They lost the tanks to Ukrainian landmines.

00:36:33.000 My point is this, like, one of the issues that Ukraine, and by the way, it was Pregorin, how you say his name?

00:36:40.000 He was the one who actually said this.

00:36:42.000 This is before the coup, the attempted coup, whatever it was.

00:36:46.000 He actually was talking about how the Ukrainian military, which by the way has been trained in large part by the United States.

00:36:52.000 I wouldn't even possibly deny that.

00:36:53.000 And by the way, Ukrainian fighter pilots right now while we're speaking are training at Shepard Air Force Base in Wichita Falls, Texas to fly those jets, those F-16 squadrons that they're about to get.

00:37:03.000 My point with that is that he actually said Ukrainians use doctrine of mechanized infantry along with tanks, along with aircraft.

00:37:11.000 They're using them together.

00:37:12.000 The Russians don't do that.

00:37:14.000 The Russians will just run a bunch of tanks into a certain place, or they'll just use artillery, or they'll just use air power, and they don't have the ability to coordinate.

00:37:21.000 That was Prigojin who said this.

00:37:22.000 And so my point is, this whole thing is like, even though you have a country that is four times bigger than the other country, This should be a first round knockout.

00:37:30.000 This should have ended in the first week.

00:37:32.000 The fact that we're at a year and five months, I think this is a really, really bad experience for Russia.

00:37:38.000 And I think I don't see any way for them out of this without Russia. 0.97

00:37:43.000 So you think Ukraine is winning the conflict?

00:37:44.000 It's like this.

00:37:45.000 If I'm the underdog and we're tied, I'm winning the conflict.

00:37:49.000 Do you understand what I'm saying?

00:37:50.000 But you think it's tied?

00:37:50.000 No, but the thing is right now, just so you know, when you have an invading force going up against a defending force throughout history, the invading force loses more people.

00:37:59.000 They just do because it's just harder.

00:38:01.000 Their supply lines are further.

00:38:03.000 Also, if you have an invading force, let's just say for every person that's fighting, you need three behind them in support.

00:38:08.000 So we're talking about medical, we're talking about logistics, we're talking about fuel, we're talking about food.

00:38:11.000 For the invading force, you need about seven or eight.

00:38:14.000 That's a really reductive way to look at it.

00:38:16.000 But you need more than twice as many people to invade as you do to defend.

00:38:20.000 Does that make sense?

00:38:21.000 Yeah, of course.

00:38:21.000 So the problem is with the attrition situation, you have one country that has...

00:38:26.000 You notice how...

00:38:28.000 Ukraine is not trying to defend the whole country.

00:38:29.000 They're trying to defend Kiev more than any other part.

00:38:32.000 And so when that happens, you have an unlimited budget.

00:38:34.000 We can all agree to that, right?

00:38:35.000 Ukraine has more money to spend than Russia.

00:38:37.000 Do you guys disagree with that?

00:38:40.000 So just for people to understand, NATO has a $1 trillion defense budget.

00:38:47.000 That's including the $800 trillion that they get from the United States.

00:38:50.000 And Russia has an $80 trillion $1 trillion versus $80 billion.

00:38:55.000 So it's about 12 or 13 times as much.

00:38:58.000 Ukraine has a blank check.

00:38:59.000 The United States is giving them javelins.

00:39:01.000 If you think this is morally wrong, I'm not here to have that argument.

00:39:05.000 My point is, if the United States is giving them top-tier anti-tank weapons, two squadrons of F-16s, and their first battalion of M1 Abrams tanks that Russia has no chance against, God forbid if they bring F-35s into this.

00:39:19.000 I just don't see how Russia can win. 0.98

00:39:21.000 That's my point.

00:39:22.000 I disagree with that, all of it.

00:39:25.000 I'm not big on the U.S.'s wonder weapons.

00:39:29.000 They thought that would be the Heimars. 0.73

00:39:30.000 They thought it would be the Javelins.

00:39:32.000 They thought it would be the Leopards.

00:39:33.000 And they're all just getting destroyed.

00:39:36.000 I think the War of Attrition, like I do agree, they're not going to run out of money because they have NATO money.

00:39:41.000 So they're not going to run out of money.

00:39:42.000 It's going to be hard to make them run out of toys.

00:39:44.000 They might run out of ammo temporarily, but they're not going to run out of stuff because NATO will keep giving them things.

00:39:50.000 They will run out of personnel.

00:39:52.000 Possibly.

00:39:53.000 But I think they have better trained personnel.

00:39:53.000 Possibly.

00:39:55.000 The nutrition war, I think they were trying to set up a porcupine.

00:39:58.000 And they thought that the sanctions were going to be, even Russia thought this too, that the sanctions were going to be way more devastating than they were.

00:40:03.000 They were pretty much ineffectual.

00:40:06.000 And they thought, if we can lead them with sanctions and force them to charge into well-fortified, bunkered, entrenched positions, it would be, you know, pure victories at best.

00:40:16.000 And Ukraine has been extremely tough, extremely resilient.

00:40:21.000 And in the beginning of the war, they did have very, you know, cracked defense.

00:40:25.000 And they kind of pussyfooted their way in with 90,000 troops.

00:40:30.000 But Russia was looking at it, holding back, because they also didn't know whether or not they could deal with the sanctions.

00:40:38.000 Without the clock on their side, because they're not in a hurry, they don't have to, they're not bleeding from sanctions, they decided to go with the meat grinder approach instead of the blitzkrieg approach.

00:40:48.000 They're going to sit back, With artillery, the very slow, methodical way.

00:40:53.000 That is what Russians are good at. 1.00

00:40:54.000 Where you can destroy them at range.

00:40:56.000 You don't lose a lot of personnel because you're hitting them from further away than they can hit you.

00:41:02.000 It's a very slow way to do it.

00:41:03.000 But they've got all the time because the sanctions are hurting NATO more than they're hurting Russia.

00:41:08.000 And Ukraine is running out of personnel.

00:41:10.000 The sanctions are hurting NATO. Yeah, because the reason why I disagree is because we've already had China denounce what's going on in Ukraine.

00:41:19.000 So that, to me, China is going to be... 0.99

00:41:21.000 Yeah, and I think Russia's done some funny things, I think, with their currency and everything, with disallowing people to sell Russian currency.

00:41:26.000 And they're doing ways to try to artificially inflate the economy they have. 0.80

00:41:30.000 But I'm pretty sure most experts agree there's been a pretty big contraction of the Russian economy.

00:41:34.000 It's been 3% a quarter for Russia's GDP over the last couple of years.

00:41:37.000 It's already a country that's pretty poor, I think, in terms of GDP per capita.

00:41:41.000 Russia is not the richest country in the world.

00:41:43.000 Russia is about as wealthy as Mexico, and a lot of people don't realize that.

00:41:46.000 Russia is right on point. 0.93

00:41:47.000 Russia has a smaller GDP than Italy.

00:41:50.000 I don't think you can judge the real economy just by GDP numbers.

00:41:55.000 But what I think is you can judge how well you can replace tanks and replace aircraft and replace anti-tank weapons with economy.

00:42:03.000 And then once your biggest secondary supplier...

00:42:05.000 They're out of 155 millimeter ammo, even like NATO's supply.

00:42:09.000 That's why they went to cluster ammunitions.

00:42:11.000 They don't have enough artillery shells to shoot.

00:42:14.000 And Russia is able to do that around the clock.

00:42:16.000 And they're not running out of supplies.

00:42:18.000 They've been preparing for this for a while.

00:42:21.000 I'm pretty sure.

00:42:21.000 Haven't we used like 2 million of the 20 million artillery shells we have in stock?

00:42:26.000 I'm pretty sure we just haven't shipped the rest yet.

00:42:27.000 And then even if we do exhaust our supply, can Russia, the country, out-manufacture the rest of the Western world when it comes to artillery shells? 0.90

00:42:35.000 Yes, they are.

00:42:36.000 I don't think they can.

00:42:36.000 And anti-air defense, too.

00:42:38.000 And like the F-16s.

00:42:40.000 Syria shot down an F-16 by very well-trained pilots from the Israelis.

00:42:45.000 For sure.

00:42:45.000 With an S-200.

00:42:46.000 Yeah.

00:42:47.000 Now you have less trained Ukrainian pilots versus well-trained Russians with S-400.

00:42:52.000 So...

00:42:52.000 S-400.

00:42:53.000 I don't think they're going to be a game changer either.

00:42:55.000 They're going to get shot down.

00:42:56.000 Yeah, so the difference with the Israeli thing is the United States is going to supply those F-16s with anti-radiation missiles that can fire at more than 60 miles. 0.97

00:43:03.000 I think the S-400 is in deep shit, and they don't have any S-400s in country.

00:43:06.000 They can't bring them in country because one of the problems is when you turn... 0.99

00:43:10.000 By the way, I don't know if you know this.

00:43:10.000 That's what happened.

00:43:11.000 A lot of those anti...

00:43:14.000 Aircraft machinery didn't work.

00:43:15.000 They never turned them on.

00:43:17.000 And that's why they weren't able to defend that part of the country because they weren't even turned on.

00:43:22.000 Because one of the things that happens is if the United States is involved or if U.S. firepower is involved, this is one thing we learned is what F-16 Wild Weasel does.

00:43:30.000 Real quick, because we've got to keep a focus because we're going into this whole tangent here.

00:43:34.000 He's basically saying that the sanctions are hurting NATO more than Russia.

00:43:36.000 And you guys are saying you think the sanctions are hurting Russia more?

00:43:39.000 I definitely think it's hurting Russia more.

00:43:39.000 Yeah, definitely.

00:43:40.000 Ryan, what's your basis for saying that you think the sanctions are hurting NATO more than Russia?

00:43:44.000 There's a cost of living going up in Europe.

00:43:47.000 They need the oil.

00:43:48.000 They need the gas.

00:43:49.000 The sanctions are hurting them.

00:43:51.000 I agree with Andrei Martignanov about GDP. There's a lot of ways to finesse that stuff.

00:43:56.000 Russia and Mexico are not on the same level of living standards.

00:44:00.000 Agreed.

00:44:00.000 I agree with that.

00:44:01.000 And then what about you guys?

00:44:03.000 What makes you think that Russia is suffering more from the sanctions than NATO is?

00:44:07.000 I mean, we're having energy issues all over the world.

00:44:09.000 I don't know if it's just the sanctions on Russia that are dealing with that.

00:44:12.000 My understanding is the cost of energy has come down pretty significantly in Europe in some ways, too.

00:44:15.000 I think natural gas is about where it was prior to the conflict, I think.

00:44:19.000 I'm pretty sure Russia can say that GDP means nothing.

00:44:23.000 Maybe to Russia it doesn't.

00:44:25.000 They didn't say nothing.

00:44:26.000 I don't think quoting GDP would be like, that's the economy.

00:44:30.000 There's a lot of other factors to judge the economy.

00:44:32.000 But it's also the wealth that the government has with which to fight a war.

00:44:36.000 Their war chest is a taxation of GDP. That's why I bring that number up.

00:44:40.000 It depends.

00:44:41.000 Like, also, I don't think, like, we have an enormous military expenditure, more than, like, the next 40 countries combined or something.

00:44:47.000 Just so you know, it's 800 for us, and then 290 for the next is China, then after that is Russia at 80.

00:44:53.000 But how cost-effective is a lot of our military gear?

00:44:57.000 Like a lot of these Lockheed Martin products.

00:44:59.000 I mean, you're talking about a half billion dollar F-22 Raptor, a Sidewinder missile.

00:45:04.000 Should it be that price tag?

00:45:07.000 It's a really great question.

00:45:09.000 And so part of the reason why we've been able to take away some of that cost is because we sold 200 F-35s to NATO. Yeah.

00:45:16.000 Yeah, I was going to say, when we say, is it worth that price?

00:45:18.000 The rest of the world seems to think so, because everybody wants to buy our F-35s.

00:45:23.000 It's a very highly in-demand plane.

00:45:25.000 So it seems to be that everybody else in the world agrees that it's an incredibly cost-effective weapons platform.

00:45:29.000 Maybe some people don't.

00:45:30.000 Maybe Russia says it's not.

00:45:31.000 But Russia, again, they also said they have hypersonic missiles, which are being intercepted by Patriot missile systems.

00:45:35.000 So apparently that's not the case.

00:45:37.000 They blew up the Patriot system in Kiev.

00:45:38.000 So here's the thing.

00:45:39.000 They might have blown up one of them when they launched, what, with the six missiles at once, I guess?

00:45:42.000 Such a great point.

00:45:44.000 Those missiles shouldn't ever be intercepted, though, by...

00:45:47.000 If it's a true hypersonic missile, which it's not, right?

00:45:49.000 So let's talk about this.

00:45:50.000 For those of you who don't understand, Patriot missile battery, it just fires anti-air.

00:45:54.000 It takes on missiles from the opposing side.

00:45:57.000 But it's ballistic.

00:45:58.000 It's kinetic.

00:45:58.000 It doesn't have a warhead in it.

00:45:59.000 It just goes through it.

00:46:00.000 In this case, what you're talking about, the Russians said they shot down...

00:46:04.000 They damaged one of the Patriot missile batteries.

00:46:06.000 I think Ukraine said they had it online that day.

00:46:08.000 Yes.

00:46:08.000 And...

00:46:09.000 And the Americans and the US, the Western media agreed that that's what happened.

00:46:13.000 That's why I actually trust what I'm hearing more from them than what I hear from Russia. 0.96

00:46:17.000 Because what I hear from Russia is that they have hypersonic missiles.

00:46:21.000 And then when they don't work, they arrest three of their missile scientists the next day for treason.

00:46:26.000 So to me, this just feels like from a military standpoint, if you want to make a moral standpoint, I can understand.

00:46:31.000 But from a military standpoint, this just feels like one cataclysmic failure after another.

00:46:35.000 Okay.

00:46:37.000 I'll even critique Mike because you kept saying it was maybe bad statesmanship to say that they weren't going to invade and then invaded.

00:46:42.000 I think the initial plan was there was never going to be an invasion.

00:46:46.000 It was going to be the special military operation into Kiev and they were going to have Belarus 2.0 and then they could have said we never invaded.

00:46:52.000 It was just a thing.

00:46:52.000 But that failed miserably so.

00:46:54.000 You believe that You believe that Putin believed that he was going to be welcomed coming into Ukraine?

00:47:01.000 I just, from what I've read, I guess you're the military analyst guy, from other military analysts, is the readiness of the Russian military was just not where anybody in Russia thought it would be. 0.70

00:47:12.000 They were undersupplied, they were understaffed, the supplies they did have weren't maintained, and that, yeah, what you had was a bunch of unaccompanied armor, uncoordinated troops that were launching horribly coordinated attacks, which they've gotten their shit together a lot better now, a war into the conflict.

00:47:25.000 So there's an FSB report that was released that showed that they didn't know there was going to be an invasion.

00:47:30.000 So that goes to your point.

00:47:32.000 I've heard the same thing that you're saying.

00:47:33.000 I predicted the invasion.

00:47:35.000 Got it right.

00:47:36.000 Even when a lot of people are like, they're not going to do that.

00:47:40.000 Yes, they are.

00:47:42.000 I've been preparing for this for a long time.

00:47:44.000 Did Trump also as well predict it too?

00:47:48.000 I don't know.

00:47:49.000 Did he?

00:47:50.000 I think we got some rants.

00:47:51.000 Chris, should we look at them now or no?

00:47:53.000 Or wait?

00:47:54.000 Okay, so what I'll do is I'll read the rants and then I think we're good here with, unless you guys have any other disagreements on, it seems like you guys agree on this Russia-Ukraine thing.

00:48:03.000 Can we do this?

00:48:04.000 Can we all three have predictions?

00:48:05.000 Actually, all five of us, can we do predictions?

00:48:07.000 Of which thing's going to happen?

00:48:08.000 Yeah, I think that, I think because in a debate like this, this is different from the other ones.

00:48:11.000 In this, there is a unique chance for us to be extremely right.

00:48:15.000 So what do you, you have a prediction, Walt?

00:48:17.000 Yeah, I do, actually.

00:48:18.000 I think, personally speaking, Russia, they would have to do by going into Ukraine.

00:48:24.000 I agree with that.

00:48:25.000 However, at the same time, what they did is they caused an issue because now NATO's going to be all on their necks.

00:48:31.000 So eventually, they either got to surrender or become part of NATO. And at that point, they're not going to surrender.

00:48:35.000 And they've been offered to join NATO before.

00:48:37.000 I think during the Yeltsin administration, they did, and they declined.

00:48:39.000 They don't want to.

00:48:40.000 So I think at this point where it's going, if they don't win, they're going to have to surrender.

00:48:45.000 What do you think, Stephen?

00:49:05.000 It seems like whether or not Ukraine can retake significant territory is going to come down to whether or not they have the personnel and they've got the supplies and they have the micromanagement.

00:49:13.000 Right now they have a really hard time macromanaging all of their different forces together.

00:49:18.000 That the Ukrainians don't have that wide-scale discipline and training yet to be able to deploy all of these different weapon systems and make them work in a unified combat sense. 0.89

00:49:28.000 Assuming that they continue to improve there, they have an unlimited purse from the West, they probably have an unlimited desire in their citizens, because I think Ukrainians want to fight to defend Ukraine probably more than Russians want to fight to do whatever they're doing in Ukraine.

00:49:40.000 So I think that, I feel like in a year from now, we'll have a pretty clear picture of what the time horizon is on Ukraine's victory.

00:49:47.000 And I think a victory for Ukraine at the least includes recapturing the Donbass.

00:49:52.000 I don't know about Crimea.

00:49:54.000 I have a hard time believing they'll get that back, but who knows?

00:49:57.000 Myron, what do you think?

00:49:58.000 What do you predict?

00:49:59.000 A year, five years?

00:50:00.000 I think Russia is going to hold what they got. 0.90

00:50:04.000 Ukraine is going to be cut in half.

00:50:06.000 Well, not half.

00:50:07.000 I mean, yeah, roughly.

00:50:09.000 It's like 15%.

00:50:10.000 The entire eastern part of Ukraine will belong to Russia.

00:50:12.000 Chris, if you could show that map so that people could have an understanding.

00:50:15.000 I think they're decisively winning the war, slowly but surely.

00:50:18.000 And I think that at this point, Ukraine isn't going to be able to regain the lost ground, you know, from the east.

00:50:25.000 Just as you guys see, that is before the war.

00:50:27.000 And then there's the initial invasion.

00:50:29.000 You see all there.

00:50:29.000 Sumi and Kharkiv have been taken by the Russians.

00:50:32.000 And then this is the counteroffensive down there in the bottom left.

00:50:34.000 So Kharkiv and Kyrgyzstan have been taken back by Ukraine.

00:50:37.000 And then this is where we are currently right there with Bakhmut being taken by the Russians.

00:50:43.000 Mariupol is like far...

00:50:45.000 A lot of people talk about the Mariupol thing.

00:50:47.000 Mariupol is far inside of Russian territory.

00:50:50.000 A Russian or, you know, Russian taken territory.

00:50:52.000 I don't think Kharkiv was taken.

00:50:54.000 It was surrounded.

00:50:55.000 Sumi was taken.

00:50:56.000 Kharkiv was never in Russia.

00:50:58.000 There was a commander in the Russian forces who put out an evacuation order.

00:51:03.000 That's all I know.

00:51:04.000 So again, we have the fog of war, but I've read a report that it was actually taken.

00:51:08.000 And then you guys give your predictions that we're going to switch over to 9-11.

00:51:11.000 What is your prediction?

00:51:13.000 I think they'll hold to Donbass.

00:51:15.000 They'll take Lehman.

00:51:16.000 They may push up to Dnepr.

00:51:18.000 They're not interested in Western Ukraine. 0.65

00:51:20.000 And Ukraine's going to run out of personnel.

00:51:22.000 I don't think the F-16 is going to be a game-changer.

00:51:26.000 I don't think Ukrainian counter-offensive or offensive has been successful at all.

00:51:31.000 They're getting...

00:51:32.000 You know, they could sharpen their discipline and be better at hybrid warfare, but Russian artillery has proven to be the king of the battlefield and Ukraine doesn't have an answer for it.

00:51:44.000 Yeah, I think Russia, I think Ukraine is going to have an answer for artillery.

00:51:48.000 I think they're going to have just as many pieces as the Russians are. 1.00

00:51:51.000 My whole issue is this.

00:51:53.000 I think the only way this ends is at some point Putin is no longer the president of Russia.

00:51:58.000 If that doesn't happen, then there's always going to be some level of conflict at this area.

00:52:02.000 If he was taken out, it would change everything.

00:52:05.000 And I think there's a high probability that they do things.

00:52:08.000 They have what's called a Russian election where they push you out of a four-floor window.

00:52:12.000 I think some...

00:52:12.000 And I'm not...

00:52:13.000 I'm not hoping death on anybody, but if he leaves the country, if he goes somewhere else, I think what happens is the cost of this war and the unpopularity of it in Russia immediately, whoever the new leader is, starts to secede certain areas of Donbass.

00:52:26.000 Crimea, you're right, that has way more to do with their hold over the Black Sea, but I also disagree with the two of you.

00:52:31.000 I 100% believe they intend on trying to take Western Ukraine. 1.00

00:52:34.000 I think that they want to have a revolution in Ukraine.

00:52:39.000 What's the other country?

00:52:39.000 Moldova.

00:52:40.000 And in order to do that, they're going to have to connect those two pieces.

00:52:43.000 So they're going to have to...

00:52:44.000 Transnistria, I mean?

00:52:46.000 Yeah, Transnistria. 0.94

00:52:47.000 Right.

00:52:47.000 Yeah.

00:52:47.000 So I think they're going to try to start something there.

00:52:50.000 And in order for them to do that, they're going to have to push further west.

00:52:53.000 And I think one of the problems is because of the way Putin gained power and because of the popularity of his annexation of Crimea, the unpopularity of this combined with any kind of loss is...

00:53:06.000 In Russia, they don't have peaceful transfers of power.

00:53:09.000 I mean, I know between Yeltsin and Putin they did, but I think he's, in a way, fighting for his life.

00:53:14.000 And so because of that, I think they can't quit.

00:53:17.000 They can't stop fighting, no matter to the point where it gets irrational.

00:53:20.000 I think they can't.

00:53:21.000 And the other problem, what I said before, is while you're saying that they have a personal problem in Ukraine...

00:53:26.000 On the Russian side, they have a materiel problem because China is no longer going to supply them with stuff.

00:53:32.000 Now, they can still get artillery shells from Iran.

00:53:34.000 I think South Africa, there's a couple other countries that can give them the artillery shells.

00:53:37.000 But the problem is, like I said before, this is going to be a serious, serious problem.

00:53:41.000 And I think the ultimate ending of this thing is going to be the end of the Putin administration.

00:53:46.000 Okay.

00:53:47.000 All right.

00:53:47.000 So I'll read these rumba rants, then we're going to transition over to 9-11.

00:53:50.000 Okay, guys?

00:53:52.000 And what do we got here, Chris?

00:53:55.000 There we go.

00:53:55.000 One second.

00:53:57.000 All right.

00:53:57.000 Okay.

00:53:58.000 So we got here.

00:54:00.000 Myron Stein goes, Massad has Chris compromised.

00:54:02.000 Get him with a big honey trap name.

00:54:04.000 Miriam.

00:54:04.000 Easy blackmail.

00:54:05.000 He couldn't resist.

00:54:06.000 Stay safe.

00:54:06.000 FNF. Got you, bro.

00:54:08.000 Various layers goes, have a great evening, gentlemen, and keep up the great work.

00:54:10.000 CEO Network.

00:54:11.000 Cool.

00:54:11.000 Shout out to you, bro.

00:54:12.000 Shout out to the CEO Network.

00:54:13.000 Abortion survivor.

00:54:14.000 Meep.

00:54:14.000 Okay.

00:54:14.000 Appreciate that.

00:54:16.000 P1 Dizzy goes, shout out to Dawson University.

00:54:19.000 Also grab a 9-11 anthrax timeline map here.

00:54:21.000 Okay.

00:54:21.000 And then we got the link below.

00:54:22.000 Go ahead and check and get one of those maps.

00:54:24.000 Make less than he out his phone.

00:54:26.000 Put his phone away.

00:54:30.000 Demetra Demma goes, Hey Fresh, I got your DM. You should send me the Columbia vlog footage for me to edit.

00:54:35.000 So by the end, you are out of YouTube jail.

00:54:37.000 You got the vlogs edited and ready to go with thumbnails.

00:54:39.000 Is that the same guy from before?

00:54:40.000 Yeah, I got it.

00:54:41.000 And then LiveInReality goes, Does anyone on this panel have tattoos?

00:54:44.000 I don't think any of you guys do.

00:54:46.000 What are your reasons for not having any? 0.52

00:54:47.000 What the hell?

00:54:48.000 You don't put bumper stickers on a Bentley. 0.87

00:54:49.000 There you go.

00:54:50.000 Oh, wait!

00:54:50.000 What does that say?

00:54:52.000 Oh...

00:54:53.000 That's pretty funny.

00:54:55.000 Okay, that's a strange...

00:54:57.000 Okay, what else here?

00:54:58.000 That was it, Chris?

00:54:59.000 Nope.

00:55:00.000 Caught up?

00:55:00.000 Okay.

00:55:01.000 Shout out to everyone that's been supporting the Tates from day one, unlike someone on the panel.

00:55:05.000 Oh yeah, we can talk about that too if you guys want.

00:55:07.000 You still think they're guilty, Destiny?

00:55:09.000 I think so, yeah.

00:55:11.000 Okay.

00:55:11.000 I disagree, but that's fine.

00:55:12.000 We can move on to 9-11.

00:55:13.000 I mean, I think we can talk about that.

00:55:15.000 I don't have a problem if we talk about that.

00:55:16.000 What's good, FNF Productions?

00:55:18.000 Mike, oorah! 1.00

00:55:18.000 I'm 3-11, Rifleman, X-Fire, Captain, Destiny. 1.00

00:55:22.000 Ryan D has been thinking about you, my G. I've been at them boys' house about every day.

00:55:27.000 They all over.

00:55:28.000 Martin Lawrence, okay?

00:55:29.000 And then Peter goes, FNF on your final 9-11 series with Ryan, and you mentioned that you will have Scott Ritter and Dawson on the same panel.

00:55:35.000 Is that still happening?

00:55:36.000 On another note, Ritter vs.

00:55:38.000 Sartain panel would be insane.

00:55:40.000 Ritter had some family obligations, guys, so yeah, we tried to make it happen, but he couldn't come.

00:55:44.000 809, Destiny didn't say, didn't you say that Ukraine was winning the war when you debated Nick last year?

00:55:50.000 Yeah, I think that they were winning last year.

00:55:52.000 I think they're still winning.

00:55:53.000 I think, was it you that said that, like, if you've got an underdog and then a not underdog, if they're even, the underdog is winning.

00:55:59.000 And against anybody, Russia would have been against Russia, you're considered the underdog for sure.

00:56:03.000 By themselves, they would be an underdog against Russia, but they have all NATO support and American money.

00:56:08.000 When the invasion happened, the thought was they would be by themselves.

00:56:11.000 That's number one.

00:56:11.000 And number two, there's multiple reports that Russia has actually lost more military personnel than Ukraine has.

00:56:17.000 No.

00:56:18.000 But I think we're forgetting that this war isn't between Russia and Ukraine, between the nations with Ukraine and Russia.

00:56:24.000 You bring up a great point.

00:56:25.000 It's too bad because we can't talk about that.

00:56:26.000 But what is Ukraine's...

00:56:28.000 What are the casualties that you're saying?

00:56:29.000 Because Ryan disagrees with you.

00:56:31.000 There's somewhere between...

00:56:32.000 So the confirmed is like 50,000 for Russia and something like 26,000 for Ukraine.

00:56:37.000 Confirmed.

00:56:38.000 Meaning like they've actually...

00:56:38.000 Yes, KIAs.

00:56:40.000 KIAs. 0.91

00:56:40.000 When it goes up, I'll show you the things. 0.91

00:56:44.000 And then the other one is...

00:56:45.000 So you're saying there's more dead Russian soldiers than Ukrainian soldiers?

00:56:48.000 Absolutely, yeah.

00:56:48.000 Only 26,000 dead.

00:56:51.000 Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

00:56:52.000 I've seen multiple things, and every single one of them that I've seen shows that there are, other than the Russian sources, it shows that there are more Ukrainians, there are more Russians dead than Ukrainians. 0.56

00:57:01.000 Like I said before...

00:57:01.000 The source I've seen was 150k dead from Ukraine.

00:57:04.000 Yeah, I haven't seen that.

00:57:05.000 I mean, I haven't seen that.

00:57:05.000 But again, my problem is this...

00:57:07.000 That's why I was supposed to say we killed 500,000 Iraqi citizens?

00:57:10.000 So here's the problem.

00:57:11.000 One more time.

00:57:12.000 In an invading force, the invading force is going to lose more people than a defending force.

00:57:17.000 So if you're saying that, what I saw, the most recent one was 100k loss for Ukraine, 150,000 loss for Russia.

00:57:23.000 But again, the fog of war, we just don't know.

00:57:25.000 My point is, it's not 26,000 Russians and 100,000 Ukrainians.

00:57:29.000 That is not accurate.

00:57:30.000 What's your figure, Ryan?

00:57:32.000 I don't think it's only 26,000.

00:57:34.000 No, no, no.

00:57:35.000 I'm sorry.

00:57:36.000 These were confirmed.

00:57:36.000 This doesn't mean...

00:57:38.000 It means they've notified the family.

00:57:40.000 I'm not saying that's all the people have done.

00:57:41.000 That's not what I'm saying.

00:57:42.000 Yeah, confirmed kills while the war is going on.

00:57:45.000 Kind of silly because it's so hard to know.

00:57:48.000 Totally agree.

00:57:49.000 Fog of what?

00:57:50.000 My point is...

00:57:51.000 Despite looking at how bad their offense has been this summer, the numbers are much higher on both sides than that.

00:57:59.000 It's very hard to know, but they did have those leaks that were showing how bad the losses were from Ukraine.

00:58:09.000 So I think they've lost over 100,000.

00:58:13.000 Yeah, I said the same too.

00:58:14.000 I believe Ukraine's lost 100,000 and Russia's 125 or 150.

00:58:18.000 If you're scrambling around to get...

00:58:20.000 But you're saying 26,000 is confirmed, but you think 100,000.

00:58:22.000 No, there's another one where there's estimations that I've seen.

00:58:25.000 Again, it's the same thing.

00:58:27.000 Confirmed means we notified the family.

00:58:29.000 I'm not talking about that.

00:58:30.000 I'm saying with the estimations due to the fog of war, the estimations that I've seen, all of them put the lost totals on Russia higher than those on Ukraine.

00:58:39.000 Interesting.

00:58:39.000 Yeah.

00:58:40.000 You can kind of get a ratio by prisoners because you can count those.

00:58:45.000 Unless you're Russian, you don't take those. 1.00

00:58:47.000 They took them in Mariupol.

00:58:49.000 Okay.

00:58:49.000 They took, yeah.

00:58:50.000 Yeah, they take them and torture them in the Donbass as well.

00:58:53.000 Then they probably wouldn't get counted.

00:58:54.000 Yeah, no, they don't.

00:58:55.000 Yeah.

00:58:56.000 Okay.

00:58:57.000 They've had prisoner exchanges.

00:58:58.000 All right, so 9-11.

00:59:00.000 I guess I'll give a quick little overview, overarching thing.

00:59:04.000 Okay.

00:59:05.000 As you guys know...

00:59:06.000 What happened then?

00:59:07.000 We covered 9-11 extensively with Ryan.

00:59:11.000 Basically, to summarize, Ryan believes there were three main entities involved.

00:59:15.000 Saudi Arabia, deep state America, and Israel.

00:59:19.000 Well, Al-Qaeda. 0.72

00:59:20.000 Of course, as well.

00:59:22.000 I'm with you on the Al-Qaeda one. 1.00

00:59:23.000 I'm not going to disagree with you on that one.

00:59:24.000 That goes without saying.

00:59:26.000 Obviously, Al-Qaeda as well.

00:59:27.000 But all the parties were involved in making this happen.

00:59:33.000 I guess I could turn it to Destiny.

00:59:35.000 I don't know if you disagree with any of those things.

00:59:36.000 I'm basically fully on board, because I watched the new Pearl Harbor, which I understand.

00:59:40.000 I don't think Dawson echoes any or very few of the claims on that.

00:59:43.000 But I think after watching that, doing research on that, I'm basically fully on board with the official story right now.

00:59:47.000 So you go with the 2004 official 9-11 commission?

00:59:52.000 Correct.

00:59:52.000 That it was only terrorists, no one else involved.

00:59:57.000 No controlled demolitions?

00:59:58.000 Absolutely not.

01:00:00.000 Okay.

01:00:00.000 Well, Ryan's not saying there were controlled demolitions either.

01:00:02.000 No, no, he's not saying that either.

01:00:03.000 So you don't think it was an inside job whatsoever?

01:00:06.000 Absolutely not.

01:00:07.000 Okay.

01:00:08.000 Well, I guess there's quite a bit of ground here.

01:00:11.000 What do you, Ryan, do you want to...

01:00:13.000 Well, I mean, do you know what my 9-11 work is?

01:00:17.000 Don't you generally claim that there were, I think the two that I've heard from you, this is third hand, so I could be wrong, is that one is that people in our intelligence services, I think the FBI and the CIA probably knew that there were terrorists training here to fly, but they either didn't report it for some reason, I don't know, and then the second one is that Israeli intelligence services knew that there was a terrorist attack coming,

01:00:36.000 and they knew it with a great deal of specificity, but they didn't say anything because they were hoping that the United States would get pulled into some Middle Eastern conflict.

01:00:41.000 You did say they tried to warn.

01:00:43.000 No, they actually did tell the United States, and they didn't act on it.

01:00:46.000 Okay, gotcha.

01:00:48.000 I've watched a ton of your stuff.

01:00:50.000 And I don't feel qualified to... 0.92

01:00:52.000 One thing I will say that I really do appreciate is, number one, all the Freedom of Information Act things that you did, all the places that you traveled, and the fact that you don't say words like Illuminati or Rothschilds or any of that shit.

01:01:02.000 You actually name names.

01:01:04.000 I do appreciate the fact that you called out all these people talking about CGI planes and all this other bullshit.

01:01:10.000 So I do appreciate that.

01:01:11.000 I'm not fully...

01:01:12.000 I'm not convinced that...

01:01:13.000 I'll give a credit, too, also for not being a flat earther and for thinking that we went to the moon.

01:01:19.000 Really?

01:01:20.000 That's such a high bar.

01:01:22.000 Are you serious?

01:01:24.000 He probably thinks that dinosaurs are real.

01:01:27.000 There's a lot of overlap between what I call the 9-11 kook movement.

01:01:32.000 The airplane deniers and the mini-nukes justification and all that stuff.

01:01:35.000 100% of flat earthers believe that.

01:01:38.000 There's a huge overlap between...

01:01:40.000 Do you think the earth is round?

01:01:42.000 Because the people that are saying it's holograms and things like that are usually the ones that are so ghastly or whatever they think The Earth is a pancake or something.

01:01:50.000 And it's unfortunate because it's a very, very serious topic because I don't isolate 9-11 just to that day.

01:01:57.000 There was an anthrax attack and they were erroneously associated to Iraq and Saddam Hussein.

01:02:04.000 They claimed that Muhammad Atta, the lead hijacker in Flight 11, had received anthrax in Prague from senior Iraqi officials.

01:02:12.000 And that just wasn't true.

01:02:14.000 And the anthrax was genetically, physically traced back to labs within the U.S., particularly Dugway and Fort Detrick.

01:02:20.000 And so they used propaganda about 9-11.

01:02:31.000 Yeah.

01:02:32.000 Yeah.

01:02:48.000 You can't talk about this topic without...

01:02:52.000 It's already a tar baby.

01:02:54.000 Because I don't use...

01:02:55.000 If someone says, are you 9-11 truther?

01:02:56.000 I'm like, no.

01:02:57.000 Because that label's been so...

01:03:00.000 Bastardized.

01:03:01.000 Yeah.

01:03:01.000 Like Alex Jones-ified.

01:03:03.000 That you're like, oh yeah, Larry Silverstein, Ted Pullett.

01:03:05.000 You've all heard the Kook stuff a million times. 0.99

01:03:09.000 And so I can't even get my foot in the door.

01:03:12.000 To start mentioning, I can lay out the evidence so you can think whatever you want, but here's the evidence for foreign state involvement with Al-Qaeda or foreknowledge.

01:03:21.000 All right, so just to stay focused here.

01:03:23.000 So Destiny, you believe in the official story from 2004 with the 9-11 Commission.

01:03:29.000 Ryan, I know you disagree with the 9-11 Commission significantly.

01:03:33.000 Even some of the people that sat on that board you said had ulterior motives to lie.

01:03:38.000 You have to realize, the 9-11 Commission wasn't the only investigation in 9-11.

01:03:44.000 The Senate did one, the JAS report, which was much more in-depth than the 9-11 Commission.

01:03:50.000 The 9-11 Commission had all this fanfare.

01:03:52.000 It was like theater almost.

01:03:55.000 Look at this.

01:03:56.000 Yeah, Lee Hamilton, who was also part of the Tower Commission for...

01:04:01.000 I ran Contra.

01:04:02.000 His partner in that was Dick Cheney.

01:04:04.000 There's a little bit, there would be room for bias there.

01:04:08.000 But the GIS report did uncover the fact that money from the Saudi state was sent through intermediaries to at least two of the hijackers, Nabi Fahazmi and Khalid al-Midhar.

01:04:20.000 And that was left...

01:04:22.000 It's redacted for a long time, 28 consecutive pages, which was now unredacted.

01:04:27.000 I don't know if that's even, like, that important.

01:04:29.000 Like, my understanding is that Saudi Arabia funds a lot of bad stuff in the Middle East, arguably.

01:04:35.000 A lot of Sunni extremisms, a lot of Sunni...

01:04:38.000 There's a name for...

01:04:40.000 Jihad? 0.94

01:04:41.000 No, no, not Jihad.

01:04:42.000 Salafist?

01:04:42.000 It might have been that one.

01:04:44.000 But the...

01:04:45.000 Fatwa?

01:04:46.000 The idea that some people that were part of the original group of hijackers might have gotten money that came eventually from Saudi Arabia, it wouldn't surprise me if 100% of every group operating in the Middle East at some point is tied back to some kind of money coming from Saudi Arabia.

01:05:04.000 That actually wouldn't surprise me.

01:05:05.000 So you're saying it might be a coincidence that I think it would be really compelling if you could show that somebody with knowledge of the attacks happening in Saudi Arabia was specifically funding them with the intent to cause it.

01:05:15.000 That would be really compelling.

01:05:16.000 And not funding other people.

01:05:17.000 I think that would also be...

01:05:18.000 It's almost like Facebook gives money to the Democrats and the Republicans, and so you're only going to remember one side.

01:05:22.000 Yeah, but wouldn't it be a little strange that it's Saudi Arabian intelligence that's doing this?

01:05:26.000 Because that's, I think...

01:05:27.000 I mean, Ryan...

01:05:27.000 Well, it's more specific than that, because...

01:05:30.000 These men...

01:05:31.000 You said it was the wife of someone who was sending the money.

01:05:33.000 Was that it?

01:05:34.000 That particular money trail I brought up.

01:05:36.000 We need to get an energy drink for Ryan, man.

01:05:38.000 I'm sorry.

01:05:39.000 I had a 22-hour flight and then like a four-hour drive down here.

01:05:43.000 So, yeah, I'll try and ganky up or whatever.

01:05:47.000 But they...

01:05:49.000 Yeah, Bandar Bush's wife sent it to Muid Nalkat, who was the wife of Omar Bayoumi, who gave it to Osama Masnan and gave it to the hijackers.

01:05:56.000 They also rented a house for them, lived with them, logistical support, financial support.

01:06:01.000 But the details is, you're right, Saudi Arabia finances terrorists all over North Africa.

01:06:05.000 That was my point.

01:06:06.000 Yeah, they do do that.

01:06:07.000 And the U.S. is aware of a lot of that, and some of them are on the look-away list.

01:06:11.000 But the specifics, these guys stayed with KSM. I think?

01:06:33.000 It was Ramzi Youssef that attacked the World Trade Center in 1993.

01:06:37.000 So the Al-Qaeda operatives meeting with the head, I mean, that's really above, that's the same level as Osama bin Laden.

01:06:43.000 They knew they were in the U.S., used the real names, fast-track program out of Jeddah, knew they were going to flight schools.

01:06:51.000 Yeah.

01:06:51.000 And the FBI was also warned, because you have to put all this stuff together.

01:06:55.000 There was an Iranian operative who spied on Afghanistan, who tells the FBI that they're already in the United States, that they're going to use airplanes, that these are the targets.

01:07:09.000 Mike Fagelli and others and translators, they squash this.

01:07:13.000 It's not shared.

01:07:13.000 The CIA doesn't share its information about the Al-Qaeda members that were meeting with KSM with the FBI. They say until August.

01:07:22.000 I would argue they never told them.

01:07:24.000 But it's not sure the FBI would have sprung into the action anyway.

01:07:27.000 And this is...

01:07:28.000 Well, that's something, if you could explain, because those are the compelling part.

01:07:30.000 Why do you think information wasn't shared?

01:07:31.000 So, I think...

01:07:33.000 To play devil's advocate, I think a lot of these three-letter agencies are very competitive with each other.

01:07:38.000 As petty as that sounds, and you, I mean, you're DHS, like, you would say, like, why wouldn't you do this?

01:07:43.000 They're going to attack America, but they want to be the one to get the guy. 0.95

01:07:46.000 But isn't that negligence instead of nefariousness?

01:07:49.000 It's negligence, then.

01:07:51.000 I mean, so what?

01:07:51.000 Well, that's a conspiracy.

01:07:53.000 That's a night and day.

01:07:55.000 There's a night and day difference between, like, my child got sick because I... Yeah, I will give you the case of why I think it's more than...

01:08:02.000 I just want to give you an example.

01:08:05.000 Can you keep up with all the names he's been naming?

01:08:07.000 You've had him on here four times.

01:08:08.000 If we ask you to recite all the names that he has told you before, could you recite them?

01:08:12.000 Not all, but I can go very slowly.

01:08:14.000 No, no, it's not about going slowly.

01:08:16.000 I want you to consider a federal agent who's underpaid and overworked, who makes $50,000 a year back then, who has a wife at home, and instead of one whiteboard with a couple of guys who went to flight school, there's 50 whiteboards.

01:08:29.000 And I have to, if you could show me that there was, this was the only intelligence that they had and they deliberately tried to not look at it, they'd be fine.

01:08:35.000 But like, there's just too many threat assessments and there's too many people.

01:08:38.000 And we're white Americans generally, right?

01:08:40.000 Like these names are not like, oh, it's Jake Tapper.

01:08:43.000 It's Dave Smith.

01:08:46.000 I don't know.

01:08:47.000 That's my only point.

01:08:48.000 Could you see negligence happening in that case?

01:08:50.000 I can.

01:08:51.000 I'm not married to this idea, but it's not just hinge on that one example I gave.

01:08:56.000 It's a holistic thing.

01:08:57.000 I was kind of agnostic on this for a long time.

01:09:01.000 It is the government. 1.00

01:09:03.000 They could fuck it up. 1.00

01:09:05.000 Absolutely could be incompetence. 0.98

01:09:06.000 Had no clue it was coming.

01:09:08.000 Should have.

01:09:08.000 Here's all these warnings.

01:09:09.000 Here's all these clear red flags.

01:09:11.000 But it is the government.

01:09:14.000 And you'd be amazed at how it's not run the way the TV shows show us with CSI and Law& Order and they're going through forensic evidence and got the DNA and, oh, I found his reflection in this picture.

01:09:25.000 Zoom in here.

01:09:26.000 It's, you know, most policing is just road pirates and they give speeding and parking tickets.

01:09:31.000 And a lot of the intelligence the U.S. lacks is Linguistics.

01:09:36.000 And they rely heavily on the Saudis and the Israelis because we don't have enough Arab speakers.

01:09:41.000 We don't have enough Farsi speakers.

01:09:43.000 And so it's very easy for foreign operatives to hide information or translators that didn't allow.

01:09:52.000 I'll give you an example.

01:09:53.000 Like there was a blueprints of high-rise buildings sent to Baluchistan by a carrier.

01:09:58.000 And when you translate stuff, there's like the verbatim and there's the summary.

01:10:05.000 Real estate in New York didn't mean anything until after 9-11.

01:10:10.000 After 9-11, you want to go back and say, shouldn't we get the verbatim of this transcript?

01:10:14.000 Because they're talking about high-rises in New York and it was sent by a courier, so you don't want any electronic intercepts and stuff.

01:10:20.000 This would be something we need to be looking at.

01:10:23.000 But They didn't want the embarrassment of that field office making that mistake.

01:10:28.000 Nobody wants to own up to any of the incompetence.

01:10:31.000 So there's a lot of room to show it could be a series of screw ups on all these different departments.

01:10:40.000 It's absolutely possible.

01:10:43.000 But Some of the other things makes me lean more towards, no, it's not just incompetence.

01:10:51.000 Incompetence is kind of the plausible deniability.

01:10:53.000 I feel like, yeah, okay, so I think that the central claim for there to be a conspiracy, because conspiracy means a plan by several people, it can't just be negligence.

01:11:03.000 There has to be something that rises to the level of conspiracy.

01:11:06.000 Now, if we want to claim that it was conspiracy...

01:11:10.000 I think?

01:11:30.000 We're talking about now some sort of plan that is roping together different departments and different members in the department to conceal certain information from other, like, at that level, the coordination required would just be unfathomable.

01:11:42.000 It would probably be the largest U.S., like, past, like, the Manhattan Project, be one of the largest U.S., like, intel projects of all time, except not against a foreign enemy, but against us domestically, which makes it even more difficult.

01:11:51.000 Not if somebody else is intercepting your wiretaps when you're trying to police Al-Qaeda and that you have an ally working against you.

01:11:58.000 Mm-hmm.

01:11:59.000 Can I, I want to find, like, just central things that maybe the two of you can debate, because here's the one question that I had, and your belief is that there was Israeli involvement either through negligence or actually aiding the terrorists in, you said you're not married to that idea, but you believe Well,

01:12:15.000 they were celebrating the attacks, and they were monitoring Al-Qaeda next door to them.

01:12:20.000 I heard the Donald Trump speech where he said there were thousands of people celebrating in New Jersey or something like that.

01:12:25.000 Well, Donald Trump doesn't know how to say anything without going to the nth degree.

01:12:29.000 Everything's the most, the best, the number one, huge, whatever.

01:12:33.000 It's huge.

01:12:34.000 It was just...

01:12:35.000 There are different reports of people celebrating, but the more damning thing is there's a group of guys...

01:12:43.000 We're good to go.

01:13:09.000 Much less two plane crashes.

01:13:10.000 Why would that be funny?

01:13:11.000 Why would you be flicking lighters and hugging?

01:13:13.000 Why are you excited that a plane just hit a building?

01:13:16.000 Chalk it up to immaturity or something.

01:13:18.000 You're going to have to start stretching.

01:13:20.000 But then, all of them, they get arrested.

01:13:23.000 All their timelines are different from each other. 0.99

01:13:25.000 They're clearly lying their asses off. 0.92

01:13:28.000 Sivan Kersberg was caught and witnessed at Doric Towers prior to 9-11. 0.97

01:13:33.000 Yeah, they all have passports to leave the country.

01:13:35.000 $5,000 in cash.

01:13:38.000 Their owner of Urban Movie Systems Fleas, Paul Kersberg, was flagged.

01:13:42.000 They left out a redaction.

01:13:43.000 They redacted the Jewish agency, but then in the footnote forgot to redact it.

01:13:48.000 You said you reversed, identified one of them that was redacted, but because his name was so long, you were able to figure out.

01:13:54.000 Oh, well, okay, so there's Paul and Sivan Kersberger brothers, and then there's Jaren Schmel and Odette Elner and Omer Mamari.

01:14:03.000 Is everybody keeping up with this, Walt, these names?

01:14:05.000 It doesn't matter.

01:14:06.000 Do you see my point?

01:14:07.000 This is kind of my point, but just keep going.

01:14:08.000 Well, I mean, names are whatever, but the key points that you bring up are very good points.

01:14:13.000 No, no, I agree.

01:14:13.000 I saw that first thing.

01:14:15.000 It was the first one that you guys did together.

01:14:16.000 They don't have the names in my FOIA request at all, but the names are all in the regular police report.

01:14:22.000 So when the Virgin Daily Record had it, the Jewish Daily Forward had it, and I got the police report, and that has all their names and description, mugshots, and so on.

01:14:31.000 And so I did a little Rosetta Stone thing.

01:14:33.000 So when saying the brothers, which has to be Paul and Sivan, so, you know, not those two, right?

01:14:41.000 And then you can start...

01:14:44.000 It's somebody that's already been mentioned.

01:14:46.000 They don't keep using the last name over and over again.

01:14:49.000 Got it.

01:14:49.000 And so through a bunch, it doesn't matter how I figured this out, but you just going through and seeing the statements and you know what they're wearing and so on.

01:14:58.000 And I know who was driving because that's in the police report.

01:15:01.000 So the driver, that's Sivan.

01:15:03.000 So you can start to Process is deduction.

01:15:07.000 No.

01:15:07.000 Which one said what?

01:15:09.000 But even if you didn't, the fact that they're all different from each other, it's weird.

01:15:14.000 Everybody knows where they were on 9-11.

01:15:16.000 It's like, oh, we were on the East Side Highway.

01:15:17.000 Oh, I didn't get to work until this time.

01:15:19.000 Oh, we didn't go there until 10 o'clock.

01:15:21.000 You're there at Doric Towers based on the Your own photographs from your own camera that was seized in the van, so they know.

01:15:27.000 Now, they did change the clock on that by 14 hours, but they were able to tell by seeing a helicopter over the Hudson River and some other things approximately 9 or 8.59 or something like that.

01:15:40.000 Let me summarize it.

01:15:41.000 Bottom line, there were a group of Israelis that had ties back to Israeli intelligence that were celebrating when the planes hit the towers.

01:15:48.000 When the FBI did an investigation and interviewed these people, there were questionable references with their timelines that didn't match up.

01:15:54.000 They all gave conflicting stories.

01:15:56.000 The CIA records check showed that I think two of them were tied back to the Jewish agency, and then they all had Israeli passports, and they were determined to be leaving the United States shortly after 9-11.

01:16:05.000 And then when they went ahead and did a search warrant at the Transfer Moving Systems, sorry, it's called Transfer Moving Systems.

01:16:10.000 No, there's Urban Moving Systems.

01:16:13.000 They did a search warrant over there.

01:16:14.000 When they executed, they found a bunch of computers that didn't necessarily coincide with a moving company.

01:16:18.000 And the person that owned it was a guy named Dominic Suter.

01:16:21.000 Dominic Suter fled the United States.

01:16:22.000 He's officially a suspect in 9-11 by our own FBI, Dominic Suter was.

01:16:27.000 That's the summarized version.

01:16:28.000 It gets worse, though, because they've got a notepad of these other moving companies.

01:16:33.000 There's six of them.

01:16:34.000 One of them is classic international movers.

01:16:37.000 The Moshe Movers, White Glove, doesn't matter.

01:16:39.000 But the Miami field office contacted the Newark office saying that...

01:16:45.000 Classic international movers had given logistical support to a 9-11 hijacker.

01:16:49.000 I believe it was Omar.

01:16:53.000 He was in the ATM photo of Muhammad Atta.

01:16:56.000 I got ready to say Omar Bayoumi because I'm tired, but it's a similar name.

01:17:00.000 Who's the guy?

01:17:01.000 Let's give Destiny a chance.

01:17:04.000 That's the summary.

01:17:05.000 Destiny, would you have anything to review that?

01:17:07.000 So then the argument is that, do you think that these guys knew about the bombings in advance?

01:17:13.000 It's not bombings.

01:17:15.000 The 9-11 attacks in advance, the plane crash.

01:17:18.000 Yes, they knew the terrorist plot in advance.

01:17:20.000 So then there's a group of five Israelis that have ties to the Mossad that knew the 9-11 attacks were going to happen.

01:17:27.000 And then these guys go out onto a roof.

01:17:29.000 Well, we don't know that it's Mossad.

01:17:32.000 Israeli intelligence, whoever they are, they're well connected.

01:17:34.000 These guys decide to go onto a roof and have a party.

01:17:39.000 Knowing everything they know in New York City after the 9-11 attacks, and then that's how we get some key insight that Israel must have been involved beforehand.

01:17:47.000 Like, I know that you present the other story that it's so wacky that this guy had $4,700 in cash, and one of these guys fled to Israel, and that is pretty wacky.

01:17:54.000 There's some wacky stuff.

01:17:55.000 But I feel like none of that is remotely as wacky as the idea that these guys all knew this was going to happen.

01:17:59.000 They were like, we should go up and throw a party on the rooftop where anybody can see us.

01:18:02.000 They weren't.

01:18:03.000 People call them rooftop Israelis.

01:18:06.000 But Doric Tower is on a ledge in New Jersey where you can see.

01:18:10.000 So they're just in the parking lot.

01:18:12.000 And it's hidden.

01:18:13.000 There's these buildings and stuff and like a swimming pool and just like a fence and a parking lot.

01:18:18.000 Have you ever been to like Hoboken, New Jersey?

01:18:20.000 Probably.

01:18:20.000 I don't know the building names.

01:18:21.000 There's some cities in New Jersey where you can clearly see the New York skyline.

01:18:24.000 Sure.

01:18:24.000 But my understanding is originally that's where they were seen.

01:18:27.000 Weren't they filming on the rooftop?

01:18:29.000 No, there's no rooftop.

01:18:31.000 So what it is is Maybe it's not a rooftop, but it was an area that could be seen by other people in the city.

01:18:37.000 It's like Donut with the Doric Tower, so only people in Doric Tower would be able to see them, and people in Doric Tower did see them. 0.93

01:18:44.000 Wouldn't that be really stupid? 0.99

01:18:45.000 Yes, it is. 1.00

01:18:47.000 Wouldn't it be crazy if the largest espionage act and maybe all of human history was exposed because those guys were doing that?

01:18:54.000 Yeah.

01:18:55.000 I mean, that's the thing.

01:18:58.000 Most people kept their composure and didn't get caught on film, and they almost got away with it.

01:19:02.000 If that woman had not called the cops, no one would have known.

01:19:06.000 The other people that saw them came forward.

01:19:09.000 Yeah, I saw the van there early.

01:19:11.000 I thought it was weird because it was parked diagonally.

01:19:13.000 It was just facing the World Trade Center.

01:19:14.000 It wasn't even parked.

01:19:15.000 And they weren't moving anyone out of the tower either.

01:19:18.000 Yeah.

01:19:19.000 Highlighted maps of Doric and the World Trade Center is also in the van.

01:19:23.000 None of the timelines match up, but they thought early in the morning everybody's looking at the towers. 0.98

01:19:29.000 But these idiots were like high-fiving and it's only three of them, not five. 0.98

01:19:34.000 The other two get picked up later. 1.00

01:19:35.000 Do you believe these were the individuals that you also said had put truck bombs at the bottom of the towers?

01:19:41.000 I couldn't find anything on that.

01:19:42.000 I couldn't put anything on that.

01:19:43.000 The evidence on that is...

01:19:45.000 Have you heard this?

01:19:46.000 The truck bombs at the bottom of the tower?

01:19:47.000 I don't think these people had anything.

01:19:48.000 I don't think these are crack Mossad or anything because of the way they screwed up.

01:19:52.000 They had a party September 10th.

01:19:52.000 It's just...

01:19:55.000 These people were in their 20s, right?

01:19:58.000 You're not going to use young people like that. 1.00

01:20:01.000 But you had...

01:20:03.000 Moving companies had been used to spy on Arab terrorists.

01:20:08.000 And art students I can explain later.

01:20:11.000 They knew what was going down.

01:20:11.000 Sure, sure.

01:20:15.000 Something big is going to happen today.

01:20:16.000 They're there.

01:20:17.000 They had planned where to park, where to view.

01:20:20.000 Foolishly enough, they gave each other high fives and flicked lighters and got back and left.

01:20:25.000 People saw them do it.

01:20:26.000 Wouldn't it be the case that, like, so in this industry, like, two people can know something, four people can know something, but ten people can't know a secret.

01:20:35.000 Because if ten people know a secret, everybody knows it.

01:20:37.000 This is true in the YouTube world and it's true in the stream world, and everybody will tell you.

01:20:39.000 If the 9-11 plot I mean,

01:20:58.000 do we have, like, the occupation of Palestine is not a secret whatsoever, and they openly bulldoze down homes and squat in someone's living room?

01:21:06.000 Is it ever on the news?

01:21:10.000 Yeah, Palestine shows up on the news all the time.

01:21:13.000 The Al-Aqsa Mosque is like, yeah, of course.

01:21:15.000 So number one, that is true.

01:21:16.000 Number two, that's different.

01:21:17.000 These are openly warring.

01:21:19.000 If you can hide an ongoing military occupation and annexation and colonization of people, because that's never explained on TV. Wait, wait, wait.

01:21:29.000 Everybody knows about settlements in the West Bank.

01:21:29.000 Who's hiding it?

01:21:31.000 No, they don't.

01:21:32.000 They ought to.

01:21:34.000 Ask around in the United States. 0.94

01:21:37.000 If they don't know it, it's because of ignorance.

01:21:40.000 Not because of lack of reporting.

01:21:42.000 Every time Israel has gone in and shot missiles into Syria, it'll be in the written news.

01:21:48.000 It's never on TV. There's never a talking head that said, yeah, they just attacked.

01:21:51.000 We're getting lost.

01:21:52.000 I'm not talking about what an average person that only browses Facebook sees.

01:21:56.000 I'm talking about how many people and how hidden is a particular thing.

01:21:59.000 Would you agree that the settlements in the West Bank aren't hidden?

01:22:02.000 That's not hidden.

01:22:04.000 You can't hide the settlements in the West Bank any better than they're hiding it. 0.94

01:22:09.000 If they go down and smash a few houses today, it's not going to be on TV. If they shoot a missile into Syria tomorrow, it's not going to be on TV. If Syria shot a missile into Israel, it would be on TV. But can we agree that the media is controlled on some level?

01:22:26.000 No.

01:22:26.000 And they don't want to show this?

01:22:27.000 Not like this, no.

01:22:28.000 But I'm saying that there's something fundamentally different between nobody knowing about the West Bank and nobody knowing about the largest conspiracy theory of all time.

01:22:35.000 No, look, you'd think, I wish I could believe that, but...

01:22:40.000 Like I said in the beginning with the anthrax, they lied and said Iraqis gave anthrax to Al-Qaeda.

01:22:47.000 They never came back later, clearly, and said, yeah, that wasn't true.

01:22:53.000 And William Sapphire's report on the chemical weapons under the palace, that wasn't true.

01:22:58.000 The yellow cake uranium from Niger, that wasn't true.

01:23:01.000 All the different lies they used about weapons of mass destruction, they never came out.

01:23:05.000 They said, oh, we didn't lie.

01:23:08.000 We just made a whole bunch of mistakes.

01:23:10.000 I think, no, you lied. 0.94

01:23:12.000 And the Nazir forgeries is a good one, because that's not something you can blame on a screw-up, because you have to have someone's signature who was no longer there, obsolete military SEALs, messed up the dates, and Gor Bonifar and Michael Ledeen come up with this crap.

01:23:25.000 But all the rhetoric about Iraq was on TV, all the propaganda was on TV, all the lies were there.

01:23:32.000 Yeah, but that's also one of the most, that's like the worst example because now everybody in the world talks about the monumental failure of the United States government manufacturing reasons to go into Iraq.

01:23:42.000 We all know about the Office of Special Plans.

01:23:44.000 We all know that we didn't find WMDs.

01:23:46.000 I wish they all knew about the OSP. No, no, no, stop.

01:23:49.000 You're dancing around that.

01:23:50.000 Not at all.

01:23:51.000 People know that there weren't WMDs in Iraq because they couldn't go there and say, look, we found them, here's the WMDs. 0.94

01:23:57.000 They don't know the history of the Office of Special Plans.

01:24:00.000 Sure, they might not know, but I can go on Wikipedia and look it up.

01:24:03.000 It's not a secret.

01:24:04.000 I can go on Google and Google it and find 52 websites that are talking about it.

01:24:07.000 You can Google about the anthrax and know that that didn't happen either.

01:24:11.000 But I can't Google about the 9-11 plan that was so wide open that even random 20-something surveillance people in the United States knew about it and then were caught because they were throwing a party that they planned in advance.

01:24:21.000 That, like, the level of coordination and the tendrils that must have been flowing to so many different people for these three to five guys to know about this plan, for them to know about it, and nobody else to have come out or said anything?

01:24:31.000 Say it to who?

01:24:33.000 To leak to have another party.

01:24:35.000 I don't know, to leak it to a friend, to tell a wife or a husband to come out and be a whistleblower, to have it revealed in some other intelligence, to have it leaked or hacked by Iran that's engaged in cyberterrorism. 0.72

01:24:44.000 Iran would have a big incentive to reveal this.

01:24:46.000 Russia would have a big incentive to reveal this.

01:24:48.000 China.

01:24:48.000 So many people would be invested in exposing this very real conspiracy that was so widespread.

01:24:53.000 Even these random 20-something-year-olds knew about it.

01:24:55.000 I just can't.

01:24:56.000 That's so hard to believe.

01:24:57.000 Yeah, it's hard to believe, but that's how it was with Iran-Contra.

01:25:01.000 That's how it was with a lot of conspiracies.

01:25:02.000 That's how it was when Israel stole uranium from the United States. 0.56

01:25:06.000 I mean, you had an ally steal nuclear material.

01:25:09.000 Hardly anybody knows that happened.

01:25:10.000 Was it really stealing?

01:25:11.000 Yes.

01:25:12.000 You're talking about Los Alamos or you're talking about in 67?

01:25:15.000 No, I'm talking about NUMAC in Apollo, Pennsylvania, where they took highly enriched uranium and sent it to Israel. 0.99

01:25:20.000 Damn. 0.99

01:25:21.000 Do you have anything else? 1.00

01:25:23.000 Israel constantly can do almost anything in the United States.

01:25:26.000 They spied on Donald Trump with stingrays.

01:25:29.000 No, no, no.

01:25:30.000 You're conflating a lot of different things, okay?

01:25:33.000 We have to look at where the incentives are and how people would act.

01:25:36.000 Israel stealing nuclear secrets from the United States is not good, but the United States is probably going to feel a lot different about that than Israel being complicit in a terror attack on U.S. citizens.

01:25:45.000 Those are two very different things.

01:25:46.000 I am talking about the coverage of it.

01:25:48.000 I mean, if anybody else has stolen nuclear material from the United States, it wouldn't stand.

01:25:54.000 That's probably true.

01:25:55.000 But again, I'm saying where the incentives lie, it's obvious that even if it's a bad thing, why the United States wouldn't attack arguably its most treasured ally in the Middle East, we can understand that without there needing to be a nefarious explanation of the U.S. side.

01:26:10.000 And we can understand why Israel would probably want to acquire nukes as well, given how...

01:26:16.000 I'm saying that for Israel to have knowledge and to be basically complicit in a terror attack on U.S. citizens for so many people in intelligence to know that and nobody has leaked or whistleblown, nobody's known about that?

01:26:27.000 That's impossible.

01:26:29.000 Well, it's not nobody.

01:26:30.000 I mean, they just classify all the information.

01:26:33.000 It was hard for me to get the information that I got.

01:26:36.000 It took almost 15 years. 0.99

01:26:38.000 Damn. 0.99

01:26:39.000 They're not forthcoming with this kind of stuff. 0.99

01:26:42.000 But we wouldn't rely on the government.

01:26:43.000 We would rely on a leaker or a whistleblower or somebody.

01:26:46.000 Because you acknowledge this would be the grandest plot in probably all of human history.

01:26:51.000 I think...

01:26:51.000 Well, we did get whistleblowers and leakers.

01:26:54.000 Like I was saying with Private Manning, that's how we learned that the CIA did know that they bet KSM. Like, they were hiding that until then. 0.50

01:27:01.000 Yeah, but we didn't get any nefarious leaks, right?

01:27:03.000 An error in intel probably occurs more than anybody, or maybe you might know about it, but probably more than any of us know there are errors in intel.

01:27:09.000 But that's not a nefarious plot.

01:27:11.000 And even at the beginning of this, you said it might be that maybe the FBI and the CIA dropped the ball and they screwed up on some things.

01:27:15.000 So your stance is you don't think Israel was involved because it would have been too much of a ridiculous task to be able to keep that a secret that they were involved in the worst terrorist attack.

01:27:24.000 It wouldn't, like, just on its face from what I know of 9-11.

01:27:27.000 If somebody were to say that there were some people in the Israeli intelligence that might have had an inkling that something was coming and they decided not to share it or whatever...

01:27:38.000 We're good to go.

01:27:50.000 And it's just like saying, well, you know, Al-Qaeda did this, 20 guys, and kept it secret.

01:27:55.000 Nobody else knew.

01:27:56.000 A lot of them did know.

01:27:57.000 There was a lot of information that showed that this plot was coming and nothing was done about it.

01:28:02.000 And after the fact, they don't want to embarrass an ally.

01:28:05.000 I mean, Israel...

01:28:07.000 Has the ability to intercept telecommunications.

01:28:10.000 They were following the hijackers around.

01:28:12.000 They claimed that they did warn the United States and nothing was done about it.

01:28:15.000 There's the O2Go Messenger, this Israeli messenger, where people were warned not to go to work in the World Trade Center before and came forward and did tell the authorities, hey, I got messages telling me not to go to the World Trade Center from this Israeli messaging app.

01:28:27.000 It's kind of like AIM back in the day.

01:28:30.000 And people did say all these things.

01:28:33.000 It didn't matter.

01:28:34.000 They wanted war of the rock.

01:28:36.000 And where did the bogus intel come out saying they met in Prague?

01:28:40.000 It came from the Israelis.

01:28:42.000 Israeli security forces said they witnessed a transfer of anthrax to Mohammed Atta from senior Iraqi officials.

01:28:47.000 They couldn't have because there was no meeting in Prague.

01:28:50.000 And then the notes said, death to America, death to Israel.

01:28:54.000 And it all gets blamed on Stephen Hatfield for a while, and then Bruce Ivins, then he We're good to go.

01:29:27.000 And says, well, they're in violation of UN Resolution 1441, stipulates a can of WMDs, and what's he do?

01:29:33.000 He holds up a vial of anthrax.

01:29:35.000 Like, the whole case came down to this bogus intel from the Israelis. 0.55

01:29:40.000 Now, we all know today that Iraq didn't have WMDs, but you know what people think?

01:29:44.000 They think, oh, they just lied about WMDs because they want to go to Iraq and get the oil.

01:29:49.000 They do not say that the Israelis lied to us about anthrax and da da da da.

01:29:54.000 Just a couple things.

01:29:55.000 First thing is the whole idea of Bradley Manning.

01:29:58.000 You call him Private Manning.

01:29:59.000 I know why.

01:30:01.000 It was Bradley Manning when the leaks were made.

01:30:04.000 I was in the military when it happened.

01:30:07.000 This is not my podcast, so I'm...

01:30:09.000 So just for those of you who don't know, Bradley Manning is now Chelsea Manning.

01:30:09.000 No, no, you understand.

01:30:12.000 It used to be private Manning.

01:30:13.000 That's the reason why the Cipronet computers in the SCIFs all over our country and our bases don't have USB ports anymore specifically.

01:30:20.000 Yeah, but just to keep things focused, do you guys have a disagreement with anything he just said?

01:30:23.000 As far as he listed a bunch of things.

01:30:25.000 The coincidences as to why there was...

01:30:28.000 Foreign involvement from Israel.

01:30:30.000 This actually is my point.

01:30:31.000 My point was it's hard to keep a secret.

01:30:33.000 Bradley Manning is proof of that.

01:30:35.000 Julian Assange is proof of that.

01:30:37.000 So that goes kind of towards his point.

01:30:39.000 It's like once you have, it becomes exponentially harder to keep the secret the more people there are.

01:30:43.000 I agree.

01:30:44.000 It is hard to keep a secret and it wasn't kept a secret and it doesn't matter.

01:30:48.000 It didn't matter about the WMDs either.

01:30:50.000 Lots of people, I was saying they don't have WMDs because if they did, they would provide evidence for it.

01:30:55.000 They never did.

01:30:56.000 Also, I think there's a big problem where, and this is always, it's really hard to keep up.

01:30:59.000 It's always been my criticism of Ryan is that there's like five or ten different things we have brought up, but all of them are kind of half true.

01:31:04.000 So that is really a messaging app that you brought up.

01:31:06.000 People weren't told not to go into the World Trade Center.

01:31:08.000 There were a couple Israeli citizens in Tel Aviv that got anonymous messages two hours before the terror attack saying a terror attack would happen somewhere.

01:31:14.000 They didn't even report that to their employer until the terrorist attack in 9-11 actually happened.

01:31:19.000 So it's not like all these Israeli people got messages on their cell phones saying, don't go to work.

01:31:22.000 So that was completely not true.

01:31:23.000 No, there were people in New York.

01:31:24.000 Now there might be others, but I think that specifically we just made is totally not true.

01:31:27.000 I don't know every single other claim they've made.

01:31:29.000 I mean, they just made up a claim and then attacked the straw man.

01:31:32.000 I'm about to talk about people in Tel Aviv and talking about people in New York.

01:31:35.000 Yeah, but you mentioned that Israeli messaging app.

01:31:37.000 The two messages that came to the Israeli messaging app, they had an anti-Semitic slur, they were in English, and they were delivered to two men in Tel Aviv.

01:31:43.000 And they didn't even report that message to their employer.

01:31:45.000 And that's a story you just looked up right now on your phone.

01:31:47.000 As opposed to a story that you just made up that has no source for it.

01:31:50.000 The fact is a fact.

01:31:51.000 I know you can be upset that I can fact check you, but it's just not true.

01:31:53.000 You said it's a lie.

01:31:54.000 It is true.

01:31:54.000 I'm not lying.

01:31:55.000 Why would I look it up if I were to look for that story?

01:31:57.000 Hold on.

01:31:58.000 Okay, so...

01:31:59.000 Sorry, Ryan.

01:32:00.000 Go ahead and rebut back to that. 1.00

01:32:01.000 I mean, I think we should just get rid of the damn phones. 1.00

01:32:04.000 It's like... 1.00

01:32:05.000 I'm fine with that.

01:32:07.000 There's gonna be...

01:32:08.000 I mean, he doesn't have a point.

01:32:09.000 He doesn't have a point.

01:32:10.000 Wait, why would you say that?

01:32:11.000 I mean...

01:32:11.000 If he wants to look anything up about Ukraine, Russia, or whatever, you feel free to.

01:32:14.000 At the end of the day, we should only be here in service of the facts.

01:32:16.000 We want to debate our egos.

01:32:17.000 I mean, like, we can...

01:32:18.000 No, I don't have...

01:32:19.000 Memorize, like, the most conspiracy theories.

01:32:20.000 But, I mean, you spent, like, 20 years working on this.

01:32:22.000 You should be, like...

01:32:23.000 Because I came here from Asia.

01:32:25.000 My phone doesn't work in the United States.

01:32:27.000 You can use mine.

01:32:28.000 You can look up something.

01:32:30.000 It just becomes a war of Googling.

01:32:34.000 Wait, why would a war of Googling matter if the facts are on your side?

01:32:37.000 Because it's not.

01:32:39.000 You could say there's a whole bunch of...

01:32:45.000 Apologists make excuses.

01:32:48.000 And I'm just going to spend the whole day going, yep, I've heard that.

01:32:52.000 No.

01:32:53.000 I know exactly what you're going to say.

01:32:54.000 Same thing with the whole Israeli-Palestine conflict.

01:32:57.000 They go, oh yeah, well, we're the only democracy.

01:32:59.000 They have all this Frank Luntz talking points and stuff.

01:33:03.000 And it's like, what I'm saying doesn't hinge on what you think it hinges on.

01:33:08.000 What it ultimately ends up hinging on is 15 loosely connected stories that when you start to look at every single one, it's like, this is probably a coincidence. 0.99

01:33:16.000 This is probably bullshit. 0.97

01:33:17.000 This is only half true. 0.99

01:33:18.000 This didn't happen at all. 0.79

01:33:20.000 It's like the 2007 crisis where you've created these CDOs out of all these bullshit investments, but somehow you think it's a really good one because you've got a lot of them together. 0.72

01:33:29.000 If we were to ask for, what is the smoking gun for the 9-11 attacks for Israel knowing about that? 0.92

01:33:34.000 What is the smoking gun evidence?

01:33:36.000 Or is it just like there were guys dancing, there was messages on an app, some guys didn't go into work?

01:33:41.000 Because this is the evidence for the largest conspiracy of all of human history.

01:33:45.000 The biggest one.

01:33:46.000 Not the biggest one.

01:33:52.000 I'm just trying to make sure that we...

01:33:58.000 So you're saying that there was a messaging app that notified people that were in New York that terrorist attacks were looming.

01:34:05.000 Destiny's disagreeing with that.

01:34:06.000 That's just extra evidence.

01:34:08.000 Like I said, the more hard-hitting things is...

01:34:12.000 Our own FBI saying that this moving company with people celebrating and they're all Israeli and it's run company and their timelines don't match up.

01:34:22.000 If they were just dancing, you could chalk that up to immaturity or something.

01:34:27.000 But when you've got five different timelines of them all lying about where they were when the attacks took place, denying that they were there, then it starts getting, ah, your story's not adding up.

01:34:36.000 Then when you find out from the FBI saying, yeah, did you know one of these moving companies actually took a hijacker from Florida to New York?

01:34:43.000 That's pretty bad.

01:34:45.000 So it keeps adding up.

01:34:47.000 Well, I guess it's probably not true.

01:34:49.000 It is true.

01:34:50.000 But if I look it up, he's going to get triggered, so I don't want to...

01:34:52.000 I showed the FOIA report on his show in Highlighter.

01:34:56.000 To summarize, FBI Miami had information that one of the hijackers utilized the moving service, the same moving service that these guys were caught working for, the dancing Israelis.

01:35:09.000 It was the same moving service.

01:35:10.000 And that alone is like, well...

01:35:13.000 And I saw the 302, the FBI report on that.

01:35:19.000 Can we try something where the two of them could kind of come together?

01:35:22.000 It was the idea that this was a preemption by Israel for us to invade Iraq.

01:35:28.000 I mean, I don't have a stake in it.

01:35:31.000 Israel's guilty of so many things, you don't have to start making stuff up.

01:35:35.000 I'm mad that they lied about Iraq.

01:35:38.000 That alone, if you think all the 9-11 stuff, whatever.

01:35:42.000 I've got to answer your question about the truck thing.

01:35:45.000 All the 9-11 stuff aside, I still think the anthrax attack is part of 9-11 because it says death to America, death to Israel, and 9-11 is on the bottom and so on.

01:35:54.000 They straight up lied about that being tied to Saddam Hussein.

01:35:59.000 We went to war with Iraq, killed probably 100,000 people or more, and Military occupation for years and longer.

01:36:07.000 It was a horrible, horrible foreign policy move, and the Bush administration was hell-bent on it and didn't seem to care.

01:36:16.000 They just wanted an excuse, like, give me some pretext to go into Iraq.

01:36:20.000 Tie it to 9-11 somehow.

01:36:22.000 Didn't really look at it.

01:36:23.000 It's not that they made it up.

01:36:24.000 But they're like, fabricate, stretch, cherry-pick, but give us a pretext.

01:36:28.000 We want to get rid of Saddam. 0.80

01:36:29.000 But could have the Bush administration wanted to do it and not necessarily had their arms twisted by Jews to make them do it? 0.99

01:36:36.000 Hey, I didn't say Jews twisted their arms.

01:36:39.000 The Bush did want to go to...

01:36:41.000 My point is, because this is what I've heard before, and I'm just kidding.

01:36:44.000 Let me go back to that.

01:36:45.000 Listen, the Office of Special Plan or the Weekly Standard for PNAC, when you go back to like Robert Kagan and William Crystal and stuff, yeah, they're all Jewish neocons. 0.83

01:36:53.000 Ding!

01:36:56.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:36:59.000 But here's my issue, right?

01:37:01.000 So at the time, we can look at 1990 and 2003.

01:37:04.000 Israel, for a lot of people who haven't seen the map, does not border Iraq.

01:37:08.000 And Israel didn't make, unless I'm wrong here, did not make Saddam Hussein invade Kuwait.

01:37:15.000 When we invade, when we evade Iraq. 0.96

01:37:17.000 Who did he shoot SCUD missiles at in the first Gulf War?

01:37:20.000 Oh, thanks.

01:37:21.000 No, he, maybe he did, but my point is.

01:37:24.000 Shot him to Israel in an attempt to bring Israel into the conflict.

01:37:27.000 Yeah, but my point is, my point is, if you want to talk about, so it goes back to the thing we're talking about with Ukraine.

01:37:31.000 They don't have, they had a huge army in Iraq in 1990, but they didn't have a deployable army.

01:37:36.000 That's why they could out-muster Kuwait and possibly at the time invade Saudi Arabia. 0.92

01:37:42.000 My whole thing was, one of the pretexts for us invading, I believed, was not necessarily for us to steal the oil, because you pointed out before we didn't steal the oil, but the idea of one megalomaniac controlling all the oil fields in Iraq and all the oil fields in Saudi Arabia,

01:37:57.000 that would cause massive destabilization.

01:38:00.000 Yeah, some on the tap, some on the tap.

01:38:00.000 It's a Chomsky argument.

01:38:02.000 But that would cause massive destabilization for the country, our country, that is more dependent on petroleum than any other country in the world in 1990.

01:38:09.000 And so my issue is, doesn't it feel like us invading Iraq benefits Saudi Arabia, who couldn't defend themselves, and Kuwait, who clearly couldn't defend themselves, as opposed to a country with M1 Bradley tanks, F-15s, F-16s, and a nuclear arsenal that doesn't even border Iraq?

01:38:25.000 Do you see what I'm saying?

01:38:26.000 That's my issue.

01:38:27.000 Saudi Arabia, absolutely.

01:38:30.000 It benefited with the war in Iraq, too.

01:38:32.000 And Saudi Arabia's fingerprints are also all over 9-11.

01:38:36.000 But I'm saying, okay, so if you want to say that, that's fine.

01:38:38.000 But what I'm saying is, maybe you're not making this argument, but the idea that the pretext for us to go to war was something, was an Israeli plot to make us go to war and that we wouldn't have gone anyway.

01:38:49.000 That's the only question I'm asking.

01:38:51.000 One of the pretexts for the legal reason for the invasion of Iraq was that they were in violation of a UN resolution.

01:38:57.000 Mm-hmm.

01:38:58.000 And one of the WMDs that they supposedly possessed was anthrax.

01:39:04.000 We gave them something.

01:39:06.000 I'm genuinely asking this question.

01:39:07.000 We gave them certain weapons, right?

01:39:10.000 When they were fighting with Iran.

01:39:11.000 Well, we gave them agricultural pesticides.

01:39:15.000 Okay.

01:39:15.000 But yes, we gave them mustard gas.

01:39:17.000 Okay.

01:39:17.000 So if we gave them mustard gas, what I'm saying is then they would have had a weapon of mass destruction that we gave them.

01:39:22.000 And I think part of the issue too was, wasn't Saddam Hussein not allowing investigators to come into the country to actually verify whether they had disabled weapons or not?

01:39:30.000 They did have WMDs prior to the first Gulf War.

01:39:33.000 So they had the stuff we gave them, but they lost that war.

01:39:38.000 And the weapons inspectors did go in and did verify that they did not have WMDs, specifically anthrax and mobile weapons labs.

01:39:48.000 We know that's not true.

01:39:50.000 And the Israelis said they witnessed this transfer anyway.

01:39:53.000 And then when the notes said death to America and Israel, just added that in there.

01:39:57.000 And it's from whoever did it, knew the location.

01:40:00.000 They made a very bad screw-up because, and I'm not going to, I don't want to steamroll this.

01:40:07.000 If you look at the timeline for the anthrax, There's notes in there that said, death to America, death to Israel, get penicillin now, whatever.

01:40:17.000 There was also hoax anthrax sent to Judith Miller, who's a W&D architect.

01:40:23.000 She said 1993 bombing was a rock.

01:40:26.000 She said Oklahoma City was a rock.

01:40:28.000 She's a rock, a rock, a rock.

01:40:29.000 She's dating Louis Leibowitz, was a lawyer for the Mossad, Chinese chief of staff, da-da-da-da. 0.99

01:40:35.000 Very tightly, tight relationship, Zionist. 1.00

01:40:40.000 She gets hoax anthrax, and the note in her anthrax was the same as the note sent in real anthrax to Tom Brokaw.

01:40:49.000 They sent two letters to him.

01:40:51.000 They also sent Patrick Leahy, who had the Leahy Amendment, which would forbid military aid to Israel, and to Daschle.

01:40:59.000 But anyway, they said, oh no, that's a copycat attack.

01:41:05.000 Whoever sent this hoax anthrax to Howard Roxler and Judith Miller, that's just, they saw the news and copied it.

01:41:12.000 The problem is that it was mailed before there was any reporting of the other letter being opened.

01:41:18.000 The other letter wasn't opened as quickly as maybe as soon because all the planes got grounded on 9-12 and then mail was hectic as hell and mixed in bags and so on.

01:41:29.000 And so they're both mailed on September 18th.

01:41:34.000 One doesn't get, they don't get opened until October, but it could not have been a copycat letter because they would not have been able to know what the contents of that mail was until after it was opened.

01:41:45.000 So why would Al-Qaeda send Judith Miller fake anthrax and send, who's once wore the rock and all that, and send real accelerated anthrax? 0.68

01:41:57.000 It had a, um, A catalyst on it.

01:42:00.000 What I'm curious is, Destiny, do you believe the anthrax part of the story that it came from Al-Qaeda?

01:42:06.000 I don't know enough about the origination of anthrax.

01:42:09.000 The government doesn't say it's from Al-Qaeda.

01:42:12.000 They said it was from Al-Qaeda in the beginning.

01:42:15.000 But then when it got genetically traced back to U.S. labs, they don't think Al-Qaeda stole it from the labs.

01:42:20.000 They blamed it on a worker named Bruce Ivins.

01:42:23.000 Okay.

01:42:24.000 He dies, Tylenol overdose or something, kills himself, they say. 0.75

01:42:29.000 Maybe.

01:42:30.000 Maybe he got Epstein, who knows.

01:42:32.000 Yep.

01:42:32.000 But After he died, post-mortem, they showed he didn't have the equipment to do the gain-of-function research on anthrax.

01:42:40.000 What's really weird is missing samples of anthrax from Fort Detrick were taken in the 90s, in December 92, January 93, somewhere in there.

01:42:53.000 That lab had a click in there of...

01:43:00.000 Zionists. 0.99

01:43:00.000 Who were attacking a co-worker named Ayat Assad from Egypt. 0.99

01:43:06.000 And ridiculous stuff. 1.00

01:43:07.000 They put a blow-up camel with a dildo in his locker and just racist stuff and stupid things. 1.00

01:43:13.000 Somebody sent a letter to the Justice Department while these antifax letters were being sent around blaming Assad again. 0.99

01:43:19.000 Going, oh, that's that guy.

01:43:20.000 That guy wasn't even working there anymore.

01:43:22.000 And they cleared him.

01:43:23.000 But he said from the details of his life and stuff in the letter, this is from this group that used to harass me.

01:43:30.000 One of the guys in that Camel Club harassment clique was named Philip Sack. 0.77

01:43:35.000 He had been fired from the lab from all his antics.

01:43:37.000 However, this is mind-blowing.

01:43:41.000 He was allowed back in.

01:43:42.000 He would go in at night.

01:43:43.000 Miriam Ripley, he's a Confederate, let him in the lab and do gain-of-function research on anthrax. 1.00

01:43:49.000 The guy who's been fired from the lab continues to come back to the lab and do this work that's now illegal.

01:43:57.000 And yet, and then there's 23 missing samples of anthrax.

01:44:02.000 And they didn't go and question him first.

01:44:05.000 Hey, you got caught on camera entering the lab when you're not supposed to.

01:44:11.000 Somebody took anthrax, probably the guy...

01:44:14.000 How did they know they were missing anthrax samples?

01:44:17.000 Because the administration changed, and I forget the person's name now, but the new head of that kind of security goes through and did an audit of the things they're doing gain-of-function research on, and they have these missing samples of anthrax.

01:44:33.000 If there was a group of people in there that were letting him in to do research, ostensibly for a future terror attack, why wouldn't they just delete the records?

01:44:42.000 Well, I don't know how many records they would have deleted or not, but they can't reproduce anthrax.

01:44:47.000 Like, if anthrax is stolen, then they'd have to go get other anthrax from somewhere else to replace it.

01:44:51.000 They did not know that the new head was coming in.

01:44:55.000 They did not know that.

01:44:56.000 It seemed like after 93, there was supposed to be a follow-up biological attack, just like 9-11.

01:45:03.000 But the 1993 troll-titter bombing was so screwed up that Van was in the wrong place. 0.51

01:45:11.000 I mean, it killed people. 0.80

01:45:11.000 It didn't do the effect. 0.80

01:45:12.000 It was awful, but it didn't knock one tower into the other, which was the plan.

01:45:17.000 But a lot of the people involved escaped.

01:45:19.000 Ramzi Yousef doesn't get caught until the following year from any attack planes in the Philippines.

01:45:26.000 His uncle is the main plotter of September 11th.

01:45:30.000 And after the American shooting, they found documents in plain Arabic, not even in code or something.

01:45:39.000 And it's like no one read them.

01:45:41.000 Everything was there, the names.

01:45:44.000 They couldn't have gotten everybody right away.

01:45:46.000 So this is why I think, again, I was like, well, maybe it could be.

01:45:49.000 Maybe they are that incompetent.

01:45:51.000 It's totally possible.

01:45:53.000 It's also possible that he already knew.

01:45:55.000 And they didn't have to look through all those.

01:45:57.000 And they screwed up.

01:45:58.000 They botched the attack.

01:46:00.000 And so they let them, or somehow they got at large.

01:46:03.000 That's when he tried to bomb a plane in Japan.

01:46:05.000 He gets caught.

01:46:06.000 But they had the bajinka plot there. 1.00

01:46:08.000 Ramzi Youssef had a plan for New Year's.

01:46:12.000 To take 16 airliners and ram them into targets all over.

01:46:17.000 And 9-11 almost had five planes.

01:46:19.000 One of them got grounded.

01:46:20.000 Flight 23 was grounded that day.

01:46:23.000 And the people somehow escaped through the police, tried again on the 13th, and 10 of them got arrested.

01:46:30.000 So there was going to be some other target.

01:46:33.000 Destiny, do you have anything for that?

01:46:34.000 Because I know you're giving the whole kind of background.

01:46:37.000 I don't know, like, the uncles of the guys that ran an anthrax lab.

01:46:41.000 I don't know.

01:46:42.000 I mean, it's really hard.

01:46:43.000 Okay, so the guy that blew up a rider truck in the World Trade Center in 1993, his name's Ramsay Youssef.

01:46:50.000 His uncle is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

01:46:52.000 Okay.

01:46:53.000 That's the partner of Osama bin Laden. 0.82

01:46:55.000 That orchestrated the 9-11 attacks.

01:46:55.000 Okay.

01:46:57.000 Do you have, just out of curiosity, do you have a problem with the invasion of Afghanistan to try to get Saddam Hussein?

01:47:02.000 I'm sorry, to try to get Osama bin Laden. 0.91

01:47:04.000 He sounded like George Bush there for a second.

01:47:07.000 I apologize.

01:47:08.000 I am from Texas.

01:47:09.000 Yes.

01:47:10.000 I don't have a problem with getting Osama bin Laden, but I question the motives if that's really all they're doing there. 0.96

01:47:16.000 There's a lot of opium and Other incentives for Afghanistan. 0.91

01:47:22.000 And when they get him, 2011?

01:47:25.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:47:26.000 It would have been, hold on.

01:47:27.000 2011, 2012.

01:47:28.000 March, April, I think April of 2011.

01:47:31.000 We stayed an awfully long time afterward.

01:47:35.000 It obviously didn't...

01:47:36.000 The coalition building didn't work out too well.

01:47:39.000 I think that's why we stayed a little...

01:47:41.000 Because nobody wanted to be the one to pull the trigger and then see the whole thing collapse.

01:47:45.000 I think that's probably why it happened.

01:47:47.000 I think Biden screwed up on the pullout, too, because he should have done it in the winter.

01:47:51.000 We didn't finish that.

01:47:52.000 So, Destiny, you think it's just coincidences that...

01:47:58.000 Maybe some people were in certain places and it's just a coincidence, but you don't think necessarily that...

01:48:02.000 I mean, I don't have the greatest history, but I think generally when you're reading about these things, I think usually the sources are better than a guy that worked at a lab that was laying in at night.

01:48:10.000 I don't know.

01:48:11.000 Usually what happens is anytime there's a loose string of people, when you start to dig in, you find that the timelines don't actually match up like they did or that the mail wasn't as grounded.

01:48:20.000 But I don't know the specifics around anthrax now.

01:48:22.000 Okay, so you disagree with the Israeli portion.

01:48:23.000 Do you disagree that Saudi Arabia was involved?

01:48:26.000 I mean, a lot of the funding sources for al-Qaeda ran back to Saudi Arabia, right?

01:48:32.000 That's my understanding.

01:48:34.000 So if there was a conspiracy that Saudi Arabia was involved, I think that immediately starts off a lot more credible. 0.97

01:48:41.000 But I mean, like, obviously you still have to build out and get some facts.

01:48:43.000 Okay, and then what about as far as, like, American government being involved?

01:48:47.000 I super don't.

01:48:48.000 It seems impossible.

01:48:49.000 So you disagree.

01:48:50.000 So you think potentially Saudis, you don't think Israel, and then you think the U.S. government not involved.

01:48:55.000 You align more with the official narrative.

01:48:56.000 Yeah, I think there's a real incentive for Israel to be involved.

01:49:00.000 Like, I'm not going to deny that. 0.99

01:49:01.000 Like, even if there isn't a shared border, fucking every country in the Middle East is shipping shit to fucking either Hamas or Ezebub that wants to see Israel destroyed. 1.00

01:49:08.000 So, like, I can understand that, like, Israel has an incentive to, you know, say, fuck Iraq. 0.99

01:49:13.000 But I think it has to be built from something. 0.97

01:49:16.000 Ryan, do you have anything for that?

01:49:17.000 I mean, he did give some examples of why.

01:49:19.000 Well, they clearly wanted war with Iraq.

01:49:22.000 I mean, if you trace back each of these lies, it's not coming from oil companies or any of that.

01:49:28.000 It's specifically coming from a bunch of Zionist neocons.

01:49:31.000 And they're going off the Oded Yanan paper, which wrote all this out.

01:49:34.000 And then later, Richard Perl and company come up with the clean break paper.

01:49:39.000 And Perl, you know, he's never...

01:49:41.000 Like, the office of special plans, he's the real...

01:49:52.000 We're good to go.

01:50:06.000 And then it gets regurgitated in the New York Times by people like Judith Miller.

01:50:10.000 It's like a triangle.

01:50:11.000 They're the ones that set up Ahmed Chalabi, the Iraqi National Congress. 0.97

01:50:14.000 So they would pretty much leak their own propaganda, get it published in the Times, and then quote the Times, which is just their own bullshit, to get over the rock. 0.88

01:50:25.000 I don't know anything about anthrax, so I can't comment. 0.92

01:50:28.000 Alright.

01:50:31.000 So, what's the conclusion here?

01:50:32.000 So, you don't agree that the government was involved?

01:50:35.000 I've never seen anything.

01:50:36.000 He's never looked at the anthrax, so he can't comment.

01:50:39.000 Well, the anthrax is the silver bullet for the 9-11 terror attacks.

01:50:42.000 I mean, you're already on huge problems there, epistemically.

01:50:44.000 But, I mean, what'll happen is I'll probably dig into the anthrax stuff tonight or tomorrow, and then I'll find out that a lot of what you're saying is half-true, or the timelines don't add up when we are.

01:50:52.000 Or maybe they will, and maybe I'll change my mind on some of the anthrax stuff.

01:50:55.000 Okay.

01:50:56.000 Yeah, I just, I think that, again, this is a huge, we're alleging a huge conspiracy.

01:51:00.000 I don't mean conspiracy in the kooky way.

01:51:01.000 I mean, in terms of like a big plot.

01:51:03.000 And to allege a conspiracy like that, I think there has to be some really compelling evidence.

01:51:06.000 It can't be like a few people were in the right place at the right time.

01:51:09.000 What about Dick Cheney not saying, don't shoot down the plane? 1.00

01:51:12.000 Yeah, all of that is bullshit. 1.00

01:51:14.000 All of that is bullshit. 1.00

01:51:14.000 That's bullshit? 1.00

01:51:15.000 Ron, you have anything for that? 1.00

01:51:15.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:51:16.000 Norman Mineta testified and others that he was in a POC bunker and did refuse to shoot down the plane.

01:51:22.000 But I think Rice and Cheney, his book said he was talking about Flight 93 in Shanksville that the passengers took down before anybody could get there anyway.

01:51:34.000 But Mineta and others clearly were saying, no, this is Flight 77 that did hit the Pentagon.

01:51:40.000 It was an airplane.

01:51:42.000 Thank you.

01:51:43.000 It's the degree of a plane in the building.

01:51:45.000 We should just do an hour on that, man.

01:51:46.000 Dude, I could.

01:51:47.000 That would be hilarious.

01:51:48.000 This is good, by the way.

01:51:51.000 I don't want to get up to pee.

01:51:53.000 Can I get another Gorilla Mine?

01:51:54.000 Can I get another Gorilla Mine?

01:51:56.000 Yeah, we can.

01:51:57.000 We don't have this.

01:51:57.000 We've got to wrap up here in a little bit, guys.

01:52:00.000 It's clear he was talking about Flight 77 because Haji Andro did two passes.

01:52:05.000 He came out at too high in altitude.

01:52:07.000 And so I had to loop around.

01:52:09.000 And everyone said it was some corkscrew maneuver, top gun.

01:52:13.000 No, it wasn't.

01:52:13.000 It's just a nice, long, miles-long loop so they could get in lower.

01:52:18.000 It's not hard to hit the first floor of a building.

01:52:20.000 It's just like landing a plane on a runway, except you don't put the wheels down and you don't slow down.

01:52:25.000 Yeah, you don't put the flaps down.

01:52:26.000 And there's a giant hole in the Pentagon.

01:52:28.000 But everybody other than Cheney is saying, no, that was Flight 77.

01:52:36.000 And maybe Cheney just Nervous because, you know, they couldn't find rummy bushes.

01:52:41.000 To my understanding, they actually did scramble a flight of F-16s that did not have munitions on there, and the intention was if they got close to a building that they were going to ram the airplane.

01:52:51.000 I'm talking about Flight 93.

01:52:53.000 That's what I understood.

01:52:54.000 Well, you know, people think that was shot down, too.

01:52:58.000 Look, the passengers took that down, and they should be heroicized.

01:53:03.000 Of course, agreed.

01:53:04.000 And they're just...

01:53:07.000 They're all over them.

01:53:28.000 According to the other hijackers, they're using a different name.

01:53:33.000 And this guy has two first cousins caught working for Israeli intelligence, one of whom, Ali al-Jara, had been spying on Hezbollah since its inception in the 80s.

01:53:43.000 And there's Yousef al-Jara as well.

01:53:45.000 So it's a weird coincidence that a 9-11 hijacker has family working for Israeli intelligence.

01:53:52.000 Can I say, wait, real quick, when you say working for Israeli intelligence, what does that mean?

01:53:55.000 He's employed by them, or he was an informant?

01:53:57.000 He was an espionage on Hezbollah.

01:54:01.000 Was he an informant, or was he an actual member of Israeli intelligence, like a formal...

01:54:07.000 He was...

01:54:08.000 Ali al-Jara was an actual agent of Israeli intelligence spying on Hezbollah.

01:54:14.000 And Yusef...

01:54:16.000 I don't know if he was an informant or whatever.

01:54:18.000 This has been 20 years.

01:54:21.000 So...

01:54:21.000 But...

01:54:22.000 That's just strange.

01:54:24.000 And it's not like he had 200 cousins or something.

01:54:26.000 I mean, this isn't 33rd degree cousin.

01:54:29.000 Alex Jones would say, this is his father's brother's kids.

01:54:34.000 I think we're probably 33rd cousins.

01:54:36.000 And he was planning a wedding.

01:54:37.000 It's odd, but they did find his passport, so he was definitely on the plane.

01:54:42.000 Can I bring up just one thing?

01:54:43.000 Because we talked about this before.

01:54:45.000 We talked about the Saudi Arabian stuff.

01:54:47.000 I think?

01:55:10.000 Okay.

01:55:15.000 Okay.

01:55:25.000 All right.

01:55:25.000 But yeah, it could have been, but that's not what happened.

01:55:28.000 I was saying there's a lot more single points of failure in that country with multiple billionaires with no oversight.

01:55:32.000 I mean, not to say that we have no oversight in this country as well.

01:55:35.000 That's why Saudi Arabia is used as a proxy to finance terrorists. 0.71

01:55:38.000 The U.S. Congress is not going to say, hey, we have a billion dollars to finance Al-Qaeda.

01:55:43.000 You can't do that.

01:55:46.000 You can launder money through BCCI. You can use Pakistani or Saudi proxies and have them.

01:55:51.000 You can set up these attack-free madrasas all over and brainwash people and do this. 0.69

01:55:57.000 And I understand Al-Qaeda's point of view.

01:56:00.000 Watching Iraqi children starve to death, bombing of Beirut and all this. 0.71

01:56:04.000 I understand why they hate the United States.

01:56:06.000 I understand why they hate the Israelis. 0.99

01:56:08.000 I get it.

01:56:09.000 You can't just blow up civilians in New York, obviously.

01:56:14.000 But I get how they get to that point.

01:56:16.000 I understand it.

01:56:16.000 But Saudi Arabia is not financing terrorists with the U.S. just has no idea that's happening.

01:56:24.000 I think?

01:56:43.000 The U.S. uses terrorism, but they do proxies.

01:56:46.000 They used to do it in Latin America, just straight up, very few intermediaries.

01:56:53.000 They've got Iran-Contra. 0.65

01:56:55.000 Oh, I mean, Iran-Contra involved Israel, too.

01:56:57.000 And they were selling contraband, but they also used profits from narcotics.

01:57:00.000 They were training pilots in Medina.

01:57:05.000 And there, again, they screwed up because people got convicted of conspiracy.

01:57:10.000 And Anthony Poindexter convicted.

01:57:12.000 Ali North got convicted and then started working for Fox News.

01:57:16.000 But George Bush Sr.

01:57:18.000 commuted a lot of their sentences.

01:57:20.000 He was just like...

01:57:21.000 Well, yeah, we had this big operation, so what?

01:57:24.000 But if you look at the Somoza dynasty that had been diverting weapons to Israel, two in a row, and then supposedly, it's very similar to Syria.

01:57:35.000 Publicly, we're against the Contras fighting the Santinistas.

01:57:39.000 Privately, it's the opposite.

01:57:41.000 They were aiding the Contras. 0.68

01:57:42.000 You had something, Dustin?

01:57:44.000 I understand, to some extent, it's probably hard for us to wag our fingers, or that's all we can do, if other people are funding groups that we don't like.

01:57:51.000 I don't even know what recourse we could take against Saudi Arabia for moving money in the way they do without...

01:58:00.000 As much as we might not like that they do it.

01:58:03.000 They want you to sanction their oil and cut off your own foot or something.

01:58:05.000 But it's worse than that because they were brought into a group called the Safari Club.

01:58:11.000 After the Yom Kippur War in 1973, they realized OPEC has this oil weapon.

01:58:16.000 It's a cartel.

01:58:17.000 Saudi Arabia has the most... 0.93

01:58:19.000 And like you were saying, the light crude, the best kind of oil to use.

01:58:25.000 Iraq was number two. 0.92

01:58:27.000 And there were huge gas lines in the 70s.

01:58:31.000 They realized, well, they can't match us economically.

01:58:33.000 They can't match us militarily.

01:58:35.000 But if this cartel produces production of oil...

01:58:40.000 A, it helped the Soviet Union, because then they get to sell more at a higher price.

01:58:44.000 And B, you know, we don't have, we were not, like now, where we only get about 12% of our oil from overseas, mostly from Canada, Mexico, and ourselves.

01:58:52.000 But not at that time.

01:58:54.000 And so, they brought the Saudis in.

01:58:56.000 And the Israeli-US nexus already existed.

01:59:00.000 They bring the Saudis into the Safari Club. 1.00

01:59:03.000 They work with Saudi intelligence.

01:59:04.000 They help create the freedom fighters in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets.

01:59:08.000 So it wasn't like, Saudi Arabia's just doing stuff and there's nothing we can do about it. 0.99

01:59:14.000 Although I agree, if they did, there's little we could do.

01:59:17.000 But they were working with them.

01:59:19.000 They consciously worked with Saudi Arabia to send diaspora fighters into Afghanistan, Al-Qaeda, the base, just meant database, to fight Soviet Union. 0.80

01:59:33.000 And that relationship didn't just disappear when the Soviet Union fell.

01:59:39.000 And so they do covert operations all over the place.

01:59:42.000 Al-Shabaab, Boko Haram, a lot of these things are financed through Saudis and Saudi proxies.

01:59:49.000 Now, a new king or a new crown prince could get in and just 180 everything.

01:59:55.000 That's how fragile Saudi Arabia is. 0.92

02:00:00.000 But, you know, when people look at this war in the Middle East as a conflict between Jews and Arabs or Judaism and Islam, it isn't.

02:00:09.000 Most of the Sunni states are with it, with the Israelis. 0.84

02:00:13.000 It's the Shia. 0.99

02:00:14.000 They want Iran. 0.99

02:00:15.000 They want Syria. 0.99

02:00:16.000 They want Lebanon. 1.00

02:00:19.000 Saddam had the Ba'athist movement, a pan-Arabism.

02:00:22.000 That was a huge threat to Israel. 0.87

02:00:24.000 And like you said, they'll claim Kuwait was angle drilling and da-da-da-da, but there's no way they can allow anybody to arise and break the hegemony that Israel currently has. 0.91

02:00:35.000 So they were working with the Saudis.

02:00:39.000 In the 80s.

02:00:40.000 They were working with the Saudis after 9-11 in Syria.

02:00:43.000 Everybody knew the GCC was financing Al-Nusr Front, which is now HDS, and Aral al-Sham.

02:00:52.000 Now, Hillary and Obama Biden would say, oh no, it's the moderate rebels, the FSA, that's all.

02:01:01.000 But the evidence on the ground just shows otherwise.

02:01:04.000 With all these brand new Toyota trucks with new paint and We're good to go.

02:01:34.000 Okay.

02:01:35.000 Let's do some Rumble Rants. 0.95

02:01:37.000 Yeah, I could read the rants and then we'll go ahead and segue into the next show because we got the guests here.

02:01:44.000 We got here...

02:01:45.000 And shout out to you guys, man.

02:01:46.000 We had over about 20,000 of y'all in here.

02:01:49.000 22, 23k around there.

02:01:50.000 Do me a favor, guys.

02:01:51.000 Follow the channel if you haven't already.

02:01:53.000 And everyone on there.

02:01:54.000 Okay.

02:01:54.000 And all their links are below.

02:01:56.000 Ryan Dawson, Destiny, and obviously Mark Sertain.

02:01:58.000 Destiny probably thinks it's Oswald acting alone.

02:02:01.000 Sartain is a mainstream regurgitator slash CIA, this info specialist.

02:02:05.000 This is like forcing the lion to debate the tiger and the donkey.

02:02:08.000 Give, send, go.com slash 9-11.

02:02:10.000 Yes, guys, go fund the project to get the 9-11 Empire Enmasked documentary.

02:02:16.000 Tell me a little bit.

02:02:18.000 Mujahar goes, Stephen has never sincerely asked a pro-Pali expert on their position.

02:02:23.000 Instead, he asked his Zionist orbiters what the pro-Pali stance is.

02:02:26.000 That's why this debate is like Goku Ryan versus Yamcha Steven.

02:02:29.000 No.

02:02:31.000 I'll talk to anybody.

02:02:32.000 I think most of the people that come on my chat tend to be pro-Palestinian because every time I talk to any of these guys that come on, I get a whole bunch of emails from my Jewish fans that get really upset.

02:02:41.000 But I don't know.

02:02:42.000 Maybe that guy feels like they're not pro-Palestinian enough.

02:02:44.000 I'm not sure.

02:02:45.000 Okay.

02:02:45.000 Hearing Destin make the argument that the CIA couldn't piece together a conspiracy because the people involved had long Arab names is the single most retarded debate moment I've ever seen in my life.

02:02:53.000 I think something that I've heard, I feel more confident of this because I've gotten so much feedback.

02:02:58.000 And I think most of us here agree with this.

02:03:00.000 I think you and you agree with this.

02:03:01.000 People have this idea that intelligence, even the name, you've got like 150 IQ guys that are speaking at least three languages that are clocking in in the morning for their like three hours of intense special ops training.

02:03:11.000 And then they go like, the reality is a lot of the guys that work in intelligence are super average people.

02:03:15.000 They're not, I'm not saying they're stupid, but it's not like these are all crack team intelligent people.

02:03:19.000 And there are a lot of intelligence failures that happen sometimes. 0.94

02:03:21.000 That's true.

02:03:21.000 And the idea that there's this massive level of coordination.

02:03:25.000 Part of the reason why the Department of Homeland Security is now the large department that took on a bunch of other, is an umbrella for a bunch of other agencies now, right?

02:03:34.000 The reason why I believe that organization was created was to foster this more interagency communication.

02:03:39.000 That the FBI, the CIA, the NSA all realized we do a really bad job at coordinating with each other.

02:03:44.000 That's like a well-known phenomenon.

02:03:46.000 And yeah, the idea that like, even people will say like, even the term, as a civilian, it sounds like, oh, the FBI knows this.

02:03:51.000 The FBI doesn't know anything.

02:03:53.000 Sometimes leadership at the FBI might know, or a certain department might know, just because one guy in the FBI knows somebody doesn't mean it's instantaneously transmitted to every other agent.

02:03:59.000 A lot of intel dies on people's desks or on the floors because it's either hard to corroborate, they can't get good information.

02:04:05.000 It's a really complicated, shitty, non-perfect process.

02:04:09.000 If you work for any military body or intelligence body in the United States, you can get daily warnings on places they think might be safe, might not be safe. 0.85

02:04:16.000 It's not like a terrorist attack is always happening.

02:04:18.000 There's just so much intel and so much information being vetted at any point in time.

02:04:22.000 Okay.

02:04:24.000 They follow Osama bin Laden and KSM pretty closely. 0.91

02:04:28.000 Yeah.

02:04:29.000 Yeah, but it sounds like it's not long to get him, right?

02:04:34.000 True.

02:04:41.000 True. 1.00

02:04:45.000 What the fuck? 1.00

02:04:46.000 That's in reference to a spoof commercial that Donald Trump handled the media and told MSN to go cry on their dick-shaped pillow. 1.00

02:04:54.000 Army officer here. 0.98

02:04:55.000 Just got back from Eastern Europe.

02:04:56.000 Sartain, you've lost all credibility.

02:04:57.000 You're wrong about a lot.

02:04:58.000 I leave it at that.

02:04:59.000 That's incredible evidence that you supported there.

02:05:02.000 You probably should leave it at that.

02:05:07.000 This is the lion entertaining the tiger and the donkey.

02:05:10.000 Interesting, man.

02:05:10.000 The chat has different opinions.

02:05:12.000 Some guys take Ryan's perspective, some guys take Destiny's perspective, Sartain's perspective.

02:05:16.000 We need Jimmy Dore and Max Blumenthal in on this discussion.

02:05:19.000 Max is an investigative journalist.

02:05:20.000 Jimmy has been right on every political issue since 2014 and is a Tucker Carlson contributor.

02:05:24.000 Okay?

02:05:24.000 And then we got that from Emmanuel.

02:05:26.000 Then Altitude goes.

02:05:26.000 Destiny is severely out of his depth here.

02:05:28.000 Actually do research before getting body next time.

02:05:30.000 Okay?

02:05:30.000 And then we got Sean F. Long.

02:05:32.000 Castle, no phone, no debate.

02:05:34.000 Lestiny?

02:05:34.000 He has a three or four of the mind.

02:05:36.000 Take away the makeup, or in this case, the phone, and it's all clammy, skinny, fat, saline, sweaty, under, tit. 1.00

02:05:41.000 What the fuck? 1.00

02:05:42.000 The hell? 1.00

02:05:42.000 Jesus. 1.00

02:05:43.000 Okay.

02:05:44.000 All right, guys.

02:05:45.000 We're going to be back with some lovely ladies here. 1.00

02:05:47.000 Chris, call it?

02:05:49.000 1030.

02:05:50.000 Cool.

02:05:50.000 We'll be back, guys, in about an hour.

02:05:52.000 We'll catch you.

02:05:53.000 Peace.

02:05:56.000 So far away I just ran I ran all night and day

Fresh & Fit - August 04, 2023

Ryan Dawson, Mike Sartain & Destiny DEBATE RUS-Ukraine, 9-11, & MORE

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